Blair, a passionate car enthusiast with a love for manual transmissions and lightweight sports cars, seeks advice on his next vehicle under $100k that balances daily usability with occasional track use. The hosts discuss the challenge of finding the perfect driving experience, touching on analog versus synthetic driving feel, the impact of modern electronic assists, and the evolving nature of sports cars. The conversation also explores brand preferences, the importance of engagement, and the nuances of steering feedback, with insights from an automotive engineer adding depth to the debate.
Modern performance cars are quicker, smarter, and more capable than ever.
So why do so many enthusiasts feel like something’s missing?
In this episode of Full Throttle Talk, we dive into one of the most important conversations in modern car culture:
Have we optimized performance so much… that we’ve optimized away emotion?
Drive-by-wire.
Brake-by-wire.
Electronic steering.
Software-shaped torque and sound.
At what point did cars stop being machines we operate — and start becoming systems that manage the experience for us?
We welcome Blair Smith as the newest voice on Full Throttle Talk and are joined by Shinoo Mapleton to explore:
• What “analog” really means
• Whether lightweight engineering is nostalgia — or philosophy
• If software enhances engagement or simulates it
• And whether modern performance cars feel alive… or engineered
From Ariel Atom and Caterham Seven to Lotus Elise, GR86, and Alpine A110 — we examine the machines still fighting for mechanical honesty in a software-defined world.
If you care not just about how fast a car is — but how it makes you feel — this conversation is for you.
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👉 FullThrottleTalk.com
"Welcome to full throttle talk the podcast where horse power meets conversation from supercars to classic legends high revving tech to motorsport mayhem"
Motorsport means racing cars or bikes in competitions to see who is the fastest or best driver.
Motorsport refers to competitive racing involving motor vehicles, including cars and motorcycles. It encompasses various disciplines like Formula 1, rallying, and endurance racing.
"...uld consider the unicorn car of unicorn cars and Audi R8. I did yeah I'm a thanks for the lead in you des..."
The Audi R8 is a very fast and special car with its engine in the middle. It’s made to be both exciting and comfortable to drive every day. Many people think it’s a rare and amazing car.
The Audi R8 is a mid-engine supercar known for combining exotic performance with everyday usability. It features a powerful V10 engine and Quattro all-wheel drive, making it a versatile and fast sports car. The R8 is often considered a 'unicorn' due to its blend of luxury and supercar performance.
"...ind myself currently something to pair next to my e46 m3 which is kind of that taproot first love auto..."
The BMW 3 Series is a popular car that many people like because it’s fun to drive and feels nice inside. It’s a bit sporty but also comfortable, making it good for everyday use. The older E46 model is especially loved by car fans for being really enjoyable to drive.
The BMW 3 Series is a compact executive car known for its balanced performance and luxury. It has been a benchmark in the sports sedan segment and is often praised for its driving dynamics. The E46 generation, in particular, is highly regarded by enthusiasts as a classic and engaging driver's car.
"...myself currently something to pair next to my e46 m3 which is kind of that taproot first love automot..."
The BMW M3 is a sportier and faster version of the regular BMW 3 Series. It’s made to be really fun to drive and goes faster than normal cars. The E46 M3 is a special older model that many people love because it feels very exciting to drive.
The BMW M3 is the high-performance version of the 3 Series, renowned for its powerful engines and sharp handling. The E46 M3 is particularly celebrated for its naturally aspirated inline-six engine and balanced chassis, making it a favorite among driving enthusiasts. It represents a significant chapter in BMW's motorsport heritage.
"...go well so for 100k you can buy a really nice old 911 you can buy a really well done 914 so it's too o..."
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that looks unique because its engine is in the back. It’s known for being very fast and fun to drive. Older models are popular because they give a classic car feeling and can be a good investment.
The Porsche 911 is an iconic sports car known for its distinctive design and rear-engine layout. It has a long history of performance and engineering excellence, making it a highly sought-after classic and modern sports car. Older 911s offer a blend of classic driving experience and collectible value.
"...ally nice old 911 you can buy a really well done 914 so it's too old what are you looking for well wha..."
The Porsche 914 is an older sports car with its engine in the middle, which helps it drive well. It’s not as famous as other Porsches but is still fun and can be cheaper to buy. People like it because it feels balanced when driving.
The Porsche 914 is a mid-engine sports car produced in collaboration with Volkswagen during the 1970s. It offers a unique driving experience with balanced handling but is often overshadowed by other Porsche models. Well-maintained examples can be affordable entry points into classic Porsche ownership.
"I've considered some Corvettes you know I'm speaking your language a little bit Tim probably music to your ears"
The Chevrolet Corvette is a fast American car that many people like because it has a strong engine and looks cool.
The Chevrolet Corvette is an American sports car known for its powerful V8 engines and performance capabilities. It is often considered a value proposition in the sports car market.
"the problem is we understand what the challenge is you did see manual transmission you did say something that's not a garage queen"
A manual transmission means you have to change gears yourself using a stick and a pedal called the clutch, instead of the car doing it for you.
A manual transmission is a type of gearbox that requires the driver to manually shift gears using a clutch and gear stick, offering more driver control compared to automatic transmissions.
"yeah mostly reliable which most most cars are if they're made out for you know after the fuel injection introduction so yeah not worried about that"
Fuel injection is a way the car puts gas into the engine more carefully and better than older methods, which helps the car run smoother and more reliably.
Fuel injection is a system that delivers fuel into an engine's combustion chambers more efficiently and precisely than older carburetor systems, improving reliability and performance.
"how much does it matter to you what the whole flex factor is or how it looks or how it does not matter to you are you into it for prestige at all for this thing"
Prestige means how fancy or respected a car is because of its brand or how it looks, which can make people feel proud to own it.
Prestige in cars refers to the status or respect a vehicle brand or model commands, often linked to luxury, performance, or exclusivity.
"I'll be the first to admit I've owned Miata's I I love them so I am capable of getting past some of that stigma but it is I think cars"
The Mazda Miata is a small, fun sports car that is easy to drive and loved by many people who like cars.
The Mazda Miata is a popular lightweight, rear-wheel-drive roadster known for its engaging driving experience and affordability. It has a strong enthusiast following and is often praised for its balance and simplicity.
"let's talk about analog versus synthetic driving fake driving and I had this I love sim racing"
Analog driving means driving a real car on real roads. Synthetic driving means driving in a video game or simulator that tries to feel like real driving.
Analog driving refers to real-world driving in actual cars, while synthetic driving refers to simulated driving experiences such as sim racing on computers or consoles.
"do you use sim racer Shenoo have you ever done before you know I I cannot get a hang of sim racing ... it is hard how about you Blair have you ever seen race like on a real sun"
Sim racing is like playing a video game where you drive race cars on real tracks, but it tries to feel just like driving a real car. People use special computers and steering wheels to make it feel real.
Sim racing refers to the use of realistic racing simulators to replicate the experience of driving race cars on tracks. It involves software and hardware setups that mimic real driving physics and controls.
"for quite a while actually where they had serious hydraulic rigs and it was awesome oh so good am I super proficient probably not compared to those who have real experience but I do like it ... Sims because he said hydraulic lift or hydraulic rig the real drivers never use moving rigs"
A hydraulic rig is a special machine that moves the racing simulator around to make it feel like you're really driving a car that is turning and going over bumps.
A hydraulic rig in sim racing is a motion platform that uses hydraulic actuators to move the simulator in response to driving inputs, aiming to replicate the physical sensations of driving a real car.
"Sims because he said hydraulic lift or hydraulic rig the real drivers never use moving rigs they always use stationary rigs and I'll tell you guys why the physics with the moving of the the thing moving around yeah doesn't emulate the actual driving experience enough"
A stationary rig is a racing simulator that stays still and doesn't move around, but it still feels like driving because of the screen and steering wheel.
A stationary rig in sim racing is a simulator setup that does not physically move but relies on visual and force feedback to simulate the driving experience. Many professional sim racers prefer stationary rigs for better physics fidelity.
"so none of the Formula One drivers and how do I know that because Lando Norris' brother Oliver Norris owns a company called Cool Performance and Julie and I are friends with him because we bought a simulator from him that's where our sim came from and I've talked to him about all this before he offers a moving sim but he never recommends that I think he sell I think seven of the top current Formula One drivers all use his Sims you guys should get into it it's definitely trippy"
Formula One is a type of very fast car racing with special cars and drivers competing all over the world. It's like the top level of car racing.
Formula One is the highest class of international single-seater auto racing sanctioned by the FIA. It features the fastest and most technologically advanced race cars and is considered the pinnacle of motorsport.
"Norris owns a company called Cool Performance and Julie and I are friends with him because we bought a simulator from him that's where our sim came from and I've talked to him about all this before he offers a moving sim but he never recommends that I think he sell I think seven of the top current Formula One drivers all use his Sims"
Cool Performance is a company that makes special driving simulators to help race car drivers practice and get better without being on a real track.
Cool Performance is a company that provides racing simulators, including moving simulators used by professional drivers to improve their skills. It is owned by Oliver Norris, brother of F1 driver Lando Norris.
"what occurred to me was all modern cars with drive by wire steer by wire are using a synthetic driving feedback experience and they're no longer real just like my simulator going everything's being fed through what software engineers think it should feel like"
Drive-by-wire means the car uses computers and electronics to control things like steering instead of using physical parts like a steering wheel connected by rods.
Drive-by-wire is a technology where traditional mechanical control systems like steering or throttle are replaced by electronic controls. For example, steer-by-wire replaces the mechanical steering column with electronic sensors and actuators.
"all modern cars with drive by wire steer by wire are using a synthetic driving feedback experience and they're no longer real just like my simulator going everything's being fed through what software engineers think it should feel like"
Steer-by-wire means the steering wheel controls the car's wheels using computers instead of physical parts, letting the car change how the steering feels.
Steer-by-wire is a subset of drive-by-wire technology where the steering input from the driver is transmitted electronically to the wheels without a mechanical connection. This allows for customizable steering feel and integration with driver assistance systems.
"Tim well but doesn't power steering also basically help make up for the weight of the car and the rest it does so yeah so then as a result you're getting this artificial assistance..."
Power steering helps you turn the steering wheel more easily, so you don't have to use a lot of strength to steer the car.
Power steering is a system that helps drivers steer by augmenting the steering effort needed to turn the wheels, making it easier to maneuver the vehicle especially at low speeds.
"...ar with no assist whatsoever like say in a Lotus Elise or an Aerial Atom or a Dragon these cars I mean y..."
The Lotus Elise is a small, light sports car that’s made to be really fun to drive. It doesn’t have many gadgets to help you, so you feel very connected to the car and the road. People like it because it’s simple but exciting.
The Lotus Elise is a lightweight, minimalist sports car known for its exceptional handling and driver engagement. It features a small, nimble chassis with little driver assistance, emphasizing pure driving pleasure. The Elise is often praised for its raw and connected feel on the road.
"last Friday I was at Willow Springs and I had a chance to drive a Cayman Clubsport GT4 race car and the instructor"
The Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport is a special race car made for driving fast on race tracks. It has better parts to help it go faster and handle better than normal cars.
The Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport is a track-focused race car variant of the Cayman sports car, designed for racing and high-performance driving. It features enhanced suspension, brakes, and aerodynamics for competitive motorsport use.
