The Real Truth About Dealing Classic Cars - Bonus Tyrekickers Trade Talks!

This is The Tyre Kickers, classic car chat with Max and Matt.

Welcome to a Tyre Kickers Trade Talks bonus episode where we visit and talk classic cars

with the people who sell them, the traders and dealers.

The Tyre Kickers.

This episode, after I criticised a dealer for flipping cars straight off the auction

block, Sam Grange-Bailey from classic car specialist Southern Cars tells the story from

the other side.

I'm always really comfortable justifying my markup and my margin if something does sell

at auction. It's public forum, you know, everybody is at liberty to buy a car at auction.

As the offspring of car dealers, we talk about the glory days of the motor trade.

Back in the day, the car dealers were, you know, almost like the footballers of now.

If anybody was going to pull up in the village in a Miura, it was likely going to be a car

dealer.

We talk about underrated classics and the car show mafia.

It can be quite daunting walking over to a circle of deck chairs with people with their

backs to you and big signs in the window saying, like, no buckles, zips or belts and all that

kind of stuff.

Talk about her own choice of classic car, a Porsche 928.

I love the noise. There's such a, there's a lot of theatre around a 928, I think. Yeah,

I think it's the V8 verbal.

And take a 1960s classic Cadillac for a spin.

That is a lovely sound, that V8.

Couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

It makes a fantastic noise.

All this on the latest bonus edition of Trade Talks from the Tyre Kickers.

So a few weeks ago on the Tyre Kickers podcast, I criticised an unnamed classic car dealer

for buying a car at auction on Saturday and then advertising it on their website the next

day for double the price they paid.

While using the screen grabs from the auction website.

They didn't even take fresh photos.

Just flipped for double the money.

That's what dealers do, isn't it?

I mean, they spot a good car, they, what, buy low, they sort it, they prep it and they

sell it on.

Hopefully for a profit.

I mean, that is their business.

What's your issue with that?

Well, yeah, but how much is too much?

And is that an acceptable markup?

I mean, how much work can you do to a car in 24 hours?

Plus, if I spotted that, how many other people have?

And is that a good look for a dealer or even their classic car trade?

Now, usually a dealer might argue they did some work, a service, some body work, etc.

But if it's up for sale the next day with auction house pictures, I mean, come on, even

Mike Brewer takes a hubcap to be rechromed.

So I think that is taking the Michael.

Sam Grange Bailey from Southern Cars is both a listener and a classic car dealer.

She heard me say this and got in touch to defend car dealers.

So I went up to her garage near Nutsford in the northwest of England and asked her to

give the other side of the story from the perspective of a classic car dealer.

I think I'm always really comfortable justifying my markup and my margin.

I think the main thing that you've got to bear in mind is the car is worth what it's

worth at retail.

Now, what I buy it for doesn't affect that.

So if I happen to buy it for 50% of that, for argument's sake, for easy maths, then

I've had a good day at the office.

And if I get it home and it needs very little doing, even better, it very rarely happens

like that.

The other thing I would say is that if something does sell at auction, it's public forum.

Everybody is at liberty to buy a car at auction.

What a lot of people do is let me take the risk and accept that there is an uplift to

that.

And if I have to take into account the gross VAT scheme.

So if I buy a car for 5, sell it for 10, I owe the VAT man the best part of a grand.

Regardless of what I then have to spend on it, I still owe the VAT man that best part

of a grand.

So I'm not trousering 5,000 pounds because I bought it for 5 and sold it for 10 just

with operating overheads and even transport and fees and everything else that goes on

top of it.

But I think the main thing that I take sort of slight umbrage with when people say, well,

you bought it at auction for X amount, I say, well, you could have bought it from auction

for the same.

You know, it's open forum.

I'm not doing anything I shouldn't be doing.

I'm just, you know, trawling through these cars that are coming up for sale and looking

for things that there might be some profit in.

I would say to that also that you mentioned the VAT.

It's a value added thing.

It's a tax on value that you've added.

And if you're flipping a car for that kind of money, are you really adding any value

to it?

Are you giving the consumer, the customer, the classic car customer, anything extra?

From my point of view, what I'm, the value I'm adding is I'm taking the risk by I'm the

one that's buying it at auction.

So that's the value I'm adding.

I'm taking the risk out of it for, for the consumer and for anybody who is happy to

take that risk.

