Tesla Owners Turning Away, Porsche Shifts on EVs, Ferrari's 849 Testarossa

I'm Hannah Elliott. And I'm Matt Miller. This is Hot Pursuit.

Coming up on today's podcast, why are Tesla owners leaving the brand? The reasons go beyond

what you're thinking. It's not just about Elon Musk.

Course correction, Porsche, the latest car maker reassessing its EV strategy.

And rave reviews for Ferrari's latest, the 849 Testarosa, but can it really justify a half

million dollar price tag? And would anyone give it a bad review? I would give it a bad review if

it was bad. True. I don't know anybody anything. By the way, that's what I love about you and

always loved about you, right? No joke. I was looking at the reviews and we'll get into it in

a little bit, but I was thinking you want the next Ferrari, so you're not going to give this one a

bad review, but you would. Oh, I would. I don't care. All right, that's all ahead on Hot Pursuit.

Welcome to the program. Lots to get to this week. But first, I want to kick things off with Hannah's

latest reporting. It's been weeks. This column has been weeks in the making of the story. It has

lots of lawyering and layers and it's all about Tesla. Yes. Well, we have to. Yeah. Right. We want

to make sure we get it. We are accurate and fair. So tell us about your story. First, give us the

headline and the gist of it before we get into the lawyer part. Sure. So the headline is Elon Musk

alone can't explain Tesla's owner exodus. And the genesis of this story honestly was when we saw

results from 2025 and saw that BYD had surpassed Tesla as the global best seller of EVs. And that

sort of catapulted us into looking at why is Tesla losing customers? Bloomberg had some reporting

by the great Kyle Stock in 2022 that already addressed our Denver reporter, our Denver

correspondent. Yes, our man in Denver. He had written this great story in 2022 about how Tesla

was really a vulnerability for Porsche customers and was rather polarizing. And that was backed up

by some brand loyalty studies back then and also anecdotally with customers. So that was great

reporting. For this piece, we acknowledge that, but we wanted to really focus on people who had

owned Teslas, even though they might have been uncomfortable with Elon, or maybe they were Elon

fans, people who own them for a while. And then all of a sudden just decided, no, I'm not going to

pretty nuanced story about, okay, we knew about Elon, he's polarizing, we get it. But what are the

other reasons that people who especially initially loved the cars are now leaving the brand? And it

was very interesting to talk to them. And I spoke with quite a few people. And in the end, they all

said very sort of mundane things that added up into them leaving the brand. There wasn't one big

really moment. It was a combination of factors. But this is other than Elon Musk, because surely

a number of people have said I can't deal with his politics. I don't like his tweeting. I think he's

a racist, sexist, bigot, or whatever their issues were with him. And by the way, I'm not saying

that he is those things. These are the complaints from certainly from the left.

But you're saying in the collection of other reasons that people would switch from Tesla to

either another EV or even to a gas vehicle, there wasn't one heavy hitter.

There's not one big thing. And we should also say, look, there is a broader slowdown in EVs

worldwide. Growth of electric vehicles is expected to slow in 2026. And it has slowed the

previous few years. So it's we're seeing it just a gradual slowdown. Obviously, the loss of tax

credits, the end of emission waivers, there are loss of revenues for carbon credits, diminished

aftermarket values, China in general, there are lots of things plus the lack of infrastructure,

which we've seen. All of these have contributed to people leaving EVs in general, that's not

specific to Tesla. But one thing that has really affected Tesla is it has really lost its first

mover advantage in two ways. The first one is that now there are over 100 electric vehicles

on the market today from every major automotive and a lot of minor automotive brands. So when

Tesla debuted the Roadster in 2006 and then delivered it in 2008. And when it debuted the Model S in

2012, it was the only only game in town. Now that is not the case. There are so many more options

and people have realized that they realize that if I want to drive an EV, I don't have to stick

with Tesla. The other thing that Tesla is really specifically struggling against is their older

and aging portfolio of cars. This actually is not an accident. And Matt, I know you know all

about this. Tesla is kind of becoming a robotics company. And we've seen Tesla, well, we see SpaceX

and X AI merge. That was big news this week. I'm sure you spoke about it on your show.

