Listener Mailbag, Mixed Emotions about F1, Driving the Volvo EX90 and EX30

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Coming up on today's podcast, I'm back from Las Vegas after attending the Formula One Grand Prix

and I'll tell you all about that experience. It was quite an experience. Also, my latest headache

with the rolls and I've been driving the Volvo EX90 and EX30 and Matt, I know you want to hear

about that. Yeah, I very much care, especially about that last part because, you know,

my wife had a Volvo EXC90 for a two-year lease and she loved it so much. But for me, the, as I'm

sure I've told you a million times, the two-liter four-cylinder just wasn't cutting it. And we had

the hybrid version. So like it was the most powerful possible Volvo, but that part of it

felt so un-luxury to me that I convinced her to get a Mercedes instead. Now that has come

with its own issues, most of them incredibly expensive issues. That headlight, I remember

you mentioned that headlight. A headlight, five grand. So she has now vowed to go back to Volvo

because she loves the design. I don't disagree with her on that issue. Same. But I think that the

EX90 could solve the powertrain poverty that I experienced in the EXC90. So I'm interested.

Plus we get to hear from you, our dear listener. We dip into the hot pursuit mailbag for your

comments and answer some of your questions as well as thank you for your participation.

I've gotten so much feedback. Yes, you love it. It's really a lot of fun. And,

you know, a lot of conversation started because of this. So you can always shoot us an email at

it'shotpursuitatbloomberg.net. Hot pursuit at bloomberg.net. And typically, of course, we

write back. Sometimes I've noticed like I won't write back for a couple months.

We will though in the end. Yeah, because one guy wrote in with a couple of guest

suggestions and I took them to heart and I actually have booked the guests.

But I never like got back to him and said, dude, great idea. Thank you for the segment.

So we should consider this the response. I'm excited to say Nick Pinchuk,

the CEO of Snap-on Tools is going to join us at a later date.

And this was one of the recommendations. Yeah, it was a recommendation. You know,

I've had him on my television show. He's a very outspoken CEO. But also like what

an iconic brand, Snap-on. You know, if you're watching a race or if you're watching a movie

about a race or if you're watching, you know, a movie about a mechanic or if you're in an auto

shop like Snap-on, it's everywhere, right? I mean, yes, I admit I was not intimately

familiar with the Snap-on universe. But I know the name and I sort of vaguely knew, oh,

yeah, that's that. Okay, yeah, I get it. But I'm not, I don't know the detail. So I'm

actually really curious and excited to talk to him.

All right, so I will, you know, that's coming up to me. Snap-on represents the pinnacle of tooling.

And I, you know, especially having a lot of old Ducati's spend a lot of time in the shop.

And those guys swear by these tools. Plus, I watch a lot of movies about races and you always see

the logo everywhere. But I could never find any to buy because they don't,

they're not for sale at, you know, like your local hardware store. It's like a B to B. It's

really for professionals. So professional grade. Exactly. So occasionally I'll see the Snap-on

delivery truck, you know, throughout the years, I'll see it here and there. Like if I'm on a

road trip or if I'm, you know, driving somewhere and I always will pull over and try and find the

driver. Why? Because you just want to bro out with him? Yeah, no, because if you find the

truck and the guy has time, he will sell you tools. Directly, no way. Yeah. So sometimes I'll see it

and like I have a couple hundred bucks in my pocket and I'll pull over and I'll buy like a

screwdriver, you know, because they're expensive. So this leads me to ask, how much cash do you

typically carry at any given time to spend on tools? Well, it's not for that. Well, it sounds

like you're casually just dropping a couple hundos on a tool. No, like I have to, I carry,

you know, cash. I don't know why I carry. I don't usually need it. So it's kind of a thing. Some

people are very into carrying cash and some people are like... I want to always have it. I want to,

ever since my college days, one of my older fraternity brothers was like, I always keep a

hidden hundre. Yeah. And so I always do the same thing, like with a couple hundred bucks. I'll

keep, you know, two or three C-notes folded up in a secret place in my wallet. And that

way whenever I run into a snap-on, dude. There you go. I have the money. Make my day.

All right. What else? Should we get straight into the mailbag? Yeah. We've had some really good

emails lately. One of them is from my brother-in-law. I don't know if you saw that.

Let me pull it up. You want to say what the hello from Matt's brother-in-law.

Yeah. I mean, you can go ahead and read it. The thing is, I know that he listens

every week and I love the guy. He's a genius. He has an amazing business and he has even better taste.

But I'd never really like bring him up on the podcast and he's like, dude, why aren't you calling

me out? You know what? And are we going to say his name? Luis. We're going to say...

Okay. So we're saying it. Well, Luis, thank you for really a very kind and thoughtful email.

