New Jeep Cherokee, Bronco Stroppe, Tariff Turmoil Explained

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All right, this is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.

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Jill, I'm having an emergency here.

Is it a donut emergency?

It is, and it's not hot.

Producer Randy actually cranked up the air in here, so we can't blame the temperature,

but the entire top of this donut is sliding off.

It is a little melty.

Like a bad delivery pizza, where all the cheese just comes off.

You ever got a bit in the hot pizza, and then all the cheese comes off?

All of it falls in your lap, yes.

That's a nightmare.

Yes.

That's a nightmare.

That's what's happening with this donut.

This is the peanut butter and jelly donut.

It's seasonal at Spunky Dunkers.

It's delicious, though Producer Randy wants it to be grape.

This is strawberry.

Yeah.

Or raspberry.

I can't even tell now.

It's red.

It is red.

Yeah, this is a delicious donut.

It's browned, but it's not a mess.

It is.

It does look a little messy.

We'll see how much of this I can eat during the commercial break.

Probably not much, because you only have one napkin.

Yeah.

All right.

That voice is Jill Simanillo.

She is a contributing editor here at ConsumerGuide.com, North American Carrier of the Year

juror, and a prolific freelancer.

Yes.

Have you freelanced anything recently?

You know, I actually-

Freelanced?

Yes.

I think I just, I don't think I said the D.

Freelanced?

Yeah.

Yes.

I did a new review of the Cadillac OPTIQ for greencars.com.

Oh, okay.

And I have a review of the Escalade IQ coming out on greencars.com soon.

I'm getting that vehicle in a while.

Okay.

I'm getting the ID buzz this week.

Yeah.

I'm excited about that.

And the guy at Taco Bell's excited.

Because he can't wait to see you come to him.

Yeah.

I've made a friend at Taco Bell.

Okay.

And my bright yellow Volvo EX30 this week, he enjoyed that.

Speaking of launch colors as we did last week, that would be one of those.

And also, we should talk about this car at greater length.

But you did review this way back when.

Yes.

What a delight.

I love this car.

If EVs are perfect, this is pretty close.

Yeah.

I can kind of do without the hyper-modern Spartan interior, like I would like some external

controls for like HVAC stuff or climate.

But I don't have a lot of complaints.

It's fun to drive.

It's roomy.

It's fast as lightning.

Yeah.

Like fast, fast.

Like this is one of the fastest vehicles I've ever driven.

Yeah.

And it's under 50 grand.

What the hell?

Yeah.

I mean, it was supposed to be a lot cheaper than that, but it's not.

Yeah.

Like if you were once inclined to buy a Trans Am, buy this small yellow boxy thing

instead.

It's faster.

Right.

I mean, I...

It may not handle better.

Yeah.

I loved pretty much everything about this vehicle when I drove it.

And I've driven it.

It was probably about two years ago because they were doing a global launch of it in

Spain and it was supposed to come to the United States, I think in 2023 maybe.

And it got bumped.

Yeah.

It kept getting pushed back for different production reasons.

And then they were going to build them in China.

Yeah.

And I think the one I'm driving was built in China, but they're moving

production...

Belgium.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I couldn't remember where.

So that might be less of an issue.

And we do now have a deal with the EU.

Yeah.

Anyway, we're talking to Sam Fiorani later in the show.

Yes.

We're going to get caught up on some of that stuff.

Yes.

So, all right.

Was I distracted from something?

I was.

We were talking to EX30.

But you just reminded me, big news at Jeep.

Yeah.

We forgot to talk about it last week.

We did.

The Jeep Cherokee is back.

Yes.

Finally.

Yes.

Cherokee goes way back to the 80s.

And back then it was a very boxy, serious off-roader available in two and four-door.

It's back this year after a kind of disappointing generation where it sold well for a while.

But part of the problem was it didn't look bigger than the Compact Compass.

It cost a lot more than the Compact Compass.

And ultimately I don't think people saw it as a mid-sized car.

They didn't cross over.

They didn't see it as an alternative to an Explorer or a Pilot or a Blazer or a Highlander.

So the new version of this vehicle looks good.

Is boxier?

Yes.

It's bigger.

And the big news so far it's going to launch hybrid only.

Yes.

We should say we don't have a lot of details about this.

We don't.

In fact, I don't even know the engine size, but I think it's a 1.6 liter.

It is.

I've got the press release pulled up.

It's a 1.6 liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine.

And it says that it will have more than 500 miles of range, 37 miles per gallon.

Why are we now giving range for vehicles that aren't electric?

I know.

Don't care.

It's become a thing.

I don't care.

Interestingly, the Compass was, I'm sorry, the Cherokee was built in Belvedere, Illinois.

The new one's not going to be.

Right.

That's being reserved for something else, that pickup truck thing that's going to

happen.

Maybe.

Yes, we think.

We hope.

We think.

We think we can stop.

And I want the Dakota or whatever they're going to call it.

I want that to come back, the mid-sized truck.

Yeah, I'm hoping two things could happen there.

The big truck market.

The big trucks are getting expensive and people can't afford them.

But mid-sized pickups are a really nice alternative.

But in the past, Americans have lost interest in mid-sized trucks.

We went through that period of time, five, six, seven, eight years ago, where Chevy wasn't

even, General Motors wasn't even selling one.

And the pilot went away.

And like it was all really weird, not the pilot, the Ridgeline, went away for a minute.

And it's like, they're back now and they're selling in volume.

Yeah.

I mean, the full-size trucks have gotten too big to fit in garages.

And I think that is one of the big selling points of a mid-size truck is that it

will fit in your garage.

Crazy thing about that.

It's that like Americans don't want to see the truck shrink, but they need them to shrink.

Yes.

Or they need the garage to get bigger.

