991: Worldwide Plague Of Enthusiasts, Losing The Perfect Car, Names Are Way Too Long

Love them or hate them. Everyone has an opinion on cars. But we believe we're all one great car away from a car enthusiast. So we're here to help you find a car you love. And let it take us to everything else in life. I'm Todd. I'm Paul. And this is the everyday driver car debate. We're coming in hot. Everybody happy Friday. We're actually headed to our ring and spa trip. You will be hearing from us there. You will also be hearing from the people that are attending with us. This is one of the highlights of our year every year, our pilgrimage trip.

We haven't heard it's far from all we're doing. We have other big events. And here's the thing. I'm not even going to list the hooked on driving calendar because it is vast. I am just going to go straight to Circuit of the America's May 31st and June 1st, which is also our 1000th podcast. The Park City Drive Days, which is actually launching now publicly. You can go register for the Park City Drive Days. That's very cool as well. And we have our bear tooth trip. The registration is not open yet, but it's coming. That's happening in September. That's just the everyday driver trips on top of the hooked on driving trips.

By the way, podcasts are continuing. After 1000, we're going to go to video. There's a lot of stuff going on. You and I have been like charging forward, my friend. There's been a lot. And still more, we just released the Stuttgart icons playing on our original YouTube channel. If you haven't seen that, please go watch because we think it's very much of note. Now, these two cars are 200 plus thousand dollars. They are not everyday driver money. They're crazy expensive.

But when we realized the two icons from the same town, the companies across town and to the North and the South East, they're building their icons as hybrids now, but they're not going after the same kind of goals. So it is the Porsche 911 Carrera for GTS T hybrid, the 2025 Mercedes AMG GTS E performance. Also hybrid. If there's just so much. And then you get into it.

992.2 911 Carrera. Yeah, exactly right. So please check that out. We would love it if you watched it. We would love your feedback. Love to hear what you think of these amazing cars. And they're not even the hyper cars, the crazy stuff.

True. This is the stuff that isn't in the hyper car category, even though that is, I mean, quarter-million dollar prices is insane. But it is interesting to see what kind of the furthest out moonshot thinking that the general public can buy.

Concept cars are a different thing. These are cars. They're going to mass produce. And in both cases, they feel like moonshot cars, but they're just, you can go by one. The problem is dealers are going to mark these up. And then they're going to be even less worth the money. But anyway, they're crazy expensive. But we're covering them because there is real news there. And it was fascinating to drive them and kind of educate ourselves on what they do, what they don't, and watch them astonish us.

You know, a thousand pound feet of torque from the Mercedes, a thousand, a thousand, a thousand, a thousand. Here's the thing. 10 years ago. Unless you were talking about the funny car dragsters, nothing had horsepower.

Nothing the general public could buy had horsepower or torque with a comma in it. What I'm intrigued by is the lesser versions of the Mercedes that only have 600. How is only 600 as said?

Yeah, only 600 horsepower. Oh, you're not even trying hard anymore. I'm going to put the proclaimer song in your head. Yes, you are. I would have 1,000 pound feet of torque. I don't know.

We're going to have one. No, no, let's stop. Let's use in a thousand great song. We always reference that song for reasons we don't even understand. But now we're all singing it is one of those

re-tunerating things that you're going to have to listen to it to get out of your brain. And I'm sorry. And you're welcome. Even more news about Nissan. We've been talking about Nissan a lot in 2025. Yeah.

About their successes and things that need improvement. And what needs improvement now is against an estimated loss of 561 million. They actually lost 5 billion net.

So I had a fiscal year ending March 2025. The guesstimate was 560 million and they lost 5 billion. I am not good with math. Yes.

But those numbers are even close to the same. No, they're not. If I'm not mistaken, that's 10 times worse than they thought.

It's a lot. They have some work to do. And I think that everyone in the industry. No, no, that's wrong. Everybody worldwide. If Nissan came out with some compelling new products, we would embrace them wholeheartedly, drive them for what they are, evaluate them for where they're at.

And hopefully Nissan would start selling cars and trucks again, but it seems like they're not well, but they've been going through some internal trauma.

Difficult discussions. Yeah, there's been a board meeting or two. Yeah, that is that is brutal. This is more than a money morning meeting.

We're going to have a meeting every day this week. There's going to be meetings. It's just the meeting hasn't ended. It's just one solid money morning.

And it ends. It's right. We've got meetings. Yes. That's just one giant meeting. So Nissan, we want you to do great things. We're very excited about the new VP of design, the new CEO. Yeah, we're.

Yeah, sorry, the new CEO and they've got a lot of potential. How about that?

True. Well, here's a thing. They've been in the news of late because they are having people come on board that or or being elevated that are excited about the kind of cars that made Nissan an icon.

And selling altimos at deep discounts is clearly not working. That's not the way. It's not.

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Mira and Mark right to us from Switzerland proving the disease is worldwide.

Yes, I love it every car enthusiast I you know once you discover.

You just can't help but continue to shop.

It's great.

Not only that I love this email, but it went places I never would have guessed if you told me and obviously this is our reddit.

Hey, we've got some people that couple that wrote in from Switzerland and we're going to do a car debate where we end up.

I would have never said people from Switzerland are going to wind up here, but I see their logic.

That's what I love about it to when you guys send us your stories every day driver TV at Gmail's how to send in your car debates or you can do them through the website.

The contact form goes the exact same email address every day driver TV at Gmail Paul and I both read them.

It is amazing to watch you guys break down your logic for your own car purchases and it's not like Paul and I always get it right and your car conclusions are great for the same reason.

If you're listening to this show, you're not buying a car blindly.

You're not just walking on to the car, the car lot and going, I'll take the gray one.

There's thought and I love unpacking these thoughts. It's so much fun.

It is.

Mira, Mark, thank you for listening.

Thank you for writing.

They've been listening a while now and they are personally blaming us for their growing love of cars and driving.

Love it.

I can count my disagree.

But as Mark's passion for cars has grown, Mira's interest has been spark two.

She's been joining in for some episodes. Hello, Mira.

Thank you for listening.

Their current car situation includes Mark's family who owned a Volkswagen Golf sports van, which is the car that Mark learned to drive in.

He describes the driving feel as comfortable, practical, but overall pretty boring, right?

That seems like the description right there.

Is that the description of the car or the company?

