953: The Last-Mile Solution, Jacked Up Hatchbacks, Driving Down Stairwells

This is a car show, but it's also more, because cars connect us to every part of our lives. Families, careers, hobbies, and adventures we never expected. So you should have a car you love, and we're here to help. I'm Todd, I'm Paul, and this is the everyday driver car debate.

It's a good thing. Seriously, when I was growing up, sorry, back in my day, we did a half day on Wednesday, and every company ever worked for it a half day on Wednesday. Yeah, pretty typical. My son barely went to school Monday and Tuesday. They were excited that the kids showed up. He gets more breaks. He gets longer school year and therefore the breaks are justified, but every time I turn around, the kids not in the class. I feel like that too. He's getting a solid education. I'm just not sure with that technique. I show up at your house and I'm like, what are you doing here? What are you doing here?

He really did have a Thanksgiving week. I hope you guys got some downtime, some time with family, and the whole thing about Thanksgiving, I'm stealing this joke because it's a Gaffigan joke. The entire celebration, we just celebrate the fact that we eat. That's really all we do. We just get together meat, and that's what happens. So we hope you had some fun there, but thanks for being back with us. We also hope that on Thanksgiving, you limped away from eating too much and watched our MX-5 Miata versus Z4, Hunchlotter package. The manual transmission, Z4 piece, it's playing pretty well. Thanks to all of you that watched it.

If you haven't seen it yet, it is on our original Everyday Driver YouTube channel. We've got much more coming there and also on our Test Drive videos channel.

Lots of news. First of all, starting out with Carlos Tavares. We've talked about the Stellantis CEO who has quit immediately, quoting from a December 2, 2024 article written in Financial Times by Sylvia Barrelli and Milan,

kind of Anogaki and Ian Johnston in London. John Elkin, who is a member of the Agnellian Industrial Dynasty, announced that Carlos is stepping down. I don't know Carlos Tavares, never met him. And he has had some success. This is just a personal note. We know that he saved Pugeo Group PSA from near insolvency and pulled off that mega merger with FCA to create Stellantis. He has done very well in his career, but it just seems like lately Stellantis hasn't been

doing so well. Their shares have plummeted 47% in 2024. And so John Elkin has announced that they are looking for Carlos Tavares replacement. This article that I, quoting from, says that sharp differences emerged over the company's electrification strategy to meet EU missions rules and clashes over his short-term focus on restoring his reputation that had been tarnished in a collapse because of the group's financial performance.

I think this is in my limited business of observations. I think this is a guy who felt he was between a rock and a hard place because we've already talked about this podcast. Every manufacturer is changing their EV plan and realizing that the pie in the sky EV plans for 2030, 2035 are not going to happen. They still need to sell cars.

Every country was changing their plans. They're trying to left right and center changed. Exactly. And they need to actually sell products so they're going to offer, pick your manufacturer. They're going to offer internal combustion engines going forward, which was not the original plan. So they're all pivoting. So he is pushing back against this. We're going to go all EV, which he's in the right. That's what the whole industry is deciding. He's getting pushback on that. His reputation is sourd because of the financial downturn of the company. I think this is a guy who just said, I'm out. I think this is a guy shopping for his next

job. And he's left him in the lurch. He's just like, I need to be out. So you think he'll reappear somewhere else. Yeah, just retire. Oh, yeah, I think he probably made a bunch of money and could probably just vanish and go buy an island. Well, you would think so. But Bob Eiger proves that these CEOs do not like to leave. They'd like to figure out the next company. They can you can't see the air quotes save in their a nice and make a bunch more money. I think he is leaving so that he can shop himself for his next job and leaving Stellantis to be alien. I guess.

When I'm mixing news, but Stellantis feels like the brand that releases the new Jaguar. Oh, don't they feel like they merge that commercial that weird Jaguar commercial. We all saw that was Stellantis. We all go, sure. If the new weird pink Jaguar with the long hood was released that it said new from Stellantis. We'd go, okay, there it is. That's that's your car. You're right. In this article, I noticed a quote from Enzo Perufo, who is a business strategy.

Professor at Luis University in Rome quoted as saying the Stellantis crisis is an example of Europe's lack of vision for its auto sector. You know, I'm taking a lot into consideration. I take that with a grain of salt. But what I really read here is. People just want cool cars. Yeah, make cool cars. Yeah. Yeah, you have to make the bread and butter models. Yeah, there's plenty of people who don't care about cars. They just care about a good deal and they just want something to drive. But there's so many people now that just want something beautiful and cool and interesting.

We'll get to Jaguar in just a minute because I'm not sure if that is the answer, but Stellantis. Look, Chrysler, the brand only makes one minivan. One minivan. That is their entire portfolio. Different trim levels and powertrains, but it's one car. Chrysler, now offering the Pacific, yeah. Maserati makes cool stuff and they came right back. But that's not a brand for everyone. So even though they've got some cool stuff over there and we like it and I think it's interesting.

