A lively discussion unfolds as the hosts reveal their top five touring car drivers who have never clinched a race win. From Gavin Smith to James K, they delve into each driver's career, highlighting their potential, the machinery they drove, and the circumstances that led to their near-misses. The banter is filled with insights, statistics, and a few friendly debates about talent versus opportunity. Honorable mentions add depth to the conversation, making it a compelling exploration of the sport's history and the drivers who left their mark without a victory.
"...where Vauxhall would and did win races regularly, of course."
Vauxhall is a car brand from the UK that makes different types of vehicles. They have been involved in racing and have won many races.
Vauxhall is a British automotive brand known for producing a range of cars, including hatchbacks, sedans, and SUVs. It has a rich history in motorsports, particularly in touring car racing.
"He was on the scene when they were running the Vauxhall Astra. So he had the car that was capable of getting a race victory."
The Vauxhall Astra is a small car that many people in Europe drive. It's known for being reliable and is sometimes used in races because it can perform well.
The Vauxhall Astra is a compact car that has been popular in Europe for its practicality and performance. It has been used in various motorsport events, showcasing its capabilities on the track.
"... on the scene when they were running the Vauxhall Astra. So he had the car that was capable of getting a..."
The Opel Astra is a small car that many people in Europe drive because it's easy to handle and good on gas. It's known for being comfortable and having a nice inside. People talk about it because it's a popular choice for those looking for a reliable everyday vehicle.
The Opel Astra is a compact car that has been in production since 1991, known for its practicality, efficiency, and solid performance. It has gained popularity in Europe and is often praised for its comfortable ride and well-designed interior. The Astra is significant in discussions about compact cars due to its competitive nature in the market and its various iterations over the years.
"No, he took a podium or two in it. Who took a win in it?"
A podium is where the top three drivers stand to receive awards after a race. It's a big deal to finish in one of those top spots.
In racing, a podium refers to the top three finishing positions in a race, where drivers receive trophies and accolades. Achieving a podium finish is a significant accomplishment for any racer.
"No, he dropped it. The drop link broke at the last corner at Donnington."
A drop link is a part of a car's suspension that helps keep the car stable while turning. If it breaks, the car can handle poorly.
A drop link is a component of a vehicle's suspension system that connects the anti-roll bar to the suspension. If it breaks, it can affect handling and stability during driving, especially in racing conditions.
"I think it was a car that was just about capable of taking a race win."
A race win means that a driver finished first in a race. It's what every racer aims for when they compete.
A race win refers to finishing first in a competitive racing event. Winning a race is the ultimate goal for drivers and teams, showcasing their speed, skill, and strategy.
"He lost to Jack Sears in 2018 when the car rolled across and he was then ruled out with a couple of races with injury."
Jack Sears is a famous racing driver in the UK who has won many races. He is well-known in the world of touring car racing.
Jack Sears is a notable figure in British motorsport, known for his achievements in touring car racing. He has a legacy in the sport and has been recognized for his contributions and performances.
"Yeah, but if you put, Max Verstappen is a very good racing driver. You put him in a haste, has he taken a win?"
Max Verstappen is a famous race car driver from the Netherlands. He is known for being very skilled and has won many races in Formula 1.
Max Verstappen is a Dutch racing driver known for his exceptional skill in Formula 1, where he drives for Red Bull Racing. He has won multiple championships and is considered one of the top talents in the sport.
"Okay, Lewis Hamilton has been a great example of this. Excellent driver in a car the last year."
Lewis Hamilton is another very famous race car driver from the UK. He has won many championships in Formula 1 and is known for being one of the best drivers in the sport's history.
Lewis Hamilton is a British racing driver who has achieved significant success in Formula 1, holding multiple world championships. He is known for his skill, consistency, and ability to perform well in various car conditions.
"...in both the BMW and the Toyota. Clearly a natural racer with the ability to do well in multiple series."
Toyota is a popular car brand from Japan that is known for making reliable and efficient cars. They also participate in various racing events.
Toyota is a Japanese automotive manufacturer known for producing reliable and fuel-efficient vehicles. The brand has a significant presence in motorsports, including touring car competitions.
"...we've seen that in the GT series, which is one of his father."
