Gell and Tom dive into the latest automotive news, including a review of the Lucid Gravity SUV and the reveal of the Jeep Recon. They discuss the challenges of winter driving, including the importance of winter tires, and share personal experiences with electric vehicles like the Nissan Leaf. The episode features insights from T.J. Campbell of Tire Rack, who discusses tire performance in winter conditions and the benefits of using dedicated winter tires. The hosts also engage in a light-hearted quiz segment, testing each other's automotive knowledge.
Jill and Tom open the show acknowledging a listener’s concerns regarding recent donut selections by Tom. This involves an apology to Producer Randy. (See the Car Stuff Podcast Facebook page for pictures of recent donut selections.)
Tom discusses some issues he had driving the excellent 2026 Nissan Leaf EV crossover. Tom’s issues include getting snowed in, and understanding the available charging options.
Still in the first segment, Jill reviews the new Lucid Gravity midsize electric crossover. Jill is impressed by Lucid’s second-ever model offering, but has a couple of concerns. Listen in for details.
In the second segment, the hosts welcome TJ Campbell, Tire Rack Information and Testing Manager, to the show. TJ talks about general winter-driving safety, and makes the economic case for Snowbelt residents to own a dedicated set of winter tires to swap on and off their vehicles seasonally. It’s a great conversation you don’t want to miss.
In the last segment Jill is subjected to Tom’s “One Minute” stop-watch quiz. How much stuff can Jill remember about cars in 60 seconds? Listen in to find out. Finally, Jill and Tom discuss the new Jeep Recon electric off-road SUV--as seen at the Los Angeles Auto Show. Will the Recon be the next Wrangler, or an expensive boutique toy? Listen in for details.
"In more fun news, I finally drove the Nissan Leaf. Yes."
The Nissan Leaf is a fully electric car, meaning it runs on electricity instead of gasoline. It's designed for city driving and is popular because it's environmentally friendly and usually cheaper to operate than traditional cars.
The Nissan Leaf is an all-electric compact car that has gained popularity for its eco-friendliness and practicality. It offers a range of features aimed at urban driving and is known for its affordability in the electric vehicle market.
"We talked a little bit about how there's CCS charging on one side and NACS charging on the other. Basically old school versus Tesla."
CCS charging is a way to quickly charge electric cars. It works with many different brands and can charge your car faster than regular home chargers.
CCS (Combined Charging System) is a fast charging standard for electric vehicles that allows for both AC and DC charging. It is widely used in many electric vehicles and charging stations, providing faster charging capabilities compared to traditional methods.
"We talked a little bit about how there's CCS charging on one side and NACS charging on the other. Basically old school versus Tesla."
NACS charging is a special way Tesla cars get charged quickly. It's designed to make it easier for Tesla drivers to find charging stations and charge their cars faster.
NACS (North American Charging Standard) is a charging standard developed by Tesla for its electric vehicles. It allows for faster charging and is designed to be more user-friendly for Tesla owners.
"But you can only level one or level two through the old CCS system."
Level one charging is when you plug your electric car into a regular wall outlet at home. It's the slowest way to charge, but it can work if you have time to wait.
Level one charging refers to charging an electric vehicle using a standard household outlet, typically providing around 120 volts. This method is the slowest form of charging, suitable for overnight charging at home.
"But you can only level one or level two through the old CCS system."
Level two charging is a faster way to charge your electric car, using a special outlet that gives more power than a regular wall plug. You can find these chargers in public places.
Level two charging uses a 240-volt outlet, providing faster charging than level one. It is commonly found in public charging stations and can significantly reduce charging time for electric vehicles.
"...the motor's up front and it's front wheel drive. There's no all wheel drive."
Front-wheel drive means the front wheels of the car are the ones that move it forward. This can help with grip on the road, especially in bad weather, but it might not be as sporty as other setups.
Front-wheel drive (FWD) is a vehicle configuration where the engine's power is directed to the front wheels. This setup typically provides better traction in slippery conditions but can limit performance in high-power applications.
"...There's no all wheel drive. So it took me like half an hour to get the car out of my driveway."
All-wheel drive means that all four wheels of the car get power from the engine. This helps the car grip the road better, especially when it's slippery or snowy.
All-wheel drive (AWD) is a drivetrain system that powers all four wheels of a vehicle simultaneously. This can enhance traction and stability, especially in adverse weather conditions like snow or rain.
The Lucid Gravity is a new electric SUV that promises to be very fancy and fast. It's part of a new wave of electric cars that are becoming popular.
The Lucid Gravity is an upcoming electric SUV from Lucid Motors, known for its luxury features and high performance. It is often discussed as part of the growing trend of electric vehicles that offer premium experiences.
"After the break, maybe I want to talk about the Jeep Recon a little bit."
The Jeep Recon is a new electric SUV from Jeep that is built for off-road adventures. It will have features that help it drive well on rough terrain, just like other Jeep models.
The Jeep Recon is an upcoming all-electric SUV designed for off-road capabilities, reflecting Jeep's commitment to electrification while maintaining its rugged heritage. It aims to combine the brand's traditional off-road prowess with modern electric vehicle technology.
"... the new SUV from Lucid. So they already have the Lucid air out and the gravity is finally out and it has two..."
The Lucid Air is a new electric car that is very fancy and can go a long way on a single charge. It's talked about because it's one of the best electric cars out there.
The Lucid Air is a luxury electric sedan that has garnered attention for its impressive range and high-end features. It represents a significant step in the electric vehicle market, often discussed for its performance and technology.
"...the reason why you talking about charging was a good transition into the Gravity review is the Monroney said it had 400."
The Monroney sticker is a label that shows important details about a new car, like its price and features. It's usually found on the window of the car when it's for sale.
The Monroney sticker, also known as the window sticker, provides important information about a new vehicle, including its price, features, and fuel economy. It is a requirement for all new cars sold in the United States.
"...I was able to get there with like 31% of the battery left, which was fine. And so it's a 200 mile drive..."
The battery in an electric car stores the energy needed to make it run. The bigger the battery, the further you can drive before needing to recharge it.
In electric vehicles, the battery is a crucial component that stores energy to power the vehicle. The capacity of the battery, often measured in kilowatt-hours (kWh), determines how far the vehicle can travel on a single charge.
"...previously had a charger that was free, not free anymore. And so I pulled in and I tried to plug in..."
A charger is what you plug your electric car into in order to refill its battery. There are different kinds, some are faster than others.
A charger is a device that supplies electrical energy to an electric vehicle's battery. There are different types of chargers, including Level 1, Level 2, and DC fast chargers, each providing varying charging speeds.
"I went to an Electrify America station. I was like, well, maybe the adapter isn't working."
Electrify America is a company that builds charging stations for electric cars, making it easier for people to charge their vehicles while traveling.
Electrify America is a company that provides a network of fast-charging stations for electric vehicles across the United States. They aim to support the growing demand for EV charging infrastructure.
"...this should get up to between like 250 and 400 kilowatts of charge time or charging speed."
Kilowatts are a way to measure how much power is being used or transferred. For electric cars, it tells you how fast the car can charge its battery.
Kilowatts (kW) are a unit of power used to measure the rate of energy transfer. In the context of electric vehicles, it indicates how quickly a vehicle can charge.
"Or is that a touring or grand touring? It was a grand touring."
Grand touring means a type of car that is made for both speed and comfort, so you can drive it fast over long distances without getting tired. They usually have better engines and features than regular cars.
Grand touring, often abbreviated as GT, refers to a type of vehicle designed for high-speed and long-distance driving, combining performance with comfort. These cars typically have more powerful engines and enhanced features compared to standard models.
"...the second time it only went up to 100 kilowatt charge speed. So I was just like..."
Kilowatt charge speed is how fast you can charge an electric car's battery. The higher the number in kilowatts, the quicker it charges. This is important for people who want to spend less time charging their cars.
Kilowatt charge speed refers to the rate at which an electric vehicle's battery can be charged, measured in kilowatts (kW). A higher kilowatt rating indicates a faster charging capability, which is crucial for electric vehicle users who need to recharge quickly.
"Right now I drove here in the Hummer, I've got the Hummer pickup truck, that'll charge up to 350 kilowatts, which will make pretty short work of charging even its monstrous battery."
The Hummer pickup truck is a big electric vehicle that can handle tough terrain. It has a large battery that can charge quickly, which is helpful for drivers who need to get back on the road fast.
The Hummer pickup truck is an all-electric vehicle known for its rugged design and impressive off-road capabilities. It features a large battery that supports fast charging, making it convenient for users who need to recharge quickly.
"...we don't talk much about the horsepower anymore. Only because these numbers are absurd."