Those cars are not for all the people. So they have to have bread and butter models and Dodge still trying to figure out their strategy. So it seems like every car group is trying to figure out what their brand means to this brave new world that we're in. And then the parent company is trying to figure out what they're doing and then meeting every continent's restrictions on anything. Totally. And trying to figure out factories, whether we will build how are they profitable and incorporating new technology and what customers want. But it seems like things drifted

more towards the investors rather than the customers. That's just the perception that I read. So we wish Carlos, Tavares, all the best in his next venture. But for the moment, Stellantis is hurting. They don't have good cars. They don't have cool cars. Yep. You're right. They need cool cars desperately. So design team R&D. Hopefully you didn't get cut, you know, no budget cuts there because R&D is the genesis. That's where all the coolness comes from for sure. Exciting, cool, interesting things. A quick note about each car

to be upcoming events. Laguna, Sega, December 7th and 8th. That is the end of this week of this recording. 2024. Todd and I will be there for the season closing event in Norhell. We'll just be there in the afternoon on December 7th and then out on the 8th. But please sign up, hooked on driving. It's our season closing event. We're all famous. Laguna, Sega, great track. We'd love to see you there. Okay, Chad. Today you're going to drive the all electric Toyota Beasy, but my electric vehicle, phobia. I'm not ready, Dr. Ross. I believe in you. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

We're inside it. Try to take deep breaths, okay? The ventilated seats are touching me. You can do this, Chad. Drive the car. How do you feel, Chad? I feel cured. Woohoo. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. The all electric Beasy, one drive can change your mind. Toyota, let's go places. We're not a build show, but one of the upgrades we definitely recommend is brakes. An upgraded braking system can transform a vehicle's performance and give you better peace of mind.

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Head to powerstop.com and put your vehicle's information into their easy to use brake finder. You'll be matched with complete kits and components that are low dust, noise free, and feature upgraded stopping power. Join us and the thousands of drivers that have already transformed their vehicle into a stopping power house.

With power stop, brake upgrades made easy. Should we talk dear design friend Paul? Should we talk about the actual Jaguar concept? Now, here's the one thing I want to say about the Jaguar concept.

You got leaked before the actual reveal. All we've seen so far is these photos, these digital mockups. Let's put them this way. And I want to put this in context concept concept concept concept concept.

We don't typically talk about concept cars because it's nice. They're flashy. There's just no point. What's the reality going to be that's on the street? Plus the fact that this is supposedly Jaguar throwing down their new direction. But the first car that they're actually talking about is supposed to be a Ford or GT, which this concept is not so right.

I'm struggling with what's the real car going to be? This is the reverse Subaru problem. Subaru has the concept, which is the greatest thing ever. And then you see the real car and you go, eh, this concept is horrid.

And I'm wondering what the real car is going to be. And I also think about the fact that this isn't much different. This is the only the only connection we're going to make to the actual concept car we talked about from Lotus. We talked about the theory one from Lotus.

Which is not intended to be built. It's just a really cool digital model. And it's their direction they'd like to go.

This is kind of what Jaguar is doing with the type 00. But whoa. I mean, whoa.

You're right. This is a design vision. If Jaguar is previewing surfaces and surface language, they might be on to something here.

It's not necessarily new, I guess, in my eyes. I copy nothing. I'm like, I don't know about that.

I saw cars being sketched like this. My entire design career in school. It does look like a school project.

That is funny because that's exactly what I thought when I saw it. I thought this looks like so much. And I'm not actually making slight at anybody here.

But when I used to walk around art center when you were there, this looks like something somebody would have had on their board.

Which is cool and flashy and all that kind of stuff. It has no connection to reality and doesn't really feel like.

And I'm talking about you're still mid school. You're not about to graduate and change world. You're just mid school.

I feel like, okay, a design student could have come up with this.

Yeah. I feel like that. And we have to put color aside.

Put all color aside. Put it out of your mind. Imagine this in white or imagine this in British racing green.

Some of the classic Jaguar colors. Black, dark green, anything. But what it's actually being shown in.

Because the colors match the marketing campaign. But the marketing campaign does not match the car that they're showing.

That's a very good point. It's a very, very good point.

Imagine this in different colors. A car that is this that was introduced but did not match the marketing campaign.

And how would everybody feel about it? Okay. Very imposing. Very stately. It's a totally different direction for Jaguar.

And if these surfaces are indication, first of all, Jaguar has stepped away from any sort of racing at all.

That's what this looks like. Track use performance. I mean, I'm sure this will be high performing because of the amount of power it'll have.

But the racing heritage. That's not what these surfaces fall back on.

These surfaces are. Sorry, I'm just enjoying your voice. Yes, they are.

Stately, slow speed cruising, grandiose. You're kind of putting people at arms length by driving a vehicle that looks like this.

It looks like a big heavy car. It looks like almost to me. It looks like somebody looked at the E type long nose cabin at the back and then saw a Chrysler 300 drive by.

It was like, wait a minute. Could be. Speaking of long nose, I'm glad you brought that up because the classic car proportions of GT car engine up at the front long hood, passenger cabin, beautiful long stately lines.

That'll never go out of style. Sure. Just another iteration of that. So if you can put aside the pastels and imagine this in beautiful BRG and something stately and something very sophisticated and subdued.

So, you know, some Aston Martin colors applied to this. Not some of the brighter stuff, but some of the some some dude greens and blues on this.

Okay, that changes your perceptive perception of the car. That's why as a designer, you always need to see this in white.

As much as I don't like white, that's not the finished product. It allows you to look at the design without being influenced by color.

Sure. Okay. Yeah. But this long hood indicates Jaguars bringing back a V12. That's what the whole car says to the world.

