Bargain hunting for early 2000s enthusiast cars #272

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Welcome to the intercooler podcast, everybody.

This is episode 272 with Dan Proser and Andrew Frankel.

And this week, we're playing the game that we like to play sometimes, right?

Where I go off to the classifieds, find 10 cars around a theme.

Don't tell me about any of them.

Don't tell you what they are, and we just discuss those cars.

Now, what I want to do is discuss, A, the specific cars that I found, but B, the

cars in general, because I might have dug out a total dog just because it's cheap and

looks tempting.

But we shouldn't let that put us off the car as a whole.

So we'll discuss both aspects, right?

And this time, I've chosen early 2000s cars, spanning a couple of grand to 120 grand.

Just because there is a bit of a sort of ground swell of opinion, I think, that

those early 2000s, 2005.

Are we about to have a peak car conversation?

Yeah.

It did come up on one of the stories on the intercooler app and website.

In the comments, someone was suggesting that that sort of era was peak.

Did you just mention the intercooler app and website?

No, I wouldn't do that.

I wouldn't do that.

We have one, apparently.

Do we?

We should mention it.

But I think it's quite a good shout, isn't it, before all the nannying ADAS systems

and everything else came in?

I think it certainly exists somewhere between 1990 and 2010.

Yeah.

So this is all a slap bang in the middle of that, isn't it?

Yeah.

So around the turn of the century, it's pretty much there, isn't it?

I might, probably just because I'm that much much older, I might go something

middle eight and nineties.

But again, as is always the case with these things, there are no wrong answers.

So yeah, I've chosen 10 cars from that era.

And that is the only thing that links them.

They are totally a wide range of cars, very wide value.

So we'll discuss them.

But before we do, the intercooler app and website, this is my weekly reminder that

as a podcast listener, you can get a 20% discount on your subscription to the intercooler

app and website.

For the first year, there'll be a link in the description or just head to the-intercooler.com

and use coupon code POD20 at checkout to get your 20% discount and better still, better,

better still, right?

We have a new partner, a new car care partner.

Hold on.

Here we go.

Here it is.

They're called Supernatural.

If you're watching on YouTube, you'll be able to see me holding up a bottle of

Supernatural shampoo, that one.

And every month to a TI subscriber, we're giving away a kit worth 125 quid.

And we alternate between new subscribers and existing subscribers.

But every month, a TI subscriber will receive a Supernatural car care kit worth 125 quid.

So maybe that's all the reason you need to go and sign up if you haven't already.

And they call it the 911 GT3 RS of car care kits.

They do.

How have they said which generation?

I think they're probably talking 997-ish.

Oh, OK.

That's what I imagine.

PB.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

OK.

That's very peak.

Yeah.

Not 991.

No.

I think they're talking 997-ish.

OK.

Which rang a bell with me.

OK.

Shall we get started with this city game?

Oh, no.

Blimey.

Yes.

Here we go.

Car 1 is an MGZT.

Wrong engine.

Next.

Move on.

Sorry.

Let me just describe this.

This is a 2004 car, manual, a petrol.

This is a facelifted one, isn't it?

Because it's got those lights.

Oh, we can do these in price order.

Is this the cheapest car?

Yeah.

It's in price order.

OK.

This one's done 57,000 miles.

It's gray.

It's not the red one in the background.

If you're watching on YouTube, you'll maybe just about be able to see the red

one in the background.

We'll talk about the gray one.

57,000 miles up for 195.

You say it's the wrong engine, but it is a 2.5-litre V6 with 190 horsepower.

Yes.

It's a wrong-wheel drive.

OK.

Yeah, but you're not going to get a V8 one for two grand.

No, you're not.

OK.

So actually, for those who are not watching this on YouTube, this is an MGZT 2.5 V6.

And it was actually not a bad car at all.

And for less than 2,000 pounds, it sounds like a nice thing to knock about it and not have

to worry too much if you get a big bill because it was too big, you'd just throw the car away.

What I would say is that if I was going for an MG of that era, the ZR and the ZS were

probably, well, they were definitely more fun to drive, the ZR in particular, which

was the sort of like the Rover 200-based car.

They were actually really cracking little things to go smoking about the place in, and I think

quite underrated.

All the press cars seemed to be bright yellow for some reason.

And I have much fond of memories of those.

They also made good little racing cars.

I used to race against them in a Clio.

And they were quick.

Yeah.

The ZS, yes, the mid-sized one.

My uncle had a couple with this engine that turned half-litre to V6.

So that's the sort of the 400-series Rover, isn't it?

Yeah.

And I always really liked that engine.

And I suppose that's why this one.

I think what would be quite nice with this one is if it were a ZTT, if it were a wagon,

that would actually be very nice.

Because I was about to call it a Rover, which it is, obviously.

