Eleven After Nine | A Porsche Culture Podcast Dec 23, 2025

Nathan Merz - What’s Hot And What’s Dead In The Porsche Market

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Car

Porsche 911

The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many people admire for its speed and style. It's been around for a long time and is loved by car enthusiasts.

Car

The Toyota Prius is a car that uses both gasoline and electricity to help save on fuel and reduce pollution. It's known for being very efficient and is often chosen by people who want to be more environmentally friendly.

Term

odometer

An odometer is a tool in cars that shows how far the car has driven. It helps buyers know if a car has been used a lot or just a little.

Car

Tesla S Model

The Tesla Model S is a fancy electric car that doesn't need gas to run. It's known for being fast, having a long battery life, and lots of cool tech features that make driving easier.

Car

Porsche 911 GT3

The Porsche 911 GT3 is a super sporty version of the regular 911 car, built for people who love to drive fast and enjoy racing. It's famous for being really fun to drive and has a strong engine that makes it very exciting.

Term

carbon buckets

Carbon buckets are special car seats made from a strong, lightweight material called carbon fiber. They're designed to help keep you in place during fast driving but can be less comfortable than regular seats.

Car

Chevrolet Tahoe

The Chevrolet Tahoe is a big SUV that can carry a lot of people and stuff. It's great for families and trips because it has plenty of space and can pull heavy things like trailers.

Term

differential

A differential is a part of a car that helps the wheels turn at different speeds, especially when going around corners. This is important so that the car can handle turns smoothly without skidding.

Car

Honda Odyssey

The Honda Odyssey is a type of family car called a minivan. It's designed to be roomy and comfortable for carrying kids and their gear.

Company

Bring a Trailer

Bring a Trailer is a website where people can buy and sell classic cars through auctions. It has changed how collectors find and purchase cars, making it easier but also more competitive.

Car

Hyundai Venues

The Hyundai Venue is a small SUV that's easy to drive and park, making it great for city life. It's affordable and has a lot of useful features for everyday use.

Car

Porsche Cayenne

The Porsche Cayenne is a fancy SUV made by Porsche. It's known for being fast and comfortable, with lots of luxury features.

Concept

late model Porsche

'Late model Porsche' means newer Porsche cars that are made recently. They usually have better technology and performance compared to older models.

Term

MSRP

MSRP means Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. It's the price that the car maker suggests the car should be sold for, helping buyers know what to expect.

Term

classic Porsche

Classic Porsche means older Porsche cars that people love to collect. They're usually at least 20 years old and can be worth a lot of money.

Concept

G model

The G model is a term used for a specific generation of Porsche 911 cars made from the mid-70s to the late 80s. They have a unique style and are popular among collectors.

Term

F-body car

F-body cars are a type of sports car made by General Motors, including models like the Camaro and Firebird. They are popular for their performance and sporty looks.

Term

air-cooled 911

Air-cooled 911s are older versions of the Porsche 911 that didn't use water to cool the engine. Instead, they relied on air, which gives them a different feel and sound compared to newer models.

Car

Porsche 928S

The Porsche 928 is a sports car made by Porsche that was built from 1978 to 1995. It has a unique look and is different from the more famous Porsche 911 because its engine is in the front of the car.

Car

Porsche 968

The Porsche 968 is a sporty car made by Porsche in the early 1990s. It's known for being fun to drive and has a unique design that appeals to car lovers.

Car

Porsche 944S

The Porsche 944 is a sporty car made by Porsche in the '80s and early '90s. It's known for being fun to drive and is often more affordable than other Porsche models, which makes it popular with car fans.

Term

transaxle

A transaxle is a part of a car that helps transfer power from the engine to the wheels. It combines several functions, making it easier to fit in smaller cars.

Car

Porsche 914S

The Porsche 914 is a classic sports car from the 1970s that has a cool design and is often seen as a more affordable way to own a Porsche. People are starting to like it more and more as a collector's item.

Car

Porsche 356

The Porsche 356 is an early sports car made by Porsche, known for its classic design and performance. It was one of the first cars made by the company after World War II.

Term

numbers matching

'Numbers matching' means that the important parts of the car are the same as when it was first made. This can make the car more valuable to collectors.

Term

hot-rod

A hot-rod is a car that has been changed to make it go faster and look cooler. People often take older cars and add powerful engines and other upgrades to make them special.

Car

Abarth 4-Type

Abarth is a brand that makes sporty cars, often based on Fiat designs. The 4-Type is one of their models, known for being fun to drive and having a unique style.

Term

disc brakes

Disc brakes are a part of a car's braking system that helps it stop. They work by pressing pads against a flat disc to create friction, which slows the car down.

Concept

Porsche culture

Porsche culture is about the love and appreciation for Porsche cars. It includes fans who enjoy talking about the cars, attending events, and sharing their passion for the brand.

Term

pre-A

'Pre-A' means the very first versions of the Porsche 356 before they became known as the 'A' series. These cars are special because they are some of the earliest Porsches made.

Car

Porsche Boxster

The Porsche Boxster is a convertible sports car that lets you drive with the top down. It's known for being fun to drive and is a more affordable option for people who want a Porsche.

Car

Porsche Cayman

The Porsche Cayman R is a special version of the Cayman sports car that is lighter and faster. It has a stronger engine and better handling, making it a favorite among driving enthusiasts.

Term

horsepower

Horsepower tells you how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and more powerful the car can be.

Term

normally aspirated

Normally aspirated means the engine gets air naturally, without any extra help from devices like turbochargers. This usually gives a different driving feel compared to turbocharged engines.

Term

hydraulic steering

Hydraulic steering helps you turn the steering wheel more easily by using fluid pressure. This makes steering smoother and requires less effort.

Car

Porsche 718 Cayman GT4

The Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is a sporty two-door car that's built for people who love to drive fast on tracks. It's known for being really fun to handle and has a powerful engine.

Car

Porsche Panamera

The Porsche Panamera is a fancy four-door car that drives like a sports car but has the comfort of a luxury vehicle. It's great for people who want speed and style in a car they can use every day.

Car

Porsche 981

The Porsche 981 is a type of sports car made by Porsche, specifically the Boxster and Cayman models that were built between 2012 and 2016. They are known for being fun to drive and having a unique engine placement.

Car

Porsche 718 Boxster Spyder

The Porsche 718 Boxster Spyder is a sporty convertible car that is fun to drive and has a powerful engine. It's designed for enthusiasts who enjoy open-top driving.

Car

Chevrolet Corvette

The Chevrolet Corvette is a famous sports car from America that is known for being fast and stylish. It's popular among car enthusiasts and is seen as a good value for a high-performance car.

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I'm slash terms for more. Welcome to Renthusiest Radio, the podcast where Will and Derek navigate the winding roads of Portia Obsession, exploring the good and the bad of Portia ownership. Grab your favorite beverage. Pull up a chair and join us. Renthusiest Radio because life's too short not to talk about portions. Welcome to Renthusiest Radio, I'm Will. And I'm Derek.

And I'm Nathan. And today's episode is very exciting to me. We are joined by who I would consider to be one of my good personal friends at this point, Nathan Murs. And so if you've been in this world of Portia, for any length of time, you've likely tripped over his content, his expertise, his knowledge, and in this episode, you know, we were kicking around like how to how to introduce this episode in a way to kind of get people interested early on and we agree it's going to be a little bit squishy. I think we're going to have a freewheeling episode.

