Serious XM opens the show, then Morgan Shepherd’s story takes center stage—starting with early health challenges like polio and later Parkinson’s symptoms that make daily tasks harder. Between racing highlights and track strategy, Shepherd recounts moonshining roots in North Carolina, including how authorities were tipped off and how “You paid off some police officers.” The conversation also covers his NASCAR milestones, car setups like moving “75 pounds on the left rear,” and the financial and mechanical realities of running his own team, plus his charitable work.
Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with longtime fixture in the NASCAR garage, Morgan Shepherd, to learn about his journey from bootlegging to becoming a multi-time Cup Series winner. Born in Ferguson, North Carolina, Shepherd followed his father Jesse Clay’s footsteps into the moonshine lifestyle. It was here he honed his driving skills, and after a close call with the police scared him straight, he decided to exercise fast driving on the local short tracks. He took to the legendary Hickory Motor Speedway and began winning on a regular basis in the late model ranks. Through the 1970s, Morgan began moving up the NASCAR Late Model Sportsman rankings before winning the national crown in 1980.
This accomplishment catapulted Morgan into full-time Cup competition, and before long, he would pick up his first win in the top level of stock cars, at Martinsville in 1981, driving for Cliff Stewart. Morgan drove for a litany of owners throughout his Cup career and would park cars in victory lane on four different occasions. He spent the latter part of his driving days chauffeuring rides for his own team, breaking several age-related records along the way. Morgan would make his 1000th NASCAR national start in 2018 at the tender age of 76. Morgan joins Dale Jr. for a conversation about his legendary career and his current battle with Parkinson’s disease.
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"And right now Lionel Racing is offering free domestic shipping just for Dale Jenner download listeners. You can use this promo code download26 at checkout."
Lionel Racing is a company that makes NASCAR collectibles like model cars. Here, they’re offering free shipping and a promo code for listeners to buy diecasts.
Lionel Racing is a brand known for producing NASCAR-licensed collectibles, including diecasts and model cars. In this segment, it’s mentioned as the seller of Dale Jr. Download-related diecasts and as the place to redeem a shipping promo code.
"Back at the Martinsville Speedway, here's Morgan Shepherd, the leader, just exiting turn number two, taking the same groove he has all afternoon."
Martinsville Speedway is a NASCAR race track in Virginia. It’s known for being tight and twisty compared to many ovals, and this clip describes a driver’s position and line through the turns there.
Martinsville Speedway is a NASCAR oval track in Virginia known for short laps and tight, high-braking corners. The segment uses it as the setting for Morgan Shepherd’s race run, including references to turn numbers and racing lines.
"just exiting turn number two, taking the same groove he has all afternoon."
In racing, a “groove” is the best track path through a turn that the car can follow consistently. If someone takes the same groove, they’re driving the same line because it works.
A “groove” in racing is the preferred racing line—where the tires grip best and where drivers tend to pass or run consistently. When the host says he’s taking the same groove, it means the driver is repeating a proven cornering path lap after lap.
"The white with the blue flanked and blue roofed red numeral, performance connection, Pontiac Grand Prix of Morgan Shepherd, heads out of turn number two, taking the high line up close to the wall,"
The Pontiac Grand Prix is a Pontiac model that NASCAR drivers used in stock-car racing. In this clip, they’re describing Morgan Shepherd’s race car as a Pontiac Grand Prix as it exits a turn at Martinsville.
The Pontiac Grand Prix is a full-size performance-oriented sedan from Pontiac, best known in NASCAR history for being a competitive platform in the late 1970s and early 1980s. In this segment, it’s specifically tied to Morgan Shepherd’s car description as he heads out of turn two at Martinsville.
"performance connection, Pontiac Grand Prix of Morgan Shepherd, heads out of turn number two, taking the high line up close to the wall,"
In oval-track racing, the “high line” means running closer to the outside of the track through a corner. It’s often used to maintain speed and traction, especially when the car is set up to carry momentum near the wall.
Term
wave to the crowd
"and he's got to wave to the crowd as he goes by.
And Morgan Shepherd will win his first Grand National Race,"
After the race ends, drivers sometimes wave to the fans. It’s just a quick way to say thanks and acknowledge the crowd.
In stock-car racing, drivers often acknowledge fans with a wave after crossing the finish line. It’s a common post-checkered-flag gesture that signals the end of a race run and helps build driver-fan connection.
"...e goes by. And Morgan Shepherd will win his first Grand National Race, and the crowd gives him a standing ovation."
The Buick Grand National is a fast performance car made by Buick, and it’s known for having a turbocharger. That turbo helps it make strong power, which is why it shows up in racing stories. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because it’s the car tied to a big race moment.
The Buick Grand National is a performance-focused car best known for its turbocharged power and strong presence in drag racing and stock-car style competition. It’s a significant name because it helped define an era of high-performance “street” cars that could also compete seriously. The podcast references it in connection with a race win and the crowd’s reaction, underscoring its competitive importance.
"And Morgan Shepherd will win his first Grand National Race,
and the crowd gives him a standing ovation."
“Grand National” is an older name for NASCAR’s top racing series. So winning a Grand National race means beating the best drivers at the highest level.
“Grand National” refers to NASCAR’s top-level series name used historically. When the host says Morgan Shepherd will win his first Grand National Race, they mean a win at the highest NASCAR competition tier of that era.
Term
late-bottle sportsman
"Tremendous effort for a rookie driver, a late-bottle sportsman.
I'm right beside Morgan Shepherd at this point."
It’s a nickname for a driver who usually does best toward the end of the race. The idea is they can keep the car under control early, then find speed later.
“Late-bottle sportsman” is a racing phrase for a driver who tends to be strongest near the end of a race. It implies the car and driver come into their best rhythm later, often after managing tires and heat for many laps.
"And Morgan Shepherd has won the Virginia 500.
Cliff Stewart's team's a young team."
The Virginia 500 is a long NASCAR race held at Martinsville. Because it’s such a long event, the driver and tires have to last and stay consistent.
The “Virginia 500” is a NASCAR short-track endurance race held at Martinsville. The “500” refers to the race distance in laps/miles (as used by the event’s naming), and it’s long enough that tire management and driver stamina become decisive.
"and they go out and win at Martinsville,
you're able to prove to all your peers that you're a winner at the cup level."
“Cup level” means the highest level of NASCAR racing. It’s basically saying they proved they can run with the best teams and drivers.
“Cup level” means the top NASCAR competition tier (the Cup Series era). The host is saying that winning at Martinsville after qualifying well proves the team can compete with the best drivers in that highest class.
"Dale Earnhardt brings it right to the bottom of the racetrack. Can't do anything. The car slips up a little bit."
Dale Earnhardt is the other NASCAR driver in this moment. The clip says he was trying to catch up, but his car got loose and he couldn’t beat Morgan Shepherd.
