Vertu's £3.4m JLR insurance payout, Cazoo ditches Motors, and Hendy's huge losses – with Jason Cranswick & Ian Plummer, episode 256
Car Dealer Podcast
Vertu's £3.4m JLR insurance payout, Cazoo ditches Motors, and Hendy's huge losses – with Jason Cranswick & Ian Plummer, episode 256 Car Dealer Podcast · May 1, 2026
Even electric cars have a small 12-volt battery for things like lights and warning signals. If it gets drained, the car may not be able to start or charge.
Hazards are the flashing warning lights you turn on when you’re stopped on the road. If you leave them on for hours, they can drain the car’s small battery.
A recovery truck is the tow vehicle that comes to help when a car can’t drive anymore. They use it to get the car to a place where it can be dealt with.
For an electric car, “battery life” is basically how much charge capacity the battery still has left. If it’s high, the car can usually drive farther on a charge.
Concept
priced at six and a half grand
They’re talking about how much the car was listed for and why that price helped it sell. In used-car listings, being priced competitively can make a big difference.
This is about checking how healthy an electric car’s battery is. It helps you understand whether the battery is still in good shape or if it’s starting to wear out.
A warranty is a promise to cover certain repairs if something breaks. Here, they’re talking about warranty coverage related to EV batteries or EV components.
It means one company handles several steps of the process instead of relying on other companies. For car sales, that could mean they manage more of the buying, selling, and delivery themselves.
Omnichannel sales means you can shop and buy using more than one method—like online or in a showroom—and it should feel like one continuous experience. The goal is that you don’t have to start over when you switch channels.
“Direct to consumer” means the car brand sells to you directly, instead of going through independent dealerships. The idea is to make the buying process more controlled and often more consistent.
In an “agency” approach, the dealer may not own the car stock. Instead, they help sell the car for the manufacturer, often earning a fee or commission.
“Frictionless transactions” means buying should feel easy and fast, with fewer hassles. For cars, that often means less back-and-forth and a simpler online process.
“Online activity” means the things you do on the internet before buying a car, like searching listings or checking information. The point is that most car buyers look online first, even if they buy in person.
Social proof means people trust something more when they see other people doing it or saying it worked out. In car shopping, it’s like seeing proof that other customers have bought that car or used that dealer.
“Route to transaction” just means the steps that get someone from looking at a car to actually buying it. The idea is to make that path smoother and more predictable.
This is when you buy a used car mostly through a website, with photos and videos instead of meeting the seller first. Some people like it because it’s convenient, but others worry they won’t be able to fully check the car or trust the process.
“End-to-end online” means you can do the whole car-buying process online, not just look at cars online. You still need to make sure the car details are clear and that the paperwork and delivery are handled correctly.
Waymo is a company that works on self-driving cars. The speaker is using it to make the point that, right now, most car buying and driving is still done by people.
“OEM world” refers to the original equipment manufacturer side of the auto industry—where companies design, engineer, and plan vehicles. The speaker contrasts it with the dealer world, where the focus shifts to delivering those plans to customers through sales and operations.
“Dealer world” means the dealership side of the business—selling cars to customers. The speaker is saying it’s one thing to plan a car, and another to actually sell and deliver it effectively.
M&A means mergers and acquisitions—big business deals where companies join together or one buys another. The speaker is saying they worked on corporate deal activity.
Concept
showroom environment
A “showroom environment” is the physical place at a dealership where cars are on display. The discussion is about how that in-person setting feels different from selling online.
This is talking about car companies from China that are selling more cars in other countries. When they sell more, it can change pricing and profits for other brands and dealers.
Margin is the profit a business keeps after costs. “Compression of margin” means that profit is getting squeezed—so dealers have less room to make money even if they’re selling cars.
Term
AI
AI is computer software that can learn patterns and help make decisions or automate tasks. They’re suggesting it could help dealers run things more efficiently when expenses go up.
A “tech stack” just means all the computer systems and software a business uses day to day. Here, they’re talking about dealers possibly switching or upgrading those tools to work better and cost less.
“Performance dispersion” means there’s a big gap between the best performers and the worst performers. Here, they’re saying some dealers are doing great, but others are struggling.
Term
Spursion charts
“Spursion charts” appears to refer to a performance-tracking chart used in the OEM (original equipment manufacturer) world to compare results across the network. The hosts treat it as a familiar tool from their past, implying it’s used to visualize rankings and identify underperforming areas.
In car retail, “franchising” usually means the brand works with independent dealers who sell the brand’s cars and follow the brand’s rules. It affects how the dealer network is organized and managed.
BYD is a car company from China. They make a lot of electric cars, and the point here is that some buyers are switching to BYD based on what the car offers, not just the old “luxury brand” names.
Porsche is a well-known German luxury sports-car brand. In this conversation, it’s used to show that some people move away from traditional premium brands.
“Chinese cars” refers to vehicles made by automakers based in China, which have been expanding globally with a focus on electrification and technology. The hosts are setting up a discussion about how these brands are gaining attention and customers.
They’re saying China sells a huge chunk of all new cars worldwide. Because of that, what happens in China can strongly affect what other countries see next.
“New energy vehicles” is a catch-all term for cleaner cars that don’t rely on petrol in the same way. In practice, it usually means electric cars and plug-in hybrid cars.
BEV means a battery-electric car. It doesn’t use petrol—its power comes from a battery you charge at home or at a charging station.
Term
China speed
“China speed” means things in China’s car market move really fast—new models and trends show up and catch on quickly. The hosts are saying you need to understand that pace so you can plan ahead.
A “VIP press day” is the special early day of a car show for important guests and journalists. It’s when the biggest announcements and interviews usually happen.
Generative search is when a search engine gives you a written answer, not just a list of websites. For car shopping, that means the info dealers put online can affect what the search engine says back to people.
Geely is a car company from China. The hosts are saying some dealers travel there to work with companies like Geely to bring new car brands into their business.
Brand
Shang-An
Changan is a Chinese car brand. The hosts are pointing out that dealers are increasingly looking to China to partner with brands like this.
Dealers sometimes expand by starting to sell a new car brand. The hosts are saying China partnerships make it easier for dealers to add (or swap) which brands they offer.
“Involution” is basically when competition gets so intense that everyone tries harder, but it doesn’t make the business more profitable. Prices get pushed down and companies end up earning less.
“Margin compression” means car companies are making less profit per car than they used to. Even if they sell a lot, the profit on each sale gets smaller because prices are pressured.
EV subsidies are government help that makes electric cars cheaper or easier to sell. If those subsidies stop, companies may have to sell more aggressively in other countries because the market can cool down.
Electrification is the move toward cars that use electricity instead of (or alongside) gasoline. It usually means battery-electric cars or plug-in hybrids, plus the charging and battery tech that goes with them.
An EREV is mostly an electric car, but it has a gasoline engine that kicks in to make electricity when the battery gets low. That helps you go farther without charging.
This is a semi-automated driving mode. The car can do more of the driving than basic cruise control, but you still have to watch the road and be ready to take over right away.
Level 3 means the car can handle the driving in specific situations without you constantly watching. But if the car asks for control back, you have to be ready to take over.
“Smartification” here means cars becoming more like computers—using software and sensors to do more, and making the drive more automated and connected. It’s the next big trend after electric powertrains.
ADAS are safety and convenience systems that help the driver. They can automatically adjust speed, help keep the car in the lane, and warn or brake to avoid crashes.
It means the car’s behavior is controlled more by software than by hardwired electronics. The upside is that the car can sometimes be improved or updated after you buy it.
Consolidation is when companies combine or get bought out. In car markets, it often happens when it’s too expensive for smaller brands to keep operating on their own.
Spare capacity means there’s factory space that isn’t being fully used. Instead of building a new factory, a company can make cars using that existing unused production.
Renault is a well-known car brand from Europe. The hosts are saying Renault is working together with other companies in some places, which can make it cheaper and easier to sell and build cars.
Tariffs are extra taxes on imported products. If cars are shipped into the U.S. from abroad, tariffs can make them more expensive, so companies may change where they manufacture.