So today, but the theme is going to be like realistic expectations about Portia ownership and maybe market realities. And so, you know, Nathan, I mean, Nathan, how many how many cars do you think you've personally owned and seen people own like a thousand two thousand three thousand.

Oh, that's a good question. But before we jump into that, I have to start with it. You introduced me as a friend and last time you had me on, I came at you kind of hard. I'm not going to lie. I got some people like, man, you you really came at him hard. And I wanted to tell people I said, you know, in person, I would come at him that hard. And sometimes those don't translate if people don't know the relationship. And so for those who watch that episode, my sincere apologies, you know, Will really had his feelings hurt. And so this time, I'm going to try to come at you a little bit more.

Or gently, you know, or the holiday season. So today should be fun. But back to your original question. I mean, I can't even tell you how many cars I've personally owned. I can't tell you how many cars I've sold that I've been about my first 911 or just a teenager. I've been kind of in these cars really ever since. And I buy what I love. And about 20 years ago, I, you know, made this my full time profession. And so at any given moment, if you come down to my shop, there's 20, 30.

40 portions there kind of coming to the door. So I've certainly had a lot of chance to drive experience and own and work on pretty much everything portions ever ever sold.

So, you know, through your own personal ownership, I guess you've learned it clearly. You've learned a lot about, you know, what the reality of owning one of these cars is like versus maybe what people think coming into the hobby.

And so that's what I wanted to hear from you today. You know, Derek and I wanted to talk a little bit about maybe some misnomers that people have prior to purchasing a car versus the realities that hidden in the face.

And I don't know about you, but you know, part of why I create the content I do is to help people understand what it's actually going to be like to buy one of these cars and live with it and own it.

And so, you know, I thought we could maybe start there and then talk a little bit about every but well, I'm not going to say everybody.

Many people's favorite topic, which is, you know, what is the portion market going to look like going into next year, 2026?

So is that a fair way to set up set the episode up?

No, I think that's great. I mean, you and I, I think one of the reasons we've done well with content to pass is we're aligned in that we have different experiences and we're coming at this from a different side of the equation.

But we both have a passion for helping people understand the cars, the product and the market.

But not to make money or not to be impressive at cars and coffee, but so they have an honest and authentic, enjoyable portion ownership experience.

The brand has brought a lot of joy into my life. And so I want to share that with others.

And particularly, oh, in the last 10 years, this portion has become like the hottest commodity in the car world.

I see a lot of people, you know, being taken advantage of and that just drives me crazy.

Not so much from the money standpoint. It's more just I want them to have a good experience.

And it's like the most basic thing I say all the time, but in order to have a good experience with brand, you got to have a good car.

You have to be knowledgeable and you also have to be willing to deal with, you know, an honest and transparent seller or at least a seller who's endeavours to do that.

I mean, certainly there's mistakes made, but so I think we're on the same page.

Okay. So let's talk about mistakes people make.

And I'd love to hear from you maybe like the top two or three mistakes you've seen people make when they decide to pick up their first car.

You know, maybe they're rushing too much or maybe they don't do their due diligence or they skip to PPI.

But you know, based on your just sheer number of transactions, you've personally done and that you've seen, I mean, talk to me about that.

I mean, I think there's a couple of big ones. I think the first one is that these are highly emotional.

Obviously, you're not buying a Prius. You're buying something that speaks to someone.

And so, you know, obviously as a human being, we can behave with our rational brain and we can behave with our emotional brain.

And this does have to be some combination thereof. You know, we don't want to be so rational, otherwise we wouldn't buy one of these cars.

But I see a situation where someone will call me and they'll say, hey, I'm looking at this car. I want you to look at it, tell me what you think.

And I can just tell by their language that they're going to buy it, no matter what I say.

And so sometimes I'll say to them, I've been there.

Okay, it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

And so, what can I do to help you if you've already made up your mind?

Now, they'll tell me that they haven't made up their mind.

But I could literally tell them, hey, I'm going to send you pictures of this car at the bottom of the ocean and they'll say, oh, but the seller says it's never been in the flood.

And I'm like, well, there's the vintage in the photos. But they just, they're so emotionally caught up in it.

So I see that a lot of times, you know, they think, well, this is the last good one that'll ever exist or all.

If I don't buy one today, I'll never build up for one.

So emotionality is a big piece of this. That's one big mistake that people make.

The other mistake they make and it's closely related is they believe what they want to believe, regardless of what the facts tell them.

So, and I see this all the time. And you see this in my content, I talk about this particular classic Porsche as it relates to odometer.

So they'll look at a car. And the odometer says it's got 63,000 miles.

And in their head, they're starting to kind of question it looking at the car and the sellers a little bit evasive.

There's not much documentation. And nothing about the car would suggest it's legitimately 63,000 miles.

But when I talk to them about that and the pricing, they say, whoa, it's got 63,000 miles.

They said, well, you're just expressed some concerns. But they almost can't get off that because it's in their head.

In fact, this is one of my pet peeves. Some of the online auctions will do this.

You'll notice it. And they've gotten careful. So I'll give them their credit.

Oftentimes in that box, it'll say, you know, 63,000 miles shown or 63,000 miles on repair odometer.

But even if, for example, the seller later in their comments says, well, I actually think it's got 120 on it.

The car's worth more simply because that box says 63.

Even if it's later revealed not to be what the case is because it said, human nature, we believe what we want to believe.

Same thing with sellers. You know, sellers will have behaviors which are suspicious or should cause alarm for a buyer.

And yet a buyer will move right past them.

Yeah. It's emotion.

They want it.

The other thing is that people, the other big mistake people have is they buy for other people.

They buy a car because Nathan said this is a great car.

Will says it's a great car. Derek says it's a good car.

They're buddy at cars and coffee.

They're worried that someone's going to somehow insult their call the physical accoutrement for a male.

If they buy a car that's not cool or isn't the S model or doesn't have bucket seats, which I think is funny.

I mean, I have a customer just this week who's talking to me about selling a GT3 touring with buckets.

And I said, well, you've always told me you love the car.

I said, I love the car.

I said, but my wife refuses to ride in it and it's our touring car.

And now he ordered it new and I said, well, you expect buckets.

And he says, yeah, my wife told me not to.

And now he's stuck with the car he wants to sell because of the buckets.

But why did he buy buckets?

Because she was unreneless and everyone said, oh, you're somehow less of a man if you have sofa seats.

Man.

And this is a very successful 60 year old man and he's caught up in another people thing.

That's right.

That's right, the carbon buckets.

Will and I talk about this all the time and that, you know, what you do for value or perception versus usability and practicality

of actually enjoying the car.

Yeah, dude.

I've owned buckets in sofas.

And I got to say, sofas all day long.

Yeah, I mean, I have buckets.

Well, there's buckets in this car.

I've got probably five cars with buckets, but I've also have more cars with, you know, sofas or regular sport seats.

I also think it's fun to call them sofas.

18 ways are hardly sofas.

Again.

But you know, I want to be cool.

That's what the guys are.

I mean, they call them, you know, they call them that in Facebook groups and so I'm going to call them sofas.

Yeah.

I mean, to be derogatory, you know, I mean, that's really why they call it a sofa.

You know, it's not the front bucket seat out of your 98 Tahoe, you know, in cloth.

Meanwhile, I got to replace it.

Or I got to have that differential.

We got to get rebuilt in that nice.

Yeah.

Is it noisy?

Yeah.

Fun stuff.

But the good news is like that the shop will be all apologetic and it'll be like $1,100.

That's it.

That's what I'm doing with Smiley on the smile of my face.

