Silverstone’s Porsche Experience Center sets the stage for a Michelin-powered chat that blends tire geekery with iconic car-and-tyre stories. The crew debates track-focused rubber vs everyday all-rounders, including Cup 2 vs Cup 2 R, and corrects a prior rumor about the Hyundai i30N returning (it’s effectively dead outside Australia). Guest Joe (Michelin technical manager) shares first Michelin experiences, then the episode pivots to a tire launch: Primacy 5 Energy for comfort/efficiency and Pilot Sport 5 Energy for sporty feel, noise reduction, and low rolling resistance—tested on wet and handling circuits.
"[13.7s] powered by Michelin.
[15.5s] We're here in Silverstone Porsche Experience Center."
Michelin is a well-known tire company that also makes performance tires for racing. If they’re powering the show, it likely means the discussion will be about tires and traction.
Michelin is a major global tire manufacturer and a key name in motorsport and performance tires. When a podcast is “powered by Michelin,” it usually signals the episode will focus on tires, grip, and how rubber choices affect driving feel.
"[15.5s] We're here in Silverstone Porsche Experience Center.
[18.8s] We are."
Porsche Experience Centers are special places where you can drive Porsche cars and learn how they handle. It’s like a guided driving experience and showroom combined.
Porsche Experience Centers are branded venues where owners and guests can drive Porsche cars on curated tracks and learn vehicle dynamics. Being at the Silverstone Porsche Experience Center suggests the conversation is tied to a hands-on driving or display environment.
"Do you have Bibendum in your name at all? I don't know, but I have Bibendum everywhere else. On your jacket."
Bibendum is the Michelin Man—the mascot for Michelin tires. They’re joking about the character being on his jacket.
Bibendum is the Michelin “Michelin Man,” a tire-themed character used in the brand’s long-running advertising. The joke here is about whether the guest’s name includes Bibendum, and the host points out it appears on his jacket.
"not to just have a quick chat about that 992 GT3 RS
Manta racing that's parked behind Joe."
This is a Porsche 911 GT3 RS from the 992 generation. It’s the super-aggressive, track-oriented version, and it’s famous for huge aerodynamic parts that help it stick to the road.
“992 GT3 RS” refers to the Porsche 911 GT3 RS built on the 992 generation platform. The GT3 RS is Porsche’s track-focused, aero-heavy variant, known for aggressive styling and downforce-focused bodywork.
"It's on Pilot Sport Cup 2s.
But imagine that Cup 2 RS day like today around Silverstone."
Pilot Sport Cup 2 is a Michelin tire made for track driving. It’s built to grip hard and stay consistent when you’re pushing the car on a circuit.
Pilot Sport Cup 2 is a track-focused performance tire from Michelin. It’s designed for high grip and consistent performance during spirited driving and circuit use, typically with a softer compound than everyday tires.
"[233.6s] Is it rubber compound, tread pattern?
[237.0s] That's it, yeah."
The rubber compound is the “recipe” of the tyre’s sticky top layer. It affects how much grip you get and how long the tyre lasts, especially after it warms up.
A tyre’s rubber compound is the specific blend of materials in the tread. Different compounds are tuned for grip, wear rate, and how the tyre behaves once it reaches operating temperature.
"[255.0s] as I'm sure you guys have experienced yourselves,
[257.5s] it just gives that level of grip that it's just...
[259.8s] Unrivaled."
Grip is how much traction the tyre can create. More grip means the car can corner harder and brake more effectively.
Grip is the frictional force between the tyre and the road surface. On track tyres, grip is heavily influenced by compound temperature, tread design, and how the tyre is loaded during cornering.
"was the Hyundai i30N, and it was coming back as a hybrid."
A hybrid uses both a gas engine and an electric motor. The electric part can help the car feel quicker and may use less fuel. But adding hybrid hardware can also change how the car drives.
A hybrid powertrain combines an internal-combustion engine with an electric motor and battery. When a performance model is rumored to go hybrid, it usually means the car could gain electric assist for response and potentially improve efficiency. However, hybridizing a hot hatch can also change weight distribution and driving feel, so it’s a big deal for enthusiasts.
"[413.0s] Unfortunately, all the X-pengs are still coming
[415.8s] and in most of the BYDs, but never mind.
[418.3s] Yeah."
They mean BYD, a company that makes electric cars. If BYDs are coming in volume, it affects what tire options and sizes people will be dealing with.
“BYDs” refers to BYD, a major Chinese automaker known for EVs and plug-in hybrids. Mentioning BYD in the context of “what’s coming” signals the discussion is partly about which new EV models will influence tire fitment and availability.
"...which I probably never get around to doing because it doesn't make economic sense, but putting a fresh rubber on it just made the car feel really tight..."
“Fresh rubber” is enthusiast slang for installing new tires. New tires restore tread depth and traction, often making an older car feel dramatically tighter and more predictable, especially in wet conditions.
"it was a real buzz word and car that back then it was, you know, it was the hot hatch of the time and I still think one of the best hot hatches ever"
A “hot hatch” is a regular hatchback that’s been tuned to be faster and more fun to drive. It usually comes with sportier tires than a typical family car.
A “hot hatch” is a performance-focused hatchback tuned for quick acceleration and sharper handling than a normal compact. The term matters because it usually implies a balance of everyday practicality with sporty tires and suspension calibration.
"Pilot Super Sports are just fantastic and I still, whenever I see an M135i or an M140, I always look at the sidewall, you've got the right tires. You're watching him going through a car park, oh, let's have a quick look at the sidewall, you know, check the brands, you know."
The sidewall is the outer part of the tire where the brand and model are printed. Checking it is an easy way to see what tires a car is actually running.
The tire sidewall includes printed information like the tire brand and model, which helps you identify the exact tire spec. The speaker uses sidewall checking as a quick way to confirm they’re seeing the “right tires” on similar cars.
"...somebody had said, you want to take the Run Flats off and put a decent set of tires on it and I put Pilot Super Sports on it..."
Pilot Super Sports are a Michelin tire model aimed at better grip and a more normal ride. The host switched to them and immediately noticed the car felt much better.
Pilot Super Sports are a performance-oriented tire line from Michelin. They’re known for strong grip and a more comfortable ride compared with many run-flat setups, which is why the speaker felt a “transformation” after switching.
"And I did it because you've got the white writing on the side."
White writing is the white lettering on the tire’s sidewall. It’s mainly for looks—some people want it bold, others want it more subtle.
“White writing” refers to white sidewall lettering/whitewall-style accents on a tire. It’s mostly a cosmetic detail, but it can also affect how people perceive the tire’s style (subtle vs bold).
"And I didn't realize that the white writing is only on one side of the tire.
Oh, of course."
Some tires have the white lettering on just one side. When the tire is mounted, you can rotate it so the lettering shows more or less.
Some tires have sidewall lettering/white accents printed on only one side, so the placement can be rotated during mounting. That’s why the speaker mentions it can be made subtle depending on how the tire is oriented.
"because I know BMW don't do it so much anymore,
but they went through a phase where everything came on run flats."
BMW is the car brand being mentioned. The point here is that BMW used to put run-flat tires on more of their cars, but that seems to be changing.
BMW is referenced here in the context of tire fitment trends—specifically, how the brand used run-flat tires more heavily in the past. The speaker suggests BMW has moved away from that approach over time.
"Went to put the wheel in the boot.
Oh.
Wouldn't fit in the boot."
“Boot” just means the trunk of the car. It’s where you’d normally put things like luggage or, in this case, try to store the spare wheel.