Volkswagen Group is a big car company that owns several different car brands. The hosts mention it to explain Jason’s background in a large, global organization.
Audi is a premium car brand. The hosts are explaining where Audi manufactures cars for the U.S. market, and why it may need to shift production because of trade rules.
They’re talking about Chinese car brands competing hard in the market. That competition can take sales away from other companies and make it harder for traditional brands to keep their share.
Market share is how much of the total car-buying a brand gets. If someone is “nibbling away” at market share, they’re slowly taking customers from other brands.
Concept
incrementality
Incrementality means “extra sales caused by the new push,” not just sales that would have happened anyway. They’re saying Chinese brands are growing some sales while also taking customers from others.
Gigacasting is a way to make big metal parts in one shot instead of many smaller pieces. That can reduce cost and help factories build cars faster.
Term
sell-to-body batteries
This sounds like a battery design that’s made to fit the car’s structure more directly. The goal is to make the battery easier and cheaper to build and install.
Fast model rotation means the company changes or refreshes its car models more quickly than usual. That can help them react to what buyers want sooner.
Digitizing the route to market means using online and digital systems to sell cars and get them to customers more efficiently. It can make the whole selling process faster and cheaper.
The used car market is where people buy and sell cars that have already been owned. If lots of new cars flood in later, it can change used prices and what dealers can profitably sell.
They’re talking about rental companies as a source of used cars. If lots of the same model come back from rentals at once, used prices can drop because there’s more supply.
Term
PHAV
PHAV here refers to a plug-in hybrid type of car—one that can run on electricity but also has a gasoline engine. The point is that interest in these electrified cars is growing.
“Buying signals” are clues from data that suggest whether a shopper is likely to actually buy a car. Dealers can use that to focus on the most promising leads.
Hendy is a car dealership group on the south coast. The hosts are talking about its published financial results, which show it lost a lot of money in 2024.
“Loss before tax” means the company was losing money, calculated before considering income tax. It’s one of the standard numbers companies report when explaining how they did financially.
A loan can have “conditions” the borrower must follow. If the company breaks those conditions, the bank may be allowed to ask for the money back right away.
Refinancing is when a company gets a new loan to replace an older one. A “facility” is basically the amount of money the company can borrow under that new agreement.
“Going concern” is an accounting way of asking: will the business likely still be operating soon? If auditors say there’s uncertainty, it means there’s a meaningful risk the company could struggle to keep going.
BDO is a company that audits other businesses’ financial statements. Here, they’re saying the numbers raise serious concerns about whether the business can keep operating.
Maserati is a car brand, and the segment says Hendy exited its relationships with Maserati. In dealer terms, this usually means ending a franchise or distribution arrangement for selling and servicing that brand.
LIVE
The Cardiola podcast is sponsored by AutoTrader.
John, have I mentioned that we sell more cars from adverts on AutoTrader than anywhere else?
Yes, I think I read that somewhere.
Well, with over 84 million consumer visits per month, they connect retailers like us
with more potential buyers than any other platform.
But it's not just about the numbers, is it?
Is that what you say to your accountant?
Because the support and the value we get from AutoTrader is, well, invaluable.
We now get AI-powered insight on every online inquiry about the level of buying intent from
each customer, incredible amounts of data about the cars that we'll sell in our local area,
and around-the-clock service support from our account manager.
It sounds like AutoTrader is basically doing all the work for you, James.
No, John, I still do some things, like take out the bins.
Anyway, to find out more about how AutoTrader can help you, visit autotrader.co.uk
slash partners slash retailer.
Welcome back to the Cardiola podcast, where we pick our favorite stories of the week
and ask an industry guest to choose which were the best.
I'm John Ray.
And joining me this week, well, I'm not actually speaking to him, frankly,
because he's been cheating on me.
He's been on two other podcasts this week, but it's James Bagger.
James.
Sorry, sorry, John.
I'm sorry.
I knew that would be a bit of a form between our relationship.
I'm very, very sorry about that.
But yes, no, I went to London and did a couple in person.
It was quite nice doing it face-to-face rather than virtually.
So, yeah, that was good fun.
Two industry podcasts that I think other people will have heard of,
and will unfortunately be hearing my voice on in the not too distant future.
So apologies in advance for that.
How are you doing anyway, John?
See, you've got a fresh new haircut.
I mean, what a week for you.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, I asked for the David Lynch and, you know, they delivered.
So it's all good.
Very nice.
Perfect.
Cars in the time that you've not been...
Can I just tell you about one interesting issue that we had this week on the car sales front?
So you might have remembered that I've been talking about my foray into electric vehicles, John.
My foray, do you mean you bought four of them?
Exactly.
Exactly what I missed.
I'm putting this in plain English.
Yes, I bought a few of those.
One of which was a, say at me, electric car.
Incredibly popular.
I could have sold it 15 times over.
The phone did not stop ringing.
So it was sold to a gentleman in Birmingham who wanted it delivered.
So our delivery driver, who, I mean, he's a retired chap, does it in his spare time,
hasn't driven very many electric vehicles, agreed to do it.
We had a phone call from him probably mid-morning after he left saying,
I had a little bit of a problem.
I've broken down on the side of the motorway.
He's run out of electric.
Unfortunately, the electric charging point he was supposed to be going to was,
believe it or not, John, broken.
So he had to go to the next one.
Unfortunately, the next one was hidden behind some roadworks,
which sent him on a 15-mile diversion, which was too many miles for the range of the vehicle.
He was then sat on the side of the motorway for three hours waiting for recovery,
and unfortunately had to obviously leave the hazards on.
And those hazards had drained the 12-volt battery.
So that meant when he was recovered to the fast charging point to plug in,
nothing happened.
Because the car couldn't make a connection with the fast charger,
he couldn't charge it in any way.
So the recovery people said, well, we've done what we needed to do.
We've got you off the motorway.
We've got you to the nearest charge point.
So we had to send a recovery truck all the way from Gosport up to Boraxshire to pick him up.
He left at 9 o'clock in the morning.
He got back to the dealership at 9 p.m. at night and swore never to let the range
on an electric vehicle drop below 50 miles ever again.
So yeah, it's a learning curve for us all, isn't it, John?
So a question for you, James.
What did you explain to the customer?
Oh, well, basically, we were very honest.
We said, unfortunately, I delivered a drive around out of electric.
That caused a few issues.
We brought it back to base.
We've obviously had to change the 12-volt battery since we've checked that it does fast charge,
a local M&S fast charging point, and it does.
And Joe will be delivering it very shortly today.
So fingers crossed, it gets there.
Fingers crossed, yeah.
So I move that the electric vehicles are very interesting.
Like, they're incredibly popular.
We're finding that the cars that we buy have been snapped up fast,
bought an MG ZS EV last week.
We advertised it on AutoTrader for a day, and it sold incredibly quickly.
So there's a lot of demand out there, but you need to really
gen up on how these vehicles work.
You need to understand them.
And unfortunately, not all of us do.
So it is a real learning curve.
But I would suggest people do try, because they do sell quickly.
It's interesting you say you could have sold it 15 times over as well,
because didn't you look it up on AutoTrader if I dreamed this?
And there's not many say at mes in the country for sale.
There was 20 at that time.
And all of them were a lot more expensive than ours.
This set at me had had 80,000 miles on it and still had 91% battery life.
So actually pretty good.
And it meant that it was very affordable.
Ours was priced at six and a half grand, and the others were around eight.
So I think the pricing point was good.
So yeah, it worked well.
I would buy some more.
Fantastic.
Well, lovely story, James.
Shall I introduce you to the guest?
Not a hint of sarcasm in your voice, Edgel.
Very good.
No, not at all.
So we've got two guests this week.
It's one of our special episodes.
So firstly, we've got automotive industry experts.
I'm going to describe him.
Jason Kranzwick.
Hello, Jason.
Good morning.
How are you guys?
Very good.
Thank you.
And of course, we've got another automotive industry expert
in the form of chief customer officer at AutoTrader, Ian Plummer.
Ian, nice to see you.
Hi there, folks.
It's great to be with you, as always,
and to enjoy your bants, the kickoff of this session.
Nice to see you.
Nice to see you both.
