Touring Texas in a Ford Expedition King Ranch & Ferrari's Electric Plans

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Bloomberg Audio Studios.

Podcasts, radio, news.

I'm Hannah Elliott.

And I'm Matt Miller, and this is Hot Pursuit.

Coming up today, cornering the ride share market, why Waymo may have an advantage over Uber.

Plus, Formula One is front and center in the racing world, but is there room for others?

How big time automakers are betting on it?

And Ferrari CEO Benedetto Vigna joins us.

We'll talk about the company's first all electric vehicle and the possibility that they go back to gated shifters in new cars.

Thanks for joining us this week on Hot Pursuit.

Hannah, before we get to anything, ask about Texas, because you were just down there.

I see you're wearing a cowboy hat right now, and I'm guessing you're also, you have that gigantic belt buckle on you.

I've still got the truck on.

I basically haven't taken it off for a week, which is, I don't know what that means about me or the truck, but I'm going with it.

I'm actually still in Texas.

I've been here a week.

I've got a couple more days.

I'm in Dallas right now.

And we did try to do this episode from the back of the Ford Expedition King Ranch that I've been driving around all week.

Got a little hot, so we had to reschedule.

So that's, I'm doing it from the confines of a climate controlled hotel room in downtown Dallas right now.

But I have to say this Ford Expedition King Ranch is kind of the perfect vehicle to be driving all around Texas this week.

It's been a lot of fun.

It is gigantic.

I love, you know, the King Ranch edition of the F-150 or the Super Duty trucks because it's got that extra flair.

I don't know if a cowboy would use that term, but it's got that, you know, you extra engraving.

Yeah, the extra stitching like the swagger for sure is the King Ranch Expedition as cool as the King Ranch pickup truck.

I have to say the King Expedition, it's not as cool because personally I love trucks.

But it's pretty close.

Matt, you'll love it.

It's a body on frame, which I know is important to you.

True.

It's not a V8.

So sorry about that.

It's a twin turbo V6 with EcoBoost.

But it does have all of that distinctive styling that the truck has like bronze accents on the grill, the wheels, the body.

Those wheels are 22 inch wheels with like diamond cut machined aluminum detailing.

And then, of course, it has all of the King Ranch badging, which is that squiggly snake line inside and outside.

I mean, on the seats, on the tread plates, on the floor mats, it's kind of everywhere.

So if you are a fan of King Ranch and the King Ranch is a real place by the way, you'll probably like the Expedition SUV as well.

It is.

I think it's like the biggest ranch in America, right?

Yes.

The King Ranch, it's in South Texas.

I think it was incorporated in about 1853.

And of course, it's known for its beef cattle herd, but it also is a really prominent reader of quarter horses.

I did a little research on it because it is such a big deal.

They had a triple crown winner back in the 40s.

And it is a big brand in Texas.

In fact, I went, I was in Austin a few days ago and King Ranch has a store on South Congress basically close to Hermes doing leather work and stuff.

So it's kind of a big deal.

It's definitely a thing down here.

You know, it is so gigantic and the Expedition is so gigantic as well.

It's the biggest SUV that Ford makes and it's the same size as Tahoe or a Suburban if you get the Max version.

I wonder if Ford doesn't reintroduce at some point a big inch V8 to go into that SUV because they do have Godzilla, right?

They had the 7.3 liter V8 that goes into the trucks and the super duties and they did have a fantastic 6.2 liter V8 in the first generation Raptor

that I'm sure they got rid of due to cafe standards and other regulatory issues, but those regulations are now toothless in the era of Donald Trump.

So they could bring it back.

I think they could and maybe they even should.

I will say down here in Texas where everything is bigger, people seem to love the Expeditions.

I'm seeing them all over.

They especially love the tailpipes that are like three times the normal size.

I've been noticing a lot of those on the backs of Dooley's.

So it seems like that would be very welcome here in the great state of Texas.

I should say about that size thing, the turning radius on the King Ranch Expedition is not good and parking is a challenge.

Even down there?

Yeah, yeah, it is.

When you're trying to get in and out of like hotel valets and restaurant valets, it is a challenge.

There's definitely a blind spot when you're trying to change lanes.

I kind of cringe when I have to change lanes on going 85 on the freeways down here.

