Top Gear ORIGINAL Producer Jim Wiseman: How Chaos, Failure & Luck Built Britain’s Biggest Car Show

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The first American trip kind of finished me off. I was so knackered and

tired and I didn't know it at the time but I was basically burned out.

Jim, you've been part of some of the best TV in the world.

What is it really like working with Clarkson? Quite a bipolar experience. It's the best

time and the worst time. All rolled into one.

Princess Diana had one of these.

We got this guide to the fat stick and then fat sticks over the top of me.

Boy, fat stick, get back in your box. I cast you two weeks ago.

I've been on a plane and I don't want it to land. I pleaded with the owner and he was like,

no, Jeremy turned up, you know, and there would have been a lot of trouble.

Jim, you've been part of some of the best TV in the world. Well, some say in the world.

But what is it really like working with Clarkson? I know you hate that question.

I do hate that question. It's on a knife edge. It's quite a bipolar experience is what I'll say.

So essentially, it's the best time and the worst time. All rolled into one.

And you're only over five minutes away from either. That's what I'll say on it.

How much do you get asked that question being part of the talk?

Somebody knows that you were part of that original team that made up one of their childhood

favorite shows, maybe midlife crisis favorite shows. Are you just asked that constantly? Weddings,

birthdays? To the point where it got so bad when I was working on it that at weddings,

and I was in that phase of my life where everyone was getting married and you'd get

stuck on random tables with random uncle, whoever. And so I would just lie and say if they say,

oh, I heard you work in television because someone will go, oh, I said, oh, yeah,

no, I fit satellite dishes. And then that would just stop the conversation.

And maybe someone would ask me about my ladder and I'd bullshit my way through that.

But that's how bad it got because literally everyone always knows it was basically what's

Jeremy like and who's the stick. And this sounds really first world problems,

but it became a little tiresome after a bit because all people wanted to do is to say that

they'd met someone and that I hear he's, you know, this and that. And that's what I hear.

So it's all like very middle class gossipy stuff. But at the same time, it's strange and

flattering all at the same time that people care that much and overanalyze it because it's

become it's become this kind of weird thing. It's like, like this, you know, like, like,

like people go, oh my God, you've got a stick crush on it. And it's kind of like, yeah,

yeah, I have because it's a place where it's no different. It was a leaving gift.

There's no different from getting like a carriage clock if you've been 30 years at a bank or

something, you know what I mean? But it's flatter. It's weird because it's stuck in people's minds.

And so which is which is a which is a lovely thing. And it's I've gone through my PTSD periods

and I'm coming out the other side of doing things like this and actually going actually,

wow, how the hell did we do that? So it's all swings and roundabouts, isn't it? But I suppose

the bit that must have got tiresome is when you work on something so big and we're going to go

through today because when you've actually sent me because there's not much about you online,

but when you actually sent me some of the things that you've been involved with and done, I was

like, oh my God, you did this, you literally just casually mentioned as we got in the vans. I was

on that shoot with Max Verstappen and Chris Harris in the Ford. I think that's one of the best

films ever made. Oh, thank you. But that top gear question, those top gear days, the fact that it is

the biggest motor and show you ever existed. Yeah. Do you get annoyed that that almost defines you in

the car world a little bit in terms of a first question perspective? Yeah. Yes and no, you know,

it's opened doors as much as it's been annoying, you know, so it's kind of like it's it allowed me to

then work in F1, which was my which was my first passion, you know, not that into road cars,

you know, I have my favorites, but I'm not. In fact, I remember having my interview

in 2002 and Andy Wilm was like, are you into cars? And I kind of said, I am, but I'm more into F1,

but I'll just, and this is how long ago it was, I'll stop reading auto sport magazine, I'll read

auto car magazine, you know, that's how long ago it was, right? And that's what I did. And weirdly,

when I left Top Gear for the first time, because I knew every car that was coming,

like a year, eight months down the line, this car came down the street that I didn't know about,

a new car. And I was like, oh my God, what is that like a childlike again, because I wasn't

constantly knowing everything that was coming out, you know, so you go, I've seen the concept car

that oh, you know, but to see a new car that was just completely new, it was quite a thrill again,

having not had to be involved in it. So when you've been involved in that show,

those experiences and then everything that we've leaked on that follows, if you were to

describe yourself so in your own words, who are you and what you do? How would you do that?

I would describe myself as a, for mostly a producer and director in TV branded content,

commercials, whatever's available. And also, but now a podcaster as well, I suppose,

because of Midweek F1, which is a joy. And I'm kind of enjoying the way that the industry's going,

which means stuff like this, you know, we were talking before the record about what a joy

podcasts are, because for me, they're so much simpler than sending a mini down the ski slope

with rockets on the back, you know, that's sitting here and chatting and having nice

time is a lot easier than doing that. But obviously, the rewards of doing the big stuff

is great, but it comes with a lot of stress. See, my inspiration for podcasting is actually linked

to Top Gear. I think so many people's things that they now do have got some weird way it links back.

And for me, I was so captivated by how they could get a guest that wasn't necessarily

into cars and make it a car related chat over that point. And that's why I've gone on to have

people like Colin Furze on the podcast who sort of more from an engineering perspective,

somehow it still links and people love it. And we've got some guests planned next year that are

kind of in that sphere, but it shapes and molds everything that we do. And we look and idealize

everybody that was on it and around it as these heroes, these kings of television.

But your story of being part of that journey would not only the iconic trio, but the producers

before them actually started with tea, right? Yeah, it did. It did. Yeah, so weirdly,

yeah, I first 18 months was tea making. And so it gave me a decent

round of view of the industry as it was. So I made tea in post-production and then I made tea

in production. So I got to know a little bit about the editing process through making tea there and

then the production process. And they're two quite different or they were, all the one now,

which is much, much easier. And so that stood me in good stead really. And one of the last

tea making shows I did was Clarkson's chat show. So I was, so my love for Top Gear comes from the

previous era, which was made in the Pebble Mill. So my hero is growing up with three that obviously

you had Hammond May and Clarkson. Mine were like Clarkson, Quentin Wilson, he's sadly just left

us and Tiff. And they were like the cool threesome because there were other presenters as well.

I must spend like Vicki Butler-Henson as well, superb. And that was my Thursday night. So

Top Gear always used to be Thursday night. And when I was a teenager, that was the thing, right?

So fast forward to when I'm on making tea on the Clarkson chat show, I'm like, oh my god,

it's Jeremy. You know, Jeremy comes in, he's, you know, bombastic and all of that. And then this

other guy comes in, and I recognized him too, because he used to present on old, and that was

Andy Willman, right? And it's like, that's that guy, that's the other person, that's Andy Willman,

but like a really sweary version of him. I just remember him coming in and swearing all the time.

So he was like an AP or something. It was kind of middle management on this show.

And so that was a huge thrill. And it went really well. And I was getting on with them.

And then unfortunately, Jeremy got papped in the, in the day mirror. All I'll say is

giving the, the exec producer an ear, nose and throat examination in the back of a cab, right?

