We Roast Member's Cars, Live at The Motoring Club — Carmudgeon w/ Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 210

Where am I?

Beats me. You tell me.

Beat you?

How I really don't know where you are.

Okay.

Hi.

Hello and welcome to this episode of...

Now I'm gonna rat you out and tell the people in the cameras that this is the third time

we're doing this intro because I fucked up once and now you fucked up again.

This is the Car Mudgeon show.

Now we're getting ratted out by our studio audience.

Okay, so the Car Mudgeon show is driven by Hagerty and we are not in our regular Hagerty studio as you might...

Have noticed they have greenery instead of a car.

And there are people there who are gonna throw tomatoes at us.

Live studio audience.

Yes, this episode of the Car Mudgeon show is live recorded in front of a studio audience.

What's that?

Recorded live in front of a studio audience.

And we're gonna torment everyone here.

We were thinking about topics for this episode and we thought what better to do than to come into a private motoring club

where people pay good money and they were nice enough to invite us here to record the podcast live

than to absolutely defecate on everyone's choices of cars.

Yeah, so it's a roasting episode.

We get to go through the audience's cars and roast on...

Think of it as a slightly alternative twist on the random number generator car reviews.

So we just have random number of people here who are gonna tell us that they love their cars

because of sentimental reasons and we'll just tell them why they're idiots.

So...

There's one winner, but there is a winner here.

Yeah, maybe one and a half.

Alright, stick around after the jingle.

Wait, wait, wait.

You guys are gonna actually hear how...

So if you've watched the podcast and I hope you do,

you know that I'm always making fun of Derek for being the world's shittiest clapper.

And so now the studio audience, I want you guys to applaud and cheer

based on Derek's actual clap performance.

So no clap anxiety here, but if you do a shitty clap, just boo him.

And if he does a moderate one, you know, just kind of like make sure he knows real-time feedback loop.

How good his clap was.

For the record, graded on the Derek curve, that was a solid A.

Normally it's like, can you do another one?

And normally it's like...

He misses, I mean, it's really bad.

We'll play the jingle and we'll come back in.

Get on with the episode with this.

Is this...

That's not a fern.

It's not?

No.

What is it?

I don't know.

I know a lot about cars, but I know nothing about plants other than how to kill them.

Very good at that.

Okay.

So we're not between two ferns.

We're between a Rolls Royce and a Fiat.

That's an abart.

I mean, it says Fiat on it.

Is it not count?

Okay.

So we are obviously not in our studio, as we mentioned in the intro, which we've definitely recorded already.

Can I get a round of applause for the intro we recorded?

Yes, thank you.

See, they fall for our bullshit here.

We are at the motoring club in San Francisco, which is a club for motorings.

Whatever a motoring is.

Well, motoring is what you do when you're in a car and you know why you get to do that.

Because you've left your car on a battery tender battery maintainer.

Oh, wow.

That was extremely smooth.

Wow.

Just so impressed.

Barely noticed that the ad slipped in there.

So everybody knows that battery tender makes battery tenders?

No, no, no.

They are battery maintainers.

Yes.

They are of the brand, battery tenders.

And you know what they do?

Maintain the battery, but also charge, start, jump.

And also jump start.

Yes.

Battery tenders, I believe the only company that makes a battery tender that also doubles as a jump starter.

And of course they work on all of your motorized devices.

Such as boats.

I was thinking of toothbrushes.

Motorcycles doesn't work on your toothbrush.

Art TVs?

Toothbrush.

They have a USB-C out in my little Philips.

We are not sponsored by Philips.

You know, you could probably charge and maintain the battery on your toothbrush.

Anything 12V.

If it were 12V.

USB-C is 5V.

Whatever it is.

Anyway.

Right.

Okay.

And you can get 20% off by using the code HAGARDY20 on battery tender dot com.

That is true.

That's the punchline, I think.

That's the meat of it.

Okay.

Punchline.

Can we have a laugh?

See?

Do we have a built-in laugh track now?

This is going to take some getting used to.

So yeah, Derek loves having a live studio audience.

See?

That is the look of true authentic happiness.

Pleasure and joy.

And you guys are going to love being here because we have a special topic for you.

Which is that?

You want to tell them?

No, I think you originated this.

Okay.

So we're going to roast the shit out of all of your cars.

And so what I mean by that is we were thinking we could do one of the sort of random car

generator, random number generator car reviews where we go back through our archives and

look at thing cars that we reviewed and be honest about it.

And I thought why do that when we have a sea of people who we can humiliate publicly?

The good thing is there's no cameras on you guys so you can claim anonymity when we say

terrible things.

Or you can just ask us to be nice, which will make me way worse.

Or skip you guys.

So we thought that would be a fun way to break the ice and then we can also do some sort

of ask me anything or ask us anything.

If you guys have any questions about the podcast, about our career, both of us reserve the

right to just say shut the fuck up if you ask a question that we don't think will be

interesting to the audience at large.

Or in case of Derek has to do with his other career, which you guys all know about.

I don't think I know about it.

You tell.

Don't Google it.

You told me not to talk about your only fans.

My what?

Your only fan.

I don't know about it yet.

Your mom.

She subscribes to it.

She pays you.

Okay.

Well done, Jason.

I'm trying.

That worked really well.

Did it?

No.

How are we going to do this?

Does anyone want to volunteer?

No.

They don't have a choice.

We're going to you guys.

So you guys are members of this club.

And so what we understand about this club, we are not members.

We would not be accepted.

We would not be allowed.

But our esteemed producer, Mike over there is a member also.

Oh, he's looking very he works here.

Partial owner, founder, whatever, but he does something.

I don't know.

Operates operates is sitting in the corner of the motoring club.

That much we know for sure.

And so there are two locations for this.

You can find them at the motoring club.com.

There's San Francisco location and LA location.

And they do events here, like in the space.

That is a coffee shop, which is not wiring, wiring, why I'm wired right now.

But I didn't have too much coffee.

And back here is a stretched Rolls Royce looking thing.

So you can have phone booth in the club, I guess.

If you need to take a call in private, you can, you can do that.

Okay.

We're just going in order.

Are we doing this?

Sure.

So you can tell us your daily driver.

What we want to know is, again, ask if you want us to be nice.

You just don't want us to pass it.

Tell us a car and we'll give you our honest opinion of it and possibly make it sound a lot worse than it is.

So you're smiling.

You're fucked now.

You have two cars.

Do we need to do both or choose one?

No, we can get both.

We've got multiple points of entry, right?

So he's got two cars, a daily and a special car.

So I'm going to repeat everything you guys say just because we don't have a mic on you.

So you don't sue us.

So if no one knows who you are, you can't sue us for slander or defamation.

See how this works?

Law degree.

Okay.

Wait, wait.

We're fucked.

Right.

So your daily is an M52 swapped 318T.

318Ti.

So that's an E36 compact.

With a 3-2 in it?

With a 2-8.

With a 2-8 in it.

Okay.

And a very 444 rear end.

So it's screaming at 9200 RPM at 41 miles an hour.

Okay.

How are the bearings?

How's the bottom end?

It's fine.

It's an M.

Yes, not an S.

It's a quarter million miles an hour.

It's an M engine, not an S engine.

So BMW term that means it's not an actual M slash slash.

Yes, M stands for not motorsport.

Yeah, not M.

Yeah, M stands for not M.

So if the motor says M on it, the car doesn't.

They use it up all the M on the engine.

Oh, they should totally use it as their ad campaign.

There's no M left for the engine.

Okay.

So your daily is that?

987 Spider.

Okay.

So this presents a bit of a problem.

Because you like them both?

Yeah.

I mean, they're kind of hard to fault.

We're going to, but we're kind of hard to fault.

So the thing about the 318 Ti's, which was the E36 slash 8 or something?

No, 8 is Clown Shoe.

8 is Clown Shoe.

Exactly.

So the thing about that car is it's an E36 up front and an E30 in the back.

And the E30 had that semi-trailing on.

Like all of the short wheelbase E36s.

So that's the Z3, both open and closed and the compact.

Right.

Which means that it can't put its power down and snap over steers when you try to get off

of the power.

