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AAH #715 - How to Fix the Global EV Infrastructure
AAH #715 - How to Fix the Global EV Infrastructure
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About this episode
Exploring the challenges and innovations in global EV infrastructure, this episode features Deanna from the University of Michigan, who discusses the transition to electric mobility in developing countries. Key insights include the importance of diverse vehicle types beyond cars, the role of local startups in creating electric solutions, and the need for adaptable policies. The conversation also touches on job displacement concerns due to EV production and the necessity for workforce retraining. Additionally, a segment highlights a unique high school program in Detroit that prepares students for careers in the automotive industry.
Topics:
global ev infrastructure
electric mobility
developing countries
job displacement
workforce retraining
high school programs
electric bicycles
policy strategies
innovation in automotive
local startups
TOPIC: EV Infrastructure Brand PANEL: Diana Páez, William Davidson Institute; Chris Lynch, Detroit Cristo Rey; Tania Barba, Student; Gary Vasilash, shinymetalboxes.net; John McElroy, Autoline.tv
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Lotus 2 Eleven
"Speaker 5: So in twenty. Speaker 2: Eleven, a performer didn't add for a vehicle, and the ad was probably more significant than the vehicle. Oh, today's the performer's fifty second birthday."
Car
Dodge Ram
"...r Speaker 4: Uh, you know, Dodge and Chrysler and Ram and Jeep and they all saw that ad for the Chrysle..."
Car
3 Three Wheelers
"... very successfully, specifically on again two and three wheelers. So these are different types of vehicles because..."
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
"...r friend Mark Royce took out a twenty twenty five Corvette z R one and took it to two hundred and thirty. Sp..."
Car
Tesla Cybercab
"...odel too. And so you know, they're calling it the Cybercab, and you're going to have you know, full autonomo..."
Select text to request an explanation
Speaker 1: I'll online after hours. Is brought to you by bridge
Stone Tires Solutions for your journey.
Speaker 2: Hello, Gary John missed you last week?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was. I was busy. I was out
doing my thing. So but you had a good show.
Speaker 2: It was very good show. Thank you, and it's I
got a little something here for you to ponder.
Speaker 4: Okay, a historic happening on this date in the automotive industry.
Speaker 2: Correct, But this is this is this has got a pop culture connection. Okay, we may actually have some shout
outs from people in the studio.
Speaker 5: Yeah, who may have the answer?
Speaker 3: Okay, I gotta fall flat on my face.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 5: So in twenty.
Speaker 2: Eleven, a performer didn't add for a vehicle, and the ad was probably more significant than the vehicle. Oh, today's
the performer's fifty second birthday.
Speaker 5: Name the perform and the vehicle.
Speaker 3: Uh Eminem Chrysler two hundred.
Speaker 5: See okay, easy it can be.
Speaker 6: See.
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say Celine Diana and I drove all night and that.
Speaker 6: Was the That was in two thousand and three.
Speaker 4: For no, no, look the key giveaways when you said the ad was more significant than the car, that was maybe the best automotive ad of all time, the car Man.
So I mean it was easy for the ad to beat it, but the ad was phenomenal.
Speaker 2: Arguably the ad was an ad for Detroit.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 4: It was in fact, you know, it was a two minute ad that ran on the Super Bowl. I mean,
who does a two minute ad anymore?
Speaker 3: That that?
Speaker 4: That one by the wayside a long time ago, and the inside story on.
Speaker 3: That is all the Fiach Chrysler. It was Fiach Chrysler
at the time.
Speaker 4: Uh, you know, Dodge and Chrysler and Ram and Jeep and they all saw that ad for the Chrysler two hundred and each one of those brand leaders said, I give up my ad, throw all the money into this one run.
Speaker 3: Because they were going to chop it up.
Speaker 4: They were going to do thirty seconds for each of the brands, and when the other brand manager saw that, they were like, forget about it. That thing is just
too awesome, and they ran the full two minutes.
Speaker 2: So happy birthday, EM and M.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4: So we should tell everybody what we've got in store for today's show. We have an expert in I don't know,
Deannas from the University of Michue.
Speaker 3: What is your expertise?
Speaker 7: Right, yeah, thank you so much for having me. I
would say right now, I'm quite focused on the transition to electric mobility electric vehicles across segments in low and middle income countries, so specifically implications for countries around the world, particularly developing countries.
Speaker 4: Okay, So we're going to get into that in a minute.
And then at the halfway point of the show. You know,
everybody in this industry is complaining about we can't get young talent to come in here. We have got a
great story on exactly how that's happening with very innovative high school in Detroit. But we'll get to that at
the half hour point. Let's talk to Deanna.
Speaker 2: So Danna, Okay, so you're with the William Davidson Institute.
I mean, what does w do I do in general?
And how to year focus fit into that?
Speaker 8: Absolutely?
Speaker 9: So.
Speaker 7: WDI is an institute affiliated with the University of Michigan.
We are on campus. We work very closely with the
Business School Ross, but also we interact and engage with colleges across campus with faculty. We also engage students sometimes
in some of our projects. The mission of the institute
is really focused on supporting economic growth and development in low and middle income countries. That was the mission from
the beginning and continues to be so today by bringing a lot of expertise focused on business, business knowledge, business tools applied in different sectors essentially, So in a nutshell, that's the mission of the institute. It was established in
nineteen ninety two. You need to expand to work across
different sectors, including on education, quite a bit of focus on entrepreneurship development and supporting businesses and startups in those markets.
Also work in global health, global health so healthcare specifically, and then on energy and mobility in addition to other areas that are cross cutting, including performance measurement and impact measurement as well.
Speaker 3: So our interest clearly is mobility.
Speaker 4: On this show, certainly, and prior to the show, you were talking a little bit about how do we build out this EV infrastructure in developing and middle income countries.
I mean, what are your thoughts on that? And I
ask it from this standpoint, the US is struggling with trying to get an EV charging infrastructure and even just trying to get people to buy enough evs.
Speaker 3: Europe's going through the same thing.
Speaker 4: So why even folk when you have you know, two the richest regions of the world struggling with this, why look at developing nations.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a great question, John So. And in fact,
you know, really our work because it's focused there. We're
really keen on exploring innovations happening in those markets, how the implications of the transition to electric vehicles are playing out, the different players in a particular ecosystem that have a role to play there, to advance to enable this transition as well, and then really finding opportunities for partnering you know, across countries, including with Michigan, that are different players that are quite interested in that too. But to your question,
in terms of charging infrastructure, this is one or you know, the infrastructure for evs generally. This is where we try
to zoom out first and foremost not to think just about vehicles about cars. Okay, so first and foremost we
need to think about vehicles across segments. And I'll give
you an example. Some of our work in Ghana is
with a startup focused on electric bicycles for gig workers, you know, delivery essentially delivery workers for the gig economy in Acra in the capital. They are a startup, super innovative.