So, so that was in the tabloids. And then there was a little bit of kind of, you know,

who leaked that, who, who tipped off, you tipped off the patch. So it turned a little bit, you know,

dark towards the end. And then it wasn't recommissioned. And that was, I think it was

the third series of that. So, but Jerry, and this is the thing, and I don't, you know,

this was the weird thing. So Jeremy, and back in those days at the BBC, larger, the presenters

had this thing called a golden handcuff agreement. So they paid them a load of money, but they only

could do BBC shows. And Jeremy was on the golden handcuff thing. And he was halfway through that,

I believe, when this series got canned. And at the same time, so during or just after, I think,

the old Top Gear and Pebble Meal, the Birmingham iteration got, got canned as well. So, so Top

Gear was, God, it's kind of like it is now it's been put on ice, right? Because everyone thinks

there was one iteration, as the masses tend to think that one iteration before the guys,

they knew there was percentages before. And then there's probably like a 20% of them kind of remember

it. But there was actually two iterations of Top Gear before the iteration, as we know it, right?

Yeah, I mean, it was an omnipresent, it was it was constant. So it started with Angela Rippon

back in like 77, I think. And then it ran all the way through the 80s and the 90s. And then

2000s, it got obviously a bit tired. And it was quite straight. So it was more like consumery

stuff. But but Jeremy, Tiff and Quentin did a bit more kind of larking about, which was kind of

the precursor for what we did. But we just took it up to 11, if you like. So Jeremy's on this

golden handcuffs agreement. And so they've got to give him, pun intended, a vehicle

to it. So so brilliantly him and Andy said, Well, let's bring back Top Gear. So I got wind of this

because I'd kind of worked with them. And I was like, Oh, I want this, you know, in the interim,

I've been doing, they think it's all over, which was a lads lads lads sports, sports panel show

on BBC One. And I had this really weird month in 2002. So a long time ago,

where it was the World Cup. So they were going to do a World Cup special, they think it's all

over. But I got an interview for Top Gear. And this was kind of like, Oh, my God, I've got to get

this. And so I, I went in and like the PA, who was going to take me up there. So I was like,

so I asked, Oh, how many people have you seen? You know, I was thinking about what the competition

was. I think he's really my mind because I'd worked in entertainment. I was doing game shows

and stuff like that. And I was trying to think through my mind. But Andy had given me a steer

that was going to be more entertaining. So I was like, Oh, great, this plays to my strengths.

So I said, Oh, how many people have you had, you know, interviewed for this role? And it was a

research as well. She's like, Oh, yeah, we have had, we had like 10, 10 yesterday, and we've

got another 10 today, and we did 50 last week. Oh my God. And I was like, right, I'm going to have to

go shit or bust for this. So I knew I had a slight advantage because I knew Andy. So Andy was there

and the guy called Gary Hunter, who used to be the exact producer. So I went in there and just gave

it. I just thought, I went just shit about student impressions of Jeremy, you know, all of this kind

of stuff. I thought Jeremy could be on the show. Yeah, I had a list of ideas. So it said, it said

I'll come with this. So I have 10, 10 lists, a list of ideas, or that they wanted studio ideas,

and, and, and different things. So I remember I had like, concept corner in the studio or

something like that. And a load of other stuff of the time. Remember, I just found out about

Ascari and they had that racetrack down in this down in that just been finished. So I was like,

Oh, we've got to go to Ascari Island and all that kind of stuff, you know, it's like a bomb layer

with the car. So all of these kind of things. And so then I had the interview, I thought,

probably not got it because of the odds of the amount of people that they've seen. And then

I didn't. And then, and then for some reason, they didn't want me back on to do the World Cup

special on them. I think it's all those I was broken because I've been there a year or so.

You know, what's all that about? But it turned out was, you know, someone had got it in for me,

which does happen in TV, but that's okay. It all worked out in the end. And I remember I was unemployed.

I was going to claim the first time I'd ever been the Dole Q, you know, with the ticket

in Walthamstow, where I was living. So it was quite a depressing time. And I went around my

brother's house to watch England versus Argentina in the 2002 World Cup, which you might be too

young to remember Beckham scored a winning penalty. A lot of people talk about it. Yeah. And we beat

the RGs. And, and then the phone rang and it was Willman. And I was still euphoric from the game,

you know, I mean, thank you. I mean, I don't drink, but I think he thought I was drunk. He was

like, have you had a drink? And I was like, no, no, no, no. And he goes, I've got some bad news.

And I was like, all right, then. And he goes, you've got the job. And I'm like, wow, wow, wow,

wow. And I was like, oh, my God, I remember being there just going, I've got it. I've got the job.

I've got a job on Top Gear, which is which, which for me would be like, I imagine what you would

feel now, because we're, you're almost exactly the same age as I was when I got the job. And I

remember going around the North Circular in my then girlfriend's Vauxhall Balmont,

banging the roof, singing the Top Gear, singing the Top Gear theme chain, because I couldn't

believe I got it. I could not believe that I got it. And so, um, yeah, it was, it was extraordinary.

And that was the start of what became quite an extraordinary show. And I think today I'd love

to get into sort of what your role in that was, because I've listened to you on another podcast

when you did the Richard and Ben, of course, I listened to that before this. And I heard all

these little things, especially towards the end that I picked up, like when you went off to America

for what was perceived to be a week of doing research and ended up being there for five

weeks. And you've got a habit of having to buy extra pants on trips. I always say that's people

started on, whenever they come on, it's like, you're going to get shouted at, and you're going to

have to buy a pack of pants at some point. Well, this is, this is strange because I've done so many

Top Gear related stories. And I love them. I feel like it's the only conversation I think the

audience would agree. But it almost feels like you're talking about Hello, Turf at Twickenham.

They are special about talking about the thing that you absolutely love. But I was amazed when

you said that you actually got a leaving gift, which we'll get on to later, because everybody

when they mentioned Willman and also departures from Top Gear, they don't talk about gifts.

Well, I'm pretty sure I got a different version of Willman when he got in my van.

You really don't. I got different. We had him on midweek F1 the other week,

texting me and I was like, I put it in the group was like, this is the nicest he's been to me in

a text in the 26 years or whatever it is that I've known 25 years that I've known him. And

but but I think he's mellow. He was under a lot of pressure like we were talking earlier,

you know, about as soon as you're in that kind of he was lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was after

the podcast. He was before the podcast. And I of course rang Mr. Ben Collins. Well, that was a

leaving gift from Ben rather than potentially the rest of the group. I can't remember,

but it did because there was a thing, there was a time when they did dish out some stick crash

helmets at some point, but that then dissipated. And for those listening on audio to interrupt,

what we're referring to is you brought a stick helmet as well, which Ben also had one of these

in the last episode we did together. And this one's actually signed by some say

on the side of it here. Or is it? Yeah. Or is it? Yeah. However, if we go back to those earlier

days before getting too far ahead of ourselves, what what what did it look like? How many of

you were there? What season did you begin on? And was it parks and Hammond and May? No, Jason

Dore. Jason Dore. So I was there right at the start. My first job, this is the this is the weird

one. My first job was to go and look at airfields and hangars around the country. So I went to

Northwild, I went to Bovingdon. Was that the Tank Museum? Yeah, I think so. It's a long time ago

now. And then actually, Wilma got a tip off about Dunsfold and went to Dunsfold. And it was the first

press card ever driven, a Renault Valsatis, which hasn't aged well. And I remember there was some

state agent bloke at Dunsfold. And I got a bit giddy and went down the runway and hit 100 and he

was like, you know, and it was the most smooth, it was the smoothest, most recent. So that was 2002

and it had been resurfaced because that's what the Harriers were made right up till. So it had

been resurfaced in like 98, which of course was only four years previous to that. So it was by far

the best one to have a circuit at and they had this spray shot with a false roof, which would

make a nice studio lack of echo. And so suddenly we were there, right? So and there are there are

these there are these like weird things and you sound to think, oh, these all happened between

well, I got out the other things when I got the job on my birthday, which is in June. So basically

from all these things happened in quite a short period of time. So from June to,

I think we did the first episode, we did these awful pilot episodes in the summer and then

then we did the running to Christmas, I think in the first series, which I freely admit wasn't

good. Everyone's got their rose tinted glasses on. That first series was shit. I was really

like, I remember people ringing me up and going, was that your pilot that went out last night?

