A mid-cycle refresh is when a car gets updated while it's still being sold, usually to make it look better or perform better. It's like giving the car a makeover before a new version comes out.
A hybrid system is a way to make cars more efficient by using both a gas engine and an electric motor. This helps save fuel and can make the car better for the environment.
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many people recognize because of its unique shape and fast performance. It's special because it's been around for a long time and is known for being fun to drive. Now, they're adding a hybrid version, which means it will use both gas and electricity to run.
A turbocharged motor is an engine that has a special device called a turbocharger. This device helps the engine get more air, which allows it to produce more power and go faster.
A plug-in hybrid is a car that uses both gas and electricity. You can charge it by plugging it in, and it can drive a certain distance using only electricity before it needs to use gas.
A battery in a car stores electricity that helps power the car's electric motor and other parts. It's important for hybrid and electric cars to work properly.
PDK is a special type of automatic transmission used in Porsches that helps the car change gears quickly and smoothly. This makes the car faster and more fun to drive.
A manual transmission is a type of car gear system where you have to change gears yourself using a stick and a pedal. It gives you more control over how the car drives.
Term
base S, GTS, turbo
'Base S', 'GTS', and 'turbo' are different versions of the Porsche 911. The base S is the regular model, GTS is a sportier version, and turbo means it has a special engine that gives it more power.
Car
Porsche GT3
The Porsche GT3 is a special version of the 911 sports car that is built for speed and performance, especially on race tracks. It has more power and better handling than regular 911s.
Car
Porsche GT4
The Porsche GT4 is a performance version of the Cayman sports car, made for people who want a fun driving experience both on the road and at the racetrack. It has special features that make it faster and more exciting to drive.
Concept
Porsche EV
Porsche EVs are electric cars made by Porsche that focus on being fast and fun to drive while also being better for the environment. They use electric power instead of gasoline, which helps reduce pollution.
An electric car runs on electricity instead of gasoline. They are becoming more common because they are better for the environment and can be cheaper to run.
An internal combustion engine is the kind of engine that most cars have used for many years. It works by burning fuel to create power that moves the car.
The Porsche Cayenne is a fancy SUV that offers a lot of space and comfort while still being fun to drive. It's popular because it mixes the style of a luxury car with the practicality of an SUV. Soon, there will be an electric version, which means it will run on batteries instead of gas.
The Porsche Boxster is a two-seater sports car that you can drive with the top down, making it great for enjoying nice weather. It's designed to handle really well, which means it's fun to drive on winding roads. The way its engine and transmission are set up helps it perform better when you drive fast.
The Porsche Taycan is a completely electric car that offers a sporty driving experience like other Porsches. It can go a long distance on a single charge, which means you don't have to plug it in all the time. It's a modern car that uses new technology to make driving fun and efficient.
A fast charger is a special station where you can charge an electric car much quicker than at regular chargers. This helps drivers get back on the road faster, especially during long trips.
The Dodge Charger is a big car that looks tough and can go really fast, making it popular among people who love powerful cars. It's known for having strong engines that give it a lot of speed. There's also an electric version coming out that can charge quickly, so it will be easier to keep it powered up.
Term
Heritage Editions
Heritage Editions are special car models that celebrate a brand's past. They often have unique designs and colors that make them stand out from regular models.
Part
toffee-colored brown leather
Toffee-colored brown leather is a fancy type of leather used in car interiors. It looks nice and feels good to sit on, making the inside of the car feel more luxurious.
The Lykan HyperSport is a very expensive sports car made by W Motors. It's famous for its luxury and high-tech features, like special wheels and glass that make it unique.
The GT3 is a special version of the Porsche 911 that is built for speed and handling, making it great for racing. It has a powerful engine and special features that help it perform better than regular cars.
Term
T
The 'T' in car names usually means it's a Touring model, focusing more on comfort and usability than on high performance.
Term
special editions
Special editions are special versions of cars that have unique designs or features, making them different from regular models.
Rear wheel steer means the back wheels can turn slightly when you turn the front wheels. This helps the car turn better and stay stable at high speeds.
Term
wide body kits
Wide body kits are parts added to a car to make it wider. This can help with handling and gives the car a sportier look.
The Porsche Panamera is a fancy car with four doors that can fit more people and luggage. It's designed to be very fast and comfortable, making it great for long drives. The GTS version is even sportier, meaning it has special features to make it go faster and handle better.
The Chevrolet Corvette C8 is the latest version of the Corvette sports car, known for its powerful engine and sleek design. It's a popular choice for those looking for a fast and stylish car.
The Porsche Cayman is a sporty car that has a hard top instead of a convertible roof, making it a bit different from the Boxster. It's designed to be fun to drive and handles really well. Soon, they will only sell electric versions, which means it will run on batteries instead of gas.
