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Pressure Shifts to McLaren & Norris in Brazil 🔥 | Unlapped
Pressure Shifts to McLaren & Norris in Brazil 🔥 | Unlapped
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About this episode
The podcast dives into the intense F1 championship battle as it heads to Brazil, focusing on McLaren drivers Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri's fluctuating form and Max Verstappen's looming threat. The hosts discuss the psychological pressures on McLaren's duo, team dynamics, and the unpredictable Brazilian weather's impact on the race. They also touch on Lewis Hamilton's challenging season with Ferrari, the rise of rookie Gabi Bordeleta, and the broader team battles across the grid. Predictions for the race and reflections on Brazil's iconic status in F1 history round out the lively discussion.
Topics:
f1 championship battle
mclaren drivers performance
max verstappen threat
team dynamics and pressure
brazilian grand prix weather
lewis hamilton ferrari season
rookie drivers
f1 team standings
race predictions
brazil grand prix history
Welcome back to Unlapped! ESPN's Nicole Briscoe and Nate Saunders get you ready for everything you need to know ahead of the Brazilian Grand Prix. Is Max Verstappen in striking distance to turn this championship on its head in Brazil? Is Lando Norris for the pressure of leading the world drivers championship? Can Oscar Piastri re-take control of the championship with only 4 racing weekends left in the season? Plus, which teams or drivers are under pressure heading into the final races of the year.
00:00 - Intro and Welcome In
00:50 - Charles Leclerc is engaged!
04:05 - Can Oscar Piastri re-gain control of championship
12:40 - Max in prime position for title push in Brazil?
16:50 - Will McLaren drivers handle the pressure?
21:50 - Lando Norris' championship to lose?
24:45 - Weather a factor
26:50 - History at Interlagos
29:56 - Bortoleto first home grand prix
33:15 - What to expect from Ferrari
39:44 - Drivers or teams under most pressure
44:26 - Podium Predictions!
48:20 - Thanks for watching!
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No annotations found
Be the first to request an explanation below.
- Intro and Welcome In
- Charles Leclerc is engaged!
- Can Oscar Piastri re-gain control of championship
- Max in prime position for title push in Brazil?
- Will McLaren drivers handle the pressure?
- Lando Norris' championship to lose?
- Weather a factor
- History at Interlagos
- Bortoleto first home grand prix
- What to expect from Ferrari
- Drivers or teams under most pressure
- Podium Predictions!
- Thanks for watching!
Select text to request an explanation
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Hello, everybody.
Here's Nate.
I'm Nicole.
Welcome to Unlapped, your weekly F1 podcast.
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Nate.
Hi.
How are you?
Hey, I'm great, Nicole.
How are you doing?
Good.
I feel like, do we have like a breaking news?
We do.
Biggest.
We need the ESPN Sports Center.
I know.
I don't even know how to do this.
The biggest news this week is congratulations to the newly engaged couple, Charles Lecler,
with the cutest engagement anywhere.
Daddy wants to marry you on their dog Leo.
I love it.
I'm so sleepy for that.
It was very, very smart use of Leo, who is our social media team will always tell us
that if they can get Charles and his girlfriend together, then it's great.
If they can get Charles, his girlfriend and Leo in the same video, it is like the
best content they can get.
So to use Leo in the engagement, fantastic.
And yeah, pretty big.
I saw it had like three million likes when I saw it, and it was like an hour old.
It's crazy.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Congrats to Charles.
And we haven't really had many F1 engagements.
No.
No.
I feel like, let's see, Max is essentially married because he and Kelly have been
together for like five years, and now they have a child together.
And I feel like the child makes it basically official that you're getting married usually,
right?
Not always, but.
I feel like the child commits you to life.
Okay, so this is a fun fact.
My mom, old school, she used to be like, oh, everything changes when you get that piece
of paper.
Because Ryan and I got, like, we, I think we got married our fourth year together.
We got engaged after three and got married after four, and she's like, oh, everything
changes when you get that piece of paper.
No, nothing changed after that piece of paper.
My last name did.
But the second that kid was born, holy hell, that's when everything changed.
So yeah, Max and Kelly are married, whether they are legally or not.
Yeah, my predictions for the races have been pretty bad this year.
So I'm going to make this a prediction that hopefully sticks.
OK, I'm going to say, I'm going to say George and Carmen.
I say George sees this now.
Carmen puts him under pressure, says going to next year, you want to be a
world champ, but I want to ring baby married.
Right. There we go.
So, you know, let's kill two birds with one stone.
That would be my prediction.
I think I might agree with you because I feel like they've talked about it
before, too, at least where they've mentioned like getting married and
like they talk about it.
How long have Carlos and Rebecca been together?
A couple of seasons, probably.
Really? I mean, I think so.
It feels like it.
I mean, also, it feels like we see their girlfriends like 15 times a race
because of the race director.
So all time blurs into one, you know, every race is like, oh,
you just forget how long they've been together.
So it's not going to be.
It's not going to be Ali and his girlfriend because Ali is a baby.
So it's not.
Should we actually stick to the things that maybe we know better?
Yeah, I feel I feel very, very unknowledgeable about relationships.
I've just realized so.
But congrats to Charles and to Alex.
Yes, that's awesome.
Although it does.
I'm going to say this one last thing.
It feels like the babies are growing up.
Hmm.
Well, it does, isn't it?
Because now you look at the grid now,
Charles is like in the middle of the pack for age.
And I remember when he was like, you know, the baby face,
it's kind of assassin coming in.
So and yeah, I mean, when you've got Kimmy Antonelli 18,
I mean, he's just turned 19.
Yes. I mean, Charles is what mid 20s.
So, you know, I mean, Max in a couple of seasons will be 30,
which is I mean, what's crazy that the fact that he's going to be 30,
the fact that he could be a five, six time champion by the time he gets there.
It's probably more that, but whatever.
Yeah.
We have an actual race this weekend.
It is on to Brazil.
And we've we've talked head nauseam, obviously,
over the last couple of weeks, just how tight this championship battle has become.
I want to start, though, again, with like Oscar,
because Oscar has been in control of this championship
since the second race of the season.
He has been the guy, whether that was the way that McLaren made it look or not.
Like that is just the way that he's been.
He has been so good and he's been so dominant
until this last little run of races where it's really sort of like been Lando's game.
