Rumors, Hot Takes and Facts | The AutoGuide Show Ep. 109

Welcome back to the AutoGuide show presented by eBay Motors.

We have a great episode for you this week.

In our new segment, hot takes, rumors and facts, we're going to talk about the news

of the week, including the Rivian R2 and news out of Rivian.

We'll also talk about the Toyota Highlander EV and the ever rising cost of buying a car.

Plus, the designer of the iPhone says touch screens and cars are bad.

He might be on to something.

Jamie Butters, the former editor of automotive news and a veteran automotive journalist,

joins me to break it all down.

Later on, Mike Schley joins me for his latest gear test, the Toyo Celcius II All Weather

tires.

In the AutoGuide garage, I recently tested the Ford Maverick Lobo and Mike sampled the

Kia EV4.

We'll close things out with the mailbag.

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OK, I'd like to welcome Jamie Butters, veteran automotive journalist of the Detroit Free Press

of automotive news and many other stops to the AutoGuide show.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

Hey, Greg.

Glad to do it.

All right.

So we're going to talk about a lot of different things going on this week.

And I think the best thing to maybe do is lead off with Rivian.

We've seen a lot about the R2.

I think is it a hot take to say that the R2 is just it has to be a must win for Rivian?

What do you think about Rivian?

No, I think that's the business.

That's they are pushing in all their chips.

This is a company as of the third quarter had about $4 billion and they're burning about $2

billion at a time.

The deal with Volkswagen is really a lifeline, you know, providing up to $6 billion total,

maybe even $2 billion this year, you know, which could really sustain things.

But this is the vehicle.

They're trying to run Tesla's playbook, you know, start at the high end with an expensive

vehicle that can absorb the cost of the battery and then try to get more efficient and then

offer larger volumes.

And and really, you know, this is the one where they've got to get their model three,

their model Y moment.

I think it's interesting, too, when you look at the company and like the amount of money they

have and then also like this isn't exactly like Scrooge McDuck with a money bin.

That's just like some of their rivals are.

Are you are you worried that they might, you know, maybe run out of money at some

point halfway down the road here?

Well, less so after the Volkswagen deal.

You know, but again, it's it's really hard to make cars.

It's hard to make a car company.

Manufacturing is really difficult as Mr. Musk learned and he nearly ran out of money twice.

You know, no one, as I always like to point out, you know, I was so skeptical of him

in the Tesla business because no one since Mr. Honda had created an automaker that survived

the recession, you know, and just it's so hard to do after Tesla.

A lot of people thought they could do it.

Some have some serious backing.

Lucid, of course, has the Saudi private investment fund as its main backer.

So, you know, potentially a lot of billions can be put into it.

Rivian has to stand on its own.

At first, it looked like it was, you know, really protected by Amazon or by Bezos.

That doesn't seem to be the case.

They're going to have to, you know, RJ Scorange and his team has to find a way to make it on their own.

And so if they can really make money, I don't know.

This R2 is supposed to start at 45.

We're going to learn about the options and the rest of the pricing maybe next month, I think mid month.

So, but if they can make this, if they can make a profit or even break even on a $45,000 car that

looks like that, you know, they deserve a seat at the table and not just as a software company.

Because that was what it was looking like.

Maybe they were just going to have to be a software tech provider to other automakers.

I went to an event last fall at their tech center in suburban Detroit and RJ Scorange was there.

And a lot of his, like his talking points were how almost excited they were to be

like a data company or a software development company.

But I think with the R2, they're starting to show kind of like the proof is in the pudding.

Like, hey, they still can make cars and is someone who's always interested in testing new vehicles.

I'm pretty optimistic about the R2.

The only bad thing I could say about their existing products is like the interiors are a little opaque.

You know, there's basically no knobs or buttons.

So I think it is a must win for them.

It's got to be a hit, but it also looks like it could be.

You know, so I think in that sense, they're on the right track.

And it also, you know, they put out, it was about a year or two ago, right around this time.