Like when Cadillacs were getting longer every year, you know, they would actually advertise

that they were longer.

No practical benefit of that.

So yeah, I think trucks lost common sense in terms of sizing when it became impossible

to lift a toolbox over the sign of a truck.

Like that's just so weird.

Like I'm not tall enough, it's strong enough to lift a 40-pound toolbox up over my head

into the box of a...

And you're not short.

No.

It's a weird thing.

Like me doing that?

That's one thing, but you're doing that?

That's another.

We had to add steps to the back bumpers so people could get into them.

Yes.

Yeah.

Big trucks are too big.

They're gloriously wonderfully refined and luxurious and strong and...

Big trucks serve a purpose, but if fitting in your garage is not one of them.

Well, if you're in Texas, they serve the purpose of compact car.

Yeah, that's true.

That is true.

That is very true.

But the Cherokee, supposed to start under $40,000.

Yep, coming soon.

Haven't seen it in person yet, but in the pictures, to me, it reminds me a lot of the...

Like in styling, not in size, but in styling of the former renegade.

Well, that's good.

Yeah.

I like the styling on the renegade.

But the uprightness and the grill and the headlights, it just makes me think of renegade.

Yeah.

This is probably good news, really good news for Jeep.

They needed this volume.

And I don't know why they always have a gap in their lineup right here, but part of

the problem too is that the Grand Cherokee got bigger and expensive.

Part of the problem is that it's expensive.

It's really a luxury vehicle.

So they really need this vehicle.

Yeah.

And they need some smaller vehicles too.

They do.

So we'll see where that goes, but that's coming out relatively soon.

Yes.

Is it early next year?

I don't know if they actually said when it was coming out.

Soon enough.

We'll know more.

Soon enough.

But yeah, I mean, we really don't have a lot of details.

I mean, they're calling it a 2026 model.

So I would anticipate that we will see it before the end of the year.

An interesting thing happening at Jeep too, and there's no clarity on this, but the

Grand Wagoneer is being freshened.

They've announced that.

They did not announce a freshening for the Wagoneer.

So it could mean two things.

Yeah.

One, the Grand Wagoneer is going away.

Right.

That's, yes.

But two, it could be playing the role of lower priced old model, kind of like the old

Ram 1500 classic.

Could be.

They might need that thing to come down in price a little bit to start selling those.

Grand Wagoneer obviously and Wagoneer are the same vehicle, but different trim level

basically.

And there are trim levels of each, so it's kind of confusing and way too many for

the volume of that vehicle, by the way, both now powered by the excellent hurricane

engine.

So the fuel economy improved slightly since they were introduced.

Oh, man.

I hope they don't feel like they need to squeeze V8s in those again.

They may.

Dang.

I bet that's coming.

So tired of that.

Those are nice vehicles though.

Yeah.

So Cherokee coming soon.

Jeep's going to get some volume out of that.

That's the good news.

Like that could be out of the chute in 80,000 unit a year vehicle, and it could

break that if they, depending on pricing.

All right.

I want to get back to something we talked about two weeks ago, two weeks ago.

And that is the tiny little Japanese cars.

Oh, yeah.

So the pronunciation is neither chi nor k, but it's weird.

Key, isn't it?

So most people say chi.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

It depends who you're talking to, but the formal pronunciation is kind of close

to k.

Okay.

But there's some k.

Yeah, k.

Okay.

But here's the interesting thing.

They're coming in 1949, and they are in fact this, this plan by the Japanese government to

encourage people to buy small, affordable, parkable cars that don't take up a lot of garage or

street space because Tokyo really crowded.

And other Kobe, other Japanese cities really crowded.

So this was that a k car may not be longer than 11 feet, 11 feet long, more than five

feet wide, or two meters high, 6.6 feet or high.

So they could be pretty high.

Yeah.

They could be higher than they are wide.

Like a little delivery van type thing.

Yeah.

And they are used for commercial purposes too.

Yeah.

And you get huge tax incentives for buying these.

So including cheaper insurance and parking and stuff like that.

Okay.

And licensing.

Limited to 660 cc's, and I don't know if this is correct, but it's the thing I

read said 63 horsepower.

Yeah.

And I think they get higher than that because a lot of people turbocharge.

Right.

This is the little engines.

They're three and four cylinder engines.

Uh, they get special license plates.

I don't know what that's about.

But here are your most popular kai cars last year.

Okay.

Ready?

The Suzuki Alto Works.

Okay.

Which is described here as a little sports car.

The Honda Acti, which is described as a little truck.

Great for off-road and farm use.

The Dahatsu Hyjet, which I believe is a van.

The Nissan Sakura and the Mitsubishi Minica.

So there you have it.

There's Genesis throwing some ships, uh, throwing some ships, throwing some cars overboard.

Yeah.

Kind of a shame.

Brand new brand, kind of got its momentum, added a bunch of brand cars.

All of them were good.

Yeah.

There was no bad Genesis ever.

No.

Um, the GV60 small electric crossover and the GV90 big sedan look like they're safe

for now.

Yeah.

Even though they sell in very small volume.

Yeah.

I think they want to keep their GV60 cool, fun to drive EV and their flagship sedan.

Yeah.

GV70 is on the rocks.

We don't know when that's going away, but the, uh, where is it here?

The GV70 is going away after 2027.

The GV70 or the G70?

G70.

So that's the small compact car.

Yeah.

Uh, the GV7 electrified.

That's the electric version of the small popular crossover dies immediately.

So no 2026.

And then I love this car and it's kind of an old man car, I guess.

But the, um, the G80 electrified, their mid-sized car, the electric version of that was a delight

to drive.

It was.

It's fabulous.

It's going away.

No one's buying it.

