The Lamborghini Miura is a famous sports car from the 1960s and 70s, known for its beautiful looks and fast performance. It's considered one of the first supercars ever made.
Southern Cars is a dealership that sells classic cars, which are older cars that many people love to collect and restore. They help buyers find special cars from the past.
A classic car dealer sells old cars that are considered special or valuable because of their age and history. They know a lot about these cars and help people buy and sell them.
The Jaguar E-Type is a classic British sports car famous for its sleek look and speed. It was made a long time ago but is still loved by car enthusiasts today.
The Ferrari 308 GT4 is a sporty Italian car made by Ferrari in the 1970s. It's known for its unique look and powerful engine, making it a favorite among car lovers.
The 718 Cayman GT4 is a super sporty car that is really fun to drive fast. It's designed for people who love racing and want a car that feels great on the road.
The BMW E9 3.0 CSL is a classic car from the early 1970s, known for being lightweight and fast. It's called the 'Batmobile' because of its unique shape.
Modern classics are cars made in the last few decades that people still find cool and enjoyable to drive. They are not brand new but are appreciated for their style and features.
The Peugeot 205 GTI is a small, sporty car that many people loved for how well it handled and how fun it was to drive. It was made in the 1980s and 1990s and is still popular today.
The BMW M3 is a super sporty version of the regular BMW 3 Series. It's known for being really fun to drive and has a lot of power, making it popular with car lovers.
Car meets are events where people with cars come together to show off their vehicles and meet other car lovers. It's a social event for car enthusiasts.
Practical classics are older cars that you can still drive and enjoy without spending a lot of money. They're great for people who want to get into classic cars without breaking the bank.
The Jaguar XJ-S is a classy car that looks and feels luxurious. It's built for long drives and is known for being enjoyable to drive, making it a favorite among those who appreciate fine cars.
The Mercedes-Benz R129 is a model of convertible sports cars made from the late 1980s to early 2000s. They are appreciated for their style and features.
The Porsche 944 is another sports car from Porsche, made in the 1980s and early 1990s. It's appreciated for being fun to drive and is often seen as a good value.
The Aston Martin Vantage is a high-end sports car that is known for being fast and stylish. It has a powerful V8 engine and is considered a luxury vehicle.
The Porsche 996 is a version of the famous 911 sports car made between 1999 and 2004. It was the first 911 to use a water-cooled engine instead of an air-cooled one, which changed how the car performed.
The Triumph Dolomite Sprint is a sporty car from the 1970s that has a powerful engine and a unique design. It's considered a classic and is valued by collectors.
Car
Alfa Romeo Sprint
The Alfa Romeo Sprint is a cool-looking sports car that is fun to drive. It's known for being stylish and sporty, attracting people who love cars.
The Triumph 2500 TC is a classic car that was made in the 1970s. It has a bigger engine and is known for being comfortable to drive.
Car
P6
The Rover P6 is a car made by the British company Rover, known for being well-designed and fun to drive. It was made between the 1960s and 1970s and had a version with a powerful V8 engine.
Car
P5B
The Rover P5B is a luxury car made by Rover that has a powerful V8 engine. It was made in the late 1960s and early 1970s and is known for being very comfortable and stylish.
A straight six is a type of engine that has six cylinders lined up in a row. This kind of engine runs smoothly and is easier to work on than some other designs.
The Cadillac Coupe De Ville is a big, fancy car that was popular in the past for its comfort and style. It's the kind of car that makes you feel special when you drive it.
The Chevrolet Camaro is a fast and stylish car that many people love for its power and looks. It's a popular choice for those who enjoy driving and want a car that stands out.
The Range Rover is a fancy SUV that can handle rough terrains while keeping you comfortable inside. It's known for being big and luxurious, perfect for people who want both style and capability.
LIVE
This is The Tyre Kickers, classic car chat with Max and Matt.
Welcome to a Tyre Kickers Trade Talks bonus episode where we visit and talk classic cars
with the people who sell them, the traders and dealers.
The Tyre Kickers.
This episode, after I criticised a dealer for flipping cars straight off the auction
block, Sam Grange-Bailey from classic car specialist Southern Cars tells the story from
the other side.
I'm always really comfortable justifying my markup and my margin if something does sell
at auction. It's public forum, you know, everybody is at liberty to buy a car at auction.
As the offspring of car dealers, we talk about the glory days of the motor trade.
Back in the day, the car dealers were, you know, almost like the footballers of now.
If anybody was going to pull up in the village in a Miura, it was likely going to be a car
dealer.
We talk about underrated classics and the car show mafia.
It can be quite daunting walking over to a circle of deck chairs with people with their
backs to you and big signs in the window saying, like, no buckles, zips or belts and all that
kind of stuff.
Talk about her own choice of classic car, a Porsche 928.
I love the noise. There's such a, there's a lot of theatre around a 928, I think. Yeah,
I think it's the V8 verbal.