Moving on.

Mark drives a lot of different cars for work, mostly larger vans, but nothing worth mentioning.

And both of them have been toying with the idea of replacing the Golf with a bigger all-rounder.

Seven seats for road trips with their friends.

Something for camping, dailying, ideally a hybrid or maybe even electric.

They started looking through the Volkswagen lineup, but quickly moved on due to the repetitive design and how common they are in Switzerland.

So they all look the same when we're seeing too many of them.

We need to move on.

I love it.

Okay, good.

They also considered the GLB, the Explorer, and eventually just came across the Kia EV9.

Which is interesting because when you first gave us your listing,

seven seats for road trips, hybrid or even electric.

Something for camping, daily driving.

I thought of the Kia EV9, and the fact that you guys have already looked at it, I thought was intriguing.

Onward.

Are you sure you weren't on the mood board for Kia when they created the customer profile?

Maybe they had a picture, unknowingly, of Mark and Mira in Switzerland, with the mountains behind them.

And the EV9 folks were like, we have to make a car for them.

This is what they need.

Yes.

But although they thought they found the perfect car, beautiful design, good range, seven seats, and big enough for camping,

they even test drove it.

It checked all the boxes, but it wasn't fun to drive.

I agree, but I have to defend the EV9 and other cars of that ilk real quickly and say the following.

Once you get into seven seats, there's not a lot of fun.

Okay?

Seven seats is about transport of lots of people.

There's very few things you can do in the seven-seater world where, oh, that was fun to drive.

Because it's just becoming too much of a dynamic problem as a big box to even be able to make it fun.

Now, you can squeeze some fun out of it, it happens to be manual transmission.

That makes it at least more engaging.

But like you and I, when we go to Europe, we rent these nine passenger vans.

They're only fun because we drive them as they weren't intended.

There's nothing fun about them fundamentally.

The most fun is checking the tire rating for the city rating.

And then realizing that we just exceeded that on the Audubon.

That's fun.

We don't recommend that, by the way.

But I have been in one of those bands on the Audubon in the Fastlane passing some people in the Fastlane.

And then I got over and the guy that then passed me in the Fastlane looked at me like I had gone to space at a fero.

Seriously, it was that kind of facial expression like, what are you doing?

Do you know any movie that created a space out of a fero?

Which is why I thought of it, yeah.

All right, after some reflection, Mark and Mira thought maybe it's not time for a big SUV just yet.

Good call.

They started looking in the opposite direction, a second fun car to compliment the Volkswagen.

They quickly found a 2016 ND Miata.

Nobody listening a surprise, 6,000 miles for 20 grand.

Pretty affordable for a Swiss Miata market.

They test drove it the next day, bought it the day after.

They love it for weekend drives, holidays in France, and longer road trips.

But for now, they're loving this combo.

Until last month, when they went on holiday to Lanzarote.

In the Canary Islands, I actually kind of want to vacation there myself.

We're all looking at it now.

I cannot believe they were actually able to rent a 2024 Jeep Wrangler Sahara.

Really?

I didn't expect, look, I know lots of places in the US you go and you rent and I mean Hawaii has a ton of them.

Hawaii, yeah.

Florida, most places with beach in the US will rent you a Jeep.

But you're in the Canary Islands and they happen to be renting jeeps.

Okay, cool.

Pretty awesome.

They instantly fell in love with it even though it's big.

It was fun to drive, not Miata fun.

You identified long ago, it's either Miata or Jeep Wrangler.

They're so related.

I didn't create this world, but apparently that's what the actual mood board reveals.

These are the cross shoppers right there.

Yeah.

It's practicality.

Mark writes is unmatched.

They went off-roading.

Love the freedom of being able to go almost anywhere they wanted without dealing with tourist crowds.

I'm wondering if they had not just tied to Jeep.

It's just true.

Going where there's no tourist crowds.

But I'm also wondering if they were in traffic at one point where like, well, there's a dirt road.

I wonder if it's one of those ones where like, we could just go around.

Wonder what's at the end of that road.

Now renting one they said is long-term is expensive and many rental companies won't cover damages from off-roading.

That's true pretty much everywhere.

So they're asking us for guidance.

Do we see a Jeep replacing their Volkswagen Golf as a daily?

They've looked into the hybrid version and the electric range should cover their daily commutes and city trips.

They've also seen news about a new Wrangler arriving at the end of the year.

But if they sell the Golf, their budget would be around $60,000.

That would probably mean looking at a used Jeep since a new Sahara 4xE starts at 99,000 in Switzerland.

Are you talking Euro or is that Swiss sucks?

I'm assuming they mean yeah.

Either way, it's not US.

Fairly similar but it's not dollars.

So what are our thoughts?

Do we have alternatives or even wild cards for them?

I do, I do, I do.

Should I start with a wild card and back my way to reality?

Well but I just have to start with the image.

The image here of a no doors, no top Wrangler parked at some turnout with Swiss mountains in the background.

And I have to ask the question, is that allowed?

Because the one, here's the one thing.

Look, I have not been to Switzerland as on my personal shortlist.

I would love to go.

I have friends that live there.

I would love to go to Switzerland.

However, I have consistently heard amazing roads with draconian traffic laws.

Do not speed and that while Switzerland is beautiful and you can drive there,

they're not car friendly is what I have heard.

Now maybe I'm wrong but this is my understanding is that cars are allowed.

But if cars went away tomorrow, generally the country of Switzerland would be fine with that.

So now you're bringing an American quasi electric Jeep Wrangler to Switzerland

and I'm really going, how odd ball is that?

Because I'm thinking very, even though I must admit, your description here Mira and Mark,

I didn't really think you were going to describe your way to being kind of the perfect four by E Wrangler buyer

but I see the logic and I kind of love for you to have one, though I have other ideas as well.

Drop me off in Geneva.

I just want to go to all the museums and watch shops.

I know, yeah everywhere.

I'll go somewhere and get chocolate.

It'll be fine.

We'll meet somewhere.

If someone will meet at the ring, we'll go back up to.

Anywhere that has a working chocolate watch is the place where we're ready to do each other again.

Let's be honest, yeah.

What are you doing here?

Well, I should ask you the same question.

Okay, I'm going to start not with the wild card because I want to work my way there

with BMW X3s X1s, maybe X4.

