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Three Stars, One Kingmaker, and a Cult Born on the Road
Three Stars, One Kingmaker, and a Cult Born on the Road
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About this episode
A fascinating exploration of the origins of the Michelin brand, this episode dives deep into the history of rubber, the invention of the pneumatic tire, and how two brothers transformed a struggling rubber factory into a tire manufacturing giant. The discussion covers their pivotal role in the development of the automobile industry and the creation of the Michelin Guide, which revolutionized dining and travel. With anecdotes about early bicycles, the Paris-Bordeaux race, and the Michelin Man's quirky history, this episode is packed with engaging stories and insights into how a tire company shaped modern culture.
Topics:
history of rubber
pneumatic tires
Michelin Guide
automobile industry
Paris-Bordeaux race
Michelin Man
bicycle evolution
cultural impact of tires
restaurant ratings
advertising history
From bouncing rubber balls in the jungle to a couple of French brothers trying to keep their grandfather’s rubber shop alive, this is where things get weird. Tires that blew apart in the dust, a car called the Eclair that barely beat a horse, and a creepy stack of white tires drinking glass shards for fun. Out of all that chaos came a little red book that turned into one of the most powerful institutions in the world. This episode of Overcrest is about bicycles, busted roads, early cars, and a mascot that still looks like nightmare fuel, and how all of it accidentally reshaped the way we drive, eat, and travel.Get cool stuff and Support this show:https://www.overcrestproductions.com/driversclub
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"...an keep going. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So by the mid 19th century, it was everywhere. Hoses, boots, waterproof jack..."
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Select text to request an explanation
Hey guys, welcome to Overcrest. I'm Chris. And I'm Jake. Hello, Jake. How's it going? Hello, Chris. It's good. What have you got for us today? I have a deep dive into a history story. Just like the good old days, Chris, we're going to go back. I don't think we should call them history stories because
I was thinking of my kids. Like if I told my kids history class, that's boring. If I said Irene, I need to sit down right here. I'm going to tell you a history. Sorry, I should be like, okay, so this is a exciting, crazy tale that I'm going to tell you a history tale, a tale story, a story at the origin of something that you may know. Overcrested origin story. Yeah, yeah, okay. But that makes it sound like it's the origin.
story of us. Well, that's where the world really began anyway. Yeah, obviously that sure. I don't know. We got to come up with a better. Well, okay, I'm just going to dive right into it. Then our story starts in Claremont, Theron, a city in central France. Oh, yes, get ready. There's going to be a lot of French accents here. Oh, no. Oh, yes, so grab blue. Oh, baby.
It was 1889, Chris, two brothers, Andre and Ed Ward inherited their grandfather's struggling rubber factory. It wasn't glamorous. This isn't like, oh, blue bloods inheriting the grandfather's factory must be nice. Now, it was like a pretty small operation that wasn't doing well. And they're like, oh, great.
The little shop it turned out basically like hoses and gaskets and balls. It was like industrial odds and ends. But to really understand kind of what the brothers inherited in this entire industry, you have to take a step back. So rubber, it turns out, it's not like a modern industrial creation or modern marvels, not like plastic or bake.
No, for thousands of years, in fact, indigenous people in the Amazon tapped the latex sap of the Hivea brassianicist tree, which I'm sure is Latin that I pronounced incorrectly.
They just chew on it.
Well, yes, they did chew on it. But no, they actually were pretty industrious themselves thousands years ago. They waterproof cloth with it sealed containers, like they use it like wax and made balls for ritual games, which
rubber small balls for ritual games, wasn't it? Was it the am no, the Aztec or the Elbow game with the head with the human head that they have that's what I'm picturing here, they probably, you know, dipped it in rubber, I guess.
The Olmec Maya and Aztec civilizations all were playing with their bouncy rubble rubber centuries before Europeans that even imagined such a thing. So when samples of this.
What slow down slow down a little bit, buddy, this is a long one. So I'm excited. It's okay slow down. Okay, it's okay. So you have all these ancient civilizations. They knew about rubber. I didn't know that I thought rubber was probably more of a modern thing.
Well, it's an organic. It's an organic substance.
Correct. And when samples of this strange material reached Europe in 1700s, it caused a stir.
The English scientist Joseph Priestley noticed that a small lump of it could literally rub out pencil marks on a page and the name stack rubber.
That's where it came from. Yes, I got that's ridiculous. Literally a pencil eraser is the name of the substance.
Well, I had what did you want it to be called?
I don't know, like, let's stuff.
Are you serious right now?
Rubber. That is like a one single use. I not even like the best one. But it's like, uh, you could rub things with it.
I don't know why I was suddenly getting bored. I don't think they were making super balls and bouncing on the cobblestone roads outside of the London bridge or something.
As texts were, I guess, but, uh, okay. So anyways, here's why this does make sense.
They used it for rubbing out pencil. They use it as an eraser, because raw rubber was kind of actually useless for any industry.
Was it kind of just like gooey and like, so yes, in when it was warm, like summer heat, it just melted into a sticky goo. It was sap.
It was basically just tree sap. In the winter, it turned brittle and cracked again, just like, I don't know, pine sap.
It wasn't until a breakthrough came about vulcanization.
Yes. Okay. What is vulcanization?
39 Charles Goodyear. Yes, that good year discovered that heating rubber with sulfur made it stable, elastic, and weather resistant.
Here's the vulcanization. I think of like the, we talked about the, you know, well, you weren't here because your internet died.
But we talked about how the scientists would just start throwing materials together to see what happened.
Oh, yeah. I'm just imagining like a, a, a, a, a rubber. And well, let's try this material, shake it up. Okay. Nothing happened. Let's put some salt in there. Okay. Nothing happened.
They just start throwing mercury or, or who knows what? A gallium into these things just to see what the material would do until something would happen.
I don't know why I thought of gallium. I don't know. That's a bizarre one. That's, that's so, that's obscure. Yeah.
So, uh, Goodyear was the one that basically was able to create vulcanization, which is like the process of it, like, hardening, right?
Because, uh, pee, uh, no, not PVC. What is it?
RTV stands for room temperature vulcanizing. Did you know that? So like, RTV sealant or RTVZ, like, you know, silicone.
If you look on the bottle, it's RTV. Yep. So vulcanizing just means like, hardening.
Um, suddenly, rubber was transformed from a natural curiosity into an industrial miracle.
Chris asked me what came first. Spock came later, right?
Because he's a vulcan prosper. Yes, he's the vulcan. Is there any tie-ins?