"really understand what the car is doing and what's interesting is if you've driven an open wheel car where you've actually locked up the wheels and you've seen a puff of smoke you know and felt that"
An open wheel car is a race car with wheels sticking out from the sides, not covered by the body. These cars are usually very fast and handle differently from regular cars.
An open wheel car is a type of race car where the wheels are located outside the main body of the vehicle, commonly seen in Formula 1 and IndyCar racing. This design affects aerodynamics and handling characteristics, making driving such cars a unique experience.
"if you've driven an open wheel car where you've actually locked up the wheels and you've seen a puff of smoke you know and felt that"
Locked up wheels happen when the tires stop spinning but the car keeps moving, often when braking too hard. This makes smoke and can make the car harder to control.
Locked up wheels refer to a situation where the tires stop rotating while the vehicle is still moving, usually due to heavy braking. This causes tire smoke and loss of traction, which can affect control and performance.
"I'm taking up a go kart racing and we're buying an electronic go go karts and I used to go kart gas engine ones you know and the smelly things the e-car makes no noise"
Electric go-karts are small cars that run on batteries instead of gas. They are quieter and feel different to drive than gas go-karts.
Electric go-karts are small racing vehicles powered by electric motors instead of traditional gas engines. They offer quieter operation and different driving characteristics compared to gas-powered go-karts.
"you know part of what I loved about this so much is trail braking actually started to make sense for me in this 911 you know I've been on"
Trail braking means you keep pressing the brakes a little bit as you turn, which helps you control the car better when going around corners.
Trail braking is a driving technique where the driver continues to apply the brakes while entering a corner, allowing better control and balance of the car during cornering.
"is you're not just a one car a one make guy you mean you like anything that's lightweight then it's and it's fun and you've even made your own lightweight fun car which we're going to talk about here in a second but so let's talk about what is this lightweight thing why is weight pretty much cure why is weight the most important factory even arguably more so even than than horsepower"
Lightweight means making a car lighter so it can go faster, stop quicker, and handle better. A lighter car is easier to drive and usually more fun.
Lightweight refers to the concept of reducing a vehicle's weight to improve its overall performance, including acceleration, handling, braking, and top speed. Lighter cars generally respond better and are more efficient in various driving conditions.
"...this is from back when Ferrari was still using Penafrina the FF was the last car that they did..."
The Ferrari FF is a fast and sporty car that can also carry more people and stuff than usual sports cars. It has four-wheel drive to help it drive better in different conditions.
The Ferrari FF is a grand tourer introduced by Ferrari featuring a four-wheel-drive system and a shooting-brake body style. It was notable for combining high performance with practicality.
"...ggest have you ever driven a lotus of lease or an exige i have driven the lease yes okay have you ever d..."
The Lotus Exige is a small, very sporty car that’s made for fast driving on race tracks. It’s like the Elise but stronger and more focused on performance. People like it because it’s very exciting and direct.
The Lotus Exige is a more hardcore, track-focused version of the Elise, featuring enhanced aerodynamics and increased power. It is known for its sharp handling and minimal driver aids, delivering a pure driving experience. The Exige is favored by enthusiasts seeking an intense sports car.
"it's a rare biased car so it's going to understeer going into the corner and it's going to oversteer exiting"
Understeer happens when the car doesn't turn enough because the front wheels slip, making it hard to follow the curve of the road.
Understeer is a handling condition where the front tires lose grip before the rear tires, causing the car to turn less sharply than intended in a corner.
"it's a rare biased car so it's going to understeer going into the corner and it's going to oversteer exiting"
Oversteer means the back of the car slides out when turning, which can make the car spin if not controlled.
Oversteer is a handling characteristic where the rear tires lose grip before the front tires, causing the rear of the car to slide outwards during cornering.
"...so that's a the original meada and it's got that jaguar s type motor at the short block was supposedly designed ..."
The Jaguar S-Type is a fancy car made for comfortable driving. It looks a bit old-fashioned and has a smooth engine. People like it because it feels nice inside and drives smoothly.
The Jaguar S-Type is a mid-size luxury sedan produced in the late 1990s and early 2000s, known for its retro styling and smooth V8 engines. It shares some mechanical components with other manufacturers but offers a distinct British luxury experience. The S-Type is often noted for its unique design and comfortable ride.
"so in our notes i've got the lotus at least exige mazam yada which we've already talked about the alpina a 110 which we can't get here the alpha 4c and she knew i watched your video talking about the 4c i had i've had two i've had a coupe and i've had a spider and i frankly i"
The Alpine A110 is a small, light sports car that’s very good at turning and driving fast on curvy roads. It was made a long time ago and then brought back with new technology. People like it because it’s fun and different from other sports cars.
The Alpine A110 is a lightweight, mid-engine sports car known for its agility and sharp handling, originally produced in the 1960s and recently revived. It is celebrated for its driving dynamics and unique French sports car heritage. The modern A110 offers a blend of classic spirit with contemporary technology.
"... to talk about that the twins the toyota and the supra the gr86 and the br7 so brz so these are all cars..."
The Toyota Supra is a fast sports car that many people like because it’s strong and reliable. It can be made even faster with some changes, which makes it popular with car fans. It’s famous from movies and racing.
The Toyota Supra is a legendary sports car known for its powerful engines and tuning potential, especially the fourth-generation (Mark IV). It has a strong enthusiast following due to its performance and reliability. The Supra is often discussed for its role in popular culture and motorsports.
"...bout that the twins the toyota and the supra the gr86 and the br7 so brz so these are all cars so far ..."
The Toyota GR 86 is a small sports car that’s easy to drive and fun on twisty roads. It works well for people who want a sporty car without spending too much. It’s made with a close partner car, the Subaru BRZ.
The Toyota GR 86 is a lightweight, rear-wheel-drive sports coupe designed for driving enjoyment and affordability. It shares its platform with the Subaru BRZ and is praised for its balanced handling and accessible performance. The GR 86 is popular among enthusiasts looking for a fun daily driver.
"... the toyota and the supra the gr86 and the br7 so brz so these are all cars so far that you consider b..."
The Subaru BRZ is a small sports car that’s easy and fun to drive, especially on twisty roads. It’s made together with Toyota and is similar to the GR 86. People like it because it’s sporty but not too expensive.
The Subaru BRZ is a lightweight, rear-wheel-drive sports coupe co-developed with Toyota, known for its balanced handling and driver-focused experience. It shares many components with the Toyota GR 86 and is appreciated for its affordability and fun driving dynamics. The BRZ is a popular choice for enthusiasts seeking an accessible sports car.
"...driven the new one i've driven the prior gen the scion frs um which became the gt86 and you know i'll never ..."
The Scion FR-S is a small sports car that’s fun and easy to drive. It’s the same car as the Toyota GT 86 but with a different name. Many people like it because it’s sporty but not too expensive.
The Scion FR-S is the original name for the Toyota GT 86 before Toyota rebranded it. It is a lightweight, rear-wheel-drive sports coupe developed jointly with Subaru. The FR-S is praised for its balanced handling and affordability.
"... the prior gen the scion frs um which became the gt86 and you know i'll never forget that when i when i..."
The Toyota GT 86 is a small sports car that’s fun to drive and not too expensive. It’s the older version of the GR 86 and was made to be easy to handle. People like it because it’s sporty but simple.
The Toyota GT 86 is the predecessor to the GR 86, a lightweight, rear-wheel-drive sports coupe designed for driving enjoyment. It evolved from the earlier Scion FR-S and is known for its balanced chassis and accessible performance. The GT 86 helped revive affordable sports cars in recent years.
"...use let's go let's talk about okay listen the the emira which is in blairs backdrop is a wonderful sport..."
The Lotus Emira is a new sports car that’s light and fun to drive but also comfortable enough for daily use. It’s made to be exciting on the road while still practical. People see it as a fresh and important car for Lotus.
The Lotus Emira is a modern sports car that combines lightweight design with contemporary performance and comfort. It represents Lotus’s latest effort to blend everyday usability with sharp handling and driver engagement. The Emira is seen as a significant step forward for the brand.
"...ce it right so for example four doesn't make the gtd or the four gt it's being produced by a company c..."
The Volkswagen Golf is a small car that’s good for everyday driving. It’s reliable and comfortable, and some versions are sporty and fast. Many people like it because it’s easy to use and well made.
The Volkswagen Golf is a compact hatchback known for its practicality, build quality, and driving dynamics. It is available in various trims including performance-oriented models like the GTI and R. The Golf is a global best-seller and often discussed for its versatility.
"i've driven him with the top up and i live in a cold climate part of the year you hardly know you're in a convertible frankly"
A convertible is a car where you can fold the roof down and drive with the top open to enjoy fresh air.
A convertible is a car with a roof structure that can be retracted or removed, allowing open-air driving. Convertibles often have different structural characteristics compared to fixed-roof cars.
"...uys aren't you know tuned into this it's called a lotus 111 rs where he takes you know obviously a s2 Elise and..."
The Lotus Elise is a small and light sports car that’s very fun to drive. The Elise RS is a special version that’s even faster and handles better. People like it because it feels very connected to the road.
The Lotus Elise is a lightweight, agile sports car celebrated for its pure driving experience and minimal driver aids. The Series 2 (S2) Elise RS is a tuned version offering enhanced performance and handling. It remains a benchmark for lightweight sports cars.
"...rgeous wheels they look like they look like furry f50 wheels by the way that's actually that was my in..."
The Ferrari F50 is a very special and rare fast car made in the 1990s. It has a powerful engine similar to those used in race cars. Many people want it because it’s unique and very exciting to drive.
The Ferrari F50 is a limited-production supercar from the mid-1990s, featuring a naturally aspirated V12 derived from Formula 1 technology. It is highly prized for its raw performance, exclusivity, and connection to Ferrari’s racing heritage. The F50 is considered one of the most iconic and collectible Ferraris.
"matter a car that i do love now we're getting way well further away from lightweight two-seat sports cars is a shelby gt 350 and 350 r that that is maybe my favorite American driving experience i've ever had and might have been my answer for the question what heavy car is still"
The Shelby GT350 is a very fast and sporty version of the Mustang car. It has a strong engine and is made to be great on race tracks. People love it because it’s powerful and fun to drive.
The Shelby GT350 is a high-performance Mustang variant featuring a naturally aspirated V8 and track-tuned suspension. It is widely regarded as one of the best American muscle cars for driving enthusiasts due to its balance of power and handling. The GT350R offers even more focused performance with weight-saving measures.
"matter a car that i do love now we're getting way well further away from lightweight two-seat sports cars is a shelby gt 350 and 350 r that that is maybe my favorite American driving experience i've ever had and might have been my answer for the question what heavy car is still"
The Ford Shelby GT350 and GT350R are fast and powerful versions of the Mustang car. They are made to be really fun to drive, especially on race tracks. Many people like them because they have strong engines and sound great.
In this context, the Ford Shelby GT350 and GT350R are high-performance variants of the Mustang, celebrated for their powerful V8 engines and track-focused dynamics. They offer a quintessential American muscle car experience with modern engineering. These models are often praised for their driving engagement and sound.
"...surprise me we had actually commissioned for the Ford GT new forged wheels from bbs the their FIR wheel a..."