In UK/Irish English, the “boot” is the trunk area where luggage and some storage items go. When a spare wheel won’t fit, it can change how you store it temporarily.
"And obviously, I became accustomed to the smell
[1129.0s] and just couldn't smell it.
[1131.5s] And I'm sure Pat would come over and just be polite
[1133.9s] but then when I started dating Lou,
[1136.5s] she was just like, when we do move in together,
[1140.3s] you know, you're not having any tires in the house."
Tires are the rubber parts on a car that touch the road. They help the car grip, stop, and turn. Here, they’re also talking about how tires can smell strongly when stored indoors.
“Tires” are the rubber contact patches on a car that provide grip, braking traction, and steering response. In the segment, the speakers are talking about having tires stored indoors and the strong rubber smell that comes with them.
"...which turns out to be a Michelin product placement. No way."
Product placement is when a brand gets featured in a movie on purpose. It’s basically advertising, but built into the story.
Product placement is when a brand is intentionally shown or referenced in a movie or TV show for marketing. In automotive media, tire and car brands are often featured because they’re visually recognizable and can be tied to specific scenes.
"But no, I'm going to go very much BMW this one. And I'm going to go E46 M3 CSL, and that car was launched on the original Pilot Sport Cup tire."
The BMW E46 M3 CSL is a special M3 made by BMW that’s aimed more at track driving than everyday comfort. In this episode, it’s being linked to a specific “Cup” tire that was used when the car was launched.
The BMW E46 M3 CSL is a special, lighter, track-focused version of the E46-generation M3. It’s known for being closely associated with high-performance “cup” tires from the era, making it a great example of an iconic car-and-tire pairing.
"It was, I would say, it would be more comparable to the Cup 2R today, in the sense that it was renowned for being a tire that worked with temperature and in dry weather."
Cup 2R is a newer Michelin track tire. They’re comparing the older “Cup” tire to this newer one to give you a sense of how similar the performance style is.
“Cup 2R” is a later Michelin Cup-series tire variant referenced as a modern comparison point. The speaker is using it to explain the original Cup tire’s character—how it behaves and what conditions it’s best at.
"...a Carrera Cup or full race car spec car on slicks, [1605.6s] terms of lap time."
Slicks are race tires with no tread. They grip extremely well on a dry track, but they don’t last long and aren’t meant for wet roads.
Slicks are race tires with no tread pattern, designed to maximize dry-road grip. They generally work only in warm, dry conditions and wear out quickly compared with road tires.
"...is really, really close to a Carrera Cup or full race car spec car on slicks, [1605.6s] terms of lap time."
Lap time is how long it takes to do one full lap around the track. Faster lap times usually mean better grip and overall performance.
Lap time is the total time it takes to complete one circuit on a track, and it’s a common metric for comparing performance. Tire choice, brake cooling, and aerodynamic setup can all strongly influence lap time.
"...purpose built and not road legal. And that, you know, that is very much road legal."
Road legal means the car can be driven on public roads legally. It’s a big deal because race cars are usually not allowed on normal streets.
“Road legal” means the car is approved for public-road use, including compliance with regulations like lighting, emissions, and safety equipment. In performance discussions, it highlights how much lap-time capability you can get without going fully race-only.
"So we're here at the Porsche Experience Center in Silverstone, [1851.5s] which we've talked about on the pod."
Silverstone is a well-known racing track in the UK. It’s the kind of place where real race cars go, so it makes the driving experience feel more authentic.
Silverstone is a major UK racing circuit and one of the most famous tracks in motorsport. Hosting the Porsche Experience Center there ties the driving experience to a real race-track environment rather than a smaller test facility.
"So the different size tread blocks, different angles, they're offset against each other,
and that helps with the noise aspect in the comfort."
Tread blocks are the chunky parts of the tire pattern. They help the tire grip and also influence how much road noise it makes.
“Tread blocks” are the raised sections of rubber in the tire’s pattern. Their size, shape, and spacing affect traction, water handling, and—per this segment—noise generation.
"So that is essentially what the tread design is trying to achieve.
So you almost build like a resonance in the tire."
Tread design is the pattern on the tire that touches the road. It can affect both grip and how loud the tire is while driving.
“Tread design” is the pattern of blocks, grooves, and their geometry on the tire’s contact patch. In this segment, the speaker focuses on how tread geometry can influence noise and comfort, not just traction.
"[2685.4s] So that's the...
[2686.2s] What's that?
[2686.6s] I've got to get the name right.
[2687.6s] Pilot Sport 5 Energy.
[2689.5s] That's right."
Pilot Sport 5 Energy is a tire model line from Michelin, aimed at balancing performance with lower rolling resistance (often translating to better fuel economy). The “Energy” naming typically points to efficiency-focused construction and tread design.
"You know, the millions of pounds worth of R&D, just in the development of those two tires alone,"
R&D means research and development—basically, engineers testing and improving products. With tires, that work helps them grip better and perform more consistently.
R&D (research and development) refers to the engineering work that goes into designing tire compounds, tread patterns, and construction. The episode is using R&D to argue that tire performance isn’t random—it’s the result of testing and iteration.
Select text to request an explanation
Oh, Crayon.
Oh, it's a 718 Crayon.
GTS has got the GTS interior back then.
Oh, yes.
Oh.
Hey, guys, and welcome back to the Drive Talk podcast,
powered by Michelin.
We're here in Silverstone Porsche Experience Center.
We are.
In the 918 Spider handover room, well, it was.
It's now the Manti Racing.
Apparently.
Manti Racing slash podcast handover room.
Something we haven't got a special guest on.
We haven't started the podcast properly.
I know, but I did that to wind you up.
Oh, let's introduce the special guest.
No, no, we're missing something.
Before we even introduce the special guest.
How do we start our podcast?
Oh.
Oh.
He's an owl.
He's an owl.
Easy now.
So many of our guests just at that point go.
Now you can take it over.
So I've got two Joes with me today.
Joe A.
And Joe B.
Hey, where's Joe E?
I did that joke last night, and it didn't work.
And we had a few drinks at that point,
and it still wasn't funny.
Anyway.
Now, so we're here for a tyre launch, actually,
and Joe is our technical expert from Michelin.
What is your exact job title and role?
So my job title is customer engineering support,
or better known as the technical manager
for car, vinyl 4x4.
He's just a tyre geek, basically.
Yeah, pretty much.
Do you have Bibendum in your name at all?
I don't know, but I have Bibendum everywhere else.
On your jacket.
So anyway, we were...
So we've got lots of things we want to talk about.
The tyres in front of us were on the launch for those.
We're going to talk about those a little bit later.
But I don't think it would be remiss of us
not to just have a quick chat about that 992 GT3 RS
Manta racing that's parked behind Joe.
It's rather nice, isn't it?
I think...
Oh, no, we saw one when we were at Manta last year.
But it's not often you see one with the full body kit on it.
No.
And it is a sensational thing.
I remember the first time I saw the GT3 RS 992
at the final of the Gran Turismo in Monaco.
And I just couldn't believe how extreme it was
as a road car, especially the wing.
And now, fast forward to now,
and that makes the regular 992 GT3 RS look normal.
It's crazy, isn't it?
Everything about it is extreme.
And you look at it.
I just mentioned the diffuser at the back is giganormous.
The wing, obviously, is massive.
It's got the big dorsal fin thing.
It's got aero kicks and flicks everywhere.
It's on the right tyres.
Definitely on the right tyres.
