Second Generation Shop Ownership

no business is going to outgrow the owner. You can train your text till they're blue in the face,

you can train your sales staff, but if you're not growing, you're going to hold them back at some

point. Beyond the Wrench with Jay Gannon from Wrenchway.

Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench. My name is Jay Gannon and I am your host. We spend a lot of

time in this industry talking about the technician pipeline, how we attract and retain talent, but

today we're shifting the focus to a different pipeline that doesn't get nearly enough attention

and that is ownership. What happens when the torch gets past or maybe when it doesn't?

My guest today wants to spark a bigger conversation around second generation shop ownership,

why more kids of shop owners aren't stepping in and what opportunity might be getting overlooked.

Brad Templin, welcome to the show. How are you? Good morning, Jay. Thank you for having me on.

Yes, doing well. It's beautiful somehow. February here in Chicago, we're 57 degrees. I feel like

just a couple of weeks ago, we were nine inches of snow and negative 10. We'll take the ups and

the downs. Yes, being just north of you in Wisconsin, we go through all of those ups and

downs through winter as well. Nice sunny day outside. We'll take them when we can get them.

Now, as we were getting kicked off and even in our pre-show meeting, just hit it off with you on

so many different things. I'm really looking forward to this one just because I think you've

got a very unique perspective, a very unique upbringing. It'll be a fun show. I think holding

it to an hour could be a challenge, but I'm looking forward to this one. Me too. My big thing is,

hopefully, this just resonates with somebody or starts the wheels to turn. As always, I hope all

of us are just so prideful of this industry and prideful of what we do. Yeah. Well, let's start

with your journey. You didn't take the typical path straight into the family business. Walk us

through what you thought your career was going to look like and maybe how that eventually shifted.

Right. Surprisingly, the story starts back in 1919 with my great-grandfather. He's the one I say

in 1919 and just thought that these engines he was building at the time are going to break,

and we need a parks division. They ended up, actually, his boss said, no, let's just make

another company. The two of them did that for a number of years. They grew it pretty successfully.

He really surrounded the Chicago area. He had about 13 warehouses and eventually sold out to

a larger company. My dad was the first one to walk away from that. He was getting into the

business at a younger age, saw all of his uncles in the business. He was one of the younger cousins

as well. His cousins were in the business and decided, if I'm going to do this, I think the

best opportunity is maybe I do it on my own. In 1981, he went and bought a, it was technically a

gas station, but the two bays just stored tires. Even here in Chicago, for 12 years,

we did tires outside on jacks. Everything was inside, was just storage of stock.

Still, in the 90s, we always did full service gas. That's how I cut my teeth in this. I would go

there on weekends and such, and I'd be the gas bumper. I loved it. I thought it was so fun.

But in that reality, though, I'd never really got into the automotive side, the tire side,

really too much into the business. Unfortunately, my father did pass when I was younger. I was six.

My mom stepped up. My mom's been, I'm sure we'll get into it, but she's superwoman.

She's been running this for 28 years, and especially in the 90s, it wasn't too common to

see a female shop owner, but she did it. And I think that kind of maybe is why I took this

different path. And part of it too, I just feel like it was the 90s growing up and

go get good grades, go to a good college, get more good grades, get a decent job, go back,

get more schooling, get more good grades. And then eventually, you just retire on a beach,

at executive conferences and dinners, and you play golf with your clients and such. And

I think that just a lot of our parents in the 90s thought that was success. And I look back on it

now after going through this journey to get to here. And I think that they saw it as maybe the

safe play or that it was going to be the least stress for us to build a career. And there was

myself, I know other friends at the time that their dads owned electrician companies or contractors

or industrial supply, whatever it be. And all of us really never were involved in those businesses.

We were so heavily talked about, you need to go to secondary education and you need to go build

this white collar career. And so that's what I did. I actually went to school for aerospace

engineering, came out, had a job at a hydraulic fluid company, and went to Detroit. And it was

lucky though, it was a fantastic company. They were already in fourth generation, taught me a lot

on the business side of treating employees, how to build culture, things of that. And I had a

buddy that told me, Hey, man, I don't know what you're thinking or what you're doing, but you're

really gun hoe on this corporate thing. What about the family business? And at that time,

I was about to graduate, I went back to Michigan to get my MBA and was thinking, it's tires. What

do you tell me? I don't want to go back and do that. I don't even know it. I never worked in it,

really. What do you mean this family thing? And he's like, I don't know, it's just,

you know, and this is the line there. I feel like I always thought about this after our

long conversations was, do you want to go build something for somebody else? Do you want to go

build it for you? And I think that just was something I couldn't shake. And probably after

a month of stewing on it, I called my mom, she was coming out to Detroit to visit. We were at

a bar and I said, Hey, I got something to talk to you about. What do you think about me quitting,

moving, coming home, and I work for you. And I think she about fell off the bar.

Talk me through that conversation because you had to have put thought into it, right?

A lot of thought. And when she's coming to Detroit, is it something that you're nervous

about talking to her about? Is it something that you, like as you're approaching it, you don't

know how to approach that conversation? I feel like that is a, it's an odd conversation for

somebody you're so close to, right? And that you're, you know, you, you're sitting down and you're

like, I don't know how she's going to take it. I have to think that was a part of the conversation

where in your head, it's kind of spinning rapidly and like, how am I going to approach this?