And there's even talk that Tesla could eventually merge with one or both of those companies as well.

I imagine it will. It's inevitable, frankly. Because Elon Musk has a trillion-dollar pay

package and one of the criteria he has to meet in order to get that money, a trillion dollars,

think of it, is to enlarge the market capitalization of Tesla to eight and a half trillion dollars.

And right now it's at one and a half trillion dollars. And SpaceX and X AI combined are worth

about one and a half trillion. That's what we would expect in an IPO. So it's a no-brainer.

You put those together when you're looking for scale, right? It's just a question of how and when.

And Elon has also said that Optimus, which is their humanoid robot, eventually is going to

comprise 80% of Tesla's value. So he's already said, we're moving into this robotic thing.

Now, a couple analysts that I spoke with did say if Tesla actually comes out with real self-driving,

not the full self-driving, that is not full self-driving. If they really do come out with

fully autonomous driving, they will recapture a lot of consumers because that is really why

people buy Tesla's today. They're buying a software mule. So if Tesla can do that and

they are working on the cyber cab, of course, and all of these autonomous driving technologies,

then it will probably regain quite a lot of consumers.

You have to imagine that Optimus, the idea, the promise of a robot, the promise of autonomous

vehicles is almost all of Tesla's market cap because they're worth one and a half trillion

dollars. And after Tesla, the biggest company, car maker in the world, is in terms of market

cap Toyota, which is $375 billion. So only a fraction of that, then you get to GM is only $75

billion. Volkswagen, with all of the brands that we love so much, Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti,

Ducati, Audi, Skoda, they're only a 50 billion euro company. It's crazy that Tesla's worth

one and a half trillion and that's all the promise of some future. To get back to why people would

switch out. I'm curious of people who have been Tesla devotees or Tesla drivers. Do most of them

go to other EVs? Yeah, that's what I would thought because once you go EV, you don't typically go

back to gas. Exactly. And that's according to S&P Global Mobility, more than two thirds of

customers who leave Tesla go to another EV. There are a few who told me that they missed

the tangible feel and tactile experience of combustion engines, but most stay in the EV area.

And the sound, right? You interviewed somebody who went to a Porsche Panamera and said,

I don't care if it's slower, I like the sound. Yeah, this guy I think was probably a closet

Porsche fan in the end because he did say I don't care if it's slower. But he also told me, again,

I really did love the Tesla when I first got it. He got a 2013 model, so it was super early.

But in the end, it just felt like an old laptop that took forever to boot up. And he's like,

we just had a baby, my wife's in the parking lot. I didn't want her alone with our baby

in a parking lot waiting for the car to boot up. That's weird. Yeah, and I don't blame him. But

yeah, according to... I can't be the case of the new Tesla, right? I don't think so. But

for him, it was enough. And I think it's telling that he switched to something combustion.

I say, I haven't driven a Tesla since probably 2016 was the last time I drove one. And I was

always impressed by the low center of gravity and obviously the instant acceleration. People

think that one of the main complaints about our podcast is that they say we're anti-EV,

which isn't true. That's not true at all. I'm very much pro. I love EV trucks. I love the EV G

wagon. I love the Porsche Taycan. I can't stop thinking about the Porsche Taycan. I constantly

am thinking about it. Wow. To be inside your mind. Well, we're going to talk about Porsche

in a second. When I saw the headline that they were considering axing EV sports cars,

that headline was referring to the 718. But I thought for a moment they were considering

axing the Taycan. And I was all of a sudden freaking out because I could imagine the used

values jumping. And I just really enjoy driving that car. But the thing is, I just don't really

have access to Tesla press cars. I've never been offered a Tesla press car. But also,

they're not that different than they were in 2016. Right. When the Cybertruck truck came out in 2023,

I actually rented it on Turro for our press review. Because, yeah, they don't give out,

they don't give out press cars. Yeah, but I'm not going to pay $1,000 a day.

You can expense it. It's research, Matt. Put it on the corporate card. Come on.

Fair. It is definitely. But to your point, yeah, I agree. First of all, they haven't had any brand

new models since the Cybertruck. So why would you have anything new to drive? You wouldn't.

