Porsche Prices, Tesla Track Mayhem & The Myth of the “Investment” Car 💸 | Full Throttle Talk

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Right by the beach.

So where's your coffee mugs guys?

Where's my coffee mugs?

You got to come on Tim and just hit record.

Don't tell us.

In fact, you're usually on first just hit record.

So we come into it.

You are going to have to watch the first 10 minutes and until Joshua and Ann like start

it at this point because some of it may not be good.

I've got a question for you.

I'm really hoping I get to the point in my life where I can wake up in the morning and

just like, you know, look in the mirror and say, I just don't give a damn.

I'm just going to just look how I look and to go on live camera.

That's amazing.

That is that's a level of self confidence.

I'll never have what I knew.

I was never going to win any awards.

Yeah, you get what you get, man.

I mean, what do you what are you doing here?

I mean, by the way, Paul, what makes you think I'm not already recording?

Oh, sweet.

Five by oh, then you'll get to hear.

You'll get to hear Dave and I talk about the days, which is really a good

conversation. Yes, we had we had a quick day conversation.

So five o'clock, three o'clock, I look the same.

In fact, I might be in Germany right now and it's three in the afternoon, four

in the afternoon. You don't know. Anywhere you go, black t-shirt,

hat. Yeah.

Nicely trimmed beard.

Yeah, ready to go.

I had a great watch last week and we didn't talk about watches.

So well, I wore a decent one here today.

I got at least an interesting weight.

Don't say anything yet as Tim will save it.

OK, well, since we're all here and I finally got all my technical problems

fixed and Paul's done having his morning shakes.

Hey, Paul, I want to start out by saying thanks for sending out the invite

from the newsletter to your own newsletter.

The take rate was astonishingly good.

Your folks in your newsletter clearly love you.

So yeah, that's great.

They're a good group of people and I'm so careful not to spam them that

when I send something out, they look at it because they know that

it's something important to me.

Well, so the newsletter itself is really turning out to be

something pretty spectacular.

And I don't know if you guys have been paying attention, but we've added

the private Facebook page for everyone that belongs to the newsletter.

So we're going to be able to take these conversations forward

through the newsletter into the private Facebook community,

which has always been, you know, you and I talked about that in January, Paul.

And the other thing that's really amazing is the articles you guys

are creating are phenomenal.

Are you paying attention to the feedback?

We're getting on all the articles that are being posted.

They love them.

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So guys, welcome to this week's Full Thrill Talk.

And let's jump right in.

What did you do in cars this week, starting with Casey?

Pretty, pretty simple a couple of days.

But yesterday I went, whether in Maryland's been beautiful today,

it's going to be 70 and the foliage is awesome.

But yesterday I went for a good rip in two different cars.

Went for a rip in the nice 74 MFI that's behind me here in the picture.

That is a really cool car finished in what Porsche in 1974 called orange,

which is a very clever name for the color.

And it's it was a great rip.

And then I did something.

I went for a ride in kind of the opposite of that.

I didn't grab a picture of it, unfortunately, but you can all use your imagination.

It was a a black slant nose cab.

And I will tell you that traditionally I am not a 930 guy and I am not a slant nose guy.

But it was a it's a completely original stock car.

And I just went for a nice nice run in it.

And I will tell you that Gali, it was awesome.

It felt like you could cross a continent in that car with no issues at all.

So 100 100 percent great drive yesterday, just a nice little rip.

Casey, quick question.

When you say a little rip, like what is like in that in the orange?

I called a continental orange.

I forgot that that was orange.

What is a nice trip?

Like how far? What kind of roads?

What are you allowed to do?

It's a mix.

Basically, we're getting to the point where the weather is starting to get cruddy.

So I do a little bit of a longer run in them around this time of year.

So yesterday's drives in those two cars were about.

Twenty seven, twenty eight miles.

And that was a mix of back roads, highway and a tiny bit of stop and go.

I just want to make sure that everything seated correctly.

I topped off tanks, make sure that the stable was in them,

because a lot of it moving forward.

Of course, if the roads are cruddy, the driving is limited

because, you know, a lot of this car like the seventy four is a, you know,

non galvanized car.

The last thing you would ever want to do is drive a car like that in salt

or any any car that still is super original with, you know,

a lot of the cosmolines still intact underneath the bottom of the car.

That actually brings up an interesting question.

I don't know completely the answer to maybe you guys know, especially Dave, frankly.

So if a car is galvanized and they start galvanizing after nineteen eighty four,

correct, nine elevens, seventy five was the last year.

OK, so galvanization is just essentially a treatment that goes on top of the metal

before they actually do the pain, the priming and the panning and whatnot.

So if the if that surface, if it's original paint

and the galvanization is never messed with over time, does that metals?

Is it still work or does it just essentially become ineffective over time?

What causes a galvanized car to rust?

I guess is my question.

It'll just protect it for a longer period of time.

They will all rust if they're treated badly.

I.E., you know, as Casey was suggesting, there's a few spots on nine elevens

in particular where the dirt will get thrown up into the car off the back wheels

and so on and pack its way in under the at the base of the door jam.

There are not, you know, kind of at the backside of the door jam at the threshold.

And if it packs in there and sits there long enough, it'll eat the car from the inside out.

And so you that's one of those places when you're looking at kind of any nine eleven.

You want to be taking your thumb and pressing it down and those areas

just to see if it's soft right there at the threshold.

And I know Tim, you know, the spot on your car that you had questions about right there.

Remember the the side that you asked me? Yeah.

That's the spot. It'll rust there for sure.

Definitely up front.

Doesn't matter that the battery box, a lot of the cars batteries overflow.

We've got one here right now.

The rest of the car is perfect, but somebody had it in long term storage

and boiled the battery, battery just boiled over onto the front of the car.

And that's right where the suspension members actually attach.

You know, the arm attaches right there at the front of the car

and that will rust out completely if that battery acid gets in there.

So those are two pretty common places, obviously around the cowl as well,

where water will get in behind the seal on the windshield,

run down and sit in the bottom of that cowl.

You'll get rust down there, too.

Those are kind of normal spots on the seventy five

gloss car that you want to be looking at.

Well, you could even get those same problems in like a nine sixty four.

I've seen nine sixty fours around the back windshields and stuff and whatnot.

So in Southern California, dry Southern California,

usually like nine nine threes, nine six fours, even G and G bodies.

We see it in the cow, especially by the beach communities,

because if they're outside at all and they get that morning dew,

which is filled with salt water, it just pulls up there.

Also the rear window in the rear corners, if you ever wipe your windows,

you notice there's like a pool of liquid there.

But the even the early galvanized cars where we see problems is.

You know, in the wheel wells, you know, these wheels are spinning,

they're throwing rocks.

You know, the factory doesn't really coat quite as well in the wheel wells.

They're hard to get to.

And with the combination of that, you know, a lot of times

reach in behind the fender and kind of poke around like Dave was saying.

But, you know, Casey, there's one quick thing.

Is there any chance when you do these cool rides,

you could like put the the Google glasses or something on and just get us a video?

I mean, just for us, no one else will see it.

Yeah, we don't have to share them.

And we will. We won't say who your customers are.

Yeah, I did that in the I've got one in the hammer that I did that in.

And I think I've got one in Izeta, which was really exciting.

Or what you used to do that, Casey, do you use like your phone or?

I have some meta glasses.

Oh, do you? OK.

But honestly, they only the ones that I have, they only record for a couple of minutes

because they don't have storage or battery life.

And also, I require prescriptions, which I've not put in those glasses.

So there's all kinds of things against that.

But it'd be really cool to have a nice if one of the listeners

has a suggestion for like a point of view camera.

That would be great if they could make that.

And maybe I could start doing a couple of those in some of my runs.

Even if you don't want to do point of view,

you could just do a suction cup on the windshield, take an iPhone, put it horizontal.

And the iPhone is pretty good at also picking up sound.

I mean, I would love to hear the orange car sound.

We don't, you know, be great to see you moving through the gears.

But if anything, just the front of the car and the sound of is what I'm looking for.

So, Paul, Paul, you have a big thing that you had happen this week

in your cars this week that I wanted to, you know, celebrate along with you.

So your big announcement is.

I drove a manual transmission car.

And of all the cars, everyone's thought I would.

Yeah, everyone thought I would be driving a Porsche.

And, you know, we ended up working with the occupational

therapists and physical therapists.

And in the end of the day, this BMW are 1966 BMW 1600,

the very first one delivered to the US.

It was this car that Max Hoffman used to sell BMW franchises all across the country.

We can go in that story later about it.

It's been in our property for 20 years.

We've owned it since for almost a decade, restored it.

But we sat in every single car I own.

We test drove every car I own and this car between getting in and out.

And I don't know if you saw the video I post on Instagram.

I didn't put it here, but we took a foam pad and wedged it

between my leg and the and the door panel.

And I did about 10 miles, took it to a cars and coffee.

Unfortunately, in both Porsches, the GT3 and my 80 backdate 911,

the clutch is so hard to do.

And it's not my problem isn't pushing the clutch in and out.

I mean, if it's hard, it just I have less energy, but it's going

from not on the clutch to on the clutch and lifting that, you know,

if you think about sitting in a car, try to imagine sitting in a car

and your left foot's on the dead pedal and you're going to lift it

and put it on a clutch pedal, think about the muscle you're using,

which is your hip flexor and that's just what they haven't done.

So I'm working on driving this more.

The second car that's the easiest to drive is my 944.

It just has it's harder to get into, but it has a, you know,

Casey knows or Tim, have you had a 944?

Yeah, I had an 87 944 turbo.

OK, you know, they they've got such a deep foot well.

So I can because some of the cars, the other problem is with the foam pad,

even when my foot is on the clutch, it's wedged up against the steering wheel.

So shockingly, BMW 1600 first choice 944.

I need to really bulk up my left leg before I can drive a 911 for any.

And by the way, I can't like my big fear is getting caught in traffic.

So but in the end, I wasn't supposed to walk for a year.

And I'm excited, as I said, goal, not die, drive a manual walk.

Oh, two or two, you've got your tour.

Not in that order, but yeah, it hasn't happened in that order,

but that was the order I preferred.

Well, it's cool.

Congratulations. We're all very happy for you.

It's pretty awesome.

And it is amazing that the sojourn your life has given you in 2025.

I'm sure you're looking forward to 2026 in many ways, aren't you?

Please be healthy. Yes, exactly.

Well, Dave, what did you do in cars this week?

I'm sure you did something with your brand new GT3 RS.

There it is behind me being blocked out by my fat head.

But I did take that car to a cars and coffee event that was on Sunday,

put on by a group called Parallel.

And the purpose of this event, they kind of do these steam things.

And this one had to do with bikes and like road bikes, you know, biking,

not motorcycles, but everybody was supposed to show up with a carrier

and things like that on these cars.

So everybody had bikes and alphas and all kinds of interesting stuff, Tim,

even even a little Ferrari action here for you with the bike on top.

You can see that very nice.

I like the RS6 Avant in front of it.

Actually, it's pretty cool.

Oh, yeah, that car was very nice.

I did get a picture of that car too, but I don't have it here.

We had some R8 we did.

There's a I think that's a 72.

I should know because of the client car and a friend of mine.

Isn't that just just hover there?

Dave, hover there for a second.

I realized, hang on, let me back up.

Let me go to the here we go.

Here we go.

Sorry, sorry, but I realized the perspective isn't perfect,

but it is ridiculous how small an old 911 is compared to a modern car.

I mean, my God, look at that.

It's just insane.

Anyway, if you had that next to this again, another friend of mine

with this particular car, that's actually a green.

I don't even know the color green.

Very dark, super cool car.

Here you go, Casey.

What is that your bike on there, too, Casey?

So no, that was our when we did the Porsche restoration challenge

with my old 968, my buddy, Vu, at PCA.

Let me borrow one of his Porsche mountain bikes and we strapped that to the roof.

It's pretty awesome.

I don't know.

Don't you think sports cars look good with roof racks or, you know, crap on the roof?

Greed. I just like it.

I mean, like I think it goes back to Robert Redford in that movie

with the skis downhill skier with the skis on that.

And after I saw that, I mean, literally almost every one of my cars

has a roof rack of some kind.