And take a 1960s classic Cadillac for a spin.
That is a lovely sound, that V8.
Couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.
It makes a fantastic noise.
All this on the latest bonus edition of Trade Talks from the Tyre Kickers.
So a few weeks ago on the Tyre Kickers podcast, I criticised an unnamed classic car dealer
for buying a car at auction on Saturday and then advertising it on their website the next
day for double the price they paid.
While using the screen grabs from the auction website.
They didn't even take fresh photos.
Just flipped for double the money.
That's what dealers do, isn't it?
I mean, they spot a good car, they, what, buy low, they sort it, they prep it and they
sell it on.
Hopefully for a profit.
I mean, that is their business.
What's your issue with that?
Well, yeah, but how much is too much?
And is that an acceptable markup?
I mean, how much work can you do to a car in 24 hours?
Plus, if I spotted that, how many other people have?
And is that a good look for a dealer or even their classic car trade?
Now, usually a dealer might argue they did some work, a service, some body work, etc.
But if it's up for sale the next day with auction house pictures, I mean, come on, even
Mike Brewer takes a hubcap to be rechromed.
So I think that is taking the Michael.
Sam Grange Bailey from Southern Cars is both a listener and a classic car dealer.
She heard me say this and got in touch to defend car dealers.
So I went up to her garage near Nutsford in the northwest of England and asked her to
give the other side of the story from the perspective of a classic car dealer.
I think I'm always really comfortable justifying my markup and my margin.
I think the main thing that you've got to bear in mind is the car is worth what it's
worth at retail.
Now, what I buy it for doesn't affect that.
So if I happen to buy it for 50% of that, for argument's sake, for easy maths, then
I've had a good day at the office.
And if I get it home and it needs very little doing, even better, it very rarely happens
like that.
The other thing I would say is that if something does sell at auction, it's public forum.
Everybody is at liberty to buy a car at auction.
What a lot of people do is let me take the risk and accept that there is an uplift to
that.
And if I have to take into account the gross VAT scheme.
So if I buy a car for 5, sell it for 10, I owe the VAT man the best part of a grand.
Regardless of what I then have to spend on it, I still owe the VAT man that best part
of a grand.
So I'm not trousering 5,000 pounds because I bought it for 5 and sold it for 10 just
with operating overheads and even transport and fees and everything else that goes on
top of it.
But I think the main thing that I take sort of slight umbrage with when people say, well,
you bought it at auction for X amount, I say, well, you could have bought it from auction
for the same.
You know, it's open forum.
I'm not doing anything I shouldn't be doing.
I'm just, you know, trawling through these cars that are coming up for sale and looking
for things that there might be some profit in.
I would say to that also that you mentioned the VAT.
It's a value added thing.
It's a tax on value that you've added.
And if you're flipping a car for that kind of money, are you really adding any value
to it?
Are you giving the consumer, the customer, the classic car customer, anything extra?
From my point of view, what I'm, the value I'm adding is I'm taking the risk by I'm the
one that's buying it at auction.
So that's the value I'm adding.
I'm taking the risk out of it for, for the consumer and for anybody who is happy to
take that risk.
Well, you know, there's lots of really reputable auction houses that you can go and buy a car
from, to be honest with you.
And you know, they are described pretty well these days with the photographs and the videos
and the driving videos, et cetera.
But I think in terms of the value I add, I take the risk, I bring the car in, I give
it a good going over, make sure they're all MOT regardless of age.
And, you know, we, we snag them, we go through it, we pick things up that need doing if we
buy one that needs absolutely nothing doing, we've, we've just had a good day at the office
and I can promise you it doesn't happen very often.
With the classic car community, it's such a close-knit group of people.
We're all watching each other as a sense.
If somebody is going to flip, they've got to be quite careful about it to make sure
they don't get a reputation because traders live and die on their reputation, essentially.
We do, but I think that in terms of the reputation, I think it's the quality of the car that you're
selling.
Is it good value for money in terms of market value?
And I think what you gave for that is almost irrelevant.
I don't think that should affect it.
I don't see why I should sell a car for two grand below market value because I managed
to buy it for two grand less than I would, would have normally bought it for.
I just think that's, that's part of the job is, is being on the ball with what things
are going for.
Is there still room for classic car dealers like this in a market where there's lots of
consumer laws and there's lots of regulations?
Is there still a market for that kind of like classic car dealing and flipping?
Yeah.
I mean, I think your profits in the buying, you know, we all know what they're worth and
what they're going to sell for.
And your profit is where, where you buy it at and, and what you then need to go and do
with it.
So I think, I think you need to know what you're looking for in terms of salability
and retail price.
But yeah, I think that the hard work is in the buying, not the selling in car dealing.
And I think if you can get that bit right, the rest will come.
That old phrase, you make your profit when you buy it, not when you sell it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you make your money in the buying.
