Ross Gerber, a prominent Tesla investor, shares his journey with the brand, discussing its evolution from the Model S to the recent introduction of cheaper models. He expresses concern over Tesla's decision to strip features from these new models, arguing that it undermines the brand's value. Gerber also contrasts Tesla with competitors like Rivian and Lucid, highlighting their operational challenges and market positioning. The conversation touches on the future of electric vehicles, the impact of Chinese manufacturers, and the importance of maintaining quality and innovation in the automotive industry.
Ross Gerber, president and CEO of Gerber Kawasaki, joins the podcast to talk about his life as one of Tesla's biggest and most famous investors. Plus, thoughts on Tesla's decision to drop prices and whether it should pursue self-driving as a business model.
"Yeah. Aside from the newly redesigned Chevy Bolt it was probably the biggest car news this week..."
The Chevy Bolt is an electric car made by Chevy. It's designed to be affordable and is popular for people who want to drive an electric vehicle without spending too much money.
The Chevy Bolt is an all-electric hatchback produced by Chevrolet, known for its affordability and practicality in the electric vehicle market.
"Yeah. Aside from the newly redesigned Chevy Bolt it was probably the biggest car news this week..."
Chevy is a popular car brand in the United States that makes many different types of vehicles, including electric cars like the Chevy Bolt.
Chevy, short for Chevrolet, is a well-known American automobile brand that produces a wide range of vehicles, including cars, trucks, and SUVs, such as the Chevy Bolt.
"...it really started. I think it was 2013 when the Model S came out and Tesla went public and it was like a four billion dollar company."
The Tesla Model S is a high-end electric car that can drive long distances on a single charge. It has a lot of cool technology, like being able to drive itself in some situations.
The Tesla Model S is an all-electric luxury sedan that was first introduced in 2012. It is known for its impressive range, performance, and advanced technology features, including autopilot capabilities.
"...if this is this electric car you know like this is like actually better than other cars. So I was one of the first people in the world to really realize..."
Electric cars are vehicles that run on electricity instead of gas or diesel. They are considered better for the environment and can be cheaper to operate.
Electric cars are vehicles that are powered entirely or partially by electricity, using electric motors instead of internal combustion engines. They are often praised for being more environmentally friendly and having lower operating costs compared to traditional vehicles.
"...better cars than ice cars you know like actually electric cars are better cars and there's a lot of reasons why they're better..."
ICE cars are regular cars that run on gas or diesel fuel. This is different from electric cars, which use batteries to run.
ICE stands for Internal Combustion Engine, which refers to vehicles powered by gasoline or diesel engines. This term is often used to distinguish traditional vehicles from electric vehicles (EVs) that use electric motors.
"...I remember consumer reports loved the first Model S remember. Yeah but they had to fix every car that came off the line..."
Consumer Reports is a group that tests and reviews products, like cars, to help people decide which ones are good to buy. They look at how well the cars work and how reliable they are.
Consumer Reports is an independent organization that evaluates products, including cars, based on performance, reliability, and owner satisfaction. Their reviews can significantly influence consumer purchasing decisions.
"the Model 3 really till the Texas factory. The Texas factory was their first really good factory because Fremont's like a bunch of different things put together."
The Tesla Model 3 is an electric car that is known for being more affordable than other Tesla models. It's popular for its good performance and long battery life.
The Tesla Model 3 is a fully electric sedan that has gained popularity for its performance, range, and affordability compared to other electric vehicles. It represents Tesla's effort to make electric cars more accessible to the general public.
"...they launched the Model X after the Model S and that was kind of a disaster too because of the doors didn't work very well..."
The Tesla Model X is an electric SUV that has unique doors that open upward. When it was first released, there were problems with making the cars, which made it hard for Tesla to sell them successfully.
The Tesla Model X is an all-electric SUV known for its distinctive falcon-wing doors and advanced technology features. It faced production challenges and quality issues during its launch, which affected its initial reception in the market.
"...the short sellers decided that Tesla was going to go bankrupt. So every short seller in the world started shorting Tesla..."
Short selling is when someone bets that a company's stock price will go down. They sell borrowed shares and hope to buy them back at a lower price later to make a profit.
Short selling is an investment strategy where an investor borrows shares and sells them, hoping to buy them back later at a lower price. If the stock price falls, the investor profits; if it rises, they incur losses.
"...I have the Cybertruck now. Is it your favorite of all? What? Is it your favorite? No, it's not. It's not my favorite of all"
The Tesla Cybertruck is a futuristic electric truck with a very different look compared to regular trucks. It's made to be tough and is designed to be environmentally friendly since it runs on electricity instead of gas.
The Tesla Cybertruck is an all-electric pickup truck designed for durability and utility, featuring a unique angular design and made from ultra-hard 30X cold-rolled stainless steel. It represents Tesla's entry into the truck market, aiming to compete with traditional gasoline-powered trucks.
"...the new lower priced versions of the Model Y and what's, what's actually going on there? This is based off the news..."