Horsepower tells you how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and more powerful the car can be.
Horsepower is a unit of measurement for power, commonly used to quantify the power output of engines. It indicates how much work an engine can perform over time, affecting a vehicle's acceleration and top speed.
"the traction control system was in play. And I'm like, I know that and the beeping was killing me."
Traction control is a feature in cars that helps keep the wheels from spinning too much when you accelerate. It makes the car safer to drive, especially on wet or slippery roads.
A traction control system helps prevent wheel spin during acceleration by adjusting engine power or applying brakes to specific wheels. This technology enhances vehicle stability and control, especially in slippery conditions.
"...people are waiting for Apple CarPlay to come into effect."
Apple CarPlay is a feature that lets you use your iPhone in your car. It shows your phone's apps on the car's screen, making it easier to use things like maps and music while driving.
Apple CarPlay is a system that allows users to connect their iPhone to their car's infotainment system, providing access to apps, navigation, and music through the car's display.
"...my brother-in-law was a diehard Tesla owner. He had probably four or five Tesla Model Ss and he's recently switched into a Lucid Air..."
The Tesla Model S is a high-end electric car that is popular for its speed and technology. It's one of the first electric cars to gain a lot of attention and has many features that make it stand out.
The Tesla Model S is a luxury electric sedan known for its performance, range, and advanced technology features. It has been a significant player in the electric vehicle market since its introduction.
"...Reminds me a little bit of the BMW X6. But we'll see what happens."
The BMW X6 is a type of SUV that looks more like a sports car. It's known for being stylish and powerful, appealing to those who want a mix of luxury and performance.
The BMW X6 is a luxury crossover SUV known for its distinctive coupe-like design and sporty performance. It combines the characteristics of an SUV with the aesthetics of a coupe, making it popular among buyers looking for style and functionality.
The starting price is the cheapest amount you can pay for a car before adding any extra features or costs. It's a good way to know how much a car will cost at its most basic level.
The starting price refers to the lowest price at which a model is offered for sale before any additional options or fees are added. It's important for potential buyers to know this as it helps them understand the base cost of a vehicle.
"When we come back, we talk to TJ Campbell of the Tire Rack."
Tire Rack is a company that sells tires and wheels online, making it easier for people to find the right ones for their cars.
Tire Rack is a well-known online retailer specializing in tires and wheels, offering a wide selection and customer reviews to help buyers make informed decisions.
"I think it was a Civic with fake grass on it. Everywhere. Like literally everywhere."
The Honda Civic is a small car that many people like because it's dependable and gets good gas mileage. It's been around for a long time and comes in different styles and sizes.
The Honda Civic is a popular compact car known for its reliability and efficiency. It has been in production since 1972 and has gone through multiple generations, making it a staple in the automotive market.
"...do 10 best reader pictures. And I found a Pontiac Astra, which was the same as the Chevy Vega Pontiac"
The Opel Astra is a small car that's good on gas and easy to drive. It's a popular choice for people who need something practical and affordable.
The Opel Astra is a compact car known for its efficiency and practicality. It is often discussed for its affordability and suitability for everyday driving.
"was the same as the Chevy Vega Pontiac Astro covered with Astroturf, very neatly done. So Pont..."
The Chevrolet Astro is a big van that can carry a lot of people and stuff. It's liked by families because it's useful for trips and everyday life.
The Chevrolet Astro is a minivan that was popular for its spacious interior and versatility. It is often discussed for its practicality as a family vehicle and its unique design.
"...he end. I once had the, I think it was the Toyota Supra, but it might have been the BMW Z4 on summer tire..."
The Toyota Supra is a fast and stylish sports car that many people love for its speed and cool looks. It's popular among car fans and is often talked about because of its exciting performance.
The Toyota Supra is a legendary sports car known for its performance, sleek design, and tuning potential. It has a significant following among car enthusiasts and is often discussed for its role in automotive culture and motorsports.
"... the Toyota Supra, but it might have been the BMW Z4 on summer tires. And there was a freak snowstorm ..."
The BMW Z4 is a cool convertible sports car that is fun to drive and looks great. People like to talk about it because it's a mix of luxury and excitement.
The BMW Z4 is a sporty convertible that combines luxury with performance, appealing to driving enthusiasts. It is often discussed for its engaging driving experience and stylish design.
"...it's funny too how much, like, 1974, my dad had a Plymouth Valiant that I drove. I learned to drive on."
The Plymouth Valiant is an old car that many people remember from the past. It's talked about because it's simple and was reliable for its time.
The Plymouth Valiant is a classic compact car that was produced in the 1960s and 1970s, known for its simplicity and reliability. It is often discussed for its nostalgic value among classic car enthusiasts.
"...ad a friend in college who had a rear-wheel drive Camaro who put sand in the back of her trunk"
The Chevrolet Camaro is a powerful car that looks really cool and is fun to drive fast. It's a favorite among people who like muscle cars and racing.
The Chevrolet Camaro is a classic American muscle car that has been a symbol of performance and style since its introduction in the 1960s. It is often discussed for its powerful engines and sporty design, appealing to those who enjoy driving.
"or a compact crossover, a CR-VRF or something in that class, a Mazda CX-50, and I'm not picking on these vehicles for any reason, would you say that the factory tires"
The Mazda CX-50 is a small SUV that is fun to drive and looks nice. It's popular because it works well for everyday use and is enjoyable on the road.
The Mazda CX-50 is a compact crossover SUV that emphasizes sporty handling and stylish design. It is often discussed for its blend of practicality and driving enjoyment.
"I literally have no idea. Maybe the Rogue, Nissan Rogue. That's one."
The Nissan Rogue is a small SUV that's good for families because it has a lot of space and is easy to drive. People like it for being comfortable and practical.
The Nissan Rogue is a compact crossover SUV that offers a balance of comfort, efficiency, and practicality. It is frequently mentioned for its spacious interior and family-friendly features.
"So if the Rogue has it, maybe does the Mitsubishi Outlander have a three cylinder?"
The Mitsubishi Outlander is a small SUV that can fit a family and their stuff. It's talked about because it's a good choice for people who want something useful without spending too much.
The Mitsubishi Outlander is a compact SUV that offers versatility and a range of features for families. It's often discussed for its affordability and practicality in everyday use.
"You have half a minute. It is a mini countryman? Yeah, not the countryman."
The Mini Countryman is a small SUV that looks different and is fun to drive. It's liked for being stylish and practical for everyday use.
The Mini Countryman is a compact crossover that combines the iconic Mini styling with added space and practicality. It is often discussed for its unique design and fun driving experience.
"was the Mazda. It was a Mazda 2 that was built for Scion in the US. Yeah, it was ..."
The Mazda 2 is a small car that's easy to drive and saves gas. It's a good choice for people who need something affordable and practical for city driving.
The Mazda 2 is a subcompact car known for its nimble handling and fuel efficiency. It is often discussed for its affordability and suitability for urban driving.
"In one minute, I need five Land Rover Range Rover models. Go."
The Land Rover Range Rover is a fancy SUV that can go off-road and is very comfortable inside. People talk about it because it's a mix of luxury and adventure.
The Land Rover Range Rover is a luxury SUV known for its off-road capabilities and high-end features. It represents the pinnacle of Land Rover's offerings, often discussed for its blend of comfort, technology, and ruggedness.
"...ot a Range Rover, but you have like the Discovery Discovery Sport. You win."
The Land Rover Discovery Sport is a smaller SUV that can go off-road and is comfortable for families. It's popular for being useful and stylish at the same time.
The Land Rover Discovery Sport is a compact SUV that offers a blend of luxury and off-road capability. It is often discussed for its practicality and family-friendly features.
"...ver models. Cause it's not Land Rover Range Rover Discovery. It's Land Rover Discovery."
The Land Rover Discovery is a big SUV that can go off-road and has plenty of room inside. It's popular because it's good for families and adventures.
The Land Rover Discovery is a versatile SUV known for its off-road capability and spacious interior. It is often discussed for its practicality and comfort in both urban and rugged environments.
"...nd so you have the Defender like 190 Defender, or Defender 90 Defender, 100, whatever. But at any rate, you con..."
The Land Rover Defender 90 is a tough little SUV that can handle rough terrain and looks cool. It's popular among people who love adventure and off-roading.
The Land Rover Defender 90 is a compact version of the iconic Defender, known for its ruggedness and off-road capabilities. It is often discussed for its classic design and modern technology.
"...scovery, the Defender, the Evoque, the Velar, the Range Rover Sport, and then the big top of the line, Doug Range Rov..."
The Range Rover Sport is a fancy SUV that drives more like a sports car while still being able to go off-road. It's popular for people who want luxury and excitement in one vehicle.