But they were well-engineered because it was done by Longbridge and BMW together.

They were high-quality cars.

They were quite, you know, they were properly built.

I don't know what the spare situation would be now, but I imagine it's pretty good.

Our contributor, Richard Bremner, has won.

And likes it very much.

He's got a Rover 75, but it's essentially this.

Which I've driven.

And they're quiet and they're comfortable.

And you know, they're nice things.

And, you know, 1975, they'd probably take 1800 cash, wouldn't they?

Yeah.

You know, you can't go too far wrong with it.

I imagine would tax be quite expensive on that?

It probably would be, wouldn't it?

I don't know.

It might well be.

Yeah.

It's had a few owners this one.

Five owners.

But I think, I mean, the photograph speak for themselves, says the vendor.

And I include the cigarette burn on the driver's seat for completeness.

Oh, I mean, somebody's been smoking it.

It does sound like it, doesn't it?

Yeah.

But it's a, I think that's quite an interesting car for less than two grand.

I do agree.

With a cool engine.

I do agree.

Okay.

All right, let's mix it up a little bit then.

What have we got?

Ooh, Range Rover L322.

This is a Vogue, a 4.4-litre V8.

So this is a third generation Range Rover, isn't it?

Quite an early one.

What year is it?

It's a 2004.

2004.

Okay.

So it's quite early.

It's not super early.

I mean, yeah, the 322s are, I mean, it's the car that essentially got Range Rover the

reputation that it enjoys to this day.

It stopped, it turned Range Rover from being a sort of, you know, a posh SUV into a proper

luxury brand where it could compete and can and does compete head on with, you

know, companies like Bentley.

And this is the car that started it.

This is the car that was, you know, designed under BMW's ownership, but actually largely

delivered under Ford's.

And they're great.

They have amazing interiors.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously with old cars like this, you've got to wonder about, you know, reliability

and you'd have to budget accordingly.

But that's just not much money at all, is it?

No.

So this one's up for £2,288.

Okay.

I mean, it almost makes me wonder why is there something we don't know about it?

No.

So what I've tried to do with all of these is I might have found quite cheap examples,

but I've looked for evidence that they are usable cars in good working order.

So this one's an LPG, it's done 135,000 miles.

Two owners.

I just, you know, it's not the season for it, perhaps, but come October, November, a couple

of grand into an L322.

It's going to be great for a winter, isn't it?

So my brother has an L322, which he bought when it had done 100,000 miles, but it's

got the big V8 diesel in it.

And if you're going to get an L322, that's what you want.

That 4.4-litre V8 diesel, much more reliable than the earlier V8 diesel, and just, it gives

you the range, it makes your fuel costs almost affordable.

You get that massive wall of torque, they're really good.

So if I was going to go for an L322, I wouldn't buy that one, because to me it does another

right engine in it.

But they are fine, fine things.

Gavin Green has recently written a story for us about, all about the L322.

Because he launched it?

Yeah.

He was what, comms director?

He was the head of comms for Land Rover when they did the biggest launch of the company's

history.

Yeah.

And he explains how the car came to be, what the alternative options were.

Do you remember we spoke about this last week?

How do you build a posh SUV, do you platform share or build your own thing?

Yeah.

So there was an idea that it was just going to be an X5 with a top hat on, wasn't

it?

Yeah.

And the Land Rover lot just said, you can't do that.

But there are, but the Land Rover lots was that you just do a facelift of the P38, which

was the previous car, which was a really far and away, the poorest Range Rover.

And the BMW lot and similarly said, well, you're not doing that.

And so literally, the Land Rover wouldn't do what BMW wanted and BMW wouldn't do

what Land Rover wanted.

And so the alternative was to do a brand new car and it changed everything for them.

Yeah.

And it's turned JLR today as it is today into a company that generates billions in

profit a year.

Yeah.

And it's all been done.

I mean, obviously, there'd be many other factors, you know, creating the Range Rover

Sport, which, you know, and then the Evoke came along, but it all started here.

That was the car that turned the corner for Range Rover.

Gavin explains what BMW's input on the car was.

I mean, it was designed.

It was designed on the BMW's ownership, but delivered on full.

With a bunch of, you know, a big design team camped over in Munich from the West

Midlands.

Absolutely.

And they did it together.

Yeah.

And I think actually, you know, and Gavin was there during this process, so he does

know.

I think it was a fairly, I think it was probably a bit scratchy to begin with.

But when, because I think the Brits didn't think the BMW lot would understand

British heritage, and I think the BMW lot thought the Brits didn't know how to

build a car.

But actually, once they actually started working together, I think there was

genuinely an atmosphere of mutual respect.

And also, you know, you don't get a car that was as complete and as good as

that.

And also, so clearly an appropriate Range Rover product, unless you do have

those sorts of relationships working really well.