The buying's where you make the money.
I think it's a bit of a shame that we're in December that we know we won't even advertise
till the spring, just because there is still seasonality.
And I think that, you know, the cost of the operation overheads of then storing them until
they are seasonally correct to be advertised is, is a cost that people forget we bear.
The kind of accusation of flipping and make you quick buck.
Is that something that annoys you?
No, I'm doing my job.
And if I, if I do it well, great.
If I flip a car very quickly, that's needed very little doing to it, then I've bought
really well.
That's how I view it.
Now, I see the point that dealers are making a living.
Like Sam, I'm from a family of car dealers, so I absolutely have no problem with that.
I just like to see more people coming into the classic car scene.
And if people spot obvious flipping, that might put them off.
Sam, though, makes the good point that auctions are open to everyone, so they're not doing
anything wrong.
Fair enough.
It's up to us to do our research as buyers.
Now, more from Sam in a second.
But first of all, what do you think?
Get in touch with the Tyre Kickers to give us your thoughts.
Here's our contact details.
You can get in touch with Max and Matt via our socials.
We're at the Tyre Kickers UK on Instagram and the Tyre Kickers on Facebook.
Now, put the kids of two car dealers together and what do you get?
The memories of deals being done in a fog of cigarette smoke and aftershave.
In the Wild West, there was the second-hand car business in the 1960s, 70s and 80s.
I was speaking to my friend Jason.
He was talking about going and looking at pictures when he was a kid with his dad.
And he said, you'd go to some of them and they'd open the caravan door and the dog would
lurch at you on the chain.
And it was just quite an intimidating, and by that time, you felt slightly obliged to
buy something off them because they'd come out to talk to you.
And I think that that whole sort of...
It was dodgy.
I mean, we all know that.
Everyone, we laugh about it and we look back with fond memories of it.
But yeah, I think it's a very welcoming industry now.
And for good reason, I think it has to be.
Even the auction houses now, there was a time where auctions were trade-only.
And even when they weren't trade-only, there'd be very few private buyers that would feel
comfortable buying from an auction.
Whereas now, the auction houses are great.
It's actually lower risk buying off a dealer or an auction house than it is buying privately
off a driver, I think, personally.
So what are your favourite kind of memories of growing up around classic cars and older
cars, and the people who dealt with them?
There was a camaraderie around it then, to be fair.
I don't know whether you'd call it honour amongst thieves, but there was...
If somebody came on your pitch for something and you didn't have it, but somebody did
in the next village or whatever, you'd send them down, you'd phone them up and you'd say,
I'm sending you somebody, and you'd have a drink out of it if they sold the car.
You know, I think it still happens in the classic car world.
I do think there's camaraderie amongst classic car dealers, but I suspect it doesn't happen
in sort of just modern used cars the way it used to.
Now, you said that you'd give somebody a drink out of it.
I remember a drink, because it wasn't a drink, was it?
It was either a proportion...
Cash, readies.
Was it a proportion of the deal, or was it a kind of fixed amount?
Was a drink 25 quid?
It depended on the deal, and it depended on the dealer, you know, but it was readies,
it was cash, you know.
If somebody sent someone down, you sold the car, and you got 500 quid profit, you'd give
them 50 quid or 100 quid or something like that.
It would just depend on the size of the deal, to be honest with you, and how much profit
you had in it.
But yeah, just giving somebody...
You know, we still say that now.
You'll have a drink out of it, or I'll give you a drink, or you owe me a drink.
And if somebody bought me a bottle of wine, I'd be mortified.
It's not that kind of drink.
I mean, I'd take it, don't get me wrong, but...
Your father was a motor trader, so you learnt the business from a very early age, at the
same time as me, actually.
I think we might be roughly the same age, without embarrassing either of us.
So it's a very different place now, isn't it?
Classic car and car trading.
It's completely different.
You know yourself, back in the 70s, you took your chances, sold a scene, drove it away.
The warranty was till you got past the bunting, and that was it.
But no, I think we have a responsibility now to the consumers, not just from a legislation
point of view, but I think that most of us feel really strongly about keeping the industry
ticking along.
You know, we want new people to come into the classic car scene, and I think if it
has a reputation of being a scary place where you're going to be had over, and the cars
are all estate, and it's going to cost you a fortune, and it's going to break your heart
and empty your bank account, we're not going to get new people coming in, and we're not
going to retain people.
So I think it's really important, from most of the dealers' point of views, to make sure
that we have happy customers.
I'm going to be honest with you, it's really tough out there, and repeat business and recommendations
are absolutely crucial to businesses, to small businesses like ours.
Because that's why I suppose your reputation is so important, because in the 70s and in
the 60s, if you had a bad reputation as a classic car dealer, it wasn't on social media,
it was in the pub.
And actually, it was almost as vicious and almost as fast as social media.