Well, they're, so they're keeping the GV60, which is electric, but then they're getting

rid of the GV70 electrified, the GV80 electrified.

So none of that makes total sense to me, but I'm sure they have a plan.

That means the only electric car they have is the GV60.

Yes.

For now.

Um, and so this to me is very interesting because they just launched or revealed the,

um, GV, uh, 70 electrified, like the new refresh 2026 model.

Like they just revealed, like I want to say at the LA auto show, they revealed that

alongside the GV70, which I'm currently driving the 2026 GV70, uh, but they, they, they

revealed them both.

And so I find it interesting that it's dead in the water.

I don't know.

Maybe there's, there's a new one coming.

Maybe there's a specific EV coming.

I don't know.

Cause so far the only specific electric vehicle they've done is the GV60.

All the other were electric versions of stuff.

Yes.

So it might make sense for them to do a GV80.

They're big, they're mid-sized, big, well, that's coming GV90 doesn't exist yet.

That's going to be a large or G90.

You said G80, GV80, this is absolutely the worst lineup to talk about.

I hate it when automakers do alpha numeric, only BMW and Mercedes are worse.

Yeah.

But anyway, they're getting rid of a bunch of electric cars.

Yes.

And they've already launched the GV80 coupe, which is the fast-back version of the GV80.

So that's where the volume is going to be for now, gasoline-powered versions of those vehicles.

And they will be bringing an electric vehicle.

Remember that more electric vehicles, because remember that Genesis is owned by Hyundai,

and Hyundai's got a kind of a good head start on EVs, and they're good.

So we'll see those.

And also I know the GV60, which is electrified, they don't call it that, is a blast

to drive.

And they are refreshing that, I think, for 2026.

Yeah, that might do business in China.

I don't know what to do with that.

All right.

We both drove.

Yes.

One of the craziest vehicles that I've tested in a while.

And it's always nice to get something that your neighbors point at.

Yes.

It doesn't happen much anymore.

But we spent time in the 2025 Ford Bronco Strop Edition.

Yes.

And we need to talk a little bit about what that was.

But in the 60s and 70s, Ford had some pretty big success racing the Bronco in Baja.

Some off-road fun.

And much of the credit for that goes to vehicle builder Bill Strop.

He was a designer, builder, and driver guy.

And he led to much of their success.

So hats off to him.

But the vehicle is kind of a regular Ford Bronco that gets most of the Raptor equipment,

but not all of it.

Though it does not get the full three-liter engine, it gets a 2.7-liter engine.

But ridiculous and awesome racing livery.

So decals and colors.

So it's like, it looks like the Chicago Bears vehicle.

Yeah.

A little bit.

Yeah.

Blue and orange and white.

Only available on the two-door.

Yes.

Which was kind of cool.

So I really enjoyed driving that.

I enjoyed being pointed at.

It's surprisingly easy to drive despite the equipment.

So you get a lot of the off-road stuff.

It is kind of expensive.

I think it's this year only.

It's a lot expensive.

Well, but it's not compared to the Raptor.

OK.

So if you're looking for the eye candy, the visual appeal, maybe this is the way

to go instead.

Maybe $75,000 is OK.

Yeah, the vehicle I drove was $77,665 compared to the last Raptor edition that I drove

two years ago.

That was $96,720.

So this is $20,000 less than that.

It is just the two-door.

That saves you a little money.

Right.

But plenty of power, fun to drive.

I did not take it off-road, but I did drive it around town.

Also here's the crazy thing.

All the things I used to complain about, this just makes me very old feeling, but I got

like 19 miles to the gallon.

Had this vehicle come out 20 years ago, it would be getting nine miles to the

gallon.

Yeah.

And I feel like I got significantly less than that, but I live in the city.

And so I'm writing a review for you that will hopefully be posted by the time this airs about

how city-worthy the Bronco Strop is.

Because it's on a shorter wheelbase and it is higher up because of the big wheels and

tires and all that kind of stuff.

Those tires kill mileage too.

And this actually does very well in a city situation.

It's easy to parallel park.

It's easy to fit in tight urban spaces.

You know, it fit in my small, dingy, dark city garage.

And I have to go up like a 22-degree ramp to get into my garage.

And it handled that just fine.

So the only sticking point really was for me, being in the city, fuel economy, because

you have a lot of stops and starts and low speeds, not a lot of highway driving.

Yeah.

So this is just a fun, crazy vehicle.

And if you have the money and you're looking for a fun household third car, because it's

not the world's best commuter car.

It's a little loud.

It's a little loud on the cabin.

A little loud, a little obnoxious.

Yeah.

You would never want to take the stickers off because they're fun.

Yes.

And maybe you want to add a bear sticker if you live in Chicago.

The Strop.

Yes.

The Strop.

Yeah.

So I enjoyed driving that thing.

It's expensive.

It is what it is, but it is a really nice package.

Yeah.

You know, a couple months ago, I actually had the opportunity to take it off-road

at the Midwest Automotive Media Association Rally.

And that was my favorite vehicle of the day.

And it was a messy, sloppy, horrible, miserable, rainy day.

And so this was really sloshing around and sliding everywhere, but it handled the course

better than everything else that I drove.

Ford has done a series of heritage edition versions of the Bronco Sport and Bronco

where they get the white wheels and the white grille, and they look like steel wheels

and steel grille, neither of which is steel.

Yeah.

But they're cool.

Yeah.

And my hats off to them for having fun with this stuff.

And it's like Jeep does the Willys edition of stuff, which is also really cool.

Yeah.

A wonderful heritage throwback.

And at Jeep, I think the Willys is among the most affordable of the Wranglers.

Not that any Wranglers affordable anymore.

But anyway, I think that vehicle might be this year only.

That would make sense.

Yeah.