The Tesla Model Y is a popular electric SUV made by Tesla. It's known for being spacious and having a lot of technology, making it a good choice for families or anyone looking for an electric vehicle.
The Tesla Model Y is an all-electric compact SUV that has gained popularity for its performance, range, and technology features. It is part of Tesla's lineup of electric vehicles and is known for its spacious interior and advanced safety features.
"...we're introducing a crappy version of our car to get, to make up for losing the tax credit..."
A tax credit is money that the government allows you to subtract from what you owe in taxes. For electric cars, it can help make them cheaper for buyers.
A tax credit is a financial incentive provided by the government that reduces the amount of tax owed. In the context of electric vehicles, it often encourages consumers to purchase EVs by lowering their overall cost through tax savings.
"...What made the brand cool was that the sound system was so good."
A sound system in a car is what lets you listen to music or sounds. Some cars have really good sound systems that make the music sound great.
A sound system in a car refers to the audio equipment that plays music and other sounds. High-quality sound systems can greatly enhance the listening experience for passengers.
"When they had the choice to go to an 800 volt architecture and faster charging, they decided to stick with the old thing."
800 volt architecture is a newer type of electrical system in electric cars that can charge the battery much faster than older systems.
800 volt architecture is a more advanced electrical system used in some electric vehicles that allows for faster charging and improved performance. It reduces charging time significantly compared to lower voltage systems.
"...the thing about fast charging is the faster you charge, the more issues you have with battery life. So there's this trade off..."
Fast charging means you can charge an electric car's battery much faster than usual, which is helpful when you need to get back on the road quickly. It uses special chargers to do this.
Fast charging refers to the ability to charge an electric vehicle's battery at a significantly higher rate than standard charging, allowing for quicker replenishment of battery power. This technology is crucial for reducing downtime during long trips.
"...the more issues you have with battery life. So there's this trade off of how fast we want the car to charge..."
Battery degradation is when a battery loses its ability to hold a charge over time, which means it won't last as long or perform as well as it used to. This can happen for various reasons, including how you charge it.
Battery degradation refers to the gradual loss of battery capacity and performance over time, often caused by factors like charging speed, temperature, and usage patterns. This is a critical consideration for electric vehicle longevity.
"...but they just did these 500 volt megavolt new chargers and I saw them charging it over 1200 miles per hour..."
500 volt megavolt chargers are special charging stations that can quickly charge electric cars. They use a lot of power to do this, which helps you get back on the road faster.
500 volt megavolt chargers are high-voltage charging systems designed to rapidly charge electric vehicles, significantly reducing charging times compared to standard chargers. These chargers are essential for supporting the growing demand for fast charging infrastructure.
"...Tesla is doing this too with 4680 and and I think Tesla is the best at this..."
The 4680 battery is a specific kind of battery made by Tesla that is larger and aims to improve how electric cars perform and how far they can go on a charge.
The 4680 battery is a new type of battery cell developed by Tesla, designed to be more efficient and cost-effective for electric vehicles, enhancing range and performance.
"So yeah, would you would you buy a fully EV Ferrari or when you buy a Ferrari is the whole point of it to have the internal combustion engine."
A fully EV is a car that runs only on electricity and doesn't use gas. This means it doesn't produce exhaust fumes and is better for the environment.
A fully EV (electric vehicle) refers to a car that is powered entirely by electricity and does not use any gasoline or diesel fuel. These vehicles are known for being environmentally friendly and often have lower operating costs.
"So yeah, would you would you buy a fully EV Ferrari or when you buy a Ferrari is the whole point of it to have the internal combustion engine."
An internal combustion engine is a machine that makes cars go by burning fuel, like gasoline, inside the engine. It's the most common type of engine in cars today.
An internal combustion engine is a type of engine that generates power by burning fuel inside the engine itself, as opposed to using electric power. This is the traditional engine type used in most cars.
"Yeah, for me, for me, I'm waiting for somebody to understand they can build the best supercar ever."
A supercar is a really fast and expensive car that is designed to be the best in terms of speed and performance. They are often very powerful and have advanced technology.
A supercar is a high-performance sports car that is typically very expensive and offers exceptional speed, handling, and technology. These cars are often seen as the pinnacle of automotive engineering.
"But you have the Remak. So this new Ferrari. What? Remak Navarra. Yeah, that's a fast car."
The Rimac Nevera is a very fast electric car that can go from 0 to 60 miles per hour in just a few seconds. It's designed for high performance and uses electric power instead of gasoline.
The Rimac Nevera is an all-electric hypercar known for its incredible speed and performance, boasting advanced technology and impressive handling capabilities.
"...like I had this Maserati once and when I bought it, they were like it's a Ferrari..."
Maserati is another luxury car brand from Italy that makes stylish and fast cars. They are often compared to Ferrari because they share some parts and technology.
Maserati is an Italian luxury vehicle manufacturer that produces high-performance sports cars and sedans. It is known for its stylish design and powerful engines, often sharing technology with Ferrari.