So it was quite a complicated gestation, wasn't it?

So Ford took over Land Rover during the car's development, BMW finished the

engineering of the car, but Ford launched it.

Yes, exactly.

As part of the Premier Automotive Group, which also owned, you know, Aston

Martin and Volvo and Lincoln and all sorts of things before that went wrong, too.

Too grand.

Not a lot of money, is it?

OK.

What have we got?

Ooh.

See, right.

Now, these are catching my eye at the moment, not that I'm about to buy one.

This is the BMW Z4.

So this is, well, the first of the Z4s with that crisp-angle flame

surfacing styling, which now looks really quite striking, I think.

It does.

Particularly in the right light.

It looks like a sort of show car.

This is a 2003 car with the 3.0-litre straight six.

It's up for 4,250 pounds.

It's done 86,500 miles.

It's had five owners.

It's a sort of silvery gray, gun-metally color, isn't it?

With the soft-top roof, red leather seats, apparently in good condition overall.

Is that sort of starting to appeal to you, or do you just look at it and think,

well, it's not a Boxster?

I think that's almost exactly what I think.

Which is, I've not said damn many fake praise, but there's no praise there at all.

I mean, I just, I never really liked the way they drove, unfortunately.

I just thought that they were soft.

They did slightly peculiar things when you drove them fast.

They never strike me as being driver's cars.

If you get a coupé version of it, I think at least they look really cool.

But no, I'm afraid you've literally put your finger on it.

I'd just rather be, to be honest with you, I think I'd probably rather be in an MX-5.

I mean, certainly, if I could spend four grand on a Z4 or an MX-5,

you'd think how lovely it.

You get a really nice MX-5 for four grand, and I'd just have more fun in it.

And if you're going to get a car like that that's 20-something years old,

and it's a 2-seater and it's convertible,

the point of having it is to go out and enjoy it.

I'd just enjoy an MX-5 more.

But I do have a bit of a soft stock for the coupé,

because I think they do look really cool.

I bet the engine is lovely.

It will be.

The engine's 260 horsepower.

Yeah, something like that.

Lovely three-litre, creamy, straight six.

But I think what it will also do is serve to highlight the deficiencies

in the rest of the car.

It's just not a real driver's car, I'm afraid.

OK.

Next one.

Now, I chose this specifically because

the lead image on this advert for this Ford Focus ST...

Is it going...are you tracked around the Nurburgring?

It is.

And I just thought that was quite a bold call.

Go buy this car.

I haven't, you know, never been thrashed to death

around track little in that one.

And I also just liked that there's an Alpine A110

in the background of this photo.

Coming down the hill.

God, I have to have a reason to get one of those in.

Yes.

So this is one of the five-cylinder cars,

five-cylinder turbo cars, two-and-a-half-litre.

This is an ST3, so quite a high-spec one.

It's a 2005 example manual in a sort of...

Well, it's that blue colour, isn't it?

Are they two-and-a-half-litres?

Yeah.

I thought they were two-threes.

But they might be wrong.

I might be wrong.

No, they're two-and-a-half.

OK.

I'm pretty sure they're two-and-a-half.

Excuse me if I'm wrong.

It doesn't matter.

No, I don't think you're wrong.

The ad might be wrong, but...

So this one, it's 125,000 miles,

and it's up for 5,100 pounds.

And one thing that, apart from the choice

of lead image for the advert,

I also quite admired this guy's honesty.

He says he's done a lot of upgrades,

a lot of tuning work to this car.

He says I've spent close to 15K on the car

and have all the receipts to prove it,

including a 5K engine rebuild.

And he's asking 5,100 pounds.

I'm going to sound like a real eel here.

I wouldn't buy it.

I know.

You just worry, don't you, about cars that have been...

Cars that have clearly spent, you know,

quite a long time on tracks and cars that have had,

you know, lots and lots of mods.

And it's not just the mods per se.

It's the reason behind the mods

and what he's wanted to do with the car

and the way that he's wanted to treat the car.

Because actually, I think if we were looking

at a lovely low-mile standard ST3,

I'd be quite excited.

Because I really quite like those.

It was a Volvo engine, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Five cylinders transversely mounted in the front.

Lovely noise.

A bit nose-heavy, but, you know, a proper,

a really good and thoroughly deserved

member of the, you know, the Fast Ford Club.

And, yeah.

I mean, I remember them really, really well.

I think we had a long-term road auto car

and I just...

I've just really fond memories, you know,

because they make that roar noise.

Oh, well done.

And they're handled well.

ST3 means there'll be a lot of equipment in them.

You know, great hand, great driver's cars.

And they kind of hide in the shadow of the RS's these days,

which I think is a bit unfair,

because they're much more usable and accessible than they are.

I just wouldn't get one that would be...

And maybe this is just me.