Ian, we'll come to you in a moment.
We've got lots to talk about,
because I know you've had a bit of an adventure
and looking forward to hearing all about it.
But Jason, lovely to see you.
We've seen you many times over the years
in a number of different positions.
You've had an amazing varied career,
from car manufacturers to franchise dealers to use cars.
Tell me about some of the highlights.
Yeah, well, thank you for that.
Very flattered.
Yeah, 37 years in the making, I guess.
So I was thinking about this the other day.
And I stepped into the world of advisory
and executive coaching 12 months ago,
literally as of now.
And I thought, well, what's got me here?
And it's the fact I've had this zigzag career
through the industry over the years.
And do you know what?
I've, it's frustrated the hell out of me many a time,
but it keeps coming back, doesn't it?
And it's great to see how the whole industry is changing.
I've always loved change.
I guess that's why I've come into sort of a change
assistance role now.
And yeah, the industry is forever giving those gifts
like you just described with the EV stuff.
But hopefully you've got a, you check the battery wealth
because I've got a client that does EV battery checking.
And if you ever needed a warranty on it as well,
just give me a call.
Oh, much appreciated.
Much appreciated.
A lot of people, Jason, will know you for your cinch days.
I mean, I know that was a little while ago,
but I'd love to hear what it was like working at that brand.
Because you were there when they, when they kicked off, weren't you?
So I went in there July 2020.
So, you know, deep in the, you know, the heart of COVID times.
So I was there for, you know, pre-launch,
getting everything sort of in a good place
and working at how we were going to go to market.
Getting the thing in the air.
I remember vividly, you know, day one,
we sold four cars online, you know, end to end.
It's like, wow, at least it works.
It was only four, but it proved it worked.
But then, you know, in the year after that,
you know, just seeing it ramp up to, you know,
four a day, 10 a day, 25, 50, 100.
You know, it's quite amazing how it went on.
It was a real privilege to be fair to spend 18 months
in the heart of consolation,
learning all about how, you know,
a vertically integrated business can really operate.
And also, you know, the whole point around
omnichannel sales, you know, it's just sales today,
and it's not online, offline, it is just sales.
But yeah, the cinch time has, you know,
took me a lot of new skills and disciplines
that I use regularly now in the work that I do.
We've seen that, we've seen that area change, though,
haven't we, that sort of online news car sales.
I mean, back then when cinch launched,
it was a real rival to, to Kazoo.
Obviously, we all know how that ended for Kazoo.
What was the thinking back then about why
you should launch a solution for selling cars online?
I mean, why do you think it was needed?
If you go back pre-COVID, a lot of people were looking at,
you know, online, a lot of vehicle manufacturers are talking
about whether they'd ever go direct to consumer,
you know, the whole agency topic was quite live then.
You know, it came out of utter necessity in COVID times,
that if you weren't online in some way that you couldn't trade,
you know, that was just a reality.
And I think there is a piece here that, you know,
customers do want choice, don't they?
They want frictionless transactions.
And, you know, we're in a world now,
and Ian's, you know, much more expert than me,
that there aren't many cars that are sold
without some level of online activity, you know,
and it could be it's just search.
It could be that it's some confidence building and trust.
I've got a client a minute that does a lot around social media,
and as we say there, it's around the social proof
and how it evidences that actually the consumer's
making the right next step going from kind of decision to action.
And, you know, at the end of the day,
not everybody's going to buy their car end to end online,
somewhere, but there's a lot of customers
that will want to know that that car's theirs
before they jump in their car and drive down to you.
You talk about, you say, at me, you know,
there was a strong like of that chap up in the West Midlands,
Michael, well, I'm going to reserve that thing,
because I don't want to drive all the way to Gosport,
only to be told by the guy in the showroom,
going, oh, yeah, really, sorry, we sold it.
Forgot to tell you before you set off.
So I think online's got its place,
and I think what Cinch did do,
so I'm becoming a bit evangelical about it now,
but it raised the bar for everybody.
So there aren't many dealers now that don't have great imagery.
There aren't many dealers now that don't have price transparency.
There aren't many dealers that haven't got some form of reservation
or route to transaction.
And now even with AI, you know,
there's a lot of people that first contact
is being done by an agent,
because it's just what some customers want,
not everyone, but some customers want that.
Yeah, you make a good point with that.
That sale, me sale, was effectively an online sale.
They'd look to the pictures, they'd watch my video,
they'd check me out online,
and they'd run up to buy the car.
I mean, they haven't met us.
They haven't seen the vehicle other than that.
But I am sort of skeptical still
of those online-only used car sales,
because I still think that people
want to meet the person that they're selling.
Do you think there's still a place
for an online-only used car sales business?
Because there isn't really one at the moment, is there?
Yeah, well, is there a place?
Yes, I think there is.
Is it going to be the dominant material,
most disruptive channel?
No, it's not, but there is a place for it.
I bought a car end-to-end online six months ago,
but I was pretty clear on what I wanted,
and I was quite comfortable with it as a process.
It is going to be there.
But I also think, unless I've completely mistaken it,
and I did see a waymo the other day,
the only people that buy cars are humans,
the only people that drive cars are humans.
In the majority, humans are centre to the sale of cars.
So it is that non-linear,
only channel, you choose when you want it,
kind of world we live in.
So I think there is a massive place for online,
and let's say a number of my clients have worked with now
are providing solutions to that space,
but they're also providing solutions to the physical showrooms.
Yeah, well, come on to what you're doing now in a moment.
After since you moved on into the franchise world, didn't you?
I mean, how was that?
It sharpens the sore, doesn't it?
If you think about it, I came like Ian did,
both of us from the previous parish of Volkswagen Group.
So in the OEM world, you hypothesize about what good looks like.
You get into the dealer world,
and you have the challenge of delivering what that vision is.
I have to say my time in Maribani was fantastic,
because I got the chance to really get deeply involved in M&A,
got the chance to do some really interesting things
with the businesses, and ultimately deliver a strategy for them.
But the reality is you're trying to get a lot of people
to walk in a similar direction,
and deliver to a consistent level of performance.
So yeah, it is a very revealing place when you're there,
as most of your podcast listeners will know every day.
Do you miss the thrust of car sales now?
I like not carrying everybody else's baggage around, I've got to tell you.
I'm in it regularly through work I'm doing with coaching and advisory,
so I get my buzz.
Do I miss the pressure that is there of delivering at that level?
Candidly? No, I don't.
But what I do enjoy is helping people unlock performance,
which is what I do today.
But yeah, there is something about being in a showroom environment.
Got to tell you, I did miss it when I was working exclusively online in Siege.
It was the thing that brought me back because I missed the contact with people,
because I was spending pretty much all day every day doing this,
as many of us did, but the connection with people is important.
Yeah, tell me a little bit about what you're doing now then,
and some of those businesses that you're working with.
Yeah, so I've always fancied doing portfolio, as we call it.
I fancied working across multiple businesses.
Candidly, I thought it'd probably be the thing I did at the end of the career.
I had an opportunity last year to exit Maribene, and I was 54 at the time.
My kids, to be fair, have been saying,
Dad, you should qualify as a coach because you spend a lot of time coaching people.
So I put myself through the ILM Executive Coaching and Mentoring Programme,
which I massively misunderstood.
I thought this was going to be a quick tick box.
I'd be able to do it in three or four days.
It's like a master's depth, although not breath.
So that was fairly consuming for four or five months last year.
And then I took myself through Cranfield School of Business
to do their Non-Exec Director Programme, which was really good,
because if you're going to be an advisor, you've got to know where that line is.
That side is executive.
This side is non-executive.
The line's there for a reason of not stepping too far over.
So I did that, and to be fair,
there's a few other friends that have gone through it in the industry since.
And I entered the world of working as a coach and advisor.
And initially, I thought it'd be interesting to see how many clients I could pick up.
And I got three or four early days,
but now I work across a portfolio of about 10 retained clients across the ecosystem.
One dealer, a couple of OEMs, some finance businesses,
some startup businesses, and a big US tech business.
And I coach about a dozen leaders.
