AAH #746 - Good Car Brands, Bad Brands and Everything In Between

Speaker 1: This is out of line after Hours, unscripted, uncensored, unapproved.

Hey everybody, thanks for joining us on Autoline after Hours.

We've got a different show today. Gary has come up

with an idea.

Speaker 2: Here you explain people. People are now leaving the show.

Rols it's going to be like three, like eight people watching.

Speaker 1: No, it's a good idea.

Speaker 2: No, okay, So those of you who've watched the show for the last few weeks, we've been talking almost purely about tariffs, and so I figure that what we should do here we are at midpoint of the year, let's just sort of do a look at what's going on in terms of major automotive brands.

Speaker 1: And we brought into experts.

Speaker 2: We brought into absolute experts.

Speaker 1: Yes, because we don't trust our own opinions.

Speaker 2: I certainly don't trust your John.

Speaker 1: Bly Stephanie Brinley.

Speaker 2: I was going to say that I've seen you once or twice, Stephanie. I know, so thank you for rejoining us.

We've we've had you on several times.

Speaker 3: And it's okay with me for we don't talk that much about tariffs.

Speaker 2: Okay, good friend. Yeah, and Gospic of media.

Speaker 4: Posts, well, you know, opinions are like, I'm not going to finish my sentence here, but I have one and I have an opinion.

Speaker 3: So glad to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 1: Cool.

Speaker 2: So I'll start this off alphabetically.

Speaker 1: Well, explain what you have come up with the ideas we should just run through the list of the major brands in the US market and thumbs up or thumbs down or sideways, or what we think about what they're doing and how well we think they're doing it and what their outlook is. And of course tariffs will have

implications on some of them more than on others of them. Mega.

Speaker 2: So so okay.

Speaker 5: So.

Speaker 2: Start with accurate since it's at the a's right and I can spell stuff. So, you know, it seems to

me that here's a brand that is now glomming onto SUVs as being it's salvation that I mean, it's just you know, it's still got the Integra not doing so great.

But you know, you think about the brand now it's you know MDX rd X and now ad X right yep, So what do you think, Stephanie, is this is this going to be the salvation for that brand?

Speaker 5: I think that people aren't buying sedans anymore, and it makes it very sad, and I think that's problem. Well really,

I keep expecting to find a bottom for sedans and I kind of look and them.

Speaker 3: Like, Nope, not here yet, not here yet.

Speaker 5: So they have to they have to do SGVs and the ad X, which we were just talking about earlier, you know, is a good little entry it's above kind of sharing a platform with HRV. They civic area, and

it's an enter point. So they do need something that's

in that entry point price point, because we all do, so I think ADX is a good ad I add for them.

Speaker 2: So it's Tanya okay. From a marketing perspective, I mean,

Accura is positioning itself as being a performance yes, types of brain.

Speaker 4: I disagree with you about sedans, but we'll come back to that because we're to talk about.

Speaker 3: Christ Learn a few minutes.

Speaker 4: I yeah, Accura is going after a younger male, a lot of mail audience, and very sporty. They're using a

lot of video games, sort of energy graphics, and so I mean you make more money with with with SUVs versus sedans.

Speaker 2: I mean, is is the performance thing working for them?

Speaker 4: I haven't driven in accurate lately. You have one, you

have one, what are.

Speaker 2: Use in terms of messaging.

Speaker 4: Oh, messaging, Yeah, I think it is. People think they're

sporty until you get in and try to connect your phone and then you're unhappy.

Speaker 1: So I don't know, John, You've been driving one and I could not connect my phone. I couldn't. You know

how many cars do we trust driving year sixty seven something like that, and you know some of them are brilliant when it comes to connectivity. I couldn't get knack

my phone on the accurate ads, so minor complaint. Accura

has never really achieved I think what Honda wanted it to.

You know, originally it wanted it to be the lexus of the Honda brand. It does, okay, you know, it's

it's a bit more profit for Honda, but they've never really I'm not saying it's unsuccessful. It never met the

success I think Conda wanted for it.

Speaker 2: Do you, okay, do you think that if one company were to say we've got to really tighten down the hatches, that it could continue or it could disappear.

Speaker 3: It makes money.

Speaker 1: It makes makes money, right, that's it.

Speaker 3: Makes money, yep.

Speaker 5: And I mean the performance aspects. I think it's a

it's more image, you know, because it needs a little bit more product to back it up and interesting. The

integral doesn't sell as well, but it is one of the more sporty ones that they have out there right now.

And they've got some election coming. I've got one and

they've got more coming, so there's some opportunity still there.

And no, I don't think that Acura quite met the volume level that Honda envisioned when they first started, but they keep making money with it, and they keep bringing new people in and it's not the same people that are coming into Honda. They're not always just going Honda

to Accura, so you know, it's it's not the same volume.

Speaker 3: But I think it's been pretty good for them all right, Right.

Speaker 2: Enough about that company, Alpha Romele. Is it a lot

of guy long to live or I mean it'll live in Italy, but will it live here?

Speaker 5: It all depends on products, right, And we're looking at a STILLANIS and FCA and ft E merchant into Islanta's right.

The last year and a half has still been pretty tough and they have not pulled out all the steps on product. They rethought what they were going to do

with Alpha, rethought what they're going to do a little bit with Massarati, and it needs product. If it doesn't

get more and better product, then I think it's it's a really hard push to keep it here.

Speaker 1: Tony, what do you think.

Speaker 4: They barely market that brand at all. So I don't

know if that means anything or not, but it's hard to even differentiate them from their competitors at this point.

And that's another bad infotainment system. By the way, just

if we're going to talk about connectivity and infotainment, it's they're sporty and wonderful to drive, but they've got some flaws.

Speaker 3: Yep, they look good, they're good to drive.

Speaker 1: But so I mean, look what you just said there.

They look good, they're fun to drive, and they don't sell.

I mean, I don't think new product is going to change the brand, at least in the US market. I

doubt it makes any money, and Stilantis is going to come to stare at some really hard decisions, especially with the tariffs. Sorry I said it, but yeah, I mean,

do you keep putting money into a brand that they've tried to revive for a decade and it's been a financial failure.

Speaker 5: Have they tried I mean, think about what the level of effort that has gone into out for May in the last five years. Well, it's really not been a lot,

at least in the United States, Wes. You know, it's

selvia a Julia and we finally got to and it's not marketed very heavily. We do have tariff implications with that,

you do have other things happening there. It is more

popular in other markets, so somewhat you know, somewhat more popular in other markets. So I don't I don't know

that they've they've really given Alpha a ton of attention, So I don't know, have they really tried.

Speaker 2: I think they've tried, and they'll stop trying.

Speaker 1: Yep. I think you're right, all right, Audi.

Speaker 2: So it seems to me that Audi was once.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's well put up against Mercedes and BMW.

Speaker 2: Right, and it's just my sense of it is is that it's almost disappeared from the scene.

Speaker 3: It feels like it.

Speaker 5: But I haven't driven one in a while, and you know, I think that it's almost got too confusing. Right, You've

got all your etrons on top of your regular ones and and I don't even know what they are anymore. Really,

I mean I can list them off. You've got Q

for you, you know, but but what are they and what do they really mean? And what are they trying

to do? And they're they're you know, they're not unattractive,

but they're they're don't stand out in a design way and as they used to, not like the TT, not like the TT.

Speaker 3: I have one still ttut.

