966: Twelve Is The Magic Number, Guilt-Free Spending, The Rolls-Royce Mulligan

Love them or hate them, everyone has an opinion on cars. But we believe we're all one great car away from being our enthusiast. So we're here to help you find a car you love. And let it take us to everything else in life. I'm Paul. I'm Todd and this is the everyday driver car debate. Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Happy Tuesday. We're glad to have you back on the podcast. We have a lot going on today. We've got a really cool topic. Tuesday about power to weight. That sounds like we're going to talk about tires. Sounds like one of those things is going to get boring. But it's actually kind of fast.

We've got to talk about that. We've got a really cool car debate. The tires aren't boring. It's a great question. They're not. But it is kind of YouTube death. It really is. But we're happy to talk about them anyway. It's very important. Absolutely. You're happy right now actually because of what happened this weekend. I am the Daytona 24 hour results for 2025. Porsche took the top slot. That means they have one Daytona 20 times. 20. Then it was accurate. Second place. Acura pipped the second place. Porsche surprised them. But it was Porsche.

Acura Porsche for the top three. But cool to see that the Mustang GT3 took the win for GTD Pro. And a Corvette 06 GT3 R won the GTD class. So it's nice to have Inza racing back and cool to see some of the highlights from that. Move it on to a piece of news from Alpha Romeo. We're seeing many car companies changing their minds about their strategy moving forward. And we've said for a long time. It's been tough for car companies worldwide to keep up not just with EV versus ice ice versus EV. What is our product portfolio?

Look like they're also policy regulations from governments worldwide. So it sounds like they're backing away from the claims. They're just going EV. And they're going to continue on with gas engines, which means it's hopefully cool sounding. Alphas from here on out because they sound like options. I mean, they're talking about a range of propulsion, which is something you and I've been saying for I hate to say this way like five, six years at least that there's going to be all kinds of stuff available, which is what they're looking at now, which is cool, including the fact that they are talking about replacing

both the Julia Sedan and the Stelvio SUV. Those of course were originally on the product planning board as all EVs. Now they will come back probably with some sort of internal combustion engines, hybrids, plugins, lots of things.

The Julia cannot just be plopped on the Dodge Charger platform that new EV and like, why is the Julia so bloated?

Yeah, they're counting on using that platform, which if you haven't seen it in person is truly massive. So I just I'm waiting to see how that platform can be adapted because frankly,

the Stelvio and the Julia do not need to be that big. In fact, the charger doesn't need to be that big, but my Lord, is it large?

I really want to drive one, but they are big lots of great hooked on driving upcoming events starting in February, Thunder Hill Raceway,

Park three mile for bringing the ninth Laguna, Seika famous Laguna, Seika February 15th, Ridge Motorsports Park March 7th and 8th, 2025.

And our signature nationwide event is circuit of the Americas. Yeah, that is the weekend after Memorial Day, 2025.

So May 31st and June 1st, it is going to be a very big deal because it coincides with podcast episode 1000.

Yeah, it does.

So we're going to be doing that live at the event, as well as a two day track day.

We're going to have vendor row.

Everyone's invited.

If you have never been with your car on track at circuit of the Americas, this is your chance.

And I should acknowledge a couple of things are going on.

We had a really good question this weekend.

I want to clarify this, you can go to the adventures tab on our everyday driver website right now.

And that will get you to the sign up for the track day of Coda, but please don't misunderstand me.

There's going to be stuff before the Coda event and after the Coda event, we're doing a big road trip prior.

We're doing a road trip after.

As Paul said, there's going to be vendor row, cars and coffee, the ability to be there for the podcast.

The only thing that has a registration portal right now is track time.

So there will be lots of other information coming out in the month to come.

We're still locking all that down.

There will be the ability to register or to sign up for various other things.

It just doesn't exist right now, but it is coming.

So please know that that's that's the kind of the center of the event is the track days and everything will be built around it.

And there's more information as we lock it all down.

Mark Matias, Cody Russo and Santi Garcia own the HOD Northeast region.

And they are having a bash for July 4th.

If you've never been to Watkins Glen, it is a three day event July 4, 5 and 6.

It includes a car show from 607 Motorsports and Friday night past.

It is going to be a monster event really cool.

You don't even have to be on track.

If you want to come, there's going to be a firework show.

There's going to be so much going on.

But of course, we do encourage you to get on track with those guys.

They're doing such a great job and it's going to be an incredible event at Watkins Glen.

And then finally, the everyday driver pilgrimage has gone live.

Yeah, it is the last week of April 2025.

If you can find it at everydaydriver.com slash adventures, all the details are there.

Registration is open.

We would love to have you a day on the ring, a day at Spa Francher Shaw and a road tour in between.

It's going to be great.

You've been saving your money all this time, right?

You should have been saving your money because we want you with us.

Of course, the price changes depending on the car that you get.

But we still will be sharing some road trip time.

So you can still experience all the cars 20 kilometers an hour through

some small German towns you've never heard of and some de-restricted all of

one time too.

So there is always that but we invite you to the pilgrimage trip, everyday driver.com slash adventures.

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So we have a cool topic Tuesday that fits exactly in the premise of a topic Tuesday.

It's those conversations you get into with your crazy car buddies that don't have an answer

that also probably won't have a conclusion.

Somebody's going to pick it up a week from now and restart the argument.

And it's one of those things that fundamentally doesn't matter, but it's fun to talk about.

The discussion here comes from Lewis, who's writing in and he's saying, look, he agrees that

a light car is more fun than a heavy car, but it's got him thinking about what's the

ideal weight, which is impossible.

But then to flip it around the other way, what's the ideal power to weight?

He's really curious to know if we have a thought on this and does the ratio change as

the car gets heavier lighter.

What do we find the primary power to weight?

He sent us a Google sheet for research that breaks these down, breaks down cars by power.

It is a crazy sheet.

And the whole reason this comes from is because he has a 1997 Honda Dell

Soul project, which means I'm going to go ahead and read into that.

It doesn't currently run.

Okay.

He said a Honda Dell Soul project that he really is going to upgrade the power train.

And he's curious what we think would make the most enjoyable experience possible.

That's the entrance point to this.

But the question is, what's the ideal power to weight?

Well, we've discussed my range for power.

That is already established up to 150 to 600 horsepower being the sweet spot.

It's the sweet swath, my friend.

There's no spot in there.

It's a huge swath of vehicle's quality.

It's super narrow with all the 1000 horsepower EVs, 200 horsepower, you have removed

most EVs from your list with that.

This is the sweet spot.

Yeah, that's good.

Lewis, I want to know where you got this Google doc because he shared this with us.

And you're right.