In twofold is, you know, I think too, and growing up in the nineties too,

that our parents really thought and believed in, that you could go do anything, right? You

if you go to these good colleges, right, you do this path that we talked about, you can go do

anything. And so I feel like I had that inside of me of you can go do anything. And looking back

on it now, I almost feel like maybe I was just like, wide eyed optimist that I thought, yeah,

this is going to be great. Like I'm going to come back, we're going to grow it, we're going to do

this. And I think at that point, I was more so, I felt like I wanted to sell her on me coming back

to your point of right that I wasn't so nervous about coming back. I think I was more nervous about

her buying in that this is going to be a good opportunity. This, this is better than me going

on and moving to a more corporate role. Well, when we talk through this and you can do anything,

you didn't go to just any engineering school like Purdue's engineering school is one of the

best engineering schools probably in the world, right? It is a top tier program that is really,

really hard. And I, you know, I look back to me growing up in the nineties. And what was interesting

about Purdue and their engineering program was I grew up as a big racing fan, you can kind of

still see, I've got like race cars behind me, but Ryan Newman, who is the NASCAR driver, went to

Purdue for engineering. And that was the one thing that stuck out to me was that, you know,

I really was not interested in going that route. But then you look at somebody like that who is,

you know, racing full time as their career, but then also going to engineering school,

then I started doing more research on Purdue's engineering program. You're like,

dang, that is, that is not easy. So I, for you to go into engineering at one of the tougher

schools to go through a program with and then, you know, transition that over to where we're at

now, it's incredible. And I have to imagine there are things that you took away from your time at

Purdue or at Michigan to where like maybe you are applying those things today, or you're, you know,

even if it's something in like, I think of engineering as the ability to really think

through a problem really well, maybe that's that simplifying it a little too much. But talk to me

about that. What did you take out of Purdue and your lessons there that might apply to where you're

at today? Yeah, so I actually get more, it's a similar question. And I feel like I look at it

the same way. A lot of people ask me, wow, you did all this, all that. Do you wish you would have

done it differently? Or do you wish that, you know, you might have had a more direct path or

whatnot? But to your point, I always go, you know, hindsight's 2020. So I don't know what that might

have looked like to coming back in straight away or whatnot. But I love having that engineering

degree, just from the stance that I really, I mean, and I was not top of the class or anything

like that. So appreciate those those kind of words. But I think that was the really one of the

first times though, that I was truly, I mean, just really challenged. I went to a bigger high

school here in Chicago. So, you know, was accustomed to being, you know, around a lot of big fish,

right? Not always being a big fish in a small pond. But, you know, you go to that next level,

it's like, Oh, my gosh, these are some wicked smart people. And it was, it was just that first

time of really having to truly just go improve myself and not know, I guess maybe that first

time of not having that super strong conviction of you can do anything. It was like, Oh, I'm gonna,

I'm gonna get my butt kicked here. You're in the deep end now. Yeah. But you know, those pieces,

I feel like still are with me today that maybe I look at risk a little differently or to your

point, right, that to me, it's, it's just a problem or an equation or a thing that needs to be

dissected and looked at in pieces. And the risk doesn't scare me too much or the risk doesn't,

doesn't make me not want to take action. And I think that I do go back to having that,

that engineering degree, just going through those processes, even just, you know, time at

getting my MBA and such, I did that part time over a number of years at night while still working.

But, you know, just, I think just business in my mind is simple. And I know that sounds

terrible to say, but I think it is so simple because any business is a people business. So if

you can, if you can figure out people, you can do business. And again, that, that piece of it is just,

it's an equation, it's, what do they like? What do they need? How can I help? And that's to an

employee, that's to a customer, that's to a vendor. And if you extend that olive branch,

maybe I'm just young enough, still haven't been burned enough that there's more often than not,

it's just you extend whatever I've given, I've gotten back 10-fold. And that's been a huge

foundation to our business, I think. Well, and I do think there's value in that,

when you think through like the best technicians, a lot of times they have a very similar mindset

or a very similar approach to an engineer in how they think through problems and how they,

you know, can have a plan ahead of time when they're going into a tough,

dying job or something like that. And I have a feeling that has to allow you to relate to

some of your team as well of like, Hey, you know what, I understand, like this is tough,

like some of this is really, really hard to do. And maybe help guide them through thinking through

a problem or maybe younger staff as they're coming in and helping them. You know, I always

look back to my time in school, I wish I would have taken a piece of it a little bit more seriously.

My parents would say they wish I would have taken a lot of it more seriously, but a piece of it that

I wish I could tell my younger self was that, you know, even if you're sitting in that geometric

class or that algebra class, where you might not understand how that's going to relate to

your future profession, in a lot of ways, that's how I was very stubborn in that,

if I didn't think it was going to help me in the long run, I kind of just avoided it, right. And

but when I look back, and something I tell my son is you almost have to learn how to learn,

right, you have to learn how to think through a problem. And I, I devalued that so much when

I was in school, but looking back, I do think there's a lot, a lot of benefit to just doing

hard stuff and getting through it and figuring out how to fix something. And I wish I would

have taken that part a little bit more seriously, similar to what you're saying as you went into

Purdue, like it forces your brain to kind of expand. A hundred percent. And I, maybe I hadn't

even reflected on that myself as much as what you're saying right now. And I just think,

you know, part of that business side of it and ownership side, why I say, I guess, maybe,

I think it's easy is there's also so many resources out there now. And there's, and not

just with business, with anything of online learning or in-person learning or podcast or

right, there's just so much. And there's, it's not all great info on the first hit, right? We got

to be careful what we consume. But there's, there's so much there that if you're willing to be a

sponge into your point, if you're willing to learn how you learn to and know that you can't just

keep consuming and think it's all going to stick, you got to figure out what works for you. And,

and you can just keep growing and building and, and you get better. I always say it,

you can never expect a team to get better than the leader. You can never expect the business to

outgrow the owner. So if there's, if there's problems, I look in the mirror every day, it's me.

That's it. I caused it. I accepted it. I allowed it. Whatever happened, it was me.

