Top 5 GT Cars - Most Fun Under $50K, Sports Car-Shaped Hole, Does The Dealer Always Know Best? | Episode 1,011
Everyday Driver Car Debate
Top 5 GT Cars - Most Fun Under $50K, Sports Car-Shaped Hole, Does The Dealer Always Know Best? | Episode 1,011
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Car
Honda Prelude
The Honda Prelude is a two-door sports car made by Honda. It was popular for its sporty design and performance, and it was produced for many years before being discontinued.
Car
Honda Civic
The Honda Civic is a small car that many people like because it's dependable and gets good gas mileage. It's available in different versions, including sporty ones.
Term
hybrid system
A hybrid system is a type of engine that uses both gas and electricity to make the car run. This helps save fuel and is better for the environment.
Car
Honda Civic Si
The Honda Civic Si is a sportier version of the regular Civic. It has a stronger engine and is made for people who want a fun driving experience.
Term
torque
Torque is how strong the engine is at getting the car moving. More torque means the car can accelerate faster and pull heavier loads.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower tells you how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and stronger the car can be.
Car
Mazda Miata
The Mazda Miata is a small, two-seat convertible sports car that is very popular for its fun driving experience.
Car
Mazda MX-5 Miata
The Mazda MX-5 Miata is a small sports car that is very light and fun to drive. People love it for how it handles on the road and its lower price compared to other sports cars.
Car
BMW New Class
Car
Hyundai Veloster N
The Hyundai Veloster N is a sporty version of the Veloster, which is a hatchback car. It's known for being fun to drive and has a powerful engine.
Term
front-wheel drive
Front-wheel drive means that the front wheels of the car are the ones that get the power from the engine. This setup can help the car handle better in different driving conditions.
Term
CVT
A CVT is a special kind of automatic transmission that doesn't have gears like regular cars. Instead, it can change speeds smoothly without any noticeable shifts, which helps with fuel economy.
Term
series hybrid
In a series hybrid car, the wheels are powered by an electric motor, and the gas engine is only there to recharge the battery, not to drive the wheels directly.
Term
parallel hybrid
In a parallel hybrid car, both the gas engine and the electric motor can work together to move the car, which can make it faster and more efficient than just using one or the other.
Term
direct drive electric motor
A direct drive electric motor is a motor that sends power straight to the wheels, making it simpler and often more efficient than using gears.
Car
Chevy Volt
The Chevy Volt is a car that can run on electricity and gasoline, giving it a longer range than just electric cars.
Car
Chevy Bolt
The Chevy Bolt is a fully electric car made by Chevrolet. It doesn't use gas at all and runs entirely on electricity, which can be better for the environment.
Car
Honda Accord
The Honda Accord is a popular car that many people drive. It's known for being reliable and comfortable, and it comes in both regular and hybrid versions.
Term
aerodynamic efficiency
Aerodynamic efficiency is about how easily a car can cut through the air. Cars that are designed to be more aerodynamic use less fuel and can go faster because there's less wind pushing against them.
Term
parts car
A parts car is a car that can't be driven anymore but is still useful because it has parts that can be taken off and used on other cars. It's like a donor car for repairs or upgrades.
Part
front brakes
Front brakes are the brakes located at the front of the car that help stop the vehicle when you press the brake pedal.
Part
axle
An axle is a rod that connects the wheels of a car, helping them turn and move the vehicle.
Car
Porsche Cayman
Car
Porsche 911 GT3
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a super-fast version of the 911 sports car, built for racing and performance. It has special features that make it lighter and more powerful.
Term
SI
SI is a sporty version of some Honda cars that makes them more fun to drive. These models usually have better engines and sportier designs than regular versions.
Car
Cadillac STS
Car
Honda S2000
Term
G86
The G86 is a name for a pair of sports cars made by Toyota and Subaru. These cars are known for being fun to drive and having a good balance, making them popular among car fans.
Car
Porsche 911
Car
Toyota Prius
Term
hybrid manual
A hybrid manual is a type of car that uses both electricity and gas for power, and it has a stick shift that lets you change gears yourself.
Car
Honda CR-V Hybrid
The Honda CR-V Hybrid is a version of the CR-V that uses both a gas engine and an electric motor to save fuel and reduce pollution.
Term
Zcar
'Zcar' is a nickname for a line of sports cars made by Nissan. They are known for being fun to drive and have a long history of performance.
Car
Toyota Supra
Car
Ford Mustang
Car
Lotus Elise
Car
Lotus Amira
Car
Hyundai Elantra
Car
Toyota Corollas
Car
Mazda 5
Car
Porsche Boxster
Car
Tesla Roadster
Car
Volkswagen Golf
Car
Audi RS3
Car
Hyundai Palisade
Car
Lexus Lc500
Car
Nissan 300 ZX
Car
Tvr Chimera
Car
Nissan Z
Car
BMW M4
Car
BMW M2
Car
Aston Martin V8
Car
Jaguar Ftype
Car
Cadillac Ct4V
Car
BMW Z4
Car
BMW E46
Car
Lotus Evora
Car
Pontiac Solstice
Car
Pontiac Gt
Car
Ford F150
Car
Alpine A110
Car
Alfa Romeo 4C
Car
Ford Fiesta ST
Car
Porsche Panamera
Car
Toyota Tundra
Car
Toyota Tacoma
LIVE
So, apparently you have many things to
say about our first topic.
>> I'm hot.
>> But I but I would like to start it. I
would like to start. We're going to talk
about the brand new Prelude, which just
got announced a couple days ago. But the
the thing I want to talk about is the
fact that every now and then you and I
say something and pieces of it come back
to us.
>> The point I'm making here is when you
and I recently drove, and it's on our
test drive channel. We recently drove
the current gen Civic
>> hybrid.
>> Mhm. Mhm.
>> And we talked about the fact that it had
in a hybrid system the same power as the
SI, which we really like.
>> Yeah.
>> And we spent the back part of that
review talking about if this only
existed with the Civic SI manual,
wouldn't it be cool? Civic SI, better
seats, a little bit better suspension,
essentially make the hybridized sporty
version of the Civic Hybrid. Yes.
>> It would be a score.
>> Yes. And along comes the Honda Prelude.
>> You're right. And I That's why I'm kind
of uh upset is the wrong word. I I have
thoughts and feelings about it.
>> I can tell. Yeah.
>> I didn't think I did.
>> All right.
>> As soon as it got announced, I thought,
"Oh, prelude." And then everybody saw
the horsepower and torque numbers.
>> 200 horsepower, 232 lb feet of torque,
>> which is more than the SI, by the way.
>> Yes, it is. Mhm.
>> And then people started reading, uh, no
manual.
>> Uh-huh.
>> It's not really It's frontwheel drive
only. Uh, how does this slot against?
What does it compete against? What is
this?
>> Yeah.
>> Where's the competitor from Honda for
the GR86 and the Miata? Where is that
car?
>> Yeah.
>> So, I dug in further. I started really
reading the specs and really trying to
understand Honda's headsp space.
>> Here it is.
>> I want to start with styling.
>> And I like that we have the side
elevation here. Mhm.
>> to show you
>> and ask the question,
>> what is the most aerodynamic and
hydrodnamically efficient shape shapes?
>> A teardrop.
>> A wing or a teardrop, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Because
>> I got that right, everybody.
>> You did get it right because I thought,
"Oh man, it doesn't have the power to
compete with a GRD6 and a Miata is going
to be lighter and this is probably going
to be too expensive." And everybody's
asking the question,
>> "No manual. Oh, what is this S plus
shift that Honda's talking about?" and
it's a hybrid and what what are we doing
here?
>> They've got to be setting themselves up
for something here because the Prelude
as good as it is and as fun as it has
been been in the past,
>> it's never been the pinnacle performance
fun car.
>> True. Yeah.
>> It's been a step down.
>> Mhm.
>> So, what are they doing here? They're
going after efficiency. They're going
after aerodynamics, hybrid,
>> fuel efficiency, great MPG,
>> but still something fun to drive.
>> Seems like it. And the question occurred
to me, can a a new car create a new
class of enthusiast car? I'm asking that
of myself. I'm asking of you. I'm asking
of you, everyone listening and watching.
>> Can a new car suddenly create a slightly
new class of enthusiast or I guess SUV?
>> SUVs and crossover crossovers have been
doing this for decades.
>> Fair point. Under the guise of we bought
a sports utility vehicle. They have made
a lot of things that have stretched that
term beyond belief for sure.
>> It's not that Honda didn't match up with
what Mazda and Toyota are doing.
>> It's that now Mazda and Toyota don't
match up with what Honda's doing because
they have created
>> actually something that has potential to
be pretty fun to drive. And we have
already established with our love for
the Hyundai Veloster N that frontwheel
drive is no slight against an enthusiast
car. Well, but also here's the thing.
This is related to Civic Type Running
gear. And all of us agree that the Civic
Type R is frontwheel drive and we're
fine with it.
>> Yes,
>> that's the thing I'm surprised about
about the commentary about why is it
only front-wheel drive? I'm like because
their iconic worldbeating car is also
frontwheel drive. I would love the Honda
S3000 or whatever Honda would do as an
affordable genuine Miata fighter rear
wheel. I would love to Honda to do that,
but this was never going to be that. It
was never going to be that.
>> No. So, the fact that it's frontwheel
drive, I think, is an obvious reality.
>> I'm so glad you brought the hybrid up
because here we are
>> with a combined system output between a
gas engine making 141 horsepower and two
electric motors with a new system of
shifting that isn't an automatic and it
is not a CVT. It's essentially the way
the clutch, the lockup clutch is
operating between the two electric
motors
>> to transmit power and change the car
from being a series hybrid to a parallel
hybrid at high speeds.
>> It's taking advantage of both.
>> Well, the other thing going on here, and
we also should clarify this, Honda does
hybrid differently than Toyota.
>> Correct. Yes.
>> Honda has essentially a direct drive
electric motor and it's much more
similar to the old Chevy Volt, not Volt,
Volt. It's much more similar to that
than it is to what Toyota is doing. It
is a different reality where
theoretically the gas engine is mostly
there to create electricity and in some
situations it's connected to the wheels.
That is not the way the Toyota Priuses
work. It's not the way hybrids or any of
Toyota work. It's not the way most
hybrids work but it is the way again the
Chevy Bolt Volt was done
>> and now this the Honda versions of the
uh hybrid and that includes Accord and
Civic are this idea. Now, this has been
refined further to be more fun hopefully
to drive.
>> And they're they're creating fake
shifting essentially is what they're
doing in order to appease those of us
that like to drive. The fact that I'm
astonished that they even cared enough
to separate this out and I feel like a
lot of the stuff that you and I called
for as wouldn't it be cool because if I
remember correctly, the hybrid we had of
the Civic also had sport in the title.
And we kept going, why is this called
sport? cuz it wasn't sporty, but it was
a very good hybrid.
>> Sport hybrid or sport touring hybrid.
Yeah.
>> We kept saying, "Where is the actual
sporty version of this?" And instead of
making it as a Civic, they've made it as
the Prelude. And I'm actually okay with
this.
>> Yes. Okay. So, second large point. First
is aerodynamics. And that does address
the styling.
>> Mhm.
>> Because even though it's a two plus two,
the back seats are useless.
>> The back seats I I'm surprised they
qualify because they look like they have
no
>> It's for insurance. It's for insurance.