It seems to be something that you found online somewhere because I noted that

your Lotus Elise was not named in here.

There's quite a few cars in it.

Do you have the numbers?

Oh, yeah, I did some dig in and then I did some calculating.

I had thoughts.

I did math.

The top fuel drag car is listed as number one on the list because the curb weight is

2,300 pounds and it has 7,000 horsepower.

7,000 seems a little rookie, a little light on those numbers.

I've heard up to 10,000 tons of fuel, but we'll go with a measly 7,000

horsepower only weighing 2,300 pounds.

So the power to weight ratio is 304.35.

That seems pretty ideal.

There's also a giant wing on the back and the tires go square when they're under

full acceleration at 300 miles an hour.

Quarter mile time of three and a half seconds.

That's very fast, but then this list also has cognizeg.

It's got Yamaha R1, the sport bikes on here.

They were on SS, catering sevens on here, all the fun, cool sports cars,

kind of throughout history.

And we scroll all the way down to the bottom of the list.

There's Prius's, there's Protons, there's the PT cruiser.

Why did the PT cruiser make this list?

I don't know.

And your Lotus didn't.

It seems like a list that's sorely in need of updating with all the great cool

new cars, but there is some interesting stuff to ref power.

We needed to decide on weight and it can't just weigh zero pounds with a bunch of

arrow.

True.

I mean, at least there's a, there's a question here that comes up kind of

behind it.

And that is if horse power was all that mattered, this car goes faster than

other cars.

Then by default, the fastest electric out there would be the most fun car to drive.

And I'll put it another way.

Every electric car out there right now would be more fun than every gas car

right now because in general, the electrics have more power to weight than the gas

cars do.

This is why you can have a five or six thousand pound electric car that's still

doing zero to 60 in like three seconds because the power is obscene.

But we all agree and Paul and I've driven every electric we can find.

It right now, the most fun cars out there aren't EVs.

There's a lot of things EVs do well, but I would not put EVs on the list for all.

These are the most fun things I've driven.

Now there are EVs that actually are good dynamically, but again, I wouldn't

put them as the most fun.

And this is the place where this argument gets so interesting regularly because

invariably, we will have some video about some car that is lightweight with low

power.

And someone will enter the comments and just say, whoa, my blank huge SUV massive

electric, whatever has this amount of power.

There's no possible way that car could be fun.

And I'm going to say it again, I may be on a little bit too much in this conversation.

More horsepower does not equal more fun.

If it did, EVs just win.

Yeah.

And with this list, we can also really try to avoid adding weight but adding

power at the same time because there is still a tipping point.

Even though BMW continues to defy belief with things like a twin turbo

V8 putting out 717 horsepower and they're in five touring.

I mean, that sounds amazing.

And you know what, I bet it is probably pretty great to drive.

Sure it is.

Yeah, we are here to find out.

However, you can't just keep going up in the weight scale with EVs and

saying, well, the power makes up for it.

So therefore the ratio is still the same.

It's much like talking about a 16 by nine ratio screen in that

16 by nine, there can be 1920 by 1080 HD, yes.

And then you can also pack a whole lot more pixels into that ratio.

You can jump up twice as much as 4K.

Yes.

I mean, you've even talked about 8K being used in the film industry, but it's

still in a 16 by nine ratio, generally, yes.

There's also a tipping point where we've gotten to five, six thousand pound

cars, but they have all this power, but that doesn't mean they're fun.

That doesn't mean they're good to drive.

So what is the sweet spot?

What is the tipping point?

There could be too much power because 400 horsepower in a 3,000 pound car.

It's quite a lot.

There's your Cayman GTS 40.

There's your Cayman GT4, a fast, capable, amazing car.

Do we want more power?

Did it make the car more fun?

And Lewis, whatever ratio we arrive at is the sweet spot.

Did the car get more fun?

Yeah.

And that's a much bigger thing.

And I have actually, because I have done this math before, I have a kind

of, I'll give my own sweet swath here.

It's going to be powered away, but anyway, I have a way that I calculate this

and the cars that I think work fall into my ratio here.

But the reality is that dynamics and driver involvement are almost always

going to be more rewarding than sheer power.

And if I wasn't right, the Miata wouldn't sell.

Yeah.

Okay.

The Miata is not a powerful car.

Nobody's debating it as a powerful car, but I'm going to use that as my

entrance into the ratio that I think works.

And the number that I typically use is how many pounds of car is each

horsepower tasked with moving.

Very easy math here.

I'm not great at math, but I did a lot of math for this discussion.

What is the weight of your car?

Yeah.

Divide that by the horsepower number.

That number there is the one I'm talking about.

And I find that cars have got to have better than something in the 12's.

12 and better, 12 pounds per horsepower.

That can be 12.9.

I'm saying anywhere in the 12's, but something where that number is 12 pounds

per horsepower tasked with it or less.

If you get in a single digits, by the way, a car is running six or eight pounds

per horsepower, that car is going to feel fast to you no matter what.

Okay.

And some of the electrics are pulling this off.

All right.

Let me give you some cars to actually break this down because the other thing

that matters here is power delivery.

Now the thing we're not calculating is torque.

Torque matters.

Okay.

Does a car have power down low?

EVs have all the power down low.

You breathe on the accelerator and you're moving quickly.

But cars, people love old porches, Honda S2000s.

They don't have power down low.

You got to wind him to oblivion to find the power.

Do you find that satisfying?

Where is the fun for you in power delivery?

Now, I submit the more that we commute, the more we are obsessed with the car

must feel blindingly fast off the line.

But I also think if you want to engage with a car, you need the power

up high.

You want to go look for it.

But that's personal preference.

Let me get into some of these numbers real quick.

Okay.

I think anything in the 12s, now again, this is 12 pounds per horsepower or

better is generally a fun car.

The original fourth gen MX-5 Miata, the ND, when they first released at the ND

one, had 158 horsepower.

It wasn't very satisfying to drive it felt under power.

That's 14 and a half pounds per horsepower.

The ND two and above with the upgraded engine is 181 horsepower.

Wait, did you see the NA was that way?

No, the ND, the ND, the current, the current model,

14 MX-5, exceeding your 12 limit.

Yes, it was too slow.

We didn't find it satisfying.

That 158 horsepower was 14 and a half pounds per horsepower.

We were like, this just needs more power.

But then they gave it the better engine, they gave it the better engine.

Yes, the ND two and ND three.

So the current way you can buy it has 181 horsepower.

So that's 12.7.

Isn't this fascinating?

Yeah, I'm going to keep going.

Okay, I've got more for you.

The Elise, the Elise that I have is 180 horsepower.

Thought it was 190.

It's 1950 pounds with 180 horsepower, approximately.

