The Ford Fiesta is a small car, and the Fiesta ST is a sportier version. The podcast talks about autocross, where small cars can do well because they’re quick to change direction. It’s mentioned because it can be a strong performer in that kind of driving.
Autocross is a timed driving event on a closed lot with cones. You drive a twisting course to see how well the car handles and how quickly you can steer and accelerate through it.
The BMW Z4 is a sporty two-seat roadster from BMW. Here, the speaker says they recently tried it in an Autocross event, which is a timed driving course that tests handling.
This is about cars that get a lot of hype and are treated like legends, but might not be as great as people claim. The hosts are basically asking which famous cars don’t actually impress when you drive them.
The Ferrari SF90 is a high-tech Ferrari supercar that uses a hybrid setup (gas plus electric). It’s known for being incredibly powerful, so it stands out when someone says it feels boring.
The Mercedes SLR McLaren is a rare, expensive supercar made with help from McLaren. It’s known for its dramatic doors that open upward, and the host is saying it’s a bad one.
“Flip doors” are doors that open upward in a scissor-like motion instead of opening normally. They’re part of the car’s design and can make the car feel more dramatic to get into.
A “slush box” is an automatic transmission that feels kind of lazy. Instead of snapping into the right gear quickly, it tends to feel smooth but not very responsive when you press the gas.
When a transmission overheats, it means it got too hot from hard use. On an automatic, that heat can build up in the fluid and can cause the car to shift worse or even get damaged if it keeps happening.
Irwindale is a racing track in California. It’s known for drag racing, which means lots of hard acceleration—exactly the kind of driving that can overwork a transmission.
Car
AMG GT3 cars
The AMG GT3 is a Mercedes-AMG race car version built for track competition. The speaker is saying that even these race cars don’t sound great, describing the V8 sound as kind of dull or “boat-like.”
The Mercedes-Benz C63 is a sporty, high-performance Mercedes. Here, they’re talking about whether it sounds good and whether it’s as satisfying as a BMW M3.
The Mercedes-Benz CLK is a Mercedes performance car line. The podcast mentions the CLK DTM, which is a version connected to racing. It’s brought up because it’s not just a normal CLK—it has a motorsport background.
The BMW 3 Series is a luxury car that’s meant to be comfortable for daily driving but still fun to drive. The podcast mentions it because the performance version (the M3) from that generation was a major benchmark. People often talk about it when comparing sporty BMWs from that time.
A gearbox is what lets the engine spin at the right speed while you drive. They’re saying the BMW’s gearbox feels better than the Mercedes’ in their comparison.
Burnouts are when you spin the tires on purpose to make smoke and heat the rubber. They’re saying the Mercedes is good at that, even if they don’t like much else about it.
“235s” refers to tire width: the tire is about 235 millimeters wide. Wider tires can grip more, but the speaker is saying you don’t necessarily need to go wider in the back.
BMW uses codes like E63 to identify car generations. This one is the 6 Series generation, and the speaker is basically saying it’s better for rowdy, chaotic driving than for serious performance bragging.
“Hooligan’s car” is slang for a car that’s fun to drive in a reckless, playful way. The speaker is basically saying one BMW is better for that kind of chaos than the other.
Term
doors that do this
They’re talking about the SLR’s special door style. Instead of opening like normal doors, they move upward in a distinctive way, which makes the car stand out.
They’re saying the car is worth more later than it is now. Some people use that as proof it’s special, even if others think it’s not actually that great to drive.
They mean the Ferrari SF90 Stradale. It’s a high-end Ferrari that uses a hybrid setup, so it can use electricity along with the gas engine for extra punch.
They’re talking about how the Ferrari SF90 got dramatically cheaper very quickly. When that happens, it can suggest the car wasn’t worth the hype price people were paying.
They mean the car got much more expensive quickly. That kind of jump often happens when lots of people want it at the same time, and then prices can fall later.
“On the flip” means buying a car mainly to sell it again soon. They’re saying that in 2022, the market didn’t pay enough when it was time to resell, so the buyer ended up losing money.
Bentley is a luxury car brand. The speaker is saying the SF90 feels more like what people expect from a Bentley (luxury/traffic use) than what people expect from a Ferrari (driver-focused excitement).
A quarter mile is a straight-line race distance used to see which car accelerates faster. They’re using it to compare how quickly the 296 and SF90 can get going.
A “finicky” hybrid system means it can behave in a less predictable or less seamless way—such as how and when the car switches between electric and gas power. The hosts connect this to Ferrari’s reputation for complex powertrain behavior, implying the SF90’s hybrid operation may not feel effortless.
The Ferrari 296 is a newer Ferrari supercar. The speaker is saying it drives more like what you’d want from a Ferrari—especially in cornering—than the alternative they’re talking about.
The Ferrari F8 is a mid-engine Ferrari supercar. The hosts are comparing how it feels to drive—especially how it handles in turns—versus another Ferrari they think is disappointing.
Electric range is the distance a plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle can travel using only its electric power before it needs to switch to another energy source or recharge. The speaker criticizes the idea of spending a very large amount on a Ferrari while still being concerned about driving it in an “electric” way.
The Lamborghini MC20 is a modern supercar from Lamborghini. The podcast groups it with other newer supercars when talking about how today’s cars are different. It’s mentioned because it’s part of Lamborghini’s newer lineup.
Car
MC 20
The Lamborghini MC 20 is a modern Lamborghini supercar. It’s built to be fast and exciting, but the speaker’s point here is that newer supercars can start to feel kind of interchangeable.
They’re basically saying that some modern supercars all feel the same. Even though they’re fast and smooth, they don’t give you a unique “character” or special feel.
The Bugatti Veyron is a famous ultra-expensive supercar/hypercar. People bring it up because it was among the first cars that could go insanely fast in everyday production form.
A “hypercar” is basically the most extreme kind of supercar. Think huge power, cutting-edge tech, and often very limited availability.
Car
Ferrari
Ferrari is a famous Italian car brand that makes some of the most exciting high-performance cars. The hosts are basically debating whether Ferrari is still meeting what people want today.
An electric car runs mainly on electricity stored in a battery. The hosts are saying it takes years of planning and development, so it’s not something companies can decide to do overnight.
“Pull the ripcord” is a figure of speech meaning “make a quick emergency decision.” In this context, it means they didn’t abruptly stop or change course on the EV plan.
The Ferrari SF 90 is a supercar that uses both gas power and electric power. The point here is that it’s the kind of car people buy as an extra—alongside a daily driver—not as their only car.
A “third or fourth car” means people own more than one car, each for a different purpose. The idea here is that a supercar like the SF 90 is usually an extra car, not the only one you drive every day.
The Cayenne is Porsche’s SUV. The point here is that it’s a successful “daily driver” option that keeps the brand’s customers happy beyond just sports cars.
The Urus is Lamborghini’s SUV. The host is using it as an example of how people can get the Lamborghini lifestyle while still driving something practical every day.
The RS Q8 is a fast, sporty Audi SUV. In this segment, it’s brought up as the better-looking option if you want that exotic vibe but don’t want the Lamborghini.
A “platform” is the main underlying structure a car is built on. “Sharing a platform” means different cars use the same basic design to save money and speed up development. The speaker is saying Ferrari doesn’t do that, which puts them at a disadvantage when competing on new tech.
Volkswagen and Audi are part of the same big corporate group. When brands are in the same group, they can share engineering and technology. The host is arguing that Lamborghini benefits from that shared development, while Ferrari doesn’t have the same advantage.
Concept
mobbing canyons
“Mobbing canyons” means driving hard and fast through twisty mountain roads. The host is saying the DeLorean isn’t good at that kind of aggressive driving.
Concept
bumper to bumper traffic
“Bumper-to-bumper traffic” describes stop-and-go driving where you’re constantly accelerating and braking at low speeds. The host uses it to argue the DeLorean is unpleasant in real commuting conditions, not just on track or open roads.
The Kia Stinger is a Kia that’s designed to feel more sporty than a typical family car. The podcast talks about a Stinger GT and how people can modify them. It’s mentioned because it can be turned into a more performance-focused project.
Coilovers are suspension parts that let you adjust how the car rides and handles. They’re often used on project cars because you can fine-tune the car’s stance and grip.
A corner balance is a way to set up the car so each wheel is supporting the car in the right way. It helps the car handle more evenly instead of feeling lopsided or unpredictable.
Term
X chassis
An “X chassis” is the car’s frame/structure design. They’re saying that particular chassis layout makes the project more difficult and can lead to weird behavior even after lots of upgrades.
Term
plastic parts
Plastic parts are the non-metal pieces on the car—covers, trim, and other small components. On older cars, they can break or wear out, and replacements can be expensive or hard to find.
Term
ash trade
They’re talking about small interior parts that are annoying to fix. Even if the problem is tiny, you may have to take things apart, which makes it costly.
That’s the little cover/grille over a speaker in the dashboard. If it’s rusted or damaged, fixing it can mean taking apart the dash, which is a big hassle.
The DeLorean is a famous sports car, especially because of the movie Back to the Future. People love the look and the story, but owning one can be surprisingly costly to fix and maintain.
A “72 Nova” is a 1972 Chevrolet Nova, an older American car from the muscle-car era. The host is saying it was a car people found cool and it got noticed.
Oil temp just means how warm the engine oil is. When it’s cold, the car can feel rough or clunky until the oil heats up and starts working the way it should.
The Subaru 360 is a very small older car. The podcast says it can feel rough or clunky when it’s cold. It’s mentioned because older tiny cars don’t drive like modern cars.
Gordon Murray is a famous car and race-car designer. Here, the hosts are saying that if he dislikes a car, that’s a strong sign it may not be as great as people think.
The Acura NSX is a famous high-performance sports car that’s known for being well-engineered and fun to drive. In this segment, they’re saying it didn’t live up to the hype for one of the hosts.
The Lamborghini Revuelto is a newer Lamborghini supercar. The podcast describes it as a modern V12 car. It’s mentioned because it’s a recent model that stands out to enthusiasts.
This means an older Chevrolet Camaro generation. The hosts are talking about one that had low miles when it was traded in, and they’re discussing how it can be improved to drive more like a modern car.
A trade-in is when you give your current car to the dealer and it counts toward the price of the next car. They’re talking about the Camaro being traded in and what the dealer offered for it.
The Volkswagen Golf is a compact car that many people use every day. The podcast mentions it as a reliable daily while someone was working on a different car. It’s brought up because it’s practical and easy to use.
Detroit Speed makes aftermarket parts, especially for improving suspension and handling. The point in this segment is that you can buy upgrades to make an older Camaro drive much better.
Car
LT4 motor
The LT4 is a Chevrolet small-block V8 engine family (commonly associated with the Corvette Z06 era), known for being a high-output, modern pushrod V8. The speaker suggests swapping an LT4 into a third-gen Camaro as a way to dramatically increase performance, but notes it quickly becomes a very expensive “pro touring” build.
“Pro touring” is when people take an older car and upgrade it so it handles and drives more like a modern sports car. The speaker is saying the cost can get huge once you start doing real upgrades.
Rack-and-pinion steering is a steering setup that turns the wheels using a gear and a bar. The host is saying upgrading to this can make an older Camaro feel more accurate and easier to drive.
This is a type of front suspension that uses two arms to control how the front wheels move. Upgrading to it can improve handling and steering response on an older car.
The AMC Javelin is an older American muscle car. The podcast talks about seeing one in real life and being excited about it. It’s mentioned because it’s a notable classic that not everyone sees often.
“Air-cooled” means the engine is cooled by air flowing over it, not by coolant in a radiator. It can change how the car feels and how it behaves compared to liquid-cooled engines.
“Third gear” is one of the gear positions in the transmission. Mentioning it usually means the speaker is describing how the car felt at a particular speed and engine RPM range.
The Honda NSX is a mid-engine sports car that’s famous for being smooth and easy to live with for a car in the supercar world. They’re arguing about whether it’s great for long road trips or whether it feels worse in twisty canyon driving because of how the brakes and steering behave.
They’re talking about the car’s brakes and how they feel when you’re driving hard in twisty roads. The complaint is that the braking behavior in the canyons isn’t good.
Steering ratio is basically how “quick” the car’s steering is. It tells you how much you have to turn the wheel to make the tires turn, and it affects whether the car feels easy or twitchy to drive.
“Mileage prison” is a joking way to say people get obsessed with the odometer number. The point is that a higher-mile car can still be fun, even if it’s worth less to some buyers.
The timing belt is a belt inside the engine that keeps the engine’s moving parts working in sync. If it’s due for replacement, changing it on schedule helps avoid major engine damage.
The water pump moves coolant through the engine to keep it from overheating. It’s commonly replaced when doing big timing-related work because it’s easier to do while everything is already apart.
“Engine out” means the mechanic takes the engine out of the car to do work that’s hard to reach. It usually costs more, but it lets them replace parts properly.
“Speedo” is just the speedometer. If it stops working, the car may have a problem with the sensor or the wiring that tells the gauge how fast you’re going.
Carfax is a report that tracks a car’s history from records. People use it to see things like reported mileage and ownership events to spot inconsistencies.
“Smogged” means the car had to pass an emissions test. In this story, the emissions paperwork keeps happening, but the car isn’t actually being driven much, which raises suspicion.
Here, “fraud” means someone is tricking you about the car’s real mileage. The idea is that the records and the car’s condition don’t line up because the readings were manipulated.
The Porsche 718 Spider is a Porsche sports car you can drive with the top down. They’re arguing about whether driving it “costs” you much money, and they also talk about how it fits different drivers.
The Ferrari 328 is an older Ferrari with a V8 engine in the middle of the car. The hosts mention it to compare it with other “special” cars they’ve owned.
The Porsche Boxster is a Porsche roadster, meaning it’s a smaller sports car with an open-top style. The podcast mentions it because the speaker feels it’s enjoyable to drive and not as expensive to rack up miles on. It’s brought up as a practical choice for fun driving.
LIVE
And we're back with another episode of Firing Order.
As always, I'm your host, Brian Scotto.
This is the kickoff of season four,
and our topic today, overhyped hero cars.
That's right, cars that once you meet,
might not be so great.
And to debate this, we have none other than Matt Farah
and our now reoccurring guest, Vin and Natra.
We get into it, we all have very different lists.