I love how you say that you really like the contrast between us, that Hannah is more refined

and euro-oriented. Well, Matt shows his brutal love for American muscle and pickup trucks.

I have to admit that I'm right in the middle. That makes me so happy to hear because that's

authentically who we are. True. And who he is. And we can all get along. Yeah. We can all

get along. You know, Luis is from Spain, but he's an architect working in LA. And I think

it's great that he has a pickup truck. That was the first vehicle that he bought here because he's

wanted to, I think, integrate better with American culture, plus he's a surfer, so he's always carrying

the board around. And then, but since he has this like elite level of taste. Yes. Well, he's

European. Yes. And he, I know he's, he got advice from you and Magnus and he picked up this

amazing 9-11 SC. It's a 1982 SC. Black-on-tan. Yeah. And it's so cool to watch his business grow and

to watch him collect these things. But one of the, one of the other things that he talks about in

his email and that we got more emails about is the Audi RS6 that I drove last week. I

can't stop thinking about it either in both the good. So the good for me is that it can haul

so much and it's so quick. And I think the design is beautiful. I wish more people,

and I think you said this would drive station wagons than SUVs. Yeah. Get out of the arms race.

On the other hand, it's, Audi has always had this tagline. What is it? I think it's

Dursprung, Dursh, no, Forsprung Dursh Technique, which is like advancement through technological,

you know, methods. I got the technique park. Forsprung Dursh Technique. Yeah. And the thing

is that's always been scary to me because this stuff breaks and it just, again, it costs a

lot of money to fix. And they have had issues. Okay. So I really can't comment on that because

I haven't, haven't ever owned an Audi. So I don't, I don't know if that's,

you know, it's not, I have to take your word for it, I guess. Well, or we got,

we got an email. Yes. From John. I was just looking at that. So when you go ahead and

tell us what John has to say. John, John says that he really agrees with you, Matt. We were

talking last week about the MMI, the sort of infotainment system. Correct. Inside the

Audi. And I was saying that I really didn't like the fact that you have to push pretty

hard on the screen for it to register. You can't just sort of brush it. Anyway,

Matt loved it. And John agrees with Matt. He is a five Audi owner. And that is one thing that

I really realized. People who love outies buy outies and keep buying outies. They really

stay in the family. So that really is quite a testament. But he had an issue. Yes. With

his first Q8 and this guy has gone through a couple of them. Exactly. The engine had,

I guess, some kind of scroll problem, which blows up the whole block. But he managed to

through, I think, a lot of blood, sweat, and tears get it returned in some way, shape, or form.

Not that the overall company took it back, but the dealership. Right. And then he bought

a new one, which is like, if I have a problem where my engine blows up and I've only done

like sick figures, especially since they cost six figures, I think I would be a little bit shy to

buy another one. Yeah, I know. But again, Audi does really engender some loyalty for the people who

really love them. Also, I have to say, did you look at this photo that John sent us?

Yes. It's a picture of he and his younger brother in about 1976. And it's the cutest,

most Norman Rockwell style photo of two little boys in front of a 73 Mercedes-Benz SL. I can't

tell which SL, but maybe. Love it. Anyway, I love it. Thank you for sending that. By the way,

I love it when people send pictures, obviously, of their cars. Yeah. And like our buddy Don,

who's helping me along in the air-cooled 911 search, has also sent pictures of his Porsche as in the

past. And he writes in this week to say, I should get an SC or the Carrera 3.2. He thinks that's

the sweet spot. And I don't disagree. So between like 1976 and 1988, I think is about the time

period where they built the SC and they were also treating the carossary so it won't rust from 1976 on.

And then the Carrera 3.2, everyone knows it's famous because people care a lot about getting the G50

transmission. I don't think it's that much better than the 915 if you work in the 915. But

I've been hearing that a lot, although I heard something different from Magnus. He likes

everything pre 1974. Well, and I think Don would agree with that, because Don, in your note, you

actually say the newer cars may be quote unquote better, but they're also heavier, more complex.

And really, that is true. There's something very elegant about the simplicity of the earlier cars,

both in how they drive, but then also in maintaining them. I mean, the whole thing

about Porsche parts being interchangeable is really the foundation of what a lot of people,

at least in California and elsewhere, that's what got them into actually working on their own

Porsches, because on the earlier cars, it's all the same components. You can go to a swap mead

or a flea market and buy what you need and put it in yourself. It's easy. You can work

on it. And that's part of the joy. So I do see the appeal of the earlier cars.

