144. The Pile Up EP27: Total Recalled

It's Wednesday, it's Wednesday, that's the day.

It's time for the pile up.

The pile up.

It's only Wednesday if you're really listening to it, on the day it's released.

Which if you're a number one fan, you definitely are.

Yeah, it's recorded in the future.

And then by the time it comes out, that's the past.

And the whole thing.

This is the past.

It's a pendulum.

We start at a point in the future, and then it gets this slingshot boomerang type thing.

That throw and stick of yours is done boomerang on us.

And then it comes back around, and then it moves by, and it's like for the just a brief moment, it's the present.

And then it's the past again, and then we have to start all over.

It's so hard to be in the present.

Oh my God, it just like, you know, just can't be in the present.

Oh, it's so, yeah.

Don't just, just kind of focus on your breath.

That's the beginning.

It's a lot easier to do in the winter.

Do what?

Well, I can see it.

Oh, when it's cold out, it's easier to focus on your breath.

That's a good point.

What if you're breathing underwater?

I mean, just exhaling underwater.

God forbid you're underwater when it's cold out.

I mean, why are you designing someone's nightmare?

No, I know.

That's sorry.

Let's back up.

That's terrible.

Terrible.

Let's back that up.

Well, happy 2026, everyone.

Yeah, happy new year.

Hope you had a good one.

Yeah, hope you, hope you did it up.

If you have any funny, crazy, wild, new year stories for us.

Or if you just have any, I sat on the couch in my socks and underwear.

Stories also will take us.

Yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead, lay it on us.

Yeah, we're curious.

We want to know about you, the listener.

Wow.

I didn't know we were going to survey like that.

But you know, I'm in, I'm in for it.

So if you could send in all of your personal details, we'll figure out what to do.

We've heard people are selling the shit out of that stuff.

Out of personal details.

Yeah.

We're just looking to make a little extra coin.

We're just going to go downtown.

Email, Adriana.

Yeah.

Here's what everybody did on New Year's Eve.

I got phone numbers.

Well, we got some stuff to talk about today.

What do you got?

I was going to talk about the Chevy Citation.

Real piece of crap.

Oh, really?

Real piece of crap.

You said I would be pleasantly surprised.

Well, that's not what Motortrend said in 1980.

Now, I was a car of the year.

No, you're exactly right.

You're exactly right.

It's such a huge fall from grace, but I feel like for why?

Because in the end, like, they got car of the year.

And then they're like, they're trying to, Chevy like, sorry, you know, cut to the end.

And Chevy is like trying to distance themselves from the citation.

But like, it was car of the year.

You got the award.

I mean, I get it.

Can't sell the car anymore.

Yeah, it's crazy how some of these.

So do you think it's the magazine's fault for saying such a crappy car was car of the year?

Or do you think there's something that happened in the maturing of this model of car?

Like what went wrong here?

I don't want to say anything about the UAW work.

I don't know how it got there, though, like the people testing the car on what that YouTube video,

I think it was like, there was paint on the trim.

And then there was like the other car, the smog pump pulley fell off,

which is like, we know it's those three little bolts.

Like you have to remove the pulley.

So they're not on there like with super lock tight because you have to mount the pulley.

And then I'm sorry, mount the air pump, then put the pulley back over it to cover the mounting one mounting bolt.

So like, I'm not surprised, but it's funny that.

These were cars that were sent out to media for testing.

So it's like, what I mean to by saying that is like, I'm not saying that Union laborists were like,

we're just going to build a shitty product.

Like I'm wondering how it came down from the top to be like, okay, so we're going to need to shave off of a tenth of a second.

Because like what the, what the.

I'm getting a little worked up here.

You keep going.

I love it.

I'm here for it.

What the reviews in overall, I mean, granted, we're, you know, we're just a few minutes in here.

There's a lot to talk about.

Yeah, there's a lot to talk about.

I'm trying to stay like, you know, 50,000 feet view here.

Okay.

Stay up there girl.

Is that like they were, this line was repeated like, but it was a cheap car.

So it was built poorly.

That's not what Honda does.

Yeah.

I was like, is that how that works?

The more you just rank the price down, you just spend less time on it.

I guess I, I guess I get that in like a shop owner, one person thing, but how do you do

that across the entire manufacturing processes?

So why, but, but there is, you know, there is some lore about the quality of GM cars around

that time.

I'd say the big one following that.

Do do expound on that.

I can't actually, I'm not going to.

Oh, why?

Well, because, because I asked you because it predates my existence.

Oh, okay.

So it's not, I can speak to in the nineties when the clear coat and the base was coming

off.

And I went to a tech college and one of the guys that I went with met somebody from one

of the plants in Ohio and the guy was like, Oh, we'd run out of primer and we'd just use

base coat as forever.

So it's like, Oh man, I, I don't know what like, that's what I mean.

Like I don't want to say anything about union labor.

Yeah, don't.

Yeah.

And that's what I mean.

Like I'm not saying that.

I just don't understand what happened.

Yeah.

Why?

What happened?

How did it, you know what I mean?

But there's like, there's a lot of variables probably.

Well, that first year that it came out, they sold 800,000 11 and they had three factories

with three shifts working.

So they were working around the clock to produce it.

So maybe it was one of those things where you're like, shave off a 10th of a second.

Don't tighten those bolts down.

I was told by one of my mentors that when Chrysler couldn't keep up with the demand for

the PT Cruiser, they were putting like non-DOT approved seats in them just to like get them

out.

Oh, did they get busted?

I don't know what happened.

Whoa.

Maybe they just were out there.

I don't know.

They're still out there.

I wonder if you could find one and then you could sue them.

I don't know.

This late in the game?

Yeah, I don't know.

Probably not.

I don't know.

Listen, if you're a lawyer and you know anything about that.

Don't do that.

I'm just curious.

I'm not going to sue.

I'm just wondering.

Geez.

That just seems like a crazy thing for a huge car company to do.

Have you heard of dieselgate?

Oh, was that VW?

Yeah.

And they, did they say that Jetta had more MPG than it did?

I think it was different or different amount of smog like pollutant, you know, right out

the tailpipe.

The thing said, it clears this and then they, it was like they programmed some part of the

computer to, to do, to say something else and then I think it was like, maybe it was

designed that after the fact, after a certain amount of time that went away.

That's not smart.

