Nathan Merz joins Will and Derek to discuss the current state of the Porsche market, focusing on realistic expectations for ownership and common pitfalls for buyers. With insights drawn from his extensive experience, Nathan highlights emotional decision-making, the importance of due diligence, and the impact of online auction platforms on pricing. The conversation also explores which Porsche models are currently thriving and which have lost appeal, providing valuable advice for prospective buyers. Expect a candid discussion filled with personal anecdotes and market analysis.
Nathan Merz is back on Rennthusiast Radio with Derek and Will.
If you buy, sell, or even daydream about Porsches, this one is for you. We talk ownership reality, what people get wrong before they buy, and what the market is actually doing going into 2026. Nathan has been around more Porsches than most of us will see in a lifetime. He’s also one of the few people who will tell you the truth even if it hurts your feelings.
What we cover:
We start with the mistakes that kill Porsche ownership for first timers.
Then we get into what’s hot, what’s dead, and what still feels like a deal.
We also talk online auctions and how they changed pricing and behavior.
We finish with a fun budget game where Nathan picks the best Porsche in a few price ranges.
Topics in this episode
Emotional buying and why people call for validation, not advice
Buying for status, buckets vs “sofas”, and the spec trap
Bring a Trailer, global demand, and why local deals feel harder
2025 market recap and why pricing stayed stronger than expected
What’s moving, G body 3.2 cars, 964 demand, and the 993 “settle” trend
What cooled off, longhood interest, SWB cars, 914 values, most 928s, and transaxle pricing
356 market shift, concours perfect vs driver and hot rod style builds
Where to find better cars, relationships and community beat scrolling listings
Budget game, Cayman R vs 981 Spyder vs 991.2 Carrera S, plus the $50k and $30k rounds
Risk talk, bore scoring reality, early PDK risk, and why you need reserve money
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:52 Nathan’s quick reset from last episode
03:57 The biggest buyer mistakes Nathan sees every week
07:16 Buying for other people, spec pressure, buckets vs comfort
12:07 Online auctions and how they changed the market
19:49 The underrated truth, you can still have fun under $10k
20:14 How to actually find good cars
23:48 2025 market recap and the 2026 setup
27:21 What’s hot in air cooled 911s
29:17 The best value right now, longhood 911s
34:02 What’s soft, 914, 928, transaxle market
39:29 356 market changes and what buyers want now
44:06 Budget game, $80k to $120k
48:26 $50k to $80k, why 981 keeps winning
53:09 $30k to $50k, 996 reality and 987.2 base sweet spot
59:30 Wrap up
Shout outs:
Watch Will’s channel, Rennthusiast on YouTube.
Watch Derek's channel, ElevenAfterNine on YouTube. [email protected]
Check out Nathan’s inventory and work at Columbia Valley Luxury Cars.
"...my first 911 or just a teenager. I've been kind of in these cars really ever since..."
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many people admire for its speed and style. It's been around for a long time and is loved by car enthusiasts.
The Porsche 911 is a iconic sports car that has been in production since 1964. Known for its distinctive design and rear-engine layout, it has become a symbol of performance and luxury in the automotive world.
"... highly emotional. Obviously, you're not buying a Prius. You're buying something that speaks to someone. ..."
The Toyota Prius is a car that uses both gasoline and electricity to help save on fuel and reduce pollution. It's known for being very efficient and is often chosen by people who want to be more environmentally friendly.
The Toyota Prius is a hybrid electric vehicle that has become synonymous with eco-friendly driving. It is significant for popularizing hybrid technology and is often discussed for its role in reducing carbon emissions and fuel consumption.
"...they'll look at a car. And the odometer says it's got 63,000 miles..."
An odometer is a tool in cars that shows how far the car has driven. It helps buyers know if a car has been used a lot or just a little.
An odometer is a device in a vehicle that measures the distance traveled. It is important for assessing a car's usage and potential wear, as lower mileage often indicates less wear and tear.
"...e. If they buy a car that's not cool or isn't the S model or doesn't have bucket seats, which I think is fu..."
The Tesla Model S is a fancy electric car that doesn't need gas to run. It's known for being fast, having a long battery life, and lots of cool tech features that make driving easier.
The Tesla Model S is a luxury all-electric sedan that has set benchmarks for performance, range, and technology in the electric vehicle market. It is often discussed for its innovative features, such as autopilot capabilities and over-the-air software updates.
"...ust this week who's talking to me about selling a GT3 touring with buckets. And I said, well, you've al..."
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a super sporty version of the regular 911 car, built for people who love to drive fast and enjoy racing. It's famous for being really fun to drive and has a strong engine that makes it very exciting.
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a high-performance variant of the iconic 911 sports car, designed for track enthusiasts and known for its exceptional handling and powerful engine. It is often discussed for its racing pedigree and the driving experience it offers.
"That's right, the carbon buckets. Will and I talk about this all the time and that, you know, what you do for value or perception versus usability and practicality of actually enjoying the car."
Carbon buckets are special car seats made from a strong, lightweight material called carbon fiber. They're designed to help keep you in place during fast driving but can be less comfortable than regular seats.
Carbon buckets refer to lightweight racing-style seats made from carbon fiber, designed to provide better support and reduce weight in performance cars. They often prioritize performance over comfort, making them popular in track-focused vehicles.
"...ow, it's not the front bucket seat out of your 98 Tahoe, you know, in cloth. Meanwhile, I got to replace ..."
The Chevrolet Tahoe is a big SUV that can carry a lot of people and stuff. It's great for families and trips because it has plenty of space and can pull heavy things like trailers.
The Chevrolet Tahoe is a full-size SUV known for its spacious interior, towing capacity, and rugged capability. It is often discussed for its family-friendly features and versatility as both a daily driver and a vehicle for outdoor adventures.
A differential is a part of a car that helps the wheels turn at different speeds, especially when going around corners. This is important so that the car can handle turns smoothly without skidding.
A differential is a mechanical component in a vehicle that allows the wheels to rotate at different speeds, which is essential for smooth turning. It helps distribute power from the engine to the wheels while accommodating the difference in distance each wheel travels during a turn.
"You wanted to Honda Odyssey meeting them? I think you should go buy that."
The Honda Odyssey is a type of family car called a minivan. It's designed to be roomy and comfortable for carrying kids and their gear.
The Honda Odyssey is a minivan known for its spacious interior, family-friendly features, and reliability. It's a popular choice among families for its versatility and comfort.
"And of course, we alluded to bring a trailer quite a bit in that episode. And after we got done recording that, I actually thought of you. You and I chatted briefly..."
Bring a Trailer is a website where people can buy and sell classic cars through auctions. It has changed how collectors find and purchase cars, making it easier but also more competitive.
Bring a Trailer is an online auction platform specializing in classic and enthusiast cars. It has gained popularity for its curated listings and community-driven approach, impacting the collector car market significantly.
"...w, they would be listed for sale in more standard venues. And people like myself could buy those cars."
The Hyundai Venue is a small SUV that's easy to drive and park, making it great for city life. It's affordable and has a lot of useful features for everyday use.
The Hyundai Venue is a compact SUV that offers practicality and affordability, making it a popular choice for urban drivers. It is often discussed for its features, efficiency, and value in the subcompact SUV segment.
"For example, I would argue that late model Porsche is robust because of inflation and tariffs."
'Late model Porsche' means newer Porsche cars that are made recently. They usually have better technology and performance compared to older models.
The term 'late model Porsche' typically refers to newer Porsche vehicles that incorporate advanced technology, design, and performance features. These models often benefit from the latest engineering advancements and are built to meet modern standards for safety and efficiency.
"maybe the original MSRP was 135. Historically, that car should have been worth 80 at this point."
MSRP means Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. It's the price that the car maker suggests the car should be sold for, helping buyers know what to expect.
MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price, which is the price that the manufacturer recommends for the vehicle. It serves as a guideline for both dealers and consumers.
"For classic Porsche, I do think it's a little bit of this thought of, if I don't get one now, I'll never get one."
Classic Porsche means older Porsche cars that people love to collect. They're usually at least 20 years old and can be worth a lot of money.
Classic Porsche refers to older models produced by Porsche, typically those that are at least 20 years old and have become collectible over time. These cars often have a strong enthusiast following and can appreciate significantly in value.
The G model is a term used for a specific generation of Porsche 911 cars made from the mid-70s to the late 80s. They have a unique style and are popular among collectors.
The 'G model' refers to the Porsche 911 models produced from 1974 to 1989, which includes the 911 Turbo and the 911 Carrera. This generation is known for its distinctive design and performance characteristics.
"I personally think that in my mind, an F-body car in early 911, long-hood car, delivers a hundred thousand dollars worth of driving experience personally."
F-body cars are a type of sports car made by General Motors, including models like the Camaro and Firebird. They are popular for their performance and sporty looks.
F-body cars refer to a platform used by General Motors for vehicles like the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird, primarily produced from the late 1960s to the early 2000s. These cars are known for their sporty design and performance-oriented features.
"...that I don't care what generation air-cooled 911 you buy."
Air-cooled 911s are older versions of the Porsche 911 that didn't use water to cool the engine. Instead, they relied on air, which gives them a different feel and sound compared to newer models.