You've probably thought of those, Mark and Mira, how about a mini-contrament talking about X1s if I'm going to bring up the X1.

Sure.

And you might be able to, if you do a used countryman, you could get one well below your budget and probably with a manual.

Yes, I was finding them.

I actually went to search and found a few sites there.

Even the JCW countryman could be intriguing.

I like that.

I'm a fan of the latest countryman styling.

Oh, I think so.

I think you should go used, go back even a generation slightly and you're better off for it.

I don't know what happened at many because I have always liked their cars.

All of their designs since they released that one in 03 and of course I had an 05 since they released.

I've always liked them even though they've gotten bigger.

I thought the styling was great.

Right up until now.

The new version of every single one of them is ugly.

Yeah, it's not good.

It's different for the sake of being different.

It's improved on the last.

The entire lineup fell off a cliff and got ugly.

I mean, I look at this as a Miata like SUV.

Yes.

All the SUVs.

Yes.

You're the most Miata like.

It's very countryman.

Now, when you said seven passenger, I don't know if I can allow myself to go that large

because your email, Mark and Merit, kind of took a turn where you're re-evaluating yourselves.

But if you look at the Toyota Prado, which is sold in Europe in Switzerland as the Land Cruiser style,

look at the Land Cruiser style.

Now, this is out of your budget because new ones start at 86,900 Swiss francs.

And it's got the cool 2.8 liter diesel.

I think you could really embrace that and like that because that's the Toyota doing kind of the Jeep thing

as much as we can get out of Toyota doing the Jeep thing right now.

I also, not sure if it's worth mentioning the Mazda CX30 just as a runabout,

but then it kind of runs into your golf as just kind of getting the same car.

Yeah.

It's not going to off-road in that, really, yeah.

I will embrace your decision for a used Jeep.

If you love it that much and you want it, yes, is the answer.

Go get one.

I absolutely plot it.

Except for one car that I think you need to think about.

Okay.

It is the Suzuki Jimny.

Oh, funny.

Yeah.

The fourth generation.

Yeah, yeah.

The fourth generation.

2018 and newer.

Okay.

It's a mini SUV.

It's the Miata.

It's a Jeep.

It's even more mini SUV like that.

Then the Contramen and technically a K-Car.

A 2020.

You're so right.

Get this in Luzern.

It's about 35,000 euro.

I found them.

I went searching.

Which means that's about half of your budget and you can save the other half

as you consider a larger SUV for the future.

Or maybe you get another Miata for the same price and you have two, you know,

his and hers and you go dueling on some Swiss mountain roads.

I like it.

Probably don't want to do that.

Yeah.

Germany.

Probably, yeah.

Yeah.

To Germany for some high-speed driving.

But maybe you could just enjoy it.

I mean, the Miata's at slow speed.

There's so much fun.

So get his and hers and then you've got a Jimny.

It's so much more city friendly, I would say.

Yes.

But it strikes me as like the mini Jeep.

Small road friendly but at the same time you could bang it down.

Any road you'd take a big Jeep.

I love that.

I hadn't thought of it.

I think that's wonderful.

The Jimny.

Yes.

Like any of the old Jimneys.

I don't like the styling.

Not a big fan.

But the new, I guess new 2018, a newer.

It's like a Wrangler done by Suzuki.

It's almost like a half-sized Wrangler and they weigh less than 3,000 pounds.

They're tiny.

I think it's sort of the ultimate Miata SUV.

And we don't get them here.

And people have taken them and made them into serious off-roaders.

But even the stock versions.

People are like, what are you doing with that back here?

And the Jimny just goes places.

I love that.

That's really good.

Mark and Mara, this thinking stemmed from whenever we talked about off-roaders.

When I was in high school.

Everybody's going, oh yeah, you got to get the big pickup truck, the biggest thing, Jeep, whatever.

And then somebody would inevitably pipe up about the Suzuki Samurai.

Yeah, true.

Yeah.

And everybody who's ever had one is like, that's the best off-roader.

And I showed those off-roaders what's what?

I showed them a thing or two and they laughed me off the planet.

And then I outdid them or I was on an even more extreme.

45 degree angle than they could do.

Or I crawled over stuff that their giant trucks couldn't accomplish.

And so I thought, all right, Suzuki's got a modern version of that.

It's the Jimny.

Go look at those.

Wow.

Otherwise you've got some other great choices here.

Wishing you happy hunting.

But if none of that works, you still got a great option in the Jeep.

I am surprised, honestly, that they did talk their way into making the Jeep make sense for them.

I do see the logic.

I can't shy you away from it if it really is the right thing.

I want to give you a couple other options.

Paul hasn't mentioned though.

I don't think that I can beat the Jimny.

I think you've really lannered something in.

And in nearly a thousand podcasts, I think it's the only time the Jimny's ever come up.

So I want to applaud you there too.

I always love the new stuff.

That's really good.

I think you need to, because you're talking about electric would work.

And then the four by e, you're talking about plug-in hybrids.

Which is what that was designed to do.

Go exactly.

Exactly.

And then exactly back to your house.

So I think you need to look at the plug-in hybrid versions of the BMW X5 and the Cayenne.

Yeah.

Because you're looking for good five seat space and something that's dynamically good to drive.

Both the X5, plug-in hybrid and the Cayenne, of course, are both capable of that.

You'll be able to find them probably for surprisingly good deals because they don't really have good second buyers.

People are worried about the batteries dying.

Again, I'm the actual case study of this right now because our battery's been great.

But people avoid them because not everybody wants to take the risk.

So I think you need to look at those for sure.

I think you really might find the right blending of larger off-road capable if you want it.

It's not a Jeep.

Off-road capable if you want it.

But also just a really good commute vehicle in one of those.

I am finding mixed information.

But I'm going to pretend that the only information I'm finding is that yes you can.

Okay.

The brand new forerunner.

I can't figure out for sure if it's for sale in Europe or not.

I look at those.

I'd rather they get the forerunner.

Yes.

I'm not sure they.

I'm not sure it's coming to Europe.

I'm almost certain it's not coming to the UK because they're not doing right hand drive.

But I get information that suggests the 2025 forerunner is coming to Germany.

And if it is, you can get that with off-road capable running gear.

But also it'll run two-wheel drive when you don't need it.

We have a piece coming up about the new forerunner actually in a little bit.

