Randy Pobst, the legendary SCCA Hall of Fame race car driver, joins Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott for a lively discussion filled with humor and racing anecdotes. The trio dives into Randy's extensive racing history, his love for quirky cars, and his unique take on road rage, which he humorously dubs 'road hyphen rage.' They also share stories from the track, including Randy's experiences with various vehicles, the challenges of modern car technology, and the thrill of driving at the limit. Expect plenty of laughs and insightful commentary on the automotive world.
We talk with SCCA Hall of Fame race car driver Randy Pobst. From his racing origins in a Mk1 VW Rabbit, to his 2 wins at the 24 Hours of Daytona, and his personal car collection – including his Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am and Flyin’ Moose Volvo 740.
To start, we’ll dive into Randy’s racing experience: factory contracts with Porsche, Mazda, Volvo, and Toyota. Winning the 24 Hours of Daytona not once, but twice, and his 2015 induction into the SCCA Hall of Fame. We’ll cover his exploits at Thunderhill, VIR, Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Daytona, Pikes Peak, Sonoma, Lime Rock, Willow Springs, and more!
From humble origins in a Mk1 VW Golf (no, not a GTI), to a factory-backed FX16 Toyota Corolla, to setting a Laguna Seca lap record in a McLaren Senna. Randy even worked on the set of 2 Fast 2 Furious as a driving instructor for the film's stars: Paul Walker, Tyrese Gibson, and Devon Aoki – to name a few.
Randy eventually met Jason while filming an uncooperative Cayman GT4 for Motor Trend, and, despite a rocky start when Jason unexpectedly flung a Range Rover off track while racing Randy in an Alfa Romeo 4C, the two teamed up again to film multiple Ultimate Drag Race, Lap Battle and ICONS episodes for Hagerty.
The whole gang laments some of the most irritating modern car tech: excessively bright headlights, lights that are somehow off at night, ABS systems that fully shut down when traveling backwards, AEB overreach, and EPAS systems that completely ruin a car’s limit handling by curtailing the driver’s ability to quickly catch a slide (like the Shelby GT350 Randy repeatedly spun and Jason crinkled at Willow Springs – not to mention the Unplugged Performance Tesla Model 3 Randy famously wrecked at Pikes Peak).
Speaking of handling, Randy divulges his dislike of twitchy cars like the Jaguar F-Type R and XJ, the KTM X-Bow, and Ariel Atom. Jason on the other hand loves an ass-y car like the V12 Vantage S, but says the Lotus Exige V6 Cup was so tail-happy it was uncontrollable. The Porsche Carrera GT is somewhere in the middle with mixed reviews and experience all around. While on the topic of handling dynamics, Randy tells us his secret plan to invent a fix for the C8 Corvette’s trailing throttle oversteer. He also gives praise to Porsche’s Lars Kern for his work on the latest crop of RS products – which may or may not be Randy’s favorite track cars of all time out of the box, alongside the 2014 Porsche 911 50th Anniversary Edition. All of which receive top marks on Randy’s understeer spectrum, and are polar opposites of the likes of a 1960s Cadillac.
We’ll touch on Randy’s personal car collection as well, which includes a Volvo 740 sedan and wagon, his 1977 Pontiac Trans Am “Randit” (and its oil starvation woes), Toyota Tundra tow vehicle, VW Karmann Ghia and early Tesla Model S.
Plus, Derek invents a new phrase for “road rage”, Randy bitch slaps cars out of his way, and also beautifully sings Primus’ Wynona’s Big Brown Beaver.
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"...even though we won at the Rolex 24 Daytona twice."
The Rolex 24 at Daytona is a famous car race that lasts for 24 hours. Teams race their cars around a track in Daytona, Florida, and it's known for being very challenging and exciting.
The Rolex 24 at Daytona is a prestigious endurance race held annually at Daytona International Speedway in Florida. It is part of the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship and features a variety of sports car classes competing over a 24-hour period.
"But you're in a good motor trend video. And yeah, well, you're an SCCA Hall of Fame race car driver."
The SCCA stands for the Sports Car Club of America. It's a group that organizes car races and events for people who love motorsports.
The SCCA, or Sports Car Club of America, is an organization that promotes motorsports and organizes various racing events across the United States. It is known for its grassroots racing programs and has a strong community of amateur racers.
"Rindy's is not like, oh, I race cars like the schmucks across the street or someone or Rindy's Hall of Fame. Like, I have to be nice to you for that reason. I drove a lot of little cars. I raised little cars a lot. Like I was in GT when there were prototypes. And I was in hall to see our exes when the cool guys were racing Camaro's and Porsche 944's. We should touch also on, I think, your role in the history of the Miata."
"I was in hall to see our exes when the cool guys were racing Camaro's and Porsche 944's."
The Porsche 944 is a sporty car made by Porsche in the 1980s and early 1990s. It's appreciated for its good handling and fun to drive.
The Porsche 944 is a sports car produced by Porsche from 1982 to 1991. It is known for its balanced handling and performance, making it a popular choice among enthusiasts.
"I claim. And I think this is right to be the first person ever to win a national championship in a Miata."
The Mazda Miata is a small, fun sports car that many people enjoy driving. It's known for being light and easy to handle, making it great for racing.
The Mazda Miata is a lightweight two-seater sports car that has gained a reputation for its fun driving experience and affordability. It has been a popular choice for racing and casual driving since its introduction in 1989.
"I'm talking bad. I mean, okay, when I own the Yugo."
The Yugo is a small car that was made in Yugoslavia and sold in the U.S. a long time ago. It was cheap but not very well made.
The Yugo is a small car that was produced in the former Yugoslavia and became known for its low price and basic features. It was sold in the United States during the late 1980s and early 1990s but gained a reputation for poor quality.
"...I got out of the car and I thought, this understeering pile of shit, I can't believe how bad it was."
Understeering happens when a car doesn't turn as much as you want it to. It's like when you're trying to steer around a corner, but the car keeps going straight instead of turning. This can make driving feel less responsive and more difficult.
Understeering is a handling characteristic of a vehicle where the front tires lose grip before the rear tires, causing the car to turn less sharply than intended. This can lead to a situation where the driver has to steer more to achieve the desired turn, which can be frustrating, especially in performance driving.
"When we did the track day in the E30? Oh. Oh. Here, let's go."
The BMW E30 is a popular model of the 3 Series, known for its fun driving experience and classic look. It was made in the 1980s and early 1990s and is loved by many car fans.
The BMW E30 is the second generation of the BMW 3 Series, produced from 1982 to 1994. It's known for its classic styling and engaging driving dynamics, making it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
"...it was an HPDE for novices. I know. It was a..."
HPDE means High-Performance Driving Experience. It's a chance for drivers to learn how to drive better on a racetrack, usually with help from instructors.
HPDE stands for High-Performance Driving Experience. It's an event where drivers can improve their skills on a racetrack in a controlled environment, often with instructors available to guide them.
"So you raised GTIs a lot. Mark once. Back in the day. Autocrossed, right? My very first race car was a golf, not the high-falute and super-sporty GTI."
The Volkswagen GTI is a sporty version of the regular Golf car. It's known for being fun to drive and has a more powerful engine than the standard Golf.
The Volkswagen GTI is a high-performance variant of the Volkswagen Golf, known for its sporty handling and turbocharged engine. It has become an iconic model in the hot hatch segment since its introduction in the 1970s.
"...they were rated in some places at 85 horsepower and they were rated in other places at 90."
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and more powerful the car can be.
Horsepower is a unit of measurement used to quantify the power of an engine. It indicates how much work an engine can perform over time, which directly correlates to a vehicle's performance and speed.
"...this is a long time ago. I think eight and a half to one compression and in other places at nine to one."
Compression ratio tells us how much an engine squeezes the fuel and air mixture before it burns. A higher number means more power, but it needs special fuel to work well.
The compression ratio is a measure of how much the engine compresses the air-fuel mixture before igniting it. A higher compression ratio can lead to more power and efficiency, but it also requires higher-octane fuel to prevent knocking.
"...to straighten up the exit. That's how I set the lap record at Laguna in the Santa, the McLaren Santa at the time."
The McLaren Sabre is a supercar made by McLaren, known for being very fast and having great handling. It's built for people who love high-performance cars and want something special.
The McLaren Sabre is a limited-production supercar known for its high performance and advanced engineering. It features a powerful twin-turbo V8 engine and is designed for exceptional handling on both road and track.
"The one I drove, the press car was so twitchy, loose. I couldn't carry speed through the corner."
When a car is described as 'twitchy', it means that it reacts quickly to the driver's steering, which can make it feel hard to handle, especially in turns.
In automotive terms, 'twitchy' refers to a car's tendency to be overly sensitive to steering inputs, making it feel unstable or difficult to control, especially at high speeds or during cornering.
"Just stop, turn, drag race. And it took a second and a half off my time."
A drag race is a type of car race where two cars race each other in a straight line to see which one is faster, usually over a short distance.
A drag race is a straight-line race between two vehicles, typically over a quarter-mile distance, focusing on acceleration and speed rather than handling or cornering.
"That's why I suspect Miata Racing is so competitive because the cars are so unforgiving. You spend the lap trying, getting back the speed that you lost because you made one mistake."
The Mazda MX-5 Miata is a small sports car that is fun to drive. It's light and nimble, which makes it great for racing and handling corners well.
The Mazda MX-5 Miata is a lightweight, two-seat sports car known for its excellent handling and driving dynamics. It is often praised for its balance and responsiveness, making it a favorite among driving enthusiasts and in racing scenarios.
The BMW M4 is like the M3 but in a two-door coupe style. It has a powerful engine and is built for performance driving.
The BMW M4 is the high-performance variant of the BMW 4 Series, similar to the M3 but with a two-door coupe design. It offers a powerful engine and sporty handling characteristics.
"And there's that thunder hill, two mile thunder hill."
Thunderhill Raceway is a racetrack in California where cars can be driven fast in a safe environment. It's used for racing and driving events.
Thunderhill Raceway is a popular motorsports park located in California, known for its long track layout and diverse configurations that cater to various types of racing and driving events.
"But like it was you hit a hard hit, right? You hit a curb and the shock was fucked and it was seized and we didn't know."
A shock absorber is a part of a car that helps smooth out the ride by controlling how the car moves up and down when it hits bumps. It makes driving more comfortable and keeps the tires on the ground.
A shock absorber is a component of a vehicle's suspension system that dampens the impact of bumps and irregularities in the road. It helps maintain tire contact with the road for better handling and comfort.
"Well, the tires are done multiple times over. So that's not really representative of what the car can do."
Tires are the rubber parts that help a car grip the road. They can wear out quickly, especially when driving fast or on a racetrack.
Tires are critical components of a vehicle that provide traction, handling, and stability. They wear down over time, especially during high-performance driving, affecting the car's performance.
"And you came in really hot under breaking and sort of flicked it a bit sideways and drifted the whole next corner."
Drifting is when a car slides sideways while turning. It's a way to show off driving skills and is often seen in car racing.
Drifting is a driving technique where the driver intentionally oversteers, causing the rear wheels to lose traction while maintaining control of the vehicle. This is often used in motorsports and is characterized by the car sliding sideways through a corner.
"...Thanks to Grassroots Motorsports Magazine, which used to be AutoX Magazine."
Grassroots Motorsports Magazine is a magazine that talks about car racing and car culture, especially for people who race their cars for fun. It helps readers learn more about cars and events.