The Ford GT is a very fast and special car made to look like old race cars from the 1960s. It’s built with the latest technology to go really fast and handle well. Only a few people can own one because it’s rare and expensive.
The Ford GT is a high-performance supercar inspired by the classic GT40 race cars of the 1960s. It features advanced aerodynamics and a powerful engine, representing Ford’s commitment to cutting-edge technology and motorsport heritage. The GT is a highly collectible and exclusive vehicle.
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Welcome back. So I have a question for all of you. A challenge we need to help our friend
Blair choose his next sports car. But there are some rules and some guardrails. And that's
where he reason we brought you new Mapleton into the show. Mr lightweight sports car because
Blair as you guys are about to learn loves lightweight sports cars has had a ton of sports
cars as a brand agnostic likes just about anything dependent on how it's you know how
feels. But if he doesn't like it he doesn't keep it.
Welcome to full throttle talk the podcast where horse power meets conversation from supercars
to classic legends high revving tech to motorsport mayhem we covered all straight from the driver's
seat whether you're a gear head eraser or just love the thrill of the open road you're in the
right place buckle up hit the gas and let's go full throttle into today's episode and let's start
out by introducing everyone to Blair and Blair you just got rid of what a lot of people would
consider the unicorn car of unicorn cars and Audi R8. I did yeah I'm a thanks for the lead
in you described it pretty well I'm I am a car guy who loves manual transmissions probably first
but engagement and it's it's got to be fun it's got to be engaging and I don't care where it comes
from even though we all have our biases proclivities whatever but I just got rid of a 2009 Audi R8
in a gated manual so first gen it was the 4.2 v8 I think just before they put the 5 to v10 in it
but yeah I'm on the hunt now as serial car guys do sometimes you have to get rid of one to make
room for the next and that's where I find myself currently something to pair next to my e46 m3
which is kind of that taproot first love automotive love of mine but your automotive passion isn't
towards chasing brand your automotive passions towards finding ultimate driving experience
that's something you told me which I stuck with me you're in Shenu is the exact same way we were
just talking we're all searching for that perfect you know that perfect driving experience I wonder
if we're ever gonna find it so Shenu what are you thinking welcome to the show by the way yeah thanks
guys excited to be here to talk about sports cars that's something I absolutely love and
yeah I mean listen I don't know that there's one perfect experience I think what it is it's kind
of the spectrum of different experiences right that's what I'm after and that's why I like different
sports cars for the things that they can offer you know I'm not just into lightweight sports cars
though that's what I've been doing for the last over 20 years but you know to me each sports car
can deliver something a little bit different that the other one did and as long as the core
things are met I'm gonna be happy and I'm gonna have a great experience perfect so we're gonna
start out since we're trying to help our friend Blair Blair you give us the over and under and we
have got a great we've all prepared for today's show doing a lot of research on analog versus
synthetic driving we've all talked you know done a lot of what the heck's the word engagement mean
what is it what is the actual weight threshold for it to be lightweight all those sort of things
but you give us the over and under what specifically you're looking for and I'll start out by asking
some specific questions what's your what what's your price range um 100k and below is is the
sweet spot for me okay I've considered going above that up to there's a car I've had on my mind for
about 185 grand that if I really want to swing for the fence I could figure that out but 100k
is the safe zone all right so 100k how old does it do all what modern you know widgets do you care
about like how old will you go well so for 100k you can buy a really nice old 911 you can buy a
really well done 914 so it's too old what are you looking for well what do you think right now
Shenu said it pretty well actually I think there is no perfect car I've learned sadly for that covers
all the use cases and that's like could there be one for a specific use case I kind of think there is
you bring up old air cooled porches I live in the mountains you see my background I'm in the
Rocky Mountain Wasatch mountain area of Utah like you want to go drive up the canyon that's a very
different use case than driving on the track and so you know what what what I'm kind of thinking
right now and I love usability as well and I want to get my cars out of the garage as often as
possible I get very frustrated when I find myself thinking man be fun to get the car out but this
is really not the day this is really not the drive it's not you know the so here's what I've heard
I love it this is perfect so Dr. Mapleton and Dr. Harris are going to help you out with the problem
okay so I heard under $100,000 I heard it can't be a garage queen which is really sweet I heard
you don't want something too old you definitely don't want something carbureted am I hitting the
nail on the head so far you are I love those but not this time okay and so you can do a little
be honest here right this is a real estate confessional two seats or more you want to leave
the kids at home nah I'm open to either two seats is fine I've got the M3 when I need to shuttle
kids around we take that okay there you go I think we got it do you have any sort of brand
preferences are we just gonna set that aside for now um I do like Porsche yes I like um
I like European cars I like you know I've considered some Corvettes you know I'm
speaking your language a little bit Tim probably music to your ears I'm thinking about one of those
as well it's I am literally all over the place so no I don't have a that finite of set of rules
for this you know it's funny people think I'm into Corvettes I've owned one like 30 years ago
and I just bring it up basically to give it a benchmark because and then she knew I actually
was looking forward to talking with you about this too how the ZR1 and even the Z06 is sort of just
like taking the whole sports car super car thing you just like put it in a box and shaking it around
so people don't know which way is up but we can get to that all right so I mean it is crazy right
go ahead sorry yeah manual transmission has to be and the other thing that I want this car to do
is I want this car to be an occasional track toy not all the time I'm talking three HPDEs a year
I got with Dr. Mapleton as he I could tell he's brought up he's got a plan for you
I feel like it's going to come from England but we'll get there in a second
all right this is an interesting so let's move forward now we've gotten over we understand what
the problem is we understand what the challenge is you did see manual transmission you did say
something that's not a garage queen something that miles not miles matters not matters would
you care as long as it's reliable yeah mostly reliable which most most cars are if they're
made out for you know after the fuel injection introduction so yeah not worried about that so
much I think I know the answer to my next question I'll ask it anyway we're all probably too old
even consider this question but it how much does it matter to you what the whole flex factor is
or how it looks or how it does not matter to you are you into it for prestige at all for this thing
oh I would like to say zero but I'd probably be lying to myself a little bit here you know we're
all trying to overcome the ego in us as car people and I'll be the first to admit I've owned
Miata's I I love them so I am capable of getting past some of that stigma but it is I think cars
are meant to be fun whether it is the ZR1 or you know the the Miata and it's fun when other people
share some of that enthusiasm as well like my wife and kids will tell you I become obnoxious
it's uh anytime I'm down in Shenoo's neck of the woods if you will Southern California
I have to drive with my windows down because you never know what's gonna rip by you
then like go down to Orange County I gotta hear the cars I want to engage even if I'm not driving
it so I I do like when there's a fun factor for myself of course but other people is always a plus
yes and definitely again just one last question because I love old cars and you know I don't want
to bias you one direction or the other but is there an age cut off you said no carburetors
can we just say no carbs that'll be a good yeah okay no carbs let's say that all right okay so
let's talk about analog versus synthetic driving fake driving and I had this I love sim racing
do you use sim racer Shenoo have you ever done before you know I I cannot get a hang of sim racing
yes it is extremely hard I struggle with that it is not an easy thing and I drive on track okay
it is hard how about you Blair have you ever seen race like on a real sun
huh oh yeah yeah I had a there's a sim racing lounge here in Salt Lake and I had a membership
for quite a while actually where they had serious hydraulic rigs and it was awesome oh so
good am I super proficient probably not compared to those who have real experience but I do like it
I'll share this for the three people that are listening or watching right now I care about
Sims because he said hydraulic lift or hydraulic rig the real drivers never use moving rigs they
always use stationary rigs and I'll tell you guys why the physics with the moving of the the thing
moving around yeah doesn't emulate the actual driving experience enough and then it could
adversely affect the driver's ability on the track when driving the same exact car
so none of the Formula One drivers and how do I know that because Lando Norris' brother Oliver
Norris owns a company called Cool Performance and Julie and I are friends with him because we bought
a simulator from him that's where our sim came from and I've talked to him about all this before
he offers a moving sim but he never recommends that I think he sell I think seven of the top
current Formula One drivers all use his Sims you guys should get into it it's definitely trippy
and it definitely makes you better on the road so all right so let's so let's this moving forward
what occurred to me was all modern cars with drive by wire steer by wire are using a synthetic
driving feedback experience and they're no longer real just like my simulator going everything's
being fed through what software engineers think it should feel like what are you thinking Schnue
yeah that's exactly what's going on you know we went from having very mechanically pure cars
that gave you the feedback from the road to things that now electronically filtering that
whether it's through hydraulics or frankly just pure you know electromechanical system so yeah
that's filtering that is happening is what's making it difficult to feel what a car is doing nowadays
and in case you guys haven't figured it out yet Mr. Mapleton is a real engineer
he worked for the he worked for the OEMs in Detroit he's an actual letters to god you know
engineer type so we can go as deep as we want so I want to ask you some questions about that okay
sure so hydraulic steering I understand conceptually how it works but I don't understand why
you can't is it just because the lack of ability for the ones and zeros to digitally transfer the
actual experience of the hydraulic fluid moving around and all the lines and the gears and the
steering check why is it that they can't do a better job simulating it so anytime there's an assist
you know with whatever type of feedback it is like whether it's the steering or the brakes
you know steering is one of the things that we all can really immediately you know understand
but the minute that there's some assist all of a sudden you don't have to provide that same level
of effort right and so that is really the tactile difference that makes it hard for these hydraulic
systems or electric systems to get to a one-to-one correlation yeah so it's it's pretty it's pretty
difficult but again you're trying to balance this whole thing is these cars gotten heavier
bigger tires it takes so much more muscle to turn the steering wheel so you need to have
a hydraulic system to help assist if the car was smaller with smaller tires well
most people can turn the steering wheel even in a parking lot so yeah that those are the trade-offs
Tim well but doesn't power steering also basically help make up for the weight of the car and the
rest it does so yeah so then as a result you're getting this artificial assistance which is
removes some of the feel that we're looking for as far as feedback so when a when someone who's
never driven a real hydraulic steering car let alone you know if they've never driven one before
and they're talking about steering feel it only comparing to a digitized experience versus a
digitized experience when they experience an analog power steering rack it I've had those
experiences I'm sure you guys have had them too with friends when they drive some of your cars the
analogs you know it they don't even understand the first thing they say is it's so much harder to
drive and then they and then sometimes if they if it's like your 911 there they start to feel
insecure because so much feedback comes to the steering wheel but it's transcendental really if
you love cars yeah it really is I mean you've if you've driven a car with no assist whatsoever
like say in a Lotus Elise or an Aerial Atom or a Dragon these cars I mean yeah it's the feeling
that you're getting the feedback you're getting is on yet another level from hydraulic yep I agree
so break by wire same thing I mean you're not really modulating the brakes so it's all doing it
for you there's really no I mean help walk me through there from an engineering perspective
is there any aspect of the synthesis you know the the synthetic brakes that are you know in any way
correctly emulating the analog experience I mean I'm maybe I'm not saying my question right but I
try to get to a one-to-one correlation where the virtual or electronic emulates the reality
or you know and so it's it's going to take a while before that gets there you know last Friday I was
at Willow Springs and I had a chance to drive a Cayman Clubsport GT4 race car and the instructor
was like hey this car doesn't have any assisted brakes have you ever driven a car with non-assisted
brakes I said yes I've owned them you know I get it and sure enough you have to put so much effort
into the pedal in order to get the car to stop and that level of effort is not acceptable to
