They Boulder Rocks! Subaru Goes Electric and More from NYIAS | Ep. 116

Welcome back to the AutoGuide Show. We have a great episode for you this week. It's the

New York Auto Show and we bring you all of the latest reveals. I'm Greg McGlory and our

road test editor Kyle Patrick joins me in just a minute to break down all of the big

news from New York. Mike Schlay then joins me for his latest gear test. In the AutoGuide

garage, Mike test drives the Volkswagen Golf R and I get behind the wheel of the Subaru

Outback Wilderness. We close things out with the mailbag where we wonder what brand is

going to make it off-roader next. We'll be right back after this.

All right, Kyle now joins me from New York. If you're watching on YouTube, you've got

a great view of the city skyline from high atop his hotel. It's kind of a cloudy day

there. We're recording this on Thursday, the day after press days. It was a big show.

So Kyle, welcome. Hope you're feeling somewhat recovered from the circus that is the press

day in New York. I've done it many times. It's pretty exhausting. But let's talk about

it. Why don't we tee things up with the Hyundai Boulder concept? I did not see this coming.

I think it's kind of awesome, but you got to see it in person. So let's start there.

All right. Well, absolutely. First, I just want to say it's so nice to have an actual

surprise at an auto show. I feel like, especially when you work in the industry, you might get

a little jaded about, well, I know what's coming or I've got the info ahead of time

because I need to get my story out. And this was, no, no one knew anything about it except

we had suspicions about this name based on Hyundai's teaser earlier this week. And what

came out is a Wrangler and Bronco competitor. And the fascinating thing here, the old bait

and switch is that Hyundai is using this as a teaser for a vehicle that probably won't

even be the same, excuse me, probably won't even be the same shape. The big news is Hyundai

is getting into the body on frame market. We saw this decades ago with the Japanese brands,

notably Toyota and Nissan, when they started going after the vehicle that powers America,

right, pickup trucks. And so Hyundai wants to get in on that. And they're doing it in a way

that I think makes sense where, you know, you show these concepts first, you build excitement

for something. And while we know that they are going to be bringing a midsize pickup,

probably Ranger is ish sized, you want to make sure you use that platform for multiple things,

right? You don't want to have a platform sitting around for one model. This, this is

fascinating. It kind of looks like the old Bronco concept from 20 years ago. But it's huge. I

don't think the images really showcase the size of this thing. It's not a volume that we expect

from Hyundai, right? And it's a very different design language, but you can still see current bits

of Hyundai to it. I love the huge fenders. I love the little windows, just a top the side windows,

those safari style ones. It looks cool. 37 inch wheels, tires wrapped in 18 inch wheels,

to your point, a ton of ground clearance. Don't sleep on the interior too. It's I think it's

actually a pretty cool looking cabin. I think they did a really nice job with it. Yeah, I think

Hyundai is understanding and responding to this, this turn from screens. And we're getting an

interior that at least at first glance is very techie, but also looks like, you know, it's one

you actually want to touch and play with very physical. And I think that is the sort of thing

you want from a vehicle like this, right? I want physical controls. I want to be able to actually

touch what this vehicle is capable of. I think Hyundai has shown an aptitude for kind of knowing

where the market goes. They really have a good head on their shoulders. And I think going after

an off road type vehicle is sort of an entree into the body on frame pickup truck segment,

I think is a smart move. They've been, they seem to like skate where the puck is going next. They

know where the ball is going to go, pick your cliche. And, you know, they did this with the

Genesis sedan, which became a Genesis brand in its own. And they basically were able to stand up

a premium luxury brand with no history and do it credibly. And then I think even more credibly,

a few years later, they brought out the Palisade. They had never done an SUV of that size at any

point. Maybe we were all a little skeptical. They rolled out the Palisade. It won all these SUVs of

the year awards. It's an outstanding SUV. And, you know, really, I think in some ways even more

than the Genesis brand helped position Hyundai as a premium brand because the Palisade is a

premium SUV. And then they got into electrics. So what's the next thing you're going to do?

Okay. Off-road. That's where everybody, you know, from the Honda Trail Sport models to Subaru

Wilderness models. I drove the Outback Wilderness. We'll talk about that in a little bit here.

Obviously Jeep, Bronco, you name it. This is what people seem to want. So I think this is,

I mean, this is a borderline moonshot for Hyundai. So I think we'll see if they can pull it off.

The one thing that I think could trip them up is there's been a pretty notable, like,

recall on some of the Palisade models for the third row issue. To me, that's what would most

likely stand in the way of Hyundai's sort of off-road success is some sort of, like, you know,

stubbing your toe with a recall or making something that's just too out there. Because we have seen,

you know, domestic buyers are very willing to consider off-road brands from anywhere. You know,

whether it's a new one like Rivian or Scout, obviously Toyota with the Land Cruiser, the

four-rotor, those are in, like, the catalog, the most iconic off-roaders. So unlike, I think,

with trucks where people are, you know, kind of die to the wall, I think there's room to run here

for Hyundai to get into it. They said the truck is going to come first. And I haven't even really

confirmed what might become of this bolder concept. But I got to believe maybe you do the

truck, then you come out with, like, an off-road-type thing as a bit of a halo for your off-road catalog.

Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, to your point about where this goes, Hyundai, while obviously

they're not saying this is coming to production in this form, everyone I talk to is very insistent

that, you know, this matters. This isn't just a concept to throw out there for the sake of it.

This is showcasing a direction. And so we'll see. I mean, the end of the decade is not actually that

far away now. So we'll get a better idea of this pretty soon. And yeah, I'm excited about it.

All right. I think in New York, we always see a lot of electrics and sort of at both ends of the

spectrum. We had the large three-row from Subaru and then the smaller kind of sporty thing from Kia.

But why don't we start with the EV3 first? I think that's really an attractive-looking vehicle.

I know you got really up close with it. What do we need to know about this one?

Well, I think, you know, we've said this seems to be a theme at AutoGuide this year. And I mean,

the broader market is, you know, right when EVs are sort of seeing their shine dulled,

we're now getting a ton of affordable ones. And the EV3 looks like another great option.

It's roughly the size of a bolt or a leaf, but a little more spacious. And it has been on sale

for a little over a year in other parts of the world where it's already racked up World Car of

the Year. And I think the important thing here is, you know, it's ticking all those boxes.

The Korean brands in general have a really good idea of, like you said, knowing where to go in

the market. And the EV3 is a big box. That's the advantage, right? Is the bolt is very appealing

and very affordable, but it's at this point a decade old. The leaf now has this new stylish

shape, but that's not as practical. And this just looks like something that's, you know,

roughly selto-sized and happens to be electric. It has what I think is a really good interpretation

of Kia's current design language. The horsepower and torque and range are all in the right

areas. You're looking at about 300 miles or 200 horsepower with the front drive model.

There will be an all-wheel drive one, which I think is another advantage because, look,

all-wheel drive has had the most successful marketing campaign in decades. Some people just

think they need it. And so you can't get that on the leaf or the bolt. This gives you that option

for added capability and an extra 100 horsepower, which I'm sure people won't, you know, be bothered

by. That makes this a really appealing package. And the rest of the interior is just, it's modern

Kia. It's stylish. It's easy to use. I think this is going to be an important player, especially

if people, if North America starts reconsidering the EV in general.

I think this is another good segment for, we were talking about Hyundai. It's simply brand

here Kia, the broader Hyundai Motorco, just sort of, you know, conglomerate. I think this is a great

segment for Kia to play in. You know, I think people will look to smaller vehicles, electrics,

sort of as an entryway to certain segments. This thing looks great. I think it's like a baby

telluride. I've read a lot of headlines that kind of describe it as such. It's a good look at little

vehicle. So power, you know, is very power and range. It all appears to be there, you know,

final numbers, pending and all that, but it all appears to be there. So let's, let's go up to

the opposite end of the segment, which is a three row vehicle, the getaway from Subaru. I think

Subaru is putting some pretty fun names out there. We had the Uncharted. Now we've got the getaway.

This is a three row electric SUV. Subaru has a habit of making big news in New York.

I suppose this is for the buyer who was thinking of the Ascent and then said,

I think I want to go electric, which again, back to Hyundai and Kia, they've had a nice strategy

with that, with their large three rows. That's what the getaway would kind of match up against is

the EV9 and the Ioniq 9. I've driven both of them. They're excellent vehicles.

So what do you think of the Subaru? So I, as a gaming nerd, I just want to point out,

I think it's really funny that they now have two EVs that are named after old PlayStation games.

So I was at the Lodge for the Highlander earlier this year, and this is a very familiar vehicle.

If anyone lines up photos of both of them, they'll see. But the fascinating thing to me, and I feel

like I'm not alone on this one based on talking to other journalists here, is I think the Subaru

is the better looking model. I think it just looks a little more finished. Subaru has evolved this

EV face that it has currently on all of its EVs. And so it's thinner headlights. And I think it's

a pretty handsome vehicle. There's also a very excellent dark, dark black cherry kind of paint

that was on the stage that looked good. Very hard to photograph at a show. So you'll see the white

version of the car on AutoGuide if you go and read the whole story on it. But I just find it

kind of fascinating that Toyota and Subaru are just, you know, shotgunning the EV segments of just,

well, you want a small one here, medium, large, we both have them. And you just have so many choices.

And I think that was kind of the appeal of EVs years ago, right, is this idea that you can get a

functionally similar car, but just different sizes. And it's pretty easy for automakers to

adjust that. 420 horsepower is a lot in a family hauler. That is the most powerful Subaru ever.