They showed all these new products that they wanted to do and they're still kind of out there.

And it reminded me a little bit of like, I don't know, I'm dating myself when Lotus

showed off like a million cars at the Paris Motor Show and almost none of them happened.

You know, so until we see some of these things on the road, including that kind of like

1980s off-road thing they showed, I'm still a little skeptical.

But I think overall the R2 does look pretty good.

They're certainly playing it up like last week in light of the earnings, which, you know,

they were in line with what was expected, but perhaps not great.

It kind of reminds me of like the early to middle days of Tesla when, you know,

the numbers, there was all this promise, but the numbers weren't quite there.

So a lot of challenges kind of, you know, for Rivian, I think.

Yeah. And they won't have the benefit that Tesla had in its early and middle days of being able

to sell EV credits to other automakers. You know, that market has really dried up,

which is unfortunate for these EV specialists.

But, you know, I know we're going to talk about affordability later, you know,

and I would anticipate that even if it starts at 45, probably most of the

R2s will transact at the more 55 to 65 price range.

But again, if they can hit large numbers, maybe they can drive down the price and offer more,

you know, it's a really nice looking car to be less than the average price of vehicle on the road

or being so average price of a vehicle being sold now.

Yeah, I think that's actually a great segue here. The average price of a new vehicle,

according to automotive news, was over 49. It was flirting at like 50 earlier this week.

We'll see where it lands when this podcast drops, but it's right in that range

at or near record levels. It's kind of a cool thing if you're like, you know,

bookmarking your tabs and you just want to see what the average price of a new car is,

like auto news has that for you. So, I mean, I'm curious, do you think like

people are getting priced out of cars? You know, we're seeing that it's gotten to the

point where like, I mean, it's mind blowing in some ways that, you know, halfway to 100,000

is the average price of a new car. So, and, you know, we started off with a hot take.

That's a fact is the average, you know, price right now. So,

where do you see pricing going the rest of the year here?

You know, everyone's trying to hold the line. They know it's a problem. A lot of, you know,

maybe a million or more households have been priced out of the market effectively and into used

with the higher prices. Customers are having sticker shock, you know, especially if they haven't,

bought new for three to five years and they're coming back, you know, from 2020 when prices

were more like the mid 30s to now where the average price is 50. It is, it is absolute sticker

shock. People are jumping to used or they're going, you know, down a full class in, you know,

size if they can. So, it's a real trying point. One of the interesting statistics I saw when I get,

find this one for you from a Cox presentation, Cox Automotive. In 2020,

households making more than 200,000 accounted for 18% of sales. Now it's 29,

more than 10%. And those households with annual income less than 100,000. In 2020,

they still accounted for 50% of the new vehicle market. In 2025, it was down to 37.

It was just a huge swing. And so the focus of dealers and of automakers now is much more

on the affluent families and individuals, even than it ever was.

I think if you look around to sort of keep that like, you know, average transaction price going up

is this like just plethora of new trims. I mean, basically every model from almost every OEM,

you could get in some sort of rugged off road costume in some cases. And some are actually

very legit, you know, and I actually have really enjoyed things like the wilderness trim on Subaru

is I think that's a really good application. The trail sport level on Hondas. There's some other

ones that maybe aren't quite worth your money. But I mean, just the amount of

everyone, the jeepification, the jeepification of the of America's crossovers, right?

Everybody wants a little of that, that joy and or the Bronco if you're, if you're Ford inclined,

I guess. But yeah, no, those that's a big part of it. And look, automakers and dealers have a hard

time selling the cheap cars. They people who buy new, they do want cool features. They want

the heated seats. They want the extra space. And that's, you know, it is there's a natural

pull to the market. Now the one counter narrative, right, is the compact compact SUV compact crossovers

or that RAV four CRV class. You know, those are mostly priced and still in the mid to high 30s.

And and have been outselling full size pickups. So, you know, that's, that's an important part of

the mix that does sort of keep the average from soaring off, you know, towards 60.