That would make sense.

So there you have it.

Hats off to Bill Strop, the folks at Ford.

We're going to take a break.

Welcome back.

We talked to Sam Fiorani of Auto Forecast Solutions about many things.

Many things.

Many things that we don't understand that Sam does.

Stick around.

Questions or comments?

Drop us a line at carstuffatconsumerguide.com.

That's carstuffatconsumerguide.com.

Welcome back to the Car Stuff Podcast.

All right.

This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff Podcast.

I'm Tom.

She is Jill, and we are noshing on donuts.

We are.

I'm eating a very lovely cinnamon donut, by the way.

My donut's a mess.

Your donut is a mess.

I don't know what happened there.

Somehow I'm clean.

You were leaning over the table.

You remember when we had Zach here, Zach Brattle, and he grabbed the cinnamon

powder donut and then was immediately coated in it?

Yeah.

Like, how did that happen?

I don't know.

But those things are messy.

That was a law of physics that I don't understand.

He was suddenly wrapped in cinnamon dust.

Yeah.

Which was funny.

It was funny.

Kind of cute.

All right.

Real quick, I am on Twitter and X.

I am Car Guy Tom.

Be sure to check me out there.

On the phone with us, our good friend, our reliable friend, Sam Fiorani of Auto

Forecast Solutions.

Sam, how are you today?

How you doing, guys?

I'm doing well.

Been a while, and I'm glad we're talking to you today.

But before we start, tell us about Auto Forecast Solutions and what you do

there.

Auto Forecast Solutions provides data and analytical services to the automotive

industry.

We do forecasting of vehicles, production of vehicles around the world, plus

their powertrains, and we cover currently around 61 production countries globally.

Wow.

I can't name 61 countries.

I mean, I can try.

Yeah.

My geography is a little light too, but I can definitely get over 61.

Yeah, I get really messed up like Northern South America.

I don't know where anything is.

I know that Butch and Sundance went to Bolivia, so I know, I know where

Bolivia is because I check it every time I see the movie, but like, like

Northern and Central Africa.

I got no idea.

Yeah, there are a number of countries in Africa that do

produce vehicles, and a lot of people don't know that.

Actually, I was, you know what?

This was not on the list of things we were going to talk about, Sam.

And I'm, I'm sorry to throw you a curve ball like this.

Light-grossing.

Yeah, I am.

But, but talk a little bit about Africa.

Every decade or so, some economist comes around and tells us that the next

big growth market for auto sales is Africa, and they're always wrong.

Are we closer to that now?

We're always closer to it, but there are just so many people in Africa

that it seems ripe for, for automotive expansion.

Right.

South Africa produces quite a few vehicles, as does Egypt and

Morocco is growing as a, as a center for automotive production as well.

So we're seeing a lot of these countries popping up.

A number of countries have regulations on the books where they, they don't allow

imported vehicles.

So there's a lot of kit production in smaller countries in, in Africa.

Okay.

But Morocco and South Africa are export hubs.

Yeah.

South Africa used to build a lot of stuff that they don't anymore.

Do they still build BMWs down there?

They do.

BMWs and Mercedes and Volkswagen are keyed down there.

Interesting.

All right.

The big question I have for you, Sam, I hope you're ready.

We've been witnessing this, this tariff thing now for a while, but it does seem that finally

automakers are no longer waiting to see what's going to happen.

They have made some changes, some production changes, some allocation changes, and things

will be different.

Can you talk a little bit about sort of the biggest manufacturer reactions to the

tariffs?

Well, a lot of the companies are waiting for things to be ironed out.

We have a free trade agreement with, you know, with Canada and Mexico.

And the tariffs on non-USMCA compliant parts are currently in effect there.

And most companies are just waiting for the, for deals to be signed with those

two countries so that they can figure out what to do with the next generation of

vehicles or the next year's worth of vehicles at this point.

General Motors has announced that they would move some production of Mexican

products into the U.S.

And that was likely to appease the administration and hope that they would sign

deals with Canada and Mexico a little quicker.

Speaking of General Motors, General Motors' most popular, not most popular,

but their most surprisingly popular vehicles come from Chevy and Buick

now, the Invista, the Encore GX, the Chevy Trax, and the Chevy Trailblazer.

Those vehicles are affordable and they're selling surprisingly well, especially

for Buick.

Are those in trouble because those are imported from South Korea?

They are in trouble.

The problem there is that we've had a free trade agreement with South

Korea, and these vehicles were less expensive to ship from South Korea

than they were from Japan even.

And most other countries had a 2.5% tariff prior to the Trump administration.

And with a free trade agreement with South Africa, these vehicles were

affordable to sell in the U.S.

Now we're looking at a 15% tariff, which makes these inexpensive vehicles

much more difficult to sell in the U.S.

They're going to have to find a way to get around the tariffs or

eliminate the vehicle altogether potentially.

That's sad to hear because those vehicles, it's surprising how good they are.

And it's nice to see Chevrolet in the subcompact crossover mix with a competitive

vehicle that is price competitive and quality competitive.

And the reviews of it are very good.

Yeah, those vehicles are very nice and affordable and selling very well.

So that's a little bit depressing.

Now, we haven't seen price movement on too many vehicles that are imported

from tariff countries yet, and manufacturers still want to see what the deal is.

And in the meantime, they're just taking the bottom line hit.

For this model year, it was largely taking the hit because you just didn't know

what was going to go on.

Now, as we're bleeding into the new model year, we're going to see price

rising of new vehicles.

We're going to see 26 model year vehicles price slightly higher to take

some of that tariff away.

Again, nothing has been signed.

So we don't know what the end cost is on these vehicles.

And there's a lot of negotiation that has to go on to get to that point.