It has the same battery size as the Highlander. So I do wonder how much range is going to be

impacted by that added power. But I just, I find it fascinating that, you know, these are companies

that are sharing a platform. Ostensibly, Toyota has been leading the development. This is an ETNGA

platform. Toyota's model has 90 horsepower less, 82. I find that really interesting. So yeah,

with you mentioned the ascent, which is getting on a bit, I'm sure this isn't going to be cheaper

than an ascent. But the, what is it called, the trail seeker, isn't actually that much more than

an equivalent outback these days. And so I think Toyota and Subaru are getting really close to

price parity for EVs. And that makes this a really appealing package. All right, you're listing the

AutoGuide show. We're going to take a break and be right back after this. All right, we are still

talking New York with Kyle. Let's transition over to the Celtos. We're just kind of going from large

to small vehicles, just like boomeranging across the spectrum here. Celtos is a hugely important

vehicle for Kia. They've kind of played around with the design and since they launched it,

some of the different, the packaging, the trims. And I think they've landed in a pretty good place

with this one. This, you know, no real surprise here. They sort of stayed with the playbook that's

given them some success. What was the mood down the floor for the Celtos?

The Celtos constantly had people around it. Like you said, it makes sense. It's an important vehicle

for Kia and the Celtos has quietly racked up quite a following in its class. That is a very

competitive segment, right? We have the Crosstrek, we have the Honda HRV, the Toyota Corolla Cross,

the Honda Kona. All of them are vying for top sales position. And I know that's the case in

any segment, but it's pretty close here, which I think is fascinating, right? People buying smaller

SUVs don't tend to be quite so brand loyal. They want to go for what works best for their needs

at the time, what they need for a small family or a growing family. And the Celtos, I mean,

we did a mega comparison two years ago. The current Celtos one, it's a really strong package in terms

of value and features and space. It's one of the most spacious options. This one kind of leans

into those strengths. It's slightly larger. It looks much bigger because the styling is very

baby telluride, but it's hugely spacious inside. The quality inside has gone up a little. It's not

Mazda levels of good, but it's definitely in the top segment of the class. And the powertrains

are carryover, which I think is actually maybe the biggest disappointment. It's a necessary evil,

but we wanted more. And Kia teased that there is a hybrid coming. A few months after this launches

in the summer, there will be a hybrid model. But unfortunately, we know almost nothing about it.

We know that it will be an electric all wheel drive setup, which is actually unique amongst the

Korean brands. So it's more like Toyota, where you're going to have a separate electric motor on

the rear axle that only powers it when you need. So efficiency should go up versus Kia's traditional

hybrids, but capability does go down because you're not having a physical connection there.

I think overall, that doesn't matter for this segment. I think people buying a small SUV

prioritize fuel economy over outright capability. Yeah, I would agree with you. I think that's a

pretty fair position to carve out. And we'll, I mean, I guess we'll see. I mean, the Celtos has been

sort of in an anchor in a good way at the bottom of the Kia lineup for a while now.

And I think it's getting some kind of brand recognition. Speaking of brand recognition,

the Chrysler Pacifica, I think that's been, yeah, right. This sort of debuts the new face of Chrysler,

which from the pictures, I liked it. Long overdue for a refresh for the very long in the

tooth Chrysler Pacifica. The LX trim kind of subside for the Voyager is the base level trim.

So just kind of rearranging things a little bit there. It, you know, I think it looks pretty

good. It still definitely looks like a Chrysler Pacifica. Kind of subtle refreshes here.

Basically some new trims. It's, you know, some nicer interior. Under the hood, you get that 3.6

liter PetaStar V6. You're going to get 287 horsepower. Yeah, I mean, it's been around for a long time,

but it's also, I think in the mid-evan segment, you don't have to have breaking, cutting edge

technology in every single element. They needed to do this. I think it makes it a little more

competitive. And I think it's, it's a, I wrote this at a column last week about how Chrysler

should bring back like a hemi, you know, hemi-powered 300 or something. And one of the reasons I think

they should do that is because they need some splash, some sizzle. They've got things like the

Pacifica. Other brands don't have this sort of pay-the-rent sort of vehicle. Chrysler does.

This could kind of keep them in business. They currently sell, interesting fact,

Chrysler outsells Dodge. When's the last time you heard about a Chrysler compared to everything

we hear about Dodge? And they're actually not that far behind a lot of other pretty well-known

brands like Acura. And that's all based on the Pacifica, basically. Although funny little trivia,

they sold like 12 or 15, 300s last year. They must have just been at the back of a dealer

a lot somewhere. So that is the 300 pretty important vehicle built in Canada. What do you,

what do you think the Pacifica? I think it's one of those situations where a car gets a

facelift that does not go with the rest of the shape. And that's the feeling I'm getting. This

is a very futuristic facelift, but the rest of the body is from 2017. So it's, I think it weirdly

works worse in person. I think photos actually kind of play it up. It's fine. I don't think people

are going to turn away from it. I remember when the Camaro got that unfortunate facelift years back

and then immediately Chevy had to give it an emergency facelift a year later. I don't think

that's going to happen here. I think, like you said, people buying minivans are pretty practical

people. They don't need the newest, hottest, whatever. They want something that works. And

this definitely works. I just, I feel like we're on the verge of a resurgence in minivan shopping.