The GT series is a type of car racing that involves fast sports cars. These cars are often modified versions of regular cars and compete in races that test their speed and durability.
The GT series refers to a category of sports car racing that features grand touring cars. These races often include modified versions of production cars and emphasize both speed and endurance.
"...especially in that EuroTech Honda Civic FK2. And the PerTech Honda. We've seen many victories taken by that car across the years."
The Honda Civic FK2 is a specific version of the Honda Civic that is designed for racing. It's known for being fast and performing well in competitions.
The Honda Civic FK2 is a variant of the popular Civic model, known for its performance in touring car racing. It features a sporty design and is equipped with a turbocharged engine, making it competitive on the track.
"...In the Chevrolet Cruze, when Plato is in it as well. When it wasn't a year."
The Chevrolet Cruze is a small car made by Chevrolet. It's known for being good on gas and is a common choice for people looking for an affordable vehicle.
The Chevrolet Cruze is a compact car that was produced by Chevrolet from 2008 to 2019. It is known for its fuel efficiency and practical design, making it a popular choice among small car buyers.
"...he was in the Halfords 307. Yeah, but that wasn't a particularly good car either."
The Peugeot 307 is a small family car made by the French company Peugeot. It was popular in the early 2000s and is known for being comfortable, but some people didn't think it was very good at driving fast.
The Peugeot 307 is a compact car produced by the French automaker Peugeot from 2001 to 2008. It was known for its practicality and comfort but received mixed reviews regarding its performance and reliability.
"...Maybe this shadow, the massive shadow of the Long Integra. Yeah, yeah, yeah."
The Acura Integra is a small car that was made a long time ago but is still loved by many for being fun to drive and dependable. It's known for being quick and easy to handle, which is why car fans often talk about it. Even though it's not made anymore, people still remember it as a great car.
The Acura Integra is a compact car that was produced from 1985 to 2001, and it is well-regarded for its sporty performance and reliability. It has a strong following among car enthusiasts, especially for its high-revving engines and agile handling, making it a popular choice for tuning and modification. The Integra's legacy continues to influence modern compact cars and is often referenced in discussions about performance-oriented vehicles.
Term
Box Hog
"And he had been in the Box Hog and CC as well, which again, was right at the end of its career."
'Box Hog' seems to be a nickname for a car that isn't doing well in races. It's not a common term, so it might be specific to certain discussions.
The term 'Box Hog' likely refers to a specific vehicle or racing term, but it is not widely recognized in automotive circles. It may denote a car that is not performing well or is at the end of its competitive life.
Select text to request an explanation
Grab yourself that cooling yogurt because we're about to take some hot takes on our
top five touring car drivers to never win a race.
Hello and welcome back to the British Touring Car Podcast.
We are back once again with the top five this time round, keeping you entertained in the off-season.
Oh, no, the bovers are doing the news.
Yes, exactly.
We thought we'd take you through the drivers never, never, I mean, to have won an outright race win.
Yes.
Yeah, so there have been plenty of drivers that have taken wins within a race because
they're independent or jacksies or, yeah, there are lots of different classes that have
been over the years, but this is outright on the road race wins.
Yes.
And there are some...
It sounded a lot snappy when we were talking about it before, yeah.
There are some fairly hefty drivers that haven't, but we did have to do a decent amount of research
for this, didn't we?
We have.
So we are going to do it in reverse order five to one.
We would each take it in turns to give a driver.
We may have the same driver in the same list, but in different places.
These seem to work pretty well on Instagram when I'm doom scrolling at night, so we'll
see how it goes here.
Yeah.
I did my research on this one, which might shock you.
Yes.
It might shock you a lot as well.
I should imagine so.
But I came up with nine drivers in the end that I then had to whittle down.
And I'd like to put a few honorable mentions in that.
Yes, that's absolutely fine.
Do you want to do it?
I suggest you do honorable mentions after two before number one because that's how Watch
Mojo will do it.
Watch Mojo will be very big and have...
I will let you start then.
You'll have to start.
I'll decide my fifth.
Okay, so in fifth place, this is fairly easy for me.
He's had the fewest starts out of all my drivers as well.