Although you could go more extreme.
It's on Pilot Sport Cup 2s.
But imagine that Cup 2 RS day like today around Silverstone.
Yes, please.
Joe, did you say that you could organise that for us?
Fantastic.
I'll do my best.
James?
Actually, so I'm going to throw you a couple here.
Quick difference in layman's terms
between a Cup 2 and a Cup 2 R.
So the Cup 2 R was engineered specifically for Porsche,
for Ferrari.
So it was designed specifically for the vehicle manufacturers
to give that additional performance around the track.
So yeah, it's great that Cup 2 R has broken many records,
particularly on the Nurburgring for some of the Porsche.
So yeah, really, really sort of highly tuned tyre.
It must be one of those things.
You know when you've got something that's really good anyway,
like a Cup 2, and then somebody comes in on Monday morning
and goes, there's your new project for you.
OK, you've got to make the Cup 2 even better.
You've got to make it faster.
You've got to make it more extreme.
I mean, where do you start?
I guess it is it?
Yeah.
Is it rubber compound, tread pattern?
That's it, yeah.
It must be a combination of everything.
Compound, the case structure,
making sure that the tyre remains stiff, firm,
to make sure that that steering response is optimised
as best as it can be.
But the compound as well,
a lot of work goes into that compound,
making sure that once that compound's heated up,
as I'm sure you guys have experienced yourselves,
it just gives that level of grip that it's just...
Unrivaled.
Unrivaled, that's the way it's done.
Unreal.
For about three or four laps, I run out of talent
and then I may as well be on a Cup 2.
Yeah, but jokes aside,
I think the Cup 2, like the R,
and I've not spent much time on one at all,
but the R is, as you say, a really extreme tyre,
but it doesn't have the Cup 2 qualities
that the Cup 2 can still disperse some water
and you can use a Cup 2 on road,
whereas I would never advise many people to use a Cup 2 R,
even though it is road legal.
It's such an extreme tyre, isn't it?
That if it starts raining and a Cup 2 R,
there's not much or many grooves in them
to get rid of any water, so it's like anything.
It's one extreme to the next,
and as we're going to talk about later on,
that's what makes a lot of these new tyres
that you guys are bringing out,
Cross Climate 3 Sport and these two,
they've got such a breadth of ability
that they don't just tick like a Cup 2 R,
pretty much one box and they're extremely good at that.
They do a lot of things in between.
Now, before we get...
We need to make, not an apology,
but a correction from a previous podcast.
So in a previous podcast,
we did all of our cars of 2026
that we were looking forward to
and we used a well-known magazine title
to give us that list.
They'd obviously done due diligence
and good amounts of research.
Not.
So one of the cars that we said that was coming back this year
was the Hyundai i30N,
and it was coming back as a hybrid.
I was with Hyundai this week on a launch,
driving on an X6N,
which you've driven in Crip, what a car.
Amazing.
And I went up to the PR,
and I went, oh, mate, you legends.
You're bringing back the i30N.
And they went, are we?
And I went, yeah, it was in a magazine recently.
And they went, no, we're not.
Said that was just complete fantasy.
So unfortunately,
if you got excited on that podcast
about i30N coming back.
I know we did.
We did because it's an epic car.
It's not coming back.
No.
It's dead.
The only place you can still buy it is Australia.
Okay.
Australia.
But that's not for much longer.
Yeah, they didn't remove that.
It's always a day from there
when we got rid of them.
That is the only market that's still available,
but it's dead.
So is i20N.
Sad.
It's annoying.
So we try not to get things wrong
in this podcast, but every now and again.
Yeah.
We were only quoting information that we've been given
and we figured that it was quite accurate.
But again, I guess when we did talk about a lot of cars,
so just a shame it's one of those
and not one of the ones we skipped over.
Unfortunately, all the X-pengs are still coming
and in most of the BYDs, but never mind.
Yeah.
So are we going to start with,
we're going to do some tire tails, aren't we?
Yes.
Yeah.
So we're going to,
the first question we've got,
I would start with you, Joe,
because you're the special guest, you see.
We thought it'd be quite interesting
because we all are lucky enough
to run Michelin tires on our cars
and we're lucky enough to try out lots of different Michelin tires.
We thought it'd be fun what the first ever Michelin tire you got
and what car it went on
and why you did it and what difference it made,
kind of thing.
Yeah.
So interestingly, I didn't actually choose the tire.
The tire came with the car itself.
So my first car with Michelins was a Peugeot 208.
Oh.
GTI?
No, nothing that exciting, I'm afraid.
So it came on the Energy Saver Pluses,
which is quite interesting for what we're here today for.
But in terms of performance,
yeah, the tire itself, I mean,
it was such an eye-opener for me, really,
because I've never driven on a premium tire before,
let alone a Michelin.
When it came on the Peugeot 208
and the Energy Saver Pluses, it was great.
So it's funny, because I know
there's a premium, isn't there, with Michelin?
And a lot of people,
they're not the cheapest tire by any means,
but you kind of get what you pay for.
And I know when I first went,
and I'll say what I put mine on in a bit,
but it was a bit of a step up
because the car didn't have great tires on it before.
And you're like, I'm going to put Michelins on it.
And then you put them on and you're, oh.
Yeah.
Premium tires are worth the money.
Yeah.
Because I was at college at the time when I put them on.
And you think, well, I can't afford good tires.
I'm going to put the cheapest rubbish I can on each corner on it
or be fine.
You know, they're legal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that was precisely it.
I mean, for me, college, never.
You weren't working for Michelin at the time?
I was.
Yeah.
Oh, you were?
Yeah.
So it was my first job at Michelin.
So I...
Was that like about four weeks ago?
Yeah, wasn't it?
How long have you been at Michelin?
12 years.
Do you mind, can I ask your age?
He must have started when you were about six.
Yes.
Yeah.
It was child labour.
Yeah.
I started when I was 21.
So I'm sorry.
I'm a bit older than that.
I'm 35 this year.
Yeah.
A bit older, 23.
Wow.
Whippersnapper.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So starting the customer service centre, so it was quite a...
But in months, I just realised it was just a great company.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the tires and the performance aspect, which was fascinating.
Yeah.
So when the energy saver plus just came on, yeah, it was...
It's funny, isn't it?
Because often the really cool stories aren't that sexy tires like Cup 2s and Cup 2 Rs on
a man-tire racing, you know, because let's face it, how many people are actually going
to experience that?
Yeah.
Not many.
The lifeblood of the company is cars that go on family cars.
Sorry, tires that go on family cars.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's essentially what we try to get across is for the tires, the safety performance,
the energy efficiency, all of those things for everyday road users, that's what, as Michelin,
we want to stand for and as well as obviously the performance aspect, which, you know, we
love this exciting nature, but for the everyday driver, the safety and the energy efficiency
is important also.
Yeah.
How about you, mate?
So my first ever car was a Mark IV Golf GTI, which I actually recently bought back the
actual car.
Have you still got that?
I have, yeah.
It's...
Has it kind of gone off the radar a bit?
It's...
You bought your car back and you haven't talked about it for a long time.
I left it with a detailer, Mike from Manusia Detailing, who does all of my...
He's doing my M3 touring at the moment, PPFing it.
But he said, leave it with me.
It's a project and this was about three months ago and I've not really heard much from him.
So he's either not done anything to it, which is absolutely fine, or he's gone to town with
it, which is absolutely fine.