And so my concern here is that long-term the Pacifica doesn't have new stuff to really compete

with other brands. I mean, we see that Kia and Toyota have hybrids. Chrysler got rid of the plug

in hybrid with this. So it's just the Pentastar. We don't even see the new turbo four-cylinder,

the Hurricane. So I just, I think it's fine, but it does feel like Chrysler just knows that it has

kind of a safe bet here. And so it's doing the bare minimum it needs to go a few more years.

It, I think that's, this isn't, this is, it's a refresh like, I don't know, once a decade mid-cycler

refresh. It's supposed to happen a little more often than that. It does have a bit of a, I like

the front end of the new face of Chrysler, but I see your point. It looks like this ultra-modern

thing like that Audi or somebody would do. It looks good. And then you've got this minivan that

we've all been staring at for a decade. So yeah, it does have kind of a Frankenstein,

transformer kind of vibe. So we'll see how it maybe looks on the road. And then, yeah,

they kind of need to get their act together with, I mean, you laid out a pretty good plan right there

of get that turbo four in there, figure out if Stellantis can still credibly make hybrids and

go from there. But we have not talked about the Volkswagen Atlas, which is another vehicle that

I think was kind of in need of definitely an update. I remember going on the prototype drive

outside of the factory in Chattanooga, oh, I don't know, 10 years ago. And they haven't done a heck

of a lot since to really get the Atlas to a competitive spot. And it's a super competitive

segment. This isn't one where you could be like, we'll just keep rolling the ball out and hoping

people come our way, because they stood up like a name that had not existed before. So there's no

reason for people to either try you or stay with you. You know, anybody you're getting is because

you did something right the first time. But what have you done for me today? And that's at least

what they're trying to do here. So how are we feeling about Atlas? Or is it just a shrug?

I, you know, it's, it's funny. I just want to point out, I am trying to make big one happen.

Because it looks like a Tiguan just bigger. So, you know, anyone listening, if you want to just

start calling it that, I would love that. I think the fascinating thing, I kind of agree with you

that not a whole lot happened with the Atlas in a decade. And with a new brand, a new nameplate,

you need to do that. On the flip side, this is a very important model for VW, because the Atlas

and Atlas Cross Sport account for over 30% of their sales in North America. So it has to do well,

but it's also not done a whole lot over the last few years. And so the smart play here was

VW kind of saw where the market is going. When the Atlas came out a decade ago, it was a less

expensive, big, spacious, but not an especially refined three row, because people didn't want the

Tuareg. It didn't work. Now we see things like the Palisade, we see the CX90 from Mazda. We see a

much more upmarket family hauler. And so that's where the Atlas is gone. The interior is so much

more upmarket now. And I think VW is really rediscovering that confidence of being the only

non-premium German brand. They have some leeway to move more upmarket. People like that. There's

real wood. It's a lot like the Tiguan. And I think that's great. It's a very refined, minimalist,

classy cabin. And of course, it's still on the same platform. So it's huge inside. It has one of the

third row seats back there. So I think it's a very smart move. The one question mark I have about

the Atlas is that it uses the same two-liter turbo four-cylinder as before. It has a little bit more

horsepower. VW says it's going to be slightly better on gas, but you know that's not going to be a huge

change. And so I do wonder if people are filling this Atlas with people and then also towing something

at the back. Is that two-liter really going to be enough? All right. That's a great question.

And we've left out a few of the reveals here that you can head to the site to check out the

Forrester Hybrid. There's a Durango Special Edition, Genesis Graphite, but just kind of close

things out with Kyle, who is going to board his flight shortly as we headed to the holiday weekend.

So we want to definitely get you out of here to get you to LaGuardia, I think, for the situation

that always is. What was the vibe at the auto show? We've been talking about what's next for

auto shows. Are they still good, useful things for automakers? What was the vibe at this one?

It's an interesting blend where in some ways the New York show now feels like a regional auto show

in the sense that it doesn't have a huge footprint. As journalists, we're not hiking from one room to

the next and taking forever to go to the next presentation, which in my mind is a win. But

in terms of New Metal, it was a lot. There's a lot to talk about at this show. And I think New York

has kind of repositioned itself as arguably the biggest show in the US. LA is a big show at the

end of the year, and we see a lot of brand new debuts that will show the next calendar year.

But in terms of actual New Metal that really matters to buyers, I think it's New York. And so,

yeah, I think people are excited. I think there's a renewed interest in auto shows,

and that will transfer over to it being good for the public too. Auto shows are always a great way

to figure out what might be in your driveway next year. All right, sounds good. Well, Kyle,

safe travels, and we'll catch up with you soon. We'll be right back after this.