Dale Earnhardt is referenced as the driver trying to challenge Morgan Shepherd near the bottom of the track. The segment describes his car getting loose and slipping up slightly as Shepherd takes the win.
"And Morgan Shepherd is going to get his biggest win ever. As he wins the Motorcraft 500, a couple of car lengths ahead of Dale Earnhardt."
Morgan Shepherd is a NASCAR driver. In this clip, he’s the one who wins the Motorcraft 500.
Morgan Shepherd is a NASCAR driver, and this segment frames his win as the biggest of his career. The hosts emphasize the race outcome and the margin over Dale Earnhardt.
"That's great with Jake and Morgan and Ducky and Steve and Toucan and all the boys and a pit."
The pit is where the race team works on the car during the race. It’s where they do things like tire changes and quick adjustments.
In NASCAR, the pit is the area where the team services the car during scheduled stops—typically involving tires, fuel, and adjustments. The speaker credits the pit and the crew’s coordination as part of the win.
A super speedway is a huge NASCAR oval track where cars go very fast and often run close together. The speaker is highlighting that Shepherd’s first top-series win came on that kind of track.
A “super speedway” is a very large NASCAR oval track designed for high speeds and drafting. The phrase is used here to describe the kind of track where Shepherd earns his first Winston Cup victory.
Winston Cup was the name for NASCAR’s top-level series at the time. The host is saying this was Shepherd’s first big win at a super-fast track in that top series.
Winston Cup refers to NASCAR’s top national series during the era when it was sponsored by R.J. Reynolds’ Winston brand. The speaker calls Shepherd’s win his first “Winston Cup super speedway victory,” tying it to that premier series and track type.
"...w, unfortunately, Dad runs second. He was in that Wrangler car behind you. We were pulling for Dad that day,..."
The Jeep Wrangler is a type of SUV made for off-road driving. It’s built to handle rough roads and trails, and it’s often used for trips and events where you need something tough. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because someone was driving one in the story.
The Jeep Wrangler is a rugged, off-road-focused SUV known for its simple, durable design and strong reputation in challenging terrain. In a motorsports or personal-story context, it may come up as a dependable vehicle for getting people and gear to events, or as a memorable “behind the scenes” car. Its mention here highlights the Wrangler as a real-world vehicle tied to the people in the story.
"but I remember your emotion out at the car in Victory Lane."
“Victory Lane” is where the winner goes right after a race to celebrate. When someone mentions it, they’re talking about the feeling of winning.
“Victory Lane” is the ceremonial area at NASCAR tracks where the winner parks and celebrates after the checkered flag. It’s a shorthand for the moment a driver realizes they’ve won the race.
"And Atlanta was a great track for you beyond that."
Atlanta is a NASCAR race track. It’s the kind of track where carrying speed and having a well-balanced car can really help you run up front.
Atlanta refers to a NASCAR track at Atlanta Motor Speedway, which historically has been a high-speed, momentum-driven circuit. Drivers often talk about it as a place where good car balance and confidence can translate into consistent results.
Bristol is a NASCAR short track with very close, aggressive racing. The cars that do well there are usually stable and predictable even when things get chaotic.
Bristol is a NASCAR short-track known for its intense racing and frequent contact, largely because of the track’s compact layout. It tends to reward cars that can handle bumps and still stay controllable under pressure.
Dover is a NASCAR track that’s tough on cars and tires. It’s nicknamed “The Monster Mile” because it can be hard to keep the car working well lap after lap.
Dover refers to Dover International Speedway, often called “The Monster Mile” for its demanding surface and high loads on the car. Setup choices that manage tire wear and traction are especially important there.
"You finished second in the Coke 600, got the pole at Martinsville.
Martinsville, a great track for you."
“Pole” means you start the race from the very front. It’s usually earned by being the fastest in qualifying, and it helps you get good position early.
In NASCAR, “pole” means starting first on the grid, typically earned by having the fastest qualifying time. Starting from the pole can be a major advantage because it helps you control track position early.
"You finished second in the Coke 600, got the pole at Martinsville.
Martinsville, a great track for you."
The Coke 600 is a big NASCAR race. It’s long and requires good strategy, so a top finish is impressive.
The Coke 600 is a major NASCAR race known for being one of the longest events on the schedule. Finishing second there is a big deal because it’s a long, strategy-heavy race where reliability and pit timing matter.
"17th in the points.
It was a relatively new team."
In NASCAR, “points” are how drivers are ranked over the season. Finishing well in races earns points, and your points position shows your overall season performance.
“Points” refers to NASCAR’s season-long scoring system, where drivers accumulate points based on race finishes. A driver’s points position (like “17th in the points”) reflects how they’re doing across the whole season, not just one race.
Term
growing pains
"It was a relatively new team.
They had a lot of, you know, a lot of growing pains.
What do you recall of working with Kenny Bernstein and the Quaker State car?"
“Growing pains” means the team was still learning how to work well together. Early on, it’s normal for things to be a bit messy before they get consistent.
“Growing pains” here means the typical early struggles a new racing team faces—learning how to coordinate setup, pit stops, and driver feedback. It’s a common motorsports phrase for the period before a team becomes consistent.
"...'re dominating in this damn, in this, uh, in this Nova dad had, and, uh, might have been a Pontiac Ventu..."
The Chevrolet Nova is an older American car that was made for performance. People often talk about it because it can be fast, especially when it’s built or tuned for racing. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as the car that was doing well in the story.
The Chevrolet Nova is a classic American muscle car that became well known for its performance potential, especially in earlier decades. It’s significant in racing and enthusiast circles because it was often built and driven in ways that emphasized speed and acceleration. The podcast’s mention ties the Nova to a competitive or memorable moment involving “dominating” performance.
"You got Poles at Richmond, Pocono, best finish of second at Dover.
You'd finally, you'd win the final Bush race of your career in 1988 at IRP."
Pocono is a NASCAR track with a tricky shape. They mention it because the driver did well there in qualifying.
Pocono refers to Pocono Raceway (often called “The Tricky Triangle”), a NASCAR track with three distinct turns and a unique layout. The speaker is using it as part of a list of tracks where the driver earned pole positions.
"You got Poles at Richmond, Pocono, best finish of second at Dover.
You'd finally, you'd win the final Bush race of your career in 1988 at IRP."
Richmond is a NASCAR race track. They’re mentioning it because that’s where the driver got strong qualifying results.
Richmond refers to Richmond International Raceway, a NASCAR venue known for short-track racing where handling and tire management matter a lot. The speaker is listing where they earned “Poles,” tying the driver’s results to specific tracks.
"You'd finally, you'd win the final Bush race of your career in 1988 at IRP.