That is not a tangent. I went down. Um, feel free to please look that up right now.
I, I will while you, you can keep going. Yeah. Uh, yeah.
So by the mid 19th century, it was everywhere. Hoses, boots, waterproof jackets, gaskets,
and eventually, even tires, like our own Nokia.
Our friends are Nokia and tires. They also use rubber. It turns out they have their latest tire.
The AS01 surpassed. It's a high performance. All season tired.
Might specifically for drivers want the most out of their cars.
I believe it still has the air amid sidewalls. Uh, for sure, the outpost does, which means
not only did they add sulfur to the rubber, they also added air amid and made it basically
bulletproof, which is amazing. Um, you know, the, the surpass is amazing because it does have
that performance that you would expect from a high performance tire, but also the grip traction
and kind of durability reliability of an all season tire won't leave you stranded if the road
or the weather gets rough. Um, I used the outposts on my cayenne. That was amazing. I used, uh,
Haka Politas on the Audi. I used the WR6 on the other Audi I had.
I know Keynes are great tires. They have a 55,000 mile warranty.
It also offers Nokia's pothole protection. If you happen to damage your tire,
we got him to pair. Nokia will replace it for free.
Beyond repair tires.com.
Beyond. So the word Vulcan comes from Roman mythology.
Okay.
What was Vulcan is the Roman god of fire volcanoes and metal working.
Oh, so yeah. So it was named Vulcan because of the Vulcan god, not because of rubber.
So it's rubber and Vulcan, it was named Vulcanization because of the, you know,
fire and volcanoes and a heating process and spock because it's a Vulcan god.
It wasn't. Spock was named Spock.
And then you have the St. Paul winter carnival Vulcans, which that's a local thing, right?
Yeah, that's just it's Roman. It's Roman mythology.
It's all it's all Roman mythology.
God goes back to gods. Got it. Okay.
Well, Chris, by the 1860s and 70s, Europe was in the middle of a love affair.
A love affair with the bicycle.
Oh, I thought you were going to say rubber.
Not yet. Not yet.
And now I'm going. I'm not going there.
Okay, it began with an awkward contraption called the Bone Shaker.
We did a whole story on Penny Farthings and Bone Shakers, very, very early on.
Very long time ago, 30 or something.
So the Bone Shaker was basically the very first bicycle.
Wooden wheels, iron tires and a ride so rough over typical cobblestone that it
lived up to its name, the Bone Shaker.
Then came the Penny Farthing, which, of course, was the old time, a big wheel in front,
an eity-bitty one in the back.
It looks ridiculous, but it was fast because of that big front wheel.
Except, yeah, until he hits some gear and then tumbled head first.
Right over, or panels.
The real turning point came in the 1880s with what was dubbed the safety bicycle.
And this is kind of your standard design, right?
So it had equal size wheels, pedals driven by a chain.
And crucially, pneumatic rubber tires.
The bicycle became a cultural revolution.
Fortenary people, it was a affordable freedom.
No horse needed.
No train ticket required.
These were not pneumatic tires you wanted.
These were just solid rubber.
I believe you were right.
You're right.
Yes.
Are you getting ahead of myself now?
No.
I don't know.
Do you see anything?
I have nothing on the screen, but you're dumb face.
Okay.
So I don't have anything else to go off of.
So I'm just, I thought those tires were just...
They may have been pneumatic, but they weren't, I'll get to it.
Okay.
Some might have been air-filled, but anyways.
Oh, look at that thing.
Yeah, there it is.
That's the safety bicycle.
There you go.
Looks safe.
All of a sudden, well, compared to a penny-farthing,
or a thousand shaker,
and Britain, France, and Germany are all around Europe,
cycling clubs, spring up everywhere in Paris,
fashionable women, they were scandalizing
plight society by trading skirts for bloomers.
So they get ride, which I think are just poofy pants.
They're poofy pants, yes.
I think bloomers is just their underwear
that they had under the dresses.
Was there bloomers?
Oh, yes.
That's why it was scandalous.
Oh, that is scandalous.
They couldn't even put their husband's pants on.
I guess.
I like this quote.
In America, Susan B. Anthony declared
the bicycle has done more to emancipate women
than anything else in the world.
Free, well, what, what, think about,
yeah, there's the bloomers as just the underwear.
It's just underwear.
So think about this.
This is why what is worth challenging society like that?
It wasn't that bikes were fun to ride.
It was freedom of travel.
It was, it was a tool.
Yeah, it was a tool.
It was worth being, because you could go much, much farther
than you could ever walk.
So it was worth it to ride around in your underwear.
That's how valuable that tool was.
Yes, you're right.
I mean, if I had to, if I had to be in my underwear
to drive my car, I would be no totally worth it,
totally worth it.
I've actually been in my underwear.
I'm sure you have.
Yes, when it's really, really hot.
I remember I was with a, with a friend,
his name was Tim Davis.
And I was in my white 9-11.
We were in Chicago, which is the worst place in the world.
It is, it was hot as hell and Chicago is hell.
So it really goes well together.
And we were just stuck on the, on what is it called?
The, not the turn pike.
What do they call it there?
The, oh, it's the sky way.
Like the Chicago sky, whatever.
Yeah, whatever.
It's really got that cool neon sign that says Chicago on it.
It looks neat.
And you think you're going to be going to a great place
and then it's Chicago.
And it's not.
And it was, it was 90,000 degrees.
And I just remember just taking my clothes off.
And eventually I was sitting there in my boxers.
And my buddy, Tim was also in his boxers.
And we're just sitting there.
The doors are open.
And we're just like legs out the door,
trying desperately to be cool.
Just in traffic.
Worth it.
Oh, worth it.
I would, to, to be able to have that freedom travel.
It looked cool.
But you were probably cooler temperature wise.
However, I was not challenging societal norms at the time.
No, well, not that we know of.
No, economically, the bicycle boom created a massive demand
for parts and ball bearings, steel tubing, chains.
Most of all, tires.
This was the first time vulcanized rubber
was being consumed at scale.
By 1890, cycling wasn't just a fad.
It was an industry worth millions.
And it was this booming market that gave the brothers,
Andre and award their opening.
The older of the two, Andre, was an engineer
who thought in terms of markets and empires.
He was a strategist, a salesman and a marketer.
The younger Edward, on the other hand, was a problem solver.
It was him in 1891 who thought up the idea
that these bikes could have tires that were both pneumatic
and removable, replaceable.