So it was a fairly obvious one for me.
Gavin Smith.
Now viewers may know the name as he is the brother of Aaron Taylor Smith.
Older brother.
He raced in the sort of 2000s era of the touring cars.
He dated in 2004.
He raced 69 times.
69, yes.
69 times.
And he raced in the era where Vauxhall would and did win races regularly, of course.
Yeah.
He was on the scene when they were running the Vauxhall Astra.
So he had the car that was capable of getting a race victory.
There's no question about that.
Tom Chilton.
He had some big name teammates as well.
Yeah.
Tom Chilton was there.
Kid's in the back for a bit.
So Jiv and Nadi.
I believe that was the era that Turkington also ran in the Astra as well.
Yes, quite probably.
It was certainly in a round at that time.
And okay, through sort of 2004, five and six, it was mainly a case of Plato and Neil who
were taking race wins.
But you know, there were other ones in there, Shed and Thompson, et cetera.
And Gavin Smith took a few podiums, but never got that top spot on the podium.
And for me, that's why he's number five.
Had the equipment, had the ability, didn't quite get that win.
He is in my list as well, but not at number five.
Well, please enlighten me.
My number five is going to be Ricky Collard.
So a driver that's more recent to the series.
Obviously son of Rob Collard, who has taken several victories in his time in the sport.
Ricky did have one taken away for him, something unjustly.
But that's for you to discuss down in the comments.
He's had 71 race starts in his touring car career.
Having taken two podiums in that time across three seasons.
He's at my number five because he had the Toyota, which at the time was able to take race wins.
He just, I don't know whether he was unlucky or just didn't have that extra little bit that he needed to be almost clinical enough.
Interesting. He's in my list too, but he's not a number four.
Because at number four for me, it's Bobby Thompson.
Now, there's a reason, let me get to the reason why he's so low on the list.
Wow. There's a reason why he's low on the list.
Okay. Because two factors, which we'll get to.
David in 2018, and it's had 130 race starts.
Now, the reason he is low down in this is because there is no doubt.
This is potentially the biggest gap between drivability and car ability I've ever seen in terms of that.
Name me a car of them, the one round at Donnington.
That's right. It's next in where he was in the BMW, where he's had the machinery that we've seen be capable of taking a race win.
He had that you had the Cupra.
It took a win or two, didn't it?
Did it? I believe.
No, he took a podium or two in it. Who took a win in it?
I think Lloyd did.
No, he dropped it. The drop link broke at the last corner at Donnington.
I think it was a car that was just about capable of taking a race win.
It might be, but he was running in a team that...
I do agree. Throughout his career, he has had cars which are very much lacking and not at the forefront of the season.
He lost to Jack Sears in 2018 when the car rolled across and he was then ruled out with a couple of races with injury.
I know Jake Hill took a win in that Audi, but let's be honest, that was a race three reverse grid.
For those kind of cars, you need a hell of a lot of luck to go your way as well.
Nothing away from Jake Hill's winning that car, but you also need a big slice of luck to go your way.
You are basically holding upon a number coming out of a hat, which is by its own definition a lottery.
If you look at Thompson's career as a whole, I think that he's never had the car that matches his ability.
I also don't think the door is completely closed on his career.
I think he might be back in the touring cars at some point and therefore the win is not definitely never going to happen.
That's why there's a lot on my list because I think, as I say, it doesn't my list.
This is the biggest gap between what I believe to be drivability and the car live has.
So I think in my list, I've gone on drivability and should have taken a win, I think.
Yeah, but my argument back on that is that, name your time, Thompson should have taken a win.
He's more than good enough to take a win, which is how I've ranked my list.
Yeah, but if you put, Max Verstappen is a very good racing driver.
You put him in a haste, has he taken a win?
No, but...
Well, is that Max the bad driver?
Well, we never know, actually.
Okay, Max for a few that maybe could, but you know what I mean?
Okay, Lewis Hamilton has been a great example of this.
Excellent driver in a car the last year.
Let's be honest, Ferrari's been a disaster.
Is Hamilton a bad driver?
No, the machinery is not there.
Then how can you compete?
Okay, okay.
Fourth in my list is your fifth.