No, sorry. That's our fourth go at it, you know, but like with everything that

generally becomes successful is that trial and error. And we were going through that.

And there was no social media, which was cute. I think a huge advantage because we'd have been

slaughtered would have been slaughtered. I was talking to Andy about that, how it would have

changed his experience with Top Gear if he'd have had a comment section.

And it really trumped with him for a minute. It would have destroyed us.

It would have destroyed us because deep down we knew it wasn't good enough.

Right. And then I think from series two onwards, the moment, no disrespect to Jason because he was

absolutely, you know, he was a good presenter and there was just a few things that the format

didn't suit him. Like he couldn't, he's such a good speaker, but he couldn't do the very box

that you have to put a presenter in in the studio. Can you do that exactly the same?

You know, you do that piece of camera exactly the same word for word,

because we'll move the camera and get another angle of it, you know, and he'd always

just do something else and that wouldn't be difficult, you know, but lovely man, really,

there was nothing really wrong with him. I think it was just came from above that they

wanted to change it. I think it was a power play from the channel, but it worked because

we got James out of that. And where did he come from?

So I think that's something you'd researched. No, I just remember doing screen tests. I remember

it coming through Andy and he got this old Bentley at the time and we went around West

London and it was really small crew. So it was like self shooting and I just, I was laying in the

back with a boom, you know, because it was like all hands to the pump for this kind of screen test.

I remember feeling a bit sick laying on the back because obviously it's like, you know,

ocean going liner. And I just remember thinking, oh yeah, he's good, you know, he's good and he's

really nice guy. And Hammond knew him from journal, you know, car launches, etc. They had a

they had a rapport straight away, which helps because I think there was a bit of rivalry before

that with because ever, you know, first series or something, it's like every man for himself

at the end of the series. That's how it was, you know. And yeah, immediately, I remember

having been so overjoyed that he got the nod for the, they mucked him about as well. And yeah,

so it kicked on from there really. And it still was like Jeremy and the other two guys for a couple

of series. And then it became like a game. But it takes time, you know, and I just, yeah,

we'd have been slaughtered now. It wouldn't have been given those series. What what series then?

Because three, three, when you started getting, what was you, how were you like mentally in that

pilot year series? Because obviously, if you've got elation from getting the job that you want,

and then it's kind of a bit shit. Yeah. But when you think it all isn't going to last very long,

it isn't the dream. There were a few moments where there were a few things that we did.

So there were a couple of things that I was involved in, that I was just like on the day

going, I'm living in the dream. This is unbelievable. So I had this idea to try and jump a double

decker bus over motorbikes, the other way around to what they usually do, right. And so being able

to put that together and see it happen live in front of my eyes at 25. Because I was, I grew up

in the 80s where there was a lot of stunty television, which obviously went badly wrong at

times. And I grew up on people like Evil Can Evil and Eddie Kidd jumping, jumping double decker

buses on motorcycles to do it the other way around bit of a piss take. And it was just the

carnage was just amazing. And it was happening in front of my eyes. You know, it's like, this is

amazing. And we did beat the speed camera. I did it in one day. It was my first shoot up at Brunting

Thought. So we had the first day we had a Stig character, which was the black Stig. It was Perry

McCarthy, which was the wrong driver to do because he was the gobbiest driver. He's a great public

speaker. I always liked to wind Ben up going, Oh, he's very good. Do you think Ben and Perry would

ever do a joint podcast? Well, you could try. That's great. I've certainly just popped into

my head now. You could try, but they're both very competitive people. And it would basically

turn into some kind of arm wrestle. I'm better than you. I'm faster than you type of there,

I imagine. So yeah, give it a go. Give it a go. I think that's one too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People

will be saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, you make that happen. Yeah, sorry about that. And yeah, so anyway,

we did that as well. And it was kind of like the first day of trying to keep him under covers,

because we did it in a TVR and there were some PR people, we did three cars or something.

Anyway, going up in speed. And of course, all the PRs were coming with the cars because they

all want to have a look, you know. And so it was keeping him under wraps. That was the first

experience of, oh, we can't give away this guy's identity. So he started doing a French accent

after a bit, which was good. And then we all thought he was Alan Prost. You might have noticed,

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latest hoodies and t-shirts. Well, that's because Hera are now partnered with Road to Success,

which is very exciting. So every week, I'll be wearing their latest hoodies and t-shirts

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you'll see some shots of me and my team wearing different items of Hera to give you a little

bit of inspiration too. So I don't think people realise like they obviously, they see the stick

and they see what you get on TV and then obviously no speaking from the stick on TV in a character,

but for the people that are on the ground, it was a different experience. You had to communicate

through these holes with the characters. So the original parent was doing a French accent,

so he didn't have to be Alan Prost under his cover. Well, no, people assumed it was Alan Prost

because they heard a French accent, right? So they go, Oh my God, I think he's Alan Prost,

you know, and so that was, that was quite funny. And it was such a, so Inspector Caluso, you know,

it was such a cod, a cod French accent. And but yeah, no, he was good, like Perry I got on with

because he was a bit of a hero of mine because he was in Formula One in the worst team in history.

And that's a fantastic story. And I remember having a t-shirt as a kid, they wouldn't let him

out in pre-qualifying and like, let Pell out this t-shirt that he got Silverstone that year.

So he was a bit of a hero. And so, but he was a good, you know, he's like, he does amazing,

like public speaking, you know, he's absolutely the worst person to have as a stick, you know.

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required. Because I was so deep in that there. Where Ben was a little bit more refined in his

helmet. So how would you get, you say he was the worst person to be the stick?

Well, only because he wanted to out, he was constantly wanting to out himself.

So if he'd have lasted five years, not a chance, not a chance.

He would have been very much that the whole audience would have known who he was.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he kind of outed himself. He went under a bit of a cloud, because I think he

tried to start like a cartoon or something with the stick. There was something that went down.

So the decision, did that come from above, that it was time to move on?

Yeah. So then we fired him off the end of an aircraft carrier, and he died. And then the white

stick came out of the sea, I seem to remember. And then from that onward, that coincided with

James, that coincided with the bigger ambition, with the VTs, and we're getting to know.

And the big turning point for me, I set up the Aston Martin versus the train to Monte Carlo,

which was our first big race. And that was really stressful. So this is the whole

experience in one VT. It was like the worst time and the best time, all at the same time, right?

So the stress of setting this thing up, because of course, you're trying to do all the timetables,

and I was working it out on average speeds. So I gave Jeremy an average speed of, say, 50 miles

an hour, because it was all motorway down to South France, virtually. So he went like reams,

and then down all the way down. And then the train type of timetable is there, right? So you get

that train, you get that Euro style, then you get to Paris, and then you get that TGV, right?