"...e. You know, what do you think about the Porsche Taycan by the way?"
The Porsche Taycan is a fancy electric car that looks and drives like a sports car. It's known for being really fast and having a lot of cool tech features. People talk about it because it's a big step for a brand that usually makes gas-powered cars.
The Porsche Taycan is an all-electric luxury sports sedan that represents Porsche's entry into the electric vehicle market. It combines high performance with cutting-edge technology, offering impressive acceleration and a range that competes with other electric vehicles. The Taycan is significant as it showcases Porsche's commitment to sustainability without sacrificing the driving experience.
"...the AI thing on the Tesla too. And it totally screwed up the infotainment system because..."
An infotainment system is the technology in cars that provides entertainment and information, like music, navigation, and phone connectivity. It's what you use to listen to music or get directions while driving.
An infotainment system is a combination of entertainment and information delivery in vehicles, integrating features like navigation, audio, and connectivity options. It's designed to enhance the driving experience by providing access to various media and information while on the road.
"...um, I was just driving the new Aston Martin, uh, vanquish and they are the first. That's a great car."
The Aston Martin Vanquish is a very expensive and beautiful car that can go really fast. It's designed for people who want a mix of luxury and performance, and it’s often seen as a status symbol. People mention it because it’s one of the most stylish cars out there.
The Aston Martin Vanquish is a luxury grand tourer known for its stunning design, powerful V12 engine, and exceptional performance. It has become a symbol of British automotive excellence and is often associated with elegance and high status. The Vanquish is frequently discussed due to its blend of beauty, speed, and exclusivity.
"But the one thing that, um, on the tech side, on the tech side, they are the first company or the first car maker to use Apple CarPlay Ultra."
Apple CarPlay Ultra is a technology that lets you connect your iPhone to your car. It helps you use apps, get directions, and even control things like the car's climate and driving modes without switching screens.
Apple CarPlay Ultra is an advanced version of Apple's CarPlay system, allowing deeper integration with a vehicle's functions. It not only provides access to apps and navigation but also controls various car features like drive modes and climate settings.
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Bloomberg Daybreak is your best way to get informed first thing
in the morning right in your podcast feed. Hi, I'm Karen
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I'm Hannah Elliott and I'm Matt Miller. This is hot pursuit.
Coming up on today's show we are all in on Tesla plus we dabble
a little bit in Rivian and Lucid Portia and Ferrari.
That's right. I mean all the good stuff back to Tesla.
It did announce this week some new less expensive models that
were rather stripped down and the response has been
underwhelming. Yeah. Aside from the newly redesigned Chevy
Bolt it was probably the biggest car news this week and we get a
deep dive with one of the most famous one of the earliest and
most outspoken investors in Tesla. We're joined by Ross Gerber
president and CEO of Gerber Kawasaki for the listeners of
our podcast who don't know how did you get started. How did you
become essentially the most famous Tesla investor.
Not by choice. That's for sure. You know it's been an
extremely painful fortunately profitable journey for me but
it really started. I think it was 2013 when the Model S came
out and Tesla went public and it was like a four billion dollar
company. They were down the street from us in Santa Monica.
So I knew who they were and my parents had dealt with Elon
because my dad my stepfather had done some work with NASA and he
was part of the group that was working with SpaceX to move our
space program to SpaceX. This was 10 15 years ago. And so they
had dinner with Elon and my mom said you know this Elon Musk
guy he's a genius. He's doing amazing things that you should
check him out. I said oh there's this Tesla thing down the
street. They go public. So we start looking at the company you
know. And so at the time they had no Model S so we waited about
a year and then the Model S was like being launched and we go
down to Santa Monica to the showroom and I looked at the
Model S and I said wow this is a pretty nice car and then I got
in it and we drove it and I said you know if this is this
electric car you know like this is like actually better than
other cars. So I was one of the first people in the world to
really realize like these were going to be better cars than
ice cars you know like actually electric cars are better cars
and there's a lot of reasons why they're better but but they
just are. And so we invested in Tesla right then and there
because I was like if they can make these cars like this will
sell like there's no doubt in my mind. And so that worked
pretty quickly because the Model S did sell and even at the
time there were lots of problems with the Model S with
build you know Tesla was known for building some of the worst
cars at that time. They built great technology but they had
not mastered scaling automotive. You did get I remember
consumer reports loved the first Model S remember. Yeah but
they had to fix every car that came off the line like literally
every Model S had like the roof was misaligned and so they'd
have to re glue on the roof of every Model S at a shop before
they would deliver it to customers. Tesla's been doing
this for years where they weren't good at manufacturing till
the Model 3 really till the Texas factory. The Texas factory
was their first really good factory because Fremont's like
a bunch of different things put together. So so basically
like Tesla was a great investment off the bat. It rallied
