OTOSOT 68

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I'm Richard Porter. I'm Johnny Smith.

And this is On the Other Side of Things, the Smith & Sniff spinoff in which we answer your questions.

Hello again. Hi. Question answering time.

And I think I'm going to start, if I may, with one from a listener called Jack,

who says, a hypothetical project for you.

A wealthy businessman has sought you out as the perfect pair to revive what he feels is the ultimate motorsport, WRC.

He's right. Hypothetical businessman.

Yes. He's particularly passionate about 90s rallying.

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is with an essentially unlimited budget

to bring the WRC back to its 90s heyday.

Which manufacturers would you approach to get involved?

They can be new or old. And which car from their range would you like to see compete?

Gosh.

Now, I assume Jack means just like cars and manufacturers now

but to make rallying as good as it was in the 90s.

Well, rather than bringing back a defunct manufacturer.

Well, the alternative way of looking at this is to recreate 90s WRC.

So you've got your impractices and your evos in there.

Yes.

Maybe a focus.

But you could chuck in other 90s manufacturers.

So you could be really stupid and go, yeah, do you know what I want?

I want a Rover 75 WRC.

But I don't know which way to go with this one.

I suppose Shaz up the WRC now.

Yeah, you want to revive it.

So you want more eyes on it, I suppose.

Yeah.

So yeah, you could.

I mean, because I was thinking, well, hang on, Lancia still exists, doesn't it?

Yeah.

But I don't know what the stage of comeback.

Yeah.

So I mean, I can't remember the exact cars that are on sale right now with Lancia.

But logic to me would say the integrale was still dominating in the early 90s, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Pre-impretza.

So pre, really, the legacy RS had done much serious WRC work.

Yeah.

So I'm thinking with my UR Kanken and hat on, would you get Lancia to go,

guys, pretty much every time you try and come back, it's crap.

So this is your chance to remind people that Lancia have done some amazing things.

Everybody loves the integrale.

You've got lots of resto mods.

So maybe bring back an iteration, a silhouette of the Delta Integ.

And then if you want to get a boozy sponsor, you can to get the stripes.

You don't have to.

Or you could even just go full Euros back and like, I don't know,

find someone like United Colors of Benetton to do something really 90s with you.

And just bloody go for it.

I think that would be amazing.

It wouldn't be EV.

It would still be piston, but maybe with hybrid assistance if the rules allow.

But then we're getting bogged down in this hypothetical question, probably.

Well, yeah, I'm going to sort of not ignore the question,

but it's just that if money is unlimited and at the risk of enraging this mythical

bozzlesman who loves 90s rallying.

Yeah.

It's from Bristol, almost certainly.

Yes.

Yes, he loves today's rallying.

Let's look at this way because what would have happened to 90s rallying

if Group B hadn't been cancelled?

Ah, OK.

So let's pretend it wasn't.

Then let's look at what Group B cars would be like in sake of argument 1995.

So like a 10 year evolution of Group B.

Exactly.

I mean, I know sort of Group S was there to come along,

which is basically kind of Group B plus.

I'm down with that.

Let's do that.

Fuck it.

I don't mind.

In the spirit of that, the limited production for homologation

hyper exaggerated, effectively like silhouette cars

because they are barely related to the cars they're supposed to look like.

In Ford's case, they can do whatever the RS200 would have become

because they wanted a car that didn't look like anything they sold

because that was different in different parts of the world.

And just run wild.

That's a great idea.

With the tech, they are surely as fast as Group B cars.

Group B cars weren't actually that powerful.

They were just, for the time they were seen as a bit unruly.

Current WRC cars are way faster than Group B.

It's the control that they've got.

It's mostly things I think it's damping and grip.

Because you've got electronics to do with fuel injection

and attraction management and all those sorts of amazing things

and distribution of the torque between axles, all those things.

Man, and also thinking, you suddenly reminded me when you mentioned Subaru,

Subaru don't do anything sexy anymore.

So maybe Subaru should be the poster child of this

and go, we're going to build a homologation car

and we're going hard again.

And us lot and perhaps a big cluster of people in Colorado will go, yeah.

And then Subaru becomes sexy again.

WRC gets all the eyes again.

Oh man, I'm excited about this thing which won't happen.

Yeah.

Well, so as to who we want involved.

I was tempted to go that for some reason it becomes the law.

And if you want to be allowed to sell cars, you have to be in this rally series.

But I realized Rolls-Royce may go, not really sorts of on brand for us.

Maybe they wouldn't.

Hang on, you say that though.

