Toyota's New Supercar, Mustang Longevity, the Best Lexus, and a Surprising SUV

Hello and welcome to the Auto Guide show.

Kyle and I this week drive some Mustangs, he drives another VA, and I drive some other

vehicles, and Toyota is pre-debuting a debut.

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Okay, so kicking things off is another one of these weird things that Toyota's been doing

with this new supercar they're bringing out where they keep just kind of showing it or

putting it in odd places in Japan without telling anyone.

I don't know if it's like a genius marketing campaign or exactly what's going on, but a

commercial appeared last night with what I guess is going to be called the Toyota GR-GT.

I think that's what its name is going to be.

And it once again showed it with Toyota's two biggest icons.

It was the 2000 GT and the Lexus LFA on a track and each drove by and you heard its

engine noise in the dark and especially this new one's very silhouetted.

And then it said like the passion lives on or something and then that it's going to debut

on the 5th, I believe.

So that's next Friday.

Yep.

So first, there's a billboard at the Super Formula Race that just kind of came out of

nowhere.

And now this commercial and it's not anywhere but Japan, but it's in English, which is extra

confusing.

So yeah, I mean, I'm super looking forward to this.

I still am not sure if we will get the Toyota here or we'll just get the Lexus.

There's so much unknown and so much debate about will they be the same car just slightly

different?

Different drivetrains based on the same platform, like will it be uniquely different?

I mean, that's my assumption is that they're going to have very different powertrains.

Same platform, but different.

I think the weird thing with leading up to this is using the LFA to frame it because

Lexus has its own sports car coming.

Why?

Like, it doesn't.

It's strange to me that Toyota didn't showcase this in Tokyo when I was there a month ago,

but I guess there was so much other news that this can wait a little bit.

Yeah, it's a very strange day, too, right?

It started the last weekend of F1, but they're not really officially.

I mean, GR's got their sponsor on the HOTS, but I don't think they're bringing it there.

So I guess maybe they just figured nothing's happening now, so we'll get all the headlines.

But you're right with the LFA.

I mean, I get it.

The 2000 GTs, like the icon from the 60s, the LFA was amazing, but then why not have

both cars?

And I agree.

I believe this will be that V8 turbo crazy engine they've been developing forever.

I think the Lexus will probably be electric or hybrid at a minimum.

Yeah, but if you use the Corvette as a base, it's like, well, then maybe the Toyota is

like the regular Stingray and then the Lexus is the E-Ray?

Is that like where they'd compare?

It's like, you know, you put the hybrid system in the Lexus ones that you can differentiate.

I think they'll go electric, just to really be like, there are two directions.

Like, look at how cool we are at their old school gas engines and look how, I don't know.

This one angle of it from the back, speaking of Corvette, sure has a C7 look to it with

the way the greenhouse on the window goes and the fuel flares.

But I guess, too, when you're making an aerodynamic front engine shape, there's only so much you

can play with and have to fit probably ridiculously massive tires.

Like, we don't even know anything about this.

We're just assuming the V8's under there.

I mean, that's what it sounds like.

And that's what they've shown us before.

But yeah, it's an odd campaign, but maybe, like, I get doing little things to create

buzz, but only a few of us happen to stumble over this.

It's not like it's this thing that everyone's like, oh, my God, look at this.

And everyone's talking about it.

So, well, got a week left, right?

Yeah, they've got the big debut happening next week and people are going to be there

to cover it.

So we'll find out everything then.

It's just, yeah, I don't know.

It's funny to me because people complain about how the Supra costs money and this is definitely

going to cost more.

There's no way it'll cost less than a Supra.

And at the same time, I'm just like, when Toyota wants to do something like the LFA

or the 2000 GT, when it puts its mind to something, it tends to do a really good job.

So I am very optimistic about this, but yeah, like it's wild how little we know, which I

guess maybe is kind of a correction from when we knew everything about the Supra for years.

I think to your price point, that's why they're using the LFA.

They have their million dollar supercar from the 60s that was expensive then.

Then the LFA, which was crazy capable, expensive.

If you'd went like 2000 GT Supra, which would make sense on a Toyota vane, then when this

is going to be at least 911 money, probably more depending on performance.

So people are like, oh, this isn't a Supra successor.

And they're trying to make it seem like, no, no, this is like an LFA successor.

Yeah.

So like LC currently, GR GT, and then whatever the Lexus is.

LFR, I think people are saying it's going to be called.

Which is a good, I like that.

Yeah.

I mean, this car too makes sense because even if they don't plan to sell much, and it's

expensive, but now they have a GT3 platform for Supra GT and for other racing around the

world.

And they can maybe even expand into a hypercar off this.

So I get, yeah.

I mean, I'm not going to complain about a sports car.

By the time we do this next week, we'll probably know.

Do you know if it's being shown in Japan?

I assume there are.

I hear that people will be seeing something next week.

All right.

So moving on to, well, one other V8.

You and I, seems like a lifetime ago, just a couple months ago, drove a pair of Mustangs.

I had the EcoBoost automatic coupe and you had the V8 manual convertible.

Is that right?

Yes.

Manual convertible.

So it's weird.

You had the performance drivetrain and the touring body, and I had the touring drivetrain

and the performance body.

But you can talk about yours in a bit.

The point of this, it wasn't even a comparison, it was like a feature, is the Mustang is the

last muscle car standing again.

This has happened a couple of times in his lifetime now.

And the reason being is the Camaro always needs to be a performance car, not just a

muscle car, not just a straight line.

It's always been an all around car.

The Challenger is pure muscle car, big and beefy.

The Mustang's always kind of been all sorts of things.

Like, yeah, there's been some low lights and even in a Fox body, like sub 100 horsepower,

four cylinders.

But that's why it survives is it's there's a lot of different versions.

And I had like the almost base with a lot of frill options, not performance options put

on top.

So, yeah, and it didn't drive like a sporty performance car.

Didn't have the tires for it or the brakes.

It did have the active exhaust, which is weird because it made the EcoBoost very loud and

it doesn't sound that good.

But yeah, it's if someone just wanted a big rear drive kind of old school coupe or just

a performance or a sporty car without having to pay for the crazy performance.

That's what I had.

Yeah, and I think like I drove the EcoBoost convertible last year and I think and you

drove a V8 performance pack.

So we kind of swapped around.

I think the thing that people tend to lose track of is like, I mean, the Mustang debuted

as like an affordable, not super sporty, but stylish coupe, right?

Like that was that was it.

It was only once Shelby really got his hands on it.

I mean, there was always a GT, but like really once Shelby tuned it and kind of unlocked

this performance side of it, that's when people really started focusing on the performance

aspect of a pony car, right?

But like a pony car was meant to just be an affordable, stylish thing.

And I think that's why the Mustang, like you said, has survived for so long, because it's

being a fairly approachable price point.

I mean, looking at the prices of them now, it's not really a value anymore, right?

Like you're paying quite a lot of money.

If you want a V8, especially the premium.

Yeah, it's a lot.

You're almost at 50 grand now.

Yeah, it's crazy just to get a V8.

But you're right.

Like the original Mustang, the 289 GT was performance, but it's also mid to early 60s

when a lot of things were.

And then Shelby had the 65, 350 and it dominated.

And then also the muscle car wars really took off.

So everything needs power.

But driving that performance pack GT last year, it doesn't even feel like I was in the

same car as what I was in the Seiko Boost.

And I think that's a good thing.

It's because there's a variety.

They look similar, but that was such a buttoned down, tuned up performance car and was so

fun to drive.

And then this is just a bit of a cruiser.

So yeah, as long as this platform exists, Mustangs will exist.

But will this platform exist much longer?

They've already kind of rehashed it a couple of times.

Yeah.

Well, and going back to my car, it is still kind of a tourer too.

I know that it was a V8, a manual, and it has the performance package.

But when you get the performance package, you don't get all the bits that you would

on the coupe.