Yeah, very much so, and they tell their neighbours, and they tell their friends, and I think word
of mouth was probably the most useful marketing tool at the time.
I mean, I think, you know, an angry customer would probably write a strongly worded letter
to the local paper, or something like that, and that was as far as it would go.
But I think that that sort of reputation-led business has translated to what are now the
classic car dealers, so I think it's probably more so in our side of the game than new and
modern used cars, that it's really important that we have happy customers that talk favourably
about us.
And I think just being open and honest is the main driver for that, and I don't have
any problem, there's nothing wrong with selling a car with issues, as long as you sell it
as a car with issues.
Because quite often people like buying cars that they can add value and improve and tweak,
and often I don't, sort of, my money isn't in making those improvements, my money is
in moving them on to somebody who would actually really enjoy doing that themselves, they know
what they're buying, I've been very honest, and because of that, they'll come back to
me again.
So just tell me about your childhood as the daughter of a car dealer, a classic car dealer,
and a kind of used car dealer as well.
Yeah, Dad had a big pitch, and that was a lot of the bread and butter stuff, and we
also had garages at home where he would have, my Dad's always really liked pre-war cars,
so we would even have pre-war cars back then, and he was bringing cars in from America in
the 70s as well, which was quite unusual, so we always had really, sort of, an eclectic
mix, but yeah, we had about 40 cars on the pitch, and that would be everyday bread and
butter, family cars, and then you'd have some of the more exotic stuff, and some of the
older stuff as well.
Now I remember with my Dad, I used to go around with him like a mini-me when I was
eight or nine or ten years old, dressed like him, with the same cloth cap, and go and value
cars for him, because he'd go and chat to people in a fog of cigarette smoke and coffee
in the dealership, and I'd pop round the back looking at the part exchanges and trying to
value them for him.
So you do get a good sense, from quite an early age when you're doing that, of picking
out cars.
What was it like for you?
I think I was just really cleaning them at that stage, and I was in the caravan with
the cigar smoke, to be honest with you, but I think my Dad always liked really quirky
stuff, he always punted on really unusual cars, so I think I was lucky enough to grow
up with going out to look at cars with my Dad that were just really unusual and really
left field, so it was a very colourful time to grow up, and I feel really, really lucky,
particularly with some of the cars, but you know, the stuff we'd get taken to school in
that was just normal for me at the time, you look back and it just wasn't normal at all.
I do remember, if I didn't go to school in the back of a V12 E-Type or a Ferrari 308
GT4, I was really disappointed, if you have to go into something more prosaic, like a
Morris Itale or a Vauxhall Viva, it was a really disappointing day.
I cried in little paddies because we were going in the Miura, which meant my brother
had to sit on my knee, he was like, I can't be going in the clouds, I was probably really
bratty, like a 3500 GT or something, it was like that, but no, he's going to sit on my
knee, and I'm really quite bratty, little princess, and you look back now and you think,
well, dad just ran these cars, and we just jumped in and got taken to school, but it
wasn't normal.
But it was a fantastic childhood, wasn't it, because you were exposed to so much stuff
that we're really interested in, I remember a very fast ride back from school in a BMW
E9 3.0 litre CSL, you know, the CSL Batmobile was outside waiting for me at school, I mean
that was an amazing day.
I've grown up with a real sense of the cars I like, on reflection of very much the cars
I grew up with, to be honest with you, and it wears off on you, there's absolutely no
avoiding it, but I think that back in the day, the car dealers were almost like the
footballers of now, if anybody was going to pull up in the village in a Miura, it was
likely going to be a car dealer, whereas now, you don't really look twice at what the car
dealers are driving, because we don't have the flashiest cars anymore.
Now, to be fair, it wasn't just the dealer that could be a bit dodgy, the cars being
dealt were pretty bad then, to be honest, and I suppose expectations were different.
Rebuilding an engine after 50 or 60,000 miles was pretty normal, cars were expected to rust,
and it was up to the customer to buy underseal as an optional extra.
Now though, it's a very different place to buy and sell old cars, there are specialists,
buying guides, films, magazines, owners clubs, and plenty of meats, and the classic car trade
is mostly a more friendly place to be, plus let's face it, classic cars are much more
interesting than their modern alternatives.
So with new people showing an interest, what are the latest trends in the classic car market?
We've seen a little bit of an uplift in affordable practical modern classics, so things like
Mk2 Golf GTIs or a Peugeot 205 GTI, I think a lot of people that have traditionally driven
maybe an M3 company car that they really enjoy, have been now putting an electric car, because
that's the company policy, and they want a car that they love and enjoy, and I think
a lot of people have come into the classic car scene, particularly car meets, seen a
big uplift in newer modern classics coming to car meets, because it's a fairly low risk
entry.
