Top 5 GT Cars - Most Fun Under $50K, Sports Car-Shaped Hole, Does The Dealer Always Know Best? | Episode 1,011

So, apparently you have many things to

say about our first topic.

>> I'm hot.

>> But I but I would like to start it. I

would like to start. We're going to talk

about the brand new Prelude, which just

got announced a couple days ago. But the

the thing I want to talk about is the

fact that every now and then you and I

say something and pieces of it come back

to us.

>> The point I'm making here is when you

and I recently drove, and it's on our

test drive channel. We recently drove

the current gen Civic

>> hybrid.

>> Mhm. Mhm.

>> And we talked about the fact that it had

in a hybrid system the same power as the

SI, which we really like.

>> Yeah.

>> And we spent the back part of that

review talking about if this only

existed with the Civic SI manual,

wouldn't it be cool? Civic SI, better

seats, a little bit better suspension,

essentially make the hybridized sporty

version of the Civic Hybrid. Yes.

>> It would be a score.

>> Yes. And along comes the Honda Prelude.

>> You're right. And I That's why I'm kind

of uh upset is the wrong word. I I have

thoughts and feelings about it.

>> I can tell. Yeah.

>> I didn't think I did.

>> All right.

>> As soon as it got announced, I thought,

"Oh, prelude." And then everybody saw

the horsepower and torque numbers.

>> 200 horsepower, 232 lb feet of torque,

>> which is more than the SI, by the way.

>> Yes, it is. Mhm.

>> And then people started reading, uh, no

manual.

>> Uh-huh.

>> It's not really It's frontwheel drive

only. Uh, how does this slot against?

What does it compete against? What is

this?

>> Yeah.

>> Where's the competitor from Honda for

the GR86 and the Miata? Where is that

car?

>> Yeah.

>> So, I dug in further. I started really

reading the specs and really trying to

understand Honda's headsp space.

>> Here it is.

>> I want to start with styling.

>> And I like that we have the side

elevation here. Mhm.

>> to show you

>> and ask the question,

>> what is the most aerodynamic and

hydrodnamically efficient shape shapes?

>> A teardrop.

>> A wing or a teardrop, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Because

>> I got that right, everybody.

>> You did get it right because I thought,

"Oh man, it doesn't have the power to

compete with a GRD6 and a Miata is going

to be lighter and this is probably going

to be too expensive." And everybody's

asking the question,

>> "No manual. Oh, what is this S plus

shift that Honda's talking about?" and

it's a hybrid and what what are we doing

here?

>> They've got to be setting themselves up

for something here because the Prelude

as good as it is and as fun as it has

been been in the past,

>> it's never been the pinnacle performance

fun car.

>> True. Yeah.

>> It's been a step down.

>> Mhm.

>> So, what are they doing here? They're

going after efficiency. They're going

after aerodynamics, hybrid,

>> fuel efficiency, great MPG,

>> but still something fun to drive.

>> Seems like it. And the question occurred

to me, can a a new car create a new

class of enthusiast car? I'm asking that

of myself. I'm asking of you. I'm asking

of you, everyone listening and watching.

>> Can a new car suddenly create a slightly

new class of enthusiast or I guess SUV?

>> SUVs and crossover crossovers have been

doing this for decades.

>> Fair point. Under the guise of we bought

a sports utility vehicle. They have made

a lot of things that have stretched that

term beyond belief for sure.

>> It's not that Honda didn't match up with

what Mazda and Toyota are doing.

>> It's that now Mazda and Toyota don't

match up with what Honda's doing because

they have created

>> actually something that has potential to

be pretty fun to drive. And we have

already established with our love for

the Hyundai Veloster N that frontwheel

drive is no slight against an enthusiast

car. Well, but also here's the thing.

This is related to Civic Type Running

gear. And all of us agree that the Civic

Type R is frontwheel drive and we're

fine with it.

>> Yes,

>> that's the thing I'm surprised about

about the commentary about why is it

only front-wheel drive? I'm like because

their iconic worldbeating car is also

frontwheel drive. I would love the Honda

S3000 or whatever Honda would do as an

affordable genuine Miata fighter rear

wheel. I would love to Honda to do that,

but this was never going to be that. It

was never going to be that.

>> No. So, the fact that it's frontwheel

drive, I think, is an obvious reality.

>> I'm so glad you brought the hybrid up

because here we are

>> with a combined system output between a

gas engine making 141 horsepower and two

electric motors with a new system of

shifting that isn't an automatic and it

is not a CVT. It's essentially the way

the clutch, the lockup clutch is

operating between the two electric

motors

>> to transmit power and change the car

from being a series hybrid to a parallel

hybrid at high speeds.

>> It's taking advantage of both.

>> Well, the other thing going on here, and

we also should clarify this, Honda does

hybrid differently than Toyota.

>> Correct. Yes.

>> Honda has essentially a direct drive

electric motor and it's much more

similar to the old Chevy Volt, not Volt,

Volt. It's much more similar to that

than it is to what Toyota is doing. It

is a different reality where

theoretically the gas engine is mostly

there to create electricity and in some

situations it's connected to the wheels.

That is not the way the Toyota Priuses

work. It's not the way hybrids or any of

Toyota work. It's not the way most

hybrids work but it is the way again the

Chevy Bolt Volt was done

>> and now this the Honda versions of the

uh hybrid and that includes Accord and

Civic are this idea. Now, this has been

refined further to be more fun hopefully

to drive.

>> And they're they're creating fake

shifting essentially is what they're

doing in order to appease those of us

that like to drive. The fact that I'm

astonished that they even cared enough

to separate this out and I feel like a

lot of the stuff that you and I called

for as wouldn't it be cool because if I

remember correctly, the hybrid we had of

the Civic also had sport in the title.

And we kept going, why is this called

sport? cuz it wasn't sporty, but it was

a very good hybrid.

>> Sport hybrid or sport touring hybrid.

Yeah.

>> We kept saying, "Where is the actual

sporty version of this?" And instead of

making it as a Civic, they've made it as

the Prelude. And I'm actually okay with

this.

>> Yes. Okay. So, second large point. First

is aerodynamics. And that does address

the styling.

>> Mhm.

>> Because even though it's a two plus two,

the back seats are useless.

>> The back seats I I'm surprised they

qualify because they look like they have

no

>> It's for insurance. It's for insurance.

>> I feel like they have no real headrest.

They probably got those weird headrests

you see on third rows where they like

come up on a huge stalk for 5 ft.

>> Maybe. Maybe.

>> Seriously, because you look at them goes

the entire way up.

>> You look at them in the photos and and

they're going to they're going to come

not even as high as my shoulder blades

if I sit back there. But anyway, it's

for insurance purposes or any two plus

tiny kids. It's not for adults.

>> So, aerodynamic efficiency.

>> Second of all, this is a parts car.

>> Yes.

>> You and I like parts cars.

>> We typically do. The Frankenstein cars

are typically really fun. Yeah. Yeah.

This is Civic Type R suspension. It has

the adaptive variable suspension. It has

the front brakes from the Civic Type R.

Well, Civic Type R front suspension and

axle actually.

>> Yeah.

>> And the engine from the hybrid.

>> Mhm.

>> The actually the entire system from the

hybrid with this new S plus shift. And

if PDK is doing it so great,

>> there isn't a manufacturer on the planet

that can touch PDKs. So to get there to

a fun shifting, whether it's an

automatic or just the ability to shift,

>> Honda has to rethink it. They have to

completely approach that fun feeling.

Quick shifting from a different

perspective. Now, we haven't driven it.

Nobody's driven it. We want to drift it.

Drive it. Dri it or drive it. Driven it

into the ground.

>> Put Put it Put it in the driveway. We'll

we'll experience it as best we can.

Yeah, for sure.

>> So, this is a parts car and parts cars

are successful. We love that 2011

uh 1M.

>> Yep.

>> I love my Cayman GT4, which is a bunch

of GT3 parts screwed to a Cayman.

>> You're right. You're right. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And this,

>> they're taking the best, the greatest

hits because we showed I'm so glad you

brought it up, that Civic hybrid.

>> We showed a lot of love just saying you

wouldn't need to do too much and you can

actually drive this in a performance fun

sporty way.

>> And it seems like

>> Honda already had this on the drawing

board. This was already underway. It's

not like they listen to us.

>> Somebody at Honda was smiling and

nodding when they watched that because

we were already

>> Thank you for being on board what we've

been doing for the past, I don't know,

four years at least,

>> probably. Yeah.

>> And so we thought, gosh, this could be a

fun, efficient, great to drive hybrid,

and it didn't matter. Suddenly, even

though this does not fall within the

Paul specified limit of 250 to 600

horsepower, maximum is technically below

that. You're right.

>> It's below that. And yet, we still loved

it and gave it raves and it was enjoyed

like crazy. Yes.

>> So, third major point and that is

imagine you're the product planner at

Honda.

>> Mhm.

>> There's probably an army.

>> Yeah. There's probably not one there.

There's there's a room. There's been

meetings and a few a few memos went back

and forth and I guarantee you the Slack

channel is full.

>> Honda has told everybody the world with

the Prelude that there is only one trim

level. This is it.

>> There's not going to be a manual

version. They're not indicating there's

an SI and a Type R version of the

Prelude. But again, like I said, this is

not the highest performance two plus two

or coupe or fun performance sporty car.

It's the one down.

>> So if this technology in a front-wheel

drive car will be the lower cost, and by

the way, that Civic hybrid is 3250, 3200

lb approximately, if they can get this

at 3,000 or under,

>> we're good. Well, but but if they can

get it at 3250, I mean, let's be honest,

most sports cars are 3,300 and above

>> like fullon sports cars.

>> But with this styling, I think, huh, I

wonder if Honda is making the prelude

sort of like throwing a dart. It's like

a dart. Like what we love about the

Civic Type R, this the SI, the Veloster

N, there are some the Fiesta STS, all of

>> Yes,

>> they were great enthusiast cars. And so

>> I have

>> high hopes for this

>> and I am fighting against my initial,

well gosh, it should have just been a

direct competitor to a Toyota GR86.

>> Well, then everybody would complain. All

you you didn't lift a finger, Honda. You

just did kind of the same thing Toyota's

already covered. They kind of own that

market and you just wrapped it in your

styling and put a Honda badge on it and

you didn't bring anything new to the

table or push enthusiast driving

forward. But the last time the Prelude

was around, the S2000 was around. And

the Prelude, the Civic, and the S2000

did different things. If you're going to

really be Honda and you really want to

compete with the G86, this is not your

car. It never should be your car.