The Land Rover Range Rover Sport is a performance-oriented variant of the classic Range Rover, combining luxury with sportier handling. It is often discussed for its dynamic driving experience and off-road capabilities.
The Jaguar F-Pace is a fancy SUV that drives well and has a lot of space inside. It's popular because it looks good and is fun to drive.
The Jaguar F-Pace is a luxury SUV that combines performance with practicality, offering a spacious interior and advanced technology. It is often discussed for its sporty driving dynamics and elegant design.
The Jaguar I-PACE is a fancy electric SUV that is fast and looks great. It's talked about because it's a new kind of car that helps the environment.
The Jaguar I-PACE is an all-electric luxury SUV that combines performance with sustainability. It is often discussed for its innovative technology and stylish design.
".... This is more or less an electric analog for the Wrangler. It's kind of open air."
The Jeep Wrangler is a tough car made for driving on rough roads and trails. It's popular among people who love outdoor adventures and want a vehicle that can handle anything.
The Jeep Wrangler is an iconic off-road vehicle known for its rugged design and exceptional capability on rough terrain. It is frequently discussed for its versatility and the adventurous lifestyle it represents.
"... electric off-roader than does Tesla. Because the Cybertruck has proven to be a massive flop in off-road situa..."
The Tesla Cybertruck is a new electric truck that looks very different from regular trucks. It's talked about because it's high-tech and has a lot of cool features.
The Tesla Cybertruck is an all-electric pickup truck known for its unique design and advanced technology. It has generated significant attention for its unconventional appearance and promises of high performance and utility.
"that exists. And my concern is it's built on the Wagoneer S platform and with the same battery and that kin..."
The Jeep Wagoneer is a big SUV that can carry a lot of people and gear. It's liked for being comfortable and able to handle tough roads.
The Jeep Wagoneer is a full-size SUV that combines luxury with off-road capability, making it a versatile choice for families and adventurers. It is often discussed for its spaciousness and modern features.
"... would have liked it to, compared to like a Grand Cherokee. This is a very nice riding vehicle."
The Jeep Cherokee is a smaller SUV that can handle rough roads but is also good for daily driving. It's liked for being comfortable and useful for different kinds of trips.
The Jeep Cherokee is a compact SUV that combines off-road capability with everyday practicality. It is often discussed for its comfortable ride and versatility, making it a popular choice for families and adventurers alike.
Select text to request an explanation
Whether you drive a car, need a car, or just occasionally bummer ride with friends, you've
come to the right place.
Join Gell and Tom as they break down everything that's going on in the auto world.
New car reviews, shopping tips, driving green, electric cars, classic cars, and plenty of
great guests.
This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.
All right, this is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.
I am indeed Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive, and I'm dark glad you're here
with us today.
When you get a chance, check us out at consumerguide.com.
All sorts of cool, fun stuff, including my most recent car reviews and the 2026 Consumer
Guide Best Buys are now posted.
Yeah, I saw you broke your news on a different podcast.
I didn't know when they were going to publish that.
Yeah, it's already up.
Yeah, so they actually got to it slightly before me, hours before me.
I don't know, are you talking about it today because we didn't have scheduled to talk about
it today?
No, no, no, but it's up.
Okay.
It's up if people want to check that out.
I'm just saying you broke your embargo on somebody else's podcast.
The We Are Motor Driven podcast, you can listen to it if you want to listen to the
podcast there.
Jill and I will be talking about the Best Buys later probably next year, January,
February.
We'll get to it.
You can tell you're really, really excited to get to it.
I am.
We'll get to it.
I am.
It's kind of a marathon.
I'm glad people listen to it.
It's one of our most popular podcasts every single year.
Okay.
So it's good.
But it's kind of a hassle to get through 35 to 40 vehicles in 60 minutes.
Okay.
Like you just don't do them justice.
Okay.
So I dread it slightly, but I'm glad we do it.
Okay.
And I appreciate you helping me with it.
Speaking with things, you and I were just fighting off air about the Oxford
Comma, but another thing I'm mad at you about.
I do not like the Oxford Comma.
I have to say that.
And have we introduced me yet?
I don't think we have.
That voice is Jill Siminello, a contributing editor here at consumerguide.com,
North American Car of the Year juror and general busybody.
Who hates the Oxford Comma?
Whatever.
Yeah.
I even have my chat GPT set up to not use the Oxford Comma.
And every time it now talks to me, it's like, here's your answer without the
Oxford Comma.
If I cared this much about the argument, we'd talk about what the Oxford
Comma actually is, but I don't care that much.
Clearly.
I'm mad at you.
Okay.
This is weeks old.
Was I right again?
No.
Well, it's not a right or wrong thing.
No, it is a wrong thing.
Okay.
I was wrong.
Yeah.
There was a thing here, a social thing that you didn't do.
So we won an award.
Yes.
In Texas.
We did.
And it's the best of my knowledge.
You've never mentioned this to me and you kept the trophy at home, so I
didn't even get to see it.
I've mentioned it to you.
As soon as I learned we won the award, I even, I think I might even
have been sent you a picture.
I haven't seen the trophy.
And I definitely posted a picture online.
And I think you're afraid I'm going to take it home or we're going to have it
enshrined here as a studio.
Well, I'm definitely not bringing it here, but I'm more than happy to show
photos.
I brought you a present today.
What?
A donut with icing?
No, we'll talk about the present later.
But tell us about the award.
Would we win?
Yeah.
So we actually won second place for the best podcast.
Not first.
Not first.
Second place.
Who won first?
I don't know.
I don't know.
It wasn't anything I ever heard of.
Oh.
I was just wondering if it was good.
I don't know.
It wasn't anything I heard of.
If it's like John McElroy, I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
You know.
All right.
But no.
It was second place for the Texas Auto Writers Association podcast award.
And what I thought, the episode that I submitted for entry was the one that
we interviewed Chris Fuel, the CEO for Chrysler.
And what I thought was really funny is the episode, the person who won above us, the comment
of why they won was because they get very good guests.
And I was like, who's better than a CEO of an automaker?
Yeah.
I don't know.
So that was a good episode, I thought.
I try to listen to every episode after the fact and I just sort of rank them in my
head.
And then I beat myself up over my own performance.
But yeah.
So that's nice.
We won an award.
Kind of like, you know, you use the Oxford comma when you're speaking.
How do you even do that?
I'm just saying.
I don't even know if you can make that audible.
Anyway, we won a nice award.
So that's cool.
We did.
It was really cool.
And to be clear, you're keeping the trophy.
Of course.
It has my name on it.
Wow.
That hurts.
Well, I'm the member.
You're not.
Oh, all right.
But I did.
In the official award notes, it says Jill Siminello and co-host Tomapel.
That's fine.
Yes.
Okay.
Congratulations to us.
Yes.
So, Pillboy on X apologizes to producer Randy for what he did to the donut options.
Okay.
Remember, he challenged us to mix up the donut thing, and then he wasn't happy with it, and
he figured Randy got the worst of it.
Oh.
Oh.
So, Pillboy apologizes to you, sir.
All right.
In more fun news, I finally drove the Nissan Leaf.
Okay.
Yes.
It's very good.
Yes.
There's really nothing there not to like, except the interior is a little cheap.
See, and I didn't find that.
Are you in the top tier?
I am.
Okay.
See, I didn't think that at all.
A lot of hard plastic, but it's modern looking.
It's clean.
It's a nice design.
And frankly, after you buy the car, no one touches your dashboard.
No.
No.
And it's affordable.
And I just, I didn't think that the interior was inappropriate for the vehicle.
Okay.
Just my take.
Yep.
I thought the interior was a little cheap.
But here's the thing.
We talked a little bit about how there's CCS charging on one side and NACS charging
on the other.
Basically old school versus Tesla.
Here's what I didn't understand.
Okay.
And I needed to understand because it really messed up my weekend.
Okay.
And it's my bad.
But you can only level one or level two through the old CCS system.
Yes.
You cannot level three.
Correct.
Level three is only through an adapter or an actual Tesla charger.
So I just silly me just drove to a Tesla station, there's one near my house.
Like 10 stations.
There's six taken.
Pull up.
First thing, problem is they need to change some of these Tesla stations.
The cord is very short because it is designed for Tesla to back into and there's no reaching
around the car.
No.
That's the first problem.
The second is that these chargers are not set up to take a credit card.
You have to have the app.
So you have to be set up with Tesla before you charge.
Okay.
I didn't know this and I ran really low.
Really low on the battery.
Okay.
I'm about 8% left of the battery.
Charged overnight in my driveway Saturday night.
Okay.
Why was this a bad thing?
110.