And if you do that, I think people start to give you a little more respect at times and,

and then they start believing too of, okay, we're doing something bigger than just dollars and cents.

Oh, I, what you just said there is so impactful because I 100% agree in that

the more a leader can look in the mirror and say, this is, this is my fault, regardless of what it

is. It's under my umbrella. It's my fault. I do think that also sets, it sets the expectation

for the leaders that work as a part of your team as well to really take that part seriously. If

you're showing it by example, you're leading by example with that. And you see one of your managers

that does something similar where they're, where they take responsibility for something. It just

shows a huge amount of growth in a person when they're able to take that on their own shoulders.

Absolutely. And, you know, another thing that I'll always say, we kind of talk about this at the

pre show this time of our four managers, three of them started for us as tire techs. And to see

those guys grow and to be a part of that journey has been incredibly rewarding. But I mean that

any good leader I would hope would say, you know, I just kind of put the path in front of them. I

dusted it off a little. I painted a picture. These guys just went running. They believed in

themselves as well. Like they did the true work. I just kind of painted a picture and they went,

okay, yeah, that makes sense to me. I can do it. Let's go.

There's so much good there that I want to talk through, but I do want to revisit one thing

before we move on. And that is your mother and what she was able to accomplish with the business

through a really, I'm assuming a very, very tough transition to where she had kind of the guts to

take it head on. And I can't give more respect to a person than somebody like that, right? That

takes it head on, I'm sure through a very difficult time. And to be able to not only take it on, but

to elevate it, it sounds like your mother's a pretty impressive person. I am truly lucky. I mean,

that's like the foundation of everything for me, right? Like personal professional now too, right?

So she is, I said it, she's a superwoman. I don't know how she did it. I couldn't do what she did.

I don't know. Now that I have my own kids, now that I'm in the bit, I'm going, oh my gosh, what

it like, whoa, I didn't realize everything that was going on at the time or what it would have

taken for her to do everything she was doing. And, and I think again, she set that example early on

in our lives of, you know, just hard work, perseverance, believing yourself, don't give up.

And, and she's, she's never taken the easy road. She's in, oh man, yeah, I could talk about,

you want to talk about going over an hour, I could do that about my mom. And to your point,

right, she wasn't really overly involved in the business. She did some of, you know,

kind of the bookkeeping here and there and really not bookkeeping was more just kind of

accounts receivable and such. And not even on the tire side was mostly on the gas side,

because we just had so much gas accounts. And yeah, it was, you know, just kind of a sudden

passing and stepped in and really ran with it. And she was the first to say, I came in just

to keep everything stable. And I ended up falling in love with it and falling in love with our people.

And there was, I mean, even just of late, you know, there was still a handful of people that were

hired by my dad that were still here after 2010. And, and she just, I think she saw how he did

things well and even improved upon that too with her own flavor and her own flair. And

I think that's too what I saw when you went back to that conversation of what was I nervous about

that, that I just saw like, man, this thing, this has such great roots, this has such a foundation

to grow. I really felt like it was a rocket ship just needed an ignition underneath it.

Oh, I, so what does it look like when you have that conversation in Detroit? And maybe you're

kind of transition period back, walk me through the first days of coming back, what was your first

role? What, what all were you doing once you got back? And again, I, I give this so well to my mom to

have the foresight, the, and I think truth is like true leadership that I came in. So she,

she offered me basically a tire tech salary said, I need you to work a tire tech schedule.

You know, you're going to, we're open on weekends, you're going to be here, you're not getting a

special schedule. And I think it's going to take at least a year of you to learn this business

before you can ever talk to me about expansion or buying another store or any of that. I, you are

coming into, you know, ground up. And I, she still jokes about it, that she actually did that hoping

I would say no. She still says, she's like, I really thought I was going to give you such a bad

offer, but in a test too, right? Of, I'm going to give him such a bad offer, I don't even think he's

going to take it. And I don't know if this is even the best option anyway. So maybe he'll say no.

But if he is going to say yes to this, I guess I'll start to take this a little more serious.

And I was just like, yeah, I mean, that makes sense. And she was like, oh, okay. I said, you know,

but if you have these kinds of stipulations or requirement, whatever you want to call it,

you know, I'm coming back to grow the business, though, I can't wait around. I also the business

in its, you know, capacity and stages at right now, I don't think it can sustain you and I long

term. And so I'm willing to do that, if you're willing to say that we really are going to grow,

and I'm not just going to wait around for every year, it's another three years, I'll retire another

three years, I'll retire. And I do think that unfortunately, that piece of it is probably

one of the hardest pieces in family business is just that communication, that clarity,

solid expectations, following through with the expectations you also agreed to, right?

You know, there was never a time where I felt I put in the effort or I put in the work and then

she started to backtrack. I could tell right, she was like, yeah, I mean, you jumped over these

hurdles, I didn't think you were going to do that. Then you jumped over a couple more hurdles,

I didn't think you'd want to do that. So I guess it's time for me to pony up too and say, okay,

we're in it. I love that she did that, right? To put you through some of those obstacles and

ultimately, if you do take that path, it is going to set you up for more success, right?

Because then it's not saying that you didn't do any of the stuff, you didn't, you know, it's the

owner's kid and they just got elevated immediately. You went through that process and I think for

those other shop owners that might be listening to this out there that are looking at maybe that

succession plan, this is such a good tip right here to really start from the ground floor up and

have them do some jobs that might, you know, I think a lot of people might think are beneath them,

whereas if you don't do those jobs, it's really hard to understand not only the job itself, but

sometimes how hard that job is, right? There's times when, especially now with tires where

sidewalls tiny and it really stinks to do those tires, right? So I think something as simple as

that really probably had to have laid a really good foundation for you coming back into the business.