This is a fun one, enjoy.
["Careeless Dan taken
just looking at it, judgingly.
I know, we got a real podcast professionally.
This is our first real, real podcaster.
He's got like podcast chairs.
He's got like a podcast desk.
He's got, he's got sound deadening.
He has air conditioning in his studio.
Episode 1200.
I was gonna say, Matt has been doing podcasts
since literally every Jamoc has a podcast now.
Yeah, I know.
When did you start?
What year?
2010.
Wow, podcasting in 2019 or YouTube?
No, YouTube is 06.
Oh, that's right.
Your YouTube story is insane.
Bro, my YouTube is an OG YouTuber.
My first YouTube videos are in 240p and shot on cassette.
And not monetized.
And pre-monetized.
That was the MCA.
You cannot file a takedown for my use of Pearl Jam.
I'm in that video.
Still there.
Wait, is that grandfathered in?
Yeah.
It's pre-digital music copyright act.
I was using Stone Devil Pilots and Pearl Jam.
But that was when YouTube was great, man.
That was what YouTube was a different world
when you could just steal other people's music.
240p life.
Because that was also when most of what other YouTube was
was people just pirating everything.
It was just uploading all the things
that were not available on YouTube.
Yeah, it was great.
Wild.
Yeah, early, early YouTube.
You know me and him go back that long.
Past that.
No, essentially to that point.
To that point.
Because you were running, or I don't actually know
what you were doing, but GPNY, which was the carding track.
The carding track.
I don't know if you ran it.
I just knew that for a larger-sized man,
you were like, it didn't make sense how fast you were.
OK, here's why.
And I'll give you that.
Because we would show up and I'd be like, look at this dude.
And then he would whoop us.
And I'd be like, oh boy.
Yeah, so I was the fastest fat guy in there.
So Grand Prix New York opens.
It's the best go-kart track in the area.
I used to go there to have place rules.
It's amazing, right?
So Nat Mundy, who started it, hired me
to make a TV commercial for them in the first month
I was making YouTube videos.
And we made it.
Me and Tom and Ed aired.
And in exchange for getting, instead of getting paid,
he traded Lifetime Unlimited carding.
Yo, that's sick.
And so I started showing up.
Does it still exist?
Yes.
I started showing up every day after work.
I didn't travel like I do now.
How far were you from there?
10 minutes.
Oh, insane.
Yeah, I would do that too.
I lived in Harrison.
It was right at the road.
Every day, two to three hours of carding a day after work.
And then they started a carding league.
And I won the over 200 pound class by like Schumacher level
gapping people.
And I was also the heaviest.
And so they had to weigh everyone up to me.
And then I destroyed everybody.
No way.
It was so funny.
I love that.
I love that.
You were like, you thought you were getting a good deal?
I am decimating this.
I started dating the bartender at that place
because I would have dinner there like every night.
It was crazy.
The amount of free carding I took out at that place.
That's how I know you.
You were like the GPNY guy.
I remember like when one of the first drive shows you did.
Was it Fahrenheit?
Was that which show?
Garage 40.
Garage 40.
And that's it.
And I remember when you first did that, I'm like,
oh, it's the carding guy from GPNY.
My arms were like the rock from just like, just constant.
It was great.
Good time.
Shout out to GPNY.
It's still there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Good days.
Good days.
All right.
Just to let you guys know Matt hasn't lost it.
We did an event.
Although what he has lost is weak.
Look at that.
Why are now that I was weak?
I would definitely not want to go up against him.
Matt smoked all of us, including Hamster Hands,
Ron Zaris at Autocross.
Oh yeah.
And where may I launch at?
Oh, at the Honda.
At Laguna.
Yeah.
Matt smoked us all at Autocross.
I technically I said to Ron, if I beat you with this,
I'm taking your seat at Pike's Peak.
They didn't give it up.
And Ron can't say that he's not that good at Autocross
because he was like the cone king of Long Island New Jersey.
He's good to press launch Autocross is a specialty.
We talk about this all the time.
I smoked Ken at Autocross for the Fiesta ST.
And he was mad.
I was like, if you don't understand, because at this point
I was only like six months removed from being an auto
journalist.
I was like, my entire life is driving such wack cars.
Like caliber SRT fours at speed in a parking lot around cones.
Like this is my wheelhouse.
This is my WRC.
Bro, I did Autocross in a rented BMW Z4 like three days ago.
Sick.
Did you like tour it?
Put up numbers.
Enterprise.
Enterprise dream collection.
Oh, wow.
Amazing.
So what are we doing today, Brian?
All right.
So episode of firing order.
And we are going to list, I guess you would say
probably the most overhyped hero cars or at least the ones
we've had experience in.
So these are cars like poster cars.
These are cars that people just wax on about, about how great
they are.
And we've driven a lot of those.
And it's like, what are the ones that maybe just don't really
belong on the list?
I'm so excited for this.
Yeah.
Shitting on stuff is fun.
My favorite.
Shitting on popular things is you two gold.
Do you know this?
Yeah.
And not just that, but I wanted to bring you two on because I've
had the conversation with you a lot, which is like this car just
isn't as good as we remember it being or as people make it out
to be.
And you just generally are good at shitting on things.
So I figured this would be a good combination.
You've also driven probably a lot of things.
Way more cars than we have at this point.
So many things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've driven a lot at this point.
So let's show.
Yeah.
We got to get into I'm so excited to hear Matt's list.
I got to get into it.
The way it's going to work is you're going to have your three.
We'll take one from yours.
You're three, my three.
And then we're going to go into the greater list.
Let's get it.
This one, personal experience.
Folks our age will probably get it more than the younger folks,
but the DeLorean.
Yes.
It's an obvious one, but it's an obvious one for a reason.
The Ferrari SF90, which I consider
to be the most boring 1,000 horsepower car I've ever driven.
That is such a wild statement.
And the worst supercar of all time, the Mercedes SLR McLaren.
Nice lineup.
Good lineup.
That is an awful car.
Strunk.
Just so we're clear, the SLR McLaren is that really,
like looks like a really long nose.
Yeah, it's bad.
With the flip doors.
I've actually driven that, so I can speak on that too.
What engines is that?
Is that the 6,2?
It's a supercharged.
6,2, 6,2?
Five and a half.
OK.
Five and a half supercharged, and I think it's 617 horsepower.
The engine isn't the problem.
No, it's this slush box automatic transmission
that belongs in like a truck.
And the mushiest brakes ever, and the cassette deck,
and just everything.
Everything else.
I was, for the most random of reasons,
I had it at Irwindale, and was doing drag runs with it,
and overheated the transmission forward.
This might be unpopular opinion, but I also
think no Mercedes from that era sounds good.
They all are like farty V8s.
The SLR with the side pipes is particularly farty.
It's just like when you're hearing from the side,
it's very farty.
Even the AMG GT3 cars, the race cars, sound bad.
They just have this real boat V8 noise.
They just sound like they're revving to like 3,600 max,
and they just like, they don't sound good.
But then at the same time, you do have the C63.
Doesn't sound good.
I think the C63 sounds good.
I think 63 engine sounds good.
How about the CLK DTM?
That's not a real car.
That's the same 5 and 1 half.
But you could buy that.
Could you?
Yeah.
So I don't really like the way the C63 sounds either.
I think it's just a very barky generic V8.
It's one of those cars that you have that car,
and the E90 M3 going neck and neck,
and nobody cares about the C63 for obvious reasons.
It just kind of sucks.
Sound wise?
I think the sound of the M3 is better.
And the gearbox is better.
Everything.
The Mercedes has like one good redeeming quality,
which is that.
It does burnouts.
Yeah, that's a good burnout.
It does burnouts because Mercedes cheaped out
and put a wide body front end, and then it was just like,
we don't need to do the rear.
Enjoy your 235s on the back.
That's true.
You know?
That's true.
That car to me is just as whatever as it gets.
Like you got it because you were like,
I don't want a BMW because I'm not a BMW guy,
then you get some lesser junk.
I don't think it's for like,
I don't think you could shop the two of those cars
in its era because the M3 was just a better performance car.
The E63 is a better like Hooligan's car.
Like it's good for shitheads.
For the record, I brought up a specific making model of car,
and you guys have just generalized across.
Not just that engine in other cars, but like the whole range
of models that this company has.
So you haven't listened to this show.
So, all right.
We don't know.
Remember you said you don't know about anything?
I didn't.
You're dealing with real idiots here.
OK.
I was thinking.
All right, pal.
Make your argument on the long dick SLR.
On why it's overrated?
Yeah.
OK.
It's my argument.
But do you think it's a hero car?
Yeah.
Of course, are you kidding?
Oh, yeah.
It's got doors that do this.
They're like investment grade for some reason.
They're appreciating in value.
You know what?
I don't know why that is.
They shouldn't be because they're not good.
You know what I would rather talk about?
The SF90.
But let's finish this one out because I actually
think that hip hop had a lot to do with the production
of that car because that car was like a rapper's cover car.
I know this because in that era, I worked in France.
You were covering rappers.
I was covering rappers in that kind of car.
Like it was it just looked cool.
It did and sounded cool.
Right.
The doors opened the right direction for rappers.
It sounds like that's where it ended.
And like it was super car theater if you were really
just driving it in traffic most of the time.
It did start the turn of super cars that
needed to be daily driver cars, which is like makes
super cars worse.
Yeah, 100%.
Do you remember when that car came out?
They tried really hard to tie it to the Stirling Moss story.
Yes.
Like that was like everybody who wrote about it.
OK, counterpoint.
The version that has no windshield is good.
Oh, really?
It's good.
Yes, because there's just a silly amount of theater
and it makes the car like worse enough.
We'll see.
So what you just said is really interesting.
And I think it segues well to the SF90
is like making a super car more dailyable makes it worse.
So that's why I'm like really interested to hear.
Because I've never driven one of those,
but I have literally no interest in them at all.
The SF90.
This is probably going to be a problematic because I'm
going on the launch for the 849 Spider in like eight days.
So if I crap on the predecessor of this car on the show
and it goes up before the 27th, this may be.
I think you might just miss it.
This may be problematic.
Well, you don't have to tell us why.
The SF90.
And I drove it three years ago.
And let me let me preface this by saying,
you're not the only person with this opinion.
And here's how I know the prices of SF90s
went from like near a million dollars to like 200,000
dollars in the last year.
Yes.
If you bought one new, you got absolutely hoes.
And then if you bought one second hand,
you got even worse.
Yeah, they were like surged in price.
And now they have crumbled.
If you bought an SF90 in 2022 on the flip,
you are deeply upside down.
Like 2X.
So forget the forget the values, I think,
reflect that the market realizes this isn't a great car.
Yeah.
It's it's just like it's what Ferrari thought everybody
would want.
And it's what it is what people want from a Bentley.
It's not what people want from a Ferrari.
It's a Newport Beach Ferrari.
It's meant for traffic and like.
It's meant for traffic.
It makes a thousand horsepower, but deploys it in a way
that is not particularly interesting.
And in fact, the less powerful 296 in certain situations
will beat it in the quarter mile.
It the 296 came out afterwards for half the price.
And if you aren't like literally an expert,
you cannot tell those.
No, I wouldn't even know.
I mix them up sometimes and I am an expert.
The hybrid system is very finicky.
And Ferraris are already known for kind of that.
Although they had largely solved like like the 458
range of cars is incredibly 458 to 488 to F8.
Like those are reliable cars.
Yeah.
They're not just in the context of Ferrari.
Those are like objectively very reliable.
Yeah.
You can daily drive those.
Yes.
And it's great.
They have tons of miles on them and they work fine.
And they don't like the iPhone connectivity is the biggest
issue that people have.
Which is fine.
I'm OK with that.
But not these.
These are issues.
And so it's heavy.
It doesn't feel athletic in the corners the way either an F8
or a 296 feels.
It has electric range, which who the hell wants to spend 800
grand on a Ferrari to drive around an electric, which you
know, we'll see soon enough what happens there.
But but it just doesn't do the thing that I want from a Ferrari.
You have to pay a huge amount of money for the privilege.
And the resulting car is very, very disappointing.
And which is interesting because I felt like slight
deviation from the topic.
But a lot of these modern super cars think like MC 20, 296,
all these cars.
If you are I'm always like, if you blindfolded me and I drove
them or I was in them, you couldn't tell the difference.
Like they all are like precise, comfortable, fast, but like they
have no personality.
They're just like fast car.
Last week I went through road and tracks listing of like the
fastest hypercars that came out in December.
Right.
I didn't recognize the name of half the cars.
Really?
Right.
And now you're see you're you live in it.
Right.
So like you're living in probably would at least recognize them.
But yeah, no, but like you live in the business of it.
And when I was a journalist, I knew every speck of every
different supercar.
I just don't think they matter as much anymore.
And this is like a whole other conversation.
But like I'm like, oh, I didn't know they made a new version of that.
Oh, and it does that now.
Okay, great.
We're like, to me, I think the Bugatti Veron was like the end of
supercars mattering on like a really big hero car level.
Because there are cars that do 300 miles an hour now.
And I'm like, I didn't even know that existed.
It's weird.
I think that kind of like you, whereas like I'm not
that interested in this car goes 300 instead of 290.
But you're way more interested in the supercar.
Have you seen the shitboxes I drive?
I know, am.
But but but more importantly, like despite what the three of us old people
now think like kids under 21 are obsessed with hypercars.
Like they just are the way that you and I, and although we're obsessed
with whatever the craziest stuff was when we were younger, like that
hasn't actually stopped.
Nice.
We've just become our parents.
And we just like different cars than our parents.
Do you think Ferrari really even understands what people want anymore though?
And I know you're about to walk into a Ferrari press.
It's interesting.
Like there's there's so many things happening at once.
You have like the the luce, right?
The electric car.
Like they had to start developing that like many years ago.
So it's not like they decided six months ago to build an electric car.
And so whatever at the time they started developing that car.
Lamborghini was going to do an electric car.
A bunch of all these people.
Remak just came out and was going to be, you know, a fancy fast,
high expensive electric car four years ago, five years ago was going to be the thing.
They just didn't pull the ripcord.
So you're thinking they looked at the Tesla and said somebody wants the Ferrari
version of the car.
Yes, yes.
I could see that.