Oscar has been OK.
He's not been great.
He's not been on the podium.
So the World Championship lead has changed hands,
although by one skinny little point,
what do you think Oscar has to do this weekend to regain control?
Well, I think beating Lando's got to be number one priority,
you know, whether or not they can win the race or not,
you would assume they're going to be in with a shout.
But it's been it's been such a fit by his standards this year.
Four races off the podium, you know, it's unheard of.
And from McLaren, Lando hasn't done that.
So I think just getting getting getting either ahead of Lando
or just making sure he's at the place behind Lando,
because the one thing he can't do as we get to Vegas
is that one point lead being bigger than, you know, seven points
because that's when Lando can finish first.
And it's sorry that Piastri can finish first
and Lando can, you know, can win the championship,
let's say, with a second place.
And we know that those two cars are always going to be up
at the front end.
So he just needs to stay close to Lando.
I think that this will actually,
I think be a really interesting test
of how Piastri is right now.
You know, the state of mind he's in,
whereas confidence is in.
If you look at last season, he actually finished,
you know, not great compared to Lando.
Now there were moments where he was helping Lando out
to try and win that championship.
But even generally speaking, qualifying wise, you know,
he wasn't quite on the pace of Lando.
So it'd be interesting to see if that's a trend
that carries on this year.
And if it is, obviously, he's very worrying
for his championship credentials.
But yeah, I think just-
This is not a great track for him last year.
He qualified eight finish days.
Yeah, right, exactly.
The, I guess, the results aren't there.
Yeah, and that's been,
and that's really been the surprising thing
because you were right, Nicole, from race two onwards.
I mean, if it hadn't been for that spin in Australia
that him and Lando both, not spin,
sorry, that trip across the grass that they both had,
Lando kind of saved it.
Oscar Spahn, as he came out of the corner and finished ninth.
But right up until then,
had been running right behind Lando Norris.
Pretty much all the way through to Lando Norris'
car breaking down in Zandvoort,
we were like, well, Piatru looks like the guy
who's going to win the championship at this point.
And it has flipped around massively.
And that gets into a lot of drivers' heads.
I mean, I know that we talk a lot about Piatru
being cool and collected
and Mr. kind of icing his veins,
but it's going to affect any driver,
especially when you're going for the first championship,
especially when Formula One drivers will all tell you
there's no guarantee when you get a great car,
you're going to still have one next year,
especially now with this rule change coming up.
If this is your one chance and you don't take it,
that can haunt you for a long time.
So I think that Piatru has to get
a lot of things together this weekend.
Obviously a disaster would be having
a similar weekend to Mexico,
where he's not just behind Lando,
but he's multiple positions behind him.
I think that could,
it wouldn't end the championship for him,
but it would really be like,
it's hard to see where he,
how he turns this around.
I think a demoralizing aspect to it
because in Mexico,
Lando was just on a whole different planet all weekend.
He was, yeah.
And Oscar never really was in the conversation
for being there.
It wasn't a surprise
that he wasn't in the top three for qualifying.
It was more like, okay, well, what can he get out of it?
And that's honestly been the conversation
since the podium at Monza.
That's the last time we saw him on the podium.
It was the DNF in Baku.
It was fifth in Kota and fifth in Mexico.
And I sort of also look at those two races
where he finished fifth,
that that was the best he could do.
He got a position at the end.
So to finish fifth, you're like,
oh, Gori, good job.
That's not the way it should have been.
He should be much further up the grid
in terms of conversation and ability
and what the car is.
Yeah, and that's where it's interesting,
isn't it, Nicole?
Because if he wins the championship now,
let's see, turns it around.
He might well look at those results
and say, well, look,
when my back was against the wall a little bit,
when I wasn't at one with the car,
I managed to get a decent amount of points.
I minimized the points lost to Lando,
but he has to make sure that is the narrative
because you're right.
You look at that runner form,
it's not tight to winning form.
And it's really easy to forget
that Monza was the last time,
because obviously Monza,
he potentially gave three points to Lando Norris.
Then he probably felt better
about giving Lando those three points then
because at the time he had a 34 point lead.
I wonder if you told him,
hey, in four races time,
Lando's gonna be leading the championship.
I think he would have had a few more laps
where he's like, look,
I'm not even in this place.
I'm sorry.
It's interesting how that spun around.
And I know people listening are saying
that Lando lost 25 points in Zandvoort,
but that was a car failure.
It wasn't a team order.
So it was something that McLaren could control.
So yeah, he's just got to get back on the horse.
And we know he can do it as well.
I think that's the frustrating thing for him.
We've seen how good he was earlier in the season.
And I just think for him,
Piastri earlier in the year,
the narrative was that Norris just couldn't get
on top of the car
and Piastri was super, super confident with it.
It just flipped 180.
Almost, it felt like overnight.
It's flipped like that.
Even what they're saying about it is the same.
Yeah, exactly.
I think you pointed-
They're taking the script from the,
like what Lando was saying earlier in the season
where he didn't have the confidence in the corners
and the car wasn't under him.
When I heard Oskar say that in Coda,
it was eerie because it was like,
that is the script that Lando
was using earlier in the season.
It's the same.
Yeah, and it's a driver's worst nightmare.
Especially when they've had a car that's felt one way
and then naturally a car changes
and progresses, they set it up differently.
It gets to different circuits and it's different.
I mean, McLaren haven't actually been upgrading this car.
So it is interesting that that's happened
because it's not like there's been major parts
like Red Bull have had a major,
major new upgrade since Monza.
It's just got away from him and that is frustrating.
And one thing that stood out to me that he said,
he hinted at it in Coda
and then he said it definitely in Mexico was
he's not been driving the car.
He's not changed his driving style enough
to suit the car as it is now.
He's still been relying on what was working with him
before and he hasn't brought it back around.
And that understanding and that acknowledgement
might be key going to Brazil
because clearly Lando had to do a lot of that
earlier in the season of kind of fine.
Okay, this was working last year
with the predecessor of this car.
It's not quite working now
and maybe have to change things around.
And yeah, the two of them,
I mean, the two of them all season long
until recently were racing super close together
in terms of positions
and then suddenly Piastres dropped off big time.
So that's been the biggest thing.
What I would say,
and this is where I think
if Piastres can get it together this weekend,
it is just, it's game on.