Both of which are really fun things, especially when you have a lot of power, which you now

have.

And structural rigidity, which you don't get in the Z3 open version.

So it's kind of hard to fault.

That's honestly a very cool car for a city.

You're laughing.

Like you're expecting me.

I'm going to say something really terrible and I'm trying to.

You should be proud of that.

That's a really cool two car solution, especially for a city.

Do you live in the city of San Francisco?

Yeah.

I think that the Porsche has shit for the city personally.

Yeah.

I mean, no, no axle lift.

So you can't go anywhere except for leave the city.

Except the good thing about Porsche is that they always have those sacrificial little

spoilers up like on the front.

So at least you're not scraping off all of the paint.

And I had the displeasure of learning that on an I-97 GTS, that part is $1,500.

But on like a GT3, it's like $200.

Yeah.

And regular cars are like 13.

Yeah.

They're very, very cheap.

But anyway, it's okay.

So you're an idiot for having bought a spider and not just, you know, just a regular old

Boxster is what Derek's saying.

Oh, I don't think that's what I was saying.

That's exactly what Derek was saying.

We're trying here.

Come on.

Like, you know, this is the problem.

You have cool cars.

And I guess this may be a flaw in my judgment of like, we're going to roast the shit out

of these people and they're all car people.

So we might, we, yeah, you might get away with us not doing so.

But, but no, honestly, Boxster spider is amazing.

That's a very, you know, one of the high points of the last 20 years has been the high point

of the last 20 years has been basically everything that Porsche has made sports car wise.

They're incomparable at this point.

Not everything they've done sports car wise.

Does anybody here have a Porsche turbo?

Hmm.

You jumped a couple places ahead.

Why?

Oh, he wanted, he wanted a 997.2.

And so he chose turbo.

Okay.

Would you, do you have anything to say?

No.

Are we just going to ask him to leave?

Like, sorry, you've been removed from the club.

I mean, he didn't have to admit that.

There must be some, like, you know, some dysfunction.

I don't feel like we could add anything we haven't already said.

It has a men's car engine in it.

Okay.

No.

Oh, it doesn't, it doesn't have a go.

Go.

You're digging your hole a little bit deeper.

Is it a convertible automatic as well?

It's an automatic.

That's PDK.

We have nothing to say to you.

Okay.

You in the back are smiling at this.

You're next.

Make it sing.

I've got a 1987, 325.

1987, 325.

Period.

The most base model you could get.

325.

I or E?

E.

E. Okay.

It's a Frankenstein.

It's a full M-Tech one conversion.

So it's a Frankenstein full M-Tech one conversion.

What's the red line?

Five.

So it's an Eda.

It's a 2.7.

Okay.

Coop.

Yeah.

I mean, how do you fault an E30?

By having the 5,500 RPM red line.

Okay.

I mean, I'm trying to now think, what is the red line on your Jaguar?

It's from 1957.

The engine's from 1948.

It has its self-motivates.

It drives by itself.

It's a car.

That was a big deal.

You didn't answer my question.

I don't know.

Is it like 5,500?

Yeah.

Okay.

So Derek doesn't like your car because it has the same red line as his Jaguar does.

I don't even think they were that high though.

I feel like they were like, it's chipped.

Okay.

Yeah.

Because originally it wasn't like a 4,500 RPM red line.

That you can make fun of.

But a 5,500 RPM, you know.

Come on.

You know.

You can't fault an E30.

And that's it.

You have one car?

One I was bidding on this weekend with a 1992 Ford Bronco.

He was bidding on a 92 Ford Bronco.

Is that the OJs?

I can't remember that.

That's OJ.

OJ spec.

Was it like white with, okay.

Any bower green on damn.

Wood tone, I believe, is the term that was used to indicate fake wood in period.

I should have just called it trashy fake wood.

If you want to die in a rollover, I mean man, perfect car to do that in.

Make sure it's got firestone.

So it does the firestone flip.

Yes.

Okay.

But that's it's one car.

Well, we should roast that.

That's fucking stupid.

You need 10 more.

Next.

You look very serious and scared.

Okay.

01 SL 500.

The Mercedes SL convertible fan.

Didn't you just do an episode about the R129?

I did.

And didn't you just fillate it without fail and stop for the entire duration of the episode?

Fillate is a strong word.

Which is also an accurate word.

01 29.

There's nothing.

Yeah.

Oh, how many of your hydraulic roof cylinders have failed this week?

I've had it four years since all of it worked.

Four years they've always worked in that they've always leaked hydraulic fluid onto the ground.

So funny story.

We did.

We did that revelations episode and we had three in the in the studio.

So one of them was at three for anyone who hasn't seen it 300 to 500 and 600, all of which belong to friends of ours.

Well, one of them was yours.

Go figure.

We surround ourselves with Saco era Mercedes people.

Two of the three cars in the studio leaked hydraulic fluid unexpectedly.

Yours is the only one that didn't.

And you know why it didn't?

Because the reservoir is empty.

Well, I could be because you just spent as much as a small house replacing that roof.

And that's I'm sure I didn't do the hydraulics actually when I did the roof.

No, I was stupid.

I mean, why, why did you make that decision?

Because it's still working.

Okay.

Are they original?

Of the 12 cylinders, hydraulic cylinders in the car 10 are original.

Wow.

That's pretty amazing.

Yeah.

That's honestly, I mean, when you, when you talk about one 29s.

In all seriousness, there, I didn't say it in the video, but the one weakness is those hydraulic things, but there are maintenance items.

They, they're not that expensive to fix.

You had a hell of a time in one of your cars.

I did do them all.

And when I did, I think I did eight of them.

How many?

Do you know like how many hours that books for at a dealership?

Like how many labor hours or what a, what it would cost to drop one off at a shop.

I get that question all the time and I don't know.

It's more than $5,000.

Okay.

And the cars are like $5,000.

If it's a good one.

No, that's not true.

They can be quite expensive.

I would be only roast.

I have the offers that you have the wrong engine and year.

Yeah.

So that's the M 113.

That's the single cam per bank without variable valve timing.

Yeah.

And the wrong seats and the wrong wheels steering wheel and the wrong steering wheel, wrong door panels.

Oh, does he have the stupid ugly chrome rings on the gauges too?

Do you?

Yes.

Yeah.

They were on the wrong gauges and the wrong body.

Oh, the fucking taillights.

That's the wrong taillights.

Oh, and the two.

The wrong headlights.

The three holes instead of two on the side.

Yeah.

The wrong side.

The wrong socket boards.

Okay.

Good.

Thank God.

See, now we're getting there.

Okay.

Finally.

But it's the right car.

It's, you know, like Derek is like a slow crank on an old carbureted shit box.

Eventually you rile him up and he's bitter and nasty.

Well, it's a subject that's near and dear to my heart.

Fantastic car.

I mean, just, you cannot beat a 129 annoyingly.

And I would love to have another one.

So one day that's it.

That's your one car.

And so what do you do when you do?

You don't have friends for the backseat for the rear shelf.

Right.

Well, exactly.

That's my feeling.

You don't have a backseat.

So you can't have friends or children or you need a friend to move the hard top.

So the hard top is on your car because you don't have friends.

Okay.

Perfect.

As long as we're here, you are a Mercedes dickbag with no friends and the wrong SL.

Like the right SL, but the wrong year and you've fucked everything up.

That's fine.

Great.

Okay.

What color is it?

Black over 10.

God, I can't even bitch about that.

All right.

And it's an AMG sport.

SL1.

Okay.

Hot car.

Okay.

In the back quietly lurking.

I have a 991, 911S and just got a Ionic 5N.

Okay.

991, 911S and an Ionic 5N.

Hmm.

Which one makes better noises?

Is it a 991.1 or .2?

.1.

Which one is better steering?

Yeah.

I was going to say something about hydraulic steering.

A new car is nice.

A new car is nice, he says.

What I think you just said was that your Hyundai has better steering than your Porsche does.

Yeah.

So is the, I mean, so is the Hyundai.

Yeah.

The whole car is electric.

In fact, the entire, well, except that it makes gas powered noises.

Electrically.

Do you, do you ever drive it in the, in a like fake gear shift mode?