If I'm not mistaken, I think Dad wrecked out with Michael Wattrip in that race,"
“Bush race” is a nickname for races in NASCAR’s Busch Series. It’s the series below the top NASCAR level, and the speaker is saying he won one of those races.
“Bush race” refers to NASCAR’s Busch Series, which was the second-tier national stock-car series for many years. The speaker is using the sponsor name “Busch” to describe that series’ race win in 1988.
Place
IRP
"You'd finally, you'd win the final Bush race of your career in 1988 at IRP.
If I'm not mistaken, I think Dad wrecked out with Michael Wattrip in that race,"
IRP is a race track where NASCAR events were held. They’re saying he won a major race there in 1988.
IRP is shorthand for Indianapolis Raceway Park, a venue used for NASCAR events in that era. The speaker says the driver won the final Busch race of his career there in 1988.
"in the Cup series trying to run your own outfit? Yeah, I hired people on a promise and it didn't work out."
“Cup series” refers to NASCAR’s top-level national series (historically the NASCAR Cup Series). It’s the highest-profile tier of NASCAR racing, where teams typically need more funding and more consistent performance to qualify and finish well.
"Anyhow, he came to Rockingham and brought a car down there. I said, what are you doing?"
Rockingham is a NASCAR race track. The conversation is about what happened when the team brought the car there to work on it.
Rockingham here refers to the Rockingham Speedway venue used for NASCAR racing. It’s a real track where teams bring cars to test, repair, and prepare for race weekends.
"And the shocks he had them were like, this is your shocks. It come over and got straight with this, which shocks are very, very important. So finally, he said, I don't care what you do with shocks, put them."
“Shocks” are the suspension parts that help the tires stay in contact with the road. If the shocks aren’t right, the car can feel unstable or handle poorly.
“Shocks” are the shock absorbers in a race car’s suspension. They control how the car reacts over bumps and during braking/turn-in, and in NASCAR they can strongly affect grip and stability.
Term
stern wheel
"So I got in, I sat down, pulled on the stern wheel, the whole stern shaft, everything come out."
This sounds like a transcription mistake for something steering-related. The point is that a major part came loose, so the car couldn’t be driven safely until it was fixed.
“Stern wheel” appears to be a transcription error for a steering-related component. The context says the “whole” part came out, suggesting a serious steering/suspension or mounting failure that would make the car undrivable until repaired.
Concept
running his own car on Saturdays
"And he was running his own car on Saturdays and winning races. And I think that strengthened his resolve to only be in positions and places where he felt like his input was being valued."
“Running his own car” means the driver is more independent than usual—he’s not just showing up to drive someone else’s fully managed race car. He has more say in how the car is prepared.
In NASCAR-era racing culture, “running his own car” means the driver is effectively operating as a small team—arranging the car, support, and entry rather than being fully locked into a big factory-style team. It often goes with more direct control over setup decisions and car direction.
"And you could tell by the conversations that we had with him today that he was a person that was going to say, I want to change left for spring. I want to put this nose weight in it. I want to do X, Y, and Z to the car. And if the crew chief wasn't open to that suggestion, it would be problematic."
The crew chief is the team’s main decision-maker during a race. They help decide how to set up the car and what strategy to run, and they coordinate the pit crew.
In NASCAR, the crew chief is the lead strategist for a team. They call the race plan and make key setup decisions with the engineers and pit crew, including how the car is adjusted between runs.
"And you could tell by the conversations that we had with him today that he was a person that was going to say, I want to change left for spring. I want to put this nose weight in it. I want to do X, Y, and Z to the car."
Nose weight is extra weight added to the front of the race car. Moving or changing it helps the car handle better in turns.
Nose weight is ballast placed at the front of a race car to control balance and handling. By changing front weight, teams can influence turn-in behavior, grip, and how the car responds through corners.
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You're Dale's Jr.
Should I say it?
It's Dale Jr. podcast.
I got to say it.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the Dale Jr. download.
We got a great guest for you today.
Had a conversation several weeks ago with Morgan Shepherd.
And it was awesome to see Morgan.
But I want to kind of be upfront with you guys
about some of the health challenges that Morgan is
dealing with.
And one of those is Parkinson's disease.
And it's affecting his memory, his train of thought.
And with that said, we made a few edits to this conversation.
And we added in some audio and some cool designs
and broadcast audio from some of Morgan's career highlights.
I want to thank MRN for giving us the opportunity
to make that happen.
And I hope you'll enjoy the conversation
that we had with Morgan.
So let's get into it.
Before we bring Morgan into the Arby's Studio,
don't forget about Arby's new meat in three box.
You get more meal for your money at Arby's.
We have the meats.
Morgan Shepherd.
Yes, sir.
How are you doing?
I'm doing good.
Yeah.
Had the pleasure of getting to come down and see you.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
I tell you, we see more of you now than when you was racing.
I know it.
Yeah, I know.
When I was driving a race car, I was always in a helmet
and under under the under the roof of that thing.
But now that I'm out of the car, I think I'm busier now
than I ever was.
I was I'm busier now than I was when I was driving full time.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you know how it is for sure.
Yeah.
So I'm thankful you're here.
Born Clay Morgan Shepherd, October 12, 1941,
in Ferguson, North Carolina.
And there's a ton of great stories about you.
And but I'm reading one here right out of the gate.
You had polio when you were young.
You felt that pretty hard.
Around 12 years old.
I went to Gastonia for a long time for treatments.
And I reckon that's what helped me take care of my health
that didn't go down now.
But it was because I appreciated that I had the opportunity
to go out and and and you know, our charity is we help people
handicap because the last year or so, I hadn't had any problems.
I was I was just amazed that when all these years
role-skated when I went to Australia, would you believe
they didn't ask me about racing?
Asked me if I brought my roll skates.
Yeah.
So you you've been dealing with some health issues here lately.
Yes. Yeah.
And that's what I can't believe how I've been healthy all this time.
And now now can't even put my shoes on early can barely walk.
Yeah.
It's mostly on the left side, but it it moves around.
It don't always stay there. Yeah.
Really? What are you struggling with?
What exactly you got Parkinson's and what you have Parkinson's?
Yes, Parkinson's.
And so what are some of those symptoms that that you're you're facing every day?
Well, it's different things.
But the main thing on mine is my left side of me.
Don't work well.
But then I'll get up one morning and it goes to the other side.
It's real real weird, weird.
Yeah. But it is what it is.
I've had a good, healthy life.
I'm just blessed to be able to go out and and use my name, you know,
to to help other people.
Yeah. I definitely don't take this for granted.
Well, that's awesome.
Yeah, you'll be 85 years old.
Yeah. Yeah. In October, 12 rolls around.
You're a 1980 NASCAR late model sportsman champion, four time NASCAR cup winner.
You got your start as a moonshiner.
There's not many of those guys left around.
No. What what were you doing running moonshine?