some people you know certainly people that are getting into a sport where it takes a bit of
effort you know if you're coming from a world where everything you've driven has been fully
assisted you jump into a car like that and it's a bit of a cold shower do you think the new generation
go ahead sorry Blair oh yeah I was gonna ask him why why did they put that on the the club sport is
that just feel yes yeah once you once you drive a car without brake you know without any assisted
brake it's unbelievable you're you're now you're modulating the brakes by pressure not travel okay
and that is you really are getting you're getting that tactile that feedback through your foot to
really understand what the car is doing and what's interesting is if you've driven an open wheel car
where you've actually locked up the wheels and you've seen a puff of smoke you know and felt that
and see that that relation that that's so exciting that is like one of the really fun fun things of
driving so yeah I think that's that's you know one of the key reasons I mean it's like I I'm taking
up a go kart racing and we're buying an electronic go go karts and I used to go kart gas engine ones
you know and the smelly things the e-car makes no noise and so you have to figure out where you
are in the threshold just by listening to the tires you know which is a completely different
experience I it where I kind of feel sorry for the current generation is they're only comparing
synthetic cars to synthetic cars and if they've never had an analog experience they don't know
what they're missing and so the engineers are going to be less likely to want to really truly
improve the feedback or whatever because their consumers don't know the difference does that
make sense Blair yeah and and you know I put this car up behind me because that's
the when I think of steering feel when I think of brake feel I think of my old 85 career and it was
you know part part of what I love driving about or this car so much is those two things it was
manual steering rack and and I'd love she knew to get your take on hydraulic versus
electric because hydraulic doesn't always mean better too I'm kind of a BMW guy so ask me how I
know that there's some sketchy hydraulic steering racks in that brand in the history but you know
that this the steering of this car was so heavy and when you start you know gliding through a canyon
road driving the thing hard it waits up perfectly and then you know part of what I loved about this
so much is trail braking actually started to make sense for me in this 911 you know I've been on
track with GT4s as well but when I would get into the brakes of this car and part of it's the you
know the the lightweight as we've we've alluded to part of it is just the the ergonomics and the
layout of the uh the 911 but you would feel the whole weight shift on to that front those front
wheels and then as you would bleed off of those manual brakes unassisted brakes you would you
would feel all of that weight slowly start to peel off of the front and and then you load up the the
classic 911 into the rear and get on the throttle really early out of a corner so you know it's
I had a great job explaining trail braking by the way in case you guys are curious what that meant
well it's it's not always I appreciate that but it's not always that easy to understand
and I think this is part of it is because you know you could drive a modern car on track
that they've disguised first of all there's a lot of weight and they're doing everything
they can again you know don't let me say something technically incorrect but they're
trying to disguise the weight in every every way possible and continue to build systems in
that make you less connected to what's actually happening and this is one of those cars for me
that was like oh now trail braking starts to make sense when you're actually using a tool
for which that they can communicate enough that you you start to see the concept in motion and
that is that was that 911 for me I did take it on track once or twice not full sessions
um you know quick stuff but it was to feel all those manual systems to your point Tim most
people don't get to feel that so you know I encourage anybody go go go drive a unassisted
or at least hydraulic steering rack and then lightweight less electronics you know and feel
what a car is actually doing underneath you and you can't in so many modern cars so remember
our mission here is to help you choose a car you may have just you may already know what you
need to get but we're going to see because you just really were 11 9 9 11's there which makes
total sense yeah I mean I I'm a I'm a serial experience chaser you know and I used to always
say no this is the forever car how could it not be this was uh this was my 1985 it was a
rest of world euro spec car uh guard dreads a little bit ubiquitous I get it for a g body
but the interior was cashmere it was it was beautiful full leather cashmere interior
the euro cars are lighter they make more horsepower higher compression motor I've never kept anything
over two years I had this for three years and only sold it because somebody made it real easy
they had a buyer and they had an r8 and I wanted to try that experience and so I let it go because
they made it so easy for me and I think well I could always go back to aircooled 9 11's as
cliche as they are right now it's in my opinion it's for a reason if they're set up well now I did
I've driven a lot of these things and I'm convinced that at least half of them need a new steering
rack mine did when I bought it I didn't necessarily know something was wrong with it but my mechanic
put a new steering rack in this thing and it was unbelievable how tight how you know uh
it not only was it tight but it was also very like um linear so there was not a lot of dead
space which you you get like my m3 for example e46 it's got more dead on center field than this
Carrera had which is like from from 20 years earlier so if you get it properly sorted you know
all of these systems really become like so magical to drive um so yeah what might I buy another air
cooled 9 11 well we'll see it's on the list we've got ideas we've got ideas for you and remember
if you're just listening to us uh you can watch us on youtube as well and we changed the backgrounds
of our images so you can see his uh 230 horsepower euro spec 1985 9 11 and guards red so when you guys
think uh cars became less engaging what do you think she knew I think the last 10 years is when
all these electronic systems um all the over assist has really started to rule the roost and and take
over from the the driving experience yeah I'd say the last 10 years is is where it's it's really gone
downhill 10 years so that puts it 2016 you don't think it happened before that yeah it certainly
was happening before that but what I'm saying is now it's just so common it's so difficult to find a
manual transmission as a simple example whereas you know even 10 years ago there was I think a better
selection of of manual gearboxes that's true bull manual lightweight which actually leads into our
next question so let's talk about the lightweight engineering philosophy and like I said I think
in the United States it could be argued that chenu is probably the biggest expert at this
because you've had a passion you again you're the one of the things that's interesting about you
is you're not just a one car a one make guy you mean you like anything that's lightweight then it's
and it's fun and you've even made your own lightweight fun car which we're going to talk
about here in a second but so let's talk about what is this lightweight thing why is weight
pretty much cure why is weight the most important factory even arguably more so even than than
horsepower you know weight lightweight helps every performance category right from acceleration
to handling to braking top speed you name it you know you can have a you know a nice benefit
from lightening a car if you add power to it it goes faster in a straight line maybe it improves
acceleration you know top speed but that's really the sum total and so that's why you know
light you know lightening a car making it lighter is going to you know basically improve
every kind of performance you know aspect of the experience that you're going to have with the car
so what do you sorry what do you classify as lightweight I mean this is that's a that was one
of the criteria so what is yeah it's been a sliding scale guys I mean because cars have gotten
bigger people have gotten bigger right safety regulations consumer demands for convenience
all these things have an effect right there's no insidious plot at the OEMs to make these cars
bigger and heavier and less engaged that's not you know that's not the intention but they are
you know there are rules there are regulations that require these cars to become cleaner right
so the emissions are significantly better right now we trumped up right all that yeah no it's
listen he can drop the future things but there's if you look at modern cars now they're so much
cleaner than they ever were you know I remember flying into Los Angeles in the early 90s and just
seeing a haze you know of smog now you don't see that anymore okay this clearly was there was a
difference start up an old car in your garage start up a new car in your garage you don't notice
that difference immediately so yeah I mean look I think to me lightweight is kind of anything under
about 2,800 pounds okay what do you think okay does that check the boxes for you as your 9 the 9
11 still fits yeah that car does I'm thinking about I agree that it's a sliding scale but
you know I what were was my Cayman GT4 not lightweight at just over 3,000 pounds not
compared to any Miata no it wasn't at all but I would still probably put that in the lightweight
car category um you know but but nowadays the question I have also for Shenoo and you as well
Tim what what is the heaviest car you've driven that felt like genuinely communicative fun you
could you could chuck it around yes and I got an easy answer on that one yeah please my uh Ferrari
296 gts that's a heavy Betty I mean what is it 38 yeah she said she's a big girl but it's it
doesn't feel it doesn't feel big but if you I haven't driven it hard enough to really I'm sure if I
put it on the track I definitely start feeling the weight because I've had a lot of lightweight cars
before in my other experiences but um that car disguises its weight really well and I don't know
I think Porsche and Ferrari are the two that contrast don't they come on Mr. Engineer what's
your answer well I can tell you that you know Ferrari have been known to you know spin things
you know in their favor right so you know my my guess is that is that they probably advertise
dry weight it is correct they dry advertise dry weight and then when you see them that funny
and they're the only the only manufacturer that does dry weight versus wet weight so what that
means is in case you guys don't know is basically every manufacturer but Ferrari will completely
fill up the gas tank all the fluids are completely full everything and then they weigh it and Ferrari
drains everything and then they weigh it and that's the reason the Ferrari the 296 for example
it showed up as being like 300 or 400 pounds lighter than you know its nearest competitor
but that wasn't the case at all but the that answers your question I would say that's the
heaviest lightest feeling sports car I've driven what about you Shino that's a great question Blair
you know I would say um a c8 stingray is pretty heavy and but it's really you know capable car
particularly if you put into track mode then actually the feel of cars actually reasonably
acceptable as well so yeah that's the heaviest one I've driven recently that that I that I actually
enjoy so just this lightweight versus heavy weight thing even make a difference if they're
able to essentially uh engineer away the effects of the weight I mean is this you know is this
something that people should be thinking about I you know my um one of my good friends um who's
very good driver you know again auto industry guy um got out of a Ferrari porosangue and he said the
car was completely unreal he said it completely um seems smaller and lighter than it actually felt
driving and you know part of it is because of those you know multi-matic spool valve shocks that are
in it and the um frankly all the all the software used to to control that so they've done you know
they're starting to get there I mean it's it's starting to happen whether you like it or not
but you're paying for it you know the the complexity there's cost and there's
reliability issues that you're gonna have to deal with who's doing the best engineering right uh
right now car new car manufacturer oems in your guys's opinion not who's making the best car or
where's the best brand but who's actually doing the best engineering well I want to ask to to
to build to dovetail on that or to build on that uh Tim Shanoos said something that I did
want to go back to and it's kind it's in a lot along the lines of engineering and how hard
they're trying or not trying so you said something Shanoos to the effective well they're not trying
to make them big and heavy and what we all know and I to some extent I feel bad genuinely bad
for these car manufacturers who have a moving goalpost seemingly at every legislative session
you know they they don't know really what the targeting is and what the requirements are
but I do get a little bit skeptical you said they're not trying to make them big and heavy
but are they really trying to not make them big and heavy and that's that's where I become
a little more skeptical and giving an example maybe of why I feel that it's not completely
unattainable for these guys to to engineer some of the lightweight into it I can't help but think
of an ND Miata you look at where the NA started at 2200 pounds 2100 whatever it was and then the NC
Miata they got up to like 25 2550 and then the ND which if you've been an ND Miata the infotainment
all of the electronics in the car like a night and day compared to an NC Miata and I imagine the
safety and all of the you know the the legislative regulatory requirements they have to hit or built
in and yet it went down to 24 and change 100 100 pounds and I think well how is Miata doing this
and oh by the way they're one of the manufacturers that is Mazda that is not going EV for a large you
know part of their offering you know their product lineup how are they able to do that and why can't
and I look at the brands that I love I look at Porsche I look at BMW think why can they not
be a little more successful in trying to keep waiting complexity out of their cars
yeah I mean listen when you're pursuing a larger audience right because you're trying to get more
sales you're stuck you're going to keep expanding it's called scope creep right when you're