Before this, fixing a tire meant literally
ungluing the tire from the rim.
Yes, so it was a solid core tire,
basically just a tonka rubber.
So yeah.
So suddenly Edward's design writers
everywhere could not only repair a puncture in minutes,
they could also, hey, look, sell more tires,
many more tires.
The invention changed everything.
The one small factory was now booming,
known as a serious manufacturer of bicycle tires.
This is in France.
This is in France in 1891.
Don't get ahead of me, Chris.
I just want to make sure I'm going to say
I want to make sure I'm on the same page
of where we are geographically.
That's all.
I got to say it was an American.
You'd be saying Edward, because we're in France.
I can't do right away.
French.
I did it.
French, yes, we are still in France.
I'm just trying to help out the listener here.
On the tray and Edward did a spell,
not just Edward, it is E with a tilde,
D-O-U-A-R-D.
Oh, geez.
Edward sounds like something
where people would name their kids here in America now.
Oh, spell it like this.
You'll be special.
Not Ed or Eddie, it's Ed-O-A-D.
So the brother sponsored bicycle races,
plastered their name across the countryside
and became synonymous with innovation.
These are the guys like, oh yeah,
they invented the inflatable, replaceable tire.
Amazing.
But the brothers, they weren't content.
They're already looking ahead at the next industry.
If a pneumatic tire could transform the bicycle,
why not this newfangled contraption?
The wheelbarrow?
The automobile.
Oh, no, no, no, no, Chris,
not the wheelbarrow.
It's worth pausing to kind of gain a little context here
because it's 1895, right?
The automobile was hardly commonplace.
France, which was supposedly the most
car-friendly nation in Europe at the time,
had fewer than 3,000 registered vehicles.
These weren't mass-produced machines
rolling off assembly lines yet.
This was far before Henry Ford
and Detroit for production lines.
Every car was essentially a hand-built curiosity
cobbled together by engineers and tinkerers.
They were crude, most still looked like carriages
with engines bolted to the back.
They were noisy, unreliable, expensive,
and often terrifying to everyone on the road,
including horses and pedestrians.
They didn't even start to boast.
They didn't really have points.
Do you remember, again, now I'm going way back
to a very early episode,
like the origin of cars,
where they literally had the flag man going ahead of the vehicle
to warn the horses to get off the road
because they were just that loud and terrifying.
It was not a tool of any kind.
It was a novelty.
No, it was a novelty.
As for the wheels that these novelties rode on,
they weren't wearing anything close
to what we'd call a tire today.
The majority ran on wooden carriage wheels
banded with a solid iron hoop.
Sometimes they coated that with rubber
if they wanted a little more traction.
They were durable, sure,
but the ride was absolutely punishing.
Bone shaker, but car version.
Yes, the car.
The teeth rattler, I don't know.
It was, yeah, not good.
Molar machine.
But this was the market that the brothers faced.
This was a tiny experimental,
absurdly expensive,
and at the time, not a specially practical industry.
Cars were novelties, like we said,
basically motorized toys for the rich.
But Andre and Edward saw something others didn't.
They believed the automobile wasn't just a fad.
It had a future,
and that future would ride on automatic tires.
And so, first, do you know what they did?
They're French.
They're building a car.
They called up our friends at FCP Eurocris.
They went right on the line.
They went to www.fCPEuro.com.
Okay.
And so, they ordered up all the parts they needed
for the French vehicle,
which I don't actually know that FCP Euro
does any citrons or peaches.
But they do have all sorts of parts for BMW's,
Porsche's, Volvo, Audi, Volkswagen, and more.
It's a one-stop shop with over 275,000 unique products,
including expert assembled kits to make shopping simpler.
They take the guesswork out of the shopping process,
and we're wondering what parts you need to do any job.
It's just set to go right there.
And of course, you have your instructional videos
that they have a whole catalog of how to use in DIY.
It's awesome.
They also, of course, have their lifetime replacement guarantee.
Even wear items like wiper blades, brake pads,
and oil filters.
You can just box them up, send them back,
and they'll give you a refund.
It is the best guarantee and warranty in the industry.
They also have the opening of their distribution center
on the West Coast, Mesa, Arizona.
So they're shipping parts from both coasts,
so you can get it in three days or less anywhere in the country
with free shipping.
So check them out today, FCP Euro.com,
take advantage of that free shipping
with any order over $49.
Okay, so Chris, how do you prove your idea, your concept?
How do you prove that, okay,
these pneumatic tires can work on these crazy mechanical
beast called cars?
You have to use it.
It's a use case.
You have to test your metal.
And so which wet better way to show it off
and test the metal of an innovation
than in the heat of competition.
Yes.
Yes, that's right.
The brothers went racing.
They entered their car in the 1895 Perry Bordeaux
Perry race.
Now, this wasn't quite the first automobile race in history.
That distinction goes to literally just the year prior.
The organizer Le Petit Genel,
a Parisian newspaper that loved publicity stunts,
put on a horseless carriage contest.
This was the previous year,
the very first motor race in history
which was basically more of a reliability trial than a true race.
And it was kind of what you expected.
Just like Le Mans.
Contractions showing up that maybe worked or didn't.
But by 1895,
the Paris Bordeaux Perry race was different.
It was the first long distance automobile race.
It was very close to a Le Mans.
It was an endurance race.
Chris, the rules were simple.
Driver machine from Paris to Bordeaux
and back without any outside assistance.
22 cars started the race that year.
Mostly, these were one off Michigan's built in workshops
or even the back of carriage houses.
There was no standard design.
Some entrance ran on steam power,
hulking boilers, sloshing with water,
constantly needing fuel stops,
hissing and spitting as they lurched down the road.
Others were petrol burning contraptions,
primitive internal combustion engines,
with only a few horsepower,
loud enough to rattle windows and entire villages
as they passed down the road.
And there was other like really bizarre hybrid designs,
cars that ran on either compressed air
or both gas and steam engines
or even electric prototypes with massive short-lived batteries.
So the Paris Bordeaux Paris race
was a true proving round of innovation and technology.
And one of those cars
wasn't just about finding the fastest driver.
It was about discovering
which technology could even survive the journey.
Now, so these brothers,
the entry into the race was a modest little car,
nicknamed the Eclare French for lightning.
Which by the way, it was not lightning fast.
But the car itself was...
Well, Jake, by today's standard, it's relative.
It's relative.
It was not as fast as a horse, though.
I don't believe, right?
No, probably not for the whole duration.