There's a dude running around town with one of these

that has the sport rack on the top of it, where it's literally sitting

on the back of the wing and then mounted to the rest of the car.

So it's like one of those enclosed

Yakima boxes or whatever or the Porsche version of it.

It's pretty wild when you see it run.

He's the car is yellow and it's got a yellow top on, you know,

one of those carriers on top.

So the GT3RS, I know you're still in break end.

Is it where is it on your scale of is it meeting expectations?

Are you still in the honeymoon phase?

Are you still waiting to make your first move on it and maybe kiss?

Well, I mean, where are we at with this relationship?

Yeah, I'm feeling it up right now, Tim, is really what's happening.

OK, no, we go to the kiss thing first.

I don't know about where you come from, but generally I'm moving.

Right along here. OK, you're holding hands.

Or are we talking about?

He's talking about heavy padding already.

I think he said second base.

I'm going to have you packing for sure.

That's a North Carolina first base.

Great car.

Amazing car.

Like really, just really quite astounding.

Casey was about to make a really funny Appalachia joke, but he backed off.

But I picked up his vibe.

North Carolina, if it were your sister, is what I think you meant to say.

But continue 100 percent.

Not going to say that.

It was AI, Casey.

Do any. I know you're in break in period.

Did you do anything dynamically driving with it, twisty?

I've been a little.

I've thrown it into all the various modes.

I've definitely hit it a few times.

They try to tell you to keep it under 4,500 RPMs,

but I've definitely taken it up a few times above that.

Now, you know, when I'm talking to the dealer,

they give you that kind of as a wink, wink, nod, nod.

But they're basically suggesting that the engine's already been broken in

before it even went in the car.

So that said, I'm certainly not pounding or hammering on it,

but I've taken it out on a couple of spirited little rips

and let it really go through the gears and so on.

And I mean, it's like we talked about a lot.

It's one of these cars that you don't get the thrill

until you're at triple digits is really where the deal is.

And that's and it comes extremely quickly and extremely

without noticing.

I mean, you're just cruising down the highway

and you look down and all of a sudden you're doing 104, 105 or something like that.

And other than the traffic coming up on you quick or you coming up on it quick,

you don't even notice it.

I mean, this car just is special for sure.

The thing that I've always been curious about that is I know you can control

damping in the car, you control sway bars.

I think even disconnecting sway bars and stiffness.

Have you tried any of that?

Have you done twisties?

I mean, I have no twisties.

Just just fast go again.

And ultimately I sat in the car.

The track mode is where you can make all those adjustments.

It's three modes.

You got normal, you have sport, you have track.

And the track is where you can adjust all the dials.

And unless you're really going to be on the track now,

I like the idea of the track mode because I can if I want the suspension

a little softer, you can dial it all back and actually flip the thing in track mode.

Take off the sport exhaust, if you want, turn all that off.

And then you can get a slightly more comfortable ride, you know,

not quite as jarring on certain, you know, rough pavement and so on.

So yeah, it's it's it's an every man's car.

Everyone should have one.

Absolutely.

And we take it to we take it to the track.

Sorry, are you going to take it to the track?

You know, if the opportunity presents itself, there's a few events

and there's a few tracks that are local enough and nearby.

I'm not the kind of guy that's going to throw that on a trailer

and probably, you know, now take it down to Homestead or take it down to

Atlanta or someplace like that.

I'm if something comes up, there's a few little tracks around here.

I may do the 10 tents motoring club, which is new.

It's a joint project that that's been done with the folks

who own NASCAR as well as the Hendrick family.

That's an amazing little track that's nearby.

And I'm sure there'll be some event around that that I'll try to get involved with.

I'm interested in also doing smokies, GTs and that kind of stuff.

Do it all road, road, road cracks.

I mean, road drives.

Well, for what it's worth having friends that race, you know,

the race car versions that in different series, the suspension,

you will get you'll get a mild effect from adjusting the suspension

as long as until you adjust the.

The alignment.

So the alignment itself needs to have a more aggressive alignment.

And then the suspension settings from what I was told

actually feel more noticeable than the streets alignment that it has now.

And you know what I mean, basically the you're a wear out back tires.

Like every 3,000 miles, but that's where you feel the greatest difference.

So just for what it's worth, if you just adjust the suspension

and drive it on the street, or adjust all the knobs and drive it on the street.

Supposedly it's not that noticeable.

Have you guys heard the same thing?

I mean, I always recommend getting if you have a car with adjustable

suspension to have somebody that knows what they're doing, adjust it

because, you know, when cars are strapped down and those kind of things,

sometimes the tolerances are adjusted.

So I always recommend if somebody really cares how their GT car feels to go

to somebody, go to somebody that knows what they're doing,

not necessarily the dealer TPC racing that is near us.

And they're good friends of mine.

They campaign GT three cup cars and everything all over the realm.

Mike, there is a genius when it comes to chassis setup.

And that's where I recommend people go.

Yep, makes sense.

So what did I do in cars this week?

I had a brilliant drive in that TR2 we bought, which basically is effectively

a tribute is what I'm going to start referring it to as, because it really is

to a 1950s TR2 Le Mans, except this one has I've gotten to know it more.

I've spent a lot of time on it.

And that car, I have to say, just driving around through the same roads that,

you know, Dave is near adjacent was one of the most exhilarating drives I've had

in forever because the car, it really does reconnect me with everything I love

about sports cars.

So right after I drove the TR and I drove it for a good while that I took

my mom on a drive, I took, you know, and that was great.

You guys can look at the videos on Instagram.

And mom was like, steadfast, faster, faster.

One of my neighbors have not yelled at me.

I love the video because you hear in the background as you take off with your mom.

Like someone like, I think it's from your daughter.

Have fun.

Don't die.

Yeah, that's exactly Zoe.

Exactly.

That's what she says.

So you guys just want, but this TR2, I've really, it's exceeded my expectations

as far as the overall experience from driving it, but also the build quality

on it's really bonkers.

It's such a wonderful little car.

I'm really, really glad we've added it to the Horde.

But what I was going to say is right after I got done driving that, and then I drove

our 2000 and whatever it is, 19 speedster.

And I swear to you, the speedster is supposed to be all that.

But compared to the TR, I know I'm comparing things that are just different worlds,

but that freaking speedster felt like driving a suburban.

It was ridiculous.

It was so loud.

That's a sports car nowadays.

Something has been lost in translation is all I have to say.

And I remember Chris Harris, I don't know, this video is recently was saying that he's

going back to, you know, essentially fighting older cars and restoring them and having

more fun with them and, you know, not so much worrying about whether he's over

investing them.

I totally get that vibe because these newer cars, even with the exception,

probably Dave's RS, the newer cars really do feel the same and they really,

truly have had all the sports car is ish out of them bred out over the years.

I just, I don't know what to say.

I mean, the TR really did.

It really was some experience.

I was not expecting to have happened.

I haven't had anything like that automatically happened.

I can't even remember the last time, you know,

is Dave going to service it for you?

I don't know.

No, service it.

Absolutely not.

But you know, here's the thing.

I actually know how to do almost all the things on that car myself because I've restored

two TR threes with my dad.

So I know how to do virtually everything.

It's very, very, very basic.

Otherwise I would know how to do anything.

All right, let's move on.

Do you have any issues with it?

Any issues with driving it?

I mean, it's fired up fine.

No issues starting it.

It was all great.

Dave, I'm telling you, I've not had an automotive experience that was overall.

So exhilarating as this thing.

Truthfully, not even my new cars.

I'll say the only thing that's kind of close in the recent years would be when we drove the

718 Spider RS, but even the 718 Spider RS, which I love, that would be a Keep Forever type car.

It's still nothing compared to the feel of the TR2.

I mean, my daughter, my daughter who's short, right?

She never experienced the TR doors where you can effectively touch.

And so she, without even leaning over, could basically touch the ground.

I mean, it's something different.

And I know Casey's got a soft spot for TRs as well.

So he knows where I'm, he knows the vibe.

Yeah, I think I told you, or I talked about that kind of like ideal driving experience

when and where, and my dad's TR3 is, it's awesome.

I mean, I get similar vibes, but I feel like I'm going to die less when driving a 914.

And really, that's pretty much, I mean, that connection.

And I'm assuming that that's what people that drive motorcycle, ride motorcycles feel like,

being that it's just you and that experience.

But yeah, the TR3 is a rad experience.

I love it.

So just, I don't want to, you know, do a little mini TED talk here.

But the reality of it is, is unless you're talking, if you're hearing somebody talk about

driving experiences and whatnot, but they don't really have experiences like what Casey just

explained, it's hard for me to really see them as someone I'm going to listen to with,

you know, beyond just surface level stuff, because they don't really have anything to

reference.

So if you're talking about the driving experience of a new GT3 RS, and you don't have a bunch of

things that you can compare it to that aren't also modern, you're not really a qualified,

I mean, I appreciate your passion, your enthusiasm, but it's not really the same thing as if you

driven a car that originally, that defined what steering feel was.

You guys understand what I'm saying?

I know I'm pretty much the choir here, but that's hard to convey to younger people.

So younger people, here's your prescription from today's FTT, go out and drive some ancient

cars, some from the Jurassic period, okay?

Go out and have those experiences.

And then when someone, you know, tells you about how amazing steering feel is or whatever,

or how incredible they are at driving and talks about oversteer and understeer,

but they're, but they have driven an old car with no traction control, no ABS, nothing to

save your ass.

That's probably somebody you can listen to, versus say somebody who's only living a grown-up

driving cars that are coddled, where you don't really have to worry about how good or bad of

a driver you are.

So yeah, I think that probably resonates to our most of our listeners.

All right, let's move on to automotive news.

Paul, you get to go first.

All right, let me switch over to this lovely image.

Can you guess what's going on here?

So for those of you who are listening, it looks like a racetrack.

A motorcycle guy, a racer, all set up in motorcycle gear with a Tesla Model Y and a

corner worker standing next to it with a red flag, because I think it was last week

at Button Willow Raceway, there was an AFM race, American Federation of Motorcyclists,

which is sort of like, I think, motorcycle version of SCCA, NASA, that kind of club,

like a semi-pro amateurish club race.

A Tesla wandered onto the racetrack in the middle of a points-winning race in the last few laps,

and the crazy thing was the red flag was thrown so late.

I mean, these motorcycle, okay, I'm going to see about this.

Let's see if this works, because this, watch this video.

Let's just see if this will work.

Hold on.

Oh, yeah.

So they're racing along.

I took out the sound because the announcers are horrible.

And then look at that, over on the track.

There is a, that is, they're basically going into the button hook if you've been to it,

and they're coming out and they're going to have a head-on version.

They're coming through this button hook and going the other way is the Tesla.

Check.

And then the guys sitting there or Gal or whoever's driving it going,

I don't know what to do.

Corner worker runs out.

He's freaking out, because I mean, I'm sure they're not really trained for cars to be driving on the

track.

And, you know, as the motors, I shortened the video.

As a motorist, my favorite part about this is they get a little, a little,

um, uh, like go-kart scooter, you know, thing to bring the Tesla to, to show it how to get

out of the pit.

So there's the guy, he's leading the Tesla.

I sped it up.

But talk about a walk of shame.

He's got to go down pit lane.

Why do you keep on saying him?

That, that looks like a, that doesn't look like him.

Or her.

Yeah.

They, I don't know.

You don't need to worry about being politically incorrect.

That was not a good.

So basically, I mean, talk about the, now the funny thing is the article that came out,

I mean, you could tell that this was like a local club magazine, which got picked up

by all the other ones.

It was called Right Apart that did it.

And they, this is like the first, most interesting news they've ever had.

So here's the title, Tesla driver onto live racetrack during motorcycle race,

as driver nearly kills people.

I'm like, you got it.

You got to be kidding.

So now, uh, how many of you have been to button will or driven on it?

Tim, have you been?

No, I haven't.

Many of you guys, Tim, I'm surprised.

So here's, here's an out.

Here's an overlay of the track.

Now, if you look at the green dot for those of you who's not watching, that is the old track.

The dark black is a brand new track, which I don't think they've opened yet.

Now you see those two red dots at the bottom of the track.

There's dude.

Those are proposed Tesla charging stations.

They're not, those, they're not even there yet.

