250: It Can’t Get You Home

This is the What Car Evie podcast for Thursday, December 11th, 2025, episode 250.

It can't get you home.

You're back.

We're back.

I'm back.

You're back.

Yes.

What about my back?

That was a joke from, um, all right.

I'm British.

You might not know it, but there is a cartoon and it kind of came in America.

Danger Mouse.

Did you ever see Danger Mouse?

No.

And that was one of the jokes.

The only one that has any notoriety that I can think of was Wallace and Gromit.

Well Danger Mouse goes way back.

Way back.

It was a mouse and his sidekick hamster who lived in a post box.

And in one of the episodes, Danger Mouse says, or one of them says, I think it's Danger

Mouse says, you're back.

And Penfold, the bumbling sidekick is like, what about my back?

So that's from my childhood.

It was hilarious back then.

I'm Phil Royal.

I am British even though it doesn't sound like it, but don't deport me.

I am an American citizen.

Uh, we've been doing a lot of content for whatever many years and here telling people

to go to youtube.com slash at the watt car where we have not been for the last two weeks,

but we have returned as promised every penny you've paid so far for this podcast we're

delivering on.

Worth the money.

Worth every cent.

Uh, Ed Sanchez, um, likewise, um, not British more than decade, yet not British, uh, more

than a decade and automotive content creation and moderation by my calculations, five plus

years as a podcaster.

I'm really bad at math.

This is episode two 50 says our show notes roundabout and returned from an international

journey, which we'll get to in a second.

But first, my boring story, your boring story.

Yeah.

I'm car shopping.

Oh.

Yeah.

So I have a gas car and it is, I actually have three, but I've got many, uh, but I've

got three street vehicles and one of them is dying in some way.

We don't know how.

There is an inexplicable burning smell in reverse and I thought maybe you told me about

this.

Yeah.

I thought maybe it was transmission.

Could be the torque converter.

I don't know.

Then apparently it stumbled a little bit in reverse, like juttered a little bit and it's

very few and far between have changed all the fluids.

I can't figure it out and you know, it's out of warranty.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

It's, well, 14 years old at this point.

And so I was shopping around and I'm like, what could I get?

You know, I buy used cars.

That's how I roll.

So I'm looking in like the six to $10,000 range.

What can you get for that amount of money?

And you know, I'll be able to get between one and 3,000 from my car and so that kind

of offsets a little bit of the price.

So I started looking around and discovered a Model S 2013, 2014.

All right.

Between nine and $11,000, you can pick those up anywhere from 150,000 to 200,000 miles

for that.

Very few people in the ad say what the range is, but if you deduct 20 miles off, they're

like the 85s.

So if you deduct 80% off that, you're at about 200 ish miles.

So somewhere around where your Model 3 is.

Still usable.

Yeah.

Very, very usable.

And the cool thing is there's 2013 and 2014 said, I guess still were grandfathered in

with free supercharging.

Free supercharging.

So that still requires going to a supercharger and not charging at home if you want to benefit

from the free-ness of it.

But it's a good option.

It's something that you can do.

So I was telling my wife, you know, oh, you know, that's what I'm looking for.

You know, I'm looking at the variety of these cars.

And of course, you know, I'm an enthusiast.

That's not the only vehicle that I'm looking at.

You know, some E36 is some kind of enthusiasm.

E39 BMWs be pretty cool.

There's a lot of cool stuff.

And she said, I won't drive a Tesla.

For political reasons or technical reasons for political reasons.

You will not be attached to that.

All right.

So that pretty much puts out any electric vehicle I would be willing to add to our fleet

that's in the used market from the mid 2010s.

I mean, what are what are the other options?

The leaf.

I I've been meaning to look up bolts.

But even that, the bolts like, yeah.

I started looking on starter with three kids.

Yeah. Well, it's not we need to be able to fit a family of five in it,

but not comfortably for long periods of time.

The Model S would be.

Nice, because it would check all the boxes similar to the gas vehicle

that I'd be replacing with.

We can all fit in it.

We could all drive for a couple hours in it.

You could definitely get that with the Model S, but.

Complete roadblock on the Tesla.

Which goes back to what I've been saying.

And she hasn't she doesn't listen to this podcast.

She doesn't care what I do.

This is completely formed on her own opinion.

She is not.

She's well aware of vehicles and cars, and we met in the car

in the automotive industry, but doesn't really keep up with any of this stuff.