He had that terrible run
and it's basically those 34 points in the bank
have actually basically saved him.
He's still in the championship fight.
It's one point down, effectively level,
in terms of Formula One,
one point really isn't a thing, is it?
And in the context of the championship.
So if he can turn it around from Brazil onwards,
he'll be like, right, I had that points buffer.
I used it to kind of get my bad spell out of the way.
And then I came back into it.
But I don't think he can,
I don't think at this point,
he can afford another bad weekend especially.
And we'll talk about this obviously in a bit.
But with Max there as well,
you don't then want to put McLaren in a position
where you're like, well, look, Oscar, sorry,
but we actually need to think
about the drivers championship here.
And, you know, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, I mean, Abu Dhabi,
I'm sure that, you know,
they'll know going into that race where they stand.
But you don't want to put McLaren in a situation
where it's like, well, look like the smart money now
says we have to back lander
or at least we have to watch for Max coming through
so that the team wins the championship.
That's now got to be his main focus for Brazil and Vegas
is just keep himself in the fight.
Obviously finish ahead of Lando.
If you can't finish ahead of Lando,
you have to be the car behind him.
It has to be right there.
Yeah, you have to be because otherwise, you know,
I mean, if he finishes behind Lando
and it's a one-two at the next two races,
he goes into Qatar 14 points down.
You know, that's a huge amount.
Sorry, 15 points down, right?
And that, you know,
and that's not counting the sprint
that we have in Brazil as well.
So, you know, that's,
that's a really difficult point to overcome,
you know, in a short time.
Obviously Lando's done it.
You say it's a difficult point total
to overcome in a short amount of time.
I think it's really difficult for the McLaren drivers
to overcome that deficit.
Yet I look at the 36, or is it 34?
I think it was 34 for, I was going to say,
to be fair to him, Lando has done it.
So it shows you can do it in a short spot.
Right now Max is only 36 points out of the lead.
So he's 36 behind Lando.
He's 35 behind Oscar.
And the difference is,
is McLaren is in a situation
where they have two drivers.
And only one of them can win it, right?
So they're trying to protect against Max.
Max has everyone at Red Bull behind him.
They don't have to protect against anyone else
in their own garage.
They can just go for it.
And so I look at that 36 point deficit,
like it is not that big of a deficit for Max.
Also, this is a guy who has been there, done that.
This is a guy who knows how to win a championship,
who knows how to close it out.
He's also a guy who has won a close battle.
He's also a guy who's run away with it the entire season.
He's admittedly played mind games before,
not playing mind games now.
Whatever it is, it's not the same.
And you can look at it and say,
if it was Lando 36 points back,
like he was at one point last year,
most of us were riding off Lando.
Yeah, I agree.
I'm not in that situation right now with Max.
He's too close.
And the situation between the teams
and what one team has and what the other team doesn't,
I just, 36 is nothing.
I look at 36 almost like it's one.
They're almost level.
Well, and especially with that 25 point mark,
really is kind of the magic.
It's like in a game of NFL,
when you see them and they're driving for the field goal
and they put the field goal, like the target line there.
You know what I mean?
They're like, this is in range now.
They're within 25 points.
Yeah, 25 points.
If he's within that,
that's then within the margin of error, isn't it?
That's one McLaren driver doesn't finish.
Both McLaren drivers collide.
If Max wins the race,
he's level or he's ahead of them in the championship.
So, he could come out of Brazil close to that
or he could come below that.
And that's when McLaren really starts to be under pressure
because you do then start to,
Vegas, from everyone I've spoken to at Red Bull,
I think they're looking at Brazil.
If Max can have some more Brazil magic,
Vegas seems to be out of these four races,
the one they're like, we should
and we have to win that one.
I think the two that are in the desert that follow that
are probably maybe more suited to McLaren.
But if he comes through those two
and he's ahead of both those drivers,
then yeah, they're in real trouble.
So yeah, I really think he's in a great position
because he kind of can just race.
He doesn't have to worry about,
like you said, team orders.
The McLaren just does seem to be tripping over itself
every so often.
The key now, the thing for him before
was that Oscar was the one not performing.
He cut that gap to Oscar.
If Lando is now the guy in form
and he's the lead, he's the benchmark points gap,
that is the gap he now needs to worry about,
not the Piastro one.
So that's where it could be difficult.
If Norris has hit a run of form
where he's gonna finish the season strongly,
kind of carry this form through to the end of the season,
that's when I don't think Max can do it.
But if the two McLaren drivers kind of swap wins
or swap results from here on in,
then I think the doors wide open.
And going to Abu Dhabi as well,
like we've seen finales go,
even though it's not the greatest circuit
and people don't like it as a finale that much,
we have seen dramatic finishes there, 2021, obviously,
but 2010, Mark Webber and Vettel went into that race
as teammates could win the championship,
Ferrari could have won it.
And in the end, one of the Red Bulls did win it,
but it was super close.
And at one point it seemed like
neither of them might win the championship.
So there is precedent for it.
Obviously we know what happened in 2007 as well.
So yeah, I think it's, that's what I think Max,
the Max Factor has really added the spice
into the championship we needed.
Cause before when it was just the two McLarens,
it was like, okay, this is entertaining and interesting,
but it didn't quite have that explosive element.
And Max, I think-
It's not like the sex appeal to it.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Better way of putting it.
No, I don't, I understand from the driver's perspective
and the team's perspective, this is stressful.
This is really hard.
And you've reached the point in the season
with four races to go in the sprint race,
but four race weekends to go, it's very real now.
And there is a mindset between, particularly,
I think the two McLarens drivers
who have never won a championship before,
there is that switched mindset where
if you're talking about the championship
and your points position in say July,
when you're at Silverstone,
the end of the season is still a long way away.
It's not anymore.
You can almost reach out and grab it.
And that is a very real thing for two drivers
who have never won a championship before.
And suddenly that adds a layer of stress
that adds a layer of expectations
that also adds a layer of pressure
that didn't exist before.
You can sit there and talk about how
Lando wasn't living up to expectations
early on in the season all you want,
but there were still 20 races to go in the season
when we were maybe having those conversations.
That's a long freaking way to go.
Now there are four, four and a half
if you include the sprint.
I just don't, I also am in the camp of
there is a lot of stuff that can happen
between the McLaren drivers.
100%.