Speaker 2: So so tell you, I mean, is there is there a brand point of view that you can say, Okay, this is an Audi versus this is something else, not like.

Speaker 4: Their sister brand, Volkswagen. I mean, if you I think

ABOUTI and I think of Volkswagen, and it's like there's just no comparison. I know, V's way down the road,

so we'll get there, but hopefully the way way down there.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. We always used to rave about how good Audi's

interiors are. And it's not that they're worse. It's just

that everybody else come up and caught them and in some cases surpassed them. So and technologically they're they're there,

but there's nothing unique about them. And you know, interestingly,

in China they're backing away from the three rings. They're

going rings, so the four rings. Excuse me, right, they're

just going.

Speaker 2: For a letter, so they've even lost here.

Speaker 1: Okay, what else?

Speaker 3: All right?

Speaker 2: So then well what I think is perhaps the most clever German company of all BMW. I mean, these guys,

you know, the ultimate driving machine continues to be the ultimate driving machine. And you know, whether this machine has

an internal combustion engine or it has an electric machine, these guys are just nailing it.

Speaker 5: Or the plug in hybrid that the BMW i X that was just completely perplexing, super powerful and then like a little bit of a hybrid, now what do you want to be?

Speaker 3: It was very fun to drive.

Speaker 5: Yeah, they've just stayed down and done their work and keep coming out with interesting products.

Speaker 3: You know.

Speaker 2: And when they came out with the ugly kidney grill front ends that were you know, those ginormous things that everybody was outraged about. You know, I mean they overcame.

Speaker 5: That sort of like people will still a little bit yeah, like it's really yeah, if we could fix that nose, be a little bit better, but they are willing to overlook it.

Speaker 4: Their technology is just so supreme I just think about, you know, and everybody loves it. But the you know,

making making the gesture control and then like you know, nodding your head to change lanes.

Speaker 3: It's like, I love that stuff, really I do.

Speaker 4: I'm weird.

Speaker 3: I like technology.

Speaker 1: Yeah. To me, it was technology for technology's sake. I

don't think it added anything to the driveown experience. But

I'm glad that you've somebody connected with somebody because I just thought, this is.

Speaker 2: A party trick.

Speaker 3: When you have a friend in the car, you can say watch this.

Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, somebody in Munich is very happy.

Speaker 4: Thank you.

Speaker 3: I'm glad.

Speaker 2: All right, So now we're now we'll go to a tariff one for sure, John, Okay, okay, buick okay. So basically, okay,

they have four models, three of which aren't made here.

Speaker 1: Right, They're coming from Korea or China, right.

Speaker 3: So.

Speaker 2: What will the fortunes of that brand be going going forward?

Speaker 5: We can answer that if we could tell you what the tariffs are going to be in six.

Speaker 3: Months or tomorrow or tomorrow.

Speaker 5: Yeah, like that's a huge that's a huge open question.

And what GM decides to do once you know what tariffs are going to be for a couple of years, you know whether they decide to give it up or not.

Speaker 2: And we can guess that China's will be high regardless, Oh for sure. So they may. They may calibrate for

South Korea.

Speaker 5: We calibrate for South Korea. No, you're not likely to

calibrate for bringing an Envision over. So you've got to

figure something else. But again, what you decide to do

with that is still going to be somewhat terrorf for dependent on what else you're trying to kind of do in that space.

Speaker 1: Could tariffs kill the Buick brand?

Speaker 3: I don't think so.

Speaker 4: Those their prices were so low. I think even with

the tariff prices on top, like the Invista, you know, when that, I think they'll be there's still market.

Speaker 3: It's possible. One thing, it's possible.

Speaker 5: One of the problems with tariffs is trying to figure out like kind of which vehicle is going to get hit the most in terms of price to consumer or which brand, because even the domestically produced ones still have teriffy on parts, they sell tariff on steel, they're not.

Nobody escapes tariffs in the scenario, and you don't really know how much. And there's seven different ways for OEMs

to deal with the pricing with tariffs, and how are they going to challenge with consumers, and are they going to raise it, are they going to the prices, are they going to keep them down? And where are they

going to be in this whole thing. So it's very

difficult to say this brand is going to have to raise the price to the point that they're not going to be competitive in the market anymore and they have to go We're not. It's it's too early to say that.

And as much as tariffs are a huge problem, this industry is pretty clever when it has to be.

Speaker 3: They can spread it around or something.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, okay, but would they spread it around amongst Buick or would they even try to spread it around among the other.

Speaker 1: General motors because otherwise Buick takes the big hit and die so. But even so, the terriff's gonna hurt Buick,

no question, it's not going to kill them, though, I mean, we'll see because we don't know. Okay, what's hell? What else?

All right?

Speaker 2: Sticking with General motors, why they're going to be in a run here? Cadillac? Okay, Now, I would argue that

Cadillac is perhaps the brand that is doing the best with EVS in terms of its lineup.

Speaker 1: Well, I would might put BMW ahead of them in that regard. But yeah, Cadillac's doing really impressive with its uh,

with its evs. They're probably going to end the second

quarter close to one out of four Cadillacs being sold is going to be an EV and the conquest rate is really impressive. Seventy to eighty percent of the people

buying these things have never been in a Cadillac before or not recently. So yeah, I think it's.

Speaker 2: It's been a good movie.

Speaker 3: See.

Speaker 2: I put them above BMW for this reason that they weren't doing so well, right, I mean they were sort of floundering. BMW is consistently, you know, just and so

for them to be like coming out with these products that are appealing to people and as you say, getting conquests, I mean that's just amazing. I mean, credit to them.

Speaker 5: What do you guys think, Yeah, I'm done with with like in the Cadillac EVS right now. Actually, I think that,

you know, the Ultimum product does it's a little heavy, so let's put that out of the way. Aside from that,

I really like the technology and it I really like the way that they're appealing putting things out. I like

the fact that the Vistic put the augmented reality HUT in it and they didn't like wait for another generation.

They're they're really launching technology with the next model as soon as it comes out, and I think that's going to be a good move for them. Mercedes and BMW

started doing it. Mercedes started wait, not waiting until the

S class to put the technology and just kind of rolling through. And you see that even the different between

the Escalate IQ and the Vistic one getting augmented Reality HID because it was six months later than the other.

I think that they're all coming together really really well.

So I think that they're they're in a good spot with that. The only hold back will be that, you know,

how fast does the real EV transition come and if they bump up against sort of a limit and EVY customers, you might see you might see it. You see it

an upper limit that's that's lower than you want it to be. But I think the product is there to

continue to excel. Their marketing has been fantastic. They've they've

been nailing it left and right.

Speaker 4: And I would give catile At credit for Super Crews being as well received it is because they did a big Super Cruse escalad campaign using celebrities and that's kind of what got people to finally understand how it works.

Speaker 3: And the hands free and you know, so.

Speaker 2: You're saying the GMC exercial, the guy clapping.

Speaker 4: Coming, I think the celebrities reacting to the super Crew's experience was more interesting.

Speaker 1: More real.

Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So another General Motors brand, and this I think is doing a fantastic job. Chevy and you know,

heartbeat of America, heartbeat of General Motors. You take that

heart out. Boy, they got problems.

Speaker 5: But Chevy's got ice products that are hitting really really well.

And they've got EV products that are hitting well.

Speaker 2: And they got full sized pickups, and they.

Speaker 5: Got full sized pickups, you know, including that in there.