Well, my father, I had him tell us about 12 years old.
But he over in Ferguson, North Carolina,
has only two
22 places you buy gas.
And anyway, my dad never never had a new vehicle or whatever.
So anyway, we was making some deliveries.
And he look on the seat here.
It was a Pepsi bottle there.
Had a moonshine in it, white, white corn liquor, you know.
And so
that's that's kind of what got my story.
But they come and they called him and come and bought his brand new truck.
How did they catch him?
Just come to the server station over there.
And they saw it and all they had in there was
like a Pepsi bottle full of white liquor.
That was all they needed. That's all they need.
Man. And so did he have a steel?
Yo, yeah, yeah, the woods, three of them, three steels in the woods.
Yeah, yeah.
And you would as a boy, you would you'd be around all that and helping.
And did you ever run moonshine yourself?
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. One of the biggest things with us was
we
friend of mine, Clifford Baker, we
found us a place up above Hildebrand, our before we could pick up some.
But before that, I mean, they
they just knew they had us.
We was going up to pick up some so we could make a delivery.
And it was just unreal that we did this and I told Clifford
you know, it must must be 25 or 30
ABC people and all and in the road.
In the where they come in amongst us.
Oh, they knew they had us.
Oh, OK.
They were expecting to catch you and bust you.
Oh, they thought they had me there.
Yeah. And and where were you?
Where were you physically when this was going on?
Well, I was I was approximately 19 years old there.
Were you? Yeah.
But you were in a field where you on the street.
Were you? Oh, no, no.
If you know where Hikerspeed, you're driving down the road.
Yeah, we had one up to pick up pick up and you had a load of moonshine.
Yeah. How did they not bust you?
Well, they they didn't because
we had police officers that
helped us with this stuff.
Oh, you tip them off.
You paid off some police officers.
Yeah, we would go out and raid them.
Watermelon patch.
Yeah, you had a deal with the local law enforcement.
They they was good.
And whenever whenever they called us there
later on, I got with them.
I said, why didn't y'all tell us?
They said, Morgan, they was was going to get in bad trouble.
Yeah, they had to play alone.
Yeah, to stay, you know, so they didn't get in trouble.
That's interesting.
You is is that what?
That experience is what got you to steer away from that and get out of moonshine?
Well, I mean, how long did you continue to mess with that stuff?
I did. That was it.
Because when we was there going over to our seal
was walking over the hill going back down, it was after work.
So is it down in the woods?
I'm trying to imagine myself down in the valley where the creek.
Yeah, it makes handy as long as you got water around.
Gotcha. Did they bust up your seal?
Yeah, they blow it up.
Oh, they blew it up.
Yeah, I mean, this is the year about this is the stuff that you read about with
junior Johnson.
I've watched all the junior Johnson documentaries and movies and stuff.
And I don't know anyone else that actually experienced that same lifestyle.
So so that's pretty interesting.
So once they blow up your steel, you're kind of like, well,
maybe I need to do something else with my life.
Why didn't you go build another steel?
Keep on doing moonshine?
No, I hope I was smarter than that.
You know, yeah, I didn't let that happen.
Yeah, you you got your first car when you were 12, a 1937 Chevrolet.
You bought it for $12 to flying squirrels.
A gray squirrel and a 20 gauge shotgun.
Yep. What is it with squirrels?
You know, us living where we live.
Are they live squirrels?
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. OK. But I mean, I took them to races with me and flying squirrels.
Yeah. What do they do?
You give them some nuts and eat.
Yeah. But.
But that was I've always loved animals.
Yeah. So you had them as pets.
Yeah. Yeah.
So you gave up all these items to get this car.
This 1937 Chevy.
This is a this is a well known story.
You had a reputation, obviously, of driving fast around your little friend group
doing the moonshine
and a friend of yours asked you to race his car at Hickory.
Where you did you know anything about NAS or NASCAR,
but did you know anything about motorsports racing in general?
Did you have interest in it?
I just knew that I loved old cars and stuff.
And that's more or less how I made my living
with drivers and stuff at Hickory.
Yeah. But anyway, it was it was a fun deal.
Do you remember your first race?
Yeah. How to go?
I made a lap and a half. Yeah.
Transmission come out. Oh, well, well, your fault.
No, I've always pretty much took care of my car.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
When you don't have the money, you better take care of it.
You started racing late models of Hickory in 67.
And you ran the hobby division in 68.
You had a 55 Chevrolet that you were driving.
You won the season finale at Asheville.
And in 69, you dominated 20 winning 21 races.
You'd only ran. You don't.
So Morgan, you'd ran.
You raced in 68 and 69 as first real.
That was first the first two full seasons of your entire career.
And you made your cup debut in 1970.
That's fantastic.
I had no idea that you had started or raced in your first cup race.
It's such an early, early time.
You were driving for Bill Flowers.
You finished 19th.
You had rear end problems.
You made two more starts finishing best of 14th at Hickory.
In the early seven, in the early 70s, you had some
you had some personal issues that kind of derailed your career.
And it says here that there was a spiritual
or a reawakening that happened
to you in February of 1975.
You would, you know, you're struggling personally
to put yourself in a good place and you woke up one Sunday and vowed to change.
Yeah, I've I want to I only bring that up because
I have an uncle and you know who this guy is,
because I'm sure you've crossed paths with him in the garage at times throughout the years.
But he was he was wild and and and crazy
and lived his life aggressively and was tough, you know.
And then one day he said he was down in the woods hunting one day
and he said it just hit him and he wanted to he asked God to come into his life
that day and it changed his life.
Is every, you know, he's a different person to since that moment, right?
And I've met a few other people that have had these
these moments where they they ask for God to come into their lives
and they they make that change right then and there.
Like some other people like I think for me, it's probably going
if I'm going on that journey, it's going to be
months and months of of reading the Bible
and and just sort of easing into it, right?
Working my way into that swimming pool, right?
So to speak.
But a lot of people have it happen like a switch.
Is that kind of what we're describing here with you?
Yes, because during those years,
I had girlfriends all over the place, you know, when I go into this race,
I had one for that one.
Funnest one was I went to a riverside
and I had two.
This is what was very funny.
One was on the other side of France and the other was on the other side.
And they was waving at me as they didn't ever get together.
You know, just strange stuff.
Yeah. But anyway.
But you woke up one day and you said, man, I'm not I'm not happy.
Well, yes. Right.
And and for sure when
I was I had had picked up this girl and they told me flew her up.
And when I got done, I got down and out.
I just stopped myself.
More good.
It's not not very smart.
So sooner back to Daytona.
And I realized I was I had a problem
and I had to get rid of it and when you quit drinking.
Yeah, yeah, I was I was laying there in bed.
I thought, you know, my friends, you know, do this.
And and they're still OK.
