249: Has Tesla’s Lost Its Sparkle?

This is the What Car Eevee Podcast for Thursday, November 20th, 2025.

Episode 249, has Tesla lost its sparkle?

I think we've determined you need an Optimus.

I need an Optimus that's not set on kill, because I fear that's going to be the default

setting for these.

They're going to listen, and if you sound at all woke, it's going to go to the kitchen

and craft some minds.

I'm Phil Royal, future murdered person, owner of an Optimus, I guess.

Awkward.

Yeah, been doing automotive content for 20 years, or is it five years?

Either way, it's too long.

Currently, my job is to remind you to go to youtube.com at the What Car, and you can

watch our full-length feature gobbledygook of us talking, or the shorts.

If you can only listen for about, or watch for about a minute, we have shorts for you.

There we go.

My turn?

Go for it.

I'm done.

Ed Santra is coming up on five years as a podcaster, many more years prior to that.

Of not being a podcaster.

Of printed word, I guess, if printing is still a thing.

Yeah.

Then back in my day.

Anyway, and so here we are, discussing the wild world of electrified transport, so.

Guess where I was all weekend?

I mean, you kind of know.

Well, you just told me, but I'll let you segue.

Well, I'm going to give you the answer that you weren't expecting.

I spent two days at a Tesla supercharger.

I'm probably the only person.

Well, I'm not.

Everybody that was at this thing also spent two days at a Tesla supercharger.

So I went, my hobby, racing, so I raced cars, road courses.

I was at a track, but willow raceway, but willow California, central California, and

your nearest Bakersfield.

Yeah, like 30 minutes west of Bakersfield, someone.

And they built a new racetrack last year.

They opened last year and it's called the circuit.

And part of what they've done is they installed a supercharger.

So they contact Tesla when they were building this racetrack.

And Tesla was like, we'll build a supercharger there.

So I believe, I don't know for sure.

I believe the track is supplied the land for Tesla to put.

Like, I don't think Tesla bought the land.

It's probably not even being rented by Tesla.

It was just a way to get a quid pro quo.

Just like, yeah, like build this and we will give you this spot for it.

And it enables for track days and enables easy charging.

Because before this, people had to drive for like 20 minutes

to get to the nearest supercharger.

And it was a whole deal.

So now there's a supercharger there, the supercharger at the thing.

And I camped and so I could see these superchargers glowing all night.

And it's kind of fun because if you want to go in.

Little hack here.

They charge admission on a lot of weekends

to get into the track if you want to watch the racing that's going on.

And it's, you know, it's a local track.

So it's not like Indy cars go in there or something.

But on like, it's complicated on when you've got to pay a gate fee.

But if you are coming to the supercharger, as far as I understand it,

you don't have to pay the gate fee.

You come in and you charge and then you leave.

But you're in.

So then you can watch them racing while you're there

and watch people burn a hundred octane fuel.

Fourteen bucks a gallon or whatever.

Yeah, I think it's only about 10 bucks a gallon.

It was remarkably affordable.

I was I was shocked as how affordable the race gas was there.

But you can go in, you can watch the racing.

And I think some people did.

Like it was interesting seeing who is coming and who is going.

The downside to it.

I discovered is that as a racer, we've got to get into our SFI or FIA rated

fire resistant outfits, which involves, in my case,

Nomex shirt, whole, like jumper, whatever you want to call it, onesy.

It's a Nomex onesy onesy.

Yes. And you get into this while I was camping in my truck.

So I don't have like a trailer.

I've got an open trailer.

I don't have any of that stuff.

So what I do is I just stand outside my truck, open the door and just get changed.

And I'm doing that.

And there's like a line of Tesla's coming in.

And I'm there, basically, stood in my on the show.

Yeah, because at the race track, you just don't care.

Like you spend your first race weekend, maybe your second race weekend

carrying and like getting in your car and trying not to, you know,

show people your undies.

After that, you just want to get changed and go racing.

You don't care.

It's the same thing when I started surfing.

First time you put the wetsuit on at the side of the road,

you're like in the car struggling, trying to get it on.

And then after that, you just stand at the trunk of your car.

You just get changed.

So while I can recommend going to the supercharger in Button Willow,

California, just north of Button Willow, technically it's in Button Willow,

but it's just north of the Button Willow exit where there are gas stations

and a supercharger as well and fast food and hotels and whatnot.

If you go there on a weekend and there's some racing going on,

expect to see people in their underwear.

As you are driving to charge your Tesla.

And there wasn't just Tesla's there.

There was a Macan EV that was charging.

No, it stopped off for quite a while.

I think they came and watched some racing as well.

And then one guy parked his Cybertruck there all weekend.

He was, I think, a crew member for somebody.

He just parked his Cybertruck, plugged it in and never he moved it on Sunday night.

So there you go.

There you go.

Infrastructure is expanding.

There just might be consequences to it.

Consequences or a free show.

Yeah.