So I've been working, trying to work out like with my GCSEC level maths, trying to work out

average speeds. So that was really tricky. Then Monte Carlo is a nightmare, just permissions,

because of course you've got to get permission to park it in Casino Square, and that was really

stressful. And then there's all the mechanics of, so back in those days, you had so much kit

with us. The reason, I don't know if you remember it, but we got all these cheap Louis Vuitton style

suitcases that the presenters, they were just full of camera kit, because we weren't in a world where

you could just take an SLR or whatever and film it. So there was all the logistics,

and then the shoot day, and then it's kind of like, oh, will it work? The sleepless night beforehand,

before you have to do essentially five in the morning till two in the morning, you know,

silly hours, right? So, and I remember this was the first experience where, and it's happened,

it's happened a couple of times since, where I'd been on a plane and I don't want it to land,

right? It's so stressful. So basically, I set them off, so I went to Waterloo, which that's how

long ago it was, where the Euro style used to go from. So I did that journey with the two boys,

and then I had to get on, and then I went up to Luton, got a flight down to the South France,

so that I could set up the ending in Casino Square, of which I kind of got general permission,

but I hadn't got any parking spaces sorted, you know, for the Aston. So this was all still

TBC a little bit on the plane, and I was, I just remember seeing, I remember being on the plane

just going, I really don't want this plane to land, can it just circle until it runs out of fuel?

Because I didn't know what I was going to find down there, right? So I got off the plane,

got the world's most expensive cab to Monte Carlo, and then I basically went in the cafe

de Paris and pleaded with the owner, and he was like, no, like this, you know, to a kind of bench.

And then I said, okay, I've got 25 crew coming, and we're all going to eat here, okay? We'll eat

here, reverse the table. Can I just have a space outside? And he went, all right then. And so I

just moved these bollards, right? And that was about 20 minutes before Jeremy turned up. And

then I had no idea what Top Gear was over there. No, I don't think they did. I think there was,

no, no, it was before the days where you could drop that, drop that card. And so literally got

this space about 20 minutes before Jeremy turned up, you know, and there would have been a lot of

trouble had that not been, you know, because he's revved up and he's racing the other two. And there

he was, you know, it was a quite a competitive affair. And I just, I've been so relieved and just

so knackered, like, I just so relieved. And then it turned out to be really good. And it was days

before we had pro drivers. So I got to drive the DB9 back. We did all the pit, I double for Jeremy

doing all the pickup shots. And that was just joy. I felt like Roger Moore, you know, and it was just

that was that bit was fantastic. So it was that bipolar where, like, I'm on a plane not wanting

to take to crash. So I don't have to deal with what's going down there to feel like Roger Moore in

the South France. There's so many bits to unpick there, though, because going from being stood in

the line for a bowl cue, because there's just nothing left in Wormstone, which I know what

that's like. So I used to fish a couple of lakes there. And frequently people were posh now actually

executed into the stream behind the two lakes, right from Ganges. And that is an interesting

part of the world. Yeah, it's really posh now, but it was quite funky back in the day. That was

when I was younger going fishing kind of on those on those reservoirs. But to go from there to

driving back. Yes, and Martin DB nine. Yeah, or within a year and a half or whatever it was. I

don't know. What's the people kind of around you think of that? Like when you go to Sunday

roast with your parents, maybe or whoever was in your kind of life at that point, your friends at

the pub? What would those kind of conversations be? What will their reactions be to them? Well,

they've been like, I have the same friends that I had back then. I'm very fortunate. I've got

fantastic group, group of friends from university years. And they're just really supportive. And

they were, I think they're quite proud of what I managed to do. And there's never been, I've been

very lucky. There hasn't been that many green eyed monsters, you know, and that that can be a thing.

And and I can spot that now, you know, there's this people pro it's more green, I mean, this

tend to be boyfriends or husbands of acquaintances at the area. And I've been to the odd reunion where

people immediately assume that you're going to be up yourself because you because you've

done what you've done, you know. And but but my proper friends are fantastic. And they're very,

you know, you can get carried away with yourself. And people, people do get a bit lardy-dar. We

maybe get onto that in a bit. But I've always thought I'm just really lucky. I've just been

very lucky. And I made the most of the bit of luck that I got. Okay, if you're enjoying this

utter nonsense that Ben and I are talking about, why not subscribe to Road to Success on the

YouTube's or the Spotify's? See, I love also unpicking the things that people don't see.

And the stories that are occurring kind of parallel to the thing that you see

in the forefront. And that kind of realisation that, yes, there's a race going on to get to

Monte Carlo or the race across London. But there's also the same race going on for the production.

Yeah, yeah, basically beat those. Yeah, exactly. Those those things were mental. I did a really

Bugatti Veyron. That was the really mental one. Were they fully real then? Because we're getting

onto the topic and getting on to your primary role was researcher, if you weren't led in the back

of a Range Rover with a camera boom. And your dear friend, Richard Porter, who's been on this

podcast, was great writer. But were those two things tied over a bit as well? So basically,

we were really lucky with how the office laid out. We had this kind of, there was like a

group to all the editorial in this quite small kind of office, which was basically in a corridor.

And then there was like this Berlin wall of filing cabinets over to the holiday program.

And then if you remember that, anyway, so they all thought all these terrible men over there,

you know, so it was a bit of and so I would so I was sat on I think there was six desks. So in

front of me, I think was Richard, although he was in the middle one, maybe Grant Waldrop.

So as Grant Waldrop, Richard Porter, and then Wilman had this desk on the end, I think.

And the other side next to me was Roland French. You should get him on. He's very good.

Every single one of you has that I've had on as mentioned Roland. Yeah, yeah. No, he's

absolutely legend. He started same day as me. And then next to him was a guy called Neil Taylor.

He was very, very good. And then, oh, sorry, opposite me was Alex Renton, who that's terrible.

I'm working with him. He's excellent too. So it would basically what happened was,

they just employed all the right people at the right time, essentially. And there was a bit

of change over, but the core group kind of stayed the same through that period until which time,

which we can get on to, you know, it wasn't a democracy. It was a dictatorship. And with

all dictatorships, as we as we're finding out, that kind of services the top one or two percent

and you're left there with your nose up against the glass ceiling. And so that was kind of the

reason why I had to kind of leave the first time, because I wanted to become a director,

just and I was directing the track and I wasn't getting. And so I thought, right, I'm going to

have to go and direct elsewhere. So I'm going to have to leave. And to be fair, the first American

trip kind of finished me off. I was so knackered and tired. And I just kind of, I just, I didn't

know it at the time, but I was basically burnt out. What was that period of time between kind of

the series three, the elation and feeling like? So that was 2003. And then I left in 2006 or three

years. But before, but two thousand six, so four years in total. And I was just done because as

brilliant as that small group was, it was a small group. And the ambition and the level kept going

up to the point where and the expectation from the audience, like once you've done

a cargo nanoski slope on with rockets, you know, like, what do we do now? You know, and then the,

then that became the Reliant Robin, because it was the same rocket people. And then you're like,

how can we possibly top that other than go to space? You know, it's like,

I actually have that chat with a lot of YouTubers off the same deal that I'm friends with. Yeah.