for us. We made five times our money within the first like
year. So we took a bunch of profits because that's what we
do. You know if we make five times our money like really
quickly and you know crazily enough I had like about a
hundred thousand dollars worth of Tesla from the IPO and if I
wouldn't have sold any of it. God I don't even know how much
that would work today. It's got like my Bitcoin. I wish I
never sold any of my Bitcoin too. But you know so I sold some
of it at the time because I made money and I was like this is
great. And then Tesla went through this like five years of
rockiness when they launched they launched the Model X after
the Model S and that was kind of a disaster too because of the
doors didn't work very well and it was super hard to make
these cars and they weren't making money on the cars even
though they were super cool and the stock really hadn't done
anything and then that was like we're doing all this to
launch the Model 3. And so when the Model 3 the scaled Tesla
was supposed to come out. This is about 2018. That's when
things got really difficult for Tesla. So they were running
out of money basically. They had about a billion dollars in
the bank. They're losing money. They got two expensive models
that people like but they're having you know they can only
make a hundred thousand a year of these cars. So they're
making a hundred thousand cars. They're selling them great
but we're trying to scale this Model 3. And what happened
was they Elon had this idea that he was going to build all
these you know cars with robots and he built a factory filled
with robots and when they tried to scale Model 3 in 2018
the robots didn't work. And so they couldn't get up to 5000
cars a week which is what they needed to do to survive. And
so they were stuck at about 2000 cars a week with the
process they had. And it was desperate. So what happened
was I was on the news a lot because I was a Tesla bull and
then it got very lonely because the short sellers decided
that Tesla was going to go bankrupt. So every short seller
in the world started shorting Tesla from Chano's to Michael
Burry from the Big Shore to Einhorn to Andrew Left. Like
it was literally like a cabal of investment firms against
Tesla. And then there was like me, Kathy Wood and Ron Barrett.
So we were like the only three investor people that actually
stuck with Elon and invested in Tesla. So in 2018 they raised
money in a convertible bond offering. They were really
desperate. It was such a good deal and that ended up being
extremely profitable. So we invest more money into Tesla at
that point because I went to the factory myself and this was
like early 2019 and I brought my wife because I wanted to make
sure that my eyes were not crazy. And I was like if they're
willing to open up everything to let me see it, like cool,
like awesome. So like I wanted to meet Elon, but I didn't get
to meet him that time. But I met Jerome Gillian who was
actually a guy in charge of operations. I tore the whole
factory, went to the tent. So I learned how to build electric
cars that day. Like it was amazing day. And at the end of
that day, I was like, this is the most incredible company I've
ever seen. They're going to make these cars and Jerome's going
to make these cars and they threw the robots out into the
field and they put humans in to finish the cars. And within two
or three months, they were up to 5000 a week and Tesla was
safe. But yet the market was like still thinking it was going
to collapse. But I was like, no, they've scaled. I went on
TV. I was like, they've scaled. There was an article in
Electric because they had it's a blog and they had gone the day
before me and they thought the same thing. There's like
everything's going great. Like why is everybody shorting the
stock saying it's going to collapse? And we had this
conversation. I don't know. Maybe they just haven't been to
the factory. But I'm going on TV saying I went to the factory
like it's working. You know, wasn't like it was a secret. I
was telling everybody. And so I became kind of like, so then
like Tesla took off, you know, so then, you know, we made a lot
of money and all the internet people that followed me made a
lot of money on Tesla. So there was this cult that sort of
formed.
You were big on Twitter. You were big on Twitter, right? Yeah,
I'm still big on Twitter. And and it's like, you know, I got
huge in 20 and 21 when Tesla took off and the markets took
off and everybody went online and everybody is like stuck in
the pandemic trading stocks. And then like, there's me and
Tesla and the thing goes like, you know, crazy. And we're and
we like 2020 was like one of my best years ever in the markets
and we just made a fortune. We made hundreds of millions of
dollars on Tesla. So it was just great, you know,
dude, how many Teslas have you had? Have you had every single,
you know, the X, the three tests? Yeah. So but I have the
the Cybertruck now. Is it your favorite of all? What? Is it
your favorite? No, it's not. It's not my favorite of all
because if Elon would let me sit down with him for 30 minutes
and tell him the things that need to be fixed on this
truck, it could be incredible. But there's things on the truck
that make it annoying and they can fix them like what they
just aren't. What? Tell us and maybe he'll listen to this
podcast. Well, I'll give you an example. The car is too big.
It's just too big. It doesn't fit anywhere very easily. And
if it was a little smaller, it would be just as good a truck,
but it would actually fit in people's garages and parking
spaces. You mean the overall dimensions? The overall length
and width? Yeah, it's just too big. It's a tank. It's a
massive tank and it drives incredibly well for its size
and weight. So like if you made it a little smaller, it would
be the super dope truck, right? You know, and then there's
things like you can't see out the back of the truck, you
know, like you can't see out the back. So they put this mirror
like a rear view mirror, but it actually doesn't show anything.