>> Correct.

>> It needs to be an alt to the Civic,

unique thing in the lineup, which this

suggests it will be. But I do want to

challenge Honda in one thing.

>> Okay.

>> The CRZ existed.

>> It did.

>> A hybrid with a manual. with a manual.

Yes. And I now having said this, in the

same way that the that Porsche I'm going

way back in. Porsche introduced the the

964 911 and they were like really

excited about their all-wheel drive

system. So the first year they were all

all-wheel drive.

>> Mhm.

>> This feels like we're going to do a new

sporty hybrid front-wheel drive and

they're all automatic because that's how

you release that car. We that like

manuals may be like where's the manual?

But the reality is the people that are

going to buy this,

>> 90% of them it's going to be their

commute daily. Mhm.

>> So that's not manual friendly. As great

as the manuals are from Honda and as

much as I would daily a manual from

Honda, that's not this market. This is

>> somebody, frankly, somebody that doesn't

want a Civic, but or a Prius, but wants

a hybrid to go to work. That's the

primary person buying this. It's not

those of us that love the Miata and the

Civic. I mean, and the and the G86. It's

actually not the primary buyer, I bet

you. So, if you're going to commute in

this, hybrid and automatic go together.

But if you have some sporty leanings,

we've given you in the S+. And again, we

haven't driven it. I don't know. But I

do think a year or two down the line,

Honda's proven, and they are the only

ones, to my knowledge, that have done

hybrid manual.

>> Yes.

>> So, it's not even like we're asking them

to go somewhere else. So, where's the

manual version of this in a couple years

or maybe the midcycle refresh? I think

that's still possible. Thank you for

brushing up against my third major

point, and that is the performance

version. There's no SI. There's no Type

R of this.

>> But whatever the S3000, the S2100, the

S20001, I don't care what you call it.

>> It's that coming. They're bringing the

Prelude back. They did it.

>> True. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And what is their next fun actual real

sports car? And they're redefining it

yet again because it probably would be

hybrid. Maybe it's manual, but now this

the technology is perfected to a another

level. They're talking about putting

this technology in future cars as well.

I mean, this is the CRV hybrid and Civic

hybrid running gear essentially with

some performance parts. I love that it's

a parts car. I actually embrace that and

yes to that. And then what will the

S3000 be? That is the rearwheel drive

that differentiates this in the

marketplace.

>> Also hybrid, very fun to drive, more

horsepower. Then we'll get back into the

250 to 600 range,

>> no problem. And I'm excited about this.

>> They're leaving the door open. You're

right. This is a commuter. It's still

going to be fun, but it doesn't compete.

It kind of creates its own new class.

>> It does. But I still think it'll be

interesting to put this against

interesting other competitors.

>> Absolutely.

>> Like 86 versus this. This has more power

than the 86 does. Less horsepower, but

more torque and is hybrid. How's that

feel? The Miata may be weird because I

expect this is going to be maybe a,000

lbs heavier than the Miata or close. Not

really a comparison, but the J86, which

is two plus two, is a definite thing to

compare here. Yep.

>> Frontwheel drive can be very fun. Yes.

As the way the average person drives, I

bet this is going to be quite fun

because they're bringing all, to your

point, all of the proper Frankenstein

parts have been brought over to this.

>> Yes.

>> I'm excited. And it feels so along the

lines of what we were kind of

>> dreaming about when we drove the Civic

Hybrid that I'm glad that the Prelude is

filling that thing we were envisioning.

I also hope the seats are good. It's in

the name. It's the prelude to the actual

sports car coming out in the name.

>> Let's hope so. Yeah, I like that. That's

good. That's good stuff. Okay, we're

going to move on from the prelude. You

guys had so many thoughts. We We dropped

these pictures. They weren't even our

pictures. You guys had so many thoughts

on that car was amazing. One of the

other funny things about all the Prelude

pictures that have been everywhere is

the fact they were shot in our backyard.

>> Yes.

>> A lot of places that we film were the

places where these were shot. All the

way to the point that when I go to our

first bit of news that I'm going to talk

about that I want to bring up, it was

taken at the exact same place. Okay. And

that is Nissan has performance news.

That's not something we say often, but

we're excited about it.

>> Yes,

>> the NISMO Z. This is taken, by the way,

at the exact same turnout of many of

those Prelude photos. I think it's very

funny. Anyway, this is taken obviously

in the fall. I pulled a bunch of photos

from Chance for this episode because I

realized a lot of the cars I'm going to

talk about this episode, Chance has done

really cool photography. So, I wanted to

do a shout out to that. And this is an

awesome, awesome photo of

>> the NISMO version of the Z that we had.

Now, there were two problems with that

car when it showed up. It drove like I

wish the base model drove.

>> Yeah,

>> it was quite expensive.

Those were the two problems because it

was it was it was touching $70,000.

>> Oh, there was actually a third problem.

>> The the third third thing was not a

problem. It was an unexcusable reality.

>> Okay. It's that's beyond problem.

>> That's worse than a problem.

>> Yes.

>> It was this is only going to be

automatic.

>> Yeah. because the transmission and

everything about the engine, it can't

handle a manual. That was the actual

Nissan line. It was it's not possible.

It wasn't it's coming. It wasn't we've

heard you. We rushed it. We thought

everybody like an automatic. The actual

Nissan line was it can't take it.

Well, what I like is that they've

decided that that wasn't correct. And

the announcement has happened that they

are actually going to release a manual

version of this car. And this is the way

you want the current Zcar. I think that

the current, and I'm a Zcar fan, but I

think that the current non-neismo

version is just too soft. The minute you

start driving it quickly, and we're

going to talk about GT cars in this

episode, the minute you start driving it

quickly, it drives much more like a GT

car. It does. That's supposed to be just

a GT car than any kind of sports car.

This can still do some GT things, but is

really sporty and was wonderful on a

back road. I loved it. We put it with

the Supra. We put it with the Darkhorse

Mustang. You can watch that piece on our

actual channel on this exact same

channel. In fact, if you're watching on

YouTube so that I am really excited that

Nissan apparently was wrong because it

can take a manual and the one is coming.

That's that's excellent news. I think

that's fantastic news. Other bits of

news, we have to talk about this. We

have to talk about the Audi. I'm sure

you have better pictures and better

thoughts than I do, but Audi has said

they have a replacement

>> for this is the same thing Lotus did.

Lotus had the beloved Elise and the

beloved uh Evvora and they replaced both

cars with one, the Amira. Well, what

happens when you replace a really small

car and a mediumsized car with a with

another car? That means it's no longer

small.

>> Mhm.

>> So, they've released this the concept C.

>> Concept C.

>> I have I have

>> super creative name.

>> I have many thoughts. Um but I'm sure

you have more thoughts and better

thoughts than I do. But we have to talk

about this Audi concept because they say

that this including this vertical grill

here is the new look of Audi's going

forward. They've got a essentially I

hate to say it this way, but it looks

like a lock screen on a phone with an

Audi logo at the top.

>> It's a it's a phone, doesn't it? The the

actual grill looks like a phone, a

vertical phone with a lock screen that

has an Audi logo where the time would

go.

>> Let me switch to a slightly different

photo. This is uh what I would consider

the money shot. M there's always a money

shot for every car whenever you're

simple surfaces.

>> For many years now, car companies have

tried to differentiate their products by

doing all kinds of shapes and a lot of a

very strong shoulder line and then a lot

of stuff going on the body side. See

Elantra type Hyundai.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Successful, busy, lots going on.

>> So So many of the Hyundai's are

ridiculously busy. A lot going on at

Toyota. A lot of stylistic elements

>> from Corollas all the way up to

>> You're right. You're totally right.

>> Everything. Sequoas. A lot of visual

busyiness.

>> You would could almost say noise.

>> Mazda tried it. Remember the Mazda 5?

That van with the stamping on the body

panel. Mini Minivan.

>> Mhm.

>> Everybody's tried it. But with this

concept, Audi is revisiting what I think

they're good at.

>> Now, that's not to say that I'm in love

with it. Okay.

>> What I was actually in love with was the

1991 Avis concept.

>> That was great.

>> Really beautiful. It hearkened back to

the auto union days, the type CND auto

unions.

>> And so I come back to this car. I think,

all right, beautiful, clean, crisp

surfaces. And

>> simple is hard to do. Simple is harder

to do than continuing to sketch and put

creases and lines and vents and scoops

and all the cliches.

>> Yeah. Yeah. This one has a lot of nice

bodyside sculpting. Yeah. But it's the

the termination at the front and rear of

the car that is not my favorite.

>> Okay.

>> Because it's directionless almost

>> and that's my problem with the new

Jaguar concept.

>> That's funny because a lot of people

have talked about, didn't this not work

when Jaguar did it? I've seen those

memes where people have like didn't

Jaguar try this and we all said no. I

don't I think this is better than the

Jaguar, which is a low bar. And I also

think that just across the board, this

is more interesting than the Jaguar, but

it the fact that even the comparison's

been drawn is damning.

>> Yes, it it's not good news. And it's

really it comes down to the front and

rear. I mean, proportionally, actually,

the Jag is a classic proportion. Whether

you like it or not, it's classic long

hood, short greenhouse.

>> It's the Mercedes GT we love so much in

silhouette. It's that idea. So to my

eye, this is a concept, but it doesn't

look finished just as the Jaguar does

not not look finished. But that Audi

grill on all the concepts over the years

has become distinctive. It's

trapezoidal. It is not rectalinear. Very

few cases it has been. Even on those old

sensual streamliner auto union cars,

>> it was almost an amorphous shape because

of the way cars were built. It was came

down to the production methods and what

you could and couldn't do.

But here I feel like a better mix of

something directional in the front that

shows speed that indicates some sensual

part of this because it's it's too all

the old '8s cliches bank vault tutonic.

It's too much of those. We've leaned in

too heavily

>> to make

>> a nice sculpted shape with some some

nice fender flares and the rest

>> we we've really gone severe. It's very

It's too severe. It's too clinical. It

doesn't feel emotional in any way. I see

severity here. I see

>> it's it's it's for the person with the

depression.

>> The super clean modern house where

everything is super clean, modern to the

point of having no warmth

>> without warmth.

>> Exactly.