Second of all, they don't have a fleet for the press. So yeah, it's tricky.

Well, in the model, the one model that I love, the Model S is now dead. They're.

Yeah, I know. Discontinued. And I think that's the most elegant,

most timeless design that France, Farnholzhausen, and Tesla have achieved.

That's the one that changed it all. Really. Yeah. All right, cool. Well, great story on Tesla. I

do want to get to the Porsche story. So when we come back, we'll talk about

the Stuttgart-Suffenhausen automaker pulling the plug, making some difficult decisions.

That's all ahead on Hot Pursuit.

Welcome back to Hot Pursuit. This week, we learned that Porsche may be reconsidering

its all electric models, or one specifically in Hannah. Like I said, when I saw this headline

across the terminal, I was on my live program, so I was doing other news and somebody in my team

sent me the headline and I kind of lost the plot for a second because I was so worried

that my beloved Taycan that they would stop producing that. Turns out they were talking

about the 718. 718, which I feel like they really, really drag their heels on for as long as possible

because they don't need it, right? They don't need it. They don't need an electric 718.

I don't know. I don't think anyone's asking for it. I really don't. It's really interesting to me

because having spent some time in the gas version of the Boxster and the Cayman, and I'm sure you

have as well, they have this reputation as the driver's car or the track day car, right? Because

it's the mid-engine. Yeah, exactly. And you could always get a stick. You can still get a stick

with those. And because it's kind of like a momentum car, right? It's not like

shockingly fast out of the gate. You get the revs up and you're hanging around the corners.

But I thought the idea of an electric version would be interesting because then you do get that

blistering quickness 0 to 60. And also, it's fun to drive a small electric car because of that

instant torque and because of the low center of gravity, you can really push it around a corner.

But obviously, I wouldn't have wanted one. You know what the crazy thing is? I've driven the

electric Fiat, but there really aren't small electric cars. Right, because batteries are so

heavy. Right. There aren't two-door sports electric cars. And I understand why maybe you think of

this would fill a hole. I mean, the Model 3 is pretty small, right? The Tesla Model 3. But still

a four-door sedan. True. It's no sports car. They had the Roadster at one point, and I'm guessing

you could get an electric Lotus, right? Yeah. Barry Ritholtz converted his 911

to an electric. I think that is so outdated, by the way. I think that is so... I think now that

electric vehicle sales are slowing and people are realizing we don't have to have them.

Yeah. That's going to be so 2024. There's this company Everati, right? They make

electrified versions of... There are many companies that make electrified versions.

I know. I know. But this one, it's been popping up in my socials. And also,

we've been talking to some of the representatives. They make four different, at least four different

models that they offer. A 911, and different variations of that. A Mercedes, like a Pagoda,

right? A Land Rover, like a classic Land Rover, and oddly a GT40 Mark II. And I was looking at

their website. They have a really cool website. And if you're into that kind of thing, check it out.

I was thinking the Pagoda and the Land Rover make sense because they're big,

heavy vehicles that never were fast. A Pagoda is not a big, heavy vehicle.

Well, okay. But it's... It's small. I think relative to its competition, it was fairly heavy

because of the sort of over-engineering of Mercedes. And even the electric version,

it says zero to 60 in less than seven seconds. Whereas the other ones, like the electric 911s

they make are four seconds. In any case, the Pagoda's never been a quick. It's not a speedster,

you know? So anyway, it made sense to me, but the GT40 Mark II doesn't make any sense to me.

And the Porsche 911, like what you want with a 911, to me, the turbo doesn't even make sense

with a 911. Because what I want is to stretch out, to wring out the engine, to have it revving,

seven, 8,000 RPMs. And that's not... I can't get behind it. I have not heard great things about

these cars. They are so expensive, plus the cost of the donor car. I don't hear anybody asking for

these. They're removing the best thing about the Porsche. Like no one is asking for it.

In any case, so Porsche now is going to... Or considering, we should say, and this is reporting

by Monica Raymont in Berlin. And she has been following, studying, profiling Michael Lyters,

the new CEO of Porsche for many, many months. In fact, I remember when we went to Le Mans last

summer, she was like, hey, is Michael Lyters going to be there? Because she was already stocking him.