So that they would pass regulation and then it would, yeah.

And then it would just go back to what it actually was.

Well, it's because they weren't passing smog tests for people, you know, a few years out

or whatever.

Yeah.

So they were just like, let's just fudge this a little bit.

I guess so.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I mean, you're making me go on record about that.

No, it's fine.

Yeah.

Listen, I don't really have a good.

Okay.

Well, now I've got a recording of you saying that.

What are you going to do with it?

That information?

I'm going to file it in somewhere, somewhere I'll never be able to retrieve it.

Okay.

So I don't, like I said, I don't want to blame anybody.

I just don't know.

I don't, I don't get it.

I mean, maybe we should dig in and that's some other time and see if there is like a

really something bigger there that we can actually learn about.

Right.

If it's the result of something like there wasn't a strike.

Well, that's what I'm wondering.

It wasn't, it seems like we would have found that in our research.

Yeah.

So I was just talking to a coworker about that today about how there was not supposed to

be a 65 Corvair because the G van was about to come out, but it wasn't quite ready.

And he was saying that he was like, I couldn't, he's like, I didn't know if it was a steel

strike or some other strike.

And so they had to pro prolong the other one because the other one couldn't come out.

So anyway, something like that.

So anyway, there might have been, that's, that's the thing there might have been tension

where it's like, you know, I don't know, not enough pay or something like that.

Or they were coming around the heels of a strike or coming off a strike.

Maybe they were being worked really hard.

They had three, they were going around the clock.

That's what's insane.

Yeah.

Three shifts a day.

Sure.

There's that.

I mean, that was a big thing at Ford was that he would hire guys to basically stay on

your ass on the line and facially intimidate you into working like that's, those are the

conditions.

Yeah.

But those are, those are things that, you know, made unions important to hire these big

guys.

So like there's a, there's a pretty good video on YouTube of an older black man who worked

there and talked about like, you know, these guys that would just come behind you and harass

you.

And that this one guy, you know, he's like, he's, he says something about how he let it

out in an Irish, like he described his yell or his, you know, he's like, as something

as Irish, you just watch his video, maybe I'll find the link for the show notes.

But he's like, I'm sick of this shit strike.

And that guy just like kept going from room to room and just rallying people up because

they were sick of the conditions.

Oh, okay.

There's basically being like strong armed into working and keeping the speed up.

We can't go too fast.

It's dangerous.

Right.

And for how long, you know, there's only so much that you can do.

So their turnover was huge.

Ford turned people over constantly because of those conditions.

So that's when they went to the $5 a day so they could get good people and get them to

stay.

But anyway, anyway, we are talking about the Chevy Citadel.

Well, this could, you're just joining us.

We're talking about the Chevy citation, deep cut into why would the build quality

suffer and that led us down a labor relations rabbit hole.

Yep.

And this is where we're at.

And it's just talking about Ford.

We just might have to dig deeper later.

It's true.

You know, it all comes back to Ford.

So the citation is a real piece of work.

Tell me about it.

Tell you about it.

So are you going to tell me about it?

Yeah, I was going to tell you about it.

Oh, I could tell you about it.

You know, as much as I've watched in the last 24 hours, I'll tell you about it.

Are you going to tell me that it was prone to rust?

No way.

After being carved the year.

Okay, this wasn't part of the story that did get me because these, these reports

are so short from the release of the car.

It was happened.

It happened right away.

You would think the car only lasted for five years.

That's what I mean, which is a really short run for a model.

You couldn't keep the car from rusting for five years.

That's what was happening.

That's what I'm wondering.

Like no primer.

It came rusted.

Just all base coat.

Forget the clear.

We don't have time.

What's going on?

They were two tones though.

Oh, which one of the

videos I said they should have used rust offender as the other tone.

That probably would have worked.

Yeah.

It was a cute little thing to add though in that time of like not very styled

cars, the car rusted out in five.

Little two tone five.

I think it started rusting out before the five years.

Oh, it's I think it started happening.

I would be pissed if I bought a $4,000 car.

Well, it was actually, it was 6,000.

I think that might be a loaded one though.

Yeah.

The interior trim and the connectors fell apart.

So it was another like any like connector, like, you know, like plastic

connectors, I think those, the plastic clips and stuff fell apart.

So some kind of whatever kind of plastic they use, it broke down very quickly.

That is disappointing.

That's really bad.

You know, the other thing was because you can never find those parts again.

You know, it's like, you know, clips.

It's pretty hard.

Yeah, it was a new car.

You know, the dealer, I guess at the time.

Yeah.

Now good luck.

I was okay.

So I wanted to say that I wish like I could get a time machine, like get a new

citation because we talk about how sporty it feels.

Oh yeah, it was sporty, but spacious.

But I don't want like a, I don't, I can't get a brand new one.

It needs to have like 10,000 miles on it.

So it's like not all, it says like broke in.

Yeah.

So first thing I want to do with the citation is get a fast food drive through.

Why is that?

It just seems like the poster child car for waiting in a drive through.

Yeah, it does kind of doesn't take deck blaring.

You know what that car looks like to me?

It looks like the hats that cab drivers wear.

Like they're a little taller at the back and they taper in the front.

Yeah.

Then are those called news boy caps?

Yeah.

Like newsies.

Yeah.

My grandpa would, my dad calls them go to hell hats.

I guess cause a cab driver wears them.

Cab drivers tell you to go to hell.

Go to hell.

I don't know.

Answer that.

But anyway, yeah, those cars look like that hat to me.

They do kind of look like that hat.

Yeah, don't they?

Especially the four, the four door, the sedan.

They came in a two door two, didn't they?

Yeah.

And then the, and then it looks like some of the X 11s are notch backs.

Can you confirm this?

It didn't have a notch back, but it had that little, that slick little

spoiler on the back.

It looks like a little duck tail.

Yeah, it does look sporty.

I think that it made me think that because I saw a total side view.

And so the, that spoiler on the trunk kind of gave it this notch back look.

I like the citation.

I think it's cool.

Well, speaking of the X 11, let's pop back to that real quick, because there are

some good factoids that I have.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Basically, one of the videos was selling it as like owning like a mini Corvette.

Now I said the citation was cool.

Well, and he said, this is why, because that X 11, the 1982 X 11 went

zero to 60 in 8.5 seconds.