Interesting one note on the on the EV pickup truck thing side of it all. There's a lot of conversation

about whether cyber Talk outsold Ford or Cyber Truck, and there's this focus on that General Motors.

Speaker 3: Is doing exactly what they do at to pick up chucks.

They sit back, they.

Speaker 5: Go, I got this brand, I got that brand, I got that brand. I'll out I'll sell more than you

they did. They outsold their conglomeration. If you put GMC

and together, they're electric pickup trucks. Last month, we're ahead

of them, and you just sit back and go, yep, that's what they do.

Speaker 3: It still does not, it does not.

Speaker 5: It does not mean that there isn't softness in the EB pickup truck space because there it isn't coming off the way that everyone wants for everyone. But General Motors

is not doing badly in there. If you look at

one and go, Hummer's not doing enough. Add that all

together and they're not in as bad shape as it looks like. And they're still rolling out the the trim

levels and Chevrolet Silverado and GMC, so there's still more to come.

Speaker 2: It's still a rounding error for the Ice Silver op.

Speaker 5: It is a rounding air for the Ice Silverado, of course, but it's rounding air for you know, everybody.

Speaker 3: The only one is not around. It's arounding air for Tesla.

Speaker 5: You know, yes, that that market is soft, but still GM strategies is what it has been and on that side it's working.

Speaker 2: So so why is why is is Chevy resonating as well as it is? I mean, isn't it like an

old brand that you know, it's like one hundred and ninety years.

Speaker 3: That is the appeal.

Speaker 4: It's a steadfast brand, you know what you're getting. Their

marketing is consistent. Their holiday ads are the best in

the business. Not that it's Christmas all year round, but

that kind of shows you. I mean, they people watch them.

They've got millions of views. It's the best marketing.

Speaker 1: I think. Another thing to keep an eye on is

GM's quality is really coming on strong, you know. And

I'm going by the JD Power Vehicle Dependability Survey, which is after three years of ownership, which is the longest data that we've got access to, and there's second only to Toyota. And I'm combining all four brands together with

Lexis and Toyota, and GM's number two in the market and it has considerably closed the gap on Toyota. So

I think the word of mouth has getting out that hey, these things are dependable, and that's helping sales.

Speaker 3: All right.

Speaker 2: So now we're going to come to one that Tanya and I are gonna have a heated discussion about. I'm

ready Chrysler. So here's my question to the three of you.

Would anybody really notice if the PACIFICA had a different badge on it.

Speaker 4: Yes, because Chrysler is like Chevy, it's been around for one hundred years.

Speaker 3: They're celebrating that.

Speaker 4: And I just interviewed the head of Chrysler yesterday and she said they are here to stay. They've got new

product in the in the I know it's taking a while, but they've got new product coming. And she said it's

like playing whack a mole every week. She's got to

put out another you know, kill Chrysler person.

Speaker 2: Saying something skeptical about the end.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So Stephanie As there's new leadership of Stilantis and he looks across his multiplicity of brands and needs to make some decisions. House Christ are going to play.

Speaker 4: He's already said he's not going to kill them. They

told me that yesterday.

Speaker 2: I believe those of you who are listening to this on the podcast, company's expression was Brushia.

Speaker 5: Sorry, sorry, No, you know, I don't think that that because there's a bunch of challenged brands, I don't think that the first answer is to chop them off. So

I don't think that it means it has to chop it off. I do think that if you just changed

the badge on the Christ woman evand and you put a Dodge badge on it instead not going to work.

I think it changes the value of expectation of that customer, just like they had problem.

Speaker 3: Just like they had the problem.

Speaker 5: Of taking the town the grand caravan buyers and bringing him into the town and country because it was five grand more. They you're not going to go backward. You're

really not going to work it out that well that way.

The other thing, of course, is a dealership network I'll combined.

So in some ways it doesn't matter. In some ways

it doesn't matter, but I think that I agree. Yes,

I've talked to Chris Fiel, and I've talked to Ralph s Gields before too, and yes they've talked about the brand still being there, and there's product in the pipeline, but it's it's a long time coming. And I appreciate

the faith in them, and I don't think they're going away.

But you're going to have to answer that question as long as we're still still eighteen months out, still twenty four months out. Still, No, we haven't really seen it.

So their Chrisler as a brand as and it probably will happen in the next six months anyway. But they've

got to start showing us stuff. They've got to start

actually proving this product is going to come, or they're going to get the question. They're going to keep getting

the question until we have something to really look forward to.

And right now it's just like, oh, yeah, we'll get to it.

Speaker 2: So John, do they I mean, do they have enough models to be a full fledged brand?

Speaker 1: Well, they say products coming, and we know that they've been talking about this airflow, the concept if there's only one more product coming, I don't know. If Dad makes

a brand, there's.

Speaker 3: At least two coming. I think there are. What do

you think it's going to be, Tanya, Oh, she told me yesterday.

Speaker 4: I mean there's gonna be a cross overcoming, a crossover suv.

And then they're still talking about something like a sedan.

Speaker 3: Because she said that.

Speaker 4: The dealers are just you know, they wanted they want the three under back. They could they could sell.

Speaker 1: Another interesting thousands. See that's interesting. And yeah, I think

you can have a brand with only three models, But I don't think you can do it with two.

Speaker 3: I think it would be tough.

Speaker 5: And the only reason I would say they might be able to do it with two is again because of dealerships are under one roof right now.

Speaker 1: Correct, all the brands that dealerships right.

Speaker 5: And because of that, I think it might be able to be to work with only two. I would be

much happier if there were three. Yeah, two is a

little is a little is a little tough to to support.

Speaker 1: I like the idea of a sedan across over in the minivan. That's not bad.

Speaker 5: You do you know, you do have charger, you do have you know, there's a way, there's this van already out there.

Speaker 1: Good point, you know.

Speaker 3: Yeah, And not killing the Chrysler brand.

Speaker 4: No, Pacifica is just the best selling minivan and they've got anyone coming for sure, They've got they've got a one hundred year badge one now on the current generation.

They're not killing Chrysler.

Speaker 2: So who is the competition for the Chrysler brand Buick?

Speaker 4: No, I would say the mini right now. It's minivans,

you know.

Speaker 2: Like, what is the you know, what is the brand promise?

What is the brand identity?

Speaker 5: What that is what they've got to resolve And that's one of the things they've got to communicate because it used to be Buick.

Speaker 3: It used to be just.

Speaker 5: That step up from mainstream. And I feel like there

was an executive a few years ago who said, I'm going to make Chrysler into many people move a brand and a mass market brand because we don't really need to do premium. That might have been a misstep, and

so right now we don't know what Chrysler means, and that's going to be part of that, not just bringing product, but kind of refreshing. Fortunately, the Chrysler brand has a

ton of history, so you you can touch back to history and kind of get people to sort of forget that we forgot what they were. You know, you can

you can touch back and bring that back much easier than you could explain a new brand is whatever. So

there's there's space for them to do that. But that's

one of the things they're going to have to do is almost reintroduce themselves somehow.

Speaker 2: I think that you know, they can't bring out Walter P.

Chrysler's toolbox and people stop start weeping.

Speaker 5: No, no, no, But there's connection, there's connection, and there's history there.

Speaker 2: Okay, right, sticking with that Auburn Hills Dodge, so you know we've seen that Dodges is you know, they first sort of stopped doing the muscle car with an eternal combustion engine and came out with the uh, theytona charger with EV, and now they're bringing back an internal combustion engine because they see that's what the Brotherhood of Muscle wants.