when you're developing something new and there's a newer requirement and yet another new requirement
and so I do agree with you that I feel like Mazda have done the best job in in regards to sports cars
of staying true to their original concept I 100% agree with you it's it's really admirable what
they've been able to pull off but Mazda as a company has not grown much but fortunately they
have sedans and SUVs and crossovers and things so that has helped them for sure but yeah it's
look it's so difficult for these car manufacturers to meet these ever-expanding requirements and
you know look we're sports car guys we like to drive these cars hard and have fun whether it's
on the track or in the canyons you know I think the three of us are pretty like-minded in that
regards but let's be honest most people who are buying sports cars are not driving the cars
anywhere near eight tenths or even six tenths of the car's capability okay and that's cold
hard reality and these car manufacturers know they're buying they're buying for brand I mean
that's what's happening for brand they're buying for the cashier for the yeah for the flex and
but I'm on team Blair on this question and because uh all right so we're over in Penafrina in Italy
and we're talking to the guys this is from back when Ferrari was still using Penafrina the FF was
the last car that they did and we asked the we asked the guys there what's the story of cars
becoming whales basically and he didn't all the things you said were not the primary things that
he said I'm not discounting what you said she knew what he said it's okay he says because people don't
put the the American buyers in particular don't see a small cars being prestigious and so they
have to make them bigger and when your competitor comes out with a bigger car bigger seems better
bigger has more of a brand bigger has more of ego who knows what other words emotional words are
attached to it but to make a small car americans see small car cheap that's the correlation small
car cheap europeans don't see it that way the japanese ate nobody else in the world but america
big got one big right and if it's not cheap that's how the perception is and you know i think we
can all see that if they wanted to they could make small cars that are going to be very efficient
but people to your point snu wouldn't buy them because that's not what people have come to expect
and you know as far as like the size of these things it's it's like um if you're in a if you're
in a theater and and you're trying to watch a concert and the first five and you're like row 20
and you know everyone in the front of the theater stands up and you can't see the concert anymore
you're gonna have to stand up too and so that goes with why suv's dominate everywhere because people
feel funny they feel physically insecure when everything around them is so huge i think we
can all relate to that because we all like small sports cars right yeah absolutely but maybe it'll
change back this is an interesting question it wasn't on our sheet but um autonomous cars what
effect is that going to have on our obsession for lightweight cars i mean the autonomous cars are
you know maybe that's going to completely change the rules with regards to all these weight things
with regards i'm sorry regards the size things you guys have any takeaways on that
well what one of my thoughts immediately with lightweight cars i think part of what makes
them fun to me is there is an element of danger if you will you know you jump in a really small
light lotus elise you jump in a a vintage mini um and you get in that thing knowing this would not
be great if i crash or if one of these guys hits me you know which sounds a little masochistic to
think that might be an appeal for some but the alternative is you get into a barge where there
is really no you're so insulated from everybody around you from the road from like danger you
know they the systems have all completely taken over um so yeah when i think of these
autonomous cars i think well it's the complexity i think of weight i think of you know insular and
and the the contrasting viewpoint is small light kind of scary you don't want to get hit by one
of these ebbs it would not be good and you are really alive and you're you know you have to be
all in on what you're doing and that's i think that's what a driver loves frankly i love it doesn't
the the autonomous the autonomous cars are going to be a win just going to take all the
crappy drivers off the road there it is needs to be said listen most people don't love driving
right they do it because they have to right tomorrow i've got to go to the airport i'd
like to take an autonomous vehicle to the airport right i used to they they're called taxis right
but that's what we used to call the autonomous driving cars but now you know we'll have robots
and i'm going to take one every every time i have to go to lax i don't like that drive it's a terrible
drive i'll take a robot i'm good with that i had no problems with that so let's move forward blare
hopefully we're focusing you in on something we have a weight we have a price range we have a
okay now let's get into the fun stuff pure lightweight icons i i just made a partial list
here but ariel adam the caterham seven uh bac mono at kxm expo and all these cars we have to
have mr lightweight expert on the show today because he's owned all these sold most of these i
think you were a dealer for uh everyone but one of these yeah i mean there's also this other car
the virul from mexico that's really cool we had those yeah i had the first bac mono in the country
we you know we were building those cars and so i know that car very very well and ariel's
i bought my first one back in 2007 so you know it's it's uh yeah i know i know those cars very
very well let me so then blare yeah blare we have a 67 uh mini cooper s by the way i don't
have a picture of it do you have you ever driven any of these cars so before before the good doctor
and i move forward have you ever driven any of those four cars because we have more after that no
all right so i would humbly suggest have you ever driven a lotus of lease or an exige
i have driven the lease yes okay have you ever driven an alpha four c
yes okay all right good so we're getting the good stuff but you've never driven an ariel so
what would his experience be like driving in an ariel chenille i had a ariel adam uh three s
okay that's the turbo car the turbo behind a turbo yeah which was you described it perfectly
in one of your videos it's like driving an old 911 that is really what it's like to it is it's a
rare biased car so it's going to understeer going into the corner and it's going to oversteer exiting
so yeah i mean it'd be similar to your your 85 but just an open experience so everything
is more visceral and more immediate and you know to your point about being a little bit scared it's
like when you're exposed it's more exhilarating that's one of the things i love about these type
of cars and you definitely wouldn't care if it got some rock chips and some dings on it because
there's no body work yeah yeah you're gonna chip up stuff that's just the way it is yeah all right so
let's talk i mean the one thing i was going to say too about lightweight cars is tim you haven't
any miata i had one for a couple of years uh i just brought one by the way i just brought
yeah exactly what'd you know what'd you get charith 96 um any miata we're using as a as a
loner car as a shop car and you know you drive the thing and it's fun it's like how can somebody
say this is not a sports car this thing is great it's it's it's not fast but it handles beautifully
feels great what a fun car shifter is amazing steering is amazing you know and they're so
cheap the price range i don't it's really for the price you cannot beat it and you want a sports car
miata is pretty much the answer to all the questions ever asked yeah it's true yeah i i don't love fine
dining frankly but you know when you go to a nice place and then they give you like um not the gelato
after what do they give you is the palate cleanser it's um it's like the sorbet yeah it's like it's
like lime sorbet or whatever just we'll go with that we'll go with that wine sorbet yeah
we're going to restaurants from 30 years ago but that's fine yes as you can tell i uh i'm good with
setting my sides a little lower um so i'm out of touch a little bit but i've always called the
any miata truly the palate cleanser of cars if you if you don't understand any of what we're talking
about and frankly i'm still learning i think we all are especially as as they're there are a bunch
of cars we haven't driven i think all of us collectively but you want to go back to just
fundamentals of driving fundamentals of a car and it's not one of the great engines but the
one six the one eight they are very eager they're very lively they are very happy and so you know
all of the elements are there in the name the auto so i you know i encourage anybody if you
especially if you're getting tired of the the complexity the weight you know just this this
continual onslaught of power and weight in these cars go drive one of those and feel what it does
the first time you go around a corner and the thing that i will say about lightweight cars is
i think you can do stuff in those cars that you don't trust yourself doing in older cars
like this picture is an example that i've got up it's it was a 1961 uh right hand drive mini a
buddy of mine had that this is actually me in a roundabout close to my house and we got it up on
three wheels my buddy was recording and that's awesome yeah exactly and you know she knew you
could tell me what's going on there from a engineering standpoint it caused that thing to
go up on but we were driving it quickly and you know and then amyata i've never driven a car more
that i um that that i would was willing to and happy to kick out the back end around town and
nobody cared well let's talk about that let's talk about that and and we're going to move forward
here uh because we're our goal here is to give you maybe two or three choices of cars you should
seriously consider so you mentioned uh you know the first generation meadas and you're using high
nerd terms in the meada things so what about that and i know you and i talked about this prior but
i should know i'd be interested in your take on this too so that's a the original meada and it's
got that jaguar s type motor at the short block was supposedly designed by Porsche and the heads are
supposedly designed by Cosworth you can um i don't know if you're familiar with these what's it called
again blare do you remember the meeker of these the rocket the the rocketeer rocketeer yeah so you
can buy the kits and have them assembled in the united states are you familiar with this you know
i'm not i'm not this it's new to me okay so this guy's been doing it for not very long like five
or six years maybe but any event so it's it is what it is he goes through the whole thing
you can buy this turnkey for around a hundred grand with that motor in it i think the motors have
up to 360 horsepower so and the motor itself weighs the same supposedly as the original and this one
had been a 1.6 or could have been a 1.8 so blare that's a that's a consideration it fits all your
check checks is all your boxes it's not too ostentatious it's going to be something you
won't mind driving every single day uh it's definitely going to have more than enough power
and all the mechanical systems will have been massaged and gone through or frankly you can buy
all the turnkey parts from them in england and they'll ship them to you you just assemble it
yourself so there's an option and what do you by the way what do you think of these
erector sat cars like the ariel adam uh not not usable day in day out and okay so that's all
what about a caterham seven i've always loved the idea of you know a catering i kind of feel like
i'm i'm six two i weigh 225 pounds i've never sat in one but that becomes a prerequisite
word for a lot of these i don't think i would ever buy it without sitting in it first what do you
think she knew has the has the catering compared to say for example these other ones i've never
driven one yeah i mean it's really old technology right so it's it's you know just a step up from
a motorcycle as far as safety is concerned um you know usability or practicality it's zilch okay i
don't think that's going to meet those requirements that you have there you know look it's it's it's
like an alternative to a motorcycle that's the way i would view a catering there's so much fun
they're really cool cars you know that's a lot of super seven yeah that's a 70 year old car
it's amazing what they've been able to to to you know do with that car all these years and so it's
fundamentally a fun really cool car that is amazing to think how old it is isn't it yeah it's crazy
yeah well that's where i think like the lowest in least which is behind me that's what i think
is the modern super seven you know i i think it has additional practicality has additional
safety it certainly has additional performance it gives up a bit on feel okay but being mid-engine
it has a different dynamic you know and the way it feels and so i feel like the lease and
exige are the modern super seven in my opinion so we're honing in here we're moving away from
some of the erector set cars we're moving to things that are too raw and so now we're focusing
on something that has a little bit more usability maybe something that would make it so you don't
necessarily feel embarrassed when you're driving it is this so far so good Blair i don't think i'd
be embarrassed driving any of those things but yeah from a usability standpoint and yeah i i think
i've got to get a little more comfortable usable mainstream you never driven the aerial atom the
looks you get an error oh that's we're going by the way it's new the look the looks we uh you'll
get an aerial atom aren't always the most positive looks people look at you like you're crazy so you
have to be ready for crazy looks right so let's okay i don't know i view all those cars it's like
a fourth fifth car and maybe i'm wrong but for my lifestyle i don't have five cars so well but you
also said something you want to be able to drive every day so they'll take that into consideration
all right now let's move on to i think everyone will agree is common ground and let's talk about
chenu's expertise which are lotus at least as an exige and so a lot of these other types of things
so in our notes i've got the lotus at least exige mazam yada which we've already talked about
the alpina a 110 which we can't get here the alpha 4c and she knew i watched your video talking
about the 4c i had i've had two i've had a coupe and i've had a spider and i frankly i
agreed with everything you said we'll talk about they're great cars yeah they are great