You really feel it.

It feels like you're driving an elephant.

I mean, that's just the truth.

Not that it's a bad thing, but it's certainly not a nimble lane changing car.

I'd say that.

I'm sure that the twin turbo V6 is fast enough, like it has enough power.

Yeah, sure.

And when they came out with that motor in the second gen Raptor, higher horsepower and torque numbers than the V8.

Everyone always asks me, why do I care?

And to me, there's a more fuller, warmer feeling when you're driving the bigger V8 than there is

when you're driving a smaller, more compact V6 that's got turbochargers in order to get better gas mileage.

I mean, one or two miles per gallon better, but it's not worth the trade off to me.

Yeah, I get it.

And that's totally valid.

This does not have an engine that's going to warm your heart.

There's no connection.

You don't feel it.

It's not a gutsy engine at all.

I think there might be just under 450 horsepower.

And honestly, I don't think anyone buys it for the power.

I just don't see it.

So you're probably right on that.

It'd be better to get something smaller with a bigger engine, I bet.

The other thing is, and this is not specific to Ford, but this is an expensive truck, right?

Oh, yeah, I was going to say.

The starting cost alone is like 70 grand.

And then you can easily option it out to 90 easily.

But I noticed today that or the last couple of days we got data from Cox Automotive.

So the average car price in America is now over $50,000.

That is wild to me.

I mean, I remember when it used to be sort of low 30s.

And now it does seem like everything's more expensive.

And that certainly does include new cars too.

Yeah, it's maddening.

I mean, the financing costs now are 9, 10% on average.

The monthly payment on average in America is 750 bucks a month.

And one in five people are paying more than $1,000 a month on a car payment.

That's wild.

Yeah, that's wild.

And I also know, obviously this we're talking about an SUV,

but the truck for the King, the F-150 King Ranch,

again, this is the best selling vehicle in America period for more than four decades,

the Ford F-150.

And a lot of those trucks are going for easy six figures because,

and you see it down here, people use them for work.

They're in them all day driving.

It's a rolling office.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's a fantastic vehicle.

And especially if you're in a big place with big parking spots,

then it makes all the sense because you can fit your whole family in it.

You can fit all the stuff you need in it.

I wonder if the F-Series, so I know it's the best selling nameplate in America,

but that includes F-150, F-250, F-350, the whole gamut.

And I wonder if General Motors actually sells more pickup trucks.

If you combine the GM, the Chevy Silverado and the GMC Sienna because,

you know, they're considered different.

And yes, it seems like an almost unfair comparison.

Is that sure?

I mean, that would be interesting.

I again, my perception is very heavily skewed right now because I'm in Texas

and Texas trucks are such a thing.

And I'm just seeing so many forwards.

So my perception is skewed.

But I think that's a great question we should find out actually.

Yeah.

And just see.

I think I'm pretty sure that if you total up all of GM's full size pickup trucks,

you're getting close to 900,000.

And if you total up all the F-Series, it's like 750.

Interesting.

So, but I know they love that, you know, best selling nameplate in America.

Hey, one of the cool things that I've done in Texas,

and I've only been able to do it in Texas,

just because I don't get to spend enough time in California,

is I rode in a driverless car in Austin in a Waymo.

Like I ordered it with the app and it was, I thought, very cool.

You wrote a story about Waymo versus Uber for Bloomberg.

What was the story?

Yes.

Well, the story was, it was simply set out to be,

hey, I'm a car person.

I like cars.

I own cars.

How will I feel about being in a driverless vehicle?

That is also electric.

And, you know, what's that like?

That was the whole very simple premise.

And I went into it sort of, you know, whatever, open to whatever.

I didn't have any expectations.

My first ride, the wait for the Waymo was 26 minutes,

which was unexpected.

And, you know, I had to have my husband drop me off within range

of the Waymo, because it's not within range of our house

in Hollywood.

So it kind of started out slow.

But I have to say by the end of the week,

I can really see a use case for Waymo's in cities like Austin.

Just like you said, in LA, I hope they come to New York.

They're training right now.

They're training the cars in New York.

There really is a use case for it for doing things like commuting,

which no car person likes commuting, you know?

And it was a very good experience besides that 26 minute way.

I started just scheduling them a little bit better.