And it's an EV. But that's not interested. So if this car has a long nose that says V16 or V12 and yet doesn't and is still built on a skateboard EV platform.

Jaguar, you've come up with nothing different. You've wasted a lot of space and just fallen back on those classic beautiful long hood, short passenger cabin, long beautiful GT lines.

The details are not worked out here. Again, concept at the highest level because you don't see any rearview mirrors. Yeah.

There's nothing here to indicate rearview mirrors. And that passenger cabin with a long strip of lumber running straight down the center line.

And no gauges.

Well, I mean, it screens whatever. But this does not look inviting and comfortable and that center wall separates you from the passenger.

It doesn't make you want to enjoy the space with somebody else. It's very cold and uninviting. The renderings look modernity for the sake of modernity.

It's not an inviting interior. It's not share this space with someone that you love to be with. That's not what the interior says. It's very off-putting.

It's a very go away kind of surface. It is a whole cars go away. The whole car is like, I'm blacked out and you need to leave me alone.

That's in spite of the fact that it's pink. It's very much look at me, but you can't see me.

It's a look at me car with the tint so black you have no idea who's inside it.

Very much so. It's that kind of standoffish, arms length kind of stately.

You know, kind of like something you'd see a celebrity choose.

Yeah, for sure. That's what Rolls Royce represents to me. You know, Bentley Rolls Royce is, you know, kind of arms length, captain of industry kind of thing.

And so the surfaces seem to be established and you could apply these to any kind of typical four-door two-door coupe GT car.

Even an SUV, I could see that kind of working. The problem lies in the details and those are very poorly worked out.

Because the front elevation would suggest that that LED signature light also has to emit a very high powerful beam of light.

So is it a signature lighting at a low power level that just indicates what? There's no real signature to it.

It's very bland and uninteresting, but that also has to emit a lot of light forward out of a tiny area.

And nothing about the renderings indicates technology that would back up what you're suggesting here and the shapes don't go along with the car.

What would be much better here is a complimentary design approach for big brutalist slab surfaces like this.

Have some beautiful generative small light emitting ports. A lot of beautiful patterning that is almost random in places where a light should be.

I'm not saying go as far as that first alpha Romeo 4C. Remember the lights on that?

The bug lights. It was six or seven little lights in the little pattern.

That execution turned out bug-like and that was poor for that car. But that kind of thinking where you've got some patterning and some beautiful wrapping up over the front of the fender.

And it's very undefined. It's not in keeping with where the lines just terminate. It's just some interesting exterior patterning that happens to be the light source.

And then you can choose a signature lighting. You can choose a beautiful different look. It's almost like as if you kind of sprayed paint with a toothbrush.

You dip your toothbrush in paint and you splatter it at the front of the car and it kind of creates an interesting geometric pattern on there.

That's the complimentary design that this slab surface could really support. It's like a big canvas and then what's the art on the canvas?

It seems like it was an afterthought. Well, the lines terminate here. So let's just kind of copy that and indicate some sort of cool lighting underneath.

Well, what is that? Let's take it further. All you've introduced Jaguar is surfaces and a new look.

And it appears to be very heavy. If it's an EV, it's going to be very heavy with the range that you claim.

I'm also looking at the center line and that fast-back shape should be one perfect arc.

If you look at that side elevation, it's a decreasing radius as it tapers to the back of the car and it makes the area right over the rear axle look flat.

It looks as if it has a flat spot. It should be one long, beautiful arc, not a flatish arc and then suddenly dropping off into a faster radius.

It's jarring to me. It needs to be one beautiful constant radius through there. Other than the first generation Porsche Panamaria got to fit people in the back seats.

That's what I'm seeing on the center line here. So that doesn't quite look very well worked out. But all right, brutalist slab. It needs patterning. It needs details because all of these surfaces without details make it awfully boring.

It's uninteresting. It's the first read, but there's nothing beyond that. And so I feel like it's an unfinished design and it's trying to match the marketing campaign where the car should have come first.

And then the marketing campaign around it. The car should have redefined it and painted any color you want and it looks gorgeous and beautiful.

OK, wow, long nose. What are you going to do with that space? I'm there in the long nose. Here's the car covered in the patterning. You're showing me. That is the camouflage patterning while it's being tested.

Suggest it is a four door. I mean, I'm very curious. We'll see what it actually looks like.

This could easily be turned into a fast back for sure. No rear glass. You know, you don't know how the rear hatch opens if it even does.

Even the hood in the front. How does that open? Does it even open? Well, it's a giant sculptural object. Hopefully you can sell it for profit. Otherwise, you've just created a slab piece of art.

And you know what? I do like some of the surfaces. If you can put color out of your mind, they're new for Jaguar. But again, none of the car matches what the marketing campaign would suggest. They're in direct conflict with each other.

I don't love the car. I think there's some interesting surfaces. There's clean surfaces. The plan view. The overhead plan view. Yeah, there's a lot of plan to this car. Those fender flares are.

They stick out there pretty well. There's a significantly wider rear track than front. OK, overhead view. Yeah. But there's a lot is going to have to change to even come close to production.

But again, if these are the color choices that are offered, that's going to turn off a lot of customers. Well, but also to the thing that you said at the beginning, which I agree with, and that is this feels like a Rolls Royce competitor. And my big question is, can Jaguar compete with Rolls Royce?