Okay, joining me now is Mike Schley to talk about his latest gear test. We're talking

Chemical Guys Wheel Cleaner. There's nothing I like more on my car than clean wheels. How does

this stuff work? So it's called the Insight Foaming Color Changing Wheel Cleaner. This is from a

replace. Mine was more of an aerosol can style foaming, whereas the other one's just a spray

on. They may still have both. Same idea though. What happens is, as you said, having clean wheels

is great. Cleaning wheels is not great. If you spray this foam on the wheel, it goes on just

regular like sort of a whitish foam. But then as it works and dissolves the dirt, it changes colors.

And when it becomes sort of a dark, bluey purple, I'd say it's more of a purplish color,

then you know it's time to rinse it off. And the idea is you spray it on, you let it work,

and then you spray it off. And if you have dust, light mud, surface dirt, it works great. It washes

it off. But as you know, most wheels, they get more than that. They get road tire, they get tons

of brake dust, they get grime. And that's not going to come off even with this, even though it says

it's scrub free. But what I did find is if I spray it on, and have a hard bristle plastic brush,

so nothing that's going to scratch the tire, but it's strong, and I scrubbed the tire, I use it on

a Crosstrek five star two tone wheel. I sprayed it on, scrubbed it, and then I left it for the

still the roughly 15 seconds for it to turn dark purple and rinse it off tire was spotless.

So as I found with almost any tire cleaner in the world, I've never found one. And I don't think

there is one where it's truly spray on, let it soak spray off and all the dirt comes off. It's

just not gonna, if it's that strong that it can just eat the dirt is probably gonna eat your paint.

So yes, you need a little bit of scrubbing, but it works very well. And the color changing is nice

because sometimes you don't know if it's on long enough, or if it's even working. So I would spray

a tire, scrub it and move to the next tire and spray and scrub it. And then that first tire is

like, Oh, it's a wheel. Sorry. It's a dark purple time to rinse it off and then move on. So yeah,

it works as intended. And the color changing thing, it's, it's half gimmick, but it's nice too,

because it's, I don't know, it just makes you feel like you're doing more when you see it changing

color. And you're like, Oh, yeah, it must be working. And it, like I said, you don't mistake

if you scrubbed a tire or wheel cleaner not because one is going to be purple. So yeah,

it's a good system. And it smells nice. That's always a plus in my book.

Sounds like, I mean, it sounds like a pretty, almost fun product to use, very self satisfying

when your wheels get a little bit cleaner and the, the color changes. Does it matter the type of

wheels? Or does it work on all types of wheels? Yeah, I mean, it works on all types of wheels

that you could use a chemical cleaner on. Obviously, as any cleaning product, you know,

using a small area just to be safe. If it's a modern wheel, it's going to be able to do it.

Maybe some older wheels that might eat into paint or, or some steel, but all modern wheels are

designed and painted and treated that they can handle this sort of thing. If the rule of thumb,

I think with any household cleaning product that you're using on a vehicle is designed for a car,

is if your car can go on a car wash, it's going to be able to use these products. But if you're

not taking it there and you're leery of things, you need to use specially

pH balance controlled, whatever, then yeah, maybe this won't be it. Alrighty,

sounds pretty good. I can't wait to try some of this stuff this summer. My 06 charger is sorely

in need of a bath after a long winter. But speaking of cars, we will be right back after this where

we will go inside the AutoGuide Garage. All right, let's step inside the AutoGuide Garage,

where I have been driving the Subaru Outback Wilderness and Mike has been driving the Volkswagen

Golf R, both kind of fun vehicles here. I will chip it over to you, see what I did there. Let's

talk about the Golf R. I like that you said both are fun cars because the Outback is a car. Although

it looks like an SUV, it is a car. But I'll let you get on about that. I'm actually driving one

next week again, so it's going to be a lot of Outback Wilderness heavy coming in the next little

while. It's almost like it's a super important vehicle for Subaru or something. But onto the

Golf. So yeah, the Golf R, it's such an interesting vehicle that the Golf's dead. And if you want the

sporty version of the Golf, it's not called a Golf, it's a GTI. But if you want the ridiculously

sporty version, it's a Golf again. And it's the R. And I haven't driven the R since the refresh,

going back a couple years. Always been a fan of the vehicle. The one I have is specced out really

nice. It's got the cloth seats with the plaid inserts. So it's not fully loaded. So you're

really just getting what you want. But it still has nice options like heated seats and heated

steering wheel and whatnot. But obviously it's the drivetrain that turbocharged four cylinder

all wheel drive over 300 horsepower. It's such a monster. But what Volkswagen's always done,

basically with every GTI and Golf R since the beginning of the model line is when you drive it

in comfort mode as a regular car and as most know it only comes with a dual clutch transmission,

no more manual. It drives just like a turbo Golf. I mean, maybe that's a little too

pedestrian. Like maybe it drives like a GTI, but it just drives like a regular car. You can put a

family in it, put in three friends with you and just drive around. And when you leave from a stop,

there's always an initial sort of launch no matter how smooth you try to be. And that's