We got 10 inches of snow overnight and I couldn't back my car out of the driveway.
It's all the stuff's up front, the motor's up front and it's front wheel drive.
There's no all wheel drive.
So it took me like half an hour to get the car out of my driveway.
Oh, this was Friday night into Saturday.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
And I still didn't have anywhere to charge.
So I charged using the 110 outlet and whatever.
It actually, this car is so efficient, the battery is small enough that you actually get meaningful
charge overnight.
I picked up like 30 miles, something like that.
Okay.
I did it again Sunday night.
So hopefully whoever picked up the car today got it back to the office.
Right.
So that's just my little story.
You need an adapter.
You do.
If you want to charge at some place other than a Tesla station.
That is the moral of the story.
So why didn't you set yourself up on Tesla?
You're already in the spot.
It just seemed complicated.
Also here's a little piece of bad news.
Okay.
Kohl's, the growth of the department store.
And Whole Foods used to have Volta chargers.
Okay.
They were free level two chargers in front of the store.
I'm like, I am going to go to the Volta charger in front of Kohl's, pick up a
couple of garden burgers at Pratillas and read me some automotive news for a couple
of hours and pick up 50 miles of range.
That was my plan for free.
Mm-hmm.
They're not free anymore.
Yeah.
They're hooked up to Shell.
Okay.
And you have to go to the Shell app and it's not clear on the Shell app how you
get to this.
It was all very messy and confusing.
So.
Yes.
That's my story.
Okay.
That's my story.
I had nothing to do with the leaf.
I'd had to do with planting a head.
I didn't do it.
Well, so this is actually a really good transition into the review if you're ready to do
that.
Wait.
Review.
Of the Lucid Gravity.
Oh, okay.
I thought for some reason you wanted to talk about the, more about the leaf.
After the break, maybe I want to talk about the Jeep Recon a little bit.
Okay.
All right.
Well, not after the break, after the quiz.
Okay.
Let's talk about the gravity.
You drove that last week.
Tell us what that is.
I did.
So the Lucid Gravity is the new SUV from Lucid.
So they already have the Lucid air out and the gravity is finally out and it has
two.
It's the second car ever.
Yes.
It has two row, three row options.
The vehicle I had actually only had two rows and I drove it to Indianapolis.
And the reason why you talking about charging was a good transition into the gravity review
is the Monroney said it had 400.
It should get up to 407 miles of range.
I could only ever charge it to 270.
So I don't know what happened there.
I don't know if I got the wrong Monroney.
I don't know if, like it had about a thousand miles on it.
Maybe it just hadn't broken in yet.
I have the base range here at something huge.
Yeah.
Was it 540 miles?
The base range fully loaded, I presume, in ideal weather conditions is really high.
Okay.
I don't have it in front of me, but I thought it was over 500 miles.
Yeah.
So I need, I have questions I need to ask.
But so I drove to Indianapolis.
I was able to get there with like 31% of the battery left, which was fine.
And so it's a 200 mile drive.
And when I got to the hotel, which had, it was a courtyard in Marriott in Fisher's,
Indiana, and it previously had a charger that was free, not free anymore.
And so I pulled in and I tried to plug in and I had an adapter.
So this is a, it has an export Tesla charger.
And so I plugged in the adapter, plugged in the cord, scanned the code.
And I was like, okay, I'm fine.
I can pay.
I don't care.
Like I just, I just want to charge and get some range on here before I have to drive again.
Did not work.
So I had to then go, I went to an Electrify America station.
I was like, well, maybe the adapter isn't working.
Maybe that's my problem.
I'm like, I'll go to an Electrify America station.
So go to a CCS charger, fast charger and see if that works.
It did.
So the adapter with the Electrify America and the great news is, once I plugged
in Lucid must be on a free trial or whatever for charging.
You just started charging.
So I didn't have to pay for it.
Oh, interesting.
And the only problem is this should get up to between like 250 and 400 kilowatts of
charge time or charging speed.
I only ever got about 120.
Was cold out?
So it was, it was cold.
But that still seems very low.
Yeah.
And then the second day when I went, I had to go back and get more charge on
it to come back home.
And the...
And you said you only got how much range?
Like 270 was the max I could get on it.
And so then...
I found the number, by the way, it should take up to 516 miles of range.
And on my Monroni it says 407.
So you must have the bigger wheels or something.
Or is that a touring or grand touring?
It was a grand touring.
Okay.
That's why.
More power.
So I just, I don't know.
It was, it was interesting and then I had to put more and then I could only
get it, the second time it only went up to 100 kilowatt charge speed.
So I was just like...
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
But it was just, it was, it was a less than ideal charging experience.
But that was pretty much one of the worst things that I can say about the vehicle.
So we should talk about this for a second.
Some of the slowest level three chargers out there still charge at 50 kilowatts.
And when you have a battery of between 100 and 200 kilowatts, that can be a little
slow.
Right.
But a lot of these cars are capable of much faster charging.
Right now I drove here in the Hummer, I've got the Hummer pickup truck, that'll charge
it up to 350 kilowatts, which will make pretty short work of charging even its monstrous battery.
Right.
In ideal conditions.
Yes.
Yes.
And I've seen some relatively fast charging.
I had the lucid air that I charged.
I can't remember where I charged it, but it was an electrify America station.
And that charge did, I want to say almost 200.
So pretty fast.
Okay.
Like a little charge time got a lot done.
Like not a whole lot more than going to a gas station.
Right.
So that's the good news.
So tell us about this vehicle.
This is only their second vehicle.
Right.
It does not come in.
Originally it was going to come in cheaper than the other cars.
But it really doesn't.
No, the vehicle I drove was $111,000.
Okay.
Yeah.
And they started 90, I think.
They started 81.
Yeah.
So they're pretty expensive.
You drove the mid-level.
The top level is 141.
Yeah.
Starting.
Yeah.
So that gets pretty expensive.
Worth the money?
You know what?
I'm going to say yes.
So I took my parents-in-law at Indianapolis with us for Thanksgiving.
And so four butts in seats.
And we all really thought it was very comfortable.
Okay.
And plenty of leg room in the back.
My parents-in-law were very happy about the fact that they could adjust their climate
themselves.
So put, turn on their own heated seat, turn up the heat.
My husband I think was the lone person in the car who had his HVAC set to like
68 degrees.
And the rest of us were all at 85.
So he was like a little cone of- I'm the 68 degree guy.
He was a little cone of cold.
But it was fast.
It was smooth.
I set the cruise control at the speed limits on the way back.
And you know, it said that I would arrive back in Chicago at, I want to say, 28% of
the battery.
And I arrived back in Chicago at 28% of the battery.
That's pretty accurate.
It was incredibly accurate.
And what is really nice about that is it was 28 degrees outside.
So it was cold.
For it to be accurate in the cold, I was very impressed with.
We are seeing less cold weather or battery range degradation than we used to.
That is correct.
I'm not hearing a lot from manufacturers about this, but they're managing the battery
better.
Yes.
Which is interesting.
One of the interesting things about this vehicle too, like whatever it caused, how
much did you say yours was?
111.
Kind of a bargain for 560 horsepower.
And EVs are kind of skewing this thing.
But we don't talk much about the horsepower anymore.
Only because these numbers are absurd.
And there's plenty of power for passing an emergency and pulling away from a stoplight.
Like lots and lots of it.
You never want for power?
Nope.
But this, all the power over like 400 horsepower seems largely unnecessary and almost anything.
But there it is.
Yeah.
And if you get to the dream edition, 1,070 horsepower.
Good golly.
For what?
What do you do with that?
What do you even do with that?
For what?
I don't know.
But no.
This had all the power I wanted for, you know, and like I said, I pretty much set my cruise
control.
We drove back on Friday and there was no traffic.
So I set it at 70.
The speed limit is at 70.
And we essentially cruised without needing to pass or hit traffic the entire way.
And it just, you know, it doesn't have Apple CarPlay yet, but it's coming in as an
over-the-air update.
So we listened to the radio.
We got to listen to the Bears game on the way back.
I heard good things.
Yeah, they won.
It was shocking, but we listened to the Bears game on XM radio and it was good.
So the sound was good.
And my husband was able to adjust it because my father-in-law was the one who really wanted
to listen to the game and I could just stare at blank space and drive and I was fine.
So he adjusted the sound so that it was louder in my father-in-law's seat than
it was in any of the rest of our seats, which was great.
Did you fix that?
Yes, I did.
Okay.
Because, yeah, that really hangers me when I get a car.
I call it Kirk Belling.
Kirk doesn't generally, he's a fellow auto journalist.
He's been on the show a couple of times.
Generally doesn't mess with the balance and fade, which is the left to right and north
to south of the sound.