That is a truly frightening thought at average price for new cars, 60 grand.

Well, you just think, you know, with all the tariff costs that the automakers at this point

have been absorbing, but over time, they're going to try to trickle that out, out to the

consumers, right? They're trying to find cost savings. But, you know, if so prices went up

by 10%, you look at an average of 55. So, yeah, no, it's, it's perilous. You know, during COVID times,

the industry at all levels found, you know, basically they could make more money making

fewer vehicles, you get more revenue and have less cost, you know, doing 15 or 16 million

at 45,000, then doing 17 million at 35. But now the costs are going up mostly from tariffs.

And there's no extra benefit to that, right? It doesn't give them any extra pricing power.

I mean, a little bit for Ford and GM against other automakers, but it mostly is just extra cost

for the consumer or for the manufacturer. All right, so we're going to take a break right now

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subsidiary. Okay, we're talking to Jamie Butters. We just covered a lot of different, we sort of blitzed

the cosmos, but some other big news last week was the Toyota Highlander. It's now a three row EV,

which really sort of changes, like you have to do a lot of mental recalibration. What do you think

what the Highlander has been for years at this point? Now it's taking aim at like the big electric

three rows from Hyundai Motorco, you know, like the Kia EV9. So totally repositioning. It's again,

you know, that's that's not a rumor. That's a fact. I will say this hot take big risk for Toyota.

What do you think, Jamie? Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who is still kind of reeling and

processing this. You know, I know they had hinted at it. And, you know, the idea was out there.

But to actually have it be official, you know, I mean, the Highlander was such a mainstay for

Toyota in the late 90s and early 2000s. And to see it, of course, its sales have gone down and down.

So but to see them position and for, you know, Toyota, it's one thing they've done some,

some of their key names have gone all hybrid, right? Camry and the minivan, right? They've taken,

you know, they've been really big advocates for hybrids. But they've been kind of slow on the EVs

because they don't make money on them. And to have them take a name play a name like Highlander

and make it all EV was is just kind of kind of shocking still. I think it's interesting coming

from Toyota to a company that has not been quite as bullish on EVs as Ford General Motors and

Hyundai and Mercedes. I mean, the list goes on. This was not really the jam. And now, apparently,

it is. Well, you know, I think it's one of those cases where they developed this for the

old regime under when we had the Inflation Reduction Act and $7,500 tax credits.

And they were so far along that to kill it would just be, you know, to not at least even get the

full learnings of doing it. But the one, you know, one advantage for it, perhaps, you know,

it is going to be made in Kentucky. It's going to have batteries from North Carolina. So it'll be,

you know, pretty immune from tariffs and may have a bit of advantage over some other EVs.

But gosh, you know, Toyota probably did it because they felt like they had to.

And they thought they were going to get a lot more support. I haven't heard them

announcing any sort of major technological breakthrough, industrial breakthrough that's

going to make this profitable. So the volumes might even keep sinking from their current low

points. So we'll see. I would compare this to the Hyundai Santa Fe redesign from a couple

years ago, where they took one of their bestsellers in a very like nebulous but attractive design. It

looked like, you know, a crossover that you would see on every, you know, mall and 7-Eleven in America,

just very, you know, just common type of design. And they made it this like boxy, reborn almost

like Ford Flex type vehicle. People loved it. People hated it. But it really got a lot of

attention and sales did, you know, I believe they increased and they got a lot of good press for it.

So that was kind of a gamble that would pay off. And to me, that's one of the only parallels in

recent history for taking like such a, you know, venerable nameplate and then changing it. You

could argue the same thing with the charger, but the charger quickly got a, you know, Hurricane

straight six engine. It was an EV for about a model year. And that was probably the right play.

So, yeah, you know, I will say there, I think there are a lot of Toyota loyalists

and who want an EV, who want an EV from Toyota. And I, maybe the BZ isn't really what they were

looking for and maybe giving them a name they're used to Rumi interior and make it a premium

product, you know, premium price product. I could see that it could have a chance.