because the dual clutch has to engage and that engine is so torquey and powerful. It's like,

okay, here we go. It takes a while to kind of get used to that. I prefer compared to what a lot of

dual clutch transmissions do where it kind of engages, but the engine is not quite powerful

enough. And you get that almost like a manual transmission sort of bouncy jerkiness. This is

just like you go. But then when you want to go and you put it into sport or race mode,

it comes alive. And the suspension and drive feel doesn't change too much in that sense,

but throw it into a corner with that active differential. And I mean, it's an electronically

controlled active differential, but it works so well, you can just pin the accelerator on an

on ramp and it just wants to rotate itself. Even though mine's on winter tires right now,

it grips so well and it's only 235 wide tires, like Volkswagen doesn't over tire their cars.

They're 19s 235 so many vehicles at this level. I mean, look at the Civic Type R there's like

265s and the GR Corolla's got big tires and the WRX even has wider tires, but Volkswagen just

has a good platform and chassis and the engine can be noisy. Even if you drive it normally,

it gives you a little noise but nothing annoying. But then when you really get on it and get the

RPMs, it really comes to life. It's just such a Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde type car and it always

has been and that's why I think I love the Golf R is it's it's a sophisticated fun car. I wouldn't

say it makes me grin as much as a GR Corolla when really ripping on it or like an old STI,

but I also don't have to live daily with all of the trade-offs those two cars have of, you know,

teeny interiors and cheap plastics and, you know, hearing every mechanical bit groaning and clanking

and whatnot when I want to just go to Walmart. So yeah, it's and the price, I mean, it's a lot

for golf but it's not a lot for the performance you get. Like I look at people around there with

similar power to weight all-wheel drive Audi's and BMW's and I think this is more affordable and I

still quite like it in here and it's smaller. That's the other thing. It's so easy to park this

little thing yet it's a box so four adults fit in it. So yeah, it's it is what it's always been

is just a little better but it hasn't lost that fun. I think right now it's it's good that Volkswagen

still has something like this that stays kind of true to their roots in their lineup. You know,

Kyle was in New York this week looking at the new Atlas which, hey, that's where they have to be but

that maybe isn't the type of vehicle that is most closely associated with, you know, Volkswagen's

Ethos. So it's fun, sprightly things like this. It goes back to who they are and it's been a minute

since I've driven a Golf R. You've kind of sold me on it here. I maybe want to try to get in one

here. Maybe this summer as the weather gets a little better although with all-wheel drive,

hey, I'd be okay with it. I really like how this thing looks too. I was looking at some of the

different pictures inside and out. What kind of seats did yours have, if you remember?

So like I said, they're the gray cloth seats but with the blue plaid inserts. It's the black.

Yeah, it's called the black so the exterior is really dark down. I will say though as much as

I've gone on about how much I like the Golf R. My opinions change a little or I'm leading a little

more to the R than I used to but I still say if it's my money and it's my purchase, I'm not going

to get the R. I'll get the GTI. The GTI is like so close to it in terms of usable daily performance.

There's almost no difference unless it's like snowing. That's the only the difference because

the all-wheel drive but it's not like the Golf has this permanent hooked up all-wheel drive. It's

more of a reactionary. I mean you can make it always engage but it's still always going to be

front-wheel drive bias but the GTI now with the power bump, it's so good and I can save so much

money and still have like I said nine tenths of the fun, nine to tenths of the year. It's just

those couple real snowy days that'll be like oh I wish I had the R but yeah it's not a testament

to the Golf R not being great. It's just how good the GTI is but it's nice to have the option as

you said. There's no Golf yet Volkswagen still offers you two totally different flavors of

sporty Golf which is cool. All right so let's talk about flavors. Flavors of the Outback.

I am in the 2026 Subaru Outback in the wilderness. This has the kind of the blue paint that you see

in all the press shots. I've been driving it driving it this week and I'm enjoying it. It's

my first taste of the new updated Outback. It was raining pretty hard this morning. It's kind of a

nasty morning temperatures in the upper 30s so just above freezing so a good day to really be

driving an Outback. The wilderness is way more than you need even for this. I mean this would be

up for off-roading and snow and all that good stuff. As a refresher the wilderness kind of sits

in the middle but towards the top end of the Outback lineup. A basic model comes in at about 35.

The wilderness starts at about 45 and then you get a little farther up into the limited XT or

touring XT. The wilderness of course the big thing here is it gives you all that wilderness type

looks and things like that. It's a little bit lifted. You get the 2.4 liter turbocharged engine

that's the four-cylinder boxer so obviously you get sort of the up-level engine in this version.

It looks awesome. Black wheels again the blue paint. It's got all the wilderness sort of

kind of yellowy gold trims and accents and all that stuff inside and out. It's a pretty nice

interior. Again this is my first time now in the new Outback. I like the driver display right in

front of you. It's colorful. It's easy to read. Subaru's infotainment system is fine. I actually

kind of used this cliche. I wish I had a few more knobs and buttons just because when you're

getting acclimated with a new vehicle it's a little challenging just to do some basic things

and you've probably seen that meme like I have where it's like three knobs for the HVAC like

come on car companies just go back to that but that's not a Subaru problem. That's like an

industry problem. At least they went back to buttons for the HVAC.