>> I feel like they have no real headrest.
They probably got those weird headrests
you see on third rows where they like
come up on a huge stalk for 5 ft.
>> Maybe. Maybe.
>> Seriously, because you look at them goes
the entire way up.
>> You look at them in the photos and and
they're going to they're going to come
not even as high as my shoulder blades
if I sit back there. But anyway, it's
for insurance purposes or any two plus
tiny kids. It's not for adults.
>> So, aerodynamic efficiency.
>> Second of all, this is a parts car.
>> Yes.
>> You and I like parts cars.
>> We typically do. The Frankenstein cars
are typically really fun. Yeah. Yeah.
This is Civic Type R suspension. It has
the adaptive variable suspension. It has
the front brakes from the Civic Type R.
Well, Civic Type R front suspension and
axle actually.
>> Yeah.
>> And the engine from the hybrid.
>> Mhm.
>> The actually the entire system from the
hybrid with this new S plus shift. And
if PDK is doing it so great,
>> there isn't a manufacturer on the planet
that can touch PDKs. So to get there to
a fun shifting, whether it's an
automatic or just the ability to shift,
>> Honda has to rethink it. They have to
completely approach that fun feeling.
Quick shifting from a different
perspective. Now, we haven't driven it.
Nobody's driven it. We want to drift it.
Drive it. Dri it or drive it. Driven it
into the ground.
>> Put Put it Put it in the driveway. We'll
we'll experience it as best we can.
Yeah, for sure.
>> So, this is a parts car and parts cars
are successful. We love that 2011
uh 1M.
>> Yep.
>> I love my Cayman GT4, which is a bunch
of GT3 parts screwed to a Cayman.
>> You're right. You're right. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And this,
>> they're taking the best, the greatest
hits because we showed I'm so glad you
brought it up, that Civic hybrid.
>> We showed a lot of love just saying you
wouldn't need to do too much and you can
actually drive this in a performance fun
sporty way.
>> And it seems like
>> Honda already had this on the drawing
board. This was already underway. It's
not like they listen to us.
>> Somebody at Honda was smiling and
nodding when they watched that because
we were already
>> Thank you for being on board what we've
been doing for the past, I don't know,
four years at least,
>> probably. Yeah.
>> And so we thought, gosh, this could be a
fun, efficient, great to drive hybrid,
and it didn't matter. Suddenly, even
though this does not fall within the
Paul specified limit of 250 to 600
horsepower, maximum is technically below
that. You're right.
>> It's below that. And yet, we still loved
it and gave it raves and it was enjoyed
like crazy. Yes.
>> So, third major point and that is
imagine you're the product planner at
Honda.
>> Mhm.
>> There's probably an army.
>> Yeah. There's probably not one there.
There's there's a room. There's been
meetings and a few a few memos went back
and forth and I guarantee you the Slack
channel is full.
>> Honda has told everybody the world with
the Prelude that there is only one trim
level. This is it.
>> There's not going to be a manual
version. They're not indicating there's
an SI and a Type R version of the
Prelude. But again, like I said, this is
not the highest performance two plus two
or coupe or fun performance sporty car.
It's the one down.
>> So if this technology in a front-wheel
drive car will be the lower cost, and by
the way, that Civic hybrid is 3250, 3200
lb approximately, if they can get this
at 3,000 or under,
>> we're good. Well, but but if they can
get it at 3250, I mean, let's be honest,
most sports cars are 3,300 and above
>> like fullon sports cars.
>> But with this styling, I think, huh, I
wonder if Honda is making the prelude
sort of like throwing a dart. It's like
a dart. Like what we love about the
Civic Type R, this the SI, the Veloster
N, there are some the Fiesta STS, all of
>> Yes,
>> they were great enthusiast cars. And so
>> I have
>> high hopes for this
>> and I am fighting against my initial,
well gosh, it should have just been a
direct competitor to a Toyota GR86.
>> Well, then everybody would complain. All
you you didn't lift a finger, Honda. You
just did kind of the same thing Toyota's
already covered. They kind of own that
market and you just wrapped it in your
styling and put a Honda badge on it and
you didn't bring anything new to the
table or push enthusiast driving
forward. But the last time the Prelude
was around, the S2000 was around. And
the Prelude, the Civic, and the S2000
did different things. If you're going to
really be Honda and you really want to
compete with the G86, this is not your
car. It never should be your car.
>> Correct.
>> It needs to be an alt to the Civic,
unique thing in the lineup, which this
suggests it will be. But I do want to
challenge Honda in one thing.
>> Okay.
>> The CRZ existed.
>> It did.
>> A hybrid with a manual. with a manual.
Yes. And I now having said this, in the
same way that the that Porsche I'm going
way back in. Porsche introduced the the
964 911 and they were like really
excited about their all-wheel drive
system. So the first year they were all
all-wheel drive.
>> Mhm.
>> This feels like we're going to do a new
sporty hybrid front-wheel drive and
they're all automatic because that's how
you release that car. We that like
manuals may be like where's the manual?
But the reality is the people that are
going to buy this,
>> 90% of them it's going to be their
commute daily. Mhm.
>> So that's not manual friendly. As great
as the manuals are from Honda and as
much as I would daily a manual from
Honda, that's not this market. This is
>> somebody, frankly, somebody that doesn't
want a Civic, but or a Prius, but wants
a hybrid to go to work. That's the
primary person buying this. It's not
those of us that love the Miata and the
Civic. I mean, and the and the G86. It's
actually not the primary buyer, I bet
you. So, if you're going to commute in
this, hybrid and automatic go together.
But if you have some sporty leanings,
we've given you in the S+. And again, we
haven't driven it. I don't know. But I
do think a year or two down the line,
Honda's proven, and they are the only
ones, to my knowledge, that have done
hybrid manual.
>> Yes.
>> So, it's not even like we're asking them
to go somewhere else. So, where's the
manual version of this in a couple years
or maybe the midcycle refresh? I think
that's still possible. Thank you for
brushing up against my third major
point, and that is the performance
version. There's no SI. There's no Type
R of this.
>> But whatever the S3000, the S2100, the
S20001, I don't care what you call it.
>> It's that coming. They're bringing the
Prelude back. They did it.
>> True. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And what is their next fun actual real
sports car? And they're redefining it
yet again because it probably would be
hybrid. Maybe it's manual, but now this
the technology is perfected to a another
level. They're talking about putting
this technology in future cars as well.
I mean, this is the CRV hybrid and Civic
hybrid running gear essentially with
some performance parts. I love that it's
a parts car. I actually embrace that and
yes to that. And then what will the
S3000 be? That is the rearwheel drive
that differentiates this in the
marketplace.
>> Also hybrid, very fun to drive, more
horsepower. Then we'll get back into the
250 to 600 range,
>> no problem. And I'm excited about this.
>> They're leaving the door open. You're
right. This is a commuter. It's still
going to be fun, but it doesn't compete.
It kind of creates its own new class.
>> It does. But I still think it'll be
interesting to put this against
interesting other competitors.
>> Absolutely.
>> Like 86 versus this. This has more power
than the 86 does. Less horsepower, but
more torque and is hybrid. How's that
feel? The Miata may be weird because I
expect this is going to be maybe a,000
lbs heavier than the Miata or close. Not
really a comparison, but the J86, which
is two plus two, is a definite thing to
compare here. Yep.
>> Frontwheel drive can be very fun. Yes.
As the way the average person drives, I
bet this is going to be quite fun
because they're bringing all, to your
point, all of the proper Frankenstein
parts have been brought over to this.
>> Yes.
>> I'm excited. And it feels so along the
lines of what we were kind of
>> dreaming about when we drove the Civic
Hybrid that I'm glad that the Prelude is
filling that thing we were envisioning.
I also hope the seats are good. It's in
the name. It's the prelude to the actual
sports car coming out in the name.
>> Let's hope so. Yeah, I like that. That's
good. That's good stuff. Okay, we're
going to move on from the prelude. You
guys had so many thoughts. We We dropped
these pictures. They weren't even our
pictures. You guys had so many thoughts
on that car was amazing. One of the
other funny things about all the Prelude
pictures that have been everywhere is
the fact they were shot in our backyard.
>> Yes.
>> A lot of places that we film were the
places where these were shot. All the
way to the point that when I go to our
first bit of news that I'm going to talk
about that I want to bring up, it was
taken at the exact same place. Okay. And
that is Nissan has performance news.
That's not something we say often, but
we're excited about it.
>> Yes,
>> the NISMO Z. This is taken, by the way,
at the exact same turnout of many of
those Prelude photos. I think it's very
funny. Anyway, this is taken obviously
in the fall. I pulled a bunch of photos
from Chance for this episode because I
realized a lot of the cars I'm going to
talk about this episode, Chance has done
really cool photography. So, I wanted to
do a shout out to that. And this is an
awesome, awesome photo of
>> the NISMO version of the Z that we had.
Now, there were two problems with that
car when it showed up. It drove like I
wish the base model drove.
>> Yeah,
>> it was quite expensive.
Those were the two problems because it
was it was it was touching $70,000.
>> Oh, there was actually a third problem.
>> The the third third thing was not a
problem. It was an unexcusable reality.
>> Okay. It's that's beyond problem.
>> That's worse than a problem.
>> Yes.
>> It was this is only going to be
automatic.
>> Yeah. because the transmission and
everything about the engine, it can't
handle a manual. That was the actual
Nissan line. It was it's not possible.
It wasn't it's coming. It wasn't we've
heard you. We rushed it. We thought
everybody like an automatic. The actual
Nissan line was it can't take it.
Well, what I like is that they've
decided that that wasn't correct. And
the announcement has happened that they
are actually going to release a manual
version of this car. And this is the way
you want the current Zcar. I think that
the current, and I'm a Zcar fan, but I
think that the current non-neismo
version is just too soft. The minute you
start driving it quickly, and we're
going to talk about GT cars in this
episode, the minute you start driving it
quickly, it drives much more like a GT
car. It does. That's supposed to be just
a GT car than any kind of sports car.
This can still do some GT things, but is
really sporty and was wonderful on a
back road. I loved it. We put it with
the Supra. We put it with the Darkhorse
Mustang. You can watch that piece on our
actual channel on this exact same
channel. In fact, if you're watching on
YouTube so that I am really excited that
Nissan apparently was wrong because it
can take a manual and the one is coming.
That's that's excellent news. I think
that's fantastic news. Other bits of
news, we have to talk about this. We
have to talk about the Audi. I'm sure
you have better pictures and better
thoughts than I do, but Audi has said
they have a replacement
>> for this is the same thing Lotus did.
Lotus had the beloved Elise and the
beloved uh Evvora and they replaced both
cars with one, the Amira. Well, what
happens when you replace a really small
car and a mediumsized car with a with
another car? That means it's no longer
small.
>> Mhm.
>> So, they've released this the concept C.
>> Concept C.
>> I have I have
>> super creative name.
>> I have many thoughts. Um but I'm sure
you have more thoughts and better
thoughts than I do. But we have to talk
about this Audi concept because they say
that this including this vertical grill
here is the new look of Audi's going
forward. They've got a essentially I
hate to say it this way, but it looks
like a lock screen on a phone with an
Audi logo at the top.
>> It's a it's a phone, doesn't it? The the
actual grill looks like a phone, a
vertical phone with a lock screen that
has an Audi logo where the time would
go.