Me and Chris Slick's often, if we go to the par ball, whatever, out with our friends,

sat there talking about what could be future projects on his channel. We just get to the

point where like, Christ, like nearly done them all. Yeah, exactly. And so he's done that. And

so he's done that. And like, if, if naturally the level and the danger goes up, which is the

problem, I haven't spoke to Matt for a while, especially on the podcast, but if he like does

a sharon, you know, he was close to do. Wow. Where'd you go? Where'd you go from there? So

you and Andy described those years as being a bit of a pressure cooker. But do you think that

those years formulated and created a recipe of like, it wasn't just the fact the three presenters

clicked. You mentioned everybody in the room there. Was there the same magic behind the team,

behind the scenes? Well, I would suggest in those early days, they all, everything was together.

So the presenters and the team, no ideas were off the table. Like Jeremy would come in and it

would all be, all Jeremy's coming in, but it wasn't that much of a big deal. It's like, oh,

Jeremy's coming in, we'll do, we'll do an ideas thing. And everything was open. And it was a very

open forum. And I remember that's why series three is so good. The from then onwards was so good,

because we got a hang of it by then and we knew what we're doing. It didn't. So I could go, well,

what about this? And they go, yeah, done, that's on. And Roland could go, I've been thinking about

this. And they would all go, yeah, you know, and it would be in because we know it editorially,

you cut through it. And you're like, the editorial was beaten into us, right? So I, and, and like

card, I don't remember, card arts just being, yes, we've got to do card arts. You know, I'd set that

one out. I spent a day in a quarry trying to do the dartboard with this guy. Can we get into that?

Because, but before we get to the, the why you left and everything you're kind of doing now,

yeah, these are the, these are the things that I know as the audience. Yeah. Like,

they're kind of glancing memories if you look back. But what would your like week look like? Like,

take the week you did car darts, for example, what would that look like? Well, it was a weekend,

I remember, because the quarry only shut on a Sunday. So we had to go up there on a Sunday and

we had one day to draw out this massive dartboard on the bottom of the quarry. And basically, if

it, I turn up there with some guy that someone knew it, he was like a old, old, basically like an

art teacher. And I said, right, what paints do we got? Oh, it's all water paints. I'm like, you

are so fit rains where we're screwed, aren't we? Oh, yes. I mean, we can cover it over, you know,

like an art teacher. Oh, yes. Oh, no, it would all go away. So Christ sakes. So I'm looking at this

is before apps on phones. I knew the forecast was all right. Oh, my God. All right. So there were

a Sunday morning that and there could have well been a studio on the Wednesday beforehand in

those days. I don't know. I can't remember. But anyway, so we do the we do the bullseye yet. That's

no trouble. Let me go out, get further out. And we got the five, which was going to be it's like,

mate, it's it's nearly four o'clock. We're never going to do no, no, we're going to have to come

over to shoot tomorrow. We can't do it anyway. So I said, all right, what we'll do is we'll do it.

We'll do the circle because we had the big long string and going around. So we'll do the circle

and then we'll put circles around the five and then we'll leave it dirt colored out. Okay, fine.

So just about straight through that. And then then the presenters turn up on Sunday night.

And they knew they weren't driving. And I'm sure Richard won't mind, but he'd had a couple of drinks

or a few Sunday lunch or something. Anyway, he turns up the next morning and he's

quite hungover. You watch that again. He is quite hungover because he knew he was to try anyway.

But weirdly, that made him more emotional about the dots. So actually was a great

form and sorry, that was my phone. I thought we had a camera going off then.

But you're right on silent. You're all right. It's not that serious. This is a van.

Yeah. All right. Sorry. See, I'd have been murdered for that back in the old days.

And we're not that strict in it. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, and it becomes a really great VT,

you know, and we got into destroying caravans. I was quite pleased. We got into destroying

caravans. Can we just... Can I claim it? Can I claim it? This hope doesn't come across in the ego

thing. But basically, I used to go on... That would be mine. That was mine because I used to go on

quite disappointing holidays in caravans as a kid. And I remember once, and it came from Old

Top Gear, what I was talking about, I remember once seeing this jet plane smashing up a thing.

Gotta do that. And we did that with like a jet car or something. And it went down quite well.

I was like, right, let's just start smashing up caravans because they fall apart brilliantly

because there's a lot of wood, there's a lot of... Yeah, it's a matchbox on wheels.

I mean, and it's just a chassis. And so we put a... I was very pleased with Richard's reaction. So

I was like, right, bring in the caravan. He goes, oh, whoever thought that was genius. And I was like,

that was... Yes. Anyway, so that just became a really good VT and it was really fun. And it was

again, the bipolar experience of, oh, God, are we going to get this dartboard

done in time to really memorable, good VT? And that was like that for pretty much all of those

experiences. Yeah, because Andy would meddle, right? And I get it, I get it, but he'd meddle at

the last minute. And I remember the only time that I didn't... It was the mini down the ski slope.

And that was so hard to do because I was getting... We were talking earlier about employing people

and getting people to work together, right? So I had one group of people, I had a stunt

people called Bickers who were excellent and I get on with them really well. And they were doing

all the welding and putting the frame in that the rockets were going. And then we had rocket

scientists and the two of them together, two very different backgrounds. And it was a real

pig to set up because all I was getting was calls, he doesn't understand this and then he

doesn't understand that. And it's kind of like, look, we're all together, we'll get this result.

There's nothing to understand there. We're sending a mini down a hill with straps or a rocket. I know

when knows what's going on. But it's like, what's the burn time? I don't know, probably about three

seconds because you don't want it to go into the town, into Lilyhammer beyond the ski slope.

And all of this kind of stuff. So it was a lot. And I knew I chose a mini because

we were Brits abroad. I chose an old school mini with a Union Jack on the roof and Bickers had

one in their yard. And I was like, that's perfect. For me, it's perfect because the Italian job and

all of that, I love minis. And I knew that Andy didn't share my love for minis. And it was one

of those ones because it was in January, which is the other thing that the show also did was

it always loved to spoil your Christmas and spoil bank holidays. And you never went to the barbecue

on bank holiday because you were still in the office trying to set up these shoots. But Andy

had been away on holiday to the Caribbean. This was the point where I looked through the glass

ceiling and people are going on holidays to the Caribbean and becoming millionaires. So

I was like, you can't come back from holiday with your sickening tan after Christmas

and tell me to change that car. And that was the only thing. And I think he could see it. And I was

like, don't, with my car, because this has been really difficult to set up. But the results were

worth well. And now the car's in a museum. That kind of sounds like the Andy that I get the kind

of picture of. Yeah. And you'll probably go, all right, then. There's a degree of

their sister was we'll see the almost exactly nearly at boiling point, it seems. But going

on to boiling point, you speak about this trip to the US, the five week trip that are taken a week.

You actually the first ever person that I kind of put with

wrecky trips because I never knew they existed is when I first got into sports cars, I went on a

trip away with supercar driver clone. Nice. Very lucky. The first trip I ever did was all

around the out and came back and John T who I should really get on this podcast from supercar

driver used to do all the wreckies and he'd say, I know it looks fun. I know it looks great. It's

a long time away on my own sometimes in the middle of nowhere with no idea where I'm going or how

to get back. And that was the first kind of I ever heard of a wrecky trip. So you were on one that

was used to take a week. Now what film is that for? So this was the Miami to New Orleans

arrive and drive, you know, could you buy a old car rather the same price as renting one and buy

it and go from Miami to New Orleans. And it had every it was just the culmination of all of it.