LIVE
Welcome to Renthousiast Radio, the podcast where Will and Derek navigate the winding
roads of Porsche Obsession, exploring the good and the bad of Porsche ownership.
Grab your favorite beverage, pull up a chair, and join us, Renthousiast Radio, because life's
too short not to talk about Porsches.
Welcome to Renthousiast Radio.
I'm Will and I'm Derek.
And in today's episode, we're going to do something a little bit different.
I mean, usually the content we publish, for better or for worse, is user experience content,
our personal experience owning, driving these cars, maybe interviewing subject matter experts.
And in this video, we actually are going to talk about maybe something that's a little
bit not the usual for us.
So let me try to frame this up for you guys.
Renthousiast.com is a website that is a place for Porsche fanatics to consume good content.
There are forms on there for, they have cars for sale, there's a marketplace, there's also
good posts in here on Porsche.
And every now and then they publish really intriguing articles and they'll send an email
out to the list of subscribers such as myself, notifying you that these emails or that these
articles are now available.
And I saw one come through my inbox the other day and I shared it with Derek.
I said, hey man, why don't we talk a little bit about this on an upcoming episode.
And so in today's episode, we're going to discuss the Renthousiast article.
It's called Porsche's Biggest Winds of 2025 and the Quiet Mist Steps.
So Derek, you want to add a little something here and then we'll dive into the winds and
maybe the losses?
Yeah, two things.
Number one will, I don't know why every single website does this, but instead of just having
an article with a list that you can just read through, this is one of those things where
you have to click through pain to pain with each individual point.
And so it makes me always wonder if it's AI generated or not.
So maybe we're commenting on an AI generated post, but what was interesting is that some
of the wins, some of the losses I agreed with, I kind of agreed with, I didn't agree with.
And so I was, you know, for craps and giggles, like, let's just go through it and just see
what the audience out there thinks because 2025, coming into 26 was an interesting year
for Porsche.
Some would say it was a big loss of a year from a revenue standpoint, from a market
development standpoint.
Other people would say it's a huge win in terms of the amount of cars they built and
sold, et cetera.
So yeah, we have a lot to talk about.
Okay, man.
Well, yeah, first of all, I don't know that it's an AI generated article.
I think it's like, I don't know, it might allow the site to serve you more ads.
I mean, this is one of those sites that has, it's so annoying sometimes, man.
You just want to like look at a listing or you just want to read an article and you get
hammered with all sorts of antiquated pop-ups.
Pop-ups.
Yeah.
I'm looking at one right now, it's Granger and it looks like they selling extension
cords.
It's like, I'm good.
Yeah.
I know.
I know.
Ooh, there's on socks, too.
Well, I don't want to know what kind of tabs you have open in your...
Oh, shit.
I guess electrical extension cords in anticipation of who knows what and then socks, on socks.
All right.
Anyway, back to it.
I think, Derek, why don't we do this?
I mean, I'll scroll through these guys and you can kind of give me your response, your
thought on what they're saying and then we'll just take it from there.
So let us now get into it.
So when number one, Derek, they say that the 992.2 transition was largely handled with
restraint.
What do you think?
So for those of you that out there that don't know what the 992.2 is, just real quick, portion
whenever they come out with a new model.
In this case, the 992, it usually has two iterations over its life, the dot one and the
dot two.
And usually in that dot two, they do some pretty large mechanical refreshes, sometimes
with an aesthetic component as well, just freshens the car up before they move on to
whatever the next iteration is going to be.
We know it's not going to be the 993.
Well, I've heard it's going to be the 994, but I don't know if that's true.
Interesting.
Well, whatever comes next.
So the dot two, what was really interesting when these came out, the big huge news was
the GTS became a hybrid.
And so that was the news that stopped the clock for everyone because this is the first time
in a 911 that Porsche has introduced the hybrid system for a roadgoing consumer-grade car.
Was it handled with restraint?
Can I be honest with you?
I think it was.
I have a pro and a con for this.
Here's my pro.
What happened when Porsche pushed the boundaries for their performance in the 90s for their
motors?
They got to a point where they couldn't extract any more horsepower from their existing architecture
and they had to move to water cooling.
Everyone was up in arms.
Of course, this is still the coke and Pepsi of the Porsche world.
Are you an air cool guy?
Are you a water cool guy?
And that was the big schism in the Porsche ownership world.
And then once again, in the 2000s, Porsche ran up against the fact that their water cool
cars, because of emissions, they were really trying to get more horsepower and more performance
out of these water cool cars.
But the emission constraints coming out of Europe and the rest of the world really put
the beat down on them.