So we're just waiting to find out how much these vehicles will

cost to build and sell in the U.S., and we're still a distance away from that.

Do you see the, ultimately, do you see the number of vehicles sold in the

U.S., different vehicles sold in the U.S. declining as a result of this?

Absolutely.

The problem is that all vehicles are going to be more expensive to sell.

It doesn't matter if they're tariffed or not.

Nobody builds a hundred percent U.S.-built vehicle and all the parts come from

somewhere and those imported parts are likely to have a 15% tariff going forward.

On top of that, when you tariff vehicles that are imported, you raise the price of

those vehicles and you lessen the competition.

So by doing that, all the vehicles are going to be more expensive.

We're going to see fewer choices.

Like we talked before, the inexpensive vehicles from South Korea could

potentially be on the block.

They make up a large portion of Chevy sales, but getting rid of some of

these vehicles will lessen the choice and raise the prices even more.

So you just said that of the automakers out there, there's never like a

hundred percent of a vehicle that is completely built in the United States.

And I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about Tesla and

how tariffs might affect them because they traditionally top the American

made index and I don't know what their percentage of parts in the United

States are, but it's fairly high.

It is fairly high.

It's in the upper 80s to low 90s percentage, which means that there are

still as many as 10% of those parts come from somewhere else.

And whether that's Mexico or China or somewhere else, some other country,

all those things are now covered with tariffs.

Even Tesla will see their costs go up after these tariffs.

So talk a little bit about what you just said there, that there's 10%

of those parts that are going to be coming from someplace else.

So does that mean that there could potentially be a 10% increase of the car

or it's just a 10% increase on those parts?

And then that could be like a 1% increase of the car.

I think this is where a lot of confusion comes in on.

The math is a nightmare.

Yeah, on how like tariffs are going to be applied, you know, and is it

on the full car?

Is it on parts of the car?

Is it on, you know, parts of the car?

But then the price is going to go up completely because, you know,

they need to cover it and the math is hard.

No, the math is definitely hard.

And I don't envy anyone in the government who has to calculate these things.

But when you have a vehicle that has, let's say 90% US content, which

only accounts for a Tesla model or two, that leaves 10% of the parts

that come from somewhere else.

And presuming that they are not from Mexico or Canada and covered

under the USMCA free trade agreement, that would be 10% of that vehicle

that could potentially be tariff.

And so if those are tariffed at 15%, you have 10% of the vehicle

at 15% tariff, which means it's one and a half percent of the vehicle's cost.

Which is a big deal.

In this case, it's a Tesla, so it's not a huge deal.

But it's still on a fifty thousand dollar vehicle.

We're still talking seven hundred fifty dollars.

Which is a pretty big deal.

All right, Sam, I want to get to the very I love this question only

because I've been thinking about it all week and only you know the answer.

But but the something very strange happened.

And I don't know if people fully appreciate it.

But the big, beautiful bill mostly defanged the EPA's ability

to find manufacturers in the US for not meeting EPA fuel economy standards.

And an interesting side effect of this is that electric vehicle

manufacturers who had received credits for selling only non-polluting vehicles

will no longer be making money selling those credits to other manufacturers.

And this is a pretty large chunk of change.

Is it not? It is.

I did some calculations on this and Tesla earned

almost two point eight billion dollars in selling credits around the world.

Just last year. Wow.

So of that two point eight, I calculated to be around two billion of that

was just in the US. Oh, oh.

And so this is a company that that made roughly seven billion dollars last year.

And that was a decrease from the year before.

So if you take two billion dollars out of seven billion dollars,

that's a large chunk of their profits.

Yeah. And they're not they're not going to get that money anymore.

And manufacturers don't have to pay that money no anymore.

So this is good news for Stalantis and terrible news for Tesla.

It's good news for many consumers because a lot of people like that.

Hemi V8 and by not having the penalties on emissions,

suddenly they are free to sell more V8 engine vehicle.

And strangely, they're going to do that.

Yes, they are. They are too.

Yes. Talk a little bit about the the taxing entities.

So the US government was was involved in taxing

vehicles that didn't meet certain EPA and emissions targets.

But what other countries do this globally?

And those are still in effect, right?

Like the EU does it. And does China?

China has the credits as well.

OK. And the EU does about 10 percent of Tesla's.

And that's the one that I have the numbers on.

About 10 percent of theirs came from China,

and which leaves the 15 percent or roughly 15

percent of the tariffs coming from the EU.

Companies that don't reach the the demanded level of emissions

were fined and those fines come in the form of

can be offset by buying tax by buying carbon credit.

And that's what Tesla Tesla and Rivian and Lucid were in the business of doing.

More than selling vehicles is selling carbon credit.

So I've got two related questions.

And in the US, we have Lucid and we have Rivian,

and they made some money off of this as well, but not nearly as much,

right, because the volume of vehicles they sold was lighter.

Correct. They're losing those entirely

because they don't do much business or any business in the EU or in China.

But the other question they have has to do with General Motors,

which is about to sell an awful lot of electric cars.

They're starting to sell more and they're going to sell more next year.

Are they off the hook now?

Are they hitting these numbers and they don't need to buy credits?

Well, they won't anymore.

Anyway, it's theoretical, but they wouldn't have needed to.

They they likely would have needed to buy some.

OK. The all the EVs that they're building

are offsetting all the credits that they would need to buy

for Silverados and Corvettes and anything else

that that doesn't meet the emissions.

Gotcha. And then how much money

just off the top of your head if you're close?

But this is a pretty big blow, right, to Rivian.

Yeah, no, the Rivian is

is working on fumes as it is as a gas related pun, I guess.

The Rivian need help from their investments from Volkswagen

that sales of the vehicles are not taking off to the level

where they can pay for themselves yet.