So where does that brand go?

Speaker 5: The internal combustion was in the agenda to begin with, so they've just need to get some patients and connect with people. But there's still I think with Challenger and

Challenger Charger Daytona.

Speaker 3: I think I called it Challenger earlier, didn't.

Speaker 5: I with the Charger Daytona. There's still more more product

coming and it's not all out yet. And yes, the

EV was going to be slow sales to begin with.

I'm not sure if they're having issues in the rollout or not, but Dodge is in a little bit of a weak spot at the moment, but it's just got to keep building. You look at all of Stilanas and

you're in that period where it didn't get enough product investment, and this is what happens. You've got a lull and

some things, and the Charger Daytona by itself, the EV buy itself isn't enough to lift it all up. To

where it needs to be. The subsequent products have to come.

I mean, all we have right now is the coop Charger Daytona. I think three days ago, the three days ago,

four days ago, the sedan came online and we've got the Hornet, which that I feel like nobody would really missed if it didn't happen.

Speaker 3: But that was a little bit of a missed up.

Speaker 5: I don't think it hurts the brand, but I don't think helps the brand, and it's certainly not so.

Speaker 1: I think it was trying to help Alfa Romeo a more than anything else. Because they knew the Tanale wasn't

going to get the volume it needed. They gave Dodge

the Hornet, and look, Dodge has got to get back to a real clear brand image, and that image should be because this is where they've been in the last two decades, American muscle, and they should be able to tap into the Stalantis global distribution start selling these things overseas.

Of course, who knows with the tararffs and all that and retaliation and whatnot, but there's a lot of appeal for American Muscle around the world in massive volumes, know, but collectively it would be a lot to put the Dodge brand in a real healthy position.

Speaker 2: So, tmy, where do you think the Dodge brand is going?

Speaker 4: Well, Brotherhood of Muscle, I mean, they're not going anywhere.

They're they're gonna they're gonna settle back into that and and the vs are Yeah, like you said, I don't think that they didn't they didn't expect them to be huge volume sellers. But you know, there's a there's a

market for it. And it just won Awards ten Best

Vehicle the interior, so they can't be too horrible, right.

Speaker 5: Gorgeous and you know there's they have driven, was on the media drive for that, for the charge of Daytona, and and it is fun to drive, and it is a different experience, it's not the same, and that I don't know.

Speaker 3: How easy it's going to be to convert some of the brother of Muscle.

Speaker 5: But again, you know, you weren't you weren't expecting one hundred thousand units of Charger of Daytona and their first year anyway.

Speaker 2: All right, So so we've established that Chrysler has got to do something. Now we've established DIDG has got to

do something. And now let's go to another Stillantis brand Fiat.

For those of you can't hear very well, that was definitely a long side.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the sales are in the in the gutter literally, you know here, and nothing is resonated. No

matter what they've tried, the sales are not going to pick up. My own conspiracy theory is they're just going

to let the Fiat dealers go out of business rather than close the brand down and have to buy them out.

Speaker 5: I don't know how they manage that side of the equation, but yeah, the Fiat five hundred is not really connecting at all.

Speaker 3: It helps with whatever cafe credits.

Speaker 5: It helps with California and the waiver just got pulled and all that is all still in flux.

Speaker 3: But it does help a little bit.

Speaker 2: Don't you have to sell a certain number have done to get a volume that you can.

Speaker 5: No watch how it works, so you know, they count one for another for cafe it's a little bit different, but for the ZEV mandate it's percentage of sales, so it still can make a different and for counting credits it can still make a difference.

Speaker 3: It does need to be more volume than it does.

Speaker 5: To be more meaningful, but that that is part of the equation, and that was part of the equation I expect for bringing it back. And again, the dealer network exists,

but I don't it just it just does not.

Speaker 3: I don't you know.

Speaker 4: I don't think it's for lack of trying on Stillantis's they just had a they had a brilliant marketing campaign for it. They're putting money behind the brand. They had

a social campaign where they compared the five hundred to the cyber truck and it was really clever and really and really well done and got a lot of attention.

But I don't think it moved the needle much on sales.

Speaker 5: Unfortunately, small little Tudory hashbags are not quite where it's at here, and that hasn't changed, you know, whether it's an internal combustion engine or an EV, it's it's not the segment that enough enough US buyers want to get you the volume.

Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so we'll get to another one of their brands further down the line, moving now alphabetically onto Ford.

Speaker 4: We better get moving. We're not halfway through this list.

Speaker 2: A lot of ways to go. Just stop talking so much.

So okay, so Ford Trucks.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's all is it's trucks, trucks a couple of us and commercial.

Speaker 3: And commercial commercial is is commercial rock, Commercial.

Speaker 5: Is rocking head for them, and they're doing a really good job with that, and yeah, that's there's a lot of opportunity then for them in commercial. Mustang is just

kind of falling off the cliff a little bit. Sales

are not strong and Mustang and they don't seem to know entirely what to do with them. I mean, they're

giving Mustang attention with various additions, but it doesn't fit anymore.

And it's the icon, so you don't want to let it go, but I don't.

Speaker 3: I don't.

Speaker 5: It just doesn't fit anymore really, which is all fine unless actually people did start buying sedans again, which would be nice because they wouldn't have one. I mean that

because the would It wouldn't be nice because Ford wouldn't have one. I would like to see more sedans and

that would be nice, but that the one exposure for that product lineup is is that if people did decide that they wanted an actual passenger car again, they would take a bit for Ford to give them one.

Speaker 2: By the time you think they're doing a good, good job building them forward tough.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's one of the best campaigns out there.

And I don't even know if they need to put any money against it. Their legacy says it all. And

I mean, give you have to give credit for the Machi.

Speaker 3: At least they tried to. I don't think there's anything

wrong with the Mokey.

Speaker 5: I'm not giving I'm not not giving them credit for what they're doing, but they are They are just an SGV and truck brand and it's more about the trucks than it is about the SUVs.

Speaker 3: But yeah, there's they're not going back to passenger car.

Speaker 2: Why is Wall Street not rewarding Ford, Well, it's not rewarding any legacy automate. Well, but I mean, if you

look at the stock price of Ford and compared to the stock price of General Motors.

Speaker 1: It's well, you can't compare stock prices to stock price because there's so many more shares of Ford out there.

But if you look at you know, shareholder return, GM was doing better than Ford somewhat. But I mean, look,

none of the legacies are doing well. Why because if

you inflation adjusts their top line over the last decade, they haven't really grown at all. And this is a

big problem for the industry, not just for Ford. And

this is why Ford's putting so much emphasis on Ford Pro because, like I said, it is rocketing forward and this is where the customer i e. Fleets will gladly

play pay for subscription services to manage their fleet, to control all these kinds of things and the like. And

what do they have something like six hundred and seventy five thousand subscribers right now, and you know, with fifty percent margins, it's like that's a good business. But yeah,

what I'm really watching for Ford is this new skunk Works EVY and I'm guessing it's going to be more than one ev you know. I don't know if it's

going to be a crossover with a little sedan with a truck, but in any case, this is the future of Ford besides the commercial stuff.

Speaker 5: And I agree, I watched keeping an eye out for that too, and I think it's really important. But it's

twenty seven, see it, or twenty eight, so again, it was supposed to be twenty five or twenty six.

Speaker 2: So kids, they're figuring out how to put an engine in a net.