I do.

He does.

A four cylinder.

It sounds, it's fun.

I haven't.

Wait, they had the choice of emulating any noise and they chose.

Yeah.

Oh, they could have done anything.

Yeah.

So you have a choice of a four cylinder Hyundai engine.

Which is their first fuck up turbo.

That sounds like, well, every modern BMW, you know, with all the shit coming from the speakers.

It's the same wave file that everyone uses.

And then, and you can also make it sound like a spaceship.

Must be open, open space.

The third one is a spaceship.

The second one is like straight cut gear.

So the second one is straight cut gears.

Like a, you know, a big one.

It's actually a great car.

It's an amazing handling car.

And it looks like, well, it's a total team who like rip off to JARO design.

Like it's great looking.

But yeah, I think the biggest problem that I have with that Ionic 5N is that they could have made it sound like anything.

And if you guys have nothing to do tonight and you really want to fall asleep and boredom, watch this week's revelations video where I did an Alpine A110.

And in the, so in 1972 and then in 2021.

And that 1972 is what a four cylinder should sound like.

The driving sequence, we have a really hard time capturing.

It's always difficult to capture the sound of an engine and have it reproduced faithfully on, on video because it's just you either have a microphone at an exhaust pipe and all you hear is the right coming out.

The cars sound more realistic when you're 20 feet away.

They sound better, you know, 20, 50, 100 feet away and in the car.

And then in the car, you have the passenger screaming, first of all.

And then you have all the creaks and rattles.

It's very difficult.

No such problems in that car.

It's one of the most talkative vocal best sounding force on those I've ever heard in my life.

That's what that Ionic 5N should sound like.

It should basically cause trickles of blood to come down to your ears.

The 991, you should hit with the Ionic N.

Total.

And while I don't want to justify insurance fraud, so you're going to have to claim that you did it on purpose and get dropped and, you know, go to jail.

It would be worth it to get rid of that and go buy a real Porsche.

How about that?

Was that rude enough?

He's laughing.

He's also got a knife.

Uh, yeah.

That's, I can't think of circumstances under which I would buy a 991.

That wasn't a VK3.

I think they're beautiful.

Too big.

You bought a 991.

I did.

Yeah.

Did you have a point?

Yeah, you're a fucking hypocrite.

Yes, okay.

Great.

So am I.

I'm also wrong about Apathos.

It's totally fine.

But that's it.

Just another two car solution.

Are they, is there something wrong with them or is there something wrong with us that we were just like, well, 10, 11.

I'm tracking that maybe the average price of the cars is higher here than ours.

We have a lot of shit boxes.

I think we have a shit box habit.

Speak for yourself.

Yeah, we do.

I'm speaking for both of us.

I just spent a lot of money on a Mark III Volkswagen Cabrio.

Yes.

3,000 something dollars.

Yeah.

I think, yeah.

Compared to my $1,300 salvaged title Mercedes, you spent the big bucks.

Yeah, I did.

I did.

Anyway, I think we're learning that in an urban environment, people buy fewer, more expensive cars.

They pay a lot of money to be part of a club.

I understand it's actually the least expensive car club.

They also live in San Francisco.

This fucking place is like outrageously expensive.

I had noticed that.

Yeah.

You had you.

Why do you have shit boxes then?

Because you're paying to live here.

Exactly because we're poor and worthless to society.

Therefore, we'd make no money.

Okay, you, the one with the very guilty smile on the face on the back.

No, I'm sorry.

The button down, or hold on, do you want to guess?

Should we guess?

Yes.

That's all you.

He's got like a watch that looks, I know nothing about watches.

Do you know watches?

No.

All right.

He's got a watch that looks like not a ghetto $18 watch band on an Apple watch.

It's probably a Seiko.

It's probably $7.

It's got to be another Porsche.

I did that.

2017 BMW M2.

That's the more attractive one.

To look at.

There's something you should know about that car.

There's something we should know about that car, says Perlman.

It was the X rental.

X rental car.

Okay.

So tell you a funny story.

When my dad got sick of the Mercedes 6.9 and the 107 SL that I made him buy when I was like just out of college.

He needed, he, both cars kept breaking.

They would talk to each other and break it exactly at the same time.

And so he was like, fuck this, I need a goddamn car.

And so he called me one day and he was like, hey, do you have a car fax membership?

And I said, no, why?

And he's like, well, I just, I'm going to buy another car and I need to, you should run a car fax on it.

I said, what is it?

And he said, it's a Chrysler Sebring convertible, but it's the LXI with the leather.

And I'm like, just.

Isn't that JXI?

JXI.

I'm sorry.

Just.

Allegedly.

Perhaps.

Would everyone like to roast Derek Tamscott right now?

The fact that Derek Tamscott knows the trim levels on a.

I'm so sorry.

Chrysler Sebring convertible.

It might have been a, no, I think his generation was the pretty one, which was the,

I think it might have still been an LXI.

Don't quote me on this.

Was this the first generation?

It was the first generation convertible.

Would you like to bet?

No.

No, I don't.

JXI.

One does not bet against the DTS.

JXI.

So anyway, he tells me this and I'm like, just end it right now.

Like pull the plug, take whatever to kill yourself.

And he was like, no, no, no, it's fine.

I just need something to drive around in.

And I said, why would you spend $35 on a car fax to when the worst thing you could ever

possibly, oh, hold on.

I forgot to say, I'm at enterprise and I'm buying an enterprise car rental.

Chrysler Sebring convertible.

And I was like, dad, $35 to learn that the worst possible thing that could have ever happened

to a car ever is guaranteed.

Save yourself the $35 and put it towards buying a fucking clue and getting a real car.

So I say the same question to you.

Why the fuck, respectfully, would you buy an X rental car when you know that that asshole

probably drove it and did burnouts in it?

It's a track car.

Okay.

So it's already been pre-dumped down a flight of stairs.

Therefore it doesn't matter.

Okay.

It's a hard man.

You don't have a daily.

What does it, what does that mean?

I don't.

Do you like, if a car start a helicopter, like I do, do you take teleports?

Public transportation.

Okay.

Public transportation.

Okay.

Smart man, you probably got it at a discount because he drove it down a flight of stairs.

And that's a hell of a fun track car.

You will drive it down a flight of stairs.

Will you do that on video for us, for the ratings and for the views?

Are you interested?

Do you have any time with that car?

No.

2017, that was just base.

That's before the comp.

Yeah.

That was the one that I would have.

Whatever it is that 034 Motorsport did to theirs, if you haven't done that to yours,

the shifter, they did something to the shifters, like totally fixed what was one of the big

irritations with that car.

You've not spent time with it?

I did.

One of the last videos I did at Motor Trend was that car.

And I kind of went into it bitching about, there was a, the seating positions crooked,

the wheels slightly offset.

And so they, they turned the seat back.

They can't have the seat back to try to fool you to not realize that you're sitting.

You're in board so that the wheels out.

And, and so I went in and I was like, 10 minutes later, I'm drifting the thing around,

everything going, okay, I'll shut up now.

The only problem with that car though was that you can't turn off the auto blip unless

you turn off stability control, right?

Is yours a manual?

Okay.

Cause I was just about to throw this water bottle if you said it wasn't.

Yeah.

Did you fix that?

Are you, did you program that up?

Still on.

Yeah.

That was one of the things is they, it's kind of an auto downshift blip.

And the only way to turn it off is to disable stability control.

And that was done for the right reason.

The engineers were like, we want to control the car.

But to me, that was a double whammy for someone who's not an experienced driver.

Yeah.

Because now all of a sudden, if you, you know, do a sort of high rev downshift without a

blipping throttle, you're dragging the rears is effectively the same thing as pulling the

e-brake.

You're going to go sideways.

Now you don't have stability control to save you from that cliff.

So, yeah, stupid decision on being let me turn, but great car.

Yeah.

It must be a pretty decent car of Jason's looking to such small details to find fault.

That's a pretty big detail.

I genuinely, and no offense to all of you guys.

I'm just, we're all having fun here.

I hope you're, everyone I've beat up so far is smiling.

So I'm good.

You guys are fucked.