And they're planning on a plant expansion.

So Rivian is in desperate need of money

and every little dollar counts.

And some of those came from selling carbon credit.

I was all excited about Rivian, right?

They got that money from from Volkswagen

and like a billion of it was in cash.

I'm like, they're good, they're home free.

And then like in Q2, they lost like a billion dollars.

What what is the problem there?

Have they still not figured out how to build a car

in line with the pricing that other manufacturers can build a car?

Well, they their vehicles are expensive.

There's not a lot of room for growth.

Once you get so many pickups and SUVs out there,

there's not a lot of room for expansion for an $80,000 SUV.

Yeah. So they're they're counting on the R2s and R3s

coming planned to come starting next year.

Is it your expectation that they'll

be able to build those affordably enough to make money on them?

That's a great question.

Because they're going to get volume,

but I don't know if they're going to get profit.

Well, they're going to get volume,

but they're also hampered by the size of their plant.

They don't have the new plant open yet

and won't have it for a few years.

So it depends on how many vehicles

they can crank out of that one plant in Illinois.

You know, Sam, you probably read the headlines

and I'm sure that these numbers are probably not as accurate as they could be.

But the lucid gravity not selling well.

What have you heard about that?

We're in the middle of the ramp up.

So I take that as part of the pain

that comes from starting production of a new model.

OK. I can't call the vehicle a failure yet.

It's way too early.

But the numbers have been between

handfuls that have been reported by registration numbers

and likely dozens or I think they said

in the triple digits that Lucid claimed.

So I don't claim it as a loss yet.

OK, interesting.

All right, Sam, you've got some news

at the Boyertown Museum of Historic Vehicles.

What's going on?

Yeah, the museum is celebrating its 60th anniversary this year.

Congratulations.

It's it's if you haven't been there, it's fantastic.

It's a collection of Pennsylvania based vehicles

and alternative fuel vehicles.

So we have electric vehicles dating back over 100 years,

as well as Pennsylvania built vehicles going back to slaves

that they built in the early 1800s. Wow.

It's it's a great collection.

It's a beautiful museum.

And at the end of September, we're celebrating 60 years of the museum

with a big gala and lots of other events coming on.

So we can't wait to show it.

Everybody what's what's happening in the museum.

And how do people check that out at Boyertown Museum dot org?

And it's in Boyertown, Pennsylvania in East just northwest of Philadelphia.

It's open seven days a week.

And we would love for people to stop by and tell them they heard it on car stuff.

And then you guys have my favorite electric vehicle, right?

Or did you borrow this vehicle, the Hedy killer Hedy kilowatt?

We have our own and we are actually looking at getting another one.

So the Hedy kilowatt was a converted

to Renault from the early 60s.

And it's it's it's the return

of the electric vehicle market after World War Two.

It's that whole era of they converted a lot of vehicles

into electrics as people thought about emissions.

They thought about gas prices for the first time in decades.

There is a fair amount of surviving literature about that vehicle,

advertisements, brochures and whatnot online.

People should check that out because it was they were shockingly

optimistic going into that project and you really wanted it to work for them.

But it was a cool looking little car.

Absolutely. Yeah.

All the electric vehicles from the from the fifties into the early eighties.

I always find interesting.

And there's one going off at auction in Chicago actually coming up soon.

That I'm considering bidding on because it should go for a pretty for a small amount.

Wait, what is that?

A Hedy kilowatt or it's not.

It's a converted Limit Horizon three.

And now the price goes up because you just told everybody you were looking at it.

I vaguely was at a Chrysler project or who did that?

This one was not a Chrysler project, but the museum does have a similar vehicle

that was a Chrysler project in 1979.

Wow, I was was hoping to put the two together into one collection.

That's wonderful.

I kind of remember that vehicle vaguely.

Well, Sam, yeah, the Chrysler one was spent with a really nice little car.

But, you know, I can't imagine getting four people to 60 miles an hour

in it, which they claim to do.

Sam, remind folks about auto forecast solutions and how they can check you guys out.

Auto forecast solutions is auto forecast solutions dot com.

And we can be found on the web.

We can found on LinkedIn and all the social media outlets.

Give us a call if you need any help.

Sam, thank you so much for your time today.

I've always enjoyed it.

Thank you. All right.

That was Sam Fiorani, vice president of Global Forecasting at Auto Forecast Solutions.

We're going to take a break.

And when we come back this time.

Questions or comments, drop us a line at carstuff at consumerguide.com.

That's carstuff at consumerguide.com.

Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.

And we're back.

This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.

I'm Tom. She's Jill.

And I always smell, smell, feel.

I always feel smarter.

Are you telling me I smell good?

Do I smell smarter?

I smell good.

I always feel smarter after we talk to Sam.

Yeah, no, Sam is great.

He's always a great guest.

And he always is really hip to the analysis of what's going on into the industry.

61 countries.

Yeah.

I can't name 61 countries, I'm sure.

I mean, I might I might be able to name 60.

But that last one is just going to America,

Bolivia, Germany, Portugal, that's everything I know.

Colombia, Costa Rica, Mexico, Canada, I know Canada.

I've been there.

I have been to Canada.

So I've been to Mexico.

Have you seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Good?

We've discussed this before.

No, I have not.

I completely forgot.

The Bolivia stuff is pretty funny.

That is a great movie.

Brazil.

Brazil is also in South America.

Brazil is a great movie.

Chile.

Have you seen Brazil?

Have you ever seen the movie Brazil?

I have not.

Terry Gilliam classic.

It's pretty freaky.

He had a really hard time at the studio

because he went wildly over budget.

The movie he delivered was way long.

It wasn't really commercially viable.

But it is a classic.

He's a crazy person.

Have you ever seen 12 Monkeys?

No.