And the Corvette at that time went zero to 60 in eight seconds.

Okay.

So, so it was only half a second slower.

I just want to say that I was reading a Corvette article and there's

a Corvette with a two and a half second, 60 zero to 60 time.

2.5.

But the current top Corvette, like we're going to talk about this in the

brain buster, but I have to tell you this.

Okay.

Oh my God.

Tell me is going like sub two seconds, zero to 60.

God, that must feel so crazy.

Right.

That's like your pulp pelvic.

Nothing to moving.

Like slingshot it.

Yeah.

Damn.

We're going to talk about it more in brain buster.

Yeah.

So listen, it comes out this Friday.

Yeah.

Fridays, the brain buster brain buster.

Quiz your mind with some stupid question that we're going to look up the

next time we don't know the answer to it either.

But it's the whole thing's fun.

It is pretty unlike this series.

This is a core litigation.

The show.

This you really got to get into.

Yeah, we're really, we're really into some deep cuts.

And you know what?

The citation is cool, but I'll say that my grandma had one and my grandma's

cool, but I guess like they're claimed that it's like a mini corvette against

the fact that my grandma, did she have an X 11 though?

No, the X 11 had that cowl induction hood.

No, grandma's looked like the hat that grandpa wore.

It was like light colored, you know, the X 11 looks sportier though, even

though I know it's pretty much the same body and it did have different suspension too.

It does look sporty.

It had like a high performance suspension.

You know, it looks like a less refined Beretta.

Well, that's funny that you should say that because the Beretta is what replaced

the citation, apparently.

I mean, the Beretta is way better.

The Beretta is immediately what succeeds.

Yeah, according to one video that I watched.

Again, I don't really know everything about this.

These are just some things that I heard through the grapevine.

Hmm.

And I know it was, it was also GM's first front wheel drive, transverse and car.

And because, you know, they were trying to compete with Honda, Mazda and Toyota.

You made, you made a misstatement.

No, I didn't.

Yes, you did.

What?

It was Chevrolet's first front wheel drive.

Okay, sorry.

Because the whole point of my statement is the old's Toro Nato is, is a GM car.

You can't say it's GM's first front wheel drive car.

It was Chevrolet.

It's still surprising.

Yeah.

That was quite a factoid that the citation is the first front wheel drive car for Chevy.

Yeah.

Because again, like, I mean, that's 80, 70s or, you know, 10 years earlier.

So like not crazy, but like, yeah, there's other front wheel drive vehicles previous to that.

Considering what Japan was doing, I mean, Japan just really nailed it with us having

the gas crisis.

And then what happened with the citation is they had what they had the four banger

Iron Duke, which sounds like, sounds, sounds like not a good engine.

What an unfortunate name for an engine, the Iron Duke.

It just, it's so bad.

I think it says everything it needs to say about the motor.

Just sounds loud.

Sounds heavy.

Sounds sluggish.

Yeah, it's, yeah, I think it's a slug.

Yeah.

And then they had the V six.

And so people want Chevy said the Camaro engine.

Was it?

Was it the V six Camaro engine?

I believe it.

I believe in one of the videos of the many videos I watched that it was also a

Camaro option.

Huh.

Well, um, that's unfortunate because Chevy thought that 70% of the people buying

citations were going to want the V six.

And then the second gas crisis hit and everybody wanted the Iron Duke.

And so they had people waiting, like they couldn't get rid of the V sixes that

they'd made.

And then they had people waiting in line to get the Iron Dukes.

God.

So that's also something that went bad.

They just, they didn't calculate it.

I wanted to put a Toyota 20R in my 67, like ages ago, because somebody

given me one and somebody like got on my case and was like, why don't you use

an American engine, use an Iron Duke.

And I was like, right.

An Iron Duke.

Why would I do that?

He was just mad that it was a Japanese engine.

I was like, it doesn't matter.

Yeah, well, some gear head was way into it and designed it.

Like, what are you talking about?

They know what they're doing.

You can't deny it.

Like the car company, like, especially the Japanese one, he tried.

You can't, I mean, the 20R is a hallmark motor.

It's not even a fucking joke.

It's not like I was like, oh, I'm just picking some rando motor.

Yeah.

20R has a history.

I don't know the history, but I bet it does.

And this was a junkyard guy.

I was quite surprised.

He was really.

Iron, get that Iron Duke.

Yeah.

Get the shitty American four cylinder just because.

Well, the Iron Duke also had problems.

If anybody begs to differ, go ahead and tell us about it.

Call on in right on in.

Apparently the Iron Duke rattled and shook.

No.

Yeah.

No.

Yeah.

Yes.

No.

It has good qualities.

It wasn't stable.

It has good qualities.

It wasn't stable at all.

They also had, this is pretty bad.

It makes me like a John Wayne.

Iron Duke.

Somehow it's like John Wayne paper, like doesn't take shit off anybody.

I don't know.

Yeah, it is kind of like a dog, doesn't it?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Some Cowboys dog.

Come here, Iron Duke.

Iron Duke is a weenie.

Wow.

Come here, I'm Duke.

It's a little wiener dog.

I was thinking of a cattle dog, but okay.

Yeah, sure.

A little, little.

You were thinking like a blue healer with a floppy ear.

No, I was thinking like a Australian shepherd.

Okay, more like some with the ones with the longer fur.

Oh, yeah.

And like the blue one, blue eye and one brown eye.

I would have never thought that about anything.

No, I don't know.

Just iron Duke.

Okay, well, fine.

Moving on.

You would call your dog Iron Duke.

No, I wouldn't.

But I thought that's where we were going.

No, I don't know.

Okay, you with your wiener dog over there.

I didn't name that dog anything but Duke.

It's like boy names.

All right, we're bringing this back to the citation.

Where's where I've talked about fords.

Now we're talking about wiener dogs of John Lane, kind of Australian

shepherd, a cowboy.

Another problem was is the transmission hoses were faulty.

Oh my God.

And they would set the car on fire.

Yeah, they would set the car on fire.

Not just faulty, like they didn't hold fluid and say your car a place.

So that was a problem.

That is a serious problem.

Like, was it on the exhaust?

Second of all, hoses.

Where are they back to the build quality?

Where are the lines?

Where are the hard lines?

Why do we have hoses?

What is a good point?

Like what?