>> That could be changed

>> very easily for a production to do some

directional kinds of shapes that have

been in Audi's history. But the front

grill, it's too simple. It's what you

have identified is all the apps on your

phone have gone to a flat solid panone

color.

>> Yeah.

>> There used to be depth. There used to be

interest to them and they've just gone

flat and boring and featureless. Yep.

>> There's no character personality.

>> But also this is apparently shared on

the platform that is the forthcoming 718

Boxster and Cayman platform. So of

course this of course Audi has this

natural evolution.

>> Sure. Yeah. about the same size. They

needed something to fill the TT and R8

gap. And this feels like the size in

between those two cars.

>> Somebody actually broke down the the

sizes and this is almost dead center

between the two. It's leaning a little

bit more R8, which isn't surprising, but

brings up something that I think about.

It's interesting that we're talking

about the 718 chassis because I have

something that I want to talk about real

quickly about this design that I was

fascinated by the moment I saw it. And

that is when they showed the roof

opening

>> because remember both the TT and the R8

were famous for being convertibles,

having convertible versions.

>> So this is a screen capture I'm showing

of the roof opening. What it actually

is, it's not a convertible. It's a

target.

>> They went over to Porsche and said,

"Hey, how do you guys do it?"

>> This feels completely like it's actually

built on the 911 target and they

actually took a 911 target and put a

body kit on it and released this. And

I'm not Please don't misunderstand me. I

understand this is how concepts are

done.

in order to get things to work, you

build it on other things.

>> I feel like there's been a lot of press

about this is the new TT and I'm looking

at it going

>> it's a 911 with a Audi body kit and I

hope they differentiate it further. But

the other question that I have is coming

back to your what the new Cayman is

supposed to be Cayman Boxer. Is that

what this chassis is?

>> Did Audi not see the train coming or

train leaving or however you want to use

the the metaphor. My point being here,

the market right now is struggling with

the fact that people don't want electric

performance cars. They don't even

necessarily want

>> electric SUVs of people do.

>> A very small handful.

>> A a Tesla Roadster kind of

>> if that's vaporware. I I think the

reality here is they are showing this

car off to a market who right now is

going, I'm not sure we want EVs. And and

that doesn't mean EVs should go away. I

still want to stand on the fact that

there is a lot of merit in EVs and a lot

of things EVs do well. But the market at

large is going eh on EV performance cars

specifically. Sports cars and luxury

cars are the places where other markets,

other brands are going, our customers

have told us universally they don't want

that. Into that world comes Audi with a,

hey, you want a TT and R placement? How

about an an EV? And I'm like, did you

get did you miss the memo? What

happened? H see that side view. I like

that long that really stronger.

>> No, the shoulder line is awesome.

>> It's just the front and rear that needs

some emotion to it because this is

featureless and emotionless and almost

looks production. Those mirrors look

production and the glass drops in the

door just fine. I want them to finish

this and I'm continually shocked

actually. The market has kind of had not

a turnaway but like a shoulder shrug

to EV performance cars. Could there be

varants? Is there a hybrid version? Is

there a gas version? The same because I

I guarantee you somewhere at Porsche

right now there are a lot of angry

meetings happening and there's a lot of

stress going on and people going gray

because they're trying to figure out

what do we do with the Boxster Cayman

who apparently already the Burblings is

just kind of really an EV box Cayman.

>> I had a conversation with our local

Porsche dealer Porsche of Salt Lake

City.

>> Okay. Yeah. And I talked to a saleserson

there, talked about the new 718 Cayman

Boxster. And this person told me, "Yeah,

your GT4 is not coming back." He said,

>> "What Porsche is indicating is there

will still be the performance, the GT4

RS, there's still quite a market for

that. Something like that would continue

in gas only version at the highest

performance level with a chassis like

that with four for GT4 class."

>> Sure.

>> Rules. Yeah.

>> So that could

casual conversation

the customer base

for the

>> you. You Paul, how many have you bought

now? Sorry. Go on.

>> That won't appeal.

>> They're looking at gaining an entirely

new customer base for the 718 Cayman

Boxster and therefore translating to the

Concept C, whatever the Audi version is.

And good news, Volkswagen can say, "Hey

guys, what are you doing? Can we have

that chassis?" And they'll build a cheap

version.

>> And don't forget about Bentley.

Bentley's going to say, "Hey, can we

coat it in leather?"

>> Interesting.

>> And Bentlfy it

>> bentify. I like that's good.

>> And kick it out the door and suddenly

it's a higher level of luxury even

though you should have bought the Audi

or maybe the Porsche. But anyway,

Bentley can offer something. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Maybe the same size, but have a new

product. and they're looking at

capturing an entirely different customer

as if the customer groups

>> don't even know they exist. It was

interesting to hear that from a

dealership perspective and what they're

expecting their new wave of customers to

be like.

>> Let's hope this Audi does come out in

some variation. The Prelude is coming,

which is actually very exciting. How

long's it been honestly until How long's

it been since there was a new model that

dropped and the enthusiast internet had

excited things to say at all? The fact

>> it's been a while.

>> Exactly. The fact that we're debating

how much enthusiasm is in the prelude, I

think is actually a win and then Audi

drops this and goes, "Hey, we're going

to make a new TT R8, whatever you want

to call it." I hope so. It needs to be

lightweight, but the surfaces suggest

heavy.

>> It's going to be an EV, it's going to be

heavy. It's going to be the better part

of 4,000

>> pounds. But for any lightweight

performance EV,

>> it needs to be as light as possible.

That's what manufacturers need to focus

the tech on because if that is truly

what's possible with the promise, we're

just it just doesn't feel like we're

close to being there. But if that's if

that's possible, if we can surmount that

that that uh was it the Polestar 6

concept that was also sports car like

was very

>> beautiful. The the entire world was sort

of like yes, could you build that? Can I

go buy one right now?

>> Where is that? Why can't I How can I

show renderings?

>> Yeah. Yeah, sure.

>> Oh, what do you mean it doesn't exist?

>> Yeah. More uh enthusiast parts bin news.

I want to go here. And that is I think

you've heard this. It's actually a week

or more old. And that is the Volkswagen

is saying that for the 25th anniversary

of the Golf R, this picture was also

taken at the same place little prelude

shots were done. Thank you, Chance. This

is a Golf R and they're saying that for

the 2027 model, which believe it or not

will be the 25th anniversary of the Golf

R, they're going to give it the Audi RS3

2.5 L inline 5 with nearly 400

horsepower. And I want to echo what's

already been said, ad nauseium, and that

is yes, please

>> bring

>> because the the honestly the biggest

difference right now between the current

Golf R and the RS3 behind the wheel is

the personality of that engine.

>> Mhm. Yes.

>> The RS3 has some flavor that the Golf R

in stock form doesn't have. So, let's

give it in hatchback shape that engine.

Yes, please. I'm sure it won't be

manual. It'll just be auto, but yes,

please. Anyway,

>> but the problem with that is you can go

buy a used RS3 with the same engine at

that point. When this comes out with

that engine, you can

>> new, it'll cost more than whatever the

used 2023 RS3 or 24 RS3

say, well, I actually have more space

and same engine and pretty much the

same, right?

>> But the difference is this will be king

of the hatchbacks. People will love it

because it's hanging in the hatchbacks.

It's usable. The Golf and Golf R have

always done a great job. GTI are having

a ton of space.

>> But if they put a manual in, oh, the

world would rejoice. and Volkswagen

would earn a point.

>> They probably would sell five alt

collectors is the problem. But anyway,

yeah.

>> Well, you also had the press car

recently, the Hyundai Santa Fe hybrid.

>> It came back, but in hybrid form

>> and uh you did a road trip, I think,

right?

>> I burned an entire tank of gas, which

took nearly 400 miles.

>> Good for you.

>> It was 30 30 averaged 30 miles to the

gallon.

>> I actually used it as Yes. I used it as

a support vehicle for one of my son's

mountain bike races, which meant we went

about two hours one way. And uh I hadn't

didn't fuel this car the whole time we

had it. I put grandparents in it and

chairs and coolers and all the stuff you

have to take apparently to watch a bike

race. Uh which you know, you know, I I

don't ever sit down. I'm walking around

the course, but we had chairs and

coolers and yes, absolutely. There were

snacks,

>> snacks and drinks.

>> The Park City Mountain Bike team, by the

way, throws down their food. They do it

big cuz it's a huge team. But but

anyway, but I'm walking around to try to

see. And in fact, we had a parenting

victory. We were at enough points of the

course yelling for our son when he went

by

>> that about four times in he looked at us

like really

>> really?

>> Yes. He looked at us on the bike like,

"Are you there again?"

>> Riding like, "Please stop."

So my my wife Kate has now started a

thing that she was to do when he gets

annoyed with her is she was to see if

she can run along beside him for a while

and go, "I remember when you were just a

tiny little baby just to really grind

him." She hasn't done it yet, but but

anyway, so so she and when he and here

was her new tactic when she starts to

annoy him by hollering at him from the

side from the sidelines, she stays

silent and recruits other people

standing around her like, "My son's

coming. Would you yell for him, please?

I'm just going to stay quiet."

>> Anyway, so we were successful parents in

that regard. But the point here is good

for you.

>> We took the Santa Fe and and I want to

we've driven the Santa Fe when we had it

last year. It wasn't the hybrid. We've

driven the Santa Fe before. We've done a

test drive on it. And I will be honest

in the fact that you and I are not fans.

>> I also think it's ugly

>> and it is beauties in the eye.

>> It's overlapping the bottom of the

Palisad market

>> and it's right on top of the market for

the Kia Telluride. And I think you're

better off buying both of those,

>> the Tellide or the Palisade than the

Santa Fe. Having said that, this comes

in hybrid. It gets great gas mileage.

It's very usable. It is a box to put

people in.

>> That is why the back is just this weird

boxy thing.

>> Volkswagen Vanigan. Just I see Vanigan

in the lights. The Van.

>> The big This is going to sound weird.

The big compliment I want to pay this

vehicle if you want to have one is this

is one of those vehicles you're never

going to think about.

That's that can be good. That can be

good.

>> You just climb in and it does the car

things. It has seats. It has doors. It

has

>> the whole yard.

>> It has technology

paint. A little bit of paint splashed on

it.

>> The point the point I'm making here is I

This sounds weird. I my brain was

solving problems while driving because I

was so unaware of the fact I was being

bothered by driving. I was off covering

other things. Oh, there's everything.