Speaker 5: But you know, when we're talking about stilanis having product program delays. But you know, it's to be fair, there

isn't really an automate groat there. It's not that's not

struggling with some sort of product delay because the market hasn't done what people expected it to do. So Silantha's

is the only one in that in that position, and the skunk Works product, the longer it goes out and the longer.

Speaker 3: It takes to get here sort of.

Speaker 5: The more important it becomes. And they do still have

their warranty stuff to effects. That's another thing that they like.

I don't Wall Street likes very much, not that I try to predict Well Street, but yeah.

Speaker 1: No, I mean last year, Ford spent five point eight billion dollars on warranty and recalls. That's a lot. Now,

I will say again, going back to that gd Power Vehicle Dependability survey, Ford amongst the standard players, not counting Tesla was the biggest improver of all. So maybe they've

gotten there there, they've turned the corner.

Speaker 2: Maybe improvement, but yeah, it's still not There's been a lot of recalls from for the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, new one every day, yesterday or last week.

Speaker 2: All right, Okay, next Genesis. Now I am blown away

at how they are consistently coming out with new that are beautiful, have interior executions that are maybe the best, probably the best. I mean, it's just like, how did

this happen?

Speaker 3: Time and patience and focus and.

Speaker 2: What they've only been around for like this long.

Speaker 3: Years, right really since they started because.

Speaker 2: I just says they got to be around for like a hundred.

Speaker 4: No, No, I think Genesis they came out with a clear vision and they've stuck.

Speaker 5: To it, and Hundai is given them the support and saying it and has the patience. That's where sort of

patience and time comes in. They're young still, of course,

and they were able to make changes when they needed to and it was now goes back a couple of years.

But when they started out and wanted to do Hondai, Genesis combined dealers and realized that wasn't going to work.

They took a pivot and said, wait, no, we need our standalone dealers. We need to do something different, and

even stopped bringing cars over a little while because they realized that this was going to cause a sales thing and they just didn't want cars sitting in the warehouse waiting to be delivered. And so they've had areas where

they've where they've changed their strategy and just bit the bullet and did it. And since then, you know, lately

the products have been outstanding. Looking the GV sixty, Honestly,

I keep looking at the sales of that and going why why is it it's lower than I feel like it should be.

Speaker 1: Look, they're overall sales and they tend not to break them out, and especially on a global basis, but it's still a very small player.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just.

Speaker 2: So so Tanya. This leads me to ask you, I mean,

are they promoting themselves sufficiently?

Speaker 3: I think they are.

Speaker 4: They've they've got a new campaign out. They they've they've

sort of stepped away from being the Hyundai Kia sibling into being sort of their own brand. And to the

Stephanie's point about the dealerships, that was a smart move because I've been to the Independent the new Genesis dealers in there, they're wonderful. With Cherry Hill Dealership in Pennsylvania

is amazing. It's that was a very smart move on

the part.

Speaker 5: It's a smart move and it reinforces everything about their personality.

Speaker 3: It really does a dealership for their marketing.

Speaker 1: You know, actually they wanted to do standalone dealership to begin with, and they're dealers here in the US and no way, I mean this unknown brand, the volume is going to be small. I'm supposed to put a million

bucks into a store. They were the ones who nixed it.

And then finally, and this is why I think we're seeing success with Genesis is that you've got support from the very top of the company and they recognize, we're very proud we're Korean, we're Hyundai. We've got to have

a luxury brand that can compete with Mercedes and Lexus, and we're going to give you guys the support that you need until it happens. And we're not going to

worry about quarterly earnings on this. And they tell their

designers go out there and be a challenger, take risks bold and you see it in the way that the cars look.

Speaker 2: And I think that maybe these are lessons that traditional companies ought to pay attention to.

Speaker 5: I take it right, yes, And that support until they get it is the important part. There isn't It's not

a you'd got to do it in five years. You

got to do it in ten years. It's we know

it's going to take twenty five to really get to where we think we want to be. We're cool, right,

well we'll get there. And there were customer spots. Even

though they are long large and the customers are low volume, the customer response has been strong.

Speaker 1: All right.

Speaker 2: So moving on GMC, which I characterize as a professional grade money maker, yep, right, I mean, Dnali is just crazy in terms of what it's able to bring in terms of.

Speaker 5: It gets it gets decent volume, and it brings lots of profit. And they have managed to continue to do that.

At four has picked up a little bit more than I kind of thought it necessarily would.

Speaker 3: So this is the off road version.

Speaker 5: Yeah, they've they've been able to kind of work the an Alley magic on that as well. And and it's

interesting because if you look across the industry, sub brands don't don't really take all that well very often. I

mean we were talking about Buick earlier. Buick evener is

a sub brand kind of you know what's out there, maybe a little bit, but it's not. But Donale, I mean,

you can you just go. I wanted to Denaley and

then they figure out of which one it is and and sub brands don't do that very often, so it's nice to see that they were able to get close to that with the AT four.

Speaker 3: But yeah, they just make money.

Speaker 5: And it's a different buyer from the Chebvy buyer, and it's a different buyer from the Cadillac buyer, and it's not that much more effort.

Speaker 2: So is professional grade.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been there. It's been their marketing slogan forever

and they haven't spent a ton of money, but it still resonates, you know, and and just keeping with it, not trying to pivot and be all things all people.

It's worked for them. They are They are professional grade,

professional grade money makers. So you know, what more can

you want if you're GM?

Speaker 2: Not much more more money? Okay, Honda, So you know,

I think a lot of people think Accord and Civic and yet it surprises me how many other vehicles they have in their lineups that are not cars. Yet cars

are sort of the basis of that brand.

Speaker 3: Image wise, I mean, because it's CERB and Civic and NTRV.

Speaker 2: Now, yeah, you know, they still have the Honda Odyssey, they have the Pilot, they have the passport.

Speaker 5: You know, one of the differences we talked about, you know, Ford's doing and incidans and is Honda and Toyota and Chevrolet are all aiming to be full, full brands, and not every brand has to be full in order to make it work. So, yeah, Honda has a robust lineup,

and it's some of them are doing better than others, and they're giving it some more attention. CRV is still

pretty strong and again leaning into hybrids.

Speaker 2: I'm the last month sales or fifty percent of the CRVS.

Speaker 5: Part, and that's and that's working out great. But I

think that the sales increases in general have been more kind of market driven, and I think there's more cannibalization of the ice than actual drawing new customers in.

Speaker 3: That's a really hard one to figure out.

Speaker 5: But if you look at CRV, you look at Rev four and even though you've got sales up, you've got the whole industry out, So sales were going likely to go up for those two vehicles anyway. So really, and

it's if we put some of the better resition, if customers are more a loyal if it helps with fuel economy and all of those things, that substitution and cannibalization is just fine. But I think there's a lot of

that happening where it's I was going to get a CRV anyway, and I'm going to take this the hybrid for all of the attributes that it has along the way, they're building up that that reputation, which Toyota and Honda both have good hybrid reputations anyway, So it's a good move.

Speaker 2: John. Where do you where do you see Honda?

Speaker 1: I would agree with everything that Stephanie just said. So I.

Speaker 2: Think we got to move on the list.

Speaker 1: All yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: They just signed on as the Olympic sponsors, So there's they're spending going to be spending a lot of money on marketing this year, So you're going to be seeing a lot of Honda ads on all your vehicles. So

maybe they'll sell more passports.

Speaker 1: I don't know.

Speaker 2: Maybe Hyundai. We've we've said how wonderful Genesis is doing.