They're looking to produce manufacturer vehicles in Ghana, electric vehicles, in this case the bicycles that has never been done before.
They're focused on developing the supply chain in the country, working with artisans to kind of prototype different types of components for that, supporting the ecosystem for innovation in the country, employing talent, local talent and training as well to be able to provide this solution. Right, it is an electric
mobility solution that a bicycle you can charge it in a regular outlet. There isn't an issue in terms of infrastructure.
In another case, in Mexico where I come from, there is for example, a company that is focused on the mini cars. Right, they have the really small cars. Those
also you can charge in a regular outlet. Of course
there's range issues, etc. They are for a particular use case.
So the first thing to think of about is that this goes beyond cars. This goes beyond a specific use
case or application. There are many different types of electric mobility.
Electric buses is another example. In Colombia Tilate they are
some of the countries with the most electric buses outside of China. So we are interested in those stories and
aggregating and generating insights about those stories in emerging markets, developing knowledge and tools that can help others as well, and then implementing these types of partnerships.
Speaker 2: So, Dan, you guys did a study mapping the emobility transition, and you looked at Michigan, California, India, China, South Africa, and Brazil. And there's a quote in here which I
think is very provocative, and I want to read it, and then I want you to explain it to us.
You say, since the technology and parts that are involved in EV production are so different, it is not obvious that those who succeeded in the ice world are best suited to succeed as we transition to evs. Incumbancy therefore,
does not guarantee success, even though many the factors that have contributed to that success high quality, low costs, et cetera.
Are certainly applicable to building evs. Ultimately, this shift requires
a high degree of agility and flexibility from companies interested in capturing market share. This creates an opportunity for new
companies to compete all along the EV value chain. So
it sounds like you're saying incumbency is that sufficient?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think we're seeing that right now, right, And it's a real concern in terms of we have the legacy companies that are of course focused on the ice business, but also electrifying their products, and we know what's happening right now right a lot of in some cases, some of the companies have are revisiting, re examining their targets because of their you know, I would say right now a slowdown in their market growth, but the trajectory and the growth continue those are That's very clear in terms of the data, which is what we're looking at right.
You have the headlines, you have the numbers. It continues
to grow. Adoption is growing in North America, is slower
this year than what it was expected based on previous years, but we see that just globally again growing and we see the trend from the climate perspective, from the policy perspective, from the economics perspective, the efficiency perspective.
Speaker 8: They are better products.
Speaker 7: We want them, right, we want to produce them as well.
So I think to going back to that report, what we try to do is kind of map out, Okay, how do the opportunities for businesses along the entire value chain because you have the addition of the battery and the entire supply chain, you have the addition of charging, right, and that kind of also it's another story or another narrative within the broader evy ecosystem. So how has that
changed a little bit some of the opportunities in the place for different companies. We looked at that and then
we looked at those markets that you mentioned to look at the factors the enablers. There are so many implications
for policy for infrastructure tangible and tangible, but also workforce, which is one of the key parts also that we have been working on when you look at a particular market.
And in terms of incumbency too, we have really fierce global competition right now and by global aim in China but really everywhere else too. And we know this, So
what are we seeing. We require more innovation, doubling down
on investments. It's really difficult if you keep kind of
moving the target, right, If you can't commit as a company and really really go for it and look for different ways to innovate, then you know, it's just hard to get there.
Speaker 8: In terms of sending mixed.
Speaker 7: I think a lot of mixed signals, which is a little bit of what we're seeing.
Speaker 4: Sure, but you've got to be adaptable too, because look, you're right, evs are still the fastest growing segment in the market, but the industry has invested way beyond where the sales are right now, and you you know, unfortunately EV's have become highly politicized. Certainly in the United States.
The country is evenly divided, so right off the bat, half the population wants nothing to do with evs, and so it certainly looks like the twenty thirty two EPA targets for electric share of market is at least at this snapshot in time, not going to happen.
Speaker 3: So, and I agree with you.
Speaker 4: You want stability, you know, and businesses need that. If
everything's moving around, they're going to hold back and not invest.
Once they have certainty, then they can invest. But you
also have to have flexibility in your regulations.
Speaker 7: I think, yeah, And you have to have flexibility, like you said, an agility in terms of that. But I
think the question too is like it's a little bit of you know, chicken and egg, and so many of these problems are chicken and eggy problems. Because then it's like, okay,
there's some work to be done in terms of consumer education right now because this is such a politicized issue and work heading to an election, I think we're going where we're just going through that kind of hump in a way, but it's going to it's going to pass. Okay,
it's going to pass. We have to focus on why
this is a better product. We have to develop products
that are more affordable. They're just too expensive. That's reality.
It's just the reality in terms of software integration and everything that goes related to just really making this a better product. Seeing this product, there's still a long way
to go, I think in many of the products that we have accessible here right now. So there's that, and
there's thinking about you know, charging infrastructure. A lot of
it is being deployed now that is going to move the needle. I do believe that because a lot of
people think, well, this is the main the main problem or the main hurdle. In the meantime, there's growth in hybrids,
we have plugins, there's you know, I think they're more and more. The consumer is kind of understanding and seeing
also the difference in terms of those products.
Speaker 2: So I have a feeling maybe Akio Toyota read your report, because a few weeks ago he made this announcement about how he was concerned about the switch to EVS affecting jobs.
And one of the points that you make in this report is that if you look at what is going to be going away, and you've taken budget engines, transmissions, exhaust systems, fuel injection systems, they're going to phase out as the shift comes in.
Speaker 5: And you add, if that's not enough.
Speaker 2: That elements that are going into EVS are simpler, comparatively speaking, simpler to manufacture than these other things. So it seemed
to me that there's there's possible huge job displacement as a result of this.
Speaker 7: So is that has been I think the narrative for a while, right with that with kind of like I would say, contradictory data in terms of analysis of what that would change. Very recently, faculty at the University of
Michigan experts in this. They actually conducted a new and
just released a new research report focused on understanding and analyzing the job specifically how much more labor is required in you know, EVS versus ICE. Looking at plants in
the us that are producing EV's, and in fact is the opposite. They require more labor, especially as the as
the plants are ramping up, and that's available already.
Speaker 8: I had nothing to do with this report.
Speaker 7: It's faculty at engineering at the University of Michigan, but that was actually quite eye opening, and we need those that type of data precisely to combat some of the narrative.