And one of the things that Paul and I really liked about it is the fact that the new Land Cruiser,

the Prado that we get over here or the GX550 Lexus, that's all we'll drive all the time.

One of the great things about the Jeep that you don't realize until you drive a Jeep versus other off-roaders

is when you don't have it in for low and it's running as a rear-wheel drive vehicle,

that's one of the things that makes them more fun.

It does.

It's a subconscious thing.

And when you know it, you go, oh, that's what it is.

But before that, you don't realize why?

Why did the all-wheel drive thing just not feel that interesting?

Because rear-wheel drive has a magic to it.

It just does in any, in any platform.

It's not like it's hard power on out of the corner.

Oh, that's well.

Yeah, you're not oversteering.

But there's not the point.

There's something subtle there that is also true in pickups when they're not running 4x4.

It's the same kind of thing.

Pickups have a natural chuck ability to them when they're not running 4x4.

Yeah.

Because of the same reason.

So a four-runner that you can put in two-wheel drive or run in four-wheel drive.

By the way, like 30% of four-runner buyers don't even buy four-by-four in the US.

Like, 30% just buy them as two-wheel drive.

Which is amazing.

But what you guys want is the one that'll do.

Buy a car.

Yeah, exactly.

What you want is the one that will actually have the four-wheel drive running gear.

But most of the rest of the time, you're just driving it around.

Now it's not going to get hybrid electric gas mileage.

But it's not going to be terrible.

And again, I have got a conflicting information on if you can get one in Switzerland.

Can you go to Germany?

Who's got them?

Who's getting them?

But that is my choice over the land cruiser because of the two-wheel drive opportunity.

I think that's excellent.

And I'm 100% on board with that.

I just didn't see them on the Toyota Switzerland site yet.

Yes.

So maybe they're coming, or, again, if it's a different country.

I'm wondering about that.

Don't go get it elsewhere.

But who in the EU is getting a four-runner?

Go go there and get one.

That's great.

Mark Mira, thank you for writing.

Really appreciate it.

Really.

Just so glad that you're sounding consumed by your shopping spots here.

It's really great.

I also love that when you were looking at seven-seaters, you wound up on a whim driving a Miata and then bought it.

That is wonderful.

That you guys just opposite.

But just the fact that the two of you are having those fun driving experiences together and enjoying it, that's just fantastic.

I love it.

DriverTV at Gmail.com, Topic Tuesday's car conclusions and those great debates.

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You know how we've talked about the Genesis G70, and we like it.

It's one of our favorites.

Yeah.

We've also talked about the fact that very briefly for like five minutes, they were apparently rolling manual transmission two liters off the line.

It wasn't long enough.

It wasn't long enough, but they weren't selling, and very few people bought them.

And Justin with our next car debate is one of them.

He bought one.

He loved it.

He had a rare, and he is underselling it when he says rare.

2021 Genesis G70, two liter turbo rear wheel drive manual in green that just got written off.

It was his dream car.

He loved it.

He loved everything about the G70, which is cool looking, luxurious.

Also has a great chassis, very dynamic rear wheel drive, manual transmission.

He liked everything about it.

It got written off by a driver not paying attention.

If you're not following along, that means large wreck, and the car is totaled, and it's gone now.

And he is devastated because he feels like that was the perfect daily driver.

And we have said many times on all of these podcasts, we have said if a car is taken from you,

which is the case for Justin in Alberta, you can go get another one.

But this is a rare enough car that's going to be really hard.

Yeah.

Oh, it was Nurbert Green.

Green Horror.

Nurbert Green.

Green Hell, right?

Yes, for sure.

Oh man.

Justin, I'm really sorry to hear about that.

He's devastated because it was the perfect fun daily that he has been dreaming about for years.

Modern manual and rear wheel drive, impossible to get these days.

We're going to work hard on you.

Yeah, for sure.

We're going to work hard on this to really find something that will be a good replacement.

Although I guess the first question is, have you thought about getting something and searching for that car again?

Because they were so rare, I get it very difficult to find, and you probably need a car sooner rather than later.

I'm sure that thoughts crossed your mind.

He says, due to the rarity of this car, less than 300 made for North America overall, only 73 for 2021.

Okay.

You just answered the question.

He doesn't think he'll be able to get another one, let alone in this color combo.

His car history in order of purchase include a 1997 Chevy Cavalier 5-speed, an 04 Sunfire Auto.

A 2005 Kia Rio 5-speed currently owns a 2012 Super WRX STI limited at 1986, 945 speed,

and a Kia Forte coupe SX6 speed from 2016.

That comes back up later in this conversation.

Keep going.

Sorry, he currently owns the 1987 Porsche 944 S5 speed, and then the total Genesis G70.

He's done a little bit of a car homework before he left for his helicopter access job,

but he's currently on as of writing to us as a female.

He says, 2022 Super BRZ Manual, which he couldn't really enjoy.

That was the drive homework.

He couldn't enjoy because the weather was not good, and they didn't have winter tires.

The few corners that he did take in it did feel fantastic, and the other car he drove was a 2024 Genesis G73.3 Turbo.

There you go.

The updated engine, the bigger engine, but it isn't a manual.

That's the problem.

And that's what he wants to stay with.

He wants to stay manual, but he was seriously impressed with that auto and the speed that the car has.

That's what impressed us, and one of my choices for you is the 2.5 Turbo,

because it costs less, has almost as much power as that 3.3, and that great chassis tuning.

That's one of my choices for you, but I know you want manual.

It impressed us like crazy.

He tried to line up a test drive for an Alpha Romeo Giulia 4 Sonder, and he ran out of time for he had to head out to his job.

And the other car he's gotten is to drive list, include Hyundai Elantra N Manual and the latest Gen Civic SI.

He says he's heard so much about it, even though the specs are identical to his 4-take coupe SX.

I do see the concern there.

We and many others are talking about how great the current Civic chassis is,

how good the Honda Civic in general is in all forms.

We would like it in every form we've driven in, including ones with CBTs.

It's just a good chassis, but he's looking at the specs and going, I had that car.

You're right.

I do see that there's a jump to make there, but as we've said for years,

you can't drive the spec sheet.

So just because the power looks like the disappointing front wheel drive thing you had before,

I think it's worth the drive.