The term 'air-cooled 911' refers to earlier generations of the Porsche 911 that used air cooling for their engines, as opposed to water cooling. This design is a hallmark of the classic 911 models and contributes to their unique driving characteristics.
"Most 928s have cooled off, unless there are something really interesting, early cars, you know, really nice original early cars, the Porsche, the GT and GTS models with the manual are still really strong."
The Porsche 928 is a sports car made by Porsche that was built from 1978 to 1995. It has a unique look and is different from the more famous Porsche 911 because its engine is in the front of the car.
The Porsche 928 is a luxury sports car produced by Porsche from 1978 to 1995. It was known for its distinctive design and was equipped with a front-engine layout, unlike the rear-engine 911.
"...one of my favorite cars, I have a 968. Abilist car. And I frankly don't need it."
The Porsche 968 is a sporty car made by Porsche in the early 1990s. It's known for being fun to drive and has a unique design that appeals to car lovers.
The Porsche 968 is a sports car produced by Porsche from 1992 to 1995. It is known for its balanced handling and front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout, making it a popular choice among enthusiasts.
The Porsche 944 is a sporty car made by Porsche in the '80s and early '90s. It's known for being fun to drive and is often more affordable than other Porsche models, which makes it popular with car fans.
The Porsche 944 is a sports car that was produced by Porsche from 1982 to 1991. It is known for its balanced performance and affordability compared to other Porsche models, making it a popular choice among enthusiasts.
A transaxle is a part of a car that helps transfer power from the engine to the wheels. It combines several functions, making it easier to fit in smaller cars.
A transaxle is a type of automotive transmission that combines the functions of the transmission, differential, and drive axle into a single unit. It is commonly used in front-wheel-drive vehicles and some rear-engine cars, allowing for a more compact design.
"350-6 is dead. Did they go the way in 914s in terms of value and interest?"
The Porsche 914 is a classic sports car from the 1970s that has a cool design and is often seen as a more affordable way to own a Porsche. People are starting to like it more and more as a collector's item.
The Porsche 914 is a mid-engine sports car produced in the 1970s, known for its unique design and affordability compared to other Porsche models. It is often discussed for its classic appeal and growing interest among collectors.
"you can see my little 356 in the background there."
The Porsche 356 is an early sports car made by Porsche, known for its classic design and performance. It was one of the first cars made by the company after World War II.
The Porsche 356 is a sports car that was produced by Porsche from 1948 to 1965. It is recognized as the first production automobile by the company and has a significant place in automotive history.
"...he wanted to be able to take it in parking all along, and put his two lawn chairs..."
'Numbers matching' means that the important parts of the car are the same as when it was first made. This can make the car more valuable to collectors.
'Numbers matching' refers to a vehicle where the major components, such as the engine and transmission, have the same serial numbers as those originally assigned to the car. This is often important for collectors and can significantly affect a car's value.
"...that's a hot-rod. I mean, I could not be more excited..."
A hot-rod is a car that has been changed to make it go faster and look cooler. People often take older cars and add powerful engines and other upgrades to make them special.
A hot-rod is a modified car, typically an older model, that has been enhanced for performance and speed. These modifications can include engine upgrades, weight reduction, and aesthetic changes to create a unique and powerful vehicle.
Abarth is a brand that makes sporty cars, often based on Fiat designs. The 4-Type is one of their models, known for being fun to drive and having a unique style.
The Abarth 4-Type is a model associated with the Abarth brand, known for its performance-oriented vehicles based on Fiat models. Abarth specializes in tuning and enhancing the performance of small cars, often with a sporty aesthetic.
"...disc brakes and all this. Boy, I'll tell you, as you marinate in the Porsche culture..."
Disc brakes are a part of a car's braking system that helps it stop. They work by pressing pads against a flat disc to create friction, which slows the car down.
Disc brakes are a type of braking system that uses a disc-shaped rotor and brake pads to create friction and slow down or stop a vehicle. They are known for their performance and heat dissipation compared to drum brakes.
"...as you marinate in the Porsche culture, you come to realize just the beautiful lines..."
Porsche culture is about the love and appreciation for Porsche cars. It includes fans who enjoy talking about the cars, attending events, and sharing their passion for the brand.
Porsche culture refers to the community and lifestyle surrounding Porsche enthusiasts, including appreciation for the brand's design, engineering, and history. It often involves participation in events, clubs, and discussions about Porsche vehicles.
'Pre-A' means the very first versions of the Porsche 356 before they became known as the 'A' series. These cars are special because they are some of the earliest Porsches made.
'Pre-A' refers to the early models of the Porsche 356 produced before the introduction of the 'A' series. These models are often sought after by collectors for their classic design and historical significance.
The Porsche Boxster is a convertible sports car that lets you drive with the top down. It's known for being fun to drive and is a more affordable option for people who want a Porsche.
The Porsche Boxster is a mid-engine roadster that combines sporty performance with open-top driving enjoyment. It is significant for being one of Porsche's more accessible models while still offering the brand's signature driving experience.
"...the most of those three cars is the Cayman R. Because to me, what I like about that car is form factor. The overall size of the car,..."
The Porsche Cayman R is a special version of the Cayman sports car that is lighter and faster. It has a stronger engine and better handling, making it a favorite among driving enthusiasts.
The Porsche Cayman R is a high-performance variant of the Cayman sports car, known for its lightweight design and enhanced handling capabilities. It features a more powerful engine and sportier suspension compared to the standard Cayman.
"the fact that at 330 horsepower, it's certainly not a slow car, but it's not over the top."
Horsepower tells you how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and more powerful the car can be.
Horsepower is a unit of measurement for power, commonly used to quantify the power output of engines. In automotive terms, it indicates how much work an engine can perform over time.
"but it's not over the top. It's normally aspirated."
Normally aspirated means the engine gets air naturally, without any extra help from devices like turbochargers. This usually gives a different driving feel compared to turbocharged engines.
Normally aspirated refers to an engine that relies on atmospheric pressure alone to draw air into the combustion chamber, as opposed to using a turbocharger or supercharger to force more air in.
"between that car and say the GT4, which in theory"
The Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is a sporty two-door car that's built for people who love to drive fast on tracks. It's known for being really fun to handle and has a powerful engine.
The Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is a high-performance sports coupe that offers exceptional handling and power, making it a favorite among driving enthusiasts. It is often discussed for its track-focused design and the thrilling experience it provides.
"and right maintenance, or a Panamera GTS in the right buyer's"
The Porsche Panamera is a fancy four-door car that drives like a sports car but has the comfort of a luxury vehicle. It's great for people who want speed and style in a car they can use every day.
The Porsche Panamera is a luxury four-door sedan that combines the performance of a sports car with the comfort of a luxury vehicle. It is often discussed for its versatility and the balance it strikes between everyday usability and high-performance driving.
"if someone asked me, what are the known issues on 981's? I mean, it's like the delaminated headlights, the door panels that fail."
The Porsche 981 is a type of sports car made by Porsche, specifically the Boxster and Cayman models that were built between 2012 and 2016. They are known for being fun to drive and having a unique engine placement.
The Porsche 981 refers to the generation of the Porsche Boxster and Cayman produced from 2012 to 2016. This model is known for its mid-engine layout and sporty handling.
"when we talk about boxers, spiders, Nathan, which do you choose? Do you choose Will's 718 boxer spider or do you choose a 2016 boxer spider?"
The Porsche 718 Boxster Spyder is a sporty convertible car that is fun to drive and has a powerful engine. It's designed for enthusiasts who enjoy open-top driving.
The Porsche 718 Boxster Spyder is a high-performance convertible sports car known for its lightweight design and agile handling. It features a mid-engine layout and is part of the 718 family, which includes both Boxster and Cayman models.
"... niche, and so we say, well, you know, we're like Corvette people."
The Chevrolet Corvette is a famous sports car from America that is known for being fast and stylish. It's popular among car enthusiasts and is seen as a good value for a high-performance car.
The Chevrolet Corvette is an iconic American sports car known for its performance, distinctive design, and affordability compared to other high-performance vehicles. It is often discussed for its cultural significance and its evolution over the years.
Intro
Nathan’s quick reset from last episode
The biggest buyer mistakes Nathan sees every week
Buying for other people, spec pressure, buckets vs comfort
Online auctions and how they changed the market
The underrated truth, you can still have fun under $10k
How to actually find good cars
2025 market recap and the 2026 setup
What’s hot in air cooled 911s
The best value right now, longhood 911s
What’s soft, 914, 928, transaxle market
356 market changes and what buyers want now
Budget game, $80k to $120k
$50k to $80k, why 981 keeps winning
$30k to $50k, 996 reality and 987.2 base sweet spot
Wrap up
Select text to request an explanation
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Turn supply, see CapitalOne.com slash bank, Capital One NA Member FDIC.
This holiday season, Capital One reminds you to give yourself the gift of 1.5% cashback with the Capital One quick silver card. Can I earn 1.5% cashback on birds? Birds. What if you censor true love, two turtle loves, plus a purchasing a pear tree? Sure, but why would anyone want that? The song was very convincing. Earn 1.5% cashback on all your holiday purchases with the Capital One quick silver card. What's in your wallet? Turn supply, see CapitalOne.com for details.