I think the point is too, that the types of jobs and where we need more labor is different and require different skills from the ones that are going to be lost because of the components and parts that we will no longer be needing. So the point is that
there might be more jobs, but it's not in the same areas. And then if you look at investments and
in plants and facilities, also might not be exactly in the same communities where the plans for you know, in some cases for ice vehicles are So you have all of these implications related to potentially impacted communities, which are very serious.
Speaker 4: I'd like to dig deeper into that with you, because I didn't read the full report, I saw the headline and I had questions about it. If you're starting to
count all the jobs that go into mining of raw materials and processing of raw materials for batteries and even you know, rare earth metals that might go into electric motors.
Then I would agree there might be an opportunity for employment to stay the same in the quote unquote automotive industry.
But I got to believe if you're looking at traditional automotive jobs, especially in assembly plants, there's just not going to be as many.
Speaker 7: I don't believe that the report actually included anything upstream in terms of mining, but I will I will caveat that by saying that I have not read the full report. However,
I did look at just some of the summary. I
believe it was focused only in the assembly manufacturing plants. However,
the point, you know, I think the point remains that there are questions around this, the types of skills, the place where the minds are there simply absolutely there will be job displacements. So the question is how do we
prepare support those communities, find or create opportunities for employment that actually can align with the talent of those you know of people who will be affected, develop up skilling and reskilling training of programs as well, and so forth.
Speaker 4: The success rate of retraining and upscilling. Where do we
stand on that? Do you have any data on that?
Because my guess is it hasn't been all that good.
Speaker 7: You know, I don't have data in terms of the success rate. But I also think it's because it's fairly
new at least, you know, some of the research we've done, it's actually focused on EV training programs around the world in different markets. We were trying to see what topics,
what skills are they focused on, what types of models, business models, Specifically different organizations, educational institutions, universities, et cetera.
Companies too are following to be able to train, retrain and offering this. Offering these trainings itself is a business opportunity, right, So,
but I think you're right there are questions about success rate and also what types of jobs are going to be waiting for these people in their communities. So it's
not only develop a training program. You have to make
sure there's a pipeline of jobs.
Speaker 4: And I think you said the key there in their community, because I believe other jobs will be created one hundred necessarily where say, internal combustion engine plants or transmission plants are located.
Speaker 7: One hundred percent, So I think that is an area that requires quite a bit of attention of collaboration of work.
I remember just a conversation I had recently with somebody from the U of M centered for Social solutions, and they were looking also at some of the impacts like essentially this just transition which is the concept of not leaving anybody behind based on the energy transition, which transition to EVS is part of that really so, and I believe she you know, she talked about something about looking for adjacent related job opportunities. Maybe it's not exactly in
that if there's something about like let removal, so depending on what's happening, what are potential opportunities for this population is in adjacent you know sectors. You know.
Speaker 2: One of the things I was wondering about that you may have looked into is as you're looking at these other countries and in their development of.
Speaker 5: EVS, that.
Speaker 2: The United States and Western Europe have long standing ice based automobile companies. China pretty much started much later, and
they're having great success in terms of their EVS. And
there's a lot of reasons why that's the case. But
it's still doing very well. Is it possible that countries
like India and South Africa and Brazil could have a growing ev capability because they don't have as much legacy manufacturing as Western Europe in the US have.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I think first and foremost of course, you know, we like to think and talk about emerging markets. It's
not a block, right, They're all very different as well, but there are some commonalities and some trends. The reason
why we looked in that report specifically at South Africa, Brazil and India was because there was already automotive expertise and they're also very keen on transition in their supply chains and developing production capabilities for electric vehicles.
Speaker 8: I would say India is.
Speaker 7: The one that is absolutely going forward and very successfully, specifically on again two and three wheelers. So these are
different types of vehicles because that is the prime some of the primary way in which people move. So you
know their car vehicle ownership for car is very low, so it's not the same features in terms of the market.
But two and three wheelers they're electric, so that is also electrification. They're being very, very successful with really really
high growth rates. I don't remember right now, it's forty percent.
It's insane right now. So India is one story. South Africa,
I know they're developing a lot of policies. I think
I think that might be slower in Brazil. Is Brazil
has been picking up a lot too. They have a
different a different story too in that they started and they've done a lot with biofuels and other types of flex fuel technologies for their vehicles. But they are also
betting a lot on evs and now they have a BYD plant in Brazil which was previously a fork plant, right, So you have those type of stories, but also other countries because of what I you know what I what we taked touch on in the report as well, looking at the entire value chaining, and you brought up mining and we have critical minerals and then you have countries like Indonesia and others with very you know, like a very rich ecosystem and availability for the minerals that are needed.
So they're also looking to play a role in the av supply chain that maybe before wasn't as available in terms of entering that space.
Speaker 4: Earlier you talked about studying the enablers that would allow this to happen. What are some of the key things
that you've focused in on and what are these enablers?
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, So we looked at, you know, policy strategies, workforce strategies, and infrastructure related strategies, and I can if you touch on a couple of examples. I mean, policy,
for sure is the key lever that is clear, that is in great part what has allowed China to be where it is right policy, and we can talk about why that is certainly, but policy is a very very very important feature and enabler for these transitions. So first
and foremost for the countries we look at, do they have an immobility roadmap or policy or something, or evy industry support in some way, because you do need that.
Speaker 8: And then people say, well, without subsidizes will evs.
Speaker 7: Are not going to work, and we also subsidize vehicles and gas and so many other things. So that's not
really an argument, right, but you need a policy framework that can be conducive and can enable businesses, can enable local innovation very important, so that countries are not just looking at attracting foreign investment but actually developing league companies as well that can engage.
Speaker 8: So police is.
Speaker 7: One, infrastructure is a second, not just thinking about charging infrastructure, because I think that is kind of like a reductive way of looking at it. You need a lot more
for this type of ecosystem to really develop, right And it might be also ecosystem orchestrators, somebody that is really kind of trying to organize and orchestrate a little bit the work of different players across different sectors.
Speaker 8: If the state or the particular.
Speaker 7: Context is this is a priority for us, we want to play. We want to benefit maybe because of air pollution,
maybe we want to benefit for export, Maybe we want to I don't know, we have minerals, we can develop batteries or you know, whatever that might be. Then you
really need to have that infra tangible and intangible infrastructure and environment to support this transition too. And last, but
not least, workforce, which is critically important not only the topics related to transitioning the current automotive work person what might happen with that, but also developing really innovative training programs focused on EVY related skills. And again, depending on
what the story is the emmobility story in a particular context, that might be somewhat different. It's been great to learn
from efforts in different places. I mentioned Ghana earlier. They've
had a master's that specifically for in engineering focused on electric vehicles for the past eight years, and I'm like, yeah, you know, can we please learn from your curriculum. So
there's just a lot that is happening in other places, and in our work we try to just like, really, you know, highlight those efforts.