Yeah. But but I wouldn't.
And I've always loved the Lord.
I just I didn't show it enough, you know.
And I did the wrong things.
Yeah, getting drunk is not is not good.
Yeah. And I didn't know.
I didn't realize how bad things was for me.
Yeah. And anyway, that was that was a turnaround for me.
It's interesting. I mean, this happened in in 1975.
And when I look at your career,
you know, it I wonder how difficult, I guess, it was for you to stay on that path.
Right. So you you'd been drinking, you'd been hanging out, you know,
womanizing and doing all the things ever all your buddies are doing a little bit
of that as well. They're drinking, they're having fun.
And so when you would, you know, now you got to stop doing those things
while everyone around you.
You know, is isn't is they're not going to stop.
Right. They're going to keep on doing whatever they want.
They want to do like if if a guy wants to quit smoking,
but his best friend's a smoker, right?
He's got to make he's a tougher commitment to remain
a non-smoker while his buddy's sitting there burning a cigarette.
He's got to go against those temptations to want to smoke, right?
And I imagine back in the late 70s, racing in the sportsman series,
um, how difficult, I guess, was it to remain on that path that you'd chosen
to quit drinking and and try to buckle down?
Yeah. Was it hard times?
None of that was hard for me on the drinking part.
Yeah.
Uh, T.G. Shepard, Shepard and I used to, uh, I mean, uh,
well, or Gatlin word and EverChristmas was up up there together.
And, uh, he said Morgan said, uh, I don't, I don't drink, uh,
but, uh, this is our livelihood because I always swore that none enough money
make me take another drink again.
Really?
And so he just kept on and said, we'll just think about it.
I said, okay, T.G., I'll think about it.
And so I went home and, uh, about two o'clock in the afternoon,
we come in, I flipped TV on and at two o'clock in the afternoon,
you're going to have talk shows and stuff, you know?
And, uh, this one guy, he was, he was on, on there and he said, how, well,
got him in trouble, you know, was the drink and everything.
He's in there for killing a couple of people.
And, uh, he said that, uh, it's just like climbing a ladder, you know?
So I, I took that, that, uh, I was going the wrong way.
Yeah.
And, and you know, I didn't struggle with the drinking or anything.
The Lord helped me cut, cut me off fire.
So, uh, that's fine.
Yeah.
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After the, uh, you know, after racing in the sportsman series in the late 70s,
you finally started getting some opportunities in cup again.
You got to team up with Jim Maycar.
Jimmy Maycar is a well-known name would end up starting Joe Gibbs racing and helping all that
get going.
Your first, uh, you got a couple of opportunities to race in the cup car with Maycar,
but your first full season was with Cliff Stewart in 1981.
You won at Martinsville, I believe.
You were driving the number five car.
I think you're, you won the Polat Richmond finish fourth,
and then you'd win Martinsville a couple of weeks ago.
Back at the Martinsville Speedway, here's Morgan Shepherd, the leader,
just exiting turn number two, taking the same groove he has all afternoon.
And I know this young driver from Conover, North Carolina,
must be smiling to himself right now, just hoping, praying everything will hang together for him,
and then nobody will be able to chase him down.
The white with the blue flanked and blue roofed red numeral,
performance connection, Pontiac Grand Prix of Morgan Shepherd,
heads out of turn number two, taking the high line up close to the wall,
and into turn three for the last time.
And Morgan Shepherd, a rookie, turns a little bit better as he comes around,
turn three and four, heading for the checkered flag,
and he's got to wave to the crowd as he goes by.
And Morgan Shepherd will win his first Grand National Race,
and the crowd gives him a standing ovation.
Tremendous effort for a rookie driver, a late-bottle sportsman.
I'm right beside Morgan Shepherd at this point.
He's sitting on a pile of tires with an ice pack on his neck,
also nursing his sore wrist.
Morgan, you look awfully tired, how do you feel?
Well, I'm not really all that tired.
I just, I reckon the heat got to me there about 20 laps to go, and I'm okay now.
I just had to catch my breath there.
When you twist one of these wheels here for 500 laps at Martinsville,
it's going to take a while to kind of catch your breath back.
And Morgan Shepherd has won the Virginia 500.
Cliff Stewart's team's a young team.
Jeff Bedine will drive for them a little bit.
Rusty Wallace will drive for them in 85.
I mean, they were a team that was,
they weren't winning a lot of races at all.
And when you get in the car and they qualify well,
and they go out and win at Martinsville,
you're able to prove to all your peers that you're a winner at the cup level.
You would have a, but it wouldn't work out.
Y'all would have fallen out after Talladega.
And I know there was a, I've read some articles in old Winston Cup scenes around.
There was, you know, you're at Talladega having a,
having a personal disagreement in the garage
with the guys working on that race car about what.
It was just 11 guy there.
Was it, who was it?
Was it Booby Harrington?
Darrell Bryant?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what was the problem?
I mean, something, what was it that y'all couldn't work out?
Well, he came in there and got to arguing with my guys.
So you had some of your boys on the car?
You had some of your guys helping on the car?
Oh yeah.
All these guys that came in with me,
they, that's how they got started in the cup racing or whatever, you know.
And of course I was loyal to them and it is loyal to me.
Y'all had a, y'all had a disagreement, a public disagreement at Talladega and you,
you're like, man, I'm, I'm out of here.
I'm not, I'm a, like we just won at Martinsville a couple weeks ago.
And why would you give up this full-time opportunity and at the cup level?
That's the question I guess I have is like, man, you've worked your butt off to get this
opportunity to run every week in a cup car.
And it's a car that you can take and win at some racetracks, right?
Right.
But you're gonna, you were at a point in after Talladega,
you're like, I, I'm not gonna, I can't do this anymore.
I'm just really surprised by the decision to, to cut bait in the middle of the season.
Yeah.
And how you couldn't work it out, I reckon.
Yeah, I was okay.
If we could have kept everything tied together with Cliff Sturt, I mean, he had the money to,
you know, do what was going to do.
One of the boys that had working for me, it was biggest problem on that.
Just constantly calling Cliff and, you know, we didn't do this, that.
But, but that destroyed our team.
Because as far as a team owner or whatever, you got one person that's looking after it.
And, and nothing really should go by you.
You know, he messed her team up and Darryl and some of the guys got together.
And it was just a, just an ugly thing.
Everybody really, really thought I was the one that beat you up, you know, that's how it got
to NASCAR.
Did he get, was there a physical fight?
It was on Saturday.
Yeah.
But you weren't involved.
No.
Wow.
No, but well, all right.
That led me away from it.
And I said, well, they ain't gonna stop me.
I'll build my own cars, you know.
Well, you would, you'd race, and from 84 to 86, you didn't have a full-time ride.
You raced for so many different car owners.
Jimmy Means, I was a big Jimmy Means fan.