100% I see that appeal. My main concern is that I won't be able to fit in the older cars,

although I should say my brother-in-law is, I think, exactly my height. So if he fits,

also if Magnus Walker fits, I should fit as well. I had been toying with the idea of

just going back to a 991, which is what I had before. And I think it's interesting that

you guys love your turbo so much, because I've been reading so much about the different

generations 991.1 and 991.2, where they go from the naturally aspirated basically 3.8-liter

Inline-6-2, a turbocharged 3-liter, and apparently, well, I know this also from experience,

the turbocharged version is a totally different drive. You're not chasing the revs higher,

trying to constantly make it scream. As many people say, you don't have to rev the nuts off it

to get any type of performance. And that is really true. The thing about the earlier turbos, too,

is they're not great cars in the canyons, because you have to keep the revs so high,

and there's such long shifting cars. They're not as fun to drive, they're harder to drive,

they're hard to get. You really have to rev the nuts off to get power where you need it,

and also counter-intuitively, you have to downshift a lot of the time to go faster.

So it does take some know-how, and they're just not naturally as suited. They're great for wider,

longer, straight roads. So you mean the 930 that you guys have is not as good in the canyons?

Correct. But the newish turbo that you have? Oh, you're talking about modern cars, sorry.

I heard turbo, and I'm thinking 930. No, no. So you guys got that 991 turbo, right?

That's a .1. Okay, but it's a turbo car. Yes, yes. It's the Turbo S,

the king of the hill at that point in time. And you've now put 200,000 miles on it.

I think it's at 206, actually. Yeah. But all this to say, we should do that 911

Buyer's Guide, because I think people want it. They definitely, well, it's certainly the

ones who write to us do. We got a message from a dude named Dale, and it just says,

in the subject line, use PCAR podcast, and then the message is, please do this, period, thanks, period.

I love it. Get right to the point. Reveni. You know what? I also find the shorter the email,

the more powerful the person, because they get right to the point. They don't have a lot of

time. So Dale might actually be pretty high up the totem pole. That's right. All right.

So we will do that. And again, we thank you for writing in. We will continue to read,

digest, and respond to your emails. And when we come back, we'll hear about Hannah's Rolls-Royce

problems, by the way, speaking of classic cars that have issues. Plus, I'm going to get her advice

on the Volvo issue. Introducing the all new Adobe Acrobat Studio, now with AI-powered PDF

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Studio. Learn more at adobe.com slash do that with Acrobat. Welcome back to Hot Pursuit from

Bloomberg Radio. I'm Matt Miller, here with Hannah Elliott. And Hannah, you continue to have problems

with your Rolls-Royce, with one of your Rolls-Royces. First of all, is it the same one that?

Well, this is a continuation, yes, of the same one, which is a 75 silver shadow

long wheelbase. It's the first one that I ever got. And it's the one that I actually drive the most,

unless I have a press car. And it seems like it's a lot of problems, but it's actually just

the same problem that has continually been misdiagnosed by the person working on it.

Charlie? No. Oh, that's the problem. So this is the problem. And so apologies if

everyone is tired of hearing about the dysfunctional relationship with these cars. But I actually think

it's important to talk about because I think they look very glamorous and fun. And, you know,

the truth of it too that everybody who owns these knows is they do take some time

and consideration. And this has been a particularly annoying instance where

it's the same problem. The car was dying like on the highway with no warning,

and you could restart it and it'd start again and drive a little bit more than it would die.

So we thought it was probably something with a fuel injection issue, a fuel pump issue.

And because Charlie, Charlie Agapoo, who's sort of the known mechanic, I've used him for years,

we love him. He's a known mechanic in LA. He is really backed up. So instead of letting our car

sit at Charlie's garage for a month or two, we want to be driving it, we went to somebody else

who is in the valley who has an earring and he might be Irish. And, you know,

I don't know, I can't decide if I'm going to name him or call him out or whatever. But we

went to this other guy, I think, you know, I don't think he's crooked. But he delivered the car

back twice, quote unquote, fixed, but the same problem kept reoccurring. And it's the inconveniences

because he's in the valley, he's not close and you got to drive out there and you got to

take two cars unless you want to put the car on a flatbed. It's a lot of logistical things

that take a lot of time. Yeah, it's not even the expense. It's the time and inconvenience

really. So this has been, I think it was probably two months ago that the car first went in,

then it takes him a while to, you know, find his way around or whatever, whatever.

He delivers it back to our place. Well, no, the first time he had his shop guy start to

drive it to our place and the car broke down on the way with the same problem that he

had claimed he had fixed. So back to the shop it goes. Then the second time he drops it

to our place and I go to drive it the next day and the same problem happens again.

It turns out this was not, and meanwhile we had paid for a new fuel pump and a few other things.