Grassroots Motorsports Magazine is a publication focused on motorsports, particularly amateur racing and car culture. It provides resources, event coverage, and articles for car enthusiasts.
"And I catch and pass a doctor and on to CRX. And right after I pass him, he tries to get me back in the next corner."
The Honda CRX is a small, sporty car that was made in the 1980s and 1990s. It's known for being fun to drive and is often used in racing.
The Honda CRX is a compact car that was produced from 1983 to 1991. It is known for its lightweight design and sporty handling, making it popular among car enthusiasts and for racing.
"I was, I was racing an MR2 supercharged. I run this story."
Supercharging means adding a device to an engine that pushes more air into it, which helps the engine make more power. This makes the car go faster.
Supercharging is a method of forced induction that increases an engine's power output by compressing the intake air, allowing more air and fuel to enter the combustion chamber. This results in improved performance and acceleration.
"I was, I was racing an MR2 supercharged. I run this story."
The Toyota MR2 is a small sports car made by Toyota. It has the engine in the middle, which helps it handle well on the road, making it fun to drive.
The Toyota MR2 is a mid-engine sports car that was produced by Toyota from 1984 to 2007. It is known for its lightweight design and agile handling, making it popular among driving enthusiasts.
The radiator is a part of the car that helps keep the engine cool by getting rid of heat. If it doesn't work well, the engine can get too hot and cause problems.
The radiator is a crucial component of a vehicle's cooling system, responsible for dissipating heat from the engine coolant. It helps maintain optimal engine temperature to prevent overheating.
"...I had a Datsun 1600 Roadster that belonged to my buddy. And I was hauling a set of racing slicks to somewhere..."
The Datsun 1600 Roadster is a small, sporty car from the 1960s. It's known for being fun to drive and is often used in racing.
The Datsun 1600 Roadster is a classic sports car produced by Datsun in the 1960s. It is known for its lightweight design and sporty performance, making it popular among car enthusiasts and racers.
"...I come up behind this, I think it was a new beetle. I can't remember."
The Volkswagen Beetle is a small car that has a unique round shape. It was very popular in the past and is known for its quirky design.
The Volkswagen Beetle is a classic compact car known for its distinctive rounded shape and rear-engine layout. Originally designed in the 1930s, it became an iconic symbol of the 1960s and 1970s.
The G-Wagon is a fancy SUV made by Mercedes-Benz. It's known for being tough and stylish, often seen with rich and famous people.
The G-Wagon, or G-Class, is a luxury SUV produced by Mercedes-Benz, known for its rugged design and off-road capabilities. It's popular among celebrities and off-road enthusiasts alike.
"...full A-B-S. Oh. Because what those Mercedesists..."
A-B-A-S is a system that helps you brake harder when you really need to stop quickly, like in an emergency. It makes sure you stop as fast as possible.
A-B-A-S stands for Automatic Brake Assist System, which helps the driver apply maximum braking force in emergency situations, enhancing stopping power.
"What is it with that like 2007 generation Civic?"
The Honda Civic is a small car that many people drive. The 2007 version is part of a series that many people liked because it looks good and is easy to drive.
The Honda Civic is a compact car known for its reliability and fuel efficiency. The 2007 model belongs to the eighth generation of the Civic, which was popular among drivers for its sporty design and performance.
"...we assume even when a car is blinding us that it's just the low beams on a Ford pickup truck. That's true."
The Ford F-150 is a big truck that many people use for work or to carry things. It's very popular and known for being tough and reliable.
The Ford F-150 is a full-size pickup truck that is part of the Ford F-Series. It is known for its durability, towing capacity, and is often used for both work and personal use.
"... you a bitch was not a compliment that's your new New Yorker thinking that that was a compliment it's not a co..."
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That show is about Randy Popes. Who? Yeah. Who? Randy Popes just our guest this week on the Carmage and Show. Part of the Haggery podcast this week. We also have the guest, which is a car. We're going to ignore the Chiseta Marauder V16 TV behind us. We just have one guest. Exactly. We literally are never going to mention that. Okay. Well, moving on. Randy Popes, the SCCA Hall of Fame race
car driver, and co-star of so many of my shows, most of the funniest moments are from Randy and Derek Tam-Heifenscott. Yes. Is he here again? Ladies and gentlemen. Often I am. On this the Carmage and Show, we'll get to discuss Randy's racing history, his personal car history, his road raging tendencies. Hold on. You came up with a new name in this episode for road rage, so you guys are going to have to stay tuned to find out.
The new official term of hyphen road rage. Road hyphen rage. That road hyphen rage. That and so much more on this episode of the Carmage and Show. Thank you for joining us. I will now clap and we will begin the episode. Come on. You got to be better than that. He really. No bad. He really struggled. Randy, could you please clap for us? That's how it's done. Yeah. Wow. Thank you, Randy. You're a hero and a professional. I learned it from slapping Jason. No, you slapped me.
And that one episode. I did. That was really. Did you deserve it? Yeah. I don't remember what you said in the episode that made me smack you. Oh, yeah. I was talking about how your car is not set up right. Yes. I don't remember. You're like, well, Jason, and this was again another Randy Pope's thing. You were complaining about your car. He was complaining about the cabbie snap or no right running up on two wheels. It's not a problem. Yeah. I don't want to roll. Aren't you a motorcycleist? I am. I'm really a bike guy.
I would please run the credits. We got it. Okay. Let's hop to it. Bye.
Derek, you have a drinking problem. Put that down. This is why I pour it out myself. Yeah, exactly. Randy Popes. Welcome. Hi. Hi. I'm thrilled to be here. Are you?
Is that just like race car driver like never say anything bad because you don't know who your next sponsor is going to be? Yeah, that's pretty much the way Randy is. Randy's pretty good at that.
Well, it's not going to be us. We don't have the money to do that. So you don't have to worry about it. Offending us. Also, Randy Southerne. So that, like I said, double dose of ice cream. Actually, Southerne, or you just leave in the South, you know, born in Yankee. Always a Yankee. They say in the South, but I have lived in the South for 40 something years. You were a nice 40 some years. I mean, come on. You it's a you're a nice person until people turn around and then, you know, you're less nice.
There's a certain thing. I'm I'm the most evil to people's faces and then behind their back. I'm like, that's so genuine. Actually, no, I'm evil behind the back. Yes. I was for all reasons, but not you, but you don't really, you know what? I tell people that what I say Jason can be really nasty to people, but never me.
He respects his elders. Yeah, I'm just afraid of like the elder abuse HR case. You're so old, Randy. I'm kidding. I'm getting there, buddy. We all are except for him. He's he's 94. It looks great. He's ageless.
95 now. Yes, I had my 90 fifth birthday. I can't keep track of this. Um, so, uh, for people who don't know you. What are your qualifications for life? Like, you know, well, I've been a professional race car driver.
My almost entire life. And what I'm most proud of is I had factory driving contracts with Porsche. In other words, I did not race a Porsche. I raised four Porsche and Audi and Mazda and Volvo.
And one almost a hundred pro races. He's a whore. He'll take money and cars from anyone. It's more like a drug addict. You'll do anything to get your drug.
And including take money. Oh, miserable. God, you have life figured out.
Hardly. So I'm proud of those contracts. And then I stumbled into the car video world with motor train and not long after that, you and got to be track tester and do a little writing and mostly videos. And I found, you know what?
I'm way better known from a couple of car videos than I ever was racing cars, even though we won at the Rolex 24 Daytona twice.
But you're in a good motor trend video. And yeah, well, you're an SCCA Hall of Fame race car driver. Like, you know, and I put that any time we mentioned you anywhere. Like, and it's, that's I think really important. This is.
Rindy's is not like, oh, I race cars like the schmucks across the street or someone or Rindy's Hall of Fame. Like, I have to be nice to you for that reason.
I drove a lot of little cars. I raised little cars a lot. Like I was in GT when there were prototypes. And I was in hall to see our exes when the cool guys were racing Camaro's and Porsche 944's.
We should touch also on, I think, your role in the history of the Miata.
Oh, yeah. Well, thank you. Guess what? I claim. And I think this is right to be the first person ever to win a national championship in a Miata.
If you can fact check this internet and let us know that we appreciate it. Don't. But you, you have, right? I mean, everyone always says the Miata is like the most raised car in the world and there. And it started with Rindy.
You also have an affinity for ship boxes, which is something that I really appreciate. I do. I love odd cars.
Bad. I'm talking bad. I mean, okay, when I own the Ugo. Okay, say on purpose.
I went to a car show with that Ugo. You know, the, um,
GM's concord elements. And there was one in Rhode Atlanta. And I lived just 15 minutes from there. And I drove the car there.
And it's really quite nice. My Ugo, what's not mine anymore, but it's still in the family. My, one of my best friends owns it.
I think it's coming back someday. But like the clap or, or her piece, it never goes fully away. Does it? Oh, I don't know.
Allegedly your, your halo just flickered. Anyway.
Look at you. Look at Randy trying to be Jim. You're okay. I'm sorry. I'm the reason I want you on this podcast more than anyone else is for you to just be you.
Because there's Randy on screen who is hilarious. And then there's Randy off screen who is 50 times funnier.
Yeah, a lot less revenue and I, I really, I can't, I'd be funny on screen. Like you are funny on screen. But when you
couldn't even listen to that phrase without laughing. We wanted to we tried to have Anthony Esposito here because I'm working with you for 10 years this year. Yeah,
Andy Anthony's been working with you for 13 or 15 or whatever. Something like that.
He's the man behind the man. He's the man that he's the one that makes us look like better versions of ourselves. Yeah, and we were talking about this, but he's on a plane right now.
So we can't be, we were talking about this. The amount of times that you ruin an entire set up where the entire crew
loses it in hysterical laughter from something you've added to the script or some facial expression you make or whatever is, is just
innumerable. Almost always accidental.
Well, the one, I mean, M3 versus Tesla. You saw this, right? Where I say, well, you know, the fifth thing and the thing we're going to do in the list is tell you which one to buy.
And do you remember what you blurt it out? Yeah, I think I said you're either a right wing nut case or a left wing. Oh,
you can say anything on this podcast. I forget what I said. Libertard. Oh, a libertard. Yeah, sure. Yeah, just, I mean, we're saying on the radio shows. Yeah, exactly. All the time.
Well, we're, but I'm like, I'm literally, I love that I'm going. I went through such incredibly great lengths to make this script like perfectly PC,
offend no one, poke, very gentle fun at everyone else. And I'm, I'm trying. And you still succeeded and got massively picketed at fire pitch forked and flaming.
You were a loose with Jesus. But you were respectful.
You, you were the one who was like, well, technically God is almighty whatever. That was your line, too. You're like, I went to Catholic school. I can tell us. God's everywhere.
So technically, he did set the price. You went on this rent. That was hysterical. I'm not sure I really loved you before you put that in the show.
Because in fact, due to the concept of the Trinity, here we go, the Lord Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are three and one.
Since God is responsible. Okay, you have to watch the show. You have to watch somebody. He literally pulled that shit while we're recording.
Well, that's all educated or indoctrinated. I think it's that maybe sometimes the phrase that Randy uses as well.
Sorry.
Is this building lightning bolt proof? Yes, or we would have been dead long ago.
Somehow it's impenetrable to believe that to the Holy Spirit.
I'm really glad you put that in. I was in the outtakes. It wanted to be in the outtakes because Anthony didn't find it funny.
You know what? I believe this. I really believe this with all my heart that the videos that you and Anthony make are the best car videos ever.