That is true. That's true. Yeah so it's on the right path I guess. But again dark interior pretty

nice setup and then just to kind of really unpack this and I know you've got a lot of

thoughts on Subaru too. I'd like to hear what you think. This time last year I drove like the

outgoing Outback which still had more of a car-like vibe to it and this one looking at it.

It's boxy. It's squared off. They're going for it. They call it I believe a mid-sized SUV

and it's got that square roof blocky front end. I know we've made a couple of like transformer

references on this show. This could play a Decepticon I think pretty well especially in this

color scheme even with the big grille that says Subaru on it. It reminds me almost of like a Ford

F series or something. I'd say it drives like a crossover SUV type thing. It doesn't really feel

like a car in any sense anymore. All that being said I like it. I like it so far. I think it's

a pretty good easy vehicle to see out of. Honestly it reminds me a lot of a Forester. Just the

aesthetics and the general appearance. It doesn't give you that kind of deep wagon vibe that the

Outback used to give you and I've been driving Outback since 2008 as far as being in the press

fleet. When I was at Auto Week we had a long-term one. I took it to Chicago once and just it was

a little bit different animal. All that being said this thing stands out. I think it's kind of what

people want right now. I don't think there's too many people that are looking for some

wagon thing that like is automotive journalists in our head. We think it should be and on its own

merits. It's a very nice vehicle. I think it's going to be good for family use. It's certainly big

and I mean change is inevitable. It might be good. I generally like this new Outback.

Yes in the US it's interesting because it's the cheapest way to get the turbo,

the wilderness, but you do have to deal with the exterior whether you like it or not. Like I said

it has this like built-in push bar in the front with the Subaru that's very pickup truck like

then the Outback in the back but the extra ground clearance like nine and a half inches is massive.

That's more than a lot of off-road SUVs and on bad roads it really swallows them up and the engines

numbers are always deceiving because they say all 260 doesn't look like much but this also weighs

under 4,000 pounds and almost every vehicle it's competing against is five to eight hundred pounds

heavier so you don't need as much power if you're carrying around less weight and that's because

it still is the last generation Outback underneath. Nothing's changed. They've added some bracing here

in there and just put on this big boxy body so yeah I still think it's one of my favorite

Subarus for sure and in this segment I quite like it. It's just easy to drive and I don't mind

that it's gone bigger and boxier because even the last couple gens as though they had a wagon

feel in the sense of the the long roof and the way to put cargo in it didn't drive like

the Legacy or the WX so this one hasn't really it's not much different. Yeah no I think they've

done a good job and I think they'll sell just as many if not more because it does have more of a

SUV look and the wilderness from a money and drive wise is the sweet spot still you just gotta

not despise the look of the exterior. I think this is one where time will probably prove them

right like if you look at the Hyundai Santa Fe they took a really good selling fairly bland it's

just sort of that kind of 2020s curvy crossover it could be it could be a forward it could be

an Acura you don't really know from a distance type of vibe they took a risk made it like a boxy

type thing and people seem to really like it it's more polarizing but I think net net they

have a win and I think that's how it's going to work here with the Outback. Mine comes in close

to $50,000 because it has a $4,000 option package which gives you the multimedia system the power

moonroof black nappa leather with the copper stitching which is actually very handsome and

eight-way power front passenger seat so it gives you some stuff I actually probably would go with

this I often am somebody who when I drive press cars I'm like no I don't need that extra add-on

but there's some good stuff here that I think makes your ride a little bit better I would put this

in the middle to upper part of the segment too just to kind of bring things together here I think

I still like the passport trail sport if I'm looking for a you know SUV with like off-roady

vibes or maybe just try to get like a lower trim four-runner or something if that's what I was

really going to do and in that sense I feel like the Outback maybe has lost a little bit of its

identity but it also maybe gets cross-shopped with the Forester a little bit more I don't know

we'll see but still a strong competitor in the segment I don't think it's number one looking

at some of our colleagues they appear to have the same sort of ranking order good grades but

things like the Honda and other things even like the the Land Cruiser seem to come out ahead of it

but generally generally I like the solid vehicle and I you know I'm one thing I've been trying to

do here for the show for listeners you might find this interesting you might not is drive my vehicle

review of the week to the podcast so I'm like getting out of the car with all these thoughts in

my head and that I just I tell them directly to you so I can't wait to spend more time on it

it's a great thing you just brought up it's almost like you're leading into

what we're doing next week so next week we have a mid-size SUV off-road bias comparison and guess

what the wilderness is there the Honda passport trail sport is there the four-runner will be there

along with some other surprise guests but one thing I'll say to what you were just saying is

the outback crushes all of them and ground clearance like it's not even close we're talking

over an inch which you may think well that's not everything but none of these are gonna go climb