There's a shift in the culture as well, I think the people that are coming in, the more
modern classics that are fairly new to it, that are enjoying the social side of it, you'll
see them at car shows and they're walking around and they're oohing and they're aahing,
whereas you get some of the old boys and they get the deck chair out, and they all sit round
together looking at their own cars, and they go to a car show so people can see their cars,
but they don't actually get up and go and look at anybody else's cars, and I've never
really understood that older school car show behaviour, but what we do see more now is
every other Thursday in a pub car park, and I think it's a lot more vibrant, a lot livelier,
and I think that Covid brought a lot of people together, and for a long time it was the only
kind of social life a lot of us had, going on car meets or drives or getting together
with friends, and it gave the industry a real boost.
That old culture of sitting around in deck chairs chewing on wasps and telling people
not to touch your car at a car show, that's what we don't like, so I've always thought
if you're going to take your car to a car show, talk to people about it, don't just
sit there and look angry, and I think the car meets and the cars and coffee and stuff,
that's what's making the scene come alive.
I mean I'll get to a car show, get out of my car and I probably won't stand next to
my car till I'm getting back in it to go home, I don't want to see my car, I know my car,
I want to go and look at the people's cars and I want to talk to people, and I think
the next, we need to keep bringing people into the industry and into the scene, we've
got to have the next generation coming through and I think by making it a fun social scene
it's much more welcoming and encouraging, because you know it can be quite daunting
walking over to a circle of deck chairs with people with their backs to you, and big signs
in the window saying no buckles, zips or belts and all that kind of stuff, but yeah I think
these sub 5, 10, 15 grand practical classics are an amazing way into the classic car scene
and I think if you buy right your hobby will pay for itself.
If we look at the classic car market now, what do you think is a really good buy, what's
hiding in plain sight that you can say that's a really good car to have at the moment, it's
relatively cheap and relatively good to drive?
I think it depends what you want to do with it, so if you want something that you can
use all year round that is probably unlikely to let you down, you're going to look really
cool, it's a joy to drive, then you can't go wrong with a Jag, XJS or an XJ, W124 Merc,
you know something that is going to be relatively easy to maintain, it's going to be a joy to
drive and it's going to put a massive smile on your face.
I think that there are certain cars, what I call low sided cars, things like MGA's and
TR3's that are incredible to drive, absolutely beautiful and are the best value I've ever
known them in my lifetime, so I think if you're looking for something to do more of
the earlier motoring in, I would certainly be looking at early TR's, I mean there was
a time where you couldn't give a TR6 away and a TR3 is really desirable and as tends
to happen in our cycle, that's sort of changing round a little bit now, but modern classics,
if you can find things like cars that tended to go forever that the mileage has normally
been to the moon and back, if you can find a low mileage example that stands out, so
anything like a low mileage W124, R129 Merc, the SL's I think they're really good news.
Oh we're talking the same language here, R129 for me is hiding in plain sight, they
need to be bought.
They are for nothing, I think you've just seen one go out this morning while you were
here, XJS, a 3.6, you've not got the worry of the big V12 at the front, they're really
easy to maintain, the manuals are a hoot to drive and you can buy them for two lolly
sticks and a balloon.
You know, if you're not looking at flipping or profit isn't on your radar and you're
looking for something to buy and run and enjoy and use and you're going to have them for
a few years, I think cars like that will probably, they will pay for your hobby for you.
Porsche 928, massively, I think anything that appears to be undervalued, but yeah I just
think cars that are a pleasure to drive and massively undervalued are worth looking
out for.
I still think the Porsche 944, half the engine trouble of the 928, a bit more rust sometimes
but I think those are really good value at the moment.
I'm a sucker for the noise you see, I like that V8, you know, you fire it up, the noise,
it's all about the drama with the 928, the verbal.
I think the 944s are incredibly useful cars and when you get a good one that isn't held
together by paint holding hands, they are.
Useful is damning with faint praise there isn't it?
No, sorry, what I mean is that they're fun to drive, they look great, they're easy enough
to maintain and they are still for nothing, but I think for me I just like the drama.
Because I think again the Aston Martin Vantage, the V8, they're really cheap at the moment.
The baby Astons are definitely on my mind.
And your hand built British Aston Martin.
Yeah and you can still get them for what £20-25 grand with sensible mileage.
I think they should be on everybody's radar, but we have been saying that for about three
or four years now and they haven't shot to £30-40 grand.
But again, lots of them around.
I saw a black on black one at an auction the other day, that went for £22,000, I got
70,000 miles on it.
It was a bit tired.
The only thing I would say and I think the thing that's probably held the V8s back the
baby Astons is that 996s, what would you rather have from a practical maintenance point of
view?
I'd have a 997 though.
Oh yeah, and for the same money you can.
And I think that's why the Astons are great value for money because I don't think they
can compete with Porsche.
And also I think Matt will love this as a Triumph stag owner, I think 70s Triumphs are
still really good value.
I think a Triumph Dolomite Sprint, if that had an Alfa Romeo badge in it or a BMW badge
it would be worth 2-3 times what it is.