>> My brain was covering other issues. You

had those times in a car when you're

driving along and your brain is like

grinding on something and solving

things. If you're in a car that it asks

much much of you or reminds you that

driving is fun, you can get distracted

by the problem solving. I was problem

solving like crazy at this car and never

thinking about the gas because it was

just sipping at the gas while I had

grandparents and

>> a ton of stuff, snacks, drinks and

bikes.

>> So there is upside here. It is I I would

push you to Tellide or Palisade or

matching minivan minivan of similar

price personally, but I can't take away

anything and say it is bad. It's just

not I just don't think there's anything

compelling about it. But it is a

perfectly acceptable vehicle that will

not distract you.

>> Nothing Santa Fe is a Santa Fe except

for everything else.

>> Well, but you know, Santa Fe is supposed

to be kind of a quirky little place to

be.

>> Trying to come up with

>> this is not quirky. It's just it does

not live up to the name.

>> It's a van hybrid.

>> It's There it is. Yeah.

>> Since you're listening to us, you'll end

up shopping for your next car. And when

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cars. One search

for our topic Tuesday. I've been looking

forward to this one. We've been doing

lists of things.

>> And not only am I excited about this

list? I think we're going to have some

overlaps, but this list got me going. I

want one of these. Like I don't need one

of these. But we're talking about GT

cars, grand tourers. So cars that their

first purpose is not to be a sporty car.

cars you can drive cross country,

whatever your country is. But when the

road is fun, the car is still fun. A

Miata and a Lotus Elise are fantastic to

drive and are not grand tours. You don't

have enough space for bags. They're not

luxurious enough. They're not big enough

when you are driving along at 80 mph.

You're having to think about things.

Okay, got

>> grand tours need you need to be able to

just kind of fade back into the luxury

of it and have it be nice place to be

when the road is boring and awful, but

when the road is good, it doesn't let

you down.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> That that's my parameter. And I stayed

with under 50 grand and I also stayed

with less than 20 years old.

>> I was under 50 grand miraculously for

some of these choices, but also I'm with

you on the usually two-seater, two

doors. For me, Grand Tour implies two

doors. Despite every car company coming

up with, "No, it's a Grand Tour. It's a

It's a coupe with four doors." No, it's

not.

>> This is why BMW didn't make my list

because if you actually make one I

talked about I thought about the 6

series and the eight, but the problem

with both of those is there's the Grand

Coupe version that's essentially would

you like this in four doors? It's like

you no, that's not worth doing.

>> I I discounted that because that seems

very contrived to me. cars that are that

but have a sporty kind of bent, but

they're not necessarily track cars.

There's some gray areas here and there's

there's a bit of back and forth. There's

a lot of horse trading, we'll say, to to

actually get to what we want and how you

can use the car and actually for what

it's best suited for, I think, was my

headspace. And so, I'm going to dive

right in, please.

>> And start with the car that's at the top

of my list.

>> Designed by a fellow Art Center grad,

Ian Cartabiano. is his pest resistance.

The Lexus LC500 is on the screen in

beautiful red. Even though it's being

shown on a track here,

>> it is not a track car.

>> No, no, no.

>> I think the design is outstanding. I

think it's held up.

>> I think it's timeless.

>> And great news, everybody. I found five

under $50,000 on an AutoTist. That makes

the list. That that makes it that

justifies it. Five of them. Some of them

had high miles, like 80 to 100,000

miles. It's funny that you say this

because this is on my list too for the

exact same reason. And what I wanted to

identify is $50,000 is legitimately the

bottom of the LC500 market.

>> It is the

>> if you have

you can go find them. If you have

anything above $50,000, you have more

and more choices. This is I I do think

so. This is up there with the E type,

the '90s 300 ZX as those timeless cars

that that as they go on 20 years from

now, you go, those are just great

looking cars. This is that level of car.

I'm such a fan of the LC500.

>> I want to study little details. I want

to look at the proportions and then

study surfaces and look at details. And

there's constant interest for your eye

wherever it falls. As you study things,

it ends on something else and it leads

you to some other detail that's

interesting and engaging. It still feels

relevant. And this is an old car now.

>> It is. And and it has a fantastic Lexus

V8. We've driven this car a few times

and and honestly, we have been we've

been hard on it when you try to make it

a sports car.

>> Yes.

>> Because it has a ve a engine with tons

of personality and a chassis that just

can't quite keep up with what the engine

would like to do. But if you dial it

back like two notches from sports car

expectation and you and you take it into

that headsp space of, wow, this is great

at this because you didn't expect it to

be.

>> Yes.

>> Now it's amazing.

>> The weight keeps it from being a track

car. It keeps it from being a high

performance car. But that V8 sounds

great. Lots of power. The interior still

feels interesting and relevant. The

shapes there are

>> unfortunately the older style interface

on most car it did get upgraded with a

new interface but still

>> the surfaces just the beauty of this car

alone

>> and you know what this the steering

input ne you know it's not really the

most dynamic feeling car but that's not

why you buy it it's insulating

insulating you and you know people are

looking at you

>> this is so superb it's

>> every time you and I have one of our

meetups and we have another one coming

up soon someone brings one of these cars

Mh.

>> And every time they do, I just think you

did it right

>> because we always end up on great roads

on our meetups and we love doing that.

But there's also always transit time.

>> And you know, you're you will you will

have time on the the tightest roads at

the highest speeds. We're going to be

like, "This car is not loving this." But

that's an extreme situation. And and

I've been I've been on these road trips

in the reverse equation where I'm in the

road trip and I'm leading my in my Elise

and I have a few times when I'm cackling

with laughter because the Elise is so

great on this little back road. But the

rest of the time I'm like, you know,

it'd be nice to be in Lexus right now.

And if you told me drive cross country

in a car right now, this would be that

may be a whole other one we need to do

except spoiler alert. This would be one

of my top five. Like start at one coast,

go to the other coast. LC500's on that

list.

>> I'll add another category here. And it's

cars that are effortless at the miles.

Low speed, high speed,

>> effortless. It soaks everything up and

you feel like a human being at the end

of your trip when you get out.

>> And there's room a good GT car. There's

room to put stuff. Yeah. If you have a

spouse like mine who somehow you don't

understand how we have that many bags,

you could actually have a conversation

about taking an LC500. The Elise is

right out. There's a reason that my son

and I have taken road trips in the

Elise, and my wife and I have not, and

that comes down to where does the stuff

go.

>> Moving on to the next one here, and that

is the Corvette C7 Grand Sport. I've got

a silver one here on screen. And this is

so much fun to drive. We actually drove

one just recently on our Tale of the

Dragon road trip. You can find that

stacked up against a TVR Chimera.

There's a bit of a throughine front

engine V8, but the model, the Grand

Sport model, it has gobs of power,

>> but it's got a sporting character. And

that's why I I go back and forth. Can

you track this car? You could,

>> but there's more trackw worthy cars in

the Corvette lineup in the C7 genre than

this particular one. But this one is the

superb balance between grand and sport.

>> I agree.

>> It soaks up the miles. Very comfortable.

Lots of power. You feel like yourself.

It doesn't fatigue you.

>> Mhm.

>> It's easy to drive, but still engaging.

That's what a good GT car GT car does.

And this absolutely does it for me here.

Doesn't matter the transmission, but

great power.

>> You're two for two. I'm curious if

you're going to run the gamut of all

five of mine, cuz you're two for two.

Keep going.

We might just have different photos.

>> Good news, everyone. If you weren't

aware,

the 2016 Mercedes-Benz AMG GT is under

50 grand. Now, I must caveat that and

admit to you, I only found one for sale

under $50,000.

>> I found the exact same one. I looked I

put this as a wild card because I found

one. One,

>> a solitary one in the US,

>> but one counts. It had 89,000 miles on

it, which is high miles.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> But still, I cannot leave this off

because what a sexy looking car

>> and all of the aspects, the

characteristics that we've described of

good GT cars absolutely apply to this.

Could you track it? Sure. Are you going

to be made happier in something more

lightweight? Yes, you are.

>> Yeah. But we also drove one of these GTS

up against the Aston Vanquish from 2015

and a recent 2022 Ferrari Portoino M in

our road tours uh for going to Kota or

after Kota going to tail the dragon. And

so reminded me of just what a fun

special car this is.

>> And Chris who owns this the one that we

drove he actually drove it on track on

Circuit of the Americas and had a really

good day. But I think he had a better

time when we left the track and did

multiple days of road touring over to

Tour of the Dra Tale of the Dragon. I

think he had a better time then.

>> I like Tour the Dragon.

>> Tour of the Dragon. That's that's what

we're going to call it. We're going to

call our adventure there Tour of the

Dragon. Let's do that. I like it.

>> Okay. We may differ going forward, but

if we reset our headsp space about this

next car, I think you might be in

agreement. And that is the Nissan Z.

>> I did call it a Grand Touring earlier. I

called it a Grand Touring car

>> and specifically the NISMO version of

it. really strikes me as

>> you think it's that's the GT version.

>> One of the two. It kind of depends on

you could go the base model for GT.

>> You could go the base for GT, but you

could go NISMO a little bit more for I

just want a little bit more sporting

flavor to it because

>> we both also admitted the Nismo is how

the base should be.

>> Absolutely it should. So, I think the

Nismo actually wins out because it still

has the characteristics close enough to

be comfortable long term, but it has the

sportiness and sort of that onedge buzz

about it that makes you feel engaged all

the time, but it's not fatiguing to

drive. See, I I don't know you'd want to

spend a whole day in an ebo. I'd have to

drive it again and think about it a new.

Now, it's coming with a manual. Maybe we

can do that.

>> Maybe there's a third model that Nissan

needs to make, and it is right in

between. The Nissan Z Grand Sport,

>> the Niss, I don't know what it is.

I I lean more closely towards the Nismo

because it it vindicated everything I

wanted the Zcar to be because we all

thought, "Oh, the Zcar is just going to

be a great lightweight fun sports car."

[Music]

>> Could we

>> parse that out a little bit more? And

then this the Nismo comes along and now

that the manual has been announced that

should have been thought about. It seems

like

>> they waited for the whole world to drive

their car and then the whole world

suggested, you know, what it needs is

>> wouldn't this be cool?

>> Then they thought of it and then it

started production and engineering and

all that stuff.