It had the meddling and it had Jeremy potentially at his worst. But the wrecky so Grant Waldrop,

or affectionately known as Grant Waldrop was the other producer on it. And we went out to Miami

and we didn't have we did again this for some reason was on my birthday. So my 29th birthday

lasted 29 hours on the plane, which was another weird and lovely thing, right? But the plan was

Grant's the lead on this, but he needs help. He needs to be two of you on the ground doing

it. And we didn't have didn't have visas went out, you know, as if we were tourists. So it was a look

it's my birthday. So three you go didn't get any trouble. And then we because the route was so long

you needed two people to swap the driving, you know, and then because we had to do it three times.

And I've never been to the Kennedy Space Center, right? But I've driven past it about four or

five times. I've never been I've need to put that right anyway. So we did this trip.

And we were trying to source the cars. And it's this absolute textbook experience, we found

really good cars on the car lots and we're sending pictures through and he's like, no,

go again, again, again, again. No, still not good enough. And you're like, oh, for God's sakes.

And then I think we ended up with one of the cars that we saw on day one actually in the

end. But anyway, let's not get into that. So we did this trip and it was great. Like the

record was great. We did the trip, we went to New Orleans, then we went back, we got stopped by the

cops because we were doing we were doing a speed that we shouldn't have been doing. And it was

it was flashlight and gun through the window. So this is bad. I remember this cop going,

you better have $10,000 or you're going to jail. Oh, this is this is bad ground. This is very bad.

So we did our best. I'm so sorry officer like this. And he was like, oh, you guys have a great

time now, you know, got away with it. Just found a British accent. Anyway, so then Jeremy comes out.

So because these cars and I was like, well, I'm on the plane home. And then Andy was like, no,

no, mate, you're staying out for the trip. I've only packed for a week. So off I went and got my

pants, got my pack of pants. And we're staying at like next to the airport. And I said, oh,

can I launder these clothes? And they were like, people only stay here for one night.

What do you mean? You'll have to go to it's around the corner anyway. But that's by the

bike. That's just my clothing arrangement. But then the trip was really kind of stressful.

We had to find this cow to put on the and then the cow had been dead for a few days. I don't

know on the roof because there's a road challenge, right? So another brilliant person who the

immune community would not have liked that one. No. The the the another brilliant person that

started by then a guy called Gavin Whitehead had somehow managed to who actually set up

before, you know, he was behind the farm, setting all that up for Jeremy. Anyway, he'd found this

through his farming because he's a Scottish farmer. Anyway, he'd somehow found this dead cow.

And we go, right, go to this guy, he's on the way, get the get the dead cow that kept the cow's been

dead for a week or something. And there's bile coming out of its eyes. It's ass. It was awful.

It was awful thing. Anyway, we managed to get it on top of the car. And in those days,

like the in car cameras had these recorders that used to sit on the passenger seat because

they were tapes. This is how long ago we're talking with little DV tapes. And Jeremy does his like

spin turn the cow falls off hilarity. However, the bile from the cow has gone on the kit and

everything. And there's there's like this near mutiny with the crew and it's or it's like

proper awfulness. This is this is the ying to the yang of the highs, right? And

I thought, I don't know if I can do this. You know, and I got on the plane back and

and it was all quite it was just a bit shouty. The whole thing was quite Jeremy is worst.

To the point where we got this guy to get the fat stick, right? And of course, like Jeremy's

this big alpha male, and he's having a pop of pop of me. And Jeremy's having a pop of me for

whatever reason. And then fat sticks having a pop of me because he's revved up by Jeremy. I

believe that stick get back in your box. I cast you two weeks ago. So could you have something

here? It's like Christ's Sakes, man. Anyway, so it was just like it was been four years I was

shattered. And on the plane back, I just thought I've had enough now. Would Richard and James

also have a worst or was that very much Jeremy? I've got to be careful what I say here. I

know not not not to the level. And I always got on so well with them like day one.

I did Richard's first shoot. That was the beat the speed camera thing I was talking about earlier.

And it was like I didn't I said, I am Jim, the research he said, I am Richard the presenter,

you know, so we started on like almost we're both first day at school. So it was fine. And I

always got on with him and I went and worked for him afterwards. We did a kid's show that won a

BAFTA called Blast Lab, which was just amazing. We did a documentary with Stirling Moss,

which was amazing as well about head injuries after he'd had his accident.

And so I always got on with it and James was just very easy going. So there was I think other

people might have had trouble, but not me because I'm because I've just been there from day one

really started on equal level. What were you going to about Jeremy's worst days? So it was

obviously, I can see a sheer level of appreciation for the on camera kermismic. Can't say that word

today properly. You know, the one I'm on about charismatic character that Clarkson is bombastic.

Yeah, all of these things are done. There's an appreciation for why his recipe creates love.

Yeah. But then so but what was the other side of that? Well, do you know what I've been thinking

about this recently, only because I've been doing a bit of work on Grand Tour on the three new

presenters and that there's going to be a handing over of the baton, I believe they've been they

have been announced. They have. Okay, good. So I can I think everybody knew it was everyone. No,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the other two. Yeah, let's be for a starter. Oh, there you go.

It's happened again. Francis bourgeois and the other two. And so

so I was thinking about this the other day. I actually think it's like in the cold light of

day now years on, because at the time it was kind of like, oh, my God, this is tires,

this is art going, this is really hard. But I think it's a mixture of I think he felt the

pressure more than anyone for it had to be good, right, because it's his mug on TV, right. And the

other thing is that I do believe that he's constantly dehydrated as well, because he's

a gentleman from the 1970s, and he doesn't drink enough water. And in hot temperatures,

like we were we were doing, I think by the afternoon he was completely, you know, dehydrated.

And not that person to be. Yeah, yeah, because he just drinks Diet Coke, you know.

But if you were drinking in his pub with Colin and Porter, we'd have a great time. And he saw you

walk past you by your ear. Yeah, yeah. He'd be a perfect present. I've seen him at a couple of

things recently. And absolutely fine. And I must say, like, he's a great company outside of the

workplace. You can be an excellent company, and you'll have a laugh. But I think he was just

feeling the pressure, like, because I've gone through a phase of going, why was he such, you know,

was, why be like that? You're really successful. But I think it was just

the pressure. And I'll give you an example. We did this really simple thing that was really

funny. We did a wig test on the runway. And I'd sourced all the wigs. And I've done a little

script was like, Oh, this is the Rolls Royce of wigs and everything. And before we did it,

and it was in the studio, and he was on me, and he was like, Oh, he's going to be right.

It's got to be right. You know, and it's like, No, no, this is right. These are the right

these are the these are the different wigs. And it was because he probably felt a little bit

underprepared. Because it was like we shut it on the day and it was kind of like a filler. But it

worked really, really well. And these, you know, the screen frame with the wig falling off in the

blowing off in the convertible cars work really well. And it went down a storm. And then afterwards

he's all, it's all great, you know, so it's all marvelous. But it worry much was, if it didn't go

it would have been my fault. Do you know what I mean? Because he would have had to have had to

blame someone because it can't possibly be him, you know, in that sense. So was it on that plane

home you decided to kind of leave pastures? Yeah. And you knew that you were leaving with

more this time than ending up back in the dole queue? Yes. So by then I was an employee of the

BBC. I'd become staff because I hung around long enough in those days you became staff. So it

coincided with me becoming staff. So I didn't have that kind of fear of being unemployed.