And I also think like thinking about the luxury car side of it, because prior
to the pod starting, we were talking about how we're all getting older and like
want more comfortable project cars.
So maybe to err on Ferrari side is there's this world where they're like,
well, people don't really want like raw race car bullshit anymore.
They want like a refined luxury experience with the Ferrari brand.
I personally think that like if you're buying an SF 90, that's like
it's not like you have a daily driver and an SF 90.
You probably have like a daily driver, another like an M three and an SF 90.
That's a third or fourth car.
So it's like a third or fourth car.
So I still am in the camp that like I'm with you.
Like you're buying a Ferrari sports car, $800,000.
That thing should be a race car for the street with some refinements.
And I mean, look, to their to Ferrari's like to give them the benefit of the doubt,
right? Like let's say the idea was sound if the execution fell short.
Like the Lamborghini Ravuelto, I think is like kind of better than the Aventador.
It in the way it uses the hybrid and stuff like that.
I think some of Porsche's hybrids, like I'm not like inherently anti hybrid.
Like it can be done in ways that work well.
I just think that that car, it got really heavy and it got very fast,
but not in a way that like was like, you know, all that exciting to me.
I didn't think the trade off was there in that particular car.
And and at the same time, they off, they wanted all the money for it.
Yeah. I I understand Ferrari wanting to give their sports car customers
something to drive every day.
Look at Cayenne, look at Urus.
Those are hugely successful products.
Yeah. And like I don't like the Urus for myself.
I think it's kind of ugly, like the RS Q8 is way sure.
Beautiful, but it totally does the job where it's like you want this like exotic
looking thing that's a daily driver.
And it's like so you can tell people you drive a Lamborghini
without having to drive a Lamborghini.
Yeah, you get the Lamborghini keys.
You get the key.
But you also get to drive it to 7-Eleven.
Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
I don't hate the Urus, but I don't hate it either.
Just the styling.
But you know, Ferrari doesn't have a platform to share with anybody.
They don't have a, you know, they don't have that.
So but maybe then they should just stay in a line.
I completely agree.
I'm not interested in a full like because Lamborghini gets to lean on
so much technology from the Volkswagen Audi group.
Yeah, it's literally a really good hybrid because there's so many people working on
that and Ferrari, who was really good at building an engine and then putting a
chassis around it, now has to compete with that for sure.
Yeah, for sure.
So, you know, to me, the SF 90 is both it's overrated as an individual model.
It's overrated in terms of how it drives in the scale of all the Ferraris I driven.
And it's overrated in terms of it represents the sort of heavy shift to this
technology that Ferrari is only OK at.
Good list. Good list.
I like that.
We like the last one's DeLorean.
I like that we didn't really touch on the DeLorean because the DeLorean is a
fictitious hero car. That's funny.
Like it's from Back to the Future.
But like I don't did anyone expect it to be a good car?
John DeLorean and did, you know, you know, I mean, it's.
But he was also on a lot of Coke.
But so here's the thing.
Like it's cool.
I love them to look at.
You ever listened to a Coke and explain any idea to you?
It's always going to be really, really.
It is a sick car from a visual perspective.
Yeah, no. And it was my dream car.
Like when I was five, that was my dream car.
And I didn't know it was kind of crappy.
I didn't know it was slow.
I just saw like a crazy look, the stainless steel.
Look, fucking Elon Musk thought the same thing.
He just didn't pull the goddamn ripcord either.
OK, he learned no lessons from the DeLorean building selling process.
Whereas I learned all of those lessons just by buying one goddamn DeLorean.
OK, now I owned one of these things for three years.
And so it was the car, you know, I dreamed of and and and actually
there are a couple good things about it.
It's terrible at like mobbing canyons and it's terrible at bumper to bumper traffic.
But if you lived in like the Midwest and you could cruise,
you know, at a 40 percent cruise around, it's actually OK.
Yeah, it's fine for that.
And if you're a little if you're like you're apple is the requirement for an F
250 no hard breaking
No for sure for sure, but all I'm saying is it doesn't drive terrible at a five times
It's drives terrible at the things we do with cars in Los Angeles. Hmm. That's what I'm good
If I owned the car in Connecticut, I may have kept it
I gotta say one cool one that I saw was like shout out Nick Lamber fucking oh, yeah
I like put a car a turbo six cylinder it is pretty cool
Engine was so dude this this car was built by Steve Maxwell who if you don't know Steve Maxwell
He's a fucking lunatic. Yeah, he's the man that car was sick
It was a Kia Stinger GT engine swap portion
996 gearbox Ferrari 355 challenge brakes a Porsche steering rack and like the craziest
Coney coilover dialed in that's a corner balance. Did you drive it? Yes, did it fix the car? It fucking ripped
It was great. Yeah, but this is a little bit weird. It has that weird X chassis
Yes, which is like no there's they put so much you saying that is how Brian justifies like most of his budget car desires
He's like I want insert crappiest car ever, but I'm gonna insert insane list of mods
And then it'll be cool. So the other the thing he should have done he and even he'll hill tight Nick will tell you this
He should have started with a better car. He bought a crappy DeLorean. You mean a better example
Like well, then it wouldn't be a door
But you know what though I was just saying this to someone recently is like I learned that lesson the hard way multiple times and that I
Will now if I'm gonna do a project car
I'm gonna buy maybe not the nicest one like I'm not gonna buy the most expensive one take it apart
But buy a pretty good car and start with it because starting with a crummy car is so hard
Yeah, to make it sucks so hard. I'm dealing with it my super right now
I bought an original owner twin turbo Supra with low miles, but it was like neglected for a bit
Yeah, you get it replacing like some of these plastic parts cost thousands of dollars impossible to find
Yeah, like you have to dedicate your whole life to finding the nonsense and then somehow it still feel shitty
Almost all the cars I buy are absolute shit boxes and I think to myself
I'm going to save them and then sometimes you realize you just can't it's hard. You can't see
It's so expensive to unshitbox something it's so it's the little things that kill you too
It's like the it's the clip for the you know ash trade
Oh, I was driving my super the other day right and I got most of it. It's like all pretty much back together
And I'm like driving and I'm like how are the two corner dash speaker grill things like rusted
Mm-hmm. I gotta change those you gotta take the dash out. I'm like I'm never gonna fucking do that
So now those are just gonna be like that forever. Yeah, you know like
Mercedes Mercedes plastic bits from the 90s like around the Binnacle like the the the map
Bro
Impossibly yeah, the worst and then like you know spending money on stuff
You're like, oh now just gonna spend 300 dollars on a map light
Surround and you're like this is the worst money ever spent. Yeah, exactly
Is the DeLorean a special car for you then totally? Yeah, I had never personally wanted one
Like me no, but I mean you gotta think back to the future was such a big movie back
Yeah, that it still was for you
I don't think I ever looked at one. It was like ooh, I want one, but you're like you respected. It's cool
Yeah, you know my grandfather had one
I've told the story on the pod before and he had one when I was like six or seven
Which is an amazing time to have it would have been almost new the door
Oh, it was I think yeah about new and I remember like opening the doors
Just getting in the car opening door closing the core opening or closing it and then he sold it six months later
And my dad told me I was like dad, you know why he basically was like the car was trash
Yeah, and it was like finding out that Santa Claus didn't exist like I think I cried like I was like
There's no way that that car wasn't good. How why did grandpa sell it's like it just wasn't a good car
Yeah, no, it's like pretty much true and and actually in most cases like there's nothing between
Like a stock one and all the way to what Nick did which was like 300 grand
Yeah, like you can't like you can make it have it make more power
But with but you can't put bigger brakes in it and you can't do in the chassis
So it's either like full crazy build, you know gung-ho or it's just it just is now having said that
Credit where it's due if you're just cruising and you want a great like
Conversation piece that like women will like, you know, like it's one of the only cars I've ever had where like women
Would approach me and be like I love your car
Up until yesterday
I only owned one car that a woman approached me in and was like this is so cool and that was my 72 Nova
yesterday a woman approached me in my rabbit and was like
These are the kind of cars that women so the the Manx women love I can see that my pink Porsche women fucking
Oh, yeah, love to keep those are the by far my biggest hits a little rose among females
But I always thought like the DeLorean was like a novelty car. It was you know, know in England
They'd call it a pub car. Yeah, you can't it's a great car to cruise to the to the pub and that's about it
Yeah, but given its iconic status. I have to include on the overrated list
So you had already ranked yours. What was your ranking walking in here? The DeLorean was three
The SF 90 was two and the SLR was one nice
Hmm. I would put the DeLorean as one
But maybe just because I'm from an older generation because it was like I think of it is like one of the top
Here overhyped hero cars. It was supposed to be a super car
But you were supposed to be like a 9-11 fighter
Not even 9-11 that makes it so much more shared space on a boys bedroom wall. Yeah, koon-toshes. Yes, correct
Yeah, correct. It was to me to me mentally
And I say is this someone who now has a koon-tosh
It was more important than the koon-tosh
Non-alist for you because I've heard people say
I mean I've listened to Matt and Doug Demiro talk about how amazing of a car that is the best thing ever
It's selectively amazing. You don't want to get stuck in a traffic jam
It's the extreme of what we're talking about with like the Ferrari being an everyday car
Yeah, I remember I talked to you when you got it and you were like it's a car that I take out
Sunday morning early to go to Malibu and make home before traffic. Yeah, like it's a very specific
Like it's a really good highway car. It's extremely comfortable once you're still awkward to get it out of what you're sitting in
It's very comfortable. There's a beautiful ride. It makes a great sound. It sounds cool
It has a dude the trunk I can fit a full weekend a luggage for people two people
I took it to Santa Barbara for the week. It's fabulous. That's sick and where ever you go with it
You're the winner. You have one
I'm super happy to hear this because if you search like most overhyped cars the koon-toshes always
Yeah, no one's driven them. No one's driven them and fewer people here's the other thing. It's got so much oil
It's got like 12 13 quarts of oil in it weird flag. It takes like 30 minutes to warm it all
Yeah, so when it's ice cold, it's clunky
I don't really 360s like that to the ferrari's like that also takes 30 minutes to get oil temp in the thing
I'll try it for half an hour and it won't be no a koon-tosh
It's driven regularly and that has been warmed up should be pretty slick and nice the steering's light
It's it's a beautiful thing. I don't think it's overrated at all. So what do you think tops the list for his most hyped?
You know, I was gonna
Disagree but I think DeLorean being one makes sense because
Because it was supposed to be a super car. I didn't think about that
I you know like when you when you put it on that level you're like, yeah, that's a that's a big let down the SLS is a
Really really close second though. So
I mean, so let's go. Sorry. Sorry. So I thought that's a lot is good and also looks really nice
Right the problem for you with the SLR is I never thought it looked I don't think so either like it looked really
It's very much very George Clooney Batman. It was very George. It was yeah, it was definitely that was very phallic like
I'll tell you what I interviewed Gordon Murray
Yeah, the gist of G's
He hates it
He hates it he has deep personal involvement this car and he was like well not that
And I don't need to love everything Gordon Murray loves but if he hates it, it's bad. Yes. I love that
So are you happy with the DeLorean moving forward is the top of your list would you sure sure?
No, I won't I will not fight that the DeLorean is a good one
I think the SLR could very much come back at the end of this conversation
Let's see your vips cool, so I broke my list up into three groups one childhood dream car
Okay, one a car. I think everyone agrees that they love and then
Modern disappointment so childhood dream car. This is how you know. I'm a piece of trash
Grew up with this on my wall third gen Camaro. I rock Z
I rock Z dude. Yeah
second car
Personal experience. I've owned it
Matt may disagree with me here one of the most overhyped cars. I was really let down by
NA1 NA2 Acura NSX shit. That's my number four nice. Yeah
I knew that was gonna be on your list and I've talked about modern car that I was really
Excited for but disappointed you had just mentioned it Lamborghini Rivalto. Mmm. Oh v12
new modern
Super high is that a hypercar now?
Somewhere whatever you want to draw the just like lacked soul didn't like it
Didn't do anything for me emotionally which was my list which one you want to get into first?
I mean the I rocks II because it's easy. Um, what's hilarious is you had a poster of that?
I want you guys will love this. I tell you guys I
Went to the Jersey Shore almost every weekend like grandparents had a bungalow there
I played a stupid board boardwalk game and I won a prize and the prize was like they had like cars
Posters and I was like I want that one a red I rock Z T tops parked on grass
That was my ultimate dream car or sparked on grass. Yeah the boomer poster. I
Got I got finally I got one for free
My dad works. Yeah, my dad works at a Chevrolet dealership and this old couple turned in a third-gen Camaro
How I rock I was like 20. Okay, I was like 18
They turn they turn that in for a trade-in and it had like 3000 miles on it
And the dealership offered them like 500 bucks and they were like, ah, you could just give it to like someone who needs it
And at the time I was building the motor in my GTI so my dad took it and I was like I'm a daily that shit
Yeah, dream car shit drove it. It was the worst wack is was it?