You know how everything's a subscription now, music, movies, even socks. I swear if I- To continue this ad, please upgrade to Premium Plus Platinum. Uh, what? No. Anyway, Blue Apron. This is a paper listen ad. Please confirm your billing. Oh, that's annoying. At least with the new Blue Apron, there's no subscription needed. Get delicious meals delivered without the weekly plan. Wait, no subscription. Keep the flavor. Ditch the subscription. Get 20% off your first two orders with code apron20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blue Apron.com.
I'm slash terms for more. Welcome to Renthusiest Radio, the podcast where Will and Derek navigate the winding roads of Portia Obsession, exploring the good and the bad of Portia ownership. Grab your favorite beverage. Pull up a chair and join us. Renthusiest Radio because life's too short not to talk about portions. Welcome to Renthusiest Radio, I'm Will. And I'm Derek.
And I'm Nathan. And today's episode is very exciting to me. We are joined by who I would consider to be one of my good personal friends at this point, Nathan Murs. And so if you've been in this world of Portia, for any length of time, you've likely tripped over his content, his expertise, his knowledge, and in this episode, you know, we were kicking around like how to how to introduce this episode in a way to kind of get people interested early on and we agree it's going to be a little bit squishy. I think we're going to have a freewheeling episode.
So today, but the theme is going to be like realistic expectations about Portia ownership and maybe market realities. And so, you know, Nathan, I mean, Nathan, how many how many cars do you think you've personally owned and seen people own like a thousand two thousand three thousand.
Oh, that's a good question. But before we jump into that, I have to start with it. You introduced me as a friend and last time you had me on, I came at you kind of hard. I'm not going to lie. I got some people like, man, you you really came at him hard. And I wanted to tell people I said, you know, in person, I would come at him that hard. And sometimes those don't translate if people don't know the relationship. And so for those who watch that episode, my sincere apologies, you know, Will really had his feelings hurt. And so this time, I'm going to try to come at you a little bit more.
Or gently, you know, or the holiday season. So today should be fun. But back to your original question. I mean, I can't even tell you how many cars I've personally owned. I can't tell you how many cars I've sold that I've been about my first 911 or just a teenager. I've been kind of in these cars really ever since. And I buy what I love. And about 20 years ago, I, you know, made this my full time profession. And so at any given moment, if you come down to my shop, there's 20, 30.
40 portions there kind of coming to the door. So I've certainly had a lot of chance to drive experience and own and work on pretty much everything portions ever ever sold.
So, you know, through your own personal ownership, I guess you've learned it clearly. You've learned a lot about, you know, what the reality of owning one of these cars is like versus maybe what people think coming into the hobby.
And so that's what I wanted to hear from you today. You know, Derek and I wanted to talk a little bit about maybe some misnomers that people have prior to purchasing a car versus the realities that hidden in the face.
And I don't know about you, but you know, part of why I create the content I do is to help people understand what it's actually going to be like to buy one of these cars and live with it and own it.
And so, you know, I thought we could maybe start there and then talk a little bit about every but well, I'm not going to say everybody.
Many people's favorite topic, which is, you know, what is the portion market going to look like going into next year, 2026?
So is that a fair way to set up set the episode up?
No, I think that's great. I mean, you and I, I think one of the reasons we've done well with content to pass is we're aligned in that we have different experiences and we're coming at this from a different side of the equation.
But we both have a passion for helping people understand the cars, the product and the market.
But not to make money or not to be impressive at cars and coffee, but so they have an honest and authentic, enjoyable portion ownership experience.
The brand has brought a lot of joy into my life. And so I want to share that with others.
And particularly, oh, in the last 10 years, this portion has become like the hottest commodity in the car world.
I see a lot of people, you know, being taken advantage of and that just drives me crazy.
Not so much from the money standpoint. It's more just I want them to have a good experience.
And it's like the most basic thing I say all the time, but in order to have a good experience with brand, you got to have a good car.
You have to be knowledgeable and you also have to be willing to deal with, you know, an honest and transparent seller or at least a seller who's endeavours to do that.
I mean, certainly there's mistakes made, but so I think we're on the same page.
Okay. So let's talk about mistakes people make.
And I'd love to hear from you maybe like the top two or three mistakes you've seen people make when they decide to pick up their first car.
You know, maybe they're rushing too much or maybe they don't do their due diligence or they skip to PPI.
But you know, based on your just sheer number of transactions, you've personally done and that you've seen, I mean, talk to me about that.
I mean, I think there's a couple of big ones. I think the first one is that these are highly emotional.
Obviously, you're not buying a Prius. You're buying something that speaks to someone.
And so, you know, obviously as a human being, we can behave with our rational brain and we can behave with our emotional brain.
And this does have to be some combination thereof. You know, we don't want to be so rational, otherwise we wouldn't buy one of these cars.
But I see a situation where someone will call me and they'll say, hey, I'm looking at this car. I want you to look at it, tell me what you think.
And I can just tell by their language that they're going to buy it, no matter what I say.
And so sometimes I'll say to them, I've been there.
Okay, it sounds like you've already made up your mind.
And so, what can I do to help you if you've already made up your mind?
Now, they'll tell me that they haven't made up their mind.
But I could literally tell them, hey, I'm going to send you pictures of this car at the bottom of the ocean and they'll say, oh, but the seller says it's never been in the flood.
And I'm like, well, there's the vintage in the photos. But they just, they're so emotionally caught up in it.
So I see that a lot of times, you know, they think, well, this is the last good one that'll ever exist or all.
If I don't buy one today, I'll never build up for one.
So emotionality is a big piece of this. That's one big mistake that people make.
The other mistake they make and it's closely related is they believe what they want to believe, regardless of what the facts tell them.
So, and I see this all the time. And you see this in my content, I talk about this particular classic Porsche as it relates to odometer.
So they'll look at a car. And the odometer says it's got 63,000 miles.
And in their head, they're starting to kind of question it looking at the car and the sellers a little bit evasive.
There's not much documentation. And nothing about the car would suggest it's legitimately 63,000 miles.
But when I talk to them about that and the pricing, they say, whoa, it's got 63,000 miles.
They said, well, you're just expressed some concerns. But they almost can't get off that because it's in their head.
In fact, this is one of my pet peeves. Some of the online auctions will do this.
You'll notice it. And they've gotten careful. So I'll give them their credit.
Oftentimes in that box, it'll say, you know, 63,000 miles shown or 63,000 miles on repair odometer.
But even if, for example, the seller later in their comments says, well, I actually think it's got 120 on it.
The car's worth more simply because that box says 63.
Even if it's later revealed not to be what the case is because it said, human nature, we believe what we want to believe.
Same thing with sellers. You know, sellers will have behaviors which are suspicious or should cause alarm for a buyer.
And yet a buyer will move right past them.
Yeah. It's emotion.
They want it.
The other thing is that people, the other big mistake people have is they buy for other people.
They buy a car because Nathan said this is a great car.
Will says it's a great car. Derek says it's a good car.
They're buddy at cars and coffee.
They're worried that someone's going to somehow insult their call the physical accoutrement for a male.
If they buy a car that's not cool or isn't the S model or doesn't have bucket seats, which I think is funny.
I mean, I have a customer just this week who's talking to me about selling a GT3 touring with buckets.
And I said, well, you've always told me you love the car.
I said, I love the car.
I said, but my wife refuses to ride in it and it's our touring car.
And now he ordered it new and I said, well, you expect buckets.
And he says, yeah, my wife told me not to.
And now he's stuck with the car he wants to sell because of the buckets.
But why did he buy buckets?
Because she was unreneless and everyone said, oh, you're somehow less of a man if you have sofa seats.
Man.
And this is a very successful 60 year old man and he's caught up in another people thing.
That's right.
That's right, the carbon buckets.
Will and I talk about this all the time and that, you know, what you do for value or perception versus usability and practicality
of actually enjoying the car.
Yeah, dude.
I've owned buckets in sofas.
And I got to say, sofas all day long.
Yeah, I mean, I have buckets.
Well, there's buckets in this car.
I've got probably five cars with buckets, but I've also have more cars with, you know, sofas or regular sport seats.
I also think it's fun to call them sofas.
18 ways are hardly sofas.
Again.
But you know, I want to be cool.
That's what the guys are.
I mean, they call them, you know, they call them that in Facebook groups and so I'm going to call them sofas.
Yeah.
I mean, to be derogatory, you know, I mean, that's really why they call it a sofa.
You know, it's not the front bucket seat out of your 98 Tahoe, you know, in cloth.
Meanwhile, I got to replace it.
Or I got to have that differential.
We got to get rebuilt in that nice.
Yeah.
Is it noisy?
Yeah.
Fun stuff.
But the good news is like that the shop will be all apologetic and it'll be like $1,100.
That's it.
That's what I'm doing with Smiley on the smile of my face.
Isn't that funny?
I'll look at that good looking man right there.
Hey guys.
Can you hear me now?
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got you now when it seems like you're, yeah, it seems like it's pacing well.
So you're good.
All right.
I have, I had to go off of my, my stupid phone.
So I'm sorry for the connection problems.
But if you can hear me, then I'm going to make my point.
Was that Nathan, you're so dead on.
When you talk about people doing things for other people are because the internet told them so.