That is you're buying a Detroit car and you're getting, I mean, maybe,

maybe a section was flex or something to make a certain turn.

Maybe, maybe, but man, what?

Yeah, I'm just surprised.

They're not metal.

That was the word that I heard being tossed around was hoses.

Same.

Yeah, same.

You know, again, we don't know for sure.

Maybe they are lines and maybe they were talking wrong.

Maybe that's how they got the price down.

Hoses now with no hard.

No, hang on.

How do you sell that?

Not with no hard lines.

Now with fully flexible hoses front to back.

Bend your car in any fashion.

See, that sounds like a deal.

Yeah, right.

I'm into it.

You sold me.

It's all about framing.

OK, sold.

I'll buy one.

It's all about framing.

I'm going to buy it right now.

There was also, let's see this.

Look, you did ask me a really good question.

You're like, can you imagine buying a brand new car for seven thousand dollars?

Oh, yeah.

And I said I tried, but no, I couldn't.

Well, it's just like it's not a surprise.

It's surprising to me.

I guess it's hard to fathom.

But like money did used to go a lot farther.

I was going to say that I do vaguely remember gas being like a dollar twenty nine.

Yeah, I remember it being 99 cents.

So there I don't think I don't think I remember that far back.

No, you wouldn't because you weren't born yet.

I don't know about that.

I don't think so, maybe.

Oh, yeah, I guess you were.

What am I talking about?

Never mind.

Because I remember it lingering around a dollar for a while.

Yeah, maybe it was a part of the country that you're into.

Like my mom would get five dollars, you know, all the time.

Yeah, I was five dollars a gas, two dollars a gas.

Now you have to get twenty.

It's the modern five.

Yeah, twenty is the modern five.

Yeah.

And to be able to buy a brand new car for six thousand seven thousand dollars.

But I'm like, was six thousand dollars a lot of money back then?

Well, I'm sure that it would have been.

Yeah, I mean, it's it's an item of value.

It's a brand new car.

Yeah.

But like Rizzo was saying his dad worked at a gas station and he was able to buy a house.

Yeah, I'm hung up on it, frankly.

You know what? You're hung up on that.

I'm hung up on it. Yeah, me too.

Anyway, that's also another.

My meager holdings in this tangible world.

There's another little tangent there.

Something else that they had problems with is it was unable to stop during heavy breaking.

This was another.

This was on my list.

Yeah, they locked up.

I had it written out a different way.

I think my.

How did you write it down?

Did you sell it?

My note says car went careening out of control under hard breaking.

Yes, or OK, that's actually a more accurate description of what was happening.

Careening was the description I got.

Yeah, careening, which to me says cars darting.

Yep, the back end would just like, I guess the back back brakes would seize up.

But did you see that review where they slalommed in the cones with it?

Yeah, got three wheel action.

Do you think that the driver was just a really good driver?

Oh, I'm sure.

Yeah, you put just a normal student driver behind that.

At the end of the video, their next review is the Omega, they drive nice cars.

They just happened to have to drive the 1980 car of the year.

That day is poor bastards.

Just that day.

So because of the brake situation, the situation.

GM got sued by NH.

That's just what they probably want to call it.

The brake situation.

Now there's a little heat over the brake situation.

And now we're getting sued by the NHTSA.

And and and mind you, it was dismissed.

No, they ended up winning.

GM won.

No, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

I thought they got it dismissed.

No, they fought it and at first they were like kind of recalling things under the radar.

And then NH, such a long acronym, NHTSA won.

And it became the most recalled vehicle up to date at that time.

Well, the Ford Explorer took care of that.

Yeah, but this was in let's just we're sticking with 1980s here.

OK, I don't know what year this was that that happened,

but it did become the most recalled vehicle.

I think that's like 82 or three.

Yeah, it wasn't very far into the and then they started being like,

and we've fixed all the probably like I watched the commercials.

But they've done a whole lot of improvement.

And then didn't they call it the citation to?

Yeah, they did.

They did as a marketing stunt, they did.

Yeah, the citation to in 1984.

You're not going to believe what we've cooked up because in 1983, the same car.

Part two.

You hated it before.

Now you're going to love it again.

Double.

I think it still had that horizontal radio that people weren't a fan of.

It's a vertical radio.

Oh, sorry.

Vertical radio.

Hey, you know what?

What other cars had a vertical radio care to guess what?

Corvette Corvette.

So Chevy was just bringing that around full circle.

See, it was it was talked about as being of just like a poor man's Corvette.

It all everything just comes back to the Corvette.

Yep, it does.

We're just going to circle the drain to the Corvette.

Chevy's Halo car.

Yep. Yep.

So people didn't like that.

They thought it was a bummer.

By 1983, sales were down to around 90,000.

Yeah.

So it went from almost a million.

It started at 800,000 and within five years fell off.

No, three years.

1983.

Three years.

Yeah.

I thought it was 85 that it was down to 90,000.

I have 1983.

I don't think that's right.

OK.

I think it took till 85 to get to 90,000.

Fine.

I'll go ahead and let you have this win.

I'm not going to die on this hill.

I specifically tracked the five year decline,

even though I found a video that had it.

But I think I have it noted as 800 and like 82,000 down to 92,000.

Yeah, it went really bad.

But I will say that the Citation 2 up the sales by 5,000.

What year was that?

That was when they put out the Citation 2, I think was in 1984.

Yeah.

What a file.

It went up by 5,000.

Well, God, they must have been so bummed.

I wonder who got fired over this.

You know, somebody got the ax.

Yeah, probably more than one person.

Yeah.

So here's here's another note that I have.

Oh, no, I'm sorry.

It was 800,080 to 62,085.

Well, OK, so 1983 is 90,000.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it went with the bottom being 62,000.

That is worse than the Pacer, for sure.

It's tragic.

The Pacer, at least, like had some real, you know,

interesting things about it and some very

sort of out of the box thinking.

And it was a special little car.

Yeah, 5,000 cars at $7,000 apiece.

That still made them $35 million back.

OK, that helps.

Yeah, it helps.

But how much of that money goes to the dealer?

Yeah, I don't know.

How much that money goes into?

I don't know the answer to that.

But like, it still brought the money back.

So like, at least it did something.

At least it did something.

Somebody might.

You were like, somebody probably got fired over that.

But somebody might have, like, got a.

A promotion over five thousand.