This car was actually pretty traditionally
was built by an existing coach builder.
This was not like a home built ground-up thing.
They didn't care to test the car itself.
What they wanted to do was test their new tires.
So they wrapped the wheels with four detachable pneumatic tires.
No one had ever dared to run an automobile
on air-filled tires before.
Every other competitor stuck with the safe choice,
which was solid rubber with carriage wheels and, you know, around them.
15 miles per hour, Jake.
50.
Yeah, no, you're not beating a horse.
You are definitely not beating a horse.
No, like a flat-out horse is 40 miles an hour,
like a race horse.
Yes.
40 miles an hour.
So the Eclare, the little lightning car,
it was not a bone-rattling T-shaking affair.
It was, quote, gliding cushioned by its balloon-like tires.
At least when they stayed inflated, and we're actually working,
because they kept breaking, Chris.
They kept puncturing.
How do they, how do they, how do they, how do they,
they have 132 miles?
That's a long endurance race at 15 miles an hour.
732 miles.
The Eclare's tires blew again and again and again.
The crude early rubber couldn't withstand the sharp stones
and rotted roads.
Each time, Edward and his team swarmed the car,
popping off a rune tire,
patching it, or swapping it,
and set the car back out.
I assume they had little handheld air pumps.
They had bicycle pumps at the day,
right, because bicycles are a thing.
I'm sure they're just sitting there.
Yeah, they, so I was trying to figure out how they did it.
John Boyd Dunlap created the Dunlap valve in 1887.
It was like a fellow metal tube with a rubber sleeve inside.
It was like a one-way seal.
The Schrader valve, as we know it, came like an 1891,
which is, that's a good valve.
So that's been a really long time,
but the Eclare had the Dunlap valve,
which is just like a rubber diaphragm,
which could explain why it went flat all the time,
because that doesn't seem...
What year did that Dunlap valve come around?
1887.
Okay, yeah, so it did use that.
So they basically, it was held shut
by the internal pressure of the tire.
Right.
Yeah, okay.
So here they are, like, you know,
it's, they didn't track how many times they had to stop
and swap tires, but it was a lot.
It was frustrating, exhausting,
and of course, slowed progress during the race
to the point where the brothers finished dead last.
But Chris, here's the thing.
It didn't matter because each and every time
they had to stop and change out tires,
it proved their own point.
The system worked.
You can change a tire on a car or a parent or fix it.
You can change it a lot.
Every time they stopped,
exactly, you know, you have all these, like,
onlookers and little villagers,
later, like, what are they doing?
And they didn't know that you just changed it again.
One point.
Right, like, yeah, exactly two miles earlier.
Good point.
So it was literally just like a rolling billboard for the concept.
Within a decade, no serious car ran on anything,
but pneumatic tires.
The trouble was there weren't many cars
to put tires on in the first place.
By 1900, there were still fewer than 3,000 cars in all of France.
Tires didn't need replacing if nobody was going anywhere.
And so the problem wasn't just selling tires, Chris.
The problem was selling driving itself.
And here's where timing mattered.
Because just as the brothers were thinking about
how to convince people to take the car,
Peris was preparing for one of the most ambitious
spectacles in history.
The exposition universal é of 1900,
attracted more than 50 million visitors.
Excuse me?
This was a world's fair.
And granted world's fairs,
this wasn't the first one.
They weren't new.
London kind of kicked off
things with the great exhibition of 1851.
And then Peris, not to be outdone,
had already staged several world's fairs of its own in 1855,
67, 78.
And most famously, in 1889,
when the French unveiled the Eiffel Tower.
The tower, by the way, was hated by all Parisians when I went out.
They called it an eye-sour.
The giant black smootstack
is stained on the countryside.
Well, think about like French architecture.
Like this beautiful flowing white,
and then it's just stark.
Yes.
You know, that's the one thing I could say
that I don't care if I ever see as the Eiffel Tower.
I just don't care, man.
I mean, it's not on my list, really, but it's not on my list.
It'll be on my Grand Tour of Europe.
You know, when are you going on a Grand Tour of Europe?
I don't know.
Haven't figured it out yet, but I should be a thing I do.
Yeah.
I don't know that traveling to Europe is that
I feel like we miss the bus, man.
Why?
It's just so many people.
So many tourists.
Everything's clawed.
When was there not people in our lifetime?
Like the 70s and 80s, there was far less people
traveling lifetime.
Traveling is like an all-time.
Even I think for COVID was probably good.
Now there's people protesting in the streets
because they don't want people traveling their city
because it makes everything expensive.
And Airbnb's are raising the cost of living
because nobody could live
and all this stuff that's happening.
It just doesn't seem like a good, I don't know.
All right.
I'll wait till the next societal collapse
and then I'll go.
And then go.
Yes.
Yeah.
Hopefully, hopefully we're still around soon enough.
All right.
So massive world's fair.
You talk about people everywhere.
50 million visitors to Paris.
France, again, he want, they want to do out, he,
I know it's, they she.
Oh, Paris is a she.
Yes, it is.
I wanted to outdo herself.
Wait, what?
Outdo?
Undo?
Anyways.
Undo, yeah.
This was not just another fair, Chris.
This was the dawn of a new century.
It's the year 1900.
Paris was determined to show
that it would be the beating heart
of the modern world.
People came from all across Europe,
from America,
from the French colonies,
all around the globe
to see the future on display.
Moving sidewalks,
conveyor belts,
scaring people along the fairgrounds.
Like, like an airport terminal
before that thought was even a thing.
Escalators.
It's like a grocery store thing.
Like the, yeah, exactly.
Escalators were introduced to a public
that had never before stepped onto a machine
and here they are being carried upward.
And at night,
the whole avenue
was blazing with electric lights.
For many visitors,
it was the first time they'd seen a city
illuminated like day
after the sun had gone down.
The exposition,
the universe was,
what told the world,
the future would be dazzling,
bright, fast,
mechanized,
and interconnected.
For the brothers,
it was the perfect opportunity,
the perfect place to launch
their campaign.
If the world was about to step
into a new century machines,
mobility and modern life,
then France's motorists,
few as they were,
they needed a guide
to take them there into the future.
And so in 1900,
the brothers published a free travel guide
from motorists.
If people had the tools to travel,
they figured,
they would be more apt to drive more.
They're taking the danger out of it.
They're making it more commonplace, right?
And as they drove,
guess what, they probably wear out the tires.
They wear out the tires.
Exactly.