>> Let me switch to a slightly different
photo. This is uh what I would consider
the money shot. M there's always a money
shot for every car whenever you're
simple surfaces.
>> For many years now, car companies have
tried to differentiate their products by
doing all kinds of shapes and a lot of a
very strong shoulder line and then a lot
of stuff going on the body side. See
Elantra type Hyundai.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Successful, busy, lots going on.
>> So So many of the Hyundai's are
ridiculously busy. A lot going on at
Toyota. A lot of stylistic elements
>> from Corollas all the way up to
>> You're right. You're totally right.
>> Everything. Sequoas. A lot of visual
busyiness.
>> You would could almost say noise.
>> Mazda tried it. Remember the Mazda 5?
That van with the stamping on the body
panel. Mini Minivan.
>> Mhm.
>> Everybody's tried it. But with this
concept, Audi is revisiting what I think
they're good at.
>> Now, that's not to say that I'm in love
with it. Okay.
>> What I was actually in love with was the
1991 Avis concept.
>> That was great.
>> Really beautiful. It hearkened back to
the auto union days, the type CND auto
unions.
>> And so I come back to this car. I think,
all right, beautiful, clean, crisp
surfaces. And
>> simple is hard to do. Simple is harder
to do than continuing to sketch and put
creases and lines and vents and scoops
and all the cliches.
>> Yeah. Yeah. This one has a lot of nice
bodyside sculpting. Yeah. But it's the
the termination at the front and rear of
the car that is not my favorite.
>> Okay.
>> Because it's directionless almost
>> and that's my problem with the new
Jaguar concept.
>> That's funny because a lot of people
have talked about, didn't this not work
when Jaguar did it? I've seen those
memes where people have like didn't
Jaguar try this and we all said no. I
don't I think this is better than the
Jaguar, which is a low bar. And I also
think that just across the board, this
is more interesting than the Jaguar, but
it the fact that even the comparison's
been drawn is damning.
>> Yes, it it's not good news. And it's
really it comes down to the front and
rear. I mean, proportionally, actually,
the Jag is a classic proportion. Whether
you like it or not, it's classic long
hood, short greenhouse.
>> It's the Mercedes GT we love so much in
silhouette. It's that idea. So to my
eye, this is a concept, but it doesn't
look finished just as the Jaguar does
not not look finished. But that Audi
grill on all the concepts over the years
has become distinctive. It's
trapezoidal. It is not rectalinear. Very
few cases it has been. Even on those old
sensual streamliner auto union cars,
>> it was almost an amorphous shape because
of the way cars were built. It was came
down to the production methods and what
you could and couldn't do.
But here I feel like a better mix of
something directional in the front that
shows speed that indicates some sensual
part of this because it's it's too all
the old '8s cliches bank vault tutonic.
It's too much of those. We've leaned in
too heavily
>> to make
>> a nice sculpted shape with some some
nice fender flares and the rest
>> we we've really gone severe. It's very
It's too severe. It's too clinical. It
doesn't feel emotional in any way. I see
severity here. I see
>> it's it's it's for the person with the
depression.
>> The super clean modern house where
everything is super clean, modern to the
point of having no warmth
>> without warmth.
>> Exactly.
>> That could be changed
>> very easily for a production to do some
directional kinds of shapes that have
been in Audi's history. But the front
grill, it's too simple. It's what you
have identified is all the apps on your
phone have gone to a flat solid panone
color.
>> Yeah.
>> There used to be depth. There used to be
interest to them and they've just gone
flat and boring and featureless. Yep.
>> There's no character personality.
>> But also this is apparently shared on
the platform that is the forthcoming 718
Boxster and Cayman platform. So of
course this of course Audi has this
natural evolution.
>> Sure. Yeah. about the same size. They
needed something to fill the TT and R8
gap. And this feels like the size in
between those two cars.
>> Somebody actually broke down the the
sizes and this is almost dead center
between the two. It's leaning a little
bit more R8, which isn't surprising, but
brings up something that I think about.
It's interesting that we're talking
about the 718 chassis because I have
something that I want to talk about real
quickly about this design that I was
fascinated by the moment I saw it. And
that is when they showed the roof
opening
>> because remember both the TT and the R8
were famous for being convertibles,
having convertible versions.
>> So this is a screen capture I'm showing
of the roof opening. What it actually
is, it's not a convertible. It's a
target.
>> They went over to Porsche and said,
"Hey, how do you guys do it?"
>> This feels completely like it's actually
built on the 911 target and they
actually took a 911 target and put a
body kit on it and released this. And
I'm not Please don't misunderstand me. I
understand this is how concepts are
done.
in order to get things to work, you
build it on other things.
>> I feel like there's been a lot of press
about this is the new TT and I'm looking
at it going
>> it's a 911 with a Audi body kit and I
hope they differentiate it further. But
the other question that I have is coming
back to your what the new Cayman is
supposed to be Cayman Boxer. Is that
what this chassis is?
>> Did Audi not see the train coming or
train leaving or however you want to use
the the metaphor. My point being here,
the market right now is struggling with
the fact that people don't want electric
performance cars. They don't even
necessarily want
>> electric SUVs of people do.
>> A very small handful.
>> A a Tesla Roadster kind of
>> if that's vaporware. I I think the
reality here is they are showing this
car off to a market who right now is
going, I'm not sure we want EVs. And and
that doesn't mean EVs should go away. I
still want to stand on the fact that
there is a lot of merit in EVs and a lot
of things EVs do well. But the market at
large is going eh on EV performance cars
specifically. Sports cars and luxury
cars are the places where other markets,
other brands are going, our customers
have told us universally they don't want
that. Into that world comes Audi with a,
hey, you want a TT and R placement? How
about an an EV? And I'm like, did you
get did you miss the memo? What
happened? H see that side view. I like
that long that really stronger.
>> No, the shoulder line is awesome.
>> It's just the front and rear that needs
some emotion to it because this is
featureless and emotionless and almost
looks production. Those mirrors look
production and the glass drops in the
door just fine. I want them to finish
this and I'm continually shocked
actually. The market has kind of had not
a turnaway but like a shoulder shrug
to EV performance cars. Could there be
varants? Is there a hybrid version? Is
there a gas version? The same because I
I guarantee you somewhere at Porsche
right now there are a lot of angry
meetings happening and there's a lot of
stress going on and people going gray
because they're trying to figure out
what do we do with the Boxster Cayman
who apparently already the Burblings is
just kind of really an EV box Cayman.
>> I had a conversation with our local
Porsche dealer Porsche of Salt Lake
City.
>> Okay. Yeah. And I talked to a saleserson
there, talked about the new 718 Cayman
Boxster. And this person told me, "Yeah,
your GT4 is not coming back." He said,
>> "What Porsche is indicating is there
will still be the performance, the GT4
RS, there's still quite a market for
that. Something like that would continue
in gas only version at the highest
performance level with a chassis like
that with four for GT4 class."
>> Sure.
>> Rules. Yeah.
>> So that could
casual conversation
the customer base
for the
>> you. You Paul, how many have you bought
now? Sorry. Go on.
>> That won't appeal.
>> They're looking at gaining an entirely
new customer base for the 718 Cayman
Boxster and therefore translating to the
Concept C, whatever the Audi version is.
And good news, Volkswagen can say, "Hey
guys, what are you doing? Can we have
that chassis?" And they'll build a cheap
version.
>> And don't forget about Bentley.
Bentley's going to say, "Hey, can we
coat it in leather?"
>> Interesting.
>> And Bentlfy it
>> bentify. I like that's good.
>> And kick it out the door and suddenly
it's a higher level of luxury even
though you should have bought the Audi
or maybe the Porsche. But anyway,
Bentley can offer something. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Maybe the same size, but have a new
product. and they're looking at
capturing an entirely different customer
as if the customer groups
>> don't even know they exist. It was
interesting to hear that from a
dealership perspective and what they're
expecting their new wave of customers to
be like.
>> Let's hope this Audi does come out in
some variation. The Prelude is coming,
which is actually very exciting. How
long's it been honestly until How long's
it been since there was a new model that
dropped and the enthusiast internet had
excited things to say at all? The fact
>> it's been a while.
>> Exactly. The fact that we're debating
how much enthusiasm is in the prelude, I
think is actually a win and then Audi
drops this and goes, "Hey, we're going
to make a new TT R8, whatever you want
to call it." I hope so. It needs to be
lightweight, but the surfaces suggest
heavy.
>> It's going to be an EV, it's going to be
heavy. It's going to be the better part
of 4,000
>> pounds. But for any lightweight
performance EV,
>> it needs to be as light as possible.
That's what manufacturers need to focus
the tech on because if that is truly
what's possible with the promise, we're
just it just doesn't feel like we're
close to being there. But if that's if
that's possible, if we can surmount that
that that uh was it the Polestar 6
concept that was also sports car like
was very
>> beautiful. The the entire world was sort
of like yes, could you build that? Can I
go buy one right now?
>> Where is that? Why can't I How can I
show renderings?
>> Yeah. Yeah, sure.
>> Oh, what do you mean it doesn't exist?
>> Yeah. More uh enthusiast parts bin news.
I want to go here. And that is I think
you've heard this. It's actually a week
or more old. And that is the Volkswagen
is saying that for the 25th anniversary
of the Golf R, this picture was also
taken at the same place little prelude
shots were done. Thank you, Chance. This
is a Golf R and they're saying that for
the 2027 model, which believe it or not
will be the 25th anniversary of the Golf
R, they're going to give it the Audi RS3
2.5 L inline 5 with nearly 400
horsepower. And I want to echo what's
already been said, ad nauseium, and that
is yes, please
>> bring
>> because the the honestly the biggest
difference right now between the current
Golf R and the RS3 behind the wheel is
the personality of that engine.
>> Mhm. Yes.
>> The RS3 has some flavor that the Golf R
in stock form doesn't have. So, let's
give it in hatchback shape that engine.
Yes, please. I'm sure it won't be
manual. It'll just be auto, but yes,
please. Anyway,
>> but the problem with that is you can go
buy a used RS3 with the same engine at
that point. When this comes out with
that engine, you can
>> new, it'll cost more than whatever the
used 2023 RS3 or 24 RS3
say, well, I actually have more space
and same engine and pretty much the
same, right?
>> But the difference is this will be king
of the hatchbacks. People will love it
because it's hanging in the hatchbacks.
It's usable. The Golf and Golf R have
always done a great job. GTI are having
a ton of space.
>> But if they put a manual in, oh, the
world would rejoice. and Volkswagen
would earn a point.
>> They probably would sell five alt
collectors is the problem. But anyway,
yeah.
>> Well, you also had the press car
recently, the Hyundai Santa Fe hybrid.
>> It came back, but in hybrid form
>> and uh you did a road trip, I think,
right?
>> I burned an entire tank of gas, which
took nearly 400 miles.
>> Good for you.
>> It was 30 30 averaged 30 miles to the
gallon.
>> I actually used it as Yes. I used it as
a support vehicle for one of my son's
mountain bike races, which meant we went
about two hours one way. And uh I hadn't
didn't fuel this car the whole time we
had it. I put grandparents in it and
chairs and coolers and all the stuff you
have to take apparently to watch a bike
race. Uh which you know, you know, I I
don't ever sit down. I'm walking around
the course, but we had chairs and
coolers and yes, absolutely. There were
snacks,
>> snacks and drinks.