Now that when you're a human, that fucks you up, you know,
because you keep looking at a blank rear view mirror. I was
like, why did they put the mirror there? Well, they have to
by law, but there's nothing happens in the mirror. But yet
right below the mirror, they have the video of what's
happening behind you. And I said, why don't they just put
it in the mirror? You know, so you end up like going like this
half the time in your head because your eyes just you can't
retrain yourself not to look at a rear view mirror. You know,
I have to say, I'm very surprised you, you haven't had time
with Elon, considering... Not recently. Elon, Elon has a very
simple philosophy. If you tell him things he does not
want to hear, he hates you. Okay, so maybe go ahead. I'm not
the guy to make him feel good. My lot in life is to be a
pain in the butt. And I invest now $4 billion for people. I
invest in companies and these people pay me to represent them
against companies that are very self interested. Executives
make tons of money, tons and tons of money at every company. And
they need to be accountable to shareholders. I represent public
shareholders, people like you, people like me. I represent the
public. I don't represent super rich people. My company has 14
We have 14,000 clients from $25 of investment to $100
million client. You see what I'm saying? My whole firm, GK,
it like functions around helping people build a financial
future, no matter where you're starting. Okay. And so the way
I look at it is I'm the guy that represents the public
shareholders in the stock market against an industry that
makes billions of dollars off of us and should treat us well
because we fund them. Okay, so we fund the businesses. We're
funding AI right now. You want to start an AI company? Who do
you think they call? They call investors. They come by my
office every day. These private guys, they want money all the
time. I go, I only do public stuff, you know, and I keep
So wait, what's the real talk, Ross? When you're, when you see
the new lower priced versions of the Model Y and what's, what's
actually going on there? This is based off the news.
That's why you guys ask my mom. The news this week that Tesla
has introduced new versions of its top selling models for less
than 40 grand. Right. But it's like they suck. It's like
we're introducing a crappy version of our car to get, to
make up for losing the tax credit. And so and see, you know,
when you build a product, you want to build the best product
ever. You want to build it for a price that people can afford
it, but you want people coming home with the best product ever
not let's use Apple as an example. That was one of my first
great investments as a young person and Steve Jobs was one of
my main, like I loved Steve Jobs back when I was younger and,
and, you know, we made a ton of money on Apple still top
holding and Apple, I just bought my kid a new Apple MacBook
Air and he ran around the yard twice. He was so excited for
this thing. And I opened up this product and it's phenomenal.
You know, like Apple products like, you know, innovation, this
and that, no, they're phenomenal products. We all use them
across the world. They seem to never disappoint. We all want
more and more, but actually they make phenomenal products,
right? And so if you want an iPhone that is cheaper, you just
get an older model. Okay, but they work really well. You know,
I was using a 13 for a long time. I finally upgraded, you know,
so Tesla was always built in my mind in the same model. It was
Apple. It was a hardware product with great software. It
literally was Apple. And I was like, Elon could be the next
Steve Jobs. And that's what I'm saying. If we can make cars
that drive themselves and they're electric, we could sell
10 to 20 million a year. That was the original business plan
of Tesla. Okay, so when you see a company rip out what makes
that company so great out of the product, just to make it
cheaper, that is never a good sign for a company. It's never
a good sign. I think when you think about Tesla as a brand,
what made the brand cool was that it had fart sounds that you
could do in your car. What made the brand cool was that you
had a screen in the back seat that your kids could watch
YouTube when you're driving three hours. It's kind of nice.
What made the brand cool was that the sound system was so good.
One of the things I love about electric cars is that you don't
have noise from the engine. The cars are like silent and then
they have this great sound system in there and I could play
my jazz music. If it's recorded on a good, more modern music,
it's like they're sitting right there. It was so good.
If you spent $40,000 on a Model Y like last month and you got
the new Model Y, it's a great car. Okay? You take this great
car, you help electric guy that hates electric vehicles who
then takes away all the benefits to society for fighting
climate and then you respond by making a crappier version of
your car.
We should say the new models have less battery range.
They have stripped of features like the screens that you
mentioned.
How about the glass roof? They cover the glass roof.
It's one of the best things. You sit back and see the stars.
I mean, people buy Teslas, they would buy a Tesla, they would
get in this car and they came from a Toyota, a BMW or
Mercedes or whatever and they'd be like, this thing is fast.
It's quiet. I don't have to go to gas stations. The software is
amazing. It plays great music. I can make my kids laugh.
It's got screen in the back. It was a great deal. It was just
a great car.
Do you think, Ross, do you think the startups like Lucid or
Rivian have anything to match that or are doing a better job?
Well, what those companies did was from the beginning they
didn't need or rely on the incentives because the cars were
too expensive. So they sell to a different market.
But do you like them?
I like my Rivian a lot. I have the RS1 or it's my wife's and
I drive both and I really like the Rivian. I think they did a
great job. I think Rivian has other issues which are more
operational like when you're trying to get stuff fixed, but
it's just like you're buying a new company. It is what it is.