Because I think Ford realizes that people want a stylish, noisy, fun to drive and drop

top.

And really, there's not a lot like it on the market, which, again, probably contributes

to the Mustang's enduring appeal.

Right?

Yeah.

You had the sort of everything.

It had a bit of everything on yours.

You pay for it too.

Yeah, but that's the thing, right?

It's like power to the people.

Whatever people want from a Mustang, it tends to deliver, whereas the other cars are kind

of pigeonholed into their own niches and thus don't exist anymore.

I almost wonder if they could even have a more affordable Mustang with an even less

powerful engine.

Because the EcoBoost is 310 or 315 horsepower, but they don't really have anything, especially

that points that way.

You'd have to make a new engine, which would be pointless.

Yeah.

Moving on.

So I drove the 2026 GMC Terrain Denali, and you and I haven't driven the Equinox or the

Terrain since they were all new, not even a year ago, for 25.

But the 26 is already out.

And for the Terrain specifically, that's because it got the 84 and Denali back.

So last gen, pre-25, there was the Denali.

I drove the last gen Denali when it got its refresh in 22, 23?

I can't remember.

22.

Because I feel like, yeah, you would just come back.

So it was a very competent vehicle.

But that was that.

It wasn't a front runner and it wasn't terrible.

It was just fair.

And you got the Denali name.

So going into this, I had no idea what to expect because we haven't driven the new one.

And I was actually very surprised at how good this is in most aspects.

So start with the good.

They're really good.

Inside, it looks nice.

It looks like a Denali.

And it has dual screen like almost every GM does.

But this one's different.

It has a 15-inch vertical screen, which I'm not usually a fan of.

And it sticks out of the center console a bit or the center stack.

But it doesn't go above the dash.

That's a huge plus.

But the cool thing is there are like three pods I can fully customize.

And the top one I can have as CarPlay.

So I can have a big rectangular CarPlay or I can have the entire 15 inches of CarPlay.

But if I keep that, then I can have two pods below to put whatever I want.

So I can have full CarPlay functionality, my audio information,

and trip, the other nav, whatever I wanted down there.

And then at the bottom, there's a row of toggle switches which control the climate control

and whatever you're controlling is digitally put above.

So that can change too.

Or you can actually push the touch screen.

So you get the full option.

But it's nice having physical switches.

And then there's a lot of other physical switches.

And then the Driver Information Center is digital, like pretty much every GM is.

I don't even know if you can get analog in GM anymore.

And it's customizable.

So not only the tech is so well laid out, and everything's where I wanted it,

and I could see it, it was so easy to change too.

Again, I'm a big CarPlay person and I love Waze.

I could put the standard Denali navigation in my Driver Information Center,

like my gauge area, or I could put Waze.

And that's unusual.

Usually it's one or the other, or you don't get your smartphone.

I got to go through two windows of navigation, which is awesome too.

So I mean, we won't get into that GM is going to just kill CarPlay altogether soon.

But right now, it's such an amazing integration.

It's kind of crazy.

This is the company that's getting rid of it.

Like this is shot to one of my favorite infotainment systems,

like potentially even better than Uconnect.

Like it's just so well done.

And then it has a frequency damper suspension technology,

which basically takes the frequency of the wheels and changes how it reacts.

And it works really well.

It's not the softest, cushiest ride, but it also isn't a crazy handler.

Like it's a nice balance where it remains flat enough for what you need in the corners,

and it absorbs bumps well enough.

It's just a good balance.

The whole vehicle, driving it, sitting in it, looking at it,

it feels like a half-class more premium than what it competes against.

Yet price-wise, at least for the one I tested,

is actually less than a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid Limited or a Honda CR-V Hybrid Sport Touring.

Those are both, they're fully loaded models.

Now I could have paid more for the moonroof,

which this didn't have, and I think one or two other things.

And then that would have put it slightly higher.

But you'd expect an Olli GMC would be like five grand more, 10 grand more.

And it's not.

It's actually even less than a Super Forester, fully loaded, slightly.

Hybrid.

Non-hybrid is a little bit more.

So what's the catch?

So the big issue is what's under the hood.

And that is the 1.5 liter turbo is still there.

Now it makes 175 horsepower and 203 pound-feet of torque, which is fully class competitive.

Every one in that class base engine is that or less, like overall power.

And it's quite torquey, like around town, get us up and goes fine.

On the highway, you feel the power deficit more.

It's still fine.

Like you can always merge and pass without problem.

But when you're driving something with the Denali on it, you want more of everything.

Like I have more tech, more comfort, more luxury, and I want more power.

The price of all those vehicles I mentioned all make more power.

Like the hybrids, especially from Toyota and Honda are well into the 200s.

The Mazda CX-50, which is about the same price for its turbo fully loaded, is at $250.

And the thing's stuck at $175.

And they have a two liter that makes 228 horsepower just sitting in the Buick Envision

and the former Cadillac AT...

XE4.

Yeah.

And I remember last gen, I said the same thing.

How hard would it be to just put that in here?

I have no idea how it would match up to transmissions.

Maybe you need to get its transmission and put the whole thing in here.

It would make this such an amazing package.

But as it stands, it's still really good.

And it doesn't get great gas mileage, which you'd think, oh, because it has a small engine.

No.

It's like 24 city, 26 highway.

Because it's working so hard.

And I just think it's carrying a decent amount of weight.

Nothing at the high end gets great gas mileage unless you're a hybrid.

And that's why a lot went to hybrid.

I mean, if they had a hybrid, put that in here.

But we know in this size, GM doesn't.

Well, the interesting thing you're saying, it surprisingly undercuts some competitors.

That feels like there's room then for GM to just throw the two liter in there.

And if it ended up being, let's say, two grand more, I mean, whatever, right?

Because then you have class competitive power, but a nicer experience elsewhere.

And GM, they always give you lots of options of choice.

So you can even make it an option.

You can get the optional upgraded engine if you want.

Yeah.

Anyway, we got to move on, because we got a big show ahead.

So Kyle, you drove one of both of our favorite cars once again,

because we need to every once in a while.

Yeah, yeah.

I think this was a while back.

And I think you had booked it, and then you had something come up,

which meant that you weren't able to take it.

And so, yeah, it's the 2025 Lexus LC 500.

I don't even...

This is actually weirdly a hard one to write about,

because I don't know what else to say about it, because it's so good.

Every time, I'm just like, why isn't this the most popular grand tour?

Why is this selling only a couple hundred a year?

I mean, Lexus canceled the hybrid this year quietly,

because it only ever ended up selling a couple hundred over its entire production run.

Why would you want a hybrid when it looks like this?

And when the five liter V8 is so good.

It's kind of funny that we're talking about the Mustangs and this,

since genetically, they're kind of similar.

Five liter V8, 470-ish horsepower, rear drive, 10-speed auto.

Yeah, I actually don't think I'd want a manual in an LC.

I don't think it would work.

That's not the character of the car, no.

Yeah, like you said, you could write this up in less than a paragraph.

Be like, supercar looks, fantastic engine sound, smooth at everything.

That's so smooth and like an incredibly well put together interior.

This was the first time I drove the coupe though.

I've only ever driven the convertible.

So it was interesting to get behind this one.

I don't think I like it as much.

I mean, it's still fantastic.

I love copper crest and this one had the toasted caramel interior.

So it was a lot of like warm tones, but I want the convertible.

I want to be able to drop the roof and hear that V8.

So all I can say is, you know, keep buying them, whoever is buying them.

And hopefully, I don't know, maybe we can start a nice rumor that they're not good.

And so residuals take a crash and then I can get one cheap in a few years.

That's my goal.

You haven't been doing a good job with all your reviews of it so far.

So yeah, well, yeah.

All right, so moving on to our last vehicle.

I drove the Fiat 500e Giorgio Armani Collector's Edition.