I loved Jimmy Means.
Man, I loved him.
Me and Brad, his son would run, you probably saw my ass run around the racetrack like an idiot.
When I was a little kid in the 80s, me and Brad would always seek each other out at the racetrack
to try to hang out, right?
Not hang out in his hauler with his dad's crew, or we might go over to my dad's,
but they were a little less friendly over in dad's hauler.
They were all tough men, you know, and hard to be around.
I was scared to be around most of those guys.
But I loved Jimmy Means.
You raced for Roger Hanby, which a lot of people did.
Cool folks for Roger.
Yeah.
You ended up, you know, you drove for Buddy Errington once.
Petty Enterprises, Bobby Hawkins, Helen Ray Smith, Jack Bebe.
That was the really, that was a great opportunity for you.
So let's talk, let's talk about that.
You were, so my point is, is like from 81 to 85, man, you drove 100 different race cars,
just trying to get from one week to the next.
And a lot of these cars weren't going to be cars you could compete with and be competitive.
Anytime I ran my car, would get it done.
You did.
Every time you drove your own car, you ran great.
Yeah.
You finally get a chance to drive Jack Bebe's car, the Race Hill Farms,
beautiful race car, iconic paint scheme, white sides, yellow top, blue 47.
And you had Crew Chief Jake Elder, who knows how to put cars together.
That was bad.
Yeah.
Because Jack hired him to help us out or whatever.
And so we went to Atlanta to test a cup car and the car just pushed like crazy.
Front-ends on them old Buicks.
He didn't go out like this.
It's flat.
It's flat.
Yeah, yeah, didn't have a good arrow.
I told Jake, I said, Jake, we need to move some weight around.
Put me 75 pounds on the left rear.
And we didn't come down here to test weight.
I said, you want to go face, don't you?
He finally said, well, I don't care if I put the weight on the roof.
Go ahead and do it.
We then picked the car up way up, I think a qualified third down there.
And of course, won the race too.
And I was tickled for Jack, baby, because he was on his way out of racing.
He is another good man.
Earnhardt right there on the rear deck.
Lit of the Morgan Shepherd car.
Earnhardt looks to the inside off turn two.
Shepherd says, uh-uh, you're not getting that groove.
They'll come single file off the corner.
It may be whoever can go lowest through the turns is going to be the one who wins it.
Here's Shepherd.
They come in high.
They drop down to the white line.
And Earnhardt is on the flat part of the racetrack.
Slides back up.
He could be in trouble if he hits that too hard.
Earnhardt somewhat out of shape as he really tries to cut the corner.
He can't get the jump off the turn.
Shepherd leads by a car length on the back stretch.
Shepherd coming down the back stretch.
High entrance into turn three.
Here he is.
This is the last chance.
Morgan Shepherd hanging on tight.
Earnhardt is loose trying to get way down underneath Morgan Shepherd.
Dale Earnhardt brings it right to the bottom of the racetrack.
Can't do anything.
The car slips up a little bit.
And Morgan Shepherd is going to get his biggest win ever.
As he wins the Motorcraft 500, a couple of car lengths ahead of Dale Earnhardt.
Well, there's a lot of hugging and screaming and yelling down here.
You can hear of the jubilation in the background.
Jack Bebe.
Jack, congratulations partner.
Congratulations on a win.
That's great with Jake and Morgan and Ducky and Steve and Toucan and all the boys and a pit.
That's been great.
Boy, what a super run.
I know it has to be a special feeling.
Your first Winston Cup super speedway victory.
Well, you know, I'd like to thank God.
I tell you, I just, I don't even know what to say.
You know, this just really worked great all day.
Jake and I communicated and the car was working great there at the end.
You felt when you went into this year with this opportunity in the Jack Bebe car
that you would be in victory lane.
I felt it, but you know, feeling it and it happening, that's two different things.
I told Jack and Emma that I felt like we could win at least five races or so.
Yeah, that was a fantastic day.
I was the, you know, unfortunately, Dad runs second.
He was in that Wrangler car behind you.
We were pulling for Dad that day, but I remember your emotion out at the car in Victory Lane.
You had won at Martinsville in 1981, but then had all these moments of uncertainty
and trying to find an opportunity.
You get this chance to drive Jack's car and it wasn't a top five car on the regular.
You know, they were a team that was kind of struggling.
And to your point, Jack Bebe was on his way out of the sport, but that weekend,
that was a fast race car and you drove it incredibly to be able to pick up a win there.
And Atlanta was a great track for you beyond that.
You always ran good.
Whatever reason it was.
I like racing there all the time.
When you went there with Bud Moore, Wood Brothers, you always seemed to be a contender.
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You want a lot of Bush races around this time as well.
You want a lot of races through 84, 85 and 86.
You won four races in your own car that you worked on and prepared
at Martinsville, Bristol, Dover, Rockingham.
And then you get this opportunity.
I think, you know, coming off of the win with Jack Bebe in Atlanta,
you're hired to race for King Racing,
which is Kenny Bernstein's famous Quaker State Buick.
And so this could have been an old wheel at the time, but it was 1987.
You finished second in the Coke 600, got the pole at Martinsville.
Martinsville, a great track for you.
You always were able to find speed there.
17th in the points.
It was a relatively new team.
They had a lot of, you know, a lot of growing pains.
What do you recall of working with Kenny Bernstein and the Quaker State car?
Was it a struggle?
I talked to him at the first year and he never talked to him again.
Larry McRinnells, he said, you know,
because he was looking to hire other drivers,
but he said Kenny needs to make up to Morgan and that didn't work
and wasn't going to work because he talked to people that
knows about the cars and all that.
And it's like, uh, uh, Jake was, Jake was good for a,
you know, a guy that hadn't raced much.
A young guy.
But he was tough with a veteran.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When dad and Jake would get together, they would butt heads.
They'd hit like two hammers because, you know, to your point,
dad knew were probably very similar.
You knew what you wanted in the car.
You knew when the car did push or when it was loose,
you knew what change you wanted to make.
And Jake also had a change he wanted to make.
And maybe those weren't the same thing.
Dad and Jake, I remember Jake worked on dad's Bush car
very short period of time in the middle of 19, I think it was 86.
Went to Charlotte.
They're out there about to lap the field.
They're dominating in this damn, in this, uh, in this Nova dad had,
and, uh, might have been a Pontiac Ventura at the time, but he's dominating the race.
But the whole time him and Jake are cussing at each other, fighting on the radio about
whether to change four tires, two tires, what are they going to do on the next pit stop?
What adjustment are they going to make?
They could not, not, they could not settle in and just realize they got the race
one.
They drive it away from everybody, but they fought all the way to the finish line.
I wonder if Jake, you know, Jake was a suitcase.