I guess if you were going to look at one

and you wanted to do track days and you think to yourself,

well, it's got all these goodies on it

and it's had an engine rebuild,

so if you were going to do that,

that's fine, but that would be the last reason

I'd want to call it that.

I'd just want to call it that to steam about the place in.

And that particular example

isn't the right car for doing that.

I think you'd have to be very...

And I think 5G is quite strong.

I think you'd have to be very familiar with

these Fast Fords

and with some of the tuning upgrades

that the chap has done,

because you would just want to know

that it's good quality stuff.

Because it would just be such a shame

if you bought this thing and it turned out

that all the upgrades were really quite poor.

It would be interesting to get the opinion of...

We have a contributor on the TI website

called Lewis Kingston, who knows all about this stuff.

He does. He knows all about upgrades and models.

And he might turn and go, whoa, whoa, whoa,

hang on guys, hang on guys.

Do you not realize what you got there?

Yeah, he'd look at that list of stuff.

He said you could take that stuff off and sell it for

and get most of your money back all by itself.

So he might think it's a really good shot.

A bit about, you know, a certain lack of knowledge

on our part of just what these

bits are and how much they mean and the

differences that they make.

But I'm just inherently a bit nervous

about cars that have been highly modded

and clearly been highly modded so that they...

For a reason, yeah.

For a reason, that reason being to, you know,

drive fast around and race tracks.

So I wouldn't buy that car, but the

fundamental car behind it,

going back to your point about talking a bit more

generally about the model,

is a really good car.

I liked them.

I think I just preferred the Renault sports

of the time and the Mark 5 VW

Golf GTI of the time.

Absolutely fair comment.

The Renault sports were a bit more

recreational.

They were certainly more fun to drive,

but not as nice to live with.

But yeah, I mean, the Mark 5 Golf is,

you know, is one of the great Golf GTIs.

What would I rather have?

I think really hard about getting the focus

and then get the Golf.

I'd love one of those Golfs.

Yeah.

I really enjoyed it.

Me too.

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All right, let's move it on, then.

Ah, so, another...

You're just trying to get me into trouble, aren't you?

Because we have, we know someone who is not unconnected with the intercooler project who

has one of these.

There's another opportunity if you get yourself in trouble later on as well, you'll be pleased

to hear.

Excellent.

So this is a Honda S2000, it's a 2003 car, it's done 97,500 miles and it's up for

eight and a half grand, a little bit less than eight and a half grand.

Now it seems that there's a real spread of values when we're talking about S2000s.

Good ones can be more than double the price, much more than double the price of this one.

I think you could probably spend 20 grand on a S2000.

Do you think they're becoming a bit, I have to say this word carefully, culty?

What do you think there's a sort of movement around them and cherished ones?

I don't know.

But if there are...

I think they probably are.

Because I think, okay the first thing to say about them is they are great opinion

splitters aren't they?

Yeah.

There's a great divide between those who just think they are brilliant, particularly

because of that extraordinary engine that they have and those who probably like me

just find the drawbacks in things like the steering and the driving position and some

of the things that they used to do when you really started to hustle them, did just

compromise the car sufficiently for, yet again, just not to make sufficient sense

as an alternative to a Boxster.

Maybe we'll be having this conversation quite a lot over the next half an hour or so, good

but not as good as the equivalent Porsche.

I don't know.

I mean they are...

But then again, when we drove those cars, we being the road test at the time, I think

the consensus was it's an amazing engine fitted into a fairly flawed car.

But then we were driving them in a certain way and dispensing advice on the basis of should

people buy this as a new car, not as a classic, not as a pure recreation maybe to have as

part of a multi-car collection.

So I think the terms of reference are quite different.

I often think to myself, one of the ways looking at this, somebody said to you, here's

one of these, do you want to have a go?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And also, you know, the other things, I mean, the things that probably annoyed me most about

it was the driving position, that very much sort of sat-on, perched feel.

Yeah, it sits too high, didn't you?

But I'm 6'4".

Yeah.

And if you were, I don't know, 5'8", you would feel that much less.

And you're probably not going to be skidding it about in quite the same way that we

were doing 20 years ago.

And that engine is still with 239 horsepower from a 2-litre of 8,000 revs.

Close to 9, yeah.

Close to 9.

And when that...

And a great gear shift.

And when that VTEC changed the cam profiles and it really kicked in at the top end.

I mean, wow.

Wow.

What was the handling?

Because they had a reputation for being quite spiky.

Yeah, they were.

Yeah.

I mean, that was certainly my, you know, you would suddenly get, you know, large amounts

of, I wouldn't say uncontrollable oversteer, but, you know, you could suddenly find yourself

busier than you'd want to be, which is, you know, not ever optimal in something designed

to go on the public road.

I wouldn't say they were sort of dangerous or anything else, but, you know, you needed

to be a bit careful with them in a way that you wouldn't have needed to be in a Porsche.