>> The Park City Mountain Bike team, by the
way, throws down their food. They do it
big cuz it's a huge team. But but
anyway, but I'm walking around to try to
see. And in fact, we had a parenting
victory. We were at enough points of the
course yelling for our son when he went
by
>> that about four times in he looked at us
like really
>> really?
>> Yes. He looked at us on the bike like,
"Are you there again?"
>> Riding like, "Please stop."
So my my wife Kate has now started a
thing that she was to do when he gets
annoyed with her is she was to see if
she can run along beside him for a while
and go, "I remember when you were just a
tiny little baby just to really grind
him." She hasn't done it yet, but but
anyway, so so she and when he and here
was her new tactic when she starts to
annoy him by hollering at him from the
side from the sidelines, she stays
silent and recruits other people
standing around her like, "My son's
coming. Would you yell for him, please?
I'm just going to stay quiet."
>> Anyway, so we were successful parents in
that regard. But the point here is good
for you.
>> We took the Santa Fe and and I want to
we've driven the Santa Fe when we had it
last year. It wasn't the hybrid. We've
driven the Santa Fe before. We've done a
test drive on it. And I will be honest
in the fact that you and I are not fans.
>> I also think it's ugly
>> and it is beauties in the eye.
>> It's overlapping the bottom of the
Palisad market
>> and it's right on top of the market for
the Kia Telluride. And I think you're
better off buying both of those,
>> the Tellide or the Palisade than the
Santa Fe. Having said that, this comes
in hybrid. It gets great gas mileage.
It's very usable. It is a box to put
people in.
>> That is why the back is just this weird
boxy thing.
>> Volkswagen Vanigan. Just I see Vanigan
in the lights. The Van.
>> The big This is going to sound weird.
The big compliment I want to pay this
vehicle if you want to have one is this
is one of those vehicles you're never
going to think about.
That's that can be good. That can be
good.
>> You just climb in and it does the car
things. It has seats. It has doors. It
has
>> the whole yard.
>> It has technology
paint. A little bit of paint splashed on
it.
>> The point the point I'm making here is I
This sounds weird. I my brain was
solving problems while driving because I
was so unaware of the fact I was being
bothered by driving. I was off covering
other things. Oh, there's everything.
>> My brain was covering other issues. You
had those times in a car when you're
driving along and your brain is like
grinding on something and solving
things. If you're in a car that it asks
much much of you or reminds you that
driving is fun, you can get distracted
by the problem solving. I was problem
solving like crazy at this car and never
thinking about the gas because it was
just sipping at the gas while I had
grandparents and
>> a ton of stuff, snacks, drinks and
bikes.
>> So there is upside here. It is I I would
push you to Tellide or Palisade or
matching minivan minivan of similar
price personally, but I can't take away
anything and say it is bad. It's just
not I just don't think there's anything
compelling about it. But it is a
perfectly acceptable vehicle that will
not distract you.
>> Nothing Santa Fe is a Santa Fe except
for everything else.
>> Well, but you know, Santa Fe is supposed
to be kind of a quirky little place to
be.
>> Trying to come up with
>> this is not quirky. It's just it does
not live up to the name.
>> It's a van hybrid.
>> It's There it is. Yeah.
>> Since you're listening to us, you'll end
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cars. One search
for our topic Tuesday. I've been looking
forward to this one. We've been doing
lists of things.
>> And not only am I excited about this
list? I think we're going to have some
overlaps, but this list got me going. I
want one of these. Like I don't need one
of these. But we're talking about GT
cars, grand tourers. So cars that their
first purpose is not to be a sporty car.
cars you can drive cross country,
whatever your country is. But when the
road is fun, the car is still fun. A
Miata and a Lotus Elise are fantastic to
drive and are not grand tours. You don't
have enough space for bags. They're not
luxurious enough. They're not big enough
when you are driving along at 80 mph.
You're having to think about things.
Okay, got
>> grand tours need you need to be able to
just kind of fade back into the luxury
of it and have it be nice place to be
when the road is boring and awful, but
when the road is good, it doesn't let
you down.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> That that's my parameter. And I stayed
with under 50 grand and I also stayed
with less than 20 years old.
>> I was under 50 grand miraculously for
some of these choices, but also I'm with
you on the usually two-seater, two
doors. For me, Grand Tour implies two
doors. Despite every car company coming
up with, "No, it's a Grand Tour. It's a
It's a coupe with four doors." No, it's
not.
>> This is why BMW didn't make my list
because if you actually make one I
talked about I thought about the 6
series and the eight, but the problem
with both of those is there's the Grand
Coupe version that's essentially would
you like this in four doors? It's like
you no, that's not worth doing.
>> I I discounted that because that seems
very contrived to me. cars that are that
but have a sporty kind of bent, but
they're not necessarily track cars.
There's some gray areas here and there's
there's a bit of back and forth. There's
a lot of horse trading, we'll say, to to
actually get to what we want and how you
can use the car and actually for what
it's best suited for, I think, was my
headspace. And so, I'm going to dive
right in, please.
>> And start with the car that's at the top
of my list.
>> Designed by a fellow Art Center grad,
Ian Cartabiano. is his pest resistance.
The Lexus LC500 is on the screen in
beautiful red. Even though it's being
shown on a track here,
>> it is not a track car.
>> No, no, no.
>> I think the design is outstanding. I
think it's held up.
>> I think it's timeless.
>> And great news, everybody. I found five
under $50,000 on an AutoTist. That makes
the list. That that makes it that
justifies it. Five of them. Some of them
had high miles, like 80 to 100,000
miles. It's funny that you say this
because this is on my list too for the
exact same reason. And what I wanted to
identify is $50,000 is legitimately the
bottom of the LC500 market.
>> It is the
>> if you have
you can go find them. If you have
anything above $50,000, you have more
and more choices. This is I I do think
so. This is up there with the E type,
the '90s 300 ZX as those timeless cars
that that as they go on 20 years from
now, you go, those are just great
looking cars. This is that level of car.
I'm such a fan of the LC500.
>> I want to study little details. I want
to look at the proportions and then
study surfaces and look at details. And
there's constant interest for your eye
wherever it falls. As you study things,
it ends on something else and it leads
you to some other detail that's
interesting and engaging. It still feels
relevant. And this is an old car now.
>> It is. And and it has a fantastic Lexus
V8. We've driven this car a few times
and and honestly, we have been we've
been hard on it when you try to make it
a sports car.
>> Yes.
>> Because it has a ve a engine with tons
of personality and a chassis that just
can't quite keep up with what the engine
would like to do. But if you dial it
back like two notches from sports car
expectation and you and you take it into
that headsp space of, wow, this is great
at this because you didn't expect it to
be.
>> Yes.
>> Now it's amazing.
>> The weight keeps it from being a track
car. It keeps it from being a high
performance car. But that V8 sounds
great. Lots of power. The interior still
feels interesting and relevant. The
shapes there are
>> unfortunately the older style interface
on most car it did get upgraded with a
new interface but still
>> the surfaces just the beauty of this car
alone
>> and you know what this the steering
input ne you know it's not really the
most dynamic feeling car but that's not
why you buy it it's insulating
insulating you and you know people are
looking at you
>> this is so superb it's
>> every time you and I have one of our
meetups and we have another one coming
up soon someone brings one of these cars
Mh.
>> And every time they do, I just think you
did it right
>> because we always end up on great roads
on our meetups and we love doing that.
But there's also always transit time.
>> And you know, you're you will you will
have time on the the tightest roads at
the highest speeds. We're going to be
like, "This car is not loving this." But
that's an extreme situation. And and
I've been I've been on these road trips
in the reverse equation where I'm in the
road trip and I'm leading my in my Elise
and I have a few times when I'm cackling
with laughter because the Elise is so
great on this little back road. But the
rest of the time I'm like, you know,
it'd be nice to be in Lexus right now.
And if you told me drive cross country
in a car right now, this would be that
may be a whole other one we need to do
except spoiler alert. This would be one
of my top five. Like start at one coast,
go to the other coast. LC500's on that
list.
>> I'll add another category here. And it's
cars that are effortless at the miles.
Low speed, high speed,
>> effortless. It soaks everything up and
you feel like a human being at the end
of your trip when you get out.
>> And there's room a good GT car. There's
room to put stuff. Yeah. If you have a
spouse like mine who somehow you don't
understand how we have that many bags,
you could actually have a conversation
about taking an LC500. The Elise is
right out. There's a reason that my son
and I have taken road trips in the
Elise, and my wife and I have not, and
that comes down to where does the stuff
go.
>> Moving on to the next one here, and that
is the Corvette C7 Grand Sport. I've got
a silver one here on screen. And this is
so much fun to drive. We actually drove
one just recently on our Tale of the
Dragon road trip. You can find that
stacked up against a TVR Chimera.
There's a bit of a throughine front
engine V8, but the model, the Grand
Sport model, it has gobs of power,
>> but it's got a sporting character. And
that's why I I go back and forth. Can
you track this car? You could,
>> but there's more trackw worthy cars in
the Corvette lineup in the C7 genre than
this particular one. But this one is the
superb balance between grand and sport.
>> I agree.
>> It soaks up the miles. Very comfortable.
Lots of power. You feel like yourself.
It doesn't fatigue you.
>> Mhm.
>> It's easy to drive, but still engaging.
That's what a good GT car GT car does.
And this absolutely does it for me here.
Doesn't matter the transmission, but
great power.
>> You're two for two. I'm curious if
you're going to run the gamut of all
five of mine, cuz you're two for two.
Keep going.
We might just have different photos.
>> Good news, everyone. If you weren't
aware,
the 2016 Mercedes-Benz AMG GT is under
50 grand. Now, I must caveat that and
admit to you, I only found one for sale
under $50,000.
>> I found the exact same one. I looked I
put this as a wild card because I found
one. One,
>> a solitary one in the US,
>> but one counts. It had 89,000 miles on
it, which is high miles.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> But still, I cannot leave this off
because what a sexy looking car
>> and all of the aspects, the
characteristics that we've described of
good GT cars absolutely apply to this.
Could you track it? Sure. Are you going
to be made happier in something more
lightweight? Yes, you are.
>> Yeah. But we also drove one of these GTS
up against the Aston Vanquish from 2015
and a recent 2022 Ferrari Portoino M in
our road tours uh for going to Kota or
after Kota going to tail the dragon. And
so reminded me of just what a fun
special car this is.
>> And Chris who owns this the one that we
drove he actually drove it on track on
Circuit of the Americas and had a really
good day. But I think he had a better
time when we left the track and did
multiple days of road touring over to
Tour of the Dra Tale of the Dragon. I
think he had a better time then.
>> I like Tour the Dragon.
>> Tour of the Dragon. That's that's what
we're going to call it. We're going to
call our adventure there Tour of the
Dragon. Let's do that. I like it.
>> Okay. We may differ going forward, but
if we reset our headsp space about this
next car, I think you might be in
agreement. And that is the Nissan Z.
>> I did call it a Grand Touring earlier. I
called it a Grand Touring car
>> and specifically the NISMO version of
it. really strikes me as
>> you think it's that's the GT version.
>> One of the two. It kind of depends on
you could go the base model for GT.
>> You could go the base for GT, but you
could go NISMO a little bit more for I
just want a little bit more sporting
flavor to it because
>> we both also admitted the Nismo is how
the base should be.