Turns out this was not a fuel pump issue. It was a simple

issue in the fuse box where there were some crossed wires, literally,

and they had not addressed it was a fuse box issue. Anyway, the third time now that he

came to deliver the car, he drops it off at night. His shop guy drops it off and I go

out there and the whole car looks like a Jackson Pollock of white paint on the front,

on the hood, on the hood of the car. And they had parked it out in front of our house

and they hid the key and they let, they just left it like that. And I am not precious about my

cars, but that was the final straw. And I was, I couldn't believe that this person who

delivered it wouldn't have enough personal pride and dignity to let anybody know this happened.

They just thought, I mean, literally it was-

But was it actual paint?

It was some sort of white spackle. It was, obviously-

Were you able to get it off the-

Well, we called the guy and he had to send this guy and do some sort of like deep polish

buff and they did get it off. But it was all over the hood and it just, it was kind of unbelievable

to me that somebody would, and he claimed what happened is quote unquote, the paint came off

the back of a truck that he was following when he was dropping the car. So it just literally got

white. It probably was stucco. I think it was like, it looked like white paint. It was

probably stucco. Some sort of construction material that literally was sprayed all over the front and

sides of the car. I mean, I was sputtering.

Well, I have so many questions, Hannah.

Please, please.

So first of all, I want to point out that we don't have a problem with guys who wear earrings,

you know.

If you're a grown man, I mean it's maybe questionable, but if you're a grown man and

a Rolls-Royce mechanic, then I have to, is this a dedicated Rolls-Royce shop?

It is. So okay, that's weird. Then from on your side, I've never been to your house,

but I imagine with you and your husband that you have like a giant car park filled with

Corvettes, Rolls-Royces and Porsches. Like why not leave your Rolls-Royce at Charlie's

for three months? Because you don't have a shortage of vehicles from which to choose.

I know. I know, but you tend to have favorites, don't you?

You do.

This was my favorite. And you cannot explain the emotional connection. There's no rhyme or

reason. It's just the one I like and I wanted it. It's a fair point. And yeah, I learned

my lesson. I will wait for Charlie.

I also wonder, because I always look at these classic or decades old cars and

think, God, I'd love to have that, but because I'm such a coward in so many different parts

of my life.

Maybe you're wise. Maybe you're not a fool.

I'm always afraid. And I always think about you and this old Rolls-Royce,

because you've had it for like 10 years.

Five years. Well, five years. I actually counted. Only five.

Oh.

But you've not had any seriously expensive problems with it, right?

No.

You've never had to take it to Charlie and he's like, that'll be 15 grand.

No, no. This whole thing, which was a two-month rigmarole, and for sure the most I've ever spent,

was five grand.

Well.

And that included buying a fuel pump that wasn't needed.

And now we have a new one.

What you tell me about your experience with these cars is what makes me lean into maybe

getting over my fears and buying one myself.

But then, I mean, this story isn't that bad, because you've-

No, it's not. It's not really that bad.

You've made some bad choices in order to end up here, right?

Yes. I take full response. I've learned my lesson.

Obviously, it could have been, this is very obviously first world problem.

What really bothered me was the mentality of a person who would disrespect-

Oh, I get it.

A Rolls Royce and have no personal pride enough to just make a call, even try to cover it up.

Why not try to- even the effort to try to cover it up.

And I'm like, I'm the little old lady who has one car that she drives to church on Sunday,

and this is the car. And I just felt like, how is this possible?

I totally get-

This is the problem.

In 2016, I moved to Berlin.

And I had my 9-11 shipped over there. And then from the docks, I had it delivered

to the Porsche dealership in Berlin. And over there, the company owns the dealerships.

It's not like here with the franchise model.

And they had to make some changes to make it road legal in Germany.

And they listed all these changes that they needed to make,

said it was going to cost 10,000 euros, and then left the car outside in a parking lot,

just completely covered in crap. And I realized that they actually didn't need to make

all of those changes. And I couldn't believe that they left it so dirty.

And I actually was so angry, I wrote a letter to the board.

No way.

And the board confirmed my suspicion that you don't need to make $10,000 worth of changes.

It's more like a few hundred dollars worth of things.

And that they should also clean the car.

There's something to that.

Making a little noise sometimes helps.

Yes. There is something to that. And I am not a fastidious person.

I am truly, if you saw my house, it's almost Grey Garden sometimes over there.

But I am not uptight about that sort of thing.

But you're right. It's when you're paying for a service and they're already,

they've already messed up, the least they can do is make sure the car is clean.

Exactly. No, they got to clean the car before the liberal.

Yeah. It just, and this was like beyond cleaning.

This was, I mean, I was glad that we were able to fix the situation.

But so did you get your money back?

Yeah. No, I mean, they did me right.

Good.

Until I left.

Squeaky wheel.