Some of them are from within those client bases,
and some of them are individuals, usually C-suite somewhere,
either trying to work out how they're changing their businesses,
or candidly trying to work out how they change their jobs.
And that's kind of where I come in as a coach.
So yeah, it's been fun.
I must imagine that when you're a non-executive director,
it must be quite difficult not to cross that line.
I'm sure, you know, when you've been in the industry so long,
and you've kind of, you've been heavily involved in businesses,
it must be really difficult to sort of hold yourself back sometimes.
Yeah, there's a nuance in it,
which is I haven't yet taken on a non-exec role for exactly that purpose,
but that's where my advisory, there's a distinction between non-exec and advisory.
Advisory lets you get your foot slightly over the line,
and sometimes touch your toe.
And that seems to be the space I'm spending more time at a minute,
because, you know, I've got a few clients that do want the,
we need your input and your action versus we need your theory.
Give me one of your pearls of wisdom then,
for these leaders you coach.
I mean, what's a pearl of wisdom that you give them?
Oh, God. Wow.
I'm basically looking for a freebie.
Yeah. I tell you what, I saw one on the wall of a prospective client the other day,
which resonated because I've said it before,
and I think it's about be more Yoda than Superman.
And I think, you know, that resonates.
You know, there's a lot of people that, and a lot of my clients,
just getting them to stop and think and breathe and just pause,
you know, which is a classic kind of coaching thing.
The right ideas are in there,
but it's just stopping them running around trying to put out all the fires
and getting them just to sit and reflect and just be a little bit more Yoda than Superman.
So that's one that's there that I guess resonates, maybe.
And give me your thoughts on the industry currently,
and where do you think we are in terms of car sales?
Good, bad, what are you hearing?
So what I'm hearing from different parts is, you know,
there's a market to play in, you know.
So, funny enough, I was with one of the Chinese manufacturers the other day,
and as they were saying, you know, the market is growing,
which is good news, but it is growing by the equal to the sales of the Chinese brands.
So, you know, we've got some incrementality now,
but it's going to the Chinese brands.
Maybe that's a good sign for some of the established that they're not all losing ground,
but they happen to work super hard.
I think consumers are more demanding than ever,
but so they should be because the bar was too low before,
so I think consumers should expect more.
We talk a lot with clients around the compression of margin,
you know, you can see that, you know, margins have been squeezed everywhere,
so that's driving some interesting behaviors.
And of course, there's the cost up, you know,
everybody's having to deal with these costs up.
So that's probably where things like trying to use AI,
you know, is going to get some efficiency.
A lot of people really now trying to tackle their legacy of technology,
and say, you know, clients in particular,
trying to really help dealers, you know,
think again about their tech stack that they're using.
But I think the other thing that I am seeing still,
is this too wide a performance dispersion,
you know, when you talk to group heads,
they're saying, you know, we've got some really good ones in the middle,
we've got a couple of stellar ones,
but I've still got these ones down here that just don't perform.
And I can see Ian's face,
you'll remember that was our biggest thing in OEM world, wasn't it?
Spursion charts, I mean, that was our life, wasn't it?
So how do you level it up?
So I think that's probably still the thing to crack.
And you touched on Chinese cars there,
I mean, what's your thoughts on how they've managed to just corner this market so quickly?
It's incredible. It is incredible, isn't it?
You know, when you look at, you know,
my OEM world was all around franchising,
and you look at the speed to which some of these brands have got to establish network,
you know, it was taking some brands, you know, 20, 30 years to get to that scale,
they're doing it in 20, 30 months.
You know, so it is incredible.
Product quality is great.
And actually, I was at an event yesterday with a client
and talking to some of their sort of shareholders,
and it was amazing.
And they were like, well, yeah, you know, I've got a BYD now,
I had a Porsche before, but I've got a BYD now.
And you go, wow, you wouldn't have ever expected that.
But we often get a bit hung up about brands, don't we?
There's a lot of people out there that just want mobility and reliability.
That's something that came up on a number of these podcasts
that I was chatting on this week.
And I think that the thing for me that's amazed me
is how these consumers don't care about brands as much as we thought they did.
You know, we all thought that they would always stick to Audi's and BMW's and Mercedes,
but actually the price point of these vehicles, the tech, has attracted them in.
They honestly don't care.
And I think that's what's probably amazed me the most.
It's probably a perfect time to ask Ian a few questions about what you've been up to.
I know you've just come back from Beijing,
so perfect person to talk to us about Chinese cars.
I mean, you've been at that motor show, huge motor show.
I've been to one of them before.
I mean, give me an idea of what it was like, what was the atmosphere like?
It is totally off the scale.
If you think of any motor show you've ever been to anywhere in Europe,
or Detroit, or whatever, start again.
It's nothing like it.
It's absolutely nothing like it.
The Beijing version alternates between Beijing and Shanghai each year.
This time, I think it was 380,000 square meters of exhibition space, about 2,000 exhibitors,
1,453 new car models on display, 181 world premiere launches.
That's heard of.
I mean, it's just insane.
So it's off the charts in terms of scale.
Everything moves so fast.
The market is so fast.
The market over there we have to remember in China is one in three worldwide sales.
So it is by far the largest.
It's bigger than the US and Europe put together.
It is by far the biggest in terms of new energy vehicles, as they call them,
Pehev and Bev.
So they're moving ahead of the game.
And what you benefit from going over to China, in my shoes at least,
is understanding the market and understanding what's likely to come over here.
Because as we've just talked about, we headlined the feedback we're sharing from China
is what goes on in China doesn't stay in China.
Not like a tour or a golf weekend with your friends.
It definitely comes over here pretty damn quick.
China speed like.
So it's useful to understand all of that and get ahead of it.
But also it's useful to understand which brands are likely to come.
And we've seen some of them already come do extremely well.
We met with a whole bunch more who are in the pipeline to come in the months ahead.
So it's fascinating.
It's a whirlwind place.
I just have one last point.
You guys have seen it.
You've filmed lots of stuff.
I've seen you obviously out and about.
You would not believe the amount of influences on a given stand.
There are probably, I mean, there are three digit numbers of influences on every single stand.
And this is the VIP press day where it's all the big bosses are there doing the press conferences.
But the stands are full of people with a phone in their face.
Looking out at the cars in front of them and just talking away live streaming.
All the phone pointing towards them.
Very simple low tech versions.
But they do it brilliantly and they have huge followings.
And the Chinese audience just laps this up.
They are fascinated by their cars, rightly so.
Maybe that's what we're getting wrong, John.
I mean, we're going to have to get a camera straight on your face and in front of every car.
I mean, across this bourgeois style.
Oh, that'd be brilliant.
Yeah, we should do that.
That's that social proof we said before.
You know, a lot of people now, they want the authentic proof.
So it's less about and also from a from a search point of view, you know,
kind of generative search now is changing things.
But, you know, people want to know what other people would do in their position.
And that you can't overlook.
Yeah, no, definitely not.
I mean, when I was out in China, I was I was staggered by the scale of it.
And I came back from that show just realizing that is the car industry now.
I mean, it is absolutely centered around that country and what they're doing.
You've obviously spent a lot of time there on the ground.
I mean, what it's when we're looking back with the data that we've got on the brands here,
it's kind of quite hard to to put that into context.
I'm giving me some context.
One bit of context is quite important as you see an awful lot of UK dealers.
You and I managed to meet up in Las Vegas at NADA, there's quite a few dealers that go over
to NADA to see what's going on in the world of tech in automotive.
There's a lot more now going to China because they're going over either with
Geely, Cherry, BYD, Shang-An and so on or connected to those people.
And they're going over there because they're in a great position to go and add in a new brand
to their to their business alongside an existing partner and so on or instead of that gives them.
I think what's really important in terms of takeaways, great leverage that retailers
didn't used to have in the in the industry.
They were told to jump by a brand this high and if they could make it great.
And if the next year they had to jump this high, they'd make it great.
But if they couldn't, it's just tough and they didn't have alternatives.
Now they have alternatives.
I think it's one important takeaway from a retailer point of view.
But I think aside from that, the market is, like I said, moving so fast technology racing ahead.
And the reason why the Chinese are coming over here, clearly they've got great cars
and they have an opportunity, but their market is so tough.