They go on the forums and they go on the run, run list checklist.
And they say, well, I need to put buckets in my GT3.
Because if you don't, then you're not a man for value sake.
It's not worth anything.
And they do things because the internet tells them instead of for practicality.
Or usability.
And I think ultimately that's the, that is a huge thing.
But where I have such a bugaboo.
And you nailed it on the head.
So will yourself, of course, in myself having owned a lot of cars.
I get a lot of people that reach out to me and ask for advice.
And almost always, they are calling not because they want me to help them figure out what's best.
But they want validation on the decision they've already made.
And when I don't give them that, right, they immediately go, yeah, well, but what about this?
But what about this?
And you could throw as many selling and points at them as you want to prove that it's not it.
But they just want you to give them the green light, the thumbs up and say, no, you should do that.
And to the point where when people ask me now for advice, I say, listen, what did you say you want?
You wanted to Honda Odyssey meeting them?
I think you should go buy that.
I think that's great.
Go go do that.
That's great.
And it drives me nuts.
I don't give advice anymore.
Yeah.
You know, it's say it is you 100% nailed it.
What they want to do is they want you to confirm what they've already sort of made up in their own mind.
Or one of the things people want to do with me is they want to have a spar or a battle of knowledge or opinion.
Which I always refuse to get engaged in.
I say, hey, you reached out to me.
You wanted my opinion, which is worth that.
It's an opinion.
You don't have to agree with it, but I'm not going to defend it or argue about it.
You reached out to me.
And again, they just want you to say, yes, you're right.
That's the right car for you.
Even if I oftentimes don't believe it is, that's what's funny.
It's true.
It's true.
Oh, sorry.
Go ahead.
Well, I'm just glad to be back.
Not frozen.
Yeah, that was weird.
So listen, a few minutes ago, Nathan, you brought up an online auction platform that shall not be named.
Derek and I did an episode recently and we talked about how the portion of the market is broken.
And of course, we alluded to bring a trailer quite a bit in that episode.
And after we got done recording that, I actually thought of you.
You and I chatted briefly.
I sent you a link to the episode.
And I think you certainly have a lot of experience with bringing a trailer.
And you know, we just talked about opinions.
I know you have some opinions on what it's done to the market.
Derek and I personally believe that it's not only disrupted,
but maybe in certain ways has ruined the market for the every man collector or the every man enthusiast.
And so I would love to hear your opinions on bringing a trailer.
And whether or not you think we were right or wrong.
I'll say it's a mix.
How about that?
So do I think it's disrupted the market?
Absolutely.
It's absolutely radically changed the market.
As we know it, as I know it as a professional, as my customers, as consumers know it,
it's radically altered everything about the space.
So for that, you're 100% correct.
How's it ruined the market?
I guess it depends on how you determine ruin.
I think it has made the market more global, more transparent.
With some caveatsers, you know, we can go into that.
And we should talk about that.
It's a very load of work.
I mean, it used to be, I guess when you mention ruin,
one thing it probably has changed is that it used to be in any given market.
Like I'm in the Seattle market.
And Seattle has always been historically a strong commercial market.
And we have a climate that's very favorable for preservation.
And so my backyard used to be rich full of these cars that,
you know, they would be listed for sale in more standard venues.
And people like myself could buy those cars.
And I wasn't competing with people all over the world to buy those cars.
What's happening now is, you know, quite a few power sellers and power dealers
and those kinds of things.
Literally employing people that just sit on their computer all day long
and are responding to anything that gets posted,
whether it be on Craigslist, Facebook, marketplace,
you know, auto trader, Instagram, whatever.
And so the opportunity for someone sitting in their little hometown
to go buy a Porsche that just popped up on a local for sale venue
has been minimized because there's a new global audience for that product.
So I don't know if that's ruined.
That's maybe just the reality of it.
The same way if you own a hardware store and P-walk at Illinois,
you now have to compete with Amazon for products.
Not just Home Depot.
And so, yeah, man, I think that's just the way of the world.
I wouldn't label it as ruined.
It's made it a little bit less fun.
I will say that.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, on the one hand,
as a person, such as myself, like it does give me access
to cool examples that I would not find local to me.
So that's the nice thing about it.
You know, when I say ruined, I mean, of course,
that's an overstatement, a little bit of sensationalizing.
But, I mean, let's just imagine the person who, you know,
they have saved and saved and saved and they've dreamed and dreamed
and they put away $100,000, okay?
And that's like all they can afford to spend.
And so they're watching an auction and they see a 9-11
that's like the perfect spec, the perfect example
what they've always dreamed of.
And we get close to $100,000 mark
and then you got some guy that's worth $10 million
that doesn't give a shit about $100,000.
And he can just come in and swoop in
and take it from that guy who's been dreaming for years.
You know, that's the kind of the hypothetical that I think of
when, you know, yeah, you're competing against people
from all over the world, but you're also competing with people
that just next level wealth potentially, you know?
That's my thinking on it.
Yeah, but I think isn't that true with anything?
I mean, you can make the argument about real estate
or, I mean, at the end of the day, our world,
we have income disparity.
I mean, we don't want to give politics to that,
but around as you're just people that have more resources
than others.
And so really what you're alluding to in the days
if you are that we mentioned is that maybe there was less information
out there, and so maybe that person
that you diligently saved up a war chest of my money
could have founded a hidden gem in their market
that maybe was truly priced below market,
but there wasn't an easy way for a seller
to maybe put that to a broad market.
That does still exist out there,
but it's fewer and farther between.
So you know what I think?
I think you're actually both right.
It's interesting because if you think about it,
I think that because we are in a global market for these cars
and people with more money can throw more money at them
and get the cars that they want against people
that might not have the same means.
That is free market, and it is what it is,
and it happens and it all levels in all industries.
But I think what Will is also saying
and I kind of agree is that when that happens,
every sale, whether it's a
cayenne manual for $130,000
because someone really wants it or fill in the blank,
that's a mark of a price point that gets sold
that goes into the world,
and then people point to that and say,
well that's what these are worth now.
And you see because people can spend the money
that they want for these cars,
and they spend more than the other guy
in maybe above market,
well then that becomes the market,
and it pulls everything up,
and a team in that might have been worth 25
is now worth 40,
9191.2 that might be worth 80 is now worth 100.
You know what I mean?
And the creep going up is probably caused
by what we're talking about.
So I think probably in this instance we're all right,
and it's just a matter of society.
Yeah, did I get it?
I won't dispute that this is just the way of the world,
the way it is, a great company,
and an amazing technology,
right place, right time,
but I'm also saying it just kind of sucks
for the guy who can't pay $120,000
for the car that used to be worth $100,000
for a big rich guy came in and decided
he'd drop an extra 20 on it.
You know what I mean?
I'm just saying that kind of sucks.
Yeah, the only other thing that I think
the ultimate salvation to this whole thing
is that, now take this for the green cell.
You know, because I'm blessed I have a bunch of cars.
And not because they're normally wealthy guy.
I probably have a lot of cars
because I bought most of my cars far enough back,
you know, in the old market days, right?
But I'm here to tell you,
like if I woke up tomorrow and someone said,
okay, your life is radically changed.
The only fun car you can have is sub $10,000.
I have a 98 boxer.
I bought for $6,000.
And this is not no bullshit.
I mean, I'm just as happy driving that car as I am.
Some of my cars that are worth $25,000.
I really, really am.
And so if a person has a budget of $10,000
because they never have a fun car, no.
Like my 986 boxer is a glorious car.
It's a base $98,000, $130,000 miles with Brock Chips
and you know, foam blowing out the vents,
although I did fix that.
So yeah, there is still cool stuff you can buy
for not that much money.
So what the rich people have,
they're crazy, paying to samples,
CXX, ridiculous.
They just got robbed by Porsche.
It's under one for some bullshit door sills
that say they're in pain.
Here we go.
We're getting lighter in here.
But that's new Porsche.
Like us old Porsche people,
we just like the cars.
We like the engineering.
We like the history.
We like all the details.
We like working on them.
Like that's what we like.
The puddle reflectors with the Porsche Crest,
you can go pound sand.
Not interested.
So anyway, there's my vent.
Well, so a couple of things Nathan,
just kind of going off what you're talking about.
Do you have any suggestions for the folks out there
that are looking for cars?
That I'm not asking you give away all your secrets.
But would you be able to,
the audience that is looking for cars
and they go on rent list or they're on marketplace?
And they're like,
I'm just not seeing the cars,
whether it's at a price range that is not inflated
or that they're just not seeing the quality of models they want.
Is there anything else out there
they can look towards where maybe they can search?
Of course, with hard work.
But where would you point them to say,
hey, maybe this is a little less traveled road
to find a car that might be of interest?
Yeah.
First of all, I don't have any secrets
in terms of where my cars come from,
where all my cars come from
is by being in this world for a long time,
authentically in the world.
I'm visible, I build community,
I build relationships with people,
and cars come my way.
I don't buy cars on the public market.
Most sellers go out and just try to be the first mover,
Johnny on the spot.
That's not how I work.
And so I'm kind of a fan of that same model for other people.
Let's say, for example, you want a G model car,
and you want a driver quality car,
you can take two events.
What you want to do is you want to build relationships.