But anyway, Justin mentions some kind of Mercedes might be within his budget,

even though he knows very little about them, and fears the maintenance costs,

or some kind, even though the newer ones are out of his budget,

and probably a few others, he can't think of it at the moment.

Justin doesn't think he wants a BMW because he finds them too common,

with maybe an exception for a two series paired with a manual.

Interesting.

Audi is in the same boat as BMW.

He finds their shifters feel like crap after he test drove a 2011 A5 S-Line

and a 2018 A4 S-Line.

Even though he loves the look of the A5, the GR Coral is also out.

He thinks it would be too similar to an STI.

What he would like is a more modern luxury sports car with rear-wheel drive,

good dynamics and a manual transmission.

You've named everyone listening on the podcast.

Everyone listening, what's that exact car?

We're all going, where is it in the market?

How about a European Shorty 40, the 740 with a smaller engine in the manual?

Look at you.

Like late 90s.

Look at you.

You could probably find the replacement of your car easier than that one.

Well, but also just as we've said, Toyota and Subaru are missing out on an opportunity

to make the new BMW E36 and make a four-door version of 86 chassis.

Everybody wants one.

Justin is not opposed to all-wheel drive.

He would make special exceptions for front-wheel drive if he thinks it's interesting,

and you mentioned that a launcher in, yes.

He wants comfortable interior.

He's allowing himself to get over his manual-only bias,

but only because from his research there are zero cars that meet his criteria in his budget.

Which is 30 to 40,000 Canadian with a power limit of 50,000 if I really impress Justin with something amazing?

I hope.

I think I might have gone there too.

I think I actually blew the budget on this one for what I think is the perfect car,

but we'll get there.

I just want to impress you, Justin, with the choices here.

So he wants us to think of cool cars he's never thought of.

He feels like he's at a loss to try to find something that can replace his near,

perfect to him, manual G70.

That is such a rare car. You are the guy that bought it.

They could not sell those to save their lives when they had it.

And your recent photos of your car was gorgeous.

It was really perfect. I'm very sorry you lost it.

All the manual sports cars, Supra Nissan Z Mustang G86.

I believe you've considered that GRD6 because it is so good.

Go for drives and those.

Let's see.

I already meant in a G70 with a 2.5 liter.

I'm going to hold up the BMW M2.

The first M2, the first generation of BMW M2.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Because we discovered, I don't know what prices are like currently in Canada,

but we discovered that the lowest cost one was 30,000.

So I think that was US.

And I think you could probably find an M2.

It's a competition, but simply an M2 with a manual.

The internet has complained about the rubbery BMW shifter,

but yet it's still a manual.

Everybody's like, give us the manual.

Not just the internet. You and I have complained.

But it is still a manual transmission.

BMW is probably going over there.

We can't please you guys.

But BMWs always had a rubbery manual transmission.

That is their thing.

The Toyota Super Manual got over that because they re-tuned the manual.

It wasn't just a replacement for the M2.

Just know that, Justin.

However, if you go find an M2, I think it would easily fit in your,

the lower section of your budget.

And I think you would really like it.

Now, it's not four doors.

But you know what it is.

It's the Cadillac CT5 and CT4 of these series Blackwing, my friend.

So I went looking.

I found a 2023 Cadillac CT4 Blackwing Manual for $54,891 with 29,000 miles in Orlando.

Come on down to Orlando.

Grab the CT4.

The other problem I found was shopping CT4 Blackwings was branded titles on so many of them.

Every state has different branded title laws.

So don't necessarily overlook those.

But don't gravitate towards the lower price with lower mileage.

Yeah.

Because Autotemps will tell you if it's got a branded title.

Especially salvage.

But branded title could be very minor because of state-to-state laws that vary.

So just know that.

But at least investigate and you might be able to find something for a great deal.

Blackwing, my friend.

You're like the perfect customer.

You and I never share our notes.

No.

And I love when we perfectly align.

Because even though, again, the bottom of the market for the CT4 Blackwing right now is right around $50,000.

So what you're actually spending is 50 to 60, which has blown the budget.

However, I wound up on Autotemps as going through pages of CT4 Blackwing.

Did you?

Because I agree that is Justin's perfect next car.

That's it.

It is the right car for him because the key thing here is the fact that you want something luxurious, nice to be in.

So things like the Elantra Inn, look, I love it.

The Elantra Inn's great.

It's got good seats.

You're never going to get in the Elantra Inn and be like, this is a luxurious car.

Never.

And after the Genesis G70, it's going to feel like a step down.

As great as the Civic SI drives, same problem.

So a lot of these kind of more hot hatch feeling cars are going to love them because they're manuals.

You're going to be disappointed because you're coming out of something that was actually an executive sedan.

And you kind of want the four doors.

The M2 does get close.

I also think you could even go below that.

I was always surprised by this car.

The 228 or the 230 version of the two series.

Yes.

But the proper sports and handling packs in manual is a fantastic car.

Light front end feels related to the 86 in some ways, but it's a BMW.

It's a nicer car.

Yeah.

So that's a worthwhile one.

But I really do think the answer, and I've got another one for you, but the answer really is Paul said it.

It's the CT4V black wing.

Buy a use one of those.

Come down here, grab one.

Take it back up north.

I think that is the answer.

Now be careful on which one you're buying.

But I am yet to meet a person who has not owned a black wing.

And won't talk our ear off about it.

Everyone that has bought one loves it.

Now unfortunately, we haven't driven yet.

We're going to get a chance to drive one in Coda.

I think so.

I'm very excited about it.

But everyone raves about this car.

Journalists we trust.

People that are owners.

Yeah.

The black wings are a stand out vehicle.

And who knows how long they're going to make them.

And what on earth is Cadillac doing?

Providing this car no one else makes.

I'm amazed.

So yeah.

That's the answer.

I'm going to have to fight a market somehow.

They did for sure.

But the thing I think is interesting is you are theoretically willing to entertain leaving

the manual.

And you drove the Genesis G70 with the really good twin turbo six.

And so I have to say, because of those things, there is no reason for you to drive.

The Alpha Julia four cylinder.

Because used in your budget, you can get the one you will actually like.

Since if we're going to entertain no manuals, it's the quadrifolio.

You could get one of those.

And that is going to be everything you want it to be, except a manual.

That is the only downside.

I'm also not a huge fan of the break by wire system on that car.