Isn't that funny?

I'll look at that good looking man right there.

Hey guys.

Can you hear me now?

All right.

Yeah.

I got you now when it seems like you're, yeah, it seems like it's pacing well.

So you're good.

All right.

I have, I had to go off of my, my stupid phone.

So I'm sorry for the connection problems.

But if you can hear me, then I'm going to make my point.

Was that Nathan, you're so dead on.

When you talk about people doing things for other people are because the internet told them so.

They go on the forums and they go on the run, run list checklist.

And they say, well, I need to put buckets in my GT3.

Because if you don't, then you're not a man for value sake.

It's not worth anything.

And they do things because the internet tells them instead of for practicality.

Or usability.

And I think ultimately that's the, that is a huge thing.

But where I have such a bugaboo.

And you nailed it on the head.

So will yourself, of course, in myself having owned a lot of cars.

I get a lot of people that reach out to me and ask for advice.

And almost always, they are calling not because they want me to help them figure out what's best.

But they want validation on the decision they've already made.

And when I don't give them that, right, they immediately go, yeah, well, but what about this?

But what about this?

And you could throw as many selling and points at them as you want to prove that it's not it.

But they just want you to give them the green light, the thumbs up and say, no, you should do that.

And to the point where when people ask me now for advice, I say, listen, what did you say you want?

You wanted to Honda Odyssey meeting them?

I think you should go buy that.

I think that's great.

Go go do that.

That's great.

And it drives me nuts.

I don't give advice anymore.

Yeah.

You know, it's say it is you 100% nailed it.

What they want to do is they want you to confirm what they've already sort of made up in their own mind.

Or one of the things people want to do with me is they want to have a spar or a battle of knowledge or opinion.

Which I always refuse to get engaged in.

I say, hey, you reached out to me.

You wanted my opinion, which is worth that.

It's an opinion.

You don't have to agree with it, but I'm not going to defend it or argue about it.

You reached out to me.

And again, they just want you to say, yes, you're right.

That's the right car for you.

Even if I oftentimes don't believe it is, that's what's funny.

It's true.

Oh, sorry.

Go ahead.

Well, I'm just glad to be back.

Not frozen.

Yeah, that was weird.

So listen, a few minutes ago, Nathan, you brought up an online auction platform that shall not be named.

Derek and I did an episode recently and we talked about how the portion of the market is broken.

And of course, we alluded to bring a trailer quite a bit in that episode.

And after we got done recording that, I actually thought of you.

You and I chatted briefly.

I sent you a link to the episode.

And I think you certainly have a lot of experience with bringing a trailer.

And you know, we just talked about opinions.

I know you have some opinions on what it's done to the market.

Derek and I personally believe that it's not only disrupted,

but maybe in certain ways has ruined the market for the every man collector or the every man enthusiast.

And so I would love to hear your opinions on bringing a trailer.

And whether or not you think we were right or wrong.

I'll say it's a mix.

How about that?

So do I think it's disrupted the market?

Absolutely.

It's absolutely radically changed the market.

As we know it, as I know it as a professional, as my customers, as consumers know it,

it's radically altered everything about the space.

So for that, you're 100% correct.

How's it ruined the market?

I guess it depends on how you determine ruin.

I think it has made the market more global, more transparent.

With some caveatsers, you know, we can go into that.

And we should talk about that.

It's a very load of work.

I mean, it used to be, I guess when you mention ruin,

one thing it probably has changed is that it used to be in any given market.

Like I'm in the Seattle market.

And Seattle has always been historically a strong commercial market.

And we have a climate that's very favorable for preservation.

And so my backyard used to be rich full of these cars that,

you know, they would be listed for sale in more standard venues.

And people like myself could buy those cars.

And I wasn't competing with people all over the world to buy those cars.

What's happening now is, you know, quite a few power sellers and power dealers

and those kinds of things.

Literally employing people that just sit on their computer all day long

and are responding to anything that gets posted,

whether it be on Craigslist, Facebook, marketplace,

you know, auto trader, Instagram, whatever.

And so the opportunity for someone sitting in their little hometown

to go buy a Porsche that just popped up on a local for sale venue

has been minimized because there's a new global audience for that product.

So I don't know if that's ruined.

That's maybe just the reality of it.

The same way if you own a hardware store and P-walk at Illinois,

you now have to compete with Amazon for products.

Not just Home Depot.

And so, yeah, man, I think that's just the way of the world.

I wouldn't label it as ruined.

It's made it a little bit less fun.

I will say that.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, on the one hand,

as a person, such as myself, like it does give me access

to cool examples that I would not find local to me.

So that's the nice thing about it.

You know, when I say ruined, I mean, of course,

that's an overstatement, a little bit of sensationalizing.

But, I mean, let's just imagine the person who, you know,

they have saved and saved and saved and they've dreamed and dreamed

and they put away $100,000, okay?

And that's like all they can afford to spend.

And so they're watching an auction and they see a 9-11

that's like the perfect spec, the perfect example

what they've always dreamed of.

And we get close to $100,000 mark

and then you got some guy that's worth $10 million

that doesn't give a shit about $100,000.

And he can just come in and swoop in

and take it from that guy who's been dreaming for years.

You know, that's the kind of the hypothetical that I think of

when, you know, yeah, you're competing against people

from all over the world, but you're also competing with people

that just next level wealth potentially, you know?

That's my thinking on it.

Yeah, but I think isn't that true with anything?

I mean, you can make the argument about real estate

or, I mean, at the end of the day, our world,

we have income disparity.

I mean, we don't want to give politics to that,

but around as you're just people that have more resources

than others.

And so really what you're alluding to in the days

if you are that we mentioned is that maybe there was less information

out there, and so maybe that person

that you diligently saved up a war chest of my money

could have founded a hidden gem in their market

that maybe was truly priced below market,

but there wasn't an easy way for a seller

to maybe put that to a broad market.

That does still exist out there,

but it's fewer and farther between.

So you know what I think?

I think you're actually both right.

It's interesting because if you think about it,

I think that because we are in a global market for these cars

and people with more money can throw more money at them

and get the cars that they want against people

that might not have the same means.

That is free market, and it is what it is,

and it happens and it all levels in all industries.

But I think what Will is also saying

and I kind of agree is that when that happens,

every sale, whether it's a

cayenne manual for $130,000

because someone really wants it or fill in the blank,

that's a mark of a price point that gets sold

that goes into the world,

and then people point to that and say,

well that's what these are worth now.

And you see because people can spend the money

that they want for these cars,

and they spend more than the other guy

in maybe above market,

well then that becomes the market,

and it pulls everything up,

and a team in that might have been worth 25

is now worth 40,

9191.2 that might be worth 80 is now worth 100.

You know what I mean?

And the creep going up is probably caused

by what we're talking about.

So I think probably in this instance we're all right,

and it's just a matter of society.

Yeah, did I get it?

I won't dispute that this is just the way of the world,

the way it is, a great company,

and an amazing technology,

right place, right time,

but I'm also saying it just kind of sucks

for the guy who can't pay $120,000

for the car that used to be worth $100,000

for a big rich guy came in and decided

he'd drop an extra 20 on it.

You know what I mean?

I'm just saying that kind of sucks.

Yeah, the only other thing that I think

the ultimate salvation to this whole thing

is that, now take this for the green cell.

You know, because I'm blessed I have a bunch of cars.

And not because they're normally wealthy guy.

I probably have a lot of cars

because I bought most of my cars far enough back,

you know, in the old market days, right?