I think relationships in that community in your area
of people that have those cars,
such as that at some point,
you have enough of a relationship,
someone gives you first opportunity to buy their car.
And it has to be authentic.
It's not, you know, like all those guys
that post on the one of my ads,
and it's all bullshit.
They're like, oh, I want to do a father's son
project.
Stop the lies.
Just stop the lies.
You know, you know, just,
but if you're authentically out there,
you're going to events,
you're meeting people,
some person who loves their car,
who it matters to them,
who gets their car.
We'll say, you know what?
I've loved it.
Will's been so passionate about this car,
you know, over the last few years,
and they call you and say, yeah,
I know I could put it on BAT,
but I don't want to be hassled,
and I know you would love the car,
and it means something to me that it will stay vocal.
Right?
Yep.
Absolutely.
That sounds polyanna,
but those people exist out there.
No, and you know what?
And especially in the Porsche world,
I think you're absolutely right.
I feel like, you know,
true, Porsche enthusiasts love
to have bring people into the brand,
and they love to share their excitement for cars
with people that are having owned
and or even driven in them.
That's why, honestly,
when you go to a car show,
it is a rarity when someone
who has that ethos
and you're looking at that car.
They'll open the door and let you get in.
Hey, go sit and see.
Tell me what you think.
You know,
and that is unheard of
with a lot of other brands.
And I think that that
that kind of feeling of community
really does spill over
where, you know,
if you're participating in certain forums
and or you're in certain groups
and they know that you have a love for a certain model,
absolutely.
Listen, I think I would do that,
and I know Will Wood,
and I know you have Nathan,
and so I think that that's really important.
So, can I ask you this?
We were just talking about the market
and maybe what
bring a trailer
or other online auction platforms
may have influence or not influence the market.
But can you give me an encapsulation
in your mind about 2025?
Like, what do you think of 25
as where the Porsche market has been
over the last 12 months?
And then you know the next question is
do you think that's going to continue
into the next year or do you think that's changing?
Okay.
I guess the funny way I've described the market
is oddly robust.
I think a lot of people
would look at just sort of our geopolitical environment
and kind of uncertainty
and some unrest in the world
and the fact that we were...
Most people would argue highly overvalued
coming out of COVID.
I think people would have anticipated the market
with a cool
and a lot of people
were talking the market is cool
but the data is not really showing that.
Now, it has cooled in certain pockets.
We can talk about that
when we talk about opportunities.
But the overall Porsche market
and this would be
late model Porsche,
classic Porsche across all genres
is surprisingly robust.
I mean, that's the best way
I would potentially describe it.
There's a whole lot of reasons
you can talk to that.
For example,
I would argue that
late model Porsche
is robust because of inflation and tariffs.
Because, for example,
with someone shopping at 991.2,
they're probably cross-shopping
at versus potentially buying a new
or very late model CPO 992.
And so, if you spec out a new 992,
you know, Cura S,
by the time you put a modic
robustions,
it's knocking on the door at $200,000.
Well, even if that 2019 991.2,
maybe the original MSRP was 135.
Historically, that car
should have been worth 80 at this point.
But now, someone's cross-shopping
at versus 200.
And they're saying,
well, I don't see 200.
So maybe this car at 125
makes some sense.
Whereas logically,
you say, well, gosh,
why is it only depreciated
10 grand in seven years?
It's not really that.
It's the comparator
with what it could be.
I think that
is what's driving up
the late model Porsche pricing.
It's just the cost of new Porsche.
For classic Porsche,
I do think it's a little bit
of this thought of,
if I don't get one now,
I'll never get one.
I think there's
that sentiment to it.
But the classic Porsche market still has
a couple of years after 2020.
You still feel like that is not
feeling of,
there's just not enough.
And if I don't get one now,
the market's going to pass me by.
Well, one of the things I consult
with people all the time
is a word, you know,
you teach your kids.
It's called patience.
But nobody has it anymore.
Right.
And so I said,
just be patient.
A good car will happen on the market.
And next thing you know,
they call me or email me
and they say,
can you shop work on this car I bought?
And they send me the car
and I'm like,
this holiday season,
Capital One reminds you
to give yourself the gift
of 1.5% cash back
with the Capital One
quick silver car.
Can I earn 1.5% cash back on
birds?
Birds.
What if you sent your true love
to Turtle Loves
plus a project in a pear tree?
Sure.
But why would anyone want that?
The song was very convincing.
Earn 1.5% cash back on all
your holiday purchases
with the Capital One quick silver car.
What's in your wallet?
Terms apply.
See CapitalOne.com for details.
With no fees or minimums
on checking accounts,
it's no wonder
that Capital One bank guy
is so passionate
about banking with Capital One.
If he were here,
he wouldn't just tell you
about no fees or minimums.
He'd also talk about
how most Capital One cafes
are open seven days a week
to assist with your banking needs.
Yep.
Even on weekends.
It's pretty much all he talks about.
In a good way.
What's in your wallet?
Terms apply.
See CapitalOne.com slash bank.
Capital One NA member FDIC.
What did you do?
They got impatient.
They just assumed
that a good car
would never happen.
I mean, I personally
go inspect anywhere
between, I don't know,
a slow week, seven or eight
and a busy week,
15 portions every single week.
And these are cars that can be bought.
So clearly,
there's cars that are going
to be on the market.
They made a lot of cars.
So I promised that
Guards Red 8532
career at Coop
with a broken auto
and 170,000 miles
is not the last one on the planet.
Yep.
Yep.
That's true.
So what is moving fast
in the past year?
What are some of the models
in the Porsche lineup
that you think continue to?
I mean, we can say
appreciate from a value standpoint.
But maybe I'm a little bit more interested
in the zeitgeist of Porsche.
Like, where are people's minds moving towards
that really you see
that the market for drivers
and collectors moving towards?
Yeah.
So let's break it down
and make it really simple
because my brain is kind of small
and I don't think, you know,
not the brightest guy out there.
So we'll keep it simple.
So let's talk,
let's talk classic 9-11,
which would be through 993 era.
Right?
So 64 to 98.
And then we can talk about some submarkets
and later talk modern stuff.
But when we talk classic 9-11,
I mean, essentially,
it used to be
that the bulk of the interest
would go out 10 years ago
was either long good cars,
69 to 73,
so long wheelbase,
long good cars,
or 993s.
That was kind of the bulk of the market.
And everything else was, you know,
selling, but just not super robust.
Nowadays,
it's kind of funny.
There's almost no interest
in the long good cars,
which breaks my heart.
Well, you're not well.
I guess, well,
well, that affected old cars.
Here I got my share of passion
for early 9-11.
Those cars are very cool.
I don't get,
I mean, it used to be
10 inquiries a week
for body cars.
Now, if I get one a week,
I'm shocked.
Absolutely.
Those people
have made a wholesale commitment
to the G-model cars
with the bulk of the interest
really being the 3.2-liter cars,
more so than SCs or mid-years.
I worked to educate them on that
once we get talking about that.
But,
and then 964s
have a ton of interest
but most people have given up on them
because they feel like
the pricing is out of sight.
So they say,
oh, I would love a 964,
but I don't think
it's going to happen.
And then they
they moved to a 993,
which is so funny,
because, oh,
seven or eight years ago,
someone would call me
and they'd say,
my dream is a 993,
I might take a 964.
Now people say,
my dream is a 964,
but then I'll
settle for a 993.
I mean, what a change, right?
So all those cars,
anything G model,
964,
993 are really hot,
really, really hot.
So that goes to say,
your value,
I think your best value cars,
the 69 to 73 cars right now.
They're just being smooth.
Those were crazy hot.
Like, what happened, man?
You know, I think it really can be
summarized basically
that people moved past them
because they got too expensive.
And much the same way,
I think that's the
risk you run on the
964 market, right?
Like almost everyone who says
they want a 964 to me
tells me in the next breath
that they've given up.
And I think that happened
with the early cars.
They, you know,
if you go back five,
six years ago,
you know,
your driver quality 72T
was 125.
And a G model was 35.
Most people said,
well, I just,
I can't afford 125.
And they moved on.
The problem is now,
people still think
that driver quality T's 125
so they don't think about it.
I'm here to tell you that car
that was 125
is now 72.
And nobody's knocking down
the door to buy it.
It's true.
It's just,
it's a change.
And so I think.
You mean,
you start getting,
I mean, I've owned one,
I've owned one of those cars.
And I mean,
it started to get to a place
where I saw what,
what I bought it for,
what it became worth,
what it was delivering to me.
And it was just,
it was, it was too valuable
for what it was.
But you start talking about
the 70s, you know,
72,000 or maybe high 60s.
I mean, now I'm,
now I'm back into it.
You know, like that sounds like
it makes more sense
for what that car delivers.
So that's actually encouraging.
I mean,
I like,
I like them all.
You know?
But it's kind of with the 964.
I just don't see the money.
So I don't know that I
wouldn't necessarily give up.
I just wouldn't even start
when it comes to one of those.
And then I'm all over 9993
because I feel like even though
those are coming up,
you're getting,
the money makes sense.
You know?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm more so.
I mean, like,
take the 964,
993 comparison.
If you had to put,
you know,
my feet to the fire,
which one I,
I'm more of a 964 guy.