And I really liked it.

And everybody I have spoken with who has ridden in a Waymo

is also a big fan.

They're converted.

Yeah, because you don't have to have someone else in the car.

For example, when I order an Uber, it gives you preferences.

How do you want the temperature?

And would you like a quiet ride?

You know, I don't necessarily want to have a conversation.

I will with the driver.

But I definitely don't want to hear someone else's music usually.

No.

And even when I choose quiet, they're still pumping out whatever

jams they're interested in or on the phone, you know, with their wife

or whatever, you know, and it's just never the way I want it.

Whereas I imagine you wouldn't have ever have those kind of problems

in a Waymo.

No, no.

And honestly, I thought that the Waymo would be a little bit

hesitating and faltering and not confident in its driving

as it's trying to read the environment.

And the Waymo was a far better driver than most of the Uber drivers.

You know, courteous, waiting for people to get in, but also getting out

of the way.

It was such a great driving machine.

And one thing that I've heard a lot of people say, especially girlfriends

of mine, people in the gay and trans communities, they actually prefer

Waymo because they are hassled a lot less.

They like not having to, like you say, make awkward conversation

with an Uber driver and even not be hassled by Uber drivers

who are a little aggressive or make creepy comments.

So that is a really important use case as well.

I wonder what they'll use because right now they have Jags,

or at least they did in Austin.

The I-Pace.

Yeah.

And this is pretty cool.

You know, you don't usually, you don't see too many of those around.

So it like stands out.

I wonder if they'll continue to use Jags because that brand is pretty much

toast, right?

I know.

From what I hear from Waymo, and I did reach out to them

and correspond with them, they are developing more cars using

the Jag I-Pace as the platform for it.

So that is what they're saying for the foreseeable future.

And they are, they're in Phoenix, LA, Austin and Atlanta right now,

San Francisco, and they are expanding as well to, you know,

five new cities in the new year, including Washington, DC and Miami.

And I think Dallas too, if I remember right, I know I wrote the story.

I have to go back and look, but they are really expanding

and to answer your question from what they say right now,

they're going to stick with the Jags.

So it will be really interesting to say.

I will say Uber was not happy with the story because not that it was

pitting Waymo against Uber at all.

It was simply reviewing Waymo, but really my big takeaway was,

if given the choice between a Waymo or an Uber,

I would definitely prefer the Waymo for all of the reasons we just said.

I mean, me too.

Yeah.

And not that I don't order DoorDash, but apparently they've got a new

partnership with Waymo so you can use it to deliver your food as well

and you don't have to deal with anybody in that case.

All right.

We're going to get to Formula one because you have a great story.

I shouldn't say that.

We're going to get to motor sports.

Yes.

You have a great story.

I mean, I loved it on the obsession that car makers right now have

with all different leagues and motorsports,

but it looks like F1 is the only one still paying off.

Kind of more on the other side of this break.

This is hot pursuit.

Hey, everyone, Ed Helms here.

And hi, I'm Cal Penn and we're the hosts of Irsay,

the Audible and I heart audio book club.

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth,

host of the I heart podcast.

I choose me to discuss the new audible adaptation of the timeless Jane

Austin classic pride and prejudice.

This is not a trick question.

There's no wrong answer.

What role would I play?

You know what?

I can see you as Mr. Darcy.

You got a little call in first.

Okay.

That's really sweet.

I appreciate that, but are you sure I'm not the dad?

I'm not Mr. Bennett here.

Listen to Irsay, the Audible and I heart audio book club on the I heart

radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is hot pursuit.

I'm Matt Miller along with Hannah Elliott and Hannah, you have a fantastic

story covering, you know, global motorsports and how all of the automakers

around the world are, you know, lining up to get involved in everything

from King of the Hammers to endurance racing.

But it seems so far only F one pays off.

Did I sum it up right?

Yeah.

Yeah, you got it.

It's a really interesting thing because I think we all are sensing it.

I'm definitely sensing it this because this weekend F ones in Austin.

So everyone in Texas is talking about F one.

And of course, you know, F ones got the $2 billion sponsorship market and

millions of TV viewers per race, et cetera, et cetera.

And everybody kind of wants in on that everybody, meaning the automakers,

the brands.