But when I got that car, to be honest, I can't remember what tires it came on, but the reason
I mention it is because when I recently bought it back at the end of last year, the first
thing or one of the first things I did down at Elite Garages was fits and Michelin primacies
to it and I've driven it once since and it's amazing because although it is a knackered
old car and it's got a lot of things that need replacing, which I probably never get
around to doing because it doesn't make economic sense, but putting a fresh rubber on it just
made the car feel really tight and it handled well and I knew that it's going to deal with
wet grip really well and all the rest of it.
So it's like giving that old car a fresh lease of life, putting some new rubber on it.
But the first car I remember that did definitely have missions on it was an E46 330 CI, so
the Coupe manual.
And I got that in like 2007 or 2008 or something.
I bought it used, but it came on some, I think they weren't super sports because it was too
early for that.
I can't remember which ones they were, but yeah, I loved it.
Pilot Sport 3s maybe they were, but yeah, it came on Michelins and when it came to a
place in them at the time, I was like, oh, they were quite punchy price wise, but I put
some fresh set on and it was just again, it was lovely to have the Michelins and ever
since then, pretty much everything I've owned has come on Michelins, but yeah.
And one more little story is in 2013, when I got my M135i one, that was a new car and
it was a real buzz word and car that back then it was, you know, it was the hot hatch
of the time and I still think one of the best hot hatches ever and that particular car was
launched only and this is quite rare today because as we know, you pick up a Porsche,
might come on a Michelin, might come on another brand, you know, premium brand, but that car
was launched specifically in line with Michelin launching the Pilot Super Sport back then.
So it's 2012 and they launched the car, that's how I was brand new then.
It was a Starmark version, so it's designed for that hot hatch, which was a real ground
breaker back then because it was quite, you'd find like OEM tires on sort of bigger, more
expensive models, but not so much such a niche little hatchback and yeah, and those
Pilot Super Sports are just fantastic and I still, whenever I see an M135i or an M140,
I always look at the sidewall, you've got the right tires.
You're watching him going through a car park, oh, let's have a quick look at the sidewall,
you know, check the brands, you know.
I can't stop at traffic lights now without looking down and seeing somebody else is wearing
on their car, so the life I've come accustomed to now.
Yeah, it's funny.
You wind the window down and go, well, have we got them on foot?
Really, yeah, I have to stop myself.
I think I'm not working now, so all right.
And what about you, Ped?
Well, the car that I remember the most difference is my Mini actually,
because that came on Run Flats, non-Michelin Run Flats and it just, they were always road
really hard and we all know why Run Flats were put on the car and I think I'd only just started
doing YouTube and somebody had said, you want to take the Run Flats off and put a decent set
of tires on it and I put Pilot Super Sports on it and I remember going to get them fitted.
I got them fitted, driving home and I'm like, I think you've me a different car.
It was literally a transformation of the car.
I mean, yes, you had the challenge that you now no longer had Run Flats and obviously no spare,
so if you had a flat, then you've got the old magic gun, which never worked ever.
No, I don't know anyone who's ever survived a tire deflation and used that magic gun,
because by the time it deflates, there's a big hole in the sidewall and it doesn't work anyway.
But yeah, that was for me, it was like, oh, okay, I propagate it now.
And I think I'd had cars in the past with Michelin's on, but it was so long ago,
I can't really remember what they were.
Yeah, that's going back some time.
It is, yeah.
I did, it's black and white back then.
It's Michelin related, but I had a Mitsubishi short wheelbase Mitsubishi Shogun
and I put BFG all terrains on it, which was really cool.
And I did it because you've got the white writing on the side.
Yeah.
And I remember I went in and he was like, do you want the white writing on the inside
of the outside?
And I'm like, well, and I didn't realize that the white writing is only on one side of the tire.
Oh, of course.
So you can.
Oh, so you can have it subtle.
Yeah, if you don't want it, I mean, obviously.
And let me guess, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Obviously, I had the white and it's blue when the tire goes on.
You have to clean it and then it turns white.
And then you got, yeah, you want it on the outside.
Of course you do.
Can I have GTS on there as well?
So, yeah, but that was good.
And then since then, I've always had missions on.
But I think that the run flat to normal tire and you often,
because I know BMW don't do it so much anymore,
but they went through a phase where everything came on run flats.
Yeah.
And I don't know whether it is a trend that's changing, Joe, is that?
I would say it's becoming more standard as opposed to the run flat.
And I guess that comes down to comfort and being able to find
different performance gains by not having that run flat.
I don't know, but yeah, it's certainly not as...
Yeah, brands aren't going,
oh, we're not putting run flats on anymore.
So I'll tell you what we'll do.
It's an amazing invention, this.
We'll put a spare wheel in the car or a space saver wheel.
That would be good, wouldn't it?
Yeah.
It's crazy to think that back in the day,
you'd have a full-size spare.
And I mean, that is your,
Passat got a full-size spare in the boot.
Yeah, I only know that because obviously the one we brought
for that challenge, you think how big a full-size spare wheel is
and nowadays with all the hybrid stuff and all the rest of it,
there's just no room for it.
But then the space saver.
So I had a Honda S2000 and that had a space saver wheel.
And I'm on my way to work and I had a rear tire go on the A34.
And I'm like, oh, that's all right, I've got a space saver.
That's fine.
So back then, I'm able to change a tire,
which lots of people kind of go, how do you change a wheel?
Yeah.
Change the wheel, put the space saver on.
Excellent.
Great.
Went to put the wheel in the boot.
Oh.
Wouldn't fit in the boot.
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh, where's the wheel going?
Yeah.
So I took, luckily we had a dog at the tire boxer
and I had a dog, like a cover to put on the seat
when the dog came in the car and it was in the boot.
So I put that on and had the wheel in the car.
Yeah.
And I had to drive to work and it was the summertime,
drove to work.
I was doing my training job at the time,
parked the car up in the car park,
went in, did my day's work,
a training, came back out again, got in the car.
Well, mate, it was like sitting in a massive
for an hour on the way home because it just stank.
Oh, yeah.
Walking around Campbell Road, that smell.
I remember I came to an interview there many years ago
and I just remembered the smell of a tire factory
is quite a unique smell.
I grew up around the factory area.
Yeah.
That smell was quite prominent, wasn't it?
Yeah.
Oh, man, it took weeks for it to go.
Even when the tire wasn't there, you get in and you go...
Can't get rid of it.
Well, my old place, and Pat would agree with this,
I'm sure my old, I used to live in this small little cottage
before I met Lou and I'm so obsessed.
Well, number one, I didn't have the storage,
but number two, I love tires so much
that I think of them as like pieces of art and...
Is this like your garage at your house now?
It is, yeah, but at least it's a garage now.
Whereas back then, I would have...
So, as you came into my tiny little living room,
I mean, the entire house was probably smaller than this room.
So, little living room, and what greeted you on the left
as soon as you walked in the door was I had a pile of cup twos.
I think I had two lying on their side and then one up
so I could see the side wall.
When I was sitting on my sofa watching the TV,
like literally now, I'd be that close,
there's the tire, here's my sofa, there's the TV,
such a small room.
And obviously, I became accustomed to the smell
and just couldn't smell it.
And I'm sure Pat would come over and just be polite
and not say anything, but then when I started dating Lou,
she was just like, when we do move in together,
you know, you're not having any tires in the house.
In the house.
That's like normal people, mate.
Yeah, because your place did smell very strongly of rubber.
And I was like, it's like fuel, you know, I still go to...
And were they there just for an ornament,
or because they were like spares for your car or something?