So the weird thing I can't figure out is somehow they went on the left dot.

They went there or Tesla, I think they said that the guy was complaining or that, you know,

that the car or the gal was complaining that the car was in self-driving mode and took them there.

But then it had to go in dirt to get to the track.

I would love to see that.

So, um, if you're a club racer, just watch out and you're racing a button willow.

Just be aware.

Teslas could be coming head out at you.

So what's the desperation of rank?

Go ahead.

It's hard time.

No, no.

So what's the takeaway?

What's I think they need.

I think the corner breakers need a new flag to warn people of a Tesla driver coming head on.

Maybe it's a flag with a middle finger or our Elon's face.

I think it's, you know, the range anxiety is will make you do silly things.

Right.

Obviously, you know, coming through the dirt to find a charger is a pretty desperate move.

I wonder if they made it home.

Okay.

But I mean, good.

I was going to say, when he went down that walk of shame or she went down the walk of

shame down the pit lane, you could see the, imagine the kind of people that were at this

motorcycle race and they were, you could see arms raising.

I mean, I would have loved to have had a mic on that.

Why do you think that she had a walk of shame?

She probably drove down looking at all those ice powered vehicles with a smug look on her face.

Thought she was showing all of them basically that her intelligence from driving an electric car.

Well, maybe you're right.

But at the very end, and I cut that out, there's a gal who runs the race.

She's like the head person of the whole sanctioned race.

She comes over to the window and for 15 minutes, you can tell she's just chewing her ass out.

She is just making her, I mean, you can see the hands flying.

She takes her hat off.

It was funny.

I mean, no one was even close to dying, by the way.

So I heard Elon say something interesting.

I want your guys' opinion.

This isn't, you know, he said, I think it was on Joe Rogan this week,

that 90% of all humans would prefer to be driven than drive.

Because obviously he's coming out with complete self-driving cars with literally

no ability for people to drive themselves anymore.

Do you think that's true?

Do you think, I've been thinking about this nonstop.

Do you think 90%, I actually think it's true too.

I think the number is higher.

What do you think, Casey?

Given a choice, would you rather drive or be driven?

I mean, just for normal Monday and daily crap.

I always drive.

Well, just for normal Monday and daily crap, if it was just.

Yeah, I'd rather be in charge of my own destiny.

So I don't have to worry about a Tesla driver running into the side of me.

I mean, it's the same thing with if we're going to New York City or something like that,

I'd rather drive myself than take the train.

Because then I'm at least in charge of when I can go, you know, all these,

all these, you know, open, you know, these open-ended things.

I like being in charge of my own destiny in that regard.

What do you think, Dave?

For normal Monday things, I bet you that is a swings wildly based on age.

I'm going to say younger people would certainly much rather be getting driven.

I would have a major issue like sitting in the back,

if it's something where I'm jumping in the car and going, yeah, okay, I can see that.

But it really is, if I'm in the front seat or a passenger seat,

I just, I don't even enjoy my drive as much no matter who's driving, right?

So I would much rather be in control myself.

Actually, I thought it was encouraging that what he said that 90% would choose to be driven

versus drive, because that means there's going to be a lot of electric self-driving cars that

are going to avoid cars that are being driven by humans, right?

The electric cars will become fearful of us.

And so they'll intentionally let us in on roundabouts.

They'll stop completely at stop signs.

They're actually great.

We're finally sports car drivers driving tiny little cars.

We're finally going to have our day in the sun.

And there you go.

So that was my takeaway.

Well, have you ever like screwed around with the Tesla drivers like on an open freeway?

Like Sunday morning, I'll go to cars and coffee and the LA freeways are empty.

And you'll go by like a Model Y and you could tell the driver is not, they're just looking down.

You could see that they're not really paying attention.

So I'll go by him and I'll get maybe 10 car lengths in front.

I'll slam the brakes on for just a second and accelerate and I'll move over a lane.

So all the person does is the Tesla does this little thing.

The person looks up freaked out and there's nothing in front of them except an old car over here.

So for you guys who want to play the home version, go home on an empty road on a Sunday morning

and just f with the Tesla.

That required a lot of planning, but I appreciate it.

I enjoyed it.

I do it all the time.

When you do that, can you get some metaglasses please?

Because we would like to see that just like Casey's driving.

We would like to see that.

I need a rear view camera because I can see in the rear view mirror,

it's amazing how far away you can see the whites of someone's eyes.

They just go for a second and then they're looking around.

They're totally befuddled why their car did that.

All right.

I'll go next for automotive news.

Can one of you guys click on the link and show this?

If you guys could help me out, that'd be great.

Is it that thing?

Analogautomotive.co.uk.

I actually messaged this guy in direct message and he hasn't gotten back with me.

I've known about this company for a while.

There's two companies in the UK that are taking Mark 1.

No, no, no, that's something else.

Taking Mark 1 lotuses and they're essentially,

I'm not going to say Resto modding them, but they're basically updating them

and fixing anything that the cars need.

And I think they're brilliant.

Have you guys driven a Mark 2 Lotus?

We had one, Elise.

I mean, is it the one we got, the 2006 to 2000?

That's a Mark 2.

So that Toyota motor and a Toyota transmission.

Yeah, versus the one that the Europeans got, right?

So the Mark 1 was the one that the Europeans had that we never had,

but you can import those now.

So again, my rekindling of my love affair with lightweight cars,

I'm thinking, well, what would I want to add to, if I were to add anything,

it would be probably one of those cars from that guy over in the UK and his shed that's,

there you go, that's making, remaking the Mark 1s because that is the quintessential

modernist, probably overstating it, but modern sports car that's truly lightweight.

And I don't know the pricing.

I don't know about any of the logistics and the different pricing tiers and all the Mickey Mouse,

but that very much intrigues me.

I thought that was kind of a cool thing.

And the other automotive news I found, and if you want, you guys can pull this up too.

And this is only, this goes to something we talked about in FTT a couple of weeks ago, the,

that is a electric car, which personally, I hope you guys will agree with me.

If not, it'll leave me more fun if you don't, but I think this thing looks amazing.

It's an electric car, which I don't see myself ever buying, but that one in particular looks

phenomenal.

And it's based on a Hyundai.

One of you guys helped me out.

The bad ass Hyundai that everyone says is a phenomenal.

All right.

The Ionite 5N?

Yeah, I think that.

But so this is, it's fascinating.

If you think of an electric car, generally speaking, it's using that, there you go.

It's using the, essentially what would be called, you know, the battery packs are all on the bottom.

It looks like if you look at it as it's just sitting there, it's, you know, a chassis,

almost like it's got a chassis.

It's not unibody, which means that a lot of the, like that manufacturer, they can take

those other cars, they can take the body panels off.

They can use all the suspension and all the Mickey Mouse and they can bolt their own,

you know, interpretations of what looks badass.

And I think they had a home run with that one.

And that's all carbon fiber, $130,000 US.

But look, I mean, there you go.

And if that, if electric cars spawn a new industry where people can re-skin electric

cars and make them into something really amazing, I'm all for it.

And I might start liking electric cars.

What do you guys think about either of my automotive news?

I'm not sure I'm feeling, yeah, I like the first one.

I'm not sure I'm feeling you on the second one.

All right.

I appreciate your directness.

I mean, the good news is if they were going to pick one by picking the Ionic 5 and was

probably the best one, because that's the one that they've actually simulated manual driving.

And some of the most respected automotive journalists said, like, look, I know you're

fooling me.

I don't care because I'm fooled in a way that works for me.

So I think that's the platform to use.

I know the other manufacturers are scrambling to do what Hyundai has done.

You know, the end of the day, what the future holds, if there is, if this is the way we're

going to enjoy modern sports car hobby, and it's the only way, then so be it.

It's better than, you know.

The reason my brain connected on those two points was because I think what you just said

is right.

Jay Leno said this.

He said, maybe we all go to the world where we're driving hybrids or electric cars,

and the sports cars like that first Lotus I pulled up are what we drive on the weekends.

Maybe that's where the world's going.

I'm not really sure.

All right.

Casey, you are up next, and I love what you've got.

If you guys aren't watching on YouTube, you're missing out because these guys do a phenomenal

job with their images.

So there's a new Jim Connell video coming out that was announced at SEMA this week with Travis

Pastrana driving the, it's a Subaru Brad.

I think it's called like a Bradaroo or something like that.

I'm a big Travis Pastrana fan.

He's a Maryland guy, and the Jim Connell that they did in the Annapolis area was just great

because I drive on a lot of those roads often, and I think it comes out in December, but it's

really great that they're keeping that kind of story alive and continuing to do things in memory

of Ken Block.

So that's coming out in a couple of weeks, and I can't wait.

So help me understand, is a Jim Connell, I know what it's traditionally been,

it's been like an autocross, right?

So I know, and obviously who Ken Block was, are you saying that these are guys that are

driving on the track at the same time, or is it just?

Have you ever seen a Jim Connell video?

I've seen a Ken Block video.

That's all the same.

They take over a city and just go nuts.

Okay, so it's a demonstration thing.

It's a demo thing.

Okay, yeah.

In case you mentioned Marilyn, was that the one where he catches, is that kind of a back road

and he catches air for like 100 feet?

Yep.

Yeah, that's a road that I drive on with what, I mean, I don't do that.

But my client with all the interesting RS cars, he lives very close to there,

and that's my traditional driving route.

So really awesome.

I know the Jim Connell videos have done lots of cool stunts,

but that one is so scary realistic.

I don't know if you guys have seen it.

If you watched that one where it's just on the back road, this kind of roads that we drive,

and he is carrying such insane speed that you watch him just go hundreds of feet in the air,

like maybe 10, not only like 10 feet in the air, but just literally looks like he's flying.

He is.

And you get, I just get goosebumps thinking about it because I've been on roads

where the cars gotten light like that, but the wheels never even came off the ground,

and I was freaked out.

You guys ever jumped a car?

Like, have you ever gotten four wheels off the ground?

Tom has died in a carado.

A carado?

What happened?

Tell your story.

The driver was going way too hot and got real light in the air,

and the road turned in front of him, and the car, of course,

it's hard to turn a car in the air.

So, yeah.

I was in, I was at Julie and I were in a brown two-door Volvo 240DL driving on a country road

in Ohio with no lights, and I did not know there was a railroad track that was coming up that had

very much a ramp that you're leading up the railroad track, and we got four wheels off the

ground in a freaking Volvo.

I have to say it landed perfectly and kept on going.

Oh, so does it count that I got four wheels off in the air, not because I jumped,

because the ground disappeared from beneath me?

It counts to me.

It counts to me, too.

Like going off the road, not realizing there was a 20-foot ditch, and then just sailing over it

and not quite making it and sort of lawn darting into the other side.

What were you driving?

A 911.

Oh, of course.

My dad broke six ribs, but, you know, it was on the way to Monterey Car Week.

Seriously.

Wow.

This was 2011.

Was it a normal seat belt and he broke six ribs?

Yeah, it was an 84 Carrera.

That's incredible.

And I had a Momo Prototipo, and it folded back like a taco.

And at the end, if you imagine a ditch and we flew over the ditch,

hit a stump that tilted it, and then lawn darted into the other side of the ditch.

So we were about eight feet off the ground, sort of like bridging the bottom of the ditch.

And the windshield with the radar detector and everything flew about 20 feet further.

So Paul, remember when we were talking about how they make that

997 thing a shorter wheelbase to make it into an old car?

So you were doing the shortened wheelbase Carrera cars before that company was.

Yeah, and I noticed it handles so much better regardless.

A true short wheelbase.

A true short wheelbase 911.

Dave, you're up next.

Do you have a really interesting story?

I hadn't read this actually on Road and Track.

Yeah, I just thought it was interesting.

We talked a little bit last week about the W18 motor that Porsche had just gotten their patent on.

So this was a more fun, interesting patent that they are looking at apparently or that they've

taken. One where the car will notify you when you're rolling up on a tunnel.

So using cameras and so on when all of us 911 drivers want to move into tunnel mode,

where you're opening the exhaust and putting your foot in it and terrorizing all the other

drivers that are all around you ripping through that tunnel.

Porsche's cameras apparently will tell you it's coming potentially,

depending on the mode you pick, lower the windows for you.

That's what the patent is, right?