And so we are seeing so many brands, Audi, Cadillac, Ford, joining

different mo obviously formula one, but also endurance racing like Le Mans,

the world endurance championship series.

But also, you know, Jim Farley is talking about wanted wanting to develop

a supercar for the Baja 1000.

There's just so much in motorsport happening.

Of course, we've got Emsla racing.

We've got Indy car and you're right.

So far everyone's talking about it.

There's a lot of buzz, but F ones kind of the proven model.

Obviously we've got NASCAR, of course, in the U.S.

That's massive, but it's not growing.

It's not growing like F one has in like the potential we're seeing for

the other motorsport series.

There's just not a lot of proof that anyone's going to stick around.

I guess past the initial buzz.

Now I love, you know, the top of your story.

You started off with an anecdote about Jim Farley, who is he's really the

only automotive CEO that is a dedicated race car driver.

And to illustrate that point, he actually won the international

race of champions expedition at Laguna Seca.

Yeah, it was a it was a obviously I rock is no longer running, but it was

like an exhibition race at Laguna Seca during Monterey where he was driving

in the old cars and he won his class, which is really hard to do.

It's a pretty grueling thing to be out there and that heat in those old cars.

And he's totally legit.

He was he, of course, racing LeMond.

We saw we talked to him after one of his qualifying rounds, I think at LeMond.

He's I mean, he's he's the real thing.

He's not winning every race, but he's out there and he's he's doing pretty

well, which is great.

And he thinks it's important.

I mean, the funny thing is you point out that he plays mid pack in the Mustang

challenge, but I do want to I think it's illuminating to understand that the

Mustang challenge is a client race.

So that's the people that he sells to.

Those are his clients.

And yeah, it may be a bad look if he beats them all, right?

Yes.

So he didn't win, but the I rock exhibition he did win.

So it's like maybe he was trying a little a little harder at Laguna Seca.

I mean, Jim Farley is not a dumb man.

He is a very smart man.

And yes, I think he knows how to read a room very well.

So also, you know, risk versus reward, it doesn't look good for any executive

to put any type of car into a wall or take it off the track.

So he's he's got to watch it a little bit.

I think he's probably, you know, he may be going 9.9 out of 10, just to make

sure, you know, we don't want any bad PR around the races.

We don't want to lose our CEO also.

Exactly.

Well, that too.

That too.

I mean, but clearly he and he's really told us, look, it's important.

It's not just about race on Sunday, sell on Monday.

It's important for us to be a part of the conversation.

These motorsport series are big networking opportunities for customers,

for people who are involved with the brand, for advisors, consultants,

for investors.

It's not just about selling cars.

That's part of it, of course.

But there's a whole ecosystem that motorsport involves and that is growing.

There are three hugely important, culturally important races known as the

Triple Crown, right?

We went to the mall.

There is the Monaco Grand Prix.

And then there's the Indy 500 and, you know, three different leagues here.

One of those stands out above all the rest in terms of viewership,

at least according to their numbers.

Yeah, the Monaco race.

They say a billion people watch the F1 race in Monaco.

It's, I mean, I guess we have to believe it if that's what the rating is.

It's incredible.

And you know what?

When I talk to my little cousins who are, you know, early 20s professional career

girls, they follow Formula One.

And just last night I was asking a couple of them at dinner, which race would you

want to go if you could go to one F1 race?

And they live in Texas and they said the Monaco race.

So there is this just incredible mystique and prestige around it that is also

drawing in young new fans as well.

It's really interesting.

Yeah.

I'm not sure which I would want to go to.

Of those three, I mean, we had so much fun at Le Mans.

I know.

It was amazing.

But I've never been to the Indy 500.

That's got to be a massive party, right?

It's got to be a massive party.

That's, yes, you're right.

You're right.

I mean, maybe you and I should do our own triple crown where we go to each race

together.

I'm in.

And we do and we share it with everyone because we need to get to the Indy 500

for sure.

I've not been.

No, I definitely want to go.

I do think that there's an argument world endurance racing passes down more

important technology than many other leagues.

But F1 is the most famous for giving us things that we use on the road today,

right?

Yes, totally.

And I have to say, I think the Monaco race is really fan friendly and very

accessible for people from everywhere in the city.

And we cannot say the same about Le Mans as much as we love it, right?