That's 10.8 pounds per horsepower.

That's why you can't.

10.8, right there.

Okay, but here's the argument, 180 horsepower.

What's going on?

What, that's nothing.

That's our rookie numbers.

I'll go you one more.

The 86, the 86 is in the 12s now with the horsepower increase.

It's 284 horsepower and what's 2800 pounds?

Yeah, about 28, almost 2900.

It's in the mid 12s.

Even at 2900, it's still in the 12s.

I'm not saying fast, but it's satisfying.

Okay.

So this is the interesting thing about this.

I feel like for me personally, it's got to be 12s or better.

But once you get into 10 or below, here's one for you.

My Amira, 3200 pounds, 400 horsepower.

That's about eight.

It's in the eights.

Uh-huh.

That feels quite satisfying to drive.

I have a question for you with this newly formed recipe.

Okay.

This newly created algorithm, 12 is the magic number.

Anything in the 12s, roughly 12 ish pounds per horsepower or less pounds per

horsepower, roughly.

So most EVs like a tycon or an e-tron GT are 5,000 pounds.

Stand back everyone.

I'm going to do math.

Uh-oh.

Okay, I'm waiting.

So a 5,000 pound, 5,000 pound SUV, uh, we'll call it the tycon.

5,000 pound tycon, a sporty, electric, fun card.

Yeah, it's a portion, right?

Divide that by 12, right?

12 pounds should help you arrive at the ideal horsepower that car should have.

Oh, that's interesting.

I see where you're going.

416.

That's my point.

I did that math and I arrived at 416 to be the sweet spot for a 5,000 pound SUV or

EV and most of them are right about 5,000 pounds.

Therefore, they don't need to have more than 416 horsepower.

I see your calculation.

I see you did it reverse.

Look at you.

Where do it math?

Is that correct?

I, I, I, I, to the fun cutoff, if it's, if it's 12 pounds, then the horse power

number for a 5,000 pound EV until they start getting lighter is 416 horsepower,

which is smack dab in my 250 to 600 horsepower sweet spot.

Okay.

It is dead center, baby.

416 horsepower is the amount of power to have fun.

By the way, came in GT4s have 414 just saying, well, the,

so they're close to the sweet spot.

I'm pretty sure that the base tycon is right about 400 horsepower,

which puts it at 12.5.

So that is the most fun and therefore the best bang for the buck,

because if you get the higher horse power car, well,

it's sure you've got more power, but I'm going to say it doesn't get more fun.

It might get how do we quantify the more fun past 116 horsepower?

See, see this, this is now personal preference because when you get,

they, I'll go, I'll go you another one.

What was the, the lucid air was 6,500 pounds, right?

Oh, no.

I thought it was like 50.

No, it was 5, it was 56.

So I get my number back, yeah, 5,600 pounds.

Yeah, that one we had was 850 horsepower, right?

836 and a half pounds per horsepower.

But it's a half and in a straight line, it's really impressive.

It's a bullet, but did it get more fun in the handling department?

No, I submit.

No, and it handles well, it handles well, but none of us are taking that car on a

fun road over a smaller sports car who's carrying around more pounds per

horsepower.

OK, until that car, that size gets lighter, it's not going to be more fun,

but it's on the right side of this equation.

It is, yeah, it's very easily, it should be the most fun.

But I submit to you, it is not.

There are actually lighter cars that ease more towards the middle here.

Better sweet spot.

I stand by the 12, roughly 12 something pounds per horsepower or less is

where fun happens.

And frankly, you don't, the single digit stuff is really fast.

The stuff that is is carrying around single digit pounds per horsepower is

really, really rare.

And in any case, it's unusable.

The lucid air, but I thought that the Indy Miata was a fascinating thing

to watch how as they change the horsepower figure on that ND,

it worked its way into my equation.

So there we go, ND, the first iteration of it was on the wrong side.

It was light 14 and a half pounds per horsepower, but it was outside the 12

magic number.

And that wasn't even the 1.5 liter that they sell elsewhere in the world.

Does that mean those are not fun?

I mean, fun, but here's there could be more fun if you added power.

And here's what reduced power in this lucid, you pay less and you

quantifiably don't get that much more fun.

See, this is the thing that's hard because we all want to say more, more

horsepower is better.

We just want to say we want to believe it.

We're all raised as car people to believe that has how much horsepower.

It's that same thing we used to do as kids where you leaned in to look at what

the top number was on the speedo.

Yeah, and that says 180 and that meant the car will go.

This car must go 180 if it's being dropped from a crane.

Yes.

So this is that thing we want to believe that number is better, but not necessarily.

It's that's never the key thing.

And it does matter how you actually calculate this out.

So I'm going to say I looked at all this thinking about your Dell soul.

Your Honda Dell soul.

It weighs about 2300 pounds.

It came from the factory with a 106 horsepower.

That number doesn't work very well, but that's about the same weight.

As the Indy Miata.

So I'm going to say to you, you need roughly 160 to 180 horsepower in your

Dell soul.

And it's going to feel like a rocket ship.

But if you break 200, it's going to borderline feel like too much.

What does an S2000 weigh about 23, 2400?

Okay.

So about the same as a Dell soul.

And what does that have close to 240 right around?

Yeah, a little over 200.

Yeah, I say double your horsepower in the Dell soul to at least get to fun.

I think you can for sure.

Yeah, it's not maximum strength.

It's just strength.

It's good.

It's good stuff.

I mean, we want to believe that the more power is better, but it isn't always

more fun.

Balance does matter.

And see that's that's the thing about these, these cars that are carrying

around like this 14 and a half horsepower in the original Indy Miata.

I'm just going to say they're real quick.

Okay, it wasn't that car wasn't fun.

It was.

I still don't fit in it, but it was fun.

But the problem was you're driving at the entire time.

Knowing it's disappointing you in power, it should have a little more.

And you can't get past it.

This was the feeling in the difference between.

And I'm not saying that the current GR86 is some horsepower feed.

It isn't.

I know it isn't 220 horsepower, but the difference.

It did get you into the 12s.

The first gen didn't that's wild.

And the whole time you drive it, you just kind of think shouldn't this have

more and you get into the new one.

And I'm not saying it can't have more because of course it could.

And then people are gone crazy.

But you drive the new one and you go, oh, it's pretty good.

Yes, it just over the hump of being like, this should have more into a place

where you're like, yeah, this feels pretty good.

The, the Evora, the original Evora was 300 horsepower.

And the Evora S was almost four.

What are those?

Wait, what is what are the non supercharged about about 1,300 pounds?

So let's see that's about 10 weight of a Cayman.

So it had 300 horsepower.

That is in the tens, but the whole time you drove the car, I remember driving

on track and just thinking this car can handle more.