It would be interesting to see how it finds its market.

Exactly. Exactly. So we have some news from Ferrari this week. This kind of takes me back

to when I was fortunate to cover the Geneva Motor Show. And there would always be like

a new Ferrari that would drop right around now. Then you get to see it at the show in late February,

early March. They're teasing out the, the luce. I think I said that right. I'm Italian. We'll

say it's right. I guess. Thank you. Thank you. And then they showed the interior

designed by one Johnny Ive, who you know from Apple. His take though, and it's interesting,

because if you look at the picture they dropped, I can see the Apple comparisons in there. But

some comments he told to like the assembled press, I wasn't there, but widely reported.

He basically was like, touchscreens are, we're a bad idea. You know, we never meant for them to

go into cars, which I think the irony here is dripping. And it's like, we've been through

some hot takes. That's a hot take from the guy who like arguably, he didn't invent the iPhone,

but he had a lot to do with how it looked. I'll say this, he's not wrong. I think it's,

I don't know, I think we've gone too far for definitely in some cars where there's no knobs

or buttons. Well, and he's not wrong, especially for the reason that he's, that he cited, which is

that to have a screen requires you to look at it, requires you to take your eyes off the road.

You know, you have to be precise. It depends where you put it, where you touch it with knobs.

Of course, you can kind of feel, you know, you know, and they're in the, in a certain position,

you can, you can do it without looking. And that's the real danger with screens from the

beginning, but especially as they got better and better. I guess that's why the cars are supposed

to be fully self-driving. That's true. I mean, that's, that's a really interesting parallel,

actually, because when you think about some of these technologies, I mean, would you want

some crazy, huge touchscreen in a Ferrari? I mean, you're supposed to drive that car fast.

I was in a McLaren Artura last fall and I don't think it was, it might have been a

touchscreen, but it was so small. And like literally in my review, I wrote,

touchscreen is kind of crappy, but who cares? It's a McLaren, you know. So I think there's

obviously different strokes for different folks. You know, some brands like Ram, for example,

with their enormous vertical things, which actually I think worked pretty well, but

well, it did work well because they didn't put the key functions behind three layers of

screen touches, right? The main things that you really need. I mean, it was just a really well

designed interior, especially for its day, but the things you needed easy access to were there.

And then when you wanted a nice display for your navigation and whatnot, that was there too.

All right. So we'll close things out with a rumor. Our friend Jim Farley, who is generally quite

loquacious at times anyway, there's certainly been some interesting quotes he's put in books

by some of our former journalist colleagues over the years. But he said, never say never,

last month when it comes to Ford going back to Sedans. I think Jim says a lot of things. I don't

think that means anything about that there's like a Taurus in development. But honestly,

I think I see a day where like probably a Taurus or a Fusion, like a name with a really strong name

comes back because I think it's easy market share that they're kind of leaving on the table. I think

there are a market of consumers that would like to drive these. I think dealers would probably

like them a little bit. But what do you think? Is this rumor crazy? Am I crazy? What do you think,

Jamie? You're a little crazy, Greg. I put that on a T right there for you. That's right. I mean,

I say that just as a general rule. You're a little crazy. But no, I mean, I think Jim's right,

never say never. If you're thinking that something's in development, I would tell you to take a cold

shower and call me in the morning. But if the trend... Look, I mean, I'm not trying to be

caddy at Ford, but if the trend blows to Sedans, they will follow it. When everyone was running

to EVs, they ran to EVs. Everyone ran away from EVs. They ran away from EVs. Now, of course,

they're doing the skunk works and trying to do a China style car and get competitive in EVs. So

that's the big bet for later in the decade. But look, if Americans decide they want Sedans,

if some generation comes along that wants Sedans, Ford will make them. I have no doubt.