And that is the official name.

It is long.

So sort of like you just said, I drove the 500e.

I didn't even know if it was a year ago.

Yeah, and I quite liked it.

Like it's a, it is a Fiat 500.

It's just half as the electric.

All the things about the 500 remain.

It fits two people fine, four people not really.

This one's actually a little bigger.

And I did have the family and we could go small distances.

It doesn't have a ton of range, but it's not meant to.

It can go on the highway fine.

It can drive anywhere fine, but it's really meant for a commuter slash city car.

And in that vein, it does great.

And yeah, it doesn't, like I said, doesn't have much range,

but it has a 42 kilowatt hour battery.

Okay, so that's fine.

Yeah, and it charges at my stage two charger at home for like,

it was less than $2 from under 50%.

So like I could drain this thing and charge it for like four bucks.

And that's going to give me more mileage I need on a day-to-day basis.

And the only thing that I will say is the Giorgio Armani package

gives you the GA logo on the wheel covers,

on the headrests all around, you get a signature on the dash,

a signature in the windows.

But like there's that, but everything else is subtle.

It's got exclusive paint, but it's like,

I think it's 2,800 more than the fully loaded 500E in the States

and like 3,500 in Canada.

It's just, there's no point.

I mean, unless you absolutely are a huge fan of his and want this,

it's like go down a level, save even more money

and still have a great little city commuting EV.

So yeah, I just don't know who it's directed towards, but.

Yeah, the Venn diagram of like huge Armani fan,

also city car EV buyer.

Yeah, maybe it doesn't work.

Yeah, well, that wraps up our news and reviews

on the Auto Guide show brought to you by eBay Motors.

We will take a break and then Kyle and I will be back

with a special guest that many of you may know.

And then I'll be back with Colm after that.

And then Kyle will return to wrap things up.

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All right, welcome back to the show.

We have a special guest today, a friend of mine,

a former colleague.

Craig, if you could just introduce yourself

for our listeners, please.

A special guest, you're really ginning that up, Mike.

I'd say maybe just a regular guest

ordinary at best.

But great to be here.

Good to see you guys.

It's been a while.

I saw you, Kyle, not too long ago.

What were we on?

The Silverado Drive a couple months back.

Yes, that's right.

Yes, you were on the previous wave.

I was on the incoming wave and we said hello

and that was about it.

Yeah, which is all too common in this industry, right?

They're like, oh, hey, friend

that we see a handful of times a year,

never in our own local areas.

Oh, no, it's not allowed.

You can't do that.

No, you can't wander out of home turf.

So for our long-term viewers, readers, and listeners,

you'll recognize Craig Cole's voice.

He was the face of Autoguide.

Me and Craig were taking turns going back and forth

doing reviews on videos for years.

And for newer listeners, well, go back

and check out some of his stuff.

May I suggest the Autoguide reads mean tweets.

Oh, yeah, seriously.

And of course...

That was your brainchild, Mike, if I remember correctly.

It was and it worked well for a year or two.

Then people just got real mean and then...

You incentivized them.

Yeah, yeah, they realized that they might get a part on it.

So they had to really lean in.

I remember spending like literally a week

before that every year having to go through every comment

that was basically said for the year

and then filter out, okay, these are too mean.

I'm not reading these.

These are just aren't even creative.

They're just mean.

And then, okay, this is misogynistic.

That's exactly mean, sexist.

Yeah, you got to cull the herd.

Yeah, and I'm like, okay, these ones are funny enough.

And whoever has to say them will laugh.

But yeah, oh, yeah.

Like the stuff I would actually delete hundreds of comments.

You have to.

It was actually like an end of the year like job.

Yeah, like if we saw a terrible one, we do it on the fly.

But, and there's also, we have filters.

They're still to this day that would capture certain words.

So I would go through there too.

And yeah, like there's tweets or not tweets.

There's YouTube comments that people never saw the light of day.

And we're probably better off not seeing them.

But I'd read them.

So I got to, yeah.

You have internalized the pain.

Yeah, like soul is just a little damaged now.

A little bit of it was left to Peter Street back in the day.

So anyway, Craig, you have been in this industry probably longer than I have.

And I feel like, well, maybe not the industry,

but you've been doing the review game.

I mean, I was in the industry since I was 19,

which I've spent more than half my life with cars, which is crazy.

Yeah, I've been doing automotive media for just shy of 20 years now as a full-time job,

which I look back and I'm like, how is this?

First of all, how is this a thing?

Number one.

And number two, how is it still a thing?

It's hard to believe that this is a job because it kind of shouldn't be in a way.

But here we are.

And I've only been in 15 years.

So you definitely have a lot on me.

But like, it's crazy how I like cars.

And when I was 19, I'm like, I'm going to get a dealership and wash cars.

And from there, I just never turned back.

Yeah.

Anyway, let's talk about you.

So what got you started with cars?

Were you like born into a car family?

Or is it something that you developed your own interest on?

I kind of developed my own interest, I guess.

My dad is a, well, he's retired now, but he was a machinist.

So he was very hands-on.

He would basically work with metal and heavy machinery to make things,

to either make products or make the tooling that would manufacture products.

So he was very hands-on.

He built several of the houses we lived in over the years.

I don't know how you work 50 or 60 hours in a shop,

and then you go and spend the rest of the evening digging footings

or putting up walls or running electrical wiring.

I don't know how you do that and not just die from exhaustion.

But he did it a couple of times.

There's some drugs, but we should talk about those ones.

Maybe.

Why does dad never sleep?

I don't know.

Or he's a vampire.

Maybe he's a vampire, yeah.

So he was very hands-on, and that's kind of where I learned that from.

But he's very much into motorcycles.

That was always his thing.

And I never, ever liked motorcycles as a kid.

I thought they were, even as a youngster,

I thought they were dangerous and way too loud.

I didn't like the noise.

I was a very sensible youth.

I was born an old person.

But my interest in cars was kind of branched off of motorcycles

and the technical side of stuff.

Because I love working on cars, fixing them, upgrading them.

I've restored a car.

We did a 36 Ford V8 sedan.

Maybe you guys have seen that.

Basically, took the body off the frame.

Everything.

Every nut and bolt and bracket and assembly has been gone through

and cleaned, replaced, refurbished, whatever.

All the bodywork.

Tons of welding and replacing of steel panels here, there, and everywhere.

But that car has been done for about 10 years now.

I didn't learn my lesson because I'm working on a 51 Ford right now.

So doing the same thing, basically.

You learned a lesson.

Let's just get a slightly newer one.

Exactly, exactly.

Well, the problem with the newer one is restoring a Ford from the 30s is hard enough.

It's not an easy task.

The 51 Ford has like 10,000 more parts.

Just a few short years, they somehow managed to make the vehicle

like several orders of magnitude more complicated.

It's funny you say that because I worked a lot on a 90 Miata once that I do.

And I couldn't believe the simplicity of it compared to cars of the last 15 years even.

Oh, there's actually just four bolts to take the seat out.

So I get the older the car, it's harder to find parts and it's more manual work.

But it was just put together with screws and bolts, which is nice.

But it's funny you say you're a born and rolled man.

Most people our age are into 80s and 90s cars.

Craig's always been into his 1930s Ford.

I remember you were ripping apart that V8 and talking about parts that I didn't even

knew existed.

Uh-huh.

It's funny.

I don't know how people are going to restore cars that are new today.

I guess you're just going to have to 3D print everything.

Because everything is made of plastic and everything seems to disintegrate after 15 years.

Wiring connectors, interior trim, headlight brackets, whatever.

It just crumbles.

And no one's making replacement parts, right?

Like the OEMs are discontinuing after 15 years.

So it's like your car is a paper.

We're done.

Go buy a new one.

Unless it's a 90s Camry.

In which case, after 15 years, it's just past its worn-in period.

Exactly.

It's just getting started.

Yeah.