It was it was an automatic with the 350. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, so I think actually
The styling of that car has begun to age
Well, oh, I agree. We did one at Hoonigan
I remember the one you said it was awesome and it was incredibly cool
And I think they can be made to drive pretty good like
But you're basically backhaving the car for sure. Oh for sure
I think with like a QA one. Yeah, they drive the stock they drive like
QA one and Detroit speed make a lot of cool parts for it
You could probably make it a pretty nice handling car and you put like a newer LT4 motor in it
But then you're talking you got a $200,000 bill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that's a pro touring bill
Yeah, you're no longer like in a third gen Camaro, so I would much like Detroit speed one drives really good
All it needs is like rack and pinion steering dual a arm front suspension all new arms
Sidebar the first strobes LS the first C3 Corvette
I ever drove was the Detroit speed like autocross car. You're like, oh, this is good
I was like, I'ma get me one of these imagine my surprise when I tried an actual 71. I was like, the fuck is wrong
Somebody texted me the other day and they they said man
I just saw a real javelin in life and I've only seen with the ring brothers javelin which I've driven as well
They were like man, that's a very different car. Yeah, that's not the same thing
That's like being like yeah, I love air-cooled 9-elevens like the Gunther works cars. So good. You're like
Yeah, go drive a G body like
By in third gear
Imagine imagine like your first experience in air-cooled was a singer. Yeah, and then you just got dropped off one day in a G body
Yeah, what is this? No, I took someone for a ride in a DLS not long ago
And it wasn't his first ride in an air-cooled, but he it was like yeah one of them
Yeah, it was like wow. This is really something like this is 3000000 dollars
3000000 not a 100003
More than all of our houses put together
By the way
But then the car for me the NSX I think is a really like interesting one because I know you've had one
I did you for quite like three years. I had mine. I had mine for like two. Yeah
It is actually an amazing car to drive. I
Pretty much daily drove mine. I drove it to Santa Margarita a bunch. I drove it to Vegas. I put a lot of miles on it
I thought it was a great
Daily driver car. I thought it offered a
Horrible fun driving experience. I probably took it to the Canyon's three times and I was like this is the worst car for it
I actually completely agree with you. It's a fabulous road trip sport. Oh, yeah
You got a long trip. It's a grand tour. Yeah, it is absolutely grand tour
The brakes and the steering in the canyons are fucking heinous and the cars and the
Ratio bad you had a six I better and I had more torque
I had three point two the steering ratio, which is like three point fucking nine to one
Dude is it it's a terrible thing to steer. It's just a terrible thing to steer
And so what you want to do a million miles on it? Here's the problem
If you've got a great NSX like I had a great. Yeah a great one. Yeah, I know five low mile
miles are
crazy money
Oh
What yours have I bought it with 17,000 miles on it and I sold it with 21 and if I had sold it with 19
I probably could have stacked 25k on top of what I so like I hate cars like that by the way
It sucked it sucked the mileage prison is the lamest thing because it was nice to drive
But not like mind-blowing you want to hear okay, just pleasant and
That's why they have so many high mile ones
So if you actually just yeah, if you buy one with a bunch of miles and you put a bunch more miles are cheap because
With 115 and I sold it with like 130 and it was great
That's the same but if you buy a low mile one man miles are very very expensive in terms of yeah
Yeah, that's why that's why I got the funniest little tip on that and this is what like broke mileage for 90s cars for me is
I bought my car. I immediately sent it to a shop. We did an engine out service timing belt water pump all the stuff
all right
First big road trip on it take it up to this first that drive it up there on the way
Down my speedo stopped working. So I'm gonna fuck so I call the shop and I'm like hey speedo stopped working
They're like, oh just swing in we'll just swap it for you super easy. It's like right on top of the transmission. So go in
They're like, yeah, we have one here. We'll just swap it and they're doing like
Surprise you even want to change it. Well, like what do you mean?
Like the speedo doesn't work and they were like the
They're like most guys unplug it when they drive long distances and it clicked
That's when I was looking for when I was looking for NSX is when I was looking for NSX is I remember a car faxed
One in particular and it was bought like eight years ago by like a dude
Who's not a collector just like a dude and it had like
60,000 miles and then every year or like two years and it would get smogged it would have like
300 more miles on it and you're like you really only drove this car 300 miles a year
And I was like, oh no, you literally pop the hood you reach in and you just unplug the fucking speedo sensor and the car drives
a hundred percent normal
That's and you're like no wonder why all these cuz like back in the day
I feel like 60 K was probably the cusp like now it's like 10
Yeah, yeah, like 60 was like probably it and people were probably just like well it's at 59
So now I'm just gonna like incrementally. Thanks for telling me now. I could have been doing fraud this whole yeah
I
Already had high mileage
And the undercarriage of my car absolutely reflected the accurate miles
So you weren't fucking with that thing is like people who are
Experienced with purchasing cars and stuff they could figure that out cuz like you look at some cars and you're like that clearly doesn't have
Yeah, right case and looks hammered, but yeah, it's just crazy. So that to me was like super bummed with when you like I remember
You realizing that that car wasn't as great as you thought it was gonna be it was like the sign-fold episode of like the girl
Who looks different in different light? Yeah, yeah, like like there were moments where like you were like I love this car
I don't love this car. Maybe I don't fit in it. Well, I'm gonna get the seat redone like like certain things about it
Are amazing for the car. Yeah, so like the fact that it has this enormous trunk is amazing
Yeah, the fact that you can take the top off was yours a tee
No, I'm not 91 so you could take the top off mine and it goes on top of the engine
So it doesn't you can pack the trunk doesn't impact the trunk
So you can go on a full road trip top up top down all your luggage. No problem
I mean certain packaging and ergonomics things about this car looks great and at one point in 2023 I
Had a Ferrari 328 the NSX and my 718 spider all at the same time and you could draw a straight line to those cars
Yeah, the Japanese guys said okay this but good
Yeah, and then and then the Germans said this but good and so I started realizing last year
Why am I taking miles away from my Boxster where miles cost me fucking nothing and driving this?
Substandard experience NSX where miles cost me a goddamn fortune. Let's fucking dump this thing your spider
Yeah, you think miles cost nothing my spider miles cost nothing why because because I mean they don't cause they don't cost much in terms of
Depreciation oh, oh because the car is just going up my my specific car
I believe I could effectively now I intend to keep it for a very very long yeah
I don't think my car will depreciate like other spiders because it's got a demand motor because it's mine because it's special
That's just my prediction if I ever chose a cell which I do not yeah, okay cool
Yeah, I agree with that like I only have so much time to drive cars
Yeah, I got one or two days a week for fun driving. Yeah, let's drive the fucking
Faster better steering better brakes more powerful more comfortable car and sell the one yeah
And also all of us are a bit taller like you tried sitting in my NSX
Yeah, you're a no-go I was I was a seat pad out guy and I used to sometimes like
Sloop in my seat because like the number one thing you hear about the NSX is like fighter jet style seating position
So I used to literally be driving and it'd be like oh
Yeah, I guess that's pretty cool
Like if I were eight inches shorter, this would be sick your 56 Yeah about right. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's true
It's it's it's a row of sixes across the board, but no tens. No no tens the engine is
Horrifically boring it doesn't sound cool the gear much the service is a Ferrari
The engine out is the same I paid for my 9-11's engine out and for my fucking
Major service a couple years ago when I started my YouTube channel
I did an episode and it was called like
The Honda that's more expensive than a super car some shit because you can get a Ferrari 360 engine for 7500 bucks
You could do a timing belt service for 1300 bucks
Yeah, you can do like all the stuff and then you look at the NSX like an NSX
Yeah, whatever. What is that a C30 a that motor 25,000 dollars timing belt service. You have to drop the engine
Yeah, it's like seven grand. Yeah, I paid a vase of motorsports
$6,800 for a major service. Yeah, I paid like $8,000 to do mine like they're not it's everything on an NSX is so expensive
except tires tires and and and it's and it's
It's deep. It's a dependable thing. You know, I mean like it's not likely to leave you stranded
Yeah, but there's shit that fucking adds up in that car. Yeah, crazy stuff. I had to have my AC service
I was like 33 grand like I think the most surprising thing to hear from both of you guys because I don't ever heard this before is that it's
Just not a good driving like Canyon car. No, it's just a good cruiser
It's a car if you're driving it seems like such a weird car to be a cruiser, right? Right? It does
You know, you wouldn't think the Coontosh is a good GT car either, but it is yeah
It's a better GT car than it is a Canyon car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, would you say that your 360 is a good Canyon car?
Better than the NSX. Here's the thing I
Be so embarrassing only margin so embarrassing. Um, I recently raised my 360 like an inch and it's so much better
and it's fucking
Rips it went from like a stance shit box to yeah like an absolute race car
So you're not gonna make fun of you'll my tires, but not my yeah
Once you get rid of your 400 treadwear parade are those winter you had snow
Yeah, Brian's thinking that's a
Guy that I bought off of like clearly was tracking it and I think he took off his
Rubber to be like it's not a track car when I bought my 997 RS
It came on handcooked V12 and I immediately like first weekend
I had to drive it so I took it to like good time eat and everyone made fun of the tires because you're like you have this like factory race car on
$120 like
And I got sold yeah, I judged yeah, it was definitely the dude just being like I need to put tires on this thing
So I bought the cheap one. I judged a charity car show last weekend
And like I was judging the exotics category and you know, I had to find one winner from like 35 or 40 cars
So one of my instant DQ's was if you had tires over seven years old
Instant DQ and then I also had a soft DQ which is an instant DQ
I would tell you your fucking time you need a problem the soft DQ
I wouldn't tell them I would just give them a row of zeros was if they had their Instagram handle on the side
That's a soft DQ, but dude. There was a guy
With a pumpkin 997 RS with a cage in it. Okay, and buckets the shit
tires date code
2015 Wow, I just bought a Corvette C606 for JP
7000 miles original tires beautiful date code
2011 and JP's gonna mod it and stuff, but he was driving it around yesterday, and I was like, hey be careful
Like these are like however old 15 year old
All right, so I was the last thing in your group
The Revolt oh so my thing with that is I drove one of those and I do think it is a cool car
It just sort of is one of those things where you're like hell. Yeah Lamborghini make in a V12 naturally aspirated
Super hypercar, and then you drive it and you're just kind of like
Speed is no sensation. You got to go 3000000 miles an hour to feel like you're doing 60
Not really any NVH
Like it sounds cool the hybrid thing kind of ruins it for me
Like I don't know just felt like that like modern era of
hypercar that lost a lot of feeling
And like is just trying to rest on the laurels of it being like a thousand horsepower V12 like it's more about the stats than the experience
Mm-hmm. I kind of disagree
I think the key with the revuelto is you got to drive it in like the right mode
Like if you drive it in hybrid mode and the engines like kicking on and off like that's horrible
Yeah, and have that that's terrible
But if you put it if you just click the one thumb button and just put it into sport start sport the engine stays on
When the engine stays on all the time
You kind of forget that it's a hybrid and and and I've driven it around town
I got one for like a week as a press car, but I drove a performance car the year also so I tracked it a bunch
I've never driven a V12 Lamborghini that was better on a racetrack
See it's interesting because you like you get such a different driving experience and I do because whenever I get cars for like videos
Yeah getting cars for like a couple hours
And I have like a huge thing to do and I don't get to like have the same amount of seat time
Whereas I feel like you really like I've driven a lot of well to see time
I've been where you've been a bunch of times. Well, I've done I've done videos in yeah
No experience, but like you get kind of a different taste when you're like
I have to kind of get like the tick-tock version of this
Yeah, like experiencing it for a short burst of time
I give you a list of cars where I've gone 180 on yeah after driving it for longer interesting
List of cars on that that could be a whole I think that's actually that's a really funny thing of driving on the launch versus owning it
For a week sure such a different experience and like I compare it to it's probably weird
But when you go to a like a red carpet movie premiere the movie always feels good
Yeah, but if you were to watch it on Netflix you'd be like this isn't that you know what I mean
There's something special stand-up comedy is actually that's a better analogy going and watching a comedian at a comedy club versus watching the special
Driving the car on the press launch feels like that. Yeah, everybody's there like they definitely create the bubble
They make it really exciting. You're getting to drive it on track. Yeah, you don't have to live with it
When you show up to go eat lunch, they have a parking spot
It's not like you know you're going wow this thing is almost impossible to park
I can't see out the rear of the car. I had so I had ever both I went on the press and not I didn't go on the launch
We have a performance car of the year
Which is two days on a racetrack and two days on the road
I drove it a bunch and then I got one for a week and I drove it around LA and I hit the canyons and all that other kind of
Shit too. I thought it was great to use every day to be honest with you because it doesn't have a mechanical front drive anymore
It you can fit now and I can fit it's really comfortable
And like I said if you keep the engine on which it's easy to do
You don't notice so much that it's a hybrid. You don't have to plug it in
It's not a plug-in hybrid the funny thing about that like you know you only drive in like a set
Situation is the other day I forgot that I had driven the Gunther works turbo
Because I got to do one to forget so they know it's one of the most fun cars
I think I've ever driven and
They were like oh you could take the car for a week
But then something happened and it ended up just being like I had the car for the day
Yeah, and we were shooting and everything and I like just completely forgot
I was like wait, how did I get to that spot?
We shoot shop beauties out like did I drive it on the highway like I didn't even remember yeah
Because you're so like consumed with making content and stuff and like you could easily overlook a lot of stuff when you're just
Driving something for this like basic intended purpose. Was that the orange one of the one?
So I just drove the new one the slant nose one. I I actually
Included it as one of my lists because I think they I actually I think they I think they've gone too far
They've gone too far and they need to dial it down the orange car was beyond psychotic
Yeah, the limit of what my brain can process right this is this is too much
Wow, okay. That's a fun thing to talk about. It's too much. It's not there. It's just I
drove it for two and a half hours three hours and I went straight to bed afterwards
It was it was so tiring and I could see that because I drove the orange one around and it was like
It
Mind-blowingly fast and like, you know modern-day mo-tech and stuff has sophisticated TC and all this or like it puts it down
It's not super you have to be like it's terrible. I think it's yeah. Yeah. Yeah mind-blowingly fast
It's dangerously fast like I and you feel free to bleep this out, but allegedly on
Up on Lake Hughes Road up in Custay I saw 186 miles an hour
Topping out fifth gear
Do you need me to bleep that out?
Camera coming in right now, it's it but it's but but I told I told Peter from Gunther
I said look you have proven you've reached the end. Yeah. Yeah, this is it. Don't go further people will die
Yeah, now make me a comfortable one. Yeah, can you make me a
500 horsepower comfortable one that I want to spend all day. Yeah, that is your next challenge
Yeah, so anyway back to the no good point. Yeah, so which one tops your list if you had to pick the one if I had to pick
One I think it'd be then a sex because I think it's the most widely desired car like you talk to people and it is a absolute hero
It is the poster. Yeah. Yeah, I mean and they're universally considered great things
Yeah, the Iraq Z's also a really good one at least but for a different generation different gen
I think I think people now know the Iraq Z's not that good. Yeah, most people would say I would expect that car to suck
And it's a little too affordable and common to be a true hero car
Yeah, you could go for like six great like I remember smoking ones with my VR six
Golf and like the owner being like what the hell's in there? I'm like a stock of VR six that car is just trash
By the way, can we next year should we plan this now for like January?
Can we all go to Barrett Jackson for like the first two days where the cheap shit?