Oh my gosh. And like I said, I feel like it was really her leadership is why that even happened

or how she came up with that idea and how it played out really is, is I think it's hard too,

right? That there is that side of it of, well, on his mom, I don't want to see him fail or I don't

want to have him, I don't want his life to suck per se, right? And, you know, I think it's a scary,

it is a scary idea for a parent of where's that fine line that they have to walk of,

I want to be your parent, I want to open doors for you, I want to give you an opportunity,

but I think we all talk about it and at some point of like,

where do you realize like I'm spoiling versus I'm encouraging? And that, for my entire life,

I think my mom has done incredibly, incredibly good job of that. And then to your point of,

I came in, I think people were like, oh, okay, Brad's coming back. That's interesting. Like,

never thought we would have him come back, right? I would, you know, maybe stop in at

times when I was home for holidays or whatnot. Maybe I'd even get something done on my car

or whatnot while I was home writing. I mean, a lot of the, like I said, there was a handful of

these people that had known me before high school really, right? So, you know, they'd known me as

Brad, not as the owner son too, right? And coming in and working and being a tire tech and learning

all that, I think it proved it to her. But to your point too, right? It was, I don't think that

these people were questioning, can he do it? Or does he have good ideas? Or does he even know

how to do this? I think it showed them of, okay, he's not just doing this because this is the

easiest route. That this is the easiest way for him to become an owner of a business and make

some good money along the way, maybe. That he's, he's like totally in, he's ready to do this just

like we are. And I didn't see it that way at the start. I didn't think of it that way at the start.

I was just like, yeah, it seems like a reasonable ask on your side to prove myself. And then to your

point, I, going through that, all of a sudden saw, oh my gosh, like these people respect me and I've

haven't even been here a year yet. And I did earn that respect. And in my head, I wasn't even trying

and that she, she set me up to be successful at that. So I give her that 100%.

And what's interesting to me is the reservation she probably had with you coming back,

because that's something we see in a lot of parents, right? Of folks that own shops and maybe

their reservations to have their children come into the shop because maybe they had,

they'd gone through some hard times to get the shop to where it's at. And, and again, you, you

want to see your child have more than you did. And so it almost sticks in their brain a little bit

of, you know, this, this is such a hard business at times. If they can go down that white collar

route and do something different, the perception is that their life is going to be easier. And

when you looked at it, and I think I was in the same boat where you look at it and you say,

you know what, you've built a really good business. And for me, I'm sure you're probably in the same

thought process a little bit where in our own family shop, the name on the building meant

something to me, right? And if we were to sell that business to somebody else, there was something

along, there was something in my head that I'm a sentimental person. I've seen the history,

I grew up in the hard times of that business. And I want to see that continue to flourish and,

and be a strong pillar in the community and really kind of be, you know, in our little small town.

This shop means a lot to people because if it went away, it would cause pain for people because

they'd have to find somewhere else and there's no house close. So, you know, when I look at it,

the sentimental side of it is big. And obviously, that's more of the emotional side. But then the

business side of it, you're like, there's, there's potential there. Like there's a lot of potential

in the shop. So I'm curious if, if you had kind of a similar thought process with, with the company

or like talk to me a little bit about that side of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then I joke

about it or I talk about it a lot too, because I want, I want it to become a thought for more

of us in this industry. And I think it somewhat goes back to just keeping the pride, right,

that at times, you know, people want us to think that we're just a grease monkey or you just do

this, you just do that. And there's so much success and there's such a great runway right now in front

of this industry that if private equity and even just these larger, right, box stores or larger

organizations are wanting to grow, are putting their eggs in this basket, are putting that investment in.

This industry itself is so fragmented into mostly independently single store operators

that the number one hurdle they should have would logically would be second generation.

If they're saying this is such a great investment, this is such a right opportunity.

Second generation should be and I say second generation, I don't want to keep it to just

being a kid, right? It could be a standout format, it could be your standout manager,

it could be your standout diet guy that sure maybe your kids aren't interested or maybe your kids

are too young or whatever it be. And you can still pass that torch without having to be

the only option is I sell out to somebody bigger who's going to give me that payday.

You can still get a solid payday in a transition period and it doesn't have to leave the family

or the town or the community. And that I think we lose at times and it makes sense too, right?

I just think of it from that founder mentality or that first boots on the ground mentality,

grassroots, that that person never forgets what it was like having three people on staff,

then four people on staff, then maybe they got to five people on staff and it was too soon.

And then payroll got a little stretched or awake comes around, right? And in those feelings and

that concern never leaves them. And that's great because I think that we should always remember

that it's not always up into the right, right? But from the parent side then, I think it gets

muddied because they go, I'm protecting them by not having them come in to do what I had.

I'm protecting them by not, I don't want them to lose sleep like I did. I don't want them to

have that concern of how do I get paid or I don't want them to go two weeks without a paycheck,

but everyone else got paid to keep the place afloat. And then I'm hoping June and July get

busy and I'll make up a little bit of that, right? I mean, we've all as us as owners, us as kids,

we all saw that or experienced it or know it and they think it's protection by not showing this

as an opportunity. And that I think is totally understandable and it's commendable from a parent

standpoint. But I mean, we just went through what kind of layoffs in the tech world. You can't tell

me those executives weren't losing sleep at night. Maybe they weren't worried about their exact paycheck

or their whatever, but you can't tell me it wasn't a stressful time of I don't know what tomorrow

might look like. I don't know how solid a footing I'm sitting on. And they might be running a

billion dollar business unit, right? So I think the grass always looks greener. And we always think,

well, yeah, they got the protection because it's, you know, they made a billion dollars last year,

how could they not keep their job, right? But we see it all the time. It's stressful, it's business,

it doesn't matter if you're $500,000 shop or a $500,000,000, it's going to get stressful no matter

where you're at. And so thinking that it's a protection or that you're not wanting somebody

to have the same experience you did or the stress, I think no matter what, if you're going to be

successful, you're going to get punched in the gut, you're going to get punched in the face,

you're going to get kicked on the ground, nobody has success in an easy way. And so you can't

protect somebody from that. Hopefully you just gave them enough resources and tools and training

along the way to be prepared for it. Because that's all we can do is be prepared for it.