And so then they came out with a turbocharged motor for the 2017 model year, which was the
991.2.
And honestly, well, I kind of look at it as like another bellwether moment for Porsche
where, listen, coming out of Europe, they can't get any more horsepower out of the 911.
They want more performance.
The consumer wants a faster car, more capable car, and hybrid was always going to be in
the future.
And so the question is, Porsche, do you come out with a plug-in hybrid?
Do you come out with an all-electric 911?
I think they did a nice job.
There's no charging port on this car.
There's no Granger extension cord hanging out the back.
There's just a little battery.
And it gives the boost where it needs to.
And I have not driven this car yet.
I'm going to be driving this in the spring if it ever stops snowing here in New England.
But I think if you were going to go hybrid, I think Porsche did a nice job.
It was just a little bit, just a little bit for performance sake.
And from everything I've heard from people that have driven it, they did a really nice job.
So did they handle it with restraint?
I'd say yes.
But where I think they didn't do a nice job is the advent of the 992.2.
They pretty much eliminated the manual component to the lineup.
No longer is it in the GTS.
That's a hybrid PDK, now model set.
You don't have it in the S.
And I don't think you have it in the base, right?
It's only with the T, with the 992.2.
Dude, I think that's a huge miss, right?
Because now we feel like Porsche is like, I don't know what the word is.
It's almost like holding us hostage that if you want that stick,
if you want that manual driving experience, it's going to be in special models
that are either throttled for the amount of cars that they make or for price.
What do you think about that?
I mean, honestly, to be direct, I'm sort of bored with the whole like,
it's not a manual kind of conversation, you know?
I guess maybe I've seen too many Facebook groups where the guys are bitching about that.
And I mean, I understand it.
All of my Porsches are manual transmission cars.
My deal is this is, hey, if you want a manual, just look back a little bit.
Go buy a little bit of an older model or otherwise embrace what's offered to you.
Also, for me, I don't know, man, I could see myself for the first time.
I could see myself in a PDK.
I mean, the technology is incredible.
And depending on how you use the car, it's kind of like, hey,
you know, it gets a little old shifting gears if you're doing a bunch of in-town stuff.
So those are my thoughts, man.
I don't mean to come across as harsh, but it's just one of these things
that everyone's lamenting.
You know, you just feel like it's everywhere, you know?
I love a manual transmission car.
But if I wanted one, really, really wanted one, it wasn't available to me in a new 911.
I just, I'd look back a couple of generations.
Why are you so harsh, Will?
You're always so harsh.
I don't know, man.
I guess I'm just feeling a little bit punchy today.
Man, put a little sugar in your coffee, buddy.
No, listen, I get it.
I get it.
But here's where my whole thing is.
It's like, you got to hold the line when it comes to manual.
I'm fine with a lot of people take PDK, but I feel like it's a nice thing to be able to offer
and let the public decide which they want.
If you, you know, if 5% of the people take the manual, that's one thing.
But we know with Porsche, it's way more than that.
All right.
I think the better question is not what Will thinks about the manual transmission and all this.
I think an interesting question to ask is why are they doing this?
Like, do they know something we don't know?
I mean, clearly the enthusiast base, at least, and we understand the people that listen to
this shit we are talking about and the people that, you know, pay close, close attention.
Like they don't necessarily, I think, I've heard this, it makes sense.
They don't represent the, you know, the true community of people who buy these cars.
There are untold, many, many, many people who don't hang around on rentalists
who buy them and enjoy them.
And it's just a sports car.
God, that's such a good point.
It's interesting though, right?
And I haven't unpacked this in my head yet, but think about it.
The manual cars are almost always on the second market, the cars that everyone looks for, right?
I'm not saying always, but that's where you hear it, right?
I'm looking for a stick and that's on the secondary market for second and third owners.
So that means that the people buying the cars new are buying them mainly PDK
because Porsche is seeing an uptake of PDK requests in builds and whatnot.
So what does that mean?
It means the people that can afford these super expensive Porsches when they're brand new
want the PDK experience, but the secondary market that can't afford them new
and wants to buy them used would rather the manual experience.
I don't know if that's true.
I know that I would like a manual if I was going to get a car, but here's my problem.
You say like, let's look back and just get an older car, right?
It's a manual get a 2015 stick.
Go forward another 10 years, right?
When the 2025, 2026 cars are the used cars and there won't be any manuals to go back to,
you know what I mean?
It'll just be a finite thing.
Then you're going to get to buy a 20 roll car.
So I just, I like the idea of Porsche offering a stick.
I'm sad that unless you get a T that it's not an option.
I hope that changes.