But he screws with the base and it's like he turns down the trouble on the base all
the way up.
He's a creakin'.
It's all about the base, man.
And you get into a car that should have an awesome stereo and you're like, well,
this sounds like crap.
Why does this sound like crap?
And you go into the system and you're like, Kirk was here.
It's been Kirk Belled.
It's been Kirk Belled.
Yeah.
But no, so we readjusted it.
You know, I did have a couple of kind of glitchy things happen while I was driving it
and I'm talking it up to like pre-production, early edition software.
When I drove here, I didn't have any sound.
So I had to perform a hard reset on the screens and then I had my sound come back.
Man, the digital age is weird.
I've had that happen to me in college.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I mean, I couldn't place a phone call like I couldn't hear or be heard.
There was no radio, like the sensors weren't beeping.
There's like literally no sound.
And then I had a beeping issue.
It like, something, there was an alert or an alarm for something and it was like beep,
beep, beep, beep, beep.
And I couldn't figure out what it was.
And I was already on the highway and so I had to drive 55 miles with a beeping sound.
This happened to me when I was trying to unstuck the leaf in the snow.
Every time I went forward or reverse, a beeping would start to let me know that
the traction control system was in play.
And I'm like, I know that and the beeping was killing me.
Yeah.
55 miles of beeping.
But once I turned the car off and turned it back on, it was fine.
And then after that, I really didn't have any other like glitchy things.
So I don't know.
I think this is one of those vehicles that is really awesome.
But somebody who is tech adverse or a little bit of a Luddite is probably not going
to be comfortable in this car initially.
Yeah.
It's not selling well yet.
I don't know what the problem is.
I don't know why the consumers are pushing back, but the prices are higher, I think,
than we thought they were going to be.
Well, and I think perhaps people are waiting for Apple CarPlay to come into effect.
So my brother-in-law was a diehard Tesla owner.
He had probably four or five Tesla Model Ss and he's recently switched into a
Lucid Air and he's like, oh my God, this is so much better.
And I was like, why?
And he's like, Apple CarPlay, he's like, I didn't realize what I was missing until
I got it.
And I was like, oh, because he, I mean, he got his first Tesla in 2012, which is
really before Apple CarPlay existed.
But you said that they can upload it.
Well, it's going to be an over-the-air update.
So the gravity just doesn't have it yet, but it will.
So that may not be any sort of barrier to sales.
But sales are slow.
But people could be waiting until it's there.
I don't know.
Maybe.
Maybe I don't think that's the problem here.
I think the prices might be an issue.
It's a good-looking thing.
It's got the fastback thing going on.
Reminds me a little bit of the BMW X6.
But we'll see what happens.
There's a cheaper model coming called the Pure.
And that should start around $70,000.
Yeah.
I love the way this looks.
I love the seat comfort.
I love how it drives.
I love pretty much everything about it.
I thoroughly enjoyed my test period, which
Rivian needs something good to sell.
And there's really nothing wrong with the air,
except that it is a sedan.
You said Rivian, so Lucid.
Lucid, sorry.
The Lucid air, and that's because it's a sedan.
And people don't really buy large sedans anymore.
All right, so that bad boy is on sale now.
Three trim levels.
Cheaper trim levels supposed to be coming.
OK.
And then you said that standard or installed
Apple CarPlay is coming as well.
Yeah, as is, I believe, a hands-free driving system.
So the Lucid air, I think, has the highway hands-free
driving system level, too.
Does that have a branded name, you, Lucid system?
I don't know, because I was in the gravity that doesn't have it.
So that is also coming.
All right, and that is on sale now.
Yes.
All right, we're going to take a break.
When we come back, we talk to TJ Campbell of the Tire Rack.
Yes.
About winter driving, winter tires,
and some fun stuff he did.
Yes, and winter tires very, very apropos right now.
Oh, man.
All right, stick around.
Questions or comments?
Drop us a line at carstuffatconsumerguide.com.
That's carstuffatconsumerguide.com.
Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.
And we're back.
This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.
I'm Tom She's Jill, and we're talking about a lot of stuff
today.
We just talked about the Lucid gravity.
Yes.
And we're going to be talking tires in a moment.
But real quick, just ask me a favor.
Ask you the question.
Yeah.
Hey, Tom, are you on social media?
Jill, thank you so much for asking.
I am Car Guy Tom on X and X Twitter and on Blue Sky.
I've been a little bit lax lately.
I've been busy.
So I don't have a bunch of car spotter stuff from this
weekend, although driving this weekend was treacherous.
Yeah.
You know, I have a car spotter I still need to post from when
I was driving back from Detroit.
And I spotted a Honda.
I think it was a Civic with fake grass on it.
Everywhere.
Like literally everywhere.
And I was just like, is that grass?
It was grass.
Years ago, early 80s, I was in high school, I think.
Car and Driver used to do a 10 best issue.
They still do it.
But they used to do 10 best reader pictures.
And I found a Pontiac Astra, which
was the same as the Chevy Vega Pontiac
Astro covered with Astroturf, very neatly done.
So Pontiac had an Astra in addition to Saturn
having one?
Yes.
Years, years, years earlier.
OK.
A-S-T-R-E, the Astra.
And they just needed a cheap car.
Astra, not Astra.
Yeah.
OK.
All right.
All right, on the phone with us, again,
I think for the third or fourth time, T.J. Campbell,
he is tire information and testing manager at the Tire
Rack, and always great to talk to.
T.J., how are you today?
Oops.
We lost T.J.
Technical.
Well, this is going to be boring if we don't have a guest.
Well, I could talk about the tire samples
that I keep in my freezer for just this topic
to talk about the difference between summer tires
and winter tires.
I said this would be boring.
What are you talking about?
So I actually went to the Tire Rack once,
and they gave us tire samples from winter tires all the way
to summer performance tires.
And if I keep them in my freezer,
and every once in a while, my husband's like,
I don't need winter tires.
And I'm like, this is why you need winter tires.
This is what your tires look like in cold.
And they are really stiff and unyielding.
But the winter tires flop like they should,
and it means they have more grip.
OK, so the demo here is that winter rubber stays softer.
Yes.
Basically, for better content.
OK, yeah, I think that's basically the case.
Like summer rubber, when we talk about sport tires,
and the three-season tires.
Well, and it's really funny, because you have the winter
tires that flop over, and then everything in between all
the way to the summer performance tires, which
are stiff as a board at the end.
I once had the, I think it was the Toyota Supra,
but it might have been the BMW Z4 on summer tires.
And there was a freak snowstorm in Fries.
And I had the car.
And I had to get to the office for a tire swap.
Wow, is that slow.
Like going up hills was menacing.
It was just tough.
Even though, well, this wasn't all wheel drive.
This was rear drive, but it was tough.
And it really demonstrates how important tires
can be in those conditions.
So I will have to post a picture of my tire samples.
Yeah.
I guess you will.
Man, but it's funny too how much, like,
1974, my dad had a Plymouth Valiant that I drove.
I learned to drive on.
That just had these big blocky snow tires in the rear.
And so that got you going, but it didn't do anything
for handling.
The tires could get in.
They could chew.
And in those days, everyone threw kitty litter or sand
in the back of their car, because everything
was rear-wheel drive.
You'd throw snow tires in the back,
and somehow that was supposed to fix everything.
It did not.
No, no.
I had a friend in college who had a rear-wheel drive Camaro
who put sand in the back of her trunk
every winter in Missouri.
Thankfully, we didn't get a lot of snow in Missouri, but yeah.
I knew a guy, first name Ron, who owned the service station
near the one I worked at.
And he was very into doing stuff to his cars,
and family, and he had a daughter my age.
And he had these bars that were made for this purpose
that he would bolt into the back of the car.
And my friend Chris, his daughter, had a Le Mans,
and really nice Le Mans with a Pontiac 350.
It was a beautiful car, but that was filled with, I think,
I think about 240 pounds of these bars in the back of a car.
It's no tires in the back.
And again, the safety there was that you could get going
from a stop.
There was nothing about stopping or turning.
But winter tire technology has really progressed since then.
It has, and actually, I believe TJ is with us now.
TJ, how are you?
Tom, I think I'm doing better now.
Can you hear me this time around?
We can hear you.
We can hear you.
Perfect.
TJ, thank you for joining us again.
Always good to talk to you.
Tell us a little bit about the Tire Rack
and what you do there.
Well, Tire Rack, we are, of course,
the largest online retailer of tires in the United States,
in addition to tires for your car, truck, SUV.
We also have a wide selection of suspension products,
brake products, lighting, wipers,
but more than just the retail side of thing,
the part of our company that is, of course,
most important to me is our tire testing program,
one of the largest independent tire tester,
the largest independent tester of tires.