Any perspective, I guess.

Yeah, there you go.

It's another place for you to charge your Model 3.

Or maybe to charge your Mazda EV crossover.

Possibly.

If they make it.

Not the MX-30.

No, well, that would never get out there because of the range of the MX-30.

Yeah.

You need to bring a generator and strap it to the roof

in order to get that MX-30 out to button willow, I believe.

But you tell me that they are making a crossover EV.

And you included a link to this electric article, links in the show notes.

And I don't know if this picture is accurate or is this, this is the prototype that they've

revealed or is this, or is that just a random picture?

I think that's just a random picture.

Okay, because I looked at that picture and I could see Mazda in it,

but I was like, that looks like a ZDX.

That looks like the Acura, doesn't it?

Well, let me double reference here.

Make sure I'm.

Oh, they've got some other pictures on there too.

Yeah, so that's, I don't think that's like a composite or the top one is just kind of this big.

Yeah, there's the Mazda.

I didn't even know what that is.

The second one is definitely a CX-90.

So that's.

And then they have the Mazda EZ60 electric.

Is that what it's going to be called?

So I think the top one might be an EZ60.

Okay, so here's the story supposedly.

So we talked about the 6E, I don't know if it was the last week or the week before,

but it's effectively a Chang'an.

It's basically a Chinese model that is kind of rebadged slightly,

slightly different than the models, the models based on.

Supposedly someone saw a Mazda EV driving around Southern California.

Mazda's North American headquarters is in Irvine in Orange County.

Across the street from where I used to work.

Yeah, so they're like, ooh, what's going on?

So speculation is they may introduce this.

It's looking like possibly for the US market.

I mean, you could make that correlation since it was seen testing in California.

Not always though.

That's not always necessarily correlation.

But so we'll start making 2027 with sales starting in 2028.

They're saying they think this is an in-house development,

not a rebadged Chang'an, but who knows?

I'm sure with this partnership, they've learned a lot.

I mean, just about like how to make key fees because I would argue,

I mean, as kind of mind-blowing as this is to people with kind of a legacy mindset

about the auto industry, the Chinese are way ahead of almost everyone in terms of EV development

and kind of their level of sophistication technology.

So I'm sure Mazda probably took one of those Chang'ans and took it and like, wow,

these guys really know what they're doing.

So hopefully they learned from that.

What you just said is that China is so far ahead arguably in EV development

compared to the majority of the rest of the world.

If you go back 15 years, China was so far behind in the automotive world.

It was like they were producing cars from the 1980s.

Well, everybody else was in the 2010s.

Yeah.

And now you just said, which is arguably, I mean, you could make the argument of,

oh, Tesla's ahead or Luzedad or whatever, but in aggregate, China is ahead,

seems to be in the automotive world now.

That's nuts.

Well, I mean, no time at all.

They are.

Well, I mean, the thing is, everything I've read is they're just,

they don't have any preconceived notions.

They don't have the mentality of we've always done it this way because really,

China's only really been a major force in automaking, I'd say for the past decade.

And that's, I mean, from start to where they are now.

So they don't have decades and decades in some cases, centuries of like this

institutional kind of mindset about, well, this is how you do things.

And the management has to be organized this way and the teams have to work this way.

They're like, what's the quickest way we can do this?

How do we collaborate?

We just constantly iterate.

I mean, granted, probably like 80, 100 hour work weeks, just,

I mean, I think could be a pretty grueling existence for some people, but they're just

relentlessly pushing forward with development, iterating technology.

So, yeah.

So yeah, we'll see.

I mean, I would say, as much as we've made fun of Toyota for being a lagger in EVs,

I would say Mazda was probably even further behind.

Yeah, Mazda's tiny though.

Like, it's funny.

That's true.

You know, you look at Toyota and we make fun of them, but they're the giant.

Mazda's like the opposite of Toyota in so many ways.

They are a tiny, scrappy little company that really probably shouldn't exist anymore.

It should have gone out of business.

I'm surprised they made it this far, honestly.

But there were many theories, probably, I'm trying to think back,

probably seven or eight years ago, I was hearing rumors that Toyota was going to buy Mazda.

And they were like, from insiders in the industry, saying this was a very real possibility.

And I don't know if there was any truth to that, but it's always been that way with Mazda.

Like, they are a scrappy company and you hear that rumor and you hear it from somebody in the

know and you go, oh, yeah, I can see that.

Yeah, I can totally see it.

So, yeah.

So anyway, but maybe, I mean, maybe looking back, this was kind of a better strategy for them to,

because I think after the MX-30, I wasn't there at the introduction, the press introduction,

but I think even the journalists there kind of made fun of it, like at the official event for

the vehicle. And like the engineers and product planners just kind of sat in silence and just,

you know, what were they going to say, you know, it was an objectively inferior car that they just

brought out. It was clearly a compliance vehicle. And they were like, well, okay.