I can't blame the decision to stick with the 400 volt
architecture though. I mean, to me that feels like almost
decontenting a Model Y. When they had the choice to go to an
800 volt architecture and faster charging, they decided to
stick with the old thing.
There's lots of different challenges with faster charging
versus slower charging depending on battery degradation and
quality and all these other factors. So the thing about
fast charging is the faster you charge, the more issues you
have with battery life. So there's this trade off of how
fast we want the car to charge, but also we don't want the
battery to die after six years. And so that's one of the
challenges, but they just did these 500 volt megavolt new
chargers and I saw them charging it over 1200 miles per
hour added to the car, which is faster than I've ever seen.
And I'm like, dude, you can charge a car completely in 15
minutes now, a regular Tesla. So so I think, you know, a lot
of companies are trying different ways to address charging
and battery technology, whether in Tesla is doing this too
with 4680 and and I think Tesla is the best at this, you
know, by far, like they get charging and batteries better
than anybody in the world by far.
What is so loose vehicles? I also like but don't love because
the battery is too big in the Lucid and you know, it's kind
of like this hulking luxury vehicle and it's and it's
turned out to sell pretty well because people are buying those
now instead of Model S's. So so I like the Lucid and I like
the Rivian. I think they're good brands. I just think that
they serve the wealthy market and not the masses in any way.
And so there's a limited, you know, potential for those
companies until they have cheaper products and and if they
make cheaper products, it hurts being a luxury brand and
I don't think it's bad to be a luxury brand in EV because it
seems like all the luxury brands don't want to make EVs now
that Elon, you know, kind of got everybody out of making EVs
now.
You're listening to Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg Radio. We have
more with Gerber Kawasaki president and CEO Ross Gerber
after this.
This is Scarlett Foo and Paul Sweeney inviting you to join us
for the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Every day we harness
the power of Bloomberg Intelligence to bring you deep
dives into the companies that are moving markets from publicly
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but known by everyone on Earth like OpenAI. Now I help to build
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analysts are the best in the world covering more than 2000
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your podcast.
Now back to our deep dive on Tesla with Ross Gerber of Gerber
Kawasaki.
So can Tesla straddle that balance between, you just said
it's not great that they're selling these cheap products
that have been stripped, but they're more affordable.
You know, that is not a luxury product.
I mean, you know, women are very brand conscious.
Okay, so when you think about how men think about brands
versus women, it's very different and men are buying
processes much shorter.
You know, like we, I may beg to differ.
I think I know a lot of men who are pretty.
If you talk about wristwatches, men are very conscious about
like how we perceive a brand.
Now when a woman buys a brand, let's say we go into Prada
or Chanel and we're buying a very high-end brand.
Okay.
If there's anything in that store that's cheap, it hurts
that store.
You see what I'm saying?
So there's nothing in the store that's cheap.
The brand that's done the best at this is Tiffany's.
Tiffany's you can buy really expensive stuff, but you can find
some things that you can afford there.
You know, it's important to have a lipstick and maybe the
lipstick costs $80 because it's Hermes, but I have bought
an $80 Hermes lipstick just because it felt special at
Hermes store.
And that is a relatively affordable thing.
You know what I'm saying?
I guess, but you're saying that, but most people are like gasping
right now that you spend $80 on lipstick.
I know it's completely irrational, but I did it.
Right.
Exactly.
Because of the brand though, and I do this too, and you
brought up watches, which is exactly what men spend money
on based off the brand a hundred percent.
Okay.
And so there, we don't care about a lot of jewelry, but
watches is one of them, especially if you're so sophisticated
or whatever, you know, you got to have one of these.
You got to have an AP or something like that.
You know, and so.
Speaking of John, man, so brand.
Brands work really hard.
Yeah, like brands like Louis Vuitton is a stock we own once
and I spent and Ferrari and I spent some time studying the
brand philosophy of Ferrari and it's genius.
Like Ferrari is a genius brand.
They literally make $100,000 minimum profit on every car
they sell these people.
They sell the cars to the same people over and over again.
They don't even need new customers.
They make 8,000 a year.
They can charge 400, 500, 800,000 a car.
People pay it, right?
Margin's always 40%.
Every day he wants to be Ferrari, you're in the club.
You can't just go buy a Ferrari.
No, true.
So all by five to get the one you want.
Once I had enough money, I started figuring this out.
You go into a AP store and you're like, oh, I want to look at
your watches and they go, we don't have any.
You have to come in for an interview.
You know, and we'll decide what watch we think was great for
you.
And I go, dude, I got 50 grand to spend right fucking now.
I want to watch, you know, like and the guys like I can't
sell you watch this way, you know, and that's when I learned
the lesson.
I go, what is this?
It's like a fucking game.
Yeah, it's a game.
I got it.
I'm a capitalist.
You have to go to Lamborghini or Aston Martin.
I was ready to buy a watch that day.
I made a good trade.
I made 50 G's.
I was going to spend it and now I'm going to save it.