Thank you. On anything TV or got a bit TV, but you know, it's because there's actually underlying information and research.
Yes.
Is opposed to just words that come out of people's mouths.
People that like cars trying to be funny. It's thing about funny. You can't try to be funny.
That's why I'm funny or when I'm not on camera.
You're funny when you're not on camera because you don't manage your appearance when you're not on camera.
It's the race car thing. I understand the race car driver. You can't offend anyone and you have to.
You never know. Truly. This is no insult.
You mean the perception. You're not managing your reputation or experience.
Exactly. You're not worried about your next sponsorship gig so you can make fun of.
The first time I was ever in a car with you. Am I allowed to talk about this?
You can talk about anything. It's ancient history.
What did you say?
No, it wasn't. I used to say 10 years ago. That's ancient history.
I used to like you. I was coming along well.
Well, I guess I will see you right.
I look in the mirror and I'm like, okay, ancient history. Go ahead.
I'm trying to put distance between some terrible thing that you said and what he's about to say.
We haven't heard yet. Maybe it wasn't terrible.
All right. It was KMNGT4.
The first time we worked together, we filmed KMNGT4 for Motor Trend at Streets.
I remember that so well.
Okay. So I got out of the car and I thought, this understeering pile of shit,
I can't believe how bad it was.
And I'm like, I'm not going to say a word because it's Randi fucking pups.
So you get in the car and the first time you came through the back section of it,
I genuinely almost shit.
I seriously barely held the feces in because you came through those last couple corners so fast that
I've been in cars with a million race car drivers.
I've never seen anyone connect corners the way you do and I've never seen anyone get in a car
and their first corner ever be at 11 and a half tenths max attack and not have a moment.
Right. And part of the reason we work with you so much other than you being funny and fun to work with
and all this other stuff is good looking.
Good looking.
Blind.
Blind cheap.
Willing to do anything for you.
Willing to do anything for you.
Is you don't have moments in the cars.
Right. You know exactly where your limits are.
You go slightly below that and you make it work.
So we're not writing off cars.
We're not you're not killing camera people typically.
And poor Johnny.
Poor story.
Poor story.
I mean, I didn't mean that Johnny.
It was just a name.
Anyway.
KMGT4.
Anthony asked you to slide around the corner and you came around and the thing just understood like a pig
and you got visibly frustrated.
I'm like, huh Randi's human.
Cool.
And the second corner and the third corner.
And then finally, I don't remember where we were on track.
But you started punching the steering wheel.
And you're like, this fucking thing is making me look like a goddamn amateur.
And I was like, Randi's a fucking human.
Like this is awesome.
Very.
That car was you saw red.
And I was just so happy to see that side of you.
Because I'd only seen this sort of produced, you know, precision.
No, no.
That's so true.
And it's a story that I tell people not.
It's not too bad.
We were last track day.
Nevermind.
We don't idea how that story.
The last time you guys were on track together, I'm not a track day.
He's bad.
I was calm.
He was the lunatic.
What?
When we did the track day in the E30?
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Here, let's go.
Let's fire him up.
It's like you take a dog and just rub them, rub them, rub them, rub them and think it's like on the junk.
No, I don't like to name names.
But we did a track day and it was for novices.
And it was not a race.
And this organization had forgotten that.
And completely forgotten that.
And specifically told all of the instructors and novice students like,
go for it and don't let anyone pass you.
And it was an HPDE for novices.
I know.
It was a...
Yeah.
And they turned into a race.
It's you and I caught a car.
And that car...
You caught a car.
That's the key to this.
If a car catches you in a track event where it's driver's education for just for fun,
it's not a race.
You let it by.
Point by.
Immediately.
Yeah.
And they will require a point by this.
And this car did not want us to get by.
No.
This car started driving harder to try to keep us behind it using its superior power.
Rather poorly, I might have.
To its detriment, I would say.
That really, really pissed me off.
And I was amazed at your restraint.
Well, listen, when somebody else around me goes crazy,
I have to be the calm one, right?
I'm typically the one who...
I'm bad cop, typically.
But in this situation, you started screaming and pointing.
And I...
I don't think you gave the middle finger.
But you were screaming...
That's right, because we were accused of that.
I'm not accused.
Yeah.
And it was just...
No, I gave him the bitch slap in the window.
Oh my god.
Oh my god.
Out of the way.
But it was misconstrued.
It was misconstrued as a middle finger.
It was misconstrued as a middle finger.
We almost got kicked out and it was really funny.
Yeah, but they darn near hit.
They really did.
Yeah.
Hit you us.
And then a little E30.
Yeah.
Poor Beatrice.
I should have never gone out in anything but, like, a group.
Right.
I mean, it was...
Whatever the other way around it.
I think we wound up going out in one of the less experienced groups.
I don't know.
That car we were with was in the good group.
Are you kidding?
Well, that driver should be banned from...
He's like gone by.
Yeah, that's true.
It had just enough corner speed.
And just enough power in this trade.
And you could kind of get up next to it.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
And it still would run down this trade.
That was when you got really mad as I sort of...
I had it.
I was...
You had a new...
I had it by a nose.
And they just turned in.
Right across your right at us.
Right across your right at us.
I'm like, okay.
You had to break or be hit.
Yeah.
Break answer.
And I'm going, this is a driver's education event.
Yeah.
This is an education event on how not to...
Yeah, I can get wound up in the car.
In the car.
I should be a chief steward kind of guy.
But I don't think I'd make it because I get really wound up.
Yeah, you're supposed to be like objective
and be the arbiter of who was right or wrong
and sort of be the middle person to keep everyone from losing it.
And you would just jump down someone's throat
because they had done something wrong
because they were freaking jackass.
But, you know...
Yeah.
Randy...
Judge Randy.
Who was Judge Randy?
A weld developed...
A weld developed sense of justice.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Yes.
Truth or my own view of whatever the justice in the moment is.
Yeah.
But...
And that was a sidebar.
Sidebar, but the fact is, Randy, though,
you're so polished on the exterior,
you are a human.
And you do see red on trial.
I've never seen you get angry outside of race events.
I'm a different guy in the car.
In the car, yeah.
I like the guy I am in the car better.
So is he.
Oh, really?
Derek.
He's one of those calm, collected blind gentlemen.
Exactly.
I mean, the best part is the rolling commentary in the car
because Derek and I do the same thing while we're driving.
We just comment on all the fuckery around us.
Yes.
And I use words that are not repeatable in public.
Derek uses these strings of intelligent words
not uttered since 1927.
And all these read adjectives that I have to look up afterwards
when he's calling somebody a shit stain,
but he adds a bunch of adjectives to it that are just hilarious.
Yeah, we have to catch it in the wild somehow.
I don't think it's ever been captured on film.
I don't know for legal purposes if you need to have that record.
That's true.
Or if it would.
But just not for distribution.
We need to provoke Derek.
We're not in the car.
All it takes is not using a turn signal or just blocking the left lane
or any fuckery behind the wheel.
Is this road rage?
No.
So rage is such a simple word used by simple people.
Come up with a dare.
Derek will have a better word for that.
Incensment.
Yeah.
Is there a better word for a synonym for road?
That's extra.
A thoroughfare?
A thoroughfare.
I too use that as a thoroughfare incensment.
A thoroughfare incensment.
That's his nod road rage.
That's good.
That's getting there.
Okay.
Back to ship boxes.
So you raised GTIs a lot.
Mark once.
Back in the day.
Autocrossed, right?
My very first race car was a golf,
not the high-falute and super-sporty GTI.
With a big block, 90 horsepower.
That's the GTI, right?
On a good day.
You know what?
76.
They were rated in some places at 85 horsepower
and they were rated in other places at 90.
They were also rated in some places at, oh gosh, this is a long time ago.
I think eight and a half to one compression and in other places at nine to one.
And I think some of the guys I was racing against
had figured that out and went to the nine to one.
But that's racing.
It's cheating.
Well, you've got to push the rules.
It's interpretation of a set of regulations.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
You've got to cheat enough so that you can beat the people that really are cheating.
Yeah.
I think there it is.
That life lessons from racing.
That's a license plate frame, tombstone, wear a t-shirt,
anywhere you want to put it.
Tombstone, you're a good place for that one.
But you've raced the thirties.
You've raced.
I mean, I'm bringing this up because you're a racer of the people's cars.
Right?
I know.
You're not driving weird, limon prototype things that, you know, typically.
And then we can put you in a thousand horsepower or whatever.
Fuck, we can find and you're happy.
Like there is no thing is too much power.
No thing is too much power.
But there is a thing is too little grip.
Too little power?
What about too little power in your golf?
Actually, there's a strange thing that happens in track cars.
When you have a lot of power, they're actually in many ways easier to drive.
Yes.
Because you have to slow down more in the corner if you're driving it properly to straighten up the exit.
That's how I set the lap record at Laguna in the Santa, the McLaren Santa at the time.
The one I drove, the press car was so twitchy, loose.
I couldn't carry speed through the corner.
So I just calmed it down.
I said, all right, this thing is incredibly powerful.
Just stop, turn, drag race.
And it took a second and a half off my time.
Oh my god.
Laguna, second.
That's huge.
That's huge.
Yeah.
And the small cars on the other hand are utterly the opposite.
Oh, I'm forgiving.
Or not a lot.
Small.
Low power.
Low power than Miata is the best example, especially the one six.
And you don't want to slow down.
So go down the straights.
It's not exciting from a power standpoint.
But as you come to the corner, you go deeper, deeper, deeper.
And you slow down as little as possible.
And you go through the corner on the bloody ragged edge.
Like, I made it.
And in many ways, it's a bigger thrill than a powerful car is.
That's why I suspect Miata Racing is so competitive because the cars are so unforgiving.
You spend the lap trying, getting back the speed that you lost because you made one mistake.
Or a car get it back there.
Yeah.
Once it's gone, it's gone.
You do.
And I have data to prove it.
That's impossible.
I am so fascinated by it.
So M3 icons.
We had to go out and M3 and M4.
One was a manual and one was an automatic.
And the automatic, I think, was the M3 comp.
And there's that thunder hill, two mile thunder hill.
Yes.
Wouldn't give you a downshift when you're coming in the hairpin on the back side of the track.
And I love when Randy, we don't usually put it in the episodes.
But he curses or gets frustrated at the car.
So you turn in and you can actually on camera.
You can see your foot go down, like your knee go down.
And then you smack it again down on the ground.
And you go, you bitch.
Like this.
And the other one from that one was the E30.
Yeah, he's got a little bit of a cough.
So if we're both sick, you know where it came from next week.
The other one was with E30 when you hit the first curve and you see the shock.
I have the video of him.
I'll have to dig this up going holy shit.
You're voice saying that is the funniest thing I've ever heard.
Anyway, I said that.
You said that out loud.
Again, we didn't put it in the final video.
But like it was you hit a hard hit, right?
You hit a curb and the shock was fucked and it was seized and we didn't know.
But the you bitch was really funny in the M3.
Because let's also explain when we send Randy out for a fast lap.
The car driver does lightning lap.
They spend two full days driving these cars around.
And every editor gets in every car.
And they just pick the fastest lap that anyone has ever done.
Well, the tires are done multiple times over.
So that's not really representative of what the car can do.
We say Randy go out and Randy does one sort of not even a full lap.
Five eighths of a lap.
Sometimes we'll warm it up.
If it's, you know, the morning you'll say, hey, pull three pounds out of that tire and make some microdustments.
But he goes out and does seven eighths of a lap.
And you start to ramp it up at the end.