And you get up to, I believe it was 416 horsepower when the car was finally

the GT and it was about 3200 pounds.

So let's divide that by math is happening real time, folks.

Wait, 7.7.

Did you just say it was 416 horsepower?

I believe so.

Yeah, that's the magic number.

That's, that's it.

416 horsepower is the threshold.

So that means of four GTs are the most fun car ever.

Hands down, not debatable, right?

Anything at 416 horsepower.

I'm pretty sure that's the number for the GT is the most fun car.

Cayman GT fours are just two horsepower shy.

So they're almost the most fun car.

This is my takeaway here.

Okay, so accidentally we have discovered on this podcast that 416 horsepower

is the magic number for maximum.

I don't know how it happened.

Everyone and it's right.

Like I said, it's in the dead center of my horsepower swath.

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Adam in Nashville writes to us about trying to rediscover the fountain of youth,

also known as guilt-free spending money.

Sure, that happens, right?

Adam needs advice.

Advice is capitalized.

That means it's important.

He currently drives an Audi Q4 and while he likes the practicality of an SUV,

he's not sure he wants his next car to be an EV,

so he won't be buying out his lease.

Okay.

He wants to get into something more sporty to take him back to his youth.

He's been touring cars that interest him.

He's driven a 2021 Macon S.

Okay.

2017 manual came in.

He says it might be a little too rich for my blood, for insurance and maintenance,

but he loved it.

And a 2018 Miata manual.

He said he loved that too, not a lot of storage space.

If only, there was a car that had better storage and drove like Miata, that would be the one,

but we got suggestions.

He drove a small 1993 Nissan pickup truck manual all through high school,

and to this day, it is his favorite thing to drive because his dad kept it,

and he drives it whenever he visits his dad.

It's got 10 horsepower.

That's not in the sweet spot.

But, well, but it only weighs two pounds.

So, you know, if we do this equation, it probably does okay.

Now, we can do it all matters.

Negative numbers.

Yeah, we are.

My head hurts.

Well, then Adam got an Acura RSX Type S in college,

and then into his young working life.

And he got a few tickets, including getting arrested for speeding.

He said, why there was a cop out in the boonies at 2 a.m., he will never know because of you.

Well, but no, no, here's what happened.

That cop was headed home.

Oh, he lives in the boonies.

He was headed home.

You would buy him so fast he had no choice, but he'd be like, I have to get that job.

I guess I'm working.

That's what's happening.

He got tired of daily manual because he was driving so much.

So, he made a responsible big boy move and bought a V6 Accord Coupe,

and drove that for 10 years, and now he's in the Audi.

Okay.

With a budget of $60,000, he needs something practical.

He can put his golf clubs in and haul a big golden retriever.

But it needs to be fun to drive.

He's in an area of Nashville that has small,

hilly and windy roads and wants to take advantage of them.

He also works from home, and he only drives about 5,000 miles a year,

so not that much anymore.

But there's been a big discussion going on in Discord,

because I said in the last podcast, then I stand by it.

If you're driving a car less than 2,000 miles a year,

you should consider getting rid of that car.

This has sterile in the space.

Yeah, you are.

This has created conversation on Discord,

including folks that were like,

well, I only drive 1,400 miles a year in Miami,

but all I do is auto cross it.

I was like, well, that's a good exception.

That's appropriate, because that car,

that car is being driven at the edges of itself,

just not more than 2,000 miles a year.

Yeah.

Well, he's definitely thinking used,

as long as the car has been taken care of,

he doesn't mind the mileage.

And since he doesn't drive much,

a manual is back on the table of it.

After driving the McCahn with the PDK,

and automatic isn't out of the question,

and he liked that too.

Aren't PDKs great?

I think they're great.

So, he's open to one car that spits the specs,

spits the facts.

Perfect, love it.

That's the way we want it.

If we have an idea for a two-car stack

that is within his budget, he's good with that as well.

And he's found the love of driving again.

He thinks that he had back when he had the Nissan

and the Alcura.

I love it.

He doesn't vacation much.

He doesn't have expensive hobbies.

And he is actively setting himself up for retirement.

So, with all this guilt-free spending money,

he wants to get back to the fun of driving.

Love it.

The car of it all.

Adam, it took me a while to arrive at the choice that I have for you.

Okay.

I started off thinking,

well, what you need is the bread van.

Are the clowns shoe and 1999 BMW M-Coup,

but they're turning up.

Of course, just go get that.

Maybe it's good.

Golden Retriever Golf Clubs.

There's a lot of stuff to fit in this thing.

Then it took me to a BMW M3 of some sort.

I thought of that M430i Cabriolet that we liked.

It was just easy and great to drive.

It's a bit of a larger car,

but Golf Clubs could go in the trunk.

Golden Retriever can bounce around the interior.

And then I thought, well, if we're going to go that far,

how about an M3 cab?

Because, sure, nobody wants a hard top M3,

but what about an M3 Cabriolet?

I bounced around ideas of Corvette's and Supra's.

I thought of Ford Focus RS,

GR86, many coupers,

and then throughout my search history,

I have come to the realization that

Honda needs to bring the CRX back.

Yeah, that was cool.

It's too cool, a little car.

Be reincarnated with 416 horsepower.

Clearly, because that's the number.

Yeah, that might be a bit of a hot rod.

So be careful.

Those front tires will always need to be replaced.

Melt always.

Still, doesn't everybody think the CRX needs to make a comeback?

They were super cool.

They're tiny.

They're great.

Considering all of this,

I tried to think of your needs,

because golf clubs, you're in Nashville,

the sounds like you want it to be a good choice,

$60,000.

I don't want to blow out your budget.

Most people I want to blow out their budget.

Some reason you're trying to be nice.

Yeah, I don't know why.

That's going on, yeah.

And so I have decided.

Manual's back on the table,

and you loved that Acura.

I am choosing the new Acura Integra Type S for you.

It is the lift back.

Plenty of space for your Golden Retriever.

Plenty of space for golf clubs.

Both can occur, actually.

At the same time,

if you strap everybody in,

then you can do the small twisty windy roads.

And that car is brilliant to drive.

It's an excellent car for daily use.

It's fun.

It comes to life with a spectacular, fun sleeper.

It's fast.

It's nimble.

The Integra Type S fully loaded, my friend.

They're $52,000, so I came in under budget,

enough money left to pay tax title license

in your first payment of insurance.

Adam Paul's nailed that.

He's done really, really well.

That's actually on my list.

And it's a phenomenal choice.

And I cannot argue it.

I will say that you should at least consider

the Type R Civic as well.

Because it's interesting as an alt.

Which one do you prefer the driving of?