But I'm here to tell you,

like if I woke up tomorrow and someone said,

okay, your life is radically changed.

The only fun car you can have is sub $10,000.

I have a 98 boxer.

I bought for $6,000.

And this is not no bullshit.

I mean, I'm just as happy driving that car as I am.

Some of my cars that are worth $25,000.

I really, really am.

And so if a person has a budget of $10,000

because they never have a fun car, no.

Like my 986 boxer is a glorious car.

It's a base $98,000, $130,000 miles with Brock Chips

and you know, foam blowing out the vents,

although I did fix that.

So yeah, there is still cool stuff you can buy

for not that much money.

So what the rich people have,

they're crazy, paying to samples,

CXX, ridiculous.

They just got robbed by Porsche.

It's under one for some bullshit door sills

that say they're in pain.

Here we go.

We're getting lighter in here.

But that's new Porsche.

Like us old Porsche people,

we just like the cars.

We like the engineering.

We like the history.

We like all the details.

We like working on them.

Like that's what we like.

The puddle reflectors with the Porsche Crest,

you can go pound sand.

Not interested.

So anyway, there's my vent.

Well, so a couple of things Nathan,

just kind of going off what you're talking about.

Do you have any suggestions for the folks out there

that are looking for cars?

That I'm not asking you give away all your secrets.

But would you be able to,

the audience that is looking for cars

and they go on rent list or they're on marketplace?

And they're like,

I'm just not seeing the cars,

whether it's at a price range that is not inflated

or that they're just not seeing the quality of models they want.

Is there anything else out there

they can look towards where maybe they can search?

Of course, with hard work.

But where would you point them to say,

hey, maybe this is a little less traveled road

to find a car that might be of interest?

Yeah.

First of all, I don't have any secrets

in terms of where my cars come from,

where all my cars come from

is by being in this world for a long time,

authentically in the world.

I'm visible, I build community,

I build relationships with people,

and cars come my way.

I don't buy cars on the public market.

Most sellers go out and just try to be the first mover,

Johnny on the spot.

That's not how I work.

And so I'm kind of a fan of that same model for other people.

Let's say, for example, you want a G model car,

and you want a driver quality car,

you can take two events.

What you want to do is you want to build relationships.

I think relationships in that community in your area

of people that have those cars,

such as that at some point,

you have enough of a relationship,

someone gives you first opportunity to buy their car.

And it has to be authentic.

It's not, you know, like all those guys

that post on the one of my ads,

and it's all bullshit.

They're like, oh, I want to do a father's son

project.

Stop the lies.

Just stop the lies.

You know, you know, just,

but if you're authentically out there,

you're going to events,

you're meeting people,

some person who loves their car,

who it matters to them,

who gets their car.

We'll say, you know what?

I've loved it.

Will's been so passionate about this car,

you know, over the last few years,

and they call you and say, yeah,

I know I could put it on BAT,

but I don't want to be hassled,

and I know you would love the car,

and it means something to me that it will stay vocal.

Right?

Yep.

Absolutely.

That sounds polyanna,

but those people exist out there.

No, and you know what?

And especially in the Porsche world,

I think you're absolutely right.

I feel like, you know,

true, Porsche enthusiasts love

to have bring people into the brand,

and they love to share their excitement for cars

with people that are having owned

and or even driven in them.

That's why, honestly,

when you go to a car show,

it is a rarity when someone

who has that ethos

and you're looking at that car.

They'll open the door and let you get in.

Hey, go sit and see.

Tell me what you think.

You know,

and that is unheard of

with a lot of other brands.

And I think that that

that kind of feeling of community

really does spill over

where, you know,

if you're participating in certain forums

and or you're in certain groups

and they know that you have a love for a certain model,

absolutely.

Listen, I think I would do that,

and I know Will Wood,

and I know you have Nathan,

and so I think that that's really important.

So, can I ask you this?

We were just talking about the market

and maybe what

bring a trailer

or other online auction platforms

may have influence or not influence the market.

But can you give me an encapsulation

in your mind about 2025?

Like, what do you think of 25

as where the Porsche market has been

over the last 12 months?

And then you know the next question is

do you think that's going to continue

into the next year or do you think that's changing?

Okay.

I guess the funny way I've described the market

is oddly robust.

I think a lot of people

would look at just sort of our geopolitical environment

and kind of uncertainty

and some unrest in the world

and the fact that we were...

Most people would argue highly overvalued

coming out of COVID.

I think people would have anticipated the market

with a cool

and a lot of people

were talking the market is cool

but the data is not really showing that.

Now, it has cooled in certain pockets.

We can talk about that

when we talk about opportunities.

But the overall Porsche market

and this would be

late model Porsche,

classic Porsche across all genres

is surprisingly robust.

I mean, that's the best way

I would potentially describe it.

There's a whole lot of reasons

you can talk to that.

For example,

I would argue that

late model Porsche

is robust because of inflation and tariffs.

Because, for example,

with someone shopping at 991.2,

they're probably cross-shopping

at versus potentially buying a new

or very late model CPO 992.

And so, if you spec out a new 992,

you know, Cura S,

by the time you put a modic

robustions,

it's knocking on the door at $200,000.

Well, even if that 2019 991.2,

maybe the original MSRP was 135.

Historically, that car

should have been worth 80 at this point.

But now, someone's cross-shopping

at versus 200.

And they're saying,

well, I don't see 200.

So maybe this car at 125

makes some sense.

Whereas logically,

you say, well, gosh,

why is it only depreciated

10 grand in seven years?

It's not really that.

It's the comparator

with what it could be.

I think that

is what's driving up

the late model Porsche pricing.

It's just the cost of new Porsche.

For classic Porsche,

I do think it's a little bit

of this thought of,

if I don't get one now,

I'll never get one.

I think there's

that sentiment to it.

But the classic Porsche market still has

a couple of years after 2020.

You still feel like that is not

feeling of,

there's just not enough.

And if I don't get one now,

the market's going to pass me by.

Well, one of the things I consult

with people all the time

is a word, you know,

you teach your kids.

It's called patience.

But nobody has it anymore.

Right.

And so I said,

just be patient.

A good car will happen on the market.

And next thing you know,

they call me or email me

and they say,

can you shop work on this car I bought?

And they send me the car

and I'm like,

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What did you do?

They got impatient.

They just assumed

that a good car

would never happen.

I mean, I personally

go inspect anywhere

between, I don't know,

a slow week, seven or eight

and a busy week,

15 portions every single week.

And these are cars that can be bought.

So clearly,

there's cars that are going

to be on the market.

They made a lot of cars.

So I promised that

Guards Red 8532

career at Coop

with a broken auto

and 170,000 miles

is not the last one on the planet.

Yep.

That's true.

So what is moving fast

in the past year?

What are some of the models

in the Porsche lineup

that you think continue to?

I mean, we can say

appreciate from a value standpoint.

But maybe I'm a little bit more interested

in the zeitgeist of Porsche.

Like, where are people's minds moving towards

that really you see

that the market for drivers

and collectors moving towards?

Yeah.

So let's break it down

and make it really simple

because my brain is kind of small

and I don't think, you know,

not the brightest guy out there.

So we'll keep it simple.

So let's talk,

let's talk classic 9-11,

which would be through 993 era.

Right?

So 64 to 98.

And then we can talk about some submarkets

and later talk modern stuff.