Speaker 2: So are these three things equal or is one more significant than the other.
Speaker 7: That's a great question. I think I did mention that policy.
I believe has you know, has perhaps more weight, But I do think that they are all interrelated. You have
to look at it with a system's lens, and there's also more. But you know, we just try to think
about it. How do we how can we think about
the specific enablers or key factors that can really kind of move a little And we came up with those three that are just I think, very basic. But the
point is that there's a whole ecosystem of players right right, and there's room for new types of players and new types of collaboration to really kind of help with that development.
Speaker 4: Yan right now, you mentioned international competition in EVS and mentioned China.
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, China, dominates.
Speaker 4: The segment so much so that the United States and Europe are putting up tariffs to try to slow down the Chinese from coming in because they take over the whole ev sector. Brazil's talking about putting up tariffs as
well on Chinese vehicles.
Speaker 3: So is Mexico.
Speaker 4: But how do you think this is going to play out in the rest of the world as you're trying to encourage this move to electrification.
Speaker 3: And the like.
Speaker 4: Are the Chinese just going to take it over? Or
how do you see it going.
Speaker 8: The one hundred million dollar question.
Speaker 7: I think, yeah, we're seeing I think it's it's just a it's a difficult time. I think it's very complex,
certainly in terms of tariffs and trade and all of those implications. I'm interested in this topic also because of
really the climate broader background. Right, So it's a little
bit of a trade off because you either want you want to promote electric vehicle adoption because it's better for the climate, because of all of the reasons that we have.
Speaker 8: And yet it's not just that in.
Speaker 7: A vacuum, right there are a lot of other economic, trade related, geopolitics related politics related.
Speaker 8: Issues as well.
Speaker 7: So I think in terms of the tariffs, we have still to see how they are going to play out in Mexico. Certainly, this is top of mind conversation. I
was there just recently a couple of weeks ago, and this was one of the key conversations when we talk about the industry, how that will play out in terms of Mexico, also trying to put.
Speaker 8: Some barriers there.
Speaker 7: I worry about, you know, just in general, tariffs being being perhaps used or seen as something that Okay, it's going to be for a very long time. Prevent that,
But what happens with our own industry, we still have to develop that, innovate, develop better products. Going back to affordability,
et cetera, because the reason why they're being so successful is because their products are very good and very affordable.
So I am not a trade expert or tariffs. That's
not my area, right, so I understand the geopolitics around it, but I am focused on, Okay, how can you be more competitive and how can we not give up on that opportunity because the world is really big, and we're seeing specifically Chinese players going into so many markets and dominating and selling because people want these products. So you know,
I don't have an answer, but just like just thinking about all of those interconnected issues, I think it's just really you know necessary.
Speaker 2: Has there been a transition in another in history that you think may be analogous to what's going on in automotive right now?
Speaker 7: Well, I think in terms of the you know, I look at the transition to electric mobility also, as I mentioned, as part of the broader energy transition, and we're seeing a lot of that happen across different you know, aspects or subsectors of energy per se, from fossil fuels to renewables for example.
Speaker 8: And there was something else I was just reading about it.
Speaker 7: I was like, oh, that sounds precisely how but I'm right now I'm trying to.
Speaker 6: You know what.
Speaker 4: Allow example, I talked a lot about the solar panels and so you know, invented in the US essentially, and China dominates in that, you know, essentially driven all production out of Europe. And there's a few holding on by
their fingernails in the US, but China's taken that over and a lot of people use that as the roadmap of what could happen with electric cars.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I think it's you know, it's justified like having all of those questions. I think for me in
some of the conversations that would have in with partners and with people who are really you know, in industry or or in policy really trying to figure this out.
Speaker 8: Is okay, what this is a this is a this is a fact.
Speaker 7: How do we move from talking about all of the things and how they got there to constructively what are we going to do and actually take action right so that to kind of close that gap or innovate in other ways in other segments or think about like what are other markets, what are O their products? I mean,
again I'm not in a in an automotive company, but that is a little bit the question just when we when we think about the possibilities you know, around the world.
Speaker 4: Well, Diana, I'm glad somebody's thinking about all this, and I'm glad you're the one that's, uh that leading the charge on it. But we've come to the bottom of
the hour here, So I want to thank you for your time on the show.
Speaker 6: It's been great.
Speaker 8: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and coming up in just a few seconds literally we're gonna be talking about attacking this problem of the auto industry not getting enough young people interested in working in it.
Speaker 3: We'll be back in just a second.
Speaker 10: Knowing that a little rain won't slow down your day.
That's what really matters. Bridge, don't Toronto Qui attract tires,
confident control in wet conditions.
Speaker 3: It dotter, it doesn't matter. Yeah, so you have to
give me a second.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, We'll just let the audience know we're swapping people out. We're doing this live on the fly,
and we'll get it done in second.
Speaker 6: Here.
Speaker 4: So we've got Chrys Lunch and Tanya Barbara uh from a high school in Detroit called Detroit Christo Ray. We're
gonna go get into this because it's fascinating story. But Chris,
maybe you ought to start off what is Detroit Cristal Ray and what makes it different from other high schools?
Speaker 9: Well, thanks thanks for having us John. Detroit Crystal Ray
is an incredible high school. It's a small Catholic high
school in the city of Detroit that focuses on college and college success in getting our students to and through college.
Speaker 2: I e.
Speaker 9: High school students, high school students, absolutely high school students, and we make sure that we are affordable and accessible to everybody. We really actually focus, as we're part of
a forty school nationwide network, focusing on how to make sure that people that might not always have access to the best college college prep education have access to it.
Speaker 6: And one of the unique ways that that happens is to our corporate work study program.
Speaker 9: So our students are high school students like Tanya here, they go off one time a week at least it turns out to be five times a month to go all across Metro Detroit working at companies large and small, gaining wonderful experiences, helping doing real work in these companies.
Speaker 3: And so they're working and going to school.
Speaker 9: Working and going to school at the same time, and that helps offset the cost of their education. And at
the same time, they're learning incredible skills, they're developing networks and knowledge and all.
Speaker 6: Kinds of insights about how to work.
Speaker 9: And they're also visioning themselves working in places that they might not evolve previously envision themselves working. So it's truly
an impactful program that I was on the other side.