All right. Well, I have no doubt that I've enjoyed hanging out with you today

for breaking down all the news of the week. Thanks for being here, Jamie. We'll be right back after

this. eBay has reinvented vehicle buying from click to curb. Everything's covered with their new

secure purchase. eBay isn't just where you find your car. It's where you buy it. Start to finish

title financing registration delivery. It's all built in and eligible vehicle purchases are backed

up by up to $100,000 in protection. This is what modern car buying looks like. Get your next ride

on eBay. eBay, things people love. Secure purchase is powered by Carmel Dealer Services LLC and eBay

subsidiary. Okay, Mike Schley joins me now to talk about his latest gear test. Once again,

we're talking tires. These are all weather ones. Tell us about these, Mike. Yeah, so I tested my

first long term set of all weather tires, not to confused with all season. And there's a distinction

there. All season, although they're called all season, they're really what many consider three

season. They're good for early spring to late fall, but not really meant for winter, even though it

says that all weather are actually meant to be used all year round. They're not going to be

as dedicated in the snow and ice as a winter tire, but they're not going to be too far off.

And same thing with the all season, they will quite be as good in the summer. So these Toyos,

that's pretty much what I found. They are a little bit noisier than a more low rolling,

real assistant all season tire. And in the ice and slash, when it came to ultimate braking,

or hard acceleration, they give up a little more grip. And that's because they have full

grooves all the way around, because they need to work in the warm weather, as well as the cool,

because if it was just chalky, chalky, it was just chunky treads, then it would create even more

noise. And then we start to overheat in the summer. So what I was surprised about is how well

they actually handle snow. They gripped really well when cornering. I never felt like I was just

going to kind of slide out at any point. And as long as you gave that fraction of a second more

braking distance and acceleration, they were quite good. If you live in an area that routinely

routinely gets a foot of snow or more multiple times a year, probably aren't looking at all

weather tires, but if you live in an area where you get a couple inches, maybe a couple times a

year, then it is a good alternative. And they've come a long way. They are definitely closer to

a winter tire than an all season is. So these are Toyo Celsius to all weather tires. If you're

looking to pick up set for yourself. I'm curious, what did you test them on? They were on a super

cross track. So a vehicle that is quite good in the winter. So you might think, well, of course,

they performed all right, but I've used that same vehicle for multiple all season and winter tire

tests. So I had a good baseline and reference to put them against. And yeah, I wouldn't be afraid

to put them on a front wheel drive car or SUV even, that again is in an area that doesn't get

heavy deep snow routinely. That's interesting. So you've got, it's interesting, if you live like

I would say anywhere north of, I don't know, Columbus, Ohio, where you're going to get really

hit with snow and even probably a little bit south of it, you might want to look at tires like this

because you know, there's all seasons, there's all weather and then of course snow, which is what,

you know, what frankly in Michigan and Canada that you really should consider looking at.

But these sort of fit in for that more, you know, well, maybe the middle part of the U.S.

and just climates where it's a little more temperate, but you still need some capability.

And I'll be honest with you, I, all weather tires or something I've heard of, but I mean,

I was only vaguely aware of what they are. So I think you really describe the use case for them

pretty well. Yeah, if you live in the mountains of Pennsylvania or Buffalo, New York, you're not

going to need these tires. But the areas you described, like I could even see Nashville

since 90 areas where you might get the odd ice frost because the compromises in the summer

aren't like they're so minor. There's no performance. It's really just sound. And that's

the whole point of them because with winter tires, they get pretty squishy in the summer and you can

feel it and they disintegrate faster. So yeah, it's an area where, well, you might get a bit of

snow or ice and you need to replace your all seasons, maybe look at an all weather. All right,

sounds good. So that is our weekly gear test with Mike. We'll be back with what we've been road

testing after this. All right, so now it's time to go inside the Auto Guide Garage where Mike has

been driving the Kia EV4 and I have been in the Ford Maverick Lobo. If you're listening to this,

you're probably a little confused. What is a Kia EV4? Anywhere, well, in the United States, we do

not get that. This is currently a Canada only electric vehicle. So Mike, why don't you start

off by telling everybody what this thing is? And then I think I have a pretty good idea how it drove

because I really like the EV6, but we could get into that. So what is this thing? First of all?