There's a lot of, and I am not in the camp
of people who think they will keep it clean
the rest of the way.
They are too evenly matched.
They are too close together and it is too muddy.
The idea of what is expected between the two drivers,
it is, I think it's almost,
it's almost an unrealistic expectation
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between now and the end of the season.
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Yeah, I agree.
And Singapore set the precedent in that,
you know, Lando barge past Piastry,
which I, you know, if they weren't teammates,
great move, amazing move.
I still thought it was an amazing move,
but in the context of this fight that McLaren have set up,
obviously it went over that line.
All he got, quote unquote,
all he got was those repercussions which then got dropped.
But if you're Piastry, you look at that, you're like,
all right, well, I'm not gonna back down
from a move like that now on my teammate, you know,
and Norris knows that he doesn't need to.
I mean, whatever those repercussions were,
they weren't sporting.
They weren't of a sporting nature.
You know, the team, Lando played them up in the media.
We talked about this at the time.
Lando was like, oh, it's gonna bug me.
It's gonna haunt me all season.
Zach Brown was like, no, look, they're small
and he served it already.
You know, it'll be fascinating at the end of the season
to know what those actually were.
Because obviously-
Do you have any idea?
Do you have any concept of what it was?
Because it-
Yeah, none.
I've asked Zach Brown directly
and he kind of winked and was like,
well, maybe tell you at the end of the season.
But I mean, he said, you know,
he said it's pretty draconian in terms of
it's not like one of them,
because we're all speculating in Austin, weren't we?
It's like, is it the order to go out and qualifying?
Is it gonna be Lando no longer has,
pit calls or whatever?
It didn't seem to be any of those things.
The fact that the media and fans are second guessing
always, no, exactly.
So I do wonder whether it's something more subtle
in the sense of the running order of something in practice
or maybe even in qualifying, who knows?
But nothing obvious that you could see from the outside.
They've all gone now as well.
Obviously because of what happened in Austin.
So, but that kind of, I think, to Piastri,
it summed up to him, okay, look, I've probably,
I went on Australian TV earlier this week
and they led him with our Lando,
our McLaren favoring Lando Norris in the championship.
That put me straight on the spot with it as I logged,
you know, as I logged in.
The British bias again.
Yeah, yeah. And I was laughing and I was like,
well, if I say no, then, you know,
but if you're Oscar Piastri,
but regardless of what you think about
whether McLaren is outwardly favoring McLaren or not,
if you're Oscar Piastri, you will be sitting there
thinking, I've come off worse in these,
in these 50-50s that we've had,
these things where the McLaren team have intervened.
That alone being in his head is a,
I think, is a difficult situation for them
because you can't manage them now.
You're right about saying time, Nicole,
it's perfect example.
It's easy to tell the two guys in September,
look, Lando's just had a bad pit stop.
Can you let them through?
It's the fair thing to do.
You really can't do any of that now,
even if they want to.
Because the two drivers were like, well, no,
like you said, we can see the end of the season.
It's right there.
So I think that that there, I think is gonna,
I actually, I'm not sure whether they'll clash
on track as much as whether there will be a race
when McLaren like, look,
you need to do the right thing here.
And then one of the drivers says, well,
hang on, the right thing for me.
For me is not.
To go win the championship.
Because you and I have talked about this
where it doesn't behoove either driver
to do anything that is against the team
because they don't have success
bitterly without it.
Because we talked about this on the radio
when they came on and they were asking Lando's thoughts
on which tire was better.
And they, they, they literally asked the question
to help the other side,
which in this situation was to help the other side of the garage
to help give Oscar information, which is better.
And yes, I understand the concept of like,
you can't do it alone.
But also why would I want to help you?
I want this championship too.
It is in my best interest if he's not doing okay.
It's in my best interest if he is struggling.
So let him struggle because I figured it out.
Now he's got to figure it out.
And that is human nature.
You can sit there all you want and tell me
it is in my best interest to support the team.
Yes, I get that logically, I get that.
But human nature is I've been chasing that championship
my entire life too.
And it's again within reach.
I can taste it, I can feel it, I can touch it
is right there.
So don't ask me to help them because that,
and it's a very, that's where I was like,
it's very unfair the situation that McLaren is in.
It's a total first world problem.
Oh, both of our drivers are competing
for the championship.
But Max doesn't have that.
Max can take all of the information he is getting
from whatever car, whatever,
and they don't have to worry about keeping it fair.
They don't.
All right, let me ask this question about Lando real quick.
Given what we have seen from him in the last,
what four or five races, he is a different driver.
He is performing so much better.
Is there any reason to believe that that will change?
I think this is the million dollar question now,
because now when Lando had that failure
at the Dutch Grand Prix, he spoke to us.
I remember seeing him in the pen, I was quite impressed
because he had that moment we sat on the sand dunes
and it looked devastated.
He was very philosophical when he came to us.
He said, look, now I've got nothing to lose.
You know, he made a point.
He's like, look, things can turn around quickly,
but he said, I'm racing now with nothing to lose.
And it does feel a bit like that's been the case
for a few races now.
Depression now is always on the guy
who is leading the championship,
whether it's by a point or whether it's by 100 points
because you've got the thing to lose
that everyone else wants.
Earlier in the year,
it felt like Norris came into the season
as the pre-season favorite.
I think that was part of him that thought,
I'm, you know, this is my year to be world champion.
Rightly so, he had the car.
He knows how talented he is.
He was the guy who was there last year.
Yeah, it precisely that.
And it seemed like that.
I mean, it was easy to say,
oh, he's struggling with the favorites tag.
He was obviously struggling with the car as well,
but he didn't live up to the favorites billing
in the way that, you know,
Piastri came in and lived up
to what would have been the favorites billing instead.
So now it's interesting with Norris
because we've seen, I mean,
Mexico was probably the best weekend of his career.
I mean, Monaco was up there as well this season.
Perfect weekend.
You know, he, that was a drive.
We were like, that guy looked like a world champion.
And, you know, Feb, you know,
we criticized him earlier in the year
when that wasn't the case.
He was 30 seconds ahead of second.
Yeah. I mean, just total, like the Stappen-esque dominance.
I'm his own planet.
When Max wins like that,
we're all falling and bowing down.
You landed the same thing, you know,
and so he deserved the same level of credit.