Although you can see
one of my 993s in the background.
I love both.
I'm a little bit more of a 964 guy.
If, however,
though, I got transported
to the 2026,
I didn't have any cars I had to buy one.
I likely wouldn't buy a 964
because what,
to me,
I would have to lay out
in terms of the absolute dollars
to get the quality that I want,
would be out of alignment
with what I think
the experience delivers
for me personally.
It might be for someone else.
That's a different.
There's only 993,
like right now,
if you want to buy a
honest driver quality
narrow-body manual coupe.
A hundred grand giver
take 15 one or the other,
will buy that car.
Not a world-class car.
Not something like that.
But at honest good car,
you could jump in and drive and use.
And so I think,
okay,
does the 993 in that format deliver
a hundred thousand dollars
of ownership and enjoyment?
In my opinion, yes.
We talk about that all the time.
We definitely say,
does a car at a certain value point
does it provide that driving experience?
You know,
and we've both agreed
the 964's just aren't there
when they're trading at $120,000
and $130,000 for a car.
I personally think that
in my mind,
an F-body car
in early 911,
long-hood car,
delivers a hundred thousand dollars
worth of driving experience personally.
And the fact that
you can get that
at what is comparatively a bargain
at $70,000 to $80,000 for a driver quality tea,
I think that I would agree with you, Nathan.
I think that's the best deal going right now.
Understanding, of course,
that that also brings with it,
you know,
all of the maintenance
and everything else
of an older 50 plus-year-old
Porsche 911,
so you have to take that into account, too.
But driving experience all day,
that's awesome.
Yeah.
And on that point, though,
I will make the argument that
I don't care what generation
air-cooled 911 you buy.
They're all going to break.
They're all going to piss you off.
They're all going to leak oil.
And,
and this is from an avowed guy.
I mean, I love the cars.
I mean, this is my life.
You know, it's that,
I guess we were talking about
having unrealistic expectations,
you know,
sometimes people think,
well, if I spend enough money
or if I buy the Holy Grail 993,
I'm not going to have problems.
Who are you kidding?
Of course, you're going to have problems with it.
That's kind of what's fun.
I mean, I hate to say it,
but,
yeah.
What models have died, Nathan?
What models are sitting
that had a lot of trajectory
and now people have just moved on,
or they're just not interested anymore?
So in the 911 space,
like we talk,
we have a lot of cars,
are fairly soft,
as our short wheelbase cars.
So those are the earliest cars,
the 64 to 68 cars.
Those two models are soft in the 911 world.
In the other world,
the 914 has died.
You know, it had a resurgence
and we started seeing some big numbers.
And I think that,
maybe not fair,
but it just, you know,
the days of people paying,
you know, $70,000 for really nice 914 2 liters,
I think, is those have come back down to $40,000 or $50,000.
No, I would argue,
a really great 914 2 liter
could deliver $50,000 for the driving.
That doesn't seem crazy to me.
Does it deliver a hundred grand?
No.
Not in my opinion.
So those have cooled off a little bit.
Most 928s have cooled off,
unless there are something really interesting,
early cars,
you know,
really nice original early cars,
the Porsche,
the GT and GTS models
with the manual are still really strong.
But any of the other stuff, you know,
early, you know,
80 to 86,
928s, the S4s,
anything that,
that haven't doesn't have a third pedal,
really saw.
Transaxle cars have cooled down a little bit too.
In fact, one of the bargains,
I think,
you probably can't see it,
but behind me,
one of my favorite cars,
I have a 968.
Abilist car.
And I frankly don't need it.
I own three transaxle cars.
So if I were being a rational man,
I would,
you know,
punch one of my transaxle cars.
But for what I could sell it for,
why would I get rid of it?
It's,
I would argue that's a car
that delivers more driving enjoyment for the dollar
than its market value.
So,
a guy like me,
if I have the space,
I just keep the car,
because I'm not selling it for,
you know,
you can buy a pretty good 968 right now.
I've seen a couple good sales of the 35 of 40,
you know, cars that we're doing say 60 at market peak.
I think that's a good car.
And that's driven,
really by the rarity
of those compared to other transaxle cars,
why they jumped up above the 928 to 944s.
They would not necessarily above 928 to 944s,
but I just,
those cars did well.
944 turbos jumped up quite a bit
as well.
I have a 944 turbo,
lovely car,
lovely, lovely car.
Those cars I think deliver,
I think in spades above their value point,
but they've cooled off as well.
You'll get the occasional like almost zero mile car,
you know, knock on the doors of six figures,
but you can buy an honest driver quality
documented 944 turbo,
you know, 40 grand.
It's a lot of car,
I think.
Well, it's looking a little suspect.
You must not be a transaxle man over there.
I'm not.
I got to say it.
I'm not.
I guess I'm an imposter.
Derek will talk about that.
You know what I'm talking about?
I said I wasn't going to come at you hard,
so I'll say this in a very kind,
warm, loving embrace.
I'm actually planning to ship my 928 out to Charleston,
in February,
and I'm going to take it to Works reunion
and I'm going to use it at the PCA Treffen event
and Hilton Head,
and then I'm going to take it to the Parade event in June
in New York.
So it'll be on the East Coast,
so we will maybe go for a drive.
We'll love to.
Maybe we'll find some warm transaxle embrace.
Yeah, you can convert me.
How about that?
Yeah, I'm going to have a 9-11 guy.
That's my primary love,
so it's not like the weird 928 guy
who won't even consider another portion.
You know?
But well, just think about how much closer
that'll bring you and I together.
When you realize I'm not crazy for 11 transaxle cars
all these years, right?
Listen.
I'm going to call it and I'm,
that's it.
That's it.
You know, Derek,
we could just throw will off the podcast
and we could rename this
the transaxle podcast.
Will could just,
you know,
even if you bought one,
he'd only keep it six weeks anyway,
so.
I don't know.
You're not wrong.
You're not wrong.
But no, no, no,
according to this lore,
according to you,
I'd want to keep it forever,
because they're so good.
They, you know what?
That's the other thing.
I mean, getting back to the mistake people make.
I always tell people a use case.
You know,
how are you planning to use the car?
And so, you know,
that's how I look at my cars.
You know, I buy cars
that have a particular use case.
And so in 920,
it has great use case.
Like last summer,
my wife and I did a three-day driving tour.
I think we did about seven or eight hundred miles
over three days
and the temperatures were
and the triple digits.
But I wanted to drive a classic Porsche.
And so there were about 60 cars
on this driving event.
And we were the only
classic car.
There was one 996,
and everything else was 991 and newer.
And here I am in my little 79-928.
But, you know, it's 100 degrees.
I think back to your video as well.
It'd be like,
I'd have to gray out the speedometer.
So I won't say how fast we were driving.
Let's just say we were using the cars
as intended.
And in my little 928,
I'm in the front of the group.
I got my air conditioning blowing cold.
My wife's in the car.
She's comfortable.
We had all our luggage
in the twisty bits,
the Y-Sack axle.
I mean, I just,
I could go on for days.
I wouldn't have been as happy
nor would my wife
like to me if we were driving,
frankly,
any of my air cooled 911s
in that environment.
None.
So.
Nathan,
350-6 is dead.
Did they go the way in 914s
in terms of value and interest?
Well, again,
you can see my little
356 in the background there.
How many 350s expand?
Listen,
I love them.
I love them to death.
But I'm just,
you don't do one years ago.
Remember?
You're sure dead.
That's a little known class.
My soul, Derek,
356.
I mean, that's 10 years ago
or something?
At least my friend.
Yeah.
So, anyway,
yeah, the three-digit market
has radically changed.
And so, what?
I feel bad for a lot of people.
They've been in that market
for a long time
because people's preferences have changed.
So, I would not say the market
is dead,
but it is significantly
cooler than it had been.
It's still probably
hotter than a lot of
segments in classic cars.
So,
almost every
podcast,
your person you
meet will
regurgitate
the same theme,
which is,
oh, the old 85-year-old guy
is dying up
and there isn't someone
who's going to replace him.
That's true,
but not true in that,
you know, like,
when I drive my 356,
I'm 50,
so I'm not 84.
I don't wear Velcro shoes.
I may one day,
but not today.
And I love that car.
Now,
who else is visually
using me
with my Velcro shoes?
Velcro poloties.
It's not a hard thing
to visualize.
Totally.
Like,
I am not a fashion guy.
I'm just,
like, authentically me,
right?
So, if they're comfortable,
I'll put my court
classics on,
and I'll wear my
Kirkland signature jeans.
I'm all about it.
God.
What are we talking about
in Kirkland jeans?
Hey,
Kirkland is my hometown
for the record.
Love that place.
Nathan's
both values.
But the younger
people
want something different
in their 356,
and maybe that
80-fuel guy did.
So, the 80-fuel guy,
he wanted a car
with perfect gaps
and perfect chrome,
and he wanted
numbers matching,
and, you know,
he wanted to be able
to take it in parking
all along,
and put his two lawn chairs
and his wife's name was
Dottie,
and they sat back there,
and that was what they did.
They had a little
wicker picnic basket.
That's great.
Guys of our generation
are younger.
They're not as interested
in that.