I mean, so I think it's pretty silly fun, but they also have two modes,

one where you can actually button the car up apparently.

But they're going to do this for both cabs.

So they're going to warn you and tell you to turn or pull off the road to put your top down

before you go through the tunnel. It's pretty serious fun, but just an interesting patent,

of course. Doesn't that seem like it's almost too much fun for Germans, if we're being honest?

It is. That sounds like it was designed in Southern California.

In fact, we should probably trademark a tunnel run and then license it back to Porsche.

So they can have a TR button in their car.

Yep, you can get those registered letters, Paul, not me.

All right, let's move on.

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All right, Mr. Kramer, which I know you love it when I call you this.

You and I, on our first podcast that we did,

okay, before the gentleman joined us in January of this year,

which is astonishing.

We've almost done this for 12 months, almost had 52, you know,

this has been a really fun ride.

You and I were talking about the fact that the car market seemed to be very much

uncertain.

And that was the keyword.

I realized that was in the news and whatnot.

You and I are probably just picking it up.

But the uncertainty was happening from car sales.

People were uncertain about what direction we're going.

And we actually, we were talking about seeing certain cars that seem to be taking a step

back in price, fast forward six months, maybe seven months.

And holy crap, has the world changed.

And whichever, I would hope, hopefully all you guys will participate in this.

I'm not in the car business.

You know, so I've only watched from because I, you know,

benchmark a handful of cars personally that I watch.

But I think you guys will probably, I'm interested in what you're curious about.

We're, and I did some homework on trends and whatnot to start with you guys.

But Paul, cue the mini Ted Talk.

Yeah, I went kind of deep down.

And when we talked back in January, I described it as volatile,

which was sort of used car salesperson talk for, I don't know what the hell is going on.

Because one minute something's okay.

The next minute it's not, I would go every day on to bring a trailer results.

And you look at the comments and one auction, someone, you know,

people would go, oh, the, you know, the bubbles burst, the party's over.

And then the other comments would be like, oh, you know, the market's strong again.

And I just saw this, you know, seesawing back and forth.

And it was really hard as we're getting cars in.

As you described him, what I'm seeing is, I think more confidence.

I think people finally realize whatever was going on at the beginning of the year.

At the end of the day, they still, regardless of whatever's going on in the world,

tariffs and elections and economy, what they really, really want is these cars.

That, you know, this is a passion.

They want these cars.

But I would say if anything, the market's getting really segmented.

What they want is becoming narrow.

It's not like in the pandemic times where it was just, you know,

feeding frenzy and just buying, you know, buying everything.

And really one of the bellwethers, and I think we're talking about this

young timer versus old timer, we're seeing now a split.

And I would say, you know, 80s, as you go 80s and newer, the desirability

and the market strength gets stronger and stronger.

And one of the bellwethers I really have seen is the 991.2 GT3 Touring.

That's sort of become this halo car.

It's kind of like, I describe it as like the modern day 993 C2S,

which sells for an incredible amount of money.

Still, and it's gotten even stronger.

There was a 4S that, there was a 4S today that closed it.

I didn't think it was that great and closed, and it bid to 215.

So it's 220 something without fees, and it still didn't sell it.

Had lowest miles, 16,000 miles.

But like when you look at this, what I'm, if you look at the right,

I wish I had a pointer.

So if you, let's see if I could do this with pointing over here.

So if you look right here, this is 2000, will it do my finger?

This is, over, there we go.

This is 2000, beginning of 2025.

And if you can look, you can see this upward swing.

There's a concentration closer to my head of just stuff sort of hovering.

And then as the year goes on this year, you start seeing,

you know, there's not a lot of data points, but there's some because these cars don't trade.

So you're looking at like a 2000, like a, these are all 18, 19,

tourings are all manuals.

And you start seeing the beginning of year, you know, like a 10,000 mile one or 8,000 mile one

selling for 205, 210.

And then all of a sudden as the year goes on, you see, oh, a good color goes for 230.

Then you see one that's just an average color, sell for 240.

And now we're getting to see some good color ones with under 10,000 miles,

getting close to the $300,000 range.

And I went nuts.

I mean, I went and looked at the boxers and I compared Hagerty,

which is just insurance aggregate, you know, aggregating data.

I went to classic.com to see kind of what they were all bundling up.

And, you know, we, I looked at all of them.

And as you get to the newer cars, you start to see more activity

and spikes of cars that are selling higher.

But the end of the day where the market is strong is something special.

It's low, low miles, very original, cool color, cool options.

If you've got a 996 base Carrera with 100,000 miles in black

with an accident car effects, no one still cares.

But if you have a $17,000.

Yeah, $17,000.

But if you have a 996 C4S with 15,000 miles,

with the IMS bearing done in speed yellow,

all of a sudden that car is $60,000.

Well, let me interject something here.

Because what's, and I want to involve Casey and obviously Dave too,

but you know, I really love the fact you've done your research

and you're bringing it up.

What I found really, I'll say almost shocking was the precipitous drop,

or at least the flat lining, thank you, Julie, of values of cars of 911s

in particular, normals and special ones that are not water cool.

The water cooled cars are really, have really found their legs exactly.

And Paul's showing up, if you guys are not watching us on YouTube

or reels or whatever, you're going to see what I'm just expressing.

The older cars have flat line.

Now, do they stay flat lined or do they go down in value?

What I'm looking for is some kind of reason to believe

they're going to start going up in value.

And I'm seeing personally, and you guys argue with me,

no reason to believe that they are,

because the water cool car seems to be where it's at.

Do you guys have an opinion on that?

I mean, just really quick, if you look at this,

Hagerty now is putting forecast values.

I don't know where they're getting the data from.

So on long hoods, they're showing long hoods, you know, 69 to 73 s's

that their accuracy is 0.94%, whatever that means.

But they're basically forecasting that it's going to continue to drop or stay flat.

I think the only exception is really special cars.

For instance, we sold a few months ago, a 73 CIS-T in Aubergine,

that was mostly original paint.

Killer survivor, you know, I would say condition one minus,

and it sold for $140,000 because it was a great color, low miles,

you know, very original.

But on the other hand, like we talked about a few episodes ago,

there was that really nice 69, 911 T in light yellow

that struggled to get $70,000 on bring a trailer.

So special long hoods will sell well, but they're few and far between.

Casey, what are you thinking?

I mean, I've always told the story that, you know, it makes,

the more interesting the car is, you know, and the more of the history

that you can tell of the vehicle, the more the lowest the owner, you know,

there are so many cars out there that are just average.

But I mean, the Aubergine car that Paul was talking about,

I was going to bring it up if he didn't, you know, that was a special,

mostly original car in an insane color.

And I believe that's the only way that you're going to get big money

in that era of vehicle.

I mean, I don't even want to talk about water cooled cars yet

because I think we'll progress through the years.

But, you know, even 73 RSs, as we talked about before,

you know, it all comes down to documentation,

to originality, to all that because, you know, people,

there are a whole bunch of them out there that have likely been cobbled together.

But it begs the question, you know, what do you do to a car to bring it to that level,

to bring it to that level where it can actually fetch that money?

We talked about how there were a whole bunch of missed cues on that light yellow car

that we thought with maybe five, six, $8,000 of adjustment to the listing

or to the car itself, you know, that car could have fetched 20 to 30k more.

I think it's important to mention here that just because the values are flat

or even declining, it does not make them any less special cars.

And from my enthusiast brain, the way my brain's thinking,

I'm not upset that they're not going through the sky,

through the roof value-wise like they were, say, 15 years ago,

because there are a lot of those, those old Longhood Porsche 911s

are just unbelievably exceptionally fun to drive when they're done right.

So Paul, you pulled something up on the 73 911s and go ahead.

Oh, this was just reinforcing that it's nothing's happening with the market.

And even if you go to, you know, what's nice about Hagerty,

I always tell people what the numbers are like in the top,

I don't really pay attention to, I pay attention to the trend.

So if you see the graph and if you're watching on YouTube,

you'll see the graph at the bottom, that spike,

when do you think that spike was?

Tim would know because you were restoring cars.

When do you think you see where it goes from nothing

and it has its first big up?

When do you think that was?

It was after I tried, it was before I tried to sell our 67s

because I would have made more money.

Right. So, so, so what happened was yeah, exactly.

So the market, the beginning of that curve, the first thing we saw,

and it was the first time Porsches did anything,

people don't realize that 911s, 356s, they were just,

they weren't Ferraris, they weren't special cars,

they were, you know, fun sports cars.

And 2012 and a half, 356s took off, they pulled the 911s up.

By the time you got to 16, I mean, people were pulling every,

excuse me, language shit box and trying to restore it

and make it cool because they wanted to cash in.

And we saw so many crappy cars come out of that era.

And literally, if you looked at Barrett Jackson in 2017

and the results from that, the party was, the party was over.

And then what it did was you can see it just sort of kind of flatlined.

You see that next little bump, it's like a plateau with the plateau down.

That plateau was pandemic.

And the only thing pulling that up were the Ss

because they were, if you remember in 21, 22, 23,

there were some insane 67 soft window Ss come up.

There was a few really nice long hood, you know, 73 Ss that came up.

But they pulled the market.

If you really drill down and look at the T's and the E's, that line is flat.

And it's pretty much stayed flat.

So I've told people who are, you know, like G body cars,

when you go look at, you know, 86 Carreras that we were talking about,

those are, if you could see, those are steadily climbing.

And all of a sudden for 100 grand, you can get a really nice decent long hood.

Like, like people complain that, oh, the, you know,

air-cooled Porsche is really expensive.

100 grand is really expensive.

But in the end of the day, I'm looking at for 100 grand,

you can get a killer long hood, maybe a hot rod, that burgundy hot rod we just sold for 80,

let's see, 90 grand.

Or you can get an 86 Carrera with, you know, there was one that,

an 88 Carrera that closes for 92.

After fees, I'm bringing a trailer, it closed yesterday for $98,000.

So I am saying, hey, this is a great chance to actually see what air-cooled 911s are really about.

And Tim knows, once you drive a true long hood,

all of the other cars that follow makes sense.

And each car gets a little muted, a little more comfortable,

which might be great for some drivers.

But when someone says, I want an analog air-cooled experience,

I'm sorry, it's not a 993.

By the way, Paul wrote a killer article in the newsletter about this very thing.

What was the title of the article?

It was like, why buying an old 911 isn't what you think or something like that.

Oh, I think, and I reposted on Instagram, because I think it was actually,

I put most vintage Porsche buyers are clueless, and that's half the fun.

Dave, what are you thinking about this banter?

Because you are in both Porsche worlds, you're arguably one of the nation's most respected

restoration facilities for these old 911s.

And so with regards to that, what would you, where do you see market trends?

Are your buyers changing?

What's the vibe that you're picking up?

Well, I'm a bit of a contrarian to the rest of the conversation.

My personal feeling is I'm not seeing at least the lack of demand for the cars.

Certainly the G-body cars, there's more, I'm getting more calls.

I'm not getting the calls as much on long hood stuff.

And it's not that it's not still happening.

I have two or three here that are being built and their projects.

And they cost a lot of money to bring these cars back.

But I think it's like everything you're saying.

And what Casey was saying a minute ago too, which is there's a lot of just average stuff out there.

And if you take any one of these cars and spend a little bit of time and energy on it to bring it

up a bit, and I'm not talking about major rust repair and things.

I'm talking about carpeting and interior and fixing crack dashboards.

And those sorts of things that make a giant difference to the average buyer.

You know, it's got to be mechanically sorted.

It's got to have a motor that's got good compression and leak down.

But I'm getting calls every single day from guys still looking for these cars.

So I don't think that there's a downturn in my world on air-cooled cars.

Well, your business is going to do nothing other than accelerate

because of the fact that there's fewer and fewer reputable old Porsche shops

that are still in business.

Because they usually were two or three mechanics and those guys go off to the

great Porsche mechanic shop in the sky or just retire.

And so there's very few left standing.

So your competition is going to go down and your demand is going to stay at least level.

But you're going to get their previous customers.

So you have a very, you know, I would invest in your business.

Let's talk about 20.

Good to know.

Can I just add one thing, Tim?

Because I think this will be the takeaway for the,

because people call me all the time asking me, you know, where's the good deal?