they're gorgeous too you know yeah really really italian you know yeah and we're going to talk about
that the twins the toyota and the supra the gr86 and the br7 so brz so these are all cars so far
that you consider blare yeah okay yes all right now um let's go through the list of those are there
any you just just not interested well obviously alpina's off the list you can't get it here the
alpine sorry yeah well i mean brz gr86 i i've never driven the new one i've driven the prior gen
the scion frs um which became the gt86 and you know i'll never forget that when i when i went to
drive one of those i pulled out of a dealer parking lot and then i wanted to go the other
direction and immediately behind the wheel of that car i knew well i'm flipping this thing and doing
a 180 you know oversteer kicking the back end around and so when you talk about lightweight cars
engaging cars now i personally don't like the motor in that first gen you know 86 so we scratching
off the list yeah but man that was a fun car so i like them i think they're really fun the the
balance is really good they're just to me they're the coop equivalent of a miata but isn't this amazing
i mean here we are easily going through a list of these cars that are not that expensive and like
these the toyota subaru combination of things or even the lowest thing that these these cars are just
freaking awesome for the money it makes you question your sandy or at least makes me question my
sandy why you would spend so much more money if you're just after a very specific set of driving
experiences like what blair is expressing which everyone if they really peel back their layers
a lot of people just buy for ego they just buy just basically try to impress their friends
i would say that's a big part of it you know and if your italian engineer is correct and then you
know size plays a part in that whole feeling right yeah well i mean and that this is something
i'm just going to talk about it because it's controversial but i mean i don't need to be
controversial but it is something i actually think is true there's definitely a faction in
the Porsche world between new Porsche and old Porsche and i didn't realize that until um julie and i went
to a event in called moda miami in miami of all places right and there were um it was a gorgeous
show it was an rm auction everything you'd expect magnus was there the whole you know all the normal
Porsche people flew in from la but then the i did not realize that the gt3 rs has become the new
lamborghini i didn't realize that the new uh gt3 rs was the new flex car i had no clue until i'd
actually seen it in that environment you know i just don't pay attention to that stuff and then i
started thinking well is well it is miami too right so well but true but true but these same
cats would have been the ones driving lamborghini's you know i'm saying they had that the whole yeah
but it's definitely the influencer car right the gt3 rs i mean it's kind of when did that happen
when did that happen to new probably the last couple years i mean i don't follow influencers
okay i mean when magnus wafer came on this on the scene you know as the urban outlaw i'm like
who's this guy i'd never even heard of him i've been living in california here and and so the
influencer thing you know there's a whole community a whole world out there of people that are you
they've got their own kind of agenda and lifestyle and things that yeah so the gt3 rs is certainly
bubbled to the top as the the new go-to car i think and so why why do you think just because
it looks well i think one i mean look it's a Porsche i mean it's a wonderful brand you know
but the 911 is is one of the most iconic sports cars ever right so it's got all the credentials
it's got the heritage they race okay that's a key thing they race so they get the credibility of
from everyone anyone that understands racing says yeah these guys are out there and they're
winning right and so you know and then you look at that thing it's like oh my god this new gt3 rs
it's so wild you know the wing is huge the vents are everywhere you know the car is you know it's
visually you know just an overload right i think i think that's the reason because the influencers
yeah i think that's going to basically get clicks and as soon as they go off to the next thing i'm
part of the influence culture either i have no clue about it i just mean my 12 year old daughter
i mean she's i learned more from her about all this stuff than i'll ever know but the the problem
the problem i see is that and uh as Porsche seems to be catering more towards that buyer
because that buyer is willing to pay up for option packages that maybe if an old Porsche or a more
traditional Porsche a buyer wouldn't have bought and and i'm worried what's going to happen to the
brand they're probably going to care less about weight and look at the new gt3 rs that's going
to be turbocharged i mean it didn't they swear that they would never make a turbocharged gt3
and here we go so i'm not really sure what's happening do you guys have any thoughts on that
Blair what are you thinking um i'm thinking a lot of stuff it's it is i've told a bunch of people
about my experience with my gt4 i had a couple of 981 gt4s and guys that buy gt cars or gals
that buy them i've uh i've i've told a bunch of them hey don't drive them on track or the car
might be ruined for you because that's exactly what happened to me as soon as i got to a level
where i could start exploiting what the car was capable of doing and i saw what it could do
i quickly had no interest to drive the car in the canyons it was i mean especially with that car
the gearing is really tall like most manual 911s came in boxers are um but the limits are so high
on those cars so you know i i always find it a little interesting that and again incredible
brand like chenille said i love the brand um i sometimes wish i liked it less but you can't
deny what they've turned out over the last you know 30 40 50 years and and what they've continued
to some extent still make today even though they're starting to lose me as well but i i i i get a
kick out of those who buy the cars and they really just don't know what they have that's the new
that's the new Porsche buyer and that so what i think ultimately what i'm what i think chenille
is doing is he's identifying in the marketplace and i think there's more people that are going to
be interested in his philosophy than say for example that are going to be interested in just
essentially an influencer or a flex car and and so where i'm hoping and maybe it's just me
fooling myself is that these manufacturers are going to start realizing that there is a real
demand a real interest especially in this day and age of a and a i where people want to have real
tactical experiences again and i i might be wrong but i don't think i am um i know that's
what i want and i think once younger people have the sim similar experiences yeah they might buy
for prestige or whatever for brand to impress their friends but when they drive something that
they really feel connected with i mean what the hell products do you drive what do you experience
nowadays other than a a really good analog car or a race car that you actually feel attached to
do you guys feel attached to anything that you own i mean seriously attached like you feel
you know what i'm saying is there anything in your life a product that you bought that you feel
really attached to well i've got sentimental value with my whole bmw but you know i'll move on
from that and on to the next experience at some point there's no doubt what about you should
know is there anything you feel really attached to other than automotive stuff you know i i create
a lot of stuff right and so for me i fall in love with things for sure and what i love is the experience
that i have with it you know um i i've been riding motorcycles for 36 years but there was a period
of time for a couple of years where i stopped riding because we started having kids and then
i got back into it and i and i bought another ducati and i said i'm never gonna sell this one
right and so in my head i may never sell that one and it may just live in my you know i i ride it
now but at some point it may just become you know a piece of artwork for me to look at right but cars
yeah i mean look i love cars and and but i'm not a collector i don't collect them i i own them so
that i can modify and enjoy them the way i want and and then i have all the memories in my head
about what you know i did with that car and and so yeah i'm not terribly sentimental about the
car itself or the motorcycle or the watch or whatever it's more about the experience that
i've had with it so we're narrowing it down by the way this is a e-bike i bought how cool is that
right okay yeah i know it's a beachman 64 and it's built on a uh real honda 1960s honda motorcycle
chassis and then i think it's yeah it's that thing weighs 220 pounds with the battery so
that's not a real e-bike yeah yeah all right so we have now narrowed it down the good doctors have
nailed it down to the the lotus family um you're seem to be receptive to maybe a miata and an alpha
or male four c um between the lotus and the alpha and i agree with chenuz uh takeaway on this having
had both of those cars knowing you blare i will almost guarantee you like the lotus better
yeah i i haven't gotten to drive the alise very far it was a very short drive and it took me as
long to get in and out of the cars it did the opportunity to drive it that i had um and keep
you young blare keep you flexible man yeah well that's what our wife keeps telling me you use it
or lose it but there you go the top up you can just right click click roll it up get in click
click roll back down i will say i drove a four c somewhat in anger and when i say that we were
we were ripping around town it wasn't it wasn't on a track it wasn't and i got out of that and i
said you know the old expression now you know i i need a cigarette after that experience i'm like
that's what that car did for me it was kind of crappy but i kind of loved it it was like
you know just forget everything you thought you knew about cars this thing was snarly and
character out the wazoo but you know no manual it's not something i think i would take on a
racetrack um so yeah i think you're you're right i would rather have a lotus alise probably over
an exige because i i like convertibles too that's another little tidbit okay that's good to know
you taking this into account for when we give him his prescription here doctors absolutely
absolutely but we haven't talked about the avora oh but he has something else in mind see look at
his look at his screensaver yeah i know i know and so that's why i want to make sure the avora
gets mentioned because let's go let's talk about okay listen the the emira which is in blairs backdrop
is a wonderful sports car it's a really good car um you know if you're looking for more amenities and
comfort and and the latest in styling that car wins okay but if you're looking for a sports car
the avora gt is better better steering response better you know feeling they both share you know
the v6 um 3.5 liter out of a toyota that doesn't sound like it could be cool but it is really cool
because it sounds wonderful don't they modify it's a long block straight from toyota or is it
it is yeah no so again remember one of the things with car manufacturers is you've got to homologate
your powertrain for emissions okay and every configuration okay so you know you have to test
each configuration and so what lotus have been able to do is kind of ride toyota's coattails
because toyota did all the kind of heavy lifting on emissions and so as long as lotus doesn't crack
the block and do something else to it they can ride you know some of the emissions testing that
toyota did so yeah the avora gt blare can be had for well under your you know your target price
and it's exceptional i would really encourage you to go drive the car you like that over the amirah
really i do 100 as a sports car yes no question about it i'll take the amirah for more comfort and
luxury and in modern amenities but i've driven both of these now the amirah and the avora gt
but okay you know but before i get into that um don't you think you're kind of a lotus guy i think
i think most car guys pull for lotus we all want them to stick around we all want them to do well
i would like to own one at some point don't you think the the the alignment and alliance with
toyota and their powertrains was like brilliant decision for them because i think otherwise
that that's one thing that keeps them relevant is none of us are scared of the powertrains on those
cars true exactly no i think it was one of their best business decisions you know frankly in the
last 25 years so yeah it's producing your own powertrain is such a huge expense most of car
manufacturers that do that they have a separate group powertrain group that that's all they work
on and they're as big as the platform groups you know so the investment required to produce your
own engine is significant so yeah smart decision by lotus and yeah it's it's completely eased a lot
of concerns that enthusiasts have like ah you know lotus is you know lots of trouble usually serious
right and and so i think that yeah i'm with ebler and it's proven out to be a good good solution
because the two zz and the elise exige have been wonderful and you know the the v6 that's been in
the ebora and now mirrors have been really good and now they they put a force under amg motor as well
in the mirror i was going to ask you about that so what do you have you driven the the i4 the the
engine motor i have you have you blare yeah i'm not i'm not and so so what's obviously the paddle
shifter versus manual is that the lynch that the sighting factory and noise yeah it's look it's
it's obviously a more approachable car for people that don't know how to drive stick shift and
for folks that are looking for you look the the the jury is not out okay the the it's the ship
has sailed when it comes to what's faster on the racetrack paddle shift versus manual okay paddle
shift is just faster that's just all the risk to it and but for real driver engagement and fun the
manual transmission is still the way to go and so i i prefer the v6 manual in mirror to the i4
even though the i4 is slightly lighter and has more power potential in the long run
we've just been tuning actually um an i4 just this past week and making really good power
from the car but you know it's a turbo four-cylinder it doesn't sound terribly exciting and so
i think brayer is looking for a little bit more of an exhilarating experience and sound to me is
part of that and i think for him too you you you said it has to have two seats right
yeah it can be a two plus two okay but it can't have one seat it has to see
well it's because i got one cedar right here baby have you have you seen that have you seen