Pretty much any Toyota.

You want something that lasts, just go get a Lexus or Toyota.

You'll be fine.

Yeah.

AI replicators in a couple of years that you just go up to it and say,

I want a 91 Scirocco or something.

Uh-huh.

Print it out.

You're like, all right, here I go.

Six wheels instead of four.

It's like you've got six fingers, right?

Yeah.

And it'll say like RW on the badge for some reason.

Yeah.

But you know, it's basically the same.

Just don't go over above 30.

Those are the early ones.

Yeah.

We'll have to iron things out.

But yeah, no, that's cool.

I didn't know you were working on 51.

I'll take a look at that.

So obviously you developed your interest.

What got you into this world?

Did you go to school for it?

Or did you just kind of stumble into it?

Like 99% of us?

Yes, I kind of went to school for it, sort of.

So I wanted to be a mechanical engineer when I got to the university, to college.

But then calculus happened.

And I don't know why I thought I could just magically understand high-level math

at the university level when I've literally hated math throughout my

schooling career, elementary school on up.

So I don't know why I thought like, oh, I'll just figure it out at college.

Well, guess what?

I didn't.

So finally, I got to like calculus.

I just said, this is not for me.

I wish I could be an engineer.

I think it'd be a fantastic career path.

But I just could not do the math.

I couldn't make myself do the math.

There wasn't like the interest there.

And I couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel to force myself to do it.

So I pivoted over to journalism instead.

So I got my bachelor's degree in journalism.

I got a minor in political science.

And I kind of had to do an internship when I was at college.

So I did that with Autoline many years ago.

Autoline Detroit, they used to call it with John McElroy.

So that's where I kind of got started in this industry.

And then after I worked there for six or seven years, I got hired by Autoguide.

So I had met Colm, Colm Wood at, I think it was the Indy 500

that I was sent to over like Memorial Day weekend one year.

And that's where I met Colm.

And then he had a job opening and remembered me and reached out.

And that's how I got started with you guys.

When did you start at Autoguide?

Because I think it was just before I did.

Yes, I remember it was a little bit before you.

Because I think the first review you did was like an Acura or something.

It was, yeah.

Acura TSX.

Yeah, I remember that.

No, TLX, the first TLX.

Yeah.

So yeah, it would have been like late 2012, I think was when I started.

Okay, yeah.

I think I came very early 2013.

Yeah, so just a couple of months.

There was another guy doing reviews and he had left.

And Colm and I had been talking about it for a while.

Like I remember talking about it probably when you started.

Because we were discussing it at the LA Auto Show.

And I just had to kind of sit on it and wait because he had to get all the approval.

And then I was...

I'll remember because it was so strange.

But I got the official offer when I was way up north in Alaska driving Mercedes sprinter vans.

And I had to sign the offer.

I had a good friend of mine, Leslie, be the witness up there.

Because there was like four of us.

I had to find somewhere to fax it back because it was still those days.

Fax.

Up there, it was still those days.

You found the one fax in Alaska?

It's still those days, probably.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, I know.

I've never done anything easy.

When I bought my house, I remember I was traveling with it two jobs ago.

Before even the auto industry.

And faxing it from some hotel in Saskatchewan back and forth.

Yeah, I don't like to do things easy.

Were you at another publication before AutoGuide, Mike?

I don't remember.

I was at AutoTrader Canada.

I worked at AutoTrader for many years doing other jobs.

I was taking pictures of cars on dealers' lots for advertising purposes.

And then I started managing those people.

And I started managing the managers.

And then I wandered over here in about 2010.

But I was with AutoTrader since 2005.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

And before that, I was doing rental cars and washing cars.

So like I said, cars, cars, cars, cars, cars.

But I remember when even I started, we'd do videos or you'd do videos.

Everyone would always refer to you as Auto Line Craig.

That was like, oh, it's Auto Line Craig.

Maybe in the early days.

I don't even remember that.

Yeah.

I mean, as someone who came on in 2019, I can't tell you the number of comments on

AutoGuide videos after you left, Craig, where people are like, where's Craig?

Oh, to this day.

Yeah, to this day.

And then you start doing those Toyota spots with us.

And people are like, Craig's back.

The one with the infotainment video, I think it was.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, that's so happy.

Like when I came back, too, I thought, well, no one's gonna remember me.

And like maybe three people did.

But some people are like, oh, it's good.

Mike's making videos again.

It's been a while.

Yeah.

I left.

It's not like I've just been hiding in the background for many years.

We keep them up in the attic.

We feed them fish heads.

Fish heads.

Bring them down every once in a while.

But yeah, I mean, I remember, Craig, we got to do very few videos together.

See, at auto shows, we'd be doing our own cars.

Yeah.

And then when you started doing the auto show roundups, I was gone.

You'd do those with Jody.

But we did the odd comparison.

Walk around.

Yeah, where we dragged you up to Canada with a car in tow, usually, so you could help us

do one of our shootouts.

Yeah, we did a few of those.

Like they were huge.

We'd do them at the track there.

Cayuga.

What is it?

Cayuga?

No.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Toronto Motorsports Park.

Whatever they call it.

I think Atalabogie's the other one, right?

That's just the thing that happens these days in our area, is anything is labeled as Toronto

something, even if it's not remotely close to Toronto.

This is Insarnia.

Why is it called Toronto?

Yeah, there's a music festival that happens every year that is north of Barrie.

So for listeners who aren't familiar, that's like two hours north of Toronto.

They're like, oh, it's the Toronto festival.

And you're like, how?

If it's on the other side of a neighboring city, it can't be labeled that.

I agree.

But they want that panache of Toronto, right?

Yeah.

The Detroit concert taking place in Boise, Idaho.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, we're actually still doing those comparisons.

We have a smaller scale one.

Actually, next week, only five cars.

But Kyle and I did an 11 earlier this year.

We did a small car one that was like a dozen cars, wasn't it?

Yeah, earlier this year we did a compact car.

We had eight.

But the nice thing there was it was literally the entire segment.

And we've never done that before.

Yeah, we did small SUVs and compact SUVs.

And that was 12 and 11.

But even there, we were missing a handful, which is probably a good thing,

because that was enough cars.

How do you logistically even man it?

It was hard enough for me.

We did maybe three comparison tests with two vehicles in them locally here.

And just wrangling the two vehicles was a huge pain in the ass.

How do you do it with a dozen?

How?

Well, it's a lot of advance.

Months in ahead, I'll start asking.

And then we have to make a plan of when to pick them up.

And we usually hire an extra person or two to help us shuttle.

But literally, Monday on those days is like 8 a.m. to 6 p.m.,

just driving around the city, picking up cars and dropping them at a central location.

But I grew up...

Well, Craig, we're about the same age.

I grew up reading the car drivers and the road and tracks and motor trends,

doing these segment shootouts.

And I thought, this is the coolest thing.

This is what you do.

So when I started AutoTrader, I was like, let's do this.

And everyone looked at me like I was crazy.

I was like, it won't be that hard to do.

And we did them.

And then when it came to AutoGuide columns, like, can we start doing this?

Like, yeah, I'd love to.

And I don't know.

I guess it doesn't seem as terrible to me.

That's why I seem to be the only one who likes to organize them.

But in the end, the results are great.

It's not just the logistics.

It's the work of the week.

Kyle and I are killing ourselves trying to get that week done.

But then in the end, you're like, oh, look how good this turned out.

And everyone's referencing it.

You're like, let's do another one.

And then when you're doing it, like, why are we doing this ever again?

I think the thing for me, like, I remember reading them, too.

And like, as a kid, I read the British magazines, like Car especially.

And they do it for like, you know, their regular little hatchbacks, the European ones.

And I loved it because no one, nowhere else are you getting like that direct comparison, right?

Like, we do reviews over the year.

And we drive a lot of competitors.