It's very interesting because it's calibrated.

And some of the other ones are from other brands too.

It's calibrated where you're driving it fast and hard.

The break by wire system is perfect.

When you're dealing with it in traffic, sometimes you're like,

that doesn't feel normal.

It works.

There's no issues with that.

It just doesn't feel like you would expect it to.

Sometimes if it's not a break by wire system in traffic, that's only how I had that problem.

But the quadrifoli was the one you want.

I mean, if you're entertaining the G70 with the V6, go over to the six cylinder in the quadrifolio Alpha.

And I will be surprised if you don't seriously consider buying that car.

I think he could find low mileage examples.

Well, within the meat of his normal budget.

I agree.

Yeah, versus the 50 plus that we're talking about for the Cadillac CT4, which is the right car.

It's just above your budget.

Whereas the Alpha, I think the quadrifoli was in your budget.

And I'd be very surprised if you were like, I don't think so.

Well, as you can tell, his friends, he's got the car with the moose antlers that are screwed to the steering wheel.

Yes, not the steering wheel.

And he can say, let me take you for ride.

Check this out.

The antlers of those shift paddles, they are.

They are not kid around.

You could take them off and just hang them above your fireplace.

They're just antlers.

It's just the Italian thing.

Maserades, Ferraris, all the cars, man.

Lamborghini, channel that Italian mess of the car.

I mean, it's actually interesting.

Cool.

It's a Ferrari-related motor.

So I mean, there's those things as well.

It's very cool.

That's on your license tag, Ferrari-related.

Yeah, that's a lot of letters.

But I like Ferrari.

I don't know.

Half Ferrari.

No, that's a 4C.

Very good.

Excellent.

Justin, happy hunting, wishing you all the best and let us know which end up buying.

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Lots of good questions.

Lots of good questions as always.

Thank you guys for responding on Facebook and Instagram when we reach out.

We posted the piece that we just dropped on YouTube.

This is the GT cars.

This is the Mercedes AMG GT63 S.

And the, I'm going to do it all.

The Porsche 992.2 GTS Carrera 4T hybrid.

There it is.

Nice.

I need to lay down.

But anyway, so we posted both of those and multiple of you on YouTube and here.

And I want to answer this because this is a great question.

Have asked a variation of the same question and that is, hang on a minute.

What is up with the color of that Mercedes?

And then you're calling us out and you're right to do so because we raged up against the color

that was recently on the ND3 Miata that we drove.

Yes.

That is related to this color.

They're similar.

They're not the same.

They are similar colors.

We hated it on the ND Miata and we both like is too strong a word.

But we both enjoyed the Mercedes in spite of the color.

And we kept looking at it going.

You know, I hated it on first glance.

And the longer we had the car, we were like, you know what?

I would still take it in that color.

Where is the ND Miata?

I forget that I don't fit for a minute.

I would not take in the other color.

I just wouldn't get it.

Even if somebody tried to give you an ND3?

Well, first off, I don't fit in that color.

No, I wouldn't.

No, no, no.

They gave me one of the color, great.

I'm saying that terrible mustard color.

That color.

I wouldn't take that color.

Okay.

I did a different one.

It's pretty nasty.

The thing with this Mercedes color is it is there is that car has such a presence in person.

Yeah.

And something about that weird mustard color, which I will admit to you is not a color I like

and shouldn't be on that car.

I would take it in the other color they offered in.

But it had such a presence and the gold wheels, that car over time it was like, I would never have

spec'd it this way.

But it somehow is working.

It does.

Weirdly.

And I want to be careful because I can't say, yeah, I like it.

I don't.

I would pick another color.

But at the same time, something about the color that Mercedes has ended up with on that

car is okay.

Austin Kruger on Facebook, you were asking specifically what makes that tan color work on the

AMG and not on the Miata.

It is the amount of yellow, the amount of ochre that is in the paint that makes the difference.

It's still a subdued, sophisticated neutral, but it's got more color.

Imagine paint out of the tube.

Beautiful rich color that is in the desert sand, the makeup of that color.

Miata felt greener.

It was certainly greener, but it was a dollar.

There's too much black in it.

It was also dollar.

You're right.

It was both of those things.

And they ended up with a color that I suppose in the right light might have impressed somebody from the

market department.

Certainly enough to offer as a color.

It was a really bad choice.

But it doesn't do justice to the fun, small sporty nature of the car.

It's not a large, big cruiser yet sports car that the Mercedes is.

The Mercedes captures it.

Well, the other thing is that Miata color, you can also get on things like the Mazda CX50.

And I can almost see it there because we're leaning toward a sandy off-road color.

But on the Miata, which is just fun on four wheels, it wasn't the right color.

Also Austin asks us if we're coming all the way to Nashville after we go to Coda.

And you know, we're covering a lot of the country.

There's going to be places we just have to skip.

I think unfortunately Nashville is on the skip list.

But we are getting awfully close.

We are going from Austin all the way over to Knoxville.

So we're going through Memphis.

I mean, we're getting close.

Can you come to us, Austin?

Can you come a little ways?

Where would be thousands of miles from home?

I don't think Nashville's on the list.

Michael Whitesell on Facebook asks how we would define a low mileage car.

I like this.

Equation being X equals Y times 10,000 divided by two.

So does that mean a 20-year-old car with 100,000 miles below?

Should the denominator be higher?

It's a 10,000 over two.

Yeah.

Is there a max total value?

Milage is the denominator, I think.

So it would be maintenance over mileage, always.

Look at you trying to do math.

I'm actually going to sit here and just listen.

I went to the art school, man.

It's always maintenance over mileage.

And we take a very well maintained with higher miles,

knowing that you'll need to continue to do that.

But it always seems like those really high-mile cars.

How did they get there?

Yes.

Through excellent maintenance.

And I'll give you a story, Michael.

And that is the yellow Acura NSX that we recently drove

in our Emira and Ferrari 360 spider comparison.

Love it, that's a great one.

That was the third car.

So we picked that up.

It's locally owned.

And it was privately owned.

And we got in and noted the odometer said 80,000 miles.

It was pushing 81.

Mm-hmm.

Close the door.

It felt new.

Started it up.

It sounded and felt new.

Driving away for the first time felt kind of close to new.

There was nothing about that.

If you had told me 8,000 miles instead of 80,

I would have believed you.