Which one do you prefer the look of?

They're very, very similar otherwise.

And we've heard this many, many times.

You can take the suspension module from one

and replace it to the other.

So if you like how one drive suspension wise,

but you want the looks of the other when you swap it out.

So keep all that in mind.

That is a great one.

I cannot argue that at all.

Like I said, it's on my list.

I have others.

But I'm going to rewind here to the beginning of your email.

And I'm going to say the following sentence back to all of us.

He drove a 2018 Mazda Miata manual.

Loved it, but not a lot of storage space.

You have a golden retriever and a need for golf clubs.

If that Mazda Miata,

if there was a car that drove like that that had more storage,

it would be the car.

Can we all agree that that's the GR86?

That is the GR86.

I present you want it to drive like a Mazda Miata.

Yes.

You want space.

Yes.

You need a dog and golf clubs.

The GR86 is the answer to the question.

You have half your money left over almost.

He's got half the budget.

Right now they're selling the really, really cool Haconia edition again

with the green and the gold wheels.

And I want that car all over again.

It looks great on that new body style.

Anyway, I'm just saying.

Look, load it out.

Like the most you can put on that car they're under 40 grand.

Like I just decided to add stuff I don't even need.

It's still like 36, 37.

So I really think that the answer to the question

you've actually asked here is GR86.

I'm going to give you other options.

But when you called out Mazda Miata but more storage

and told me what you're putting in there,

I was like, and we're done.

A Mazda Miata.

It's a red van.

Practically.

Yeah, anyway.

So there's that.

Also, I want to point out the fact

that if you do the math,

the current GR86,

returning to where we started on the podcast,

it's in the twelves for weight per horsepower.

Oh.

So just letting you know,

the GR86 is done.

We've applied the metric for every,

I have applied it.

Does that mean for every car we choose

from every debate from here on out,

we have to apply,

we have to give a number.

This recipe and here's the number.

So say it with the car.

No, this will not become a bad forecast.

That's all bad.

I want to give you,

recommend and your score.

I want to give you three others

that you really should consider

and drive while you're driving things.

Jaguar F-Type.

Now there's only a two-seat car

but it has a half-way decent hatch

and the golden retriever can sit in the passenger's side.

Maybe you can go to a pitch and putt.

Perfectly half-way.

You don't need all your clubs.

I love that.

That's going to be very good.

So Jaguar F-Type,

997, 911, 60 grand in your pocket,

you can get a nice one.

Yeah.

Now you were worried about maintenance

on a Cayman, maybe that's not a right choice.

But I just, that is the right era of 911

for your budget and for your needs.

The back seats on that era 911

are not really big enough for people

but they're dog-sized.

Yeah.

Golf club passenger seat,

dogs in the back,

that's a perfectly good day.

I'm just saying 997, 911,

that is the early 2000s,

like 05 to 2012,

that era later you can get the newer

wouldn't you get the better.

That is a good day.

I'm telling you, it's a good day.

It's a good day.

And the last one that I have for you

that you really should at least drive

because you set up top that you like hatches.

And I just thought,

shouldn't we drive the GR Corolla?

Good, no transmission hatch

because the problem with the GR Corolla

is those back seats should be bigger too.

But you need a dog.

Dogs in the back.

Hatch with the, with the golf club.

The hatch isn't great

and the back seats aren't great.

In the world of like hatchbacks,

it's not as usable as you'd like it to be

but it's super fun

and with what you're doing,

you're going to have plenty of space.

Well, what about the Maurizio version?

No back seats.

He doesn't have a need for him.

The dog and the clubs go back there.

There's just the big shelf back there.

You have it actually here.

That actually might be bad.

I hadn't thought about that.

This may be the first time ever Adam

that we've, that it's made sense for the Maurizio.

We keep saying it doesn't make sense

but maybe for you, it does

because you have the back door to open.

Yes.

For the flat area for the Golden Retriever.

Correct.

And then you strap down the club

that we have found the buyer for the Maurizio.

I thought it was a track

for ad who liked Toyota's

but it's not.

It's Adam.

I had no idea.

What is the number for the GR Corolla, by the way?

How much of those things weigh?

They weigh, I don't have to look at that.

They weigh 300 horsepower.

About 300 horsepower.

So we could look that up

and give it a number.

I feel like they're in the sweet spot.

All right, Adam, you've got some deciding to do.

Hopefully you'll buy something with the correct number.

If you want us to decide on your number,

write to us every driverTV at gmail.com.

I have a number for you.

I'm over here doing math in real time.

I'm stalling.

Topic Tuesdays.

Car debates.

3200 pounds roughly on the high side.

300 horsepower.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is a 10.6.

A 10.6 car is for you, Adam.

Car conclusions.

Car debates.

Topic Tuesdays.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn.

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Great questions.

I'm going to start here on Instagram with Hensipoo,

writes in and says,

my manager and I were talking about what the next

car to blow up in price will be for collectors.

What's the car or the type of cars that are just going to see a ridiculous spike?

Their guess is early 2000's era,

manual transmission, German V8s.

What do we think?

The proper driver added a comment that RS4s are already in rocket ship mode.

They are turning.

They were slept on for a long time.

The RS4 was this car that was really cool to drive

and nobody was buying them on the prices.

We're just sitting still and now they're on the move.

Hensi, I think that's a great guess,

but I think the metric is a bit of a moving target that answers this.

Last of the breed cars.

And I'm going to use my example Ferrari manuals.

Okay.

When a manufacturer stops doing something that was beloved,

manual transmission, hydraulic steering,

manuals with V8s,

something that they were known for and they've stopped.

There's been a lot of that in the last 25 years of cars.

BMW used to be focused on the ultimate driving machine.

Now they're focused on fast auto-bond sleepers.

As these manufacturers have left the things they were known for,

Lotus Elise is a great example.

There will never be another release.

Those prices are still climbing.

It's all of these last of the breed cars

that if you have one, it will go up in value.

I think, I mean, relatively, please,

do not take financial advice from this podcast,

even though we actually did math today.

And also, don't buy a car as an investment.

That's a terrible idea.

But I really think these,

there will never be another of this

from this manufacturer, especially that didn't make very many.

I'm back to Ferrari manuals.

Those are worth money.

The 599s with manual transmissions,

didn't we determine there were only 12 of them?

There's like 12 in the US.

Richard Grio owns one.

Not be cut by the way.

He doesn't own one because he was an investor.

He owns one because he ordered a 599 when they were on the build sheet.

And he said, of course, I wanted a manual.

Then he found out he had a collector car like by accident.

The car's gone up in value by accident.

It's ridiculous.

So these last cars are key.

Do Hellcat powered anythings qualify?