Now, they want more
of a ratty,
patina,
hot-rotty kind of vibe.
And so, you know,
what cars are popular
in the 356 market
would be, you know,
kind of hot-rotty cars.
Like, I'm super excited.
In a few weeks,
I'm getting a 54 pre-A
so a bent window
and kind of ivory on red
that's a hot-rot.
I mean, I could not
be more excited
to have a car in inventory
than I've had in a few
years.
Like, that car is flat,
sexy.
If you don't think so,
join the commercial.
Cool.
So, I think it's different.
The other difference is
that you used to be
in the 356 world.
Anything open
radically outperformed,
a coup.
That's not true now.
It's still true,
a little bit in terms
of values,
but that's changing.
But the interest.
So, if you were,
for example, speculating
on a 356,
please don't buy an open one.
Not a cabaret
or a roadster.
Speedsters are still,
because they're so iconic,
but I probably
still wouldn't invest.
I hate that word,
but wouldn't
deploy money
into that category.
But I would deploy
money into, like,
a kind of like that
vent window
pre-a.
Ah, like, it's ratty
and put stickers on it
and it's got
Abarth 4-Type
Exile.
And it's just,
it's killer.
So.
I love it.
And I do think that
there is such a beauty
to the early,
when I bought my 356
from you, Nathan,
I was all about
enjoying the sea
because the latest
of those generations
and this is getting a
little bit nerdy well
and I apologize.
But essentially, you know,
I wanted to try a 356
with the highest
horsepower and the
disc brakes
and all this.
Boy, I'll tell you,
as you marinate
in the Porsche culture,
you come to realize
just the beautiful lines
on an A.
And especially if you go
pre-a,
anyone who is
familiar with those cars,
take a couple of minutes
and look them up online.
The pre-a cars
have such an amazing
beauty and shape
to them.
And it's really like
driving art
and it's something
you can just
put in your garage
and salivate over it.
Oh, totally.
You know,
and the other thing
is that is a history
nerd of Porsche.
I like the idea
that like, I mean,
a 54, I mean,
this is just
in the very first years
of Porsche
producing car.
I mean, first car
of Proos in 48,
but they really
weren't serial
production until 1950.
And so, I mean,
imagine in 1954
having that car
on the road
anywhere in the US.
I mean, you were
like landing
on the road.
I mean, that was
just insane.
So, super cool.
One third
the size of any other car
on the road.
So, Nathan,
are you up for
a quick fun game?
And so,
Sure.
This kind of comes
from the fact that,
you know,
everyone's always saying,
hey, you know,
I have $50,000
and I'm going to
buy this car.
And I say to them,
well, okay,
but for that amount of money
have you considered
this model
or this model?
Because you're
in a price range
where you can play
the models, of course,
and you know,
have you open your
mind to that?
And a lot of people
become, you know,
with a lot of the blinders.
And so, it's kind of fun
to say, hey, listen,
if you have
X amount of money,
and I gave you three
choices of car,
which would you choose?
And because we have you
on the podcast, Nathan,
I'd love to play this game
with you if that's all right.
Okay. What do we got?
All right.
So, let's start
on the high end.
We're going to do
$80,000 to $120,000.
And I'm going to give you
three choices of cars
and you tell me
what you'd pick.
So, we're going to,
we're going to first go
with a
981 Boxster
Spider,
a 991.2
Carrera S.
With no fees
or minimums on checking
accounts,
it's no wonder
the capital one bank guy
is so passionate
about banking with capital one.
If he were here,
he wouldn't just tell you
about no fees or minimums.
He'd also talk about how
most Capital One cafes
are open seven days
a week to assist
with your banking needs.
Yep.
Even on weekends.
It's pretty much
all he talks about.
In a good way.
What's in your wallet?
Turn supply.
See capital1.com slash bank.
Capital One NA Member FDIC.
Ready to order?
Yes.
We're earning unlimited
3% cash back
on dining and entertainment
with the Capital One
Sabre card.
So, let's just get one
of everything.
Everything?
Fire everything.
The Capital One Sabre card
is at Table 27
and they're earning unlimited
3% cash back.
Yes, Chef!
This is so nice.
Had a feeling you'd want
3% cash back on dessert.
Oh!
Terra Masu!
Earn unlimited 3% cash back
on dining and entertainment
with the Capital One
Sabre card.
Capital One.
What's in your wallet?
Turn supply.
See capital1.com
for details.
Or a
Hayman R.
Whoa!
You're going to make this
hard because you actually
picked some three models.
I think very, very highly up.
So, again, going back
to my original thing.
I always want to know
what someone's use case
is going to be.
So,
and it depends on their use case
a little bit.
I'll speak to those three cars.
Because the one of those cars
that speaks to me,
the most of those three cars
is the Cayman R.
Because to me,
what I like about that car
is form factor.
The overall size of the car,
the maturity of the car,
the fact that at 330 horsepower,
it's certainly not a slow car,
but it's not over the top.
It's normally aspirated.
It's hydraulic steering.
It's limited production.
It's just a pretty
elemental car as Porsche
means to me personally.
Now, if someone's use cases,
they were going to stack on a lot
more miles.
They were doing big road trips
and that kind of thing,
I might not point that direction.
If they were going to do more,
you know, driving tours
and long distance
and that kind of thing
that were present
in the daily service,
the 991.2 is a very compelling case.
I love the fact that
I know this is
heretical, but with the
turbocharged motor,
it's got lots of low-end torques,
but it's a really
nice car to drive in traffic
or kind of that cut
and thrust when you're
on the interstate.
You need to, you know,
pass the Prius,
who's hiding in the left lane.
It just makes it
a very comfortable car
to live with.
And there
is close to Toyota
like reliability
as a modern Porsche
gets.
I think that's kind
of a sweet spot.
So, that's there.
And then the boxer spider,
I have a whole video
about comparing my
987 boxer spider
to a 981.
That is the best sound
that is the best sounding
modern Porsche.
Hands down.
There isn't a better
sounding car.
Like that car,
I think Will
had mentioned this in the past
between that car
and say the GT4,
which in theory
should sound the same,
but some about
that top
and you're doing an
overrun and you're
diving into a corner
and it's
bopping and burbling
and it's just like
it's best.
Yeah.
Standing ovation
for the engineer
who got that sound
directly.
And the
top is great.
It doesn't
listen to all the
naysayers that it's
complicated.
You can't figure
out that top.
You're not smart enough
to own a Porsche.
It's not that hard.
It's a no-brainer.
Yeah.
So, I don't know
the answer to your
question,
but I talked about that.
You said
Cayman R.
And so, and that's actually a
car that not too many people
really know about,
because it is a very low
volume car.
It's very niche.
It's very special.
I think when it first came
out, people mistakenly
called it a parts-bin car.
And they didn't
really know what it was.
And so,
we drove it.
You really
understood how
special it was.
And so, all right.
So, we're going to go
Cayman R for that.
And, all right.
We're going to look
at 50,000 to 80,000.
So, you don't have quite as
much money in the bank
account.
Would you choose a
981 Cayman S
with all the right
options,
not just low miles,
a 981 Cayman S,
a 997.1
Carrera S,
with the right story
and right maintenance,
or a Panamera GTS
in the right buyer's
spec.
Okay.
So, this one's
a little bit easier for me.
981.
I'll tell you.
That's a no-brainer.
And here's why.
Really.
It's, again,
it's that sweet spot
of what-a-like reliability.
Which, you know,
it's not obviously my
priority, I own a little
bit of unreliable
Porsche's, but
there's some beauty
in having a car
that, you know,
you can just
drive and enjoy
because you're not
focused on working on them.
So,
if someone asked me,
what are the known issues
on 981's?
I mean, it's like the
delaminated headlights,
the door panels that
fail.
They have that weird little
glitch at mid-throttle
that will experience
in his car where they
have a little bit of a
car.
Yeah, you know.
That's not it.
I call it a home-
That's the only one
with RPM.
They don't break.
They've held their
value well.
They're easy to work
on.
They're, yeah,
hands down.
That one's easy.
The reason,
the other cars,
I personally think that
997.1 is a beautiful
car.
I think it's a
prettier car than
997.2, with its
ridiculous ebay
tail-lipes and
oversized
side mirrors.
But there's just so much noise in the market about board scoring.
Real or imagined, although right now I have a beautiful car inventory right now that has
unbelievably perfect service history, same owner since 10,000 miles in 2007, with 49,000
miles and it's lived in California and in Washington and it's got board scoring.
That sucks.
In fact, I'm going to be listening to that car for sale and I'm just going to disclose
it. It's got board scoring, even it has no symptoms or anything, but I know it, so
I'm going to disclose it.
So that gets me, particularly if someone's got a lower budget, I don't want to stick
him with that.
And then the Panamera, it's a great car as an additive, but it just can't ever supplant
a Porsche sports car if that's what you're looking for.
If you're looking for a daily driver and you want a Porsche experience, that's a perfectly
legitimate reason to own one, but not just supplant, having a Porsche sports car.
It's hard to put them up against that.
I would agree with that.
So we're going to do the next podcast together, Nathan, on why the 981 is possibly the best
value in Porsche ownership in terms of value for dollar.
And that'll be at 45 minutes of us just completely just crazy in the 981 because I agree with
you.