Well, you know, there's lots of really reputable auction houses that you can go and buy a car

from, to be honest with you.

And you know, they are described pretty well these days with the photographs and the videos

and the driving videos, et cetera.

But I think in terms of the value I add, I take the risk, I bring the car in, I give

it a good going over, make sure they're all MOT regardless of age.

And, you know, we, we snag them, we go through it, we pick things up that need doing if we

buy one that needs absolutely nothing doing, we've, we've just had a good day at the office

and I can promise you it doesn't happen very often.

With the classic car community, it's such a close-knit group of people.

We're all watching each other as a sense.

If somebody is going to flip, they've got to be quite careful about it to make sure

they don't get a reputation because traders live and die on their reputation, essentially.

We do, but I think that in terms of the reputation, I think it's the quality of the car that you're

selling.

Is it good value for money in terms of market value?

And I think what you gave for that is almost irrelevant.

I don't think that should affect it.

I don't see why I should sell a car for two grand below market value because I managed

to buy it for two grand less than I would, would have normally bought it for.

I just think that's, that's part of the job is, is being on the ball with what things

are going for.

Is there still room for classic car dealers like this in a market where there's lots of

consumer laws and there's lots of regulations?

Is there still a market for that kind of like classic car dealing and flipping?

Yeah.

I mean, I think your profits in the buying, you know, we all know what they're worth and

what they're going to sell for.

And your profit is where, where you buy it at and, and what you then need to go and do

with it.

So I think, I think you need to know what you're looking for in terms of salability

and retail price.

But yeah, I think that the hard work is in the buying, not the selling in car dealing.

And I think if you can get that bit right, the rest will come.

That old phrase, you make your profit when you buy it, not when you sell it.

Yeah.

But you make your money in the buying.

The buying's where you make the money.

I think it's a bit of a shame that we're in December that we know we won't even advertise

till the spring, just because there is still seasonality.

And I think that, you know, the cost of the operation overheads of then storing them until

they are seasonally correct to be advertised is, is a cost that people forget we bear.

The kind of accusation of flipping and make you quick buck.

Is that something that annoys you?

No, I'm doing my job.

And if I, if I do it well, great.

If I flip a car very quickly, that's needed very little doing to it, then I've bought

really well.

That's how I view it.

Now, I see the point that dealers are making a living.

Like Sam, I'm from a family of car dealers, so I absolutely have no problem with that.

I just like to see more people coming into the classic car scene.

And if people spot obvious flipping, that might put them off.

Sam, though, makes the good point that auctions are open to everyone, so they're not doing

anything wrong.

Fair enough.

It's up to us to do our research as buyers.

Now, more from Sam in a second.

But first of all, what do you think?

Get in touch with the Tyre Kickers to give us your thoughts.

Here's our contact details.

You can get in touch with Max and Matt via our socials.

We're at the Tyre Kickers UK on Instagram and the Tyre Kickers on Facebook.

Now, put the kids of two car dealers together and what do you get?

The memories of deals being done in a fog of cigarette smoke and aftershave.

In the Wild West, there was the second-hand car business in the 1960s, 70s and 80s.

I was speaking to my friend Jason.

He was talking about going and looking at pictures when he was a kid with his dad.

And he said, you'd go to some of them and they'd open the caravan door and the dog would

lurch at you on the chain.

And it was just quite an intimidating, and by that time, you felt slightly obliged to

buy something off them because they'd come out to talk to you.

And I think that that whole sort of...

It was dodgy.

I mean, we all know that.

Everyone, we laugh about it and we look back with fond memories of it.

But yeah, I think it's a very welcoming industry now.

And for good reason, I think it has to be.

Even the auction houses now, there was a time where auctions were trade-only.

And even when they weren't trade-only, there'd be very few private buyers that would feel

comfortable buying from an auction.

Whereas now, the auction houses are great.

It's actually lower risk buying off a dealer or an auction house than it is buying privately

off a driver, I think, personally.

So what are your favourite kind of memories of growing up around classic cars and older

cars, and the people who dealt with them?

There was a camaraderie around it then, to be fair.

I don't know whether you'd call it honour amongst thieves, but there was...

If somebody came on your pitch for something and you didn't have it, but somebody did

in the next village or whatever, you'd send them down, you'd phone them up and you'd say,

I'm sending you somebody, and you'd have a drink out of it if they sold the car.