To me now, the key thing,
and we always talk about Lando, don't we?
And how he's great in terms of how in touch he is
with the mental aspect of performing
and the mental aspect of character.
That has been a stick to beat him with.
You know, he's not, you know, he's not quite,
you know, his head's not quite in the right place
when it needs to be.
If he can win the championship
with this pressure on him now,
I think he dispels that for the rest of time.
So to me, that is an interesting thing.
If Lando has an off weekend,
remember Brazil last year, 12 months ago,
he was just kind of in the cusp of the fight.
Max had that incredible, possibly the greatest weekend
any of us have ever seen before in the one.
Yes.
And Lando had an awful weekend.
He went off the turn one, I remember one of the restarts,
and that was an easy weekend to frame the,
when the lights get a bit too bright,
Naras isn't up to the challenge.
Now, in Mexico, Naras did not look like that,
but he didn't have the lead either.
You know, he was kind of catching up
and overtaking Piastri.
He's now in the lead.
He now looks like the guy that's like,
if you're gonna, the guy right now,
you'd back to win the championship,
I think would be Naras out with the two McLaren drivers.
Can he deal with that pressure?
And I think he'll answer us one way or the other.
Not just this weekend, I think Vegas as well,
but this is the first weekend since April
that he's led the championship.
So if he has a bad weekend, easy to make the step
and guess that maybe that is,
that is one of the reasons why he's, you know,
he's not performing.
The weather in Brazil is always.
Oh, it's great.
It's all over the place.
I've just been looking at the forecast.
It is like rain.
It's cold one day.
It's hot the next.
Hot the next.
Like, I've been there, I've been there twice.
I did 2017 and I was there in 21
when Max and Lewis had their two epic fights.
And the weather all weekend was just, I mean,
even if it's not raining, it's like it's cold one minute
and then it's really warm.
So you've worn like a shirt and a jumper
and then you go to the paddock and you're like,
I've never been hotter in my life.
It's such a bizarre place and a great circuit.
So I think this is such a good place
for us to carry this season on.
Okay, so who does it suit?
Well, this is the tough one with the weather
is because Red Bull, I mean, Max loves this place.
I think he's had three straight wins here
or three wins in his career.
This race and Vegas, it seems from,
and I think Lawrence was saying this last week
on the pod when we had him on.
I say when we had him on like he's a guest.
Like he's not regular part of the show.
These next two seem to favor more towards the Red Bull side
and then, you know, Katara and Abu Dhabi,
you know, go towards the McLaren side.
But if it rains, all bets are off.
And that's really when, I think when it rains,
Max can just drive anything in any weather.
So I would say in dry, normal conditions,
McLaren should just pip this
just because if you look at the,
there's a mix of high speed, of low speed,
McLaren have done well in both those places all year long.
You would just about edge it to McLaren,
but the rain massively pushes it towards Max.
So if those rain clouds are there,
I think Sunday at the moment,
it looks like the only day
where there's not masses amount of rain,
but there might be some during the sprint,
during qualifying, et cetera.
So I would say in a dry race,
maybe just to McLaren,
but I mean, Max will stop it in the rain.
We all know how good he is.
Also in the rain, you just have chaos.
You have alternate strategies.
Like it could be, you know,
what show for a variety of other reasons.
By the way, Max is going for his third straight win.
Sorry, going for it's going for his third straight.
I know I'd seen that on the run plan
that I couldn't find the run plan
as we're talking about it.
And also, I mean, this race, I've got to say,
I miss this race being the final race of the year.
For this reason, you know, that you mentioned like
when growing up, I remember as a teenager,
there was about four years running
where Brazil hosted the final race of the season.
And it was just always so good.
You know, the championship went there.
The rain was unpredictable.
Obviously, as a Brit, there was the year that Hamilton lost to,
Hamilton Alonso lost to Reichenan.
Then there was the, you know, is that Glock year,
you know, Massa and Hamilton,
there was a button winning it in 09.
There was then, well, actually in 2006.
So before that run,
Schumacher and Alonso had gone for it as well.
So just a great run at this place of title drama.
And then last year, it wasn't the championship.
The history, also just the history
and the passion of Brazil for motor sports.
And you don't wanna poo-poo anything that's happened
in the final races of the last couple of years
because like 2021 was great.
But there is a certain amount of sort of like respect
that is given, I think,
when you go to Brazil for the sport
and I just, it feels a bit more like iconic.
And it feels a bit more,
you know, when you go to the Super Bowl,
excuse me, you go to the Super Bowl
and it's great if your team is playing in it,
but it's a very corporate event.
Yeah, right.
And it sort of lacks the passion of, let's say,
like you also experienced that,
I think when you go to the college football playoff,
you know, there's a corporate element
to some of those events.
That is sort of the vibe I get
from the way that it's laid out now.
It's very corporate.
I think so.
I mean, and you-
It's a passion.
100%, I mean, look at, I mean, Vegas,
I know Formula One loved the Vegas race.
It's their own race.
Doesn't have that same atmosphere.
You know, they're trying to artificially engineer it.
Qatar, there's next to nothing.
Abu Dhabi, I mean, you can find really great fan videos
of people watching Verstappen overtake Hamilton
and they're kind of going crazy there.
So there is some atmosphere,
but it doesn't, it doesn't,
that doesn't translate onto the TV
in the same way that Brazil does.
I mean, if you go back and you watch highlights
of the 2000, I mean, the 2008 championship
is back in the news, isn't it?
Because Mass is currently trying to get the F1
and the FIA to kind of pay him compensation
for what happened there.
If you listen to when Massa goes over the line,
you can see the camera is shaking
when they think he's world champion.
I remember in 2001, when Lewis won,
we're in the media center.
It is, it was almost as loud as the Indie 500 was
when there was 200,000.
Oh no, is it, how many people sit
in the Indianapolis most speedway?
It's like-
They don't actually tell you the exact number.
Yeah, it's something insane.
And yeah, the noise there is just unbelievable.
So it is a place where, you know,
I wish, and the problem with it is,
is the more races we had in the Middle East,
I think this will get further and further kind of
wedged into the season,
which is a real shame.
But-
In the 2008 championship, I remember watching it.
We were somewhere with the Indie Car season
and we were all up in the morning.
We were all like in a conference room watching it.
And I remember like the Massa,
like just that whole moment was just like,
the heartbreak of it.