But when we talk classic 9-11,

I mean, essentially,

it used to be

that the bulk of the interest

would go out 10 years ago

was either long good cars,

69 to 73,

so long wheelbase,

long good cars,

or 993s.

That was kind of the bulk of the market.

And everything else was, you know,

selling, but just not super robust.

Nowadays,

it's kind of funny.

There's almost no interest

in the long good cars,

which breaks my heart.

Well, you're not well.

I guess, well,

well, that affected old cars.

Here I got my share of passion

for early 9-11.

Those cars are very cool.

I don't get,

I mean, it used to be

10 inquiries a week

for body cars.

Now, if I get one a week,

I'm shocked.

Absolutely.

Those people

have made a wholesale commitment

to the G-model cars

with the bulk of the interest

really being the 3.2-liter cars,

more so than SCs or mid-years.

I worked to educate them on that

once we get talking about that.

But,

and then 964s

have a ton of interest

but most people have given up on them

because they feel like

the pricing is out of sight.

So they say,

oh, I would love a 964,

but I don't think

it's going to happen.

And then they

they moved to a 993,

which is so funny,

because, oh,

seven or eight years ago,

someone would call me

and they'd say,

my dream is a 993,

I might take a 964.

Now people say,

my dream is a 964,

but then I'll

settle for a 993.

I mean, what a change, right?

So all those cars,

anything G model,

964,

993 are really hot,

really, really hot.

So that goes to say,

your value,

I think your best value cars,

the 69 to 73 cars right now.

They're just being smooth.

Those were crazy hot.

Like, what happened, man?

You know, I think it really can be

summarized basically

that people moved past them

because they got too expensive.

And much the same way,

I think that's the

risk you run on the

964 market, right?

Like almost everyone who says

they want a 964 to me

tells me in the next breath

that they've given up.

And I think that happened

with the early cars.

They, you know,

if you go back five,

six years ago,

you know,

your driver quality 72T

was 125.

And a G model was 35.

Most people said,

well, I just,

I can't afford 125.

And they moved on.

The problem is now,

people still think

that driver quality T's 125

so they don't think about it.

I'm here to tell you that car

that was 125

is now 72.

And nobody's knocking down

the door to buy it.

It's true.

It's just,

it's a change.

And so I think.

You mean,

you start getting,

I mean, I've owned one,

I've owned one of those cars.

And I mean,

it started to get to a place

where I saw what,

what I bought it for,

what it became worth,

what it was delivering to me.

And it was just,

it was, it was too valuable

for what it was.

But you start talking about

the 70s, you know,

72,000 or maybe high 60s.

I mean, now I'm,

now I'm back into it.

You know, like that sounds like

it makes more sense

for what that car delivers.

So that's actually encouraging.

I mean,

I like,

I like them all.

You know?

But it's kind of with the 964.

I just don't see the money.

So I don't know that I

wouldn't necessarily give up.

I just wouldn't even start

when it comes to one of those.

And then I'm all over 9993

because I feel like even though

those are coming up,

you're getting,

the money makes sense.

You know?

Yeah.

I mean, I'm more so.

I mean, like,

take the 964,

993 comparison.

If you had to put,

you know,

my feet to the fire,

which one I,

I'm more of a 964 guy.

Although you can see

one of my 993s in the background.

I love both.

I'm a little bit more of a 964 guy.

If, however,

though, I got transported

to the 2026,

I didn't have any cars I had to buy one.

I likely wouldn't buy a 964

because what,

to me,

I would have to lay out

in terms of the absolute dollars

to get the quality that I want,

would be out of alignment

with what I think

the experience delivers

for me personally.

It might be for someone else.

That's a different.

There's only 993,

like right now,

if you want to buy a

honest driver quality

narrow-body manual coupe.

A hundred grand giver

take 15 one or the other,

will buy that car.

Not a world-class car.

Not something like that.

But at honest good car,

you could jump in and drive and use.

And so I think,

okay,

does the 993 in that format deliver

a hundred thousand dollars

of ownership and enjoyment?

In my opinion, yes.

We talk about that all the time.

We definitely say,

does a car at a certain value point

does it provide that driving experience?

You know,

and we've both agreed

the 964's just aren't there

when they're trading at $120,000

and $130,000 for a car.

I personally think that

in my mind,

an F-body car

in early 911,

long-hood car,

delivers a hundred thousand dollars

worth of driving experience personally.

And the fact that

you can get that

at what is comparatively a bargain

at $70,000 to $80,000 for a driver quality tea,

I think that I would agree with you, Nathan.

I think that's the best deal going right now.

Understanding, of course,

that that also brings with it,

you know,

all of the maintenance

and everything else

of an older 50 plus-year-old

Porsche 911,

so you have to take that into account, too.

But driving experience all day,

that's awesome.

Yeah.

And on that point, though,

I will make the argument that

I don't care what generation

air-cooled 911 you buy.

They're all going to break.

They're all going to piss you off.

They're all going to leak oil.

And,

and this is from an avowed guy.

I mean, I love the cars.

I mean, this is my life.

You know, it's that,

I guess we were talking about

having unrealistic expectations,

you know,

sometimes people think,

well, if I spend enough money

or if I buy the Holy Grail 993,

I'm not going to have problems.

Who are you kidding?

Of course, you're going to have problems with it.

That's kind of what's fun.

I mean, I hate to say it,

but,

yeah.

What models have died, Nathan?

What models are sitting

that had a lot of trajectory

and now people have just moved on,

or they're just not interested anymore?

So in the 911 space,

like we talk,

we have a lot of cars,

are fairly soft,

as our short wheelbase cars.

So those are the earliest cars,

the 64 to 68 cars.

Those two models are soft in the 911 world.

In the other world,

the 914 has died.

You know, it had a resurgence

and we started seeing some big numbers.

And I think that,

maybe not fair,

but it just, you know,

the days of people paying,

you know, $70,000 for really nice 914 2 liters,

I think, is those have come back down to $40,000 or $50,000.

No, I would argue,

a really great 914 2 liter

could deliver $50,000 for the driving.

That doesn't seem crazy to me.

Does it deliver a hundred grand?

No.

Not in my opinion.

So those have cooled off a little bit.

Most 928s have cooled off,

unless there are something really interesting,

early cars,

you know,

really nice original early cars,

the Porsche,

the GT and GTS models

with the manual are still really strong.

But any of the other stuff, you know,

early, you know,

80 to 86,

928s, the S4s,

anything that,

that haven't doesn't have a third pedal,

really saw.

Transaxle cars have cooled down a little bit too.

In fact, one of the bargains,

I think,

you probably can't see it,

but behind me,

one of my favorite cars,

I have a 968.

Abilist car.

And I frankly don't need it.

I own three transaxle cars.

So if I were being a rational man,

I would,

you know,

punch one of my transaxle cars.

But for what I could sell it for,

why would I get rid of it?

It's,

I would argue that's a car

that delivers more driving enjoyment for the dollar

than its market value.

So,

a guy like me,

if I have the space,

I just keep the car,

because I'm not selling it for,

you know,

you can buy a pretty good 968 right now.

I've seen a couple good sales of the 35 of 40,

you know, cars that we're doing say 60 at market peak.

I think that's a good car.

And that's driven,

really by the rarity

of those compared to other transaxle cars,

why they jumped up above the 928 to 944s.

They would not necessarily above 928 to 944s,

but I just,

those cars did well.

944 turbos jumped up quite a bit

as well.

I have a 944 turbo,

lovely car,

lovely, lovely car.

Those cars I think deliver,

I think in spades above their value point,

but they've cooled off as well.