But Elon Musk, 100 percent.

Is the reason why his notoriety precedes him, I guess.

Yeah. Isn't that a bummer?

That's a bummer for me, because that was one of the few cars

that I was excited to dive into and start researching what you need to do.

If you're buying a used one, I mean, one of my cousins in some weird way

has a 2013 Model S and he loves it.

He went and test drove a Model X to replace it with and said, no,

I prefer my Model S in 2013 still drives it.

He's got no problems with it, never had any problems with it.

I've heard nothing but good things about these early models.

If you're OK with not having FSD and not having all those bells and whistles,

which I'm fine with.

It's just. But there are, I mean, this is maybe we'll get into this another episode.

There are a few things to be aware of with the early Model Ss

that especially higher mileage ones can be an issue.

But the repair and aftermarket sectors kind of figured it out already.

So there are fixes to these common issues

that will basically rectify and make them good for another 150, 200,000 miles.

Yeah, I know there's a guy in the UK that did like airport shuttle service.

And I think he put like something like 400,000 miles on it.

And they went in for like a full

like a MOT inspection and even a deeper analysis than that

in terms of like battery health, you know, mechanical condition, everything.

They said that the car was in a remarkably good shape for for that high mileage.

So yeah, they can they can go to the distance.

So I was excited.

And now I'm going down my enthusiast rabbit hole.

Yeah, I'm seeing what I can get that she will drive.

Yeah, I don't know.

Maybe I'll find some.

I started thinking like the good thing in your case is

EV resale values are plummeting.

So I'm sure in another year or two, you'll have plenty of options still in that range.

Yeah, I've now got to wait for things like the Mach E

to get to an affordable price and some others that are

like the actual vehicle, like I'm not going to get a spark.

And like I said, the bolts kind of like fun.

But yeah, but the sparks like about the minimum size.

The the leaf is a non starter.

I went down that road a couple of years ago shopping for used leaf and 30 miles range.

Oh, my gosh.

Like you just don't just don't with the leaf.

Modern ones. Yeah, sure.

The ones are just coming out.

Yeah, those seem fine.

Original ones. No.

So I don't know.

I'll keep you informed.

Maybe, Ed, I will keep you informed, but I may not do it on the podcast.

I know it's not into it.

I'm not.

I know it's not a pure EV.

Have you considered a Prius?

A little bit.

I looked at Prius and the Volt.

And where I kind of hit a roadblock on those was I know the Prius needs to get smogged.

I'm in California.

Does the Volt, because the Volt is an e-rev and the electric motor drives the wheels,

not the gas engine.

And it turns out, yes, it does need to be smogged.

Interesting.

And I can't get a definitive of how it gets smogged.

It still has to go to the inspection station and they check for a check engine light.

They may or may not do a sniffer, but it means they're plugging it into the OBD port.

And at this point, I'm getting the worst of all worlds.

So I kind of went, maybe not, maybe not on the Volt, maybe not.

Of the people that I know have had a Prius, I've not known too many people that have had

a lot of luck with higher mileage Priuses.

There have been battery issues and they ended up selling their Priuses and getting,

in two cases, they ended up getting the Ionic hybrid before the EV ones they went with the Ionic.

Here's my comment on the Prius is it's been out long enough that even if there are issues

with the battery pack, they're relatively low cost if you're willing to go an aftermarket

route.

And there are several pretty well-established vendors that will like recondition the packs.

So basically, they do a cell-by-cell analysis of the individual battery cells and they'll

pluck out the bad ones and replace them and like rebalance it.

And it's about a third of the cost of a brand new OEM Toyota pack, which by the way is also

reconditioned.

So it's, you know, do you want the Toyota stamp of approval on it or are you okay with

an aftermarket one?

It sounds a lot like work that I don't particularly want to do.

One of the cars that I, when I went, oh, an enthusiast, I'll go to enthusiast stuff.

What would be cool?

And one of the cars that I found that I won't bore you with, but it was an enthusiast gas

engine.

And then I looked out like, what are the, to me, what are the big issues?

What are big issues?

And one of them is I just search, is it a timing chain or a timing belt?

And it was a timing belt.

And I was like, out because that means as soon as I get it, I got to change the belt.

Like I've already got a weekend's worth of work to do.

Although I'll tell you this, some engines with a timing chain are not much better.

It doesn't mean they're exempt from issues either.

No, they stretch, but they don't catastrophically fail.

Well, eventually they can.