Moab it's more for deep-roaded trails to get to your hiking spot or your biking spot and that's a

big deal um and price the pricing on the outback like I said you got the the fancy package which

I fully agree I wish we had that in Canada we don't um but even at 50 000 you're still talking

5 to 10 000 cheaper than all of its similarly equipped competitors which is a pretty big deal

of this price point you know you're talking 10 to 20 percent cheaper so uh I look forward to that

comparison because the outback is slightly smaller much lighter less powerful but it's also a lot

more affordable so um we do plan to do on-road because that's let's be honest where these are

going to spend most of their lives but a little bit off-road too because they are designed to do

that so um you know we'll have to wait to see how things shake out you do notice that ground

clearance like when you get out of the car this morning I had my backpack with my laptop and

this microphone and other things and I almost kind of like trip isn't quite the right word but I'm in

my like my running shoes it's raining it's yeah you notice the ground clearance so um it's it's

wild it's the wilderness uh we're going to jump into the mailbag right after this

okay heading into the mailbag we have a very apropos question with the reveal of the Hyundai

Boulder concept what brand do you guys think should be next to make an off-roader uh I think

there's a lot of different ways you can sort of approach this uh my choice actually I think is

pretty straightforward I think GMC I think we saw some concepts you know 10 15 years ago I think

they should do that Chevy maybe but Chevy's a mainstream brand you got EVs you got the Corvette

they don't have to I mean sure a K5 type thing would be cool but to me GMC with the smaller

portfolio they share a lot of dealership space with Buick and GMC Hummer which I guess is an

off-road sure but it's it's its own thing it's a six-figure semi truck that runs on electrons it's

I I think GMC should be it that would be my vote they've shown some cool concepts um was it the

crater is that the concept that just seeped into the edge of my consciousness um but yeah for me

that gets my vote what do you think Mike yeah I think GM GM I won't even go with GMC but GM in

general is the obvious choice um this is getting a maybe a little too inside baseball but it looks

like GM's big EV platforms may be not long for this world so which means Hummer's gone again

so yeah why not just bring back a Hummer like a real Hummer um base it off the Colorado you

could have a turbo that 300 plus horsepower turbo four cylinder build a straight up Wrangler Bronco

competitor why not give it a Chevy too get rid of the current Blazer I mean I don't know what

is doing for themselves wise if it's good or bad but you know make it a what a Blazer used to be

but if I can't pick GM because you stole them um I don't know there's everyone that should have one

has one except for the Koreans which it looks like maybe they're gonna do like Mazda no Nissan we

already know they're bringing one back so we we can't pick them the Germans know the only one that

would be interesting is what if Subaru went all in on an off-roader like the wilderness is like

we've talked about a pretty good I don't know where they'd get it from maybe Toyota a partnership they

can borrow a Tacoma slash four runner platform and like go all in with a two speed transfer

symmetrical wheel drive boxer like it wouldn't make any sense but it would just be cool yeah I think

I mean as we talked off at the top of the show here it sure sounds like Hyundai is going to get

into the game and I mean you just look at everybody from like Subaru with these wilderness trims to

Honda with trail sport um it seems like you got to do more and I think there's money to be made

why not try to make some of that money so yeah actually know who could do it because they're

kind of they're not lost they just don't have much going on except for one or two good products

Mitsubishi they make trucks other places bring one over here maybe that's how you can get a

foothold back in North America you have your great outliner pf which is doing great but everything

else is kind of whatever but if you suddenly brought back uh uh not even a midsize like a

little compact one of your you know retro style Dakar style um Monteros or Pajeros or something

like yeah I think that would be kind of cool I like it I think that would be a great way to

kind of put Mitsubishi back on the map in North America get people excited and uh they're a fun

brand I think that's that's a good vibe for them try to have fun so this was a fun show

thanks for hanging out Mike thanks to Kyle who will likely be boarding his flight by the time

we are now closing this uh closing this episode and that's all the time we have this week thank you

for listening if you enjoyed the show please like share and subscribe we're available on Apple

podcasts Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this was the AutoGuide show be safe out there

we'll see you next week

you

They Boulder Rocks! Subaru Goes Electric and More from NYIAS | Ep. 116

About this episode

Volkswagen Golf

Boulder Hyundai Boulder

Jeep Wrangler

recall

World Car of the Year

the leaf

three-row electric SUV

420 horsepower

Chrysler 300

Volkswagen Atlas

Volkswagen Tiguan

two-liter turbo four-cylinder

auto shows

Chemical Guys

wheel cleaner

small area just to be safe

Subaru Outback Wilderness

Volkswagen GTI

heated seats

heated steering wheel

all wheel drive

winter tires

Civic Type R

power to weight

infotainment system

HVAC

Subaru Forester

ground clearance

Hyundai Santa Fe

power moonroof

eight-way power front passenger seat

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