I love the big engine Triumphs, the 2500 TC sold at an auction this week, or it didn't
sell at an auction this week, and it's heartbreaking how little they change hands for because
they are wonderful cars and they're so tunable, you know you can fettle them to within an
inch of their life and they're quick anyway, but you know as a hobby car goes I think they
take a lot of beating.
But I love a P6, I've had a couple of P6s, I love a 3500, I've had an S and an automatic,
again V8 verbal, can't beat it.
Even the P5B as well, Shadow or a P5B, well P5Bs fetch more money now.
You've just entered my head, that's the very debate I'm having at the moment about the
Shadow and the P5B, but I think the Shadow has more gravitas but the P5B's got a nice engine.
Look I'm a Shadow girl because I have a real soft spot for them.
My advice for anyone with a Shadow is if the weather's good daily them, just use them as
much as you can, the more you use them the better they get, but I think the P5B whilst
it was kind of the, was it the poor man's Shadow at the time?
It was kind of the Prime Minister's car as well at the time wasn't it?
The footballers never drove a P5B did they, the nightclub owner, the Blackpool nightclub
owner they were still left in, well Cadillacs actually they mostly had, it was a bit of
a North West thing that I think, but yeah I think at the time if you wanted to flashy
cash it was a Rolls rather than a Rover, but now I think a really nice P5B is a rare find
and will fetch as much money.
So you're going out to buy a car today, what are you going to pick?
Daily driver or classic for the weekends?
I'm going to say daily driver but it's got to be a classic, so something you can use
all the time that's still pretty relevant but still gives you that smile and you've
got to be engaged in the drive.
W124 Merck probably, I know it's on the cusp of modern, classic, classic but I think that
they drive like a modern car for me, I think that they are, they've aged so well, if I
didn't have three kids and a dog probably an R129.
But you can always lose the three kids and the dog.
Not yet, not yet.
Yeah I think the R129 is really one of those bargains and actually the 320 and the 500,
you know the straight six and the V6 and the V8s, they're still great cars.
I like the straight sixes, I think they do everything that they need to do and I think
they're much easier to maintain.
Right, we're just standing next to one of your cars in silver which is all masked up,
it's been done up, it's a car we've talked about, a Porsche 928, now tell me why do you
like these 928s?
They just tick all the boxes for me, I think they look like a spaceship when they came
out, do you remember them?
They were the fastest non-turbo Porsche as well for quite a long time so.
Good fact.
Fun fact, a bit more car nerdery.
I love the sound of them, I love the theatre of the big burbly V8s and as I get older I
just find them really comfortable to drive on long journeys.
I do use my cars so this will be sort of up and down the motorway with me all the time
and they're really usable, they're really practical and they're a lot of fun to drive.
And just common 928 problems, what should you look out for if you're buying a Porsche
928?
I think any car, particularly if you don't know when it was last cam belted, I'd always
get the cam belt done and the water pump, just routine and regular maintenance and they're
very underrated cars to drive, you know, these will sit at 100 all day long and not miss
a beat.
Obviously, you know, theoretically I wouldn't dream of doing 100 miles an hour for the benefit
of the date but they are just really useful cruisers, you can have a lot of fun with
them on the lanes, you can do a five hour drive in them and they just tick all the boxes
for me.
Early 928?
Late 928?
Where are you with that?
I like, so this is one I bought for myself and I've gone for the 4.7 litre engine.
I have had a later S4 5 litre but these are lighter so the compensation is that you don't
actually feel any difference when you're driving so these are a bit of a sweet spot for me
to be on.
I've had the late 5s, people say they're underpowered, I think, you know, I'd be wildly
overestimating my driving skills to say that I would even tell the difference but yeah,
non-interference engine, half the valves of the later S4s of the 5 litre so these just
tick a lot of boxes for me.
What are you having done to this one because at the moment it's obviously been sprayed
so you've just got all the masking tape on it, what are you going to do?
How far are you going to go?
This is it really, we're just going to, it's going to be flat and polished and then built
back up again.
I've had the cam belt and the water pump done first job and a big service so we'll
just do snagging run then, brake service and anything else that appears need, I mean they're
building it up, that's, I'm making that sound really easy, I'm sure most of the rubbers
will never go back on this car again.
Well I can see them all in the boot so.
Well we're going to start building it back up and then we do the shopping list of what
is going to work to go back on and what we're going to need to replace but I think this
one comes back to what we were talking about before, it's practical, it's usable and they're
still so affordable, you know you talk about what cars do you buy now to use as a classic,
for the cost of these, these are incredible.
As well as 928s, Sam likes American cars, big American cars.
In her stock is a 1962 Cadillac Coupe de Ville which was sitting in the corner of her workshop
while we were chatting.
Now I don't know much about American cars but it did look truly amazing, I've put some
pictures on our TyreKickers Instagram page, search for the TyreKickers UK so you can see
the Caddy.