So they're considering axing the EV718. I feel like that's a trial balloon they've floated to

tell the market like we're axing it. Do you care? For sure. And anyone paying attention

already knew that they were going to do that a year ago. I wonder those... We saw it.

Do they bring back the gas versions? Because they're still on the website. You can go on the

website and configure a number of different variations of Cayman and Boxter. Well, that's

a good question. And I see here, the reporting says that deliberations to add a plug-in hybrid,

basically, and this makes sense, would have only complicated things because that car would

require different underpinnings, which would put Porsche at risk of introducing older technology

in a new product, which you never want that. So they're kind of caught between a rock and a

hard place here. I get it. And at what point do you cut your losses? You've gone for years in one

direction. To me, okay, I feel like if you get one of these cars, if you're getting a Cayman,

especially if you're a track person, you probably are more of a purist. Totally. You know what?

Every pro driver I like out on the track, I'll be like, hey, what do you think of the Cayman?

They all love it. It's perfectly balanced. It's really fun. It's very predictable. They love it.

Right. Like Eric, the jazz musician who has a place. Chris Bodie. Chris Bodie. Sorry, Eric.

Why do I always think Eric Bodie? Chris Bodie has a... He told us that he got a GT3,

but he wanted to go back into the GT4. In any case, I would think purists are down for that.

But you know that I love the hybrid sports cars. You always have. And I think you're

about that. I love the Corvette E-Ray. They put an electric motor on the front axle. They have

the 6.2 liter V8 driving the rear. I just picked up a 2026 AMG E53 hybrid wagon. Thank you, Mercedes

Benz. Cool. And it's the same thing. They have their inline six motor, the gas motor with the

turbocharger, and they have an electric motor adding power. I think it's the best of both worlds.

To me, it makes sense. I love it. You've always said it. And sometimes I like raise an eyebrow,

but I think you're really right. I think at this point, hybrid technology makes a lot of

sense for a lot of things. And you know, this is slightly off topic, but not really. I don't

understand why if we want to save the world, why can't we start in the US with public transport?

Oh, no, I totally agree. And trains, like in Europe. I mean, there's no public transport

across, no usable. I'm like, I don't, I still don't see how. Even for car people, it would be a huge

draw because, okay, when I, you know, I bought a GLS from Galpin in LA. And it would have been fun

to fly out to LA, drive it around a little bit, and then put it on a train with me, you know?

And like, you can do that still in Europe. If I want to go ride motorcycles in Italy,

but I'm living in Berlin, I can just go to Hanover, put the bike on a train, get an overnight car,

and wake up in Verona, take my bike off the train and go to around, you know, the apps. And that

way I avoid the five hour like autobahn trip from Berlin to Munich. That nobody really wants to do.

No one wants to do that. No, not with the speed cameras. So it's not fun. Exactly. So yeah,

I think I love train travel by itself, by the way. I really enjoy getting on a train. I went and

picked up a motorcycle that I bought in Virginia. And remember, I tried to fly down there, but my

flight was canceled. I know. And then a week later, I didn't even ride back in one night or

something. I didn't make that mistake again. I got a train ticket and I had a really nice time.

I got on the train, I had my laptop, I watched a MotoGP race, I had a launch, and it was relaxing

and no stress of the airport. I know, obviously, this is a big country. It's a huge undertaking,

but I just think this is a very easy way to eliminate cars on the road.

Yeah. But wait, what makes you think of that? Why do you?

To be honest, the California has been dealing with a lot of talking about how money has been

misappropriated away from doing public transport and high speed rail and all of this as we go into

the Olympics. So there's a lot of talk about why don't we have more of it? Where have all these

budget earmarks gone? So it's just on my mind. And then I saw a map on Instagram,

I admit. I saw a map showing all of the train paths in Europe and then all of the train paths

in the US. And it's like when the first photo is completely black with train tracks and the

other is completely empty. It's pretty crazy. I mean, there are some, I guess in California,

there must be more train travel like north to south, right? You can take a train from San

Francisco to San Diego, Kenya. And in Florida, there's a new private train line, Bright Line,

that goes from like Tampa to Miami. I'm taking that next week. I'm going to take the kids to

Disney in Orlando, obviously. And then we're going to get on a train and go down to Fort

Lauderdale where we get on a Disney cruise. So, and apparently it's very nice. The problem with

the trains in Florida is that they keep killing people. Because as Americans, we're not used to

crossings, for example. We don't want to put up the gates. People try and drive through them

anyway. Florida, Florida. Don't try it. Don't try it, Florida. Now, wait, how long is this cruise?