Where do I look?

The problem is, Paul, that's where we're going.

So, but I mean, I put some notes in there for you guys.

Outlook for 2026.

And I used, I had our writing assistant, right?

Use Hagerty as the reference point, because I think everyone will argue

Hagerty is kind of like pretty much the best of breed as far as, you know.

So let's look at it there.

Hagerty is predicting 2026 forecast is, and I was surprised by virtually all these answers.

And if you guys think this is wrong, let's debate it.

But a 996 Carrera Turbo, that it's Hagerty is predicting based on current trends

that it's going to appreciate increase in value by three to seven percent.

By the way, I'm not sure if something increases in value,

it's not inflation versus appreciation.

Because if something goes up by three percent, but the inflation rate was by three percent,

was that inflation or was that appreciation?

Semantics, I suppose, but something keep in mind.

All right.

Next up, it said 997 GT3.

This one didn't surprise me as much.

It's expecting the values to go up in 2026 by five percent to nine percent.

992, go Dave.

GT3 RS, it's, oh, maybe not go Dave.

It's expecting basically those cars to level off in value.

I think we're already seeing that too with those values.

I think there was a report that came off that showed that the values of those cars,

and I'm not sure if it was, I don't think, I think it was based on the overages.

It said, showed that values dropped by 13 percent.

Did you guys see that?

But I think it's because the ADMs have come down.

Is that the reason that number was so much less?

There's more in the market.

Makes sense that the value will go down.

Yeah.

Well, it's playing man, right?

But I got it.

I get a lot of brokers and flippers send me their emails.

And I noticed that the ADMs now are like 30 to 50 grand for a new RS, if you can still get one.

All right.

So, and then what we were just talking about air cooled 1970s through the nineties is flat

to 3 percent.

I think Casey's points about special cars being something that will probably give you

at least cover your expensive owning the car.

And Hagerty, or at least my writing assistance theory was more of a mature market select buyers

only, which is exactly what Casey said.

So, and it said top five movers year to date is a 996 Turbo 996 Carrera 1999.

I guess spiced by these 996s.

I'm not really because they're so cheap.

They're so cheap, but it doesn't take much.

I agree 996 Turbo 2004.

And then it said 992.1.

And this was in year to date.

Dave's car, the GT3RS was up by 7 percent.

And then the 992 Carrera 2025 Carrera was up by almost 6 percent.

So, anything surprised you with those numbers, guys?

I mean, the 992 prices I think are based on, you know, the newer ones cost more.

So, it's the same.

They're just looking and going, well, I get a CPO car and it's and I don't have to deal

with tariffs.

I don't have to deal with waiting.

So, I think the prices of the late model stuff being up is based on availability,

ordering tariffs, new costs, ADMs, all these other things.

So, I think those cars might be perceived to be easier or less expensive, possibly.

I think the stuff that's going, the 996s are going up because a $5,000 bump on a 996

is like 25 percent.

And they're so inexpensive, which there was listening to a podcast and they talked about it.

They're inexpensive entry fee, think of like transactile cars,

but they're just as expensive, if not more expensive to maintain than a GT3.

The and the and the turbos, the 996 turbos have always been this interesting thing.

There's two, the main problem with 996 turbos is that industry love to modify them.

So, if you want a non-modified one, good luck for whatever reason, they stop doing that.

But most people who buy a 996 turbo, they're not buying it because it's the fastest car.

It's because it's the most perceived reliable car of that at that price.

For 50 to 60 grand, you can get a 996 turbo with the Metzger engine.

And if you jump to the 997.1 turbo, which isn't fundamentally in case you could point,

isn't mechanically a whole lot different, different dress, all of a sudden you go up 35 percent.

So, going back to, we're talking about 2026, if you use not only Hagerty, but go to classic.com

because classic.com will show you kind of, well here, bring a trailer will show you all the

auction. Well, classics of global, they look at prices all over the world where Hagerty is,

I think, dominantly focused on the U.S. Yeah, but also bring a trailer will show you

auction results, bring a trailer, you can start seeing where cars are moving from.

And if you see something, you know, but even, you got to remember, even this is,

this graph here for boxers is for, or yeah, the Boxer manual 987.1, this is classic.com,

but still it's mostly driven by, I would say, predominantly U.S. sales.

So, you start to look for flat spots. So, I think 996 turbos are still good deals

compared to 997, if you want that experience. I think, I mean, I know that we're getting a

996 GT3 here and I own one and I proselytize about these freaking things, but when I look at the

Delta between a 996 GT3 and a 997.1 GT3, which are fundamentally almost the same car and the price,

and these cars, when I go to my sheet, they're, let's see, they're almost flat.

Where is it? Yeah, look at that. They haven't really... They've been flat years, basically.

They've been flat for four years. Will they go up in value? Hard to say, but I don't think they're

going down and I think if you really want a 997.1, a 997.1 GT3 that's 140 to 50 grand now is $115,000

996 GT3, which by the way, not only is it fundamentally the same car, when I've tested

them back-to-back on a mountain road, yes, the 997.1's faster, but the butt dyno says the 996 is

more interesting and more engaging. That's my take on it. And 991.1 still, still believe in that.

Go ahead, Casey. Go ahead. I mean, what you're up against, I mean, it's the same tale that's always

been told about 996 and 997 is a 997 looks more like the archetypal design of a Porsche. So I

always believe that unless it's the weirdest, rarest color, something or other, if you put a

white GT3 from a 996 and a white GT3 from a 997, the 997 is always going to be worth more because

it's arguably a more attractive car to more people in the market.

That makes total sense. I mean, I agree 100%. Yeah. Casey, have you driven aggressively at 996 GT3?

Define aggressively, like on a racetrack? No, like spirited driving where you were trying to see

what the threshold was where it'd start to oversteer. No. I mean, I drive a 996 RS quite a lot,

but I don't drive it. Of course you do. Of course. I do not drive it like that.

He drove one to work today. How about you, Dave? Have you ever driven a 996, a GT3?

No. I have not driven a 996 GT3. So I had one and I have to say it's the closest I've ever

experienced to an old Longhood 911. So to what Paul's showing as far as values go,

if I were in the market for around, usually a sub $100,000 sports car, that car probably right

there is going to be at least something you won't lose your ass on, even if you have to do some

maintenance and send it up to Dave. So that's my opinion on that one. You guys ready to move

on to the listener questions? Yep. Sure. Paul, I turn my phone off so I don't screw with my

janky internet connection. Do you have the thing I message on WhatsApp from my friend Dylan so we

can use his as a question? And by the way, Paul, I think you're the one that's guilty of having

something play in the background that's causing the echo. Really? Yeah. There's literally nothing

different. So when do you guys have something on that's causing an echo? You're playing it in the

back. Oh, Dave, I have a I have airpot in so you can't blame me. Okay, well, hang on. I don't

want me to turn down my Dave again. I don't think it's Dave again. But it might be. All right,

so let's move on. And actually, so I have 50,000, you know, what Casey, this was a Casey inspired

question that I made into a listener question. I have 50,000 total set aside to buy a truly

special car. What would you suggest? And what is your sub $50,000 car but the bucket list car?

Casey, you get to go first. Okay, number one, golf R 32. No question in my mind. One of the

coolest modern modern Volkswagen's absolutely love it. I will own one someday. The one in

the picture behind me is we're going to talk about that in a future question here. But that's an

HPA car, which is pretty rad. And the other car that I've always loved and always wanted is a

Mark two rally golf. Hell yeah. Are those really less than 50 grand? They're rough, roughly there.

And I think that that is that is an awesome car. I looked at importing one a bunch of years ago,

and I couldn't find a good one to import. And the ones in the United States, there's a group

around here called NGP racing, they did a whole lot with rally golf and a whole lot of importing,

but I couldn't find one that I liked. So I bought a the complete opposite car of that my RFJ 62,

but big square and boxy. But I love I love all wheel drive, you know, on purpose Volkswagen's

and those two cars to me, I will own someday. You just described Paul, by the way, did you

catch the description big square and boxy part? Yeah, all that. Yes, that's me. And by the way,

if you're, if you could see what I'm seeing, which is Dave's picture, my picture in the

background and Casey's, I mean, can you imagine that as a garage? Oh, seriously? Dave's got a 240Z

early. I've got an alpha GTV hot rod. And then Casey's got the the GTI, the is that mark three,

mark three, right? No, no, it's not a GTI. That's a rally dude. That's the rally. Yeah, that's a mark

to rally gold. And those are really enough. You can bring those in the United States for less

than 50 grand. This maybe we should have a full throttle talk project car and bring in one of those.

That'd be fun, wouldn't it? All right, so Paul, you're up next sub $50,000 bucket list car. And

I'm shocked to see you pull up something Italian. I know here's the thing is I looked at the I get

this question all the time. And there's I have three answers. And if you if you want vintage and

old for under 50 grand, it and you want a Porsche, it's getting it's getting you and you want a 911

you want I mean, we're talking 60s. It's getting hard. The closest thing to a 60s and early 70s

911 that I've experienced and you guys can test this is the Alpha Romeo GTV. The prices are kind

of like early 911 SS super flat. There's some killer builds. I think alcoholics parts have

trickled into these builds. And really, in my favorite is that car. I had this I sold this car,

I don't know, a year ago. I swear to God, when you're driving and the funny thing is that Julia

and this GTV are essentially the same car, same engine, same platform, same everything,

just a different shell. But when you drive, have any of you driven a Julia, which is the

four door little Italian looking taxi car? I have every time you drive that I'm just going home.

You feel like one of two things either you're being chased by the police or you are the police

doing the chasing, you just drive it like a total bag of dicks. And it's just so much fun.

I don't know why the four doors better. But for 50 grand, you can get one bad ass four door.

So when someone says, Hey, I want it, I want an early 911 for 50 grand. That is the answer. And

they go, I need more comfort. The answer is 944. This was an S two that we sold a few years ago,

40,000 miles. It's it was like a $40,000 car. And that's about the best version. Or you can get

definitely my all time favorite 88 turbo s silver rose with the crazy studio check interior. This

is so 80s air conditioning, you can go on a lot of different events with it. And then lastly,

if you're like, I'm just kind of a wimp, and I really can't handle vintage, but I want the

ultimate thing. I want a 996 GT three, sorry, nothing's going to be under 50 grand. But the

40th anniversary 996, kind of a sleeper car, you know, the owners are annoying as hell.

You got to get past that registry and all that stuff. I know the guy will kill me because

every time I list one, he's like, gotta join the registry, gotta join the registry. I mean,

it's it's sort of like PCA. That car that that car had the power kit, they had 385 horsepower,

I think it had the equivalent of the m 30 suspension. Those were those were actually

pretty cool cars. And like we talked about a few episodes ago is really the first anniversary

edition that got cool stuff. But the thing about it is, I'll bet you through those on the dyno,

there's GT three manifold, there's some cool bits in there. And I don't think they had some of the

boar score IMS issues that the other cars did. So there's your three things, 60s, 80s and 2000s.

And you guys are torturing me because I should have made the question tighter and said what's

your single number one bucket car opposed to again, you all going into Ted Talk mode. Dave,

hopefully you've only got one one for me. There you go. And I think I've said before that if I

wasn't doing Porsches, I would probably be into these early Z cars, specifically 70 to 72,

the earliest of the cars. I never really cared when they started to have to move to the impact

bumpers, later cars, 73 and the 74 were both really problematic years for those cars.

But a nice like this is a nice the color combo is great. It's got this stock, this one's about

a stock as it gets that you're looking at right here. I do think there are certain mods on these

early cars that you can do wheel wise and so on that really do make the car a little bit more

aggressive. But that is a pretty sweet looking stock 72 240 Z. I had a 73 early earlier in my

life. I did find that the Japanese carburetors, Hitachi carburetors that ended up on those cars

were a real problem as opposed to the SU carburetors. So I had a lot of mechanical fighting and

gnashing on dealing with that car. But I've got a lot of friends with these cars. I think they're

really fun cars, nimble, light, fun to drive. They're making great cars, but they're making

new bodies for those so you can buy completely new body for them. And there's a company I don't

know where they're out of that makes carbon fiber version of those. The enthusiasm and the

falling behind those cars is probably second only like maybe BMWs and Porsches. So I think

that's a fantastic choice. And I'm not going to I'm not I'm not going to submit one for the sake

of brevity. All right, Dave, Dave had the best choice. I'm sorry, Dave's choice was the best.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I like Casey's rally from you. That means so much.