this thing uh shaniel i have i mean it's it's um you know like the bc model is a single cedar right
and so this is another similar right this is the ry n um p3 or uh i forget the sp3 maybe
and any of that okay this is kind of vaporware now but he's gonna start selling these in a year
it's built on what amounts to a formula three chassis i think and he's made him he's gotten it
so they can be street legal so but blare it's only one it's only a one-seater well you want
me to tell you how he's doing it how you say uh let me show you i'll show you a picture that's
how he's doing it so they're being sold as three-wheelers okay right and as and he's already
got a dot approved and so he's a kid it's a kid and no no he's selling these at a fourth wheel
he's these can be 50 state titled without a motorcycle license because it's got three wheels
okay and he's going to include a kit in every one of them that you can then convert it to that
okay so you can just basically change out the back it's got a uh what he told me a ridiculous
motorcycle motor in it you know sequential shifter the whole nine yards and so he's he's
going to sell that car for 75 to 100 thousand dollars that's what he thinks yeah good luck
it needs to be a lot more than that for him to actually make this a good business case well
so i'm interested in because you like i'm we're going to move forward and talk about some of
the cars you've actually created from ground up explain so in case he's listening so listen i i've
got a lot of experience in this boutique car space i have seen behind the curtains of quite a few
these brands okay from ariel to bac um you know we made our own car the dracon right singer too
you yeah singer i know singer very very well um rob dickinson's a friend of mine their new ceo is
my fraternity brother i've known for 40 years and so you know look i think that building a boutique car
is really really difficult it's it's financially a really really trying in and difficult proposition
and that's why these carbon big car manufacturers will outsource it right so for example four doesn't
make the gtd or the four gt it's being produced by a company called multi-matic all right multi-matic
are like a two billion dollar automotive parts manufacturer that makes the money doing suspensions
and tailgate mechanisms and since you know like four to 150 you know suspension components so but
then they have this arm that does these boutique cars and so that outsourcing process is what
typically happens with car manufacturers when they're trying to build these boutique cars so yeah i
mean look he's he's um it's so difficult to build a car at that price point without volume okay and
a car that is as impractical as that car right i introduced the bac mono in in the us so i really
know we sold 15 of those cars um and and we understand the challenge of of once you know
selling them and building them and frankly homologating them for for road use so you know
the mono is arguably you know in this boutique class one of the most beautiful cars ever designed
you know incredibly well made too they're beautiful not just to look at it too they're gorgeous they're
gorgeous every there's so many details i mean it's just amazing really and and and you know
they're on the second generation car which is what you're looking at there and you know they
they address some of the the issues from the first car to make this one actually you know
better to build um without taking away from the styling in fact i would i would argue the styling
this one's even better you know but they're yeah it's it's a very difficult space um 75 to 100
thousand dollars well that the the bac is like 300 grand right 275 to 300 yeah when it launched in
the us it was at about 135 oh my gosh yeah it was way too low it was far too low it was well below
their bill of materials you know and so do they know it she knew when they started selling them
did they you know they kind of felt some pressure that they had to compete with the aerial atoms at
the time and i argued otherwise you know once i got to know them got to understand what was going on
there you know i went out there and we had lots of meetings um and you know part of it was like
look if you want to make this financially sustainable you've got to get at a price point
where you can actually try to make money okay but it's it's it's a struggle it's an absolute struggle
you know we made our own car the dracon right two seat mid-engine ls powered and that car you know
it's it's such a fun car we've built nine of them and the amount of money it takes to kind of keep
building these cars is it's it's significant you know but my contention is when you build an analog
car like this it doesn't go out of style as far as the feeling that you get from driving right and so
that's why you know we're not trying to chase the hypercar numbers we can't we were too small of a
company most of these small car manufacturers they can't do that right singer you know builds one of
the most absolute beautiful cars ever right but they're for the similar money you can have
significantly faster car on the racetrack or in the canyons what you name it right but
it's arguably one of the most beautiful cars you can buy so yeah i don't know i mean i wish him well
you know he can certainly reach out to me if he wants to talk you know but it's it's it's a real
real difficult challenge brilliant boutique car in that price range i'll connect you actually so what
would be blair so far what are you thinking because remember you're here i'm meeting with the good
doctors where's your mind going with all this because because i got news we're confusing him he
was a little confusing i'm already confused he was like him that amirah well but let's be honest
going back to lotus that amirah omg is that thing gorgeous holy that is not ugly anywhere
from any angle which is good luck with i mean beautiful design so i'll tell you my thoughts
briefly about amirah versus avora gt and shinu i have limited experience with each of them and i'm
talking i've driven them once each probably 10 15 20 minutes um i preferred the seating position
in the avora gt i actually like those seats i actually maybe one of those crazy guys that
i prefer the interior to the uh to the avora gt i i love i love the analog gauges i love you know
the exhaust buttons right there you know on the on the dash um i all of that stuff i'm into i think
i think we're getting somewhere shinu do you feel are you feeling it i think so i think so i feel
it so maybe maybe you can maybe you can help me address and every car for me i've learned has got
at least one thing that bugs the crap out of me and i wouldn't say it bugs the crap out of me but
i've really disliked in the avora gt and that is the throttle response felt a little bit wonky to me
compared to the amirah so it seemed like when you're blipping the throttle it wasn't as consistent
you know to match your revs and i worry a little about heel and toe on a racetrack if the throttle's
not Porsche perfect older BMW perfect you know those kind of things that um and then obviously
the looks of the amirah to tim's point i like the way the avora looks especially if you get it in
the right color but it's um it it's certainly a car i've considered owning um the thing i did not
like about the amirah was at six two i sat i sit really high in that car and so you know the seating
position's high you know all the things that Porsche does perfectly see to me anyways is like
you know that that i sat a little too high um but but otherwise it's throttle response they nailed
i don't love the tachometer you know that give the gauge cluster um i'm whatever about the infotainment
that's not the primary use case for this car right and then they just look spectacular those
those amirah so they are both on a short list absolutely you're not making our job easier
here son this is where we're going here we thought we were landing the planes on an avora
i went out we thought we were there but and now you're letting us out yeah i would say to you blur
you know the the throttle response can be addressed with a tune okay so so that certainly can be
addressed we've tuned those avoras up to well over 500 horsepower if you were so inclined you
don't need to do that but it truly transforms the car into a supercar but the the reality is that
throttle response is just um that can be fixed okay um here's the good news is they they've fallen
in value and they're kind of leveling out so you could get into this car enjoy it for a year if you
don't like it you will get out of it for probably what you paid or maybe a little bit more because
they are starting to go back up in value so always kind of a consideration you know i i bought a use
911 in the late 90s and then i enjoyed the car for about three three four years and then i sold it
for the same amount that i that i bought it and that was the first time in my life i bought a new
car and and i bought a car and didn't lose my ass on it you know and so it was you know this may be
like with an avora you might have the same kind of thing so the cost to get in and use it may not
be too big an issue well so let's let's focus here because we're trying to accomplish a goal here
or maybe i am so if you so between the lease and the exige i'm gonna attempt you with another
picture i'm in throwing pictures up here just drive you crazy i'm i'm intentionally trying to
add a little bit of a stress to your decision making here um so there's a s2 uh those are these
are you know hundred thousand dollars so you know what that is an exige 260 or what is it yeah yeah
s2 60 yeah okay so and then of course you've got the alpha 4c but we kind of we're kind of bearing
off both those because you want to convert he needs a manual he needs a manual any manual that's true
so that's okay i got it so now if we're going to focus in and you mentioned Porsche again i know
that's going to be bouncing around your head this isn't the price range too isn't it i think it is
oh absolutely the 987 spider yeah 987 spider uh i think you know you had one of those up already
yeah well i've got this is the 718 gts i i think you know you you can't have the discussion and
not talk about Porsche that's just so let's do it avora versus the equivalent Porsche in the same
price range because we're gonna keep it less than 100 grand let's go and and you know for me
i would go almost always box drew over Cayman just because if you're gonna use this thing and i've
driven him with the top up and i live in a cold climate part of the year you hardly know you're
in a convertible frankly so i other than if you don't like the look of it and i know they get
a lot of hate you know boxers or convertibles do from from the masses i don't see why you would do
a Cayman over a boxer i really did unless it was like primary use case was track um
and and so yeah when i when i think about so i had the the uh opportunity to drive in a mirror
and a 718 box or four liter back to back and you know the uh Porsche nails everything from an
ergonomic standpoint i mean the Amira shifter is awesome so you can't say that it's it's any
less good than the uh the boxer shifter but you know you you get into the Porsche and everything
just feels perfect maybe almost too much so and because of that they don't feel as special as the
lotuses to me um but this car sounds fantastic you got to get rid of the opf filters you know and
and uh let the exhaust breathe a little bit kind of like the 98 ones did um so the word just the
word doesn't come in a spider though so if you're saying a vor if you if the if the not not negotiable
is the you know spider convertible aspect of it doesn't that rule the avora out there's one
other car that i think you might want to consider beyond this that i happen to know if she knew
might have for sale um i don't think that's a non-negotiable but i really like the idea of getting
a getting an open top experience you know this coming year um but that so i think that's the
trade-off do you want more special which i would argue the Amira and the avora GT are um then it
came in boxer or do you want open top probably better on track even even as a boxer and a car
that is just easy to own really really easy to own and that's when you start adding up pain but
you know you have to figure out which of those you weight more heavily and that's what i like
many car guys struggle to do you would think she knew had a great point though if you you can get in
and out of one of these and not lose any money on them and have the experience so it seems to me
like it's time for you to chase the lotus it feels it i i have a hard time arguing that it's
it feels like the next progression i've owned a lot of stuff including a look at that picture
isn't that gorgeous yeah that's the jimmy clark edition that amira is so cool have you seen one
like in real life have you seen one i i haven't but you know what i love about that is the interior
it's got an asymmetric interior oh the driver's the driver's seat is red
passenger seat is black you mean like that exactly corvette they both are doing it the same year
it was it's kind of interesting yeah it's uh oh my god it's cool that's cool i'm a Ferrari guy but
i'm telling you right now that's as good looking as anything coming out of marinello for sure
yeah amazing all right for 100 grand it's hard to argue it's it is pretty cool whether more
she may let me like 120 108 yeah yeah that's true negotiate the lotus yeah i'll buy a prion too
i have no problem with that it's gotta but if you can get an engine honestly if you can get one of
those i mean what do you think she knew 100 grand it's not a spider though well it's your money
brother and it's a man it's an automatic not a manual so maybe this isn't going to be good for
you oh no you can get that in manual sorry yeah yeah v6 you can absolutely get that in manual
chenille let me ask you a question um three track days a year in a lotus amira i understand
an avora gt probably is set up better to do that yeah um what's your take how frustrating
wouldn't amira be on track in your opinion three times a year no it's not going to be it's going
to be great it's going to be a lot of fun you're going to enjoy it i think look i mean to to the
to your point about steering earlier and the differences between camons and and like the
lotuses whether it's an avora or an amira um i think the steering on lotuses is still
superior i just drove a gt4 on the street came in wonderful car but you know the steering was good
but it's not lotus like you know and again we're splitting hairs here right we're talking about
things that are nuanced but i think you appreciate that so i think you should give the lotus a try
and you know we haven't talked about the lease too much because you're on the taller side but
we have guys that are your height and taller that only leases and exesias can you take the top off