So, yeah, like I've said before, when Mazda finally gets on the EV train in earnest and

really applies their ethos of design and, you know, driving philosophy and all that,

two EVs, I think we're going to see some really cool cars.

So, I got my fingers crossed for this one.

I hope this rumor is true.

Anyway.

No, it's funny. We kind of make fun of Mazda and Toyota. And those are really the two companies

that I'm rooting for the most in the EV world is Toyota and Mazda. Like I think that they can

hit homeruns, but they need to get there. And that's with Toyota, they got so, they got such a

long runway, like they can do it. And very deep pockets.

Yeah. But Mazda has, they don't have the deep pockets, so they don't have the long runway.

And it's whether or not they can, they've got to hit a homerun quick if they want to

survive in this world. They might be able to pull it off, but...

Oh, I'm rooting for. I've got what I was just, I was just racing a Mazda over the weekend.

Like, this is my second Mazda to race. I'm not just a fan, I'm also a client or whatever they...

I don't know.

So, this is a brand I've been accused of being a fanboy of.

Because I own one.

Yeah. Let me guess.

That on my way to Whole Foods, as we discussed last week.

Yeah. Anyway, so this was, so in the space, my day job circles, this was huge news.

So, I cover what an industry link goes called infotainment telematics. So, that's the display

screen, connected services, blah, blah, blah, so on and so forth.

All the exciting stuff.

All the exciting stuff. So, this is something that's kind of been out there for a long time,

people asking for... I've kind of gotten used to not having it. And so, I'm kind of like,

when I heard this, I'm like, oh, cool, I guess. So, there's a very strong rumor Tesla may finally

add CarPlay to its cars, which maybe is a non-issue for some. The industry is pretty

buzzy about this. You'll know the answer to this question. Didn't GM just say that they're removing

all of that stuff? Yes.

And they're going to a standalone system? And the reasoning... I don't know if they said it,

but the reason behind it is obviously they want your data. And I'm sure Apple and Google,

well, Apple may not sell the data to the manufacturer that's using CarPlay and CarPlay,

but no Google will sell the data. But if you design it all yourself, then you get your data.

So, I thought GM was going the opposite direction. It's interesting to see Tesla going...

Well, so here's... This is a whole, I mean, again, this is almost its own episode, but effectively

CarPlay and Android Auto are what they call smartphone projection.

So, basically, it basically mirrors... Some people call it mirroring, but that's kind of the

standardized term of smartphone projection. It basically mirrors your phone display in the car,

right? So that effectively bypasses any data interception through the car. It basically

just communicates that either over USB or now with wireless car plates over Wi-Fi.

But basically, you get all the goodies and bells and whistles, and the car maker, GM or

Ford, whoever doesn't... They don't have any hand in that.

Yeah, they can't spy on you, so they don't like it.

Yeah. Well, or they can't monetize it. That's a whole other discussion.

Oh, here, you're going to use that word. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.

Spying and selling you. So not only... So you're paying... You buy a car and you are paying for

them to spy on you and then sell your data. It's craziness. It's crazy.

Effectively. So, some of the theories behind this are kind of interesting. So,

and if you want to say it's because of Musk's antics and whatever, Tesla sales are kind of

flattening out. You know, they've tried to kind of stoke the embers a little bit with the Model

Y, Model 3 standard and trying, oh, look what we got. A lot of people think this is a bid to kind

of increase consumer interest in Teslas. And I've seen a lot of surveys that the carplay

is like a must-have feature for a lot of buyers. It's one of the first things they ask for when

they walk into a showroom. Does this have carplay? So, I mean, we'll see how it works out for GM.

I mean, they have their own opinions about that. I don't know. I can't see somebody

not buying a Tesla because it doesn't have carplay or Android Auto. Now, I'm about to contradict

myself. Get ready. Hold onto your socks because they're about to blow right off. No, the Blazer.

Does not come with Android Auto, at least last I heard, didn't come with Android Auto or carplay,

that they were removing those. If you wanted a Blazer EV with those, you buy the Prolog.

And I would buy the Prolog to get Android Auto because I use it all the time and that's how I

get around. So, I'm comfortable with it. I know what it is. If I change it over to an iPhone,

I'm sure that I would use carplay instead. I think these are wonderful things. I would actually

buy the Prolog over the Blazer, even though they're effectively the same vehicle,

based on this one feature. So, what I just said about Tesla isn't true, but at the same time,

I feel like I've told this story before. I was interviewing with a major car media company

and they asked questions of, will name a car, you say basically who the buyer is and what

other vehicles they might shop around for. And they named things like Porsche 911,

whatever it is, GT3, whatever. And I was like, you may be interested in other things,

but that's the car you want. It's an enthusiast vehicle. You know going in,

that's the vehicle that you want. There was no, well, go and I'll also drive a Corvette and I'll

also drive a Ferrari or whatever it is. I don't think, I'm sure that exists, but I think most

people that go and buy like a GT3 RS or whatever it is, they already know that's the car you want.