You know, I think it still happens in the classic car world.

I do think there's camaraderie amongst classic car dealers, but I suspect it doesn't happen

in sort of just modern used cars the way it used to.

Now, you said that you'd give somebody a drink out of it.

I remember a drink, because it wasn't a drink, was it?

It was either a proportion...

Cash, readies.

Was it a proportion of the deal, or was it a kind of fixed amount?

Was a drink 25 quid?

It depended on the deal, and it depended on the dealer, you know, but it was readies,

it was cash, you know.

If somebody sent someone down, you sold the car, and you got 500 quid profit, you'd give

them 50 quid or 100 quid or something like that.

It would just depend on the size of the deal, to be honest with you, and how much profit

you had in it.

But yeah, just giving somebody...

You know, we still say that now.

You'll have a drink out of it, or I'll give you a drink, or you owe me a drink.

And if somebody bought me a bottle of wine, I'd be mortified.

It's not that kind of drink.

I mean, I'd take it, don't get me wrong, but...

Your father was a motor trader, so you learnt the business from a very early age, at the

same time as me, actually.

I think we might be roughly the same age, without embarrassing either of us.

So it's a very different place now, isn't it?

Classic car and car trading.

It's completely different.

You know yourself, back in the 70s, you took your chances, sold a scene, drove it away.

The warranty was till you got past the bunting, and that was it.

But no, I think we have a responsibility now to the consumers, not just from a legislation

point of view, but I think that most of us feel really strongly about keeping the industry

ticking along.

You know, we want new people to come into the classic car scene, and I think if it

has a reputation of being a scary place where you're going to be had over, and the cars

are all estate, and it's going to cost you a fortune, and it's going to break your heart

and empty your bank account, we're not going to get new people coming in, and we're not

going to retain people.

So I think it's really important, from most of the dealers' point of views, to make sure

that we have happy customers.

I'm going to be honest with you, it's really tough out there, and repeat business and recommendations

are absolutely crucial to businesses, to small businesses like ours.

Because that's why I suppose your reputation is so important, because in the 70s and in

the 60s, if you had a bad reputation as a classic car dealer, it wasn't on social media,

it was in the pub.

And actually, it was almost as vicious and almost as fast as social media.

Yeah, very much so, and they tell their neighbours, and they tell their friends, and I think word

of mouth was probably the most useful marketing tool at the time.

I mean, I think, you know, an angry customer would probably write a strongly worded letter

to the local paper, or something like that, and that was as far as it would go.

But I think that that sort of reputation-led business has translated to what are now the

classic car dealers, so I think it's probably more so in our side of the game than new and

modern used cars, that it's really important that we have happy customers that talk favourably

about us.

And I think just being open and honest is the main driver for that, and I don't have

any problem, there's nothing wrong with selling a car with issues, as long as you sell it

as a car with issues.

Because quite often people like buying cars that they can add value and improve and tweak,

and often I don't, sort of, my money isn't in making those improvements, my money is

in moving them on to somebody who would actually really enjoy doing that themselves, they know

what they're buying, I've been very honest, and because of that, they'll come back to

me again.

So just tell me about your childhood as the daughter of a car dealer, a classic car dealer,

and a kind of used car dealer as well.

Yeah, Dad had a big pitch, and that was a lot of the bread and butter stuff, and we

also had garages at home where he would have, my Dad's always really liked pre-war cars,

so we would even have pre-war cars back then, and he was bringing cars in from America in

the 70s as well, which was quite unusual, so we always had really, sort of, an eclectic

mix, but yeah, we had about 40 cars on the pitch, and that would be everyday bread and

butter, family cars, and then you'd have some of the more exotic stuff, and some of the

older stuff as well.

Now I remember with my Dad, I used to go around with him like a mini-me when I was

eight or nine or ten years old, dressed like him, with the same cloth cap, and go and value

cars for him, because he'd go and chat to people in a fog of cigarette smoke and coffee

in the dealership, and I'd pop round the back looking at the part exchanges and trying to

value them for him.

So you do get a good sense, from quite an early age when you're doing that, of picking

out cars.

What was it like for you?