Yeah, but you can generally get more like a timing, we're getting, people are not

interested in this, but a timing belt will last you like 100,000 miles.

A timing chain could last you 300,000 miles before it's stretched.

Hypothetically lifetime, but not always.

Yeah.

So onto you, you just went on a trip.

Yes, that was not outside of the U.S. outside of California.

I'm shocked.

I thought that we were not allowed to travel outside of our little leftist bubble here.

But apparently we are allowed to go.

So what you do?

I went on a trip to Israel.

Yikes.

I mean, I say that I already need way outside the bubble.

I won't get too into it.

It was a very unique opportunity that was presented.

And I said, yes, I took it.

So I was kind of interested.

Obviously the primary reason for going to Israel isn't the automotive culture.

I mean, I'm just going to say it, although there is some interesting

automotive history there, but obviously for more historical kind of stuff.

But I did observe the car scene there and it was very interesting.

They, the Chinese OEMs do have a pretty good presence there.

And I saw quite a few BYDs, G-leys and some other brands that I can't remember

off the top of my head, but I knew I just I knew they were Chinese.

Quite a few, I would say a lot of EVs.

I'd say probably about one in eight cars there was an EV.

But besides the Chinese, by far, the Japanese and Korean brands have a huge presence there.

I was expecting, you know, kind of do to its proximity to Europe.

I'd see quite a few European models.

I didn't proportionally.

I didn't see that many of the European brands that were there.

A lot of Skotas for some reason.

Some some VWs every once in a while, like a BMW or Mercedes, but I would say by far the biggest brands there are probably Toyota, Mazda and Subaru, and then quite a few Hyundai's and Kia's, too.

So yeah, it was just kind of an interesting kind of observation.

Strangely, I also saw about two or three Silverado EVs.

So you sent me a text of one of those.

So there was more than one.

Yeah, there's more than one.

I also saw a Hummer EV, which you got to realize in a country where the streets were originally designed for like donkeys and camels, how huge those vehicles are.

Yeah, like in England, I have seen.

I saw a Hummer on the streets, like it was an ice Hummer, like the not the original, not the military, not the Humvee, but the one based on the economy.

And that it was ludicrous, like it's unbelievable.

So I can't even imagine a Silverado EV.

Like those things look massive here.

Yeah, I would.

I mean, either the person driving was very wealthy or it was for like some kind of commercial application, because weirdly, I did see a few Ford Superduties, but it looked like there were more like work commercial applications.

So it's this weird mishmash of like a lot of Japanese and Korean brands, like some of the Chinese EV startups.

And then for the commercial vehicles, a lot of American like tons, like almost all the ambulances over there are Chevy Express's.

Yeah.

And then, you know, like I said, Silverado EV, I can't say I saw a lot of F-150s.

I think I saw like one or two, but yeah, it's just a really interesting automotive market because it's kind of a, you know, like I said, kind of a mix of like different brands and different segments and stuff.

So did you see a bunch of charging like chargers or were there the equivalent of, I don't even know if Tesla's over there, like, were there the equivalent of the Superchargers stations?

Or was it all like whatever the equivalent of a Taco Bell is over there that all the chargers hit the back?

Behind the back, yeah.

So, so I guess one of the big like gas station chains over there is called Yellow and they also have most, I'd say most of them that I saw also had charging stations.

And then I also saw like little level two parking spots with chargers.

So I'd say EVs are starting to kind of be on the uptake in Israel.

I wouldn't say they're like dominating the streets, but they're there.

I did see a few Teslas, not a ton, but a few Model 3s.

I think one or two Model Ys.

And this was in Jerusalem, by the way, not so Tel Aviv is kind of the more modern like tech for Metropolis.

Jerusalem's kind of a little more old school, but so, you know, I kind of saw a microcosm of, you know, the country.

But anyway, it was kind of interesting.

So, and the people you were with were like, why are you taking pictures of the cars?

We're in Israel.

Yeah, they were like, why?

So anyway.

Yeah, I like Jerusalem to take pictures of EVs.

Yeah, it's like, but once I kind of told them the backs were there, okay.

So anyway, so the next item we're going to talk about is a vehicle, I don't think any of us expected

whatever be on sale in the US, but from the sound of this, it looks like it might.

So you remember, this is probably a couple of years ago at this point, you and I both got really excited when the Citroen Ami came out.

A little city car.

Yeah.

And since that's come out.

Was that the one with the back and forward doors?