Because that's nobody's ever known it to compete with. Exactly. They've never been that. It's never been in the same sentence. I can't imagine that they're going to in this regard, which makes them an alt.

So are they a Mercedes competitor? They're definitely targeting Rolls Royce. Are they a Mercedes competitor? Who are they in the market? Because that's going to define the pricing, too. I'm very curious about this. You know what this also looks like? It also looks like Jaguar looked at the ideas for the Cadillac Celesteak and went, well, we can do our version of that.

I don't know this Celesteak is a success on design, either. It's another big four-door wagony thing. In all of Europe, where do you drive a car this large? Some of America. It does look massive, I agree.

So you're not going to want to park this thing. You're going to want to have another small car. The Aston's Signet or some other Jaguar IQ-sized, smart-sized thing that goes with this that is complimentary so you can actually park in a grocery store park.

What they haven't shown us yet is the shopping cart besides Jaguar, they're going to sell along with it that will match out. I wonder if it comes with a scooter for the last mile.

You leave this car way out in the ocean, like you do your yacht, and then you just take your tender into shore. You park it at the back of the Costco parking lot. Four miles from where you were. If you could even get it in there.

Yes, exactly. And then you take the scooter up to the store. This needs the last mile solve here.

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Cool podcast here from Tom writing in from Dallas, Texas. He says, life is too short to drive something you don't love. I couldn't agree with you more. We couldn't agree with you more.

You are commuting in the Dallas, Texas area, which means it's not fun. In fact, somehow you found, I want to know what time you're going to work because I'm have you found almost fun.

You take the highway to work and some finding some fun winding portions along the way. I don't know where that's happening in Dallas. Morning traffic flows at 85 miles an hour. You must go before dawn. That is booking.

That's a thing. When traffic flows in Texas, everybody drives that speed. I get that. But I don't understand when you're traveling because you said when you come home, it's bumper to bumper may be hitting 30 miles an hour.

Which that is what I would expect for an all freeway commute during commute times in Dallas. I'd love to know what time you go in in the morning. Clearly, it's early.

But the reality is you need a car that matches both of these and then you unpack your very Texas roots as a driver because while you're considering fun, your cars to this point have been Texas cars, a 1979 Jeep J10 pickup. You still have that. You have all of these.

A 1982 Jeep scrambler. Remember those? A 1985 Jeep scrambler. That's right. Two scramblers. I haven't seen that sentence in the history of the podcast. No, it's got scramblers.

And you you have it. You've restored it. It's awesome. And a 2013 F-150 4x4 platinum edition quad cab. And then you just inherited a 2014 Lexus ES-300H, which is the exact counterpoint with 45,000 miles.

Gifted to him by his mother-in-law when she stopped driving. These are the cars in your garage currently. And this does not include your wife's 2016 XC 90 which you prove is a great SUV. This is your right. This is not small sports car thinking. And that's where you're leaning, which is crazy.

He's got two scramblers. Two Jeep scramblers. Not one, but two Jeep scramblers. That is cool. He restored the 85 one. Completely restored it. Wow. Well, Tom has been driving this Lexus to take advantage of the approximate 37 miles per gallon. I didn't know ES-300H has got 37 miles to the gallon.

But that's pretty good. Well-appointed interior. He says it's low miles, 45,000 miles. Lexus is a nice car, but it doesn't handle the curves on the morning commute as much as he would like. It does not.

Not a surprise. On the way home, Lexus is a little too old for adaptive cruise control. It's so low that seeing around all of the trucks and SUVs in Texas is challenging.

Okay. If Tom were driving what he loves, he would drive the 85 scrambler, but that's strictly a top-off Jeep. And it gets about 12 miles to the gallon. So that's a special occasion car. He does look for any occasion to justify driving it though.

He says the Ford is the most comfortable to drive. Yes, he loves sitting up high, especially on the way home in traffic, but the gas mileage isn't too great.

And it doesn't handle the morning curves. And then of course maneuvering the F-150 in downtown streets can be challenging.

Man, I have no doubt. He does say that his wife's 2016 XC90 is great. It's got everything. It's fully loaded, adaptive cruise, lane departure.

And so when he sets the cruise on 80 and hangs behind whatever cars in front of him, that cruise will take the car all the way to a complete stop.

He doesn't have to touch the gas pedal. This is his favorite part, actually, of driving that XC90 is the commute home in it because that bumper to bumper traffic is super easy because of adaptive cruise.

And he says he typically listens to the podcast on the way home. So he just kind of zones out of traffic and he enjoys our podcast and goes, oh look, I'm here, which is great.

What Tom wants a sports car to drive to work, something engaging and fun through the curves. But he also mentioned he likes to sit up high.

Yes, that's a key thing here. So for that ride home, he wants as close to self-driving as he can get, likely an SUV with great visibility that is very comfortable. And if possible, he wants something unique and cool.

One of the things that he loves about his scrambler is that there are very few of them. And it's always a conversation starter with anyone who appreciates cars.

So he's thinking about a BMW X3, maybe an M series and the Porsche McCann S. His thinking that a sporty small SUV may let him run the morning curves at 85 miles an hour and then still have decent handling while providing the visibility he wants adaptive cruise and the comfort he wants on the way back home.