It's no comparative shopping around. And I think Tesla is very similar to a lot for a lot of people.

I would say was. I would say was. Say they've lost the sparkle. Well, I mean, when I bought my Model

3, I knew that's what I wanted at the time. And there were a lot less choices on the market.

There was no EV6. There was no Ionic 5. There was no Mach-E when I bought my car. So they were

effectively the only game in town for that level of performance and sophistication, whatever.

I drove one that just validated, you know, my feelings. I was like, this car is cool.

It validated your biases. It validated my biases. So it was a non-issue that it didn't have carplay.

It's like, I don't care. I want it anyway. I think that set of buyers, the early adopters are gone.

I think, especially with the Model Y, Tesla is solidly a mainstream brand. I think at this point.

So they're going, they're not going after the early adopters anymore. They're needing to appeal

to mainstream car buyers that are also possibly cross shopping, Ionic 5, Mach-E, whatever.

Those cars offer carplay. So they may have people coming in their showroom saying, oh,

does this have carplay? Oh, no. But what it's got all this other stuff built in is just as good.

Even if that's objectively true, I think people are just determined and just,

if they want carplay, they want carplay. So it's kind of a binary choice. Either has it or doesn't

have it. Now, a lot of the built-in functions on my infotainment system, like I have voice to text,

I have built-in Apple Music, Podcasts, Spotify, Serious XM now. I mean, I've got a lot of the

same bells and whistles that come with carplay. So I'm kind of used to it. And I'm like, so I'm kind

of, if they add it great, if not, I'm not really missing out on much because it has a lot of those

functions kind of already built in. But I think to broaden their appeal and to appeal to buyers

new to the brand, I think it's honestly not a bad idea. I think more choices.

Some people, too, does a capitulation of like, oh, well, our infotainment system is bad.

In Tesla's case, I don't think that's the case. I think it's just kind of to broaden their appeal

a little bit. I don't know. So you go outside your car tomorrow. It's been updated. It's now got

carplay. Which do you use? Do you use the same thing you've been always using or do you just

instantly start using carplay? I probably poke around with it for a little bit to see if it's

an improvement over what I'm used to. But I don't know. I mean, there's the what they call the,

isn't it the tyranny of the default? And the default to you is what you've been forced to use

since 2019. So that's what you're used to and that potentially might be what you stick with.

Like I said, I've used carplay in other ways. But your day to day, I mean, you've used it,

but your day to day is like, I didn't think much of Android Auto. Like I'd rent a car and I'd travel

and I'd periodically use it, but it never really hooked me. And then I got it in my vehicle

and it's used daily. And now that's like, I get my other vehicles don't have it. And you're like,

you know, I mean, I don't know. I mean, when if and when they push out the update and I get the

little tada, you have carplay now. Like I said, I'll play around with it and see how I like it.

You know, I don't know if it's going to completely, you know, blow my mind and change my world,

but I'll try it out. But I mean, I don't, I don't feel I'm missing much right now, not having it.

So anyway, if they come out with it and they tell you, they said, yeah, notice it says you've

got to have hardware for. Well, I mean, that is a possibility. Well, no, it is a possibility.

Can you drop it another grand? Well, no, so the the the FSD computer and the infotainment computer

different, but there was a generational change. I want to say in 2021, where they changed from

the Intel Atom processor to AMD Ryzen. So there are several features that I cannot get that are

only available on the newer Teslas. So I don't know if this will be a case of too bad. So sad,

your car's too old, you don't get this. So this could be for only the AMD forward cars.

So the Intel cars are kind of SOL. That could be the case. I don't know. Either way,

I won't be heartbroken. I'll be like, oh, oh well. But we do an EV podcast in case you're not aware.

You and I do an EV podcast together. We talk about things like Chatham-O and

Naxx and charging rates. And we talk about we get in a minutia there. And that's all

interesting to me. You just went on into Ryzen and AMD processors. And I was like, they get nerd.

So yeah, we'll see. I may I may miss out on this one. So we'll see.

Yeah, you just need to buy a new car. It's fine. Are you going to buy the Rogue?

Get the R3. Oh, Rogue, yeah. Well, their new model, the plug-in hybrid. So if you look

closely at it, it may look familiar to you. I need to click. So the Nissan Rogue 2026. Let me see.

There's a link in the show notes. I'm going to click that. And I'm going to go to drive.

Yeah, that kind of does look like a Mitsubishi done then.

Because it basically is. Wow. So is this the blind leading the blind? Or is this

so good you might as well photocopy the original?

I think I have a take on this. But let's go over the specs first and then we'll get to my hot take.

So very similar style. So the irony is, is the Outlander is actually based on the Rogue chassis.

But rather than adapting the Outlander or PHAV powertrain to the Rogue,

they just basically changed the grille on the Outlander called it the Rogue PHAV.

So which I find kind of interesting. So one of the unique features of the

Outlander PHAV was that had not only J1772, but also a Chattano port.