But Rolls has got a really young demographic now who are a bit more out there.

Yes.

And a bit more accepting of, you know, if Rolls entered pro drift,

I think it would get really lots of positive attention

if the car was built right and it did the things it was supposed to do

and all the video clips you'd see and share.

It would be like, yeah, I'll have a bit of that.

Wouldn't you?

Yeah.

I think it would be fantastic.

That's a fair point.

Interesting challenge for Land Rover.

But then again, no, because, you know, they're doing,

there's a Dakar defenders and things like that get some of that going on.

Everybody's got to have a go.

Give it your best shot.

And I can't wait to see what Ferrari come up with.

Well, you'd have the Ferrari could do some great stuff.

But, you know, 308s were rallied.

Yeah.

Everybody's got, whether they realize it or not,

a little bit of rally heritage that could be used here.

But and whether they have to use a car of theirs from the 90s as the shape.

Would you call it B side?

Yeah.

The continuation of the group B.

Yeah.

B side.

Well, we're all getting a bit hot under the collar about that.

Thanks, Jack.

I know, I think we are.

That's something to mull on.

But okay, I hope that sort of answers your question,

even in a slightly obtuse way, Jack.

Well, next question is from a chap called James McDougal.

Hi, you flute duets.

Or a flute duet, even.

As an avid peruser of the classifies,

constantly chasing the dream car that does everything,

40 classic, enough luggage space,

maybe a convertible quick, but fuel efficient, et cetera, et cetera.

I've noticed a high decline in value in older classics,

such as 1960s MG beers and trap dolomites and the likes.

Even the E types are dropping in price.

Yes, they are.

So my question to you guys is,

do you think this is a blep?

And do you think they'll level out?

Or do you think that just everyone's getting older

and the popularity currently sits with 90s hot hatches?

Kind regards.

James, I am a patron.

Thank you, James.

That's very kind of you for being a patron.

That means a lot.

Thank you.

I was writing about this just the other day

in a sort of tangential way,

because I've noticed the same thing as James.

Definitely your top level classics,

250 GTOs and things like that,

they're not going anywhere.

They just keep going up because they are essentially

a vessel for the super rich to store cash in.

They're immune.

They're comfortable, keep appreciating.

So they're immune.

But your lower rung classics,

and the E type is a great case in point.

The fact is that the people who had those cars

on their bedroom walls as kids are dying out.

And so there's less demand, less interest.

It's almost like if you haven't made your fortune enough

to treat yourself to a frivolous 60 sports car

that you always dreamt of when you were a child,

it's probably not going to happen.

So the natural market for it is dwindling.

And I think probably they'll drop.

They're not going to crash.

You're not going to go back to the days

when you get any type for five grand or something.

They will sink to a point where then people

will start noticing they've got cheaper.

And that'll probably trigger some demand, I imagine,

which will stabilize things.

Or it needs, yeah, a key, probably younger people

in the automotive world to hook into.

I mean, you've got things like, yeah, E types.

Everyone knows about an E type, even if you don't want one.

But they're also lesser known cars,

60s, 50s, 40s, which were interesting

or fantastic or fast and pioneering.

And they are gradually getting forgotten

unless there are worthy front runner in historical racing

at something like the Goodwood Revival,

where you know that people will purchase it

who are competitive and go,

that car, that's a front runner.

I'm having it.

I suppose that's a niche within a niche, though, isn't it?

That's the thing that, you know,

the small market and E types,

MGBs as another example, aren't that rare.

No, they're not.

No.

How's the 911 done what it's done, though?

Because you look at, I suppose,

E type values, they rose too quick

and then they became a victim of that, is what I'm thinking.

And XJS, we're in a weird place with the XJS,

for example, because TWR, you know,

are shouting from the treetops about this Resto mod thing.

And there's a few other people out there doing Resto mod

or about to do Resto mod XJSes.

And yet, as I see the auctions last week

and the week before,

it is a really good time to buy an XJS.

You can buy a nice XJS with not even any rust

for like six grand, which was never a thing.

You used to better buy them for a thousand quid

and I think you probably still can buy really good ones.

But I think they're firming up, though, XJSes.

I think that people are starting to cotton on to the fact that

and particularly something sought after for its rarity

and originality like an early V12 manual

because there's fairly few of those around.

Yes.

So they're definitely, yeah, you're right.

You can get a decent one for still quite reasonable money,

but I've noticed people trying their luck.

They have.

Posting really solid attractive cars for, you know,

sort of 20 and above,

which just didn't seem to be a thing a few years ago.