Yeah, the doors like this.

Because they were the same door.

They made one door.

It just flipped.

And then they just flipped it to the other side.

So the hinges didn't move.

That was cool.

So this is not that car.

Well, it's a variant.

It's basically it's basically rebranded version of it.

So so Citroen is now part of the Stellantis Empire, which was basically Fiat Chrysler and PSA Pugeot kind of mashed together.

So now there's a lot of platforms sharing in between.

So one of the variants that came out of the Ami is the Fiat Topolino.

So the specs are almost identical.

So this is and I don't know if this is.

So I guess Trump made I guess Trump a few months ago went on trip to Japan and saw the K cars.

Yeah, yeah, I thought they were really cool and said, oh, he should sell them in the US.

And and I think I don't know if it's Duffy because people in America love buying little tiny cars and not giant SUVs and trucks.

Because that's the market here, these tiny cars.

Well, I mean, I'm an enthusiast.

I mean, K cars has been like a real hot button issue in the enthusiast community for a few years.

I get it for an enthusiast.

Yeah, but in terms of market.

So anyway, but this is the Olivier Francois, the CEO Fiat said, this is a quote,

I'm happy to share that we'll be bringing the Fiat Topolino to the US with more details to come next year.

For what that's worth.

So but I think it's important to discuss the specs and limitations of this.

OK, a whopping five point five kilowatt hour battery.

Massive.

For one thing, a not a plug in hybrid.

No, this is a fully because that's what you'd expect from that size battery.

Yeah, even for a P have that's kind of small, but a raging eight horsepower.

Sweet, but it's eight horsepower from zero RPM.

Yes, and it tops speed of twenty eight miles an hour.

Yeah, WLTP range of forty seven miles.

So be like a first gen leaf, basically.

That's actually shockingly good.

So anyway, so I see this as possibly being a hit in I don't know if you've heard of the villages.

It's that massive retirement community in Florida.

Yeah, I could see this being big and like gated neighborhoods,

retirement communities, you know, possibly like college campuses, stuff like that.

Obviously, if it's limited to twenty miles an hour,

wouldn't recommend taking on the interstate.

I mean, if they limited it to twelve miles an hour,

I think you could drive it on the sidewalks.

Can't you? Isn't that the speed limit on sidewalks?

Yeah, for e-bikes.

Well, I mean, even California is cracking down on e-bikes.

But oh, yeah, no, I've got kids and there's.

So they're actually don't get me started on e-bikes.

There actually is a classification for this type of vehicle in the U.S.

It's called the NEV or neighborhood electric vehicle.

So that's a preexisting classification.

So I'm guessing that would fall and this would fall under that category.

So, but in terms of the licensing and registration and like requirements for all that,

this may be kind of uncharted territory because if like a consumer, like,

you know, just walked into a fee-out short, hey, I want to buy one of these.

You're like, OK, you do understand what it can and can't do.

It can't get you home.

If you buy one here, it can't get you home.

Well, I mean, yeah, depending on how far they came, yeah.

So, yeah, I'm just kind of interested in how they're going to position this and sell it and.

Yeah, so I'm not sure.

I mean, I'm not against it altogether, but it's just, you know,

I'd say in a landscape dominated by trucks and SUVs, you know, how this.

Oh, this is a completely non-starter in America, complete.

The AMI was supposed to and I don't, you know, I'm going to make the statement was supposed to.

I don't know if it ever happened, but there was a rideshare company in New York City.

Do you remember that?

I thought it was Washington, D.C.

Was it? It was on the East Coast and that's the wrong coast, as far as I'm concerned.

West Coast, Best Coast.

There was a rideshare company that was going to buy a bunch of these Amis and bring them in.

And I don't remember ever reading a follow up to that that said that they did it.

And I'm going to guess the reason why is because there was just no market for it.

And leave a comment on our YouTube thing is to the article that I missed

that apparently said that these things are going like gangbusters over in D.C.

or wherever it was that they were bringing them in as his rideshare thing.

But there's just no market for this here.

It just doesn't exist.

And I say that living in a neighborhood where I do have neighbors who have golf carts

that cruise around the golf carts and take their kids to school.

I see. And like at Halloween, they'll decorate up their golf carts

and drive around with the kids trick or treating like this is done in

my neck of the woods in Southern California.

And I'm not in a gated community.

So I could see some of my neighbors buying this.