Cause we were talking about moments that,
moments that get away, the moments that haunt you,
like that for Massa.
And I thought too about JR Hildebrand crashing
out of the Indie 500 lead turn four final lap.
Like that is a moment that will haunt you
for the rest of your life.
Kind of the opposite end of that,
because it's Brazil,
it's the first home race for Gabi Bordeleta,
who has done a tremendous job over the season.
You know, we've spoken so much about
Isaac Hadjar being an impressive rookie,
obviously Antonelli as well.
There have been a number of rookies
that have had sort of like their moments,
but like Gabi has done really well.
Fifth points finish of the season
came last outing in Mexico,
and now he gets to go home.
Like from the perspective of somebody who is Brazilian,
we just talked about the sort of the history
and the passion of the sports fans,
like what is this weekend gonna be like for him?
Oh, I think it's gonna be insane.
I mean, I was just talking to a Brazilian colleague
of mine today and she, you know,
she's covered Formula One for years
and she says something that is, it is right.
You know, but the Brazilians are mad about Formula One,
if there's not a Brazilian on the racetrack
and there's been a few years where that wasn't the case,
sorry, where that was the case,
when Massa was on the grid,
even when he was driving for Williams,
even when he was finishing at the back,
it's similar to Mexico, how they were with Perez
when he was with Force India, for example.
It is such a point of pride and passion
and it's an outpouring of kind of love
and pressure really that is massive.
And I think he's gonna feel that.
I mean, part of me thinks in a weird way,
I'm sure he's gonna love the race,
but it's such a big moment in his career,
you know, the first Brazilian race.
I'm sure it will be emotional.
I remember, yeah, I know.
I remember when Massa, the year he thought he was retiring,
he actually came back,
because obviously when Rosberg quit,
Bottas left Williams, Massa came back.
But if you remember in that season,
he retired in Brazil, right in the pit lane
and there was this emotional moment
he walked up the pit lane
and the adulation he got
as that was happening was just insane.
They love their motor racing.
Obviously it stretches back beyond further back than Senna,
but they've been waiting
to kind of have another driver like Senna, you know?
And I remember a driver, sorry,
a journalist said to me when it's come to that search
for the driver, Barraquello and Massa,
the one thing they struggled with was
while they were good and they were popular,
they weren't Senna.
Now that's an insane benchmark to set, right?
It's like saying to a German,
well, unless you're Michael Schumacher
when we're really not interested in you,
but that's where it is with him.
So I don't know, you know,
obviously I'm not sitting here and saying
that Porto Leto is gonna be like Senna,
but we've heard some really exciting things about him
in terms of where he could be in a few years' time.
So I think that is gonna add an element to this
where they've got this, not just a guy
who's like, oh, this guy's in Formula One now.
He's a guy where people think
if he gets the right opportunities in the right car,
he could, well, you know,
he could challenge for a championship one day.
So there's gonna be that fire with it as well.
And you know, he's,
since the funny thing with him is, isn't it,
is that I think he finished eighth in Austria,
then Hülkenberg got on that podium.
And since then, I think Porto Leto's,
Porto Leto has been kind of the more impressive
of the two, if you looked at the results
kind of head-to-head.
So yeah, really, really exciting time for him.
And just generally for that Sauber slash Audi project,
seeing the fandom in Brazil,
I think we're really, not that they needed it,
but justify the decision to bring Porto Leto on board,
because like, you know,
having a young, exciting driver like that is big.
It's not like having Colo Pinto where it's like, yeah,
they're obsessed with him back home,
but he's not doing very well.
They're obsessed with Porto Leto back home
and he's doing really well as well.
It's perfect, perfect PR, media, marketing win.
So we talked about Charles because he got engaged
and it's the cutest thing ever.
But we haven't actually talked about
what to expect about Ferrari this weekend.
I mean, obviously Lewis Hamilton has had
a ton of great moments in Brazil over, you know,
the course of his career.
He's just not had a single great moment this year, period.
He's not been on the podium.
Yeah, fine, you can say all you want about,
he won the sprint race in China,
but that does not great moment make.
Like it's just that, oh, we're still.
Even at the time, it didn't feel like it won a Grand Prix.
And it still is, I think for a lot of fans is,
I mean, it is still clearly the B event, right?
So, but yeah, I think you're right.
I mean, and Lewis has always been a magic moments man.
I mean, Silverstone 2024 was a great example of that.
Just out of nowhere,
suddenly comes and wins the race.
And yeah, so I can guarantee you on Thursday,
Lewis will talk very glowingly about Interlagos,
you know, and he does love the place.
He's basically an honorary Brazilian driver.
I was gonna say when I was saying
between Master and Porto Leto,
there wasn't a Brazilian driver.
That kind of was in Lewis.
Like, you know, he's,
they've kind of adopted him as their own.
I think he's got like honorary citizenship,
hasn't it in Brazil?
Yeah.
And so, I mean, they do, you know, they love him.
And I mentioned Senna,
it's because he races with that kind of,
that admiration, that love of Senna.
He used to race with a helmet
that was the same color as Senna's race helmet.
And they've kind of seen him in that same mold.
So I think he loves it as a place.
Obviously has great memories from 2008 from there as well.
But we keep, I'm reluctant to say
this could be the weekend where Lewis turns it around
because to your point, Nicole,
it hasn't, something hasn't clicked there with him, has it?
And I don't think moments alone
are gonna be what saves Lewis.
Because to be fair to Lewis,
well, I don't think he's performing
exactly at the level he wants to be at.
The Ferrari is not where it needs to be.
You know, this could be their first winless season
since 2021, I think.
So, you know, there's a lot going on there.
And I think my feeling with Ferrari is
they're kind of waiting for the end of the season.
Let's get to the, get to winter, get out of there.
But I think Lewis will enjoy it.
And it'll be, it'll be cool seeing him
at Interlagos in the Ferrari.
He said that every place he's gone to,
he's still had to look at himself in the mirror
like, wow, I'm at, you know, insert circuit name here
in Ferrari red.
And I think him being at Interlagos,
obviously something that Senna never did
for a little history factoid.
Senna, the weekend he was killed,
actually spoke to Luca de Monsenmo,
who was the Ferrari chairman at that point
about racing at Ferrari.