But that's, it's also an age thing, isn't it?

Because it's like they are now the generation

that liked an XJS.

Also, the XJS is a complicated one, isn't it?

Because the world's kind of come round to it.

And that's...

It needs high-profile, SEMA-style rest-o-modding, I think.

I think it'll come, won't it?

Yeah, companies like our friends at Retropower,

they're really good at taking a car.

They're doing right now.

They're doing an unbelievably extreme simitar,

reliant simitar.

That is not a...

Unfortunately, they're not a very valuable car,

even though they're a good car.

In fact, I keep thinking to myself,

what a great thing to have,

and what a great rest-o-mod,

because it's just Ford running gear with a plastic body on it.

Cool.

I just think, yeah, there's lots...

It's a really good time to buy,

and it's a really good time to probably be bold

and do some modifying of a more common car.

The reason I was writing about this

was I was doing a piece for Copassetic

about that eccentric Diablo

that we saw briefly at Goodwood in the summer.

Yes.

Which is, for people who haven't seen it,

it's a Lamborghini Diablo,

but it's a rest-o-mod,

so they've completely reskinned it in carbon-fibre

and used that to be able to tweak the styling a little bit.

Got very neat headlights.

They look like pop-ups when they're closed,

but rather than popping up,

there are hinges at the front of each cover

and they drop down to reveal the lights behind.

So it's full of nice little details like that,

totally redone interior, very smart,

but sort of retro, knowingly,

sort of 90s-ish, early 90s look.

And it's not cheap,

but it's clearly just chiming with a generation

that had the Diablo on their bedroom wall.

Same reason that Impressors and Evos

are now getting quite pricey,

because there's a whole generation of kids

who love those cars,

played them in games and stuff like that.

The point I was making in the story that I wrote

is that rest-o-mods have traditionally been on 60s cars,

obviously 9-11s.

I know Singer used 90s and 9-11s,

but they make them look sort of 60s-ish, traditionally.

They've moved forward into the 80s

and restored rest-o-moded minis

and old alphas and things like that

have been the sort of bedrock of the rest-o-mod world.

I think we're going to start seeing

a lot more 80s and 90s rest-o-mods.

In fact, we sort of already are.

We are.

And it will grow.

Singer doing their turbos and that new

Carrera sports hack thing that they're doing.

There was that Amos Automobili Delta Integrale

a few years ago.

Someone has done a 928 now as well.

Yes.

It's not in our own.

I think we're going to see a lot more of this.

For the same reason, the people who are sort of

in the prime of their earning potential

are people who grew up in the 80s and 90s now.

And they're the ones who have potentially

the disposable income to drop hundreds of thousands

which rest-o-mods usually cost

on something that looks like a childhood fantasy car

but drives in a way that you can actually use

and enjoy and feels a bit more modern.

And I will end this conversation

which we could talk more about, maybe we will

in the main podcast, but by saying

as new launched supercars

just become, I think, less and less relevant

and less and less about being able to be

satisfactorily driven on a normal road setting

the increase in interest of stuff like rest-o-mods

will continue.

And that's where my money's going.

Do I want to buy a brand new middle-ranking Ferrari

that I've got to lick Ferrari's bum to get?

Yeah.

And all I'm doing is being worried about

how much the next service is going to cost

and if I do a thousand miles this year

which I'd love to, it's going to be worth this much less.

Or do I go, you know what, bollocks to that.

I'll have an XJS rest-o-mod

which will feel faster and more bloody lairy

than the Ferrari and more different

to any car show I attend

and probably cost me, what, a quarter?

I mean, I don't know, probably less than that.

So I would champion that.

That's where I'm looking and that's where I'm excited about it.

Fair enough.

Yeah, that's right, mate.

Do you know what I mean?

In a world where January is supposed to be boring,

one staple of the holidays refuses to end.

end the great deals at Verizon the joy just keeps on coming right now you can

save on four new phones and four lines critics agree it's the deal that keeps

on giving come into Verizon and save on four new phones and four lines on

unlimited welcome additional terms apply see Verizon.com for details

move on to a quick question from Tom who says I saw the new micro leaner car at

the weekend and had a chance to get a good look around it have either of you

got any thoughts on it I'm sorely tempted to get one as a city runaround but then