No, they were.
They served a purpose.
They were there as spares,
but they were also there as like an ornament as well,
just so I could just look at them and just smell them.
It's not right.
Yeah.
Why was that single for so long?
I don't know.
No idea, mate.
So, there are our first cars.
We then, and I think Pat came up with this idea,
topic idea for a podcast, and we had to do some research.
And we had to choose our most iconic car and tire combination.
Yep.
And we don't know what each other's is.
I have a feeling I know who yours is.
I think, but I don't know what Joe's is,
and if Joe's is the same as mine, I'm really stuffed
because I've only got one.
So we'll let Joe, as in Joe B, go first.
Go first.
So the iconic, for me, I mean, I grew up watching and changed Bond films.
Absolutely, I love James Bond.
When I hear the word iconic, I'm thinking James Bond.
Yeah, it's going well so far,
because mine's got nothing to do with James Bond.
So I'm thinking DB5, but interesting,
when we talk, when we bring the tire into it,
I'm thinking of the scene from A View to a Kill,
where the Rolls Royce gets rolled into the lake,
and James Bond gets the air from the tire,
which turns out to be a Michelin product placement.
No way.
No.
That's an amazing one.
That's a product placement.
I'll make you come on the podcast again.
Interestingly, I don't think the tire,
I think it was before my time, as we've established,
you know, I'm just fresh out of school.
Matt, he's still not as young as Pat.
But I don't believe, I think it's Michelin X,
someone's going to correct me now,
and there's Michelin X, WX or whatever.
I don't think it actually was compared with that vehicle anyway.
Oh, OK.
It just worked out well for sure.
It just worked out further shot, yeah.
That's so cool.
The fact that, I think, technically, it's impossible as well.
Yes.
To breathe air from a tire underwater.
Is it?
I don't think, otherwise...
We should test that one.
When was the last time you went scuba diving
and saw someone with a tire in the back, the pipe?
Yeah, but you don't go scuba diving thinking,
oh, I'm going to bring my tires with me to breathe underwater.
That was a bit of an emergency situation, wasn't it?
Well, it was, yeah.
I mean, it's not an emergency situation I've ever felt.
Have you found yourself in that?
No, no, no, no.
Yeah, but James Bond is James Bond.
Yeah.
That is cool.
So, tire placement in a movie,
and we hear about car placement in movies and products and stuff.
That's interesting.
So, I was at the 80s, I think, earlier, the 80s.
How many?
So, somebody who was in marketing did a very good job like this.
That's genius.
They should have had white tire writing on it to make it easier to sell it.
Oh, did it?
Plants actually have white...
Oh, it did.
Yeah, it did.
I don't need to go and watch that one.
Yeah, I need to.
Yeah, so it was quite prominent and the tread pattern was there as well.
Brilliant.
Nice.
Oh, that's a hard one.
That's a really difficult one.
Damn, that, yeah.
Mine's not as good as that.
Mine's predictable.
Do you want to go first or...?
Yeah, well, I mean, mine's going to be...
Which BMW would you like?
There we go.
There we go.
But you say that in every podcast.
To be fair, I do...
Lately, I've been steering away on purpose from BMWs, just to upset you.
But no, I'm going to go very much BMW this one.
And I'm going to go E46 M3 CSL,
and that car was launched on the original Pilot Sport Cup tire.
So the Cup 1, essentially.
I never knew there was a Cup 1.
Yeah, so it was just called the Cup.
And it was, I mean, I couldn't even tell you which other cars it came on at the factory, very few.
It was a very low volume tire.
It was, I would say, it would be more comparable to the Cup 2R today,
in the sense that it was renowned for being a tire that worked with temperature and in dry weather.
But if you didn't have either of those...
It didn't work.
So it was, and again, it just shows you the progression of what manufacturers
like Michelin have done over the years.
They managed to make a Cup 2 work in pretty much all conditions, apart from icy stuff.
But back then, the Cup 1, it was a tire, think of it as like a slick, in that sense.
It was either off and it just didn't offer you any grip.
Or when you got temperature in it, it was amazing.
And I know there was a lot of stories on the original press launch of that car
with journos binning it, because they were told in the briefing,
you know, this is the new latest product.
It's like a slick tire.
You need to get some temperature in it.
And obviously, journos being journos, pre-YouTube went out.
You know, boom, spun it out.
But when you got temperature in that tire, it was an impressive bit of kit.
That's kind of made me think of a question for Joe, actually.
So nowadays, track days are quite a common thing.
And lots of people kind of done them.
But if you went back 20 or 30 years, track days weren't really a thing.
Maybe 30 years.
So therefore, most people didn't drive the car on track.
And therefore, they drove on the road.
So performance tires, the envelope that they had to operate in,
was probably a bit more restrictive.
And the question is, the trend of track days,
what impact that's had on tire manufacturers like Michelin,
in terms of developing tires like a Cup 2,
which is a track day tire with road capability.
And they needed that 30 years ago, because no one did track days.
No one drove the car on track.
And also, the cars didn't have that level of performance to utilize a Cup 2, right?
No. So I don't know whether that is a thing or not.
I guess it comes down to the vehicle in which it's being driven.
So a lot of our work will go with the vehicle manufacturer.
And the type of vehicle that it will be,
if it's typically going to be used on track, then that vehicle is going to want a tire
that's going to be suitable for track use.
So again, it's probably led by the vehicle itself.
The purpose of the vehicle.
And I suppose that like the M3 CSL, it was the GT3 RS of the time.
So it was like, this is going to be used a lot on tracks.
And Michelin would probably be like, well, let's make a ridiculous tire.
I mean, it kind of comes on to what we're talking about in a bit,
with the range of or breadth of capability of tires.
You know, Cup 2, it's a track day tire with road capability,
but a 4S is a brilliant road car tire, which is also pretty handy man of tracks.
Yeah. So the Cup 2 and the Pilot's Ball 4S are pretty much reversed in terms of capabilities.
For the Cup 2, if we're talking percentages, you see 80% on track, 20% on road,
gives the driver the chance to get it fitted as a dealer,
and drive legally to the track, have a fun day out on track, and everything's great.
The parts ball 4S on the other hand, there's 80% road use.
But then for those who do a one track day a year,
that tire is just going to give you that performance.
That's a good question. I never thought about that.
Yeah. I guess it's trends in it. And you look at a car like that,
that's basically a racing car with number plates on, isn't it?
Yeah.
And that is, keep looking, but it's still very cool, isn't it?
It is.
In fact, we've got the, I nearly called it Nello Yellow then, the Grello upon the wall,
and there's not a great difference between those two when you look at them, to be honest.
No, I think it was late and RMA was telling me, or someone in the know,
was saying that actually a Manta racing road car on Cup 2 Rs
is really, really close to a Carrera Cup or full race car spec car on slicks,
terms of lap time. Obviously, it's a little bit quicker, but you think that's like,
I don't know what they are, that's like a million pound car or whatever,
and purpose built and not road legal. And that, you know, that is very much road legal.
We haven't mentioned, so to have that comment, first of all, you've got to buy a GC3 RS.
So what are they? 270 grand?
Yeah. 250, you'd find a nicer used one.
So you get one of them, and then the Manta kit is 100,000 pounds.
Wow. Is that including fitting or?
I guess so, I don't know.
Well, I would never guess so.
So my one is, sorry.
Yeah, we almost forgot about the most important one.