>> There there's some grumpy engineer in

the corner at Nissan who was carry solo

carrying the flag for the manual. Nismo

must have a manual and now he's walking

around with an even bigger chip on his

shoulder going told you you know that

guy exists. He may there may be a whole

army of them. But anyway, yeah.

>> So, I also played with the idea from

BMW, an M4 or an M2. Landed on the

competition.

>> Okay.

>> And that is because what a great

balance. Can you track it? Sure.

>> Can you do all day in it? Can you

>> Can you go long distances? Can it saw

through the miles comfortably?

>> It's got that character like a Nismo.

still kind of on edge,

>> but I could say, well, maybe back it off

to a 240i, but still I want the M2

competition or maybe even the first gen,

the 2016 M2. I think that would be a

nice sweet spot. All of these are

successfully under $50,000, which is

great. I I think the M2 really shines

more as a GT, weirdly, than on track,

even though I've driven this particular

>> I think it's F87 on track.

>> Yeah.

>> And loved it. It's good on track, but I

don't think that

>> it was highly modified.

>> Fair.

>> But I thrashed the snot out of it and it

was just enjoyable. Just

>> hanging the tail out. It was just

predictable, fun,

>> but as it is, a stock, you know, base

car would be absolutely fun and you

could absolutely use it as a uh a great

GT car. That brings me to my wild card,

and that is simply because it is in the

name

>> and I struggled with this decision

because you might accuse me of Maserati

bias, and I would accept that happily.

>> Mhm. And you could say, well, you're

just saying what Maserati claims their

car to be. But, you know, the problem

with the Maserati I had was never the

steering and how it drove

>> or the engine.

>> It drove very well.

>> Those were never the problems. It was

everything else that was the problem.

>> However, I went searching and for

$25,000, a low $25,000, you too can find

very high mileage

Gran Turismos.

>> $25,000. Now

>> they are you can find one 50 60,000 mi

for 30 25 30 somewhere in there. But

that tells me if it's properly cared for

like most Maseratis aren't

>> aren't fair.

>> It will run for a long time. I found a

111,000 mi example for almost 20 grand.

>> That means the owner commuted in it,

drove it extensively. It was a 2014 I

believe.

>> Wow.

>> But maintained it and it ran.

>> Convertible or or hard top?

>> It was a hard Well, I can't remember. I

think it was a hard tub.

>> Okay.

>> But still,

>> this if you maintain it could actually

be enjoyable,

>> an exhaust note that is almost

unmatched.

>> Agreed. It's They sound amazing.

>> The engine again, the engine's not the

problem.

>> True.

>> Fair.

>> On the early cars, it was the

transmission, but here we've just got an

automatic.

>> And then the chassis, dynamically great

to drive. Again, it's a finicky Italian,

but if you invest the money into it to

take care of it now, you can find them

very inexpensively,

>> but even brand new, which you know, over

>> over $50,000, I the sketches for the new

one just grab my heart. I just I feel

like is actually

>> beautiful and those prices are

plummeting. So, those will be under 50

soon.

>> Yeah, exactly. Four or five years,

you're going to be able to get a newer

one, which is even better. I do like

that. All right. So, I I need to talk

about my five. And the reality is

there's a lot of overlap here. I have to

go here to an awesome photo from Chance.

And that is the last time we had an

LC500 here that was bright yellow and it

was killer. You said LC500. We've we've

waxed lyrical about it already, but

again, as far as GT cars go, this is

next to impossible to beat. It just

strikes me. I showed one in red and

you've got the one we had in yellow

here. One of the few large cars that

look great in bright, vivid colors. Yes.

Usually that's reserved for for small

sports cars.

>> True. And and this is one of this is why

this design is so great. This is one of

those designs that every color I've ever

seen it in, it is an attractive car. I'm

including blacks, grays, whites, all the

colors I don't like. It's still a car

that turns your head. You put a nice red

or a burgundy or a blue or a yellow on

this car and it's just like, what is

that thing? And I do think 20 plus years

from now, first off, it's a Lexus. It'll

probably still be running, but 20 plus

years from now, I think we're going to

look back on this car and people are

going to be like, "Those are amazing and

they're going to be desirable." Do love

it. It's hard to to knock it anywhere

but the top of the list for GT cars.

Five are available for sale in 50.

>> Well, you know, it counts. Yeah, we'll

see.

>> We're under the wire.

>> You said C7 Corvette Grand Sport. I

totally agree with you there. Now,

here's where our lists diverge. Okay.

>> The top of my personal list for GT cars.

Anytime you and I talk talk about used

GT cars, I have to go to Aston Martin V8

Vantage.

>> So, these are running what price-wise

now? This is an 0708.

>> Bring these are the This is the early

one, the '08. Bring 35 and up.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> So, that you can go find them like

crazy. Typically, the convertibles are

cheaper than the uh hard tops. That's

true of almost all of these kind of

cars. Uh manuals are hard to find, but

they are out there. A manual V8 Vantage.

This This exists forever on my personal

list of if I'm building a garage of

cars, this is on it. I want one of these

so badly.

>> Classic Aston.

>> I think this is alongside that Lexus as

going to look attractive 20 years from

now.

>> The the current Vantage I did not like

at all when they first introduced it and

they've revised it and now I got to a

place where I actually think I like it.

But this one turns my head constantly.

We had one of these early on in the

filming of our show in like 2010 or so.

We both loved it.

>> This does everything I think a grand

touring car should do. It has class.

>> It also has a little bit of sexy style.

It has performance. It has a great

engine note, but you're inside it and

just feeling like, oh, I just want to

sit here all day. Like, let's just where

are we going?

>> Aston Martin V8 Advantage. Again, this

is top of my personal list. I I'm a

little a feared of what these would be

to actually own and maintain, but I have

to tell you, I kind of want to try it.

I'd kind of like to have one of these.

I'd kind of like to have one of these as

a longtermer that we do some road trips

in because I like these so much.

>> See, I loved it when they stuffed the

V12, the 6 L V12 into this small

chassis.

>> Fascinating. Yes.

>> That I I have no idea what they drive

like,

>> but it really fascinates me.

>> It fascinates me, too. This This came in

two different V8 flavors. I'm going to

get it wrong. I think it was a 43 and a

46 or a 43 and a 47. They had two

different engine sizes over the course

of the lineup. The later engine

apparently is a slightly better engine.

I have heard that. Then they of course

they do the big V12. Now the thing

unfortunately I've talked to a lot of

people that have driven the V12 and

they've said that outside of the engine

note it's worse in every other way.

>> Too heavy. It's probably too much weight

on the front front axle.

>> Fascinating. But I'll just I'll take a

first year with a small engine. I'm fine

with it. V8 Vantage is top of my list.

But anyway,

>> I have to say 911. Really? You have to

Here's the thing. I feel like when

you're looking at GT cars,

>> if you're going to say Corvette, you

have to say 911.

>> Okay, fair.

>> Both the Corvette and the 911 are the

ones on this list that start to blur the

line toward you just bought a sports

car.

>> And we got a lot of commentary when we

put the C8 Corvette against the LC500.

And we expect and people are like, "This

is a mismatch." I'm like, "Not really.

Both of them are GT cars. Both of them

were designed around golf clubs.

>> Were designed around a sport.

>> Really? They both were different sport.

>> Yeah, they was in the press materials of

both of them. But at the same time, both

the 911 and the Corvette are actually

leaning more towards sporty cars than

just GT cars, but I can't ignore the

911. The problem with the 911,

>> besides the fact they're ubiquitous,

>> is that for $50,000, you don't have much

choice.

>> True. True. So, you wind up with two

options here. You wind up with some 996s

and some 997s. But in both cases, and I

hate to say this, it's probably versions

you don't want.

>> Not great colors,

>> base models, and those aren't bad.

Please don't get me wrong. We drove a

2005 997 base model in blue in our 50

years of 911. It was one of my favorite

cars of the film. It's still a very good

car. And the 997, which I'm showing

here, which is 05 to 2011, 2012,

>> 2012,

>> that that is my favorite era of the 911

anyway. But the ones that are out there

for 50 are they're just they're just

below 50 as some of these other cars are

and it's not the the 911 you were

dreaming of. But I can't ignore it

because in the world of GT cars, this

does qualify. That's fair. And

interestingly, a 911, a Porsche was not

in my top five list.

This bleeds too much into the sports car

category for me. Although it does prove

yet again the 911 is the best at three

things. It is

>> Yeah,

>> absolutely. A GT car. It can absolutely

be a daily and it's absolutely a track

car

>> for sure. For sure

>> in all of the variants and flavors.

That's why Porsche makes all those

different ones. But you're right. You're

kind of stuck with limited options to

include this

>> at the price point,

>> but it can do the GT car thing very

wonderfully.

>> Absolutely. I think it it does it in

some cases as the car gets bigger, it

leans more and more toward GT car. But

then the last of my five I think is the

car we're all sleeping on and that is

the Jaguar F-Type.

This is a chance model version that

Chance took of a heritage heritage

edition. But I don't care which version

you get.

>> Just go to Auto Tempest right now with

$50,000 as a cap. You have choice. You

have lots and lots of choice of these

cars. And I'm I'm showing an interior

picture as well.

>> This is a fantastic car across the

board. I think as enthusiasts, we are

sleeping on this car. We are ignoring it

and overlooking it.

>> Every time I drive one, I go, "This is

even better than I remember." Hm.

>> They just they drive. Here's the thing.

Is it the best thing I've ever driven?

No. Are the things drive drive better?

Absolutely. Is it a track car? Probably

not.

>> Not really. No.

>> But every time I drive it, I just go,

"This drives great. Jaguar just did it

well. They just And in a world where

past tense, yes, they did." But yeah,

it's sadly true. Here's the thing. This

is I would say as far as luxury is

concerned, 75% of the Aston Martin

Vantage experience.

>> Okay. But it's cheaper money and there's

options out there.

>> Definitely switch gear and materials.

They don't feel like the Aston Martin,

but you can go out and get these. And

there was a brief time when you could

get these in manual, which is amazing to

me.

>> Mhm.

>> Lots of engine choices, rear wheel drive

or all-wheel drive. Most of them have

got a um a six-speed uh automatic. No,

it's an 8-speed automatic because it's

the ZF, I think.

>> Yeah.

>> So, most of them got a really nice

automatic. They've got space for

storage. Now, it's got kind of a small

opening. a little bit less storage than

you might think, but space for storage,

luxury accommodations,

and the dynamics are just good. So, the

Jaguar F-Type, I can't ignore it because

I think it has to be here.