But as far as like making a business case for it outside of handfuls of people,

I don't see this being.

Yeah, it's I mean, it's cool and niche and kind of weird.

But I just it's going to be interesting to see how

what their approach is going to be with this.

Now, having said that, the prices for new vehicles quite low.

So it's about ninety nine hundred euros in Europe or about eleven thousand five

hundred, which I know for you is like exorbitantly expensive.

But I mean, we started this podcast with me shopping for a model S for that price.

Which would you prefer to have a model S?

Which even if it had 50 percent battery degradation to it,

could still go one hundred and fifty.

No, wouldn't it go one hundred and ten miles?

Like no, I versus forty seven.

Like I just don't see the market.

Yeah, the other thing.

And I don't want to be I don't want to be the the profit of doom here.

But so Chrysler does have a little history in any of these.

So I don't know if you remember the gem.

It sounds really good with those at all.

It was like a glorified golf cart.

Oh, OK. Yes, I do. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like a golf cart with headlights, horns, windshield,

like all the required stuff to make it an any V, but it was effectively a golf cart.

Yeah. So Chrysler owned them for about ten years.

And then they spun that off.

Polaris owned it for a few years and then Polaris decided to spin it off.

I don't know.

Supposedly like the dominant player in golf carts is club car.

That's like the kind of toyota of golf carts.

So I. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know. Golf carts are expensive.

I actually looked. I went to an event.

I was when I was doing race cars and I was going to one event on the East Coast.

I know I just said I never go there.

And we were shipping our cars and we wanted a golf cart to be ballers in the paddock.

Paddock, yeah.

So we we looked at purchasing a golf cart.

Not even renting, but actually buying one.

Just well, because renting was going to be really expensive

because we were going to be there for over a week.

So we looked at buying one because then you could just sell it.

And then if you can buy and sell it about the same rate.

But the purchase price was like this.

It was like ten thousand dollars to buy one of these things.

And even like used, but in good shape, it was a ridiculous price.

So we didn't do it.

We packed our bicycles.

But I could see there being a market for that.

Those people's like.

So I guess if you want to put your golf bags in this thing

and drive around a golf course, but I can't see them allowing you to do that.

Like, I don't know. I don't.

I think you're right.

This is that place in Florida that I just blanked on the name of villages.

The villages. That's its market is the villages.

Yeah. So I don't know.

We'll see more and more details to come.

Maybe. Or we'll never hear of it again.

Or or never.

Yeah. So next next item, I think.

I think you can buy this in the U.S.

Pretty sure. Yeah.

The Lotus Electric.

Yeah, I want to say you can.

I can't say.

I think I've seen a couple.

Yes, I have seen one.

I saw one before like with California.

It's I I mean, I don't know.

It was in it was like a block from my house of this traffic lights.

And I was like, what the heck is that?

And this is what it was.

All right. So the Lotus Electric.

They're I don't know, it's like 5700 pound SUV.

So so much for.

You know, adding lightness, adding lightness.

You know, Colin Chapman be rolling over in his grave.

Well, I mean, the full quote of that is simplify, then add lightness.

And I guess if with these, they can't simplify.

I mean, EVs are pretty complicated when you look at the connectivity

and everything that they incorporate.

So they couldn't do the first bit.

So they were just like, forget it.

Forget it. We won't do the second bit either.

OK, so the latest kind of trend is.

So for all these OEMs that made these these lofty promises of all electric

by 2030 or whatever, some of them are kind of backpedaling on that a little bit.

They're like, well, maybe 2035, 2040.

But in the meantime.

So I guess they're going to do E rev version of the electric.

So this is going to debut in China.

All sounds good so far until they they revealed the name.

And I was like, what?

It's not the electric E rev.

Well, it might be for some markets.

It debuted in China is called the Lotus for me.

All right.

I don't know.

Just to Western ears, it sounds.

I mean, I guess it's no worse than Yang Wang, but it's better than Yang

way for Western ears.

Yeah, so this adds a two liter turbo range extender.

Seventy kilowatt hour battery.

So a little smaller than the electries, I guess it's one or seven kilowatt.

But actually, that's not bad size.

Yeah, pretty good size.

Supposedly they up the system voltage from eight hundred and nine hundred.

For whatever that matters.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it does, but it doesn't.

Yeah, so on the CLTC cycle, which is the Chinese, it's like WLTP.

They're saying 220 mile range, which back of the Mac back of the

napkin math translates to about 150 something on the EPA cycle.