The wild card is this XC 90 because it might be available to Tom very soon because his wife is getting ready for a new car. This might turn into a two-car debate for both of them.

He says it's big and it's okay to the curves. It's certainly a good solution for that hour-long commute home.

That doesn't solve the morning problem. It doesn't solve the interesting.

Tom, what I see here is you are the perfect buyer for performance SUVs. This is why they were made for people like you. You want to have performance of a small lighter car, but you feel it's necessary to sit high.

Now I will admit I was the guy that just suffered in Texas looking at the huge differential of the massive truck in front of me because I was driving a sports car and nobody else was.

I've been there. I actually like that, but I understand you're sitting in stop and go traffic so we got to bring in adaptive cruise control, good seats, stuff that is the exact counterpoint typically for all the reasons you buy a sports car.

So Miata's need not apply here. They're small. They're not adaptive cruise control. These are the issues.

So Tom, I actually really like your BMW X3 and your Macon. They're both excellent choices. I have others for you, but that's a great start. I do think you're in the right area here because I think that's probably where you are.

I want you to look at the Genesis GV70. That is one of our very favorites in the center. That is performance version of the best.

That's great. It's going to be cheaper than the other two. It has great dynamics are very, very good to drive.

You can get them kind of however you want it's back. It has all the latest technology. I think you would enjoy that dynamically better than anything else you've been driving.

It's not a sports car, but compared everything else you're driving regularly, it would be the most dynamic thing you own.

And then it would do all the nice stuff driving home. I think that's good. I'm going to go out on a limb for a minute and say I have non SUVs to recommend because Tom, I think if you'll entertain it, you might be a hot hatch driver.

You think so. I think you should at least drive the Volkswagen GTI or the Golf R because there's going to be more luxurious.

They have a fairly high seating position, but they are ultimately a small hatchback. And a lot of these SUVs, let's be honest, are just jacked up hatchbacks.

So you're going to lose an inch or two in height for sure, but you're not on a low slung sports car.

So I feel like GTI or Golf R would do everything you want it to do incredibly well.

And if I'm in that area, then I've also got to have you look at I left hatches now, but the Audi S3. That's really good.

Is in this same category, adaptive everything, great seats. Here's a thing.

You sit in a Golf R or a GTI or an Audi S3 in stop and go traffic and you're fine.

You're fine. Yeah, adaptive everything. Everything works. It's great. Perfect. But if the road is fun, it just clings. It's just a great car to drive.

I really think those are options for you. I have a wild card, but I want to know where you went first.

You noticed that Tom has not given us a budget? I did notice. I just kind of used the X3 Macon roughly 70 to 100 grand as a reference.

We're extrapolating. And I can't decide if all my choices are for your wife's next car, but I want you to have something too.

Much as you liked that 2016 XC90, I think it could be time for it to go. Sell the Lexus, sell the Volvo. I agree.

Clean slate. I don't know if I guess you're in Texas, so you need a Ford F-150, right? You have to have it.

I don't know that he needs, but he clearly has, you've got trucks covered. Trucks are good. Trucks and jeeps are covered.

It does. If he needs trucks, he's got scramblers. Well, but you can do stuff with the scramblers. So why does he need the Ford?

Well, why do you need two scramblers? Is my question. I love that you got a 1985 Jeep scrambler.

Why does anybody need two Caymans? I want two Caymans.

Okay, fair point. All right. You're right. But you've got a 1979 J10 pickup and two scramblers plus the F-150.

Tom, haven't you covered trucks enough? It doesn't that part. Do you take these off road? I really hope you do.

I feel like one of those could go between the three jeeps and the F-150. One of them can go, but my guess is the F-150 probably isn't the one that goes.

I think you should consider selling the Ford. Consider selling the F-150. That means three cars go.

The Genesis is on my mind because Genesis is awesome. And I experienced the G90, the luxurious sedan.

Sure, yeah, yeah. It's about, it would be awesome for the slow commute home because of the self-driving capabilities that it has.

Yeah, fair. Well, now apply that to the GV80 and now think about the GV80 coupe because that's out.

Those are pushing close to 80, I think. Sure, okay. You sold three cars. You've already got a budget. Bob's your uncle.

Let's go look at GV80s. But then I think I'm wondering if that might be great for your wife as the Volvo replacement.

The GV70 here, yes, on my list, the GV80 coupe now has that 3.5 T ESC MH EV All-Wheel Drive powertrain.

But it only advertises 18 city 22 MPG highway. Not the greatest, but it does have 409 horsepower.

So now there you go. Mazda also makes the CX70 as a plug-in hybrid. That could be a consideration.

Mazda's drive great. Doesn't matter if they're big or small. They drive great.

So when you say handling the curves, I always think Mazda. Okay, maybe. But it's still, I don't know if that's quite the right car for you.

I feel like if we're going to die to things, it would be fuel economy.

Interesting. Because I want you to have something more fun. Sure. Sure.

Now, my other problem is I love your Macon on X3. If your wife gets the GV70, let's see.

Well, maybe she gets the GV80. Okay. And you've got a good SUV. But if I say, okay, get the Macon on X3, then we're A2 SUV family. But maybe you can make it work.

I like the scramblers that you've got it. I desperately want you to have a sports car, but maybe that's a future debate.

How about a BMW X5? I really enjoyed the Alpha Romeo Stelvio Compatizione.