So most PHAVs are just level two. They're not, they don't have DC fast charging.

So that was one of the unique features of the Outlander is it also had fast charging capability.

I think it was only 55 or 60 kilowatt charge. It wasn't like super duper fast, but it was,

you know, faster than a wall outlet. So Nissan decided to drop that. So the, this one only has

J1772. So other specs, 20 kilowatt hour battery, which for plug-in hybrid is pretty typical.

So if you have just a wall outlet, 16 hours of charging. So hope you're not in a hurry.

Well, luckily there's an engine. Well, there's an engine too, thankfully. Level two, seven and a

half. So basically overnight. So if you got 240 volt, 30 mile EV range, fuel economy is,

so do you remember when we did the story on the Wrangler 4 by E and you were just like

floored at what horrible fuel economy it had? You're like, oh my gosh, this is worse than the V6.

Like going off. So this is kind of similar. If you keep it charged up, it has a decent,

the MPGE, your favorite economy yardstick, 64 MPGE on plug-in mode, 26 miles per gallon

when you're running out of gas, which, yeah. So I've got to say, you always mock me for my MPGE

hate after I just called you a nerd about talking about chips and anti-MPGE bandwagon.

But there was that report, we just talked about it a few weeks ago, where they discovered that

MPGE basically is a fraud. Yeah. That everything for Phevs is fraudulently reported because the

driving, the real world driving is completely different from what they claim. Yeah. So I have

been vindicated. Well, I've always suspected that, but I mean, it's like, and I'm just going to double

down on this. If you have a Phev and you don't plug it in, you're dumb. It's the best episode ever.

You know, that's a hill I'm going to die on. So anyway. That's your hill. That's it. That's my

hill. So anyway, this kind of had me scratch my, so I'll tell you, my quick take on this is,

as you know, Nissan just recently got a new CEO, Ivan Espinosa. So he is tasked with trying to turn

things around with Nissan, which has had a trouble last couple years. I think he is trying to quickly

add models to the lineup that will add to the bottom line. So he probably saw, because, because

Nissan and Mitsubishi are already kind of related. They're all, they're both loosely kind of part of

the Renault empire. And, you know, most, most of Mitsubishi's models have some connection with Nissan

and one a former or another. So he probably saw this and he's like, how soon can we get this in

production? They probably said, well, if you just change out the grille and like the steering wheel,

you know, a cover, you know, we could, we get this to market in six months. He's like, let's do it.

Somebody said that facetiously, didn't they? And he was like, ah, sounds great. Let's do that.

Yeah. Great idea. Let's do it. So you're like, they're like, oh, okay. So I think he's just,

he's just trying to turn things around as quickly as possible. This, I see this as kind of a stop

gap. If they end up going to a second generation with this, I think it'll be more cohesive,

probably within the rogue lineup. It'll look more like the other rogues. My guess is, because Chatham

was kind of a dying standard, that's another hill I'm willing to die on. The next gen, if they do it,

will probably have an ACS. I don't know if they'll do that. Like, like on the leaf, the combo,

NACSJ1772, or they'll just streamline it and do NACS for everything. I'm not sure. But this just

strikes me as something, hey, let's just get in the showrooms. Let's get it out there. We'll say,

call it an all new model. You know, let's, let's just, you know, get this out there ASAP. So I

can't, I can't really blame him for that approach. It's kind of, I mean, I don't know. I'm not, I'm

not mad about it, but I do see this is not like, this is like, I think maybe a two model year car

until they refresh it or replace it. Yeah. Well, the Outlander is not really an exciting vehicle.

No, but it's practical. Yeah, it's practical and it's fine. It's fine. So if you're going to do

something like this, do it to something that's fine. Yeah. And it's probably a safe move. And

I'll tell you what else they could do if this sells in decent numbers. The Rogue is already,

I think Nissan's single bestselling model. So if they add this to this, they could, I mean,

maybe this is a little bit of a stretch because I don't know how big the gap is between the Rogue

and the RAV4. But you know, if this adds enough to their sales, they'll say, oh, we're the second

bestselling, you know, you know, C C class crossover in the US, you know. So anyway, cool.

So we're going to talk about another SUV with a plug. This time, I think possibly coming from

Audi, but there's a little bit of a plot twist though. So Audi may have Scout build their next

SUV. What do you think about this? Go back a couple weeks, month, year, I don't know when it was.

And Scout was trying to get around is trying to get around the dealer model.

And oh yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. They were saying we are a new manufacturer.

We are not beholden to the dealer, the existing dealer laws that one of our little investors,

Volkswagen, Volkswagen, kind of owns us. We're not part of them. We're, we're a separate entity.