Maybe a Christmas card over getting, like, thanks for

turning that trash back into money.

I mean, that's what it seems like.

I don't know.

It's hard to say.

I got a couple other notes on this, though.

OK.

Almost twice the power of the GTI.

I'm assuming 80 or 81.

It was really, I think the X 11 and it delivered twice

the power of the current of the contemporary GTI.

The GTI right now. No.

No, the one at the time.

Yes. OK.

All right. Sorry, you were confusing me.

You said contemporary.

I mean, it's contemporary.

Like, whatever.

Yeah. All right.

Potato, potato.

I don't know why you would think in 1980, Chevy

citations making more power than the current GTI.

I didn't. I would think.

No, I was blown away.

That's what I was just like, what?

I don't even know what to say.

I'm going to take this off.

I'm going to go. OK.

Bye now.

I did see one for sale on like bring a trailer or something.

That was on a video that some guy was talking about.

I don't remember how much it was, though, but it was an X 11.

It was bronze. Did you see that one?

I don't think I saw that.

OK. I will say that I.

While I was looking up something for the brain buster,

which we'll talk about later.

Yeah, I saw a picture of a Corvette that it was like this recently sold.

I want to say I'm bring a trailer for like $16,000.

And I was like, dude, what?

It was like 81. Oh, my gosh.

Do you think? Whoa, should I sell mine?

I know. I immediately was like, I don't know.

Sixteen thousand dollars.

I was like with Emily's fur interior.

I mean, like your car's been on reddit cars.

I mean, Reddit's worst mods is what it was on.

Worst. That's a trophy.

Oh, it's a trophy.

But I mean, it had so many interactions, too.

People really had a lot to say about it.

I was really proud of what it did on Reddit.

It's I mean, I think that.

Yeah, I think that's something to be proud of.

I'm exceedingly proud of it.

I. Yeah. Yeah.

I just think that you're not giving yourself enough credit.

It's one of my crowning jewels for that car.

And then it also got on Portland's,

like, what the fuck, Portland or something.

Sweet. That's great.

I think that's like.

Yeah, I will say I do have to do something about the interior,

though, once we start working on it and driving it again.

Vacuum it or re glue it.

Re glue. There's a lot of re gluing that he's.

If you don't know, Emily has a 81 Corvette.

It's navy blue and really pretty white for all over the interior.

That's four speed glued.

It's a four speed.

Yeah. 350 with a four speed.

Yeah. Rock Grisha Munty.

No. Rock Grisha.

I don't know what kind of transmission,

but I don't think they did those at that point.

It's a it's cool car.

It is a cool car.

The white and the blue look great.

They do. I will say pink plate from Chuky Ham.

I know I can't wait to do that.

It was gold. It's golden blue.

Oh, right. It's golden. Yeah.

Yeah. I can't wait to put that on.

I will say the white fur does look bang in

and it turns heads wherever it goes.

And it's very.

Polarizing.

Also, I love that about it.

I love how many people.

Losers.

I love it.

And I love how many people like it.

And the ones that like it are the people

that I would like to reach with this podcast

and like want to reach with our classes and stuff.

So I feel like I'm talking to the right people.

Well, yeah, like, yeah.

When you tell me like I take it for granted

sometimes because I'm new.

So it's like when we're hanging out with somebody,

you're like, oh, she she hangs out

because we did the car crush block party

and like we met her there.

Like she came to hang out.

It's like, yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah.

And that's a bunch of women that we know.

Yeah.

I just I just kind of just like met everybody.

And in my mind, everybody already knows each other.

So right, I don't know how that happened.

And some of it is that's cool.

I forget to.

And I also take it for granted

because I forget what's happened in the past.

But I will say about the white fur interior.

It is so blinding.

It is so fashion over function.

Well, we got to get your breaks back on.

So you can go through the Larry and their gold Corvette.

I know.

Yeah, that is going to we're going to look good.

I love a C3.

I do, too.

We're going to we should save some of this

because we do have to talk about it.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

We really went off the edge here time Corvette party.

But anyway, let's get back to the mini Corvette.

The citation, the citation, the poor man's Corvette.

Yeah.

So the hatchbacks cool.

They're all hatchbacks, weren't they?

Yeah.

I love the commercial where it showed them fitting

like 20 grocery bags in it or something.

Oh, OK.

Well, OK, it was like 15.

I don't think it was 20, but it was a lot.

Sorry, I'm going to do some more cola here.

It's like beverage rich today.

We're so thirsty today.

Citation's got me thirsty.

Whoa, really?

Wow, you know, it's got me thirsty for a four speed manual

and a 2.8 V six with a Rochester dual jet two barrel carb.

Oh, that's the X 11, right?

Yes, it is. Yes.

So these were lively and sporty and especially with the V six.

Yeah.

And then the suspension upgrades.

Now, the 2.8 V six for the X 11 also had a better cam and head.

So it breathed a little bit better.

And there were 165 foot pounds of torque at 2400 RPM.

Whoa, that's a monster.

Yeah, I mean, the I think it was like 150 horse or something like that.

Maybe not. Yeah.

That's close to what my I think it was.

I actually don't have that down.

You just keep recalling it.

I think it was 150, though.

I mean, I watched like 15 to 20 citations.

It was somewhere total garbage, by the way.

OK, let's move forward here zero to 60 and 8.5 seconds.

And then a low 16 to high 15 quarter mile times,

which one of the videos, like I'm not going to own this,

but it says that was equivalent to a V eight equipped Camaro at that time.

Well, but it's 80.

Yeah, so nothing is really going fast in 1980.

So naturally, the big engine cars are getting squinched down

towards the little engine cars.

Yeah. So I'm not surprised that the little engine car is doing OK.

I mean, it's yeah, it weighs less.

Yeah, that's true.

So yeah, maybe it's a little bit of a zitty.

Yeah, moving forward.

Got low to mid 20s and fuel mileage.

So like that's not horrible.

Yeah, my Astro gets 20 on the highway.

So I guess if this car got like mid 20s,

yeah, that's cool. I guess 24.

I mean, that's how my Volvo was.

My 240, I'd get like 24 with the automatic.

And then I had a five speed and I'd get like 25.

Hmm. I wonder what my Honda gets.

I've looked it up, but I can never remember.

I know that my little must not be that important if you don't know.

Must be doing pretty good.