So there is quite an affinity in Brazil
for the idea of Ferrari drivers.
And, you know, obviously Massa went there,
Barrichello went there,
but both of them were unable to win the championship.
There has always kind of been a, you know,
a fascination with the idea of winning in Brazil
with Ferrari, you know, and, and obviously so far,
those two guys weren't able to do it, but.
Still just like, sometimes I think about
the conversations we were having
before the season started and all of the excitement
and all of the expectations,
not just for the driver,
but given where Ferrari was at the end of last season
and how good they were really from the break on
and sort of what we were expecting from them.
And then you throw Lewis Hamilton into the mix
and it's an iconic driver with an iconic brand.
And then that just ups the expectations
to think about the excitement level,
the where we thought the bar was set
and then to have it had played out the way that it has,
it just feels like such a letdown,
such a massive blow.
And is there part of you at all
that feels like this has tarnished
the reputation of Lewis Hamilton?
I would say no, because I think,
and not just because it's Lewis,
I mean, I remember vehemently defending,
I mean, I am a Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan as well,
but when Brady went to the Bucs,
my friend was like, he'll ruin his legacy
if he doesn't win a Super Bowl there.
And I was like, well, he's won.
He's won.
What was it?
Six of the things.
Like, I think when you're,
when you're a driver of a certain,
like Fernando Alonso is a great example of this, right?
Like he's had some rotten seasons.
Formula One fans know how good he is.
And actually, Fernando Alonso is
on the other end of the spectrum, isn't it?
He keeps having quite and quit bad seasons,
but everyone's like, well, we know how great he is.
You know, people can see through it.
So I think, I think had, had,
had we not had those Mercedes seasons
where Lewis kind of,
Lewis was quite competitive at points,
sometimes wasn't, you know,
we saw that he was very up and down at Mercedes
when they stopped winning the titles.
I just think this is what happens
at the end of a driver's career.
You know, you have your moment in Formula One.
Max has obviously had it for a few years.
Maybe one of the McLaren drivers will have it for a bit.
You just kind of drop off and, you know,
I'm sure it'll always be the footnote, won't it?
It was like another driver who went to Ferrari
and as it stands, didn't succeed.
But I, I wrote at the start of the season,
I wrote it in the book that I always plug.
That's right there.
Yeah, yeah.
The great thing that Lewis has going for him is
he has history,
sorry, Ferrari have history in the department of
great driver comes here, doesn't win the championship.
Alonzo and Vettel have both done the same thing.
So I think that helps save the legacy a bit
because it's not like he's the only driver
that's ever gone there and not won a championship.
Some great driver and Charles DeClerc as well
hasn't won a title there, right?
So he can just say, well, look,
there's, they're the problem, not me.
And I think ultimately until somebody wins that championship,
you know, whether it's him or whether it's someone else,
that excuse I think will live.
I'm sure other people might disagree,
but for me, when you've won as much as you have,
it's like when Schumacher came back in 2010
and really did nothing for three seasons.
For me, I was like, all right, well, look, yeah, he's not,
he came back and he wasn't the same,
but he's still the greatest driver of all time
in the history books.
And Lewis is that now, you know,
in terms of the 105 wins, whatever it is.
So yeah, I wouldn't say so.
But I mean, I could totally see the people
making the argument for it, but I think-
But it is weird to think about because, you know,
for years now, we've thought of Max Verstappen
as being the be all end all driver,
can drive a shoe box,
but that same conversation is going to start
happening about him.
And at some point it does become,
it's how long you stick around in the sport,
which I think is an interesting perspective
because we've heard Max say the retirement word,
I'm not going to stick around.
And I think if any one of the drivers now walks away
before that happens, it might be Max.
You know, to pursue other things,
like he's already won four championships,
he's not yet 30.
So you do wonder if that will ever be
a conversation we have about Max,
but we can save that for a different day.
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There are still a number of things
that you need to sort of look at
as we close out this season.
There are four races to go.
There are still questions about certain seats
who will be where.
When you look at the likes of like what Alpine is doing,
when you look at the questions surrounding
the baby bull's seats and where Yuki falls into that,
drivers and teams under the most pressure
for these final races, not the championship contenders,
sort of like the other guys.
Who are you looking at as a driver, a team
who really just needs to have a solid run to the finish?
Obviously easy for us to look at the racing bulls
like you say.
I think there's a few I'm going to highlight
just because they've had different levels of success.
One is not that he's been under pressure
but Fernando Alonso and Aston Martin,
it feels like they're not in the place
you would want them to be at this point.
And there was a lot of controversy at the last race
about whether Fernando just kind of parked the car up
and didn't want to race
once he'd been asked to let's stroll through.
You don't want to go into next season
with a disgruntled Fernando Alonso.
So maybe he needs a few.
I was going to say as well,
I was looking through the results earlier
and a guy who's flown under the radar
who usually is very, very good
and I think is still very, very good
but has been eclipsed a little bit by his teammate
would be Alex Albon.
If you look at how we were talking about Albon
versus Science earlier in the season,
Albon really hasn't slid down the order at all.
He's not like he's been performing worse
but you're always compared to your teammate.
And Science did crash with Bearman in Austin.
He had that crash at the end of the race in Mexico,
just gone.
But within recent memory,
he's had a podium in Baku.
He had the third place in the sprint.
Albon.
You know, Williams are on the verge of...
That's really struggling and qualifying.
Yeah, and Williams are on the verge
of this really, really impressive season.
So they put a press release out today
about their rebranding.
They're going back to the old Frank Williams logo
or a version of it for next year, which I think is great.
Yeah, just literally slanting it a bit
but I think it's pretty cool.
Now Williams F1 team instead of Albon.
Yeah, and within the press release,
I hadn't actually worked this out mathematically
but they said they've scored
so they've got 111 points now.
More points they scored in like seven years combined.
Yeah, exactly that, which is crazy.
And so that's going to be a great story for the team
and Alex will be part of that success.
But the headline news to every bit will be like
Carlos Sainz's podium was the crowning moment of that.
So I just think for Albon as well
because I think he is such a good driver
and he is a driver that revives his career.
I'm a big fan of him.
So maybe not under pressure in that sense
but sometimes I think needs a good result or two
just to kind of change the feel of their season a bit
would be Albon for good reasons.