With like 15k and you have to spend it all drive it back and drive it home. I like that as an idea
Yeah, dude, I went last year dude. Yeah, there was C4 ZR ones for that 20 dude
The SN 95 was like the Cobra R sold for like 20 grand. Yeah, and you're like what the fuck a Cobra R
You know what I almost bought last week, but but stop myself. Thank God it didn't turn me I found no
I found a Celine S 351 R speedster. Wow no miles on it, but they wanted all the money
Yeah, I'd stop my didn't I text you about it, but you I texted okay
I texted I texted some not when I told you the price
Not for a hundred and 15000 dollars. No
For for 60 all day. Yeah, I went to Barrett Jackson in
2007 maybe 78 with Ryan Dunn and and and we were there the Scottsdale one and
Akuntosh went because I thought nobody wanted sold for 29000 no way
Yeah, I mean it was already lower and like he was so angry because he could it somebody got a little of a life
He hadn't signed up to bid because we were just there hanging out and drinking and then also I was like dude
I want this so bad and it's like to think about like you can pick up a classic because if the
Yeah, and is not if the people there aren't thinking this is what they're buying it just can fall
I walked around the what they it was fuck was it me come it may have been me come where they have where it's like if it the
No say yeah the bid goes on whatever and you can just fucking write a number on the one like if you want like enough in our
Nodge are oh, yeah, you'll pick that up cheap like those there are some good deals there
I saw I saw a zillion muscle cars that were a set of bad 90s wheels away
You know it was it was all you got to put the stock wheels back in your thing and you're fucking 20% return
Yeah, all right, so we all agree on the NSX. Yeah, I think that we're all there
So all right first we're gonna take a quick break come back and then I'll drop my list
Right now you might have realized I
Really enjoy European things. I mean my cars are European my tools are European
I mean my producer he's British which I think is still European. That was rude, but go on
That's how you what I did this weekend. What did you do?
So I decided that I'm gonna actually park the van a gone for a little bit and get back to driving the RS to like literally
Knock the dust off of it and to do that. I figured I do a little preventive maintenance
It's not something I think of when you did yeah
You see the problem is that car gets a lot of things right
But there's this one issue where the strut bearings just constantly fail
Especially if the car is like slammed on its nuts like minus
So I ordered a set of strap ranks from FCP euro got them and was gonna swap them out and I stripped this really
Annoying nut like seriously curse the German engineer who designed this it's like a weird half castle nut
It requires this weird specialty tool and if you put too much force on it it gives up
So anyway, I stripped that and now my car was on a jack stand and honestly
I was about to just leave it there like I've left many other projects to die
But it's the RS too so headed in went to fcp euro comm found the part because they had it in Arizona
They were able to overnight it to me boom
I had at the next day at my farm got the car back on the road. It's awesome
FCP euro most likely has the parts you need and get them to you pronto, you know, so you can keep driving the cool cars
That's what matters. Yeah, what's up? So last week we piloted this whole new idea. It's called very vehicular
Showcase when we did it on pikes peak
Fortunately we uploaded it pretty late on Friday night
So I think a lot of you might have missed it go check it out because we put a bunch of work into it
We want you to see it. That's all I'm back to the show
Let's hear Brian Scott. Oh, I am so nervous three disappointments
It's a aren't Vinanatra
Like Matt with a fresh weed
Coming in coming in hard on that one well my list sucks now
My list in no particular order the
R35 GTR Oh good one
The
E30 M3 also a good one boy or you and last the Fox body must I
The Fox body must hang for me lives in the same world that I think the Camaro does for him
And the thing that was sort of tied for that position
But I kept it out because I realized you guys might have experience in it is another Ford product
Which is the escort cause worth?
That I thought would like as a kid I grew up loving that car and then I got to drive it and it was not
It wasn't even like not that good like it was less fun than like a mark 3 VR
Yeah, like I'll admit isn't that good of a car? No, I think if I have a vote
I think the escort cause with is more disappointing than a Fox body because it looks crazier
Yeah, like it looks like it's gonna be more special because it's like it was unobtainium for us
It was exotic and yeah, rally. Yeah, so you want me to have that my list instead is that I would once owned a Fox body
Oh, I used a lot of money on a Fox body. It takes a lot of money to make a Fox body good
I'm not gonna argue that the Fox body was where I grew up like the hero
Yeah, I'm like street racing. I mean good stock. They kind of suck a Fox body is a fabulous starting point for a fun build
Yeah, yeah, it starts with the Italian flag on the back left corner and then you go
E cam and a P1 SC
Running bigs and littles yeah on the belt Parkway slicks of skinnies you gotta have the the well drag lights
American racing five stars dude. Yeah, I was there. Yeah running 15
I got my very first street race my only street race really
Got lined up on my fucking SN 95 my mom wouldn't let me have a Fox body. She made me get my airbags
Yeah, yeah, my friends all have Fox bodies. I lined up
Had never really heard much about the eclipse GSX
Learned what its tail lights looked like
Yeah, yeah, that's that thing was impressive. No, but the Fox body is
What is good?
objectively because it is the smallest muscle car and
Having a car that I physically small but but sounds like a muscle car and that you mod like a muscle car is objectively good
You know what toxic trait of mine is finding clean
Either Calypso green or that that ugly-ass tan
Notch back mustangs and like
Asking them it's still available
GTs or
Top spec. Yes. So mine was mine was a real car was so cool. Yeah. Yeah
Someone tries to sell it back to me about every three years for more than I
Mean hey everything goes up, you know, I think the problem for me though
No, but you know what that's a really good like kind of the way to think about it
It is the last of the original muscle cars, which is like base. They're not that good
Yeah, but they're a good platform to throw a ton of money at yeah, like that I thought I it's yeah
It's like a Lego car. Yeah, you know like you're yeah, you you have to mess with it for it to be good
But honestly and I know you said you had a category. So
Every 90s JDM hero car
Sucks stock. Yeah. Yeah, but I'd cool you like the RX 7 fd. Yeah, pretty good
Actually, but it livens up a lot with the the mark for super was this close to being on my list because I do
I drove it for the first time in like, I don't know 2000
I have a bone and I just I just was so unimpressed by it and I thought it was like a hero car
No, I have a 100% stock mark for Supra twin turbo and it was automatic at one point
Yeah, and it like automatic it was a not a car. It wasn't even worth it's Alexis
I cleaned it up. I like restored this thing and then I never drove it because the automatic was so trash and now it's v 160 and it's
Which ones of v 160 like oh, yeah, I'm six speed. Oh, it's that's the good
That's the hard to get one. Yeah, the very expensive one. Yeah random hot take
The best of the golden era JDM cars are all the front wheel drive cars in terms of the experience you expect
versus the experience you get
Disagree like an entire the skyline is the shit
Let's maybe remove that one because I know because then and that's going to get into my that's going to get into my r35
Conversation, but maybe say us the cars you could get the japanese 90s era cars
Yeah, the sport compact the super was expected to be like I think all of those cars the nsx we've already talked about that
I think like dc2 type r out the box
I was gonna say the entire the entire type r si 99
That's my point like you get into those cars and they're actually really really good
Because I think your expectation for them isn't to be what you thought a super was going to be
Yeah, I supras weren't anything to me until fast and the furious
I had rich friends in high school that drove mark four supras brand new and like they were nice cars
But it wasn't they weren't the thing that they are now see for me supras was like the first big horsepower cars
That I was seeing in new york like 500 horsepower
Mark four super yeah
It's like so those were the first really fast cars I got I think I was just probably focused on
Mustangs at that time. Yeah, so you know it's just like who are your friends and who are my friends and whatever
Obviously my friends were trashier than yours. I'm back to the r35
So you may not remember this as much as you were a bit younger
But like the build-up and the height for the gtr the new gtr coming and the first gtr that america was ever going to have
was
Like just it was it was massive. It was massive and then it finally landed and I got flown out to renofaley
To drive to the first u.s. Launch renofernley. Yeah, yeah
Oh, all right. By the way, what a fantastic racetrack r.i.p. It was it was no longer with us
It was really a motorcycle track. Yeah, but it was super tight really fun had that banked section
Um, and it was right outside of tahoe. I did my first ever wheel-to-wheel race there in 2010
Yeah, you know the track still exists. No way no way or was for sale for a while. Yeah, let's get on it
Yeah, but um amazing amazing fun like technical track
But anyway, they did the launch there and I've never wanted to like a car more and not like it
Like it just felt heavy. It felt big. It felt everything and then I had only I had driven
r33 at that point I guess I driven an r32 I driven soupy had an r33 you remember soupies at ai
No, he's lovely. Yeah, and like those were like I had driven all of those and I was expecting this to be
The spiritual successor and it wasn't it was like it totally different could have been as far from that car as possible
That's not making the r35 a bad car
But I feel like it was put on this massive pedestal and it just did not deliver it for me
I never had an interest in driving one again. I got to drive it on track. I got to the street drive it
I had one for like a week
But like after that I was like, okay, I'm good and like occasionally I'll see one pop up and I'm like
That'd be like a good daily like like
But and I get because I just saw 2000 horsepower with them like they're great
That's funny because I really want one as a daily. I've only driven an r35
race car
Yeah, never a street car and I still like I need to get a daily and I was thinking I was like, oh, maybe let's get an r35
I would not there. So here's the problem huge on the outside small small on the inside
and then
They they drive like real clunky. Yeah, like it's a lot of like bangs and clunks and shit
Steering is really disconnected engines sound good and and I I've seen this a couple times where they're so boring
That people will do the 800 kit then the thousand kit the 1200 kit the fifth
I met a guy who was at like 1500 horsepower and I drove it. I was like, this is a psychotic car
You know, it was it was getting one gallon one mile per gallon on e85
He's like you're literally I think I'm gonna get the 2000 like this isn't enough for you
He's like it ought to affix you while you're driving just so you feel something. How boring is this car that like 1800 isn't enough
Yeah, the fuck is wrong with you. Um, I think I drove a 997 dot two with pdk turbo
Just incredible Porsche figured out that I went as soon as I drove a Porsche dual clutch gearbox
I went well, there's Nissan's first mover advantage that just wiped that out. Yeah, I drove a
And that was the original selling point. Yeah, I drove a 997 dot two turbo s
stock
credits
Incredible
Also that car will mop up just about anything on the roads still. Yeah, like so sick
So like I just feel that the GTR the whatever the r35 GTR only holds its status
Because it holds the GTR name. Yeah, like yeah, it's not a skyline
For sure
It does the things that I love about a skyline are not present in that vehicle
I don't know because I mean now that I I've been dailying an r33 GTR
um
It lives exactly like what you said like it's
Massive on the outside. I park it in my garage. My garage is small
I hit my like viper chair
Every time because I'm like am I in all the way it's so big. It's a sedan
That's as big as my station wagon
But small on the inside like I don't think someone could sit behind me. That's like the continental gt
Yeah, remember that? Yeah, it was like it felt like a compact car
Like if you if you when we go outside you like take a step back and look at the size
32 is not so much but 33s are big 33s and 34s are
Yeah, but they I there's I think there's so much to be said
I'm sure you fucking know for driving manual like the 34 does have that semi active all-wheel drive
It's got the rear steer. It's got the Gran Turismo gauges like a lot of that same shit
That's in the later car like is there but the fact that it's stick
Keeps it honest. I mean the thing for me for the r35 is it looks like it was carved out of granite
And it feels like driving granite as well like it just way too heavy
I don't know but I wanted it's one of the few cars
I really really wanted to like and just couldn't convince myself to like and that's literally what I've heard from everyone
Yeah, which is crazy. It's amazing that it then lasted for like what feels like 50 years
They've made this same to 25. Yeah, this same pretty much the same exact car
Yeah, and what's crazy is some of them are somehow like investment grade
I just thought Doug did something where it's like that's one of the like least appreciating cars because at one point
I was like I'll buy an r35 because they have to be like dirt cheap by no they have a floor
They all have they need they've made like a million of them. They made enough
It's like just the right number to where they'll depreciate to like 55,000 bucks and stay there for eternity
Yeah, they're never going to be cheap. Yeah, but which is weird. I still don't see them a lot
Like it's not like something I just see cruising on the highway when I when I do see one being driven around like in normal
Traffic, it definitely makes me turn my head and be like, oh cool
Oh, look, there's one we saw them more a few years ago. Yeah, I think the ones that are left have been put away
Yeah, but they just I I I found them to be
Driving them is a forgettable experience to me. That's effective. It will put down a lap time
Get out of it walk away and go, you know, okay. I'm done with that now
I mean, I had an amazing day with that car because I spent the day with steve millen
And it was one of those days where all the other journalists are like, I'm gonna go eat the cold chicken
And I just had like an open track steve millen and a racetrack is super rad
And even in that even having well if that was a centra you would have had a good time
Well, that's the point like even that day was so I was put in a
Picture perfect world, right? It was the comedy club moment for that car. Yeah, I still wasn't sold
Like oh what a depressing moment and I still see people put that car on this like second
You know what I'd rather drive straight up. I just went on the launch for the new z nismo with a stick
Lovely, oh really lovely. I wouldn't even think I don't even I forget that that car. Yeah, right
You don't never see them. Yeah, you don't see like talk about a car that had such fanfare in the 350 370 world and then
Yeah, literally, I can't remember the last time I saw 400 it took them too long to deliver
Yeah, I thought that way about when I think you can get them now, but people have kind of mentally forgotten
Yeah, but the nismo version
steering wheel to tires ass to tires
I mean dialed really nicely like a proper driver night. I tested it sonoma
Because we keep having this conversation is like what is a modern driver's car? There's not a lot of these left, dude
I mean this thing is under 70 grand gr86 or 370
through our 400z
Well, the nismo is more like 68,000 much better than like a gr86
The nismo is like competes with like an m2. Oh, wow
And I'd rather own and drive the nismo than the m2. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Wow. That's big something to put on the list
The m2 is like
Holaciously powerful. Yeah, but I don't really like using it that much unless I'm drifting or something. Yeah speaking of m products
Um, yeah, 30 m3. So yeah, just to start
I'm not a big bmw guy. I think the e30 m3 is one of the coolest looking cars of all time
Like it is just there for homologation cars are objectively good. I would go buy one
Arguably, it's homologation is what makes it suck
Right because they had to have a the four cylinder four cylinder high revving
Which means that like normal driving is kind of painful in it because if you're not over four grand it doesn't really do much
50 to 80
It's a great time. Yeah. Yeah, I'm like I'm and if you're only driving by yourself on track
I imagine it's really fun, but it's definitely slower than everything else. That's kind of out. I just had an e30 m3
Last year was it? Yeah, not not long ago. Um white one, right? Absolutely like driving it
Felt cool because you're like this thing is the coolest looking fucking car
Take it out to dinner and you're like you feel classy in it somehow. Yeah, it's cool
Driving it was the most boring experience ever. Yeah, and because it's not like look
I like slow cars, but it had no theater. Yeah, no induction noise. No exhaust noise. No
S14 does have like you can make it like it has itb's like it looks the part like when you pop the hood
Everything visually checks it checks every box you want. The dash is perfect. Like everything. I think I think you could
You could make it pretty exciting
I did one major thing wrong
But if you did like an intake like carbon air box you did a good exhaust
You do a quicker ratio of steering rack and a smaller steering wheel
I think you make work the one thing that I screwed up that I would have never thought about was