Germany. Then I had to sell that because, you know, when I moved there in 2016,

it was like a little over $4,000 to ship the car, which was why I figured that's no

brainer. I'll bring the Porsche back to its home where it belongs, you know, and drive it

right. When I moved back to the U.S. in 2021, it was like $20,000 to ship it back.

So I thought, I'm going to just sell it instead. So I took it to the same place.

And partly because of me being so disorganized, they made me a low ball offer that I took.

Really, I kind of regret it. But I used that chunk of that change to buy my house.

I just sent you this car that I've been looking at and bring a trailer. And I'm always looking at

these older Ferraris and scared that, you know, they go for fairly affordable prices, sometimes,

you know, less than $100,000 for cars that look so clean and beautiful. And I figured the reason

that they go for so little, the same is true of like a Bentley Continental, right, is that

the buyer is going to inevitably have to put tens of thousands of dollars into it.

I think of your Rolls-Royce, and it kind of assures me that maybe I won't have to,

but I saw this 1985, it's a European spec Ferrari 308 GTS.

So pretty.

To me, when you say Ferrari, this is what I think of because I grew up watching Magnum PI

and I desperately want one of these cars ever since I drove that 355,

which is admittedly a newer version. I've heard that whale, I used the gated shifter,

and I want one myself, but this guy has what looks like the cleanest 308 you've ever seen,

and he says in the comments that he hasn't changed the timing belts in 13 years.

13 years.

I see that.

It's insane because you're supposed to, Ferrari said you should change them every three years,

and then people are like, every five years is fine. Maybe if it's a newer belt,

they last longer, I guess, so you can get away with six or seven, but-

Those are going to need some attention.

Yeah, and then I have this fear that it's going to cost $10,000,

but apparently you don't have to take the engine out of this thing,

and some brave souls just order a belt and do it themselves in the garage.

Wow. That's what they just watch, a YouTube video?

Yeah, I'll post this, by the way, I'll post a picture of this on my Instagram,

so you can see how beautiful. It's so pretty.

There's a couple of days left in the auction, so you can tell me if I should bid or not.

And this has no recorded accidents, 39,000 miles shown.

It's a, I mean, I'm sure it's not going to be a fast car, right? It's less than three-liter

V8. Since it's a car from 1985, it has, I think, 230 horsepower, it says in the ad somewhere.

Nice.

But you know what? It's-

It's so cool. It doesn't matter.

It's so light. It's so cool. And the point of it is, you know, when,

I think you made a comment last week about the Porsche Cayenne EV,

Barry Ritholtz was like, oh, it's over a thousand horsepower, and Porsche-

Who cares?

Porsche has been posting on Instagram that it goes zero to 60 in whatever,

two and a half seconds. But you made a point that a microwave is going to cook your food faster.

And yet-

And yet, here we are out in the backyard.

Exactly. Grilling.

Grilling it up. So I don't care about the speed. I just want to have the sound and

the vibes and the experience of getting there.

Totally.

On the other hand, I don't want a basket case, right? And the other problem with this,

for me, this is where the height comes into it. I'm six-three. I think

Tom Selleck was six-four. So a little bit taller than me. But apparently, Magnum PI was filmed for eight

great seasons. What an amazing show. And Ferrari, initially Magnum or Tom Selleck, sorry,

wanted a Porsche 928. And Porsche refused to give them a car for the filming.

Why?

I don't know. Porsche was, as Doug Demiro says, Porsche was like a hobby shop.

That wasn't a real business at the time. It was just a group of guys that liked to make cars in

Germany. So I guess they didn't see the business opportunity. Ferrari, on the other hand, was like,

yes, will give you a new car every season. So every season they gave them a new 308.

That way it was updated. And maybe, I don't know how late the show went. Maybe it went to a

328 eventually. But the one thing that they had to do to customize the car was they had to

shave the foam off the seat and then put in new rails to move the seat even further back than it was.

Oh, interesting.

Because, and also anytime they filmed Tom Selleck and the car, they had to take off the

target top because still his head didn't fit under the roof line.

Well, that is a real consideration. And what got me, my first classic car that I owned,

was at SL Mercedes. And the reason, the true reason why I never kept that car for very long was because

it was too short for me. And I think it had some seats that weren't original and they were too,

they were overstuffed. But I could, I could never get comfortable in it because my head was

touching the roof. So it's a valid concern because that just completely colors your whole

experience with the car. If you're not comfortable in that seat, even if you can

technically fit into it, it just, I get it.

All right. That covers the classic cars. We're going to talk about the new stuff when we come back.

Well, the new new is Hannah's trip to Las Vegas. She went to see the Formula One race. We'll hear

all about the dramas surrounding that in Sin City and the Volvo EX90 and EX30s that she's

driving. I'm Matt Miller with Hannah Elliot. You're listening to Hot Pursuit.