So Gavin Smith, as we've already mentioned, 69 races, he took four podiums in that time.
He had only two real full seasons in the Astra hatch,
but he was in an area where we've already said that that Astra was competitive.
It was able to take victories.
He just, he was never a name that you saw on the grid and thought,
oh yeah, you could take a win today.
Yeah, solid.
He was solid, but not really hitting that heights.
Yeah, a couple of podiums along the way.
What I would say is that much smaller grids back then as well though.
Yes, agreed, agreed.
Yeah.
Does that give you more chance and opportunity to take a win?
It does when playing with Neil and lumping seven shades of out of each other.
Yeah, but yeah, yeah.
Fair enough then.
Moving to third and it's for me, Ricky Collard.
Okay.
So as we discussed, 71 race starts.
David in 2018 has had chances in both the BMW and the Toyota.
Clearly a natural racer with the ability to do well in multiple series.
We've seen that in the GT series, which is one of his father.
But in touring cars, he never made it to that top set of the podium,
despite, as you mentioned, having that race win taken away from him in the stewards room.
Yeah, like you, I just think that he is one of the,
arguably the biggest name on this list that's had the machinery to do it
and hasn't necessarily taken that machinery to where it can go.
I don't think we'll see him back in the touring cars.
I think he's moved on from that era of his life.
So the collard family line of winning or stop, I'd assume with his dad.
Again, Ricky is clearly a good racer.
There's no doubt about that.
He's taken wins in many other aspects of the sport in single-seaters and in GTs.
He came and got a podium in his first half season when he came into subbing
for collards with senior.
So look, there's no doubt he's a great driver.
A load of combinations to why he didn't necessarily get that race win,
but I think it's a big surprise he's not got a race wins with a name.
Yeah, agreed.
Number three on my list is a certain Jeff Smith,
a driver that has had 156 races in the touring cars,
has taken only two podiums in that time across seven seasons.
I didn't realize he'd been in the sport for seven seasons,
whether it's taken a full season or part drives throughout seasons.
Obviously, his touring car career was curtailed with that qualifying crash
at Croft, which was massive, which we've spoken about several times before.
It's on YouTube if you're not seeing it.
He suffered quite extensive injuries, but he's a very well-experienced driver.
And at the time, you would argue that he had a car that was certainly capable
of taking victories, especially in that EuroTech Honda Civic FK2.
And the PerTech Honda.
We've seen many victories taken by that car across the years.
It's been in touring cars, so I think he's been unlucky.
He was just lacking that little bit more.
And I do wonder if he was younger, whether he'd had more hunger
and been able to recover from the injuries that he sustained
to be able to actually go on and do more in touring cars.
Interesting.
Is he your number two?
He's not.
He's not.
Which gives me my number one.
So for number two, I've gone for James K.
Now, the reason for this is not my number one,
because he outranks everyone in terms of longevity in the series.
So David did a 1986 and has had 296 starts.
And it's basically raced on and off between 1986 and 2013.
So a long span in the touring cars, albeit not a continued one,
is clearly a good race.
So you don't have that long a career in the touring cars
and nearly 300 starts.
If you're not, it's as simple as that, unless you're incredibly rich.
But look, that's not the case.
He's clearly a very good racer.
And the law of averages would have suggested that he would have
that win, particularly when you look at some of the names that
have taken a win and who I don't think are as talented as James K.
He's taken, he's number two in my list.
I want to talk about him now as well.
He's taken many sort of like class wins across his time,
but never that overall winning.
He's actually only had from what I can see one overall podium
as well, which is mad to think with a driver that has that much
pedigree in history within the sport, how he's not done better.
I don't know whether it's a case of he'd been unlucky,
not have the right car at the right time.
I think whether he was just in an era where we had a highly
competitive field, especially through the nineties,
and he just didn't have that extra little bit or the right
brakes at the right time.
I think this is a genuinely is a combination of all those factors
because certainly when I was starting to watch touring cars
in the mid 2000s, he was a mainstay name that was there a lot.
I don't remember being in a wall.
I mean, I remember from that era,
John George being in the wall a lot.
I don't remember James K. in the same in the same style.
So yeah, I think perhaps he's just your classic steady middle
of the road.