I want to say in the world,
it could be just in North America,
but regardless, we're way up there
and we are completely objective, unbiased.
We just try to find out how each tire performs,
cut through the marketing hype
to find out what is the right tire for you
based on what your priorities are,
based on what your vehicle is,
how you drive and where you drive.
And a couple of incredible things.
You guys now have remote tire delivery, right,
where people can have their tires installed
in their driveway or at their place of work.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's right.
It's not in every metropolitan area,
but yes, it helps remove a little bit of that uncertainty.
There are those that feel like,
if you buy tires from the Tire Rack
and you bring them to,
even though that's one of our recommended installers
who says, yes, we happily accept Tire Rack tires,
there's still sometimes is that little bit of uncertainty,
or just the fact that sometimes it's difficult
to get an appointment during normal business hours.
I mean, I understand how hard that is sometimes.
You know, I work eight to six,
so that's when everybody's open.
So when you're gonna go to the tire shop
to have your installation done,
well, Tire Rack mobile installation
will bring the tires to you at home, at work,
basically anywhere that has a large enough space
that you're going to be,
and they will perform your tire installation
right there on the spot.
Now, we're gonna talk winter tires right now,
and it's so apropos.
I am looking out the window.
Palatine was just hit, Palatine, Illinois,
just outside of Chicago.
Record amount of snowfall for November.
It was a record 10 inches at once in snowfall,
and it was a mess around here.
And I actually went to the Tire Rack.com
to check out the tires on the vehicle I was driving
because they weren't awesome.
So I checked out the reviews there.
I understand if we stuff.
And the consumer reviews are so useful.
It's amazing, plus your own reviews.
So even if you don't use the Tire Rack,
go visit the Tire Rack.
It's just a wonderful resource.
But talking about snow,
and it can be really bad sometimes,
what do people need to know about driving in the snow
and what do they need to know about their tires
regarding driving in the snow?
Of course, you know, like you said,
it went from, hey, just when you thought it was safe
to go out in the winter.
You know, we've had a couple of weak winters,
let's call them, over the past couple of years.
And that has a tendency to make people get complacent,
think, oh, you know, it'll be fine.
It's going to continue being fine.
And then bam, record snowfall in November.
And I guess the first bit of advice
is always inflation pressure.
In order for your tires to do everything else
that they are expected to do,
they have to have proper inflation pressure.
And as I'm sure you and Jill know,
with every 10 degrees of ambient temperature loss,
your tires lose about one PSI of inflation pressure.
And similarly, they are losing about one PSI per month,
give or take, just from the natural permeation of air
through the rubber.
So if the last time you checked your tires was in July
and it's now, what, five months later and 50 degrees cooler,
there's a chance you've lost significant inflation pressure
in your tires from doing nothing, honestly.
So we're getting at that time of year where,
you know, maybe your TPMS light comes on in the morning,
but then it goes off in the afternoon
and you think, oh, I'm okay, I'm fine.
It's just, you know, it's hyperactive
or whatever the case may be, you know?
But those lights, the legislation that surrounds them
says that they only have to come on
when a tire is 25% underinflated or more.
So there is a big range where your tire
is not doing its job properly
and that light isn't even on yet.
So they are, they're not a reliable source of information
about the inflation pressure in your tires.
So absolutely, check it manually, take it to a tire shop,
a place like Tire Act does it for free.
We'll check, we'll inflate that sort of thing.
So make sure that's good.
And then just the second thing that I would recommend is,
check your tread depth.
Tires are not good to the last drop.
They do not perform exactly the same
when they are brand new as they do when they're worn out.
They need tread depth.
That is one of the things required of every tire
to do the job that you're asking it to do.
And as they wear, they get worse at things
that require volume of, you know, void area
to evacuate mainly being snow and of course,
slush and wet, which we get plenty of,
all three of those this time of year.
DJ, would you say that the average new vehicle,
let's just say something subcom,
or a compact crossover, a CR-VRF or something in that class,
a Mazda CX-50, and I'm not picking on these vehicles
for any reason, would you say that the factory tires
that come on these vehicles are sort of the ideal
all weather situation?
Or if you live in someplace like Chicago, Indianapolis,
Buffalo, New York, someplace like that,
if you should consider something
with a little bit more snow acumen.
The latter, absolutely.
We, as you mentioned, you know,
we have consumer ratings on our website
and these are completely undocked by us.
It is crowdsourced information at its purest.
We make sure there's no abusive language.
We check IP addresses to make sure
one tire manufacturer isn't loading up their tires
with good reviews and they're competitors with bad reviews.
But other than that, it is just purely people's opinions,
consumers' drivers' opinions,
and man, the original equipment tires
almost universally find their way
to the absolute bottom of the list.
Our ratings are color coded.
Green is good, yellow is in,
red and orange or orange and red are terrible.
And most replacement market tires,
even the ones that are just mid-pack,
are primarily shades of green with some yellow mixed in.
Those original equipment tires, again,
I hate to generalize, but man, we've just seen it so much.
They tend to be all yellows, oranges and reds
because people are so unhappy with them.
And you know, the reason for that generally
is original equipment tires are designed,
one with efficiency in mind.
Every vehicle manufacturer is trying to improve
their corporate average fuel economy
and a good way to do that on a large scale
is with fuel-efficient tires.
And that's great.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that on its own,
but there are also always compromises
that come with those kinds of changes
and some of those are wet traction,
light snow traction and wear,
which are very important for wintertime use.
So if you just got a new vehicle,
even though it has brand new tires on it,
this is absolutely the ideal time
to consider a set of winter tires
because you can put your winter tires on
and do what they do best for the winter season
and then switch back to those original equipment tires,
which are generally designed to be very pleasant,
to pair very well with the characteristics of the vehicle
during warm weather, during nice sunny days.
So you would essentially have the best of both worlds
with that one, two combination.
And while your winter tires on,
your original equipment tires aren't wearing,
so it extends the life.
And if someone buys a set of winter tires from you guys,
you guys will sell steel wheels to put them on, right?
So people don't have to buy a second set
of good looking wheels or have to swap them off
the OEM wheels.
Correct, though, with the increasing prices
of just regular steel,
a lot of the alloy-styled alloy wheels
are just as inexpensive as steel wheels are these days.
That used to be the go-to.
We used to talk about steelies.
We thought they were cool looking.
They're going down and they've kind of met in the middle.
Absolutely.
Yeah, you put your Darth Vader's on for the wintertime.
So we've been talking about winter tires
and all-season tires.
And I was just wondering,
and you know, the tires that come with your vehicle.
So I was just wondering, if you could talk about
what the actual differences are between winter tires
versus all-season tires versus your summer performance tires,
I've done a little bit of testing in,
not nearly as much as you, surely,
but I've done a little bit of testing.
And as I was talking about when we were,
before you came on, I have tire rubber samples
in my freezer.
You're very proud of these rubber samples.
I'm super proud of these rubber samples in my freezer.
But I'm just wondering if you could,
I mean, people hear about, oh, winter tires,
but I think that a lot of people,
and this is incorrect, think, well,
we don't get snow where we are, even though it's cold,
so I don't really need winter tires.
And that's not a correct statement.
So I was just wondering if you could talk
about the differences between.
That's a long way of asking my question
if you could tell the differences
between all season summer tires.
Of course, absolutely.
And I know exactly the rubber samples
that you're talking about.
We still have them here, you know,
the ones that were given away,
and we use them for all kinds of educational purposes
and that sort of thing.
I want rubber samples.
You're correct.
Like I mentioned earlier, every tire needs tread depth,
but every tire also needs two other things
to perform whatever task is being asked of them.
They need the right tread compound,
they need the right tread depth,
and they need the right tread pattern.
And with a winter tire,
all three of those characteristics
are highly specialized to provide maximum grip
in winter weather.
And it's not just snow weather.
Yeah, I could hear you two talking earlier.
I was trying to respond to you.
So I heard Tom talking about his snow tires
that he used to run, and he's 100% correct.
They were just like mild all-terrain tires,
essentially, you know, they had the chunky pattern.
And compared to, you know,
the straight ribbed bias ply tires of the day,
that was a huge improvement.
But nowadays, things have advanced so, so much.
So when we think about, you know, summer tires,
none of their features, not their depth,
not their compound, not their pattern.
None of that is designed for cold weather use
or certainly not for ice and snow.
All season tires, they are a compromise
and every tire manufacturer can determine
what balance of performance criteria
they have for their all season tires.
Some of them are, you know, somewhat winter biased.
Some of them are wanna be performance tires
that still have just the modicum of winter traction
and some of them try to be well-rounded.