So inside this guide,
you'd find maps,
you'd find lists of mechanics,
instructions for fixing a flat tire,
and where to buy fuel.
Places to stay,
even places to eat,
restaurants of exceptional quality
were actually marked with a star in their little book.
And the name of that star, Chris,
the name of this little red book,
this guide,
the name of the company, in fact,
the name of the brothers
was Mishaelin.
There it is.
There it is.
That's the most terrible thing I've ever seen.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
nightmare fuel. Hold on. Dude, no, I don't want to go. I know you were in that book. No, okay,
hold on. Just just okay. So Michelin was terrible. Dude, that was terrifying. Yeah, that is a
DVD cover for a horror film. Just wait. Okay. But let pause. Don't I'm not going to any of those
restaurants. I'm not getting cast. I'm not nothing. Michelin's goal was to get people to drive more,
to sell tires and it worked. But in the process, they kind of accidentally created a cultural
institution fast forward by the 1920s, motoring was no longer a novelty.
France had hundreds of thousands of cars. Roads were improving. Touring had become a middle class
pastime. And this guide was kind of needed for people to navigate to know where they're going
to get where they want to because they didn't have on X Chris. Oh, yes. On X also would have done
a really good job of telling folks where they need to go, where they can go legally,
where they can camp, where they can off road. If you're looking to plan your next adventure,
the best app for it is on X off road. They have over 750 miles of trails and comprehensive offline
maps where you can explore without worrying about cell service. They have futures trail ratings,
detailed information at a discover tool to help you find other trails and roads near you
that has different layers where you can keep cell service in mind. And we'll tell you we're
going to go in and out of service. There's tools like route builder, waypoint marking, real time
updates and route sharing so you can share your routes with your friends. You're fully equipped for
any adventure with on X off road. Try it free for seven days and hit the trails and roads with
confidence. Download on X off road today. So unlike on X, the Michelin guide was evolved beyond just
maps and ratings. Michelin's goal was to get people to drive more, to sell tires and it worked.
But in the process, they accidentally created a cultural institution. Fast forward.
By 1920, motoring was no longer a novelty. France had hundreds of thousands of cars.
Roads were improving. Touring had become a middle class pastime. Meanwhile, this guide that
they still produced ever, you're evolved. Michelin realized that people cared most about one thing,
where to eat. By 1931, Michelin introduced the two star and three star system we know today. This
was the turning point. Wait, how many stars? There's up to three stars. Is there still up to three stars?
I believe so. Okay. I guess hotels are five star hotel, three star, Michelin restaurant. Yes.
So a tire company with a weird mascot that we're going to get to was now shaping the culture of
cuisine, which sidebar. Okay. First of all, I, we talked about this on a previous episode,
like the Michelin star program and how it's like so weird. It's the Michelin tires. I don't know if
people realize that. Yeah. The origins of people are like, yeah, Michelin star. I doubt it's the
same Michelin as the tire company, right? Have you ever had a Michelin star restaurant? I don't know.
Have you? Yes. Okay. So Jesse and I go to this place in Chicago. Okay. We go to this place in
Chicago. And this is, I don't know. It's got to be two years ago, probably. And Jesse was doing a
shoot there and I went with her. I'm like, oh, I'll take her out to a nice restaurant. So we go to
this place and they didn't see us in time. Like they didn't, like we didn't get to our table
properly. And they'll in the time that they said it would take. This lady was so apology. She
comes over. She's like, I'm so sorry. Here's a better table than the other one. And she pulls a
chair out for you. She's beautiful woman. And you're serverally right with you, whatever. This guy
comes up. You know, we look at the menu. He brings us. He brings us ruffles with what? Yeah, with
homemade French onion dip. I believe ruffles the potato chip. I'm sure they were made by the
place. I'm literally picturing. They didn't bring a bag of ruffles. Yeah, they look like ruffles.
They have like the, like the corrugated chips. Yeah, like potato chips. Well, I wanted to
they called them, yeah, like it's called storytelling. James. It's called adding color. So it's
what you eat these and then they they bring you out of drink. You don't even add didn't even ask
for it. They bring me out this drink. And it was, it was some like fruity drink, but it was really,
really strong. So by the time the guy came to get, uh, was that the place we went?
Yeah, that's, that's, I think that's it. It's like, it was, look at that. It's French onion dip
with caviar on the top. Well, you, if you were trying to like impress me, but like, oh,
they brought out this dish for us. It was so awesome. You did not do it by saying, yes,
they brought us ruffles. As we're sitting there. I'm sure Jake, Mr. Very culture, Jake would
prefer that they just bring out something very conventional. Jake wants the conventional. Yeah,
you, what are you talking about? You want them to bring out the date? You were probably upset.
They didn't have ketchup. Hines ketchup there. I'm sure they would have gotten just saying
if I asked for the art of quote storytelling. Okay, good job of setting it up. I'm not, I'm not,
I'm not done. Okay, so they bring out this drink. And it's super strong and we drink it on. We're
eating these chips and we also got like some raw meat that we're eating. I don't remember what it
was, but it's just on a plate. I don't think it was raw meat. I don't think I don't think it was.
I don't think it was prosciutto. Anyway, Mrs. Producers is probably screaming at the
sky. I know. Yes. So we eat that. And then by the time he finally comes to take our order,
I'm wasted. I'm wasted because this drink was so strong. Plus, I'd had something in the bar
earlier. So I'm super drunk. Was it a negroni? It might have been a negroni. I don't know, it was
fruity and extremely, I just remember, I remember being like, wow, this is really good. And
this is going to get me really drunk. Keep capaccio. That's what it was. Yeah. Capaccio,
which I'd never heard of before. Anyway, it was good. It was fine. So he comes to take our order. And
I go, I go, I just want you to bring me, they had wagyu steak. I really wanted to try it. Have you
had it? Yeah. I think I have. Yeah. Well, you know, where they like massage it and they give it
like, um, wagyu is a type of, it's what am I thinking of? What is the, what is the cow? Where they
like, give it beer and they massage it and it lives in the lab of luxury. So the wagyu is like a
type of the way you raise the cow or whatever and where it's from. It's Japan only. I think it's
yes. Yeah, that's why they, yeah, they feed it Sapporo. And I'm pretty sure actually it's not,
they sound like, oh, it's such a nice life for the cow. But really, I think they restrict it. So
it doesn't get bulked up and sinewy. And so it's a very like tender and fat. It's very fat. There's
a lot of fat in the meat. It's very highly marbled. Anytime you see American wagyu or you see like,
oh, you're gonna have a wagyu burger. It's not, it's not wagyu. It's not. Wagyu is very, very,
very, very expensive. Like, even for you to buy it. Did you now, now, was this a menu that had
prices? Uh, it did, but I didn't really look at the menu. Okay. You're just like, I'd like a
wagyu steak, sir. I so I looked at the waiter and I go, I would, I'm going all out, right? I go,
I want you to bring me your, your best steak. I want the best steak that you have. And I don't care
what's with it. You guys just do your thing. It's a Michelin restaurant. I think it was a two-star,
maybe a one-star. Who gives a shit? I don't know how many stars it has. I'll just leave that up.