I do live in Bristol so perhaps a BMW i zeta would be more period appropriate

well no actually I think a Fiat Cinquecento sporting would be a word for a

Cinquecento yeah yeah I have done a review of the micro leaner a while back

now on the late break show and it was a car that I have been following the

story of since seeing it many moons ago I think it was the 2017 Geneva Motor

Show where I met the micro scooter family and I love it I think it was

delayed in production because of COVID but also some other things they were

trying to refine it I think they've they've spent a lot of time getting it

right and I think it's really good it feels well built it feels fun it feels

like you could genuinely use it in the in the urban areas that it's designed

for and everybody everybody loves seeing it everybody yes that's that

sort of counts for something isn't it it's it's a car that makes people

smile yeah it's this this cheaper cars out there absolutely and they've said

this you know you are paying a slight premium for exclusivity and being

that unusual person that drives that car but at the end of the day it's a

characterful car that you really can use every every single day and it's very

comfortable for two people and it actually has a boot way bigger than I

was expecting so yeah I think the build quality is ace I think the shape

of its ace really yeah genuinely I think it's it's it had me it won me over I

think you should try a bloody little bit make over who I don't actually I'm

embarrassed to say I don't really know a lot about it I think I did watch your

review but where are they made they're made in are they made in Switzerland I

want to say they're made in Switzerland or Italy I should know this but I've

probably reviewed about a hundred cars since but what I what you do feel is that

there's although it's a small car it's a bit like the original smart it's a small

car but it feels very substantial and it feels like it's it's it's been well

thought through well screwed together and it will last and so that's why

when I saw what price they were going to try and sell it for I was like you

know what that's that's expected there are plenty of chances in the car

world are asking hundreds of thousands of pounds for stuff that's just like not

simply not worth it so how much are they I think they start in the 30s oh really

I think so they change again they they changed a lot let me just go on that I

don't want to be that person that tells fibs so I'm going on the website

very quickly ladies and gents very quickly Michael you know explore blah blah

that's one of those things where oh well it says here it starts at 17,990

pounds oh well I'm I've got it completely wrong then I'm an imbecile this is

some I know you the entry level one is the one with a smaller battery and

this right so the lower range which really you okay probably wouldn't but I

probably wouldn't bother with yes this looks like it's that that price is for

the one with the range of 34 miles but even if it's even if it's mid 20s yes

there are a lot of people who will go I just have a Renault 5 please and I and I

get it I do get that but this is a buying with your kind of heart and and less

about your head I think I think you're going to be spending mid 20s on one by

the time you've expected a bit but it does look cool doesn't it is I'm sort of

slightly obsessed with how cheap the Dacia spring can be found which is the

opposite of that because that is not a cool-looking car no it's a it's a

perfect yeah it is they're very sort of dorky looking they've tried their best

with the design but they are definitely trying to shift them and so I sort of

always curious to know they haven't yet dropped below a hundred quid a month on

a PCP as far as I can tell why do you keep looking I just I'm fascinated so

also the problem is that the base model with this the slower power motor yeah

seems like it might be a bit wretched and obviously that's where the headline

numbers come from you can have one of those for 102 quid a month last I looked

and that's basically a hundred pounds they're just about to drop below ten

grand for a nearly new one if you want to buy outright so obviously it's a lot

less than a microlino but then it just doesn't look as nice yeah probably you

know in terms of that sort of sense of quality that you're saying the

microlino feels my career feels really good feels really really high quality but

some like the Honda here but then I just think to myself if I second hand on the

Honda e-now firm 12 grand and that's a gorgeous amazing little carrot seem to

have crept up in value again a little bit I think I've been shouting about

them I blame I blame me rich it's probably your fault I also it's worth

saying I mean this is also I suppose relevant if Tom just wants a little

electric city run around for Bristol the fear 500 ease are dipping below ten

grand now it's good choice I think you could you could find one with the bigger

battery for that last I looked yes hovering around there so yeah it's

rich but obviously that's the second-hand car that's probably like

four-year-old car it depends what you want well we can talk about that for a

while we are actually people do say they enjoy listening to real advice on

the auto-sort so I don't know whether to say that as a compliment not sure we've

got a letter here from cove Bahaduri yo Ricardo and j-boy you pair of dusty

meat rat strumbers wow I don't know what I don't know what that really means I

was about to say oh that's quite a it's nice to have someone who starts with

a sort of upbeat intro rather than an insult but but he's tucked that in

there he's added to three really interesting pictures here so this is on

the subject of four by four ice cream trucks guys whilst holidaying recently on

the Pembrokeshire coast south Wales I perchance across these two beauties see

pictures attached well the pictures attached Richard as you probably can

see there's an 1990 Mitsubishi shogun ice cream van so two-door

short wheelbase amazing seen this and then there's a two-door would be a 90 oh no