They talk about involution.
It's a new term being used over there, which is basically hyper competition,
extremely price driven challenge in the market that's compressing margins,
meaning that the profitability in the in the Chinese market is getting tighter and tighter.
That's affecting the Western brands used to make a lot of money over there.
They're losing share and profit, massively revealing their maybe other issues in Europe,
got issues in USA, the German brands are struggling in that regard.
But the Chinese brands also need to export more and more.
The growth isn't going to come so easily from China.
The EV subsidies have ended.
So they're going to have to accelerate what they're doing in markets like us.
So the cars coming over here are only going to be growing numbers likely.
BYD are looking to sell more than 1.5 million cars in export this year.
If they did, that would be cherry.
Cherry have been proud to have the number one export sort of ranking for the last 23 years.
Geely are hot on their tails.
It's going to be a really interesting sort of space.
But from a tech point of view, what you see that really changes is that they're so far ahead
in electrification.
We talk maybe on batteries in a second, come back to that.
But it doesn't feel like they need to do more to convince consumers to go electric.
When people want to do it, they do.
Or Pehev or EREV.
And now the market has moved on.
It's much more.
Last year, you could always already sense it.
Sense it was about level two plus plus and now on level three.
So that's basically in level two plus plus is basically hands off.
But you've got to be ready to put them back on again and eyes on.
And then level three, you can be hands off and eyes off.
But you've got to be able to come back into control if you need to.
So that's a great step forward.
And it feels like that's the next differentiation sort of area that brands are going to fight on.
And the sort of buzzword takeaway from the show in that regard is
it's passed electrification now.
We're on to smartification.
You've got the ADAS features I've just mentioned.
You've got the smartphone on wheels kind of via where you want to have more time in the car
that you use interestingly or usefully to either do something or watch something
or whatever.
Enjoy your time rather than just drive.
And the software defined vehicle enables all of this.
So they're moving on to a new battleground.
We're still dealing with electrification.
They're on to this smartification.
I mean, that's exactly what this industry needs, isn't it?
Another buzzword.
I'm very pleased with that.
Give me a three less answer.
Come on, it's better than that.
Love it.
Ian, I remember reading that.
I mean, there was a comment in one of the publications that when China sneezes,
the global industry catches a cold.
Did you get any sense of that?
I mean, we're starting to feel under the weather.
No, I don't think there's a problem there at all.
I think there is going to be consolidation.
Everyone talks about that.
There are lots of brands in China.
There are lots of brands over here.
We've talked about those numbers already.
There's very likely, in my opinion, groups already talking to each other.
There are Chinese brands potentially using spare capacity in UK and European plants,
which is a wise thing to do, rather than building new capacity
and then increasing the overcapacity issue we perhaps already have.
I think brands will probably tie up across continents.
You'd do well if you're, let's say, a forward, particularly good in the US.
Okay, they're good in the UK, not so good in Europe.
To tie up with maybe in Chile, they already do work together.
Really good, obviously, in China and other parts of Asia.
We're also already joined up with Renault,
both those two in some directions.
Renault, particularly good in Europe and maybe South America.
I can imagine combinations of consolidation of brands like that
that will be a growing phenomenon,
as they have to deal with the challenges of the industry.
So it's not just China.
The China market is increasingly competitive,
therefore less profitable than it used to be.
The US market, obviously, has the tariffs,
which makes things really complicated.
Let's go back to Jason, who used to work here like me in the Volkswagen group.
Audi builds all the cars it sells in America, outside of America,
a lot in Mexico.
They need to build cars in the US.
Those sort of challenges highlight any other remaining weaknesses you may have in Europe.
And in Europe, they've got to deal with electrification.
So I think the issue we're seeing is probably a good one, Jason touched on it.
All of these things are increasing the competitive pressure,
just like you see in the UK market,
with more brands selling better cars at better prices, consumers loving it.
It's growing the market up 10% retail so far year to date.
So all of that is great from a consumer point of view.
It grows the opportunity for us to buy better cars,
but it does make it tough for the manufacturers.
And there is going to be a bit of a reckoning, I think, further down the road.
Yeah, I wanted to ask about that.
I mean, we published a video on our YouTube channel about some of the brands
that we think are most at risk from these Chinese challenges,
which had a lot of comments from people who are trying to predict
where the problems are going to happen.
And we talked a moment ago about those German premium brands.
I mean, who do you think needs to watch out?
Short answer, everyone.
Because Jason touched on it, it was the same last year.
There is incrementality coming from these Chinese brands,
but they are also denting and nibbling away at market shares of other players.
Those other players, like I said, are also increasing their competitive offers.
There's a far stronger level of retail offers that was in the market
right at the start of the year, which is what led the retail market
to be so strong rather than playing a bit of a catch-up, push at the last minute,
end of quarter, sort of a self-reg exercise.
It was a much healthier retail-driven market, but that was costly.
So everyone's reacting.
If any brand says to you that they don't think they're being nibbled away at
by the Chinese in new entrants and the quality of products
and the competitive pricing, it's not cheap, but it's great value,
as I think Jason touched on as well, great content and options and so on, richness.
And I think those brands would be like frogs in boiling water.
They're not seeing it coming because it might be a bit here and a bit there,
but they will end up boiling to the alive if they don't react.
Luckily, I think they are reacting.
Can some react quicker quickly enough?
Yes, we'll all do it quickly enough, maybe not.
So it's going to be a really interesting space to watch.
I think there are brands that are in far better position than others,
and particularly those would be the ones who've already learned the lessons from China,
not just reacting and selling differently in China or trying to change their
operations over there, but learning from how the Chinese build cars in less than two years,
often 18 months, how their software defined vehicles make them cheaper to build in the
first place, how they gigacast them, have sell-to-body batteries that are lower cost,
simpler to integrate, how they have a fast rotation of the models if they don't quite work well.
They bring them to market much more effectively in terms of the way they digitize their route
to market. So all of those things are being learned by the likes of,
I know Renault are doing that, BMW are doing that, Volvo are doing that.
There are many great examples. Others need to potentially challenge harder on their head offices
who don't always have the same perception of what's happening in China and a bit further away from it.
My last question on this is, give me a take on what you think is going to happen in the
used car market when these huge numbers of Chinese cars that are being sold
end up back on used car dealers' full cost. How's that going to change the market in terms of
pricing, in terms of demand? What do you think is going to happen?
Well, there's a few starters for 10 here. One is to bear in mind that there's no
single cohort of Chinese cars. They are, like we would always say,
each car needs to be looked at on its own merits. So there are different levels of
appreciation we can already see in different models, depending on when they came to market,
how they were brought to market, how successful they've been, which is no different to any model.
So it's hard to generalize completely. But if you take the case of a JQ7,
it's flying in the new car market, number one car last month. It might be the number one car
year to date by the time we've finished April. And it is also flying in the used market.
A lot of the BYD product has extremely good depreciation rates, doing very well too.
If a certain model has been pushed too hard in some of the short cycle areas of rental and comes
back in large volumes, as has always been done by many brands in the history of time,
and will no doubt be done by some of these Chinese brands, that will cause that particular product
to decline. We don't see at the moment any reason to believe that all of the Chinese
brands are doing that. When you look at their channel mixes and how they're selling cars,
they're pretty much in line with the rest of the market. So every now and then,
there's probably a bit of a push too much in one channel by one brand, but not as a general rule.
The last thing I'd just say, your point on EVs, well, they're not all EVs, these guys,
they're growing their EV share, they're growing the PHAV and EREV share even faster.
They've radically changed that market. And the interest that they've created in the EV market
is fantastic. We're seeing with the fuel prices that are going up and up all the time, a huge rise
in interest in EVs. 20% of all the leads for three to five-year-old cars are coming from EVs.
A big part of not to five-year-old cars are coming to EVs now. That's a six percentage
point increase in where we were this time last year. And the chart is like this in the last few
weeks. So it's good news for selling EVs, especially if you've got to see it, me to get off your hands.