I'm Matt Miller with Hannah Elliot. You're listening to Hot Pursuit and I never thought we would do one

segment where we would mention Volvo and Formula One in the same sentence. Yeah. Kind of a funny

pairing. I mean, I feel like, I remember when Hakon Samuelson, who was the CEO and now I think

is the CEO again globally, they brought him back. At one point, he said they never need to make

their cars go over 180 kilometers an hour. Oh, interesting. Because they felt like

their clientele wasn't, that's not why you buy a Volvo, which is fair. That's interesting.

Which is fair. Sure. Although it just kind of bummed me out because on the Autobahn,

where you would see many Volvos. Yes. A lot of places, you want to be able to do 200.

I also think some of the wagon bro contingent could really get into going quick in a Volvo wagon.

Right. And now that you have the EV versions, they do go very fast, much like the Cayenne EV.

You know, they have the instant torque like every EV and they probably can do 0 to 60 in less than

an old Carrera. I have to say, you may be disappointed again.

All right. So let's hear about the EX90 because the design is gorgeous, right?

I love it. I think if you have to get a big SUV, especially if it's an electric SUV,

you could do far worse than the Volvo EX90 if we're going to talk about that one first.

I don't know how I feel about the wheels. The one I drove, they're very blade-like.

They're, of course, optimized for aerodynamic efficiency.

Let me know what you think, Matt, when you pull it up. I will say to your point,

now the EX90 comes in a twin motor and a twin motor performance. They both cost over $80,000,

which is a little bit expensive, and they both weigh about 6,000 pounds. So a lot of the power

that we get from the electric battery is eaten up by the weight. And Volvo is saying on their website

that 0 to 60 is 5.7 seconds, which isn't ideal. It's not lightning quick, but it's still

it's faster than that Ferrari 308 0 to 60. Yeah, but I think we both know which one we'd want to

rather be seen in. But all that to say, if you're going to get a big electric SUV,

I think the Volvo EX90 is a really strong performer. You should certainly consider it.

I actually love the interior, which is very, it's very minimal. There is a big screen in

the center, but they really keep it to one screen and the rest is very light and airy. And I will be

posting pictures of these on my Instagram account. It's Hannah Elliot XO. So you can see, for instance,

the wheels and the interiors. The wheels are like pinwheels, you know, do you like that? Or no,

not at all. I'm not necessarily a fan. Yeah, I did ask on Instagram,

like if people liked them and a lot of people do like them. So I understand there is an

appeal. But I also thought on a, on a different note, the interior of the EX90 was really beautiful too.

They, they are not using leather now. They're using all natural textures and renewable materials.

And the interior seats of this car are like a really beautiful, it looks like cashmere. It's

not, it's a gray, it's a very nice, I like the sculpted look of the seats. Me too. When I

hear that it's not, that they're not using leather, I always go back to your comment on luxury

where you point out that they have to be real materials. Now, okay, if it's cashmere or if it's,

you know, any kind of wool or cotton, that's a real material. And they do, I'm sure, use real

wood. I mean, it looks like they could use teakwood and evolve though. Yes. And I know,

I need to check on this, but in previous vehicles, they've also used like cork before,

which is interesting. And also, there are some companies, I think Volvo's done this too,

where they use like recycled paper products. In the EX30, that's the smaller electric SUV

that I also drove, they did an interior with recycled denim that I also thought looked

very cool. And the EX30, if we're going to pivot to that for just a second,

it actually starts at 38 grand, a little over 38 grand. It's like 38, 350, something in there,

which I can't believe it's that inexpensive a price for an EV SUV. It's a small, small,

but I thought that was really fair. Well, I mean, it depends, right? How much of it is

made in China would be my first question to the CEO. Does that matter? I mean,

it doesn't matter. Like I don't care about the region, but you know, a lot of Americans will

have a problem with that. I should say it doesn't matter to me. Okay. But a lot of people will have

real problems with that. And I think the EX30, I should say, sorry to interrupt. The EX30 is

made in Belgium. The EX90 is made in China and also Ridgeville, Ridgeville, South Carolina.

Wait, do you not mean the other way around? The EX30 is made in Belgium. Oh, it is. Yeah.

I see, because they had produced it in Jiangji cow in China. And I guess they're shifting production.

They moved it. Yes. But of course, Volvo is owned by Geely, which is why I would ask the

question. Sure, of course. And I don't care where it's made, but I do want it to be quality.

And maybe it's a stereotype that's informed by prejudice. I just feel like, where did they

make them before? Goldenberg in Sweden? Yes. Well, they still make some of their vehicles there.