It's just like I have to get gas.

And that doesn't it just doesn't matter.

Is this one of those expenses?

I just feel like if it were bad, you'd be tracking, you know,

like that's always somebody that's like, no, I get six.

Well, it's, you know, I had a little forebanger Honda

and it got significantly better gas mileage than my V six, obviously.

And so I do like kind of pay attention, but not really,

because it's just like, this is where I'm at.

This is like, I just have to buy gas. I can't.

It doesn't matter really, because I'm going to buy gas.

This is America.

I'm not getting rid of my car and getting another four.

I mean, I kind of wish I could, but I can't too deep, too deep.

I've got no front seat.

We live in a society deep in this car.

It says that, yeah, I have the sense here that says

it was over in five years after starting out as the best selling car in America.

Yeah. Oh, it was the best selling car in America for a minute.

Oh, my gosh.

Talk about just getting flung out of.

So how long did it take to pace her?

Pacer was like 10 years or something.

I think the pace is with it.

I mean, I guess not.

It's AMC got sold and survived as cheap, but it did hurt AMC quite a bit.

But I think Chevy, because of GM, I think they're just so much bigger

that the citation couldn't take it down. Yeah, they move fast.

Yeah, it's funny to think of like a car.

Well, OK, I guess that's that episode of the Simpsons where Homer's brother

lets Homer design the car and it takes down his whole company like overnight.

From the second people see the car, he's done.

Do you think they were doing a parody on the citation?

That's a fair question.

I wonder what's the shortest?

This is something for brain buster.

So maybe I won't say it now.

OK, never mind. It's a question.

I can't say it for this brain buster, though, as we have a question.

Jeez. Listen to it, y'all.

It's on Friday. OK, look, I have this.

Like, these are my notes from watching all these videos last night.

OK, because I, you know, I was like.

All right.

Transmission hoses.

Wait, no, hang on.

They were built.

They were built poorly because they were cheap cars.

Parentheses. Is that an excuse?

I mean, is it like?

Hey, it's a real shitty car.

So don't spend too much time on it.

What?

I think maybe that happened.

Next note, transmission hoses would cause fires.

See, I had hose also.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because that was a big problem, I think. Hoses.

And what I think is the cheap car thing is that Honda is the company

I'm the most familiar with.

Their cars aren't expensive.

Like every classic car out there that somebody drives daily has transmission hoses.

Because somebody's cut the hard lines and stitched them back together.

But like new cars shouldn't have a hose.

Some some do some have little links up by the radiator.

But I this sounds under car to me.

If it's starting a fire.

Yeah. That's pretty serious.

Yeah. I was going to say for all the transmission fluid,

I've leaked over the years and I've never had a fire.

That's true. It must have been really bad.

Yeah. Like imagine.

NHDSA sued over the cars careening out of control under heartbreaking.

Yep.

There's the green Wayne careening.

And they won that.

It's whenever we had a greening out of control careening out of control.

Then I have my 800,000 to six to an 80 to 62,085.

And then this last note, it says the fuck is a hot hatch.

Oh, right. What is a hot hatch?

They kept calling it a hot hatch.

Oh, they just called it a hot hatch.

That was just a hot hatch.

Huh. Well, it was sporty and spacious.

And can I go to a diner and order that?

Let me get a hot hatch.

Oh, yeah. Sounds good.

Is that going to be like an egg?

It's like a special.

Two hot hatches coming right up.

A couple more notes.

C2 vet had a vertical radio as well.

We did cover. Yes. Yeah.

C2 though.

And then I, you know, I started out with saying that I wish that the question.

What is the highest horsepower Chevy citation?

I thought for sure there would be like a pro street one or something.

Of the Chevy citation.

Yeah. I thought there'd be like a land speed car, a drag car.

Oh, that somebody had built out of the show.

I could not find one, but I'll tell you what I found.

It was a YouTube short.

Okay.

And it was the kind of a guy being like, yeah, I bought this thing.

What in this car? Kind of weird.

It needs a little help, but check this out.

And it had, it was an X 11, but it had the 3,800 cc Buick motor that was super charged.

Oh, so somebody did put something fancy in there and it had a Fiero manual transmission.

I couldn't find a hot rod or like land speed or I swear there had to be a pro street citation.

I mean, it's got to be like a drag car because they are kind of cute.

Yeah. Rick Doberton had the J2 grand, but that's the Pontiac J 2000.

Like, okay, but that is kind of the same car.

So maybe that's what I was thinking of the whole time.

But I thought for sure there'd be another citation, but there wasn't.

What's your take on it?

The rotation would drive, would not drive the tragedy that was the citation.

Yeah. Yeah. What's your, what's your take away?

The X 11 is cool.

It's got that cowl hood, wouldn't buy it.

Wouldn't pay seven grand today.

If somebody gave it to me, I'd park it on the street.

I wouldn't let it take up a garage space.

Okay. But I would keep it for a little bit.

I'd keep it for a little bit.

Yeah. I mean, because it's spacious and it's sporty.

Yeah. I don't feel like it's like a, I would drive that with a gun to my head.

Can I car? No. Yeah.

I like it. I mean, it is ugly.

If you had to like give up driveway space, I guess I wouldn't.

Yeah, no, that's not worth giving up driveway space for.

The Lincoln continental. Yeah.

For sure.

It's going to take up two driveway spaces.

The blue one from the hardware store.

That was, she was pretty.

I haven't even shown you the brown one that's up in Concordia.

No, you haven't. That's awful rude of you.

Opera window.

Mention it here and don't show it to me.

I know.

Okay. Well, maybe I don't want to hear about it.

I'll never, I'll never show you this.

Fine.

That way you can not buy it out from under me.

I need another car right now.

I don't know how you not another car that doesn't run.

I don't know how you not buy something out from under someone,

but I think it's like a way to even longer to not buy it.

Good luck.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that's what I think.

I think I would just street parking and I would keep it for a little bit.

I wonder if like I would definitely get groceries

and it'd be a grocery getter.

Well, I would haul something in it for sure.

OK, so I said, like I said, my grandma had one.

I like grandma did drive a car through the garage door one time.

Was it the citation?

Well, I like heard the thing about the shitty breaks

and then I was like, oh, maybe maybe that's what grandma dropped into the car.

She was careening back and forth, careening into the garage door.

She was careening in the driveway.