I was so impressed by how it drove. It didn't deserve to drive as good as it does. It's superb in the corners.

60 grand. I don't know about the adaptive cruise, how advanced it is in comparison to what else we're talking about here.

Also on my list is the Acura MDX Type S for $73,000 brand new thing is a rocket.

And it's great to drive. It is great to drive. I agree with you.

Also, the Volvo XC60 Black Edition, that's newer, smaller. What if you traded in the XC90 on the XC60 Black Edition?

Yeah, the XC60 is the more agile one for sure.

But then what do we get for Tom? I looked into GM supercruise and it's only available on limited number of their vehicles right now.

The best one out of the whole bunch would be a Tahoe or a Cadillac Escalade, but they're huge. They're too big for your needs.

You don't need, I mean Cadillac has it on the XT6 and all the other Cadillacs, but whatever.

I thought of the Black Wing. You could do something Black Wing flavored. You don't have to get the manual.

You could do Black Wing and the 2025 is out. So you could consider that, but it doesn't have the sit-up high kind of thing.

So I'm back to X3. But if we do an X3, you've got to consider something M-flavored.

It's good. I have to go into wild card territory because I have a thought for you, Tom.

And I'm just wondering because you've got the old trucks covered and you're looking for something that is your commute car, okay?

You've got 25 miles worth of commute, 23 of which are on the highway. You've got some fun curves.

You're looking for the car that can surprise you with its performance, but also just not bother you with the commute parts.

Interesting balance there. I'm wondering why you're not considering any EVs.

I want you to take a serious look at the Tesla Model 3 Performance because it's going to have plenty of agility when you're having fun.

It'll go plenty fast. It has plenty of range and it has their self-driving. You can't see the air quotes, but their big air quotes.

Nobody has, by the way, public service announcement. No one has full self-driving right now.

I don't care what Tesla calls it. I don't care what Chevy calls it for. Doesn't matter. No car fully drives itself.

That goes for you, Tom, and everyone else buying.

But the Model 3 Performance does have one of the better, let's call it, smart cruise control systems on the planet.

That would work for your commute home. And then while I'm there, do you know what is really cheap if you buy a used one?

Really cheap. You're going to love this, Paul.

The Audi E-Tron. That is the Audi E-Tron GT. That is the Audi version of the Porsche Ticon.

These are $100,000 cars. A two-year-old one is 50 grand.

Are you serious? Yes. I'm going to show you this blue one right here.

2022 E-Tron, prestige pack, everything.

Steves 23,516 miles for 54,388.

Yep. And that's just one. I've got a page of them in front of me right here on Autotimpost.

Those are dropping like stones. So does the Ticons, but the Ticons started higher.

I'm saying with 50 grand in your pocket, you could get yourself a barely used E-Tron.

Audi E-Tron, it has all the adaptive everything you want.

That's really good.

Really nice automobile to be in. They're fun to drive, especially for an EV.

For his short distance. And you're going to have plenty of range.

I really think EV might be your answer here because you've got all the other stuff covered.

And I think you could get Model 3 Performance or Audi E-Tron.

I think the E-Tron GT, the E-Tron is a SUV.

I'm talking the GT, which is the four-door sloped back coupe-looking car that's like the Ticon.

The E-Tron GT could really be the answer here.

So I want you to look at those for sure.

Okay, that's really good. I'm going to blur the lines even further because now I'm recalling every automotive outlet on the planet

calls the Hyundai Ionic 5 NSUV.

Fair.

Even though I think it's a hot hatch.

Yes.

It's technically an SUV and you do kind of sit up hires.

So high enough, that's a great one.

I like it. Yeah.

Well, I'm trying to combine performance driving and seats because of the commute.

You spend so much time in good seats.

So that's why I gravitated towards the Volvo and the BMW's Tom.

But that Hyundai Ionic 5N is really actually fun to drive.

So if we're talking EVs, brand new, those are 70.

The seats are very supportive because they're performance seats.

They're designed for high performance driving and they're far more supportive than normal run of the mill or mill kinds of seats.

The Audi seats in the E-Tron are real good, but this I5N could be a consideration because of your short range.

It's a performance EV hatch, for sure.

Which means it's much lower on the range, but who cares?

It's not going to matter for his usage and it is the set up higher thing.

It's time to performance.

It's higher because it's like that.

It lowers the line between, is it a hot hatch?

Is it an SUV?

It's kind of both.

And self-driving, I think it's fine.

It's going to be just adaptive cruise control.

And if that's what you like, but for an EV, fine.

And you know what, that's interesting.

It's an interesting car because you said also unique things you don't see.

That's going to be the not everybody chooses that kind of car.

Agreed.

So it fills that need for you to have the unique kind of thing.

Huh, who knew we wind up there, but that might be the answer for you, Tom.

Tom, thank you so much.

If you've got a debate like Tom's right to us everyday driver TV at gmail.com,

we'd love hearing your debates and also your car conclusions and topic Tuesdays too.

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Questions, questions, questions.

You guys are awesome with the questions you throw at us before we do these podcasts.

We always ask for them on our social media channels, so thank you for that.

We've got a lot of really cool stuff coming up in 2025.

We can't wait to share with you guys, but we will keep you updated right here on the podcast with our adventures, road trips.

We've got a big thing coming for podcast 1000, lots of hooked on driving stuff that we're going to attend.