I think I was just really cleaning them at that stage, and I was in the caravan with

the cigar smoke, to be honest with you, but I think my Dad always liked really quirky

stuff, he always punted on really unusual cars, so I think I was lucky enough to grow

up with going out to look at cars with my Dad that were just really unusual and really

left field, so it was a very colourful time to grow up, and I feel really, really lucky,

particularly with some of the cars, but you know, the stuff we'd get taken to school in

that was just normal for me at the time, you look back and it just wasn't normal at all.

I do remember, if I didn't go to school in the back of a V12 E-Type or a Ferrari 308

GT4, I was really disappointed, if you have to go into something more prosaic, like a

Morris Itale or a Vauxhall Viva, it was a really disappointing day.

I cried in little paddies because we were going in the Miura, which meant my brother

had to sit on my knee, he was like, I can't be going in the clouds, I was probably really

bratty, like a 3500 GT or something, it was like that, but no, he's going to sit on my

knee, and I'm really quite bratty, little princess, and you look back now and you think,

well, dad just ran these cars, and we just jumped in and got taken to school, but it

wasn't normal.

But it was a fantastic childhood, wasn't it, because you were exposed to so much stuff

that we're really interested in, I remember a very fast ride back from school in a BMW

E9 3.0 litre CSL, you know, the CSL Batmobile was outside waiting for me at school, I mean

that was an amazing day.

I've grown up with a real sense of the cars I like, on reflection of very much the cars

I grew up with, to be honest with you, and it wears off on you, there's absolutely no

avoiding it, but I think that back in the day, the car dealers were almost like the

footballers of now, if anybody was going to pull up in the village in a Miura, it was

likely going to be a car dealer, whereas now, you don't really look twice at what the car

dealers are driving, because we don't have the flashiest cars anymore.

Now, to be fair, it wasn't just the dealer that could be a bit dodgy, the cars being

dealt were pretty bad then, to be honest, and I suppose expectations were different.

Rebuilding an engine after 50 or 60,000 miles was pretty normal, cars were expected to rust,

and it was up to the customer to buy underseal as an optional extra.

Now though, it's a very different place to buy and sell old cars, there are specialists,

buying guides, films, magazines, owners clubs, and plenty of meats, and the classic car trade

is mostly a more friendly place to be, plus let's face it, classic cars are much more

interesting than their modern alternatives.

So with new people showing an interest, what are the latest trends in the classic car market?

We've seen a little bit of an uplift in affordable practical modern classics, so things like

Mk2 Golf GTIs or a Peugeot 205 GTI, I think a lot of people that have traditionally driven

maybe an M3 company car that they really enjoy, have been now putting an electric car, because

that's the company policy, and they want a car that they love and enjoy, and I think

a lot of people have come into the classic car scene, particularly car meets, seen a

big uplift in newer modern classics coming to car meets, because it's a fairly low risk

entry.

There's a shift in the culture as well, I think the people that are coming in, the more

modern classics that are fairly new to it, that are enjoying the social side of it, you'll

see them at car shows and they're walking around and they're oohing and they're aahing,

whereas you get some of the old boys and they get the deck chair out, and they all sit round

together looking at their own cars, and they go to a car show so people can see their cars,

but they don't actually get up and go and look at anybody else's cars, and I've never

really understood that older school car show behaviour, but what we do see more now is

every other Thursday in a pub car park, and I think it's a lot more vibrant, a lot livelier,

and I think that Covid brought a lot of people together, and for a long time it was the only

kind of social life a lot of us had, going on car meets or drives or getting together

with friends, and it gave the industry a real boost.

That old culture of sitting around in deck chairs chewing on wasps and telling people

not to touch your car at a car show, that's what we don't like, so I've always thought

if you're going to take your car to a car show, talk to people about it, don't just

sit there and look angry, and I think the car meets and the cars and coffee and stuff,

that's what's making the scene come alive.

I mean I'll get to a car show, get out of my car and I probably won't stand next to

my car till I'm getting back in it to go home, I don't want to see my car, I know my car,

I want to go and look at the people's cars and I want to talk to people, and I think

the next, we need to keep bringing people into the industry and into the scene, we've

got to have the next generation coming through and I think by making it a fun social scene

it's much more welcoming and encouraging, because you know it can be quite daunting

walking over to a circle of deck chairs with people with their backs to you, and big signs

in the window saying no buckles, zips or belts and all that kind of stuff, but yeah I think

these sub 5, 10, 15 grand practical classics are an amazing way into the classic car scene

and I think if you buy right your hobby will pay for itself.