But having them there and actually getting in and out at the same time throughout the week

and talking with, like, it's Mike and I and usually at least one other journalist,

you get such a better view of the whole segment.

And so I'm with Mike.

We're like, it's a lot of work.

And every time at the end of it, by Friday, I'm just like, why do we do this?

It's a whole week.

But then you see the finished product and it's like, okay, well, that's why we do it.

And that's the best way to get, I would say, to get views on YouTube.

Because how many car review channels are there?

Do you really need another review of a Mazda CX-5 or a Ford Explorer or whatever, right?

Yeah.

But no, if you can compare that to a Honda CRV or HRV, whatever, or, you know,

a Hyundai Palisade as the case of the Explorer.

Like now you're adding value because you have two vehicles.

Which one's better?

Oh, the Hyundai may have more third row legroom.

The Ford is more powerful, whatever.

You can really see and demonstrate those differences so that if somebody is shopping for

a three row SUV, they have a good idea of what they're going in for and what they're looking for.

Yeah.

I have pointed friends and family to a lot of our maker comparisons in the last two or three years

because they're looking for something in that segment.

And I'm like, look, like, I know what my favorite is, but you might have different priorities.

Go watch this.

And then you can tell which one better aligns with your tastes.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I'm going to give the links to randoms.

But Craig, you make a good point.

Mike's literally on like street corners.

And he's just like, have you watched this video?

Little QR codes.

Like when you and I did video with Autoguide originally, we had videographers in production

because we were semi new or semi early to it.

We weren't the earliest, but we were one of few full time channels that did it.

And like I've said to people, like if we got 50,000 views in a video, it was a failure.

And nowadays, there's just so many.

I mean, I know you tried not too long ago.

And I tried again, like going back full time video.

And you just can't make the inroads, regardless of quality, because there's just so much noise

out there.

So like you said, you need to find something different.

And even our comparisons sometimes do good, sometimes do terrible.

But these shootouts usually do really well.

And it's not like we post it and we get 100,000 views.

It's like over weeks, over months, it just keeps getting views.

Well, that's the thing.

It's very evergreen, because somebody might be shopping for a 2025 Camry, but they'll

still be shopping for a 2025 Camry in five years on the used car market, right?

So they search for that on YouTube.

They'll pull up this big comparison.

They could see, oh, there's an Altima and an Accord and everything else and see.

Yeah, we should maybe do that segment before more of them die.

So we'll get all three first.

Yes, all three of them.

Yeah.

But I mean, Trent, you did them with us in college.

I've done them.

Sometimes you go in with a good idea of who's going to win.

Like the compact cars, we knew the Civic was probably going to win, because it's just

such a fantastic car.

But you've never gone into one and been like, this is the order.

Like there's always a car that you're like, this is terrible compared to what I thought

it was.

And there's always a car that's like, this is way better than I thought.

Because in isolation, you're trying to remember what you drove three months ago, what it was

like, and when you start.

And especially when it comes to like rear seat space and stuff, you don't realize until

you sit in them all like, oh, this is good.

This is bad.

So there's, yeah, there's a huge value in getting them all together.

It's just not easy.

No, because like, because the manufacturers generally, at least on our side of the border,

would always want to be involved and know that their car was going to be put in a comparison

test.

Oh yeah, they all know here, but they're all on board.

But I think it's because we have such a history of it.

Even if they're one of the last place cars, we're still going to talk about the pros and

the cons.

We're not just going to be like, this is the most terrible thing ever.

Don't ever buy this.

You're a complete idiot if you buy that car.

And some people do that for clicks.

It's like, no, we're trying to actually tell you, like in that compact, the Sentra came

last.

It's still a good car.

It's just, it's a great class and it's competitive.

And I think like the other nice thing that I've noticed doing these over the last few

years too, it's like we have OEMs reaching out ahead of time saying, oh, what's your

scoring like?

Because they're really trying to figure out what model or what trim works best, right?

Because they're like, well, we could give you a loaded one, but then maybe that's going

to get dinged on price.

If you're weighing price heavier than features.

Yeah, and I find that interesting because it also feeds into how buyers shop too, right?

I know Canada versus US, which is a strange thing is that Canada tends to shop higher

trims, whereas Americans tend to buy bigger vehicles.

So it's interesting how there's even those differences.

And then of course, in Canada, you have Quebec, which is its own entire thing.

Almost its own country once or twice.

Yeah, so it's really fun.

I think that's the thing at the end of the day is like as much work as the mega comparisons

are, it's so fascinating to get a better view.

Yeah.

So what's the next comparison we can expect from you guys?

Well, like I said, next week we're doing...

So the midsize SUV has kind of morphed into...

Everyone kind of started finding a niche and it's kind of gone into two.

There's sort of the premium mainstream midsizes, and then there's sort of the off roadies.

So we're doing the premium.

So the goal was to have the Murano, but we'll...

Spoiler alert.

Yeah, scheduling did not work because something happened to that car.

But then Crown Signia, the Envision, like those sort of classes.

We have about five or six that we're doing.

And then in the spring, we want to do the other counterparts is the off roadie ones.

So like Wilderness Outback, Passport, Trailsport, probably a Bronco, 4Runner, sort of the two row

bigger than compact that want to go off road or the two row bigger than compact that want

to be premium.

There's this sort of just mainstream two row kind of died because I think people either

go all the way to three row or they get smaller.

So you don't get like the regular edges or anything.

Yeah, the edges.

Yeah.

So that's when the Murano like in the spring, and it's obviously totally different and the

weather is different.

And just patch it in is a joke.

Yeah, yeah.

It's the exact same time.

And then maybe have a really bad cut out of the other cars.

Exactly.

Like Photoshopped in the lineup.

We have gathered six cars here to compare.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah.

The bad voiceovers too.

Maybe Kyle, Craig just taps in to say something.

Or I'll voiceover you saying six.

You're introducing five cars, but then you hear my voice say six.

Yeah, we have the best five two row crossovers.

Yeah, there you go.

But Craig, we'll call you up for the real punishment that's going to be the one that

I really want to do in the summer.

And that's what was it, Kyle?

Two and a half years ago, we did the, I know we call them compacts, but they've grown,

but the CRVs, the RAV4s, like that size, we did 11 of them.

And we've been waiting because we need about one or two more to make it to market.

But in the summer, we want to do the hybrids of that category because everybody pretty

much is a hybrid now.

We're waiting for the Rogue, the Forester's here finally.

There's one more that we're waiting on.

The new CX-5 doesn't get a hybrid until the second year.

So next year, we might have the new CX-5, but it won't be hybrid yet.

So we'll just have to get the old, we'll have to get the current Toyota.

CX-50.

CX-50 hybrid.

Right, yes.

So because that's like CX-50, RAV4, CRV, Forester, Rogue, Outlander, like they're all

got a hybrid now.

Yeah, oh, and the Cherokee.

The new Cherokee too.

And then whatever OGM doesn't have a hybrid.

No, but they have an Equinox that's about the same price that just runs on electricity.

Volkswagen doesn't have a hybrid yet, but it's supposed to come eventually.

Do they have a diesel though?

Oh, no.

Too soon, Craig.

It's only been 10 years.

Has it really?

I don't know.

It's been a long time.

Yeah, like Craig and I work in Autoguide.

We were like, it was blowing up when that thing happened.

I got a question for you, Craig.

This is a Wayback Playback.

Do you remember, and I'll always remember this, the article that we posted that absolutely

blew up and was our number one article, probably still of all time to this day.

And we like beat everybody in the world for some reason with it.

Do you remember this article?

Was it the...

Did Luke write it?

And was it that...

Who's the fastest in the field?

Paul Walker.

You're right.

Is that what it was?

Because I remember like...

I remember I was with Subaru at the Rally of the Tall Pines, which is our like...

It's the Canada rally, but it's like the US one where we go to different places.

And it was like 1130 at night or midnight.