It's not the most important one, but I went like the most iconic one for me in terms of
engineering challenge is when Bugatti announced that they were going to do Veyron,
and Veyron was going to do 250 mile an hour plus, it needed special tires.
And Michelin developed the Pilot Sport Pax tire for Veyron.
Okay.
And I think that when you look at the specs and the bit that amazes me about it,
it was a wheel and tire system, wasn't it?
Because the tire was actually glued onto the wheel.
Yeah.
It was a run flat.
Oh, okay. I didn't know.
So yeah, because they were, if it deflated at very high speed,
they wanted the car to be able to slow down and the forces at maximum speed on a Veyron,
the tire is subject to 5,000 G.
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
So you just think, I mean, you know that we, I know it's slightly different when we were
playing with my radio control car, when we were at podium, and when you, when you pull,
I've got this ridiculous thing that does 58 miles an hour PD racing.
And when you, if you hold it in your hand and give it maximum revs, the tires like balloon
because of the centripetal forces on them.
It's the same thing there, but 5,000 G.
That's nuts.
Right.
But then except, but in the Veyron, they can't do that because the wheel wells.
Yeah.
And it just fall apart.
Yeah.
So they've got to be strong enough to hold form at those speeds.
And the tire could only do maximum velocity for 15 minutes before it destroyed itself.
Wow.
That was it.
Then you needed a new set.
Yeah.
And they're 30,000 pounds a set.
Yeah.
And after like three sets, you need new wheels as well.
New wheels, which are like, which are 50 grand or something.
Yeah.
And there's, and then you, you have to go to a special place to get them fitted.
Yeah.
And, and you think that, that, all of that technology went into Veyron, but now you look
at something like Chiron and it's on a pilot sport cup too.
And that was going to be, when we talk about iconic, so that was going to be my other one.
Yeah.
That record breaker and I think 2019, I think it was, it's achieved over 300 miles an hour,
I think the cup too.
So yeah.
On a, on a, it's not quite off the shelf tire, but not far off.
No.
Yeah.
No.
It's amazing how, how that, that, what was once, you know, 30,000 pound set of tires
specifically designed for a car.
Yeah.
And then the, the tire programs come on so much that effectively a cup too can just do that.
Anyway.
And that, that, I think we've mentioned it on the podcast a few times, this, this hunt for
ultimate top speed by cars and that, what was that?
Chinese is the X nine Yang Wang thing.
Yeah.
That did what 400 or 500 Ks and I'll come over.
It's tire limited, isn't it really?
Because, because of those forces.
And but yeah, so that, I thought that was a cool.
Yeah.
That's all right.
It's very cool.
Yeah.
Very cool.
I mean, the whole thing about Veyron when it came out was ridiculous, wasn't it?
All, every number on it was, was a silly thing.
Yeah.
It was almost like they're just like, because just prior to that,
there was sort of this going on and then Bugatti just went.
Yeah.
There's my dollar bang.
So are we going to, are we going to kind of talk about the two tires in front of this desk?
Yes.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Well, that's, that's why we're here just to give you a little bit of background.
So we're here at the Porsche Experience Center in Silverstone,
which we've talked about on the pod.
In fact, we've done a pod down here.
I've talked about a lot over the years.
I first came here in 2011.
My ex-girlfriend got a Boxter and we got invited down here to do like a driving day,
I think it was.
And I've been back several times with manufacturers and various things.
And it's such a great place.
And, and this is a cheap plug for them.
But it's, it's a place that whether you've got a Porsche or you haven't got a Porsche,
you're thinking about getting a Porsche or you just want a little bit of fun on track.
You've not done a track day, but you're like, I just want to go and experience,
you know, something you can't do on the public road.
They have some amazing packages down here.
And I think they start about 300 to 350 quid up to about 1700 quid.
If you want, like the full driver GT3 RS and all the GT cars and everything in between.
And even like the older GT cars, right?
And they've got a beautiful canteen.
You can't, it's a restaurant.
It's not canteen.
Chocolate coated venison.
I mean, who doesn't want that?
Yeah, it's lovely.
Mine not as good as yours because I'm unfortunately gluten free these days.
But yeah, but, but so we've been out there experiencing these two tires,
not on Porsches, mind you, because they are sort of more mainstream tire,
I guess you'd call it, in the sense that they're going to be fitted to the majority of
normal cars as opposed to GT3 RSs.
So we've, we've spent the morning experiencing both tires on various
cupras out there on their handling circuits and stuff.
And yeah, I mean, what, what, what, what should we, where should we?
Should we do, I think we should do primacy first.
Because I want to ask whether it's primacy or primacy.
It's a good question.
Primacy or primacy, your choices.
Yeah, because you said primacy in a briefing.
I did, yeah.
And then, and then, yeah, but it's one of those things, isn't it?
Yeah, I do say, I say primacy.
I'd say primacy.
Yeah.
Interestingly, nobody's ever pulled me up on it.
So no, no, no, who knows?
No, it's a bit like Pat saying was instead of was.
It's the same thing.
I've not pulled him up on that either.
So, so we do.
So primacy.
So you do want to give us a bit of a,
so we just talk about the primacy tire in terms of what it was,
what, what it's aimed at doing.
And then we can talk about the latest version of it.
The primacy or the primacy range essentially is
for your long distance driving, your comfort, your fuel efficiency, your wet grip.
So over, over the years, we've had many, many generations.
Primacy three, primacy four plus, primacy five, e-primacy.
So all are part of the same family of tires.
But now we've come out with the primacy five energy,
which is our first triple A rated tire.
So what does that, so we've had in the briefing,
the triple A thing mentioned a couple of times.
So in layman's terms, what does that actually mean?
So it's a tire labelling.
So for your everyday driver, it is your first informed bit of information
to essentially let you know what that tire is capable of.
So it looks at wet grip, it looks at fuel efficiency or rolling resistance,
as it's referred to, and also noise.
So three key areas, I would say, so safety,
whether it's going to save you a little bit of money or in the comfort aspect.
So that's what the triple A rated as it means.
It's achieved the highest rating across the board,
which for a tire is some feet.
Because if we go back to when we talk about the tire developers
and what they set out to achieve,
sometimes it's always going to be a compromise
to favor certain performance characteristics over others.
In this instance, we've managed to achieve the triple A rated tire.
So again, for initially, it's the first of its kind.
It is amazing that you kind of, I think we've said it
when we were talking about cross climate three and cross climate three sport.
You do it like a cup two track day tire does that thing brilliantly.
You've got a winter tire does like driving around in snow brilliantly.
And then when you have to get a tire that does lots of things brilliantly
as a tire designer or the guys involved in the development,
that must be really hard.
Yeah, yeah.
And the technologies that are going into these tires these days,
I mean, we're constantly developing,
evolving existing technologies and bringing out new technologies.
But yeah, it's constantly an evolving situation
where we're able now to achieve this tire that like you say can achieve
so many different things, but do it well as well.
So there's no compromise in terms of safety, longevity,
efficiency, more comfort for the primary five energy that is at least.
So I guess if you, I spent, I mean, it's probably a really relevant time
to talk about it with petrol prices going up and all that kind of stuff.
So you've got a suitable for petrol or electric.
Suitable for all vehicle types.
All vehicle types.
So you've got your family, your family bus that you take the kids to school
and you do your family holidays and stuff.
You want a bit more fuel efficiency.
You want a nice quiet, smoother ride.
But then when it starts to rain and the weather conditions,
you've still won that performance that's that you go to.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Placing safety as the priority essentially,
but then combining, like you say, as a long distance driver,
or if you've got a family, obviously you want that,
you want that safety, but also the efficiency as well.