I was a job partner myself way back when, and I fell in love with this program and I thought to myself, Wow, this really can impact the trajectory of these young people and talent and.
Speaker 6: Generations to come. So it's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2: Well, Detroit's not just automotive, but it is largely automotive.
So to what extent do your students become involved with suppliers.
Speaker 5: In OEM companies?
Speaker 9: Great question, Gary, I was on the automotive supplier side of things, and I was a job partner. But we
try to diversify because like many students that are you know, I don't know about you both, but when I was Tanya's.
Speaker 6: Age, I had no idea what I wanted to do.
Speaker 9: And so one of the things that we do is we offer and get them exposure to different things, different areas of interest where they may or may not be interested in and sometimes it's a process of elimination. So
just having those experiences, getting exposed to things that you might not even know exist, is that opportunity to say, yeah, I really am passionate about this. I was sharing earlier
about one of our students who she was convinced she wanted to go into healthcare. She was very upset when
she got assigned to General Motors. Even though we have
students that at hospitals and everything like that. She was
a transfer student, got assigned to General Motors in engineering, and she ended up finding that she had a real passion for it. She never knew that that kind of
career existed, and now she's working in that field after getting her bachelor's and her master's degree.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 4: So I got to tell you, I did had no idea what I was going to do when I got out of high school. I had no idea what I
was going to do when I graduated from college.
Speaker 5: So that's okay, still working on it, That's that's true.
Speaker 4: True's here from Tanya. So you're a senior at Detroit
Crystal Ray, but you're working with General Motors right now?
Speaker 3: Is that right?
Speaker 4: And so tell us a little bit about your work experience.
I mean, how many days do you go to school every week? How much time do you spend on the job?
Speaker 3: Tell us.
Speaker 11: So, I'm a senior, So we typically work on Mondays and the occasional Friday, which is what mister Lynch was talking about. But what I do at GM, I work
in the Moford Proving Grounds where I work with all kinds of vehicles. This can be like old vehicles, competitive
vehicles or like new vehicles that are like barely in the market, and I just do like a lot of testing with the Squeak and Rattle area, and we just basically test these vehicles just to see like how satisfactory are they to customers and just how ways we can improve them and compare them to other competitive vehicles in the area.
Speaker 2: So, Tanya, are you working with the engineers who have jobs at Milford.
Speaker 11: Yes, that's actually like something that's really unique like about Crystal Ray is getting like being a high school student and getting to work with these industry people who were like already in there, and really often, like especially when I first came into GM, people would look at me and go like, oh, like, are you a college student?
Like what school are you going to? And I would
be like, no, I'm a high school senior. And they
would be like really surprised. And I would tell them,
you know, all about the program, and they would be like, oh my god, Like I wish I had this in high school.
Speaker 4: I wish I had that in high school. That's awesome
that you're doing. So were you interested in the auto
industry at all?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 11: Actually, I kind of didn't know what to do so I was recommended by a friend and you know, like, oh, like you should come work and like in the engineer and feel like like I feel like you like it.
And I was like, okay, I'll give it a try, and you liked it.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's so when you graduate, you're going to go to college, would you go to the auto industry after that?
Speaker 11: Yeah, I'll really consider it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I okay, when you go in to a
building at Milford there's many buildings out there now, and you were working with people who are working there five days a week, I mean, are you involved in projects that they're working on or do they say, oh, Tanya is we'll put her over here to do some special stuff.
Speaker 8: I get.
Speaker 11: It's like a little bit of both. Especially when I
first came into like the workplace, I had to get you know, training done and just like familiarize myself with like the tools that I were working with and especially the people. But now that I have like two years now, GM,
I really get to be like part of like the projects that they're working. I'm an involved member. Like I
speak at the table, I'm not just like they're at the back just listening. Like I speak, I do the
work and I'm there like I wouldn't consider myself an intern, I would consider myself like one of their co workers.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's fantastic. So back to Crystal Ray a little bit.
You said, a small Catholic school, how many students? What's
your graduation rate? What's your college placement rate?
Speaker 2: Great?
Speaker 6: Great questions.
Speaker 9: We have two hundred and seventy students right now, and we are very proud that since our first graduating class in twenty twelve, we've had thirteen years in a row of one hundred percent college acceptance, which sounds wonderful.
Speaker 3: What's the graduation rate?
Speaker 9: First, the graduate Well, we have all of the students that get through and that meet all the requirements graduate.
We try to make sure that everyone that's meeting all the criteria there.
Speaker 3: So it's so, what are you saying one hundred percent of the students graduate?
Speaker 6: Especially one hundred percent.
Speaker 9: I could say that maybe there's once once or twice where there's some student that right before they COVID hit, for example, a lot of students stopped showing up.
Speaker 6: That was a really difficult time.
Speaker 4: But otherwise you graduate just about everybody and you place one hundred percent of them in college.
Speaker 6: One hundred percent are accepted to college.
Speaker 9: We want to make sure that we not only get them to college, but through college. So this is one
of the focus areas because that's really at the heart of our mission. So we'd like to consider ourselves an
eight plus year program, not just a four year high school.
So we have a lot of college success a whole college counseling team, and an alumni success team to make sure that our students not only making sure that their high school is accessible to them, but that they know that college is accessible to them. And our students are
graduating or college at two plus times the rate of their peers across the nation, so we know the program works.
Speaker 6: We want that to increase to.
Speaker 9: Even more because we really believe, as part of the mission that this edgetion and the impact that that education can have can have transformational impacts for generations to come.
So we really are focusing on getting our students not just through college, but through college.
Speaker 4: So, Tanya, obviously you're sponsored by General Motors, right, so who else is helping you guys out in the automotive field.
Speaker 9: In the automotive field, we've got Stilantis Ford has been a partner in the past. We'd love to get them
back in hell for Hellover Ford. When we hear about
all of the talent attraction and retention that the industry is looking for, we are part of that solution. Suppliers
to suppliers absolutely. I came from a supplier. We had
student workers that were working in our finance organization and collecting on receivables that otherwise we might be writing off just because we didn't have enough workforce to be able to get to the smaller amount.
Speaker 6: So it actually is a win win situation. Our students
are doing real work.
Speaker 9: When I first came in and I asked one of the students where you're going off to work, he said General Motors And I wasn't sure if it might have been the Tech center because we have students all around.
And I said what are you working on and he said, I'm working on data management. I said what do you
use and he said, well, it's like Excel on steroids.
I said, really, what are you using power Bi? And
I said, seriously, I just came out of the industry and I was using Powerbi. So they are doing real work,
they're making real contributions. Like Tanya said at first they
come and they learned the tools, but then they come back and they're able to just jump right in our job partners that do it the right way.