And I was in a trailer trying to keep warm because it was minus 30 Celsius,

which is about the same Fahrenheit.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was just on Twitter.

And like this is...

Twitter was big, but it wasn't as big then.

So not everyone was on it.

And then I saw a post about this.

I was like, what?

And because it happened just a couple hours ago and I clicked on it.

And so I remember sending it to you guys.

Like, guys, I think Paul Walker died.

And Luke, I don't know if he was still up at that hour or he was in the West Coast

for some reason, but he just put it out.

And then like, because we were the first story, everybody linked our story.

Like, Kyle, I'm not joking.

We had like a million and a half page views in like a day.

It blew up.

So you just need...

Poor choice of words.

I mean...

Well, just need accuracy to crash cars.

But about all stories, like who would think, well, we're a legit auto review site.

So a celebrity that crashes a car and dies, that's going to be our number one story.

Well, I mean, like it's the cross...

I hate to say cross appeal, but yeah, like that's the thing.

It's like everyone can link to it, right?

Not just car news places.

The other one I remember that was really big that Colin wanted to bottle the lightning with.

I think it was Sammy wrote a story like, and it was entitled something like,

what is a CVT transmission or how does a CVT transmission work?

Which is terrible.

It gets so many views.

Terribly redundant title.

It's like saying ATM machine, but I get it.

It's SEO.

And I've seen a bunch of other sites with very similar, you know, CVT transmission headlines.

But I remember that one doing exceptionally well too.

Yeah, the unfortunate reality of the dumbing down of the internet.

Yeah.

These sorts of things do well.

Well, sorry, I just interrupt, but the one that won't die is as well as Sammy's review

or article on top 10 weird car noises, or why is my car making that noise?

It just continues.

I just pulled up the Paul Walker.

So we only have 1.3 thousand views in the last two years.

So it's slowed down, but it has 400,000 people are calling it.

What, he just died in 2012?

Oh, no.

Or whatever year it was.

For a site that gets, if we're lucky, three comments on an article, this has 474.

So it just shows what it did back in the day.

But anyway, sorry, Kyle.

There's your metric, Mike.

You got to match that now.

Come on.

I have a slightly different question for Craig, because we've gone off track a little bit.

I want to bring it back to, Craig, you live in Motor City.

Obviously, there's been a lot of change in the last, I don't know, every year,

it seems like people are talking about how there's six years.

So what is the vibe now in the city?

Like, I'm very curious, and I want to hear someone's opinion from, you know,

that lives there, right?

Of like, how it feels, if cars still feel like they're always going to be central

to the identity of Detroit.

That's a good, I think just culturally, yes, because Motown, Detroit,

people just automatically associate cars and the city.

But I don't know, like, the whole, Detroit isn't the manufacturing epicenter,

the mecca that it once was decades ago, right?

Like, sure, there are still factories in the city, and really,

the surrounding areas even more so than Detroit proper.

But also, manufacturers build cars in Georgia and Alabama.

They have manufacturing plants in Indiana and all across the rest of the country.

Canada too, there's several very large factories in Ontario that make cars.

And I'm sure supplier companies as well that deliver the parts those factories need.

So like, it's not, Detroit has been eclipsed, I think,

by other regions in the country and world.

So I think it's Motown for historical reasons, but, and obviously,

vehicle manufacturing is still hugely important here because we have,

we still have factories, and we still have the whole constellation of supplier companies

from Bosch and Continental and whatever that provide other components.

But I think it's definitely declined in recent decades, yeah.

But it will remain kind of a key feature, as long as people are rebuilding their 51 Fords.

Well, yeah, and that's not much help for the new car sales.

But yeah, because like, go ahead.

I was gonna say, here's my incredible hot take to what you just said, Craig, is,

yeah, there's all these plants in Canada that, hand in hand with the US,

but there's some sort of tariff issue going on or something.

Something going on.

And a lot of our plants are just sitting idle, waiting to see what they're going to build.

Like I live two minutes from the Ford plant in Oakville,

and it was going to make an EV and that was canceled.

F-250 production, and I think that's been canceled.

They're doubling the size of it still, but I don't know if they've

announced what they're going to put there.

So my incredible hot take is, if these plants never do end up being part of

any of the American plans down the road,

there's a nice modern plant just sitting to be moved into by a Chinese manufacturer

that wants to foothold in North America.

And they'll get into Canada much easier than the US.

And then they have North American manufacturing,

and Ontario could thrive through it, and that could really hurt other places.

So yeah.

Well, China has such a glut of cars.

Don't they have like 130 car brands?

Maybe it's more than that even.

And they're in a pricing war, and they can't give them away now?

That's what I've heard.

Yeah.

But the way it's going international, they're the one that I think is going to

be like a Volkswagen, Toyota competitor one day,

if not already starting to.

Like they make quality products, and they're just open to plant in Europe.

And as soon as they open one in Mexico or Canada,

then they can get into the Americas.

And yeah, they're coming.

They're coming.

They're not going to go anywhere.

Well, and like at the end of the day,

like I know one of the major criticisms about Chinese cars is,

oh, they're so heavily subsidized by the government.

And I mean, fair.

But also, do buyers care?

Like if it's a good deal, if the sticker price is low,

does someone really care whether it's subsidized by the government or not?

Probably not, right?

Like we have a costly cost issue with modern cars anyway.

And so I feel like most people would just be like,

hey, it's affordable.

I'll take it.

I mean, everybody's iPhone is already made in China.

So the notion that Chinese companies can't build quality devices is insane.

It's completely wrong.

It's just how much does the company that wants to do manufacturing in China

or with Chinese firms want to pay?

Because you can have wish.com garbage or you can have an iPhone.

They're happy to build whatever you want, right?

So the stigma of Chinese stuff being cheap garbage is not always true.

There's still a big thing about tires, right?

Like, oh, if it's Chinese brand tire, it's terrible.

It's like you don't realize how many big American brand name

top line tires are actually made in China.

I mean, they're made in other places too.

But it's, yeah.

I don't mean even cars now.

But this is like Japan in the 70s.

Oh, Japanese can't make good quality cars.

And Korea in the 90s.

It's, you know, it's say, wait, pretend it's not going to happen.

It's going to happen.

Yeah.

But every time the timeline gets shorter.

Yes.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Because it's more of a global world.

And like I said, if you can come to Canada now and there's a factory made

and you have all the technology from around the world,

you could probably build a quality car from day one.

Whereas back in the 70s, it was a little harder to just have all those resources.

On the fly.

So can I come to Canada and get health care, please?

We'll sponsor you, Craig.

Would you sponsor an adult?

This is my son.

Yes, yes.

He's older than I am, but a number of years I've adopted him into the family.

Yeah.

Don't do the math.

All right.

It's fine.

I had it when I was negative.

Well, it's much more of your time.

But where can people find you these days?

Besides the Toyota Infotainment videos?

Oh, this is to go to the AutoGuide YouTube channel.

Yeah, there's a great Toyota Infotainment feature.

Actually, I started my own YouTube channel with Ben Sanders, if you remember old Ben.

I remember Ben fondly.

Yeah.

So we've worked together at a few places over the years.

AutoGuide, of course.

He did some work with us when I went on to CNET.

I worked with Ben at EV Pulse.

I worked with Ben at AutoLine before AutoGuide.

But anyway, we started our own channel.

It's called Auto Esoterica.

And we cover underserved stuff.

So we try to do classic car features because, again, nobody needs another Accord review,

necessarily, unless you're going to do something a little bit different or do a comparison test.

So we're not falling into that category necessarily just yet.

So we're focusing more on classic car stuff.

We also have a couple shows.

One we do with a designer named Jason White.

He was a former car designer and is now a professor at the College for Creative Studies

in Detroit.

So we do deep dives and design breakdowns of cars, which is interesting.

And then we've got an analyst friend named Jim Hall, if you guys have heard of him.