You should be telling this.
But you can tell the technique, but you get typically at the most three hot laps.
So it's out one, two, maybe a third.
Sometimes we don't even let you do that.
And then you come in and we're done.
And those three are within a couple hundreds of each other.
There's no, you're never more than two tenths.
And if you are, it's a degradation from the tires.
And we can see it in the data.
The BMW, this was your second lap.
And you were, and second time it did it to you and denied this downshift coming out of the corner.
And you exclaimed, you bitch.
And you caught yourself by the end of the next corner.
And how you caught yourself, which we can see on the trace, was there's.
So it's this left that has then a sort of jump over like not really jump with the car gets light.
And you fucking flung it sideways, like up over the crest, landed a bit sideways.
And you came in really hot under breaking and sort of flicked it a bit sideways and drifted the whole next corner.
And by the end of that corner, you had caught your previous trace to within I think three thousands of us actually,
basically one frame away from where you previous were.
And then you slow the pace right back down to where you were.
So I know you're not actually at 10.00 tenths.
You must be at nine point.
If I could ever catch myself, then I was too slow in that area before.
That's a fail.
It's a fail.
Or I just assume it means you're just driving at 9.9 tenths or you're not wrecking the car.
A couple of the best laps I've ever turned were after somebody hit me.
And I'm trying to catch them to kill them.
I still remember this.
Really?
1987.
Okay.
I have a Toyota FX 16 Corolla.
I have a little deal with Toyota.
Thanks to Grassroots Motorsports Magazine, which used to be AutoX Magazine.
We go way back.
And I'm having a good race.
And I catch and pass a doctor and on to CRX.
And right after I pass him, he tries to get me back in the next corner.
Lesson to everybody out there in camera land.
You have to have some advantage to pass a car that's competitive with you.
You can't just pull out.
Let's make a call.
Oh, I'm going to outbreak this guy.
You don't have an advantage.
It's not going to work.
And it didn't.
I saw his tires lock up in my mirrors.
And he's on the inside?
He's sort of hit me in the back.
Knocked me off of turn one.
I'm wrong.
And he goes by and I come back on.
Kill that guy.
I drive what is pretty much one of the best slaps of my entire career.
And I'm embarrassed because I should drive on that level all the time in a race.
Yeah, but the car can't do it or you can't do it on a sustained basis or the risk is not.
I mean, I don't know.
No, no, no.
I did it all perfectly on a level of intensity that I don't always drive.
I hate to admit that.
And human.
And I'm real and that guy in.
And I'd already caught him.
Well, he knew it.
He knew it.
And on the front straightaway, he suddenly slowed down and pointed me by.
That's a hollow victory, though, isn't it?
Yes.
You want to fight to the dead.
To hit pit maneuvered him right into a wall.
Yeah, but failing.
I didn't want to hit him in the wall.
Just into the grass.
At the time I wanted to hit someone in the wall.
Here we go.
I was, I was racing an MR2 supercharged.
I run this story.
I really think.
And we're on a street course in West Palm Beach.
And my wife, Linda.
Her ex-wife, Linda.
Wonderful.
Love you, Linda.
She's driving and she's driving.
Third or fourth.
Overall, she's a good driver.
But there's an RX-7 catcher.
And I don't trust that guy.
And I almost got on the radio and said,
just let that guy buy.
Which she probably would have done anyway.
She was excellent racer.
But they go by.
He slowly reeled her in.
They go by in front of the pits.
And then I get cuss words all over the radio.
He had tried her somewhere that was not a good pass.
Hit her.
And she hit the wall hard.
Oh, shit.
But drove it in.
And now we attack it with hammers and crowbars.
It's straightness, MR2.
The whole front, the whole nose is like this.
But the radiator is intact.
Hoses everything.
And it's just-
It's allicized.
The whole car is italicized.
I like that.
I told you unnecessarily complex words.
What was the road rage?
Anyway.
We should show up and let him talk more.
No, no, no.
By all means, please finish your story.
I love this story.
And the object of all the crowbars and hammers
was for me to get back out, hunt that car down and kill it.
That was-
And so we got out there and I did.
And I caught the guy, but I caught him in a hairpin.
I really wanted to put him in the wall.
But there was a little bit of Sunday school
when I was a kid in Kumbaya.
And I'm like, I might actually hurt this person.
And that would have been okay.
But it was late enough in the race.
It probably wasn't the same driver.
Switch drivers in the whole three hour race.
Anyway, caught him in the hairpin.
Wacked him, spun him, but he didn't hit the wall.
Okay.
So we race, we go around, and the MR2, amazingly,
is still the fastest car on the track.
I had to pull, we would have won the race easily.
And I catch that car again.
And I'm not done.
I'm not done enough damage here.
And I'm going by it.
I mean, the guy right, my wife.
Yeah.
And we're going down this straightaway.
And it's mirrored, a mirror.
I got him pinched up against the wall.
And he slows down, and I slow down.
Oh, God.
Because I'm like, I'm going to kill you.
And then he tries to speed up.
Now, he just put himself right into my gun sites.
And I gun it and wham!
I hit him again.
And spun him, he didn't hit the wall.
And I'm just re-wrecking the front of the MR2.
But the darn thing, the radiator held.
It was the race, but we were like 99th.
And so that kind of anger doesn't show up very often.
But it did those two times.
That's a long time ago.
I mean, you know, if you haven't had 75 of those events since,
I think you're exonerated from like road rage.
What about on the road?
I used to road rage when I was younger.
And now, not so much, because it's dangerous.
The other person is probably worse.
And may have a gun in the glove box.
Yeah, he lives in a South.
I think I'm usually pretty good about not road raging,
but there was one time.
I had a Dotson 1600 Roadster that belonged to my buddy.
And I was hauling a set of racing slicks to somewhere.
And I had him tied on the back.
And the rear window was all fogged up.
He couldn't see through it.
And I had him next to me on a seat next to me.
And no passenger side mirror.
Only driver's side.
Remember, mirrors were optional in the 60s.
Yeah, but you have no visibility to the rear or to the side only to the left.
And I come up behind this, I think it was a new beetle.
I can't remember.
Maybe the new beetle didn't exist yet.
There's a car going slow in the left lane.
Now, okay, maybe I do road rage.
The car is going slow in the left lane.
And I'm behind him.
And I can't go around him on the right,
but I can't see anything.
And I don't know if anybody's over there.
And I road rage.
And what I ended up doing was passing him on the left two wheels in the grass.
You paid for that shoulder.
You paid for the payment with your taxes.
Yeah, well, the grass too.
The shoulder bouncing along the slicks bouncing on the back of the car.
Okay.
But then, Holden, whether this is just aggressive driving or road rage,
depends on what you did next.
Once you were in front, what happened?
I just went away.
Okay, that's not road rage.
That was just you were merely solving a problem by removing someone from your existence.
Yes.
Had you continued by getting right in front of them and then locking up all four wheels
and coming to a stop in the middle of the interstate?
Oh.
That would be road rage.
Never.
Not even a little bit of a...
No, I'm like it hit.
You have tires that were pushing the impact.
I don't want to open the door for somebody to hit me.
I think break checking is a really bad strategy.
I agree for life.
I agree.
You've got to put the hazards on and slow down gradually.
He's calming.
He's thoughtful.
He's thinking about this.
Yeah.
Other than those times.
Plus, we've talked about this, I think, on the podcast.
If you break check someone or if you attempt to just...
I love to flash break lights at people.
Just...
Left foot?
Yeah.
But I love to break always.
And I've had a couple times.
I think I mentioned one podcast.
I sent someone...
It was Galen Devagan was involved, right?
I was in G-Wagon.
And I sent a woman in a...
I think she was in a camera in Ohio on into low-earth orbit.
Because it...
It...
A-B...
It...
A-B-A-S break assistant.
Oh.
So it pulled the pedal right down to the floor and full A-B-S.
Oh.
Because what those Mercedesists...
What all the systems are looking for is...
A quick release of the gas followed by application of the break.
And I must have just pressed the pedal down enough
to that it saw a spike in...
I don't even know if it was looking for hydraulic pressure
or just break lights and it just...
And she just hit the brakes and turned the wheel and just...
And of course I had to get the fuck out of there because...
You don't want to be around a lunatic like that.
But it was horrifying.
And I did not mean to do that.
This is the problem with modern cars and the problem.
Then one of many problems with modern cars...
I could have just put the flashers on.
One of many problems with modern society is that safety...
Oftentimes now has become so safe that it's dangerous.
That is a perfect example.
How about warning lights?
Safety warning lights.
You come up on a police officer or emergency vehicles at night.
Those wailing lights...
There's now so bright.
Did he wheel and sponsor you?
I like the youth...
Not when I'm working on it.
He's a great guy.
He's never know.
Yeah.
I used to race with him.
Great guy.
But you know what I'm talking about.
Oh yeah.
They're so bright.
They're blinding.
Yeah.
Well you've got boots on the ground as we say.
And you can't see.
Right.
And if someone goes wrong they get really mad at you.
Right.
But you're blind.
How about...
Listen.
We're supposed to pull the comatose people out of their comatose state.
And so while it's good for them, it's not good for you.
Yes.
I mean you're actually paying attention.
The amount of people driving around with no headlights on at all is the real problem.
That's getting worse.
It is so bad at the moment.
So apparently in Canada the rule is that the instruments can't be illuminated if the lights
aren't on.
Yeah.
It's the way things were in 1974 and 1984 and 1964 and 1964 and 1964 and 1964.
Yeah.
So like brilliantly in Canada they figured out the instrument shouldn't be illuminated if
the lights aren't on.
But...
It was just in the Central Valley.
I was buying car parts at seven o'clock at night and sitting at an intersection.
Probably 10% of the car is driving through.
And they're all Nissan.
So I think this is part of the California that's not particularly wealthy.
And it's just a lot of Korean and Japanese sort of ship box imports.
And it was probably 10% of them had no lights on on the outside of their car whatsoever.
And it's just...
It tends to be just an Asian car thing.
Yeah.
Something about the way they designed the interface, this makes it possible to drive around inside
the car and not know the lights.
Where the German stuff will not fully eliminate the dashboard.
Ford's too.
So you'll see Ford's driving around with DRLs on and nothing else.
And what is the deal with people who drive around with their high beams on all the time?
That's the Civic.
What is it with that like 2007 generation Civic?
What the fuck?
Have you noticed this?
Yes.
And I know what has happened.
Again, headlights are now so bright that we don't flash anymore.
Yeah.
Because we assume even when a car is blinding us that it's just the low beams on a Ford pickup truck.
That's true.
Because they blind us.
Funny that you know that I always say the same thing.
Fucking Ford's.
It's always Ford's that have Ford pickups at the Tesla.
Tesla's are now out of control with the lights too.
The most modern cars are and they're so bright.
Again, they're blinding other cars that are coming at them.
And so people don't flash for high beams much.
People are on hair triggers in terms of Rage 2.
That's like how you get road raged into your grave if you flash someone.
I've definitely had people when I flash them to get like absolutely livid.
In the United States.
In the United States.
Correct.
Right.
And you're a bitch like you're in the way or.
I mean, you could also go lights off lights on lights off lights on.
Yes.
And that's the far less aggressive.
Yes.
I do that.
I never thought of that.
Yes.
I do that instead.
If someone has no lights on, I'll do that to them.
Except I won't do that in the eGolf because I have really expensive HIDs.
And I don't want to burn them.
I don't want to burn them.
I don't want to burn them.