Yeah, I would go with Casey's rally. All right. So let's move on. What another question. What

sells better stock or modified one answer? Casey, you're first stock Paul stock or modified.

The older it is, the older it is modified the newer it is stock.

What do you think, Dave? And you're not one of you're in the car modification business. So

your people I think stock always especially on the newer cars when somebody has taken a 996

and gunked it up with a bunch of stuff, it's got to get stripped away the wrong wheels,

all that sort of stuff will really hurt the value on older cars back to our long hood

conversation. You can take a long hood car that didn't have certain features upgrades,

modifications, add some of those things that might have been stocking period, for example,

change interior seats, put sports seats in the car as opposed to the comfort seats on a long hood

car and enhance the value on that car. So I think it's a subtlety, but I do think you can do,

it is stock with tasteful or period correct modifications that will enhance value.

I call that OEM plus. I mean, the thing that you can do with an older car that especially

makes them look better and a torsion bar car is a lot easier is you can just wind it down a little

bit. You can get, you know, three quarters of an inch out of the ride height and look just like

that Bahama yellow car behind Paul, but that thing is just sits perfectly. Well, to Dave's point,

it's not it's not hot riding in the sense that people think of them nowadays of cars being hot

ride. It's using the period correct. Paul, help me remember what would have been the stuff that

you could have gone to Porsche and you could have bought if you wanted to make, you know,

you could buy basically ST parts or an old catalog. I remember seeing this sports purpose.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Casey nailed it. So if you're saying putting sports purpose stuff on the vintage

cars that's appropriate to when they were made, those have more value, especially if that makes

total sense. Yeah, I mean, you look at this car, this was a start life as a 72 or 71 T or whatever.

And he put ST flares basically body wise. That's it. He built an interior that looks like an ST

with the ST buckets. And then he put in a, you know, 2.8 liter twin plug motor, not a 36 or 38

or something from modern times, but the guy put in a motor that would have been period correct. So

he built what would have been a factory ST. Same thing is like RS clones. RS clones done well,

sell better than the base T that they were based on. But as you get newer, you get to a 993,

you know, like this was a C4S we sold that had a nephrite green interior, you touch anything,

you put stupid wheels on this thing, you're hurting the value. And 997.2 GT3, you better not

touch it. You know, 996 GT3, you don't touch it. I would say if you look at 60s, 70s and 80s cars,

I almost think unless it's a concor example, if it's just a driver, it does better modified than

it does stock 964 is the precipice where if it's, you know, IE singer, if it's modified a certain

way, it's worth more. But after that 993 and newer, I think you're just hurting value.

You guys get these questions a lot. And so do I. I'm not as many as you, I'm sure. But

what about someone who's considering, and this is a, you know, a conglomeration of a bunch of

questions, someone wants to go do some track events. And they're trying to debate whether

they should build a track car or have a dedicated track card. It's not plated or and Dave, if you

can get rid of that echo, it'd be awesome. A dedicated, if it's you a dedicated track car,

I'm just picking on you now, a dedicated track car or a car that you drive both on the street on

the track. And here's what got me thinking about this is because there are occasionally cars that

come for sale that are dedicated track cars that sell for less than what they're equivalent would

be for the street car. And I'm talking GT threes and talking Lamborghini Huracans and things like

that. So if you, and I put it, can one of you guys throw that picture up? Paul, you had it up

before of that Huracan, just the tip of the one that makes me throw up in my mouth. Yeah,

that aside, that's a real race. That's a real race car. And you can buy that car. And it's,

you know, straight up race car, just like the one you drive on iRacing or, you know, whatever,

for less than what equivalent of say, for example, a Huracan Evo would cost. So if you're going to

do, should you, that's the question, should you buy a dedicated track car? Because there's a lot of

them out there, or should you buy something that's going to be do serve both purposes? Casey, do you

have an opinion? Well, the, I mean, I have a number of customers that have new GT three RS's and also

have cup cars. Cup car ownership is so much more expensive. It's like, it's not even close to the

cost of driving a street car on the, I mean, driving a street car on the track. I mean,

maybe a set of tires, maybe upgrading the brakes, fluid, that kind of stuff. But when you run a

cup car, golly, the, you know, you're 100 hours for the engine, you know, what's a sealed engine

for motorsport for a new cup car, 70, 80, something like that. Transmissions probably only last 75

hours because they run sequential boxes. You're saying a bunch of stuff that I actually don't

know about. So I'm going to ask some questions because I can't be the only dumb guy. Hold on,

Paul, just a second. I thought the motors that they put in the GT three RS's were the same as the

motors that they use in motorsports. You're saying that's not true? Well, the difference is that a

race car is run only on the racetrack and it's run at extremely high RPM the entire time. Oh,

you're saying, okay, I get what you're saying. Yes. So if you ran, if you ran your GT three RS,

which I'm sure that the tolerances are different between the street car and the race car, I'm not

a race car guy, so somebody please correct me, it's perfectly fine. But when you're running a car at

9,000 RPMs all the time, you know, nobody runs a street car like that. You might find the guy at

a car's in coffee like Dave, that'll just bounce the car off the rev limiter for a moment because

he got that new exhaust, but you're not going to be running a car at the limit 100% of the time

that you're in it. I mean, that's what a cup car does. They don't like to idle. I mean, so

for instance, I look after a 993 Super Cup and I look after a 993 Carrera RS Club Sport.

While they look very similar, they operate incredibly differently. And that is why the

engines don't last as long in those because they're built with different tolerances with different

cams. You know, a modern car is, I'm not the person to quote on that, but my experience with

the older race cars is they're very different. Well, in the older race cars, and Dave, I know

you know a hell of a lot more about this than I do, is that the older race cars and race cars in

general, the motors are built with less tolerances until the engine heats up, you actually hear more

mechanical clanking around because that's actually a looser engine makes more horsepower. Dave, am I

saying that right? Yeah, that's fair. I mean, certainly, certain pistons and cylinders are

designed so that they've got more heat up tolerance and, you know, that it won't get into its full

compression and so on until the motor heats up. So yeah, I mean, that's true. But back to the

heart of the question. So I'm not actually considering, but if I'm somebody who's considering,

I love track events, I just want to go crazy on it. I can buy that Lamborghini that's right

behind Paul for say that you can buy one of those for like 200 to 250 grand, or do I buy a GT3RS,

okay, that's going to cost me say $350,000. And I just want to use it primarily for track. I got

other crap I can drive on the road. And it's new. So Casey, I'm getting rid of the, the hype of that.

And I'm not much of a driver, so I'm not going to be driving it at 9000 or PMs all the time. I'm

just a gentleman racer. I'm trying to hone in on the question. Why would you buy the GT3RS to put

it on the track? And why wouldn't you just buy the dedicated track car? Well, you're, you're missing

the cost of the truck and the trailer and the support staff and all that to get the car to the

track. I mean, that, that indicates all you're saving. Yeah. Okay. I mean, here's the thing is,

I think people unrealistically think that they are going to go to the track a lot more than they do.

So when they get to this question, they should have already taken a driving school, maybe gotten

a license to do, to do more. And they're really at that point. I mean, I did that with my race car,

which was my street car. It was a 99M coupe where I was going to the track seven, eight times a year,

took a license, and I wanted to do more club race it. I would say when you're at that point where

you're considering maybe even door to door racing or some kind of amateur competition,

yes, you get a dedicated race track car. I think if you're not going to the track,

if you're only going to track three, maybe four times a year, you get a street car, maybe you'll,

you'll tow it, maybe like I did carry good tires on the roof or a little mini trailer.

And you're in this like middle point where you haven't really decided what you want to do,

because like Casey said, when you get a dedicated track car, like you look, I look at 996 cup cars,

they pop up 997.1 cup cars, they're like 50, 60 grand, they look pretty sorted. But then you

realize there's all the costs when you're done with that car is so like that's just the price

of entry. The cost of ownership is probably 3x if you're going to run it for like say three years.

What's fascinating is those cars are getting of the age, and this is also true with Ferraris too,

where you can buy a car and you can actually get it plated and put a proper title on it.

And if you want to, you know, get a hot rod 355, buy an old 355 challenge, 95s and 96s,

and that's a street car that you can get plates on, you can put it maybe in an interior in it,

and then you have, you know, kind of kind of fun. So I think I go ahead.

I mean, for years, I thought about a 996.1 cup car that no one cares about,

and do exactly that, make it a modern RS, like what the RSRs were, and then you go drive it,

you know, I don't know though, those don't have VIN numbers, they have part numbers,

those cars, that's the only thing I don't know.

You can get stuff titled on Bill with sale, as long as it's old enough.

All right, there you go.

Yeah, that's the reason that, yeah.

He got to be living on an island, and they'll be glad to do it for you.

No, dude, you can get it in Montana.

Yeah. All right. So do you have the, so we have, I have a friend named Dylan,

and he had a 993 that hopefully Paul's going to find, and I'm interested in what you got.

This is a bonus section, all right? And his specific question was, what's my car worth?

All right, so there it is. And that's Dylan, and I know he's going to be listening.

So that's Dylan's 993. It was made into an RS, and Paul, go ahead.

Okay, so it's a 96993, rest of world, Euro car, Japan delivery, but left-hand drive.

You guys got to guess the value. What do you think it's worth?

It's got 60,000 miles. It has no sunroof, polar silver.

It, let's see, yeah, sorry, it's got 105,000 kilometers, which is 62,000 miles.

It's here in Florida with a Florida title, bodies in excellent shape, no major dents,

some minor rock chips, et cetera. Most of the work he's done is on the cosmetics.

It has, the interior appears to be pretty stock. It's got the 993 RS steering wheel, 993 RS

shifter, maybe pedals. I think the seats and everything else are pretty much the same with

the regular radio. Most of the work's done on the outside. He's got the, and I don't think these

are factory parts. They're probably, there's lots of good companies that make really nice parts.

He's got the rear spoiler, the front, he's got the front spoiler.

It's at 60,000 miles. It's polar silver. And so the question, the question is,

stock motors, stock motors, stock mechanicals, it's got, it's got a remote reservoir adjustable

shocks. That's the only upgrade I saw.

All right. So what's it worth? Who wants to go first?

I'll go. Go ahead.

I would say that that car is going to bring

160. He's going to love you. Casey, what do you think?

85 grand. He's going to hate you.

He's going to hate you. Holy crap.

He can send it to me. I'll sign it for him for the, you know, I'll take my keys.

So, Kramer, Paul, what do you think?

I think it's going to be somewhere in the 90s. It might, might just poke right over 100.

Like I told Tim when we were talking about this car, the challenge is California market

off the table. Everyone says, oh, 25 year rule, a 17 digit VIN that's not a US VIN comes into

California 81 and newer and they automatically kick you to bar beer, beer of automotive repair.

And that is a nightmare you don't even want to participate in because it's going to take

years and tens of thousands of dollars to legalize a car that's basically engine wise.

People forget nine, six, fours and newer are world motors. There's nothing. It's not like

the G bodies. They didn't get high compression motor. The only thing going for this car is a

sunroof delete, which is very rare in a US car. It's not like a crazy great color.

It's mechanically stock. It's for the most part, it doesn't have like a three eight.

So the RS, the thing we saw, the Mexico blue one that bid to 200 last week that didn't sell,

what was going for that was it was a cool color, Mexico blue, and it was an RSR wide body,

which is a bigger deal. I've sold cars like this. They're, they're, I actually posted for one of

the questions, you know, check out this car we sold earlier this year. It's like the same exact car.

It's the same exact car, except it's registrable in California. It had similar modifications

and it had similar miles. And guess what? It sold for a hundred grand. So now I'm gonna,

I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell Dylan how to make $20,000 on that car by spending 10.

You ready for it? Yep. Let's go. Go to Suncoast Porsche. You can buy a set of factory 993 RS

speed line wheels for like 11 grand. You take the wheels that are on the car off,

you put on those speed line wheels and you sell it with the wheels that make it look like a Carrera

RS. And I really think that that would make that car $110,000, $115,000 car to the right guy.