Yeah, it's funny. The name EV4 kind of really wraps it up because it's like one part EV6 and one

part K4. So basically it's Kia's compact-ish electric car as opposed to crossover, which the

EV6 is very car-ish. This is front-wheel drive only. It's a little smaller, more affordable. It is

designed to be the car. It has a slightly smaller battery. It's only about 58 kilowatt-hour. It's

front-wheel drive only, like I said. I'd have to look up the power. I think it's around 200 horsepower.

Yeah, 200 horsepower. Like that class sort of, that seems to be the sweet spot now, you know,

leaf and Ioniq 6, I think the entry-level front-wheel drives around there too. So yeah, it's

offering a more affordable EV alternative. And for the listeners in the US, it's hard to relate

because it is in Canada only, but in Canada it's in the low 50s to mid 50s, depending on what you

get. And a fully-loaded compact car is probably in the low 40s. So, you know, you're talking a

premium of about 20%, but it drives so nice. Like we've said many times on this podcast,

electric cars inherently are so much more premium than their gas counterparts to drive because

there's no engine noise. There's no transmission that needs to be smoothed out. Like an electric

luxury vehicle versus a mainstream. It's so hard to tell the difference in how they drive.

And that's the case here. It is heavy because it's an EV, but that really benefits it on rough roads

and speed bumps. It just completely absorbs them. The range is pretty good. I've been seeing

well, well above 400 kilometers. So, you know, you're talking close to 300 miles in the winter,

which is good. And the drivability, it just feels a lot like the K4, which I think is a

good thing because at that class, I don't think you want something that's too obscure in behavior.

You're probably trying to convince people that want a car. Hey, here's also a electric one that's

just going to save you a lot of money on fuel. And they've really succeeded. It's got a lot of

options, which helps justify its price too. It's not just expensive because it's an EV. I mean,

I got heated two-stage heated steering wheel, heated ventilated seats, power seat, memory seats.

I got a moonroof. It's got the usual Kia dual digital instrument panel with the digital driver

information center and climate or an infotainment system. So, it's got every feature you need,

all the safety stuff. Yeah, it's well executed. And it's a shame that due to tariffs that would

really price it out of the ballpark that you're not going to get it in the US for now, I think

things will change one day. Yeah, I agree. I think it's a very solid looking product. I think it's

extremely stylish. I think Kia has been doing a great job with their styling in recent years,

both inside and out. Yeah, tariffs would, like you said, make it prohibitive to be sold at any

sort of reasonable price right now, but maybe in a few years. And I think also it's smart for Kia

to kind of have this wide portfolio of vehicles that they can maybe drop into markets as geopolitical

headwinds change. But aside from all that, I would like to drive it. Next time I'm up at the

main office in Toronto, I may try to get my hands on one of these things. I think it's a

compelling product. And I think it might have actually done pretty well in the United States

like two years ago or something, two, three years ago. But you know, we'll see. I think

I really have enjoyed the K4 and the K4 hatch, I think is another solid variant of this whole

kind of family. So I think there could be, there could be a business case down the road for electrifying

this segment for Kia. Yeah, I am, I just looked it up and it's range is actually 391k. So let's

think I was getting that much, but it seems to be to be pretty well. And to your point about

the portfolio, yeah, the EV6, which is available in the US, we're not getting as in Canada like we

used to. But we have the EV5 and the EV4. So yeah, you can sort of mix and match what's needed, when

needed. It reminds me a little bit of, especially with like the American, like Ford and GM with

big overseas operations, we're always hearing like, Hey, this thing might come over from Europe,

and it almost never does. Except for when Buick decided it was going to become Opel for about,

you know, five or 10 years there when all those Buick sedans came over. But companies with global

footprints and global strategies, it certainly can be, can be useful and strategic, you know, to try

to flesh out the portfolios. So more to come on this one, I think. I don't think the chapter is

written here, final chapter is written here. But a vehicle you most definitely could get in the

United States is the Maverick Lobo. I tested this one, actually twice last fall. Most recently,

this was for North American Truck of the Year, testing in late December. I also drove it more

extensively, you know, earlier in the fall. But this most recent loan, I really, I really enjoyed

it. It did end up winning Truck of the Year, which I think was deserved. I think the field,

you know, was, it was not a huge year with major redesigns of refreshes, but still very much a worthy

truck to win. This was a lot of fun to drive. And I'm pretty sure you've driven this, Mike, too.