If we look at the classic car market now, what do you think is a really good buy, what's

hiding in plain sight that you can say that's a really good car to have at the moment, it's

relatively cheap and relatively good to drive?

I think it depends what you want to do with it, so if you want something that you can

use all year round that is probably unlikely to let you down, you're going to look really

cool, it's a joy to drive, then you can't go wrong with a Jag, XJS or an XJ, W124 Merc,

you know something that is going to be relatively easy to maintain, it's going to be a joy to

drive and it's going to put a massive smile on your face.

I think that there are certain cars, what I call low sided cars, things like MGA's and

TR3's that are incredible to drive, absolutely beautiful and are the best value I've ever

known them in my lifetime, so I think if you're looking for something to do more of

the earlier motoring in, I would certainly be looking at early TR's, I mean there was

a time where you couldn't give a TR6 away and a TR3 is really desirable and as tends

to happen in our cycle, that's sort of changing round a little bit now, but modern classics,

if you can find things like cars that tended to go forever that the mileage has normally

been to the moon and back, if you can find a low mileage example that stands out, so

anything like a low mileage W124, R129 Merc, the SL's I think they're really good news.

Oh we're talking the same language here, R129 for me is hiding in plain sight, they

need to be bought.

They are for nothing, I think you've just seen one go out this morning while you were

here, XJS, a 3.6, you've not got the worry of the big V12 at the front, they're really

easy to maintain, the manuals are a hoot to drive and you can buy them for two lolly

sticks and a balloon.

You know, if you're not looking at flipping or profit isn't on your radar and you're

looking for something to buy and run and enjoy and use and you're going to have them for

a few years, I think cars like that will probably, they will pay for your hobby for you.

Porsche 928, massively, I think anything that appears to be undervalued, but yeah I just

think cars that are a pleasure to drive and massively undervalued are worth looking

out for.

I still think the Porsche 944, half the engine trouble of the 928, a bit more rust sometimes

but I think those are really good value at the moment.

I'm a sucker for the noise you see, I like that V8, you know, you fire it up, the noise,

it's all about the drama with the 928, the verbal.

I think the 944s are incredibly useful cars and when you get a good one that isn't held

together by paint holding hands, they are.

Useful is damning with faint praise there isn't it?

No, sorry, what I mean is that they're fun to drive, they look great, they're easy enough

to maintain and they are still for nothing, but I think for me I just like the drama.

Because I think again the Aston Martin Vantage, the V8, they're really cheap at the moment.

The baby Astons are definitely on my mind.

And your hand built British Aston Martin.

Yeah and you can still get them for what £20-25 grand with sensible mileage.

I think they should be on everybody's radar, but we have been saying that for about three

or four years now and they haven't shot to £30-40 grand.

But again, lots of them around.

I saw a black on black one at an auction the other day, that went for £22,000, I got

70,000 miles on it.

It was a bit tired.

The only thing I would say and I think the thing that's probably held the V8s back the

baby Astons is that 996s, what would you rather have from a practical maintenance point of

view?

I'd have a 997 though.

Oh yeah, and for the same money you can.

And I think that's why the Astons are great value for money because I don't think they

can compete with Porsche.

And also I think Matt will love this as a Triumph stag owner, I think 70s Triumphs are

still really good value.

I think a Triumph Dolomite Sprint, if that had an Alfa Romeo badge in it or a BMW badge

it would be worth 2-3 times what it is.

I love the big engine Triumphs, the 2500 TC sold at an auction this week, or it didn't

sell at an auction this week, and it's heartbreaking how little they change hands for because

they are wonderful cars and they're so tunable, you know you can fettle them to within an

inch of their life and they're quick anyway, but you know as a hobby car goes I think they

take a lot of beating.

But I love a P6, I've had a couple of P6s, I love a 3500, I've had an S and an automatic,

again V8 verbal, can't beat it.

Even the P5B as well, Shadow or a P5B, well P5Bs fetch more money now.

You've just entered my head, that's the very debate I'm having at the moment about the

Shadow and the P5B, but I think the Shadow has more gravitas but the P5B's got a nice engine.

Look I'm a Shadow girl because I have a real soft spot for them.