Jake, he would get up in the middle of the season and just leave teams, just, you know,
you know, have silly disputes and just say, I'm fine.
It was a mess.
Yeah.
I'll get up and I'll go somewhere else.
So racing with Kenny Bernstein was a short lived operation.
You only were there for the first one.
One year there and, uh, he, uh, I don't know why you would never talk to your driver.
Did you have a good relationship with Larry MacRinalds?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Larry and I have been friends for quite a few years.
Yeah.
After you drove for King Racing in 1987, you were in several cars in 1988.
Mach 1, remember that team, Ray Mach, Tom Winkle.
That was a, that was an interesting deal.
The Tom Winkle car, man.
I remember watching that car when you weren't in it.
I think, uh, Solder or a couple of the guys, Rodney Combs, maybe drove it.
That car ran back in the back of the field, um, but you would get in it every night.
You know, you would get in that AC Delco, that red, white and blue 97 Buick and, uh,
you'd find speed in it.
You'd find, you'd figure out how to get it to go fast.
You filled in for Harry Gantt when he was injured.
You filled in for Neil Bonnet when he was injured.
Bonnet was, um, I believe at the time, driving for the Wood Brothers.
So that might be the first opportunity for you to have the opportunity to drive their car.
You got Poles at Richmond, Pocono, best finish of second at Dover.
You'd finally, you'd win the final Bush race of your career in 1988 at IRP.
If I'm not mistaken, I think Dad wrecked out with Michael Wattrip in that race,
or maybe Tommy Houston.
I remember going to that race.
You won the 1988 Christmas 500 held in Australia.
I know a few people that went over to make those trips to run at the Calder Park Thunderdome.
What was it like to go to Australia?
I mean, it must have been amazing.
Never been there until that.
Yep.
And when was landing?
Landing the plane.
Yeah.
When it was landing.
When it was just terrible.
So anyway, I'd go go to the racetrack and they said, did you bring your roller skates?
Yeah.
I said no.
That's the only track I hadn't gone my skates with me.
But what was the deal with roller skating?
There's a lot of videos of you out on the internet skating around the pits and so forth
at all these different tracks over the years.
Well, the roller skating is good for your balance.
And it was a way of getting exercise.
And it was really paid off for me, you know, because that's something I love to do.
Yeah.
Did you go to the rink, the local rink?
Yeah, some.
We had one in Canapas.
My mom used to take us when I was 656 years old and I remember skating.
And I just took my girls to the same roller skating rink in Canapas, North Carolina.
So daddy and my mom lives on V8 Street, Vietnestan Street in Canapas and the shops
all right there in the roller skating rink, about five blocks away.
But I remember when I lived with my mom, she used to take us to this roller skating rink.
I can't believe it.
The damn place is still there.
Still going.
Looks the same.
Still got that orange shag carpet on the wall.
I mean, it ain't changed at all.
And we went over there with our girls to see if they could figure out how to roller skate
last year.
And now they got a couple sets of skates and they get out.
They got us a couple sets of roller skates now and they roll skating the driveway.
But that was a big deal to see Morgan out on the Pit Road
roller skating.
And I think a lot of people enjoy seeing those videos.
Yes, the rain would come or whatever.
I remember up at.
Yeah, you would roller skate during rain delays.
Yeah.
Like in the middle of the race.
Yeah.
Well, is that a way to kind of keep your mind loose?
Yes.
Did the other drivers ever give you a hard time?
No.
Nobody but but aren't hard.
My dad?
Yeah.
What do you say?
He just said, I believe this was that rich one.
This ain't no damn roller skating rink.
That's all right.
Did you and dad have a decent relationship?
You can be honest.
We had this one.
But y'all raced a lot against each other.
But, you know, we didn't ever really, you know, didn't spend time together.
Yeah.
The biggest thing is was leaving Richmond Raceway.
And I had my electric shaver going down the road and he pulled up.
He said, can I borrow that?
So I threw it over in his car.
That's pretty funny.
After 88, you would go run full time for Ray Mock in the 75 car replacing Neil Bond.
It actually finished 13th in points.
You took over the Budmore 15 in 1990.
One point during this season, you were leading the point standings.
You got ended up.
I mean, there was a real point in this season when you had a shot to win the title.
You got your third cup career win in Atlanta and you finished fifth overall in the season
point standings.
You returned to Budmore's program in 91, but you dropped to 12th.
Do you know, you know, kind of why things were so different the second year with Bud?
Because y'all, again, in 1990, you looked like a team that was challenging for a championship
and the next season things just couldn't.
When I signed up, re-signed with him, I remember I was laying on a sofa in my motorhome.
I was laying on the bed and so I told him when he was asking about driving for him again,
I said, you know, you told me you was going to build a new car.
You ain't built a new car.
So you had a tough second year with Bud and decided it was time to move on and you went to
the Wood Brothers in 1992.
You finished second in the Daytona 500.
You always ran good at Daytona and Talladega with the Wood Brothers.
You had a second at Watkins Glen, 14th in points and you stuck with them in 93.
Y'all improved.
You won again in Atlanta, third race there and your final cup career win.
51 years old, four months and 27 days.
You were seventh in the points.
You had 16 top tens in 1994.
Runner up runs at Atlanta Charlotte, sixth in the season points.
I mean, things are going really good.
Back with the Wood Brothers again for another season in 95.
But at the end of the season, they would get Michael Walter to come in the car.
You would run your final full cup season in 96 with Butch Mock
and you drove for a lot of different teams after that in 97.
From that point on, Morgan, you started running a couple of races in your own car, Shepard Racing.
You had an insurance company lined up to fund the team.
You spent over $800,000 of your own money to get the equipment and all that and the sponsor
falls through. You lost on the investment and then those financial issues made things difficult
really for many, many years.
You kind of were sitting in a, you'd always been successful at running your own outfit.
You had so many great races and wins in the Bush series running your own car.
How devastating was that to have that situation not pan out the way you'd hoped
in the Cup series trying to run your own outfit?
Yeah, I hired people on a promise and it didn't work out. I told him, made the deal that it's fine
because I knew they had some stuff they were working on. I would be overseeing everything
for his cars. Anyhow, he came to Rockingham and brought a car down there. I said, what are you
doing? Because I had her other car that looked after her. Anyway, he says, get on that thing to
drive it. So I got in, I sat down, pulled on the stern wheel, the whole stern shaft, everything
come out. And the shocks he had them were like, this is your shocks. It come over and got straight
with this, which shocks are very, very important. So finally, he said, I don't care what you do
with shocks, put them. So I did weld everything up and got it going. I don't remember where we
finished out there, but it wasn't where we was headed.
Back in 2004, you had owned a Cup team. You made your 500 start at New Hampshire.