You know, I got to pay for private school now.
Sorry.
And so I paid for private school.
Watch or my kid, you're in private school.
It's done.
So my kids back in public school and I was like, I'm going
to buy a Ferrari.
So you go to the Ferrari dealership because actually private
school costs the same as a Ferrari or an AP.
It's $50,000 a year.
So I was like, oh, I'll buy a Ferrari now that my kids back
in public school.
Right.
So you go down a Ferrari like I want a Ferrari.
They go, you know, I need to sell you.
You got you got to go to Italy.
You got to convince them to sell you a car.
You might need to be Catholic.
Who knows?
Bugsie is like how exclusive can we make?
Dude, on that note, I have to ask because this week Ferrari
had its biggest share drop since the IPO.
Okay, the outlook was a little bit conservative.
But one of the other things that they told us is they're
going to scale back on their EV ambitions.
So yeah, would you would you buy a fully EV Ferrari or when
you buy a Ferrari is the whole point of it to have the
internal combustion engine.
I'm not the traditional market for Ferrari.
So my opinion doesn't matter, but that's why we have you
here.
We want to know what you think.
Yeah, for me, for me, I'm waiting for somebody to
understand they can build the best supercar ever.
That's electric because they drive better and faster and
handle better than gas cars.
Period.
But you have the Remak.
So this new Ferrari.
What?
Remak Navarra.
Yeah, that's a fast car.
But I'm just saying like the the plaid was the fastest car
on the road when I was driving it like 1.90 to 60.
I mean, it's hard to beat that.
And if you are beating it, you're at the risk.
You might just take off, you know, like it's it's fast,
right?
But like the the Elon thing.
This is what bothers me the most is that these companies
are now dialing back electric vehicle ambitions because the
pressure isn't going to be on them like it was to to make
these cars or they're not going to compete.
Now the problem with the Ferrari electric is it's a half a
million dollars for the car.
So it's really hard to get people to buy into a new concept
of Ferrari without the big engine, which is kind of what
Ferrari is about a little bit like I had this Maserati once
and when I bought it, they were like it's a Ferrari.
You know, it's the same engines as Ferrari's and you get in
the car and you turn it on and it's crap and and it makes
you feel like a man.
I'm more of a man.
You know, like I got a Ferrari, you know, it's like having
a good horse, you know, is like in the old days.
If you had a good horse in the old days, you're a better
cowboy.
I'm with you on that.
I'm not a very good skier.
So you get in the car and you push a button and it doesn't
make any sound.
It seems to be very hard for older Ferrari owners, you
know, and I'm like, how about the idea that it's just a dope
car and it drives super good and you don't need the engine.
You know, what do you think about the Porsche Taycan by
the way?
I think it's a beautiful car like the Porsche did a great
job with luxury and the pricing is expensive like it's almost
200 K but but it's a great looking vehicle.
The problem is Porsche sucks at software and the cars have
software issues and I don't know if they've solved it this
year or not, but if you buy one of these cars expect and they
don't do over the air updates.
So when you have a software problem, you got to take it
to Porsche.
Now this is like the like I would call the anti technology
technology where you make technology that's better that
makes your car worse, you know, and so that's my issue with
that.
They've got they've got to get better software and they got
to figure out that they that car companies in the future are
software companies more than their hardware companies and
they don't know that yet and they're still trying to be
hardware companies, but really they're building iPhones not
that drive not cars and and that's what Tesla innovated
that still most companies haven't really fully grasp.
Ross, I just want to put a pin and a bow on our Tesla
conversation just to wrap things up.
Where do you see us going from here after this announcement
about the lower priced cars?
You know, how are you?
What's your outlook now?
So the next six so in the next six months.
All this stuff comes to roost, right?
Like there's no credits anymore.
So how many Teslas are we going to sell in the next six
months?
And I don't know.
I just don't know.
I know from my experience as an economics person and some
of you studies business that we should see a pretty dramatic
drop off in sales this quarter as we pull demand forward with
the end of the credits and a great new car and and people
use that and they had a great quarter because people, you
know, went out and bought Teslas, hold their nose.
They don't like Elon who cares.
It's a great car.
I've seen the sticker.
Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, it's funny.
The stickers, I feel bad for the people who feel like they
need to justify it.
How about you just care about the environment like it's okay?
Like, you know, the heads of so many companies suck.
So like, you know, if you want to get into that, Elon's just
another one of the bad guys who runs another company, you
like, but I want to do what's best for me and the environment
and Tesla still is a great vehicle for that.
So I think that it's going to be a hard time for Tesla because
they still don't advertise.
Elon doesn't think he's doing anything wrong insulting people
constantly and people hate him in Europe.
They won't even buy the car.
You know, China is now getting ahead of us and they're making
extremely good electric vehicles and they're extremely
competitive and the government's all in.
So what I also fear out of this Trump administration philosophy
of going away from electric vehicles, then now we're going
to lose the race to build the best electric vehicles.