And you have such a good point there too, in that as parents, we want to protect our kids.

But sometimes, and I'll say every time, the best way to learn is to go through it, right? And it

is to go through some of those bumps and bruises because it's inevitably going to happen. I don't

care how good of an operation you have, there are going to be times where the road's a little bumpy,

right? And you need to learn to adapt. And that's, I think in anybody where there's real lessons to

grow off of and want to get better, right? Because if everything's just smooth sailing and you never

have any problems, maybe you don't have that drive to want to learn more or grow further. And

you know, it's taken me a long time over the course of my career. And I do think

in business, you do end up becoming a little bit more numb to a lot of things just because

you've gone through a lot of things. Whereas if you're just an employee, maybe you're shielded

from a lot of kind of the behind the scenes chaos that happens. But so often in my career,

that's been the case where I go through a really difficult time, but then come out the other side

better because of it, right? And I think my mindset has changed over the years to where you

kind of, I think it's Jaco Wilnick that always says, like, if times are getting hard good,

like, I always think about that in a way where that has shifted my mentality a little bit to

view those challenges as opportunities to get better and to really try to improve myself as a

person, our businesses as a whole, the people that surround me, you know, it's just everything.

When you look at that through a different lens, even from a parent's perspective of

my kid is probably going to go through some stuff and that's okay. They need to go through that.

I can't bubble wrap them forever. They need to learn their own stuff. That can be really,

really hard to come to terms with, but that's where a lot of growth comes from.

And I think the one thing we would always want to say is my kid has grit.

And I don't know, maybe that's just what I'd love to get it as or it's been pushed for me.

And that's even from my grandfather, my mother. And you just, you can't do that. And I don't want to

discredit anything, but you know, in a sense, we talk about a lot of

participation awards that it's sometimes you got to be okay that your kid's going to strike out.

And you got to be okay that they're going to take the ball to the face one time or what in

where you become, I think a great parent and it totally relates exactly to leadership and

business is it's all in how you then respond to them. What do you do when the manager is down

20,000 year over year for February? What do you do when part margin starts to slip?

What do you do when your main diet guy who right was humping it before he's struggling to get the

40 hours anymore? What do you do? Do you back to when I kind of sit right of, do you look in the

mirror and say, what environment am I giving them? What conditions am I putting? What tools

that I give them, right? Be it marketing, be it my involvement, be it being in the community,

and then can I go talk to them and say, look it, you struck out, but how many times did you hit

the ball this year? How many times did you get on base? How many times you hit a home run? You

know, you struck out, we can't forget about all those things. And guess what led to your point

exactly. We're not letting off the gas. We're not going to stop pushing. We're not going to stop growing.

You are going to strike out many more times, my friend. So don't be scared to strike out.

The goal would always be, right? Can we just hit it more than we strike out?

And it isn't even funny enough, right? It's like, in baseball, we're not even hoping for more than

that, right? We're hoping for 300 would be great, right? And at times, I think back to that in business

of, you know, it might be three strikeouts in a row trying something or a new vendor or process

or what. And, you know, it's a strikeout. It isn't a loss of the game. It isn't the end of the inning.

It was just a single event, a single strikeout. We're going back to bat. And if you can do that for

your kids, they're going to be great, hopefully. But I think more importantly, as anyone listening to

this owner, manager, even just a senior tech out in the shop, if you can get people around you to

feel comfortable striking out and growing, that back to that rocket ship, that's a rocket ship

waiting to ignite. Every shop, dealership and business in our industry depends on great technicians.

Between the technician shortage, disconnected school relationships and lack of trustworthy

workforce data, it makes it difficult for shops to plan higher and grow. That's where ASC Connects

comes in. Created in partnership with Wrenchway, ASC Connects is a membership designed specifically

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start building relationships and support the programs that educate our future technicians.

You can also access verified data on technician pay, benefits and labor rates through the industry

data exchange, so you know how your shop compares locally and nationally. Lastly, you can get proven

strategies for leadership, employee development and shop management through members only guides,

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smarter shop. Learn more at wrenchway.com slash solutions slash shops or follow the link in the

first and foremost. I have to say, I love when you said second generation, it didn't necessarily mean

a child of the owner. It could have been a key contributor. I just look at so many opportunities

for proper succession planning that doesn't happen a lot, where a lot of owners will

ride it out until, hey, I got a couple of years left. I got to try and map something out here,

try to make some money back on this after I've invested decades building this thing.

I think the thought process of succession planning can be very scary, but for those that are out

there, I would encourage you to do so. The reason for that is because by doing that, I think you

set up so many opportunities to help that next generation succeed in whether it's proper management

training, it's leadership training. It is just trying to set them up, sending them to a course

on QuickBooks or on some, a lot of the CPAs will put on classes for financial, the financial side

of business. Trying to get whoever that next generation is to understand the business side,

especially if they're coming from the technical side, is something that I think our industry

lacks a lot of because we're really guilty of just throwing somebody to the wolves and saying,

hey, you were good out in the shop. We're going to throw you in that manager's chair. Good luck.