Right into the garage door.

I do think that was a Cadillac.

That makes more sense.

I mean, that's that's if you're going to drive a car through a garage door,

you should probably make sure it's a luxury car.

My friend, Roland Dale, said this.

He said he worked at the Burger Queen in Kentucky.

The burger. I think in Shelbyville, he worked at the Burger Queen

and he said that Colonel Sanders came there every Sunday

and he always hit somebody's car with his big white Cadillac.

Oh, I feel like I remember you saying that.

Now, are you saying Burger Queen like?

Yeah, like a Burger King, but there was a Burger Queen.

Oh, wow. OK.

And I believe that I believe that

Kristen's boss also worked at a Burger Queen back in the day, too.

OK, so was it kind of like a thing that was like a Midwest Southern kind of change?

Yeah, Kentucky. I mean, it was Kentucky for sure.

Kentucky thing. Yeah, Roland said it.

Yeah, I think Roland was in high school then, I think.

And he said he worked down the Burger Queen, Colonel Sanders would come

and always hit somebody else's car with his Cadillac.

Well, they're big cars. I could see that happening.

I would probably do that.

You know what? That was kind of a dream come true.

And I get to drive that big white Cadillac around.

It rode like a sofa. Yeah.

That is a car I'd give up driveway space for.

And like I said, the continental.

Yeah, I don't want to put gas in it.

No, that's the bargain.

But you would have to to get that.

That's bargaining.

It's your bargaining. That's bargaining.

Oh, geez. Oh, geez.

Well, that's the citation.

That's the citation.

That's everything about the citation.

Yeah, if you owned one, please.

Yeah, get at us.

Tell us what you think.

We did. We did watch that video.

That guy that was like, no hot chicks ever drove a citation.

Yeah, are you a hot chick that drove a citation?

Let us know. I thought he was saying like

he just thought everybody that drove a citation was mid.

But I guess you added the crucial detail that he said only dads

and uncles drove the citation.

Yeah, he said that.

I'm sorry. I thought he was I thought he was just like

just didn't think baddies bought citations.

Yeah, only bad dads and uncles.

Is that I just totally imagine like a frizzy hair

at eighties woman like with a citation.

Somebody like Wayne from Wayne's World Dumps.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

What was her name?

Stacey Stacey. Yeah, yeah, Stacey.

Well, speaking of shitty cars.

God, which is great.

Did we did we already bring it back around to the Corvette?

Did we talk about getting the Corvette rear end?

Oh, no, we haven't said that yet.

Oh, my gosh. Guess what happened?

I know. I know. Last time we talked, I said,

Corvette rear ends kept getting away from us.

And they never going to get one.

Like a week later, somebody finally came back on offer up.

Yep. Finally.

Oh, Brad, I'm still interested.

Said, I'll be right there.

She was.

I spent a whole of two minutes there,

which is epic.

Is anything missing from this middle part?

The spring was all it's got a mono leaf

and it was like cocked sideways in the hole.

And it's like, there's obviously things missing.

He's like, no.

OK, just get it out of here.

Oh, yeah, OK.

I wanted to be like Detroit, sit it out all jam crooked in that space.

This flat plane. No, I don't think so.

Fuck off.

Yeah. And you wrote it back.

He hasn't got it back to you, huh?

No, I figured out what was missing.

It's like not something you can buy.

It's shims and rubber mounts.

But like it seemed like the only way you get the rubber mounts

for the rear was like buying another spring.

Another spring's more than what I paid for the whole thing.

Oh, gosh, you can just find the part.

I feel like bears might have it.

Oh, I'll look at it.

I went to Corvette Central and Ecklers.

I know, but bears might be a little bit different than them.

Maybe. That's what they all say.

Tired of the heartbreak.

Maybe not. I know. I don't want.

We really we've come so far.

So much Corvette talk lately.

We've got brain buster Corvette business to talk about.

We got so we got this really pretty C4 Corvette rear end.

And now. And now we're going to buff it.

We're going to buff it.

It's going to be a lot of buffing.

I'm going to put it under our hot rod.

And we're going to do some grinding on it to get rid of the flash.

Yeah, the all the parting lines from the mold.

What is it called the flashing?

Yeah, I mean, you could call it flashing. It's not flashing.

Would be like if there's little flakes at the edge of the parting lines.

OK, it's just where the two molds didn't perfectly.

Well, I mean, they're they're decent, but it could be better.

Yeah. What are they called?

Are they called Mold? Mold parting lines, parting.

Oh, parting lines, not party lines.

Well, yeah, those are yeah, it's different.

But they're made by Alcoa, so like that's a big name and aluminum.

Which is awesome.

Yeah, we wouldn't expect anything less. It's a Corvette.

That's it, right?

Detroit's got big contracts, big business.

Yeah, it's going to look nice polished up.

It will. It's going to look damn good.

Yeah, it's going to be.

Yeah, it's got a monolith.

And we think that we're going to do a monolith in the front,

which is how the Corvette is too.

Oh, I didn't know that.

I didn't either.

Yeah, that you were going to do.

No, I knew that they had a monolith in the front on the Seaforce.

But I didn't know. I didn't know that.

I didn't know that you were going to do a monolith in the front.

That sounds well, there was a version of

the ice truck that is in from like rod and custom.

There's a shot of it, like 70, 80 percent done.

And there's a monolith.

And I just really like it.

Yeah, I I didn't know that.

I didn't oddly, I did not know the Seaforce was monolith in the front.

Also, I think that's so cool.

And I know the five is also.

I don't know if they still are not, but I think it's super clever.

Did the ice truck stay with that?

Nope, it went to opposing coil springs,

which is like one of Dan Wood's signature things.

They're like coilovers, but they're like pushing out.

Oh, OK, they've got like a little arm.

OK, yeah, I remember seeing that.

Yeah, it's going to be cool.

We've been moving along.

Yeah, have the mold for the mostly almost finished all the way for the grill.

Yeah, the grill is really cool.

I mean, I haven't it looks awesome.

I haven't really posted about it online or anything,

but like Rizzo had this cool idea to like lean the

the Model T grill shell back and make like a track nose.

But it's like it's just, you know, flat and fast.

It looks mean. Yeah, it looks like a Model T grill, but sort of like

if you just leaned it back and turn it into a track nose,

but it's got a look to it.