Speaker 6: This is a talent pipeline for them.
Speaker 9: It is winning over their hearts and minds at a much younger age, not when they're a junior and senior in college. And our students, many of our students, they
don't want to go off to the East Coast or the West coast. They just they want to stay here
and they want to have a future. And that's what
we're all about, making sure that these wonderful students that are full of potential get that opportunity, that opportunity for the right future, and we want it to be here.
Speaker 4: And Tanya, before the show started, you told me you did.
I don't know what you call it.
Speaker 3: You spend time.
Speaker 4: At MIT this past summer. So tell us a little
bit about your experience at Crystal Grade, because it's not just you.
Speaker 3: Know, doing these these job.
Speaker 4: Work programs like you're doing at General Motors. There's more
involved too. Tell us about MIT and some of the
other things that you've done.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so every single summer I like to like open myself up to like more education and then just you know, stop at school. And so I've done a couple of
programs for the University of Michigan and Arbor and MIT, and I spent like, you know, a couple of weeks at each university just learning more about the engineering field.
A couple of years ago, University of Michigan and Arbor, I did an electric engineering.
Speaker 8: Program just to like you know, like just spread.
Speaker 11: And this summer at MIT, I did a little bit more about mechanical design and just learning just you know, like the basics of design, digital manufacturing, design, and three printing, and I just I really enjoyed it. I got to
learn a lot of new things that I know that I could apply to my work.
Speaker 2: So you're a sophomore and you were studying at at University of Michigan, and then you're between your junior and senior year you're studying at MI T what were.
Speaker 5: You doing this?
Speaker 4: Listening to rock and roll is a politician ary, right, just lie.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's incredibly impressive what you're doing. I mean,
and you know, we just the first half of the show, we heard about you know, people that they need innovative people and people are thinking differently. They you know, people
who are engaged, people are working hard, and I mean I think they were.
Speaker 5: Talking about you.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just there.
Speaker 9: It's just just amazing time you can tell about your involvement.
Speaker 6: With the robotics.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 11: So in the Trucky Story of high School, we have a FC robotics team from the first organization. We're called
the Kinematic Wolves TEA number fifty five seventy seven and in their team captain. In the past, I was mechanically
and I kind of do a little bit overview of the design and digital manufacturing and the three printing process of the robot and being part of the robotics scene is like an amazing opportunity just like for me, but like I know other people in general. You get to
learn like a lot of new things. And because I
was part of the robotics scene, and because I was part of the Corporate Work City program, and then we want to decide that like I want to study engineering and that's what I want to do. And it's just
like an amazing opportunity. Like not only are you like
working with like other people in your school, like how to be future engineers and future leaders and them, but you can also showcase to the community to inspire them to do the same thing.
Speaker 4: How did you find out about Crystal Ray? Why did
you want to go to Krystal Ray?
Speaker 11: It wasn't I didn't discover it. My parents discovered it.
But something that they told me since the beginning is that what attracted them to them was the Corporate Work City program. Being a high school student and like getting
real life work experience is something that is very valuable to them, especially because near of them graduated high school.
They know they wanted the best for me.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic that this is such a great story.
Speaker 11: You know.
Speaker 4: So as I kicked off this whole conversation saying, the automakers or the auto industry is complaining, we can't get enough young people interested in it. You know, it looks
like you put together a whale of a program to address this need well.
Speaker 9: And we're a partnership because, for example, General Motors in partnership with some of their suppliers, they had a need for They saw that they didn't have enough talent in additive manufacturing, and so they wanted to start training on some of that earlier. And we have a number of
three d printers that Tanya was mentioning that with collaboration between General Motors and their partners, that the school has because the General Motors said, we need talent that has familiarity with these tools, and now our high school students are getting that familiarity right away in preparation for their future careers.
Speaker 2: So, you know, it seemed to me that if I were in the additive department at General Motors and I was looking for placing equipment or finding people to do this, I might think, i't's go to university and just do it there. But I mean, how did you get it
at a high school?
Speaker 6: At a high school?
Speaker 9: Again, the companies that partner with us that do it well.
General Motors is one of those examples. Ideal Group is
another one.
Speaker 6: They look at.
Speaker 9: This as a long game. They're not in it for
just oh, a nice good feeling for the moment. They
are looking at it as a talent pipeline. They're developing
and grooming and maintaining the relationships with the student interns that they have, and they're giving them real work.
Speaker 6: It's not just oh, file something over here, do something.
We'll give me a cup of coff we'll get me a cup of coffee.
Speaker 9: It is real work because when when given that opportunity, our student step up, they're just they're they're doing this and they stay connected through college and then their first career is that makes it's a no brainer. When they've
spent you know, six eight years already in that environment.
Speaker 6: They're like, I feel like family there. They treat me well,
you know, they make me feel like I'm part of the team. Exactly what you said, Tanya.
Speaker 9: I mean, those are great selling points to have as people are growing in their education and when they're looking for.
Speaker 6: Their first careers.
Speaker 4: And Chris, I think an important point and I'd like you to comment on this is this group of forty schools across the US, largely in lower income areas. So
I mean, the talent is there.
Speaker 9: The talent is there, the potential is there, the need to grow this talent is there, and the desire for our students and other students to want to stay and have a future where their families are, where their ties are, that's all there. We just need to make sure that
we give them that opportunity. And I know it exists
here in southeastern Michigan.
Speaker 6: It exists for sure. There's a lot of need. We're
part of that solution, and Tonya is an example of that.
Speaker 3: Well, I want to thank you both for coming on the show.
Speaker 4: Is it's very inspiring. Let me tell you that I
love hearing this story. I think it's a great one.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much for having us.
Speaker 3: Okay, but we're going to.
Speaker 4: Have step off the set and other news to get into.
Speaker 6: Thanks again, thank you.
Speaker 3: This is a casual show.
Speaker 6: We do think absolutely you.
Speaker 4: Know, we're not gonna warn.
Speaker 2: So let's start with not a serious ones. We've had
much serious conversation here. So so our friend Mark Royce
took out a twenty twenty five Corvette z R one and took it to two hundred and thirty.
Speaker 5: Three miles per hour. Talk about that.
Speaker 4: So number one, here's a little inside story. Don Sherman
gave me this. That one was actually a month ago.
You know, they made it look like Boom, which had just happened, and so they kept a lid on this for a month, which is astonishing because there was a pretty big group of engineers that went over to Germany, which is where they set that record.
Speaker 3: But kudos to Mark.