Cause it's just going to get worse cause Derek's going to get worse.

But I genuinely would not buy that car unless I could do a software fix on it cause I won't

drive with auto blipping on.

It's like having simulated eating.

Eating.

Okay.

I need to maintain my weight somehow.

By simulating eating.

No, by actually stuffing my face.

Okay.

What's next?

Oh, he's got an accent too.

A lot of cars.

It's got a lot of cars between the UK and has got a lot of cars.

All right.

So this may get you like a get out of jail free card because you freaks buy some weird

stuff that we just don't understand.

And there's a few in there that are going to fix this.

Okay.

BMW 2002.

It's a 73.

Mark one Fiat Panda four by four.

No, no.

Sizzly edition.

Yeah.

That was the limited edition that came in burgundy and dark green and dark blue.

Yes.

Okay.

With the teal accents inside.

Yes.

Canoes.

Okay.

So this is why I didn't argue with him about the JXI versus LXI thing because if he knows

this shit, then obviously he knows what a Chrysler C-bring convertible trim level is.

I would like to point out.

Thank you.

You're pathetic.

Okay.

That's Mark one Renault Espace Quadra.

Mark one Renault Espace Quadra.

So that was four.

This must be what it sounds like when we talk about cars to people who don't know anything

about cars.

It's just a collection of words or sounds that are words.

It has a carbon fiber from factory going which which direction to the front wheels to the

rear.

It's a rear wheel drive because it's four wheel drive.

That's the Quadra.

Quadra.

Oh, four four.

So it's a visco coupling four wheel drive with a carbon fiber drive shaft going to the rear

so that it can distribute all 16 pound feet of torque through a carbon fiber shaft at some

pathetic 4,000 RPM or something.

Yeah.

So apparently I was being generous there.

I'll have to try it.

That is very cool.

I3SO just mute weight.

I'm storing that one.

Three Range Rovers.

What flavors?

Glutton.

P38.

Okay.

So L3222.

P38.

Right.

So all of them.

No, not the classic.

Not the classic.

Not the really bad one.

Is really bad.

Yeah.

P38 is really bad.

In terms of reliability, is worse than the original?

Well, how much of it is original?

So he's replaced every part in the car except for the gearbox, internals.

Piston's original.

Hold on.

Which engine is that one?

Brake caliper pistons.

It's the 4.6 gas.

Is that in the UK or the US?

So how many miles?

199,000 miles.

But none of it has 199,000 miles.

But the interesting thing is that my Rover, which has a 3.5 liter V8, which I stuffed

into the back of a pickup truck so it's not here, is a same basic engine, engine stressed

far less because it was only 3.5 liters versus your 4.6.

And the 4.6 is the ones that, boom.

At 60,000 miles is worn, was worn completely the fuck out.

So you were ready for your second rebuild is what I'm telling you.

It had six replacement engines before you bought it.

How many miles have you put on it?

15,000?

Yeah, it's due for an engine build.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Oh my God, there's more.

That's, okay, so all of those were in the UK.

Okay.

Z4M Roadster.

Okay.

Not Zed.

Oh, thank you for, thank you for pronouncing it correctly.

He's virtualized.

Sheet.

94 XJ Jeep.

And a 2023 Bronco.

Okay.

No notes on the XJ.

No notes on the Bronco.

What engine in the Bronco?

Four cylinder?

It's a four cylinder.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's a two, three.

What was the first car in the U.S.?

It was a Z4.

Z4.

Which generation Z4?

First.

The 85.

Okay.

Yep.

Okay.

There was only one generation of Z4M Roadster, right?

Z4M, yes.

Yeah.

Could be an S drive, 30i or some, a 35i or some other shit, which is the second generation.

Larg.

Which was really pretty.

And the full stop.

Okay.

So let's circle back to that fucking I3.

Why?

I'm really sorry, but what the fuck were you thinking?

Are you thinking?

You love it.

Okay.

He says it's incredible.

I think this is incredible that you think it's incredible.

Tell me why.

I'm sorry.

You feel that way.

All right.

So.

Okay.

There it is.

It's the first electric car.

It's the first electric car he's ever driven.

Okay.

So he just said it's rear drive and the feeling of electric acceleration is the reason you bought it.

I need to leave.

So I just finished recording a revelations episode on BMW i.

So sell your car now because you're about to lose one whole dollar in resale value because this is this was actually really difficult to pull off.

I thought the story of BMW i was really interesting and I wanted to tell it.

And so I got an I3 and an I8.

But I, how do I be nice about this?

I didn't want to borrow an I3 from someone because I was going to shit so bad that we rented one from a rental car place and parked it in the studio.

That was such a great idea, that car, the concept of a city vehicle that was electric and was an amazing idea.

The execution of it did not live up to what I thought BMW should make as a city car.

And so we just did, at the end of every revelations episode I do a back road drive.

It's basically a hill climb.

And I had, this is now more revealing than I planned, I had a mail truck that I did an episode on and an I3 and an I8.

And I chose for my own personal safety and the safety of my director who has young children and who I want to remember him one day when they get older.

I chose not to drive the I3 on the back road but instead to drive the fucking four billion mile mail truck shit box on the back road.

And I don't regret that decision.

So part of the problem for me is that the first I3 I ever drove was a prototype in Germany, I think it was in Germany,

but it was a BMW prototype and they had not yet fully dialed in stability control and they had not added roll mitigation to it.

Every one of us who drove the cars through a cone course got them on two wheels.

They were just absolutely terrifying, scared the shit out of all of us and we all got out of these cars shaking like this is not good.

And of course the Germans come over and they're like, well we have work to do with stability control, like you have work to do with the fucking suspension.

Like no car should be throwing itself on two wheels like this.

And then so I was like, this is great, I'll ask for the pictures.

And so they gave me a thumb drive of all the pictures of this car in the corners and the pictures, there was not a single picture without,

where the car had not all four wheels on the ground, one where it had only three on the ground.

And I'm like, was it my imagination?

Like this car really genuinely terrified me.

And I'm like, what's wrong with me?

And I went into the XF information, the meta information on the file and realized they cut out all of the images where the cars were on two and three wheels

and then renumbered them and handed over and they're like, here you go.

So the production cars have very, very intrusive stability control for that reason.

And once when they first made it to the US, I found one, a friend of mine worked at a BMW dealership and knew a way to turn it off where they could turn it off.

And I almost rolled it in a parking lot.

I mean, it was just one quick turn and the thing went right up and I'm like, okay, never again, never driving one of these cars again.

So unfortunately for me that colored my impression because I know what happens when the computers aren't saving you from those massive grip of those big 155 tires.

But I just, I'm scared of it because I'm scarred, but also the front and rear suspensions don't work together.

And the car has this weird yawing and pitching and you're sitting so high above the wheels and the wheel center line.

That's just, I can't, I can't get comfortable in them.

I'm scared, I'm genuinely scared of them.

No, they're fine in crashes.

They do fine.

The inevitable crash.

Look, no, this looks stability.

Let me, let me, in fairness for a second say, do the same thing in a G-wagon.

Like I did once a, I chased a Viper.

I'm so stupid.

So we did a, we did a comparison test of, is that motor trend?

We did a Viper ACR versus, fuck was it?

I remember Corvette.

I don't remember and a GT3 RS that got totaled by one of the other staffers before we even picked up a camera.

And so we wound up using the G63 AMG or five, might have been a G65.

63 AMG as the, our support vehicle.

And I watched my co-host and one of the other guys just bombed down the road in this Viper and whatever.

And I'm like, I will keep up with you.

And I did.

I never got them out of sight.

And I got to the bottom of the hill and the brakes were literally on fire.

And it was the most fun that I had, but it was one continual role mitigation intervention from, from the computer.

And so there are cars that will roll and a G-Wagon is one of them that immediately will roll over if you do stupid shit like that when you have a lot of grip and a lot of power.

And so I shouldn't be that unfair on the I3.

But I think, so when I did the video of it, I was just a little bit more focused on what the goals were of the car and then what compromises BMW had built into the car to that failed to achieve those goals.

So for example, the doors are, it's got clamshell doors for ease of access to the back seat, which is a great idea.