Oh, just Jim Hall.

Jim Hall.

Yeah, just Jim Hall.

We do a show called Jim Hall Knows It All because he's just an absolute genius when it comes to

cars and many other things.

And we talk about other topics, not necessarily design with him.

But he's an analyst.

He worked at GM a number of times.

Very interesting guy.

Super smart.

So those are some of the shows we do over at Auto Esoterica.

Like and subscribe.

Check it out.

Yeah, it's a good time.

I know you've been friends with Jim Hall forever, but yeah, he's a fantastic guy.

He helped him design some car.

I can't remember.

Well, that's his brother.

He's uncle to the Mazda Miata because his twin brother, Bob Hall, really helped.

And Bob hates it when you call him the father of the Miata.

He's not necessarily the father.

He's very magnanimous about it.

He was part of a team, he always explains.

He kind of conceptualized a British roadster that's reliable and fun.

And then he was part of the team that helped develop and bring the Miata to market.

It's shorthand to call him the father of the Miata, even though he doesn't necessarily like it.

But by extension, Jim is therefore the uncle, being Bob's twin.

Because Bob's on, I think, Donut a lot right now.

But if somehow you could get Jim and Bob together just going on about cars,

that'd be a fantastic show.

Oh yeah.

Yes.

The Hall hour.

It's right there.

Boom.

Yeah, well, that's great.

I always thought Kreutzer started his own site.

I know you did, but I'm happy you did.

Because yeah, you have an interesting take in underserved markets.

May I suggest an entire episode on the Oldsmobile Alero down the road?

Well, I'll call you, Mike, because you had one of those, didn't you?

I'm going to go change the sign that I have just off screen,

where the number of days that Mike's gone without mentioning the Alero.

So it's back to zero.

You can reset all your signs, Kyle.

Super SVX.

There we go.

Yeah, there we go.

All right, Craig.

Well, thank you for being on.

We will definitely have you on again.

We didn't talk to a million topics we could.

Yes, there's many topics.

We didn't even get into modern cars hardly.

So we'll definitely have you on.

There will always be modern cars.

Yeah, there will.

Well, thanks for joining.

A pleasure.

Thank you, guys.

Thanks, Craig.

All right, welcome back.

We have Column 1 on Talk F1.

And although another week will have passed, we need to talk about what happened last week,

because to us, that's still this week, which is confusing.

But yeah, McLaren.

You want to talk about the double disqualification?

It's not a good look.

Yeah, we'll get into that more in a bit.

Although that's big news, there's some other crazy news that just came out.

And it seems to make sense, but I don't think I was expecting this.

Well, Adrian, no, I agree.

I wasn't expecting it either.

It was actually for the whole week sort of leading up to this, there had been these rumors

about other, like Andy Cal, who's the current team principal, that basically he'd be out,

that there'd be somebody else in.

And there was a discussion.

Like I saw rumors about Andrea Seidel from McLaren.

I saw that Christian Horner was coming back.

And then boom, they drop this, which I think is very interesting, because having a true

engineering guy running the broader picture, usually they kind of keep them in their little

package, right?

And we'll see how he can do in a more, I think in a role that is actually going to tax him

and not in his sort of area of expertise necessarily.

Although I'm sure he sat on one of those walls for so long, I'm sure he can do it.

So yeah, it's like you said, it's an engineer who designs the cars, usually not the one

also running the team.

And he's arguably the most well-known because of all the success he had.

And it was like a sports free agency situation where he was trying to figure out where he

was going and whatnot.

So he's known and he's respected, but can he take the reins?

Maybe he just really wanted to be on drive to survive.

I don't know.

Maybe, maybe.

A related note, and I can't remember if we talked about this last week or not, that they

are going to be making a, like a biopic about his life.

Did you hear about this?

So it's interesting how this all just comes together.

Yes.

So Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are apparently working together and they're going to do a

sort of a, it's not quite sure if it's a true documentary or it's a documentary slash film

about the life of Adrian Newey, which should be very interesting, I think.

So I actually have decent hopes for that.

It could be quite good.

You know what, Matt Damon, some makeup to look like he's 30 years older, 20 years older.

I can see him having this look.

So maybe.

But I also wonder, is it going to be the true like Christian Horner, back in the day, Zach

Brown, full reins over this?

Or is he going to only control an aspect of the team and other people doing other aspects

and it's more split out?

Like I have a feeling it's going to be, you design the car, you do the strategy, but other

people will be doing like other stuff with the team, like maybe the PR or the driver

management.

Yeah, maybe.

I'm a little, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if a few years down the road, we had Fernando

Alonso doing this or something.

I actually, the British rumor mill just never stopped.

So despite the fact that this was announced, I still saw rumors coming out that Christian

Horner could be tied to the team still and come in in like a CEO role, kind of like a

Zach Brown to McLaren.

And I was like, oh my goodness.

I'm like, I don't know about that.

I, the most realistic Christian Horner rumors, I think would be something where I know he

wants to like buy a stake in a team and have some ownership position, not a day to day

activity thing.

Who knows, right?

And I, but I think the only place that's going to happen is in probably one of the lower

run teams, you know, try and jump in and, you know, finagle things at an Alpine or a

Haas or something.

But I still also don't see that happening.

So yeah, of all teams that I could see that bring him back would be Lawrence Stroll.

I'd be like, I don't care about what happened before.

Like I just need him on the team.

But I'm curious with Adrian having more control and power and say how much of a leash

Lance may get in the next couple of years, because you got now someone who's a little

more probably respected and outspoken that's gonna be in a position of, yeah.

I still think one day Lawrence will have to fire his son, but we'll see when we get to

that point.

Yeah, man, I got to think we've got one year more of Lance Stroll and then he'll be off.

That's my prediction.

He'll stick around for the first year, because if it's the first year and they're like

the greatest team ever, then he'll be around, right?

But if not, we'll see.

Yeah.

Or if it's the first year and like Lance was fighting for the championship and he's like

Sonoda in the back of his own car.

Yeah, yeah.

Although that usually doesn't happen.

Him and Lance have been on top of each other all year.

Seems to be they're driving at what the car is at.

So I agree.

Yeah, it's probably the max potential.

Oh, yeah, the order out, but we'll talk about this first.

That's all right.

Yeah.

Lewis Hamilton is not happy.

I mean that the man, it must suck to be a Ferrari right now.

Yeah, right.

Like the discussions were after he had some interviews after the last race and he basically

said that he was not looking forward to next year.

The way he kind of said it was he wasn't looking forward, whatever.

They said, oh, to the next race.

And he said like, no, no, the next year.

He's really down.

And then this coming up to this week in Qatar, he kind of like backpedaled a little bit and

just said how it's frustrating and hard and blah, blah, blah.

But crap, that doesn't sound good for Ferrari.

So.

Yeah, like because we've said a million times that everyone knows next year is a whole new

world.

So if he's saying this already, he may know some insider stuff.

Figuring out the new regulations as good as they had hoped, or he just has so little faith

that they even can.

Yeah.

I feel like we should have like an Arrested Development type thing with his interviews

last year about how excited he was to come to the team.

He always dreamed of it.

And then the narrator saying he did not.

Oh, man.

It's, I don't know.

We really shouldn't have expected anything different.

I know everyone has high hopes and they love to, you know, great story and blah, blah, blah.

But really, like this is exactly really what if you were honest, you would expect to happen.

You know?

Yeah.

And I've heard the story and I don't disagree where people are saying Ferrari's got such a.

Like it's the team to be on, like in every sport, there's the team to be on.

But if not always are those teams as dominant as the lower has, like, if you look at Ferrari,

like the Schumacher's dominant back in a lot of days, they were great, too.

But they've had a lot of periods of time where they were, you know, scratching and clawing

just to be above mid pack, basically.

So it's not like they're always on top, like people think they are.

Yeah.

And it's weird, right?