can you lower the seats like you can you can yeah yeah we've got a particular seat we call our big
boy seat which um like we're designed for tall guys yeah and broad guys okay let me just be honest
okay the stock seats are kind of uncomfortable for people with with broader wastes so we created a
seat that really works nicely for them and we've saved more than one person from selling the car
they just put the seat in they're like oh my god now i fit so i'm curious about this so are you
talking is it a was it tillet seat is that what it is well we we had it's a carbon seat that we had
custom made for us up and it's being made for us in LA yeah and and companies called technocrat
but yeah i really took the the seat out of my 06 exige brand new and i handed them the seat and i
said okay here's what i need okay and they they made this for us and so it's been a great seat
you know it's practical it just works and so i think we should do there okay you need to fly
out to southern california okay you need to come see me okay i would love to yeah you need to take
this 11 rs of ours for for a drive because you can have it under 100 grand okay this thing is awesome
it is so fun and you know yes it's gonna fit you like a glove okay you're gonna feel like you're
in a small car but the experience that you're gonna have with that car i'm telling you from a feel
from a sound from just a pure performance perspective matt ferrell just borrowed that car
last week and he was driving it up in the canyons and then i met him at streets will that's what
why i was at will last week and he put up a little a podcast about his his experience with it and he
liked it you know and he's a bigger dude too you know and so he's like ah you know the way i fit in
it you know and so again this is what's happening is when we get used to these bigger cars getting
into a smaller car feels a little bit more compromised but i think we should give it a go i
think that would be something for you to think about it is a third car so when i say i want to
use it all the time it's not well let's talk in fridays and the weekends you know not not
so this one this one 11 rs which i did you study this part of the show did you have chance to do
a little bit yeah i think i watched one of your videos on it shaneu right okay he's basically
doing uh without making it too fancy making it something you could daily drive he's so when
i bought my 05 Elise that's how i originally did business shaneu way back when is like there
are certain aspects of it i didn't like the shifter i thought the you know i'd love to drive
the understeer aspect of it was a little annoying to be honest and there are other things about it
maybe it was my crappy driving i don't know but of course shaneu had a solution yes it had to be
yeah exactly shaneu had a solution all of my problems um and then after i had to modify it i
of course wasn't keeping track of how much money i was spending along the way but after i went through
everything it really did transform the car and made it a lot more enjoyable for me to use but what
he's doing and if you guys aren't you know tuned into this it's called a lotus 111 rs where he
takes you know obviously a s2 Elise and he's making it he's going through stem to stern
rose joint suspension bits uh high in nitron shocks and right am i correct nitron he's rebuilding
nitrons of race tax but yeah absolutely basically you know essentially a race uh derived build on
the Toyota motor transmission has gone through the whole thing from stem to stern takes care of all
the foibles that maybe a novice like me would have complained about it makes it into a turnkey
thing which frankly Blair sounds like exactly what you're looking for provided you fit shaneu do you
retain the target top or you we do we do so the top on that car comes off it's a heart removable
hard top but we also have a soft top for it too so if you want it to have that flexibility it's
easy to do absolutely yeah i mean listen this car was built and designed engineered to be a canyon
carver first yes you can go to the racetrack but it's got reasonable ground clearance so it's not
going to be the best track day car you know the suspension is not the stiffest okay we actually
were steering towards compliance because we wanted it to work on these bumpy canyons so the car is
really about it's for drivers first really that are driving on the street and do occasional track
days so but yeah we we'd certainly improve the shifter and and you know the feeling that you
get even the steering is faster so it's it's pretty visceral the car why didn't you put
i'm curious what your take is those are gorgeous wheels they look like they look like furry f50
wheels by the way that's actually that was my influence i designed those wheels they're forged
for us in japan but the f50 wheels were that was actually one of my influences there is such a
there's a video on obviously youtube about their i figure out japanese wheel manufacturers and how
they do magnesium cast wheels do you know what i'm talking about remember the name of the company
it is the coolest thing if you can find it if you guys should find it again i don't remember the name
of the brand but they literally make cast magnesium wheels and i had no idea how complicated it was
it was such a cool video to watch but my question is is why didn't you put on carbon you know carbon
fiber wheels or even magnesium's on that why did you go that way so these are forged aluminum wheels
okay so cast magnesium is not as strong or frankly as light and there's a lots of reliability
this was forged sorry if i said yeah that's what's good yeah all right so cast magnesium is awesome
but they're really expensive okay and it was just beyond the price point of what i felt my customers
would spend um carbon wheels okay when you're when your wheels are really big there's some advantage
to carbon but smaller wheels that are carbon you know less advantage than a forged aluminum wheel
you know just look there are certain materials or certain processes that are so refined
that it's hard to improve upon that without spending cubic dollars and so forged aluminum
was still for most sports cars really the best material and process to produce a light strong
wheel so what you can build one from fresh you don't have to buy his demo by the way Blair yeah
absolutely so yeah we can build you one speaking of what i mean i love that you don't material choices
matter a car that i do love now we're getting way well further away from lightweight
two-seat sports cars is a shelby gt 350 and 350 r that that is maybe my favorite American driving
experience i've ever had and might have been my answer for the question what heavy car is still
so engaging and like fun to chuck around it's but the problem with the r they put carbon wheels on
that car and i was talking to a guy who owns one recently he said he uh he just needed a new tire
for one of his 350 r carbon wheels the dealer would not touch it he couldn't find a shop that would
just not repair the wheel but replace a tire on that thing but you know they were too scared to
touch these things and damage them and the cost right um so you know i so he went to replica
wheels i think a lot of those guys but the 350 r's are like they've gone to a replica you know
that's not that's not carbon but is there a special thing to take a carbon i didn't even i hadn't
thought about that it was that just the installer skill setters there's some special equipment
necessary you guys know both yeah i mean both really both and and that's a real issue and so
like that's the problem with new technologies like this new materials there you know you'll end up having
you know run into some maintenance related kind of headaches and so yeah that that doesn't surprise
me we had actually commissioned for the Ford GT new forged wheels from bbs the their FIR wheel
and bbs make the original forged wheel for the GT but then the carbon wheel comes from another
manufacturer Australia right yeah exactly and so such an expensive wheel and if you ding one of
things wow so we we commissioned bbs to produce these FIR wheels which are extremely light they're
almost as light as a carbon wheel for a fraction of the money they're so expensive but fantastic
wheels and that was really to address that whole issue of people getting you know freaked out about
oh my god and these carbon wheels of what am i curbing them or i drive them you know like one
thing people don't know like these old magnesium wheels they have an age limit on them and you
literally if you're on a formula one car i think they can only race them for a certain amount of
laps and then they have to take them off for the reasons they see it the structural integrity of
them they start to unglu themselves i mean wheels are consumable on a race car you don't run them
forever there is an absolute time cap on on wheels well you know the one thing i was thinking about
is the better car is on track the more compromised it is obviously on the street and you know tim
you both have experience driving more like race car borderline or not street legal race cars i do
not i've taken i i i think about street cars what i like and i want to be able to take them out there
three times a year let's call it for a full track day um so but but i like hearing you've kept
ride height you know at a more usable level and right there's that fine line of what what we have
the elephant in the room here is i've always wanted a gt3 like every other car enthusiast 911 and
but but i've learned going back to that idea of well once you really know what they're capable
of it's hard to get your jollies on the street because it's not safe to push such an incredible
machine as hard as you could push those so the the only car that's similar to a lotus and his
lotus the 111 rs is way more special than a g a 996 gt3 have you driven one of those chenille
hi oh yeah have you guys either one of you driven one yes yes i have yeah no traction control just
abs you know and those cars now are they're above your budget that's the reason it wasn't on my list
frankly but but i'll i'll suggest this and then go and drive a normal lease because those have
never depreciated never appreciated they're 40 grand forever now basically and they're going up in
value now yeah that doesn't that doesn't surprise me and then go dry and then and then drive his car
and i'm positive you will feel the significant differences because when i was modifying our
lease it just made it better because you have to do work with someone who's an actual engineer
not just selling parts right but at the end of the day those are i guess fire you that would be the
direction i would go because you've got to have that experience to know what you're missing frankly
because the Porsche thing does not especially when you go to the gt stuff those cars are more
special but other than that the Porsche experience is at this point it's very similar from one
version to the another but that car his car or really any Lotus that's special one of the
true special cars that are left on planet earth that you can buy if you think about it well and
you know we talk about my r8 that's what it was lacking for me is steering feel frankly that
that was one of those and what it did best and i love that car i don't know that i've ever owned
or heard a car that sounded better than that four two with an exhaust on it and all of the inputs
are pretty good and it's like but but when i jumped in that amirah shinu this the thing that
immediately stood out to me was the night and day difference in feedback precision i mean that
there is it was a great lesson in steering feel going from my r8 to the amirah the other day and
and i hear the lease again i've driven it not far at all is only heightens that sensation of
manual steering the r8 for a different buyer right i mean ultimately the r8 you know it's not
really targeting the same person it's targeting maybe a i want to be a look like a car enthusiast
where shinu's cars are you're not driving one of those damn things unless you truly love driving
period yeah i think it goes back to use case that my favorite thing to do in the r8 was get on
the freeway and commute you know i did a couple of road trips in it with one of my kids and i'm
like this is really fun there's it the way it would glide down a highway and and it just made
beautiful noises and was so silky smooth and i really do like that car but it's just not
it was never a car i was going to put on a racetrack um and and it was a great contrast going from
the old 911 to that to driving a lotus it's like okay steering feel does matter quite a bit
all right so the doctors now are going to put our notes together so what do you think doctor
mapleton what do you think and he's just going to listen now we're gonna have our doctor
conference what do you think he should get i think the lotus is the right answer you know
a lotus of some sort because i think it's going to give a different enough experience
from what you've already had recently in particular that that's the direction i would like to suggest
that you go in the one of an rs is on the one spectrum of being smaller and more raw and the
you know emira is more on the luxurious and more insulated side but i think any lotus
is going to be a new experience that i think you're going to enjoy blare i concur
i concur having had all of these cars i can tell you for sure that the lotus is it's what i touched
on you could argue the alpha 4c is also a unique car but if i had to do a lower again i would get
to definitely get a lower so for an alpha 4c and i had two 4c's you know so at the end of the day
blare you're a car enthusiast you've been up and down the mountain a number of times you have to
have the experience at least know what you're saying no to that would be what the good doctors
will suggest for you today i like it thank you so much you're welcome so he's invited you to
visit him in southern california and he's got some sweet driving roads there's a great driving
road what is it called between the coast and where your shop is or tag a highway or tag a highway
right as long as you're not out there when all the slow cameras are toiling around there's a great
little cafe that's up there it's a point you can look way into the distance julie and i used to do
that almost every weekend when we lived in laguna beach i'll definitely suggest that for you yeah in
the alice of course so guys that was full throttle talk for today let us know what you think give us
some comments if you love the show give us a five-star review like and subscribe and all the other
things i'm supposed to be saying right now which hopefully i know what most of them mean but in
the meantime shinu blare thank you for your time today hope you guys had fun and we'll talk absolutely
we'll talk to everyone next week take care thanks guys
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