So we'll keep you informed and all of that.

That'll be on the podcast social media everywhere, but these questions, we ask for them here.

We also pull them off of Discord.

All of our patrons are on our Discord channel.

We love that community.

It's really cool. Lots of cool questions come from there as well.

I'm going to start with Thomas Downey, who's on our Discord.

Good. Thank you.

What are your thoughts on sharing ownership of a dedicated fun car with a friend,

where each person pays half the cost and upkeep?

Our friend Dale does this too.

Yeah, I know.

With that Carmen Gia.

No, a few people to do this.

Thomas, here's the thing.

I think it's great if it's not your only fun car.

If it's the alt, because if you both are fighting for the same fun car,

you're going to want it on the same days for the same events.

If you both have a fun car and you think together,

wouldn't it be cool to have access to fill in the blank?

What other car we're talking about?

Then you can share it, and then it's not like,

well, I can't drive a fun car today because the other guy has it.

There's no jealousy now, because now it's the extra.

I think that's the only way it works.

I don't think you can share a singular fun car among two people

and you have no other fun car to go to.

It really depends on what it is, because when maintenance bills come due,

are you going to split it 50-50 right down the middle,

even if it's a big expense?

Suddenly, you're faced with a $2,500 bill.

Yeah, are you just going to suck it up and say,

okay, we'll just split it.

Have these right down the middle, but then do you have a sign-up sheet?

Do you invent your own app?

I was hoping for the car that weekend too.

Oh, you want it, shoot.

That's why you have to have another fun car in the mix.

It's got to be the third car.

You and your buddy each have fun cars, and this is the third car.

But I want access to it all the time.

It's my problem.

This is the problem we have.

This is me to buy the car and take over all the means.

I understand, yes.

This is the problem.

Carl Schultz asks me about my parents.

He said, did he hear correctly that my parents got a brand new Hyundai Sonata?

How is it?

How do we like it?

We actually have a piece coming up on Christmas Day,

where we do a distance challenge, which is a diesel 1970s rabbit

built by our friend Richard Greo.

Because he wanted to show off what diesel could do.

We have a lucid air and we have a Hyundai Sonata hybrid.

My parents not get the hybrid.

They got the standard car, but they got it with all-wheel drive.

It's a surprisingly good car.

Here's the thing.

It's one of those cars where I knew the market they were looking in, Honda,

Ford, Toyota Camry, the new Sonata all now available with all-wheel drive.

When they told me what they found, they got it in a nice red color,

and the deal they got on it, you know what?

It is perfect for them.

I am astonished to this day that they bought it.

They both are loving it, and I'm thrilled that they have it.

It's been very good for them.

Glad to hear.

On Instagram, Zach Vandenhouten asks,

what struggling automaker would we have the most confidence in saving

if either of us became CEO,

unless it's Volkswagen feel free to move on?

All right, fair enough.

You've heard the podcast recently.

Well done.

Good.

You're implying that every car company needs saving.

What's struggling automaker?

Okay.

Nissan is struggling.

Jag is struggling a lot.

Yeah, just a lantus.

Really lost in the woods.

Yeah.

All the brands of Stellantis.

I'm not confident in saving Chrysler.

It's legacy, but I think they need to let that car company

that brand die.

Go away.

Okay.

Yeah.

Maserati needs to stay where they're at

because they can't be all things to all people.

Alpha's cool.

I'd love to save them.

Do they need saving?

But I want a nice mix.

I want the next generation of the 4C,

along with whatever other SUVs they've got planned.

But I don't think they're going to do that.

I think they're all in with SUVs from here on out.

If Chrysler has all many vans and Alpha has all SUVs,

pick one.

What's the point?

What is the differentiation between the two brands?

Is it just where they're built?

Yikes.

Dodge kind of needs saving.

I feel like Dodge is having to pivot big time.

I think Dodge needs saving.

Okay.

All right.

I think I would choose Dodge.

I'll leave it to you.

That's great.

Jared Byer says if we had a movie style high speed chase

in a big city, like the opening of the movie Baby Driver,

what car would we choose for this high speed chase?

He said things to consider in your right.

The things to consider are balance of performance, handling and stealth.

And of course, I think of it like Baby Driver,

meaning it's the bank getaway car.

What is the thing you're trying to leave the city in,

but is not drawing too much attention to itself?

The answer is this,

gray or black,

cayenne turbo,

because in any downtown area,

there's going to be 15 of them.

There's going to be others just,

and there's another cayenne going,

because the turbo and any other cayenne

doesn't look different enough that you're going to be like,

oh, well, that's clearly not the same car.

So you're going to, there's going to be other cayens in gray and black

just rolling around.

I mean, here in Park City,

they're a plague.

That's why we have two.

Anyway, but,

but downtown areas,

but the cayenne turbo is going to speed

and performance wise,

do anything you need,

and it's got the hatch

in the back for all the loot.

The loot.

Tell of you.

Could a Cadillac Escalade V series

fall into this category

if it were totally blacked out

to make it look like a

a livery Uber black car?

Yes.

You'd have to put the livery

like the number on the back

as if it's something you could use.

Like totally the white number.

You just drive it,

you just drive it slowly,

sit at the light,

ignore the cops.

Exactly.

Take it out of the sport mode.

That could be,

because I think, you know,

my brain instantly takes it

to slapstick.