I hope they don't say like, oh, well, if you want the manual car,
you get to get the sport classic or whatever they're going to call it.
But I don't want to beat this to death.
I just, I am always a manual proponent and I like PDK in certain aspects.
We've always talked about that with the turbocharged motor.
PDK is a fun car.
Come on, man.
Nothing like rowing the gears.
So I jump in my 993 at all and, you know, do that.
That's like, you know, all right, let's go to the second win because we could be talking
about this shit all day and next thing you know, it's two hour long podcast.
So win number two, GT cars continue to be the brand's credibility anchor, Derek.
Sorry, I got popups popping up everywhere over here.
I can't see.
Let's see what I'm getting now.
Adobe Acrobat Pro, that's what I'm getting.
They're advertising, I guess, a software program to me.
That's great.
Take it up your whole screen.
Oh, hold on, ink cartridges too for my printer.
Jesus Christ.
I don't know who's going to listen to this episode.
All right, let's get on point here.
I'm bored.
Let's move on.
GT cars continue to be the brand's credibility anchor.
Here's what I'll say about that.
I mean, you won't all the GT cars in this relationship.
Well, first of all, let me just ask you, could you blow that up a little bit,
you know, for the average, maybe the casual enthusiast,
like what does this actually mean?
What does this win mean to you?
So essentially, I think what it is saying is that in the world of buying a brand new Porsche,
you can buy the normal base S, GTS or turbo and none of them are normal in the grand scheme
of things, but you know what I'm saying.
And then the GT department for Porsche puts out their GT4s, their GT3s, etc.
And what this win is, is that I believe what it's saying is Porsche has held the line
in keeping those special cars, keeping them focused for the driver,
where maybe a regular base Carrera or Carrera S is more things to more people
and by its very nature, makes it a little bit more milk toast,
like a little bit more bland, because you have to appeal to a greater selection of people.
You know, you get a new GT3, it's still loud, it's still bumpy, and it's still uncompromising
in terms of what it can do on the street and on the track.
And they haven't softened it.
I mean, even here's the thing, the GT3 with the big old wing hanging on the back,
with the swan neck, or the GT3 touring, which is a GT3 in sheep's clothing with no wing,
it's reportedly the same car, right?
Same suspension, same setup, they're both the same car just looks slightly different.
And so that in itself, you know, it's a touring, it's supposed to be softer,
it's supposed to be more approachable.
And Porsche hasn't done that, because they're like, if you want a GT3,
you got to go rip it up in the track if you want to do that.
And so I give them a credit for that, for sure.
I think, but here's the other thing that I'll say about that.
With the advent of emissions, continuing to throttle future development of horsepower and
stuff, I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm pretty sure, again, this is talking,
this is you and I talking without any facts in front of us.
But I think the last two generations of GT3 were almost identical in terms of horsepower.
And so like, that's weird, right?
Because every new generation is supposed to be more horsepower, faster, better.
But Porsche has stuck to no turbocharging, normally aspirated motors, so good on them.
I think that they're down maybe 20 pound feet of torque on the new generation,
but the horsepower is about the same.
And they made up the difference in terms of lightening and doing other tricks with the car.
What I'm trying to say is, Porsche has hit a wall with all of the emissions equipment.
And they are still trying to do whatever they can to not go to turbocharging to keep the GT cars
quote unquote, pure and special and normally aspirated.
So I give them a lot of credit for that.
So I kind of agree with this.
Okay.
Good luck buying one.
Let's proceed on.
Wait, you know what?
Hang on.
So here's the thing, good luck buying one new, right?
But here's the dirty secret that no one tells you.
There's a ton of GT3s for sale on the used market.
They're not, I don't think there's any deals, but if someone wants a GT3,
you can go out and buy one tomorrow at your Porsche dealer.
They have warehouses full of them.
But aren't you overpaying?
Yeah, but you're the man that says if you want it, you got a pony up, right?
So don't buy a GT3 if you can't afford it.
I'm not rich enough to pay a hundred grand over freaking what it should be.
No, I'm kidding.
I don't think on the used market, you're getting the ADM, the additional dealer markups.
I mean, maybe some places.
I mean, there's still probably over $200,000, $250,000 for a used car, for sure.
But I mean, I guess what I'm trying to say is, do you remember during COVID, post-COVID?
You couldn't buy a GT car.
Yeah, you couldn't find them.
You couldn't buy it new.
You couldn't buy it used.
They were as rare as hen teeth.
And now, I don't know, I kind of feel like you can buy them.
You just have to pay for it.
Yeah, man.
Okay, how about this?
I'm not necessarily speaking from a position of credibility
because I have not really hunted for a newer generation GT3.
So yeah, let's move forward.