The problem is, if you're in the back, you, your window doesn't open and you can't get out unless the person in front of you gets out.

So if the person in the driver's seat dies, which happens all the time, like when they're driving I3s, careful, you can't get, you can't just can't get out of the car.

And I just thought, all right, that's just a strange compromise that I don't love when I'm in the back of it.

And then if you have to open both doors when you're parallel parked, not in your stall, in a stall next to someone else, you're trapped in between the doors and you can't get out.

And I thought, okay, well, hold on.

If you're designing the mega city vehicle of the future that does everything better than everything else, why would you build in that particular compromise?

So I'm pretty hard on it.

So like I said, you're going to lose a dollar and resell value of it.

But what you did say that makes a lot of sense is electric.

And so I think a lot of the reasons why people love I3s and there are a lot of people who do is because it's electric.

Electric cars are, and we've said this on the podcast and we've gotten so much hate over it.

They're just a better transportation solution.

And once you get used to that instant effortless acceleration and the ability, and they're quick, that I3 is really quick.

The ability to just cut everyone off in traffic right before you roll over is like the most amazing thing in the world.

So that was harsher than I should be.

I'm sorry.

Sell it.

You want to talk about any of the other cars?

No notes on the XJ.

No notes on...

A lot of Range Rovers.

Are any of them in warranty?

You must be made of money.

He was.

Now he's made of Range Rover parts.

Now he's driving a fucking I3 because he can't...

Right.

No, the other cars are all kind of cool.

Especially for the UK.

I mean, you know, 700 days of rain a year, you need a backup Range Rover to your Range Rover.

They get moist.

You can hear the sound of Alka-Seltzer.

Of rust is like the sound of Alka-Seltzer.

Great.

Lovely.

But how do you fault a Range Rover?

I mean, hello, Mr. How many of you owned Range Rovers?

No, just one.

Did you grow up in one?

I did.

I didn't own it.

Okay, but did you break down?

I do remember spending Christmas Day in a tow truck.

Really?

Yes.

When the Range Rover...

And you wouldn't have that story if it wasn't for your Range Rover.

It's true.

What broke?

It decided it wasn't going to charge anymore.

So...

It's certainly going to charge your mom's credit card.

That's true.

I think it was the alternator or something that had failed.

But anyway, yeah, Christmas Day.

It was a four-hour drive back on a tow truck on Christmas Day.

And was that the last time you ever saw that car?

No, no.

We had it for another at least 15 years.

Oh, my God.

Your mom is far cooler than anyone could conceive.

Okay.

You may have to call the other people out because they're deciding behind me and I'm like...

All right, we'll do this systematically.

Please.

82 Volkswagen Westphalia...

Well, at least you don't have the Vosser Boxer problem.

Westphalia Vanagon.

And let's see.

That's before they were Syncro.

So it's rear-wheel drive.

And Westphalia...

Okay, so it's...

It's a 911.

No, it's...

It's a 911 for quarters.

It's...

It's got a tent on it.

It's...

911 for homeless workers.

Yeah, homeless car, I guess.

You, sir, are unhoused.

A friend of mine just bought a Syncro Vosser Boxer with a Subaru 2.5-liter swap.

And the 2.5-liter is like absolutely gutless in my mom's forester.

And it is such a fire-breathing big block in a Vanagon...

Comparatively.

But compared to the original Vanagon solution...

How many horsepower does your car have?

Sixty.

Sixty horsepower.

So he's not homeless.

He's not homeless because it can't move.

So he has a home.

You have to downshift into second.

I thought you were going to say downshift into first.

35 on the highway and a hill.

Well, but with the vast amount of crash safety and crash protection in that car, you...

Your own ankle bones.

Yeah, exactly.

You don't want to be going faster than 35 miles an hour on the highway.

Cool.

I mean, VW alumni, Unite, I sympathize with here.

It is a design icon.

I learned this from my friend who bought his Vanagon that he...

The Syncros are worth a huge amount of money in the Westies.

And so if you have a Westie Syncro, it's like a pile of money as tall as a 911 to buy one,

which is asinine to me because it's an absolute shitheep.

But it's so like...

Charming.

Charming and unique.

And it's a...

People like box...

Anything shaped like a box is automatically worth more money,

whether that's a Mercedes G or, I don't know, anything that's...

Scion XB.

Thank you for that.

Worth more than...

It's worth more than a loaf of bread.

Worth more than a Scion XA, which was mechanically similar, but...

Not shaped like a box.

I don't know anything about Scion values.

I mean, either.

I'm just guessing.

Or Toyota 4Runner, that's another case where you put a shitheep shaped like a box

and then it becomes worth more money.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Right.

And you?

A bit between cars right now.

He's between cars.

That's your friend who's between jobs right now.

Okay, he's also homeless.

All right.

An M550i.

Okay.

Is that an E60 or an FG?

A G30.

Derek doesn't know what that is because it's after he had already died of old age.

Yeah.

I haven't spent all that much time in those cars.

Fast.

I'm pretty sure I would recognize one if it bit me in the face,

but that's about all I know about the case.

But it won't bite you in the face because it's before the grill.

They didn't do that to the 5 or did they?

Just you wait and see.

The previous 550i was one of the worst resolved suspensions I've ever driven,

but that car, the G series wasn't, they didn't fuck it up that bad.

Okay.

So what are you getting to replace it?

First of all, hold on.

Why did you get rid of it?

Oh, it offed itself.

It caught on fire.

That's an impressive achievement for a modern car.

Yeah, that's really cool.

What burned?

What do you know?

Transmission wiring harness emulated the car.

Okay.

So more, we had a discussion before the cameras were on.

We don't have to roast the car.

It roasted itself.

But we did have a discussion about how you should never buy an automatic ever for any reason.

Like it should just not even be a remote consideration.

And that I will say most manual transmissions do not have wiring harness.

You think reverse light wiring harness could set a car on fire?

Are you fucking working for the prosecution or the defense over here?

Staying.

So an unnamed entity had just done work.

Unnamed entity worked on the car two days before.

Okay.

So somebody fucked his shit up and it caught on fire.

How much did you pay him to do that?

Wow.

Okay.

Well, at least you didn't get hurt.

I mean, if this happened on a bridge.

The pay bridge.

You don't want to, you don't have a car fire on a bridge.

There's nowhere to go.

I mean, that's, that's pretty bad.

That's well, at least you didn't get hurt.

Was it the east or west span, the span with the shoulder or the span without the shoulder?

Oh, no shoulder.

Festive.

Yeah.

And all the wrong way.

This is why you don't drive modern cars.

They just light themselves on fire on bridges with no shoulders.

Unlike old cars with carburetors and never happens.

They don't make it to the bridge.

They break down long before you put yourself.

You can't get into harm's way.

All right.

So what are you replacing it with?

E92.

M3.

92?

90 or 93 or 90?

So there's about to be, so, so the reason he, all right, he's looking for 92 because

of value, but he would do some other ones.

My personal preference is the sedan, so I think they're, they're prettier.

There's one that's about to come up on Hagerty Marketplace that I definitely didn't.

Which of us is a used car salesman here?

One of us is an employee of a company called Hagerty and they will probably appreciate me

mentioning this or shut the fuck up and please tell us about all of the horrible things that

you did to this car.

I didn't do anything horrible to it, but we did track the shit out of it and they are

really genuinely spectacular.

So there's an episode coming up where it's, it's a new show called Retrospective, which

is retro and perspective together.

And we thought we'd let's-

It's also a word by itself.

I'm going to unplug my mic and say some things.

The idea was we were going to go back and look at the classic comparison tests and see

did the magazines get it right back in the day.

And E90 just absolutely decimated everything that it was put up against.

2008 was the one and only year that you could get, you had your choice of three German compact

sports sedans with V8s in them.

So you had the C63 AMG, the Audi RS4 and the M3.

And so we got all three cars together and gave them, we exercised them properly to do

two videos on these two cars to just really see how time has fared on all three of those

cars now with modern perspective.

And then I also wanted to answer the question, is this still the sports sedan benchmark

or has the world moved on?

And so we have a benchmark modern car up against it.