It had an amount of star or stars and or stars. He goes, okay, yes, sir. And then Jesse orders,
whatever. She orders. And the guy goes away. And he comes back like, maybe 60 seconds later,
he goes, just to be, just to be clear. Okay. I just want you to know that the steak you ordered
is about $480. And I went, I better take a look at the menu. So then I got one that was like
160 bucks or something like that. He made a judgment call there, Chris. He made a judgment call.
I stopped the character that he was serving and said, yeah, probably looked at my fingernails. They're
probably dirty today. Yeah, I better let this guy know that this is like, because you could have
been highly offended. You could have been, excuse me. Do you think I am not able to afford,
I don't know why you suddenly had to ask that. I was like, first of all, I feel like getting you
drunk before you order is a tactic. Yes. Have you ever been to a strip club, Chris? Yes, I have,
but generally they don't serve alcohol, although it's weird. There's a couple that's different in
every state. So it's different in every state and every county, actually. Like one of the
twin cities that go to a strip club. Why did we get down this role? This is how it goes.
Usually we'll go to a strip club at some point, Scotty. We just go to one.
We're going to go to strip club at some point. No, no, no, you arrive there.
It's overstrip. It's a reviews of local strip clubs. Anyway. And some of them are
it's so weird. It's sometimes it's by city. Sometimes it's by county. Sometimes it's by state.
And they all have different rules. Usually it gets more strict as you go down the line.
Yes. Pretty soon it's a you're not allowed to take your top off and there's no beer.
And sometimes it's a strip club. Well, it's true. It's true. And on the beach, what do you do?
You bring your own beer, which is some strip clubs. It's you bring your own beer.
Yeah, 100%. And I usually go we play pool. We hang out whatever get a drink and then we leave.
But there's something good. We'll have an entire cooler of beer on their laps.
And they're just drinking beer at these at these strip clubs. Anyway, my waegu steak was
extremely good. Everything was good. The chips and the dip was good. The drinks were good.
So you still got the waegu steak just not the $500. I think it was like $175. And it was probably
the best steak I've ever had. It was absolutely incredible. It was reloaded on the fork.
And it was I think it's just how much it was aged or whatever. I don't know what a $400 or $500
steak tastes like mine. It probably would have been lost on me honestly. Yeah. Oh yeah.
I'm sorry. That was my that was my get wasted at a Michelin restaurant or the most expensive
thing on the menu by accident story. I love it. Okay. Do you want to talk about the nightmare fuel now?
Yeah. Can you bring up the nightmare fuel again, Mrs. Producer?
All right. We cannot talk about Michelin without talking about the Michelin man.
Dude, by the way, has a name. Okay. Wait, like Larry? Yes. Is that his name? Oh, no.
That was the best guess ever. In 1898, two years before the first Michelin star or Michelin guide
came out, a French cartoonist, but the name of O'Gallop was commissioned to create a character.
Do you see this? We got Jabba the hot on the right there. Yes. Yes.
Jabba the hot French cartoon artist was commissioned to do an advertising campaign for Michelin.
Okay. And he was like, let's do a character for this thing because it's because okay, I guess.
And so this was the first poster that came out from this guy's campaign.
It looks like Teddy Roosevelt, but bondage. Like, he's all wrapped up about his Teddy Roosevelt.
Yes. What this guy came up with was a stack of tires shaped into a man.
In his debut poster, in which you're looking at right here, the very first time he's ever been seen,
he raised his glass filled with nails and broken glass proclaiming,
nuke-esque bibidim Latin for now is the time to drink the idea. Drink this, drink this
shards of glass. The idea will be fine. Was that Michelin tires could swallow road hazards
without flinching? This is terrifying. And what's interesting is these tires are white tires
from like a place where I'm noticing or something. Yes, I'm getting there. So it happens,
the character stuck, becoming the company's official mascot, but people began referring to him
with shortening that initial catchphrase to simply bibidim, which means drink. So bibidim,
he in later, you know, advertisements was known to smoke cigars. He partied. He boxed and fought.
He ran, I guess. He was jolly, weird, and absolutely unforgettable. And at the time, mascots were
like- Sounds like way cooler than the current Michelin man. It was kind of wanders around like a
bowling idiot. Yes. Yeah. So there he is. You're just saying his stomach out and smoking a cigar.
Here have part of my body. Yes. For which one? Here have part of my body for which your car may live
forever. Like, what are we doing? So mascots at the time, Chris, were like the hot new thing in
advertising. Quaker Oatsman. That came out in 1877. Mr. Peanut was 1916. And countless other European
breweries and food companies had cartoon characters, mascots. That was the thing. Consumerism
and advertising to the masses was still kind of in its infancy. And companies thought a friendly face
helped customers remember them. But the bibidim stood out because he wasn't friendly or even just
a logo. He was a character with personality. He had adventures. He embodied the spirit of
travel itself, Chris. And unlike most mascots, he survived into the modern age. We still see
bibidim or- And Mr. Peanut, one man. And Mr. Peanut, you're right. And Quaker Oats, dude, too.
Here, let me place your, your child in part of my, my body. Yes, he's-
Yeah. So there is something peculiar when you look at bibidim and realize he's actually a stack of
tires. Why the heck is he not really in this photo? But yeah, there you go. That's a terrifying one.
Please zoom in on that. That is the most terrifying costume. Oh my god. This is night in the
absolute nightmare view. So- But here's what's weird. Why- why are the tires white, Chris? Why is he
white? All tires were white back then. Yes, they were. Natural rubber is pale gray when mixed with
zinc oxide. Tires looked white. The problem is- I don't really last that long. And they look
sunlight and friction destroyed them quickly. Around 1910, chemists discovered the adding carbon.