Porsche's EV execution remained class-leading.
I know nothing about this.
Will, tell me, give me your thoughts on Porsche EV.
I think that they have done a couple of things wisely.
I think the design language on the cars is very, very sick.
And I think the colors that they offer, definitely attractive.
But I think they're trying to overcome.
They're trying to do what they can to get people to actually buy them.
I happen to know they can't give away the Ticons.
Period.
The depreciation curve is sick on them.
And they have tons of them just sitting on the lot that they can't get gone.
I asked my friend who runs a dealership.
I said, hey, man, how do I get a GT3 allocation?
What do you think he told me?
Probably, I have a line of electric McCons I can sell you.
No, he said, if you buy a Ticon, I'll put you on the list and get you one, no doubt.
That's how desperate they are to sell these things.
They're not moving.
I can't speak to the execution.
I can just say as an enthusiast myself, I'm not really interested, man.
Do you remember a couple of years ago, I think it was the CEO of Porsche?
This was like, I don't know, maybe five.
When did, so the Ticon came out in 20.
So I want to say this is like 2017, 2018, not to date myself.
He came out and said, Porsche will never have an electric car.
We're going to be a gas only company.
But the tide was turning.
Tesla was taking over the market at the time.
Volvo was coming out with their electric offerings.
The American automakers were coming out with their electric cars.
Porsche was standing strong.
Then there was some sort of change up with the board or maybe the leader.
I think maybe the CEO changed or something.
And all of a sudden Porsche was in the market, but they were late to the market.
So what people don't understand is that to develop this type of platform takes three,
five years.
And so Porsche got late to the market developing an electric car.
They came out with the Ticon in 2020.
Does that sound right maybe?
And electric cars have been out for a decade.
Most of the competitors were out for at least a couple of years.
So here's the problem is that when the tide started to turn with EVs in the U.S.
because the infrastructure wasn't there and for political reasons changing the tides in terms of
the throttling of ice engines, all this to say is I feel like Porsche was late to the
market to start it.
And now unfortunately they're kind of one of the last people to go, oh man, we went in too deep.
And so they've already developed the Cayenne, which is coming out around the corner, the EV
Cayenne, the EV Macan, the Ticons.
And so I think that when Porsche launched it, launched electric cars, they almost
did a disservice by making it seem very different.
It wasn't like a Porsche.
It was an electric Porsche.
And so how it was different.
And I don't know, man, you and I both know that in the Porsche world, people love to have the
other.
It's like, oh, that's a waterpool car.
That's a trans-axle car.
That's a Boxster.
That's 991.
Well, you give them a chance to say, well, that's an EV.
That's not a real Porsche.
They're going to do it.
And so I think that's part of the problem.
I mean, I'm not going to turn this into an EV discussion episode.
I just, I mean, how long does it take to charge one of those up?
I mean, the new ones, they change the battery technology, the battery chemistry.
I think the newest Taycans get over 320 miles per charge.
And so I think you can charge at a fast charger in like under an hour, maybe 45 minutes.
So it's not like it used to be.
And I think, what did I hear that the normal person in the US drives under 50 miles a day?
And so really, it's just this range anxiety people have in their mind of why it doesn't make
sense.
That's where I was going.
But also let's talk about a really long road trip.
And I got to plan my way three chargers.
And again, I might be operating on antiquated knowledge here because initially,
when it started coming out, I was like, oh, interesting.
Like, let me take a look at this.
And then I very quickly was turned off and I haven't really looked back.
So I mean, those are my thoughts.
Listen, I think if you're going to put EV to EV, right?
If you're going to look at Tesla, you're going to look at the other brands,
you're going to look at Porsche.
I think actually Porsche, like you said, does a nice job.
The styling language is really good.
I think Ticons are beautiful.
Like one drives by in the right color.
I'm like, damn, that's a nice looking car.
And the problem is that they're not worth anything two years later.
You're losing 50% value in two years.
And so there's no bottom for EVs.
It's like your iPhone.
All of a sudden in five years, your iPhone isn't going to start getting more valuable.
It's going to be worth nothing in five years because the battery is not going to work and
it's going to be more expensive to maintain than own.
I'm not saying, I mean, these cars come with like a 10-year warranty on the battery.
So the horizon's longer.
But intrinsically, my Boxster out in the garage right now is always going to have
A value and it probably won't go lower than that value.
I can't say the same for some of the electric cars, you know,
and that makes me sad because they're so cool in so many ways.
Let's do this.
I want to keep us moving here.
Miss step one.
So now we're into the not so great things.
Pricing drift finally became impossible to ignore.
If there was a defining problem in 25, it was pricing.