So it's really kind of tough to, without testing,
like what we do, it's difficult to determine
where and all season tires' talents lie.
But winter tires, true winter tires,
they are completely dedicated to providing the best traction
when winter tire is at its worst.
So the compounds that they use, like Jill talked about,
they remain flexible even at freezing,
sub-freezing, sub-zero temperatures.
That makes them, you know, a good partner with the road.
They can key in to the imperfections in the road
that allows them to actually grip
as opposed to a lot of all season tires
that are, you know, getting somewhat near
their glass transition temperature.
They are getting more rigid.
They're becoming more rigid at those lower temperatures
that even on a clear road,
it does not allow them to grip the surface as well.
And then, of course, if you throw any kind of moisture
or snow or ice on top of it, you're in a bad situation.
So winter tires are specialized
for that the compounds they use.
They also generally have deeper starting tread depth
that helps them deal with the depth.
It helps them take big bites out of the snow
to get down to the surface where they can,
where the rubber contact can actually come,
or the rubber compound can come into contact with the road.
And then the patterns that they use,
they are generally very highly ciped.
You know, cipes are the little zigzag cuts
in the tire tread pattern that gives biting edges
that provide more traction in slippery surfaces,
you know, on ice, in snow.
There are generally lots of cipes,
lots of small independent blocks
and lots of features that are designed to hold on to the snow
because that's another misconception that people have
about winter tires and winter tire traction
is the best snow traction comes from other snow
that is held in your tire's tread pattern.
So it doesn't wanna, you don't want it to clear
the way that like a mud tire would.
You know, mud tire, if it's caked with mud,
you've got no traction, but with a winter tire,
you actually want it to hold snow in the pattern
to help, like a snowball,
to help provide snow to snow traction.
So, Jill, like you were saying that
even if you don't get snow,
winter tires are still very beneficial
because they're not snow tires, they're winter tires,
and winter isn't one specific weather condition.
It is an entire season.
It is, it's snow, it's slush, it's ice,
it's sub-freezing temperatures.
And like we experience here,
and many other people do,
it's a combination of all of those things,
often at the exact same time.
Now, I know we're running out of time,
but I'm just wondering if you could give a quick counter
to somebody who might say,
but winter tires are so expensive.
Absolutely.
Like we talked about, like I mentioned earlier,
you are sparing your all season tires
when your winter tires are in use.
So if you calculated out of the math,
which we have done before,
if you calculate out two sets of tires,
whether it is one all season and one winter
or two all seasons,
it comes out to about the same amount of total mileage
that you will get out of those two sets.
Yes, I do understand that you're buying one up front
or I guess in theory, we'll say you're buying both of them
up front versus spreading them out.
So I get that the output is spread differently
or is divided differently,
but if they last about the same amount of time,
and you have the ideal traction,
the ideal tool for the job 365 days a year,
as opposed to your all season tires
that are compromised at best when they're brand new,
and then you wear them down.
And how many people have we talked to that,
it's fall, they're going to their tire shop,
and it's like, oh, you've got like five,
30 seconds of an inch left.
So it's probably time to replace those tires
before going into the winter season,
which is, that's completely true, that's accurate.
But if you had a set of winter tires,
you could just be putting those on
and then you could wait until summer or spring comes around,
then you can put those all season tires on
and wear them out to the point that they're designed
to be replaced, not replacing them early
while they still have 20% of their life left
just because they're not ideally suited
for the conditions that you're about to encounter.
So that's another thing that people
oftentimes don't think about.
They overlook it is that in addition to
you're not wearing your all season tires
when they're not being used,
they can actually, having winter tires,
generally will get you another season
out of your all season tires
because you don't have to replace them early for,
and like I said, rightly so,
for winter's extreme conditions.
That's a great point,
and I've never really considered the economics of that,
so that's cool.
TJ, we are flat out of time.
Tell us how we can learn more about the tire rack.
Please go to tirerack.com,
check out everything that we have to offer,
especially the research and advice session section,
which is where all of our testing results are.
Like I said, we're completely unbiased,
just giving people the answers to the questions
that they need to help them make
the right informed decision.
Sounds good, TJ, thank you so much for your time.
You're so welcome.
Thanks for having me again.
All right, that was TJ Campbell of the Tire Rack.
We're gonna take a break,
and when we come back.
Quiz time.
Quiz time.
Questions or comments?
Drop us a line at carstuffatconsumerguide.com.
That's carstuffatconsumerguide.com.
Hi, it's Brendan from Sons of Speed.
You've heard me and my colleague,
Paul on the Car Stuff podcast,
whenever Jill's out of town.
But now you can hear us every week
on the We Are Motor Driven podcast,
along with Jennifer from Auto Exotica
and Harvey from Rides and Drives.
We talk about everything from sports cars
to trucks to EVs and our favorite, Speed.
So join us each week by searching We Are Motor Driven
wherever you get your favorite podcast.
Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.
And we're back.
This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.
I'm Tom.
She's Jill.
Learned a lot about winter tires.
Yes.
I never thought about the economics like that.
Yeah.
Which is interesting.
And I've gone to the tire rack a couple of times
that I've taken some of their tire testing classes
and that kind of stuff.
And that was one of the things,
the economics of it that always struck me.
And I keep trying to convince my husband
that he should get a set of winter tires.
And some year I think I'm just gonna surprise him
with a set of winter tires.
And he's like, meh, I don't need them.
I've got all season tires.
And I'm like, no dude, look at the rubber samples.
Interesting too.
And I feel that something has been lost
from the automotive community.
We used to see cars in the winter, cool cars.
With steel wheels, black steel wheels,
cheap slotted steel wheels.
And they looked so cool on steelies, right?
We used to call them steelies
and they were really badass looking.
To learn that those aren't cheaper than aluminum wheels
bums me out.
Because they lose a lot of their appeal
and no one's gonna put them on cars anymore.
But you used to see them on cool things
like a WRX, something like that.
All right, you've got some social media stuff
to blurt out.
I do.
We're a little short on time.
Okay.
You can follow me at Jill Siminello
or via the hashtag Cartageur
on pretty much every social medium that is out there.
So, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook,
threads, Blue Sky, all the things.
And if there's one out there that I'm not on,
please reach out to me and tell me where I should be.
All right, time saving quiz.
Are you ready?
All right.
We're back to the one minute quiz.
Oh, okay, okay.
Which is very appropriate
since we don't have a lot of time today.
No, we don't.
And this quiz is perfect.
I'm just gonna give you a topic
and you have to respond in one minute.
Oh, got it.
Yeah, so no eating my gingerbread doughnut
and stalling.
I'm just gonna slow you down, no.
It's gonna slow me down.
All right, are you ready?
Five questions plus the bonus question.
You need three for a win.
The bonus question always related
to the topic of the day.
Okay.
Are you ready?
Mm-hmm.
In one minute, give me four,
25 or 26 car models with three cylinder engines.
Go.
Three cylinder engines.
Yep.
Four.
Yeah.
You have 55 seconds.
I mean, is it current or?
Oh, 25 or 26 models.
Yeah, I've got nothing.
I literally have no idea.
Maybe the Rogue, Nissan Rogue.
That's one.
Keep talking.
It's like Jeopardy.
So if the Rogue has it,
maybe does the Mitsubishi Outlander
have a three cylinder?
No.
You have half a minute.
It is a mini countryman?
Yeah, not the countryman.
Well, the clubman doesn't,
well, clubman.
Right.
Cooper?
Yeah.
Okay.
That's two.
You're halfway there and you have,
I can't see the second hand.
You have 10 seconds.
Yeah, I don't know.
You giving in?
Yep.
All right.
The tracks, the trailblazer,
the invista, the Encore GX,
the escape, the Broncosport,
the base mini and the Rogue.
Okay.
All right.
Those are the ones I gathered.
Okay.
You have no points.
Yeah, no.
I'm like, nope.
I got nothing on that one.
All right.
This might be hard for you today.
In one minute,
I need you to give me five Scion models.
Any Scion models ever?
Five?
Five.
Okay.
Go.
XBTC, XA, XD,
FRS.
Okay.
There you go.
The list is,
I think this is every Scion model.
IQ, XA, XB, XD, FRS,
IA, IAM,
TC.
I think that's every one.
You got that one.
The IA
was the Mazda.
It was a Mazda 2 that was built for Scion in the US.
Yeah, it was the Mazda 2 sedan.
And cause we got the Mazda 2.
It's a really good car.
Like hatchbacky thing.
Yeah.
It was a really good car.
All right.
You have one point.
Are you ready?
Yep.
In one minute,
I need five Land Rover Range Rover models.
Go.
Just Land Rover or Land Rover Range Rover?