I mean Hyundai, and you know, stephan to your point of being a broad market brand, I mean again, here's here's a company that has got it from the you know, compact to full size to s uvs with gorgeous I mean the Hundai Santa Fe. Every time I see that

vehicle is like, wow.

Speaker 1: This is gorgeous.

Speaker 3: And that one was interesting because when it first came.

Speaker 5: Out like it it took a bit, Like it didn't it didn't jump the sales.

Speaker 2: Or box your models.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it didn't take off.

Speaker 1: Hold out there, bold it was.

Speaker 5: Out there, and I remember talking to them a couple of times. So like, we know it's a little bit

more expensive than the other one. We know it's a

little bit bigger. We knew it was going to take

a bit, but it starts warming up. I feel like

when you look at the at the sales results, Hyundai is in UH is one of the best power training positions and and and architecture positions because.

Speaker 2: They got to do it right across the board, not.

Speaker 5: Just because I have it, but because they're very efficient at doing so. Their their multi energy platforms have been

really strong, and that as you know, as part of the Korean UH parent company, and that sort of dedication to things. They're they're pivoting, and they're acting quickly and

reacting to things and willing to to take a leap and make sure. So I think they're they're in one

of the better positions.

Speaker 2: So, Tanya, I missed the Jeff Bridges ads, But how are they doing in terms of their messaging?

Speaker 4: Hyundai is uh there. Their ads are consistent, They're a

little quirky and fun and concumorous and they kind of fit the brand, so they're they're right on target.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm super impressed by a Hundai. They're quick to

market with new technology that is in everyday brand kind of cars. Also, speaking about the hybrids, I just got

out of a Sonata Hybrid. I got forty five miles

to the gallon with it, and I got to tell you, I was foot to the floor almost all the driving I was doing because I was racing around town here, going to different events and the like.

Speaker 2: And I just admitted, you just drive that way. Well

I do too, don't. It's just what it is.

Speaker 1: But I mean, I didn't try to get the best fuel economy possible. And that's what floored me is I

got forty five miles to the gallon. Also, connectivity. Every

car company in the world, This is a message to every car company in the world. Figure out how Hyundai

and Kia and Genesis have figured out how to pare phones.

It's the best in the business. I mean, you pull

your phone out of your pocket practically and it's connected.

They've got it figured out.

Speaker 4: Took them a minute though, to get rid of the wire, the wire, you know, and yeah, but it's gone.

Speaker 2: And so right you buy you buy a car today, you don't buy it last year, right right, all right, Infinity, how long are the light's going to be kept on?

Speaker 3: It's hard to say, come on.

Speaker 2: Faster, faster, faster, faster, faster.

Speaker 1: So I just brought some things. So last year they

sold in the US fewer than sixty thousand vehicles with five models. That's that's not they need to pare down

the number of models or they've got to figure out something.

But I mean they're putting an awful lot of money into that brand and I just don't see it paying off.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's that one's a tough one, a great They do need to pair down loud now. You know, Quicks

fifty five and Quicks fifty are kind of fall by the wayside, so.

Speaker 2: Maybe that will help.

Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, it's a tough brand, and that the US is really its primary market a little bit in the Middle East, so that's sixty that has to really work here. Again,

it's you know, it's going to have to be profitable somehow within that space. And the other big question will be,

as Nissan moves forward and decides to get better and stronger, do they decide that they still need a luxury brand or not. If they do, then they're going to have

to have the patience to get through this and figure out how to fix it. And it might be an

eight year fix, but to get it to more volume and to get it a little bit more prominent. They

do keep again, you know, we're delaying programs. Infinity still

didn't go near an EV. We're still delaying programs. This

does seem to be a common theme, right, more you delay your programs, the harder it is.

Speaker 2: Enough Infinity okay, jeep okay. It's it's had lots of

competition from the likes of Bronco, the AT four or to a certain degree, right, And if you look at their sales last year gone down? Can they get it back?

Speaker 1: What do you think, Tanya?

Speaker 4: I think they've got a pricing issue. I think that's

part of the problem, and they're not marketing the individual models as much. They're kind of just resting on their

cheap laurels and people are they have a hard time differentiating.

You know, why should I buy a wagonear, you know, versus a Grand Wagon ear? Well, big, that's an easy lot.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's money.

Speaker 1: But well they've got a new Cherokee coming that should help them a lot. They should have never dropped the

bottle in the first place. I think they realized that

and and that'll help address a little bit the pricing problem that you're talking about, because the Grand Cherokee stuff clearly went beyond what the brand can support.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're working on the pricing issue, and if there's it.

Speaker 1: Is I'm a Grand wagoneer went beyond where the brand can really support.

Speaker 5: You know, I think making the pricing changes that they needed to make is taking a little bit of time to sort through for consumers to recognize that the change has been made, because yes, Grand Wagon air went went higher faster than the brand was ready to go do, and then people were ready to give them. Even though

jeeps have always been a little bit more than the competitions, the Jeep's not been cheap. It's not a cheap brand.

Cherokee is going to be the big thing for that, and they appear to be going really smart with Cherokee in that it's it's hybrid and probably EREV plug in or something, but not full beth on that product because it needs to be more mainstream and they need to keep the cost where it's accessible.

Speaker 3: So I think there's a lot of opportunity in that vein.

Speaker 2: All right, So we've been given big love to the Handai group. So the third of the Handai Group companies Kia. Again,

here's here's a company that's you know, striking design, I mean and from top to bottom. I mean you look

at the entry level K four unfortunate name used to be the forte I mean gorgeous car, yeah, you know, for not big money.

Speaker 5: And that's consistent across all three brands. And they're all

very different and very different personalities and you don't mistake them one for the other at all. And they've just

been they've been nailing it on design, which is great.

Has anybody managed to do that for which how long?

Twenty years maybe, And so that's that's going to be the challenge to keep you that fresh.

Speaker 3: Yeah, the kve.

Speaker 4: Wars was brilliant and ballsy and has done well. So

kudos to Kia.

Speaker 1: I just you know, Kia was really closing the gap with Hyundai. In fact, there was a point there in

the last two years where I thought, whoa, if the Hundai people aren't careful, Kia is going to surpass them in sales. And now I'm starting to see Hundai pull

away from them again. And I'm not sure exactly what's

going on there. Maybe maybe they felt the heat and

really turned up their efforts. But so that's not a

criticism of Kia per se, but it's uh, it's not closing the gap with Hyundai now.

Speaker 2: You know.

Speaker 5: It's interesting because there were a couple of products that they came out with Kias before they did Hondai's, which was reversed from anything they've ever done before. So now

the Hyundai versions are out, so this could be explaining both of those things why the gap started to widen and why it's closing again now that Hyundai's products are on the same platforms and all that.

Speaker 3: So that might be part of that. But it was

interesting that they decided to do that for a little while.

Speaker 2: Okay, Lexus in Q one, it's sales for a second only to BMW, which means that it was above Mercedes, it was well above Cadillac. It's consistently throughout its history.

I mean, we were talking about Infinity before and wondering whether it's going to make it. Those two basically came

out at the same time, and here it is.

Speaker 1: I mean, so how do you explain that jen look consistency.

I mean, they have a really good product Cadence, there's always something new coming out every single year. The quality

is bulletproof. Everybody in the world believes that, which is

more important than the reality. But that is the reality.