And you need to treat us separately and other states and the dealer associations and whoever

are saying, oh, no, no, no, Scout, you're actually Volkswagen and you can't, you can't just eliminate

your dealers. You can't, you can't do that. So that's their argument is Scout saying we're not

Volkswagen. Okay, so Audi comes along and Audi says, Audi, part of Volkswagen group says,

hey, we're gonna have Scout build their vehicles. If they just shot themselves in the foot for

getting Scout out of its dealership model, I mean, I know nothing about anything as far as the Audi

goes or the specs or whatever it would come with. I'm viewing this as, is this going to hurt

Scout's chances of being able to do dealer direct, direct from manufacturer sales to eliminate the

dealer? I'm sure Nata's going to cite this as like, see, we told you, they're just part of

Volkswagen. Well, they are now that I said it out loud. I'm going to say, according to the

it was that just a, is that a randings of a madman that I just did? I mean, it's,

though, I think Nata will probably try to use it to their advantage. Now, whether this ultimately

makes a difference and, you know, their organizational structure, their, their legal

arguments about being an independent entity, I mean, I don't know. But I mean, they might try to,

the Audi. I mean, I think it's, it's interesting. They're saying it's going to be body on frame.

It's going to quote, appeal to the American consumer. So, you know,

bear of bear holders and somewhere to put your gun. Yeah, exactly. So,

I don't know what that means. Like wider seats? I mean, what?

Well, no, I mean, I tell you, I'll tell you who I just called. Is that what they did?

I'll tell you what I think brand, like brand positioning wise, where I think they're going

to try to, who they're going to try to go after with this. The Mercedes G-Vagon and the Land Rover

Defender. You know, real boxy, butch off road. So that's, so that's kind of a change from,

you know, traditionally the Q7, Q5. They're, you know, premium crossover, but definitely more

like street oriented, you know, not, you know, off road rock crawlers. So this will be kind of an

interesting brand pivot for Audi. I don't know. I'm not mad about it, but I mean, I don't know if

this is going to be a big moneymaker for them or not. I don't know. No, it'd be nice. I'm sure

for Scout to get money, one of the ways that you can instantly get income is you produce something

for somebody else and they pay you and you produce the thing and then it sells out and you have revenue

coming in and you may even have some profit that goes along with it. So it instantly turns Scout

into a profitable or at least a revenue generating entity. And it's kind of a trick that everybody

does or make their ramp to profitability much quicker. Yeah. And, you know, if you're a Volkswagen

group and you've got Audi and you've got Scout that you own, despite what they may claim,

it's a way of shuffling money from one place to another place. And it's not an illegal way of

shuffling money. It's a legitimate way of shuffling money. So there's a lot of ways that this kind

of makes sense. I do like the idea of a more hardcore Audi. I do think what you said about land

cruiser, wasn't it Land Cruiser? The Jewagon and the Land Rover Fender. Fender, yeah. What's

interesting about that is one of my neighbors had a relatively new, you know, a couple year old

Defender. And it looked pretty nice. And he actually had two. And I guess the lease must

have come up due on it. And he traded in and got an Ineos grenadier. Oh, so you kind of went back

in time? Yeah. But he liked the old school style better. Yeah. And more in theory, more hardcore

because of the older style. And it being, I mean, he just cruises around the mall. Like,

he's not going off-roading or anything. He's not actually using anything. But it does show a little

bit of that, you know, one person, one person that I just, it sounds straight from me, shows that

there is a market for somebody going from the more softer look to I want a more hardcore vehicle.

And if this gives Audi a more hardcore looking vehicle or, you know, street cred,

maybe there's more than just my neighbor. Maybe there is a market, maybe they're on the side.

Another potential model that might be cross-shopped is the Bronco. That's been a big hit for Ford.

Yeah. I mean, the Scout's definitely going for that Bronco market. So this would

also go for that, presumably, if it's basically the same thing.

So maybe it's a good idea. I don't know.

Hey, it's good for a Scout unless it bites him in the butt with the dealers.

Yeah. Well, like I said, I'm going to laugh my butt off if you see a press release from

Natta saying, you know, prove that, you know, Scout is part of the Volkswagen group. Anyway,

moving on. So this one is a little not quite as authoritative. So

I don't know if the Australians are necessarily experts on American trucks, but

I guess they're claiming to be with this one. So this is from a car expert, which is an Australian

automotive site. They claim Ford is working on a next generation lightning, kind of like I

hypothesized last week. But they cite their source as quote, information posted on LinkedIn.

So that's very authoritative. I saw it on the onion, so it must be true.

So they claim it's going to be under development, will be released along with the next gen F-150,

which I think is due in 2027-28. Yeah, I don't think this is that farfetched.

But, you know, I think I stand by my thought that they're just going to sell out their existing

inventory of the current lightning and probably, you know, take a break for a couple of years

and then reintroduce it. Yeah, I don't think there's any big loss. Right now, you can do it.