>> You're right. It was just a step below

some of the others that I felt it was

just like almost there, but the others I

felt like were just, you know, a little

bit better, a little bit more either in

dynamics or

>> maybe even switch gear. You know,

instead of old Ford Switch gear in the

interior, it's new Volvo switch gears. I

hate to say it this way, but the reality

is if you start cross shopping these

with a Vantage, the F-Type you're going

to get is going to be almost 10 years

newer than the Vantage you're looking.

>> It's going to be newer and probably a

better car potentially as far as if you

were going to run it as a daily or just

take it out on a road trip right now. I

would prefer the Vantage. I just have a

soft soft spot in my heart. But these

F-types are great. I have two quick wild

cards. Both of them you actually have

mentioned. Uh first off, I have to talk

about the uh

>> the AMG GT just barely just barely at 50

>> sexy car. And then I there's one there's

a there's a part of me that thinks that

you we don't have the money for a show

to do this right now, but there's a part

of me that thinks that we need to buy

30ish,000 GT cars and I need to find a

$30,000 Vantage and you need to find a

$30,000 Gran Turismo Maserati.

>> And I am I am terrified for both of us

about having long-term $30,000 GT cars.

>> I like this idea.

>> I I do too. I don't know where the money

comes from, but one thing at a time.

>> I want to drive that.

>> I know. I know you do. They're great to

drive. your your Maserati history. You

should own I think a convertible,

frankly, used Maserati Grand.

But anyway,

>> I need another reason to buy more

Maserati swag. I need a Maserati

t-shirt. This

>> I need to tease Maserati endlessly

again.

>> I those those are on my wild card list

because I don't know that you want a

Maserati Gran Turismo, but at the same

time, Paul wants a Maserati Gran

Turismo.

>> All right, thank you for all your ideas.

We really enjoy doing the top five

lists.

>> They're really fun. continue writing

your ideas to us and uh we'll look

forward to doing more in the future.

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For the first car debate, Matthew T

writes to us about replacing his dream

car because he's got a sports car-shaped

hole in his life. This story did not go

where I expected. It really doesn't.

Matthew recently sold a car that he was

would have described as his dream

forever car.

>> A 1982 Corvette that he spent two years

restotting, rebuilt engine with a

5-speed manual, and a lot of other

changes and upgrades.

>> Matthew kept it for eight years, loved

working on it, but towards the end

realized he wasn't enjoying driving it

that much, so he sold it. I I have to

stop here, Matthew, and and kind of

applaud you honestly because what what

nor the normal progression here is a

person like you like you buys a car that

they think is going to be their dream

forever car and then they do what you

did. they they build it out into their

perfect version and then if they don't

enjoy driving it, they never actually

admit it because so much effort was put

into the finding and the building and

the hours and the whatever that they go,

"Yeah, I don't I mean, I liked it. I'm

glad to have had this experience, but I

just I don't like driving it much

anymore." And but what happens is it

wind up it winds up in the corner of the

garage under a car cover with a bunch of

boxes on top of it because they can't

quite get rid of it because well I put

all the time in and it was the thing I

dreamed about and you've said all right

I realized I wasn't in driving it that

much and so I sold it. When a dream car

becomes a barnfind car.

>> Yes. That's that's the moment. That is

the moment. We can't possibly get rid of

it,

>> but I never drive it. And so 40 years

from now, we're going to find it in a

dusty garage.

>> Well, I thought this email was so

apppropo because Matthew is looking for

a sports car with a budget of $50,000.

>> There you go. Love it.

>> Doesn't have a ton of requirements,

mainly preferences, and that would be

rear wheel drive or rear wheel drive

based all-wheel drive.

>> Manual is strongly preferred, but

automatic means his wife could drive it,

which would be nice.

>> He prefers a two-seater, but 2 plus two

would be okay as long as it's two doors.

So far, checking every one of our GT

car.

>> Yes, we're doing well. Yes.

>> Matthew's 6'3. He's a big guy, so no

Miatas or anything too small.

>> Okay.

>> He's also an avid autocrosser, so

ideally something that could be

competitive, except he does admit he

uses his GLI DSG transmission, which he

could continue using for autocross.

>> Competitive necessarily mean this car

needs to go autocross. He could just

keep using what he's already got, which

I think you should actually. It's

already suited for it. It's probably all

already set up with it for autocross

with tires. I think you should

>> different task.

>> Leave that to the autocross.

>> And he doesn't want another Corvette. No

Mustangs, Camaros, Chargers,

Challengers, none of that.

>> All right.

>> He's got a fairly small car history.

Includes an a Ford Focus from 2007. The

manual he got in college and drove into

the ground.

>> Love it.

>> Like that. And a 2021 Cadillac CT4V,

which was totaled.

So, Matthew would love to have a new

experience. He's got lots of potential

cars on his list, including the usual

suspects like GR86, Cayman Boxster, M2,

Super Z4, F-Type, but he's open to other

ideas, especially any wild cards that we

might have.

>> Oo, I have a couple that he's not going

to see coming.

>> Mhm. I do love your BMW M2 idea. That is

part of my GT car list because you can

track it, but it really does shine. High

speed, on the road, comfortable.

>> But what's so great about it is it's a

little bit smaller. It's not so big and

heavy.

>> It's It's that right in between car,

kind of right on the cusp. So, I

encourage you to go drive any M2 that is

$50,000. Whatever price under 50 that

you want to to go drive. That is

absolutely worthy to go investigate, but

I also feel like

you need to really consider a 911

because we've now discussed it.

>> Mhm.

>> This is the car that you could

autocross. I don't want you to.

>> You could.

>> You don't need to really,

>> but this is the car that I really want

you to consider to look forward to

driving.

>> Now, I'm showing a 997.2 here. This is a

target, which would mean a more

expensive version. I actually do like

the target from this era. One of my

favorite targets. Yes.

>> Think it's absolutely a worthy

consideration. And as you mentioned

earlier, it does limit your choices in

the $50,000 range. However, if you could

just add 10 grand, the options actually

open up a little bit wider than you

might think. That's true. So, it opens

up a little bit newer cars, lower

mileage, and something that you could

just really make friends with. And and

your wife could drive it because you

could get into PDKs at that point.

>> True.

>> Which would be nice.

>> And I I think it would be absolutely the

thing that

>> we're switching from old Corvette to

much newer 911. It's the thing we keep

talking about and what

>> journalists have done forever as long as

these cars have been around. It's

Corvette or 911.

>> Yeah. True.

>> You're one of the two crowds.

>> True. Yeah.

>> Now you get to try both. So 911.

Absolutely. 50 55 60 somewhere in there.

I'm going to push on you a little bit.

So it's wild card territory, but not

really because this is the car I think

you should consider and I think you'd

really love driving it. Think of classic

interior. It's not so busy. It's it's

just all about the driving experience.

And so different car for you. It's a

completely different experience.

>> That's really good stuff. Bathy, I want

to talk about the fact that you've had a

lot of really good things on your list,

but I want to add a few. I want to list

your list, but at the same time, I

really want to jump right here to the

BMW Z4 coupe.

>> Oh, that's good. Cuz you mentioned the

Z4, the Supra, the 86, the M2, the usual

suspects. Very good usual suspects. And

I think you should drive as many of

those as you can find. But there was

this brief era in the early mid 2000s

when the Z4 came in coupe and it had it

was a greatest hits car. Engine of the

beloved E46, hydraulic steering, great

great profile shape, really a fantastic

looking car. I had the convertible, but

honestly the coupe remains one of those

cars that got away from me. It's just

such a really cool car. So, the Z4

coupe, another one you're not going to

see coming, but I thought about the fact

this beloved car you had was a 1982.

So, an old car.

>> Mhm.

>> You don't want any of the usual suspects

era.

>> Yeah. You don't want any of the usual

suspects of, you know, the normal muscle

cars from the US. It sounds like you

kind of want a completely new experience

that totally different, but you have

that older car history and love. I'm

going to say Nissan 300 ZX twin turbo. I

love that you're showing your car.

>> I'm showing my car because Bob's big.

>> I am because Chance has a fantastic

photo of it here of it on one of our

roadtrip films. But this legitimately,

if I had a bunch of money tomorrow, I

would call up the guy that bought this

car and try to buy it back. It is such a

cool car and it is it's right at that

tipping point

>> when old cars became new cars. It's

right at the fulcrum of that and these

hold up so well. It is a great grand

touring car. I wouldn't use it as a

track car. You're just going to beat on

it too much. But anytime you want to go

drive this car for fun, it is a fun car

to drive. But it has that older analog

feel that you have in your history, but

it feels a lot more modern than an 82

Corvette.

>> That's for sure.

>> So, I I think a 300ZX twin turbo with

your 50 grand, you could find options

all over the place. Don't even need to

spend close to 50 grand. You can find a

really good one. The twin turbo is worth

it. Find one that's been wellmaintained.

These are really, really superb cars.

While I'm staying in cars that I think

will surprise you. I know you're a big

guy. I fit in this one, too. The Honda

S2000.

>> That's smaller. Small bit smaller.

>> It's smaller. But you can fit in it more

than a Miata. I fit in this. I had a Z4.

I fit in it well. Honda S2000 is also a

totally different experience than you've

had before. I think you would like that.

I'm going to get into two wild cards.

Both of them don't work for different

reasons, but uh the first one I really

want to have it work for you. I'm trying

to think about unique experience. I feel

like the cars you've had and the cars

you're looking for are not something you

want to see a lot of, which is why my

choices are becoming this way. And that

brings me to the Lotus Evora.

>> Now, I've got an M2 in the background of

this shot, courtesy of Chance. But the

Avora is a wonderful car. The problem

with your $50,000 budget is at 50 grand,

you're getting base models from the

first couple of years. That's why it's a

wild card because the ones you want are

the 400 and beyond

>> at minimum an S from 2014 or so. But

what you probably want is the 2017 range

of the 400 and beyond. And that's going

to be 15 to 20 grand more than your

budget. And I'm actually showing a uh GT

here, which was the last latest and

greatest model. But an Evora is a

totally different experience than you've

had. And I think I mean it's Toyota

engine. I think you're going to love

having that car. And then a wild card

that I didn't even see coming until the

idea popped in my head.