So we asked the owner.

What happened?

And he said, oh, the maintenance has been very diligently done

on this car.

The prior owner, he did it.

Yep.

He said, I have kept on top of the maintenance

and fixed any little thing immediately.

And that's the result you get.

A high mileage excellent car.

So we don't know what car you're considering.

But for 20 years, 10,000 miles,

that seems to be right in the average.

I think low would be considered maybe five to eight years.

100,000 miles.

So maybe 80,000 miles or so on a 20 year old car

would be pretty low.

Very low, yeah.

50,000 something like that.

Yeah, for sure.

Consider pretty low.

So I think whatever your car with this equation,

denominator does not need to be higher.

10,000 is your average.

That's what we've heard.

10 to 12 actually is the average.

So leave it there and add a 20 year old,

20 year time frame.

I think you're doing just fine,

but maintenance first.

Look at the maintenance records.

This was the thing that I proved with spot the mini

when I bought that.

That's another great example.

Another great example.

85,000 miles on an early mini Cooper.

That says runaway.

Everything about that is runaway.

Yes.

And I looked at the photos and was like,

this is pristine.

And then I got to the guy's house

and I saw that his garage,

I mean, it's an exaggeration,

but it was true there.

It was one of the few garage was in.

It was like, you know what people say?

You can eat off the floor?

That's this garage.

That was what this term was.

It's just fine.

The guy eating off the floor.

No, because he certainly would have done that in his garage.

It was pristine.

It was too nice.

So nice.

His garage, honestly,

and he'd lived there a long time.

So I'm trying to paint this picture.

You know when you walk into a brand new,

just built house.

They've just finished building it.

They just swept it out.

Right.

Yeah.

That's what his garage was like.

And I was like, this has been used for years.

How is this building, this clean?

Huh?

And I'm seeing that the thing was up on a lift

and he lowers it down off the lift

and he tells me the story about how he rebuilt

the supercharger over the winter

and I said to my wife,

it's like, we're buying this car.

Did you tell me he was like,

polishing the supercharger impellers

as he was watching TV

for four months over the winter?

He took it apart

and watched it while he was watching

whatever TV show over the winter.

He like rebuilt the supercharger

and then sold the car

and here's the thing.

That's the car you want.

Yes.

The car wasn't worth anything.

So he couldn't get all of his labor back out of it.

Yes.

But that car was pristine 185,000 miles.

Everything about that was

please don't buy until you saw the car

and the maintenance.

So maintenance is key.

And the way it drove,

we got in,

it was perfect.

It was perfect.

It wasn't my car.

Exactly right.

So outside of an equation,

Michael, the question is,

you want to get into the car

and be like,

this doesn't have that many miles.

That's the feeling you want.

You want to get in the car

and be like,

I can't believe this has

X number of miles.

From an equation perspective,

any car that was driven

less than 10,000 miles a year

is headed toward low miles.

But you want to have this experience

we did in the NSX

or I didn't spot them anywhere

when you see it

and then you get it

and you close the door

and you work everything

you just go,

I can't believe this has

that many.

That's correct.

On Facebook,

Seth Kay asks

about the AMG GT

and the 9-11,

both having frameless windows,

why is that?

Neither is it comparable.

Does that lead

to increased interior noise

and doesn't it also

make for a worse door

thunk?

Not necessarily,

even though

framed windows

make the most

excellent thunks.

Yes, you're right.

I believe it's design.

I believe it's

simply comes down

to design

and they can get away

with it.

Seth,

because the DLO

is so small.

That is the designer term

for daylight opening.

It doesn't need to

and it would add

increased weight

on already small,

admittedly small cars

even though both are

still too heavy

for our taste.

But that DLO

doesn't need

the extra frame support

like a four-door sedan wood.

Okay, so also the door openings

they're a little bit larger.

But again, it comes

down to the glass area.

It's not very big.

The door is tall.

The proportion of the door

to the window.

Sure.

The door is very tall

and heavy.

The glass area,

not very much at all

and it doesn't need that support

so it would be

essentially overkill

to design a framed door

that way.

It also destroys

the clean fluid lines

because just imagine.

Don't imagine

that DLO

as one shape

drawn from a side elevation

is just one fluid shape

split by where you have

the three-quarter window

and the actual window

that drops in the door.

Designs want to keep that

and because

the technology is excellent.

We've got the construction methods

to make the window

still seal properly.

And it's not just a weight savings.

It really comes down

to the design

and the integrity

in keeping that design

because imagine having

to add a clunky frame

to that,

well, you've killed

the entire theme in the car.

Interesting.

I like that.

Petrolhead 2003

is asking multiple questions

about our Coda Meetup

and there's a lot going on.

We're driving in

and we've got a road tour.

We've got two really cool days on track

where we're trying to line up

the local cars

and coffee to be there.

There's going to be food trucks.

There's going to be general hanging out.

In general,

if you are coming

as Petrolhead 2003 once to

and you aren't going to be on track,

just come.

There's not a door fee.

Okay. Now,

and there's also,

you're asking about signups.

There's also not other signups

going on right now

with one exception.

There will be signups

and a small fee

for attending the podcast.

Only because the space

where we're going to do it

is limited.

So we have to have

some sort of gatekeeping there

and that's what we're going to do.

So that is going to happen.

So there will be signup

for attending the 1000 podcast.

Literally,

we're only going to be able

to take like 40 people.

So it's going to be a very,

now it'll be obviously out there.

Otherwise,

but the actual venue

is going to be very small.

So I'm looking forward to that.

So that will have signup.

But otherwise,

you can just attend.

They'll have to sign a waiver

at the gate. All tracks

have a waiver standard waiver

at the gate to get

onto the facility.

But then after that,

you can just be there,

hang out, say hello to people.

There's going to be some cars

on display.

We're looking forward to that.

People walking around

will obviously be there

both days.

We will be on track

on and off.

He's asked about ride-alongs.

He's asked about rides

with instructors.

I'm going to say

a tentative yes.

A parental maybe.

How about that?

And actually,

that's not fair.

Because a parental maybe

is probably a no.

No, I'm going to give a genuine maybe.

A genuine maybe.

Because hopefully,

we're going to have the capability

of Paul and I

giving ride-alongs

and or instructors

that don't have a actual

student in that moment

giving ride-along.

I can't guarantee that.