Combined power output of 952 horsepower, so not too shabby.

Claim zero to sixty three point three seconds.

So this thing's not an era.

I think of E revs as the engine powers the battery.

This is a description description.

Me sounded like it was an era unless you're reading something different than me.

Well, I'm just trying to figure out because they talk about the engine

is two liter four cylinder that makes two hundred seventy nine horsepower.

It tells me it's turbo four.

Why would you need that to make two hundred?

Why would you need two hundred seventy nine horsepower for a range extender?

For a range extender.

Yeah, that's that's probably more powerful than it needs to be.

So the seventy kilowatt hour battery makes me think that they're

powering everything off of the the battery is powering everything, not the engine.

But you keep talking and I'll actually read something.

Yeah, so I mean, maybe it is a P have.

So maybe there is some kind of interconnection between the engine and the the wheels.

But that was nothing I read that wasn't clear in the reports I read.

So maybe you're right.

Seventy kilowatt hour battery sends power to two electric motors.

And the car's total output is an impressive nine hundred and fifty two horsepower,

which is what I think you just said.

So if you take nine hundred and fifty two and I'm no good at math,

but then you subtract that two hundred seventy nine

and you've got two electric motors,

that sounds like the gas engine is playing a part in there.

I can't imagine they've got nine hundred and fifty two horsepower out of two electric motors.

Why not?

I mean, you can do that.

But that's like, no, it's not impossible, but it's not likely.

It's more likely.

I think that you'd have let me let me see here.

So I'm going to do math nine hundred with the help of machines.

Nine hundred fifty two minus.

What was it, two hundred seventy nine two seventy nine equals six hundred seventy

three divided by two would be three hundred thirty six horsepower per electric motor.

I think that's far more reasonable to assume that.

The only the only rationale I could figure for having that powerful of a range

extender effectively is full throttle.

I mean, this gets back to like a few weeks ago that they, you know,

the Yang-Wing, you know, extreme, you know, three three thousand horse

and the engineer explained video where it's like,

like full throttle could only go for like two minutes.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. Or maybe they figured.

If you're driving this thing like super aggressively,

that it would deplete the battery pretty quickly.

So they needed they needed something powerful enough to kind of keep the battery topped off.

No, I can see that.

And I had a friend who had a volt, a volt, and he had problems climbing hills with it

because the the range extender extender engine couldn't climb the hill.

Couldn't. It would, as soon as you go to climb the hill,

it would eat all the juice from the batteries.

The engine would kick in pretty early on,

but it wouldn't have enough to get you up the hill.

And so he needed to click it into like generator mode while he was on the flat thing.

I'm probably getting wrong. I've never been in a volt,

but he had to click the little button to charge the electric

battery up as much as it could while he was on the flat.

So he could get up to the top because the range extender

engine couldn't supply the thing because the climb was so whatever.

So, I mean, at first glance, the power of the range extender may sound a little excessive,

but there may have been an engineering reason why they did that.

But because it's cool.

Because it's cool and you're paying six figures for it.

So regarding the weird name, there is some speculation.

The export models might be just bad batch, P have or hybrid.

So, I don't know.

So, cool.

You remember the Mercedes GLB?

I do.

I thought they were kind of goofy looking, but you seemed to like them.

Yeah, no, I think they're fine.

I mean, I'm not going to go out and buy one.

They're fine.

I'm not offended by them.

They're not $10,000 yet.

Yeah, well, they're $10,000.

Come talk to me.

Anyway, so I guess the second generation model is out.

Second or third, I don't know.

Haven't really kept up.

But so it's been out.

They did do an EV version of it.

It was like the EQB or something.

And then just...

Oh, that's what I was thinking of.

Yes.

Okay.

EQB was what I was thinking of.

And then Mercedes decided they were going to change up all their...

They're going to drop the EQ stuff.

Yeah.

No.

That's why you were like, wait a minute.

The EQB was...

Wasn't this already a thing?

And, you know, yeah.

Yeah, because the title on Electric...

Link in the show notes.

The story on Electric, the title is Mercedes GLB is back as an Electric SUV

and is better in just about every way.

And I was like, wasn't this always Electric?

But it was the EQB that I was thinking of.

Because I was also looking at the picture that they've gotten

and was like, that looks a little longer than what I remember.

But the profile's about very similar.

It's obviously related.

So, yes, it was the EQB.

And now I guess that they've gone to...