Because they do have there's the great pressure to win.

But at the same time, it's kind of like we live in Toronto.

We have our Toronto Maple Leafs is like if the Leafs lost for years and years,

they sell out every game no matter what.

And it was like, it doesn't matter.

They could be the best team, the worst team sell every game.

It's irrelevant.

Right.

And I feel it's the same thing.

People will be fanatical about Ferrari, no matter how good or bad they are.

Like, it's irrelevant.

So we'll see.

Yeah, we'll see what happens next year.

Hamilton even makes it through the year.

So back to what we talked about at the start.

So the double DQ for McLaren.

I mean, that just completely changes the driver's championship.

By the time people hear this, though, things could have changed again.

Max could be right up there, almost at Lando.

Lando could have pulled way ahead again.

Like, who knows what's happening?

But if Max wins this year, it's already starting.

I don't even want to think of the conspiracy theorists that are going to

have a field day with this.

And I mean, in fairness, I kind of like, it's not like there's this big conspiracy.

But I get it.

After what happened with Hamilton years ago, and then both cars that are ahead of him get

DQ'd for a fraction of a human hair violation.

Which is like, I know it's a violation, but it's crazy it's that small.

It was like, what, like 0.1 millimeter or something?

Yeah, it was very slow.

Something you can't even measure with your eye.

And it's just like, yeah.

My wife is a Hamilton fan.

And she's just like, she's not even kidding.

She's like, Max Verstappen has something on the FIA.

She's just like, what is going on here?

How is this happening?

A lot of people are saying, oh, Josh is paying people off.

And I'm like, I don't think he has that much money.

So if you could easily pay the FIA off like that, then Aston Martin would be winning championships.

Because Lawrence has all the money he could easily spend in the world on this sort of stuff.

So he would.

He would.

The interesting, and what we'll see with this, and we'll know probably by the time this is over.

But there was this discussion about, is this because they were riding the cars too low,

right?

Which obviously, I guess, yes.

But did they know that?

And is that why?

Because at the end of the race, Norris basically backed off a lot.

So he was going much slower.

And there was talk about, is it fuel or whatever?

But it was probably this.

And he just didn't want to run it any more than he had to.

So I think that there's, is it the case that they're going to have to run a slightly more

conservative setup here?

And then as a result, be slower or not?

Because there was this whole discussion after the Brazil race.

I don't think we actually covered on the podcast.

But there was this discussion that numerous teams were using tricks to basically, with

the expansion of the floor under heat, and how it would affect the wear, and so on and so forth.

And so the FIA issued some internal directive was the thing, and that a bunch of teams changed.

And then I heard rumors saying that, oh, yes, that even the McLarens were apparently marginal

to hitting the rules or crossing over the rules in Brazil.

But I'm like, who's saying that?

It seems kind of made up.

But yeah, I think we'll see very soon if the McLarens have to be slower because they were

doing something.

My understanding from those Brazil rumors was that basically, effectively, every team

was doing it.

They all had figured out some trick to run the cars lower.

So this could just be, again, a total one-off.

So yeah, it certainly threw everything up in the air.

I was sitting on my couch watching the race.

My wife, she watches, but she just can't avoid social media.

And she was there, and she had already spoiled the race for herself.

And then so as soon as it's over, I'm like, oh, that wasn't a bad result for Max.

And my wife's just like, the McLarens were about this well.

And I was like, what?

What's going on?

You're right.

They may have known that they're getting close.

That's why I backed them off.

But hearing what the team said, and as it goes to Qatar, which, again, will have already

happened by the time people hear this.

But I don't think they'll have to change much.

It seems like the crappiness of the roads in Vegas caught them out.

I mean, they should know by now.

They've been there enough.

But they basically said it was bumpier than they were expecting.

So they probably were pushing their luck on either suspension softness or ride height

more than the other teams were.

And they got caught out.

And they probably were monitoring everything.

So some engineer probably towards the end said, oh, geez, we may be wearing off our

skid plates.

We need to back off.

But too late by them.

But it's just crazy how such a fraction of nothing could completely change the championship.

And again, it's a rule.

And you can't break it.

I'm not saying they should not have this happen.

But it's crazy.

It's kind of like, what are the odds, right?

If they didn't do that, I don't think anything would have changed in the race results.

It's not like he beat Max by a tenth of a second.

But yet, it could change the entire season.

Yeah, it would have been fractionally.

Yes.

And it could have impacted more.

So, man, I go back to my—I just referenced my wife.

I referenced my father, who always says the job of the FIA and Formula One is to make

sure it's not to run a fair sporting arrangement.

It is to create a spectacle that people will watch.

So are they doing a great job at creating a spectacle people watch?

Absolutely, right?

They're going to drag it down to the last minute.

And if you see a tie on points for the last race, I will not be surprised.

Yeah, no one wanted—when McLaren wrapped up the manufacturers that early, they're

probably like, OK, we're going to change this.

I feel bad.

Oscar is really going to test his resolve for such a young kid.

Had the lead, and now he might not even get second.

Probably won't.

Just spiraling down.

His team is probably saying to him, so if you're beside Max in a corner this race,

you know, get a little aggressive.

We won't really mind if you knock him off the track so we can make sure Norris wins.

Torpedo away.

But make sure it's not intentional.

You know, do a maximum to Max.

Exactly.

Yeah, just really aggressive.

That's all.

Oh, crap.

Well, it should be—it's going to be a great end of the season.

I'm stoked.

I'm excited for a sprint weekend because there's extra F1.

More points.

Yeah, more extra points, too.

If the car doesn't get disqualified, although Max won that race.

He just got out.

Lando had a terrible start.

I still think Lando was getting poles, and he has the pace.

So I think he can, if he doesn't break down or get disqualified, eke it out.

But anything can happen, right?

A backhander can take you out.

You can have an engine failure.

You can blow a tire.

There's so many things.

And we've got, what, two races and one sprint left?

Is that right?

Yeah, that's it.

That's a lot of points still.

Yeah, and not many days.

Because I think the next race is even the very next weekend.

So it's like a super short period of time between now and the end of the season.

So I'm down to the wire.

It's December on Monday.

I know, I know.

You need to finish it up.

All right.

Well, thanks for coming on.

This went a little long, but there was lots to talk about.

And I'm sure next week and the week after, there'll be even more to talk about.

There will indeed.

Yeah, we may be crowning a champion next week.

We may be getting ready for the crazy three-way battle to finish the season.

Who knows?

It's going down to the wire, Mike.

Going down to the wire.

All right.

We'll see you later.

All right.

Take care.

All right.

So that wraps things up on another long episode of the Auto Guys.

I show my Tiva EV motors, so we won't take much of your time.

But just quickly, this week, Kyle, you and I have been comparing some

off-road mid-sizers that are very different.

I have the Honda Passport Trailsport, and you have the Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro,

which is much more money, but also pretty hardcore.

And it's been really interesting driving both of them throughout the week.

Yeah, it's much more of everything, including money.

It looks really cool.

But we will save our thoughts on that for a future date.

Yes.

And then I had some extra stuff going on this week.

I had another off-roader.

I had the Jeep Wrangler, except it was the low-trim Sport S.

And it's the two-door, and it's the manual.

So that was interesting because I don't think we've covered a two-door or a manual in a long time.

And I happened to get it beside a 26, which I will have more info on next week as well.

And then, to wrap things up real quick, I also had the IS500.

I traded in the 4Runner for the weekend for the final edition of the IS500

because the V8 sedan is disappearing after 26.

Yeah, last of the NA V8 sedans.

And, well, for now, until the Charger gets one back.

Because we know what's going to happen.

But, yeah, and then next week, we won't get into too much.

But we have one of our bigger comparisons, five vehicles.

We'll talk more about it next week.

We'll leave you with that.

So until then, this has been The Auto Guide Show, and we'll see you next week.

So long, everybody.

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