And I remember you coming out to the racetrack with your car and trying to make races and
kind of had a tough time getting to the racetrack. You didn't have a lot of financial support with
your car, but you were there. What is the motivation? You've driven winning cars. You've had this
opportunity in the 80s with some great race teams and you've won races. 20 years later, 2004,
what's the motivation to bring that car, that green number 89, out to the racetrack and try to
make these cup races? Knowing that you're going to be a hard work. You're going to do a lot of it
yourself and you're not going to have a car that's competitive enough to win. What's the
motivation? Why were you still doing this? Well, it's kind of like when I quit drinking there.
And one of the guys in Combine said that you're not going to make it this way,
but I proved them wrong. You're stubborn. Yep. It's part of it. I'm just glad I could be a part of
it. Yeah. Well, you've had a pretty incredible career as a race car driver. You talked earlier
today about the Morgan Shepherd Charitable Fund. I worked on that for 40 years
assisting needy people in Virginia, in the Virginia mountain area.
And that's a program you're still passionate about today. Yep. We're going to have a
special that my wife and my daughter, the Morgan Shepherd Charity, I found that, you know,
there's people that believe, you know, in me. And, you know, if I didn't have this seat,
really, it really doesn't mean anything. I'm so glad that, you know, we're in
something here that we can speak out and give people something to go for.
Well, it's pretty incredible. You're still passionate about that 40 years,
the Morgan Shepherd Charitable Fund, founded in 1986, right as you were starting to
get into your cup career. Man, it's been a lot of fun talking to you. I've always enjoyed,
you know, I've always enjoyed watching races and watching some of the events and
going out as a kid in the 80s, especially around the early 80s and going to it. I loved going to
all of the Bush races because dad had a car that we built our car. I knew the mechanics on that car.
They were my family, my uncles. I knew the car that you had, that you built it. You were in control
of it. All the cars that everybody brought to those races, Jack Ingram, Sam Ard, all those guys
had their hands on those vehicles. And that was a very, very special time as a kid to grow up
and watch all of y'all go to battle every Saturday. I enjoyed watching your cup career as well,
but my fondest memories personally of you is when you drive your own cars in the Bush series.
You had a ton of success and won a lot of races. And I just appreciate you coming out today,
giving us some time. I know you've got a lot of things going on and I know you've got other
places you could be. And so I appreciate you giving us a chance to talk to you today.
Well, I appreciate y'all for what you do in racing and we've got to keep making it stronger,
you know. Oh yeah. Yeah. Do you still watch? You still watch some races? Yeah. Yeah. That's
good to hear. Well, we appreciate it, man. My birthday is the 10th of October, so we'll celebrate.
Your 10th? October? Yeah, we'll celebrate together. Mine's the 12th. Yes, sir. Well, hey,
enjoy your summer. Thanks for coming around. People are going to enjoy hearing from you.
I appreciate you, buddy. Thank you so much. You bet. Morgan Shepherd on the Dell Junior Download.
All right, so that's Morgan Shepherd on the Dell Junior Download. Morgan,
I can imagine what people might take from the interview.
I only regret that I didn't have Morgan on here sooner. And as his disease continues to challenge
him, I feel like I should have gotten him in this studio years ago because this guy's career
is incredible. Morgan was a guy that made a lot of decisions and I've got a lot of questions about
some of the things that he chose, such as the disagreement with Cliff Stewart to
leave that operation after Talladega. I mean, they just won their first race
together at Martinsville a couple weeks before. While Morgan did his best to give us the best
account, he could. There's a lot of things in there. There's a lot of moments, different
experiences with different owners driving for Roger Hamby, driving Cecil Gordon's car. There's
real detail there, but that just isn't a real possibility. But Morgan kind of got a
late start at it. Shoot in 86, I suppose, when he won at Atlanta. He's 51 years old, right? So
I think I have that correct. In 86, yeah, 44 at 86. Still,
it's guys where a lot of drivers have peaked at that. A lot of drivers are starting to nose over.
This guy's finally getting his opportunities in decent race cars and he would go on to have some
really successful years in his late 40s, early 50s. So Morgan was always kind of a mystery to me
because, you know, like I said, there's an example of him leaving Cliff's search team in the middle
of the season and bounce around and the Bernstein thing didn't work out and he moves on to another
team. But I mean, hey, he didn't like where he was. He didn't like what deal was. He didn't like
something about it and not exactly the same, but kind of similar to Jake Elder, like he would.
If he didn't want to be there, he didn't like it. He'd go do his own thing.
And he was running his own car on Saturdays and winning races. And I think that strengthened
his resolve to only be in positions and places where he felt like his input was being valued.
And you could tell by the conversations that we had with him today that he was a person that was
going to say, I want to change left for spring. I want to put this nose weight in it. I want to do
X, Y, and Z to the car. And if the crew chief wasn't open to that suggestion, it would be problematic.
Another guy who was somewhat, somewhat similar was Bobby Allison. Now, Bobby was a much more
successful race car driver in a couple level. Won a lot of races, but Bobby would get frustrated
and get out of Junior Johnson's car just as Kale Yarbrough would get in and win three straight
championships. You know, Bobby would move on from one team to the next.
And he would get out of cars in the middle of the season, drive his own cars. Did that with
Stavall brothers or, or the Bill Gardner and they're those folks in the middle of the season.
He got frustrated with Greg Saxon, the two car team, I think in the middle of 85 and
86. And the next thing you know, he's, he's bringing his own Miller sponsored car to the
racetrack racing out of his own shop. And I always, I'm always fascinated by those guys.
And I wanted to ask Morgan about that. And you know, because they, those kind of guys that
would just like get so frustrated that they'd quit in the middle of the season or just leave the team
and go jobless, you know, patchwork seasons together with back marker cars. They'd rather
do that than, than to swallow their pride or try to patch, you know, fix up the, fix the
relationship with the, with the employer. They have always kind of fascinated with guys like
there's a good story in there somewhere. But a lot of times these guys are not exactly ready to throw
that individual under the bus, you know, even in all these years later, what good does it do to
to place blame point fingers? But anyways, Morgan was an interesting dude. There's all the videos
of him roller skating around on pit road. And I'm going to tell you right now,
he was the only one doing that. And when he would go out there and do that, you know, he'd get
some strange looks, but he was him. And he, he didn't apologize for being who he was.
And I remember him always being pretty religious talking about that. So it was interesting to
touch on that and get some detail of when he made that change in his life. He saw something that
he didn't like about himself and made a change and probably a good thing because he probably
was right about the path he was on. But just interesting. Glad we got him in here. 85 years
old in October, pretty incredible. I've always felt like if I could get to 80, I'd be pretty happy.
I think anything beyond that really is extra. Thank you for joining us today, y'all in the
Arby's studio. Don't forget about Arby's new meet and three box, get more meal for your money at Arby's.
We have the meats. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X and TikTok.
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