So you're leaning on a Cadillac Coupe de Ville and I say you're leaning on it because it's
the size of a small town.
Where did you get this from?
This belonged to a gentleman who sadly died who actually knew my dad for donkey's years
as well but through somebody else we were offered this and an Alfa Romeo that he'd left.
So it had been in the garage for, he'd owned it for 34 years, it had been sat away in the
garage for about 10 I think so we've recommissioned it, mechanically, brakes, gearbox, everything.
The interior is incredible, it's absolutely brilliant, we've got all the electrics working,
it's got three-way electric seats these, I mean you think about what we were making
in 1962, it's just unbelievably engineered, I'd love you to take it round the block and
see what you think.
Oh yeah let's have a go, oh yeah do that again, because these American cars of this period
they are amazing, amazing quality.
I mean look at the panel fit and the door shuts on this, it's incredibly well put together,
it's a lovely example anyway to be honest with you, it needs a bit of a tidy up on the
body work but just a bit of remedial paint should have this absolutely spot on but again
the beauty for these as with a lot of cars is the joy of driving them for me.
That is a lovely sound that V8 isn't it, tremendous, how big is that engine?
I should know this shouldn't I, 7.5 litres I think, 7.5, 7.6, couldn't pull the skin
off a rice pudding but makes a fantastic noise.
So tell me about this car from the inside.
You've got lots of buttons on your side.
All the power windows and power seats, power, what's that?
Power seats, the seats go in three different directions, there you go, so yeah.
Does this take you back to being a kid, do you remember when you used to get in the car
and just run the batteries down by playing with the buttons and your dad would shout at you?
Dad used to supply the police with police cars, panda cars and stuff and in the showroom
at the time there was three or four minivans lined up with the full police lights and stuff
so he was handing them over to the police the next day and I went in there in the evening,
turned all the lights on, turned all the stop signs, turned all the horns on, what happened
when the police turned up?
Batteries were flat.
Nothing happened.
Exactly, so I was in terrible trouble for weeks about that, started my obsession with
police cars.
So we've got a valve radio, do you remember those, they warm up?
I do yeah, I have to say the quality of the interior, it's Rolls Royce quality isn't it,
it's really high.
Yeah, I keep harking back to this but when you think about what we were driving.
And what we were churning out as an industry isn't it, there's no handbrake is there now?
No.
Listen to that.
Now how am I getting, this car is huge, so how do I get, I've got to do a ten point turn
haven't I?
Now I think when you're in them they feel, they don't feel as big when you're in them
as they do when you're outside looking at them.
Well you can't see behind can you, because it's such a big car behind, you actually can't
see that.
Just need to go over the erm, you bend it, you mend it policy, Max before you set off.
You break it, you buy it.
Do you know what, I'd love to buy this, and how old is this, this is a 60?
1962.
So it's fingertip controls, let's go out, now we're on some very small Cheshire roads,
so it is going to be a bit of a battle isn't it?
It's always baptism of fire driving a Yanktac around here.
The only saving grace is we won't see much traffic.
That's true.
Just tractors.
But actually, so this is a, is this a three speed gearbox?
Yes.
I think we're already in top aren't we?
Yes.
So we're only doing 20 miles an hour.
Yeah, it moves up really quickly, very smoothly.
Just smoothly gone into top.
The fact Max that you just said we think we're in third, you didn't feel those three changes
did you?
No.
So the brakes are power brakes aren't they?
Yep.
They feel fantastic.
The brakes are really sharp.
And look at the dinker on the wing.
Oh my, so you can see the indicator flashing because it's got a kind of reverse indicator
so you can see the indicators on, that is very cool.
In case you didn't realise you were turning left to assist the Americans with the, it's
a driver's aid.
Because it's a corner, it's a bit of a struggle for an American car isn't it?
But you know, especially, you can imagine in the 70s in Manchester going to school in
stuff like this.
It was like a spaceship.
And actually it doesn't feel that wide does it?
No, this is where you can, I mean wouldn't you have a tantrum about having to go in a
mure if there was something like this on the drive next to you?
I don't know, I think I would have had a tantrum about the Allegro's that I was taking.
This is so nice.
You're smiling, they make you smile.
Oh automatically.
I mean how could you fail to?
I've got a smile the size of Cheshire on me because it's just, it's a lovely car to drive.
It's very easy to drive, I mean it's just, you know, straight away you can feel the torque,
the brakes are good, the steering is super light and it's got a comfy seat.
This is a comfy car.
What's not to love?
Amazing.
And do you ever have trouble parking?
Do you ever kind of struggle with it in the supermarket?
It doesn't take up full whole spaces in Sainsbury's in this to be honest and I tell the children
they don't clean their bedrooms, I'll pick them up from school in it.
Which way, left or right?
Left.
Left.
Is this the threat then?
This is the threat.