So carbon black, a petroleum byproduct, two rubber made tires much stronger, more durable,
and resistant to UV light. Tires lasted five times longer by adding carbon to them and making
a black. So black tires are what took hold. But bibidim, he didn't turn black. To this day,
Michelin Man still sports his historically accurate white hue. And just like the Michelin Man,
the Michelin guide was created to sell more tires. So at first, restaurant listings in the guide were
just practical, where to find food along the road. But the brothers realized people cared more about
eating well than about finding mechanics. The 1926 edition, as I mentioned, featured a new rating
system for restaurants, these stars. One star, here's the actual definition of what the stars
mean, as it was first listed in 1926. One star, excellent cooking, worth a detour. Two stars,
no, I'm sorry, one star was a very good restaurant. Two stars was excellent cooking, worth a detour.
Three stars, exceptional cuisine, worth a special journey. And so the language
is obviously about driving and telling you to go farther. Go seek out these restaurants. It's
worth just going to the journey, just for the restaurant. And it worked. By 1914, France had gone
from 3,000 cars to over 140,000 Michelin became Europe's biggest tire maker. The guide wasn't only
the reason, but it was certainly part of it. It was basically shaping culture and making it a
thing to go out on leisurely drives. Following the recommendations of the Michelin guide,
it kind of made you feel cultured and curated, right? It's like, oh, well, you first of all,
you already got the Michelin recommended restaurant. Yeah, but you've also already got a car.
So you're also already incredibly wealthy. If you've got a car in the early of 2017. By 1914,
yes, it's not as wealthy as like the upper crusts who were like in their toy. Like now,
you don't understand. Yeah, I know, but you don't understand the wealth. People think that there's
wealth discrepancy now that the rich are so rich and the poor support. They haven't, like,
they need to have a historical lesson given to them. During the industrial revolution in the early
20th century, the disparity in wealth was unbelievable between the halves and the have-nots,
unbelievable, which is one of the reasons why the Model T was so special is because it was actually
the every man's car, the every man's car, but like prior to that, and even including that,
you had to be really, really rich to have a car. You really did.
Well, yeah, so it made sense then that like these recommendations, they were serious business,
actually, Chris. Michelin began to take their ratings seriously. Oh my god, these are terrifying
photos still of Bibba Band. Oh my god. What is happening there? That's the that's the that's the party.
Oh, that's the Bibba Band. They're playing music. The Bibba Band. The Bibba Band. Why does he have
a mission when all end, didn't they? Oh god, yeah. Yeah. Well, think about it. It was kind of like
crazy revolutionary out there advertising. Not only do they have this like weird mascot thing that
kind of broke the norm and he's got personality, but they also spent all this money on producing
this guidebook just for the primary reason of getting people to drive. They're not just trying
to sell tires. Like I said, they're trying to literally convince people that driving is good or
worth it. And I didn't I didn't get into this detail, but it's interesting. So the one brother,
at first with the world's fair where they kind of like debuted this thing, it wasn't just
available at the fair, but that's where it was debuted, right? So they're handing him out or whatever
and they also like mailed them and shipped them to every car owner or whatever it was. At first,
it was free, right? For the first few years. It was said that the brother was on one of his road trips
or something and stopped at a mechanic shop and saw that one of those books that they were giving out
for free was used to prop up a mechanics workbench. He lost his shit. And from then on, it was you
had to pay good money for one of these guides because now it went from something that wasn't valued
and was just a freebie like you get in the mail to now it was like, okay, you're paying for this
exclusive information. And to be fair, Michelin began to take their ratings extremely seriously.
The significance in them came down to how they were awarded. Michelin hired anonymous inspectors.
They traveled secretly, paid their own bills and judged with ruthless precision.
Look at that. That is an amazing wheel. That's bibitum right there in Castle,
look at this. Here's a first edition of the guide here. Let me show this to you. Oh boy.
No, maybe. Oh, there it is. The first machine guide.
25,000 Legons. Legade. Oh, that's cool. Look at that. Wow.
A little pricey though. Yeah. I can't read any of this, obviously, but
no, it's in French. They later obviously translated it and produced it elsewhere in the world.
But how they kind of awarded these stars to restaurants specifically was like ruthless.
They, unlike newspaper critics, these guys were anonymous. They had no names. They had no identity.
They had no guidelines. You didn't know they were coming and you couldn't recognize them
walking through the door. This anonymity gave Michelin enormous credibility. You couldn't
bribe Michelin. You couldn't charm them. You couldn't fake your way to a Michelin star.
It had to be earned and it had to actually represent that it was consistent quality because
this was a guy off the street who you didn't know was actually the Michelin star inspector.
Now, during World War II, you're on mute because you coughed Chris. I can't. You certainly don't
want to try to waste a bunch of tires going somewhere with zero stars.
Right. I suppose tires are. Yeah. No, it's serious business, serious business.
During World War II, Michelin stopped publishing the guide as you would expect.
Travel was restricted and luxuries like fine dining or kind of out of place. But here's what's
interesting. In 1944, as Allied forces prepared to liberate France, Michelin quietly reprinted
the 1939 edition of its guide in secrecy under Nazi occupation. Why? Because that guide had the
best, most up-to-date and detailed maps of French roads that were then distributed to the Allies.
General Eisenhower staffed himself used the Michelin guide to navigate and liberate Europe.
That is incredible. Here, I've got to I've got to picture this right here.
Restaurant guide helped win the war in Europe. Here it is. That is such a cool detail.
So they secretly reprinted the 1939 edition and distributed it to the Allies.
What are these maps, dude? These are incredible. Yes, they are. It was literally the best mapping
book of the day. And so they were like, well, I guess let's just fire up the printer and
print a whole bunch of these and distribute them through the underground to the Allies.
Because now they know where to go. Yeah, pretty cool. As the decades rolled on,
Michelin stars remained the gold standard. For chefs, Michelin stars became everything.
Gaining a star could transform your business overnight. Losing one could ruin you.
This was evidenced by the tragic story of Bernard Lousseau. There's all these crazy stories
when you dive into the culinary world about Michelin stars and how big of a weight it is.
Lousseau was a French chef who rose to fame in the 1980s and 90s. He poured his life into his restaurant.
Le Côte Diora, earning the coveted three Michelin stars.
But rumors started to swirl in 2003 that Michelin might remote him to two. The pressure consumed him.
So much that Lousseau, the hyper-successful, hyper-famous chef, took his own life
because of this pressure, shocking culinary world. His death became a symbol of the crushing weight
of Michelin's judgment. Here was a tire company impacting industry and causing people
to literally commit suicide because the facing basically the shame of losing a star.