And I would only recommend, James, that you get a few more of those cars because they're likely
to be more and more people thinking that the cost of running them is going to be a good thing to
get into. Yeah, we've definitely seen it in. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for
giving us the update from China. Our China correspondent, much appreciated. Nice to see
you both, but John, we should probably do some stories. Now, a quick word from one of our sponsors.
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trade.autotrader.co.uk. Now, back to the podcast.
So, James and I are going to run through our favorite stories of the week. And at the end,
Jason and Ian get to decide which one of us chose the best ones and who is the winner and
hopefully not get into a tie break situation. James won last week, I think.
I did. Thank you. Eight seven, John, just for the record. Right, lots of interesting stuff
this week. But I am going to pick the story that I wrote.
Not that that matters, which is about Hendy's Results. So this is the south coast dealer group
that is very close to us, probably the closest franchise dealer group to us here in Gosport.
They had a very Tory time in 2024. So their accounts have just been published extremely late,
showing what the company calls extremely disappointing results of an 18.1 million pound
loss before tax. So these are the accounts for the end of 2024. They've said in this report that
the company will also make a loss in 2025. So they've had a very difficult time.
They breached their banking covenants in September and December 2025. That gave the
group's lenders the right to demand immediate repayment of their loan. So they've had a cash
injection from their shareholders last year, but they have now managed to refinance that business
with a new facility, which will cover them for 12 months. But I don't think they're out
of the woods yet. The auditor's BDO have warned that there was material uncertainty
that was casting significant doubts on the company's ability to continue as a going concern.
The company's taken some serious action as a result of this. This is including hiring some
new talent, new chief operating officer, the former looker's director Duncan McPhee joined
the business during 2024. Dash Gupta, who you may have heard of, John joined the business as
executive, non-executive chairman. So he's helping guide that business. And since then,
they've had to take some what the business is calling key actions as a result of those what
they're saying were market conditions and their trading performance. So this has included
exiting relationships with Maserati and Moque. Always thought the Moque was a bit of a weird
one. They've closed that relationship. They've significantly reduced their representation
with Honda. They've closed down a used car supermarket and they've reduced their staff
numbers by 9%. Hendy's also taken on a number of different new manufacturers. Just to continue
the theme of the podcast, they've recently added Geely, BYD, Cherry, Emoda and Jaku. So
they're trying to turn around some of these some of this portfolio that they've got.
But these accounts do not make pretty reading, John. I mean, they were incredibly late,
first and foremost. And they are telling a very difficult story for that business,
that very tough 24, a very tough 2025. And you just need to compare that to the story that we
were talking about. I think it was last week, Swansway Motor Group accounts for 2025 showed
a profit of 10 million pounds. So if this big group is in Hendy is making a loss last year,
there's clearly some troubles there. So I don't think it's all rosy in the franchise
new Cardila world. No. And I mean, those people on this podcast will be much better placed to
analyse these results than me. But I mean, from your point of view, James, where do you think this is
what's going on exactly? Is it a brand issue? I think it is said there. But you know, they've
taken on Cherry, Emoda and BYD, you say, and Geely. So they've really hedged their bets on the
Chinese stuff in the last, you know, year or so. But of course, these results predate all that.
So was it a lot of eggs in the Ford basket and the Honda basket and so on?
Awesome. I mean, we know the story that's happened to Ford, don't we? Over the over the last few
years, very, very different. Hendy Ford was the was the first Ford dealer in the UK,
some hundred years ago, very proud of it. They are too. But you know, that business has changed
rapidly. I think the other thing I would say is I think you have hit the nail on the head there
with the fact that they have got a very diverse portfolio of brands, 22 different marks they're
representing, which is that's difficult. That's a lot of relationships to manage. And if you compare
that to the Swansway Group, who have got, you know, a much smaller portfolio of franchises,
which probably is a little bit easier to manage, it's sometimes easier to to really make those
smaller businesses perform even better because you can have a closer handle on it. Maybe it's
just got a little bit too big with too many, too many brands. I don't know. Ian, Jason,
either of you want to give me any context whatsoever would be helpful.
Well, I think the Hendy folks have done a lot of the right moves. I know Duncan very well,
extremely smart operator. We work closely with them as a group and they've shared a lot of
insight that I can see is already making a big difference to their results. Their brand changes,
I think, are all very smart ones, and that will, I think, push things in the right direction. So
I'm pretty confident in their regard. As to your wider point about franchise retailers, it's certainly
not easy, but there are some great examples. You mentioned Swansway. I've just come back from Scotland,
apart from China, after China, went to see East and West and met from there yesterday.
Another extremely strong performer. They got more of the traditional brands. They're very strong
there with Cherry Group as well, but they're strong in Mercedes and BMW and Volkswagen, etc.
And they have Swansway like, even better than Swansway like results. So it's not a generalized
issue. It is possible, whichever brand you've got, but it's never easy. We know I've been a retailer,
Jason's been a retailer, you're currently retailing, we all know it's them hard.
So I just wish them the very best. Yeah, I think nobody wants to see a business go through tough
times. Jason, what do you all take it? I think you just made the right comment,
James. I think we should have empathy. Look, these are complex businesses. And the handy boys,
and like Ian says, they are individually and collectively really good operators,
but clearly they happen to go back and make some adjustments in their business,
either brand or people or locations. But I think what it does talk to is, look,
we all go out there with best endeavors, and sometimes you just have to make adjustments.
I heard someone say it the other day, though, if you're going to have a bath, have a deep bath.
Yeah, very, very, very good point. Yeah, it's sometimes worth getting that bad news out the way
and to move on. Does that be smartification for being... No, I still like that one more.
We've got Yoda Superman in here. I mean, the clips for social out of this podcast could be
incredible, couldn't they? Yeah, and it's great news for our sponsorship deal with Redox as well.
Right, John, move us on from Alan's deep bath.
Okay. I am going to talk about, well, I'm going to talk about AI, I'll talk about
auto trader and AI actually, because news this week that auto traders AI tools wrote 2.5 million,
very loud motorbike going by, 2.5 million car adverts in the first 12 months of going live,
which I just think is incredible, an incredible number. I'm not just blowing smoke here yet.
I was genuinely surprised how many adverts were written by this, because it's not just the
co-driver AI tool writing all the adverts, it's also image rearrangements and all that sort of stuff.
So it was the sheer numbers that surprised me. Did you see this, James? I know you've got it
enabled in your accounts, I think, haven't you? I did. And I would have to say that I've never
used it. And Ian, please don't shoot me. There's a reason for that. I am a writer. I mean, if I
can't write my own adverts, there is a serious problem. Sorry, I'll just translate that. You're
a control freak, James, is what you're saying. Also that, yeah, also that. But I can see why
it would be very useful to a number of people, because I look at a number of adverts on
auto trade, and still there are some people who just put, you know, Black Ford Fiesta. And it's
those are the ones where if they can just click a button that writes it for them, then they should
be. Ian, tell us a little bit about it. Well, I think what most people recognise with AI is that
it is best, it seems first at least, I'm sure lots of other things will happen. Right now,
it's best to take away the mundane, allowing people to focus on what they do best. I mean,
Jason talked about it with regards to online sales. Lots of consumers want to do lots of online
work, but they want the physical sort of sea touch, smell drive, benefits of an advice of the
physical retail experience. The combination is what works. Same with car adverts. You can't
really do a good job with authentic imagery if you don't actually get out and take the pictures.
So we want people to really focus on digital merchandising quality with that in mind. But
most retailer salespeople and so on that end up writing these ads are not that good, like you,
James, are writing. It's not what they like. It's not what they enjoy. Therefore, they don't do
it that well. It's a vicious cycle. You end up with people who miss things out, make spelling
mistakes, writing caps as if they're Donald Trump on a... So it's best that you take away the mundane.
We'd always recommend, and some of the best operators in this regard will take the AI version,
then top and tail it with a bit of stuff about the retailer and their own promise and so on.
But you've got the real core content that you know is right. You've not missed anything.
The attention grabbers will be the right ones, which data say for that type of car will be the
things that turn the heads of the consumer. And you can focus your mind on what you do best rather
than writing the ads. Jason, have you had a play around with that? Have you used it?
Have any experience? I run my world on AI. I have to being a sort of self-trader.