You'll get the occasional like almost zero mile car,

you know, knock on the doors of six figures,

but you can buy an honest driver quality

documented 944 turbo,

you know, 40 grand.

It's a lot of car,

I think.

Well, it's looking a little suspect.

You must not be a transaxle man over there.

I'm not.

I got to say it.

I'm not.

I guess I'm an imposter.

Derek will talk about that.

You know what I'm talking about?

I said I wasn't going to come at you hard,

so I'll say this in a very kind,

warm, loving embrace.

I'm actually planning to ship my 928 out to Charleston,

in February,

and I'm going to take it to Works reunion

and I'm going to use it at the PCA Treffen event

and Hilton Head,

and then I'm going to take it to the Parade event in June

in New York.

So it'll be on the East Coast,

so we will maybe go for a drive.

We'll love to.

Maybe we'll find some warm transaxle embrace.

Yeah, you can convert me.

How about that?

Yeah, I'm going to have a 9-11 guy.

That's my primary love,

so it's not like the weird 928 guy

who won't even consider another portion.

You know?

But well, just think about how much closer

that'll bring you and I together.

When you realize I'm not crazy for 11 transaxle cars

all these years, right?

Listen.

I'm going to call it and I'm,

that's it.

That's it.

You know, Derek,

we could just throw will off the podcast

and we could rename this

the transaxle podcast.

Will could just,

you know,

even if you bought one,

he'd only keep it six weeks anyway,

so.

I don't know.

You're not wrong.

But no, no, no,

according to this lore,

according to you,

I'd want to keep it forever,

because they're so good.

They, you know what?

That's the other thing.

I mean, getting back to the mistake people make.

I always tell people a use case.

You know,

how are you planning to use the car?

And so, you know,

that's how I look at my cars.

You know, I buy cars

that have a particular use case.

And so in 920,

it has great use case.

Like last summer,

my wife and I did a three-day driving tour.

I think we did about seven or eight hundred miles

over three days

and the temperatures were

and the triple digits.

But I wanted to drive a classic Porsche.

And so there were about 60 cars

on this driving event.

And we were the only

classic car.

There was one 996,

and everything else was 991 and newer.

And here I am in my little 79-928.

But, you know, it's 100 degrees.

I think back to your video as well.

It'd be like,

I'd have to gray out the speedometer.

So I won't say how fast we were driving.

Let's just say we were using the cars

as intended.

And in my little 928,

I'm in the front of the group.

I got my air conditioning blowing cold.

My wife's in the car.

She's comfortable.

We had all our luggage

in the twisty bits,

the Y-Sack axle.

I mean, I just,

I could go on for days.

I wouldn't have been as happy

nor would my wife

like to me if we were driving,

frankly,

any of my air cooled 911s

in that environment.

None.

So.

Nathan,

350-6 is dead.

Did they go the way in 914s

in terms of value and interest?

Well, again,

you can see my little

356 in the background there.

How many 350s expand?

Listen,

I love them.

I love them to death.

But I'm just,

you don't do one years ago.

Remember?

You're sure dead.

That's a little known class.

My soul, Derek,

356.

I mean, that's 10 years ago

or something?

At least my friend.

Yeah.

So, anyway,

yeah, the three-digit market

has radically changed.

And so, what?

I feel bad for a lot of people.

They've been in that market

for a long time

because people's preferences have changed.

So, I would not say the market

is dead,

but it is significantly

cooler than it had been.

It's still probably

hotter than a lot of

segments in classic cars.

So,

almost every

podcast,

your person you

meet will

regurgitate

the same theme,

which is,

oh, the old 85-year-old guy

is dying up

and there isn't someone

who's going to replace him.

That's true,

but not true in that,

you know, like,

when I drive my 356,

I'm 50,

so I'm not 84.

I don't wear Velcro shoes.

I may one day,

but not today.

And I love that car.

Now,

who else is visually

using me

with my Velcro shoes?

Velcro poloties.

It's not a hard thing

to visualize.

Totally.

Like,

I am not a fashion guy.

I'm just,

like, authentically me,

right?

So, if they're comfortable,

I'll put my court

classics on,

and I'll wear my

Kirkland signature jeans.

I'm all about it.

God.

What are we talking about

in Kirkland jeans?

Hey,

Kirkland is my hometown

for the record.

Love that place.

Nathan's

both values.

But the younger

people

want something different

in their 356,

and maybe that

80-fuel guy did.

So, the 80-fuel guy,

he wanted a car

with perfect gaps

and perfect chrome,

and he wanted

numbers matching,

and, you know,

he wanted to be able

to take it in parking

all along,

and put his two lawn chairs

and his wife's name was

Dottie,

and they sat back there,

and that was what they did.

They had a little

wicker picnic basket.

That's great.

Guys of our generation

are younger.

They're not as interested

in that.

Now, they want more

of a ratty,

patina,

hot-rotty kind of vibe.

And so, you know,

what cars are popular

in the 356 market

would be, you know,

kind of hot-rotty cars.

Like, I'm super excited.

In a few weeks,

I'm getting a 54 pre-A

so a bent window

and kind of ivory on red

that's a hot-rot.

I mean, I could not

be more excited

to have a car in inventory

than I've had in a few

years.

Like, that car is flat,

sexy.

If you don't think so,

join the commercial.

Cool.

So, I think it's different.

The other difference is

that you used to be

in the 356 world.

Anything open

radically outperformed,

a coup.

That's not true now.

It's still true,

a little bit in terms

of values,

but that's changing.

But the interest.

So, if you were,

for example, speculating

on a 356,

please don't buy an open one.

Not a cabaret

or a roadster.

Speedsters are still,

because they're so iconic,

but I probably

still wouldn't invest.

I hate that word,

but wouldn't

deploy money

into that category.

But I would deploy

money into, like,

a kind of like that

vent window

pre-a.

Ah, like, it's ratty

and put stickers on it

and it's got

Abarth 4-Type

Exile.

And it's just,

it's killer.

So.

I love it.

And I do think that

there is such a beauty

to the early,

when I bought my 356

from you, Nathan,

I was all about

enjoying the sea

because the latest

of those generations

and this is getting a

little bit nerdy well

and I apologize.

But essentially, you know,

I wanted to try a 356

with the highest

horsepower and the

disc brakes

and all this.

Boy, I'll tell you,

as you marinate

in the Porsche culture,

you come to realize

just the beautiful lines

on an A.

And especially if you go

pre-a,

anyone who is

familiar with those cars,

take a couple of minutes

and look them up online.

The pre-a cars

have such an amazing

beauty and shape

to them.

And it's really like

driving art

and it's something

you can just

put in your garage

and salivate over it.

Oh, totally.

You know,

and the other thing

is that is a history

nerd of Porsche.

I like the idea

that like, I mean,

a 54, I mean,

this is just

in the very first years

of Porsche

producing car.

I mean, first car

of Proos in 48,

but they really

weren't serial

production until 1950.

And so, I mean,

imagine in 1954

having that car

on the road

anywhere in the US.

I mean, you were

like landing

on the road.

I mean, that was

just insane.

So, super cool.

One third

the size of any other car

on the road.

So, Nathan,

are you up for

a quick fun game?

And so,

Sure.

This kind of comes

from the fact that,

you know,

everyone's always saying,

hey, you know,

I have $50,000

and I'm going to

buy this car.

And I say to them,

well, okay,

but for that amount of money

have you considered

this model

or this model?