The 981 came in and the 991 boxers just punch so far above their weight class for what
you pay.
I think they're fantastic, but we'll so sick of hearing me talk about my boxer, so we'll
move on to the next.
Yeah, we'll have to have one cabin on there.
We can also argue about the 988s.
Great cars, 981s.
And I think the spider is the best, period.
It's lovely.
But there's not a one I don't like, and I'm going on record too, you can hate me for
this.
I like the four cylinder cars.
I think they're fabulous.
I think they're a great value because people talk so much trash about them, but functionally
they just get the business done.
And yeah, I think they're a great value.
All right, as an aside, this is not a part of the price discussion, but I am curious
when we talk about boxers, spiders, Nathan, which do you choose?
Do you choose Will's 718 boxer spider or do you choose a 2016 boxer spider?
Neither.
I would take a 987 spider over both those.
But if I had to pick between those, I would pick the 981 spider.
Interesting.
And Will, you've owned both at this point.
Negative only one.
I've had a, well, I've had 981 spider, and I've had two 981 GT4s.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I got confused.
You've had the GT4s.
That's all right.
Okay, man, go watch more of my videos.
Okay.
What are you doing?
It's hard to keep up with Will.
Well, it's called Cardiomytham, thank you.
I'm going to rebrand it.
I'm going to rebrand it.
Well, you can come join Nathan and I on our new podcast talking about transactional cars,
and you can tell us about your collection.
How's that?
Apparently, I have a lot to learn.
All right.
30,000 to 50,000 Nathan.
Okay.
96.1, like I'm talking cable throttle, 99 arrow kit, 996.1, a 987.2, Boxster, or Cayman S,
stick, or a 987.2 manual.
Now, maybe you can tell the audience the difference between, like, at 2009, 987.2 base
model versus the 987.2 S's.
Okay.
That's an interesting mix.
So you said 30 to 50.
Is that where we're talking?
30 to 50.
Yep.
Okay.
Well, you can see in my background, this is my 996 early arrow car.
I could go on for days.
I love this car.
It's a fabulous machine.
I will go on a very small rant.
The whole 99 cable throttle early build.
That's all.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
Is it?
That's exactly why.
Because everyone's saying, oh, you know, it is, it's that we all want to feel a little
bit special, right?
Even me.
I mean, we all want a little niche, and so we say, well, you know, we're like Corvette
people.
You know, we're the only one built on the third Tuesday in March with the big tank, like
nobody cares.
But, and that's the thing, 996 people got picked on for so long.
So even among 996 people, they said, well, I'm a 996 person, but I'm, but I'm a more
special 996.
My car was built in February of 98.
And they say right when they were still building the 993s, I'm like, no, actually the last
day of production for the 993 was December 18, 1997.
So no, your car was not on the line with the 993.
I'm here to tell you.
Yes, I do know there were a few 996s built in 97, but that these early ones were not
built at the same time as a 993.
And people say, oh, they had the same, some of the same parts like the steering wheel.
I'm like, are you talking that ugly ass four spoke 993 steering wheel?
Please don't brag about that.
It's hideous.
It's horrible.
Come on.
You know, and then they were hand assembled, like, and that was better really because modern
Porsche is actually mostly robotically built with some hand assembly and their better
build quality than they've ever been.
So let's stop at the other day, an early 96 is wonderful if you find a wonderful example
that someone's loved and cared for.
And then it's a fabulous car, fabulous car.
So I own one.
Go one for days.
Okay.
So moving on for 30 to 50, I generally don't actually recommend this car because one of
the problems is to get a good one in today's market for a coupe, you're going to spend
35 to 40, which doesn't leave enough money in your budget.
I think to get the car up to where it should be, to really enjoy and have enough money
and reserve for some of the inevitable things that are going to come.
So, and this is more important.
If someone says me, they're spending $100,000, I don't worry about them having a reserve
because the person who can afford 100, if they hit it, $5,000 or $10,000 repair bill,
it doesn't change their work.
The guy who's spending 30, oftentimes doesn't have the reserve in his budget.
In fact, one of the funny things it doesn't make any sense is in my world, the number one
predictor of a customer is going to finance a car, which is, I maybe have five customers
of your finance a car, is always the lower the price, the higher the odds.
So I have people finance $35,000 cars, they never finance $200,000, right?
So for the lower budget person, I always think don't buy at the top of your budget, leave
money in there.
And so I don't think a 996 quite gets you there to buy the right car to start with and
also have money in reserve.
So that one in my book is out.
And then you mentioned 987.2 and then 987.2s, so what's you?
Right, because I don't think people know the magic.
I've actually been a big fan, I would buy one if I could find the right spec, but basically
obviously second generation debuted for 2009, they got the new 981 generation of motors,
which of course got rid of the concern about IMS, bearing a lot of people say it also got
rid of the risk for board scoring, that's not true, 981's canned board score.
Oh geez, you know, they do it at a lower rate, I would almost argue it's probably just
because they're newer and there's less of them, so we see less of it.
I think we're going to see it with the same frequency because it's the same engineering
challenges in terms of what the what the liners are and some of the architecture of the motor.
But they're also the base cars got a 6-speed, they got a 2.9-liter 255 horsepower motor,
they're not direct injection, so they don't carbon up, and it's a really revy car, it's
a really basic car, hydraulic steering, small form factor, great car, the only challenge
is just finding one, they didn't make a lot of them, jumping the S, I have no issue
with the S, if someone can find the right car in their budget, it's a great car, but one
of the things I don't like about those cars is once you get into an S, you get uncomfortably
close to 981 pricing.
So for example, someone said to me, okay, I'm going to spend $40,000 for a 987.2-boxster
S, I would actually probably say in my opinion a 981 even base boxers have better car for
that same dollar in terms of what it returns to you.
So if I were to actually summarize your question, 987.2 base, a 6-speed manual, I would not
suggest some of these early cars with the PDKs once they have mileage, not because there's
anything wrong dynamically with the PDK, I'm not a hater, but we are seeing some failure
on some of those early PDKs, and again, someone who's got a small budget, a PDK failure
could be potentially as expensive as an IMS failure back in the day.
So that's the concern I would have where there are some vendors starting to do some work
on the PDK, so it's not as catastrophic as it once was, but if you go to a dealer and
buy a new PDK, you're going to be knocking on the door of 20 grand.
That's a painful pill to swallow on a $30,000 car.
Now and I, of course, just want to say thank you for joining us again on this podcast.
I always come away from our conversations, much more thoughtful about the Porsche market,
and you always give me one or two models that I hadn't considered before that now I'm
going to do some research on with my little kitty on the side, maybe that's something
I want to own.
So you have our motion seal, thanks for joining us, and I'm going to really look forward
to having you on again soon.
I really appreciate you having me and again, we'll pause as I came at you so hard last
time. So hopefully I'll come across a little more kindness time.
Listen, man, you know what, it's all in good fun, and you cannot be out here creating content
and not yet used to having darts thrown at you.
So all good, all good, fun, love catching up with you as frequently as we do.
So thanks for being here, Nathan.
Absolutely.
Have a great day, guys.
And that's a wrap for this episode of Renthusiast Radio.
We hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of Porsche's with us today, and if you enjoyed
today's show, be sure to check out previous episodes and subscribe to Renthusiast Radio
wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget to leave us a review.
Your feedback helps us improve and ensures we're delivering the Porsche content you look
forward to.
Catch you on the next episode of Renthusiast Radio.
Hey, what's up?
Nothing, baby.
You're back with the tickets.
How did you get all that fast?
Easy.
We are Fred Meyer.
Tienen de todo y a muy buen precio.
El queso cotija.
Arena masa.
Clavos.
Check.
And Fred Meyer.
Consigues sus productos de calidad para las recetas familiares de estas fiestas aprecios
bajos.
Fred Meyer.
Fresh para todos.
Selecciona entre una gran variedad de cupones digitales y utiliza los hasta cinco veces en
una transacción.
Mira nuestro app para detalles.
Fred Meyer.
Fresh for everyone.
With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so
passionate about banking with Capital One.
If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums.
He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist
with your banking needs.
Yep.
Even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about.
In a good way.
What's in your wallet?
C Capital One dot com slash bank Capital One and a member FDIC.
If you love to travel, Capital One has a rewards credit card that's perfect for you.
With the Capital One Venture X card, you earn unlimited double miles on everything
you buy.
Plus, you get premium benefits at a collection of luxury hotels when you book on Capital
One Travel.
And with Venture X, you get access to over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide.
And up a world of travel possibilities with the Capital One Venture X card, what's in
your wallet?
Terms apply.
Lounge access is subject to change.
C Capital One dot com for details.
Request an explanation for:
16 cars
Scroll for more
16 cars featured
Request an Explanation
Heard something you'd like explained? We'll add it to this episode.
Sign in to request explanations for terms you heard.
Want to learn more?
Browse our glossary for plain-English explanations of automotive terms, jargon, and concepts.
See something that's not quite right? Our annotations are AI-generated and can sometimes miss the mark.
Click the flag icon on any annotation to suggest a correction.
Report incorrect info
Suggest better explanations
Flag missing cars
More from Eleven After Nine | A Porsche Culture Podcast