I was telling someone I was like it just like sucks like even in the canyon. It's like so boring and they were like
You got two new of tires on it. They're like you're running
Yokohama a o 52 is like one of the greatest
Street track tires right now. They're like too much tires. There's too much tire there
These cars came out running bullshit like you need you need a little bit of like
Slip like it needs to be a little looser. I could see why somebody would say that. What happened
Oh, do you know I thought you were gonna tell me no
I felt like it was so boring because it was like low powered and amazingly hooked up right like sure like
So I couldn't get any drama out of it. Yeah, the best. I mean
You know talking about it's like it's too valuable to be in the same world as the fox body
But like if you're driving one with like an s54 in it, that's my dream build
Then my 30 with an s54 to six speed is
Top three driving cars I've ever driven. I'm so upset because somebody reached out to me on instagram and offered me a
E30 m3 roller in red and I was like I will wire you the money tomorrow
Tomorrow came and he was like, I'm sorry. I put it on facebook marketplace last night
It's gone in two minutes because I was gonna s54 swap it because that's like
330
Wheel horsepower and a you don't need to use an m3. You can use any decent three series chassis
It's like it'll be fine. It is the most perfect front engine rear drive just enough too much
Kind of fucking no, you know
The greatest the greatest packaged and something that looks incredibly cool
Yeah, I think actually the biggest is what I have with the e30 today is the price versus fun
Sure when it was a $10,000 car it was amazing now. It's like a 70 to 80,000. I sold mine for $75,000
Which is cool. I just sold for a client a really nice
325 is the six cylinder. Yeah black black
It had a model like plastic bumper car
It was yes painted bumpers painted bumpers is
And it was it had miles on it over a 100000 but less than 200,000
20 24,000 six that's that right even still pretty expensive, but like that's like a nice car
That's a really cool car for the money. It didn't need anything. I mean that if you if you but let's say you wanted one to do an engine swap
1315 I mean it's more than you want to spend but it's not like yeah, it's not that crazy
speaking of lexuses the lfa is a car for me that belongs on the list like because
I've ever driven one. I drove it new and it was like a little bit better than the gtr
Right and now people
You put it in this halo because I think million owns one
All right, and it has become this crazy car and I guess like counterpoint
No, no, I'd love to hear it
I just was not that impressed by it and all of a sudden like three months ago
I realized that everyone thinks it's the coolest car that existed
I have a buddy that has two and he thinks they're incredible. They're I think they're cool
So here's the thing the tech that went into it the carbon loom and all that shit is wild the
The sound of that engine is it's incredible. It's incredible. It's incredible very very special
And although the single clutch gearbox is not great
It's not as bad as Ferrari or Lamborghinis actually that's true. And they're super super dependable those cars really work
Of course, they work. It's a toy. Honestly sound is such a big part of it
It is like I had said the r33 I have has like a bunch of mods and stuff
And I had to I've been I drove it a lot before we tuned it
Because it came from high altitude and I fell in love with it just because of the sound
Yeah, like so I could imagine driving the lfa even if like it lacks a lot of chassis dynamics
That just aren't so crazy just hearing a v12. You're like this. Yeah. The chassis dynamics aren't bad. It's from mid engine
It drives pretty you know, it drives as good as a nice Corvette drives like mid engine. Yeah, I like that
Technically what is yeah, I mean that's what astens are too, right? They like fall into that
The db12 is I don't think the vantage point is the Ferrari 12c is front mid
And the a12 is front mid. Yeah an amg gt was front mid
The huna kwan was front mid. Yes, it was we moved the engine back far enough to make it front mid pretty cool
Yeah, all right, and then lastly as we mentioned, I don't really have much to say on it other than I grew up
absolutely loving the Ford cozy and I thought it was one of the coolest cars ever and then I drove it and
The all-wheel drive actually made it worse
Wait, hold up. Hold up. Did you get four? What do you get four? No, no, no, I I said look it's either the fox body or the whatever
We talked about fox body even though it didn't make it
Honestly, I didn't have I I thought you would pick the e30 m3. So I figured that was gonna get knocked out
It was so close to being on my list, but I didn't yeah
I got to drive ken ordered one came from italy showed up and I'm like I get to drive this car
It's like this dream moment and it was at hoonigan and I drove it like four blocks
So I was like I don't want to drive it anymore like
Like I didn't want to know how much worse it could get
Yeah, I was just like block your opinion. You know that just kids like like it made the noises
But then I'm like looking and like the ultimus passing me. I'm like, okay. It's not fast
It was just kind of there's nothing worse. You're felt disconnected like nothing about it was that great
I've driven a an Audi s2 quattro short-wheeled. Yeah, zuckerman's car
Yeah, one of the weirdest most terrible driving cars you ever seen was like he sold him $450,000 or something
And it drove like straight trash the air quattro was like almost there on the list for me
But I think the other ones were worse man
I get so bummed thinking about like driving the hero cars for the first time and realizing they suck
Like that's like that's like it's like a huge buzzkill. I drove an incredibly disappointing lancy astratos too
It was it wasn't it didn't ruin all stratoces
But this one was as as raced in the Monte Carlo
It was a race car as raced in the Monte Carlo rally
So it was a quick change rear end. So top speed red line fifth gear 78. Love it. Probably a riot
Are we got to do an episode that's like the opposite of this which is like cars that look wack but are insanely fun
I'd be great. I totally agree. It's a more positive episode. Yeah. Yeah, so
Um, all right. So this is now the point of the show where we uh, we go check on the patreon list
So this is basically cars that they mentioned that maybe like, you know, we've uh, we've looked over just thumbs up thumbs down
Those real quick whatever. Yeah, whatever. However, we want to however go about it. So, um, just we got
Irock Camaro. Yeah, that's definitely there. This one the bug eye sti
No, it's a good car. I think it's a great car. First off all stis drive the same. So yeah, you can't single out the bug eye
Is being great. The bug eye had a little bit less power, but like but that's not like negligible. They're also a great car
Yeah, yeah, since all stis drive the same then you can
90s mr2
I never round in ones. Those are actually quite lovely and you can do a lot with them
I've driven some set up ones. Yeah, I said 95 must I I think actually they're I think they're
If you if it's if you view it as a hero car, sure, it's disappointing if you view it as a cheap used car
Not a hero. They're not that you also had Fox body and a 86 corolla. I don't put that as a hero car
That's that that lands in the same world like a gti or like a yeah
Like a like a civic and like sure you could have wanted a civic or that but it's not
Argued though that that the iROC z and the fox body also are that but just yeah, that's true
It's that is true. I don't know. I think I think to a particular group of young kids like because of
Initial d and you know drifting the 86 was definitely put on it. I have driven multiple
Aces I have only driven up for drift car and for set up for drift and they were awesome
Yeah, I think they did not disappoint at all. I think they were fucking great, dude
Was it a black a black top? Is that the right engine you want or a silver top?
What's the good? No, the the good engine you wanted those as a beams or like a 20 val
4a g or a something no, but within the 4a g either is what the black top and the silver top
And one has the better head. I don't fucking remember, but they rip. Yeah, they're fun. Yeah dodge viper
Well, here's the thing
I kind of love the dodge viper, but I don't know what it is
It is exactly the thing that everyone fucking tells nobody should be a surprised by a viper at this point
They're exactly what everybody says they are if an asshole was a car. It's a dodge. I think a dodge
I have no experience in them so I can't say but I always joke that I'm like, oh a corvette is not a
Not a sports car. It's not like a super car. It's a corvette. Yeah, it's its own world
And I completely disregard vipers in existence because I don't consider them
Like I never consider a super car than corvette because it's ergonomically worse
Yeah, stupider in all these ways. Right. Definitely. Um, interesting, but it's also way more raw
Yeah, it is a viper is if like a bunch of old guys who sit around with muscle cars was like, we're gonna build a race car
It's like that's what they would build. I want to drive a viper
If you never had never driven a viper, so they're really interesting so the early early cars
Which is your favorite gen of the viper? So I am a very specific taste
Can I can pause you and just say that I hope that the only viper that is your favorite is the guy in venice beach
Oh my god with that guy with the bicycle in it. That is exactly up to like
220 230 thousand miles. I saw that guy
This guy had a viper he would leave the top off. He would just leave it parked at the beach
They were just be like Matt would Matt would post it like once every other year. Yeah. Yeah. It's a 92
He's had it since new it is the biggest pilot car and it is it is returning to the earth in real time
It's basically it's probably what hank movies 9 11 was based on. Yes. It's probably I love it
You know, he had the interior redone like two years ago. So the seat he definitely could called catskin. It's like that
But he drives it. It's not like this thing just sits. He drives it daily
Yeah, the headlights are so faded that they definitely can't let light out of them
He has the softbox edition
So early cars are raw as shit. No windows. No ac. I mean and they drive like
They're really bad
The gen one and a half is where I like that's a 95 and that's where they went to the rear exit exhaust instead of the side
They sound more like gyados or r8s than they do ups trucks. They also added glass windows a hard roof and air conditioning
But they're still they also added three things that come in almost every vehicle on the planet
Glass windows
And you don't get your calf burn, which is like a real thing with viper
No, it actually is a really get burn. Yeah, and then you know and they get newer the the 2015 to 2019 era
They're like almost nice, but they're still pretty raw in terms of long throw clutch. Yeah big
Tremac shifter those like acr extremes are trading for crazy money. So I don't really like that. They're a lot
Like there's the lot to look at to to be around and to be in and you know, have you driven one on track? Yeah, I have
They're fun. They feel like closer to a race car than a lot of street cars
But I here's the mistake. I did it back to back. It was shelby gt 350 r versus viper acr
And if I didn't care about the ultimate lap time and I just wanted to have fun at track day
The gt 350 r sounded better. It was more playful
It was much more comfortable
And I'd rather spend time lapping a track in the shelby than the viper
But if someone tells me they got a viper, I go, yeah, okay, I get it. Yeah
Yeah, this one back on the show again Mitsubishi 3000 gt
Yeah, they kind of are for they look so cool. They were like a Gran Turismo icon. How about this?
They're also really heavy and don't handle well team dodge stealth rt. Yeah, same thing. Yeah, I know
But I like that wing they did the sick
Okay, I like that I could see that's like that's like the clark kent glasses
I thought they were different cars for a couple years
I mean that whole tsm era was so confusing
Because you're like, wait, I don't get it like that's american, but that's not and that was also like during the era where people
The fuck's an eagle. Yeah
I forgot about eagle. Yeah, the eagle town which was basically
Tlips tsi ealtown tsi. I got back in the day in high school. I took whatever I was driving
I guess it might have been my Subaru to the dealer
For service and I got a Plymouth laser as a loner insane
Which is the the Mitsubishi fucking eclipse but as a Plymouth
Do you realize like how many do you realize how many cars just got sold to us as japanese?
Because like we'll just rename it something american. It's like coming here and being like your name's now johnny
My first car the sidekick was a mercury villager
nautica edition
Which is a minivan sounds rich. There was the was the Nissan quest, but with a mercury badge on it
And it was those fashion house collabs where it was not a good clothing
Right, so I had I had blue it was blue over white
With nautica crests on there. That's kind of hot. Tell me nothing. It's kind of hot. That sounds pretty sick
My first car was an minivan too. I was flat people
This is some seriously
Yeah, I had a my parents gave me a hand me down dodge caravan that had gotten rear-ended and was just taped closed in the back
Yeah, that I would that I loved because I could throw my BMX bikes in it and head to the hills. That's all really matter. Yeah, but uh
Yeah, I uh
Minivans are like a weird first car in that era
I honestly, I would say I loved it. I would say a minivan's more reckless than like a kind like I had a hot hatch as my first
right a mark 3 gti, but uh
Like a minivan's almost more reckless because like that's like yo, you're you could kill seven people
You're packing all your friends and then I degenerate shit a high was that guy 100% like I I went from the
I was I my mom's minivan, but from there I went to sports car
I was much more dangerous as a human in the mini hundred percent in the mid for sure
So the rule for me was I was only allowed to have two friends in the car. Yeah, I couldn't pack it out
Which of course I never listened to yeah, I didn't I didn't pay attention to anything like all right
Moving on the list we've got um jaguar xj2 20. I don't know I drove that it was pretty cool
But it like fits that time period for me. I don't know just look at it. It's sick. I think they're pretty awesome
I can't like I've never driven one, but I think they're awesome. Somebody just wrote 60 70s chargers a muscle car is
Fitting their own category. That's the right category. I remember the first time driving a stock. Um
It's like I guess it was a chivalrous ass or whatever at
Ingolstown Raceway doing the quarter mile. They belong to funk master flex. Fuck. Yeah
And he threw me the keys and he's like take it to go have fun. Was it actually stock? No stock. Yeah stock and like
after
I don't know 50 miles an hour. It was like the scariest experience in my life because it was just floating all over the place
It felt like the steering was doing nothing
I was afraid to come out of the throttle because I wasn't sure what was gonna happen
And I got out of the car being like yeah, I never want that experience again
Dude, you know what the first I don't know 56 years of my
Driving life early career, whatever the oldest cars I had driven were all american cars couple muscle cars couple whatever
The first time I when I came out here and deeter heins let me drive his
1955 gall wing
I was like what the fuck is I had driven a bel-air and shit. I was like this is the same year
What and then I drove a Porsche 356. I was like real brakes like precise steering like what the fuck
Did nobody ever leave Detroit and try and the answer is no they never tried any of this shit
When I first moved to california, I was like I need american car right and I only driven german cars
So I had the mind's the exact opposite. I'm like I'd only really driven european or japanese cars at that point
And like all right. I'm gonna get myself this cool. I found this like it was like an old Pontiac
It was a station wagon. I don't even remember what it was
It was like a 50 60s era wagon and I go to test drive it and I bring it back to the guy and I'm like
Hey, dude, bro
There's something wrong with the brakes
Like there is something seriously wrong with the brakes like you need to get that looked at like you shouldn't let anyone else drive it
I eventually just realized that's how the brakes work. Yeah, and like but having gone from what I was used to to like that error car
I was like, this is horrible. This garbage. It's like people just dealt with that for I know you ever read on safe at any speed
Yeah, I really if you have it. I really recommend it. It's wild. Yeah, very hard to find right now actually
Really? I had to spend $200 on a copy. You can get it on an e-book. I have to download a digital. I have it
I just didn't know it was like it's worth a lot of money. It's very hard to find. Yeah. Yeah
Who's what what conspiracy theories trying to keep that off the shelf right now? No, I don't know
I have to say ebay alerts and pay a bunch of you remember when he just ran for president every year
This man ran for president every year for I don't know forever
He probably was on he probably was running for mayor this year
Honestly
Ralph nator made good points, but as a car guy you like have to hate him
No, but if you read on safe at any speed you're like you have to hate him. He went after the corvair
Almost this is really dangerous like 25 pages of a 200 page book all of which is bananas. Yeah, like
The number of people that died in the late 50s by being impaled on the fins of Cadillacs was like a lot
At the same time more than you think
Are kids going for footballs that ended up with a tail fin to the gut like but this is the same error where they
Offered a basket that you would put in the back window to put your baby in
Above the engine of the corvair like no one thought about safety. Yeah, like what a time to be a lot
American car company cars from 1950 to 1975 underneath were exactly the same
There was no development going on. What's so hard?