You only get so many light-ups.
Yeah.
It's just really hard on the ballast.
Actually, I have attempted to wake up a person driving with their lights off.
Never succeeded.
Oh, I have.
And I've done flash on the on-off and the horn and the switch sign.
Game towards them.
Yes.
You do the same.
Yes.
I position myself so that like I'm coming towards them directly at them.
Yeah.
Flash them.
And then on-off, on-off, on-off, and then honk as you go by.
And then I will often see their lights go on in the mirror.
You could have saved some of life.
You saved the life.
I mean, all joking inside about this.
I am on a crusade.
If someone around me has no lights on, I will, I'm not going to say I would stop at nothing.
But I'll do everything in my power to get them to turn the lights on.
Because it's so scary.
When you see a dark colored car in pitch black darkness.
What if they're not coming at you and they're in the, like if they're in the number three lane
on the highway?
Honk.
Try anything to get their attention.
No lights in the world on the window.
You have no lights on.
Yes, I do.
And meanwhile, they're getting a suntan from there, from their gauges being there in the daytime setting.
Because they're in the daytime setting.
It's 90% of the cars on the road.
I'm going to say 90 to 95% are Korean and Japanese.
Of cars that are driving around the lights off.
Of cars that are driving around the lights off.
Yeah.
I have another theory too.
There's a lot of lights now are automatic in modern cars.
So people are expecting them.
I've done this.
Exactly.
Yeah.
They're not conditioned.
They're not expecting them to come on.
Well, the other thing you'll find is people who park, who valet park their cars.
Because they leave them in auto mode.
And the valets will always turn them to off because they have that delay feature.
And valets are always like, I don't want the lights to run out in the battery to die.
And so you'll see people pulling out of valet facilities.
One after the next, after the next was just URLs on.
Which means no lights, no parking lights or no lights on the rear of the sides.
But this is just, you know, it's a design flaw with, that's easily solved.
If the headlights aren't on, the gauges shall not be lit.
Well, with modern digital clusters, though, you end up with this situation where the gauges,
if they're not lit up, you can't see anything at any time.
Well, then they have to have automatic headlights that are not overrideable.
Like Tesla does, for example, like Tesla.
You can turn them off.
So you should put that car in drive if it's dark out there back on.
You have no way of chasing down pedestrians and dark alleys anymore.
I mean, long for the old days.
The good old days.
Is that Brooklyn?
I think it's Brooklyn that made you like this.
I declined to comment.
What you fucking talking about?
You know, I made fun of you for being Southern.
So I guess you can have to make fun of me for being Southern.
I kind of am Southern.
I moved down there when I was 14.
Yeah.
You're a Southern general.
I mean, I moved out of New York when I was 15.
So clearly the New York state.
Wow.
Imprinted early.
Well, they say that's when it really happens.
Yeah.
But I would call you a Southern gentleman.
I mean, you're well mannered.
You're soft-spoken.
You're light.
You're polite to people's faces.
Not in the race.
You hated me at first.
And I knew it.
I could see right through your little facade.
What?
Oh, yeah.
The Range Rover.
Well, you can be a personicity.
Personicity?
I gave you a can of spotted dick on that chute.
Which you made a joke about that was really funny.
I remember it had a refrigerated center console.
Yeah.
And I told them it's a British food product.
Yes, exactly.
And I stuffed it full of like ridiculously British things.
Like spotted dick.
I thought that was fantastic.
The problem was I was racing you and on big willow.
And do you remember this?
No.
I put you in the Range Rover sport.
Look at that face.
That face of a very instrumental.
And I was in an Alpha 4C.
And the reason we did this was because Range Rover's claimed
Nurburgring lap time was to the second identical to the Alpha 4C's.
And I thought, well, then fine.
No problem at all.
If I'm in the 4C, no, if I'm in the Range Rover,
I was in the Range Rover.
We should be within a second or two of each other.
We should be able to film together.
It's coming back to me.
And I stupidly didn't advise.
In advance.
I told you I would let you pass.
And then I didn't.
And I didn't tell Randy what was really going on,
which was that as soon as he did get ahead of me,
I was literally veering off the track as fast as I could
into the dirt to cut through the center of the track
because I'm an SUV.
Why am I on a track and an SUV?
It's stupid.
And we didn't tell him this.
And I saw the in-car footage of you in the 4C and you were
not amused at all.
No.
Unproductive people are dangerous.
Yes.
He is unpredictable.
He is out of control.
Meanwhile, it was all sort of planned in advance.
And this is our stupidity.
Anthony and I came up with this thing.
And instead of just telling you,
we wanted your reaction to be real and banned,
did we get it?
Because when you're doing film or video,
basically there's stunts.
Yeah, we're stunts.
And everybody's got to be really responsible and predictable.
And a lot of, you know, wannabes are not.
I've done actually a little bit of movie work
and seen some incredibly dangerous scary driving.
I mean, that's why you run a tight shoot on a tight ship
on your shoots and drives of like getting cars back
and so that their paths never intersect
and that nobody's turning until they visualize
what other cars are doing and, you know,
stuff's not happening at speed.
There's just a lot of good housekeeping to keep things.
We try.
I mean, I think we have a really good rapport
when we're doing the big.
So when we're in horse thief,
like a lot of the times when you're seeing drifts,
like tandem drift stuff,
we're on horse thief,
which is pretty treacherous
because there's a lot of big bumps in it
and they're a huge drop off.
So you go off and you're hurting the car.
And I'm always concerned that I'm going to fuck up
and you'll hit me because you don't typically fuck up.
You know, one of us spends
it's more likely to be me than you.
And you just know where to go
because you've just been there.
You're more likely to get the drift though.
And oftentimes I'm a little mad at myself
because I think I'm a little too careful.
But I like to run on zero defects.
I know you do too.
You never scratch your car.
No.
And we're close.
We close over all these years.
Very close.
Knock on wood.
It's been, I mean, no, we've never...
Crinkled metal once.
I was trying not to bring that up.
I don't mind.
I've talked about GT350 and that car was...
But hold on.
You thought I was absolutely at fault there.
And then I spun it again the next day
when you were chasing me in the Dodge Charger Cop Car.
When you said, I'm going to be three inches off your bumper
do not spin.
And I thought, no problem at all.
It spun it right off the track.
Rip two tires off the wheels if you remember correctly.
Because we didn't have enough air on the tires.
And then we did another GT350 two years later.
And how many times did you spin it at Big Willow?
I don't remember anything about that.
17 spins.
What?
I did not.
I did not.
And I finally called Anthony and I'm like,
we're done.
Shut it down.
No more.
This was...
Yeah.
The car was uncorrectable.
So you'd get into a slide and when the car snapped back
and you couldn't get it to step back slowly,
it would always want to snap back,
the steering would lock.
And it was a combination of either front suspension geometry
and or an e-pass electric power systems motor
that's just not up to the task.
Not strong enough.
That is one of the great hidden secrets of production cars.
In fact, some of the engineers that build them
don't even know this.
That they cannot turn the wheels quickly.
Yeah.
When you're driving right, when you're driving fast,
the hands should be slow.
To the hands, right.
Yeah, like this.
But when something goes wrong and you need to catch a slide,
your hands need to be fast.
You catch it.
And that's only half the story.
It's now going to hook up and you got to straighten it back out again.
And that was where the electric power steering testless
and the sport mode.
I don't know if there's still this way up that they are.
You can turn, you can correct,
but when you try to go back against that,
the loads are too high and the electric motor can't keep up
and the steering stops.
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And that's how I crashed the Model 3 at Pike's Peak.
The car had been handling so well,
I turned up to sport so I'd get some feel.
Because in comfort, it is very, very light.
But in comfort, it's strong enough to do a super-quick steering correction.
In sport, it is not.
And I hit this giant, giant, longest bump.
And the car leaped sideways, and I corrected it,
but I couldn't bring the steering back.
I honestly can't imagine.
Like, I think, how the fuck did Randy crash the car
and then you watch the video, and you can see it?
You were in, and then you just didn't correct back the other way.
And that's, I know you.
Not fast enough.
Not fast enough.
Yeah.
I wanted to go this way,
and then I ended up going that way.
Which was right off, off.
Yeah.
All part of the adventure, though.
This is, again, modern cars every so often.
Yeah, but old cars are coming.
Old cars run out of hydroboost, too.
Yeah, right.
That was, I used to auto-cross.
And normally you would, I guess you would accommodate for that in some fashion
if you're going to be regularly using the car.
That's your own for that purpose.
Well, I think the other biggest difference is you had a far lighter weight
and skinny tire.
So even if you end slower steering ratio with a bigger steering wheel.
So it's just the recipe for, you have more leverage.
Right.
So, I mean, my, God, one of my cars runs out of boost.
I don't even know, but you feel it.
It starts to get heavier and heavier.
No, you can pull right through it, but they're 2,500 pound cars.
80's Toyota's do that.
Absolutely.
I don't think BMW's do.
No.
Nor Porsche's.
Well, the thing, so BMW has, so annoyingly,
the cars that have the best steering feel with electric power steering
also have this problem, the worst.
And the reason why is because the smaller the motor, the more feel that comes through,
but then the more likely you are to run out of assistance.
BMW has a standard of how many degrees per second
anyone needs to be able to turn their steering wheel while parked.
So when you're stopped, that friction of turning the wheels is the greatest it will ever be.
And so they have, they will bring in secretaries and assistance and young kids
and anyone else, anyone to try it.
And they have to be alarmed people.
Small-armed people.
And they need to be able to turn, I think it's 720 degrees in XM or whatever it is in whatever time.
And if you can't do that, the steering motor or the hydro assistance isn't strong enough.
But that's the reason why they have terrible steering feel, especially early,
like F30 generation.
Oh, yeah.
Because there are these huge massive motors on them to make this test work.
You go to do it on a Mustang.
You go to like a Shelby GT350 with a big meaty front, the 305's on the front.
With our arc arms.
You can turn the wheel this fast.
That's it.
That's it.
That's why we had our incidences is is.
It was adjustable though.
It was better in comfort.
It was better in comfort.
The Mustang was too.
Maxed out the motor at some point and just couldn't.
Yeah, but you have to deliberately do that.
Because we have everything else in sport or race or something.
And that's work.
I was noticing on the Tesla where I got in trouble.
You had to put it in track mode, then you have to go over to steering
and move that over to comfort.
Kind of a pain in the butt.
Yeah.
Car was handling great until it had a big enough bump.
That launched in there.
Yeah.
Crazy.
All right.
So filming, what's your favorite part of it and what's your least favorite part of it?
My favorite part is when we when we become a Hollywood.
When you and I do when called a dialogue, I love the stand up dialogue stuff.
Yeah, I love getting to be like a movie actor.
I really do.
And I love the driving.
And I'm just totally addicted to whatever those juices are that flow when I start working hard enough.
And I can feel it.
And so I get that opportunity when we get to hot lap, which I really, really like.
It's my favorite parts.
And getting to meet all the cars and get experience in them.
Sometimes you meet ones that are really great.
But oftentimes not.
I mean, modern cars at the limit are all pretty good.
Right?
Yes.
Anything that you've we've done the last couple of years that surprised you badly.
Well, yeah.
Well, what's going on and something I've learned from this magazine work we've done is
that handling on the sporty models more so usually comes down to one human being
who determines whether or not this is okay.
It's still a human feel.
I think it's not easy to get those numbers out of a computer.
Whatever that seat of the pants feel is.
Well, some humans like twitchy oversteering cars, especially British.