>> Absolutely it should. So, I think the
Nismo actually wins out because it still
has the characteristics close enough to
be comfortable long term, but it has the
sportiness and sort of that onedge buzz
about it that makes you feel engaged all
the time, but it's not fatiguing to
drive. See, I I don't know you'd want to
spend a whole day in an ebo. I'd have to
drive it again and think about it a new.
Now, it's coming with a manual. Maybe we
can do that.
>> Maybe there's a third model that Nissan
needs to make, and it is right in
between. The Nissan Z Grand Sport,
>> the Niss, I don't know what it is.
I I lean more closely towards the Nismo
because it it vindicated everything I
wanted the Zcar to be because we all
thought, "Oh, the Zcar is just going to
be a great lightweight fun sports car."
[Music]
>> Could we
>> parse that out a little bit more? And
then this the Nismo comes along and now
that the manual has been announced that
should have been thought about. It seems
like
>> they waited for the whole world to drive
their car and then the whole world
suggested, you know, what it needs is
>> wouldn't this be cool?
>> Then they thought of it and then it
started production and engineering and
all that stuff.
>> There there's some grumpy engineer in
the corner at Nissan who was carry solo
carrying the flag for the manual. Nismo
must have a manual and now he's walking
around with an even bigger chip on his
shoulder going told you you know that
guy exists. He may there may be a whole
army of them. But anyway, yeah.
>> So, I also played with the idea from
BMW, an M4 or an M2. Landed on the
competition.
>> Okay.
>> And that is because what a great
balance. Can you track it? Sure.
>> Can you do all day in it? Can you
>> Can you go long distances? Can it saw
through the miles comfortably?
>> It's got that character like a Nismo.
still kind of on edge,
>> but I could say, well, maybe back it off
to a 240i, but still I want the M2
competition or maybe even the first gen,
the 2016 M2. I think that would be a
nice sweet spot. All of these are
successfully under $50,000, which is
great. I I think the M2 really shines
more as a GT, weirdly, than on track,
even though I've driven this particular
>> I think it's F87 on track.
>> Yeah.
>> And loved it. It's good on track, but I
don't think that
>> it was highly modified.
>> Fair.
>> But I thrashed the snot out of it and it
was just enjoyable. Just
>> hanging the tail out. It was just
predictable, fun,
>> but as it is, a stock, you know, base
car would be absolutely fun and you
could absolutely use it as a uh a great
GT car. That brings me to my wild card,
and that is simply because it is in the
name
>> and I struggled with this decision
because you might accuse me of Maserati
bias, and I would accept that happily.
>> Mhm. And you could say, well, you're
just saying what Maserati claims their
car to be. But, you know, the problem
with the Maserati I had was never the
steering and how it drove
>> or the engine.
>> It drove very well.
>> Those were never the problems. It was
everything else that was the problem.
>> However, I went searching and for
$25,000, a low $25,000, you too can find
very high mileage
Gran Turismos.
>> $25,000. Now
>> they are you can find one 50 60,000 mi
for 30 25 30 somewhere in there. But
that tells me if it's properly cared for
like most Maseratis aren't
>> aren't fair.
>> It will run for a long time. I found a
111,000 mi example for almost 20 grand.
>> That means the owner commuted in it,
drove it extensively. It was a 2014 I
believe.
>> Wow.
>> But maintained it and it ran.
>> Convertible or or hard top?
>> It was a hard Well, I can't remember. I
think it was a hard tub.
>> Okay.
>> But still,
>> this if you maintain it could actually
be enjoyable,
>> an exhaust note that is almost
unmatched.
>> Agreed. It's They sound amazing.
>> The engine again, the engine's not the
problem.
>> True.
>> Fair.
>> On the early cars, it was the
transmission, but here we've just got an
automatic.
>> And then the chassis, dynamically great
to drive. Again, it's a finicky Italian,
but if you invest the money into it to
take care of it now, you can find them
very inexpensively,
>> but even brand new, which you know, over
>> over $50,000, I the sketches for the new
one just grab my heart. I just I feel
like is actually
>> beautiful and those prices are
plummeting. So, those will be under 50
soon.
>> Yeah, exactly. Four or five years,
you're going to be able to get a newer
one, which is even better. I do like
that. All right. So, I I need to talk
about my five. And the reality is
there's a lot of overlap here. I have to
go here to an awesome photo from Chance.
And that is the last time we had an
LC500 here that was bright yellow and it
was killer. You said LC500. We've we've
waxed lyrical about it already, but
again, as far as GT cars go, this is
next to impossible to beat. It just
strikes me. I showed one in red and
you've got the one we had in yellow
here. One of the few large cars that
look great in bright, vivid colors. Yes.
Usually that's reserved for for small
sports cars.
>> True. And and this is one of this is why
this design is so great. This is one of
those designs that every color I've ever
seen it in, it is an attractive car. I'm
including blacks, grays, whites, all the
colors I don't like. It's still a car
that turns your head. You put a nice red
or a burgundy or a blue or a yellow on
this car and it's just like, what is
that thing? And I do think 20 plus years
from now, first off, it's a Lexus. It'll
probably still be running, but 20 plus
years from now, I think we're going to
look back on this car and people are
going to be like, "Those are amazing and
they're going to be desirable." Do love
it. It's hard to to knock it anywhere
but the top of the list for GT cars.
Five are available for sale in 50.
>> Well, you know, it counts. Yeah, we'll
see.
>> We're under the wire.
>> You said C7 Corvette Grand Sport. I
totally agree with you there. Now,
here's where our lists diverge. Okay.
>> The top of my personal list for GT cars.
Anytime you and I talk talk about used
GT cars, I have to go to Aston Martin V8
Vantage.
>> So, these are running what price-wise
now? This is an 0708.
>> Bring these are the This is the early
one, the '08. Bring 35 and up.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> So, that you can go find them like
crazy. Typically, the convertibles are
cheaper than the uh hard tops. That's
true of almost all of these kind of
cars. Uh manuals are hard to find, but
they are out there. A manual V8 Vantage.
This This exists forever on my personal
list of if I'm building a garage of
cars, this is on it. I want one of these
so badly.
>> Classic Aston.
>> I think this is alongside that Lexus as
going to look attractive 20 years from
now.
>> The the current Vantage I did not like
at all when they first introduced it and
they've revised it and now I got to a
place where I actually think I like it.
But this one turns my head constantly.
We had one of these early on in the
filming of our show in like 2010 or so.
We both loved it.
>> This does everything I think a grand
touring car should do. It has class.
>> It also has a little bit of sexy style.
It has performance. It has a great
engine note, but you're inside it and
just feeling like, oh, I just want to
sit here all day. Like, let's just where
are we going?
>> Aston Martin V8 Advantage. Again, this
is top of my personal list. I I'm a
little a feared of what these would be
to actually own and maintain, but I have
to tell you, I kind of want to try it.
I'd kind of like to have one of these.
I'd kind of like to have one of these as
a longtermer that we do some road trips
in because I like these so much.
>> See, I loved it when they stuffed the
V12, the 6 L V12 into this small
chassis.
>> Fascinating. Yes.
>> That I I have no idea what they drive
like,
>> but it really fascinates me.
>> It fascinates me, too. This This came in
two different V8 flavors. I'm going to
get it wrong. I think it was a 43 and a
46 or a 43 and a 47. They had two
different engine sizes over the course
of the lineup. The later engine
apparently is a slightly better engine.
I have heard that. Then they of course
they do the big V12. Now the thing
unfortunately I've talked to a lot of
people that have driven the V12 and
they've said that outside of the engine
note it's worse in every other way.
>> Too heavy. It's probably too much weight
on the front front axle.
>> Fascinating. But I'll just I'll take a
first year with a small engine. I'm fine
with it. V8 Vantage is top of my list.
But anyway,
>> I have to say 911. Really? You have to
Here's the thing. I feel like when
you're looking at GT cars,
>> if you're going to say Corvette, you
have to say 911.
>> Okay, fair.
>> Both the Corvette and the 911 are the
ones on this list that start to blur the
line toward you just bought a sports
car.
>> And we got a lot of commentary when we
put the C8 Corvette against the LC500.
And we expect and people are like, "This
is a mismatch." I'm like, "Not really.
Both of them are GT cars. Both of them
were designed around golf clubs.
>> Were designed around a sport.
>> Really? They both were different sport.
>> Yeah, they was in the press materials of
both of them. But at the same time, both
the 911 and the Corvette are actually
leaning more towards sporty cars than
just GT cars, but I can't ignore the
911. The problem with the 911,
>> besides the fact they're ubiquitous,
>> is that for $50,000, you don't have much
choice.
>> True. True. So, you wind up with two
options here. You wind up with some 996s
and some 997s. But in both cases, and I
hate to say this, it's probably versions
you don't want.
>> Not great colors,
>> base models, and those aren't bad.
Please don't get me wrong. We drove a
2005 997 base model in blue in our 50
years of 911. It was one of my favorite
cars of the film. It's still a very good
car. And the 997, which I'm showing
here, which is 05 to 2011, 2012,
>> 2012,
>> that that is my favorite era of the 911
anyway. But the ones that are out there
for 50 are they're just they're just
below 50 as some of these other cars are
and it's not the the 911 you were
dreaming of. But I can't ignore it
because in the world of GT cars, this
does qualify. That's fair. And
interestingly, a 911, a Porsche was not
in my top five list.
This bleeds too much into the sports car
category for me. Although it does prove
yet again the 911 is the best at three
things. It is
>> Yeah,
>> absolutely. A GT car. It can absolutely
be a daily and it's absolutely a track
car
>> for sure. For sure
>> in all of the variants and flavors.
That's why Porsche makes all those
different ones. But you're right. You're
kind of stuck with limited options to
include this
>> at the price point,
>> but it can do the GT car thing very
wonderfully.
>> Absolutely. I think it it does it in
some cases as the car gets bigger, it
leans more and more toward GT car. But
then the last of my five I think is the
car we're all sleeping on and that is
the Jaguar F-Type.
This is a chance model version that
Chance took of a heritage heritage
edition. But I don't care which version
you get.
>> Just go to Auto Tempest right now with
$50,000 as a cap. You have choice. You
have lots and lots of choice of these
cars. And I'm I'm showing an interior
picture as well.
>> This is a fantastic car across the
board. I think as enthusiasts, we are
sleeping on this car. We are ignoring it
and overlooking it.
>> Every time I drive one, I go, "This is
even better than I remember." Hm.
>> They just they drive. Here's the thing.
Is it the best thing I've ever driven?
No. Are the things drive drive better?
Absolutely. Is it a track car? Probably
not.
>> Not really. No.
>> But every time I drive it, I just go,
"This drives great. Jaguar just did it
well. They just And in a world where
past tense, yes, they did." But yeah,
it's sadly true. Here's the thing. This
is I would say as far as luxury is
concerned, 75% of the Aston Martin
Vantage experience.
>> Okay. But it's cheaper money and there's
options out there.
>> Definitely switch gear and materials.
They don't feel like the Aston Martin,
but you can go out and get these. And
there was a brief time when you could
get these in manual, which is amazing to
me.
>> Mhm.
>> Lots of engine choices, rear wheel drive
or all-wheel drive. Most of them have
got a um a six-speed uh automatic. No,
it's an 8-speed automatic because it's
the ZF, I think.
>> Yeah.