My advice for anyone with a Shadow is if the weather's good daily them, just use them as

much as you can, the more you use them the better they get, but I think the P5B whilst

it was kind of the, was it the poor man's Shadow at the time?

It was kind of the Prime Minister's car as well at the time wasn't it?

The footballers never drove a P5B did they, the nightclub owner, the Blackpool nightclub

owner they were still left in, well Cadillacs actually they mostly had, it was a bit of

a North West thing that I think, but yeah I think at the time if you wanted to flashy

cash it was a Rolls rather than a Rover, but now I think a really nice P5B is a rare find

and will fetch as much money.

So you're going out to buy a car today, what are you going to pick?

Daily driver or classic for the weekends?

I'm going to say daily driver but it's got to be a classic, so something you can use

all the time that's still pretty relevant but still gives you that smile and you've

got to be engaged in the drive.

W124 Merck probably, I know it's on the cusp of modern, classic, classic but I think that

they drive like a modern car for me, I think that they are, they've aged so well, if I

didn't have three kids and a dog probably an R129.

But you can always lose the three kids and the dog.

Not yet, not yet.

Yeah I think the R129 is really one of those bargains and actually the 320 and the 500,

you know the straight six and the V6 and the V8s, they're still great cars.

I like the straight sixes, I think they do everything that they need to do and I think

they're much easier to maintain.

Right, we're just standing next to one of your cars in silver which is all masked up,

it's been done up, it's a car we've talked about, a Porsche 928, now tell me why do you

like these 928s?

They just tick all the boxes for me, I think they look like a spaceship when they came

out, do you remember them?

They were the fastest non-turbo Porsche as well for quite a long time so.

Good fact.

Fun fact, a bit more car nerdery.

I love the sound of them, I love the theatre of the big burbly V8s and as I get older I

just find them really comfortable to drive on long journeys.

I do use my cars so this will be sort of up and down the motorway with me all the time

and they're really usable, they're really practical and they're a lot of fun to drive.

And just common 928 problems, what should you look out for if you're buying a Porsche

928?

I think any car, particularly if you don't know when it was last cam belted, I'd always

get the cam belt done and the water pump, just routine and regular maintenance and they're

very underrated cars to drive, you know, these will sit at 100 all day long and not miss

a beat.

Obviously, you know, theoretically I wouldn't dream of doing 100 miles an hour for the benefit

of the date but they are just really useful cruisers, you can have a lot of fun with

them on the lanes, you can do a five hour drive in them and they just tick all the boxes

for me.

Early 928?

Late 928?

Where are you with that?

I like, so this is one I bought for myself and I've gone for the 4.7 litre engine.

I have had a later S4 5 litre but these are lighter so the compensation is that you don't

actually feel any difference when you're driving so these are a bit of a sweet spot for me

to be on.

I've had the late 5s, people say they're underpowered, I think, you know, I'd be wildly

overestimating my driving skills to say that I would even tell the difference but yeah,

non-interference engine, half the valves of the later S4s of the 5 litre so these just

tick a lot of boxes for me.

What are you having done to this one because at the moment it's obviously been sprayed

so you've just got all the masking tape on it, what are you going to do?

How far are you going to go?

This is it really, we're just going to, it's going to be flat and polished and then built

back up again.

I've had the cam belt and the water pump done first job and a big service so we'll

just do snagging run then, brake service and anything else that appears need, I mean they're

building it up, that's, I'm making that sound really easy, I'm sure most of the rubbers

will never go back on this car again.

Well I can see them all in the boot so.

Well we're going to start building it back up and then we do the shopping list of what

is going to work to go back on and what we're going to need to replace but I think this

one comes back to what we were talking about before, it's practical, it's usable and they're

still so affordable, you know you talk about what cars do you buy now to use as a classic,

for the cost of these, these are incredible.

As well as 928s, Sam likes American cars, big American cars.

In her stock is a 1962 Cadillac Coupe de Ville which was sitting in the corner of her workshop

while we were chatting.

Now I don't know much about American cars but it did look truly amazing, I've put some

pictures on our TyreKickers Instagram page, search for the TyreKickers UK so you can see

the Caddy.

So you're leaning on a Cadillac Coupe de Ville and I say you're leaning on it because it's

the size of a small town.

Where did you get this from?

This belonged to a gentleman who sadly died who actually knew my dad for donkey's years

as well but through somebody else we were offered this and an Alfa Romeo that he'd left.