Because it's last of a breed.

I only think the really special ones

like the demons and weird ones.

Because they're not bringing that whole cat name.

They made a ton of them.

Let's say they bring a V8 back and they go,

oh, just kidding everyone.

The charger is back and we decided to put a V8

because that's what people want to buy.

Yeah, guess what?

It fits in this huge body.

The one's surprised.

Yeah.

I feel like the Hellcat era is past us

even though high powered V8s are not

especially that M5 touring and others.

It's still a twin turbo V8 with hybrid tech

to get even more power out of it.

Of course, the weight goes up and we're outside of the sweet spot.

I think that M5 is outside the sweet spot.

The problem?

It's like 5600 pounds.

The problem with the Hellcats is they made so many

that you're going to have to have a special edition version

like the demon before it actually goes up.

Some guy you know, some guy bought a demon

with the chest that it came with

and the special drag tires and all the stuff.

Some guy bought a demon with all that stuff

and it's in the corner of his garage wrapped in bubble wrap

because he's going to pull it out at Barrett Jackson

in 20 years and it's going to have,

it's never going to run because it's still got plastic

on the seats and the engine's never been run

and it's going to have like delivery miles

and he's going to get a ridiculous amount of money for it

and it's a lawn ornament.

It's happening.

I just did the math for the M5 touring.

We're assuming 5600 pounds

with a 717 twin turbo V8.

Still right.

It's part of V8.

That is a 7.8 number.

I'm telling you,

you get below 10.

Those cars are fast.

That's exciting.

Paul's, by the way,

in the history of Paul,

I'm never bit excited about math until right now.

You were discovering this with Paul in real time.

Math is cool.

That's never ever happened.

Almost as cool as art.

All right, cable S9 says,

in the essence of GR,

everything should we want a GR to coma.

It seems like prime time

to bring back an X runner successor,

manual tunable turbo four,

lowered body kit,

all that,

the all important iconic blue

that the original X runner came in.

Cable S9, Kyle says,

don't sign me up,

but I just wanted to exist.

Shouldn't it exist?

You can't, it's not for me.

It's not for me.

I just really hope they make that.

You can't.

Yes, for that.

If we enthusiast just say,

well, yeah, I totally want manual transmissions to exist.

I don't want one.

I'm not going to buy it.

I totally want it.

Please make this for the no people that will buy it.

Yes.

Only, well, many trucking can't come back,

but maybe sport compact truck.

If we revitalize that magazine,

along with this,

then you can have it,

because the to come is big.

So until somebody comes out with the tiny little truck thing,

and we can bring back the lowered trucks,

although I just, I still never saw the point.

Well, but I knew it was a thing.

What are they calling it?

The one that they're doing for the Maverick,

they're doing a Maverick version of this.

If that's a sale success,

then others are going to start doing it.

That's what it's going to take.

It's going to take forward with this Maverick variation

that is the sport truck version.

If that is a success,

then look to every other manufacturer

of trucks that size to do one.

That's what's going to happen.

The Maverick Lobo.

Averick Lobo.

If they sell that,

and it actually is successful,

I expect other people to follow.

John Carter has a fun question.

What is the least compromised fun car on sale today?

What he means by that is,

the car is fun at all costs.

Its purpose is fun.

You've already G.T.

It's got the right number.

See now, see now I can't get Paul away from math.

This is amazing.

The other thing is that one.

I'm going to give you two, potentially three,

but two for sure.

B.A.C. Mono.

That has no purpose but to be fun.

I would like one of those.

I would too.

The problem, I mean,

that's so focused you can't bring friends.

Okay, that's how focused it is.

All right?

It's just so fun.

It's just you and car driving for fun.

That's the entire purpose.

The other one I thought of in this area is the catering,

which really doesn't have a purpose in the modern time.

That is not a car that is necessary or is filling any need

other than I would like to drive this for fun.

It's one of the rare cars where we started with horsepower

at the top of the podcast.

Read reviewers that happen to have driven

the most powerful catering they make right now

and the least powerful one they make right now back to back.

There are many reviewers especially in Europe that have done this

and what's hysterical to me is almost to a person

they'd like the lighter one more.

The one with less power, they almost always like it more,

which is craziness.

But that is a car that is uncompromising at its fun.

The closest one you could use as a daily is the MX-5.

Yeah, it's just usable enough,

but fun at all costs.

B.A.C. Mono and Caleb.

Richard Damiano and his son were discussing

beautiful mid-engine sports cars

and came up with very few modern,

beautiful mid-engine sports cars.

So he asks, what are the most beautiful,

enthusiast cars since 2020 and what differentiates

beautiful versus elegant, exotic, or state?

It's all in the proportion, Richard.

I really love your question.

Yes, the Lotus Amira is probably the most

beautiful car on sale currently.

It's mid-engine, but I think the surfaces and the proportions

were really well done.

They're very sensitive to the amount of surface

break-up versus the size of the car.

There can be more or less of either a bigger car

and not as much surface break-up.

Well, we're talking large rolls of rice

as we're talking big Lexus sedans.

And you can always tell the styling elements

of very flat roof, a long,

flat-ish roof indicates more elegant

kind of feel to it.

It extends the wheelbase,

the long roof line.

That's the thinking behind the

Columnon.

The Rose Rose Columnon.

Almost called it a Columnon.

Rose Royce Water.

The Water Filter.

The Rose Royce Mulligan.

Do it over, please.

Yeah, anyway, thank you.

That thinking is, okay, SUV,

but it's got a real long roof line.

It's trying to be very elegant,

very long hood.

That's exactly what Jaguar with their

concept.

Oh, there you go.

Your concept, double zero.

Yeah, that's all gone to zeros.

They're trying to be

long hood, elegant, long, beautiful,

long proportions.

It indicates speed.

It indicates big door openings.

Big style.

You know, that kind of thing.

But then when you're talking about exotic,

Sedate is pretty,

I hopefully self-explanatory.

It's small proportions

with small styling elements.

Okay, it doesn't stand out necessarily,

but you don't want to invest a lot

into tooling that makes it so overly busy

or complicated that you've kind of wasted

your development dollars.

That's not the point.

You want to keep the cost of the car down

to sell it for profit,

a large amount of profit.

That's why

RAV4s and RAV4s as a part

is the word for all those kinds of cars.

That's just the generic car.

There it is.

It's like Kleenex for all the tissue out there.

You're right.

Just like a terminal.

You're right.

Jet ski for all the personal water credit.

I need another one of these.

Could you Z-Roxet for me?

Done.

Exactly.

You know what I mean.

But for the most beautiful,

enthusiast cars,

the beauty comes in the roof line.

That's what you see.