And I'd had a job offer that I'd kind of made it known and a couple of people had sniffed around

and I'd had a kind of job lined up. So I thought, I seem to remember that was the case. And then

so then I think I tried to go the season before and Andy had done, Andy's not afraid of doing a

number on you doing the whole, you know, I remember him just going, come on, do one more series for

me. And I remember it almost being tearful because it was like such a family, you know,

and he's dad, you know, it was like, oh, come on, do one for your old dad. Oh, Christ sakes,

you know. And so yeah, I'd done, so I kind of knew that I was I was done. I was just so shattered,

you know, I'd go on holiday and you could only take holiday because we did a series in,

so you were there, you could only say Christmas and two weeks at the most expensive time,

like in August, you know, and I'd go take two weeks off and literally sleep for five days.

My poor other half who's still with still references that. What was your once you'd left

that next series three moment, a moment where you're in the new projects that you're doing,

you're like, oh my God, this gives me everything I had from the best charisma happy days at Top Gear.

Oh, that's that's a good question. I haven't really thought about that before. I really enjoyed

doing the things with Richard had a really fantastic time with September films and we

did we actually did a pilot that didn't didn't work either. Unfortunately, a stunt pilot of BBC

one. And we did. I think the Sterling Moss thing about the head injuries is probably

the most satisfying thing because I just didn't feel that Richard got the credit he deserved

for coming back so quickly after that crash. I just thought I'd left by then I've just left

and the crash happened and I was like, oh no, because I was the other reason why I was leaving

I was I was getting I got like a school to hiatus hernia, which is a stress related thing. You

sit constantly feel sick because you know, I've been on edge and the stress of it. I remember

going to the doctors and they're going, are you an alcoholic? No, are you pregnant? No,

are you all these other things? Have you been under stress for a longer period of time? Yes,

so I don't know what is going with that. But that was confession, basically. But

Richard had had this accident. And I felt like it had been underplayed because it was that show

must go on attitude. And he came back on a bit too soon. And I remember seeing him for the first

time of the accident. And he was he was still a little confused. Like everything needed to

you know, reconnect in his brain because it's a brain injury. There's frontal lobe injury,

which is exactly the same as that Stirling Moss had had in that ended his driving career.

So it was just a really powerful moment of two people who had experienced something

massive in their lives. It was almost like a podcast before podcasts were popular.

And which is what you've got into doing now? Yes, which is but you're to use a put together

midweek F1. Yes, I've got a huge passion for the one. I've loved the end of the season that we've

just had. Yeah, you think Matt should have won Orlando. I'm quite happy to see a new world

champion. Yeah, I think it's fresh. I think he's British. I think it's great. On the other hand,

I think it would have been the greatest sport in comeback if Max had a one. And that would have

been insane to watch as well. But I still believe the staff is the greatest. There you go. Yeah,

that's the list for the comments. There's the disclaimer, which is amazing how we are talking

about that. Yeah, rather than what an amazing comeback he had in the second half of the season.

But also what the narrative was of Max in 2021, which shows how narrative can shift,

which shows how people's attitudes can shift. So will people's attitudes shift to three new

presenters on the Grand Tour? Because you're saying that you're working with that. Is that

still an unknown? Yeah, I think so. So all I'll say is that I was not surprised by the quite

binary response to the announcement that you get half people going, oh, good luck to them,

half of people. It will never work because it's not the three of them. So that was always going

to be the case. They're very good. I've been watching them obviously in the edit for the last

few months. And I think it will work. I really hope it does. Because what you've got to remember is

there's a lot that it's the people making it, it's almost like the best of the best. It's,

you know, it's all creamed off all the good people, you know, because maybe we could talk

about this. There was a divorce between Top Gear and Grand Tour. But of course, everyone's back

together. And so there's some really amazing people working on it. The three presenters are

great. And the learning curve that they've gone on is amazing. They'll be mixed up in the series,

I'm sure, but the difference between start and the end of the series is just amazing. They're

all like sponges. They're just, they're taking it all in and they're learning every time they go

right and thinking as well. There's kind of a hand in over of the basin going on a little bit.

They're going to be, but they're actually being coached by the original. Lord Gaman of

Diddley Squats is doing a, is ordaining them. They're going to drink the blood of Top Gear Dog.

And no, that's a joke. That's not going to happen. And yeah, and Richard's in some VTs and James is

in some of it as well. So there's a, there's a decent, which is completely different, obviously,

to the, to what happened before. And it's much nicer for it. And it's just really funny. The

interaction between, there's, there's, there's a V2 that I've been involved in where Richard's,

the interaction between Richard and the, and the, and the new three is just hilarious.

Because Chris Harris was honestly, yeah, Top Gear character. One of my favorites,

and I think his driving ability is absolutely incredible. But you got to work on that film

with Chris and Max that I think is one of those random pieces of, it was very random.

We say television, but it was on YouTube, which is the one way better figures than television.

But it's one of those random one off pieces of content. They are like, wow, yeah, that's a gem.

That is a bit special. Yeah, it was great. I mean, it was one of those ones. And I have to say,

that's another one when you say, oh, how, that was another one where I kind of pinch myself and go,

that was brilliant. Honestly, it felt like a holiday. It was that good. And again, you go with

anxiety because it would been organized by Red Bull. And I was working for another company coming to,

to help to just kind of smooth the way. And so I took care of, they went to a circuit,

a little circuit in South France, which was almost the perfect size to shoot on. It's very small.

So you cover it really easily. And I knew obviously Chris, and he was really, really,

like pooping his pants about meeting Max. And that was actually quite sweet because I'd worked

with Max a few times because I do preseason sponsor filming for them. And I've kind of worked with

Max since he's been at Red Bull once a year. He obviously sees me and go, oh, that guy,

oh, God, I'm gonna have to do sponsorship things. But the other important thing was Max was

really into the RS 200 and really into the, into the Mustang. He was, it was like a nice little

track day, you know, he helicoptered it in when biffed around in a couple of nice cars. So he

had a nice time. See, there, there was a respect between Max and Chris because I think obviously

Chris knows what an absolute generational talent Max is. And Max likewise knows everything about

Chris and it comes back to obviously your job as a researcher. Is it impossible to research

charisma, which brings back the grand tour question? Is it possible to prep charisma? Or is that something

that you have to do an error? It's trial and error. Well, the new presenters who I won't say

the names of just in case I get told off, but you've got them right. They come almost fully formed.

So they come, I think, oh, God, Francis is, is, is the surprise package for me because I've only

seen his train videos. I hadn't realized how into cars he is and he's just and his choice of cars

or like the challenges are very specific and very good. And they give something completely new to

it. And the other two are really good storytellers. So it's, it's a really nice mix. And yes, it's

impossible now not to kind of go Oh, is he the James? Is he the Richard? Is he the Jeremy?