>> So, most of them got a really nice
automatic. They've got space for
storage. Now, it's got kind of a small
opening. a little bit less storage than
you might think, but space for storage,
luxury accommodations,
and the dynamics are just good. So, the
Jaguar F-Type, I can't ignore it because
I think it has to be here.
>> You're right. It was just a step below
some of the others that I felt it was
just like almost there, but the others I
felt like were just, you know, a little
bit better, a little bit more either in
dynamics or
>> maybe even switch gear. You know,
instead of old Ford Switch gear in the
interior, it's new Volvo switch gears. I
hate to say it this way, but the reality
is if you start cross shopping these
with a Vantage, the F-Type you're going
to get is going to be almost 10 years
newer than the Vantage you're looking.
>> It's going to be newer and probably a
better car potentially as far as if you
were going to run it as a daily or just
take it out on a road trip right now. I
would prefer the Vantage. I just have a
soft soft spot in my heart. But these
F-types are great. I have two quick wild
cards. Both of them you actually have
mentioned. Uh first off, I have to talk
about the uh
>> the AMG GT just barely just barely at 50
>> sexy car. And then I there's one there's
a there's a part of me that thinks that
you we don't have the money for a show
to do this right now, but there's a part
of me that thinks that we need to buy
30ish,000 GT cars and I need to find a
$30,000 Vantage and you need to find a
$30,000 Gran Turismo Maserati.
>> And I am I am terrified for both of us
about having long-term $30,000 GT cars.
>> I like this idea.
>> I I do too. I don't know where the money
comes from, but one thing at a time.
>> I want to drive that.
>> I know. I know you do. They're great to
drive. your your Maserati history. You
should own I think a convertible,
frankly, used Maserati Grand.
But anyway,
>> I need another reason to buy more
Maserati swag. I need a Maserati
t-shirt. This
>> I need to tease Maserati endlessly
again.
>> I those those are on my wild card list
because I don't know that you want a
Maserati Gran Turismo, but at the same
time, Paul wants a Maserati Gran
Turismo.
>> All right, thank you for all your ideas.
We really enjoy doing the top five
lists.
>> They're really fun. continue writing
your ideas to us and uh we'll look
forward to doing more in the future.
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For the first car debate, Matthew T
writes to us about replacing his dream
car because he's got a sports car-shaped
hole in his life. This story did not go
where I expected. It really doesn't.
Matthew recently sold a car that he was
would have described as his dream
forever car.
>> A 1982 Corvette that he spent two years
restotting, rebuilt engine with a
5-speed manual, and a lot of other
changes and upgrades.
>> Matthew kept it for eight years, loved
working on it, but towards the end
realized he wasn't enjoying driving it
that much, so he sold it. I I have to
stop here, Matthew, and and kind of
applaud you honestly because what what
nor the normal progression here is a
person like you like you buys a car that
they think is going to be their dream
forever car and then they do what you
did. they they build it out into their
perfect version and then if they don't
enjoy driving it, they never actually
admit it because so much effort was put
into the finding and the building and
the hours and the whatever that they go,
"Yeah, I don't I mean, I liked it. I'm
glad to have had this experience, but I
just I don't like driving it much
anymore." And but what happens is it
wind up it winds up in the corner of the
garage under a car cover with a bunch of
boxes on top of it because they can't
quite get rid of it because well I put
all the time in and it was the thing I
dreamed about and you've said all right
I realized I wasn't in driving it that
much and so I sold it. When a dream car
becomes a barnfind car.
>> Yes. That's that's the moment. That is
the moment. We can't possibly get rid of
it,
>> but I never drive it. And so 40 years
from now, we're going to find it in a
dusty garage.
>> Well, I thought this email was so
apppropo because Matthew is looking for
a sports car with a budget of $50,000.
>> There you go. Love it.
>> Doesn't have a ton of requirements,
mainly preferences, and that would be
rear wheel drive or rear wheel drive
based all-wheel drive.
>> Manual is strongly preferred, but
automatic means his wife could drive it,
which would be nice.
>> He prefers a two-seater, but 2 plus two
would be okay as long as it's two doors.
So far, checking every one of our GT
car.
>> Yes, we're doing well. Yes.
>> Matthew's 6'3. He's a big guy, so no
Miatas or anything too small.
>> Okay.
>> He's also an avid autocrosser, so
ideally something that could be
competitive, except he does admit he
uses his GLI DSG transmission, which he
could continue using for autocross.
>> Competitive necessarily mean this car
needs to go autocross. He could just
keep using what he's already got, which
I think you should actually. It's
already suited for it. It's probably all
already set up with it for autocross
with tires. I think you should
>> different task.
>> Leave that to the autocross.
>> And he doesn't want another Corvette. No
Mustangs, Camaros, Chargers,
Challengers, none of that.
>> All right.
>> He's got a fairly small car history.
Includes an a Ford Focus from 2007. The
manual he got in college and drove into
the ground.
>> Love it.
>> Like that. And a 2021 Cadillac CT4V,
which was totaled.
So, Matthew would love to have a new
experience. He's got lots of potential
cars on his list, including the usual
suspects like GR86, Cayman Boxster, M2,
Super Z4, F-Type, but he's open to other
ideas, especially any wild cards that we
might have.
>> Oo, I have a couple that he's not going
to see coming.
>> Mhm. I do love your BMW M2 idea. That is
part of my GT car list because you can
track it, but it really does shine. High
speed, on the road, comfortable.
>> But what's so great about it is it's a
little bit smaller. It's not so big and
heavy.
>> It's It's that right in between car,
kind of right on the cusp. So, I
encourage you to go drive any M2 that is
$50,000. Whatever price under 50 that
you want to to go drive. That is
absolutely worthy to go investigate, but
I also feel like
you need to really consider a 911
because we've now discussed it.
>> Mhm.
>> This is the car that you could
autocross. I don't want you to.
>> You could.
>> You don't need to really,
>> but this is the car that I really want
you to consider to look forward to
driving.
>> Now, I'm showing a 997.2 here. This is a
target, which would mean a more
expensive version. I actually do like
the target from this era. One of my
favorite targets. Yes.
>> Think it's absolutely a worthy
consideration. And as you mentioned
earlier, it does limit your choices in
the $50,000 range. However, if you could
just add 10 grand, the options actually
open up a little bit wider than you
might think. That's true. So, it opens
up a little bit newer cars, lower
mileage, and something that you could
just really make friends with. And and
your wife could drive it because you
could get into PDKs at that point.
>> True.
>> Which would be nice.
>> And I I think it would be absolutely the
thing that
>> we're switching from old Corvette to
much newer 911. It's the thing we keep
talking about and what
>> journalists have done forever as long as
these cars have been around. It's
Corvette or 911.
>> Yeah. True.
>> You're one of the two crowds.
>> True. Yeah.
>> Now you get to try both. So 911.
Absolutely. 50 55 60 somewhere in there.
I'm going to push on you a little bit.
So it's wild card territory, but not
really because this is the car I think
you should consider and I think you'd
really love driving it. Think of classic
interior. It's not so busy. It's it's
just all about the driving experience.
And so different car for you. It's a
completely different experience.
>> That's really good stuff. Bathy, I want
to talk about the fact that you've had a
lot of really good things on your list,
but I want to add a few. I want to list
your list, but at the same time, I
really want to jump right here to the
BMW Z4 coupe.
>> Oh, that's good. Cuz you mentioned the
Z4, the Supra, the 86, the M2, the usual
suspects. Very good usual suspects. And
I think you should drive as many of
those as you can find. But there was
this brief era in the early mid 2000s
when the Z4 came in coupe and it had it
was a greatest hits car. Engine of the
beloved E46, hydraulic steering, great
great profile shape, really a fantastic
looking car. I had the convertible, but
honestly the coupe remains one of those
cars that got away from me. It's just
such a really cool car. So, the Z4
coupe, another one you're not going to
see coming, but I thought about the fact
this beloved car you had was a 1982.
So, an old car.
>> Mhm.
>> You don't want any of the usual suspects
era.
>> Yeah. You don't want any of the usual
suspects of, you know, the normal muscle
cars from the US. It sounds like you
kind of want a completely new experience
that totally different, but you have
that older car history and love. I'm
going to say Nissan 300 ZX twin turbo. I
love that you're showing your car.
>> I'm showing my car because Bob's big.
>> I am because Chance has a fantastic
photo of it here of it on one of our
roadtrip films. But this legitimately,
if I had a bunch of money tomorrow, I
would call up the guy that bought this
car and try to buy it back. It is such a
cool car and it is it's right at that
tipping point
>> when old cars became new cars. It's
right at the fulcrum of that and these
hold up so well. It is a great grand
touring car. I wouldn't use it as a
track car. You're just going to beat on
it too much. But anytime you want to go
drive this car for fun, it is a fun car
to drive. But it has that older analog
feel that you have in your history, but
it feels a lot more modern than an 82
Corvette.
>> That's for sure.
>> So, I I think a 300ZX twin turbo with
your 50 grand, you could find options
all over the place. Don't even need to
spend close to 50 grand. You can find a
really good one. The twin turbo is worth
it. Find one that's been wellmaintained.
These are really, really superb cars.
While I'm staying in cars that I think
will surprise you. I know you're a big
guy. I fit in this one, too. The Honda
S2000.
>> That's smaller. Small bit smaller.
>> It's smaller. But you can fit in it more
than a Miata. I fit in this. I had a Z4.
I fit in it well. Honda S2000 is also a
totally different experience than you've
had before. I think you would like that.
I'm going to get into two wild cards.
Both of them don't work for different
reasons, but uh the first one I really
want to have it work for you. I'm trying
to think about unique experience. I feel
like the cars you've had and the cars
you're looking for are not something you
want to see a lot of, which is why my
choices are becoming this way. And that
brings me to the Lotus Evora.
>> Now, I've got an M2 in the background of
this shot, courtesy of Chance. But the
Avora is a wonderful car. The problem
with your $50,000 budget is at 50 grand,
you're getting base models from the
first couple of years. That's why it's a
wild card because the ones you want are
the 400 and beyond
>> at minimum an S from 2014 or so. But
what you probably want is the 2017 range
of the 400 and beyond. And that's going
to be 15 to 20 grand more than your
budget. And I'm actually showing a uh GT
here, which was the last latest and
greatest model. But an Evora is a
totally different experience than you've
had. And I think I mean it's Toyota
engine. I think you're going to love
having that car. And then a wild card
that I didn't even see coming until the
idea popped in my head.
>> Okay. All right,
>> Matthew, you're a big guy. You have
American cars in your history. You want
something unique, different. You got 50
grand to spend. You're not afraid of
tinkering on stuff. You're too big for a
Miata. A car that nobody sees coming.
It's not the most greatest car to drive,
but it gets overlooked. The Saturn Sky
Red Line. Really, I think the Saturn Sky
styling and especially the interior have
aged better than the Solstice. I think
the Solstice interior is terrible. It
wasn't great to begin with, but now it's
really bad. The Saturn Sky Red Line or
the Solstice, either one of those. You
get the turbo version. The Solstice is
the GXP. You get the the Red Line in the
Saturn lineup. This is GM's attempt at a
Miata competitor. And it doesn't quite
get there cuz it's bigger than the
Miata. Yeah. And it has the most useless
trunk in history. It's staggering how
stupid the trunk is.
>> Even compared to your Lotus Elise.
>> Oh, yes. The Lotus is usable by
comparison.
>> Wow.
>> Because the Lotus Elise, it's a tub.