Well, I think, well, I haven't been to the race in Monaco.

I've been to other F1 races.

And in my experience, if you're with really rich people, it's so much better

to watch these things.

Well, yes.

And that, that may be life in general sometimes, although not all the time.

I prefer watching a lot of racing on.

So my wife and I go to a lot of MotoGP races.

And it's great because we know people on the paddock and we have kind of

access and we get to sort of meet our heroes.

But when the lights go off, I'm watching TV, even when I'm there.

Yeah.

I totally get it.

You know, that's funny.

Last night, I went to a Starz game, the hockey team here in Dallas.

And I just bought the cheap seats, the $20 seats way up in the rafters.

And you do end up just watching it on TV.

But I've been in suites at other sporting events and you're right.

You end up kind of watching it on TV there too.

So same difference.

Yeah.

Everyone should enjoy as much racing as possible.

All right, we have one more quick pit stop with the advertisers.

And then we're going to be back to talk about Ferrari's new all-electric ride

and the potential for a gated shifter.

This is hot pursuit.

This is not a trick question.

There's no wrong answer.

What role would I play?

You know what?

I can see you as Mr. Darcy.

You got a little call in first.

Okay, that's really sweet.

I appreciate that.

But are you sure I'm not the dad?

I'm not Mr. Bennett here.

You get your podcasts.

These are the special incredibly high price tag vehicles I heard.

For example, that you can order one with a gated shifter, which got me very excited.

Next time I come up with $4 million, I'll put it in my order.

But are you going to sell more of those in the mix along with the F80?

I think that we have always to make sure that this icon and this supercar are limited.

There was a clear message from a clear chart from our CFO

that was telling that the number of icons and supercars will not go more than 5%.

And we want to stick to it.

I think that to have our client happy, he has to feel that he owns something

that not too many people can have it.

And I think this is the business model of Ferrari.

Scarcity must be managed well, and we have to take care of the client.

This is important.

I do want to talk a little bit more directly about electric Ferraris

because you lowered your targets to 20% of the lineup by 2030.

Previously, it had been 40%.

We'd love to hear a little bit more about that decision to lower the target.

The reason why we drop or reduce or trim down the split of the 20% of the offer

is because we have seen what is happening around us.

So we pushed the number of models overall has been increased overall.

And number two, in this mix, we increased the thermal.

I see.

When are we going to see the body in white?

And when are we going to hear it?

Because apparently it's going to be amplified more.

Within H1 next year.

We keep delivering on our promises.

Phase one, done.

Phase two is going to be, let's say, in Q1.

Phase two in Q2.

We've been in Q2.

Can I talk about something that you probably are sick of hearing it from me?

No.

Analog versus digital, right?

You're putting buttons back on the steering wheel in the Amalfi, which I'm very excited about.

Not only in Amalfi.

In all the car of this year.

So that's fantastic.

I imagine customers ask for that, right?

You've still got fields of screens in there.

And I've driven a number of very expensive cars where they have screens

replacing these elegant and beautiful analog gauges.

You know, why don't we go back to clocks that are an animal with, you know, needles?

Wouldn't that be more exciting for a Ferrari buyer?

Look, we said clearly that we are a big fan of digital.

It means that you use digital where it's needed and physical where it's needed.

I can tell you that all the time this year we presented the five cars.

The two, Speciale, six-cylinder, the two Testarossa, Spider & Coop,

and the Ferrari Amalfi.

When we told our client in the entire world that we are going back to the button where you fill it,

okay, without touching, without looking, because when you drive you need to look at the road.

Well, that was a big, big applause we had.

So we will use digital where it's needed and physical where it's needed.

Can I just ask about the shifters?

Because I spend so much time on bringing a trailer.

I'm looking at 360s.

I'm looking at 430s.

You know, sometimes 575s and 612s.

And I noticed that the premium for a manual is massive.

50, 60, 70 percent, sometimes even double for the manual car versus the auto box.

So doesn't that mean customers want to buy that new too?

Look, you have to listen to a client for something.

For something else, you cannot listen.

For something else, maybe some good hint for the future.

So maybe in the future you can just make a suggestion box

and Matt can put his comments directly in there before me.

Yes, do come to see us.

There you go.