Now it's called the GLB with EQ technology.

So that just rolls right off the tongue.

Excellent.

Anyway.

Is it a formatic?

Well, one of them is, actually.

All I know is that's related to the transmission in some way.

I always see that stick, the little thing on the back of Mercedes,

and I'm like, dude, that's like right out of the 80s.

Like what?

Why are you still holding onto this?

Okay.

So this is going to be offered in two versions initially.

Rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive.

So single motor, dual motor.

So this is, I think we covered a while back.

We covered the new CLA EV.

So specs are very similar to that.

85 kilowatt hour battery pack.

So, of course, these are WLTP numbers.

So this is higher than what EPA figures would be.

392 miles of WLTP range, 381 for the all-wheel drive.

So cut that down to like low to mid 300s for EPA.

Still pretty good.

DC fast charging up to 320 kilowatts at 800 volt stations,

if you can find them.

Mercedes says you can add 161 miles of WLTP range

in about 10 minutes, which I don't know,

that'd be like 135 EPA equivalent, something like that.

So power, okay.

Not quite as much as like the Model Y.

So standard rear-wheel drive version,

268 horse, 247 pound-feet, 0 to 67.3.

So that's pretty close to like the Model Y standard,

but a little less.

The dual motor version is 349 horse, 380 pound-feet, 0 to 165.4.

So perfectly acceptable, but not really class-leading, I'd say.

But I'm not mad.

It's interesting that these vehicles get compared to,

the default is, of course, compared to Tesla, the leader in the industry,

but that you compare it, and even there with the Mercedes,

you're still like, oh, the Tesla is probably better.

When you look at it technically with the specs, the battery,

the efficiency, the range, the price, like,

it's like Tesla always seems to come out on top.

Well, I mean, they've been doing it longer, and you know,

they've had more of a chance to kind of iterate on stuff.

I think Mercedes also is doing things like,

there's no picture for the interior in this link as far as,

oh no, there is.

Look at that, I just need to scroll down more.

The interiors are just better in other vehicles.

They are just superior.

This has screens that go across the whole thing.

I think it's three individual screens, but it looks essentially like one big screen.

The interior just looks finished.

When I was looking at the Model S, and granted, I'm looking 2013, 2014,

that was where I was looking to buy, the new ones aren't much different,

and you look at the interior, and it's just like,

it's like a slightly better version of your Model 3, like it's just not.

Yeah, tussles aren't exactly no further lavishness,

they're very kind of minimalistic, kind of.

So I think that Mercedes and the companies that are coming in BMW,

I think they are spending the money on the interior, and not necessarily on the

motor, getting the power out of it, getting the range, getting the charging,

getting all of this stuff, they're doing good enough,

and then they get it on the experience of when you sit in the vehicle,

and you go, ah, this feels like luxury.

I'm going to be interested to see how big of a dent over time that can make,

in somebody like Tesla, where you've got people that maybe have a Model Y or a Model X,

and that leases out, that whatever is up, they're getting rid of the car,

and then they go and sit in a more modern, like an MLB, what was this called?

I'm just going to call it an MLB, the GLB, and they go,

just sitting in this is nicer.

Yeah, well, I mean the other thing I would add is the German brand's notorious

for slow dripping new variants, so it's probably a matter of time until there's like an AMG version.

So they're just slowly introducing kind of the entry level next step up,

and then probably in like a year or two, there will be the AMG model, which is like

500 horse, you know.

Well, am I making this up?

Or did they say that AMG will essentially become a trim for EVs, not increased power,

but increased luxury?

Am I making that up?

Well, I mean this, I could very well be making that up.

Okay, so this kind of gets back to like, trying to remember, so like the M Sport trim,

or the Audi, what was the S line?

S line, yeah.

Yeah, or Volkswagen's R line, so there are some, so they could maybe do like an AMG Sport trim.

It's not a full AMG, but you know, it's got, you know, kind of more bolstered seats and

maybe a little more power, big brakes, but it's not the full-blown AMG.

So I don't know, I don't know what the ultimate game plan is with this,

but I'm sure there will be multiple variants going forward.

So anyway.

Does that give you plenty of opportunities to spend your money at their dealership?

Oh yes, as they always do.

Okay, this is the next one.

So, you know, like I said, I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but Toyota has gotten

plenty of ribbing from us over the years for kind of slow walking EVs, but it looks like

they're finally getting into it.