>> Okay. All right,

>> Matthew, you're a big guy. You have

American cars in your history. You want

something unique, different. You got 50

grand to spend. You're not afraid of

tinkering on stuff. You're too big for a

Miata. A car that nobody sees coming.

It's not the most greatest car to drive,

but it gets overlooked. The Saturn Sky

Red Line. Really, I think the Saturn Sky

styling and especially the interior have

aged better than the Solstice. I think

the Solstice interior is terrible. It

wasn't great to begin with, but now it's

really bad. The Saturn Sky Red Line or

the Solstice, either one of those. You

get the turbo version. The Solstice is

the GXP. You get the the Red Line in the

Saturn lineup. This is GM's attempt at a

Miata competitor. And it doesn't quite

get there cuz it's bigger than the

Miata. Yeah. And it has the most useless

trunk in history. It's staggering how

stupid the trunk is.

>> Even compared to your Lotus Elise.

>> Oh, yes. The Lotus is usable by

comparison.

>> Wow.

>> Because the Lotus Elise, it's a tub.

It's like a normal shaped tub.

>> It's a small tub.

>> It's It's the size of your cuz I've done

it. It's RV sink of your standard actual

tub you would use to put stuff in. I

know that because the guy gave me extra

parts and we barely got it in there.

That's exactly the size of the trunk.

Okay.

>> The problem with this trunk is it's the

hatch where the top goes. The top

doesn't go down automatically, which is

stupid. And so it's literally the extra

space where the top isn't. And you had

to buy these special little like roller

bags. It's like the the rolled up

sleeping mats. That's the kind of space

you have. It's stupid. Yeah. That's not

good. But these drive better than people

think they do. They do. They do. They

are surprisingly good. Even in base

form, they drive pretty well. When we

first filmed a TV pilot for this show

almost two decades ago, we drove a

solstice

>> and we were pleasantly pleased with it

on camera. So, I think this is an utter

wild card. And the other thing I like

about this is this is the nicest one for

sale is half your budget.

Most of them are going to be 15 grand.

Find one that's been well-maintained.

You may have a little bit of a search

for parts on these, but you're never

going to see another one. They are fun

to drive. And because they are built, if

we think about it this way, they were

built for the Corvette owner

>> that kind of thinks he wants a Miata.

>> They're built for bigger people.

>> They're built that kind of GM in

general. Everything GM builds,

>> everything is bigger.

>> Bigger.

>> So, and this is a modern car. I know I'm

way into wild card territory, but it

never gets talked about. And I think

Matthew, you might be the right buyer

for a Saturn sky.

>> This not being a Saturn notwithstanding,

is this the first time that a Saturn has

been recommended

>> on this show? Have we ever recommended

Saturn?

>> It might be the first time.

>> And it's not a Saturn.

>> It's not. It's Opal. The Opel Sportster,

or whatever they're called, Roadster.

Yeah.

>> Pontiac GT. What?

>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

>> Pontiac Solstice.

>> Solstice GT. Yeah.

>> Saturn Sky.

>> Saturn. Mhm.

>> Forgot about that.

>> Yep. Had a cool logo. Uh had a cool

premise. Didn't make good cars. This is

pro maybe the only one.

>> I told you that story long ago when all

the Japanese engineers at Toyota, Honda,

they all bought a Saturn.

>> They were worried

>> as the competitor like Yeah.

>> and tore it apart and burst into

laughter.

>> Yeah. The They thought the Americans had

figured it out until they took apart a

Saturn and decided, "No, no, we're doing

fine."

>> Car conclusions. Topic Tuesdays. Car

debates. [email protected].

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Our second debate is where this episode

was spawned from. Peter M writes to us

and asked and gave us this this idea to

cover $50,000 GT Grand Tour. So Peter,

thank you for suggesting this. He says

GT cars to him are reasonably quiet,

travel long distance without fatiguing

the occupants. Long large luggage space

for two people. So I hope we covered

those requirements, added a few of our

own. And Peter, really appreciate you

writing. and he's got an email debate of

his own because he currently owns a 2022

C8 Corvette convertible.

>> He likes it, but he's not in love with

it.

>> Interesting. Yeah.

>> When he attends track days, he brings

the pop-up canopy that folded into its

case measures 4T high by 8 in wide, 8 in

deep, and that's all that fits into the

Corvette's poorly insulated rear trunk.

So, golf bags and Peter's popup pop-ups.

Yes. Uhhuh. says, "Carsors like the

Supra or GR86 might work. And reading

your email, I'm keeping in mind that you

probably are going to want to track this

car."

>> Yes,

>> the GR86 only has Alcantara in the

interior and eliminates it. So, what

happened to leather? Well, it's the

price point that happened to that car,

not leather itself.

>> Supra does not appear to have a large

enough trunk for the canopy.

>> Maybe an M2 BMW.

>> We've suggested a lot of M2s, and yes,

M2s, we thought would work for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Mhm.

>> He also thought about something like an

older Aston Martin V8 Vantage.

>> I love them. They're so great. Yeah.

>> He's apprehensive about repair costs

there where to have it serviced.

>> And he says also Jag F-Type could be

nice,

>> but Jaguar is on pause for

>> the world. I think everybody's just

people are holding their breath. Let's

see what happens here.

>> And he says the Corvette also spoiled

him to having an HUD heads-up display.

And Peter,

I'm going to really pull you out of your

budget zone and your comfort zone for

this one.

>> Oh, I like it. Good.

>> Yes. To the M2.

>> Mhm.

>> But I'm going to just go for it.

>> Okay. I I like what you just moonshot

it. I'm toss out the budget and go,

here's what you really want.

>> Because it feels like to me

>> you're

if we suggest any of the the usual

suspects, any of the cars that we've

been talking about, you'll like them for

about 11 minutes. Okay,

>> I got it.

>> Don't get me wrong, I'd love to own any

of them, but for where Peter's coming

from, he likes but does not love his

2022 C8.

>> Sure. Yeah,

>> it's a great car. That can be a GT car.

>> Absolutely.

>> That's absolutely a track car.

>> GT car. Yeah, for sure.

>> But I think you need something that

you're going to scratch your head and

say, I can't believe that I own this

>> and I'm going right for a Lotus Aura.

What I'm showing on screen right now is

the 400. You are right. 2017 400 and up.

>> The problem is only base Evoras, not

even an S is available for $50,000 and

under. Yes.

>> So, you're going to have to go S. But I

thought Peter's not going to want an S

if we're going to go to Lotus Aora.

>> Mhm.

>> Forget the base. Forget the S. Let's go

straight to 400, 410, 430 overseas, but

GT

>> GT at the top end. I would love that car

really got good. If I could make your

budget one and a half times and let's go

straight for the GT, but I'm starting

only with the 400 because also

excellent, but

>> really the GT is the one you actually

want to go buy and this is the car that

I want you to put miles on. The one that

you you won't be able to believe that

you have

>> and your friends will say you got a what

now? Toyota engine.

>> For sure. Yeah.

>> Hopefully that alleviates most of your

fears about maintenance, where to have

it serviced.

>> Toyota engine. Mhm.

>> But the performance, the joy, the sheer

joy you are going to have, you're going

to look forward. You're going to create

excuses, as we should all create

excuses. Are we out of milk again?

>> Why do you keep pouring milk at the

sink?

>> Yeah.

>> Create an excuse to go drive the car, to

figure out a road trip, to bring it to a

track day. You can track it. It can be a

GT car. And then I arrived at the tent.

>> Oh, okay.

>> The back seat.

>> True. And also

>> the back seat. This This has a larger

trunk than you think.

>> It does, but slide it across the back

seat.

>> Yes. Perfect.

>> That's where the canopy goes.

>> Absolutely. All day long.

>> Solved.

>> I've spent way more than you were

expecting to. But also, any of the other

suggestions that we can make? Stay under

$50,000. Uh, okay. I'm almost there. But

I want you to have the car that you just

Oh, yes. I overspent and I'm so glad I

did. And that's Peter, what I think

you're actually saying in your email.

>> That's really good. I do like that. And

and for once, I didn't actually

recommend a Lotus. I also want to say

this to you. The uh the Corvette, I

think you're going to appreciate how

really versatile that car is after you

get rid of it.

>> It's really hard. Honestly, it is

incredibly hard

>> now that I don't have it

>> to buy a car that is as versatile and

still successful at doing as many things

as the C8 Corvette. Now, the fact that

it is so versatile is one of the things

that keeps it from being like a 10

>> because it's trying to be so many

things. It's doing all these things at

like an eight. Yep.

>> Okay. And that I think is one of the

reasons why it's hard to fall all over

in love with the car.

>> But anytime you and I drive ours, and

ours actually is available for sale

right now at about $60,000, low 60s,

which is actually kind of the bottom of

the market, and ours is in phenomenal

shape with a couple of sets of wheels.

So, contact us. We're happy to talk

about it with you. But every time either

one of us drives it, we get out of it

going, "What a great car."

>> Mhm.

>> Because it is again an eight in

everything you can imagine. And that

takes away a little bit of the, "Oh my

god, I love this." But it just works.

And I think once you get rid of it,

you're going to be like, "Yeah, the

Corvette really did whatever." So well,

so I'm just cautioning you on that.

>> The big thing I want to say to you,

Peter, is not even recommending a car. I

want to say this and just kind of

challenge all of this because we see

emails like this often. I would like to

get car X, but the dealer is this amount

away.

>> Oh,

>> or if I ever drove it cross country,

who's going to service it? And I think

we keep ourselves out of good cars by

that thinking.

>> Because the reality is, if you're going

to have a fun car and you're going to

take it anywhere

but down the block from the dealer you

bought it at, you're going to wind up

somewhere where the car needs something

and a dealer isn't close. Even a

Porsche. You take a Porsche on a

cross-country road trip, you're going to

wind up like we have in middle of

nowhere American time towns where they

haven't even seen a Porsche, let alone

know how to service it. We're keeping

ourselves. The only way, honestly, the

only way to buy a vehicle where you will

always be near a dealer is a Ford F-150

or a Chevy Silverado. And that's the end

of the discussion. Even a Corvette, you

can take it into some Chevy dealers

like, "We don't see any of these."

>> Seriously,

>> we don't even stock oil filters. And and

here's the other part of the equation.