And all I will say is, I can tell you the outcome of that, there's a place in the world

for that car for sure.

And so you should buy the one on Haggerty Marketplace.

Just not the one that I did.

I'm kidding.

The car, it was bulletproof.

It was totally fine.

Hell of a car.

No, they are not in general bulletproof, but this one already had its rod bearings done.

So they probably had 35 other things done.

Yeah, the Audi broke a lot as no one will be surprised to hear.

The Mercedes was completely bulletproof, as Derek will tell you was always the case.

As long as you insert money on a regular basis.

But yeah, very cool car.

Approved.

Major upgrade over the 550.

Yes.

We will help you get your E90 by making fun of your...

That's one of my favorite M3s.

That and the E36.

It's one of my favorite M5s.

I know, it's just too big to be an M3.

It's too V80 and too...

Whatever it has badge on it, I think it's a very cool car.

Put it on a racetrack and it's 100% an M3.

It is the M5 that the E39 should have been.

No offense to the E39 M5.

I 100% agree with that.

No surprise as I...

We'll take every possible opportunity to shit on an E39 M5.

Do you have an E39 M5?

Does anyone here have an E39 M5?

That was another option, but that's...

They're still cool, but they're not as good as...

It's not athletic.

That's my primary complaint.

Okay, good. So I haven't just put my foot in my mouth by

choosing someone next to has an E39 M5.

No, he's got three I3s.

Focus RS.

Focus RS?

I mean...

It's turbocharged and four-wheel drive.

But manual.

It's the spirit of a rally car in some sense,

and rally cars are intrinsically cool.

But you don't have two black eyes,

which tells me you don't have enormous breasts.

The thing is that car rode so hard

that I knocked myself unconscious with my tits

continually on back roads.

That's not actually the case,

but does the ride not get you?

Replace the suspension.

Okay.

So he fixed...

What is really the only problem with that car?

That is a major shortcoming for a car like that,

because I imagine the ideal use case for a car like that

is a bumpy back road that's very tight,

and if the car has too firm suspension

to be ever in contact with the ground on a road like that,

then it's probably pretty terrifying.

Was that your impression of it?

Was that it was too hard to begin with?

He drives like a grandma, but he has a Focus RS.

Okay.

It does ride better, yeah.

So when that car came out, I did...

Wait till he finds out about an S-Class.

What, about how they ride?

About how they ride, and how they work for grandma's.

He said he drives like a grandma.

S-Classes, to focus our S's.

When that car first came out, I was at Motortrend,

and we did a head-to-head episode,

and my co-host, Johnny,

never wanted to do any of the stupid challenges

that I would cook up with, Anthony, our director.

And on that one, we tricked him

into this Backroads challenge,

and it wound up being one of the funniest scenes ever.

So we were up on Stuart's...

What is this word?

Stuart's Point Skaggs brings road,

which is a bumpy road with a bunch of different stages to it, basically.

One end of it is very bumpy.

And so we were at the bumpy end, at the hill climb,

sort of with the big jump.

Were you heading towards the coast or away from the coast?

The jump was heading right before you get to the coast,

and I told Johnny to do, like, 50,

and he blew through there at, like, 70.

And so that car was... I think that made the episode.

I think the car was about 3.5 feet off the ground.

But thanks to the very, very stiff dampers,

the landing was actually okay, because it did control the landing.

The thing when I tricked him was, though,

I said, like, we need to figure out this or Golf R,

which one is faster on a back road,

so we could just race up it,

professional driver close course,

or I can do a stupid challenge.

The challenge was that there was a heart,

like a human heart in ice in the back of the car.

And he remembers this, right?

And so there was a girl who was on a deathbed.

Actually, it was a hooker. It was a dead sex blow-up doll

that came up with.

And so she needed the heart.

And so we had to run up to the top of the hill,

get the heart, put it in the trunk,

and then come back down the hill as fast as you possibly could

in this car.

And Johnny was fucking apoplectic.

I am not doing this. This is so fucking stupid.

And it was genuinely stupid.

Like, we made hearts out of jello and put them in ice

in the coolers that we put in the back,

and then put a camera in there.

So that was the cardio cam, I think we called it.

So he watched the heart get blown apart.

And my theory was that the focus rode so incredibly stiff

that the heart would be obliterated in there.

And I think I drove...

Yeah, I drove the focus down to the bottom of the hill.

And while I was up running, they were videoing him

just going off on this, like, I have a degree.

What am I doing here?

And he just hammed it up for the camera,

and it was genuinely hilarious,

but he was really pissed off at this stupid challenge.

Focus came to the bottom of the hill.

The brakes were actually on major fire.

Major fire.

I don't mean, like, little flames.

I mean, like, hitting the fenders.

I didn't know from the passenger seat.

They still fucking worked.

I mean, I ABSed to a stop right in front of the camera,

and then you hear everyone,

a fire, fire, fire!

And I had to take off to cool him down.

Car was magic.

It was so fast, but it did...

I mean, by the time I got to the bottom,

I couldn't see straight anymore.

It was like, fucking...

Oh, my God.

And the golf was like, bumps?

Say, oh, no, bumps, yeah.

This is not a problem.

But it was also boring by comparison.

So the Focus RS, you know, if you know that very HR-friendly game,

bang, marry, kill, the Focus is the one you definitely bang,

and then you marry a golf.

If you're an old lady, unless you're you.

So...

And you kill the i3, obviously.

That's always the answer.

Always kill the i3.

Cool.

I have a 24 Mazda 3 hatchback.

24 Mazda 3 hatchback stick.

All-wheel drive?

No.

So front-wheel drive.

Super-based no-turbo.

So no turbo, no stick, no all-wheel drive.

Okay.

It was a replacement for a W210 E55.

Replacement for a W210 E55.

Which I had my partner driving, and she was up to here with this.

Okay.

So your partner was driving the 210, and she was up to here with what?

With how amazing it was?

I'm kidding.

The 349 horsepower really not enough for her.

So you got her the Mazda instead.

I still hear it in the songs.

Uh-huh.

Which part of it was she up to here with?

Probably the braking electronics.

The seat that wouldn't move.

Oh, yeah.

So it had a seat that wouldn't move in lots of braking.

Oh, electronics.

Oh, window regulators, yes.

Every fuel tank you need to replace the window regulators also in those cars.

That's true.

Okay.

That Mazda is a great car.

We got it on the car.

Okay.

95 NME Auto.

So I'm detecting a Mazda theme.

I've got four Mazdas.

I've got four of them.

All right.

So you upgraded from an NB to an NA.

That's awesome.

And is it?

Oh, we brought up a 98 Nissan Stadia.

Oh, a 98 Nissan Stadia.

Which is not used for drive-throughs.

Are they all automatics?

This is heavily modified, actually, by a YouTuber.

Don't trust those people.

Heavily modified by a YouTuber.

Whistlin' diesel engines?

Oh, the manual swap.

Rear-wheel drive conversion.

And an RB25.

25 GTC.

2T.

2T or 2Ts.

Okay.

Okay, you win.

That's quite clever.

Yeah, that sounds pretty cool.

That kind of is the coolest car here.

So now we're going to have to shit on you as a person to make up for this.

I mean, he has an automatic car.

Can't you do something with that?

It's not really for him.

For your partner, yes.

The automatic car is for the partner.

That doesn't count.

He may have driven it here.

He could improve his choice in partners.

That's making fun of him as a person.

Yeah, there you go.

He's chosen to consort with somebody who would have an automatic.

I don't know.

Consort?

Is that a word that we use?

Is it me, or is it?

Probably a model of car in some market, also.

It's a Bishi consort.

I thought it was like Ford.

I just heard a squeak come from behind the Rolls-Royce.

A mouse found that funny.

I think it's Ford of Europe.

Ford consort?

Yeah.

Anyway.

That's very, yes, counter-risk.

Okay.

Very cool.

Winner.

You guys might as well go home.

Kidding, we're roasting you next.

Okay.

And?

Daily is a Model 3.

We didn't purchase the Rivian R2.

What was that for?

So, Daily is a Model 3.

Which Model 3?

The dual motor.