So it had been in the garage for, he'd owned it for 34 years, it had been sat away in the

garage for about 10 I think so we've recommissioned it, mechanically, brakes, gearbox, everything.

The interior is incredible, it's absolutely brilliant, we've got all the electrics working,

it's got three-way electric seats these, I mean you think about what we were making

in 1962, it's just unbelievably engineered, I'd love you to take it round the block and

see what you think.

Oh yeah let's have a go, oh yeah do that again, because these American cars of this period

they are amazing, amazing quality.

I mean look at the panel fit and the door shuts on this, it's incredibly well put together,

it's a lovely example anyway to be honest with you, it needs a bit of a tidy up on the

body work but just a bit of remedial paint should have this absolutely spot on but again

the beauty for these as with a lot of cars is the joy of driving them for me.

That is a lovely sound that V8 isn't it, tremendous, how big is that engine?

I should know this shouldn't I, 7.5 litres I think, 7.5, 7.6, couldn't pull the skin

off a rice pudding but makes a fantastic noise.

So tell me about this car from the inside.

You've got lots of buttons on your side.

All the power windows and power seats, power, what's that?

Power seats, the seats go in three different directions, there you go, so yeah.

Does this take you back to being a kid, do you remember when you used to get in the car

and just run the batteries down by playing with the buttons and your dad would shout at you?

Dad used to supply the police with police cars, panda cars and stuff and in the showroom

at the time there was three or four minivans lined up with the full police lights and stuff

so he was handing them over to the police the next day and I went in there in the evening,

turned all the lights on, turned all the stop signs, turned all the horns on, what happened

when the police turned up?

Batteries were flat.

Nothing happened.

Exactly, so I was in terrible trouble for weeks about that, started my obsession with

police cars.

So we've got a valve radio, do you remember those, they warm up?

I do yeah, I have to say the quality of the interior, it's Rolls Royce quality isn't it,

it's really high.

Yeah, I keep harking back to this but when you think about what we were driving.

And what we were churning out as an industry isn't it, there's no handbrake is there now?

No.

Listen to that.

Now how am I getting, this car is huge, so how do I get, I've got to do a ten point turn

haven't I?

Now I think when you're in them they feel, they don't feel as big when you're in them

as they do when you're outside looking at them.

Well you can't see behind can you, because it's such a big car behind, you actually can't

see that.

Just need to go over the erm, you bend it, you mend it policy, Max before you set off.

You break it, you buy it.

Do you know what, I'd love to buy this, and how old is this, this is a 60?

1962.

So it's fingertip controls, let's go out, now we're on some very small Cheshire roads,

so it is going to be a bit of a battle isn't it?

It's always baptism of fire driving a Yanktac around here.

The only saving grace is we won't see much traffic.

That's true.

Just tractors.

But actually, so this is a, is this a three speed gearbox?

Yes.

I think we're already in top aren't we?

Yes.

So we're only doing 20 miles an hour.

Yeah, it moves up really quickly, very smoothly.

Just smoothly gone into top.

The fact Max that you just said we think we're in third, you didn't feel those three changes

did you?

No.

So the brakes are power brakes aren't they?

Yep.

They feel fantastic.

The brakes are really sharp.

And look at the dinker on the wing.

Oh my, so you can see the indicator flashing because it's got a kind of reverse indicator

so you can see the indicators on, that is very cool.

In case you didn't realise you were turning left to assist the Americans with the, it's

a driver's aid.

Because it's a corner, it's a bit of a struggle for an American car isn't it?

But you know, especially, you can imagine in the 70s in Manchester going to school in

stuff like this.

It was like a spaceship.

And actually it doesn't feel that wide does it?

No, this is where you can, I mean wouldn't you have a tantrum about having to go in a

mure if there was something like this on the drive next to you?

I don't know, I think I would have had a tantrum about the Allegro's that I was taking.

This is so nice.

You're smiling, they make you smile.

Oh automatically.

I mean how could you fail to?

I've got a smile the size of Cheshire on me because it's just, it's a lovely car to drive.

It's very easy to drive, I mean it's just, you know, straight away you can feel the torque,

the brakes are good, the steering is super light and it's got a comfy seat.

This is a comfy car.

What's not to love?

Amazing.

And do you ever have trouble parking?