This kind of speaks to the generation, I think, where I remember, like street trucks, things like

that, where Ford was really trying to capture that enthusiast market. So this one's a little bit

lower, 250 horsepower engine. It's obviously it's not a hybrid, which I think they're trying to keep

that hybrid vibe away from the Lobo. Although one could argue electrification, like some light

hybrid in here might actually even help performance. I'll leave that to the Ford guys. It certainly

looks the part with the big wheels. They have a lovely selection of paints for it that give it

that like street truck look. I think the Maverick actually has one of the better interiors of any

truck in any segment. Maybe that's a hot take. We were doing some hot takes earlier. But I think

with the Lobo trim, especially with the seats, which are quite comfortable, it really comes to life.

All wheel drive. So I drove this thing in December. No problems. It snowed a little bit. This thing

gave me plenty of traction. So, you know, overall, I think this is a compelling entry in a segment

where for so long, it was pretty boring. You know, there were small trucks, there were midsize

trucks, which were frankly, probably even more boring than small trucks. And then there were the

full size trucks as well as like heavy duties. Doing something like this just didn't happen. I don't

think for the better part of, you know, the early 2000s and whatnot. And speaks to me to how creative

product planners, I think, are getting as far as again, fleshing out their portfolio to continue

with that theme. I had a lot of fun with it. You know, it's, it's definitely a good daily driver

for someone who maybe wants to have a little fun, but also, you know, doesn't want to pop over to

like a Mustang or something. Like if you want a truck, a commuter truck, I would look at this. Now,

I also think Ford has done a nice job building out the Lobo trim too. I think that's something where

I think people are starting to know what it means now. When it first came out, we were kind of like,

okay, what, what, what are you doing here? But I think it's starting to speak to people. It's

giving dealers something unique, compelling to sell. And I think consumers, especially enthusiasts,

when you look at this thing, you know, it's not just some like kind of lame trim package,

you know, it is something special. And I think people are going to start seeking it out. So

yeah, it was kind of a fun sort of early Christmas week in this thing. So I enjoyed it quite, quite

a bit. Yeah, I've gone on many times on this show about how much I like it. And I'm looking forward

to when they get the 300 horsepower version with the upgraded turbo dealer installed. That'll be

fantastic. So yeah, it's, it's such a good little vehicle. And it's one I can definitely see myself

buying one day. Yeah, it's in this one is it's lower. You got the 19 inch wheels. Mine had the

13.2 inch sync powered touch screen. To inside, it's actually quite intuitive. It's not like

some things are all of the screens, all of the things. This thing's pretty,

pretty civilized in that sense. And I also think just lobo or otherwise, I think the Maverick is

a very clever vehicle. I think there's just the inside is well laid out, plenty of cup holders,

like, like cubby holes to stick your phone. I got a car seat back there. No problem. You can do the

vent to the back like that kind of truck vibe if you want to like, you know, wake everybody up in

the backseat. So it's just a lot of fun. I think it does a good job of like trucks are supposed

to be fun in addition to being highly useful. But trucks like this in this segment, in which the

lobo competes, I think are especially fun. And yeah, I think this this really resonated with me.

So I mean, I think I can say now that I voted for it for truck of the year, now that it's

out and the votes are out and it won. So I don't think that's a state secret. But yeah, it's a lot

of fun. All right, so that is the AutoGuide Garage for this week. We'll be right back with the mailbag.