And they just, you know, as the Toyota groups have this stick toitness, and I think in the luxury segment that's incredibly important. You know, it's not we're real hot

this year and we're not that year, or we've got flashy styling, or now we've pulled it back. They're just

the same every single year, and I think that segment of the public appreciates.

Speaker 5: That it's consistent and it's conservative and it works for that buyer. And they haven't pulled completely away from from cars, No,

they have not.

Speaker 3: They have.

Speaker 4: The S three fifty is one of the best vehicles out there. It's price point is surprisingly low for what

you get. I think about the Yes, they just revealed.

Speaker 5: I was over to HQ the events last week or two weeks ago, whatever it was, and got the chance to sit in the new Lexus es what next year late this year.

Speaker 3: That interior is so cool.

Speaker 2: It's either going to be all electric or all hybrid, and yeah, it's no both. And some are criticizing the

exterior styling is looking too much like a Crown and it's sort of sort of does and so from being the swanking sedan that is out there right to what it's becoming.

Speaker 1: But so TN you mentioned the price when I was shocked.

Speaker 4: I just had one, and I thought it was going to be it was my it was it's it starts at forty eight five.

Speaker 3: I mean that is, it's not so much car for forty eight five. I was shocked at how low the

price was.

Speaker 2: All Right, sitting out in the parking lot right now, waiting to be driven by you is a m X five Mazda.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So my question is how long does Mazda continue to be the driver's favorite or is it going to lose that and pursue big SUVs like everyone else?

Speaker 1: Well, you know, an suv in the lineup doesn't hurt in any case. But Masa's been doing really good. I mean,

they've really come a long way in the last five years.

Their sales last month were not good. They're probably running

out of pre tariff product and the prices are starting to hurt them. But I love driving their cars now.

I'm an enthusiast, and so the whole balance, the acceleration, the feel, the steering, the breaking of everything, They've got it nailed, nailed. I love it. I think probably a

good part of their problem still in the US is that their dealers are in the wrong locations, and so I don't know how you solve that without spending a boat load.

Speaker 2: To move them.

Speaker 3: You got to get the dealer, should do that.

Speaker 2: No, they've quick quick, so we got to be You've.

Speaker 5: Got the personality, they've got drivers, and you know, they just drive really well and not everybody cares. So they're

always going to be kind of limited because that's just not the thing that you can advertise well enough.

Speaker 3: But I'll drive a c X fifty over a curl across, yes, any day of the week.

Speaker 2: Yes, all right, Mercedes. We talked about Audie earlier. Basically

sort of disappearing. It seems to me that this is

sort of the same case with Mercedes. It just doesn't

seem to be as much part of the culture of cars as it once was.

Speaker 5: And it might be again this proliferation of models that you've just confused the heck out of everyone. There's a

there's one of everything. And you don't have an AMG.

You have five amgs on each model line. You don't

have a gas and an electroc you have like just it is. It's a very confusing lineup to try and

sort through, and that might be fit hating people a little bit.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't say screw it. I'm gonna go buy BMW.

Speaker 3: And I can't figure out what this one.

Speaker 1: They put a bunch of money into saying all our evs are going to be EQ Now they're going no, no, no, no, we're not going to call them.

Speaker 2: E q's anymore.

Speaker 1: And it adds to the confusion you're talking.

Speaker 2: About Nissan, don don done.

Speaker 1: What do you think, Tanya? Oh?

Speaker 4: Nissan? They they've fallen and they can't get up, you know,

I I just don't know what the even They're they're emphasizing price, They're they're doing full line ads, which I understand why they're doing it, but they're losing what what panache they had?

Speaker 1: Desperation moves is what you're seeing right now. Yeah, the

company's in deep trouble and uh, their their lineup is aged and uh it Look, the only thing that's going to solve it is a bunch of new product which is going to cost What are you you're saying that?

Speaker 3: Is that the theme that we've had a little bit all day.

Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, you don't you don't come out with and you get a little slow and again, industry and external issues have affected so many that that's kind of where we're at. It's not just Nissan was too silly

to bring out good new product fast enough. There was

a lot going on. But that's what we keep coming

back to. The brands that are struggling generally in this

whole conversation have have been about product, and Nissan needs a little bit more and they're working on it, and then they delay it, and then they work on it, and then they delay it, and that's and.

Speaker 2: Then somebody goes and buys a Hundai and then that's. Yeah.

Speaker 1: They make most of their money in the US market, and the tariff thing is going to turn that upside down?

Speaker 2: All right, Ram, what will matter most? And E rev

or a mid size or a heavy just kidding, well that's coming so or an suv or an suv.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's almost about I can't say anything else.

Speaker 1: I've just heard a little Bertie told you.

Speaker 4: Yeah, little Bertie said that.

Speaker 3: That's a consideration.

Speaker 5: Yeah, the mid size will give you more volume than the ERA will give you initially, but the ERA is the set up for what your powertrain needs to be in eight years.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 1: But don't you think the mid size market is oversaturated product?

Speaker 3: I do, and yet I still stand by that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can see that. But you know, supposedly

they're going to put this mid size in the Belvideer plant in Illinois, right at least that's what they've been talking about.

Speaker 3: That's what they put in the union contract.

Speaker 1: In the union contract. What's that truck going to do

forty fifty thousand a year? I mean, with all the

other product that's in the mid size segment, I don't see how you can possibly support that plant on a mid size size.

Speaker 3: I feel like that's a really good question.

Speaker 2: If you're a dealer, you want something sure, Oh yeah, the dealers don't want that, but so I want that.

Speaker 5: I feel like there might be another solution if the Belvidere plant wasn't the right solution. I feel like there's

there's a production system that if they want the mid size does they have to be there. I know that's

what's committed, and that's what they've said. So I'm not

saying they're going to do something else, but there's another option.

So the question isn't where are they going to build up the questions whether they do it? And and I

there's they're going to take.

Speaker 2: It all right, lightning around here. Now we've had ended

up on that. It's rivian. Well they make in the

long run.

Speaker 1: I think they will. You know, volkswagons pouring five billion

bucks into them. That's going to pay a lot of bills. Now,

do they need that plant in Georgia? We'll see the lower.

Speaker 4: Price vehicles going to help them away, correct a lot of interest?

Speaker 5: R two yes, R two and our three are going to and R three Yeah, that's when they see anybody's and they better need the Do they better need the plant?

The question is do they need the plant five years, ten years? But they better need the plant eventually correct.

Speaker 2: All right, Suber, How important is Toyota's investment in the brand.

Speaker 1: It's going to save them.

Speaker 2: I mean, so if we take it, if we take it out, it's done well.

Speaker 1: Look, you know, can can subar afford to do all this hybridden electric stuff on its own. That's that's a

lot of money. So if you can just get it

from Toyota, who you're You're off to the races. All right.

Speaker 2: Now, we can't turn the rest of the show because the rest of the show is like three and it's Tesla. Okay,

if it's a normal car company, as people would argue, it has become a normal car company. Normal car companies,

as we've as you just pointed out, have lots of new product, and if they don't have lots of new products, they don't do very well. So are we now seeing

that they don't have lots of new product.

Speaker 5: They need products and they need more and they delay, which is you know their motors opera on it is delaying things and you know they need they need product.

They need product. That's different enough. Model y changes are

doing Okay. Model three changes didn't make a lot of

difference in the sales. The idea, the idea that you

don't have to change much of the exterior the interior, just add much software to it is proving to not move the needle on a longer term basis.

Speaker 3: They need product.