You're part of the pun driver.
But a driver that would score points as well.
Oh yeah, yeah.
So I mean, yeah.
Not talking about someone.
Not a back marker.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Halstead or Hamilton currently,
we're talking about a driver that's well in there for the points.
Just not.
He's almost, I don't know,
Josh Cook actually takes wins,
but he was a sort of that era is when they made us a bit too harsh,
maybe like a moffit of today that, you know,
nearly, nearly man.
Yeah.
Just sort of existing and being there and occasional sparks of brightness,
but never taking that top step on a podium,
which I think he'll be gutted by.
Yeah.
I'm sure he's glad we've called him out on this list for that very reason.
Right.
So my number one then.
I don't know if we're going to your honorable mentions.
I do apologize.
We'll keep the watch mojo style.
Your honorable mentions.
Of the honorable mentions,
some of you may or may not remember these drivers.
Second round of pointless.
Yeah, it is.
So Alex McDowell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that probably tells you all we need to know about my thoughts on that.
Yeah.
60 races, five podiums over two seasons.
Five podiums.
Exactly.
I'll take back the shrug.
In the Chevrolet Cruze,
when Plato is in it as well.
When it wasn't a year.
Yeah.
Which I was quite surprised by.
Good car.
Good car, though.
Yes, very.
Sorry.
You've got drivers who have been in the sport for a long time.
Like Dan Welch had 143 races in that proton.
Yeah.
He was an awful car.
He might have walked.
He was an awful car.
He was there for seven seasons as well.
Yeah.
In Welch's defense, never in my life.
I know.
I know.
Did it Alexis for a while as well?
No.
It was always a prototype.
Always a prototype.
Yeah.
There you go.
Can't answer that.
There's Carl Braes, who has been a very successful drivers in GTs.
Yes, he has.
And other aspects, but never quite managed.
Didn't even take a podium in touring cars.
How long was his career, though, in the...
55 races in three seasons.
It's not a lot, is it?
But of a driver of his family...
Yeah, no.
That's fair.
At one point, he was in the Halfords 307.
Yeah, but that wasn't a particularly good car either.
No.
I mean, Dan used to have three wins in it.
Okay.
Maybe I'm missing...
Maybe this shadow, the massive shadow of the Long Integra.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, taint my view on that slightly.
Yeah, okay, fair point.
And the other driver I had a quick look at,
although only there for one season was Johnny Adam,
came in for the GTs, had a good pedigree behind him,
took a couple of podiums in that season.
Yeah, but one season's not enough.
Exactly, which is why he didn't make it into my list.
Yeah, that's completely understand.
And then some of the drivers that have got wins blew me away.
I know.
Maybe that's a video for another day.
Drivers that have taken one win in the Zuring cars.
So you've completely forgotten about.
Yeah, exactly.
Maybe that's the next top five video.
Right, so my number one, then you have mentioned him,
and it is Jeff Smith.
Now, the reason basically,
his curtain page that you've said there,
an incredibly good driver.
We've seen him in recent times in the Mini Miglias,
or Mini Sevens.
No, it's the Small Minis.
What are they called?
It's Mini Sevens.
Anyway, still competing in that.
Still going very well in that,
causing a lot of joy.
I can't believe you saw that.
Silvers in the couple of years go to the TCR.
And as you said, he always had decent machinery.
Let's not forget,
he had the PerTech Civic at times.
He had the EuroTech Civic,
which him and Goff, I think, were teammates in.
And Goff took wins in that car.
And that car has taken wins continuing,
as late as the Butcher era.
A couple of these,
well, that's more than a couple of years ago now, but...
Yeah, just a few years ago now, mate.
Yeah, and he had good teams,
good cars, and a good load of podiums.
He took a poll during his career as well.
And to be honest with you,
he was more off in the front row than he wasn't.
He just never got that top set.
And I don't know why,
because he's clearly a talented racer.
There's no doubt about that.
You see the minis are good because, in a sense,
there's not a lot too of them.
But equally, you then see when...
It's a very cool machinery,
and you sort the week from the chat.
I was about to say,
whilst it might be easy to get in and drive,
because there's not all the aids and stuff,
when you see people like him and Andrew Jordan on that grid,
chucking it around.