But yeah, I mean, I think to Ian's point, AI, it's a bit like having an 18-year-old intern.
You don't just chuck their report straight into the board. You have to read it,
but they'll come up with some really great stuff. And back to the cinch point, you won't find a car
on cinch just saying black in shouty capitals. The taxonomy, the inventory descriptions,
the natural language that the bar has been reset at. That's available to everybody now.
But as you rightly say, a lot of the guys and girls that are doing this,
this isn't the only thing they'll be doing that day. They've probably sat there with their head
blown because they've got all the stuff going on. So why wouldn't you get assistance from AI?
I think it's a great tool, but it doesn't take away from the human touch.
But if it gets 90% there and you just then have to fine tune it, then why wouldn't you
then crack on with making money? Jason, I love the fact that you describe
yourself as a sole trader and I've got this image of you in mind sort of pushing a cart with apples
and pears and selling down the local farms markets. I'll get more like the guy after the
Second World War. Do you want to watch? Yes, actually. Yeah, you did. Ian's touch.
Right, I'm going to move this on. Brilliant. My next story I'd like to pick is news from
Virtue Motors who have announced to the stock market this week that they're going to receive
a £3.4 million insurance payout off the back of the JLR cyber attack disruption.
I mean, John, have you ever had a payout that big? I'm sure you have.
Yeah, I spilled some red wine on the carpet.
Yeah, I remember it well. I remember you having to update the stock market as well.
Yeah, this is news from Virtue Motors that they are going to get that cash a huge amount of money.
It's going to make a big impact to their numbers. £2.4 million of it will help their profit before
tax numbers for the end of February 28. Those figures we will see in the not too distant future.
But this comes as a result of that cyber attack the JLR suffered last year. And I think we all
focused at the time on the manufacturer. It was having a very difficult time. Obviously couldn't
make cars. They had their production line shut for weeks. I mean, it was an incredible time,
that impacted not only that brand, but the economy. Such was the scale of that cyber attack.
But off the back of that, you had a number of dealers. I remember John, you and I went to one,
didn't we? During that time, one of those JLR franchises that was pretty much dead,
wasn't it? There was hardly anybody in it. They were having to do deals on paper. We were asking
them whether they could sell us new cars and they didn't really know, did they? It was a very
strange time. And when you've got a business that has got a huge site with lots of overheads,
if you're losing money and you're not able to sell cars, you're going to lose that money hand over
fist. And virtue has got a lot of JLR franchises. So I mean, fair play to them for having an
insurance policy in place that's covered this. Because I'm not sure that everybody will have
had one of those. So yeah, it's nice to see that they've had a big payout, 3.9 million in total
has been agreed. They lose half a million pounds of that as a, what was it called? A deductible?
Yeah, deductible amount. I can't remember. That's what I'm talking about, excess. But in total,
3.4 million pounds. So yeah, quite substantial that. It's interesting to see a number applied
to it, isn't it? Because as you say, they've got a lot of JLR franchises. I don't know how many
there are exactly. But as you say, people without insurance policies like this, presumably will
have borne a similar hit. But we won't know about it, of course, because it won't until the results
come out. It must have been hard to quantify what that, well, I mean, clearly it has been
quantified because they've got the money, but it must have been hard to get to a figure. Jason,
how would they have done that? It's that hard, is it? Because you've got a historical trend,
and you've got, you'll be able to identify what the delta is between what you'd expected to get
and what you've got. I thought you made a great point because when I read it, I got super excited
because my dealer client is quite an extended JLR client. So I thought JLR had been incredibly
generous and come out with a check only to realise it was an insurance payout.
But what it does talk about there, virtue, incredibly well-run business, really strong
governance, they're coming at it with really good risk mitigations, and they had the foresight
to have that insurance in place because that's what good businesses do. To your point, there'll
be a lot of businesses that say, well, now we don't need that. We'll be all right. And let's look at
these businesses now. If you're in the top 30, your turnover is going to be,
your turnover is going to be as big as autotrader's turnover. Okay, your profit's not going to be
the same, but these are big businesses. You've got to have these governance in place. That was one
of the great disciplines from working with global corporates. It was normal in that world,
but I understand that your entrepreneurial business, we can get away with that cost,
but it's the risk that you're exposing yourself to by not having adequate governance in place.
So well done to them for doing it and probably a really good example of the disciplines that
Robert has in that business. Yeah, fair play to them. What do you think here? It's a big sum
of money, isn't it? I was gobsmacked by the sum when I read that. No surprise to see that Robert
Forrester has had great foresight and governance, as you mentioned, Jason, a very canny operator,
very impressive to see that. It'd be great to see that other groups would have similar cover,
but I don't know whether they do or maybe we haven't heard about it. The only thing I'd just
add is that I think JLR did a great job through that period. They had lots of retailer impact,
supply chain impact as well, upstream as well as downstream. And from what I know of what they did
regarding communication to their retailers, they were extremely proactive, extremely regular
daily in their communications.date on whatever they did or didn't know. And I think they,
unfortunately, would recognize themselves. They've been through a few too many crises recently,
but you do learn a lot about your business by how you react to a difficult situation. And they
have done a great job in that regard. They work really well with us. They're the number one new
car brand on our site. 100% of their retailers advertise their cars. They stand out well. They
do a good job of it. So they were generating more orders through us, through that period than
anyone else. They had a bit of a COVID effect during that period when you couldn't get your JLR,
because the new car order rate went up and up, because people couldn't actually get hold of
one via many other routes. And the values of recent JLRs went up too, because you can get
one in the showroom. So the effects were quite positive in a way. Obviously, that created a lag
and they've worked through that lag now. They've had a fire in their supply chain in Norwegian
Plant just again recently. So I think they'll be just going like this, that they don't have any
more unforeseen and very unfortunate circumstances come their way to Duel. Yeah, fingers crossed,
that doesn't happen. I mean, obviously, they had the worry of James doing three podcasts about
the parkway. Oh, yeah, I'm sure they were quaking in their books. John, over to you. Please
move us on. Okay. I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to curry favour here, but I'm
going to talk about the new Polo, specifically the electric Polo, which VW has finally whipped
the covers off to reveal. Well, it's a bit like a Polo, really. What's interesting about it?
I know. Well, it's two interesting things. One is this is one of the first cars that they have
given up, giving a number two. So it's no more ID five, ID seven, all that sort of stuff, ID three.
It's now ID Polo. So at least they kept the VW Polo name going, even if it does have ID before
to say it's electric. But a few interesting things. I think one, firstly, is the price.
So it's on sale in Germany now, not here yet. It's about 29 grand as it stands at the minute
with a massive battery, but a version will come out 21. And an electric VW Polo for 21 grand.
You're talking euros or pounds, Tom? I'm quoting the story, which James Bachelor has written.
I'm talking pounds, apparently. I assume he's done some calculation, hopefully correctly.
But in theory, 21 grand GBP, but in Germany. So I imagine a little bit more than that here.
But that's not bad going really for a fully electric car. The other thing I want to talk about
is how they've done a bit of leveraging of their heritage, although you might not necessarily spot
that by looking at it because it looks quite new and jazzy and electric. Firstly, the name,
obviously, they've brought that back. But also they've done a few things with the interior,
like these things called buttons on steering wheels, which are revolutionary.
You don't have to look at what you're pressing. I think it'll catch on.
And then they've done some things with the digital dials as well. They've designed the digital dials
to look like, I think it's a Mark II Golf or a Mark I Golf, proper retro 80s square dials,
which looks really cool. So it's like VW has suddenly woken up and gone, oh yeah, the last
five years of products, maybe we made a few mistakes there in forgetting all the heritage
and also forgetting how people press things in cars. And maybe, just maybe, they've turned it
around. What do you think, James? Yeah, I do care because I like the fact that it's called a polo
because I love a polo. We sell loads of them. They're fantastic little cars, great brand
heritage, great brand recognition. And I think that's probably really important when you're
trying to sell an electric vehicle. You want, I think the ID3 names and ID buzz, etc. was just,
I think it was a silly thing for VW to do. I think they should have stuck to their heritage and
look what Renault has done by doing exactly that. It's been incredibly successful. I do think that
the VW group does need to catch up. They are at serious risk of these Chinese challenges. So
they need to ramp up the rollout of a lot of products like this. Ian, what are your thoughts
on this? I'll come to you first. I totally agree that I think they've made a really strong move.