It's like a normal shaped tub.
>> It's a small tub.
>> It's It's the size of your cuz I've done
it. It's RV sink of your standard actual
tub you would use to put stuff in. I
know that because the guy gave me extra
parts and we barely got it in there.
That's exactly the size of the trunk.
Okay.
>> The problem with this trunk is it's the
hatch where the top goes. The top
doesn't go down automatically, which is
stupid. And so it's literally the extra
space where the top isn't. And you had
to buy these special little like roller
bags. It's like the the rolled up
sleeping mats. That's the kind of space
you have. It's stupid. Yeah. That's not
good. But these drive better than people
think they do. They do. They do. They
are surprisingly good. Even in base
form, they drive pretty well. When we
first filmed a TV pilot for this show
almost two decades ago, we drove a
solstice
>> and we were pleasantly pleased with it
on camera. So, I think this is an utter
wild card. And the other thing I like
about this is this is the nicest one for
sale is half your budget.
Most of them are going to be 15 grand.
Find one that's been well-maintained.
You may have a little bit of a search
for parts on these, but you're never
going to see another one. They are fun
to drive. And because they are built, if
we think about it this way, they were
built for the Corvette owner
>> that kind of thinks he wants a Miata.
>> They're built for bigger people.
>> They're built that kind of GM in
general. Everything GM builds,
>> everything is bigger.
>> Bigger.
>> So, and this is a modern car. I know I'm
way into wild card territory, but it
never gets talked about. And I think
Matthew, you might be the right buyer
for a Saturn sky.
>> This not being a Saturn notwithstanding,
is this the first time that a Saturn has
been recommended
>> on this show? Have we ever recommended
Saturn?
>> It might be the first time.
>> And it's not a Saturn.
>> It's not. It's Opal. The Opel Sportster,
or whatever they're called, Roadster.
Yeah.
>> Pontiac GT. What?
>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
>> Pontiac Solstice.
>> Solstice GT. Yeah.
>> Saturn Sky.
>> Saturn. Mhm.
>> Forgot about that.
>> Yep. Had a cool logo. Uh had a cool
premise. Didn't make good cars. This is
pro maybe the only one.
>> I told you that story long ago when all
the Japanese engineers at Toyota, Honda,
they all bought a Saturn.
>> They were worried
>> as the competitor like Yeah.
>> and tore it apart and burst into
laughter.
>> Yeah. The They thought the Americans had
figured it out until they took apart a
Saturn and decided, "No, no, we're doing
fine."
>> Car conclusions. Topic Tuesdays. Car
debates. [email protected].
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Our second debate is where this episode
was spawned from. Peter M writes to us
and asked and gave us this this idea to
cover $50,000 GT Grand Tour. So Peter,
thank you for suggesting this. He says
GT cars to him are reasonably quiet,
travel long distance without fatiguing
the occupants. Long large luggage space
for two people. So I hope we covered
those requirements, added a few of our
own. And Peter, really appreciate you
writing. and he's got an email debate of
his own because he currently owns a 2022
C8 Corvette convertible.
>> He likes it, but he's not in love with
it.
>> Interesting. Yeah.
>> When he attends track days, he brings
the pop-up canopy that folded into its
case measures 4T high by 8 in wide, 8 in
deep, and that's all that fits into the
Corvette's poorly insulated rear trunk.
So, golf bags and Peter's popup pop-ups.
Yes. Uhhuh. says, "Carsors like the
Supra or GR86 might work. And reading
your email, I'm keeping in mind that you
probably are going to want to track this
car."
>> Yes,
>> the GR86 only has Alcantara in the
interior and eliminates it. So, what
happened to leather? Well, it's the
price point that happened to that car,
not leather itself.
>> Supra does not appear to have a large
enough trunk for the canopy.
>> Maybe an M2 BMW.
>> We've suggested a lot of M2s, and yes,
M2s, we thought would work for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. Mhm.
>> He also thought about something like an
older Aston Martin V8 Vantage.
>> I love them. They're so great. Yeah.
>> He's apprehensive about repair costs
there where to have it serviced.
>> And he says also Jag F-Type could be
nice,
>> but Jaguar is on pause for
>> the world. I think everybody's just
people are holding their breath. Let's
see what happens here.
>> And he says the Corvette also spoiled
him to having an HUD heads-up display.
And Peter,
I'm going to really pull you out of your
budget zone and your comfort zone for
this one.
>> Oh, I like it. Good.
>> Yes. To the M2.
>> Mhm.
>> But I'm going to just go for it.
>> Okay. I I like what you just moonshot
it. I'm toss out the budget and go,
here's what you really want.
>> Because it feels like to me
>> you're
if we suggest any of the the usual
suspects, any of the cars that we've
been talking about, you'll like them for
about 11 minutes. Okay,
>> I got it.
>> Don't get me wrong, I'd love to own any
of them, but for where Peter's coming
from, he likes but does not love his
2022 C8.
>> Sure. Yeah,
>> it's a great car. That can be a GT car.
>> Absolutely.
>> That's absolutely a track car.
>> GT car. Yeah, for sure.
>> But I think you need something that
you're going to scratch your head and
say, I can't believe that I own this
>> and I'm going right for a Lotus Aura.
What I'm showing on screen right now is
the 400. You are right. 2017 400 and up.
>> The problem is only base Evoras, not
even an S is available for $50,000 and
under. Yes.
>> So, you're going to have to go S. But I
thought Peter's not going to want an S
if we're going to go to Lotus Aora.
>> Mhm.
>> Forget the base. Forget the S. Let's go
straight to 400, 410, 430 overseas, but
GT
>> GT at the top end. I would love that car
really got good. If I could make your
budget one and a half times and let's go
straight for the GT, but I'm starting
only with the 400 because also
excellent, but
>> really the GT is the one you actually
want to go buy and this is the car that
I want you to put miles on. The one that
you you won't be able to believe that
you have
>> and your friends will say you got a what
now? Toyota engine.
>> For sure. Yeah.
>> Hopefully that alleviates most of your
fears about maintenance, where to have
it serviced.
>> Toyota engine. Mhm.
>> But the performance, the joy, the sheer
joy you are going to have, you're going
to look forward. You're going to create
excuses, as we should all create
excuses. Are we out of milk again?
>> Why do you keep pouring milk at the
sink?
>> Yeah.
>> Create an excuse to go drive the car, to
figure out a road trip, to bring it to a
track day. You can track it. It can be a
GT car. And then I arrived at the tent.
>> Oh, okay.
>> The back seat.
>> True. And also
>> the back seat. This This has a larger
trunk than you think.
>> It does, but slide it across the back
seat.
>> Yes. Perfect.
>> That's where the canopy goes.
>> Absolutely. All day long.
>> Solved.
>> I've spent way more than you were
expecting to. But also, any of the other
suggestions that we can make? Stay under
$50,000. Uh, okay. I'm almost there. But
I want you to have the car that you just
Oh, yes. I overspent and I'm so glad I
did. And that's Peter, what I think
you're actually saying in your email.
>> That's really good. I do like that. And
and for once, I didn't actually
recommend a Lotus. I also want to say
this to you. The uh the Corvette, I
think you're going to appreciate how
really versatile that car is after you
get rid of it.
>> It's really hard. Honestly, it is
incredibly hard
>> now that I don't have it
>> to buy a car that is as versatile and
still successful at doing as many things
as the C8 Corvette. Now, the fact that
it is so versatile is one of the things
that keeps it from being like a 10
>> because it's trying to be so many
things. It's doing all these things at
like an eight. Yep.
>> Okay. And that I think is one of the
reasons why it's hard to fall all over
in love with the car.
>> But anytime you and I drive ours, and
ours actually is available for sale
right now at about $60,000, low 60s,
which is actually kind of the bottom of
the market, and ours is in phenomenal
shape with a couple of sets of wheels.
So, contact us. We're happy to talk
about it with you. But every time either
one of us drives it, we get out of it
going, "What a great car."
>> Mhm.
>> Because it is again an eight in
everything you can imagine. And that
takes away a little bit of the, "Oh my
god, I love this." But it just works.
And I think once you get rid of it,
you're going to be like, "Yeah, the
Corvette really did whatever." So well,
so I'm just cautioning you on that.
>> The big thing I want to say to you,
Peter, is not even recommending a car. I
want to say this and just kind of
challenge all of this because we see
emails like this often. I would like to
get car X, but the dealer is this amount
away.
>> Oh,
>> or if I ever drove it cross country,
who's going to service it? And I think
we keep ourselves out of good cars by
that thinking.
>> Because the reality is, if you're going
to have a fun car and you're going to
take it anywhere
but down the block from the dealer you
bought it at, you're going to wind up
somewhere where the car needs something
and a dealer isn't close. Even a
Porsche. You take a Porsche on a
cross-country road trip, you're going to
wind up like we have in middle of
nowhere American time towns where they
haven't even seen a Porsche, let alone
know how to service it. We're keeping
ourselves. The only way, honestly, the
only way to buy a vehicle where you will
always be near a dealer is a Ford F-150
or a Chevy Silverado. And that's the end
of the discussion. Even a Corvette, you
can take it into some Chevy dealers
like, "We don't see any of these."
>> Seriously,
>> we don't even stock oil filters. And and
here's the other part of the equation.
>> Even dealers often get it wrong. I want
to come to a direct conversation. We've
been talking about the Merc GT, the
Mercedes GT on this podcast. We recently
drove that one that Chris owns, 2017
blue one that we had on our Kota
roadtrip series. And part of the story
of that car when Chris bought it, he
bought it from a 90some year old car
collector who sold it because the
suspension always felt a little stiff.
And I first drove it when Chris bought
it and thought, "This is stiffer than I
remember." But okay. We drive, but we
drive a lot of cars. Okay.
>> Chris got it home and got a
post-purchase inspection on it, which we
don't recommend it. And he knew that.
Got a post-purchase inspection. And the
person doing the inspection, I don't
even think was a Mercedes dealer.
>> And they found shipping blocks still in
the suspension, which means the first
owner had only ever driven it with the
shipping block still in the suspension,
not having been removed when the car
came off the boat. Now, this means that
the car that they paid a lot of money
for from Mercedes went to a Mercedes
dealer.
>> Yeah.
>> Who didn't know the car well enough to
remove the shipping blocks and gave it
to the customer that way. And that is
not a one-off. We have heard that
situation on all kinds of cars. The
point I'm making here is we think the
dealer is the all knower, alloer of the
car we question and we buy.
M
>> and sometimes, and I've had this
experience, and I have a good experience
with the Lotus dealer here in Salt Lake,
>> sometimes you will find a tech at your
local dealer who is a godsend, and they
are amazing, and they know everything
about the car you're talking about.
>> Y,
>> but you may go to your local dealer and
they're like, "We never see these. I've
never worked on them." And they can pull
up the manual, but this is the first one
they've ever seen. So, my recommendation
to all of us is buy the car that you're
interested in and take it to the
mechanic you trust.
I don't care what's over the door. I I
don't care what it says on the sign. I'd
much rather have a mechanic that I
trust. Because the other thing that's
happened by by this point, and I've
actually had this happen with my Elise,
there are so many do-it-yourself videos
online about how to change X in random
car that you get a skilled mechanic, he
can find the walkthrough, but they're a
skilled mechanic anyway.
So the the days of only the dealer can
service this car, I think that's behind
us. In some cases, the dealer might not
do it right.