So China knew that when they let the Tesla factory in and
that was why they did it and then who would think it would
be so fortuitous that we would actually stop making great
electric vehicles and now they can take the entire market
from everybody and that's exactly what's going to happen
is in the next five years, Chinese EVs will be like the top
vehicles in the electric vehicle market.
I have no doubt you think they'll be here in the US.
Well, we're going to try to stop them, right?
Because sure, isn't that capitalism?
Stop the competitors and not free market capitalism.
You know, so I don't know.
They're in Europe.
I see them in Mexico.
So we've got Chinese buses here, I believe.
Yeah, BYD buses.
Sure.
So if you're a free market guy like me, you're kind of like,
yeah, why shouldn't I be able to buy a BYD dude?
I feel you on every level.
I feel like we're soul brothers.
Guys, I was going to say, are you long lost brothers?
Because Matt is just sitting back running a podcast together.
You know, this is why I don't have my own podcast because I
try to find great podcasters to be on their shows.
You need to come on more often.
I'm so glad we got you.
Yeah, I love to.
Yeah, I love to.
But well, that's what I'm saying.
I see, you know, I look at Bloomberg a lot and because
there's nothing else to look at anymore that I believe in.
And sadly, Reuters and Bloomberg is all I've got now.
And so, you know, no offense to all the other channels I'm on.
You know, I love you all too.
But but the quality is you guys are getting worked, you know.
Yeah, I will get you everywhere.
Yeah, no, I love your podcast and I love cars and you know,
I love technology and I think that this is one of the most
exciting times in technology.
You know, you didn't ask me about what I think about putting
Grock on the car.
You know, he put the AI thing on the Tesla too.
And it totally screwed up the infotainment system because
Grock is an integrated.
I didn't even know when you push the mic to like make a phone
call now and you like call my mom.
Grock's like, well, I can't do that.
And I was like, then why are you on my car?
And it's like, well, Elon put me on your car.
And I was like, but if you can't run anything on the car,
like, why are you on my car?
And how do I get back to the thing that used to do stuff?
And it's like, you can't and I was like, and I was like,
going to record this and post this because Grock will tell you
like, it doesn't make any sense why I'm on the car right now
because I can't do anything.
That's crazy.
You know, and, but it's the beginning of a big innovation.
That's about to happen in cars where in our lives where AI
will actually do stuff for us right now.
It's telling us stuff and it's great for research, but next
it's going to do stuff for us.
Buy me those tickets.
Yes.
Order me that.
A genetic plan that plan that trip for me.
Use my Bloomberg or mine tickets.
Yeah.
Yeah, I actually, I just, um, I was just driving the new
Aston Martin, uh, vanquish and they are the first.
That's a great car.
It's insanely good.
I'm so blown away.
Dude, the way I had an Aston Martin once that I loved it to
handling on this, I don't know how the engineers did it.
It like, it's not, it doesn't jar you, but it's also so sporty.
But the one thing that, um, on the tech side, on the tech side,
they are the first company or the first car maker to use
Apple CarPlay Ultra.
So it's CarPlay, but it also controls everything in your car,
drive modes and climate controls.
And, you know, uh, so you don't have to switch back and forth.
It's really.
So did it work well?
It worked really well.
It really.
Yeah.
Cause Apple failed in this whole car thing pretty bad.
And the original CarPlay was like kind of a joke and manufacturers
were just putting it on, but it was basically like a cheap integration.
But a full auto integration makes a lot of sense because car
makers can't make software, as I was just saying.
Yeah.
And so let Apple just take over your car, makes sense, be your iOS,
you know, of your car.
Um, it's, it's sort of like the next big battle is who controls
the, your car, you know, QNX or Apple, and that was sort of like,
Oh, we're going to license the Tesla software and all this
kind of stuff too, which, which could have happened if that's
what they were focused on.
Because, you know, even when you get in like a good new car, most
of that software to me is pretty like ridiculously bad.
Yeah, it doesn't compare to anything like a video game or
anything like that.
You know, it's like, yeah.
Dude, I agree.
We're going to have to have you back on, uh, again, because this
has been great.
I love your camera.
Yeah.
I think this is the beginning of a long relationship.
Uh, my final, my final tip is we're going to talk about cars.
Like I love it or music or music.
I've got my spring steam t-shirt on.
Special thanks to my new best friend Ross Gerber for joining
us today.
He is the president and CEO of Gerber Kawasaki.
That does it for this week's show.
Remember to follow us and subscribe to Bloomberg hot pursuit
on Apple spotify and anywhere else you listen.
You can also send us your comments.
Please email us your comments at hot pursuit at bloomberg.net.
And check out Hannah's columns and stories on bloomberg.com and
the Bloomberg business app.
Go there for car reviews, events and stories that you won't find
anywhere else.
Find it all at bloomberg.com slash pursuits slash autos.
I'm Matt Miller.
And I'm Hannah Elliott.
We'll be back in your podcast feed again next week.
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