Entry points climbed, optionless balloon and mid-level trims often overlapped
uncomfortably with higher performance alternatives.
How do you disagree with that?
And I can't.
I can't man.
Shannon Harper said it the other day.
Yeah.
When we interviewed him, right?
He goes tariffs in the mix, throw the tariffs in there.
Yeah.
Or honestly, I think it even started before that didn't.
I mean, Shannon Harper said people are putting ADMs markups on these cars when they were new.
And then Porsche goes, well, why should the dealers make all that money?
We're going to just raise our prices because obviously the Porsche public's willing to pay it.
So we did it to ourselves or I should say the dealers, you know, dead.
Yeah, that's tough, man.
And I'll tell you this and you and I will both agree on this.
I believe the pricing drift definitely hit in this past year in terms of everyone getting real
sticker shock.
The other thing is, is that it's just pricing out your first time buyers that are coming into
the market.
And so I think it's doing a double disservice.
People are staying with their cars longer maybe,
but people are also looking at a $250,000 Carrera S and going, what else could I buy for that?
Holy crap, like the market's wide open.
Yep.
Misstep two, trim proliferation diluted clarity.
Man, they like some terms here, don't they?
Trim proliferation diluted clarity.
That's a little bit of a tongue twister.
So by 25, their trim strategy, especially across 9-11 and SUV lines has become needlessly complex.
S, GTS, T, Turbo, Turbo S, Heritage Edition, special packages.
And you know, they're not wrong.
There's a lot going on there.
You've seen those lists where they show that, you know, Porsche has 27 different variants
of the 9-11.
You know, which one do you want to choose?
So I don't know.
I feel like if there's a market and people are buying them, that's fine.
The only thing that kind of annoys me is that potentially if you want certain models or,
I'm sorry, if you want certain options like you think are really cool,
well, then you're going to have to buy a certain model.
And that does kind of stink.
Like for example, like with the Heritage Editions, have you seen those Heritage Interiors?
Yeah, dude, they're sick.
They're sick.
Like this beautiful toffee-colored brown leather with the papita inserts.
And it's just a great place to be.
But you can only get that if you're going to pony up.
Like, I don't even know what one of those interiors costs.
It's got to be 20 grand or more.
So I hear you.
$20,000 for an interior.
I don't know.
It's a lot.
What did I hear the other day?
The Lykbao, the lightning package that makes like some magnesium wheels,
thinner glass and stuff for the car was it?
Oh, for the GT3.
And that's like $36,000.
It's like, what?
It's amazing I'm paying.
Give me those rear seats back, please.
Well, on a related note, let's see here.
Mistep number three, some special editions felt mechanically thin.
Limited colors and heritage graphics continue to command
serious premiums, often without corresponding mechanical upgrades.
Yeah.
Okay.
What do you think?
Dude, I just because I just clicked on a stupid pop-up.
I just lost my screen.
Golly.
Hang on.
All right.
No, I'm back.
I'm back.
I don't know, man.
You can only cut the pie so many times, right?
Before you start to realize that one car is bleeding over into the other
and they're pretty close and you get into an S versus a GTS versus a T.
Yes, they all feel a little different, depending for sure.
But then you start to say, well, how much money different do they feel?
And with the special editions, I think aesthetically they do a nice job
of different interiors, different rims.
But I don't know if I really feel like they're doing anything mechanically
to be like, oh, that's the car that's known for this,
or this is the car that's known for this.
It's really just more of how they look.
Do you feel that way?
I do.
I do.
I mean, to your point, they look cool,
but what are you really getting under the skin, if you will?
It's the same motor, same turbos, just maybe tuned a little differently
for 10 more horsepower here, or maybe you'll get rear wheel steer on one and not the other.
But they're not doing wide body kits from the factory,
like it was back in the base in the S days where you're like, wow, that's an S.
That's a special edition.
Now they're all wide bodies.
Whoever wrote this article, man, they do a good job.
While these cars sold well, they raised uncomfortable questions
about whether Porsche is leaning too heavily on brand equity rather than substance
in certain corners of the lineup.
Well said.
Indeed.
You go back to the well and say, hey, we're coming out with the new R.
We're coming out with a new version of this.
You know, this is our heritage pack from the 70s.
We're going to lean on the racing livery that is famous from back in the day.
We're going to give this as an option package so you can put a meatball in the door
with a racing number on it.
Yeah, man, that's exciting.
All right.
Let's go next to the misstep number four.
And I know you're going to be able to talk about this, my homework doing friend.
Weight remains the elephant in the room.
So even with impressive engineering efforts, weight gains across multiple models
became harder to excuse in 25.
The hybrid systems and added technology brought great benefits,
but also reinforced the sense that Porsche is fighting physics more than leading it.