Just to say what McLaren what?
McLaren Lotus Jaguar.
Tennis for being twitchy, especially more like 10 years ago.
Like the F type R.
Yeah, fair, fair point.
And the big sedan, I don't have those memorized very well XJ.
I mean, I was dangerously twitchy.
Really?
With the controls off.
Yeah.
And which leads me to another story which is kind of fun about the C8 Corvette.
I drove it at a press day when it was new.
And mid-engine is new to this generation of GM engineers.
And I found that entering a corner fast, it had trailing throttle oversteer.
It would snap sideways.
They have a track alignment that a lot of our listeners probably know about for the C8s.
It's like 3.5 degrees of negative camber in the front.
But stock is like 0 or 1.
And no big adjustment in the rear to cognitive.
No, in the rear as well.
Not as radical, but yeah.
Well, I have a theory that what they have done is they recognize the instability of the trailing throttle oversteer.
And they're fixing it with understeer.
And basically the spring's bar is alignment.
The alignment has a big effect on turning.
But that's not what the real answer is.
And I'm hesitant to say what the real answer is because I have this concept in my brain of getting rich by making a device that will fix the Corvette handling toward the C8s.
So I got out and I talked to the highest muckney muck they had there of the Corvette guys.
I can't remember chief of engineering or what he was.
A great, great guy.
I love him.
I love an automotive engineer.
And I said, it's got trailing throttle oversteer because I've never heard that from one of our test drivers.
I said, get in.
And we're at VIR.
And oak tree at VIR is like a big 180.
It's really like two turns.
There's a fast 90 on the way in.
And you've got to slow down a lot to make the tight 90 on the way out.
It's a big decreasing radius maneuver.
And so I go in fast.
But with the stability off, completely off.
And I go in fast.
In the middle of the corner, I lift off for the second part.
The car snaps sideways and I'm like that.
Right there.
Trailing throttle oversteer.
And I don't remember the man's response.
He was kind.
Was he defecating at the time?
I don't think so.
It's not a real fast corner.
And I have a theory that those test drivers are driving with the stability on.
And so they're not encountering this at all.
Where they wanted it.
Where they wanted it, which I doubt.
But it was snapping because I like a car that we'll talk in.
It was a throttle oversteer.
Pretty snappy.
Let's admit engine.
And the front end, you know, is wanting to push.
So if you get a little push, you need to drop off the throttle.
Now you get better traction out of those turns.
Front tires.
And you'd even more turn than you want.
That's called a push loose.
A push loose.
A push loose.
If you create understeer by sliding the fronts, then you lift.
This is the old 911 thing defined.
If the fronts are sliding and you throw a bunch of weight on them by slowing down, now they get grip.
Now you've got a problem if you don't fix it.
And you know, if you're not a...
So your thing is this C8, but this is a full lift, or just breathing off the throttle.
Full lift.
Full lift.
Would you do that?
Aggressive driving.
Would you ever do full lift like that?
Yeah.
That's why I don't like twitchy cars, because I think one of my own personal...
The way I drive is go into the corner.
Hot.
Hot.
I know.
Well aware.
Still slowing down.
And so I'm keeping weight on the front of the car for a long time.
And the car has to be set up so that it won't oversteer in that condition.
You know how Porsche does it?
You might know about a Porsche diff, right?
Porsche diffs engage off throttle too.
The limited slip, not just on throttle.
You know, you think a limited slip is for reducing wheel spin under power.
But Porsche, because that engine outpacked somebody over there figured it out,
they engage it off throttle to induce understeer.
Yes.
When the rear wheels are trying to go the same speed, the car won't turn as well.
Right.
And it's beautiful.
And you tune car.
Tune a car that way.
And that's why I don't like carts.
Actually, I like carts.
But carts have a solid axle.
They don't have a differential.
So they don't turn very well unless you make them turn.
And I've had some miserable racing experiences when I was teamed with typically a kind of a young driver
who has done 10 years in carts.
Because when he goes to a real car, how does he set it up?
Like a cart.
Like a cart.
Like a cart.
He's been driving that have to be twitchy to get loose.
This defines Porsche Motorsport in the early 2000s.
If I go a little bit further, then I'll like Derek Talk.
No, please.
But you know that Porsche JT3 RS.1, if you remember that car.
It's a purple one.
9-1.1.
Yes.
Purple RS.
Everyone crashed.
Yes.
Twitchy lose.
It's got rear wheel steering.
They were over aggressive with that and just the whole setup.
And the funny thing is, and this makes me happy, even though it shouldn't,
the RS model, everything is better than a regular GT3.
It's slider.
The wheels are bigger.
It's got a little more power.
Just everything is better.
And guess what?
People don't go faster in the RS than a regular GT3.
My theory, because it twitchy lose.
Well, then the .2 comes out.
And my buddy at Porsche, who's a PR guy, Frank Wiesman.
Yeah, you know him.
Great guy.
Sets up our hot lap cars.
One of the advantages of Porsche is they go to that trouble to make sure their cars are going to run well.
Frank knows his business.
He says, we got a new guy as a chassis dynamics guy, like the lead guy.
And you're going to like him.
He likes cars like you do.
And then I drove the .2 GT3 RS and GT2 RS .2.
Beautifully balanced.
Beautifully balanced.
And then his name is Lars Kern.
And he became the hot lap guy at the ring at the Nürburgring.
Because you don't want a twitchy car at the Nürburgring.
You're in fifth gear at 140 miles an hour.
In the air.
Yes.
In the air.
The timer in my head is going off.
I've spoken way too long.
But I love that story.
You are here.
You are a guest you're supposed to be speaking.
I love that story.
In the 2000s, the 911s, the Porsche's.
I did a lot of Porsche stuff.
I had a Porsche contract.
Raised a lot of teams.
Then we did the magazine road tests and everything.
Guess what?
I like the normal Porsche better than I like the motorsport Porsche's.
Really?
You're not talking GT3.
You're talking the actual motorsport.
GT3 is true.
I always wanted to add front bar.
I would tell the owners.
Turn up the front or turn down the back or both.
Because they were too assy?
Yes.
As delivered.
But they had adjustable bars for that very reason.
Make it what you want.
But they're too assy.
And the...
Okay.
Where was I going with that?
Porsche says...
Yes.
One of my favorite cars was the 50th anniversary 911.
Which is is that 14?
Yes.
Not a motorsport car.
Beautifully balanced.
A good handling car practically drives itself.
If you're having to counter steer this thing all the time,
a lot of people think maybe that's more fun.
But it's not the fastest.
Because the friction circle is round.
You want to be right on that edge.
And every time you're moving the steering wheel,
you're going over, under, over, under.
When it's right, right on that edge.
So you have a scale from one to ten on the understeer.
The Rady Pope's understeer scale.
And I use this now too, because I think it's a great way.
I'm honored.
So describe that scale and describe what should be where.
Well, a car that handles properly has a little bit of understeer.
I'm going to call it a two.
A one or a two understeer for one reason.
So when you go in the corner hot, you don't oversteer.
You need to start with a little bit of understeer
so that when the weights on the nose, the car is still balanced.
And then when you go to power, most cars,
and especially good ones, even today, with all-wheel drive,
they send most of the power or all the power to the rear wheels.
So if you don't already have a little understeer,
you're going to have oversteered.
Now you add power to that.
The oversteer is going to be worse.
So give me an example of what a zero or one would feel like versus a ten.
A ten is terminal understeer.
A car that cannot do anything other than understeer is that.
Flat tire, oil on the track, 1960 Cadillac.
Are those road tests?
No, they're on the 60s.
The guy's name was Tom Kaufman.
I don't know, but I've seen him like Instagram knows that I'm going to go to hubcaps.
Hubcaps.
Yes, it's understeer.
They're like, well, they're headling on this car.
Oh, it's almost European and it's control.
I like that.
What are you doing?
Anyway, that's a ten.
That's a ten.
And what's a zero?
A zero is where the wheels straight when you turn around and then you're at zero.
It's the other way.
Yeah, and I know you like a car a little more loose than I do.
You certainly drive a car more loose than I do.
You have a very interesting experience of seeing me at Sonoma in Beatrice with the rear bar disconnected.
So this is my E30.
It was not my track day.
It was there for a friend.
I was not going to screw it up by wrecking this car.
So I was going to be super conservative.
I didn't want anything to break and whatever.
But we went out and you were very disappointed in me.
Well, it's unlike Jason could drive.
I mean, he used to be pretty, pretty darn good.
And you were just, you just kept yelling.
You're like, I've seen you on track.
I know what you can do because you've been on track while we're racing, right?
So we'll be on track while we're racing, right?
You never passed me.
Don't be ridiculous.
On lemons?
You've never passed me.
On on track, driving lemons?
I don't think so.
Not in that car.
Well, that's because you're going to drive one of Bill Arnold's cars.
Exactly.
You're so darn fast.
You're lemon cars.
No, I have a brand new D3.
Maybe then.
But no, you knew that I was super aggressive and it's kind of at the ragged edge at all times
and just having the time of my life.
Yeah, I can feel that energy coming off the car.
You already said that.
Like, you could spot me from three corners away.
That's gotta be Jason.
Yes.
Yes.
But I, in Beatrice that day, I've never driven an E30 then.
I don't understand like that.
It was horrendous.
And I was not able to drive around that.
I couldn't do it.
And it was because you wanted me under breaking all the way to and past that apex.
And I just didn't trust that I was ever going to get this car stopped.
It just wouldn't turn.
And I thought, well, there goes my biggest unfuck this tool.
So if I'm coming into hot and I know I'm going to understand way past way offline and miss my apex.
Well, I'll just lift or drag from break and tuck and turn it into a slide.
And I have all this arsenal of tools that I use when we're filming to get the car where I need to get it.
Because obviously I'm not that good.
I come in too fast.
I come in too slow.
I do whatever.
It's a trick to get the car where you needed to be at the attitude and the angle you needed to do.
And that my primary trick, which was to throw the car further into the corner, was gone.
And I'd lost all confidence.
I couldn't do it.
It was wild.
It was wild to watch you drive that car afterwards.
Because you were like, oh, you're right.
It sucks.
You were able to be far more patient and trustworthy and get around it.
And then finalize it.
You have to just wait.
It sucked.
Yeah.
It's not fun.
It sucked.
But you get that level of understeer and you are out of tools.
You're just stuck.
You just got to slow down and wait on that front end.
Yeah.
No thanks.
But then for the last session, I put the bar back in.
And you're like, okay, I see what's going on.
And you just suck it driving around that much understeer.
But that I figured that was probably a 7-8, like it was just terrible.
I've driven race cars by very talented drivers who set them up.
That have two or three overseer.
Oh.
So at the apex, the car's already on the back wheel.
And I'm not on the power yet.
And I can't get on the power until it settles down enough that I can add another load to the back of the car.
Yeah.
And frustrating.
Lotus Exige V6 Cup.
That was probably a minus four on oversteer scale.
So like a minus four on understeer, which means it's like a plus four oversteer.
Yeah.
That car was uncontrollable.
I couldn't do it.
I had to slow so far down that I just know.
No thanks.
KTM Crossbow.
Really?
Super loose.
Are those adjustable?
And so you could hypothetically dial that out.
Yeah.
And the ones I drove, that had already been done.
No.
For a press day.
Here's a question for you.
But they were still loose.
The guys were like, well, you should have tried them before when you're just in it.
Ariel Adam.
Also.
Brits love their loose cars.
I love, give me like a, you know, an acid.
