CarCast+Edmunds - 2025 wrap up and thoughts on great events, vehicles and more.

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Hello, welcome to the Evans Carcass podcast. I'm not the moderator Deandre here with Alistair Weaver.

I think it's going to be our last show together for the year. I've got a little bit more content to roll out.

So, you know, case you guys get bored and you want some, you're just craving some carcass content, some epic discussion. I've got some content to put out there.

But the last episode with Goldberg is out. The last episode with us is going to be this one until the beginning of January.

So, we thought maybe we would just reflect on a little bit of the state of the industry, some things we like, some things we thought were kind of underwhelming maybe.

Some events we thought that were good.

We thought we'd do something really original and have an end-of-year review.

There's nobody else is doing that. Nobody else thought of it. So, we thought we would.

Yeah, well, we didn't do a gift guide or something like that, right? We just did.

Although, you could go to the Evans store and you could buy one of those swanky shirts or hoodies or a nice jacket.

Yeah, you could go to the YouTube store and buy yourself a, you know, if you're looking for a late Christmas present, I don't know.

What is this going out? Yeah, you could still probably still get one in time for Christmas. And if not, you could always say you got lost in the post.

So, get yourself an Edmunds you drags hoodie or a t-shirt or whatever it might be.

Yes, definitely do that.

The one thing that came up though a bit of news was the statement from Ford.

Saying, listen, Ford, you know, we're writing down 19 and a half billion dollars.

Evie didn't quite go the way we hoped.

10 and a half billion dollars. I mean, thank God.

And our massive factory we've been putting together that was going to be the new Evie plant is now going to be a shared like truck plant.

And there's going to be a few layoffs and there's going to be halting of a few things.

And what does that mean overall? We know Jim Farley's been saying for a while now, large Evie vehicles, expensive vehicles are not the way to go.

We need a modular platform, something we can build multiple vehicles out of, you know, sort of that Evie skateboard, if you will, that battery with electric motors and suspension attached.

And maybe we shorten it, we make a mini truck, maybe we make it longer, we make an SUV out of it, but just something to share that cost.

The result of that has been the end of the current state of the Ford Lightling.

Like, you know, we knew when they halted production on it, it seemed, you know, like a gloomy end there.

It's an issue. I think that was the, besides the write down and all the rest of it, there is the question of what was happening with the lightning, you know, was the big headline from that, that announcement.

I think we've known for some time that that halted production, they were unlikely to restart production, they've got a lot of stock.

So there is a 26 model year. So, you know, there's a question mark now about, you know, is there a fire sale of that stock?

So that's, you know, that's the question mark, but it was, it is interesting because if you go back, you know, the launch of the lightning and I was as there, it was the brave new dawn.

If you remember initially, orders went through the roof. There was a lot of excitement around it.

This was seen as kind of a whole new era for Ford. It was a working truck that was electric.

And, you know, I wouldn't say that there's kind of egg on the face. I think it's just reacting to a reality of the market that, you know, there's been this backpedaling.

And it's not just, it's not just Ford. I mean, we've talked about Volvo, we've talked about Porsche.

I mean, everybody is backpedaling furiously at vast expense to say, you know, Europe in the last week is just rolled back the EV requirements.

So now they're keeping gascars for longer. It's extraordinary how fast this has happened, how much money people are losing.

And of course, now the lightning, this sort of great hope for the future, they're now going to turn into a range extender, which I think is really interesting.

I think that's a great idea. That's kind of what Ram was going to do. They said we have gas engine trucks and our diesel trucks.

We're going to do an electric truck and we're going to do this range extender electric truck. And then they go, well, forget the electric truck.

Let's just do the range extender version. And it's interesting to me. I think probably not a bad idea, not necessarily going in the wrong direction.

The question is going to be, do they follow Ram and jam a big engine into the hood and get rid of the front and carry around that weight?

Or do they do more something like what we understand scout is going to do with like a smaller, just onboard generator, something tucked up underneath the vehicle?

You know, something along the lines of that.

My understanding is it will be, I think the challenge is with a big truck like that has a big towing capacity.

You should have seen how these things work. So basically you've got an engine as the generator, which charges the battery.

So the engine does not in any way drive the wheels. And this is what Ford has said. It's what Stellantis is working on with the Ram.

And it's also what scout is doing with the leisure trucks. The problem is when you're towing this much and I was talking to some of the engineers about this.

The reality is you need a very powerful generator because if you're towing a speedboat or something with your truck, you're burning jewels that quickly that you have to have a big generator to keep the batch charged.

So it's not like a little BMW i3 where you can have a 500cc engine that kind of, you know, tops it up now and again.

This is something that's actually, you know, there's always a fight between the engine and the, you know, can the engine charge the battery as fast as it's been discharged by towing this, you know, mobile home or something.