So again, he's allowing drivers to basically drive safely for longer
and being able just to save a little bit of money in the process.
Because I think that the efficiency bit,
I mean, you're Mr. Efficiency, you two driving along at you.
He is.
I'll just, yeah.
Oh, you're not doing 56 miles an hour.
Anybody can kind of drive like that.
But what we've experienced out on the-
Excuse me?
No, okay.
Where's your video of that?
No, I wasn't meaning anyone can drive from Africa to,
I'll just drop my glasses, never mind.
From Africa to London on one tank of fuel.
I'm not so sure.
Is that if someone was just driving their car normally,
you're going to notice whether you're going to get an extra few miles per gallon.
It's very difficult for us to test that today.
So the tests that we've had today on that tire,
we did two tests out on the track in a Cooper-Born.
And the first one was looking at kind of low grip, wet grip handling.
And for me, that's an example where everyone's driven a car in heavy rain on the motorway.
Yeah.
And they'll have felt maybe aqua-planning or maybe had to make an avoiding maneuver or whatever.
And that, you don't plan those types of things, they just happen.
And you don't, we like getting a car with a back-end loose and sliding it around.
Most drivers don't like that at all.
Well, your average, no offence, but your average primacy customer
is probably not your average cup two customer, although they might have both.
But yeah, exactly.
They just, they just want the car to do what they ask it to do,
whether it's raining in horrible conditions or whatever.
In a safe way.
So the first test we had, which I thought was really, really good.
They've got so many, the cool thing about the experience center,
and if you come on one of their experiences, you can talk, try them all out.
They've got a really low grip area that's painted with like that stuff that you find on a shiny
garage floor and then sprayed with water.
So it's like, yeah, it's like super slippy.
And we drove into that at speeds.
We started off at like 15 miles an hour, ended up at about 25 miles an hour,
and then made an avoiding or evading maneuver like it would be
if you were changing from like lane one to lane three on a motorway or vice versa.
And then you could feel the car start to kind of get unsettled.
And the way the tire lost traction and what we call breakaway
from going from having grip to no grip was just really progressive and
manageable.
So the car did get upset, but it didn't snap or bite.
It just gradually got upset and you just kept turning or braking,
because if we did it with braking, we did accelerating.
And it just managed it really competently.
And I can imagine if you weren't a particularly confident driver,
it would just look after you.
It felt like it was going to look after you.
Really impressive.
I think for most drivers, I mean, again, there's the probably only experience
10% of what a tire can do.
Yeah, yeah.
That's probably a little bit of a loose figure, but they've never experienced
the full capability of a tire.
So out on track, what you've experienced today is probably the most extreme,
but it just demonstrates that in those circumstance where you've got your family on board,
you've got, you're caught out essentially in bad weather.
It's just the safety element of it, it's going to look after you.
You're going to be able to control and come to a stop safely.
It's funny, we were joking about in a few chat forums,
you might be on the same thing where people are talking about track day tires
and stuff like that, or premium tires.
Oh yeah, I put premium tires on my 911, but I put budgets on the wife's car, you know.
And you think?
You got that the wrong way around.
Oh, you mean the wife's car, the one that she uses to take the kids to school?
It's like the most precious things in the world on a set of ditch finders.
So if you're thinking about choosing a premium tire for your performance car,
it's exactly the same thought process.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
But it's just not as in your face, you don't, it's there, you might drive a set of those
for their full lifetime and it never actually step in and help you, but the day you want it
absolutely needs to be there.
I used to run some prim, so I just remember my first ever show from car seven series
back in 2014, that came on primacies.
And so there would have been like, well, what's that?
12 years ago now.
But yeah, those primacies, I put them through a bit of abuse over the years,
getting away from paps and stuff.
Getting away from paps.
Yeah, I remember, yeah, I had primacies on it and.
Were you like that scene in the bodyguard where he goes, can I do a 180?
You know, have you seen that?
You know what, there is one day, a podcast, there's at least an entire episode talking
about some of the stuff that I used to do in the early days of chauffeuring that I look back
on now and I just think, wow, like that was probably not the smartest thing, but actually
it was pretty cool.
Yeah, but yeah, that had primacies on it.
And then obviously the e-primacy you mentioned earlier on, that was the tire that Pat and I
used on the Passat to do the Africa to London trip on.
So yeah, it's a range that's been around for years, isn't it?
But obviously this being the energy is the latest and greatest version of it.
So the, just to cover off the e, I think a lot of people think that means electric car.
Yeah, it was more to do with the energy aspect.
So that's probably a bit of a misconception really.
It's for any vehicle type.
And is this now, does this pilot, primacy, energy replace the e-primacy?
It will become its long-term successor yet.
Okay, yeah.
Okay, nice.
So you'll have, will this just be the only primacy or?
So the primacy five will still set alongside the primacy five or the primacy five energy.
So they'll still coexist, it's just an extension to the primacy five range.
It must be a headache for you guys because you make specific tires, OEM tires,
N-marked, Star-marked, whatever for manufacturers.
And then that car sort of ends its life cycle.
But then you can't just stop making tires for that car.
But then you'll bring out a new version of that tire that you've then got a stock in,
do you know what I mean?
It's like, and the crossover of everything is just like, you can still get super sports in
pretty much all of the original super sports sizes, but that's a nearly 15 year old tire now.
And it's just, yeah.
I mean, stocking it just must be like, I mean, that's why your warehouse is just the size it is.
I mean, as you know, the vehicle market's evolving, it's getting bigger and bigger.
Sizes are becoming so much diverse, so there's so much to consider with tire ranges and tire sizes.
So yeah, we've got a lot to cover off, but yeah.
Lots of combinations of permutations.
That's it, yeah.
The other thing, the next thing we did with that was we took it on the little handling circuit,
which is a great circuit, isn't it?
It is, isn't it?
Imagine having that in your backyard.
I know, and then we got to push on a bit, and when you do, it's really competent tire,
and it kind of didn't feel that dissimilar to like a Pilot Sport 5 kind of performance.
It was really good.
Yeah.
Really, really good.
So if you do, it's not like you're buying that and it's only good for when it's wet or going on
long journeys.
If you do want to have a bit of fun down a B road, it's a really competent tire.
So from the Primacy 5 energy point of view, I mean, it's aerated for noise.
So again, you talk about the technologies that have gone into this tire.
So it's fine details in terms of the block placement on the tread itself.
So the different size tread blocks, different angles, they're offset against each other,
and that helps with the noise aspect in the comfort.
If I was trying to give a sort of a way of trying to explain that, if you imagine I'm
marching band or marching at the same beat together, it makes quite a loud noise.
If they march at different rates or different intervals, it just softens that.
Oh, right.
Okay.
So that is essentially what the tread design is trying to achieve.
So you almost build like a resonance in the tire.
That's it, yeah.
It's like when marching soldiers always break pattern when they cross a bridge.
Oh, to stop the bridge?
Yeah, the bridge.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah.
You always break marks when you cross a bridge.
Okay.
I've not done that before.
So yes.
I neither have I.
Yeah, I knew you.
Most pleasant to see.
Yeah, there you go.
Oh, well, I'm just noticing time because we're kind of...
Yeah, yeah.
Then the other tire, because there's something on the other tire I want to talk to you about,
which is to do with the noise, I guess.
The other tire is, well, first of all, it has the really sexy sidewall.
But it's also got sexy velvet in the middle of the tread blocks.