You know, there's Ford is big enough they can step out and step back into a market

and pick up where they left off. I also think two to three years from now,

it will be a different car market than it is today. Even with Trump and everything,

like I said, we discussed a few episodes ago, they released the Neve funds, infrastructure

build out is still happening. So I think by 2028, there may be enough of a nationwide

charging infrastructure and enough visibility of it that all of a sudden people are getting more

interested in Neve's again. So, you know, I think 2027-28 might be a good time to reintroduce

the lightning. So anyway, I'm sure, you know, people have differing opinions on that.

Not me. No, the only problem that I see potentially with that is if you're a

lightning owner and your big concern is whatever, range is probably range.

And especially towing. And then they come out with a new model in a couple of years.

And it solves a lot of those problems. The only problem I could see is if that comes out 2728

and you're now coming into 26, your lease comes due. Yeah, you know, maybe the timing's right.

My fear is that your lease would come due. You would go and you buy some other F-150

and you'd be on another three or four year lease. And then the new lightning would come out and it

you wouldn't be there to get the first couple of years and it would be a slow start for sales

on those to regain the customers because you lost them not to another brand per se,

but to yourself. You had a good gasoline option or diesel option and that's the way

that they went. Well, I think it depends on a couple things. I think it depends on if they

had a positive experience with the first gen lightning and they'll say, oh, I want a new one

or if they didn't and they said, oh, I want to go back to gas. I'm going to guess they might get the

power boost. Yeah, I'm guessing that they had a bad experience and that it's range related.

And so when they come back with the next model, even if it fixes that and they just stuff a 300

kilowatt hour battery and they say, here's all the range you want. And like you said, the infrastructure

has been built out. So now, because that would be the next problem is the infrastructure is not

there. It doesn't have a high enough charge rate range. Say that they fix all of that stuff.

It just could be that you're on a weird lease cycle with your vehicle and that you don't.

Yeah, I don't know. It just might be a slow start in 27, but I'm sure it's fine.

Sure. Well, I mean, the other unknown is Ford comes out with the P1F150.

Which is what I was asking for when I tested the hybrid. Was they just needed to make that?

They just needed to make a plug in power boost. That would have been everything I needed.

And I think that will be coming. The question is when? Possibly 27, 28.

To cannibalize their lightning set. Yes.

Just in time. Great plan there. So we've talked before about how you especially,

I mean, I kind of agree that the EVs have gone to the point where they've just gotten ridiculously

quick in some cases. Unnecessarily fast.

Unnecessarily fast. But how would you feel if that was kind of baked in? Let's say you got the

Yang Wang U9 Extreme 3000 horsepower, but when you drive it off the showroom floor,

you're limited to zero to 60 in five seconds. How would you feel about that?

And you can change it or no? Maybe. It may be user selectable, but the default when you turn it on is

five seconds. I think that's fine. They already do that. Manufacturers already do that.

Well, China's about considering doing that. So they, I mean, they're going to mandate it,

presumably no faster than five seconds. Manufacturers like sport mode is not by default

on vehicles. Like you buy a vehicle now, sport mode, you got to select on things.

They're not saying no more fast EVs, but the default operation would be,

would cap or I guess the minimum zero to 60 would be five seconds. If you wanted to unlock

the faster speed, you'd have to go into the settings and change it.

I think that's fine. You need to go back to something I said earlier, the tyranny of the

default. You make the default a speed that is, which we have discussed five seconds is pretty

fast. Like that's faster than you need. You don't need to be going any faster than that. That will

get you on the freeway so fast that it'll let you snake anybody at the light. Like five seconds is

fine. So to make that the default, I think you're going to make roads safer. You're going to make

it safer for new drivers. You're going to make it safer in inclement weather. It's just safer.

And there is no need to go faster than that. If you can change it, then what's the problem? You

horsepower key. Or the red key, so to speak. You get the red key, which is like 7,

800 horsepower, and then there's the 500 horsepower key. And I've done a track day

where I spent the weekend driving a Hellcat at 700 horsepower. And then I did it on 500 horsepower

mode as well and ran data on this and looked and 700 horsepower was faster for a lap around

back to Button Willow. But the lap around Button Willow is faster 700 horsepower.

But it wasn't faster everywhere. And where it wasn't faster was coming out of turns.

You could not exit a corner faster because you couldn't put the power down. So for the first,

and I don't remember the numbers, I got the data, but it's like for the first 30 feet,

you cannot get power down. And the 500 horsepower, you just matte the gas and it would go. You get

to 700 horsepower and you would get to wheel spinning issues or it would upset the chassis

a little bit and you got to pedal it a little bit. And you could not get off, well, I'm sure

great drivers could. I could not get off the corners as fast. Now, what I wanted was the

ability to swap, hot swap. Do it on the fly. Do it on the fly. And as I'm going into a braking

zone, downshift into 500 horsepower mode, use that as my traction control, exit the turn,

and then as soon as I get to track out, then you just click it into 700 horsepower and it's like

hitting the nitrous. I think you need to test a Lucid or Sapphire if you get a chance. Because

I think I read somewhere that has the fastest acting traction control of any car you can get,

where like down to like, I don't know what it was, like five or 10 milliseconds,

it can adjust traction that quickly. Yeah. So an all-wheel drive is very different from rear

wheel drive. Yeah. So you're not necessarily going to have those problems with a 700 or 1000

horsepower. So you're not, you think this is okay? Yeah, I think this is fine. Now,

it's something that you can do in China and not necessarily in America to have the government

mandate something like this. But it's also not... You're not going to tell me what to do.