What do you think?
Man, I just think that this speaks to the times that we live in.
All the cars are getting bigger.
They're all getting heavier.
I mean, forget it when you start adding batteries to them.
When you start looking at a Taycan that's over 4,000 pounds or any of the EVs,
but even just, what was it?
Is it the newest Turbo S?
I think is over 4,000 pounds now.
Wow.
Yeah, they're just big cars.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, the dimensions are big.
There's a lot of safety systems.
But listen, every single time, the Porsche talks to the public and they say,
well, what do you want?
We want more space.
We want more comfort.
We want air conditioned seats.
We want massaging seats in my turbo.
Well, all that crap adds up over time, right?
And you start to get bloated cars.
And then you look back at a 993 and go, oh, it's so simple.
It's so small.
It's so light.
It's so flippable.
And you're like, well, you wanted your heated massage seats.
So there you go.
What I will say is this, is that if there's one company that can make a big car drive
and feel smaller than it is, it's Porsche.
That's true.
You know, you get in a Panamera, especially like a Panamera GTS,
and you get going, that car gets smaller around you as you drive.
And I feel that way to an extent about the 911s too.
The faster you drive them, the smaller they feel.
And that's special.
And they do the good job about that.
Just don't try to fit down a narrow street.
All right.
The misstep number five, and you kind of touched on this earlier.
Enthusiast accessibility continued to erode.
So between allocation games, markups, and rapid depreciation gaps between trims,
the idea of buying into Porsche ownership felt more complicated than ever.
Cars remain excellent, but the pathway to them feels increasingly designed
for existing customers rather than new enthusiasts.
How many times do we look in the comments, Will, of our videos?
And people go, I really want, especially when we talk about some of the more expensive cars,
like the GTSs or the GT3s, and you have comment after comment being like,
I'm priced out of the market.
I can't afford these anymore.
I'm looking at these alternative models.
All day long.
All day long.
Right?
And it's just, it is what it is.
I mean, when you have old cars going for pretty much the MSRP of what they were when
they were new, you don't have that downward trend where people can jump into owning these cars
at a reasonable place and make their mistakes and have their fun.
It depends on your personal economy, like we always talk about.
But dropping 120 beans on a six or seven-year-old car isn't in everyone's future.
Just it is what it is.
Well, and you get into the whole, again, I don't know how super-wealthy people think
about their money, but like the value you're getting at 150,000 or 160,000, whatever it is
for like a new base, what's a new base going for?
I want to say like 136-ish.
Okay.
That's where it starts with no options.
Right.
You start adding, now you're at a buck and a half.
He's like, it's like, I don't know if I'm getting that kind of value out of this car.
So you start having that internal soul searching like, but yeah, dude, you see that?
991.2s, the late teens are going for 115, 120, 125, and you start to say like, well,
that car literally, the MSRP was like what, 116 or something, whatever it was, maybe less?
And you're like, so it really hasn't depreciated at all in the grand scheme of things.
It's a lot of money for a 10-year-old car.
So people go, well, what else can I get for 120?
I can get a brand new C8 Corvette, E-Ray or whatever they go for.
I don't know if that's really true, but you know what I'm saying.
And they go, well, performance, it's faster and it's brand new instead of a 10-year-old car.
People start to cross up in different models, different brands.
It just, it is what it is.
You want to spend 100?
Go get a freaking 981 GT4.
You will be happy as a clam and you ain't spending 150 on a base.
9-11.
It's true.
So you can only do that so many times.
I just feel like, when I look at the value equation, like 100,000 out and I'm in a GT4,
981 GT4, do I feel like it's well spent?
The answer is yes.
At 150 with the base 9-11, do you feel like that's money well spent?
I don't know, man.
I mean, we talked about the virtues of the base.
Like don't get me wrong, great platform, great, great trim, but you know.
So you can have enthusiasts that have money for sure, right?
And one might say of brands that are in the automotive sphere,
a lot of people that own Porsches tend to do okay in life and can afford them, right?
But I'm always thinking about the next generation.
I'm thinking about my kids.
I'm thinking about my kids' friends, right?
And I'm thinking about these aspirational cars that would be attainable,
but now are becoming less attainable.
You get a 20-something that's paying rent in New York City or outside of the city.
Are they going to be able to dream about picking up a $40,000 9-11?
That's why 996 are coming up, dude, because they're the last affordable 9-11
for the people that are young that might not have $100,000 of scratch in their pockets.
I mean, that's what I was saying.
Go buy a clapped out 996 with the IMS marrying done, high mileage all day long, then you're in what, 20?
Yep, and then Safari it.
Do it, do it.
Different episode.
All right, so there's a nice wrap up on this article.