Excellent.

Perfect.

And so it's going to be something

like a Yaris,

but it's a GR Yaris.

And it's super quick and

you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah, I got you.

It's gray or black or whatever

boring color,

and yes, those are all the

barn colors,

but still it's got this engine

that you didn't expect,

but I can nimbly move

to places where

you know,

I can drive down stairwells

is really what I wanted.

Mini Cooper.

That's why it was good.

Mini Cooper.

Exactly, yeah.

There you go.

Cooper S.

JCW Mini Cooper.

Of course.

Okay.

Cable S9 says,

what's the best OEM plus or OE style

interior upgrade?

Cable S just added in a

wireless car play,

head unit,

into his 2012 WRX,

and it feels like a brand new car.

But with OEM recarrows

or maybe a steering wheel

from a later year STI

make just as big of a difference.

Certainly the things

that you interact with

and you name them all.

Steering wheel you touch,

seats you sit in,

and you're always interacting

with tech.

Those are the top three

in my mind.

It really depends on

what you're going to do

with car.

If you're commuting,

upgrade the tech

in a heartbeat.

Seats are seconds.

Steering wheel's third.

But if you're doing

performance driving

and you're looking at interior mods,

seats are way, way up there.

But it's got a kind of fit.

It's got a kind of match

to what you're doing.

If you're going to upgrade seats,

well, that instantly

indicates

you're kind of making a track car.

You're kind of building

a performance car here.

So, okay.

Other interior bets need

to be unscrewed and throw it away then.

So, what are you doing?

Tech is always

such a great place to improve.

Ralph is writing in

with a mini car debate.

He currently owns

a 2023 C8 Corvette Z512LT.

Not that dissimilar

from the one that we have.

It's his very first sports car.

He bought it brand new.

He built it exactly

to his spec.

It is a dream come true car.

I want it just like this.

And that's how it showed up.

But then,

he bought his wife

for 2025 Porsche Macon

as the daily

and his wife's car.

And was like,

this Macon is awesome.

And he said

that we've compared the

Cayman and the C8

and we had high praise

for each but we felt like

the Cayman came out

for better feedback.

It did on the day

we first drove it.

And then he said,

here's what this gets difficult.

You're now pondering

should you trade the C8

for a new Cayman GTS40?

So we did that review as well.

Cayman GTS40,

RC8,

and the first time we drove

the Lotus Amir,

we put those three together.

And these cars

are so on top of each other

that it really,

which one is our preference?

It kind of depends

on the day on the road.

That's how much

they're on top of each other.

So your question is,

now that you've had

the Macon and you're very

impressed with Porsche

and the fit and finish

and the feel of that car,

would we advise selling the C8

which only has

6,000 kilometers on it

to get the Cayman GTS40?

So the Delta

is $50,000 Canadian

dollars.

If he sells the C8

and he goes to the Cayman,

it's $50,000.

Ralph, I don't think

you go Cayman

and you're happy

you spent the extra

to do it.

You'll be unhappy

that you spent the money,

but still you'll have a

rock and a Cayman GTS40.

They're very cool.

The Cayman GTS40,

they're great.

Watch that review

with the C8 and the Amirah

and really figure out

how it resonates with you

because it'll help you.

But I think the fact

that you have exactly

the C8 you want

and you're enjoying it so much.

It's a genuinely

special car

and it doesn't feel

like a Porsche.

You have the Porsche

experience over in the

Macon.

I'm not saying a Macon

and Cayman are the same,

but they have similarities.

You have the Porsche

experience with the Macon.

That big C8

V8 experience

is unique and fun

and it's yours.

I don't know

that the $50,000

is worth it

for the upgrade.

I don't think so either.

And I challenge you

to drive that Corvette

and allow yourself

to drive it

in situations

where you would never

choose to drive it.

Bad weather,

bad situation.

Yes.

Just going out for milk.

Drive it.

Take it out.

If you want to get

PPF fine.

If you want to get

wear tires.

If you want to

protect your investment.

But right now

with only 6,000 kilometers,

you might as well

drive it.

You might as well

put some miles out

and go really enjoy it

and drive it

in all the situations.

The dumb situations

where I'm driving

to get milk

in a rainstorm.

Yes.

Go do that.

See how it does

and then that will

loosen you up

and feel more free

to just take it

on road trips.

I want you to extract

more out of the car

because you haven't had

enough.

You haven't driven it out.

I agree.

Yeah.

Before you even consider

what's next.

Because you've got to say

I'm finished with that

car I'm ready to move on

to justify that jump in price.

Because right now

I don't think it's there either.

Guys, thank you

for all your questions.

Really appreciate it.

We're looking forward

to seeing how Jaguar

is accepted by the market.

I'm very curious about all

of it.

I genuinely am very curious.

I would like them

to succeed but this is

such a departure.

I'm curious

from afar.

I just want to,

like if it turns into

a car crash over there

and just like Jaguar

disintegrates.

I just want to watch

from afar.

Enjoy.

I mean, we'll see.

But Jaguar has done

something different.

We'll say that.

There we go.

Yes.

Thank you for all your

questions.

As I said, we're

looking forward to next time.

As always,

cheers everyone.

Thank you.

953: The Last-Mile Solution, Jacked Up Hatchbacks, Driving Down Stairwells

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