It's like kind of got that cow pusher front end,

which I didn't know what a track nose was.

So I'm going to go ahead and put a link to that show notes.

Yeah, I just found out a few days ago.

Track nose. Yeah.

And it's like a funny sounding, you know, like ice truck

and the milk truck have these like snow plow front ends, you know, like cow pusher.

And so like this kind of gives us that look like we

we're going to make a fiberglass one out of this.

And then who knows that we might wind up with an actual brass one.

I don't know, which would be really classy.

Yeah, I don't know.

But the front end, you know, on the ice truck is heavy.

You know, it's got this brass look.

So I don't know. We'll see.

We're doing our own thing, but it's heavily inspired by.

So like we have things we want to try to stick to you.

Yeah. Not real sure.

But that's the fun of it is sort of like the Haman and Han and

what's going to look good.

I started to make the cowl and we made a really pretty piece.

We'd been planning to sort of like, well, I wanted to build a metal body.

Then we were like talking about doing fiberglass.

And then I made the cowl, the lower cowl out of steel.

And I was like, I wish you just get on with the steel. Yeah.

I think that's a good idea.

That's what you wanted to do to begin with.

Yeah, it is. And I made that piece.

And I was like, well, this is pretty quick.

Then I started hammering on the bigger piece.

And I was like, oh, my God, I wish I had a power hammer.

So slow on the plane.

You know, I mean, I'll get around with the air compressors

trying to get, you know, the best setup I can get and like just constantly having problems.

I know she spent all day working on working with the air compressors.

Oh, my God, so frustrating.

We just have all this stitched together shit and eventually something will be good.

You'll get it dialed in.

It's just hard because we don't have three phase and I'm used to having three phase

and you can just there's a lot more motors available to you with three phase and strong.

Oh, OK. Yeah.

So yeah, kind of frustrating.

Yeah, the part I could see that a little bit, a little bit.

If you're getting your stuff wired, people just spring for three phase.

So it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah, really.

It is it's such a it's so hard to not have it.

Then you got to use like VFDs or rotary converters or whatever.

And I was like looking at I was on Craigslist looking at a rotary converter up in Washington.

Oh, for the air compressor.

Just to make just to be able to make three phase power.

For what? Just anything?

Was it get my pole max back on the switches and get it off the VFD?

Because like the motor is not built for a VFD.

These safe motors have like thicker wiring in the windings and stuff.

OK, so is it not sometimes insulated bearings and

grounding the shaft on the rotor?

So like I don't want to do a number on my kick ass two speed motor.

I'd rather get it back on the old, you know, contactors.

OK, because it's got a two speed.

It's a high low three horse motor.

Yeah, I didn't realize that the VFD could be hard on it.

Yeah, you can get little spikes of electricity through it and stuff,

or you can it'll send like a shock to the bearings and zap the bearings.

Like weld them, basically.

Ouch. Yeah. Yeah.

That's your baby.

So I mean, that's that's the whole thing.

That's the hard part with single phase is like single phase 240 motors are like

you're limited three phase.

It's like the sky's limit.

Like a seven and a half horse 240 single phase motors like eight hundred dollars.

I've got a three phase seven and a half horse motor out there that I kind of

wandered into, I'd love to be able to use it.

I could use it to make a rotary phase converter,

but then I'd only be able to start like a four horse motor.

Three and a half, four or five.

I don't think I could run a five horse compressor.

Would maybe have to start a second motor.

Motors on motors on motors.

I know, I know, I know.

You got tanks on tanks on tanks and motors on motors on motors.

It's yeah, he really having some air compressor issues.

Oh my God, it drives me nuts.

I'm just so used to the old shop had three phase and I could just run everything I wanted.

Like I had a I needed another motor on my 80 gallon five horse

and I had like a 10 horse three phase motor.

So I just mounted that was awesome.

Yeah, you did have a nice setup.

Had good air. Yeah, good air, great air, super.

But up here, there's just not the industrial equipment that there is down here.

Right, that's true.

There were just like constant auctions and businesses closing.

It just doesn't it doesn't make its way up here.

No, that's true.

Not just pouring out all over the city.

Do you think that's because all of our industry are already closed down?

Yeah, but also LA is such a big port city.

Yeah, you know, it's LA.

Like what can you say?

It's a huge, huge production.

Yeah, it's bigger.

Not to say I mean, not to say there isn't that here because there's a lot.

I mean, Union Pacific's down the road and Rivian and all these like

there's big companies up here, Granger, Nike, you know, yeah.

I mean, there's tons of production up here, but it's just not the same.

LA is just so much bigger.

Yeah, there's just I mean, there's just constant commercial equipment everywhere.

Yeah, blades and presses and welders and what have yous.

To begin of lays and compressors and stuff.

Did we talk about how we got that free compressor

and there was 40 gallons of water in it?

I think we did not.

That was a sucker bet.

It took like four people to load this tank.

We took the pump in the motor off of it.

And I was like, man, I've never moved to 80 gallon tank that was this heavy before.

And then we like started emptying it.

It was 40 gallons.

It was so much water.

80 gallon tank, halfway full.

Yes. And then, you know, we filled it with air, just as a reservoir

and the one way check valve was bad on it.

It was leaking air out of it.

I was like, well, that's why they lost the pump.

I mean, not just like reducing the tank in half and then still not being there.

You know, the air compressors at the top have a one way check valve

and that keeps the pressure in the tank from returning to the pump

and then forcing the the motor, the electric motor and the pump to fight

one hundred and fifty, one hundred and twenty five PSI.

Right. So once that goes bad, then, you know, so like, if you ever go up

to your compressor and it's like having problems and you can't turn the flywheel

on the pump by hand, check valves go bad.

Oh, or the pump sees, but the flywheel is probably exploded by that point.

Oh, boy. Yeah. So much water.

I've never seen anything like it.

Ridiculous. I mean, I don't have a lot of experience with air compressors,

but that was a bad experience, I would say.

Yeah, that was a real bad experience.

It was a pretty bad experience. Yeah.

Anyway, same. Happy Wednesday.

Thank you to everybody for listening.

And of course, check the show notes for car links and things like that.

Please write in and tell us what you think of your Chevy Citation.

We want to hear from you how much mileage you get in the drive through line.

You done been piled up and then piled up.

144. The Pile Up EP27: Total Recalled

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