The bridge love oversteer.
I'm fine.
It's because it's greasy and mossy all the time.
Yeah.
I mean, it's mossy.
That was my, the line in my V12 Vantage S7 speed manual video.
It was like, you know, it's mossy and slippy all, all year round.
Everything's molded and just slide around the mold.
Talk a career GT.
Oh.
You've experienced these.
What about you?
Beautiful car.
Probably one of the best, most exciting street engines ever.
Really, really good shifter.
Shifter knob is one of the most beautiful ones I've ever seen.
And you know, definitely take a look at the shift knob and a career GT.
Because you could get it with carbon as well.
Yes.
And I was around when that came out.
They come out in the mid four or four.
So I still had a very close relationship with Porsche at the time.
And I had a friend who bought one.
And he was very generous.
And he let his friends drive it.
And the first day at VIR in the career GT, it's beautiful.
And I had ridden with this guy.
He used to have a 911 turbo that was one of the best,
it was definitely the best handling 996 turbo I'd ever driven.
I don't know what the secret was.
He even talked to his engineer to try to find out.
And I'd ridden with him and he drove well.
It's beautiful.
I rode with him in the career GT and I'm like, man.
What's the matter?
Jim, what's the matter with you?
I thought you could drive.
I don't think I said that to him.
And then he says, hey, my buddy wants to drive this car.
Would you ride with him, please?
I'm not like, sure.
You bet.
And his buddy was an SCCA racer, spec racer, wins, spec races.
Pretty good.
Driver.
I didn't know him.
We go out in the career GT and it does not feel good
from the passenger seat.
It's not carving corners.
It's left, right, left, right, left, right.
And we get out on a straightaway at VIR.
There's a long back straightaway.
And the driver was not afraid of the gas pedal.
And I'm watching a speedometer.
Cars like that are so fast.
Those analog speedometers are really moving.
And it's just like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm watching it swing past 150 near the end of the straight.
And the driver's scared, even though he's on the floor.
And he's holding out wheels so tight.
And career GTs have very, very little steering play.
Not zero.
And super quick steering response up front.
And the car's changing lanes.
And I'm watching the speedometer crossing 150.
And we're going from like center track all the way to the edge of the grass and back.
And I'm thinking, if we drop a wheel in that grass over,
we're going a long, long, long way.
And we survived.
And I'm like, easy there, brother, easy.
We survived.
And I went over to Jim, like the gym.
Do not let your friends drive this car.
And it was super reactive steering, high power.
And I think maybe they tried to compensate for the super reactive steering
by making the car understeer more to try to get some stability.
But it was not a predictable car at the limit.
It was good up to about 80, 85%.
But near the limit, very, very difficult car to drive.
So this is one that I'm still trying to figure out.
Because I was doing a spotlight video back in the day,
which was the predecessor revelations on CGT.
And I called you and asked you this.
And I think the word you used to describe it's limit handling was diabolical.
And I thought, oh, not good.
And then I talked to Larry, who I work for, my boss.
And he was like, no, I drove him back in the period.
And they were totally right.
They were totally fine.
But you had said, didn't you spin one at Laguna or came close to speed?
One, you drove one that was...
I spun Jim's car at Daytona.
And when the impression I have with my memory here
is when it was backwards, the brakes didn't work.
The ABS was giving me no brakes.
So it was rolling backwards with me on the brakes.
It was rolling.
And I see the tire wall come by.
I miss the end of the tire wall.
And I didn't hit anything.
That was just a gift from the track gods.
Sometimes they gift us.
Sometimes they don't.
And that's also what happened the very next day at VIR on that first weekend.
Maybe I shouldn't name too many names here.
But the car ended up going backwards into a tire wall.
Really?
And wasn't bad damage.
But a bumper cover was $25,000 in 2004, if you can get it.
And that was why.
I mean, I understood.
It wasn't bad driving.
The car was back car.
But the same engineer that set up that 911 turbo,
they went to great lengths to improve that car.
Track tires helped.
The sticky tires helped.
They changed the wheels to be able to run those.
And it was better.
So if I asked you to set a hot lap in one at like big willow?
No, thanks.
Really?
Big willow, that bumpy turn nine.
What were they?
600 horse, I think?
Yeah.
That's the first time I've ever heard you say no.
I wonder if there's variability car to car.
I mean, or where they're just people are not driving fast enough to know
that Randy knows.
Larry slid his around all the time.
I mean, just slid it around for photos and we have them.
And he said, yeah, I'm smiling.
Never spun it.
It was just a pussycat.
And then I have a video of some Formula One driver's son,
who was driving one for a German review back in the day,
up some Alpine pass, and just drifting it around the whole.
Like it was a front engine rear drive.
You like it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The GT career is not just a strong and strong two-seat car.
It's connected.
It's the combination of driving, sound and brachiala acceleration.
This car is letting us back to the small, empty spaces.
Who's wild in either idiosphere?
Who's wild in either idiosphere?
Who's wild in either idiosphere?
Who's wild in either idiosphere?
Who's wild in either idiosphere?
wild and I thought I just can't figure this one out but I've not I've set the only one that you've
driven in that way like have other if you do if you've driven other CGT's as I recall comments
from colleagues racers who did like press days for Portia in those cars had similar comments
to me I drove one more recently belongs to a friend of mine in Atlanta I was going to give them a
little pitch but I can't oh merit partners is that legal and Jonathan owns one and I took him
out in it I'm driving he rides and he got out and he says go ahead and do some more laps I said
seriously this is only a couple years ago you know a career GT's are worth three times what
they were when they were new now and I said you well you want to come along he says no I've had
enough but I I drove it 89% is the value of it and the respect I have for the guy to let me drive
it and my former experience and and maybe I should bring up Paul Walker we know got killed in one
as a passenger right I want to point out not the driver Paul was very responsible driver he loved
going fast but he was very responsible I worked with him on two fast two furious you you were his
coach right driver coach well driving instruction for the whole movie so I worked for Tirees Gibson
and Devon Aoki the stars of that movie cool that was a lot of fun but the
uh they talk a lot about the old tires on the car GT that wrecked with Paul in it and and uh
I really think that the car was just kind of twitchy and they were probably driving way too fast
on the street and lost it was your experience I know 89% in more recent times when you were
lapping yeah it was nice it was nice and I didn't want to push when we were at road Atlanta too
yes which is a really fast track yeah you don't have like small problems at road Atlanta it's usually
big you all right one final question uh you have unlimited funds unlimited choice you have one
track car and that's the only car you're tracking for fun forever what is it I think it would be a
chiseta v16 team we haven't even talked about what's in the background everyone just ignore that
it just happens to be here I mean it's just it's sitting right there with words and
yes oh okay wait a minute uh okay wow people ask me questions like that a lot bitch of a question
is it yeah and uh usually one car pops in my mind right away and it's totally trite and pisses me
off because I want to have some sort of exotic car that nobody knows about that's I have this inside
secret and my recent favorite track car is a poor show I knew GT2 RS 2 really who when I drive
when I drive a two yes drive a two get out of it and get in a three I'm like where's the main
tour where's the beef you know I don't get Derek you ever hear that clear a pal that's
clear a pal Wendy's what's the name of that's the name of the actors yeah but you know a lot
about the old days he was there like jaguars in the other 20s in 1927 yeah and so that car is
just so beautifully balanced do not modify it I want to encourage all our listeners to not modify
GT2 well I haven't had to change my plan to drive it you know I've always to track alignment yes
but otherwise nothing ever the the first mod everyone always forgets to do is the driver mod
they forget to go get trained and to figure out how to drive these things and so you go to a
track day and you're in an E30 or a golf or whatever and you're you know or meada and you're faster than
all the guys in the GT3s and GT2s it's just an embarrassment for you know I can't imagine being
an engineer who's set up that car and then go to a track day and watch somebody to stock
ND2 meada like up the ass of a GT2 RS but what happens what at least they're out there trying oh my
God Mr. Brightside yes fine sure we didn't even talk about any of Randy's personal cars I'll go for
it my personal cars are embarrassingly humble I have some I said you like shit boxes I have some
yeah I do well I like expensive fantastic cars I just can't afford them because I've never been
that good at making money like I'm that's why I was in a little cars for a long time I raced in
the firestone firehawk series thank you TC client racing for starting my career and people are
like oh well you know you had to develop I'm going now now I just you need to get on the phone
call people and chase rides and I didn't do much of that and so it was a long time before I got
into the big cars where was I going with that daily your your your cars daily in your cars my
cars I well here's the cool thing I have more race cars than I do street cars that tracks
they're humble literally they're humble I have my very first race car that VW Golf that I I
wanted to Saint Petersburg Grand Prix with it then I lost because I tangled with a guy and it
penalized me and I got home and my brother had recorded it on his VCR video cassette recorder okay
my brother was very techie in 1985 and I watched the video it was on the evening news he just happened
to see it I mean we didn't have video in cars back then and I go that's exactly what happened I'm
right next to that guy you drove right at me and so three months later I won the race again oh nice
in that car I own that car still I bought it back 25 years ago and it's being restored
in Denver the VW Golf not a GTI not that fancy GTI but it's going to have a it's got a lot of
upgrades so you know once you work on your VW track car doesn't matter if it's a GTI
Golf anymore really I have a I have a really nice 77 smoky and the bandit trans amp yes you do
that my friend Nathan Hammer all built in his garage and it's not a race car yet but we just
put an acu something a better oil cooler on it and so it's going to be track well you do that
because you pop the motor right it was that what happened didn't I know but we damaged it because
even with a good oil pan we found that it would starve in corners and Nate was with me and we
watched it get in the corner and the oil pressure goes boom he's like and and we hadn't heard it
or anything it was only momentary and I was sensible until a week later when I'm at Sonoma and it's
a private track day and the drummer from the rock group primus you know primus I don't
like it why I know and I had a big brown beaver you just play it with it every day
nope I'm not making this up I'm not white enough for this I think yeah that's hilarious
primus the drummer was going to set up his kit and turn seven and have a bunch of the guys drive
around him in race cars while he's playing and you don't get to hear a drummer play all by
themselves very often this guy was amazing such a pleasure so I go out there they invite me I have
my trans ham there I driven it there because it lives in California or it did and so I'm like okay
cool so I'm out there and we're driving around a pretty low speed while the drummer's drumming and
I think to myself wouldn't it be cool if I drift by the camera obviously completely forgetting
that I lose oil pressure in the corner and two or three days later Nate the cars at Nate's house
and he's going why do we have three pounds of oil pressure at idle now when we used to have 28
and I'm going I had a gauge and now I've heard it and Nate took the engine out and
we didn't blow anything but we damaged a bunch of bearings because this thing is still a Pontiac
and the Pontiac heads do not drain well and there are not many people that know about Pontiacs and
lateral g's anymore that's the problem it's not as some issue as it's an oil collecting at the
top of the head yes it won't drain back down so the oil comes to that and now the pan is empty or low
and it stars and so we put in better drainbacks tested it again it still didn't fix it was better
and that's why we have the acu something now that pumps oil in if it gets low
and that was all done at ride tech because ride tech put a whole new suspension on the car
no more rear leaf springs wow it's a four-link with the triple adjustable shocks
independent rear suspension and he says he's not good at making money clearly you're
spending the coin on your exam one of my best friends Peter Schwartzot who's a clever art professor
racing teammate of mine my co-driver for many of those wins with TC Klein racing he's now 84
years old and doing well Peter says to me he goes Randy I found something that I'm really good at
and I'm like well what what Peter he says buying things to be peg bunny kind of attitude
I'm going to spend you okay you know that there's a there's some guy on the internet who does
reels have you ever seen the one about project cars anonymous no I have seen this he's he's dressed