So I guess earlier this year, Lexus showed the LFR concept in Monterey.

Ironically, I was not there, even though it's literally like probably three miles from it.

Yeah, just to my binoculars, exactly.

So they already showed the concept, but I guess they reintroduced it as the LFA concept and say

it's going to be an EV. So for what that's worth.

So Lexus is making or going to make a supercar EV, that was their announcement.

EV supercar, yeah.

And supposedly shares a lot of components with the GRGT, which is,

I guess, kind of the spiritual successor to the LFA.

Now one's going to have a twin-turbo like V8 hybrid, I think.

Is that a thing they just unveiled?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right, got it. So this is like the EV version of that, and that other

one's a Toyota and this one's a Lexus. So there's no like specs on it.

And we don't necessarily need specs, because I will say zero to 60 in 1.9 seconds.

I mean, not the default now at this point. It's going to have 120 kWh battery.

It's going to have 1300 to 1500 horsepower. It's going to be all-wheel drive.

It's going to cost you, that's about the only thing that you don't know is the price,

300,000.

Yeah, I was going to say at least a quarter million, but yeah.

Yeah. So we don't actually need to know any of the specs.

The question will be, will anybody buy it? Is there a market for this?

Now the LFA, was the LFA, wasn't it? No.

Yeah, it was so incredibly rare.

I saw one, I believe, in the Watt.

Yeah. I live in an area where I've seen a spiker in the Watt.

I think they literally made, I mean, you could Wikipedia this or something.

I think they made a total something like 300 or 500 LFA's. It was an extremely, extremely rare car.

And it was unique and then had a V10.

500 built between 2010 and 2012. And I'll tell you where I saw most of them,

because I did begin to see a bunch of them. That was when I was doing a lot of work at Toyota.

I was always on the Toyota campus, and they were always parked in this one lot.

They had there, just out in the open. They had all their test vehicles there.

So I think they said something about they want to make the GRGT more available than the LFA was.

So more than 500.

So 500 won.

Yeah. So I don't know. I just,

I want Toyota to succeed and I'm hoping this, it's a succeed in, that sounds like a really

stupid statement. I want them to succeed. They are succeeding in the EV world.

And I wonder if this helps get them in with a product that they can waste money on, essentially,

with no regard to profit. And they can take this, and then they can take the technology that

for new technologies. Yeah. And then this can then trickle down into their luxury Lexuses.

And then that trickles down. And eventually ends up in the next Corolla.

That it will be LFA EV power. But I'm hoping that that's what this is. And that this isn't

actually just a marketing exercise, which very well, I've worked with Toyota enough

to know that a lot of these projects can be just somebody decides that they've got a budget

and they're just going to build something. And it's really got no long term, not viability,

isn't the word, but they just have no desire to make anything, this thing long term. They just

had a big budget and they just wanted to make something awesome. And that was, it was in the

awesome department. And so they, yeah, they just made it out of this game out of this department.

It's more marketing than anything. Yeah, I don't really know. I mean, the whole

issue of high end EVs is a whole other discussion. Some people say they're kind of a waste of time.

I think the novelty, oddly, I think a lot of customers in the 100,000 plus class still want

the noise, the sensation, you know, in the more performance oriented vehicles,

even if it's not ultimately the quickest or fastest zero to six year quarter mile,

is like they don't care. They want, you know,

they want people to notice them when they drive it and you're not going to notice it when you

don't hear it. Yeah. So there you go. Hey, look at that. Ed's power just went out. He sent me a text.

So we were just about done anyway. And I'm going to take this opportunity to end the podcast so I

can get out of here since Ed already did. I mean, he claimed it was a power outage. We'll see.

He claims he's getting his anchor out to power this back up. But I don't know.

Everything we talked about, links will be in the show notes. That includes the podcast.

That includes YouTube, YouTube, youtube.com slash at the lot car is where you can go and

watch us instead of just listening to us. There's other places you could go to social media. I

don't really care if you follow like us there. A lot of that stuff, whatever, but share us on

your social media and maybe other people will listen and that helps grow the podcast and that

helps get us into more ears and that helps podcasts grow and that is fantastic. Big companies

want to advertise. I don't really want your money, but you could go to the walk car.com slash

advertise for right now. We may be getting rid of that part. I don't know. The new year has got

new things that we're discussing. So we'll see what happens. We'll happen next week. I don't know,

but we'll be back and hopefully Ed's power stays on.

250: It Can’t Get You Home

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