The dual motor first gen?

First gen.

Okay.

And you're replacing to...

Rivian R2.

Once it exists.

Okay.

And then weekend is a 9972 GTS.

9972 GTS.

Okay.

How many wheels are driven?

Two.

And does it have a roof?

And how many pedals does it have?

Oh, no.

It's a PDK.

You've done it wrong.

So close.

It has a roof.

It is rear wheel drive.

But it doesn't have three pedals.

Burn it.

I'm sorry.

You have the...

Are you a paraplegic?

Yes, he's missing a left leg.

Okay.

We're trying to help.

Yeah, we're trying to make it better.

That GTS was basically perfect.

In terms of what a 911 should be.

It's very, very civil.

This is an interesting experiment.

The 997 versus the 991.

The 991, the GT3 was so civilized that I don't detect

as big of a difference between the GTS and the GT3.

But the 997 GT3 is so aggressive and race car-y

that if you want to use the car regularly,

then it kind of doesn't make sense

unless your grandma with the Ford Focus RS

who's looking for black eyes,

self-inflicted to be clear.

So large breasted grandma.

Large breasted grandma.

Corpulent grandma with a...

Right.

So the GTS is a very pleasant car,

especially compared to the GT3,

which is really race car-y feeling.

That was one of my impressions.

It's a very well-rounded, usable car.

But still with some personality,

that was kind of lost with...

I'm sorry, on 991.

I'm not going to look at anyone.

But yeah, it was a big difference

between 997 and 991 in terms of experience.

I agree.

991 was better looking, I will say that.

Really?

Too big for you, apparently.

So you bought one.

I wanted to do European delivery.

Could you have picked something else?

That wasn't...

It was a GT3.

I was a GT3 touring.

Yeah.

I can't fault that.

Okay.

At a 2018 Toyota Tacoma TRD 4x4

with a 6-speed...

A manual Toyota Tacoma TRD 2018 4-door.

Did that take you like 600 years to find?

That sounds like a pretty unusual spec.

I got the approval from my wife to buy it,

and I found it the next day.

Wow, found it the next day after getting approval

from wife to buy?

You should buy a lottery ticket.

You should take his wife.

I mean, come on.

And a 600 in 2002.

Alright, so we have a roundie and a rusty

because you're just in the UK, right?

Yeah.

And with square tail lights.

Well, they had...

They were...

Yeah.

Well, rounded edges from all the rust around the tail lights.

Very cool.

I don't have anything to say about the taco.

It's kind of...

Yeah, if you need something like that,

yeah, it will never depreciate,

and it's kind of the most interesting way you could do that.

It's also never going to break.

So where's the fun in that?

Oh, you have it in 2002, so...

Does that break?

Not anymore.

It's been fully rebuilt mechanically,

and nothing is broken.

Can I borrow the keys?

Jason, don't catch that.

I don't want to break your Euro 2.

They're cool cars.

Have you ever driven any E30?

You have.

And so why a 2002?

I'm going to ask you both this question.

Tail lights.

So long.

Sentimental.

Okay, impossible to be rational, therefore.

So I find...

Or an alpha GTV.

Or a Datsun 2000 Roadster.

He likes Toyotas.

Clearly, he doesn't want cars that don't break.

Or that break, excuse me.

So the Datsun...

The Datsun you could pull off.

But they're reliable.

I don't have a ton of 2002 experience,

but the impression that sits with me

is why is this not an Alfa Romeo?

I think that's probably the roastiest thing

I could probably offer you.

Why your 2002?

He was obsessed with him since he was a kid in 1940.

When he was dropped?

That'll go on his head.

I love it.

I ask that only because if I'm trying to roast it,

the biggest criticism that I can levy against in 2002

is that it's not an E30.

And so I just feel like if you start to look underneath the cars,

you see they are so similar, right?

So 2002 to E21 to E30 was a very clear, simple.

Just...

I would hypothesize there's...

Sorry.

Just finish your thought before I...

And it just peaked at E30.

And so I find that a lot of people with 02s

just haven't had much E30 experience.

Have you?

He's never been in one.

And so it's typically about the way it looks

and some sort of memory structure,

which as Derek says, is not a rational thing.

It's not something that we would...

Even I would criticize, right?

We all have the things that we love.

And I love the way they look and I think they're cool,

but I have an E30 because I want a six-cylinder.

But you were saying?

I think a lot of...

I mean, old car enthusiasm generally is driven

by this sort of aesthetic and the vibe.

And if you want the vibe,

especially of a roundie with chrome bumpers

and as far as I can tell, no windshield pillars at all,

then you need an old car.

And it's like I used to have a 68, 9, 12

and it was a shit heap of a car,

but the way that people reacted was so different

from how people react to like an 80s impact bumper car

because it has chrome and four and a half...

Chrome bumpers and four and a half inch wide wheels.

It just looks like an old car and that does

affect people differently.

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Cool.

One victim left.

The car he's in the most...

Frequent Waymo user.

So you know that we...

Is an Audi TT?

Did you not oversteer?

So you have the spoiler on the back

because you didn't oversteer into a wall on the way there.

Is it first gen? Which generation is it?

The third. Is that the final?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So you know we did...

Because you couldn't afford a Veyron,

but you wanted something that looked the same.

Maybe he could afford...

Maybe he could afford a Veyron. How do you know that?

Well, maybe the tire bill.

The tire bill.

You know that we did an episode in a Waymo,

which was really fun to torture him

because I had said something nice about a Waymo

and he was like,

the things you said...

Derek Off Camera is very much...

uses words that I use on camera.

That fucking thing, the fucking electric cars,

that fucking self-driving who was berserk

and I'm like, oh really?

We're going to go do a podcast in one.

They are kind of the best.

That is the Megacity transportation vehicle of the future.

Is anything that's driving itself

where you can get these...

Not for us, right?

And we, you know,

all of us want to drive our old chip boxes.

But for the regular person in a Subaru,

thank God no Subaru is in this room,

get them the fuck off the road and out of our way

and have a computer drive

so they're not lane-changing into your classic old car.

So congratulations on being a member of the future.

And then why did you buy a TT?

Partner liked it.

Another one shifting the blame.

They're great...

I mean, it's a golf.

It's fun, he says.

Which engine do you have?

The two-liter.

They are fun.

They're golf, right?

I mean, so I'd be a complete hypocrite

if I said anything bad about their cars.

Yeah, but it doesn't have backdoors or hatchback

and so it's less useful than the golf.

He has fit four people.

Were they alive and membered

as opposed to dismembered?

You had to cut them into small pieces.

No, it's a golf and half of its aluminum,

which is pretty cool.

They made the front half of that car out of aluminum

to help the weight distribution,

which was a great idea.

Lord knows they need it.

Didn't help the handling,

but it...

I would like one with a five-cylinder.

Yeah, that'd be very cool.

Look, TTs are like, you know,

they're hard to criticize in one sense,

which is that you want the practicality

and build quality of a VW product,

but you're willing to sacrifice some of that usability.

Practicality, I mean, in sort of the engineering terms,

you want to...

You're willing to sacrifice real-world practicality for looks,

and it's like somebody showing up in shoes that are nice

as opposed to sneakers that you can run up

or boots that you can...

My thought on that is you could also buy a Porsche.

Then you're a Porsche dick.

Sorry for those people.

You, especially with the turbo, I mean...

No, I think there's something...

I think it's sad that the sports coupe,

sporty coupe market is gone, actually,

and I have a Scirocco parked outside,

so obviously I should not have a problem with it

with the virtual grandchild of that car, right?

It's a 2 plus 2 sporty coupe based on a Golf.

Sometimes it's cool to look different

and not have a Porsche and not be about, you know, handling.

Or driving dynamics or engine sound.

Something out of this is never done, but it's fine.

No, it's got a sound actor.

It does the...

It vibrates the dashboard.

Erg.

Yeah.

Okay.

Anyone else?

Any other victims wishing to participate?

Oh, yeah.

We have two in the back hiding.

You're not safe.

I have a small list of cars, none of which are in San Francisco.

I recently moved, but I have an 84 W126.

84 W126.

A 380 SE with a body kit.