You see the difference between a clubman racer
and a top-level racer.
And I think with Jess Spiff and Andy Jordan
and Mike Jordan actually in that era,
and that class, sorry,
you completely see, as you said there,
the week from the chat,
there is a different level to that game.
And that's why Spiff's my number one.
I genuinely remember him at the time,
and I quite liked the Euro-tech team I had.
I've actually gone in there.
Sure, it's somewhere.
Yes, I've got a blue and yellow...
Not blue and yellow,
a black and yellow Wicks era one.
Yeah, good car.
And as you say, unfortunately,
his career was curtailed with that instant at Croft.
Yeah, I understand why he never came back.
I think it's a shame he never came back,
because I do think that, say, a quick driver,
more than capable of mixing it with the best on the grid.
And I just...
I think that will be one of the greatest mysteries
of touring cars as to how he never got
onto that top step at the podium,
when he's been so successful everywhere else
and had a successful touring car career.
Yeah, definitely.
So my number one, as you have already mentioned,
is going to be Bobby Thompson.
That is a wild take.
Let me go get some tzatziki.
That is crazy.
So my reason for putting him at number one
is I think the quality of driver that he is
as again, we've already touched on,
if he had the right car at the right time,
he probably should have taken a win in that BMW
when he had that chance.
He was so quick that weekend,
and it showed all the teams up and down the grid
how good and consistent of a driver that he is.
And it just...
It blows my mind that a driver of his quality
has never been given the chance at a top team
to even go,
okay, we're going to pay for half your season.
Show us what you can do.
Go and take some victories.
Take podiums along the way,
because I think if he got given the chance,
he would be maybe in that first season,
sort of like Cook's level,
right in this fifth, sixth in the championship,
and then he could possibly pick onto better things.
I think if you put him in the seat
and restart that Lloyd has now vacated,
he wins the independent championship
and takes a race win.
It's simple as that.
I cannot rate or put into words enough
how much I rate Bobby Thompson as a driver.
That is the reason for me why he's number one in this,
for him being the best driver to have never taken a win.
On pure talent alone, he is the quickest.
On pure talent alone, I agree,
he'll be top of that list.
My only reason that he's nowhere near that top spot for me
is because unlike Jeff Smith,
Ricky Collard, he's never had, in my opinion,
part of a one-round at Snettern,
where the rain effectively came massively.
And of course, he hadn't had any testing in the car either,
so it's hard to really say.
It makes that weekend even more astonishing
with what he did with no testing in the car.
Absolutely, absolutely.
But because of that,
I think you basically got to scrub that from the record
and say, what is he obviously racing?
A Cooper with a team that no longer exists.
I think we'll just leave that on there.
And an Audi which, by the time he got into it,
was incredibly old
and had been overtaken by pretty much everything on the grid.
And he had been in the Box Hog and CC as well,
which again, was right at the end of its career.
Like him, I've completely sort of put that from my mind,
I should imagine that.
Yeah, you're right, I forgot about that era in that car,
which again, had been a brilliant car 10 years earlier.
Yeah, exactly.
It's the wrong place from time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And not getting the backing he probably deserves.
And I don't know whether that's down to him and his personality
or his drive to go out there and go and get sponsorship.
Like we see Dan Lloyd do.
But I think the look at the victories that Dan Lloyd's had
in that high and I,
that should be Bobby Thompson at the very least, I think.
I'd love to see play it or give him a go.
Yeah, I'd love to see play it or give him a go.
Yeah.
Let us know your thoughts down in the comments
as to who your top five drivers are
that have never taken an outright win in the British touring cars.
You might be surprised when you're doing your research.
Yeah, exactly.
Who has?
You'll find out that some drivers have popped up with that one win,
whether it be a race three reverse grid or crazy weather.
But yeah, it's an interesting read.
Go and research it yourself if you're interested in it
and argue down in the comments kindly as to who is number one.
Absolutely.
And I usually play video by video, like, subscribe, share, comment
all that jazz follows on the socials.
We're not backed by anybody apart from ourselves and you listeners.
So keep us going.
Thank you very much.
We'll see you again soon.
Bye.
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