Speaker 4: I mean he I saw he had posted something on LinkedIn and one of the comments was fat this automotive executive effort and absolutely true.
Speaker 2: So you know, they're making the point that this is the fastest.
Speaker 5: Current production car under a million.
Speaker 2: Dollars, right, So so okay, So here's here's a you know, a Corvette with one thousand and sixty four horse power and eight hundred and twenty eight pound feet of torque.
It's it's a beast.
Speaker 6: It's a beast.
Speaker 4: And you know, people have got to appreciate how difficult it is to get a car to go over two hundred miles an hour. And I mean the aerodynamic drag
is massive, and you want to stay right on the pavement, not go flying off either. So I mean, there's a
great story in what it took to get it up to that speed. A thousand horse power plus helps a lot, right,
But you know, the steering has got to be right, the chassis got to be right, the suspension, the tires, the tires especially, So it's it's a great engineering story.
So if you were on the board of General Motors, would you allow your president to go on a track at that speed?
Speaker 3: Well, you're asking the wrong guy.
Speaker 4: The answer in my book is absolutely yes, so, but you know, others on the board might be scratching their heads and wait a minute, are we putting our CEO and life and danger or president's life and danger. But
you know, Jim Farley races, Carlos Tavares races, I especially like I race. So any exec that races, in my book,
is a good executive.
Speaker 2: But there's a fiduciary responsibility that goes along with all of them.
Speaker 4: No, there is, and in the past they were not allowed to do that. In fact, I know of at
least one exec who raced under a pseudonym so that his company could not track the fact that he was racing.
So it's been going on, you know, since the very beginning of the industry. But no, you're right, in many
cases in an executive's contract are prohibited from racing, obviously those that got ripped out of the current contracts.
Speaker 2: So moving over to Europe, so that the Paris show has been going on, and there's been some consternation about the Chinese manufacturers putting on a good show and the traditional Europeans being overshadowed by this, and the concern that some executives in Europe now are expressing regarding the mandates
related to the elimination of ice vehicles in a few years from now, and Oliver Zippsa from BMW basically you claimed that quote the European Union plans are no longer realistic and that subsidies for electric vehicles are unsustainable. Do
you think this is going to make a difference level observations?
Speaker 4: Number one of the Chinese absolutely saved the Paris Auto Show.
I mean, as you know, all the international shows outside of China have pretty much collapsed. Frankfurt's gone, Geneva's gone.
Paris was nothing until all these Chinese manufacturers say we're going to exhibit there, and then all the European manufacturers piled in and there's a lot of good news coming out of the Paris Show. But I think Zipsa's got
a great point. The goal has got to be CO
two reduction, not a mandate for a specific technology, and so as long as you're reducing CO two emissions, and the faster you can do it, the better, look e The adoption is not happening quickly enough. And if you
can get there faster with plug in hybrid's extended range evs just regular strong hybrids, what are we waiting for.
And I think we're going to run into that reality in this country too. You know, California has announced that
it's going to ban icy engines for most vehicles in twenty thirty five. There's a dozen or so other states
that have adopted the California ZEV mandate. But you know,
I want to say next year, twenty percent of all vehicles in the carb ZEV states have got to be electric.
California is already there. California is putting the money in
the infrastructures there. The people are buying in the other.
Speaker 3: States not even close.
Speaker 6: So pick New.
Speaker 4: York state, very highly populated state. Next year they have
to have twenty percent EV sold in the state. I
think they're at five or six percent today. What's going
to happen and what's going to happen when all of a sudden dealers are told no, you can't sell those vehicles or automakers are told that now you've got these massive fines to pay. And the states I'll pick on
New York, but the rest of them go along with it.
They're not putting in the infrastructure fast enough to support enough evs to be sold at that level. So I
think we've got a day of reckoning coming with the carb.
Speaker 3: ZEV mandate. And who knows if Trump gets elected in
next month.
Speaker 4: You know, he's promised to eliminate the California Air Resources Board waiver from the EPA to even have its own ZEV mandate, So who knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: Right, So it sounds like we're suggesting is that there may be some.
Speaker 5: Redoing of these mandates.
Speaker 2: And regulations in Europe as well as perhaps here.
Speaker 3: I think the reality is the right.
Speaker 4: Look the European auto industry next year, at the current rate of CO two reduction that they're supposed to achieve, which they're not achieving, is facing sixteen billion euros in fines.
That's just next year. What about the year after that
and the year after that. It's going to bankrupt the industry.
Speaker 3: So there's there's.
Speaker 4: Going to be a come to Jesus meeting over these regulations.
Speaker 2: But you think that there would be hybrids and plug in hybrids and e revs perhaps in greater abundance that correct.
Speaker 4: So look at where the EPA proposed standards in the United States were at the beginning of this year for twenty thirty two. I think they stipulated that something like
sixty seven percent of all vehicles sold in twenty thirty two in the US had to be electric. Everybody went,
that's never going to happen.
Speaker 3: So they rejiggered it so that.
Speaker 4: PEVs can account for about one third, BEVs can account for about one third, and then a mix of strong hybrid and ice for the other third. And I think
that's much more reasonable. I actually think that's probably achievable.
Others say, no, thirty five percent BEV by twenty thirty two, forget about it. I happen to believe it is achievable.
But that's the kind of change I think we're going to see happen in Europe. So if we look at
the US market, Okay, to what extent do you think that some of this rulemaking was predicated on the giddiness that was expressed by some legacy automakers as they were looking at the wild success that Elon Musk was having with evs. That played along with it. But look, the
REGs came first, the push for CO two reduction came first, and there's no question total life cycle analysis BEVs are cleaner by far, not even close over pure ice, but it's expensive, and China dominates the supply chain, and there's you know, national security issues along with that, and there's this slower than expected adoption rate. So yeah, I think
there was a giddiness three four years ago and they all declared that.
Speaker 3: They could achieve it.
Speaker 4: And now you know, they've all been had a cold bucket of water thrown in their face and they realized, wait a minute, maybe the regulations were way out.
Speaker 3: In front of what the market will accept.
Speaker 2: So last Thursday, after the show is over, we robot was held at the Warner Brothers studio A lot heh.
Speaker 5: I So what did you make of that?
Speaker 3: John so Tesla amazing. I Mean.
Speaker 4: My two observations are this, let me just flat out and say that cybervan blew me away. I think that's
the most exciting product I've seen come out from any car company in a long long time. Forget the cyber truck,
the cyber van. That's the future. And you know, Elon
I think had a great quote he said the future should look like the future, and that looks like the future.