up like a teacher with with with glasses and pocket protector and everything and he goes welcome
everyone to another meeting of project cars anonymous let's start with the project cars anonymous
prayer and it's something like the the serenity prayer lord give me the the knowledge to know
what I can fix and what I can't fix and the wisdom to be able to tell the difference something
along those lines great and it's perfect look it up okay it's a real project cars anonymous to
your card carrying member of a yes he says we're going to go between perception and reality let's
discuss this perception five thousand dollars three months for this project car chat what was the
reality of your project car six years oh and the whole class goes oh six years and and what was
the cost on that seventy thousand dollars oh no class goes I unlike uh yeah guilty we're not
I don't think we're quite the 70 yet but we're well over 40 for a car I paid 12 for and it's a nice
car though it might be worth 30 well hey you're you're you're getting most of your money back which
wouldn't have been the case if you would have bought instead a brand new corolla or forty thousand
dollars of drugs or anything else that doesn't have a reason to make money on that you can make
money I don't know how this works by the way how do you afford a myura it's not mine
what I said it really badly didn't I my you're a my you're a high on day that's not the language say
Hyundai no my dad bought it ages ago for fifteen thousand dollars when it wasn't worth anything
I'll give you seventeen oh interesting I'll give that some thought yeah I'll see if you
dad'll take that you drive it like it's yours yes that's true everybody noticed you leaving
the line in the uh VW van show that we did what you're leaving the line oh the drag race and the drag
race and the really wise ones were like I can tell he's taking care of the transmission and clutch
in that mirror so there was one asshole who made a comment like well he you know why why did he
launch it so soft like because the clutch costs more than your house asshole if you can get one
and that and everything else is it shared with anything else that clutch I mean it's probably
built to spec now by the people who restore them who are like it needs to do this and then
you just have one may have one may do craziness craziness all right you have a Volvo station wagon
the seven four and you have the flying mousse shirt on right now so this is your I do I'm proud of
this is is my race car I um budget wise I kind of fit with budget endurance racing and I bought
this Volvo seven forty turbos sedan I wish it was a wagon but it was a turbos with a stick
and I wanted to go like the five hundred dollar racing with it like the lucky dog racing league
or the lemons racing and champ car and it had to be of all though because I had a Volvo factory
contract at the time and you always talk about me being proper right I didn't know that was the
reason for that why it was a Volvo wow and I always like rear drive Volvo's because they steer
well they stop well they're they're unpretentious they're kind of sleepers so yeah I have a Volvo wagon
also that's a real hot rod I'm really proud of that it's a 16 valve turbo Volvo and they never
made them in this country you get the manifold from Italy where they had like a two liter
is that the Zorro twin cam where the cam is off to the side of the head it's a single cam right
no it's a twin cam yeah Volvo made some I thought Volvo did when Volvo went there for 16 valves they
sort of kept the central location of the one cam shaft and then added another one off to the side
so it's got a bulge at the top of that it looks pretty normal to me I maybe think it's
yeah I remember the old Opel 1900 had the cam on the side with really short push rods you're
kidding that was an unusually too it's like the two liter BMW in line six that was the Bristol
engine it's like that too oh the Bristol yes now we're speaking my language so Randy has
Volvo station wagon a turbo brick with a manual two volvos and it's currently a twin engine
because I was on my way to pick it up in North Carolina and my buddy sent me a Facebook ad
for a Volvo engine and transmission the five the real five speed which was only made like two
years in this country and the real five speed as opposed to the electric switch for many many
years they were a four speed with your electric overdrive on top of the end and yeah and then the
good five speed was only in Europe and I've got a friend there I've never met who has packaged
up about six of them over the years and we've been using that in the Volvo and anyway so I've
had those two boxy volvos I have a seven forty turbos right yes but the ones as a real hot rod
and it's bought not bill by the way I don't get credit for it but the guy who painted my bumper says
he's pretty darn sure it's original paint and it looks good it's a nice car no cracks in the dash
it's it's it's cool clutch has been slipping ever since I bought it so someday I'm I need to fix that
I guess you don't drive it all that much if it's been so three years okay well so I'm sure it
with haggity and I'm not even lying I probably don't put I probably don't put 50 a hundred miles a year
on that car until I went to get the bumper painted that was a longer trip because 2700 miles away
no my 500 miles was all in two days okay but I picked up the engine I I went there I wanted it
so bad I went to the guys place and he was super cool guy that used to race motorcycles and he
was putting an LS in his 240 wagon and the 240 is the more cool one it's more popular I prefer
the 740 strongly I'm a 740 guy for sure oh man my brother I got a brother right here
and so I the guy bought it from when I was leaving he's like man we're twins sounds from a different
mother but we're not we like the twins in the movie where one guy gets all the good genes and the
other guy gets the bad genes standing to veto and all that poor guys including you got the good
yeah he was amazing but he had the lift set up just right so we get the engine and transmission
into the back of the Volvo wagon and and it's it's sitting upright I stuck some wood blocks in there
so now I have Volvo under glass when you look through the back window see it yeah it's and it
looks good because this guy everything he had was really nice so you don't even have to open the hood
when you go to a car show with that car yeah it's on the clutch and Volvo but only once hooked up
you could fix that that was fun wait a minute what else do I have I have a lemons firebird and
that my friend Nathan Amarall who built my smokey and the randit firebird we caught he put
together an engine for that car and then a guy named Mark not only that there's a video guy that
I worked with a little bit on some wheel videos he rebuilt the tranny for me so I got an engine
tranny and I got a really kind of ragged out firebird that hasn't run in 13 years and so
that's waiting I have a 740 wagon that I shouldn't have bought that I just bought it was stupid
and I got home I'm like why I don't need it's dead I've got a Toyota Tundra pickup truck for
my tovia cool okay fantastic truck and okay I got a car somewhere that you have a Volkswagen
or something I got a car man yeah I hope that my friend who has that car in his shop in coming
Georgia in the Atlanta area will get it done please it's been there three or four years
you know I brought him a car I brought him a used engine I said just you know make sure the
engine is going to be okay bolted in there and let's go three years later three and a half
one two years you wrench you wrench on cars I've done yeah but I'm like here I'm not home it's true
and when I'm home it's it's this trash you know how that is to try to keep whatever fires are burning
down you can't it's too soon after I know you're right that's not a good image right now
but what am I forgetting oh Tesla that's right you daily I bought a an old Tesla and this
thing's cool because it's serial number is like oh oh oh oh oh 1222 wow so it's not like
number twelve hundred ever built yeah and it is still it works how many miles on it 156,000 wow
it got a battery and a drive unit before I got it that's a rear drive and I wanted it because
especially I guess it's been two or three years ago electric cars are so common I wanted to
learn about the electric car experience you like your e-golf so much even though it only goes
80 miles what a Tesla country is that no it was averaging 140 before I ruined it with wheels and
tires and oh amps and subs and I thought wait a minute so my first one was rated 83 miles
thank you was rated 125 okay so I'm not pretty mile car average 97 the 125 car average 140
and what is it average now eight hundred and six hundred and six it's really hard for me to
imagine you getting good electric fuel mileage I did on until I put the big sticky tires on it
and then I just started going I just started driving like I drive everything else but actually I
get I'm the my driving style is actually conducive to really good fuel economy like you know
the truck slowed down well exactly it's already 20 fuel 2026 and so originally it was 2328 was
the shiroko's 1.8 liter you know EPA number that's since been revised down I think it's 2026 or
2025 I've averaged 29 miles per gallon that car over 27 years and that's with a two-liter and
cams and everything else so even though I drive like in a household you take that car on long trips I
do you have it on the long trips I average I mean I average 39.6 cross-country in the shiroko
and that's again a two-liter that I built so who knows what is going on inside that thing wow
yeah no it gets really good gas much wow I if something about my driving style it's because we
talked about how CIS Volkswagen's go super lean at high rpm there you go that's right we're just
discussing that and it's not using any fuel because he's always at high rpm that's not okay I put
a lot of crazy things here in it and I'm sure I'm forgetting some cars and most of these cars
are not home and they're just sprinkled everywhere Denver Indiana at Ride Tag coming Georgia
yeah so one of my great fears is that someday they they all come home yeah there's like
pan of them she's like you know he's like a southern mom it's like oh if all my kids come home
there's nowhere for them to stay I have 14 of them from 16 different dads and I mean the joke is
that I have to be biking distance yeah I used to be walking but I can't do that biking distance
from all my cars at all points like none of the cars can be far away from each other or I get I twitch
when I move to Atlanta I wanted to be biking distance from my nephew okay I think that's cool
you have the same analogy yeah biking I mean I can bike to here and I can bike to my my warehouse
from my house no problem super easy but I it's also partially out of necessity like oh shit
something broke all right I need a car get a bike and go get it yeah luckily it doesn't have
been too often but the bikes I have have motors engines yeah I can't do that you two have that in
common the most I have motorcycles yeah I always say we should do a bike engine episode but there's
just I don't hear I'll leave you guys can talk bikes no I think we're we're wrapping this episode
right we should have probably 45 minutes ago I know I'm I think I just make that worse for you guys no
it's good it's a pleasure to have you on the show finally thank you very much anytime you're in
the Bay Area I I would love for you to come on and talk more and we need to get you in Anthony
so you can really talk shit about me which is what I thought was going to happen I think I don't
think you can shout out about me why not I think it's funny yes I think I would be worthwhile the
audience would enjoy it you have seen me at every single one of my worst for the last 10 years filming
is stressful it is you know Jason you you can be a bitch I am but you are an amazing talent see how
saw there's so many ways compliment thank you I'm calling you a bitch was not a compliment that's
your new New Yorker thinking that that was a compliment it's not a compliment in the rest of the
country but okay do not give us your covid don't make me laugh but well thank you yeah just watch
the shows yeah and your revelations and icons I get to be on icons and drag race and they're
incredible you want to say for filming for revelations I mean cars are ready here that's sure
we can have the research and the car knowledge that you have where you get
beyond people so many times commentators even guys with lots of views they're they're kind of
funny but they say things like good this car is so good I'm not cotton candy I love
these fresh hatred of the word of the word should have good that's the best you can come off with good
yes exactly I'm angry Randy's my favorite person yes I'm kind of quite a greatest about that you
should be angry Derek is funny too you should angrily go and hit the stop button on the cameras
there's this fantastic book called how to win friends and influence people written a hundred
years ago by Dale Carnegie and in it one of the many things he says it is true and is that when
you're complimenting someone or something it has to be genuine or it won't work true I don't
ever give anyone compliments and you can feel that you do me that's why I do that's why we have
you run you're really fucking fun and I'm glad the audience got to experience real Randy we saw
road reggie Randy we saw quarter southern mother Randy I'm a Christian Randy you're halo flicker
there for a second okay please come back do this again thank you thanks for coming in thank you
Jason thank Derek see you at our pleasure at some point next week week after I don't know whatever all right
by who now the end is near and so I face the final curtain
and Doug here we have the limo emo in its natural habitat helping people customize their
core insurance and save hundreds with liberty mutual fascinating it's accompanied by his natural
ally Doug a limo is that guy with the binoculars watching us cut the camera they see us only pay for
what you need at liberty mutual calm liberty liberty liberty liberty savings very underwritten by
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