Because you're

in a price range

where you can play

the models, of course,

and you know,

have you open your

mind to that?

And a lot of people

become, you know,

with a lot of the blinders.

And so, it's kind of fun

to say, hey, listen,

if you have

X amount of money,

and I gave you three

choices of car,

which would you choose?

And because we have you

on the podcast, Nathan,

I'd love to play this game

with you if that's all right.

Okay. What do we got?

All right.

So, let's start

on the high end.

We're going to do

$80,000 to $120,000.

And I'm going to give you

three choices of cars

and you tell me

what you'd pick.

So, we're going to,

we're going to first go

with a

981 Boxster

Spider,

a 991.2

Carrera S.

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Whoa!

You're going to make this

hard because you actually

picked some three models.

I think very, very highly up.

So, again, going back

to my original thing.

I always want to know

what someone's use case

is going to be.

So,

and it depends on their use case

a little bit.

I'll speak to those three cars.

Because the one of those cars

that speaks to me,

the most of those three cars

is the Cayman R.

Because to me,

what I like about that car

is form factor.

The overall size of the car,

the maturity of the car,

the fact that at 330 horsepower,

it's certainly not a slow car,

but it's not over the top.

It's normally aspirated.

It's hydraulic steering.

It's limited production.

It's just a pretty

elemental car as Porsche

means to me personally.

Now, if someone's use cases,

they were going to stack on a lot

more miles.

They were doing big road trips

and that kind of thing,

I might not point that direction.

If they were going to do more,

you know, driving tours

and long distance

and that kind of thing

that were present

in the daily service,

the 991.2 is a very compelling case.

I love the fact that

I know this is

heretical, but with the

turbocharged motor,

it's got lots of low-end torques,

but it's a really

nice car to drive in traffic

or kind of that cut

and thrust when you're

on the interstate.

You need to, you know,

pass the Prius,

who's hiding in the left lane.

It just makes it

a very comfortable car

to live with.

And there

is close to Toyota

like reliability

as a modern Porsche

gets.

I think that's kind

of a sweet spot.

So, that's there.

And then the boxer spider,

I have a whole video

about comparing my

987 boxer spider

to a 981.

That is the best sound

that is the best sounding

modern Porsche.

Hands down.

There isn't a better

sounding car.

Like that car,

I think Will

had mentioned this in the past

between that car

and say the GT4,

which in theory

should sound the same,

but some about

that top

and you're doing an

overrun and you're

diving into a corner

and it's

bopping and burbling

and it's just like

it's best.

Yeah.

Standing ovation

for the engineer

who got that sound

directly.

And the

top is great.

It doesn't

listen to all the

naysayers that it's

complicated.

You can't figure

out that top.

You're not smart enough

to own a Porsche.

It's not that hard.

It's a no-brainer.

Yeah.

So, I don't know

the answer to your

question,

but I talked about that.

You said

Cayman R.

And so, and that's actually a

car that not too many people

really know about,

because it is a very low

volume car.

It's very niche.

It's very special.

I think when it first came

out, people mistakenly

called it a parts-bin car.

And they didn't

really know what it was.

And so,

we drove it.

You really

understood how

special it was.

And so, all right.

So, we're going to go

Cayman R for that.

And, all right.

We're going to look

at 50,000 to 80,000.

So, you don't have quite as

much money in the bank

account.

Would you choose a

981 Cayman S

with all the right

options,

not just low miles,

a 981 Cayman S,

a 997.1

Carrera S,

with the right story

and right maintenance,

or a Panamera GTS

in the right buyer's

spec.

Okay.

So, this one's

a little bit easier for me.

981.

I'll tell you.

That's a no-brainer.

And here's why.

Really.

It's, again,

it's that sweet spot

of what-a-like reliability.

Which, you know,

it's not obviously my

priority, I own a little

bit of unreliable

Porsche's, but

there's some beauty

in having a car

that, you know,

you can just

drive and enjoy

because you're not

focused on working on them.

So,

if someone asked me,

what are the known issues

on 981's?

I mean, it's like the

delaminated headlights,

the door panels that

fail.

They have that weird little

glitch at mid-throttle

that will experience

in his car where they

have a little bit of a

car.

Yeah, you know.

That's not it.

I call it a home-

That's the only one

with RPM.

They don't break.

They've held their

value well.

They're easy to work

on.

They're, yeah,

hands down.

That one's easy.

The reason,

the other cars,

I personally think that

997.1 is a beautiful

car.

I think it's a

prettier car than

997.2, with its

ridiculous ebay

tail-lipes and

oversized

side mirrors.

But there's just so much noise in the market about board scoring.

Real or imagined, although right now I have a beautiful car inventory right now that has

unbelievably perfect service history, same owner since 10,000 miles in 2007, with 49,000

miles and it's lived in California and in Washington and it's got board scoring.

That sucks.

In fact, I'm going to be listening to that car for sale and I'm just going to disclose

it. It's got board scoring, even it has no symptoms or anything, but I know it, so

I'm going to disclose it.

So that gets me, particularly if someone's got a lower budget, I don't want to stick

him with that.

And then the Panamera, it's a great car as an additive, but it just can't ever supplant

a Porsche sports car if that's what you're looking for.

If you're looking for a daily driver and you want a Porsche experience, that's a perfectly

legitimate reason to own one, but not just supplant, having a Porsche sports car.

It's hard to put them up against that.

I would agree with that.

So we're going to do the next podcast together, Nathan, on why the 981 is possibly the best

value in Porsche ownership in terms of value for dollar.

And that'll be at 45 minutes of us just completely just crazy in the 981 because I agree with

you.

The 981 came in and the 991 boxers just punch so far above their weight class for what

you pay.

I think they're fantastic, but we'll so sick of hearing me talk about my boxer, so we'll

move on to the next.

Yeah, we'll have to have one cabin on there.

We can also argue about the 988s.

Great cars, 981s.

And I think the spider is the best, period.

It's lovely.

But there's not a one I don't like, and I'm going on record too, you can hate me for

this.

I like the four cylinder cars.

I think they're fabulous.

I think they're a great value because people talk so much trash about them, but functionally

they just get the business done.

And yeah, I think they're a great value.

All right, as an aside, this is not a part of the price discussion, but I am curious

when we talk about boxers, spiders, Nathan, which do you choose?

Do you choose Will's 718 boxer spider or do you choose a 2016 boxer spider?

Neither.

I would take a 987 spider over both those.

But if I had to pick between those, I would pick the 981 spider.

Interesting.

And Will, you've owned both at this point.

Negative only one.

I've had a, well, I've had 981 spider, and I've had two 981 GT4s.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I got confused.

You've had the GT4s.

That's all right.

Okay, man, go watch more of my videos.

Okay.

What are you doing?

It's hard to keep up with Will.

Well, it's called Cardiomytham, thank you.

I'm going to rebrand it.

Well, you can come join Nathan and I on our new podcast talking about transactional cars,

and you can tell us about your collection.

How's that?

Apparently, I have a lot to learn.

All right.

30,000 to 50,000 Nathan.

Okay.

96.1, like I'm talking cable throttle, 99 arrow kit, 996.1, a 987.2, Boxster, or Cayman S,

stick, or a 987.2 manual.

Now, maybe you can tell the audience the difference between, like, at 2009, 987.2 base

model versus the 987.2 S's.

Okay.

That's an interesting mix.

So you said 30 to 50.

Is that where we're talking?

30 to 50.

Yep.

Okay.

Well, you can see in my background, this is my 996 early arrow car.