I used to have a Camaro SS and a Z28 and I made the threat and came good on it, picked
her up from school, from my teenage daughter and she, well first of all she went to the
wrong side of the car which was obviously embarrassing, she went back round to the right
side of the car and she literally sat down, huddled up and slid into the footwell.
Mum just pick us up in something normal.
Embarrassing mum.
It's like if you don't clean your bathroom I'm putting journey on full blast as well
when I hit you up if you want.
Now I don't think this is much bigger than a Range Rover is it?
I mean in terms of size it feels big but it's kind of like not dissimilar to a standard
Range Rover.
There's nothing scary about driving these once you're in them.
I know outside looking at them they look terrifyingly large but now you're in it, look at these
windy lanes.
These are very small lanes aren't they?
As long as you're clinging to the side it's alright.
Just a sharp left here, we go up here.
What I've noticed as well is when you look in the rear view mirror you get to see the
fins.
I can see the fins out the back and actually they are a long way away.
What's your first impressions?
I love it.
Do you?
Absolutely love it.
You know I instantly feel at home in it.
It's easy to drive, it just has that classic American relaxed feel to it.
You're not in a hurry here are you?
You just kind of enjoy yourself from cruising around.
You could go all day in this.
Oh absolutely.
From a sales point of view, because I am essentially just a used car sales person aren't I?
The trick with these cars is to get people in them because if you drive it you'll want
it.
If you've had them before and you know what they're like, fine.
If it's your first adventure with American classics, the best way for me to sell these
cars is to invite people to come and drive them.
Yeah I think it's amazing.
I think whoever buys this is going to be very lucky.
And also, find another one, or else you're going to get one of these in this country.
You're just not.
Of course here comes the challenge.
This is the reverse.
This is a big car to reverse.
You automatically do the elbow over the back seat, that sort of relaxed viewing stance.
But actually the fins, it's almost like a gun sight, you can point it roughly where
the fins are.
Well you know where the corners are.
Yeah absolutely.
That is a lovely, lovely car.
Glad you enjoyed it.
It would have been awful if you'd hated driving it wouldn't it?
You couldn't fail to like this if you've got petrol in your veins.
This is the car for you isn't it?
Tremendous.
Isn't it wonderful?
Yeah that's lovely, I love it.
Thank you very much.
I'm really glad you enjoyed it.
So shall I do the invoice now then?
I'm virtually reaching for my cheque book.
Wait till Matt finds out.
I managed to sell you a Cadillac while you were here.
It's quite different to a Stag but quite similar in certain ways.
Big floaty V8.
Without the reliability issues.
Yeah true.
I didn't buy it by the way but honestly I don't really have the room.
I absolutely loved it.
It didn't really feel that big.
It sort of shrinks around you until you glimpse the fins miles away in the rear view mirror.
Anyway a great car and a great drive.
Thanks to Sam for talking to us.
She's got a podcast of her own so check that out plus have a look on the tyre kicker's
Instagram page for pictures of the Caddy and also Sam's garage.
I grew up in the motor trade and I'm obviously growing old in the motor trade so as I'm semi-retiring
from dealing the business has been going since the 60s.
I took over from my dad and I just felt really strongly that before I shut the doors I want
to make sure that all these memories, you know as a car dealer's kid, when we're gone
they're gone.
So we are kind of going back down memory lane, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and we're talking
to some of the old characters and the dealer's wives who are much forgotten I would say.
Do listen to that episode for a rare insight into what went on behind the scenes.
But yeah I just want to record all these memories, I don't want them to go and I think when our
generation car dealers' kids have gone they're going to be gone forever and I think the stories
are worth telling and I think they're worth preserving.
So Sam's Wheels and Deals podcast can be found on your normal podcast provider.
I hope you've enjoyed this Trade Talks bonus episode.
Thanks to Sam for the invite and also the Cadillac experience.
A normal tyre kicker show with Matt is back next time.
So see you then.
Goodbye.
Bye.
About this episode
Max and Matt dive into the world of classic car trading with dealer Sam Grange-Bailey from Southern Cars. They discuss the ethics of flipping cars, the risks dealers take, and the importance of reputation in the classic car market. Sam shares her experiences growing up in a car dealer family and highlights underrated classics like the Porsche 928 and Cadillac Coupe de Ville. The episode also touches on the evolving culture of car shows and the rise of modern classics, making it a rich conversation for anyone interested in the classic car scene.
It's a flippin' new bonus episode of the Tyrekickers...this time a Trade Talks special with Sam Grange Bailey from Southern Cars. She got in touch when Max complained on a Tyrekickers episode about car dealers flipping classics and doubling the price. Sam gives the trade perspective and talks about her childhood in the 1970's car business, going to school in a Lamborghini Miura, the best classics to buy now, why Porsche 928's are hiding in broad daylight and she lets Max get behind the wheel of a classic 1960's Cadillac.