Okay, so the question of the week is, would you have any hangups buying a Rivian Lucid or

another product from another niche manufacturer? I think what we're seeing here is the writer has

it's just curious of how you'd be worried about buying something from a company that hasn't been

around all that long. I will kick it over to you. What do you think, Mike?

I would say yes, because it would be a terrible financial decision by me due to my tax bracket.

But if I had the means to buy one of these vehicles, no, I wouldn't be worried. Do your

research. I mean, it's a little different for me, because I am so into cars, and I made many

terrible purchase decisions from legacy OEMs that I knew were cars I shouldn't be buying that had

issues and I didn't care. So yeah, if you're someone who really doesn't want to have to deal

with anything with the vehicle, like not even if there's a recall and whatnot, maybe not because

they're dealing networks smaller. But if you're talking on just a build and quality, we've mentioned

before, it means a little different than a regular car. And the brands you mentioned, I wouldn't

be worried about Rivian, Lucid, even like Tesla. No, some of the ones that are a little more startup

or smaller, maybe I'd question. But those ones all, if you sort of trace the money and trace the

personnel, you know that they know what they're doing. So yeah, I wouldn't be worried. And I mean,

Rivian is going to get some more affordable products. Maybe I will be in the market for one

Monday. Yeah, I think in the case of like those specific ones, I wouldn't have any issues. I think

they've, I mean, they've been around long enough at this point to indicate that they do have some

staying power. You can look at some of the legacy OEMs like, you know, Ford and GM have some of the

biggest recalls in the industry right now, and they've been making cars for 120 years. So I mean,

I think there is something to like, hey, how long are, is this like, how will I get this thing

serviced? If there were a recall, how is that going to go? Specifically, like Rivians and Lucids

are kind of, they're different vehicles, you know, the R2 Rivian is going to be a little more like

ubiquitous to a broader segment, I think. But I don't think I'd have any sort of hang up. I think

you get that early adopter kind of vibe. And I think that could be exciting. There's always going

to be some kind of warts with each product like this, because like, you know, the R1 is, that was

trying to be different. Like the inside has basically like no knobs or buttons. So, you know,

you're going to get some weirdness there. In Teslas for a while, their build quality was

very uneven, you know, you would get inside and wow, you know, what, what happened here,

some of them will also be very good. So, it's a little bit like, like a craft beer type of comparison,

if I can make that, like you might try one that's like, oh, that's really good. You might try another

one that's just super weird and kind of skunky and, you know, you move on to the next one. Now,

with a car, it's the second most important purchase you may ever make in your life. So, you can't just,

you know, belly up to the bar and order another pint, but I think if you're willing to be adventurous

and go down those roads, there's a lot of like benefit to trying something new like this.

So, I guess we'll see. You know, I don't know. Any other thoughts you think? I don't know. Any

other thoughts, Mike? No, I mean, to make a good point, you know, sometimes there are misses, but

I also wouldn't recommend going after one that just gets on the market, like give it a year or two

or a couple, because there have been some that have come and gone already or some that never came

to begin with. But again, the ones mentioned in that question, I would have no issue with.

Like a fisk or something, for example, you would obviously, or a company of that ilk,

you want to be, unless you're like, plenty of money and you're like, hey, this is a toy and I

want it. I mean, that would be the only caution I would put out there is if like, you know a company

and we know so much about car makers these days, because hey, you can find it all on AutoGuide.

It's something where you just like, if you know going into it and you're informed that, hey, you

know, that's that's all you can do, you know, otherwise, let the buyer beware. But yeah, I

think it's a great time. Like there's companies that didn't exist. And now they're out there and

they have products and they're on the road and they're bringing new types of technologies

to more and more consumers and more people are getting excited about cars. I mean, that's why

we got into this in the first place. So I think it's a good thing. I really do. And that's all

the time we have this week on the AutoGuide show presented by eBay Motors. Be safe out there and

we'll see you next week. eBay is reinvented vehicle buying from click to curb. Everything's

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Rumors, Hot Takes and Facts | The AutoGuide Show Ep. 109

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