I remember we used to sit in the jump seat of my fucking uh of station wagons. Yeah
Oh, yeah, that was sick
My parents would just take out the back seat of the minivan and just let me play legos on the floor and just drive me around
Like the li like nothing bad happens there. That's sick. I love that. No whatever crashes on the li back to the list
mid 2000s Pontiac gto
Nobody thought those were that
Dreaming of those. I think no a fucking hero car is that I think if you thought
Holden's were cool because you followed like australian supercar
The that was pretty subbious sub variance. Okay, that might happen to be a sub. I belong to
Rich, uh, I would say you're a sub in more than one way that car is as good as it looks
Supers on this list a lot. A lot of people dropped the super on here. Um, I'll tell you I'll say I'll say a nice thing about the gto
Talk about a gto tv r to scan that's that is on a sub list
The gto was built better than the f body cars or the mustangs of that particular time because it was australian and they gave a
Fuck I think the gto is as good as it looks. It's fine. Fine and it looks
Fine like it's all just like like it's as whatever as whatever could be if they just called it the fucking
Commodore or the minaro or whatever the holden was and you didn't think of it and as a gto
It would have been like better. Yeah
It's all you got. We also have c4 corvette
C4 sucks. They they do suck
except
They almost universally drive better than they look
Like later cars like if you drive a later c4 like a 95 or 96 the steering is like really good
I gotta say I would buy a c4 01 The steering is shockingly good. What is the throttle body injection thing called again?
tuned port injection. Yeah tpi that's from the era where they would put things like
intercooler or like abs
Yeah, like on the bank bonneville had the abs on the wheels
So sick you can do a whole show about cars named after places. They'll never be yeah, which we did back in the day
That's a good one
But uh, so early c4s were pretty fucked up by the end
They were they put up numbers the zr ones for fucking 25 grand used are a serious performance car
That's a cool car. It is I would buy a c4 01 for 20 grand. They're pretty cool
Engine developed by mercury marine and lotus like pre-rad for for that kind of money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
Um, I think time will probably be reasonably kind to the later ones actually
But I drove a callaway twin turbo
Like an 87 c4
It made
475 horsepower and 600 pounds of torque at 5100 rpm. The red line was 5300
It was like a diesel. It was the weirdest
Doug Nash 4 plus 3. Oh, yeah, the
It was like driving a semi truck. It's so odd
I want to do a whole story on callaway because I think it's pretty incredible. Hey, Pete. No
He's all right. He's like, it's a good time. Just the wealth of what they've worked on was just yeah, yeah, all right, so
We we're moving into the next round, which is where we basically break this list and we've got
Coming from your list with the warring your list nsx my list. Do we ever
Decided to vote. Oh, yeah. So what was so wait wait?
causey um
e30 m3 and uh r35 r35
Can't say I think the r35
I think the r35 is losershit
What do you mean? Like I think that go moves on to the most disappointing because oh, yeah, yeah, yeah
Because it's just it's the car that is for chasing numbers at the expense of feel
And that is losers. I will say I agree having not driven a stock r35. I have never heard a good review
Yeah, I've never heard of anyone be like there's a has a massive fan base
There's a massive fan base around the car. Is it just drag racers who are into it?
Like certainly runway runway guys are into it. They love that some track
So really into it big horsepower if you really care about your lap time like you could be into it
Doesn't seem like a car. I would want to drive on track. I know you drove a race prepped one
That was doesn't do it for me on track. I don't really care. Yeah, I find it inspiring really
Yeah, so that's what that would be. Okay. That works. Okay. So now are there two others either from one of our lists that we feel like
We want to put forward or from the patreon list that we would go there
So like for example your s l like does like the slr move forward does the
Like we keep bringing up the super. Does that move forward does
Yeah, I would yeah
What's our list of five we got the three you got any other two?
I mean
you could
You could put a mark for super in there, but but
I think all 90s JDM
That's when you get so boring categories, but the GTR doesn't fit in there. So you north america. What do you mean?
Oh, all right. How about this? I would also
Well, do you think the GTR fits in that boring category? My GTR makes 600 horsepower and rules
But stock I mean I've driven a stock one. They're nice. They're pleasant. They're not like amazing. No, but they're pleasant. Yeah
Um, I think the e30 deserves to move on
E30 m3 as well. Okay. Yeah. All right, because there's not it's sort of beyond hope
Once you change the entire engine. I think right now too. It's peak hero. Like it's a peak hero car
Yeah, they're like a 100000 dollars and like not interesting mine. Yeah, I sold it for 75
It had like 150,000 miles on that's wild. Yeah, like it was not a low mileage cream puff
It was nice, but it was it doesn't like look or drive like that type of money
Yeah, that's like, I mean I have that gripe with 9 11's I was just talking to a buddy about
like mclarenz this morning and you're like
You could buy a mclaren like a 675 LT for
225,000 and that thing looks like a fucking video game
It looks like a hypercar or you can buy a gt3 that looks like a 50,000 car for 400,000 bucks
Yeah, you're like it's kind of a crazy. Yeah. Yeah, well air cooled 9 11's is the best
250 grand you could spend on 125,000 driving experience. Yeah, you know it's 125,000 for a great one
Well, I used to love your thing about e36 m3s. They're all worth 8,000
It's my favorite people yell that at me out of car window
It's my favorite take because I always was like certain cars like do not
Meet the expectation like you could be like, you know your spider rs and stuff like drives like it's worth every penny
The 360 drives like it's worth 80,000. Yeah, it's so fun
E36 m3
8,000 bucks. Yeah, the best he says it's so much very bad. I thought he was the one that came up with it
And I I said that and he's like no no I gotta give that
Yeah, I said that a long time because I drove the best one. I drove the bmw's museum
Kept and prepped light weight. It had 915 miles on it and it felt like a car you'd find on crets list
Like 40
The headliner was fucking saggy
It smelled like you know fucking crayons like the door card fell out a little bit the brakes were mushy
This sucked
When I was at the outing museum, they let me drive a car and the head the headliner was sagging and I was like
Wow
It's like yeah, good
All right, so you got your five. No, we have four. Oh, shit. We need we need to add one to it
What what did something almost make the cut was there anything from the list of that the anyone else brought up?
No, I'll I'll bring back the slr
I think as for me slr super
Are two ones that because that was 450,000 new
depreciated down to about 250 for five or seven years and is now
Back to above where I forgot that car existed. Yeah
Like it's a forgettable car when you said the word Mercedes mclaren. I was like, oh, right
I forgot that was like a big deal when it came it was yeah, it was and it stinks. You don't want to point out
Elephant in the room nobody
Put like air-cooled 9-11's on the list
I was I thought you would because I know you have a feeling about early 9-11's even the shitty ones are kind of fun to drive
Yeah, no, I think they're not worth the money, but they're like not bad
I think an air-cooled 9-11 of any year offers a unique driving experience compared to anything else that isn't an air-cooled 9-11
I was surprised no one brought it up because they are a bit like overpriced last night
I had a dream that I traded something for a 912 and I woke up disappointed and the 912 is the least exciting
Of the 911 and I was still disappointed that that hadn't happened. I'm doing a nine couple 912's. They're not great
Just save a little extra. All right, so what's what's our fifth? What's our fifth piece here? SLR?
You want to throw the SLR in? I feel like I mean it's out of the super. Yeah, I don't know
I haven't driven an SLR so I can't comment, but I have driven many Supras
If you've driven a E 55 Mercedes, yeah, imagine that but you're sitting on the rear axle. That's what it is
That's a really good example
Basically what it is like like shack bought an E 55 and then took it to west coast customs and had it modified
So he actually sits on the back seat with a I love that and they use that as the prototype for that is an SLR
Being a non Mercedes fanboy except for like four cars. I I agree
It's the only car gordon murray's ever worked on that isn't good. Did you? Ooh, that's a good one. That's a good
Gordon Murray's one bomb
Everybody gets a brick and that's his yeah, that is definitely. Wow. That's that's a good selling point. Have you always been a Mercedes guy?
I'm not a guy. I like mercy. I think Mercedes makes it. I think I think Mercedes on all of its existence
Up until recently made exceptionally well made cars while I'll say this I like sports cars
I think Mercedes are cool cruisers. Yeah. Yeah. I would love a sl you know coop
I had a 129. It was cool for a daily
Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I feel like my pension for like really
Appreciating except Mercedes my life comes with lower back pain like as I get older
I'm like, oh that looks really good. I never noticed that before the other day. I was just shopping
123s, which is just insane. I mean if you're talking about lower back pain sidebar old guys
You need to have the seat rebuilt because it's it'll be like this because they they they get a little sloppy
Every car my grandfather ever owned he would rip out whatever interior was in it. Yeah, just stick in rickaros
Which like
Which is cool. Who's your great, which is cool on certain era cars. Yeah, but he would do it to like a lasso
Like he did not care. He was like, I just want to be comfortable. He would go from like a bench to like
Yeah, he would do that and he would stick a good radio in and my dad would just be like, oh, grandfather. So so trashy
Yeah, I like that though. Because like I don't drive my gti that often because the seat hurts my back. Yeah
I replace seats in cars a lot. Yeah, I do a lot my grandfather's reason I'm into cars real quick
Oh, yeah, he had a e-type rags to riches story and he spent all of his money on cars
Didn't pay any of his taxes and then the iris took all his cars. It's pretty much the story
Hell yeah, what a g something like that. Yeah, you know italians. That's how I remember how they ride fucking
Live hard live hard crash out
Yeah, pretty much. He only had money for 10. They don't know what they don't know
He only had 10 he only had money for 10 years of his life
So he was poor his whole life and then he made money for 10 years and when he was gone
He left none of it like like he was just like i'ma use all of this. That's I mean, that's economically efficient
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not if he's not going. Yeah, it's a wheels grease. That's why I don't have kids
Yeah burn right through it. Anyway, let's go. Yeah, exactly. Just use you got a trust fund for the cats and we're good
All right
All right, so we're moving forward. We got our five cars. Take a little quick break. Come back and rank them. Okay
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Let's start by ranking them. I think we'll start with fifth place because it's just more exciting that way
DeLorean's in fifth place to re-relist the cars DeLorean
E 30 m3
s o lor McLaren nsx
And r35 gt r35 gt. I'm putting bottomless means it's like not as bad. Yeah
I'm going i'm DeLorean in last place because no one expected it to be that good
Sure expectations are pretty low
Do you but that's because you grew up after the expectations? I feel like when I was a kid
Someone handed me that car and they said this is a Ferrari
Slash Lamborghini competitor and it's made by the irish
Right
For all and then if you had like more than two brain cells bouncing around you're like that's not good
So you know I literally shouldn't as a kid because I'm like but the doors do this
For the over 50 audience the DeLorean will be more disappointing than for the younger than 30 audience. Yeah, sure
But I'll yeah, I mean other cars on our list are probably more disappointing
When you own doors did you enjoy ownership because I still want a DeLorean I lied to myself for a long time
I liked a couple things about it, but I mostly lied to myself. I like that for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
No, I like that you're honest here. So yeah, why why not be honest?
I made money on it like not that that was the point
But I actually I I'm like the only person to ever make money out of the war
I think it's really important if you like cars to also be honest that the car you like isn't the best like
I really like outies. I know they're not that great
But I really like them. I don't know why I like them, but that's just what I'm into
Sure, and it's a fucking journey or whatever right? Yeah, move on like buy sell
The problem is what you never want to do is publicly if you're a figure
Publicly say I'm gonna keep this forever because then they keep giving you shit if you sell it or blah blah blah like nah
Yeah, I'm gonna keep this car until one day after I'm bored of it and then it will be on fucking bring a trap. Yeah 100%
Yeah, yeah
That could be tomorrow or I live in a different world than the two you guys do
I mean I've owned that 9 11 now for almost 20 years. I get I have my c5 core of f for 18 years
Yeah, I get it
But I just am not gonna if I keep the car for 18 years to keep it for 18 years
But I'm not gonna like publicly commit to it. Yeah, I didn't publicly commit to it
I said if I ever sell this check on me because like I probably needed the money for something
Well, you shouldn't say that shit. Yeah, I probably wouldn't need the money for something. Have you seen? He'll never he'll never sell stuff
Yeah, if life is good, I won't sell because like my thing is if I don't use stuff
I sell it me too scato could will go
I mean
Shit the last time you drove that 360 is probably when we did that episode because I lost the key for three months
But I'm just saying like you're like you're you're more you're more collector mentality than like user
I'm like if I don't use it I get I just I don't if I don't drive a car for three or four months
It's got to go. Yeah, I just own too many cars
I own enough cars to almost drive a car every day of the month
So it's like even when I try to drive my cars a lot too many
There's always a problem
So it's like I was driving the r2 the other day and then I was like oh shit. There's an issue or then I'm like
The whole reason is not having over 1011 cars. You need a guy at least. Yeah, you need a full time. Yeah
Yeah, I know guys got a place that can help you with this but uh
No, but between my wife and I we have eight and that is the hard max
Oh, really?