Right. Just not these. You get the sense that those old 240s were over-engineered

and incredibly high quality. I drove my 240 station wagon for, I think, 250,000 miles without

changing the oil. Amazing. Well, I was going to ask if the China thing for you was more of a

political stance or more of a quality in materials? No, 100% quality. I have no political issues.

And I also recognize that in some ways, the Chinese have mastered copying production methods

as well. So for some products, they make them just as well as anybody else. Everybody says the

BYD cars in particular are astounding and I really want to get into one. Everyone says it's incredible.

I hear that from US CEOs. Yes. But there's something that a lot of Americans will not

appreciate about a Chinese-made car. For one thing, labor standards just are not

the same in China as they are in the Western world. So it depends how you feel about what

people are getting paid, what they're being made to do. But that's the one way to keep the cost

down. And that's for decades, that's what we've done. So it's interesting. To me, the combination

of not engineering it for speed, keeping the cost down by doing a lot of manufacturing in China.

And then I look at the interior, which the design of it has always been beautiful,

but they kind of miss the mark on the infotainment with me every time. And in the new vehicle

as well, the EX90 has a giant vertical screen like a big Ford Lightning or

like a Dodge Ram TRX, which I'm not saying I don't like those products, but I don't like

this huge vertical screen like someone just glued an iPad to the middle of my dashboard.

I agree. I actually do agree with that. And I think it's a miss that you have to go in

multiple layers into the screen in order to adjust side mirrors in order to adjust the

steering wheel. You have to literally punch through multiple layers in that system before

you can even adjust. I think that's a miss. I think you should have some sort of tangible

button knob or something. We've talked about it a million times and I think

most automakers are realizing they need to turn this back. It's just hard. That type of thing.

It takes forever to do it. But it's a great contrast to Formula One because they've got

a button for everything in those cars. Yeah, they do. And it was kind of a wild weekend.

I mean, we don't have to report the news. Everyone knows Max Verstappen won and also

kind of now has a chance to win the whole thing. There are two races left. So it was both McLaren

cars were disqualified. They were canceled. They were disqualified in the main race.

Zach Brown has not been canceled yet. No, he has not. That's a Christian Horner thing.

Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. But I will say this weekend at F1 was so intense. The amount of

corporate partnerships, Matt, that are happening is insane. And I'm not just talking

about the $1 billion partnership with LVMH and Mattel and Hot Wheels. I'm also talking about

the LEGO partnership, the Hello Kitty partnership with F1 Academy, which I have

a lot of mixed feelings about. Wait, F1 Academy is for women racers, right?

I hate the term women racer. Okay, sorry. Even that is offensive. No, it's not your fault.

Female racers? No. Lady racers? The term is racer. Yeah, but you're not allowed to be a dude,

right? They can't be a dude. Why is the default dude? You don't say woman doctor.

You don't say lady journalist. No, because you say journalist. You say racer.

Okay, but listen, Formula One, the main series, there's no gender limit. You can be whatever

gender the team wants, right? I love a trans driver. Why not? But in F1 Academy, there is

a specific gender that you have to be or identify as before you're allowed to race,

right? Am I wrong about that? No, you're not wrong. I have turned this over in my head

since they announced it. It's led by Susie Wolf, who's married to Total Wolf, who we all love.

We love Susie. We love Toto. They're a power couple. They're amazing.

They smell delicious. Yes, they've got clean teeth and polished hair, and they sleep every

night 10 hours, and they're perfect. I have so many mixed feelings about this whole academy.

I think it's great. Why? It's segregated. It is.

I'm instantly going to take the opposing view of you just because it's my knee jerk.

Thank you. It is segregated, but I think it's okay to do it for a little while while women

need a leg up or rather a more specific funnel to get them onto the real Grand Prix

center stage because right now, there's probably some kind of institutional...

I'm twitching. Keep going. Sexism that exists and keeps them out of the main event.

I'm trying my hardest to argue from the left here.

So how does keeping them in their own series

fight the sexism that is keeping them out of the main event?

Yeah, no, I don't disagree with you. Here's the problem I have with it.

Even worse is getting Hello Kitty to be a sponsor. I mean, do all the cars have to be pink as well?

It's so infantilizing, infantilizing. Yes.

On the Hello Kitty, I'll address that first. The Hello Kitty, I understand on the one hand,

you're trying to get little girls excited about racing, so Hello Kitty makes sense.

And you have a Hot Wheels partnership. You've got a Lego partnership.

Hello Kitty is another toy, sure. But there's something just kind of revolting to me as a

red-blooded woman to have a pink baby doll, Hello Kitty, attached to the Women's Only

Driving Academy because it gives yet another avenue to just brush it off as it's for girls.