So that was the interview that we did this week with Ferrari CEO Benedetto Vigna,

our thanks to the clothes and Katie Greifeld for that.

But Hannah, I thought some really interesting things came out of this.

Mainly the fact that he seemed to imply we may get a manual transmission back in new Ferraris.

This is incredible and it's really a complete about face.

If we can believe if we're going to go forward and believe that's what's happening.

This is huge.

I mean, it's what everybody in the collector market seems to want and real enthusiast quote-unquote.

I mean, do you really believe that this is likely?

I do.

He used the word fidgetle, which is a Portman 2 of physical and digital.

So he basically was telling me, look, we're going to keep the digital experience to the extent that,

because I was like, why use screens instead of going back to analog gauges?

He clearly wants that, but he does want more physical interaction with the car.

That's why they're going back to buttons on the steering wheel.

Well, I just did a story on that.

A lot of people are doing that.

I know you did.

And so I feel like, you know, the most important physical interaction with your car has to be a stick shift in this kind of vehicle.

Right?

If you're talking about a GT car.

And this kind of, to me, this ties together our whole podcast because self-driving,

sorry, what is it called?

Driverless.

Autonomous driving is, I think at some point, going to be the way forward.

And electric cars as well, you know, we're going to be in a future where everybody is commuting in an autonomous electric vehicle.

And perhaps even where you're not allowed to drive your own car on U.S. highways,

because that would then be dangerous in a world where car accidents are a thing of the past.

So it's only going to be like the collectors, the enthusiasts, the people who really care,

just like the same people who ride horses now, right?

You don't see them on the highway.

Or wear a mechanical wristwatch.

Yes.

Or that.

So I think, you know, they're only going to want manual transmission cars for the most part.

Just like if you look on auction sites, as I was talking about with Benedetto Vigna,

you'll see if you want to buy a 360, you're going to pay a lot more for the six speed.

And in fact, on BAT, it'll say six speed in for any, even 911s in the headline,

because they know that's much more valuable.

Totally.

I think you're very right.

And I don't think that these autonomous vehicles are mutually exclusive with collectible,

engaging cars to drive.

Just what you said.

These are not mutually exclusive things.

I do believe they can exist together even at Ferrari as they're coming out next year

with their electric car, the Electrica.

I probably should say that with an Italian accent.

They drop like a C or something, right?

Yeah, it is.

It's like Electrica.

You know, so Ferrari is moving forward into that space.

And then if they are coming out with some sort of manual shifting to that,

that completely illustrates the idea that we can have both.

It's again, it's two different tools for two different jobs,

which I think everyone's okay with.

They don't have to be mutually exclusive at all.

Well, I hope I understood him correctly because it would be so cool.

I think especially in, look, I get that on the higher powered cars for our engineers say,

well, we can't make a manual transmission that will deal with this much power.

I understand that.

Maybe that's true.

Okay, you can buy a Hellcat with a manual or you could.

But for a car like the Roma, which is now the Amalfi,

I think that's where it works perfectly because that's where you're not looking for

two tents on a track, right?

That's where you want to just enjoy your experience on the back roads.

Pure driving engagement, pure driving enjoyment.

As we, as we know, I do love the Roma and I'm looking forward to driving the Amalfi soon.

And yes, that makes perfect sense to me.

We all know.

I mean, nobody who is not a professional driver can handle eight or 900 horsepower

with it with years with the gearbox.

No way.

That's just ridiculous.

All right.

Well, that does it for today.

I guess now I just got so excited that I can't believe we're in the show here.

But we covered a lot of ground today.

Oh, I have to also say the truck hole, it's, I'm wearing it currently and it's, it's working

great.

Your giant, your giant belt buckle.

That's right.

We never came, came back to that.

So that has an actual key in it.

Yeah.

It has a place to store the key.

It's the, the same key Ford has across all its products, but this has a little carrier

for it.

Love it.

Yeah.

It's cool.

All right.

Well, I look forward to seeing you again here.

Same time, same place next week.

That does it for this week's show.

Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple Spotify and anywhere else you listen.

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I'm Matt Miller.

And I'm Hannah Elliott.

We'll be back in your podcast feed again next week.

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Touring Texas in a Ford Expedition King Ranch & Ferrari's Electric Plans

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