With an AMG body kit on it.

Is that a US market car?

Yeah, US market.

How does it feel having the thrill of 155 horsepower in an S-class?

And drove it actually.

I bought it in Liverpool, Nova Scotia

and drove it to Montreal, right?

Legend, he bought it in Canada in Liverpool, Nova Scotia

and drove it back.

Legend has it he's still driving because the thing is so slow.

Well, but hold on.

We can't make it fun of him for that being fast

when he's got the slowest car on planet Earth.

Yes, that's true.

You're having a slow off.

Okay.

No, 95, 540 automatic BMW.

94, 540.

Yeah.

How's your Nicosil?

That's what she said.

Still surviving.

98 LX with the rear diff locker.

98 LX.

Lexus LX 470.

That's the first year with the locker.

99 W140 S420, beige on beige.

140 S420, beige on beige.

Like tan on tan.

Smoke silver on parchment.

04 E500, 4Matic.

You're speaking Derek's language here.

4, 325i, slick top manual.

04, 325i, slick top manual.

This is 46.

5, 330, is EHP convertible?

Oh, is EHP convertible?

Is it an automatic?

It's convertible.

It's automatic, okay.

Okay.

I have an 08 M5.

08 M5.

Oh, you're...

E60 M5.

Wow.

12 Cayenne turbo.

He has 12 Cayenne turbos.

He has 12 of them.

Or one that is a 12.

And a 22 Volvo S60.

Which powertrain?

T5.

Or his 81 year old mother.

That's okay.

See, put her in that Focus RS,

and I'm just saying...

Okay.

That's a lot.

That's a lot of cars.

We say, you know, ha ha ha,

having too many...

You went in chronological order also.

Yeah, he did.

That's how I have to do my cars.

People are like, name your...

You got to do it by model year,

because otherwise it's like,

wait, hold on,

I know there's three more

that I forgot, which is...

And I have one rule in my collection

that I always have to have

at least one more BMW than Mercedes.

So he's got a rule in his collection.

One more BMW than Mercedes.

That's interesting.

Why is that?

Okay, so he's a BMW guy.

Sounds like you might be

a BMW and Mercedes guy.

But if you have to choose one,

he chose BMW.

Okay.

Four BMWs, three Mercedes,

two French horns,

and a Partridge and a Pair Tray or something.

You want to roast one of them?

I kind of did with the 380 SE already.

You did, yeah.

I'll just roast the ZHP and say,

please, for the love of God,

manual swap that car.

They're so good.

And put a roof on it.

Yeah.

Actually, just burn it.

We got a guy.

He'll do some transmission work on it.

Touch those two wires together,

just barely get some nice sparking and poop.

Here he works on BMWs.

And if you have it insured properly,

you'll get the right one.

Yeah.

Then you can get the sedan manual

that you deserve.

You know what's amazing to me

is every time I drive a ZHP,

even if I drive an automatic,

I think the world peaked here.

Like that.

He agrees, obviously.

You'd be on the view whore.

But yeah, like I just,

the steering alone on that car,

I will make it 15 feet and go,

that's it, we're done.

Like E90 was in some ways

a lot better car than E46 was.

But it was ugly.

Sorry.

And he agrees.

Okay.

So the E90 shopper agrees

that the E90 is ugly,

but E46 was just such a magical experience.

And ZHP, quicker steering,

just all those little changes

turned it into the perfect steering.

It is the essence of BMWness.

When BMW was...

Ultimate driving machine distilled.

Annoyingly.

We'll never have a nice thing again.

Which of course includes the i3.

You know, the 100...

Just leave that one.

I mean, you have 175s on the front

of your car, right?

So it's an S, yeah.

So you got the big tires.

So the factory,

the original was 155 section fronts.

You can absolutely just pick that tire up.

Yeah, they are,

do you know that that tire is an inch?

I think it's a full inch,

more than an inch narrower than the rear tires

on BMW's motorcycles.

Yeah.

You do have four of them.

And the rears are big

and you have an S,

so it does have the big tires.

But now you have no range, so...

Sorry about that.

Yeah.

Okay, there's one more gentleman

hiding in the back.

He's waving.

Let's see.

Every time I come in here,

I'm reminded by that car

of the 124 Fiat that I bought

after three Mazda Miata's

and the Mazda RX8.

You went backwards.

He went backwards from three Miata's

to an RX8 to a Fiat 124.

Oh, this must be the new Fiat 124.

Okay.

That's okay,

because you just confessed to me

that you just...

I bought the old Fiat 124.

Let's do a crash test between them

or like a pull off or something.

Come on.

Tractor pull.

Whatever they do with pickup trucks

that are diesel.

So why a 124 and not the Miata?

Well, Miata did most of the work on it

and Fiat did the cosmetics.

Cosmetics by Fiat.

We have to repeat what we were saying

because we didn't mic you,

but did you say you had five of them?

Over time.

He said five of them

and nothing is ever broken,

which is kind of surprising

because the engine in that car,

so Mazda, obviously it's a Mazda underneath,

but the engine is a Fiat engine in that car

and what he loved about it

is that at the dealership,

everyone drove Mazda's,

which you're driving a Fiat.

No, listen,

Mazda is one of those brands

that right now is killing it,

makes amazing products

and they're somehow not on anyone's radar.

Every one of the cars they make

with the possible exception of the Miata

is beautiful, including the three

and somehow they're not on anyone's shopping list.

Like a CX-50 is stunning.

Yeah, you're right.

Not a lot of prestige,

except that you park a Mazda CX-50

or a CX-90 or any of these cars

next to a BMW or a Mercedes

and they all hold their way.

Let alone the Toyota or Honda

that he would be cross-shopping it with.

But I don't understand why more people

don't buy Mazdas instead of Hondas and Toyotas.

That baffles me.

Yeah, I'm very torn on the Miata

versus Fiat thing

and I was since they came out.

I personally don't think the Miata's pretty

and I didn't love personally the way the Fiat looked,

but to me it wasn't,

you're not buying that car really for the looks anyway.

The Fiatta did so many things better

than the Miata did.

It rode better and it steered better

and it handled better,

but then I really liked the naturally aspirated motor

and the Miata better.

And then when we did this comparison test back

when that car was new,

we brought in an NC Miata

and then that did a couple things better

and I thought, Jesus Christ,

if you could combine different aspects

of every one of these cars,

you would have the best sports car ever made,

but each one of them are close.

Now Derek's going to roast you because I can't

because I've said nice things.

I don't know.

I got nothing.

Damn it.

All right, so we have another winner.

We said nothing to say.

You drive a car that is not genuinely

what it says it is on the box.

There it is.

You are a fraud.

You should be embarrassed

and you should put a license plate on it

that I've been had by a master dealer.

I'm kidding.

Very cool.

I think this was fun.

I hope you guys had fun.

I enjoyed letting out what the inner dialogue

and then trying to encourage Derek to be.

I'm usually pretty well-behaved,

but you bring out the worst in me.

Thank you.

When the cameras are rolling, you're well-behaved.

So there's a very different Derek.

When he's behind the wheel of a car

and no one knows it's him, for example,

there's a stream of consciousness,

narration going on about,

what's your favorite word, shit stain,

is what you call it?

That's a good one.

Inbred is also useful.

I use Inbred a lot.

Inbred shit stain.

Combine them.

I like particularly the shit stain

because you're not even rising to the level

of being the actual shit.

It's just the stain left behind.

You're less than shit.

Anyway, on that bombshell,

I think it's time for the news.

There's going to be...

I think there's going to be a bomb going off

when people hear this episode.

Right.

Okay.

Well, thank you guys all for coming,

and more importantly, thank you for inviting us

to your club so we could shit all over it

or leave shit stains on these chairs.

And if everyone at home joins us next week,

if we're invited back to Plenitor...

To continue the car margin show or not.

Yes.

Right.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Okay, we're out.

Oh, my God.

This is...

Do you hear that?

They're all applauding for us

after we shit on their cars.

Maybe it's to drown out the sound of our talking.

That's true.

Yeah, thank you guys.

We Roast Member's Cars, Live at The Motoring Club — Carmudgeon w/ Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 210

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