When you think through proper succession planning, I think that's an element that gets

missed a lot is that ramp up. I do think that's something we can learn from corporate America

in that I spent some time in corporate America. Their training programs were phenomenal. They

spent a lot of time training me and I learned so much in a few months that they dedicated to

just basically training me. We see that gap a lot of times in our industry, whether it's through

management or for technicians as we're onboarding technicians, trying to throw them to the wolves

too soon and having them not be successful because we threw them to the wolves too soon.

As you look through this and reflect on your time transitioning in,

was there anything or any bit of advice you'd have for somebody maybe stepping into your shoes,

into taking over a business or maybe advice for that person that's handing the business down?

Absolutely. The number one thing I would love to hope somebody takes away from listening to this

today is if you're a shop owner and it doesn't matter where you're at in that process, if you're

the 500,000 shop or the 5 million shop, you have a great asset. The sweat equity, like you just said,

the 20 years or 10 years or whatever you put into that, that is worth something. That should be

prideful for yourself. This is not an easy industry. We get a lot of flack. People think that it's

just cars. Why didn't you fix it right the first time? What do you mean I have to pay for Diag?

If you've done this for over three years, you've been through it and don't lose that pride and

don't lose ever thinking that this isn't worth something. I don't want to say that it's all

crazy multiples and everything we read in these large sales and such, but I would encourage you

to know that it has a great value and a worth. Here's some examples to think about.

Transitioning to your kids. Sure, maybe you're thinking I'm not doing that great or we've never

done gangbusters or anything, but maybe your kids just needed you to build that platform

and they can go run with it. I don't mean run with it that they have to get to 10 stores.

Maybe they get to two stores or maybe they take your store and they triple the sales in that

store though and they start building a career for themselves and we know it happened. If that

store tripled, you can't tell me the manager is in having a better life, lead technicians aren't

having a better life, you can start supporting and growing better GSs. That ecosystem there is

impacting so many people. I would just encourage them to know that wherever the stage is today,

you have something that is worthwhile to so many people and if it's not a child, I would

so encourage you to think about maybe somebody like us that yes, I would love.

We want to keep acquiring and growing and I think that we do it in a good way and in the

right way, but it could be that lead tech. It could be that manager who's been with you

eight, nine, 12 years and they are 12 years younger than you. Just think about what that

impact would have on their life. I understand maybe your kids are into something different

or you had two daughters that aren't involved or whatnot, but that person now can come into this

business, they have an opportunity, they can really change their family now with it too.

That opportunity I think is so special to this industry because we have such a great runway

in front of us that this is an industry that can't be AI'd out of. This is an industry that

can't just be pushed away. We can go up against Goliath every day of the week with our customer

service, our community involvement. That is why this is such a huge opportunity for whoever's

going to take over from you. Don't forget, this is just, it has so much worth and I'm not saying

money or value. This transition could change someone's life. Don't forget that. It doesn't

have to be PE because they have the most money. I don't want to say any names because I do believe

there's some really good heavy hitting operators out there, but the place that's at 80 that says

they want to get to 250, the place that's at 70 and wants to get to 150, I don't think that those

are horrible options, but I just think we so often hear it and it's so heavily talked about,

we start to think that that's the only option. It's just not, this is, I love this industry so

much. It's changed so many people I see in this industry's life and I don't want that to go away.

I still want people to come in. As I said, three of our four managers were GS's when they started

for us and I know they will tell you, I never thought I'd even be a manager, let alone now

we're getting to a point is we keep growing, we're going to need a district manager. Did any of these

guys when they came to us said, I mean, two of them were maybe 20. One of them was under 20 when

he first started working for us. The other guy I think was about 20, 21. They would be the first

to say, I never thought I would do this and now we're big on promote from within. One of those

guys is going to have to start overseeing a $15 million business. What does that change for

his life? What does that put his trajectory? How well can he support his kids now? Those are the

things I love and I take pride in and I just think there's so much of that in this industry that

doesn't get talked about. Oh my goodness. I couldn't agree more. Everything you were talking about

there, it is about the people and it is about trying to make people's lives better however we

can. I do think it's time for our industry to take a little pride in everything. If it's

not devaluing your worth as a person or as a business, we've got so many talented people in

this industry and so many great businesses that I mentioned our own family shop that if it went

away there would be an extreme pain point in our small community because there's nobody to backfill

that. I look at that as almost like a civic obligation. I'm sure you guys do the same. I

actually read about it on your website, all the philanthropic things that you're doing as a company

for the greater good of your communities and being able to sponsor that little league team or

whatever contributions you're making, it is cool to see the greater good of all of the work that

you're doing. I have to give you guys a huge compliment because going to the website, you have

a phenomenal website, but pointing out some of those philanthropical things that you're doing

for the betterment of just your communities, pretty impressive stuff. That's really cool.

Well, I thank you for that. My dad for sure, my mom has continued it. I feel like we've always

looked at it as if we're just fixing cars, we're not doing enough. That was even from an infancy

stage that they felt that. Now I just look at it as it's our team that allows us to do that. Our

team operates at an efficiency level, a productivity level that we have these extra reserves, we're

able to be profitable and money's never going to make anybody happy. That's something hopefully

anyone can learn sooner or later. Like I said, anytime we've done anything, everything I've

given, I've gotten back tenfold. Right now, for the month of February, we call it wipe out hunger.

When you go to these food banks and you see 14 cars sitting in line waiting for food,

and you see these people come in and they walk around and they're grabbing food,

and they have a smile on their face, and they seem upbeat, and you know that there's just such a

backstory somewhere, that how they are here right now. You just want to pour your heart into that,

that gets me so excited too. That lets me know right of our team's doing the right thing,

that they're doing it right. We shouldn't be embarrassed to charge what we're worth and do

it.