I think it's a four-day cruise. I'm a little bit worried, but I hear positive things about,

I've never been on a big commercial cruise. Me neither. And I don't ever want to go on one.

I don't think I want to. It's nice that you're doing this for your family. It's for the girls.

All right. So, the one thing about Porsche that I wonder is, the 718, maybe no one wanted one

and electric and no one's going to get one electric. But one of the biggest blemishes on

Porsche's record so far this year has been the electric Cayenne, right? I mean, that's what got

the worst backlash on social media. Have you driven it yet? The electric Cayenne?

I'm going to be honest and say I don't remember. No, I think you would remember.

Did you drive the electric Macan? Yes. I haven't driven either one, but I know

that it's been out and Matt Farah ordered one and I think owns one as a daily. He likes electric

cars. He liked the Mustang Mach-E. Yeah, he does really like Triumph. He does put in the work on

them, doesn't he? Yeah. So, it'll be interesting to see how those sales go because they're

money makers, right? These are the high volume. Completely like depending on whether it's the

US or the rest of the world. Yeah, these are their best sellers. It'll be interesting to see how that

goes. I don't think I drove an electric Macan. I think the reason why I don't remember is because

I have not. Yeah, no, I don't think. Yeah. Electric Cayenne. I think you must have driven the electric

Macan, right? I have driven the electric Macan. That, for sure, I drove last year. But didn't

make a huge impression on you, obviously. No, I'm looking at the review. Yes, I drove it. I think

it was good. According to my review, it was good. It was in copper ruby metallic. I do remember this

car, but I haven't driven the Cayenne. Right now, there's a green Ferrari 456 on bring a trailer.

And one of the things I love about BAT is a lot of times old journalists will get on there and

comment and some guy under their real names. Yeah. Yeah. And a journalist who test drove that car

when it first came out, like one of the first ones in America in the comment section wrote like

he's never going to forget driving this car for the first time and he went back and looked at his

slides and looked at his old story and yes. And that's true. That car made a mark on this man.

And I'm saying the electric Macan did not make a mark on you. That's right. That is accurate. And I

can totally relate to that. And maybe this is a little known secret, but when you do drive so many

cars, honestly, you have sometimes you have to go back and look and be like, did I drive that car?

This goes back to my whole thing with so many cars are appliances, especially premium SUVs.

Let's just be honest. They are. There are a lot of cars that I really do remember. I really remember

the 992.1. I really remember that car. I really remember the Roma. I really remember the electric

G-Wagon. Yep. You know, like there are some of that. Huge fan. I'm a huge fan, by the way. Me too.

I was blown away. So it's not just about it being electric because I do remember I remember driving

in the Model S like in 2012. I remember those. Maybe by the way, maybe the Cayenne is successful

as an EV because in my experience, big SUVs and trucks are great platforms for an EV powertrain.

It just seems to work so well on these huge people movers or haulers. I love the G-Class

with an EV powertrain and I love the GMC Sierra with an EV powertrain. And I love the

Escalade, the electric Escalade. And I know you did not like it, but I remember that very specifically.

Like, yes, there's a use case for sure. All right. Well, when we come back, we're going to talk about

more about Ferrari because the Testarosa is back. But can anyone really justify the price tag,

especially in a world where nowadays when you drive a Ferrari off the lot, they tend to depreciate

really quickly. We'll have that discussion after this.