It's just a sort of nicely Honda wave doing things though, isn't it, with the VTEC

engine spinning to the heavens, a great gear shift.

I really like the idea of them, but the reality never quite lived up to it for

me.

Others feel differently about it.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's look at the next one.

Of course, there had to be one of these.

That's a very dark blue, isn't it, a Bentley Continental GT.

Yes.

So, this is a 2004 car, so a pretty early one.

That's a very early car.

Yeah, a 6-liter W12 engine, 53,000 miles.

This one's up for 11,200 pounds.

Now, I chose this one.

I added this one to this little game because you had to go in one fairly recently.

Yes, I drove them all.

You drove them all?

I drove all four generations of them.

Well, yeah, two generations with two cars in each generation, one being a facelift version

of the other.

So, this is the first of the first.

I mean, you know, so they delivered 2004, I think they may have delivered a hand

for the cars in 2003, but 2004 was actually the first year proper production.

And they feel quite old now.

Yeah.

And the astonishing thing about these cars is just how quickly and quietly they were developed.

And if you go and drive a 2008 car, which would have had all the modifications that

came when our friend Dr. Uli Aikor came on as the head of engineering.

They are very, very different cars.

And much more so, I think, than people generally think, because they still look pretty much

the same, but they didn't drive the same.

So a load, for instance, as an example, when they did the GTC, the convertible,

which was never originally part of the product plan, as you always do with these things,

you know, you have to introduce a whole lot of strengthening materials to shore up the

chassis and to replace some of the rigidity that you lose when you chop the roof off.

But then they just left them there.

So the later coupes were massively more torsionally rigid than this car will be.

And the whole, those cars, you only have to go to like three or four years out to

get a very different driving experience.

And yeah, so I'd love the idea of an early continental, but I think if you go this early,

you know, it's a nice old thing.

It will be quite well built and, you know, and also, you know, be able to, you know,

if it's being advertised for 11-2, you know, I don't know what kind of deal they would take,

but you could have, you know, the opportunity to go around the place in a great looking

550 horsepower, 200 mile an hour Bentley for an initial outlay of not much more than 10 grand.

That's tempting.

But I think if you drove that and you drove one, you know, the same car but built four years later,

I think you would be amazed at how different two visually similar cars can actually be to drive.

Do you know much about the reality of running one of these cars?

They're pretty good.

Yeah.

They are pretty good.

I mean, you know, it's a 20-year-old Bentley.

So, you know, it's not going to be, you know, Ford Fiesta running costs.

But you never hear horror stories about them.

You never hear, oh, God, the bottom falls out of the engine or the gearbox explodes or the back axle.

You never hear those stories.

You don't hear stories about terrible crew.

I mean, okay, so one story I can tell you.

I'll be quick because I think I mentioned this on some previous podcast,

but we were doing a triple test somewhere

and we had a Gallardo Lamborghini and we had an Aston DB9 and we had a Continental GT.

And the Gallardo and the Aston turned up and the Continental GT didn't.

And so I rang up the Gallardo supplying it and said, where's the car?

And they were, oh, terribly sorry, I just sold it.

And I just thought to myself, well, that's the end of this story,

unless we can get another one.

So I said, you need to send another car down because this car was meant to be here and you've let us down.

And they said, well, we haven't got one.

We literally don't have one at all.

He said, no, we literally don't have one at all,

apart from one that's just been dropped off around the back.

It's absolutely filthy.

It's all the wheels have been curbed.

We haven't even looked at it.

It's done a bazillion miles and it's a complete dog.

And I said, send that.

And the car came down and it felt so much better built than the Lamborghini or the Aston.

It just felt, wow.

And then this car, which had been totally used and abused all its life,

still felt better built than those two rivals 20 years ago or so.

I think that they were really properly put together.

But even so, these cars are 20 years old and bits wear out.

That's just wear and tear.

Wheel bearings and who knows what else and electric window motors and all sorts of things.

So don't just think that because it was put together properly 20 years ago

that it'll still drive like a new car now and cost the same to maintain.

It won't, but you don't hear horror stories.

But there's also a good supply of bits, isn't there?

Absolutely.

Oh, through Flying Spares?

Yes.

Great name by the way.

Flying Spares, yeah.

This is a company which I went to see, which I've also talked about in this podcast before.

And they are, I mean, they will supply you everything from a completely reconditioned engine

to an electric window motor to go on their website and dial it up.

And they have a great reputation.

And I've been to see, you know, they're now in some massive facility

having beaten a fairly sort of ramshackle place before.

And yeah, so you're not going to have to worry about, you know,

if you, you know, ding a wheel or crack a bump or you're not going to wonder

where you're going to get that bit from because there are loads of them.

Because I mean, these are cars which Bentley made at great volume.