Speaking of Williams, I was talking to James Fowles in Austin
and we were talking about sort of the team trajectory
and where they are now compared to where they want to be
with the rules changes and things like that.
And they're bullish with their goals
and fighting for wins
and maybe even fighting for a championship in three years.
And I asked him, I was like considering
where you were last year or the season before
and where you are now,
do you think you're ahead of schedule?
And he's like, there are so many times
when I would say we are absolutely ahead of schedule.
And the interesting thing there is
when you've got a team that's ahead of schedule
then you look at the results and you're like,
oh, but we should have done more.
Yeah.
And it's sort of that balance of,
they're not updating the car,
they are focused on 2026.
And so it's interesting there to see
like the games they are making
and then when they have those down moments
where qualifying doesn't go their way
or they have like the signs, moments and stuff
that they can still look at it and be like,
well, we are ahead of schedule
because look at our points where we scored 111
despite the fact that they have literally not scored a point
since the sprint race in Austin.
In Austin, yeah.
Yeah, they've not scored a single point
since the sprint race when Carlos was third.
They still consider themselves ahead of schedule
and they still can look at it and be like,
we're on pace to finish fifth
in the championship this year.
That is massive for a team that was just bleh.
Yeah.
Well, that's it.
And they've removed themselves from that.
So I'm just looking at the championship now.
If you look at racing balls,
Aston Martin Haas and Salba.
So Williams have 111, then it's 72 points,
69 points, 62 and 60.
So if you're those next four teams,
I'd say all of them under pressure
because the difference in finishing sixth
and finishing ninth is massive in the championship.
And Williams barring a disaster
have kind of secured themselves that fifth position
which super impressive.
So yeah, I completely agree with you.
I think what we're seeing with that team
is actually really impressive.
Vowels is a big part of that,
managing to get signs is a big part of that.
But yeah, yeah, lots to,
I think we're really lucky at the moment to form the one
because wherever you look on the grid,
there's not really,
we always seem to be,
there's teams are performing well,
there's drivers performing well.
There's not like an obvious like,
this is the worst person right now in terms of form.
So yeah, I think we're in a good spot.
Let's get our podium predictions.
We accidentally skipped predicting last week.
Yeah, we did.
Which didn't help me because I'm so far behind.
Obviously my predictions I would have had that.
You're not actually that far behind
because you get a point for every driver
you get in the correct position.
But let's say you get the trifecta,
you get six points.
I have 18, somehow leading the way.
Laz has 15, you have 10.
You score 15 and like, you know, I scored nine.
That's true.
It's a big if though Nicole
because I haven't done that yet.
Since Lauren's gallivanting all around Japan right now
and taking gorgeous photos.
Just on gratuitous holiday as well.
Not even for a race, just...
Who does that?
I know, who is this guy?
What is that?
His podium predictions are as followed from three to one.
Piestri, third, Max, second, Norris, the win.
What are you going with?
Yeah, I quite like Laurences to be honest.
What do I?
On current form, and that's a fascinating one,
just as a quick one.
That's exactly what I was talking about.
If that's the order,
then that's suddenly 10 points
that Norris is ahead of Piestri.
He's also increased the gap on Max.
He's in a position where he can be like to McLaren.
That's not enough.
But then if he finishes ahead in Vegas,
I think he's then got the argument of like,
you need to back me to get over the line.
So, you know, if that happened,
that's a pretty big disaster for Piestri, I would say.
Not saying I agree with team orders,
but I'm saying, you know, from where Lando is at.
I'm also stalling for time while I work out
where I'm going to put Max.
Okay, so I'll tell you what I'm going to say.
I'm sorry, yeah, go on, go on.
Well, because while you're stalling,
then I can give you extra tips.
I've actually changed mine.
I initially had Lando winning Max second, George third.
Yeah, like that.
And I think I'm actually going to change it
and go Piestri third, Lando second, Max winning.
Yeah, okay.
That's very similar to what I was going to do.
Okay.
For Stappen win, Piestri second, Norris third,
which I think, you know, I am thinking
with my championship like, you know, media head up,
that would be great because Max closes a big gap.
Yes.
You know, Piestri goes back ahead of Norris
and you know, that stays close.
So, but yeah, I mean, the best thing that would happen
would be, if I'm honest with you,
is that neither McLaren finishes the race,
Max wins it, and then he takes a whole 25 points out.
Right.
Would be insane.
You know, from a journalistic point of view.
How fun would that be for us going into Vegas?
To Vegas, yeah, exactly.
That is it.
The ESPN's last hurrah.
Let's go.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it would be great.
So we'll see.
But I mean, I think we're in such a good spot
in the championship that literally any of those
predictions sound like they could be accurate, right?
So.
Root for chaos.
And we've just, and I like how we've just ignored
all the other teams now.
We're like, no, it's a three driver fight.
Let's just go all in.
I was tempted to throw Mercedes in there,
but I was like, no, there's too much riding on it
for everyone else.
When do you travel?
Tomorrow morning, Tuesday morning.
So I've got an all day flight to Brazil,
and then, yeah, fly back first thing Monday.
I've got to say as well,
because I got tagged in a Twitter post.
Sorry, Nikoi, this wasn't actually in the brunt plan about,
so when Max had his great win last year,
he famously called out the British media and he said,
oh, where's all the British media?
Where's all the media?
Yeah.
And then Sky left early from the circuit
to go to the airport.
And then a lot of the fans,
F1 social media at the moment is a very strange place.
There's never any context to it.
I'm gonna be doing exactly that this Sunday.
I'm basically, we're there for about two hours,
and then I'm going with Chris Madlund
and a few other journalists.
You know, we've had Chris on the show before,
straight to the airport,
because it basically means you get back to Europe
on Monday evening,
instead of getting back midday, Tuesday,
or late Tuesday, or whatever it is.
So just as an early note,
if Max does win,
and I'm not there to cover every single blow of it,
that is why it's not because I hate Max.
It's because you're British bias.
And I'll be leaving early if Lando wins.
I'll be leaving early if Piazza wins.
I'm gonna put that out there immediately.
Save travels, talk next week.
Thank you for watching or listening to Unlap.
Remember, you can catch us on the ESPN F1 YouTube channel
all season long.
So like us there, subscribe there.
And if you're listening somewhere else, great, cool.
Just hit us up with a five-star review,
and we will see you next week after Brazil.
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