Welcome back to Hot Pursuit. I've been seeing some very positive reviews. Well, I've only seen two

reviews actually of the 849 Testarosa. And before we get into what they said or what we expect,

I have to say, Hannah, my first thought was when Ferrari gives you a car as like the first

journalist to drive it in America, they do it because they know you're going to write a positive

review, don't they? I think they certainly hope so. Right. Well, and I always defend journalists

who write positive reviews all the time by saying, look, it's a brand new car that costs hundreds

of thousands of dollars. Like, it's going to be a great experience for anyone that gets to ride

in it for a few days. For sure. It's nice. I don't think there's anything wrong with writing,

if something is really good, you should write that it's good. That's the whole point people

want to know. You're serving the reader, you're serving the consumer. But by the same token,

if something is not good, you should also say that it's not being mean. It's not hurting the car's

feelings. You just should say whatever the reality is. So for me, the problem is the way it looks,

because it doesn't look good. You don't like it. It's ugly. And it's not as ugly as the SF90,

or maybe that's ugly sounds like a harsh word. You don't like, or is it the whole,

is it those wings on the back, those two things? It's the different colored panels,

and I think it actually looks better in yellow, and I don't love yellow as a color.

I'm with you on that. I totally agree. It's just, I've never been, I wasn't a fan of the original

Testerosa. Oh, are you kidding me? With the straight lines on the side. I love the original

Testerosa. Not into it. White one? Cocaine white? Yes. Cocaine white. Yes. And I'm not a fan of this

one, but I imagine with the V8, and as we were talking about earlier, the hybrid powertrain,

it's probably an amazing car to drive, because it's still a Ferrari. Yeah, I mean, I haven't driven

this car, so I, but you drove the SF90. Yes. And that was an incredible car, like the best possible

use case for a hybrid. I thought it was beautiful. Truly, it's a great example of Ferrari tiptoeing

into electric cars without just throwing everything away. I loved it, and we should also say all of

this is in the context of they're going to be debuting their first ever fully electric car

by the end of this year or so. By the way, everybody else is doing these hybrids too,

like Lamborghini has the Temerario. I haven't driven it, but I can't wait to.

They have the Revuelto, which you liked other than the speeding tickets. Absolutely loved.

That you got. It was worth it, honestly. Corvette has not only the E-Ray, but the

ZR1-X, in which they electrify that. So it's like a ton of supercars or hypercars are using

hybrid platform. Now, we should talk about the interior. Did you see the interior photos for

this? What did you think of it? I mean, I like it. It's lacking a stick. It's only got two pedals,

and I've talked to the CEO, Ferrari Benedetto Vigna, about this. I think it's a huge mistake.

I get what they're doing. They're tech forward, so they put supercomputers at all four corners

to control the suspension, and they want the shifts to be less than milliseconds.

But I feel like at this price point, and it's like 600 grand, the buyer is, by definition,

at that point an enthusiast and is going to want, is going to prefer, frankly,

a manual transmission. That's what you see with the GT3, right? The take rate is huge.

So I think that Ferrari makes a huge mistake in not doing that.

So how much horsepower does this car have in the end? Do you know offhand?

It's 819 horsepower at 7,500 RPM and 621 pound-feet.

Honestly, the idea of shifting that much power for most drivers is kind of insane,

I think. That's a lot. That's what their engineers, when they're giving excuses to why they can't

or don't offer a manual transmission, they say it's because of that. But you can get a hellcat

with a stick in it, and you can get, there is, what's that supercar that was just shown at

Retromobile? It has 900 horsepower and a stick shift, and they're only making 20 of them.

I'm just looking through my messages because I sent you a message about it last week.

I will say, while you're looking that up, this is a full-range model. It doesn't have a production

limit, and I do think that is cool because, theoretically, you could buy one. Obviously,

you probably have to buy a few other Ferraris ahead of it, but I do like that.

I don't think you have to do that anymore, right?

What do you mean?

I don't think you have to line up and buy the cheaper ones before you get the good one.

Also, this isn't a 12-cylinder, but at this point, the SF-90, I've seen one with only 200 miles

go for over $100,000 under MSRP. I saw one with 1,600 miles go for, I think, $250,000 below MSRP.

That doesn't bother me at all.

No, but I'm just saying, you don't have to wait for a Ferrari. They're on the lots.

They have inventory, and they'll sell anybody who has the money, the car now.