12 Monkeys is probably the tightest.

He didn't do any drugs during filming.

Terry Gilliam movie.

And it's very, very good.

Very, very good.

All right, it's quiz time.

Yes.

Are you ready?

I am ready.

This topic, because you chose the other topic last week.

Yes.

Is red.

Red.

Got it.

Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast

brought to you by Consumer Guide.

Yes.

Today's topic is red question mark.

OK.

I'm going to give you a car model and two names

of red colors.

You have to tell me which one is real.

OK.

Wow.

Wow, you should be way more excited about this.

You know, I mean.

This took time.

I had to make up five fake colors.

Uh-huh.

You should have talked to.

And then look up.

There's like research.

There is an hour in this quiz.

You should have talked to Lashole Turner.

I bet she could have helped you come up with some good names.

Yeah.

I'm sure she's got nothing to do.

From Solantis.

She was one of my favorite casts, by the way.

She's working on interior colors right now for the Cherokee.

OK.

I imagine.

Yeah.

I'm sure those are locked in.

Maybe.

All right, are you ready?

Yes.

2025 Ford Maverick XLT.

OK.

I'm going to give you two colors.

One of these is fake.

Are you ready?

Mm-hmm.

Ruby red metallic tinted clear coat.

Deep crimson mic up.

I need the fake color.

Or the real one.

Give me the real color.

I feel like Ruby is going to be real.

Ruby red metallic tinted clear coat?

Yeah.

It is.

That's the real color, the real red on the Ford Maverick XLT.

Not all Mavericks get red.

Your base trim levels get all the crappy boring colors.

Deep crimson mic is faked.

Ruby red metallic is a $390 option.

OK, yeah.

The reds, like the brighter colors,

usually are the premium color and often

carry an extra price.

Yes, they do.

Yeah.

All right, you have one point.

There's five questions plus the bonus question.

Bonus question always related to the topic of the day.

OK.

You need to get three total.

OK.

Of the six.

All right, 2025 Nissan GTR Premium.

That is Nissan sports car.

That's going away.

Starts at $125,000.

I've not seen one in years.

No.

But I think they're selling all of them they want to.

Yeah.

Two colors.

Are you ready?

Dutch Isle Red or Solid Red?

Solid Red is kind of a boring name.

It is.

Dutch Isle Red, Solid Red.

Those Dutch in their red colors.

Tulips?

Tulips are red?

I don't know.

I'm just making conversation.

Roses are red, violets are blue.

Going to need an answer at some point.

Dutch Isle Red, Solid Red.

I think Solid Red's going to be real.

It is.

I'm like, that's a boring name.

But I feel like that Nissan, their strong suit,

is not names.

Well, after getting smoked last quiz,

you got the first two right here.

Yeah.

You're making up for last time.

I'm making up for last time.

All right.

The 2025 Buick Invista Avenir.

We were just talking about the Invista with Sam.

We might lose that car.

Yeah.

That's depressing.

It is a little sad.

It is weird that Buick sells a lot of affordable vehicles.

That's not really Buick's role, but what the heck?

Sales or sales?

Cinnabar Metallic or Cinnamon Metallic?

Cinnabar, Cinnamon.

I mean, I'm eating a cinnamon donut right now.

You are.

You're making a mess of it, too.

I made a bigger mess of the peanut butter.

I was going to say no more of a mess

than your peanut butter donut.

I mean, I actually need a shower.

A shower and maybe a paramedic.

And maybe a paramedic.

Yeah, that donut went horribly wrong on me.

I know CPR, so we should be good.

Cinnabar or Cinnamon?

I'm going to go with Cinnabar.

You are correct.

You've already won.

Where was this Jill last week?

That Jill apparently was just warming up.

Do you know what Cinnabar is?

No.

Because I didn't.

I feel like I've looked it up, but I've forgotten.

I will forget this after I read this.

It's a mineral composed mostly of mercury and sulfur.

So there you have it.

You have three.

Yes.

And cinnamon is what you're making a mess of right now.

I mean, I'm keeping it on the napkin.

I guess you are.

I guess.

The studio is always super clean when we get here.

I know.

And then you leave it trashed.

You leave it trashed with your peanut butter.

Like a hotel room after a concert.

2025 Honda Ridgeline.

OK.

They're pickup truck.

The one of the most unloved vehicles,

undeservedly unloved vehicles out there.

Radiant Red Metallic or Night Red?

Ooh.

Radiant Red Metallic, Night Red.

I'm going to go with Radiant Red Metallic.

Night Red sounds like a forgotten cop drama.

I was going to say Night Rider.

Yeah.

Night Red would be like a good name for a cop show in Moscow.

OK.

What did you say?

The first one.

Radiant Red Metallic?

Yeah.

Yes.

It's a $455 option.

OK.

You have got four in a row.

You're on a hot streak.

Wow.

Last time you were going to lose them all.

This time you're going to win them all.

Now you've jinxed me.

Thanks.

You could have this.

OK.

I'm going to say a word.

2025 Toyota Corolla Cross LE.

OK.

Bask Steel Metallic or Soul Red Crystal?

OK.

Spell Bask.

B-A-S-Q-U-E.

OK.

And then spell Soul.

Soul.

Not the city.

S-U-L.

S-O-U-L.

OK.

Well, I'm like Soul S-O-L-E. I don't know.

Oh, I had thought of that.

Yeah.

Soul Red Crystal.

Bask Steel Metallic.

Those Bask in their reds.

I know.

Spaniards.

Well, they wouldn't want to be called Spaniards.

I had a friend, one of the most obscure things ever.

But like in high school, he used to run around claiming

he was a Bask separatist.

OK.

Which was hilarious.

And a strange thing for a 17-year-old to do.

Yeah.