Like it's impossible not to do that. But I think that they will develop their own characters. They

just need to be given the time exactly the same situation as 2002. However, I would caveat that

with their and I don't watch a lot of car YouTube car review YouTube because I just see fault in

what they're doing. Like you haven't shot enough for that. You haven't shot enough tracking. You

haven't got, you know, what are you doing? Because it's all for attention. Yeah. Yeah. And so

all the people online can have a crack at them if they want to and they can because that's what

they do, right? But there's a lot of people on YouTube just doing Jeremy impressions anyway,

right? Because the genre is so it's so ingrained into the genre. I'm going to do a sentence with a

pause about this car, you know, it's like there's there's hundreds of them on YouTube now and that's

great. And that's a huge compliment. But they're they're on the outside looking in when you're

in the inside looking out, that's pressure. You know, I know that these guys are under pressure,

but just let them let them do their thing, you know, and that was that was the problem with

we were lucky not to have social media back in the day. And I remember the bile when because I

did the Chris Evans series. And I remember the first episode and I knew it was I knew it wasn't

great because of bit like season one, bit like season one, exactly. But you're not given the

time. And then I when I did, I did some Grand Prix and they were live, you know, I do vts opening

vts for for live Grand Prix. And I got into the habit of you get an instant reaction to the vt

whether they liked it or not. And I've had a good experience. So you just put, you know,

like you go and Google and you just put the the hashtag. And then you see all the so you put

hashtag BBC F1, right? And like, oh, this is great. Oh, only the BBC can do this, you know,

all these nice things. I just remember going hashtag top gear after the first Evans one.

And it was just, is this terrible? This just and and it would scroll up like a almost like,

you know, like video prints, you know, at final score, just scrolling by all.

What did it do to Evans as a car guy? I think he's a proper guy. Yeah. Yeah. He's

look he's he's absolutely fine now. I think

he are again, I think it was he felt the pressure. And it came out in a way that wasn't quite correct.

I think that he like you went, you went missing before the first studio because we were all

where has he got, you know, I think it was just the pressure and he was still doing a

breakfast radio show. He'd just taken on too much. It was almost like an absolute

mirror image of what he'd done in the 90s where he took on too much and then had a

meltdown, you know. So that's just one of them, but he wasn't given enough time.

But pressure is an interesting word because there'll be so many thousands of people listening to this

that would have gone to a job interview, something that a lot of people do. I'm very fortunate that

it's not been the case for me as an entrepreneurial, undisciplined, mega ledge, not case is probably

the word. Undisciplined is definitely the word. So I know I would have liked to have maybe that

experience as well, just for the both sides. But when I hear you talk about your interview and

you're up against all these other people, and yes, there was the element you acknowledged of

you knew Andy, but knowing Andy, you still have to make sure you're right. Was it the

looking back the most important decision of your life that acts the opposite way of what

most people would have gone into that interview as polished, professional, clean, and you just went

in there shouting and being like over. I think I did have the, because I knew Andy, Andy might

respond quite well to that because of previous, you know, like I say, seeing him coming in,

there's the man from Top Gear swearing he's get to know your interview. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

And so I did have an unfair advantage and he told me that afterwards he said, you know,

it was yours to lose. Because we bonded, he's into F1 as well. And we bonded over. We had Damon here on

on the show with Jeremy all those years ago. And I remember trying to pitch Damon a show that I

thought of, you know, and he quite liked that, you know, and so I, yeah, it was the short answer is

yes. It completely changed my life because everything from the group of friends, those people

outside of the Berlin wall to the holiday program, all those people are really great

friends and we meet as much as we can. And I met my other half through the show as well,

you know, she was, she was doing PR for smart at the time and we met. So it's kind of like,

of course, it's, it's, it's, yeah, completely, completely, you know, as sliding doors,

you know, it's sort of cliched, but what it just happened to me, what's annoying is it just happened

to be the show that I was just at the wrong level of this amazingly successful show.

But at the same time, now, you know, you look back and go, yes, it has opened doors, of course,

it has, you know, I wouldn't have got to do that Mustang film with Max and Chris, you know,

which I think is important that you brought this because it also shows between the two,

you brought this helmet today, not because you were one of the Stigs or Odoa was you,

but you actually did it because you still know Ben brilliant. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's his signature

design. You still know Richard. Yeah, yeah. So obviously, a lot of what's come has come from

there, but what wasn't around in those days was podcasting, the closest thing to it was Starna

Reasonably Priced Car. So was it a surprise or has it been a surprise or something like a brush

of breath of fresh air to find yourself in a podcast environment hosting Midweek F1? Like,

how does it work? How do you put that show together? I'm just then putting it together

because you are the ringleader. Well, what's great is that was another chance one,

and related to Richard Hammond and Stirling Moss thing. So I'd work with Ben Edwards,

and another legend of the game who used to commentate on F1, Chang Four and BBC,

and Euro Sport back in the day. So he's such a, for F1 fans, he's such a voice and an authority on

the sport. And I bumped into him and I knew him because I'd worked with him, obviously,

but obviously I'm doing VT's and he's up in the cons box. So we did, we interacted a bit,

but not loads. And I bumped into him at Stirling's Memorial, which was there with Richard, actually.

And it was a funny moment there, actually, because I did a documentary about Nigel Mansel,

Red Five. Nigel was there. And so Richard was like, can I have a picture with Nigel? So I could

make that happen, which was bizarre as well. It's like my childhood hero and a former presenter

friend. Anyway, so I bumped into a Ben there and I said, look, I've had this idea about doing

an F1 podcast between the races, because it always goes quiet on a Wednesday because they're all

flying there. And he no longer does the races and he was like, yeah, I'm up for it. So I was like,

brilliant. And I've met these guys, Dez Paul and Dave Vitti. Dave used to be comedy Dave on

Chris Moyle's breakfast show, if you're of that vintage. And they've got this great company,

and they've taken the punt on it. And we put together a team, we added Nicola Hume, who's

actually a fantastic presenter as well. And it's starting to do that thing where it's starting

to just after the season, starting to gain some traction. And we've met some amazing, you should

come on actually, we met some amazing people along the way as well, like Colin Fers and we did the

last one from his bunker, which was fantastic. So like, but like I was saying earlier, podcasts

are just fantastic, because they're all the thumb bits without any of the BS of TV. And I love it,

doesn't feel like work. It's F1. This is my passion, my first passion again. And I get to watch F1,

make notes, ask questions to very knowledgeable people and get their opinions on the current

situation, you know, what's not to love that again, like going back to your other that that's

again, my happy place. Yeah. Well, it's been absolutely fascinating to hear everything that

went into those early days, all the memories looking back and how that's kind of built everything

you've gone on to do. So I think when people sit there and have a moment like an interview or

any moment they know is going to be pivotal in their life, potentially think about turning it on

its head, potentially think about doing it inside out, because it seems like those moments are what

can lead some of the best times in life when you just stand out from the crowd and do it

differently. And I think your story is exactly that. So thank you so much for coming on Road to

Success. Pleasure. It's been great. Great van. And I look forward to maybe hosting the guys on

Midweek F1 in the van. Oh, God, they'll be here like a flash. Don't you worry. Excellent stuff.

Thank you. Thanks very much. Well, the holidays have come and gone once again. But if you've

forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift, well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday

offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now. You call it an early

present for next year. What do you have to lose? Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

Top Gear ORIGINAL Producer Jim Wiseman: How Chaos, Failure & Luck Built Britain’s Biggest Car Show

About this episode

Top Gear

auto sport magazine

auto car magazine

Ascari

Vauxhall Belmont

Renault Vel Satis

Formula One

Chevrolet Monte Carlo

Aston Martin DB9

Bugatti Veyron

Land Rover Range Rover

Reliant Robin

Mini

The Italian Job

Formula 1

world champion

comeback

narrative

Ford RS200

Ford Mustang

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