I think, uh, we could see various sizes of that sort of thing, maybe a four passenger one. They showed
something I think they said could carry twenty people, the cyber cab. I was not impressed with it all. In fact,
I don't even think that's the real story. I think
the cyber Cab is actually the model too. And so
you know, they're calling it the Cybercab, and you're going to have you know, full autonomous driving capabilities with it.
But when I look at the car, it's like, that's the that's the twenty five thousand dollars, you know, inexpensive electric car that they're talking about. I don't know if
it's going to have those semi gold wing doors. That's
a little wonky, especially in tight city spaces where I think that car will be popular. But you know, normal
doors opening on that twenty five thousand dollars. I think
that's the bottle too. They call it the cyber Cab,
and everybody's focusing on that. I think when when it
actually goes into production, you'll be able to buy it with a steering wheel, to say, hearing wheel and pedals will be in there.
Speaker 2: But will it be capable of being built without steering wheel and pedals?
Speaker 5: Both yes and.
Speaker 2: Now he seemed rather vague On when this was.
Speaker 5: Going to be coming.
Speaker 3: That's Elon.
Speaker 2: You know, it's well, okay, but but how long does Elon have before you know, the bloom is off the proverbial rows, well.
Speaker 3: The bloom is off.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, the investment community looked at that and went me and wiped sixty billion dollars of value out of the stocks market capitalization. So Wall Street has
already shrugged on this because you know, Elon has been promising robotaxis for years now and it hasn't happened, and the stock is valued at that actually happening. So until
it does happen, I think you're going to see the stock trending downwards. And you know, to what extent do
you see business for having a large van? I mean,
nobody seems to be interested in these things anymore, you know.
And then post COVID, I mean that was that was another you know concern, right, yeah, but I even Elon was was always against you know, buses and mass transit.
Speaker 3: Right right, right.
Speaker 4: You know, Look, I think we're over the COVID thing, you know, you know, afraid to go out, and in the early days of COVID, nobody knew what was going on.
People were dropping like flies dead. You know, we had
refrigerator trucks outside of morgues because the morgs were overflowing with bodies. You know, I think we've got a handle
on it now, and I don't think people will be afraid to get in a vent even if there is another COVID outbreak. But but that van. I took one
look at that and I was like, this is sensational.
Sensational to me, and some people have criticized it. My
description of the of the van is a nineteen thirties ear Art Deco streamlined locomotive. But I happened to love
that look. And boy, if if this is what you
know Franz von Holtz Alzen had a design at Tesla can do.
Speaker 6: Rip?
Speaker 3: You know, you know we've been complaining.
Speaker 4: I've been complaining the Model three, the Acts, the y getting a little old in the tooth. From a styling standpoint,
Let Frans do his thing, make.
Speaker 3: The future look like the future.
Speaker 2: And but the question is how do they deal with the near future in terms.
Speaker 3: Of their business while they're struggling.
Speaker 2: Right And I mean, and you know you're seeing you know, you know, out of Paris, the news of Chinese companies with with all manner of vehicles, from the wildly expensive to the very economical.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: Well, you know the Chinese is that we've been talking about, you know for many of these shows.
Speaker 3: It's boy, that's uh, it's a monster man.
Speaker 4: But you know, look at what happened last month. BMW
outsold Tesla in Europe with evs. I mean, Elon's got
to wake up, he's got to refresh his line. He's
got a from a styling standpoint, under the skin blea to ads, right, but from a styling standpoint, the cars haven't changed much at all, and that there's been a mild face lift on the three ho hum. I mean
it does look better, but that's not what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: People have got to look at that.
Speaker 4: Car from one hundred yards away and go, wow, that must be the new one today.
Speaker 3: You can't do that.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And those BMW EV sales, I mean they were they were very impressive, and that surprises me, you know, in context with Zips's comment about well, well.
Speaker 4: Look, their EV sales are impressive, but all these legacy automakers have invested for them to be way higher than they are.
Speaker 3: And so until they.
Speaker 4: Hit those production rates, they're going to lose a lot of money. I'm sure BMW is losing money on its
on its evs on a fully accounted basis, so I can see why ZIPSA is worried.
Speaker 2: And finally, the Optimist robot did you, uh, what was your take on that?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, now the stories come out that those Optimist robots were actually being operated remotely, so there's a bit of smoke and mirrors switching bait kind of thing.
And I guess they posted some video of the Optimist today.
Speaker 3: And said nobody's running it, it's.
Speaker 4: Doing it on its own. But you know, Elon's got
to be careful in this sort of thing. He can
risk losing a lot of credibility. You know, they should
only do things that are patently true, patently obvious. And
so the Optimist thing was, like I said, a little bit of P. T.
Speaker 3: Barnum, you know.
Speaker 2: So see, I thought it was very interesting this week that Boston Dynamics and Toyota are getting together in Boston Dynamics, which curiously enough is owned by Hyundai exactly is you know, and that's the one with the spot the robot dog and all these these very creepy looking things that are being used now.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: When I saw that headline of Toyota and Boston Dynamics, I thought, does Korea know?
Speaker 3: You know, does Hondi Korea know about this? I mean,
what was their reaction?
Speaker 4: So uh, but you know, very interesting, Uh, Toyota seems to be reaching out. And you know before it was
all Toyota, we do everything in the house. We don't
look to anybody for anything. You know, we can do
it and we got the money.
Speaker 3: So very interesting that it's starting to reach out to others.
Speaker 4: I think this may be a signal that Toyota is ramping up its competitiveness.
Speaker 2: Well, what I think is even perhaps more interesting, is is that if you look at from the Hundai standpoint, I mean, you know, Hyundai, you know, making the memorandum of understanding with General Motors, Hyundai working with Weaimo, right now Hyundai working with Toyota.
Speaker 5: I mean this it seems to be like coming.
Speaker 3: Oh a great point. I mean it's uh.
Speaker 4: I think the industry is realized it has to move way faster and to try and invent everything in the house.
You can do it, but it's going to take a lot of money. In a lot of time, and if
somebody else out there has already.
Speaker 3: Done it, run to them.
Speaker 4: Don't waste time trying to do it in house unless you see that there is some hyper competitive advantage to doing it in house. Swallow your pride, go buy what's
out on the market.
Speaker 6: See, but that's the that's the tough part.
Speaker 2: For any follow for any of us doing anything.
Speaker 6: That is the tough part. That's exactly right.
Speaker 3: So well with that, should we just swallow our pride?
Speaker 6: And I think we should?
Speaker 3: Okay, good stuff, Thank you all for heaven tuned in.
Speaker 1: I'll online after hours. Is brought to you by bridge
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