Yeah.

You know, thousands and thousands of thousands of them.

And they're durable and they're out there.

And so the part supply is terrific and not that expensive.

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All right, let's have another one.

I mean, there had to be one, didn't there?

But of course.

This is a Porsche 911.

It's a 996 Carrera.

It's a facelift one from 2003.

It's a manual coupe with 89,000 miles.

It's up for £17,500.

Get to the important bit.

What's the important bit?

The engine.

Well, talk about yourself.

Has it been done?

What do we know about?

The advert does not specifically say that the engine hasn't been done.

That means it hasn't.

Yeah.

So, you know, I think it's a brave choice.

I really like the idea of a 996,

particularly the second generation car,

which was a big improvement on the original.

But as we know, it wasn't until the second generation of the 997

that the engine issues that came with these cars went away.

And so I would want a proper health check.

I mean, some people buy these cars and pay a lot less for them

because the engines haven't been done.

And, you know, and they go into it completely clear-eyed.

And, you know, they do their due diligence

and they, you know, find out if there's been any bore score

or anything else like that.

And they do all the checks that you can do.

And then they just take a view and they think, well, you know,

if it goes, it goes.

And if it doesn't, whoopee.

But I paid a lot less for the car in the meantime.

It says so much more about me.

I don't like being nervous about cars.

I don't like getting into a car and thinking,

you know, is it going to let me down?

What's that sound?

What's that light?

Is this thing going to be a money pit?

I just, I just, you know, I'm just not that.

I mean, so many people are just so much more relaxed

about these sorts of things than me.

Yeah.

But I'm just not that way.

So I wouldn't buy that car,

which may say more about me than the car.

I think there are others will.

And, you know, and it's, you know,

it's a great deal of really pretty good Porsche

with not very much large amount of money.

It looks good, doesn't it?

And it's also, it's the right car.

It's a rear drive.

It's manual.

It's a coupe.

All those boxes are ticked.

I mean, you might take a view

that if the car turned out to be in really good condition,

how many miles has it done?

89,000.

89,000, which isn't much for one of those.

No.

Maybe you just do the engine.

Yeah.

Yeah, run it, run it until the engine goes.

Run it until the engine goes.

Then do the engine

and just have a really, really good car.

I mean, I really like the idea of it.

So I've only driven a few 996s,

certainly Carreras,

and the thing that I would most want to guard against

is making sure that the car I bought had a good chassis.

By that, I mean the dampers were in good order.

The bushes were in good order.

I mean, of course, you can pay to have all that stuff replaced.

But I've driven a couple that just felt loose and baggy.

Baggy.

And the moment my 996 or any 911 felt baggy,

I'll just stop enjoying it.

I need it to feel tight as a drum.

So you need to factor that into it,

at least it's something which can be dealt with reasonably.

Yeah, it's not going to break the bag, is it?

And so you can get back.

It's not like you're engine going back.

No.

And the other thing would be people,

because people, when they talk about 996s,

the conversation is usually,

oh, the quality took a dive over the 993

and they got these issues.

And that's why they are the poor relation of the 911 family.

People forget that they are the lightest 911s

of the modern generation.

I mean, far lighter than a 993 that came before.

And everything since then has put on weight.

And they do have a nimbleness about them,

which I found really, really lovely.

And those engines, when they're working properly,

people are sniffy about them because they're water cooled

where their predecessors were air cooled.

They're really good.

And I bet you if you went and drove that car today,

you think, blimey, this is fast.

Yeah.

You think it was really quick.

It would be enough, wouldn't it?

It would be enough.

I do like the sound of that.

They have their issues.

They have reputation, but I feel quite drawn to that.

Ooh.

I mean, that is a great angle, isn't it,

for an Aston Martin DB9?

It is.

That sort of slightly raised front three quarters.

That car just looks stunning.

What year is it?

It's a 2005.

So another early car.

Yeah.

An auto.

It's done 38,000 miles.

And it's a Coupe.

And they're asking just under 32 grand for it.

You know, it's a beautiful V12 Aston Martin Coupe

for the price of what would you pay 30 grand for these days?

An electric Corsa.

Tempting, isn't it?

It looks great in that silver.

Actually, that is a superb looking car.

It is.

I think it's getting prettier.

Yeah.

I drove one of these recently, and it was pretty good.

Yeah, they're nice.

They are nice things.

I mean, the manuals are incredibly rare, aren't they?

Yeah.

And, you know, the automatic.

I mean, they've got paddles, haven't they?

I think so.

Yeah, they must do.

But you have to be quite careful with them.

Take a bit of time there for it.

So, you know, V12 Aston Martin, great noise.

Again, you don't really hear terrible stories about them,

or maybe I just haven't heard them.

Yeah, I mean, as an alternative to...

I mean, what would it be?