It's honestly like too much. We can't it is I'm not complaining, but it is actually work to drive all the cars
Yeah, you I do the same shit and the problem is you need like a logistics coordinator at that point. I have a staff
Yeah, yeah, see because I'm like with my dealership. I can't wait to hire a mechanic
Because then there's like little bullshit on my cars that I'm like
I've needed to change the front tires on my car just because like sizing wasn't correct forever
But I just never have like an hour to sit at the shop and swap tires
It's the tires still on my Ferrari. All right. Let's get it. We're ranking this list
So you think the DeLorean's at the bottom. All right, we shouldn't debate this much about fifth place
We should just accept that we're already I'm pretty hungry. So I could be like swayed on pretty much anything
I think the DeLorean lives like dead smack in the middle. All right
I think it's number three. What's at the bottom? All right somewhere in that area. What's the least disappointing of your disappointments?
I would go r35 then because like it's fine. It's just like a fine car
I think that could be in the middle for me because it does the thing they
No one ever said this is the most engaging car ever. They said this is the nerberg ring
Assaulting when it was coming out though. It was put up against the 9 11
It no longer is it's no longer compared to that but when it came out everybody and that was their benchmark
Everybody was benchmarking against the 9 11. So I think from my perspective
I always saw that as a 9 11 fighter and it was it couldn't be farther. Yeah, it's in me
It's like closer to like we said a Bentley continental gt like it feels more like that just big it drives
It's kind of quick like it is like this like I wouldn't go I wouldn't pick it to go on track or to
Go rip around on the windy road
I mean to me the slr is the most disappointing because it was the most expensive the most exotic
It had McLaren in it. They were at the time, you know, not making road cars, but they're making the f1
They made they made the f1 before they did for the one
I don't know. I had a lot of expectations
dynamically
For that slr and as it turns out it was essentially a drag car. Yeah, having not driven one
I'm just and I took a drag racing was kind of fun except for the overheating part
Having not driven. I'm just going to agree because I feel like at a certain price point a car should deliver exactly
Yeah, what you expect. Yeah, I'm like magic. So here's a driver for this was more
Expensive, okay, then a Carrera gt at the new. Yeah new. So fuck that put it at the end
Well, shouldn't that be number one then? Yeah
I'm arguing it for
What else would be tied for number one
Only the e30 m3 because it drives like it's 12 grand and it costs 10x that to get a good one. Yeah
Yeah, I think e30. I think the e30 is number one for me
Because it's so because it's it's so it's not even just slow. It's like
Here's here's why it's high on the list
But if it was still 12 grand it wouldn't be on it
But right now it is the car that people think is the greatest car from that era
Here's why it should be high on the list is because as matt said you can get a nice
325 is which is essentially the same exact fucking car for 25 000 bucks with more torque. You're just spending more money
For body work for the cool part. Yeah
That's it. Yeah, that's a good point
And I love them. I still so if that maybe that's number one the slr is number two. No, I do slr number
number one either any number two
gtr number three
Or de laurine
The nsx though. I think nsx should be number three. I actually think nsx should be number two
I think nsx should be number three because it is a really great car
It's a great car and it's actually like I would if I had an nsx and e30 m3 parked in the garage together
I would drive the nsx more because it's a better like the e30 feels buzzy on the freeway
It's not good at high speeds like it's not overly comfortable
Whereas the nsx is a fucking legendary car to just like drive up the 405 without it's just not good at the thing that you think
It's gonna be good at
If you if I was to close my eyes and you were to explain to me the nsx
You're basically explaining the link in town car. Like you're like you're like it's really good. It just cruising up the highway
No, no, no, it's good at cruising up like um
Like the 101 like it's got some sweepers and like you might take it east coast. It's a good merit
It's a good. Yes merit park park merit park. It's a merit parkway killer. Yeah. Yeah, which if you think about japan like
Highways with turns. Yeah, nice car. Yeah, not exactly canyon road. Just flowing. We're not taking it to the togei
I mean if you compare it against all the other 91s, it's fine
It's just that if you revisit it with today's eyes the slow steering and all that kind of stuff is like
More antiquated than people talk about. Yeah, so I would go nsx number three for sure. Okay
So then we just we went backwards, but let's what do we have 45
So it's it's basically delorean or the gtr. I think the delorean is
More disappointing than the gtr put up a fucking number
That's why I do I think you're still very good at something. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was saying gtr
Is number five for sure because it's a is a good car
It just is like not as visceral as everyone wanted it to be
All right, it can handle 2000 horsepower. So that does and it could go fast around a lap
It could be daily drivable. It's all just like compromise. So let me get let me lay this out here
And coming in in fifth place
The r35 gtr. Yes coming in in fourth place
We have the delorean. Yeah, c delorean original
Coming in in third place. We have the accurate nsx. Yes coming in in second place the bmw
e30 m3
And coming in in number one the mercedes mclaren collaboration
The slr the only car gory Murray's ever built that he I'm okay with that
Yeah, I'm okay with that
There's a world where I could almost flip the whole thing on its head and say like delorean maybe belongs in number one
But I think that's my age group. No, I mean the only way you could really continue to argue
Is is we had all the cars here to drive them and like really come to a conclusion
Yeah, like, you know just based on sitting around a table
Yeah, trying to remember stuff that we drove 10 plus years ago. Yeah, yeah, when was the last time you drove an slr?
I mean, I haven't driven one since probably 10 years. Yeah, probably 10 years, but it was shitty then
Yeah, yeah, no it wasn't gotten better. You've driven more cars that were better. I have five speed automatic Mercedes
Gearbox has gotten better since that actually slips worse now. By the way that day I drove that and a 360
And I went I eventually bought a 360. Yeah, which was at the time a fraction of the cost of the of the slr
Yeah, like drove both those for the whole day doing the exact same thing. There's still a quarter of the price of the slr
And you're getting a much better driving car and way better sound. We used to rent them at gotham dreamcars
Yeah, the slr's I drove them a lot
Oh, wow that first to get a ticket video with me and rob ferretti back in the day
I'm driving an slr and in the full video
We choose which car we do and this is oh six I go I'm gonna take the slr because I fucking hate that thing
I remember that it's in the full super speeders video that never makes it around just me and the sideburns, dude
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well anyway, all right. Well boys. Thanks for coming out making the list all the time
Five most disappointing
Yeah, I don't know disappointing most overhyped
Overhyped is it's not overhyped with the and by the way in five years from now
We could do this exact same show and I think only a few cars would show up on it
Because they're just I think the perspective always continues to change. That's why I'm happy you brought the slr out because I forgot about it
I didn't even think about that. I completely forgot about it like e 30 m3
I feel like is in the conversation people are talking about
It right now because it's a peak car
It's probably on more t-shirts for sale right now at zoomies than other than skylines, you know
Frank ocean and yeah exactly right. It's become really really really cool. Yeah, didn't someone just like give uh, what's his name?
Oh, yeah, uh
DJ Khaled wasn't yes
Jay z. Yeah redid his original something like that. Yeah here just to to to throw out one at the end
The contextual conversation of driving a car at the launch versus later
Yeah, the current supra the mark 5 supra. I went to the launch. It was at summit point. I was like, ah, it's pretty cool
Yeah, it's nice not bad. Yeah, it's a you know ghost stops and turns okay
Two months later road and track performance car of the year 12 car comparison test
heinous
It was heinous when you drove it back to back with a bunch other stuff the back to back. Thank you completely uncompetitive
I was I was never like a big corvette guy and then I got to drive a 06
C606 back to back with a bunch of different 9 11's and I was like
This thing's really you know, I was gonna say like the you said the talking about cars that you drive
For the launch versus like like having for a bit. Yeah, I think the c8
Corvette lived that for me like when I drove it. I was like meh
Whatever, it's fine. And then we had one at Hoonigan. So I got to like drive it often and keep it for a couple days
And I was like, wow, I really like great car. Yeah, awesome. I don't love it like it's not a car
I would buy but I'm like I find it's great card recommend though. Yeah if someone was like
I want to buy a car for under a hundred grand. That's a lot of fun and I can also like drive to the movie theaters
Like that's yeah last year performance car of the year. We had the Mustang GTD and the ZR. Well is that thing?
Same as the Supra by itself. It's the it's crazy compared to a zr1 garbage. Yeah, I know interest
Yeah, I mean really like it like embarrassingly. ZR1 is a fucking weapon
It is a it is one of the nuttiest cars ever built and the
The GTD feels heavy. Yeah, the zr1 is like a McLaren 750 with better rear traction
Which one might argue is worse, but like like it's fucking I got to drive the zr1 at kota
I think you 176 77 on the back straight. I did 181. Did you really on the dash not gps?
But 181 on the dash so and a McLaren 750 every 176 on the dash and I wanted to throw up
Yeah, that car made me want to puke. It's so the zr1 is insane. I texted him. I'm like, how is it?
He's like, I almost vomited it. I was like, it's that good. He's like, no
I don't know. I'm actually the zio 6 is the one to have like the enough power where you really feel like you're going
But it's not like that. Yeah, the zio is riding a rocket one of those things where you're like
Why do you make this? Yeah, I tell one needs so I took, you know, and we did performance car of the year they sent
Multimatic guys came with of course and they were kind of like bumming out their boss was down on them
Whatever the zio and I go have you guys been in the zr1? They go no, I can get him
And these guys I hit and they both did one of these, you know where they press their hands and they're like fuck me
I go, yeah, dude, you know, but also but also let's think about that right
Mustang versus Camaro not Mustang versus course. No, no, no, they did you know, they don't yeah
They don't even know the job as they could do. Yeah given starting with a Mustang. Yeah, not like they're not the four gt
Out for that. Yeah, but it's just like, you know, you need
If you had a day with a gtd and a racetrack, you'd go, this is awesome. It's a blast. It's amazing
But if you have it with both of those cars, you go, well, yeah, not so much
Yeah, I gotta say I made the mistake because I drove it at the zr1 at coda and I did not practice on the sim
So it was like so you're also learning the track. I was learning the track in a car that is entirely too much
Yeah, but that if you're gonna drive a car that fast, you have to know the track like the back of your hand
I could take that thing to button willow or streets or something like that laguna and pound some laps in it
But like it's too fast to fuck around. Yeah, like you can't you can't fuck around. Yeah
all right, so
producer nick asked me this question before you guys got here is there a car
A hero car for yourself that is so here so heroic
So just like goaded that you actually don't want to drive it because you know, it's gonna be trash. No
Yeah, no, there's no car where I would be so afraid of it
Disappointing me that I wouldn't want to try it
So I walked into this conversation having the kuntash be that that was the car for me as the kid and everyone's like
Uh, you everyone I've mentioned it. She was like, oh the car's not really that good. But now you have changed that
I mean, look, I'm just tall to ever really drive it properly. It's an old-ass design
It's it's an 80s car that was developed in the 70s. I mean like it's it it has its quirks
It's not it's not designed to be super
friendly
I think it's all very subjective too because if you talk to like a huracan owner who they might be like I drove a
Diablo or a kuntash garbage. It's like they they're driving like a you know, like a modern daily able super car
But if you're like a dude like you
I would say you're probably a perfect candidate for yeah, you you would think a kuntash was fine if you could fit
It wouldn't bother you at all. Like you're not trying to go set lap records somewhere. You're just trying to fucking have a sick car
Yeah, it's it's a it's a very nice thing. It really is because like for me
It's just not for you but like if I drove an f40
And I just heard it pop and bang and fucking make noises
Ever I don't give a shit. I can guarantee you would not be just no like you know what I mean
Yeah, I think that there's certain cars like that and I think that's where your issue with the you know
Modern Lamborghinis are where like the experience of just being in it is enough. Yeah, like
Pagani Zonda was one of those cars for me like I just got the street drive it and I was like this is
I drove the utopia last year for road and track the new Pagani
Dynamically, it really isn't all that it's just about it red lines at 6200 rpm if for fucking three it does it's the amg twin turbo 12
It's got no red line bunch of torque. That was my problem with the lotus is yeah, vorra and the whatever this is that but but you like
Speedo moves faster than the tack
it's like
Sports car that rest is 6200 rpm like get me out of the Pagani is it's a it's a steampunk thing
You know it's just about being in this weird, you know submariney thing. All right. Oh boys. Thanks buddy. That's nicely done
Nicely done. Shit. I'll be back. Yeah. See you soon. Bye
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About this episode
Season four kicks off with Matt Farah and Vin/Scotto debating “overhyped hero cars,” grounded in their own recent drives and track time. The conversation ranges from iconic disappointments like the DeLorean—“It’s terrible at like mobbing canyons and it’s terrible at bumper to bumper traffic”—to supercar letdowns such as the Ferrari SF90’s boring feel and rapid price collapse. They also weigh why modern “fast and precise” cars can lack personality, and why some cars only make sense with the right driving mode or expectations.
Firing Order is BACK for Season 4 of Very Vehicular, and we’re bringing you an absolute heater of a first episode with veteran motoring journalist and podcaster Matt Farah (The Smoking Tire) as well as Our Cousin Vinny: Vin Anatra. If you’re new around here, the aim of the show is simple: to form a definite ranking (which definitely isn’t just the opinions of whichever three lovable idiots are on that particular week), and this week it’s the most overhyped hero cars, that you wish you’d never met! Our hosts have decades and decades (and dec—) of seat time between them across a plethora of automotive heroes: from the pedestrian (ha) to the decidedly exotic! Stay tuned, to find out which one will top the list. Enjoy.