He's not wrong. As long as all the other stuff is right.

You could even get, you could even get a set of leather pole positions and throw them in the car.

That's cheap thrills and that further solidifies that RS feel because that was a huge thing that

held that blue car back. Yep. So I think with, I mean, I know people don't like to spend money

when they go to sell a car, but if you're gonna, if you're gonna make it look like an RS, do it.

So what are you guys seeing the market is right now though? So the reason that I'm going high

is because I'm thinking even basic 911s, pretty much, you know, basic 993 is still trading around

100 in my area. But here's the thing that people forget is the buyers today, if more than anything,

yes, there's buyer enthusiasm, but they are savvy. They've got all these data points.

And what I find is there's a big gap between the sellers and the buyers. I'm in the middle

being drawn in quarter, trying to bring them together. The buyers, I mean, I have more buyers

asking me about fricking 993s. We're getting tomorrow a night thing about this a 95 mostly

one owner SoCal adventuring green 993 C2 manual coupe with 39,000 miles.

I put one little thing on the back of my email for something else. I think our newsletter,

I put an email to our audience saying at the very bottom, hey, this is coming. I got 40 people

asking me for it. And it's just been nonstop. What color is the interior?

A classic gray, the dark gray. Yeah, man, but it's original paint. It is a like any service to

the most expensive, the most desirable shop in Southern California. And it's just kind of crazy

the demand for this. Price wise, this is going to be really tough. It's borderline reference

example collector grade. It's like right on that price. Where are you going to price it? If someone

says, I think it's going to be somewhere in the mid 120s. Okay, that's what I would have said,

ownership. Yeah. But but here's here's the funny thing on the other flip side, we have another guy

with a silver 96 993 with guess what 65,000 miles. It's got a little paintwork. It's really clean.

It's got it's pretty much slightly modified. He put different wheels on. Oh my god, stop. And then

Casey just put on speed lean wheels. And and the and that car is going to be guess what 90 grand,

you know, okay, you know, just normal color, it's got 60,000 miles, not quite as clean and crisp.

To your point, though, about Dylan's car, if that was car, if that car you said right around,

you're basically hitting it right around 90 to 100 grand. If it was legal to sell in California,

would you give it any more value? Absolutely. I would give it at least 10 to 15% more value.

So if you were to do what Casey, I think was smart in suggesting the seats and the wheels,

I mean, and it was a California legal car, would you would it be worth it? It would be in the

120s. And here's here's something interesting I've seen just anecdotally from clients,

non California, because first of all, as we if you listen to the news,

states are cracking down on LLCs, Montana LLCs, you name it, not states, Paul, not states. No, no,

no, like Illinois, Illinois, Georgia, Alabama, there's a few other states that are really going

after me. I mean, Ohio's going after it. There's Maryland, Maryland, they're all starting to really

crack down. So there's a bit of a fear that we're normally be like, no big deal, I'll just get an

LLC and throw it in there. But I would say what I have buyers that are not in California, they can

easily buy a car like Dylan's no problem. They live in, you know, Florida, like he does, and it's

easy to register. But even though they will, they have nothing to do with California, they're worried

about their exit strategy of what the car will sell for before they even buy it, knowing that

probably 40% of the portion buying market in California is exempt and becoming more exempt

because those buyers are more afraid of trying to find loopholes to register that.

Well, it's worth mentioning because I the disdain over people registering cars, old cars in Montana

is a classism if there ever was because people are just assuming someone's trying to dodge the

taxes on their new fancy car. But the reality of it is, is a lot of people are using Montana

registrations because they can't get their 25 year old cars registered in smog because the

draconian laws that don't even make any sense. It's the Lenin law, the Lenin law should have passed

and people who drive these cars hardly at all. So it's just it's stupidity from the bureaucracy

is what it, you know, honestly, and that's what's driving Montana. But in any event, yeah, good

stuff. All right, you guys ready to move on? Well, I want to go on the record saying that

that car is dope. I would drive it all day long. And I it's is it polar? Yeah, yeah. So I mean,

same color as my 911. I just there's just a couple of tweaks that I think could put it over the edge

to really make it worth his time. So the seats and the wheels, I think if if he wanted to make

that investment, I do believe he would get that back probably 1.5 1.8 X.

I think it's great advice. Yeah. Yeah. All right, let's move on. And fortunately,

I wrote segment vibes questions so you guys couldn't add in, you know, overly overly. Yeah.

Right. So this or that the theme, what are the true enthusiast cars that offer the greatest

return on investment in 2026, we're staying focused, you guys are in the business. So we're

staying focused. But I want to just not make it about money. Okay, so enthusiast cars that you

guys obviously have passion for and so do our listeners that will have hypothetically the

best return on investment in 2026 that are now less than $100,000. Casey, you get to go first.

So one car that I missed out on that I should have bought and I've talked about on here before

is in 2019 Volkswagen offered the Golf R, which I believe is somewhat peak

modern modern modern Volkswagen and they offered it in a spectrum series, which meant that it was

available in something like 30 colors, anything from Nogaro blue to jazz blue to Irish green to

Emily yellow to Ginster yellow, like all these amazing historic colors. And I missed out on it.

I should have done it. We got it. My wife, who is loves Volkswagen GTIs, we decided not to go for

the R because she really loved sunroofs. And you could not get an R with a sunroof or we would

have had one. So car one definitely for me is a spectrum finished manual transmission 2019 Golf R.

The one that you see behind me sold for 45 grand, something like that. It wasn't a whole lot of

money on bring a trailer, but you can see them pop up in different colors from time to time.

That would be number one. I think that that's a money in money out possibly a little bit. I mean,

you can see the people how much people love cool colors and 911s and those are always worth more

money. I believe that the direction that Volkswagen is going is away from enthusiast automobiles,

especially being that they've got rid of the manual transmission. And then of course, the other

the other statement would be a late model 997. So the one behind me, this was Michael Motor Car,

Michael's Motor Car, I think out of Pennsylvania on bring a trailer sold to this week.

This was a Carrera S with an aero kit and speed yellow, I think went for about 80 grand,

which is a great a great number on that car. Does that not seem like a phenomenal car for less

than 80 grand? Holy crap. So this one closed yesterday, right?

Wait, wait, 78. So the one behind me right now, this went for what I believe was cheap.

You know what? I watched this. This one, I agree. It went cheap.

So two things, holy against it. It's got some fake Fuchs wheels on it. They're not the factory

ones. If it had the factory ones, I want to be good. But if you look at the dish and the rear

wheel, it looks all wrong. And it's got that splitter on the front of it and it had a bunch

of yellow stuff on the inside. That car portrayed, I mean, like I said, you don't want to spend a

whole lot of money when you go to sell a car. But I do believe that if that car had factory

wheels on it and it was missing that front spoiler, I do believe it would have been worth probably

$10,000, $12,000 more. It's unfortunate because it's an awesome car. And the other thing they

didn't point out in the listing is all second gen 997s that are all wheel drive had limited

slip differentials. That wasn't pointed out in the listing. I mean, there's all kinds of things

that they could have done differently. The back of the car also had like tinted taillights. Like,

there's just a couple of things that I believe could have been changed. But the cars that those

guys put up are awesome. And just that car, when we were talking about earlier, what makes a car

is, you know, that visual pop. Like we were talking about Dylan's cars with the correct

wheels on it and those sorts of things. This car just missed. But anyway, I still believe

interesting 997s and interesting colors, regardless of transmission,

especially second gen cars, we're going to continue going up.

All right. Paul, you got to unmute yourself. I was testing to see who's got in the feedback

and I found, I think I've discovered it. All right. So Paul, what would be your favorite car

for less than $100,000? That would be the true enthusiast car that offered the greatest return

investment for 2026. Do I get to pick which car of Casey's?

We're going to go last. I'm sorry. I'm out of time. So yes, go ahead, Casey. Sorry.

I'm sorry. Go ahead, Paul. Casey, what would you choose?

I would probably choose the GTI. I think Casey was right. That C4S was a little missed the boat,

great marketing, but missed a few important things. And I think that GTI in times,

percentage wise, if we look at actual percentage wise, I think that car is going

to double in value, especially that era. I think that Mark 7 wasn't that they had like

50 colors you could choose from. It was really a cool era that unfortunately they left. So

I choose the GTI for sure. Do you guys still think they're going to be making that new Mark,

the new Golf R with the Audi RS3 motor in it? Have you heard anything else about that?

I know. I think it was Cliff Bate. Yeah. I think it was too. All right. So Paul,

you're next. And I agree with what you said, by the way. Paul, you go next. What would be the

two cars? Like Dave. Dave, you got to unmute yourself, brother.

Dave is like Marcel Marceau being a mime right now. Dave, do you want to unmute yourself and

choose which one? I've unmuted. I've unmuted. Dave, listen. So the deal with the mic is that

your mic setting, if you go in your mic setting, it's just essentially you have the mic so that

it's picking up noise from all around. And if you reset it so it's only picking up noise from

the top, then you won't get the feedback from your speakers. That's all. I'll help you with it later.

There you go. I have done nothing different than I've ever done on this podcast, gentlemen. I

don't know what's happened, but we will figure it out. We'll figure it out. I am going to pick Casey's

pick is the golf, not the yellow. Not a little bit. Thank you. Let's move on. Try Fecta. All right.

So I picked a couple cars. This was a 2015 997, sorry, 991 base Carrera seven speed manual,

dark blue metallic 74,000 miles. It's sold on bring a trailer just recently in Halloween for $72,000

without fees. Pretty nice car. Well, well presented. Nice interior decent options. It had one little

ding damage reported something stupid on car facts. On the other end, we had a 2005, which I thought

this one sold pretty strong 997.1 Carrera S coupe manual, white, which was a little unusual, but

with terracotta interior, which I like a good terracotta interior, but this is like hemorrhage

package. I mean, literally everything is red, except for like a few silver accents. It to me

is too much. I guess the headliners read 42,000 miles, pretty perfect car, good seller, well

represented, sold for $76,000. So for $76,000, you get this 997.1 with 42 miles, or you get this

991.1 base Carrera seven speed with 74,000 miles. And I think horsepower wise, they're both about

the same KC 350 ish, 345 to 355 roughly the same 911 was the 997 is 325, I believe. And that one,

I think is 350. No, no, the 997.1 was 355 base. The s was this is an s. Okay, my apologies. Sorry.

You're a 997.1 s with 355 horsepower, or you've got a 991.1 base with about the same horsepower,

I think 345 both manuals. Which do you choose Tim? The 991. Why?

Honestly, I think the interior 991 is miles better than the interior 997. That's primarily,

I've had both. And really, and that's primarily the reason. And truthfully, I think the 991 looks

better. And I don't think the driving experience would be that much different. That's, you know,

just preference. What do you think, Dave? How about you? What would you choose?

I take the 991 as well, even in base form, I think you could throw a tune on it pretty cheap,

if you wanted a little bit more horsepower. And I would agree 100% that the interior on the 991

is a far, far better interior, having owned the 991 as well. I just thought those are great cars.

And that terracotta is a lot. Yeah, I do like the terracotta. I do. You change a couple of little

pieces in there, but I do like that terracotta. Well, it definitely put black floor mats by

sending pictures to my friend. And he said, you know, asking which he liked, he's like,

I'm not sure I want the cow's mouth interior, which I like.

Casey, which do you like? I'd paint the wheels silver on the 991

and go that route. I can't do, can't do, can't do black wheels, can't do,

can't do bright red interior. It's a lot easier to change wheel color than it is the interior.

You took the black wheel on your yellow car there, though. The one behind you is got black

wheels. Well, that's the part he hated. Yeah, that's the part I'd put the factory ones back on.

Oh, okay. And the thing that was sad about this blue one was these photos were the lead photos,

but when you looked at it in not this like super glamour light and just a regular photo,

you really see the blue. It is a really midnight blue bitch in color. I agree that it was ordered

with black wheels because that was the era of 2015. But I would put on, you know what I would

actually do is silver 991.1 GT3 wheels. That would look badass. Are those wheels the center

locks or they? No, no, they're just, they're just the five spoke. You could order it on Saturday.