A 612 Scalietti?

I'd so much rather have this.

Would you?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I don't think it would be an early morning hoon

across the mountain kind of car.

No.

That's a good question.

Okay, so you buy this car, what do you do with this?

I think it's all swanning around, isn't it?

It's not really also.

It's not really in perhaps the same way

as the continental GT might be,

sort of off across Europe car.

Not quite, I don't think.

Not quite.

Well, yeah, I'm sure you could, but...

I think it's a sort of high days and holidays,

you know, going against your friends

in the North or wherever.

Just a lovely way to do a sort of medium length journey.

Don't get a Volante.

No, it'll wobble about.

It'll wobble about and it really does spoil the car a lot.

But for £30,000 or a little bit more than £30,000.

And by no, how many miles?

38,000.

She actually, now that's a really good mileage.

In 20 years.

Yeah, it's been used.

Exactly.

It's not, well, okay, so you need to find out

if it did 38,000 miles in its first two years

and had been parked ever since.

You want to know the distribution of those miles.

Exactly, exactly.

So you need to look at the MOT certificates

and everything else that will go with it.

But if it's just done a couple of thousand miles a year

and it's, do we know how many owners it's had?

It's had three owners.

That's not many.

Not many in 20 years, is it?

No, it's not.

I mean, that could actually be a really quite tempting car.

I mean, not for me because it's just not quite,

to me it's a little bit betwixt in between

because if I wanted a long-distance tourer,

I'd get something more Bentley-ish enough.

If I wanted something more exciting,

I'd get something more exciting.

But if, you know, if you just wanted,

I mean, sorry, they're going to be massively patronizing now,

but it's a kind of retirement special, isn't it?

It is, I think, yeah.

You know, you come to the end of the,

you know, the kids are growing and gone.

Your financial out-going is much reduced.

You know, you've worked hard all your life

and you've always fancied only in Aston Martin.

Game on.

Yeah, fantastic.

Brilliant.

And you really enjoy it.

Yeah.

Okay, let's keep it moving.

There you go.

This is where you can talk yourself in trouble

with our friend.

This is a bright yellow.

Do you think, is that a giallo fly?

Is that what they call it?

I thought giallo fly was a Ferrari colour.

Was it?

I don't know.

Maybe it isn't.

I mean, it looks like it,

but it's just sat on a screen.

It's quite difficult to see.

Oh, giallo Midas.

Okay.

So it's a pearly yellow.

This is a Lamborghini giallo.

This is a 2004 car.

It's a manual.

Yeah.

Oh, that's good.

46,000 miles.

Yeah.

It's up for a whisker under 70,000 pounds.

So it's a fair amount of money, isn't it really?

I think they look really cool.

I always like the look of the giallo.

That sort of chisel.

I'd much prefer the hurricane appearance.

No, no.

You think it looks better looking than a hurricane?

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely not.

Seriously?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

I really like the chisel to the squared off.

To the death you're right to be wrong about this.

Fine.

I mean, I think it's a great looking car.

V10 four-wheel drive.

It's all the money though, isn't it?

Yeah.

70,000.

I don't really know what that means in giallo world.

I'm sure you can get one for less.

But I don't know.

I mean, that's what kind of Cayman are you getting for 70 grand?

A nice S with a few bits?

Well, maybe a bit more than that.

Okay.

And this is a completely different level of performance.

Yeah.

Was it 550 horsepower or something?

Something like that.

Yeah.

I don't know what it is about giardos.

They are really good cars, particularly the manuals.

They sound fantastic.

The gear shift is really good.

I've just never really...

It's not doing anything for you, this one, is it?

I've just never really craved them.

I don't really know why.

They were made in very large quantities.

Well, that doesn't necessarily matter very much.

But if I had 70,000 pounds to spend on a car like that,

I don't think I'd buy that car.

And it's strange because I don't think that there's anything particularly wrong with them.

I think the interiors look pretty old now,

and there's lots of Audi bits lurking about,

which might serve to annoy you.

But, you know, I don't know if there's an image thing with it.

I'm not really sure, but it's just maybe I need to go and drive one.

I don't know if you know anyone who's got one.

You probably wouldn't let me drive it after this.

Let's hope he's listening.

But it would be a really interesting exercise

because the truth is I really haven't driven one.

I mean, probably since that one that I drove on that triple test all those years ago.

So maybe I would try one now.

And I think, actually, do you know what?

This is really, really enticing.

But I've never, you know, if I saw a guy that parked on the street,

I'd never sort of crossed the road to go and have a look at it.

Really?

No, I really wouldn't.

Gosh, interesting.

I would.

To me, they're just not as special as some other Lamborghinis.

To be honest, though, for less than half that,

you could get probably quite a nice R8.

Yeah, well.

That would be the things to do with you.

Except the person we're talking about had one of those and he sold it.