I could go on for days.

I love this car.

It's a fabulous machine.

I will go on a very small rant.

The whole 99 cable throttle early build.

That's all.

Yeah.

No.

Yeah.

Is it?

That's exactly why.

Because everyone's saying, oh, you know, it is, it's that we all want to feel a little

bit special, right?

Even me.

I mean, we all want a little niche, and so we say, well, you know, we're like Corvette

people.

You know, we're the only one built on the third Tuesday in March with the big tank, like

nobody cares.

But, and that's the thing, 996 people got picked on for so long.

So even among 996 people, they said, well, I'm a 996 person, but I'm, but I'm a more

special 996.

My car was built in February of 98.

And they say right when they were still building the 993s, I'm like, no, actually the last

day of production for the 993 was December 18, 1997.

So no, your car was not on the line with the 993.

I'm here to tell you.

Yes, I do know there were a few 996s built in 97, but that these early ones were not

built at the same time as a 993.

And people say, oh, they had the same, some of the same parts like the steering wheel.

I'm like, are you talking that ugly ass four spoke 993 steering wheel?

Please don't brag about that.

It's hideous.

It's horrible.

Come on.

You know, and then they were hand assembled, like, and that was better really because modern

Porsche is actually mostly robotically built with some hand assembly and their better

build quality than they've ever been.

So let's stop at the other day, an early 96 is wonderful if you find a wonderful example

that someone's loved and cared for.

And then it's a fabulous car, fabulous car.

So I own one.

Go one for days.

Okay.

So moving on for 30 to 50, I generally don't actually recommend this car because one of

the problems is to get a good one in today's market for a coupe, you're going to spend

35 to 40, which doesn't leave enough money in your budget.

I think to get the car up to where it should be, to really enjoy and have enough money

and reserve for some of the inevitable things that are going to come.

So, and this is more important.

If someone says me, they're spending $100,000, I don't worry about them having a reserve

because the person who can afford 100, if they hit it, $5,000 or $10,000 repair bill,

it doesn't change their work.

The guy who's spending 30, oftentimes doesn't have the reserve in his budget.

In fact, one of the funny things it doesn't make any sense is in my world, the number one

predictor of a customer is going to finance a car, which is, I maybe have five customers

of your finance a car, is always the lower the price, the higher the odds.

So I have people finance $35,000 cars, they never finance $200,000, right?

So for the lower budget person, I always think don't buy at the top of your budget, leave

money in there.

And so I don't think a 996 quite gets you there to buy the right car to start with and

also have money in reserve.

So that one in my book is out.

And then you mentioned 987.2 and then 987.2s, so what's you?

Right, because I don't think people know the magic.

I've actually been a big fan, I would buy one if I could find the right spec, but basically

obviously second generation debuted for 2009, they got the new 981 generation of motors,

which of course got rid of the concern about IMS, bearing a lot of people say it also got

rid of the risk for board scoring, that's not true, 981's canned board score.

Oh geez, you know, they do it at a lower rate, I would almost argue it's probably just

because they're newer and there's less of them, so we see less of it.

I think we're going to see it with the same frequency because it's the same engineering

challenges in terms of what the what the liners are and some of the architecture of the motor.

But they're also the base cars got a 6-speed, they got a 2.9-liter 255 horsepower motor,

they're not direct injection, so they don't carbon up, and it's a really revy car, it's

a really basic car, hydraulic steering, small form factor, great car, the only challenge

is just finding one, they didn't make a lot of them, jumping the S, I have no issue

with the S, if someone can find the right car in their budget, it's a great car, but one

of the things I don't like about those cars is once you get into an S, you get uncomfortably

close to 981 pricing.

So for example, someone said to me, okay, I'm going to spend $40,000 for a 987.2-boxster

S, I would actually probably say in my opinion a 981 even base boxers have better car for

that same dollar in terms of what it returns to you.

So if I were to actually summarize your question, 987.2 base, a 6-speed manual, I would not

suggest some of these early cars with the PDKs once they have mileage, not because there's

anything wrong dynamically with the PDK, I'm not a hater, but we are seeing some failure

on some of those early PDKs, and again, someone who's got a small budget, a PDK failure

could be potentially as expensive as an IMS failure back in the day.

So that's the concern I would have where there are some vendors starting to do some work

on the PDK, so it's not as catastrophic as it once was, but if you go to a dealer and

buy a new PDK, you're going to be knocking on the door of 20 grand.

That's a painful pill to swallow on a $30,000 car.

Now and I, of course, just want to say thank you for joining us again on this podcast.

I always come away from our conversations, much more thoughtful about the Porsche market,

and you always give me one or two models that I hadn't considered before that now I'm

going to do some research on with my little kitty on the side, maybe that's something

I want to own.

So you have our motion seal, thanks for joining us, and I'm going to really look forward

to having you on again soon.

I really appreciate you having me and again, we'll pause as I came at you so hard last

time. So hopefully I'll come across a little more kindness time.

Listen, man, you know what, it's all in good fun, and you cannot be out here creating content

and not yet used to having darts thrown at you.

So all good, all good, fun, love catching up with you as frequently as we do.

So thanks for being here, Nathan.

Absolutely.

Have a great day, guys.

And that's a wrap for this episode of Renthusiast Radio.

We hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of Porsche's with us today, and if you enjoyed

today's show, be sure to check out previous episodes and subscribe to Renthusiast Radio

wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget to leave us a review.

Your feedback helps us improve and ensures we're delivering the Porsche content you look

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Catch you on the next episode of Renthusiast Radio.

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About this episode

Nathan Merz joins Will and Derek to discuss the current state of the Porsche market, focusing on realistic expectations for ownership and common pitfalls for buyers. With insights drawn from his extensive experience, Nathan highlights emotional decision-making, the importance of due diligence, and the impact of online auction platforms on pricing. The conversation also explores which Porsche models are currently thriving and which have lost appeal, providing valuable advice for prospective buyers. Expect a candid discussion filled with personal anecdotes and market analysis.

air-cooled 911 Bring a Trailer carbon buckets classic Porsche differential disc brakes F-body car G model horsepower hot rod

Chevrolet Corvette Chevrolet Tahoe Honda Odyssey Hyundai Venue Porsche 356 Porsche 911 Porsche 914 Porsche 928 Porsche 944 Porsche 968 Porsche Boxster Porsche Cayenne Porsche Cayman Porsche Panamera Tesla Model S Toyota Prius

Original notes

Nathan Merz is back on Rennthusiast Radio with Derek and Will.

If you buy, sell, or even daydream about Porsches, this one is for you. We talk ownership reality, what people get wrong before they buy, and what the market is actually doing going into 2026. Nathan has been around more Porsches than most of us will see in a lifetime. He’s also one of the few people who will tell you the truth even if it hurts your feelings.

What we cover:

We start with the mistakes that kill Porsche ownership for first timers.

Then we get into what’s hot, what’s dead, and what still feels like a deal.

We also talk online auctions and how they changed pricing and behavior.

We finish with a fun budget game where Nathan picks the best Porsche in a few price ranges.

Topics in this episode

Emotional buying and why people call for validation, not advice

Buying for status, buckets vs “sofas”, and the spec trap

Bring a Trailer, global demand, and why local deals feel harder

2025 market recap and why pricing stayed stronger than expected

What’s moving, G body 3.2 cars, 964 demand, and the 993 “settle” trend

What cooled off, longhood interest, SWB cars, 914 values, most 928s, and transaxle pricing