Carrera wheel. Carrera wheel. Yes, I hope the black wheel thing is just over and done and never

comes back. I mean, other than on vintage Fuchs wheels, yuck. And then another trick thing you

can do with 991.1 is it's an easy swap. You can get a Cayenne GTS steering wheel with the cool

three spoke. And I've watched a couple of friends do that. And you can put that on as well. Imagine

you're going with the 991. Yeah, that's funny. I think these cars, I still think these cars are

cheap. I think they're like you said, Tim, they're really good looking. They drive really well. The

interiors are massively better. And when everyone goes, ooh, 991.0, you know, 997.2, whatever, analog.

Now, I will say that and Casey, and I'm curious about eventually drilling down this, do we think

the 997.1, which gets a little bit crapped on, is a more analog, more interesting driving experience

than the 997.2 with the DFI engine in terms, you know, people just go, ooh, boar scoring and IMS and

all the other RMS. But in the end, every time I drive a 997.2, which I know is Holy Grail,

and then I drive a 997.1, the 997.1 feels like an SC, feels like happy, little pepier, little,

little attitude, minor, but you know, maybe I'm wrong. That'll be a conversation for next time.

Yes, because we do have the world's leading expert on Porsche 997s.

Mr. Parkin. Okay, I think Dave's got some interesting options. What do you got, Dave?

Are we a little, you know, a little downscale, a little bit more affordable for the average guy

who's out looking to drop something and enjoy a fun car? This one, I have always loved these cars.

This happens to be a 2005 Honda S2000. Great little kind of Miata fighter at the time, right?

I mean, that's what this car came out to compete with. Super high revving V-Tech motors.

This particular example, I just think is stunning, and it's all original. I mean,

it's unmodded. It doesn't have the, you know, nobody, you know, ricer this car, so to speak.

So this is just the way that this car came. I think the color is called Rio. What is it?

Rio, yellow? Yeah, Rio, yellow. This one had 41,000 miles, and it sold for about $40,000,

which has really surprised me because this market continues to increase,

which is why I like the S2000 as a car to buy and enjoy and sell it a little ways down the road

and not get hurt or just, you know, get your money back. I don't like any of these as pure

speculative. I'm going to buy it thinking I'm going to make money. All of these cars should all be

cars that you get in and drive and enjoy, and maybe you get out of them and it costs you a

little bit of money. Maybe you made a little bit of money, but let's just jump in and enjoy this

car. I think this one is an excellent example of the S2000. 240 horsepower, 9000 RPMs engineered

and built in Marysville, Ohio. Fantastic car. And zero torque. Yeah, zero torque, but really,

really fast driving motor. Crazy. I think they're the modern, they're the next,

what the Integra Type R is today, I think they're the next generation of collectible

Japanese. I agree 100%. All alloy panels, those cars are brilliant. Good choice. And I love the

seats and the interior on them as well. I mean, this is kind of a, you know, a decent picture

if I get my fat head out of the way, but it's a neat little car. So we're picking this. And by the

way, Casey can't fit in that car. That's why I can't choose it. It's a bummer because it's a really

cool car. It's a really cool car. Let's see, no matter what, maybe you decide to shoehorn yourself

into that car versus this car. Oh, God. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. I just never drive it.

I certainly like this one as well as a fellow 928 owner of myself, but I was really surprised

that the number of this car did. This is an 84, 928. It is an automatic car. It's not even a

manual car. It's in what I think in period is one of the most boring and kind of dull 80s colors

for a 928, of course. It does have the standard set up on the seats. So these are, I do love these

seats. And I think, I think, I think they've all voted with their facial expressions. You can tell

that's good though. Exactly. You're, you're, those are good choices because you're driving

emotional responses. So Casey, which would you choose? The 928 or the S2000?

I'd probably just donate it to a pet rescue. But, but I mean, I just sold a 928 S4 manual

for a client. And it's really, it's a really awesome car. Not far from what, what did you say

that one sold for, Dave? This one, this one went at 38, 39, I think plus fees on bring a trailer.

So not far, not far from that one, not far from there. But, but I, I got it, I got to go with

the S2000. I'll maybe I'll send it down to you. You can trim some of the foam out of the seats or

bolted straight square to the ground. They're really awesome cars. I like cars that rev a lot.

It's just, I've never been able to fit comfortably in them. So Paul, I can't go with an 928. I'm

sorry. I just, I know how much those cost to fix. I can't afford that. As, as the owner of an 84,

928 automatic that I daily drive with over 200,000 miles, Casey's not wrong. The cost of ownership

is just, it's literally the automotive clickbait to get you in. Case in point, I bought mine

from the second owner original paint with 190,000 miles. I've got 225,000 miles. I bought it for

in 10 years ago for 6,500 tons of work. I have now put another 20,000 into it to make it a reliable

car that I can take on rallies and drive and the cruise control works and air conditioning works.

I adore that car and it's an automatic. And honestly, you can get me on a high horse about

the 928 is better as an automatic than a manual. I think the people who have manual 928s, they

wax poetic about it because they haven't driven a 911 manual. And if they drove a 911 manual,

they realize if I want a manual experience, I'm not going to get in the 928. Honda S2000,

I remember sitting at the LA Auto Show, just bewildered that an RPM went to 9, remember that in

the morning, I got to drive one and my mind unblew and I was sort of underwhelmed.

When we were selling real estate, and this was back in Ohio a long time ago in those S2000s,

before they actually released, we listed a house for one of the engineers on the S2000.

And he wouldn't, and I knew it was coming out, everyone heard about it, but nobody knew the

details. And I was trying to get him to tell me what the actual art that the red line was,

because that was the big, you know, oh my gosh, did they actually make it to 9,000? He would

never tell me. But the amount of engineering that he said they put into making that car,

the way it felt balanced wise between the shifter and between all this, you know, all the touch

points, the impression I got was there's no way Honda made money on those cars. So so far,

with love and respect to all of you, I would say Dave is winning, but he's about to lose because

I'm up next. So here are the two choices. Here are the two choices. What did you pick though,

Tim, out of mind? You took the S2000, did you? You took the Honda. Okay, very good. Got it.

Okay. All right. So thank you, Paul. So next up, my two choices are, and I'm not even going to try

to sell on you guys in either one. I've had both of these cars, and I'll reserve my opinion for

a second. But a Lotus Elise, which you can, you know, both of these are in the same price range,

or there you go, an Alpha 4C. Thank you. And so Jules and I have had an orange Lotus Elise

and then we had both the Coupe and the Spider version of the Alfa Romeo 4C. And the Alfa

Romeo 4C actually feels like an exotic car because it's all carbon fiber. It does definitely feel

special. Between the two of them, you know, that's, I don't know what to say without giving

too much of a bias towards which one I would choose, but those two cars, and I've been watching

these in value and value wise, because I'd like to have both of them back. There's cars I regret

selling. They're not great money makers, obviously, but I will mention that the Alpha 4C, I forget what

there's a last run of those things. And those cars are selling on bat with no miles on them for 150

grand. So they have more than, more than doubled, almost tripled in value. But if you can buy essentially

a semi exotic alpha, all carbon fiber, you know, special motor, everything was specifically made

just for that car. The only downside of that car is similar to the downside of the Lotus.

The Alfa's transmission is not the greatest, but the engine's a hell of a lot of fun. It makes

crazy fun noises. The Lotus, you do have to modify it to get the most out of it because the Toyota

parts kind of hold it back. All right, Casey, what would you choose and you can't say donate to your

nearest cat charity? Wouldn't be a cat charity. Dog charity. Yeah, dog charity. So I remember we had

a Alpha 4C, I think at the experience center in Atlanta when we were, when you do a new vehicle

launch in New York with Porsche, they bring a bunch of competitive cars in and the transmission in

that car was abysmal. It was worse than a Lexus LFA, if that's possible. And I remember we broke

the Alpha. And I think if I'm not mistaken, the inside of the Alpha, aren't the gauges like LCD,

like an old Casio watch? No, they're not. Okay, maybe they're kind of a combination. It's,

yeah, no, no, no, you're right. It is. I was thinking about the Lotus. You're right. You're

correct. Yeah, Lotus all day. I actually fit in the Lotus. Those are really cool cars. And the

weight on that Lotus is just, it's nothing. And it's a really cool, it hinders back to that what

we were talking about earlier about that all, all perfect steering, you know, all that old TR2

stuff. So I would be all about the Lotus. I think that's a great answer. Dave, what do you think?

If you had to choose between the two? As much as I, I'm not a fan of the Elises, the, you know,

the whole roof setup, I think is kind of cheesy, especially the when it's got the cloth, just the

cloth on it or whatever. I think it's not, it doesn't, it doesn't fit as well. I would probably

still have to take that though over this Alpha just because I just don't think the Alpha is going

to be highly reliable. It's, I think the Alpha is a more attractive car. But if I had to pick

between the two, I'm going to go with the Elise for a lot of the reasons Casey mentioned as well.

I've driven that. I haven't driven the Alpha though. Interesting. Paul, what do you think?

Actually, because I want to do a commentary idea. Tim, I need to hear your answer first.

I would probably, if I had to choose, if I only have room for one of them,

which would I choose? Which would I enjoy the most? I would probably get the Alpha.

I knew it. So that was my, that was my point. So here, here's Kramer's rule. I think if you picked

the Lotus, you're, you are someone that is a Porsche driver and loves to drive. And if you pick

the Alpha, you're a Ferrari guy that goes to cars and coffee and lives on an island. Sorry, Tim.

No, here's the problem. You're just getting, you're just getting me back from the jab some

earlier. That's fine. I had to come in. Here's, here's the thing is I have not driven the Alpha.

So I can't really say, but I think the Alpha, it's one of those cars. It is like a cars and

coffee car. It's so beautiful. You list, it's, it's almost like a centerfold like Sloan walks on

the beach, carbon fiber interior or monocoque, you know, Italian design and it is beautiful. And

it has all these attributes, except when you drive it. And like, you know, Casey mentioned

a shitty transmission. You hear every journalist after another just basically reamed the driving

qualities of this car. And so I'm just going to assume that's it. And if you like to drive,

that's it. Now, Lotus, I have sold maybe a dozen of the, these from Exeges to the club sports to

just the early 06 base releases. I drove them to Monterey on car week on 229, my all-time favorite

road. That car to this day shocks me. The DOT said, okay, sell that to Americans. I mean,

it's, I think it's the last crazy car we got. We're never going to get anything like that.

And you drive those cars and you're just like V tech, very around. None of those cars tell you

about that. And to this car tells you, holy cow, it's like, it's like a four bell or carburetor.

It's amazing when it just switches gears and goes, okay, we're going from happy mode to

lunatic mode. And it's, if they're 50 grand, 50 grand gets you a great one. It's got you 50 grand

last year, the year before, it'll be 50 grand next year. You salvage title it because you hit the

front bonnet and they have to do a front clip. It's still 50 grand. I mean, they're just like this

most evergreen, unpractical car that will always be an enthusiast car. It's the guy who has more

money and doesn't need to buy a Miata. So if you had to choose between those two and Dave's S2000,

what would you choose? The Lotus all day long. All day long. You guys all choose the Lotus? Oh yeah,

all day long. Yeah. Well, I don't blame you. Honestly, having had both, they both have their

attributes. I will say the Lotus has got a lot better enthusiast community behind it. The Alfa

has got like virtually, there's two guys to sell parts for him. But you know, what is it? Sector

111 and so Cal, I think he's still around. You can get so many bad ass parts out of Europe for

the Lotus that it does ultimately for an enthusiast perspective, make for a more entertaining car.

And physically, it's smaller. The one shitty thing about the 4C, aside from the transmission,

it's wide. That car is, you know, she's a big girl. But I'll give it to you, Tim. Beautiful.

There's one that comes up to Good Vibes Breakfast Club. It sounds good and it's beautiful. It's

everything Italian. Everything you imagine Italian. Yeah. Well, so I've got other cars,

and if I had to choose one, what would I want to fit with the other cars that would be unique?

It would be the Alfa. But for all the reasons you guys stated, I'd also choose, I mean, I totally

get the Lotus. And remember, I was referring earlier to the Lotus that you could buy the S1.

That's ultimately what I would get. But I think it's twice the money is what our budget was.

All right, guys, I think we did a whole show. Didn't we? Didn't we get to all the questions

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