It's like a motorcycle I've told you

that when you look at the seat,

you'll like the bike or not.

The seat looks comfortable.

You think, oh, that looks like a great bike.

Look at the place where you interact.

But the Aston Martin Vantage,

the 2025 Vantage is so beautiful to my eye,

the proportions, classic.

The roof line, long sweeping and beautiful.

They really brought that one around

because when they introduced the current Vantage,

I didn't like it.

I loved the last one.

The proportions were there,

but the styling was not.

The proportions have remained.

And the styling elements

have now grown to match the size,

which is where the Amira is the sweet spot.

So I feel like the new Vantage

is now in the Amira category of being very beautiful.

I'm wrestling with the F80 Ferrari

because it's very solid,

block-like.

Bringing back that 80s kind of look,

a monolith kind of shape.

I need to see one in person

as compared to cars with a lot of surface breakup.

And the more you see surface breakup,

that indicates arrow or racing

or hardcore driving or something like that.

You see it on GT3,

Porsche's, a lot of error,

a lot of different intakes and surface breakup,

and that just indicates less elegance,

less sedate, certainly exotic.

But then it's very purposeful

because every surface breakup

either needs to do something or not exist,

or it's simply for the sake of beauty,

which is quite valid, too.

I think there is another one actually on the roster,

and that is the Pagani Wira.

I think that is a genuine beautiful car.

Yes, it is.

And it's one of those cars also,

and look, I am not the style person

and Paul knows much more about it than I do,

but I feel like when a car is genuinely beautiful,

any color works.

And that doesn't work for all cars.

I'll give you one that we've mentioned many times

before that is not mid-engine,

and that is the Miata RF.

I've heard the arguments for why the soft top is better,

and I think it's a driving machine

and just a convertible machine.

Yes, I see soft top,

but as far as beauty is concerned,

the Miata RF is stunning.

Yeah, agreed, agreed.

Jared Rose 1 says,

what was the best year for car reviews on YouTube?

Quit, oh.

Sorry, I briefly showed Paul a picture of a Wira.

That isn't even the tempest package.

And it's still just,

I think it's best at its original form.

Yeah, that is pretty.

Anyway.

Sorry. Okay, back to Jared Rose 1's question.

What year was the best year for car reviews on YouTube?

Clearly the format has changed.

Vloggers and shorts seem to rule,

but now back in the day, there was quality content.

You like to think that we're still adhering to that?

Yeah, we've noticed over the years,

and it's been one of those decisions where

we've tried various things.

The car content out there is so varied.

And it seems like even the short stuff,

it's like, what are you getting out of this video?

Huge viewership.

The way my son consumes shorts,

I know there is a growing audience

for unbelievable short form content.

I mean, were you informed?

Were you educated?

Were you, is this information or knowledge?

In what category is it?

It's just a laugh.

That, honestly,

the most successful shorts are just a laugh.

I don't even think it's more hot.

At the same time, it's even info.

It's just make me snicker and move on.

The number of times I hear my son just do that.

It's like laugh, 30 seconds later.

Laugh, 30 seconds later.

I mean, that's the consumption.

And I don't, look, I'm also a long form storyteller guy.

I like novels, I like movies.

I like sitting down for a while.

It's funny, both my wife and son,

if we're gonna sit down as a family like,

we're gonna have dinner, we're gonna watch a little TV show.

They want something 30 minutes.

Maybe, maybe an old TV show that's 45.

I wanna sit down and watch a movie.

I'd like to be here and engage in a story for a while.

I was teasing my wife the other day

because here's where it gets really funny.

She doesn't wanna sit down and watch a movie.

But if we watch a TV show,

we can go through four or six episodes at a time.

I'm like, you realize we just sat here for six hours

and that you were okay with.

But my movie at 90 minutes was too long.

We've had this fight over selling.

But we've had this fight many, many times.

She's like, stop bringing up the logic.

But anyway, I can answer this question a little bit, John.

I can actually, I can answer this question a little bit,

Jared, I can actually break down and quantify it

because I do watch the numbers.

We do pay attention.

But I also wanna acknowledge a couple of things.

First off, last year, everyone we know in automotive

that does content of any kind had a down year last year.

Now we compounded it by buying a different company

and do a less content.

So we had, I'll be perfectly candid with you.

We had a 30% reduction in viewership

and income from YouTube last year alone.

30% and it's not, I will tell you, that flat out hurts.

But okay, we also though aren't alone

because everyone I know in the space

had less viewership and less income last year,

which is funny considering it's kind of hard

to watch a YouTube video now with South Sea multiple ads.

When I watch a YouTube video that says fewer ads

on this long video, I'm going, where was the fewer ads?

But then I'll give you the flip side.

Sorry, I'm just educating you guys because this is stuff we learn.

If you reduce the number of ads, meaning potential ad breaks

on your YouTube video,

YouTube stands to make less money off of that.

So YouTube will promote it less.

We've actually seen it on our own content.

The stuff that we have been very restrictive,

how many ads they'll let play,

doesn't do as well as the same kind of video

where we just let YouTube decide how many ads.

So YouTube is out, let's be honest,

they're not, they're not a charity.

They're out there to make money, okay?

So they, and we get actually a pretty high CPM,

cost per thousand views, we get actually very high,

which I'm thankful for because we have quality.

And that's one of the things I am thankful for across the board.

We decided our format early on.

And we have never been, in spite of the trends,

we have never been quite right for YouTube.

We, we decided to have our two host format intercut.

We were the first people ever to do two hosts,

but we do it our own way.

We've always worried about quality.

I want it to be cinematic and feel like a TV show,

even though I know you're watching YouTube,

this is not the way to be most successful on YouTube.

It is crank out the content as fast as possible.

Even that didn't work as well.

For folks that we noted that in 2024,

that still wasn't as successful,

that I'll give you the actual numbers.

2016 to 2021 were pretty consistent every year

within a few of each other.

Similar income, similar amount of total views.

2022 was our best year ever,

and that was because our 8,000 car comparison piece

blew out the numbers that year.

$8,000, not 8,000 cars.

Thank you.

It'd be tough to fill them 8,000 cars in.

Our 8,000 car.

That's a lot of cars.

Most car comparison, all the back of our cheap sports cars.

Thank you.

That piece blew out the numbers.

And it's still playing very, very well.

We love that piece.

We want to redo it.

So that's going on.

So that one blew out the numbers for 2022,

but we've been on the slide since 30% less this year.

All of that to say,

we have zero intentions of changing the fact

that we want to do is stuff we're proud of

that has quality behind it.

And we believe there's an audience for it

and thank you guys for being in it.

Pass on a video that you liked, please.

Agreed.