Yeah.

So what do we know?

Okay.

Right.

I think we're on to the last one.

Okay.

Wow.

Oh, wow.

So people just listening to this may be wondering why all these noises are going out.

This is a Nissan Skyline GT-R.

Money.

An R33.

It's a 1997.

I don't know how this one snuck in.

It's not an early 2000s car at all.

It's a 97 car, but we'll go with it.

It's done just under 40,000 miles.

And they're asking 116,000 pounds for it.

I mean, what can I say?

So you said the S2000 has gone a bit culty.

I mean, these are fully culty now, aren't they?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Massively.

And hence the price.

Yeah.

Hence the price.

I mean, I find that price absolutely staggering.

If you could say to me before we came on,

what would you pay?

What do you think you paid for a 1997 Skyline?

I would have gone, I don't know.

Probably half that.

Yeah.

50 grand or something.

Yeah.

And I'm not sure that it would even be worth that to me.

But these cars, as you say, they have become massively popular

in a very small sector of society.

And I presume this is a really, really good one, isn't it?

Well, I guess so.

So there's a real spread when it comes to Skyline GT-R values.

And I suspect what's happening is that the original ones,

the untouched ones are becoming very sought after.

And they're extremely expensive.

Yeah.

What do we know about this one?

Well, let's have a look.

So, I mean, by the look of that, it's had quite a lot of work.

It's had a 2.9-litre forged billet crankshaft.

So it's got a new block.

It's forged piston.

So a new block has got a different engine.

Yeah.

So this is not a standard car.

It's got new turbos, full exhaust system.

So this is a very, very heavily-uprated one.

So this is, I think there's a little sort of car

that you could have a lot of enjoyment with

if you're a particular person, because what you would do

is the car itself is almost a means to an end,

because what it is, it is an introduction into a world,

isn't it?

Because you could turn up anywhere where skyline people congregate

in that, and it's just instant credibility, isn't it?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

It's proper person passing.

And it's access to that world, which I suspect is probably

what lies behind at least part of that price.

And I think that as someone who has been involved

in various sort of slightly cliquey worlds,

particularly in my case, the sort of historic racing world,

turning up somewhere with something that really fits in,

it does break down barriers, it does give you sort of respect

and people will take an interest in a way

that if you just turned up in anything that it wouldn't.

So I think that's what this is about.

And I think actually, although I would never, ever, ever,

because I just think to myself, would I enjoy driving it

$115,950 worth enough?

And I just wouldn't.

But actually, I think that's only actually a small part

of this particular, of this particular puzzle.

And I think it's more about what it lets you do,

what access it gives you, that is the core part of this appeal.

And I think that if you are really into, you know,

slightly strange, niche Japanese performance machinery,

I think it's absolutely great.

And just because it's not my world,

doesn't mean I would anyway, I would ever seek to sort of

denigrate those for whom it is.

And I mean, it looks lovely, doesn't it?

It does look cool.

Yeah.

What would a, you know, a standard, really good condition

R33 GT-R be like to drive now, do you think?

I always found them, I mean, very exciting,

exhilarating, quite brutal.

I always just used to find them in the same way that,

you know, I've frankly found all the GT-Rs that I've driven.

I just found them, they kind of bludgeon their way.

Sledgehammer cars.

Exactly.

They're not precision instruments.

No, no.

They're not like, I mean, they're kind of like

the opposite of a Lotus Elise.

You know, both really good for entirely different reasons

and getting even one place to another.

And I've just always preferred that, you know,

the delicacy and the feel.

But, you know, that's just me.

And I know that an awful lot of people, they love

the engineering and the technology and everything else

that goes into those cars and the way that they look.

And, you know, and if you're one of them, good on you.

Yeah.

Fine.

All right.

Well, that's the last one.

So that was good.

That was fun.

I think we, what do we need to do next time?

Yeah, we want to do a little bit of an early era and dig out

10 completely random cars and naturally.

Quite 10 completely random mid-1960s.

After a mayors, we'll do quite nicely.

Do you want to do that next time?

Yes, I do.

I didn't think anyone would listen to this one,

but would want me to.

So maybe not.

Okay.

But if anybody has any ideas, we'll love to hear them.

We've done this a few times, and I think we've,

because I've done them, I've sort of focused around

you need to look all the way back to the 70s, perhaps the 60s as well, and mix it up a little bit.

Or maybe instead of defining by era, we define by type.

Yeah, we can do that.

And so we'll just have, I don't know, mid-engine cars or hot hatchbacks or whatever,

and then we'll just go all the way through.

Okay. Okay.

Good call. Well, listen, there's just enough time to remind you all that as a podcast listener,

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Thanks ever so much for listening, and we'll be back again next week.

See you then.

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Bargain hunting for early 2000s enthusiast cars #272

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