Amen. My goodness, that gave me chills there. That is so cool. All the great work that you're doing,

and it's so authentic when I've talked to you. It's pretty amazing what you're doing. Now,

the other piece that I would talk to somebody that's in that successor type role,

and I think maybe has changed in importance a little bit. I know the difference between my dad

and I in regard to like 20 groups and coaching and all of that, but probably on different ends of

the spectrum here. For that, I know you and I have talked about your involvement in 20 groups and

trying to talk with others in the industry. I just think there's so much power in that piece as well,

right? I've seen second generation groups. I've seen different levels of either coaching or 20

groups or just help, right? I think in a lot of cases, if nothing else, it's very therapeutic

because you can talk to other people in your situation, but then too, you can learn so much

from others in the industry if you open your ears. Talk to me about that, and like coming into the

business, the impact that maybe some of that has had on you and those outside learnings and kind of

looking and seeking for those opportunities. Absolutely. As I said earlier, right? There

is so many resources and tools available right now across the board in any industry, any field

that I would hope anyone could be humble enough and excited about the future enough to say,

me asking for help or me admitting I don't know at all, isn't the failure? The failure would actually

be if I just coasted along and we didn't keep promoting people from within and we didn't give

somebody a reason to show up tomorrow. We couldn't build that, not just create the vision, but build

the vision. At that point, I know it's cliche and I think it's just so true though of like

the five closest people to you are going to set your ceiling. I hate that at times because I don't

want somebody to think like, I got to get rid of my friends or right or I can't hang out with you

anymore or you're this, but I think it's what ecosystem do you spend the most amount of time with

or who do you go to and like you said, when you have a question, when you're curious, when you're

concerned, when you're not sure, who do you go to? It doesn't matter in that sense, right? Who

your friends are, this or that, but who are you getting that advice from? Who are you looking to

to say, have you gone through this? What have you done? Or who are you looking at to be like,

man, they're at this scale. Now it makes this seem a little less risky. It makes this seem

a little less scary. And I think about that all the time of going from one shop to two shop

and now we're looking at going from four shops to five shops,

it feels so different and it feels really less scary at times and less risky. And I think that's

only because of being involved in these types of 20 groups and coaching groups and, you know,

we've had at times an executive coach that is just coaching my mom, myself, my stepdad.

And it, like I said, I think you'd always be humble enough to know that you can never know

at all. And there's always somebody that can help you and help doesn't mean that they're smarter.

It probably means in reality, I would say, if I'm helping somebody, it's probably because I

failed at that three times. And I finally figured it out. That's why I'm able to help you. It's not

because I solved the problem. I just know three ways to not do it. And in that, that you can't get

in a magazine and you can't get that necessarily from a podcast, right? You can get great ideas

and you can get, you know, tips and tricks and it's free. So I think that's great when you're

starting out and when you don't have, you know, true money to invest in improvement in your own

growth. But we talk about how much technician training and all that, back to I said at the

start of this, no business is going to outgrow the owner. You can train your text till they're

in the face. You can train your sales staff. But if you're not growing, you're going to hold them

back at some point. Just absolutely phenomenal advice. I think that growth mindset, regardless

of where you're at in your career, is so important. And as it relates to this conversation, even

for that person that might be selling their shop, having the growth mindset and understanding

maybe acquisition stage, understanding succession as a whole, you know, who to talk to in terms of

legal team or accounting team, you know, there's so many different variables that go into anything

that the more educated you are or the more you educate yourself, the better prepared you're

going to be for whatever life throws your way, right? And so, you know, kind of similar to what

I'm saying there, for those of you looking to hand it to the second generation, my hope is that

we can help set them up for success, right? If you're doing that, and this is something I'll say

that I think when you look at this, and if you're strictly just going for the largest

dollar amount to sell, like I would warn you a little bit, because I think at times that

could end up setting the company up for failure moving forward, really being able to look out

for that next generation and do whatever you can to set them up for success while taking care of

yourself, I really think there's a lot of value in that. And, you know, your mother did a phenomenal

job of doing that with you. I think we need, your mother should actually run a class on that,

I'm thinking, like she did really, really well with you in general. But, you know, I think our

industry could use more of that, right? Of just that understanding and knowledge from both ends

of how we keep these businesses running for generations to come.

Absolutely. I would love to see that. I hope that, you know, again, I don't think that Goliath is all

bad, but I just think I don't want us to lose that that young tech coming in can eventually

become a shop owner, that that, you know, gung-ho ambitious 30-year-old manager really has an

opportunity if somebody's willing to transition him into ownership. And that, I think, again, is

it what makes this industry so special. I absolutely love this conversation.

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Now, we end with some fun questions for you and just three quick-hitting questions.

First one being, what was your first car? My first car, 2006 Ford Fusion.

All right. Reliable, good car. All right. I like that.

Still have it. It has been a shop car since 2013.

We were just looking at our fleet of loaners and our loaners are all

kind of mid-2010 Impalas. They seem to work good for us, but we have pickup and delivery cars

and one of them is still my brother's Mazda from when he was in college.

We were sitting there like, I want to start to look a little peeked. We might need to retire

at here sometime soon, but yeah. What's your favorite food? Favorite food? Ooh. I do love seafood,

so I would say lobster. Lobster, favorite spot to get lobster in Chicago.

Oh, this is honest to truth. We get lobster often times at Costco and my wife,

this is just a shout out to her, she could run a restaurant. She is always trying new things,

new flavors, new ways of cooking it. I would actually say I enjoy just staying home,

we get the kids something and they do. We try and push them into new foods and such.

They'll have a few bites, but usually we'll try and get them with bed a little early.

They're still little. I got three and a five-year-old. Get them to bed a little early.

Mom and dad can have some steak and lobster, maybe a drink,

and just enjoy a night on the patio. Those are some of my favorite.