And I think you want to be taken seriously as a racer and as a driver,

and you don't want to give any opportunity to just be brushed off. And I feel like there's a

little bit of a, we can pat ourselves on the back as F1 because we've created this academy,

so we've done the good thing and we're supporting women and we're supporting our

goals and now we can move on. And it seems, it's not performative. It's bringing in a lot of money

and it's allowing people like, for instance, Leah Block, who's actually going to leave this,

she announced she was leaving the series. This is Ken Block's daughter. Ken Block is an amazing

driver. Jim Conner. Exactly. His daughter has been in the series for two years. She's

actually leaving the series, she announced. Of course, it gives them exposure and experience.

But here's the problem. Leah Block does off-road riding, driving and rallies. She had not even been

brought up racing or driving in carts and she was coming at it from a completely different

avenue. Why not just get little girls in carts the same as little boys would be in carts?

Why do you, I don't, and the other thing. I don't disagree. I just feel like they're

probably smarter in the same avenues. Better equipped people to take the other side because I

think you're, I think you're, it's just, it's in a lot of senses, it's reverse, almost reverse

sexism. Yes. It can bring in, it can bring in money. It's certainly good for partnerships.

It will bring in money. But here's another problem. On Friday night, or was it Saturday?

You know, the, sorry, Saturday, they had the academy drivers out on track and

two of them crashed into each other before the race even started. And that to me is a sign that

they're not prepared to be, how are they not being supported by their trainers and their teams

that they're crashing before the race starts? How is that good for anybody? And I don't

even fault the drivers. I fault, they're, they're not being prepared. So this maybe,

maybe gets me in trouble, but I in, I want to obviously see some women formula drivers,

but I'm not sure this is the avenue. I hear you. Although I will say that even,

even the most experienced drivers can have those kind, those kinds of accidents in MotoGP.

Last weekend, we saw an accident on the starting grid before the race started,

because one rider ran into another, he just wasn't like paying attention.

Yes. And both of those riders were experienced, have been in MotoGP for years and years.

Yes. So it does happen, but you're totally right.

No, I, I, I, it's true. And it does happen. It could happen to anyone. It could happen

to Lewis Hamilton, but the problem is those drivers, they have to be like above,

they have to be perfect because as any woman knows, when you're in a field that's dominated by men

and you're one of the few women, every mistake you make is going to be a reason to not let you

in. And it's unfair, but it's true. And it's like every, I remember when I started

riding about cars, one editor who I really love and respect, I told me, don't wear baseball hats

when you're on camera because you're young and you're a woman and it makes you look even younger.

And the bottom line is people are going to look for any reason to discredit you,

discount you, not pay attention and don't give them any reason not to.

And I don't know if that's fair or unfair, but that's kind of reality.

Well, I applaud you, Hannah Elliott. And on that note, I say we bring this

conversation to a close. That does it for this week's show. Remember to follow and subscribe

to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you listen. Remember to tell your friends to

search Bloomberg Hot Pursuit. Bloomberg Hot Pursuit on Apple, on Spotify, or wherever you

get your podcast. You can find us, of course, on bloomberg.com as well. And email us

at hotpersuit at bloomberg.net. Tell us what you think about the F1 Academy and Hello Kitty.

You can also check out my columns and stories on bloomberg.com and the Bloomberg Business

app. Go there for car reviews, events, and stories that you won't find anywhere else.

You can find it all at bloomberg.com slash pursuits slash autos. And also,

shouldn't we say people should watch your show, Matt? I mean, it's not car-related

necessarily, but you can watch my show every day from 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. Open Interest

on Bloomberg Television. I occasionally make remarks about cars. I mean, automotive trade is

global trade. You got a face for TV, Matt. And actually, today I was talking to a global

strategist at Morgan Stanley. And she was talking about a recent trip to China and

the AI chip-making battle. I brought up the Porsche Cayenne EV. Because I think-

On camera, on air?

Yes, because the idea a lot of people, a lot of the angry commenters on social media

have said, look, this is a giant SUV EV that looks meh. I might as well buy

something from China if this is what I'm going to get from Porsche.

And I asked her if the same was true of AI chatbots, because she was saying a lot of them

work just as well, if not better than ChatGPT or Gemini3, but are more efficient, cost less,

and use less energy. So you might as well choose China.

Is that what she said?

And she also told me that she had been in the Xiaomi factory, that she told me off-camera,

and that she was really impressed by the design, by the build quality, and she had test-driven one

at the factory and said, you know, obviously the acceleration is just great in that EV,

like it isn't any other. So I thought that was pretty interesting.

We've got to get over there.

Otherwise, don't watch my show. I'm Matt Miller, along with Hannah Elliott.

We'll be back in your podcast feed again next week.

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Listener Mailbag, Mixed Emotions about F1, Driving the Volvo EX90 and EX30

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