But there you have it.

Clearly he had read something in history.

OK.

Bask Steel Metallic Soul Red Crystal.

Going to need an answer.

I know.

I want it to be Bask.

Don't we all?

I want it to be that one.

But I think it's going to be the Soul Red.

There's a story here.

Are you going with Soul Red?

Yeah.

Yes.

Oh.

Here's what's weird about that.

You were giving me a look, so I thought I was wrong.

No.

Soul Red Crystal is a $475 option on the Corolla Cross.

But here's the weird thing.

And I thought you'd pounce on this.

Soul Red Crystal is a Mazda color.

Yeah.

And it's actually available on the car my daughter bought.

The weird thing about it is the Corolla Cross

is built in the same factory as the Mazda CX-50.

So they have Soul Red in the print shop, ready to go.

So Mazda is letting Toyota use that pink color.

You know, there is a Toyota Crown, the wagon.

Signia.

Yes.

So Toyota Crown Signia in my neighborhood.

And I pass it every day.

And it is that red.

I wonder if there's...

I don't know if it extends outside of that factory,

but it might be a similar color.

It is.

I mean, it is, to me, I look at it every time.

It makes me do a double take, because I

feel like I'm looking at a Mazda,

and it's actually a Toyota Crown Signia.

All right.

You got five in a row.

Woo.

You can go for the sweep with this question.

All right.

Now, are you ready for a little Tesla action here?

Is it actually a Tesla question?

Kind of.

Are you familiar with the Tesla diner?

Eh.

Yeah.

It opened July 21st, 2025.

It's on Santa Monica Boulevard in Hollywood.

Yes.

And it is a diner.

Yes.

Kind of a modern design.

People should check it out.

Just, you know, kind of forget your Tesla hate

and just check this out, because it's kind of cool.

Yes.

And the idea is that this is something

that people can do when they're charging.

Yes.

So it's a foreign drive-in diner where you can charge.

And other people are free to steal this concept,

and they probably will, because it's not a terrible idea.

Anyway, they've had some changes with their menu.

OK.

I have four items from the menu here.

One of them is fake.

OK.

You need to tell me what is not on the menu

while you're charging your Model X at the Tesla diner.

All right.

Are you ready?

Uh-huh.

The Cali Breakfast Tacos.

Uh-huh.

The Wagyu beef chili, the tuna melt.

And I'm forced to ask at what temperature tuna melts

are the Baltimore pot stickers.

Cali Breakfast Tacos, Wagyu beef chili, tuna melt,

Baltimore pot stickers.

Also, the photography of this food is absolutely outstanding.

Check it out.

You can, it's online.

Or go find the website for the Tesla diner.

Yeah.

Maybe I should do that right now

to see what's on the menu.

Bad idea.

I won't do it.

I won't cheat.

So I feel like the tacos have to be real.

The Cali Breakfast Tacos?

Yeah.

OK.

You're calling those real?

Yeah.

Checking it off.

All right.

And then what was the second one?

The Wagyu beef chili.

I want that to be real.

But do people eat chili in California?

I don't know.

Yeah.

If it's a Wagyu, they might.

That's fair.

That is fair.

Is Wagyu still hip and trendy?

I don't know.

It feels like something that should have gotten to Arby's

by now.

That's my rule for things.

If a culinary trend gets to Arby's, it's dead.

That's the rule.

And I totally didn't set my timer.

Oh, no, we got like three minutes.

You're like 3 and 1 1 o'clock.

I'm like, I didn't set my timer.

Yeah.

And then the tuna melt.

That just sounds icky, but I could see that being real.

So I think it's going to either be the chili or the.

The Baltimore Pot Stickers.

Baltimore famous for their pot stickers.

Famous.

Yeah, I'm going to go with this pot stickers.

That's fake.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's fake.

Nice job.

You went six for six.

I have redeemed myself from last week.

The pictures of the Kelly breakfast tacos are fabulous.

All right, I'm signing this for you.

Six for six.

There you go.

Awesome.

This is your deserved assigned quiz.

All right.

Good show today.

Yeah.

Your article.

We didn't talk about this last week, but your article about the Salterra.

Yes.

Is up at consumerguide.com.

Yes.

So I'd say as we speak, but that's not two weeks ago.

Yes.

And I have a video review on my YouTube channel as well.

All right.

And then what is the outdoorsy version of this that's coming?

Well, so they have two new SUVs, EVs that are coming.

The Uncharted and then the Trailseeker.

Trailseeker.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's what I forgot.

So I think we'll see the Trailseeker next and then Uncharted after that.

Is Trailseeker basically a version of the BZ, the Toyota BZ Woodland?

I think so.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

And it's slightly different dimensionally for some reason.

Actually way back when we were talking to Joel Federer, he kind of had a handle on

this whole situation because I think we heard about the Subaru first.

Yes.

He was like, there's no way there's going to be a Subaru and not a Toyota.

And he was right.

Yeah.

And then the Uncharted is built on the same platform as the Toyota CHR.

Lots of clabs here.

Yeah.

The CHR is interesting.

It was a small crossover here in the US.

They didn't have all wheel drive unfortunately, but fun little car.

I like the CHR.

Yeah.

I like it more than the Corolla Cross.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Also, I fit in it even though it was small.

So that's a nice thing too.

All right.

Guess what we did?

We had another great show.

Yeah.

Thanks to Sam Fiorani of Auto Forkast Solutions.

Thank you, Jill.

Thanks to producer Randy and the good folks here at TalkZone.

Let's talk more about cars again next week.

Next week.

Remember to check us out at ConsumerGuide.com.

The Car Stuff podcast is produced by J-Turn Media.

To advertise on the show, please drop us a line at carstuffatconsumerguide.com.

Thank you.

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