I'm not saying anything. I haven't told them in past times, but I think the ID3 was the beginning
of a range of very weak electric cars. They didn't, well, I mean, I've looked, I've been
at Volkswagen several years. I've driven lots of their cars. You know what they feel like. You've
got in one of those cars and it just didn't feel like a Volkswagen. It looked like one. It was
plastic on the outside. There weren't even good wheels. There was plastic with good quality on
the inside. The tech was poor. It had software glitches. The ride wasn't as heavy and as sort
of powerful and holding the road as it normally would be in the Volkswagen. It just didn't feel
like a Volkswagen. I think Martin Sander, when he did his announcements and PR and so on for
that event, and he's the worldwide head of sales for the brand, and somebody that Jason and I
used to know, he used to run Audi over here in the UK, really smart guy, when he talked about it,
and it's been commented on several times to other people since, he talked about true Volkswagen.
And I felt that was really appropriate because the ID Polo is what you recognize as that. When
you look at that car, it just looks like a Polo. It's great heritage. It's strong. Why confuse
people with names that lose your loyalty factor when you can play on the legacy and give people
what they're likely to enjoy, brand name, product styling and so on, true Volkswagen. So I think
coming back to that, the genes of Volkswagen and playing to that positively is really good to see.
So the point of how they're playing catchback, they really are, but the German brands
deny a cluster from BMW iX3 one World Car Other Year. Mercedes have got new architectures coming
along and about 20 new models on the back of all that with different fuel types with plenty of good
electric too. I think they're all getting to like their third generation EDs now and they're going
to be a lot better. And in China, same thing happened. Volkswagen announced an in China for
China strategy two years ago for Volkswagen Brown and Audi were very strong over that market.
Mercedes doing the same thing. It's BMW, et cetera. And now two years later, you're seeing the cars
coming along. I think over there, though, they're only coming back into the market. They're becoming
competitive again, but they're not ahead of the market. They're not leading it. I think over here,
cars like this Polo, it is definitely going to be a strong contender. It might not necessarily be
the absolute leading car, but it'll be a really strong one. I think Volkswagen's only next step
that's really crucial is to embed now that X-Peng technology into the next models. It's not quite
yet there and this one, I don't believe so. That's still to come and hopefully a good opportunity.
Well, John, we're sort of rapidly running out of time. So can I just wedge one more in just
before? I was going to ask Jason, but sure. Oh, well, let's ask Jason.
I have a point of comment. Is that one going to win the most interesting story of the week?
So that's my only comment. Excellent. Let me wedge one in then. Let me do my last story.
I'd like to just talk about motors who are rebranding its advertised business as Kizoo
next month. And they say they're going to be the only credible challenger to auto-trader.
This story on Cardi in the magazine quotes, that motors name has been a feature of the
used car advertising world for almost two decades. So I do think it's a, I think this is a really
big story. I think it's a, I think it's a shame to see that motors name disappear and to be,
to be subsumed by Kizoo. That switch is going to take place on May the 27th. All web traffic,
they say, is going to transition to that Kizoo platform from this date onwards.
And that motors name is going to disappear, which a lot of dealers, you know, have,
they've worked with this brand for a long time. You know, we've worked with that brand for a
long time. John and we in on the magazine front. And it's a shame to see, I think it's a shame
to see it go, but I just think it's fascinating considering Kizoo has dominated this podcast
for so many, too many years. It's going to continue to do so, continue to do so in the
future. But under this new name, well, sorry, under this new banner of an advertising, advertising
platform. I'll give my two cents before I hand it over to our guests. Yeah, I'm surprised as well.
And I hope it doesn't turn out to be a terrible decision for them, because I just feel like
advertising at the minute is such a kind of scattered and what's the word nuance, James,
nuance. It's actually a very kind of like, there's you, a great example, James, because you're
advertising partners, if you like, you've got about eight of them almost, haven't you?
And I just think removing an option in the website where there is consistent traffic,
presumably, and lots of existing heritage, I just think why would you do that doesn't make
any sense to me when the likes of Carwell are snapping up brands that they can put more adverse
on. I don't know why you would remove one. No, just a little bit, a little bit, a little bit
confusing. But Ian, probably I'm fed to ask you your opinion. So I'll ask, I'll ask Jason instead.
What do you think? I think I think we've got the narrative. And I get it in terms of the dealer
emotion and the, oh, we really like the motors, guys. Yeah, still the same people there, or, you
know, other than the changes, but I flip it to kind of the unprompted awareness by the consumer.
There's a lot of people walking around in football shirts with kazoo written on them,
there's not walking around with motors on them. So I think from a consumer point of view,
it's probably a, it's probably a wise move from prompted awareness. But I get it.
We all get caught up in the emotion and legacy around kazoo, what was what it wasn't a lot of
consumers out there that know of kazoo because of that enormous spend that went on. Yes. So
someone might as well get the value from that. Yeah, no, you make a very, very good point.
Somebody else has spent multi millions building a brand and they've snapped it up for actually a
fraction of the price. I think they pay £5 million for that, for that name, which is incredible,
really, when you consider that brand legacy that it comes with. Yeah, very, very good point.
You spend more in weight shows than that, James.
We all spend more in weight shows now.
Yeah, it's unavoidable. It costs for a pint of milk.
Do you want me to bring us to a close, please?
Okay. So, oh, should I come to you first, Jason, before I ask your verdict,
are there any stories you think we've missed that we should have talked about this week?
None missed. No, no, I think we've missed.
Excellent. Ian, do you think there's any we've missed?
I don't know whether you did much about the China Motor Show, but if you didn't,
because it's a big thing. I don't know if you've heard about it. It's quite a big show
and it's affecting the market somewhere near you. But hey, buffing that.
James is banned, unfortunately, from China.
Allegedly, John.
What can you do? We won't know until you go back and then don't return.
Give me a phone next time and I'll do some of this recording. I'll live stream you in.
Hi, guys, etc.
So, Jason, I'm going to have to ask you, what was your pick of the stories or who's your winner?
I think in all of it, the winner is the lessons learned from virtue.
Okay.
Run a diligent, run a well-governed business.
So, that's one vote for James and virtue. Ian?
I'm going to vote for you, John, because your stories were great, but your haircut's even better.
Well, that was well worth the 150 quid that I spent.
And I think that is an accurate price, isn't it?
It is an accurate price, yeah.
Look at the 50 pounds. I mean, wow.
This takes a lot of bleaching, is all I'm going to say.
Oh, I'm sure it does.
I'm going off back here.
I'll do it for you next time, John, for 140 pounds.
Yeah. Anyway, if anyone would like any more recession-proof tips on how to spend your money,
I'll be back next week. But apart from that, that's all from us, really.
I want to say thank you to Jason for joining us and giving us your insight and also to Ian.
So, thank you both of you.
Nice to see you both. Thank you.
And thank you as well to James for cheating on me with another podcast.
And thank you for listening.
We'll be back next week with another episode.
Make sure you're subscribed.
Take it to be notified when that goes live.
I've been told to mention please like and give us five stars or whatever the term is on Spotify or similar.
I don't know if you're allowed to ask for that.
Please like the podcast and leave a relevant review.
Oh, OK. He's in the ASA. We'll be in touch.
Yeah, possibly. If you want to check out the stories you mentioned today,
like them or not, take a look in the show notes below or head to cardiganmagazine.co.uk.
Thanks for listening and goodbye.
About this episode
A wide-ranging chat moves from a memorable EV delivery disaster into the rise of online car buying, with Jason Cranswick reflecting on cinch’s early launch and how digital activity now touches most sales. The conversation then widens to China’s huge auto market, margin pressure, and the shift toward smarter, software-led vehicles. Later, the hosts cover Hendy’s losses and restructuring, Auto Trader’s AI advert tools, Vertu’s JLR-related insurance payout, and Motors’ rebrand to Kazoo.