Land Rover Range Rover.
Well, you have the Land Rover Range Rover.
You have the Velar Evoke.
Let me see here.
Range Rover, okay.
Velar, okay.
Evoke.
I don't know.
That's four.
You need two more.
Three, three.
I mean, well, not a Range Rover,
but you have like the Discovery Discovery Sport.
You win.
Okay.
So you're confusing then.
Just Land Rover models.
Cause it's not Land Rover Range Rover Discovery.
It's Land Rover Discovery.
It is.
It is.
Although they have broken up the brand.
Cause they have Range Rover, Discovery,
and then Defender.
And Defender, yeah.
And so you have the Defender like 190 Defender,
or Defender 90 Defender, 100, whatever.
But at any rate, you confuse me.
But you got the question.
No, no bonus point.
I'm going to give you one point for that.
But we have the Discovery Sport,
the Discovery, the Defender,
the Evoque, the Velar, the Range Rover Sport,
and then the big top of the line, Doug Range Rover.
That's everything in the showroom right now.
All right.
This one, show me.
This might be tougher.
You have one minute to tell me
to give me three different French car brands.
Go.
French.
French.
I just watched The Day of the Jackal.
Anyway.
I mean, I think Renault is French, isn't it?
That's one.
You have 45 seconds.
I'm like, it's been a while since I've been in,
I mean, it's been a couple of years
since I've been in France.
30 seconds.
Is Citroën French?
There you go.
That's two.
I need one more French car brand.
Pugeot?
Three, you got it.
Okay.
Others listed here, DS, Alpine, and Bugatti.
Okay.
Bugatti is French.
I always forget about this, yeah.
I think people think it's Italian.
Yeah?
All right, you've won.
Okay.
Unbelievable, you've won.
Yeah.
Each one.
Each cylinder engine's, pfft.
All right, in one minute,
I need you to give me two current Jaguar models.
Go.
Are there any?
F-Pace?
Uh-huh.
E-Pace, I-Pace?
Yeah, you got it.
That was a trick question.
Yeah, I'm like, are there any?
It's just like F-Pace.
I went to the Jaguar site today
and they still list the E-Pace,
though they last sold, the last model year's 24.
Which means there are E-Paces.
Hey, electric car fans.
Mm-hmm.
There are E-Paces sitting around Jaguar lots.
The list price is...
E-Pace is not electric.
I-Pace is electric.
What?
That's what I meant.
I'm sorry, I meant, yeah.
50 grand, I don't know.
They're out there, you can get one, 2024.
But the F-Pace is the only car they're actually selling.
So that was a trick question.
You got it.
You have four, nice job.
All right.
All right, Christmas question for you.
Are you ready?
Is it a Hallmark Christmas question?
It is not.
It's a culinary question.
Boo.
Roasted chestnuts.
By an open fire.
What the heck?
I know, right?
Yeah, that's the song, Nat King Cole saying that song.
Written by Mel Tormé, I did not know this in 1945.
Mel Tormé, The Velvet Fog.
I don't know anything about roasted chestnuts.
I've never seen them, I've never smelled them,
I don't know what they are,
but apparently somewhere they're a part of Christmas.
I feel like I've had them before.
Have you?
Good.
Browned, maybe, I don't know.
I've had chestnuts in Chinese food.
Very crunchy.
Anyway, I need you to tell me which of the following
is the fake chestnut variety.
Hmm, okay.
Are you ready?
Yep.
This is almost like written for a quiz.
American, Chinese, European, or Bolivian?
One of those is fake.
American, Chinese.
European.
European.
Bolivian.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
European.
Yeah, American, Chinese, European, Bolivian.
One of them's fake.
European?
It's either European or Bolivian, I think.
I don't know.
I like Bolivia in anything.
Bolivia.
Because that's where Sundance and,
Sundance and, what's his name?
Rich Cassidy, thank you.
Rich Cassidy, really?
Yeah, Rich and Sundance.
I just found it in the window.
Yeah, they go down to Bolivia
where everything was supposed to be better.
Turned out that wasn't really the case.
Bolivia, then.
Yes, that is the fake.
Only because of your story,
because you like all things Bolivian,
and I was just like, well, then it's gotta be,
he just threw it in there because you like Bolivia.
I don't know if I like all things Bolivia,
I just like references to Bolivia.
So therefore, I figured that was the fake.
The other real one is Japanese chestnuts.
Yeah, so American, Chinese, European, Japanese.
If anyone wants to roast me a chestnut
and send it to me, that would be sweet.
Anyway, I am signing this for you.
Here you go.
I wanted to talk about something really quick.
We don't have time to get into it,
but I've been reading a lot of really weird doom
and gloom stuff about the new Jeep Recon.
Seems, and you agree?
I have been, yes.
Oh, you've read it?
I've read it and I'm concerned.
You are concerned.
Interesting, here's the thing about it.
It looked like it wasn't going to come out at all.
And then rather suddenly, it appears at the LA Auto Show.
So there it is, the Recon for people who don't know.
This is more or less an electric analog for the Wrangler.
It's kind of open air.
It's supposed to be a very serious off-road vehicle,
but it's electric.
Yes.
Couple of problems with this thing out of the chute.
Range.
And let's just forget about the fact
that this is a bad market for EVs right now
because the tax credit is gone.
But range is a problem, 250 miles, and price is a problem.
Starts at almost 70K.
But the thing I want to see here,
I hope to see here, is that Jeep knows better
how to build an electric off-roader than does Tesla.
Because the Cybertruck has proven to be a massive flop
in off-road situations.
And if you don't believe me, just go to YouTube.
Yeah, seriously.
And just do Cybertruck fail.
My favorite was trying to watch the Cybertruck
go through the Rubicon Trail.
Yeah, it badly beat up car.
It just, it didn't work.
It's terrible in the snow.
And a lot of this I think has to do with tires
and weight management.
The thing is profoundly heavy.
But the Recon's not going to be lighter.
No.
So we'll see how this goes.
But I'm sort of interested to see if,
first, if it's a good off-roader.
I suspect it is, or Jeep would not have launched it
because this is their brand.
Right, and it's trail-rated.
And I think they're saying it's the only trail-rated EV
that exists.
And my concern is it's built on the Wagoneer S platform
and with the same battery and that kind of stuff.
And I've heard not good things about the Wagoneer S.
I've been hearing that it has some serious problems,
like being bricked.
I have not run into that problem.
I drove the Wagoneer S.
I had it for a week.
Beautiful, I love it.
I like the car a lot.
It's a little cramped.
I don't say this about a lot of vehicles,
but a little cramped up front.
I am a big guy.
So that's a Tom problem more than a Wagoneer S problem.
But I find it to be kind of a classy range-rovery
kind of vehicle.
Nice interior, it feels expensive,
looks expensive, very quick.
Rides and handles well.
I did not ride as well as I would have liked it to,
compared to like a Grand Cherokee.
This is a very nice riding vehicle.
But a classy EV, I don't know how well that feels
it goes gonna sell because I'm not 100% sure what it is.
But the recon, I know what it is.
I'm surprised by the doom and gloom,
but you have your concerns.
Well, I mean, I think range is a big concern.
And I don't know how an electric vehicle
can be launched in 2025, 2026,
without having more than 300 miles of range,
especially when you're talking about a trail-rated EV
where you could be in the middle of a trail
and have no range and need to charge.
And so, this just, like, I don't know
how seriously it can off-road if, you know,
because you're in a low range
and you're using a lot of power and...
Yeah, I don't think range is an issue off-roading.
I think range is an issue using this
as a vehicle off the trail.
Very, very few people are going to buy
a $70,000 EV just for off-roading,
which means they need it for regular use.
And for regular use...
That's true, just they're not, but, you know...
You're gonna want more range.
Yeah, so range to me is a big concern.
Yeah.
All right, guess what we did?
We had great conversations.
We did, good show today.
Thank you to T.J. Campbell of The Tire Rack.
Yes.
Check them out at tirerack.com.
Thank you, Jill.
Thank you to producer Randy.
Let's talk more about cars again.
Next week.
Next week.
Remember to check us out at consumerguide.com.
The Car Stuff podcast is produced by J-Turn Media.
To advertise on the show, please drop us a line
at carstuffatconsumerguide.com.
Request an explanation for:
30 cars
Scroll for more
30 cars featured
Request an Explanation
Heard something you'd like explained? We'll add it to this episode.
Sign in to request explanations for terms you heard.
Want to learn more?
Browse our glossary for plain-English explanations of automotive terms, jargon, and concepts.
See something that's not quite right? Our annotations are AI-generated and can sometimes miss the mark.
Click the flag icon on any annotation to suggest a correction.