Yeah. It's not anything crazy that like Japan did. I don't know if they're still doing it,

but remember how everything back in like the 90s, wasn't it? Everything was 240 horsepower.

And I believe... 220, 280 or whatever. Yeah, it was, I believe that was because of a mandate

about horsepower that you could have. And so everybody had vehicles that, you know,

oh, you got the Supra and you just change out one thing, you chip it and you've got 500 horse.

You know, it was an arbitrary number two for whatever reason. I don't remember why.

This I think is fine. I've actually even heard kind of hypotheses or proposals,

even for the US even, of like a graduated power, like when you first take delivery of a vehicle,

let's say it's captured five or six. And as it monitors your driving style or like how responsible

you are, it'll gradually unlock more power. Because this made so many people happy when Tesla

did this with FSD and they rated your driving as to whether or not you could have FSD. Everybody

was so happy with that that they would love this. Yeah. Well, yeah, Americans don't like being told

what to do. So I also think this is not the worst idea. But I guess philosophically, I have an easier

time dealing with this as like a voluntary, like brands voluntarily decide to implement this

rather than it being a government mandate. But I don't know. Yeah, it's just my work.

It's scary to me that you go and you buy some of these vehicles and you just get a thousand

horsepower. You push the button, you just got a thousand horsepower. You've got unlimited acceleration.

It's people can't drive. And then disagree. And then you go and you hand them a thousand horsepower

vehicle or 700 horsepower, even 500 horsepower. Like it's well beyond the majority of people's

ability to control the vehicle. Case in point, I present every Mustang owner as evidence to this

trial. It's difficult to drive cars that have a lot of power. And this makes it easier. Now,

you could argue with electric vehicles that like you just said, Lucid, they've got traction control.

You can monitor things way faster than you could. You can have individual wheels breaking way easier

than you could before. Still unnecessary. You don't need to do zero to 60 in two seconds by

default. You can have that. Now that said, Ferrari shouldn't be forced to do this.

It should be expected that it could go fast. So I don't really know where you draw the line.

I'm trying to can just draw the line. I don't think this is something doable in America.

Do you want to draw the line on this episode? I do. I desperately do. Please let me draw the line.

Everything we talked about. Notes in the show notes. Links in the show notes. That's what I

meant to say. It didn't sound right when I was rattling around in my dumb brain. We're also

youtube.com slash at the walk car. That's where you can see my dumb brain. And if you look at my

eyes, you'll see the thoughts spinning around as I try to remember. I had a meeting today at

day job and I went into it with like, I've got, I said in the meeting, I've got something I want

to talk about. And I've forgotten it three times already. I'm hoping during this meeting,

I will remember what this thing was. Yeah. And like three quarters of way through the meeting,

it did that. And I was like, stop the meeting, stop the meeting. I got my thing. I've got to put it

out in the world so we all can hear it and then just dismiss it because it wasn't very important.

We're on social medias. Don't find us and like us or anything. Just share on social media and

tag us if you want, whatever. I don't care. What else have we got? The walk car.com slash,

I don't even remember. Is it store? I don't know. Yeah, slash store. We still have stuff

available like the store shot. Yeah, you got a hat. I got a sweater. I don't even remember

what's on there anymore and tariffs have just messed that whole thing up. Maybe he'll roll

him back like on coffees and coffee and bananas. So maybe he'll include a pair of

car. The walk car apparel will have our own line item. Yes. I wouldn't doubt it at this point.

Also too, I want to cap this off. Listeners, enjoy the time with friends and family. Phil

and I are going to take a couple of weeks off. We're going to take a break. We'll be back.

The plan is come back the second week of December and we'll have a couple of episodes

for Christmas, but we're going to take a little breather for a little bit.

Yeah. No, we were looking at, I'm gone next week. Ed's gone the week after. There's all

the Thanksgiving stuff. It's just something's got to give and it shouldn't be our sanity.

So it's going to be the walk car. Yeah, so we'll be back and give us two weeks,

unless something crazy happens, in which case we may just do a call and put something

out there like a quick thing. Or I might do some ad hoc shorts like I did the other weekend.

Yeah, you never can tell. It'll show up in your feed. If you like and subscribe,

we'll just show up. You don't even need to worry about it. All right, we've been going for like

10 minutes longer than I like to go for, which is five minutes longer than we usually go for.

I'll see you Ed maybe next week. Hey, I don't know.

249: Has Tesla’s Lost Its Sparkle?

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