Today, the Michelin guide covers more than 30 countries. But it still isn't without its controversy.
For decades, Michelin was accused of favoring French and European fine dining, which, I guess,
makes sense. That's where it started. It was French restaurants, the fine dining,
elaborate tasting menus, white tablecloths, the best of the best. Whereas when they came
into different markets, it's like, look, yes, this might not be the most fancy food.
But rating-wise, it should be rated on par.
In 2016, something remarkable happened. A hawker stall in Singapore run by one Chan Ho Meng,
selling $2 chicken rice, received a Michelin star. Cues stretched for hours.
Overnight, the humble stall became world famous. It shattered the old image of a stodgy Michelin star.
Something was most prestigious dining award belonged to a street cart vendor.
But Michelin stars aren't just about food. They're about money, Chris. Cities lobby Michelin
to include them. Apparently, I was thinking about this. We don't have any Michelin star restaurants here
in Minnesota. No, we've never apparently Minnesota because we've never courted them here.
They haven't come here and we haven't courted them. Many Minnesota hasn't taken the time to
and it was, I didn't include this party either, but there was a big uproar LA courted Michelin
to come out and they awarded a couple stars, but it was they basically the public was like,
well, we don't we don't want these ratings. We don't care and we don't think that you're rating
the right things like they didn't get local LA food culture. And so they basically said we're
taking the stars away. You mean tacos? No longer welcome. Yes. Literally. Yes. Yes.
Tacos. Yeah. So it's a it's a it's a massive financial empire and business empire investors
treat these stars like financial ratings, like think about a restaurant trying to get funding
or investment. Well, if you have a Michelin star, boom, all of a sudden it's like a triple A bond
rating. Well, you've seen the bear, right? The show? I haven't seen it. No, dude, I know it's
supposed to be super good. I never got first season good second season was terrible. Third season,
I don't really feel like watching because the second season was very good. But it's all about
this restaurant that starts out and it's this Michelin star chef from another restaurant where he
had a star at that restaurant. And then is and then his brother dies and he takes over his brother's
restaurant. He's like, I'm going to turn the sandwich place into like a Michelin star restaurant.
And it's that journey and the politics of him with his crew and like his cooks and one of his
coaches is really good. It is. But you don't watch good television. I know you know, no, no, no.
You watch right now. Our most watch show is the price is right, Chris.
Rhett absolutely loves the price is right. It is what he asks for when we sit down after dinner.
He then recites the entire intro. Can you recite the entire intro? I was just about to and no,
I can't. I remember as it's the most exciting hour in television. And now here's your host Drew
Kerry. And that's how Rhett doesn't know what's like this. Oh, we started watching the Bob Barker
ones. And they're actually much more entertaining. Like the first couple of seasons where it's like
he's slapping the women on the ass as they come through. And yeah, honey, you ever see the one
where the woman just comes up and full on hits on him. Like I'm going to sleep with you above a
body. He's just like, yeah, it's a wild time. Things are a little bit. I like Drew Kerry.
Um, he's okay. Let's how long he's been doing it. I was like, oh, yeah, he don't want to. But it's
been a while. He's really kind of, he's kind of very. He doesn't have the energy. He's very even
killed. He doesn't have like a lot of swings in emotion. Part of it is like you, the old Bob Barker
ones. I was like, wow, yeah, he's like joking and like all over the place and like kind of like
insulting people a little bit too. Yeah. And I was like, you can't get away with that today. I don't
think probably not. And that's why. Like Drew was the, he's, Drew Kerry is a very safe choice,
right? Yeah, it's not like you could have a fat lady come on and then try to win a refrigerator.
Bob Barker's like, you're going to need a bigger one than this. Yep. Yeah, that would not fly
at all. No, no. Um, anyways, that was way off track. I'm basically done. I was just going to say
that, yeah, after all the, you know, um, you know what's not done, Jake, that the mission, yeah, what?
The driver's club. That's true. The driver's club is never done. No, it's not. No, tell me about
the driver's club, Jake. Uh, for as little as $5 a month, you too can become a member of the driver's
club, Chris, you get if you're still listening instead of skipping this ad, it's because you feel guilty.
Isn't it? You out there listening to the podcast right now. Yeah, feel guilty. You know what this is?
This is like taking the Michelin pamphlet and just throwing it under your workbench. How dare you?
How dare you? How dare I was club member. Um, we do very, in all seriousness, of course,
we always are very grateful for our driver's club members. Um, very appreciative. Uh, there is
Jesse revealing yourself as Mrs. Producer there. I didn't see it. Okay. Um, 5, 10 or 25
bucks a month, you can support overgrossed. Doesn't take much and we are very, very appreciative of, uh,
of those that do. Um, I'm always humbled by to see some of the people that have that have signed up
that I can't even mention. It's, it's phenomenal. We really appreciate you guys. Thank you so much
overcressproductions.com forward slash driver's club. All right. What do you want to do for,
for Christmas for the driver's club this year? Ooh, that's right because we got to figure out the
Christmas gift special things. Yeah. Well, if you're on a Christmas gift for everybody,
but like you're not a driver's club member, you're not getting shit. Where did that come? What is
this? What? Oh, that's, uh, okay. That's, that's me with the Michelin man. And I was like,
who's on the other side? That's me, I guess. That's Michael Gideon on the other side. I love
that jazz. That's perfect. That's phenomenal. Yeah. Do you know that the Michelin man went on
diet fairly recently too? Why? He obviously evolved over the years. And he was very like
poofy big tires for a while there. And then he got more svelte. Svelte? Yeah. He doesn't need
any svelte. It's tired man. We don't need low profile Michelin man. Yeah. He's low profile.
The 30 sidewall. Yeah. Yeah. His, his wife was proud of that. We need to get you down to a 45
series here. The 60, 80 series down. Let's just stay in it. Let's just stay in it. Uh, no, bib it up.
Come on, bib it up. Yes, geez. All right, guys. That's it for today. I think next week we'll have
a little bit of a lift recap to talk to you guys about where we're me and, uh, me and Jeff
and Stephanie are going out to a look at Colton. We're going to be there. Jake stay in home.
I'm, man, I want to hear. I want to hear the whole. I'll tell you, I'll tell you all about it.
We'll have a good, we'll have a good time. It's out in Durham. So I'm really excited to go see
like this tobacco facility and all this stuff. That's really there. All right, guys, we will see you
all next week. Take care.
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