>> Even dealers often get it wrong. I want

to come to a direct conversation. We've

been talking about the Merc GT, the

Mercedes GT on this podcast. We recently

drove that one that Chris owns, 2017

blue one that we had on our Kota

roadtrip series. And part of the story

of that car when Chris bought it, he

bought it from a 90some year old car

collector who sold it because the

suspension always felt a little stiff.

And I first drove it when Chris bought

it and thought, "This is stiffer than I

remember." But okay. We drive, but we

drive a lot of cars. Okay.

>> Chris got it home and got a

post-purchase inspection on it, which we

don't recommend it. And he knew that.

Got a post-purchase inspection. And the

person doing the inspection, I don't

even think was a Mercedes dealer.

>> And they found shipping blocks still in

the suspension, which means the first

owner had only ever driven it with the

shipping block still in the suspension,

not having been removed when the car

came off the boat. Now, this means that

the car that they paid a lot of money

for from Mercedes went to a Mercedes

dealer.

>> Yeah.

>> Who didn't know the car well enough to

remove the shipping blocks and gave it

to the customer that way. And that is

not a one-off. We have heard that

situation on all kinds of cars. The

point I'm making here is we think the

dealer is the all knower, alloer of the

car we question and we buy.

M

>> and sometimes, and I've had this

experience, and I have a good experience

with the Lotus dealer here in Salt Lake,

>> sometimes you will find a tech at your

local dealer who is a godsend, and they

are amazing, and they know everything

about the car you're talking about.

>> Y,

>> but you may go to your local dealer and

they're like, "We never see these. I've

never worked on them." And they can pull

up the manual, but this is the first one

they've ever seen. So, my recommendation

to all of us is buy the car that you're

interested in and take it to the

mechanic you trust.

I don't care what's over the door. I I

don't care what it says on the sign. I'd

much rather have a mechanic that I

trust. Because the other thing that's

happened by by this point, and I've

actually had this happen with my Elise,

there are so many do-it-yourself videos

online about how to change X in random

car that you get a skilled mechanic, he

can find the walkthrough, but they're a

skilled mechanic anyway.

So the the days of only the dealer can

service this car, I think that's behind

us. In some cases, the dealer might not

do it right.

>> So buy the car, take it to the mechanic

you have that you trust, and also take

it cross country and realize you're

going to be in the middle of nowhere and

I don't care what you're driving, they

can't service it right now.

>> That's excellent, guys. Thank you for

all your questions. Really appreciate

it. Write to us everyday.

Drivertvmail.com.

Topic Tuesdays, car conclusions and car

debates.

We're going to hop to questions because

we're flying through. You guys are

awesome on questions. We posted a brand

new car in the Prelude and you blew up

with questions. We've covered the

Prelude already. Many questions.

>> So, we're going to jump to other things.

I'm going to jump right here to

[Music]

Espagen 86. I totally butchered that.

Sorry. Looking at Z4s, would you go for

a 2015 hard top, which is a second gen,

161,000 mi, or an '04 soft top with

53,000 mi? Both priced the same. both

manual, roughly $14,000. It's gonna come

down to who is the owner and what is the

service.

>> I think you go with the older one

personally because 53,000 miles on an04

soft top, if that's been babyed and well

taken care of, that car is going to run.

160,000 mi on a 2015, it's a 10-year-old

BMW. There's parts that they're going to

start wearing out, like all the plastic

stuff they put in the cooling system.

Probably is going to need to be

replaced. Probably true of both of them,

actually. Exactly. But the the key thing

here is going to be ownership and

maintenance.

>> On Facebook, Nate asks, "What car has

had the biggest difference between your

expectation versus reality when you

drove it? For better or for worse?" I am

going to answer this by not answering it

and use it instead to promote an

upcoming piece that we have shot that is

lightweight sports cars, including the

Alpine A110 GT, a Lotus Elise like

Todd's.

>> Like, yeah. Not mine. Not yours. For

once. Yeah. and an Alfa Romeo 4C. Now,

these were sports cars in our minds that

are all lightweight, the go-to sports

cars, and it gave us an opportunity to

drive them yet a new with a fresh

headspace against a car we never

actually thought we would get to drive,

and that is the Alpine A110 GT. True. So

all three of those thanks to Ben the

owner who lives in France and he had

this Alpine A110 in the US for summer

2025 and we got to drive it on our road

trip to Kota and also for this

particular film. We're very excited to

share this film, but I don't want to

give any spoilers away. So instead, I

will say look forward to this piece and

your question absolutely will be

answered.

>> I like it. I'm actually going to answer

Nate's question with a couple of actual

cars. I love that you're talking about

that piece because it's coming up on our

like edit to-do list that I'm very

excited about. But we got some really

good footage. But Nate, okay. Biggest

difference between expectation and real

reality when driving a car. I'm going to

give you three that exceeded my

expectations walking up to them. The

Fiesta ST.

>> Oh, that's good.

>> I'd heard it was good. And I was like,

"Yeah, but have you seen it?" It's a

Fiesta ST. I mean, I

>> because around that time, for another

reason, we'd had an opportunity to drive

a base Fiesta ST and I was like, "Okay."

>> Mhm.

>> I mean, sorry, a base Fiesta. And I saw

it so the the base fiesta was so very

marginal that I was like an ST really. I

mean how good can this be?

>> How much better is it than

>> seriously? I you know you've got to be

kidding.

>> Yeah.

>> And every time I drive one I love it.

Every time I drive one I think how cheap

are these? They're so great to drive.

They look quirky. They're very cheap

inside. All there's all these boxes

stacked against it where you're just

like that can't be fun. You drive it.

Go. No. No. That's just great.

>> Be a great winter car. Winter tires on

that thing. Oh my gosh.

>> Handbrake turns everywhere.

>> The current gen boxy, bulbous, weird

looking BMW M2.

>> Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

>> It's like really everything about it,

the stats, the look, the weird Samsung

screen in the interior, the crazy cost,

all of the tech. What are we doing?

Weighs way too much. And I got in, it

was like, this drives brilliantly.

>> It drives so well.

>> I could imagine owning

>> it. Drove Well, here's the thing. It

drove so well. It annoyed me cuz I was

like, "What? What are you doing? You've

so defied all of the logic of what's on

paper. What are you doing over there

being what weird magic are they doing? I

don't want that car to drive that well."

I have to say it. I don't want it to

drive that well. It drives so well and

it looks so ugly and I do not want one

at all. But my god, they're good to

drive. Another one. First gen Porsche

Panamera.

>> Oh yes,

>> ugly. Just just I'm sorry. Just straight

up ugly. What is going on? and you let

that leave the factory looking like

that. You walked out of the house

dressed like that. I just it's just they

were like, "We're going to start selling

this." Really? And it was also at the

area where Porsches Porsches decided

finally decided to make a four-door

sedan and it looked like that.

>> Can we not walk away from the 911 any

further? Can we not just go what does it

need to look like? And part of the

reason it looks so bad is because there

was a mandate that people over 6 feet

tall needed to fit in all four seats.

And my first experience was actually as

a passenger with three other six-footers

in the car and I was like, what is

happening here?

>> That car

>> design brief worked drives amazingly

well and looks awful and only got better

in looks. But those three I have to say

defied all my expectations and I'm

wowed. A slightly related question on

Instagram. Richard asks if there's a car

that we've driven that other drivers

were loathed to let pass. This is great.

>> Yes. A Miata. Any Miata at any time. I

can hold more speed through the corners

than you can. I just can.

>> And a Miata, that tiny little thing. The

problem is every other car, including

old Accords, is faster on the

straightaways.

>> Yes.

>> So, Miata, absolutely. Drivers don't

want to let Miatas pass on the road, on

the track. I don't care.

>> I'm not letting that thing by. Even

though just I'm not I didn't call your

baby ugly. I'm not, you know, I'm not

here to insult you. Just please let me

pass. Yeah,

>> I'm faster.

>> That's I think every Miata driver.

>> I think that's fair.

>> The second part of the question is, is

there a car you've owned or driven that

other drivers seem eager to let you go

buy?

>> Yes, there is.

>> You just actually had one with the

Toyota Tacoma or Toyota Tundra.

>> Yes. The big Tundra. Yeah.

>> The giant grill. Mhm.

>> Any Charger and Challenger that I've

driven, especially with the Hellcat

version,

>> traffic parts just magically.

>> Yeah, that's a good point.

>> It just parts because they see that

menace.

>> And weirdly, my GT4, I'm experiencing it

quite a lot.

>> Really,

>> the quad LED daytime running lights.

>> It looks kind of menacing. It's a low

sports car and it looks

>> severe. It looks very serious. serious

sports car business coming up behind

you.

>> And I've had quite a few people just,

are we in Germany? What just happened?

That's funny. It's great.

>> I agree with you.

>> I'll take it. I agree that those are

really good. Richard, I'm going to say I

can give both sides of the coin here

because I think I'm going to expand on

what Paul's talking about with a Miata.

It's any fairly affordable small sports

car because the Elise I I may be bright

safety yellow and they're not getting

over. They don't care. And in in many

cases, and this is where the other side

of the equation comes in, in many cases

when I drive my Elise, and also when

I've been driving Miatas, and sometimes

with something like a G86,

>> the cars that roll cold, the big lifted

trucks will hunt you down proactively.

I've had it happen multiple times to me

while driving small sports cars. The

flip side is if you drive a large

pickup, a big, you know, billboard

fronted pickup,

>> it is amazing how people, except for

other pickup trucks, people just decide

I should be out of your lane.

>> Yes,

>> you were in my my mirror and I need to

not have that not happen anymore. And

that is very true. Whenever we get a

large pickup, I subconsciously notice

that because I'm conditioned the other

way. And so I'll be driving a pickup,

running an errand. I I I was recently in

this Tundra with my wife and we were

driving somewhere and we were just

having a conversation about nothing to

do with the truck or the trap, nothing.

And she suddenly went, "I should get one

of these." And I said, "Why?" And she

said, "Because people just keep getting

out of your way." And we were just like

red sea was parting as we drove.

>> It's menacing to have that billboard

with lights behind you. It's time to

move.

>> Yeah. Guys, thank you so much for all

your questions. We really appreciate it.

Looking forward to continuing the top

five lists, continuing car conclusions.

We ranted about the prelude way too

long. Deserved it.

>> Yes, it did.

>> And we're looking forward to next time

as always. Cheers, everyone.

[Music]

Top 5 GT Cars - Most Fun Under $50K, Sports Car-Shaped Hole, Does The Dealer Always Know Best? | Episode 1,011

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