So that's why we're not doing signup

for that.

But generally at our

hook-to-on driving events,

that's something we can make happen.

So depending upon the volume of need,

we'll really dictate it.

But we would love to have you there.

We'd love to have any

and all of you coming.

If you're in the area,

you want to come down for it.

We'd love to see you there.

It's going to be a lot of fun.

On Instagram,

Dill Ray asks,

how many characters long

will model names be

in 20 years?

Would we care

to give an over-under?

The Mercedes-AMG GT-E63 S-E performance.

G-G-T?

Did you say GT?

I think I did.

I'm confused.

I can't remember.

Versus the Porsche 992.2 911

Carrera 4GTS-T hybrid.

That's good.

That's long.

Ah.

Dill Ray,

it comes down to

whether or not you think

hybrids will be available in the future.

And I hope they are.

I predict that they will be.

I hope that car manufacturers

don't try to describe

all the technology in a single name.

That's the problem.

That's where it comes from.

Yes.

We've got a gas motor.

We've got a battery.

We've got electric motors.

We've got all-wheel drive.

We've got the entire drivetrain

being tried to describe

in a single one

with the other problem is,

manufacturers try to standardize

if it's the all-wheel-drive hybrid.

It's this.

So we have to add that

nomenclature to the end of the

already long model name.

If it's not all-wheel-drive,

it's just rear-wheel-drive,

but doesn't have the hybrid technology,

then we have to add this.

It's a different design.

Oh, my God.

In the marketplace,

because customers notice.

Yeah.

Going 55, 63,

so gotcha Germany long ago,

abandoned and tying the number

to the displacement.

It's a road.

That's where it was born from.

That made sense at one point, yes.

Let that go.

Porsche names cars turbos,

even though they're not.

Now they even came out with

even cooler turbo technology

that actually is a housing

that is a turbo,

even though they still name

the turbo EV, the turbo

that doesn't have this cool turbo.

You know what I hadn't thought

about that until this minute

when you brought it up?

We've been teasing Porsche

because they have turbos

that are actually their EVs,

and now they've done something

revolutionary to actual turbos

that make the turbo name

mean something again,

but they've already thrown it away.

But the turbo is back as being a turbo,

even though it's both.

You know what they've done?

It's both.

It's EV.

It's electric motor

and turbo technology in one.

It is.

They can buy this.

Yes.

Maybe they were so.

The T hybrid.

It should be the T hybrid EV.

Don't hurt yourself.

I am going to hurt myself.

I think about a whole subject.

Don't break your brain.

I'm very confused by this.

Well, but then here's the problem.

Are you going to have the

Porsche 992.2

turbo T hybrid?

Yes, because it could be

twin turbo T hybrid.

Oh.

911 twin,

but the turbo actual 911 turbo,

even though all the rest of these are turbo,

you have to acknowledge the turbo

in the name.

Here, it's just acknowledged as T hybrid.

I'm aware, standing for turbo.

But there is a 911 turbo

that's now going to be the turbo T hybrid.

But it will be the 911 turbo

turbo.

How many of you have turned off the

podcast at this point?

Just go on.

You know what, guys, I'm out.

I'm sorry.

There's five minutes left that I'm done.

It comes down to what we think

that technology will be

and manufacturers describing everything

that's packed into the car.

Because if it's just an EV,

Ferrari can get away with just

the name of the car,

just like they've always done.

But not everybody else.

Volvo is going to twist themselves

into knots.

Volvo is desperate to tell you

everything that's going on with the car.

Meanwhile, Ferrari is just naming

things out of the first thing

that came to their brain.

Oh, that has 12 cylinders.

Pick another cool Italian

hybrid as 12 cylinders.

Or just 12 cylinders.

We're done.

Can we go for coffee now?

I'm really finished.

Yeah.

Bruce B is saying on Instagram,

I just wanted to thank you for this,

Bruce.

You said that you've listened to a

non-automotive podcast the other day,

and he was surprised at how much

we don't use filler words.

And I'm basically so like,

look, Bruce, I will admit it.

We do.

We use them, and we use them more

than we want to.

Paul does a really good job on edit

often over moving the ones

that are egregious,

but it happens.

Absolutely.

I am very guilty of going,

and then continuing with my thought,

I do it all the time.

It's very much something that I do.

Thank you for liking our cadence.

It's something that we do work on.

We try to keep things moving.

And this is a plague.

It is an absolute plague

in hosting in general.

And I remember,

I was actually editing a piece

this years ago,

and I was editing a commercial

that was like a series of commercials

promoting various teachers

and accomplished people

in this one area of study.

Okay?

And there was this one

extremely intelligent,

female PhD.

Okay?

And she was a college lecturer.

Okay.

And I was trying to cut

a two-minute snippet of her.

Uh-oh.

There were 38 ums in two minutes.

And I had to take them out.

I had to take them out.

I mean, the fact that you remember

this year's layers.

Yes, tell us.

38 in 120 seconds.

That is a staggering amount.

And I just kept imagining this person

who clearly based on their resume

and what they were doing.

And frankly,

if you took out all the ums,

what they were saying.

No question she's smarter than me.

No question she has stuff

to bring to the world.

But I'm imagining being an audience member,

a student sitting in class

where that much, um,

is happening.

It's maddening.

So all of that to say,

thank you for complimenting us.

We don't do as well as we'd like.

And we're going to keep it

delivering to do better.

Guys, thank you for all your questions.

We sure appreciate it.

Keep going to us.

Oh, sorry.

Guys.

It's because people want to keep the floor.

They want to finish a thought.

Yes.

Or they're trying to formulate the next thought.

Yes.

And they haven't yet.

It's critical thinking skills

that are involved.

And they're using um as the connector

while their brain fires.

It's mine.

It's my pause, but, uh,

you still have the floor.

But they don't want to give it the floor

to somebody else because they want to keep talking.

Still making noise.

You and I talk over each other more than

like people would like us to.

Yes.

But that's just our banter.

That's what we do.

We sure appreciate it.

Keep rightness questions.

And we're looking forward to next time.

And we're looking forward to seeing you.

Yes, you.

Yes.

At coma.

It's going to be such a cool event.

We're so excited.

Cheers, everyone.

991: Worldwide Plague Of Enthusiasts, Losing The Perfect Car, Names Are Way Too Long

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