Jared, this is a bigger question than I think you thought

because I'm going to bring up the first round,

the first iteration of Chris Harris videos.

I think we're among the best.

I think enthusiast gravitated towards those.

The cinematography was top notch, superb.

Prior to him going to top gear.

Yeah, me okay.

Of course, influence,

but I think they're early Chris Harris videos

were among the best.

I think that was an era certainly of everybody

kind of looking to him and that production quality

and the things that he would say.

And there's more than 10 years ago, by the way.

The way driving.

I was going to, I was thinking about 10 years

because it's 10 or more.

20, it's 20, his stuff was roughly 2011 to 2013.

That's the stuff that we can all think of

because the derived channel was 2012,

when you did their content push, yeah.

That was a sweet spot for me.

But the other problem is manufacturers.

Now, we have our manufacturers to think

because we get in all of the latest models and we want to.

But I think there needs to be a rethinking

of car manufacturers owning the internet for a day

because they invited all the journalists

because I feel like fewer journalists

are attending car launch events.

Maybe.

Because that doesn't guarantee them a huge blowout

number for video that the car manufacturer is expecting.

And again, to tie into owning the internet for a day.

And they do.

And they figured out how to use all of the YouTubers

for maximum advertising and megaphone effect.

And it works.

It works to, but I'm seeing a backing off of that.

Well, but the thing, the flip side though

is the thing, the reason I think it's also not working,

this is, I love that you brought this up.

The reason I think it's not working

is because they own the internet for the day.

This day is all about the new Toyota X, whatever it is.

Whatever it is.

The new Hyundai sports car, the new Hyundai SUV.

By the way, Chevy just released a truck

and all you're seeing in your few days

is the new Chevy truck that works.

But the problem is it's almost always happening

when the vehicle isn't yet for sale.

Right?

And I think that is a huge problem.

And I'm not sure how we close the gap there.

But we've seen this over, especially

with low volume performance cars.

By the time they actually come out,

somebody else owned the internet Tuesday

when this car came out for a car

that they won't have for a year.

And so everybody forgot about Nissan Z.

Everybody forgot about a car.

Because we were excited about it a year and a half ago

when all the press launches happened.

And now that it's out, nobody cares.

I feel like now that you've said it,

the press launches need to coincide

with the general public's ability to go to a dealer

and see the car that they just saw

the video of that day.

It's like point of purchase.

It's like buying gum at the checkout.

Agreed.

It needs to be if I saw the video,

I need to be able to go see that car in person.

Oh my gosh, I just watched the video

and they're in dealerships

and that dealership has at least one for viewing

so you can drive by and look at it

or you can just stop and take a look.

It needs to involve general public

not just the press launches,

which means a big delay in press launches

until those cars go into production

because of what we saw with production issues

over COVID.

You're right.

Production was so dramatically affected.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, the press launches continued.

But when can I actually go buy one

and have a buying conversation,

that was strung out

and I still don't think we've recovered.

I agree with you.

And I hate to call a car an impulse buy,

but it is that reality.

I just saw it got excited about it this morning.

My dealer has one.

Impulse is too strong, but the connection.

Yes.

Of people's love for brands

and connecting to a car,

you see it.

You want to be able to go experience it yourself.

And car shows no longer do that

because car shows continue.

Well, here's this concept or here's this car

and all the production ones.

Well, that was just the refresh from two years ago.

Like I don't care about that.

Where's the new stuff that is actually available?

I think the gap between press launches

and car availability needs to shorten dramatically.

I like that.

I have one other thought.

I've taken us all kinds of places.

Jared, I didn't expect.

I had one other thought and that is

we are incredibly thankful for the fact

that we get press cars.

Absolutely, yes.

We have right now in a big gap

of a couple of months we haven't had any.

And that's one of the reasons

the test drive channel isn't doing weekly right now

because we don't have cars.

But there's a bunch of them coming at us

and we're very excited about that.

And they send us everything.

And we're thankful for that too

because it allows us to talk about

any and every kind of car on this podcast.

However, I feel like a lot of the super excitement

about cars was five to 10 years back.

Aligned with what you're talking about with drive channel.

Now, there are still some great sports cars being made

but starting in the late teens

it was the rise of EVs

and everything's gonna be autonomous.

Yes.

And all of your emails to us were,

I better buy my last gasoline car

and I better buy my last car that's not autonomous.

Well, guess what?

The market didn't want that.

In mass, not just you guys that like cars,

in mass people said, well, I don't want one of those.

And so as a result, everybody's backed off of autonomy

and almost every car we started the podcast with

and almost every car company is backing off

of only selling EVs because the market doesn't support

but because cars are ahead of,

they have to be market planning ahead of

when they're actually selling them.

We've gone through a four or five year doldrum here

where a lot of stuff has just been sameness

and let me show you a new EV.

And I think a lot of people that were not hardcore car people

because many of you listening are hardcore car people.

I would call fringe car people.

Tuned out.

I just industry in general.

I don't care.

There's nothing.

We had emails at the beginning of this year

where many of you said, is there anything?

Listen to this, is there anything coming in 2025

I should care about?

That's true, yeah.

Which is crazy.

10 years ago, it was just like,

tell me the new stuff coming?

Well, people are thinking,

well, I've got the car that I have.

I've, you know, suits my needs or we can get by.

I think I'll just keep driving it

and hang on to that and not incur new costs

because of the prices of new cars.

Sure, yeah, yeah.

EV is leading the charge on that one.

Nice to go.

Still, cars are expensive.

And to justify that new car purchase,

it not only needs to be available.

It needs to be the right car,

for the right market, at the right time.

Now, that's tough to do.

That's that kind of product plan because of the lead time

for R&D iteration, getting it built all those things.

But it just seems like the general public was left out

of all the fun of the car industry.

And you're right, I think they tuned out.

Cars were like, oh my gosh, this cool concept coming.

I don't really know when it's gonna be available.

Just call your dealer and check and,

well, since they don't have anything to sell you,

they're gonna try to sell you something else

that you don't want.

Interesting.

Jared, who knew it was gonna take as that many places,

but thanks for the question.

Whole extra.

We've got to pay into today.

We have stuff to say.

Look at that.

Really appreciate your questions.

Really appreciate your social media questions.

Check out hookdowndriving.com for all the events near you

and just another reminder,

Everyday Driver pilgrimage for 2025.

It's gonna be fun.

Go to Europe and have a lot of fun.

It's gonna be great.

I'm excited to go back this year.

That is really, really fun.

Looking forward to next time as always, cheers everyone.

Thanks for watching.

I'll see you next time.

Bye.

966: Twelve Is The Magic Number, Guilt-Free Spending, The Rolls-Royce Mulligan

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