I agree. My wife is the same way. Phenomenal cook, which is not good for my diet,

but we eat some delicious food. I also love that. Last question,

do you have a common time you wake up in the morning? Do you have a routine set in the morning?

So I do not. I am not a morning person. I think my team probably even knows that,

but I am a night owl to an extent. I do a lot of work certainly after the kids go to bed,

and that's just always in college and even after college. That was always working at nine to 10

30 or something. I just feel like I can crank things out then. I even work out later in the day,

which I think it just complements. My wife is a very morning person.

She's a nutritionist and a gym coach. She does some 5 a.m. classes and things like that,

so it's nice she goes, does that, and then I'll do the evening part.

That is so cool. I'm always fascinated by the answers to that question just because

I think no routine is perfect for anybody. Whatever is best for your lifestyle. I tend to agree with

you. I go through spurts where all of a sudden I'll be up at four o'clock in the morning and

getting to work and just going after it. Then other times I'd rather work at night and I agree

with you that there's a lot of times I think my creative brain works better at night than maybe

maybe some other things. Yeah, I'm all over the board. I'm not the exact same time in the

morning, every morning type of guy, but I just love that question just to get a sense of people's

different routines and how they go about their business. I love it. All right. The last question

I'm going to ask you and this goes away from our quick hitters here, but is this something you

could see your kids pursuing at some point? I do. I do. I think I'd probably go a similar route

to my mom. I would never say like, oh, this is what you're going to do or oh, I'm so excited for

you. Even those little implications and right subtleties I think do play into it. They are

around the shafts probably more. Well, when I was their age, I probably was still around the shafts,

but my daughter loves coming into the one store that we live closest to. I think just back to

my mom being involved, we have a lot of female staff. There's at least one or two female staff

at every shop for sure. The one female service advisor we have at that store, she just loves

kids bubbly and my daughter's name is Charlie. She will go sit next to her name's Maddie. She'll

sit next to Maddie. She'll fake answer the phone. When Maddie's taking notes, she'll be writing

something. Recently, a customer came in and she was just like, oh, and first thing on her mouth

goes, do you need tires? I think the entire, everyone just started laughing. It was great.

She's a natural. Running around the shop, climbing into cars, looking under things.

They're definitely going to be exposed to it. I'm having a ton of fun. Even my moms

having a ton of fun. Selling by no means is even remotely on the radar. I do think back to that

nostalgic point I've always said of late, I would love to get to the point that they could at least

tell me no. I don't need it to be a yes. I don't need it to be this is a great opportunity. I just

want to at least do it long enough or well enough that they can tell me no. Then I know

we can go figure out a different path. Wow. That is incredible. Your story is incredible.

The business is incredible. I just had so much fun over the course of our time talking today.

I feel like I've got a lot in common with you in general, but this was just a fun conversation.

The hour went flying by and just applaud you for everything that you're doing,

that you will continue to do for just running a great business and making your mom proud.

Well, thank you. Yeah, if you're ever in Chicagoland, stop by.

I will do that. Last, last, last question. Are you a Bears fan?

I, it sounds like I might become an Indiana Bears fan after the news.

As a Packer fan, I hate that so much. I want the rivalry and the rivalry will always be there,

but you know, Soldier Field gets a lot of hate. My father-in-law is a Die Hard Bears fan and

used to be a seasoned ticket holder. And so we would go occasionally to Bears games. And I don't

know what it is. I might be the only one, but I always enjoyed Soldier Field. So I, I, I'll be

sad the day that goes away. Yes, I'm very much with you. I actually didn't even want them to go to

Arlington. I just, there's something special about being on the lake, the skyline in the background.

It's beautiful. It's, I'm willing to put up with the, right. It's,

it always feels like there's three bathrooms somehow in that place and you go to the bathroom and

you come back a quarter later and getting a beer is not very, that's true. Yeah. It's just,

it's not set up for these large crowds, but you know, it's also the nostalgic that how old that

stadium is and its roots and everything there. And yeah, I will be sad that it won't be downtown.

I know a lot of the ticket holders and friends that are big fans,

they always complain about the traffic. And I just kind of laugh because I'm like,

we have traffic Tuesday at 10 o'clock in Chicago. Like, when is it?

You're always going to have traffic. Yes. You're always going to have traffic.

I go like, what were we expecting? So, you know, I think it will be sad, but I actually think I

prefer Hammond where they're going over Arlington. All right. It could be very cool. There's going

to be a lot that they can do with it. It's such a blank canvas, I guess, right? That I think that

they have potential to do it right. Are they doing a dome? I would assume they are because

that is another thing that, right, all these owners want to talk about is just how much revenue they

can generate with off season events. Get a Super Bowl. Even just concerts and all that, right?

It's like, you can't have a concert at Soldier Field in January. No, no. It'll be a sad day.

For just even talking with my father-in-law about it, I, again, sentiment and being

just to have so many memories there that it'll be sad to see it go away. But,

Baban, what a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Hope we get to do it again sometime

and just keep doing what you're doing. You're doing an amazing job.

Oh, we'll appreciate that. And same to you guys with Wrenchway and the shops and everything. I love

it too. So, I think it's two-way street always in this industry. There's so much good happening,

and we should all be really prideful of that. Love it. Well, thanks again.

Awesome. Take care.

That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode,

please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video

interviews on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, Beyond the Wrench is

managed and produced by the Wrenchway team. Wrenchway is dedicated to promoting and

improving careers in the automotive, diesel, and collision industries. In partnership with ASE,

we run the ASE Connects community, which empowers shops and dealerships with reliable data,

school connections, and industry insights while helping grow the future technician workforce.

You can learn more by visiting Wrenchway.com. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.

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