Yeah, unbelievable.
How do you manage to achieve this?
So that's the...
What's that?
I've got to get the name right.
Pilot Sport 5 Energy.
That's right.
Yes.
Got it right.
Yeah.
And so what...
So is that...
That's an evolution of the Pilot Sport 5, because I've got those on my mini, or is it a different tire?
It's a different tire.
So it's...
I would say it's probably closely registered the Pilot Sport EV, although it's not an EV tire as such.
Right.
So the Pilot Sport 5 and the Pilot Sport 5 engine will coexist,
similar to the Primacy 5 and the Primacy 5 energy.
Okay.
Yeah.
I can see it from here.
It's got foam on the inside.
Yes, yes.
So that, again, that's an additional technology which helps with the comfort and the acoustics
within the cabin, particularly for the likes of hybrid or electric vehicles where there's no
engine noise that...
To drown it out.
To drown it out.
Joe really enjoyed that in the Bournemouth.
Yeah, I'm sure.
I was making my own noises.
So it's estimated to reduce in cabin noise by perceived cabin noise,
which is probably the most important word to use, but up to 20%.
Wow.
Really?
So who thought that up?
Who thought, oh no, I'm going to put some sponge in the inside of the tire.
Yeah.
So it really does make a difference.
Yep.
And you factor that into the tread block design that we've just discussed,
from a comfort point of view.
I mean, you've tuned the radio up and...
So we drove that around the handling circuit in another Cooper in a taramar,
and that one, we kind of just drove quietly in comfort mode to start with.
But the thing that was motor-notable, when you backed off the throttle,
the car just kept rolling.
The rolling resistance was really noticeable, as in lack of rolling resistance.
Yeah, yeah.
And the support, I was really impressed with the support on that one.
As in, I don't know how much the taramar weighs, but it's not going to be light,
because it's a modern, medium-sized SUV.
But just the...
You jump in a car 10 years ago on a 10-year-old tire,
even a Michelin tire from back then, you're going to get a bit more roll in the car,
and you'll feel the tire rolling off its sidewall a little bit and the tread.
But it just felt so planted and square.
They have a 45-mil profile, which is not what you'd get in a typical sports car.
It's normally 25, 30, 35.
So you've got quite a big sidewall, again, in my head, thinking,
okay, the tire's going to deform a little bit as you load it up.
But it just felt really nice and flat and planted.
And actually, to the point that the tire was massively outperforming that taramar.
I mean, honestly.
Oh, my goodness.
Guess who we've got, special guest.
The boss is in.
I didn't know about this.
Mr. Bebendon, sir.
That is so cool.
We've never had it on the podcast before.
The real bin.
That is so cool.
Get some pictures back.
Take a picture.
This is definitely a case of...
Sorry for those of you that are listening.
Hold on.
I've got...
I'm going to do a selfie now.
Will the real Bebendon please stand up?
That's great.
Cheers, Beb.
That is so funny.
Oh, classic.
Where were we?
I don't know.
Oh, so as we get into a question, then, we've got the two tires.
So why would you go for one over the other for that in the kind of layman's term?
Yeah.
So if I was to try and explain it very simply, if you wanted comfort,
both of them achieve the same objectives in terms of safety,
longevity and efficiency.
But if you wanted comfort, go for the Primacy 5 energy.
If you wanted more of a sporty feel,
like dynamic response, precision handling,
the Passport 5 energy would be the tire for you.
In terms of wear and longevity, they're both going to be...
They're Michelins, they're going to last forever.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, we certainly hope so.
But yeah, they both will set out the same objectives
to give that longevity performance from the first mile to the last.
That's what Michelin...
Cool.
Nice.
I mean, I'd say the whole concept of tire launch is certainly my second tire launch.
And it does...
You need to approach it with a completely different mindset,
because normally we're all about the car, right?
And today, you're trying to feel different things.
And I do love the whole geeking out about tires.
And every time I come to one of these, you think,
so much I don't know.
Yeah.
Like you just mentioned about the tread box.
Didn't know that, I'm thinking right.
I need to do some reading about that, in a sense.
Yeah, and it's hard, isn't it?
I mean, it's hard for someone like Michelin to...
How much can you learn in a few hours?
The answer is not enough for a tire like that.
But actually, what we did this morning, when I turned up,
I was thinking, we're here for two sort of non-cup or sporty...
Okay, they're part of Sport 5.
But we're here at an experience centre.
What are we actually going to learn?
But actually, we learned things that I wasn't expecting to learn from the tire.
You were more stressed about the fact
that you were having to drive a Cooper ball.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it would have been nicer if they were on Porsches or something.
Yeah.
Yeah, but yeah.
Oh, yes, I like the Cooper ball.
But the takeaway for me, though, is...
And I know we say it a lot,
and the podcast sponsored by Michelin, of course,
so we've, of course, trying to promote Michelin tires.
But the importance of a good quality, premium tire,
that's right for your usage profile.
I know we bang on about it a lot,
but we do it because it's really important.
Yeah.
You know, the millions of pounds worth of R&D,
just in the development of those two tires alone,
you know, that's why if you've got your family wagon
with your most precious goods in it,
put decent tires on it, people.
It's not a difficult thing.
What tires are you going out on?
I've got Pilot Sport 4S.
Gosh, I can't get three sport.
Oh, great tire.
That is that.
We've talked about that on the podcast before.
That is an amazing tire.
It is.
How you do performance summer tire
that's got three peaks rated and take it to the Alps
and not need to have snow chains on it.
So I had them fitted prior to the launch of this tire.
Oh, nice.
I was too light, but I had it fitted to a TIG Y
and it's just transformed the vehicle completely.
Yeah, yeah.
Completely.
And how about you?
Pilot Sport S5.
Oh, S5 because you're in the M5.
You're in the M5.
You're feeling all right, mate.
You're in the M5.
Well, it's going back in 10 days.
I thought I'd better use it.
Sorry, Tony.
You've only driven it.
You've probably driven it all electric
because you literally live about three minutes.
Tony asked me, actually, yesterday,
he said, how many miles has the M5 done?
And I was like, it's actually done about 6,600.
And I was like, oh, about 7,000.
Trying to make it.
He's like, oh, all right.
OK, that's good.
Good trading, buddy.
Good trading.
And you're on Cross Climate 2s?
Yes.
On the peak.
Oh, yeah.
It's on the prasat.
Anyway.
Well, look at that.
We wanted to do it with 52 minutes in.
That's probably about right.
Yeah.
Guys, I hope you enjoyed that.
Please, if you did, and you're watching on YouTube,
hit the Subscribe button.
We are now.
We hit 10,000 subscribers.
You did.
Come on.
And if you're listening to us on a podcast,
if you can follow us and give us a rating
and all the things you know,
follow us on Instagram,
give Michelin UK a follow on Instagram as well.
Yeah.
Big thanks to Joe for coming on.
A massive thanks to Joe.
And if you've got any technical questions,
drop them in the comments.
And we'll get Joe to answer them.
And yeah, we'll get Joe.
Joe via James.
It might be a long-winded experiment.
But yeah.
And you're now no longer a podcast virgin.
That's your first podcast.
It is.
So you were very good.
Yeah.
Thank you for having me on.
You've been quite worried all morning.
I'll have, yes.
I'll have.
We're not that scary now.
No, no, no.
No.
But yeah, guys, we'll see you on the next one.
I hope you enjoyed that.
But yeah.
He's an owl.
He's an owl.
He's an owl.
Hey.
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