>> So buy the car, take it to the mechanic
you have that you trust, and also take
it cross country and realize you're
going to be in the middle of nowhere and
I don't care what you're driving, they
can't service it right now.
>> That's excellent, guys. Thank you for
all your questions. Really appreciate
it. Write to us everyday.
Drivertvmail.com.
Topic Tuesdays, car conclusions and car
debates.
We're going to hop to questions because
we're flying through. You guys are
awesome on questions. We posted a brand
new car in the Prelude and you blew up
with questions. We've covered the
Prelude already. Many questions.
>> So, we're going to jump to other things.
I'm going to jump right here to
[Music]
Espagen 86. I totally butchered that.
Sorry. Looking at Z4s, would you go for
a 2015 hard top, which is a second gen,
161,000 mi, or an '04 soft top with
53,000 mi? Both priced the same. both
manual, roughly $14,000. It's gonna come
down to who is the owner and what is the
service.
>> I think you go with the older one
personally because 53,000 miles on an04
soft top, if that's been babyed and well
taken care of, that car is going to run.
160,000 mi on a 2015, it's a 10-year-old
BMW. There's parts that they're going to
start wearing out, like all the plastic
stuff they put in the cooling system.
Probably is going to need to be
replaced. Probably true of both of them,
actually. Exactly. But the the key thing
here is going to be ownership and
maintenance.
>> On Facebook, Nate asks, "What car has
had the biggest difference between your
expectation versus reality when you
drove it? For better or for worse?" I am
going to answer this by not answering it
and use it instead to promote an
upcoming piece that we have shot that is
lightweight sports cars, including the
Alpine A110 GT, a Lotus Elise like
Todd's.
>> Like, yeah. Not mine. Not yours. For
once. Yeah. and an Alfa Romeo 4C. Now,
these were sports cars in our minds that
are all lightweight, the go-to sports
cars, and it gave us an opportunity to
drive them yet a new with a fresh
headspace against a car we never
actually thought we would get to drive,
and that is the Alpine A110 GT. True. So
all three of those thanks to Ben the
owner who lives in France and he had
this Alpine A110 in the US for summer
2025 and we got to drive it on our road
trip to Kota and also for this
particular film. We're very excited to
share this film, but I don't want to
give any spoilers away. So instead, I
will say look forward to this piece and
your question absolutely will be
answered.
>> I like it. I'm actually going to answer
Nate's question with a couple of actual
cars. I love that you're talking about
that piece because it's coming up on our
like edit to-do list that I'm very
excited about. But we got some really
good footage. But Nate, okay. Biggest
difference between expectation and real
reality when driving a car. I'm going to
give you three that exceeded my
expectations walking up to them. The
Fiesta ST.
>> Oh, that's good.
>> I'd heard it was good. And I was like,
"Yeah, but have you seen it?" It's a
Fiesta ST. I mean, I
>> because around that time, for another
reason, we'd had an opportunity to drive
a base Fiesta ST and I was like, "Okay."
>> Mhm.
>> I mean, sorry, a base Fiesta. And I saw
it so the the base fiesta was so very
marginal that I was like an ST really. I
mean how good can this be?
>> How much better is it than
>> seriously? I you know you've got to be
kidding.
>> Yeah.
>> And every time I drive one I love it.
Every time I drive one I think how cheap
are these? They're so great to drive.
They look quirky. They're very cheap
inside. All there's all these boxes
stacked against it where you're just
like that can't be fun. You drive it.
Go. No. No. That's just great.
>> Be a great winter car. Winter tires on
that thing. Oh my gosh.
>> Handbrake turns everywhere.
>> The current gen boxy, bulbous, weird
looking BMW M2.
>> Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
>> It's like really everything about it,
the stats, the look, the weird Samsung
screen in the interior, the crazy cost,
all of the tech. What are we doing?
Weighs way too much. And I got in, it
was like, this drives brilliantly.
>> It drives so well.
>> I could imagine owning
>> it. Drove Well, here's the thing. It
drove so well. It annoyed me cuz I was
like, "What? What are you doing? You've
so defied all of the logic of what's on
paper. What are you doing over there
being what weird magic are they doing? I
don't want that car to drive that well."
I have to say it. I don't want it to
drive that well. It drives so well and
it looks so ugly and I do not want one
at all. But my god, they're good to
drive. Another one. First gen Porsche
Panamera.
>> Oh yes,
>> ugly. Just just I'm sorry. Just straight
up ugly. What is going on? and you let
that leave the factory looking like
that. You walked out of the house
dressed like that. I just it's just they
were like, "We're going to start selling
this." Really? And it was also at the
area where Porsches Porsches decided
finally decided to make a four-door
sedan and it looked like that.
>> Can we not walk away from the 911 any
further? Can we not just go what does it
need to look like? And part of the
reason it looks so bad is because there
was a mandate that people over 6 feet
tall needed to fit in all four seats.
And my first experience was actually as
a passenger with three other six-footers
in the car and I was like, what is
happening here?
>> That car
>> design brief worked drives amazingly
well and looks awful and only got better
in looks. But those three I have to say
defied all my expectations and I'm
wowed. A slightly related question on
Instagram. Richard asks if there's a car
that we've driven that other drivers
were loathed to let pass. This is great.
>> Yes. A Miata. Any Miata at any time. I
can hold more speed through the corners
than you can. I just can.
>> And a Miata, that tiny little thing. The
problem is every other car, including
old Accords, is faster on the
straightaways.
>> Yes.
>> So, Miata, absolutely. Drivers don't
want to let Miatas pass on the road, on
the track. I don't care.
>> I'm not letting that thing by. Even
though just I'm not I didn't call your
baby ugly. I'm not, you know, I'm not
here to insult you. Just please let me
pass. Yeah,
>> I'm faster.
>> That's I think every Miata driver.
>> I think that's fair.
>> The second part of the question is, is
there a car you've owned or driven that
other drivers seem eager to let you go
buy?
>> Yes, there is.
>> You just actually had one with the
Toyota Tacoma or Toyota Tundra.
>> Yes. The big Tundra. Yeah.
>> The giant grill. Mhm.
>> Any Charger and Challenger that I've
driven, especially with the Hellcat
version,
>> traffic parts just magically.
>> Yeah, that's a good point.
>> It just parts because they see that
menace.
>> And weirdly, my GT4, I'm experiencing it
quite a lot.
>> Really,
>> the quad LED daytime running lights.
>> It looks kind of menacing. It's a low
sports car and it looks
>> severe. It looks very serious. serious
sports car business coming up behind
you.
>> And I've had quite a few people just,
are we in Germany? What just happened?
That's funny. It's great.
>> I agree with you.
>> I'll take it. I agree that those are
really good. Richard, I'm going to say I
can give both sides of the coin here
because I think I'm going to expand on
what Paul's talking about with a Miata.
It's any fairly affordable small sports
car because the Elise I I may be bright
safety yellow and they're not getting
over. They don't care. And in in many
cases, and this is where the other side
of the equation comes in, in many cases
when I drive my Elise, and also when
I've been driving Miatas, and sometimes
with something like a G86,
>> the cars that roll cold, the big lifted
trucks will hunt you down proactively.
I've had it happen multiple times to me
while driving small sports cars. The
flip side is if you drive a large
pickup, a big, you know, billboard
fronted pickup,
>> it is amazing how people, except for
other pickup trucks, people just decide
I should be out of your lane.
>> Yes,
>> you were in my my mirror and I need to
not have that not happen anymore. And
that is very true. Whenever we get a
large pickup, I subconsciously notice
that because I'm conditioned the other
way. And so I'll be driving a pickup,
running an errand. I I I was recently in
this Tundra with my wife and we were
driving somewhere and we were just
having a conversation about nothing to
do with the truck or the trap, nothing.
And she suddenly went, "I should get one
of these." And I said, "Why?" And she
said, "Because people just keep getting
out of your way." And we were just like
red sea was parting as we drove.
>> It's menacing to have that billboard
with lights behind you. It's time to
move.
>> Yeah. Guys, thank you so much for all
your questions. We really appreciate it.
Looking forward to continuing the top
five lists, continuing car conclusions.
We ranted about the prelude way too
long. Deserved it.
>> Yes, it did.
>> And we're looking forward to next time
as always. Cheers, everyone.
[Music]
About this episode
A lively discussion kicks off with the reveal of the new Honda Prelude, sparking debates about its specs, hybrid system, and whether it can create a new class of enthusiast cars. The hosts explore the Prelude's potential against competitors like the GR86 and Miata, while also sharing their thoughts on Nissan's upcoming manual transmission for the Nismo Z and Audi's new Concept C. The episode wraps up with a top five list of GT cars under $50K, featuring picks like the Lexus LC500 and Corvette C7 Grand Sport, emphasizing comfort and performance for long drives.
aerodynamic efficiency
axle
CVT
direct drive electric motor
front brakes
front wheel drive
horsepower
hybrid manual
hybrid system
parallel hybrid
Alfa Romeo 4C
Alpine A110
Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Aston Martin Vanquish
Audi RS 3
BMW 3 Series
BMW M2
BMW M4
BMW New Class
BMW Z4
Buick Gran Sport
Cadillac CT4
Cadillac STS
Chevrolet Bolt
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Volt
Dodge Challenger
Ferrari Portofino
Ford F-150
Ford Fiesta
Ford Mustang
Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Honda CR-V
Honda Prelude
Honda S2000
Hyundai Elantra
Hyundai Palisade
Hyundai Veloster
Jaguar F-Type
Lexus LC
Lotus Elise
Lotus Emira
Lotus Evora
Maserati GranTurismo
Mazda 5 / Premacy
Mazda MX-5 / Miata
Mercedes-Benz AMG GT
Nissan 300 ZX
Nissan Z
Pontiac GTO
Pontiac Solstice
Porsche 911
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Cayman
Porsche Panamera
Tesla Roadster
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Prius
Toyota Supra
Toyota Tacoma
Toyota Tundra
TVR Chimaera
Volkswagen Golf
Original notes
For the list of Top 5 GT Cars Under $50K, the guys need to first define what a GT car is, but the also wonder if GT cars are still prevalent from manufacturers. Do they still resonate with buyers? They discuss a debate for Matthew T, who has a sports-car-shaped hole in his life. Then, Peter M is apprehensive about what’s next since he likes but does not love his C8 Stingray convertible. Audience social media questions include cars that seem to magically part traffic, but which cars do other drivers refuse to pass?
Audio-only MP3 is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and 10 other platforms.
Look for us on Tuesdays if you’d like to watch us debate, disagree and then go drive again!
00:00 - Intro
00:55 - 2026 Honda Prelude: All The Proper Frankenstein Parts
14:48 - Nissan NISMO Z Getting Manual Transmission!
16:53 - Audi Concept C - Exclusively EV
28:08 - Golf R Getting The 5-Cyl Engine
29:44 - Hyundai Santa Fe Hybrid Press Loan
34:28 - Topic Tuesday: Top 5 GT Cars Under $50K
58:27 - Car Debate #1: When A Dream Car Becomes A Barn Find Car
1:11:36 - Car Debate #2: Is The Dealer Always All-Knowing?
1:21:11 - Audience Questions On Social Media
Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, and subscribe to our two YouTube channels. Write to us your Topic Tuesdays, Car Conclusions and those great Car Debates at [email protected] or everydaydriver.com
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