Speaker 2: So Tanya is is is Tesla still sort of like apple Ish in terms of having you're shaking your head from not.

Speaker 4: Not when you've got a CEO that's I don't want to even spend the next two minutes talking about Elon Musk, but.

Speaker 2: Because the other two minutes will be talking about Toyto.

Speaker 4: He's alienated a lot of a lot of diehard Tesla owners and that's I mean, just look at their I just heard of statistic their UK sales were down like twenty five percent or something, and.

Speaker 5: The residuals are also not great. There's there's a whole

there is the ceo, but there's a whole slew.

Speaker 1: Of right issues. They're real danger is their sales are

way down in China and this is remember they launched the new model. Why what's that juniper?

Speaker 2: Yeah?

Speaker 5: Is it right?

Speaker 1: They launched that in February and China and sales are down significantly. So this hope, there's there's great hope that

the hy was going to turn things around hasn't worked in China at least now.

Speaker 3: There's more competition and there's a lot of things happening.

So the CEO is part of it, but it's not.

It's not.

Speaker 1: But I will say this again, going back to the JD Power vds, they were the biggest improver of anybody.

Speaker 2: You're you're big on this improvement stuff. Well, yeah, like

it was this sort of like an F student who gets up to D what an improvement?

Speaker 1: You got to start some place?

Speaker 2: You gotta start some place, all right, Toyota. Okay, so

we talked about breadth of offering. I mean, you and

I a couple of weeks ago drove the BZ. Now

it's got it's got numbers, it's it's.

Speaker 4: No longer the BZ four X's the BZ, which is what customers were calling it anyway, so brilliant to actually just.

Speaker 2: So now it has a range over three hundred miles.

Everybody was complaining about it before. So so Toyota has

just done its continuous improvement thing. And I mean, and

if you look at car companies that you know, begin with the Tea not Tesla, that are that are doing incredibly well in the market. It's Toyota.

Speaker 1: It's best running car company in the world, flat stop right there. They made like thirty billion dollars of operating

profit last year. It's it's staggering the amount of money

that they made. And slow, I shouldn't say slow, steady, steady, steady, steady,

consistent conservative, really study things before you pull the trigger.

Speaker 3: Fast follower.

Speaker 5: You don't necessarily have to be the one to break the news and be the first to the segments, but you continue to improve it, and you continue to improve it.

So they took a few knocks with BZ four X when it first came out.

Speaker 3: Because you did.

Speaker 2: I heard this guy unbelievable crashing them. They're doomed, they're

never going to make it.

Speaker 1: No, well, I said, they're EV's the way they were doing.

Speaker 5: It right, and just in the mid cycle they addressed a lot of what was wrong with the first one and they'll they'll continue to do that.

Speaker 1: Look until they get their evs out of their BEV factory.

I don't think what these are a little bit better than compliance cars. What they got right now a little.

Speaker 3: Bit better, yeah, but it's better than it was better than it was.

Speaker 2: The numbers of the VZ never competitive.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it didn't take it and take it above, but it's competitive, so you're not going to be like, I can't take it because it's not three hundred miles of range.

Speaker 3: You got three hundred miles range, all right.

Speaker 2: Speaking of EV's Volkswagen, now, it seemed to me Volkswagen was bet and big on the success of EV's in this market and that doesn't seem to be working out very well.

Speaker 3: No, their EV's haven't been doing that well. I mean,

that's that's an understander, right that the.

Speaker 4: Buzz a little buzz is way too expensive.

Speaker 5: It's expensive and the range isn't great and it appeals to nostalgia, but that's about it. And the four ID

four is just for me, was a little bland, you know.

I would have loved a VW EV that was more golf like, that was a little bit more precise and fell Rocco bring back.

Speaker 3: To Chroaco one's not bad though, tig One's not bad now the new one. Yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that's not to say all their products are bad, but their EV's have not been been hitting and the others have been more competitive.

Speaker 1: Of the US now and these are It went pretty well in Europe. In fact, I want to say the

group is number one by a margin in Europe.

Speaker 5: It's just that here and then they ran into a couple of issues that slowed everything down. So yeah, they're

going to have to figure out as US buyers don't gravitate to evs as fast and there's better options out there right now.

Speaker 3: They've got the work cut out for.

Speaker 2: Them, all right. And the last one for all of

you who have stuck with us for this show. Most

of you left at the beginning, But Volvo will Chinese ownership doom it in the US?

Speaker 1: Tanya, what do you think it's not going to help?

Or about Volvo overall?

Speaker 3: Well, should we talk about Pollstar too? I mean it's

not going to help.

Speaker 2: Yeah, but what does that mean? I mean it is like, well,

if they had like low tire pressure, that wouldn't help either.

Speaker 4: I don't think their marketing is doing anything. They're not marketing,

They're just not putting any money behind it. So it

doesn't really even matter who owns them at this point because they're so indistinctive.

Speaker 5: That marketing has been pretty there's a little bit more targeted.

They keep getting delayed on products. They're the biggest problem

with Chinese ownership. Of course, it's going to be the tariffs,

right that word again, Yeah, and the lack of US production is going to be the bigger problem than the ownership.

But because of the China ownership, you end up with with trade issues that others don't.

Speaker 3: Have to deal with.

Speaker 1: There's a lot of internal problems that evolve over that haven't been very visible. They just got rid of their CEO,

for example, and would retire. It was a lot of

and the finances are a mass and that's kind of caught me by surprise because I thought they were doing fairly well and then just literally in less than twelve months, the wheels are starting to come off the company. So

they've got some issues.

Speaker 3: They got to deal with delaying products by almost a year.

Speaker 1: Again, the tariffs did a lot of that, right X thirty was supposed to be here a year ago.

Speaker 5: Well X ninety just it's his initial launch got delayed before the tariff problem. And yes, tariffs affected EX thirty

terrfs are affecting Polestar or will as you know, they've got to figure out how to work with that. Polestar

I give a little bit a little bit more leeway too, because they're still just starting out and so they have some time to kind of work with that maybe. But Volvo,

it's going to be interesting, you're right to see kind of how they get back to making money again. And

up until now, Julie is really kind of let Volvo run itself. So is it the Chinese ownership that's the problem,

or as Volvo just really need to figure out how to run its finance is a little bit better.

Speaker 2: So they should hire a CFO, is what you're saying.

Speaker 3: Yeah, they hired one, the CEO.

Speaker 1: But so there az right accurate, Evolvo.

Speaker 4: We've covered almost every poll Stars thrown in for good.

Speaker 1: That's right.

Speaker 2: Yeah, see we added we added a p Yeah we had no we didn't talk about JLR.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Jaguar Land Rover. We didn't get to. There's not

much to talk about with Jaguar.

Speaker 2: That's why there were we didn't talk about them o.

Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're in a little break. I'll back the Jaguar.

Speaker 2: So, so what dealership just down the street that it used to be used to be a Jaguar dealership, now it's now it's what.

Speaker 1: Uh, the Jaguar dealership is turning into a brand new Audi dealership. And there's a Porsche one right behind it.

And there's a down the road here, just a mile or two, uh, a land Rover dealership, and the Jaguar stuff has ended up there. So anyway, we're gonna have

to wrap this up. Tanya, thanks so much for coming on. Stephanie,

always good to have you and Gary. Great idea of

going through us all the brands like this. This was fun.

Speaker 2: Yeah, six months, will do it again, Okay, real good.

Speaker 1: Want to thank all of you for having tuned in.