It said what 2025 ultimately revealed.
They didn't stumble in 2025, but they didn't take many risks.
Engineering reigns sharp.
Execution competent and lineup competitive.
At the same time, pricing strategy.
Trem overload and creeping weight exposed.
Fault lines that can't be ignored forever.
So I would love to know...
Can I have one more?
Hang on.
This is my biggest one.
For 2025, deciding to not sell the Boxter and Cayman with an internal combustion engine
alongside their electric variants.
They just decided to stop the ICE engines and just go full electric with what is,
I believe, their most popular line of sports cars.
I don't understand why they decided to do that.
Of course, they've since walked it back and saying, we're going to do both.
But I think it got pushed back again to 2027.
And so this year, 2026, I believe that you cannot buy a new Boxter or Cayman.
Or if you can, maybe the electric variants are coming out later this year.
I'm not really sure.
But they stopped.
I think it was like October of last year.
They took the last orders.
You can't buy them anymore.
I mean, come on, Porsche.
Why would you do that?
Maybe they knew something we don't know.
I don't know, man.
I don't know.
I think I really honestly think it was because they thought the world was going to be different
when they looked in their crystal ball five years ahead.
But then when they got close to the end of the five years, they realized their crystal ball
wasn't calibrated.
And so they're just trying to figure it out.
So I do feel bad for them.
But at the same time, you talk about, I think our first point was when they came out of the 992.2
that they were slow and measured, and they did the right things, and they didn't overreach
when it came to introducing the hybrid.
And yet here you go shuttering the Boxster Cayman line for a pure electric.
I don't know.
I haven't met a person yet.
Have you that has said like, I'm looking forward to buying an electric Cayman or Boxster?
Not a one.
Not a one.
So anyways, we'll end it on that.
But I thought this article was kind of fun.
I mean, certainly some of the things I agree with, some of the things not.
I'm sure that we gave a lot of not exact information here.
Yeah, dude.
I mean, I don't know.
Like I said, I saw the article, it was intriguing.
I just don't keep up with kind of the, you know, Porsche strategic moves with their new stuff.
I don't know why.
I mean, it's not that I'm completely disinterested.
I'm more interested in
actually putting my hands on something and driving it and experiencing it, you know,
and I'm just, you know, not there with the new stuff.
And so I don't, I don't need to sound disinterested.
It's just kind of where I like to enjoy the hobby.
So either way, I want to make sure we link this article in the description under the video.
I'm a big fan of making sure that, you know, folks get credit for their work.
So this thing's on renlist.com.
Go check out their content.
It's actually very good and thought-provoking and way more well-informed than I am.
You switch back between reading that and going on Facebook marketplace to find your next 996
clapper that you can bring home.
Yeah. See, that's where I'd hang out because I'm getting excited about buying something,
stuffing it in the garage kind of thing, not necessarily contemplating Porsche strategic
direction in 26.
No, that doesn't keep up at night.
No, but I'll tell you what, dude, I get hammering comments quite a bit
for not being informed enough.
So I guess that just, that comes, that's the trade-off that I must accept.
So anyway, buddy, we'll figure it out together this year.
We will see how well this kind of an episode does.
But in either case, we just keep cranking every week, Derek.
Okay, buddy. Well, thanks. We'll talk next week.
All right, my man.
Where?
About this episode
Exploring Porsche's performance and challenges in 2025, Will and Derek dive into an article discussing the brand's significant wins and missteps. They analyze the transition to hybrid models, the ongoing appeal of GT cars, and the complexities of pricing and trim options that may alienate new enthusiasts. The hosts debate the merits of manual versus automatic transmissions, the impact of EVs on Porsche's identity, and the erosion of accessibility for first-time buyers. With a mix of humor and insight, this episode offers a candid look at the current state of Porsche ownership.
In this episode, Will and I break down Rennlist’s “Porsche’s Biggest Wins of 2025, And the Quiet Missteps.” We go point by point and tell you where we agree, where we push back, and what actually matters if you drive your cars and pay the bills.
We cover:
The 992.2 transition and the hybrid GTS, smart move or the start of the slide
The manual squeeze, and why Porsche keeps boxing you into certain trims
Why GT cars still carry the brand, and why buying one feels like a game
Porsche EVs, great design, brutal depreciation, and what that means for real owners
Pricing drift, option creep, and why sticker shock finally hit the mainstream
Trim overload, too many variants, and why it matters when you’re shopping used
Weight gain across the lineup, and how Porsche hides it better than anyone
The hardest truth, Porsche ownership feels less accessible than it used to
Derek’s biggest 2025 miss, the Boxster and Cayman ICE pause and the messy EV rollout