Do you ever kind of struggle with it in the supermarket?

It doesn't take up full whole spaces in Sainsbury's in this to be honest and I tell the children

they don't clean their bedrooms, I'll pick them up from school in it.

Which way, left or right?

Left.

Is this the threat then?

This is the threat.

I used to have a Camaro SS and a Z28 and I made the threat and came good on it, picked

her up from school, from my teenage daughter and she, well first of all she went to the

wrong side of the car which was obviously embarrassing, she went back round to the right

side of the car and she literally sat down, huddled up and slid into the footwell.

Mum just pick us up in something normal.

Embarrassing mum.

It's like if you don't clean your bathroom I'm putting journey on full blast as well

when I hit you up if you want.

Now I don't think this is much bigger than a Range Rover is it?

I mean in terms of size it feels big but it's kind of like not dissimilar to a standard

Range Rover.

There's nothing scary about driving these once you're in them.

I know outside looking at them they look terrifyingly large but now you're in it, look at these

windy lanes.

These are very small lanes aren't they?

As long as you're clinging to the side it's alright.

Just a sharp left here, we go up here.

What I've noticed as well is when you look in the rear view mirror you get to see the

fins.

I can see the fins out the back and actually they are a long way away.

What's your first impressions?

I love it.

Do you?

Absolutely love it.

You know I instantly feel at home in it.

It's easy to drive, it just has that classic American relaxed feel to it.

You're not in a hurry here are you?

You just kind of enjoy yourself from cruising around.

You could go all day in this.

Oh absolutely.

From a sales point of view, because I am essentially just a used car sales person aren't I?

The trick with these cars is to get people in them because if you drive it you'll want

it.

If you've had them before and you know what they're like, fine.

If it's your first adventure with American classics, the best way for me to sell these

cars is to invite people to come and drive them.

Yeah I think it's amazing.

I think whoever buys this is going to be very lucky.

And also, find another one, or else you're going to get one of these in this country.

You're just not.

Of course here comes the challenge.

This is the reverse.

This is a big car to reverse.

You automatically do the elbow over the back seat, that sort of relaxed viewing stance.

But actually the fins, it's almost like a gun sight, you can point it roughly where

the fins are.

Well you know where the corners are.

Yeah absolutely.

That is a lovely, lovely car.

Glad you enjoyed it.

It would have been awful if you'd hated driving it wouldn't it?

You couldn't fail to like this if you've got petrol in your veins.

This is the car for you isn't it?

Tremendous.

Isn't it wonderful?

Yeah that's lovely, I love it.

Thank you very much.

I'm really glad you enjoyed it.

So shall I do the invoice now then?

I'm virtually reaching for my cheque book.

Wait till Matt finds out.

I managed to sell you a Cadillac while you were here.

It's quite different to a Stag but quite similar in certain ways.

Big floaty V8.

Without the reliability issues.

Yeah true.

I didn't buy it by the way but honestly I don't really have the room.

I absolutely loved it.

It didn't really feel that big.

It sort of shrinks around you until you glimpse the fins miles away in the rear view mirror.

Anyway a great car and a great drive.

Thanks to Sam for talking to us.

She's got a podcast of her own so check that out plus have a look on the tyre kicker's

Instagram page for pictures of the Caddy and also Sam's garage.

I grew up in the motor trade and I'm obviously growing old in the motor trade so as I'm semi-retiring

from dealing the business has been going since the 60s.

I took over from my dad and I just felt really strongly that before I shut the doors I want

to make sure that all these memories, you know as a car dealer's kid, when we're gone

they're gone.

So we are kind of going back down memory lane, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and we're talking

to some of the old characters and the dealer's wives who are much forgotten I would say.

Do listen to that episode for a rare insight into what went on behind the scenes.

But yeah I just want to record all these memories, I don't want them to go and I think when our

generation car dealers' kids have gone they're going to be gone forever and I think the stories

are worth telling and I think they're worth preserving.

So Sam's Wheels and Deals podcast can be found on your normal podcast provider.

I hope you've enjoyed this Trade Talks bonus episode.

Thanks to Sam for the invite and also the Cadillac experience.

A normal tyre kicker show with Matt is back next time.

So see you then.

Goodbye.

Bye.

The Real Truth About Dealing Classic Cars - Bonus Tyrekickers Trade Talks!

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