Where are you getting this info? Who are you talking to?

At Bring a Trailer, you constantly see SF-90s and Superfast, A12s, and other cars there.

I hear from dealers that even the 12-cylindry is one where they first said,

we're going to send you an allotment of, let's say, a dozen, and now, actually, it's 36.

Another great car. I would buy that car in a heartbeat.

I think they're looking at real depreciation as soon as they leave the lot, and I think

they're asking too much, again, for a rolling computer when somebody wants a piece of art.

That's interesting, but then I go back to every single auction that we've had since

the start of the year, whether it's Meekum in Florida or Retromobile in Paris or

like Bonham, Broad Arrows online. The headliners on all of them are Ferraris.

But which ones?

For instance, in Meekum, 2003 Ferrari Enzo went for almost $18 million. F-50, 1995 F-50 went for

$12 million. Another Enzo sold for $11 million. The online Bonham sale saw a 288 GTO go for about

$10 million. Saw a 2018 FXS EVO without reserve go for over $9 million. I mean, some of those are

pretty recent cars. They reported, let's see, I'm just looking through the results, 94 512

specials sold for over $800,000. I mean, of Broad Arrows online auction, five of the top 10 top

sellers this year were Ferraris. I'm not worried in the least. If they're down, they're going to

pop back up, no problem.

You have a good point. Like Steve Sirio said, there was a time when somebody would see an Enzo

and say, that's a car for footballers' lives. It's not for real collectors. And now they obviously

are. That was Andrew Hall. And then you go to RM Sotheby's, their European auction, January 28th.

I'm looking, they saw another 2004 Enzo. Enzo's are really the thing, go for almost $10 million.

But those are 12 cylinders. You think someday an SF-90 is going to go for a lot more than MSRP?

I do. In the next 30 years or in the next 50 years?

No, 30. Less than 30. I think less than 30.

Interesting.

Yes, I do. And I am doing a story right now in the collecting market. So I'm talking to a lot of

people at the moment. And oh, and I also spoke with David Lee, the guy who bought the GTO.

Did you ask him if he could join our podcast?

No, but I will. I'm sure he will.

Okay, I will.

By the way, are those all those cars you mentioned, some of them must have automatic

transmissions, right? The Enzo NF-1.

Sure. I honestly, I don't think the new buyer cares. I really...

That's so weird.

I don't. We are already on the old side of things.

Also, as you know, and as I say all the time, I have very little experience driving cars in this

stratosphere. I haven't spent very much time in any Ferraris or, well, I have spent a lot of

time in Lamborghinis, but...

You have sort of, you kind of are a Lamborghini.

Yeah, and the transmission doesn't bother me at all.

Yeah, my favorite transmission in a Lamborghini is the super clunky agricultural transmission

in the Aventador.

But I hear from a lot of people that drive the Alfa Romeo 4Cs that they actually like,

they prefer the transmission, the non-manual transmission that it has because they say it

fits, it's more fitting to the character of the car.

I get that, sure.

I get it.

The super car I was thinking of was the Capricorn. Did you see this?

Whoa, I know. I sent you...

How did I miss this?

I sent you a link.

I genuinely miss that.

It's called...

Hold on.

It's like a German built car with an Italian stylist and they showed them at a couple of

car shows. They're just at Retromobile.

Hold on.

But this is a 12-cylinder car with 900 horsepower and it's got a manual transmission.

Okay, it's 3 million euros.

They're only building 19.

Oh, that's kind of pretty.

But I'm saying...

Yo, I love it.

Oh, that's a color.

But I'm saying like, it's a lie that too much torque makes manual transmissions impossible.

Okay, okay. I hear you.

That's a nice little car.

It has a harsh term.

In this day and age, I don't think you're allowed to say someone lied.

I was told that I'm not allowed to use the word dumb in print.

Oh, really? Dumb?

Yeah, yeah.

Unless you're talking about someone who can't speak.

Doesn't have the power of speech.

Well, even that, you know, you should say they're speaking disabled or something.

Oh.

I don't know.

No, I just said...

I just got a note recently on one of my pieces that said, you know,

be careful how you use the word dumb.

Oh, I was hanging on.