won't be in a Land Rover Defender 90 it'd be a longer wheelbase it would be based

on a pickup I guess yeah that's a 110 I think it might even be a 130 but no I

think it's a 110 so again a photo an all-terrain ice cream van and his

question is two-fold given I'm predicting a straight split down the

middle here in brackets he's put which which is your steed of choice for a long

hot summer season in Tenby if you happen to be a four by four beach gelato

purveyor is it the chrome bumpered Mitsubishi shogun which I love the look

of those or is it the death and then and then he's he's added also to drive

away from the pure car rhetoric as seems to be the accepted stance on this

automotive podcast with the wall slash mr. Whippy element be a factor for you

okay so so the the shogun has got walls ice cream livery whereas the Defender

has got big mr. Whippy plastic ice cream cones bolted to the front of it so

for people listening these are both ice cream van conversion so they've had this

whole back put on them yes extends out over the roof of the front seats and makes

them much taller and then obviously has the bit in the back where you can stand

up and serve ice creams and I think I mean I still feel like you'd struggle to

stand all we both quite tall but yeah particularly the show that's actually

a that's an import isn't it I think that's a Japanese import because it's

right-hand drive that shogun but it's got Pajero badges on the front

wings I think mmc badge on the front chromey grill which isn't quite the way

that they came here so that's a that's a JDM shogun slash Pajero

been been converted so immediately I'm going oh no over 30 year olds Japanese

market car that's now being made to live by the British seaside it's I mean

bloody hope that's been rust-proofed that would need to be rust-proofed every

other week rich not just once a year

goodness now obviously the defender is

in fact it was I said geez a 1990 so but it was a 110 I think so it's

that's also particularly because cobs pictured it

actually on the beach it's on the sand you can see it's touching salt

but the defender chassis industry is

well equipped to rust proof or replaced with a golf chassis

if you need it so I hope that's been done

uh it's seagolf as they call it when they know a car's been by the coast it's

seagolf seagolf um yeah so you know that it's resistant to

coastal climate the Land Rover looks to me to be

top-heavy yes worries me it does look top-heavy

it does I can't it's like but I think it's got a higher roof as in so you

could stand up you'd probably be more comfortable working in there

that's what I'm thinking yeah I I think I could just about maybe stand up in

that but uh I it worries me that it would

be appalling to drive because it's so lollipay

I just don't know uh it's got a winch on the front as well hasn't it and some

weird non-standard indicator side light units that I don't understand

yes why those have been put on no they look a bit strange I don't know what

would you go for I'm going I'm going Pajero slash

um Shogun on the basis of well I love those early

front ends but also the tyres that it's got on it

I can't zoom in on my computer is it called the wide conqueror radial rt

is it wide conqueror wide it is wide conqueror what a straight one

radial at so what a strange name for a tire why and it's in white letters wide

conqueror I'm a wide conqueror we should

decided that we should pass this on to the ssgs

at the cream podcast because they collect a terrible tire brand names

oh do they and that's that's terrible I don't know there's a party is tempted to

go for the for the Mitsubishi however when it comes to the other part of the

question walls versus mr wippy I'm afraid I've got to go mr wippy

do you okay I don't like getting like something

like a you know because what if you get in the walls your walls Pajero there

you're going to be selling cornettos and walls

feasts and things like that yes it's like you can buy those in supermarkets

they're not special enough not by the seaside you get an ice cream

you want to mr with you with a flake in it

okay so you you feel like you're going to overpay for something underwhelming

yes right that's like like having an old Land Rover ice cream

it's funny how we've delved in quite deep to this question from kov but I

appreciate it's too deep I feel but anyway that's

kov asked us for an answer and there it is damn it we've given it to there

we have all right well that's probably enough for the question

answering this week back with a normal show on Monday and more questions

answered on Friday if you'd like to ask us anything

hello at smithandsniff.com put our to sort in your subject line

if it's a question it makes it easier for us to find

until next time goodbye bye everyone cheers mate thanks mate bye

in a world where January is supposed to be boring

one staple of the holidays refuses to end the great deals at Verizon

the joy just keeps on coming right now you can save on four new phones and four

lines critics agree it's the deal that keeps on

coming to Verizon and save on four new phones and four lines on

unlimited welcome additional terms apply see Verizon.com for details

OTOSOT 68

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RS200

Peugeot 308

Ferrari 250 GTO

MG MGB

Porsche 911

Jaguar Xjs

Lamborghini Diablo

5 Renault 5

Dacia Spring

Toyota A90

Land Rover Defender

Alpine A110

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