I was dumb to say that Capricorn was a V12.

It's actually a 5.2 liter supercharged V8.

Oh, does that lower it in your estimation?

No, it looks gorgeous.

I would love to try it out and drive it.

And I have an historic love for 5.2 liter V8s because a lot of Ford Mustangs have that set up.

That makes sense.

I just want to say back to the Ferrari thing, and to put a pin on my point,

I saw this data from DuPont Registry of the top 10 sales at the retro-mobile sales in Paris.

Ferrari was seven of the 10 highest transactions across four auction.

So across everything, all of the sales.

Ferrari was seven of the 10 highest.

And that included EVOs and track-only cars and modern halo cars.

So I understand, yeah, the price drops when you drive it up a lot.

But I think if you're someone who has a little bit of patience, that's not a problem.

Well, I'm just thinking of like a GT3.

If I get a GT3 touring or a GT3 with a Visoc package or whatever,

I don't know who wants that kind of monstrosity.

But if I get a 911 ST, you know?

Or if I got a 911 R, which would have been my absolute dream, any of those cars,

I drive them off the lot, I list them on bring a trailer, and I instantly make one or 200 grand.

Like boom, the demand is there now.

And they're so exclusive that you're not getting them for even 10 or 20 or 30% above MSRP.

That's not the case with Ferraris.

Certainly not with the SF90.

Interesting point.

And maybe not with the 849 Testrosa.

And I don't know the market as well as you and Steve.

And obviously Ferrari always tops the list of the highest money cars at auctions.

But I feel like something is changing as they put an extra thousand microchips

in the newest Ferrari and completely shirk off the idea of letting the driver have a more engagement.

Well, let me ask you this, and this takes us back to our middle segment.

Do you think Porsche is going to start to have a dip in values as a sort of latent reaction

to everything that's happening within the corporate structure of the company?

I have thought about this a lot.

And I don't imagine that the 911 is affected by those things.

Even though the 911 has similar issues and it's always getting bigger,

it's maybe a little bit heavier, but not that much.

It's much more computerized.

They're pushing away from manual transmissions like you can only get.

I think the T is now the only car that you can get a manual in.

But there's so much demand.

There's rabid demand.

People who fawn over the 1971 IROC 911 are also praising a new GT3 Weissach,

which I don't understand how that same person likes both cars.

But people just love anything they do with the 911.

And that's not the case with the F cars right now.

This I could talk.

Yes.

I'm very curious how this goes for Bentley.

And you should start watching Bentley, Matt.

Because Bentley has Porsche's old motorsport boss, as you know.

Frank Steffen Walliser.

And of course, as you know, Bentley has recently put out drifting videos.

They have recently put out a super sports version of their Continental.

They are at ice races with that are sponsored by Porsche.

And I see Bentley sort of doing the Porsche blueprint.

And I wonder how that is going to translate for Bentley number one.

But also, is it ultimately working for Porsche in the long, long, long run?

Maybe it is.

I honestly don't know the answer to that.

But I'm watching it unfold.

I think one of the benefits of a Porsche, even though Nathan Merz kind of pushed back

on this a little bit, but one of the benefits of a Porsche is that they just don't break very much.

And even an older one, if you're going to have to obviously make certain repairs,

replace certain hoses, gaskets, I get it.

And maybe a transmission or brake rotors.

But for the most part, they still work 10 years later, 20 years later, 30 years later,

40 years later, 50 years later.

The problem with Bentley has been since the 80s that if you pick up one on the used market

and you think you got a good deal, wait till you see the repair bill.

I mean, you can get one for 30, 50, 70 grand, but it's going to cost you two or three times

that much to get it into running order.

And it's going to constantly need money.

And you're going to constantly need a team of mechanics to fix it.

That's something that Frank Steffen Wallister has to change at Bentley.

And if he does, I could see massive upside for that brand.

And I imagine that he wants to, because he must know that as well.

Sure, yeah.

All right, that does it for this week's show.

Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere you listen.

You can also send us your comments.

We do love to read and respond to your emails.

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So do I.

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And you can check out my columns and stories on Bloomberg.com

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I'm Hannah Elliott.

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