So that's the, that's the thing. So you will lose the front, which of course was the big deal of the of the lightning was actually super useful on the lightning.

So I don't know. I mean, it makes much more sense for the market. You still have to ask the question. Once you've got a range extender.

You know, do you just buy the six cylinder or the V8? I mean, you know, you've got it. So I mean, so yeah.

But here's the thing on that is if it's still a plug in electric vehicle, just happens to have a range extender.

Like in my case, the way I use my truck, I wouldn't have to use that gas engine in theory until I, you know, I occasionally go down to like San Diego, you know,

like a total wine event for Bravago. I'm doing those events. It's not my plug. I'm actually going to hit that fly. I'm hit that harder.

But I don't, I don't tell a lot and only on the longer trips. Like we were talking the other days. Like let's drive out to Vegas.

You know, I would like the range extender for that, but I don't necessarily need it all the time. So if I can plug it in and not use that engine,

honestly, not use that engine, you know, once every three months. Now there's probably some something with the engine where it's like, oh, I don't want to dry out.

I don't want to drive seals. It fires itself up every once in a while and keeps itself lubricated and it probably has to be smart in that capacity to go.

You can't just keep it off for a year. Then it fires up and it's just metal grinding on metal until the oil goes through it.

Going back to the week, when we first moved to America, we had a BMW i3, which was a good car, but we like to car and this thing had a range. I want to say about 120 miles.

But it had we bought the range extender in version. So it had this little five CC engine. And at the time my wife was literally commuting about 100 miles a day.

The battery was almost been drained every day, but you had the confidence it had this engine going, you know, they're in case you needed it.

Every night came home plugged it in, filled it back up and this kept going day after day.

And actually what the BMW did, which I guess what these will do to is they act, you know, she was going down the 405 one day and she ran me up and said the car's making this awful noise.

You know, everything's, but I realize what happened is it turned the engine on because it won't allow it to go every six weeks or something.

It fires it up and just turns over to keep all the lubricants good and all the rest of it.

So I'm sure they'll have a something I get it that use case, particularly for more kind of urban people or people got you know charging infrastructure does sort of make sense.

I guess it's all ultimately it's all going to be how much is it going to cost and how much is it going to cost to run.

Right. So here's here's the other thing is we we're seeing all the news of going, hey, we're changing direction.

We're not going to do an EV or we're killing an F 150 lightning EV.

Not all of it is just comes down to is it selling well or not because the it has to do with cost and and I just don't think these these car companies have figured out a way with their suppliers to bring that cost down.

The Ford F 150 lightning selling over 20,000 25,000 a year. I think they've already sold 30 over 30,000 this year and we're not done.

You know another month left they could sell I don't know 35,000 of that truck. If you think about it, if you're a car manufacturer other than like a CRV or a camera or something like 30,000 units is a pretty solid number of units sold.

It is, but at what I mean the problem with the. They just can't make money out of it, you know, they sell what 600, 500, 600,000 F 150 is in that same time period, the gas cars. So you got to give it back context.

So why are you bothering with 30,000 units over here when you're selling 600,000 over here.

But the other thing is is just the cost. Yes, they can shift 30,000 units, but at what price and is anybody making money? I mean, Hyundai's cut the price of the only five to 35 grand.

Are they making money on a 35 grand ionic five almost certainly not the way you know so that I think there's two big things well three big things driving the market.

This was actually on my year in new view list of biggest impacts. I think there's three things.

The infrastructure is not there yet and the problem with all of this rowback means that the infrastructure is not going to get a lot better for a while.

So that's a problem.

Manufacturers haven't worked out how to get the cost down sufficiently so they can't sell them profitably.

So that's a huge problem.

And then you've got all the politics and the noise around it.

So, you know, there's not all the incentives physically have gone away, but there's also become this kind of what my mind is kind of ludicrous stigma around electric vehicles that there's somehow, you know.

You have to be a kind of, you know, of a certain political persuasion to drive which I can kind of slightly nonsense.

But that's that seems to and then of course the other thing you've got to layer on top of this is is the tariffs.

And I'm not sure that we've really seen the full impact of tariffs at times prices have gone up.

There's a whole bunch of EVs that are made overseas and a lot of the battery technology and everything else made overseas, which and particularly if it's coming from China.

You know, the tariffs are an impact.

So you've just created an environment that you've got a product that is actually pretty good, but doesn't have the infrastructure to support it or the price that people don't want to pay.

Yeah.

And I agree, like how many units you have to sell to justify the cost because they can't bring the cost down.

If you look at Mustang and Corvette, they've sold 40, 42, 44,000 units, you know, last year.

Not that much more than what the lightning sold. I don't know where we are with Silverado. I don't know if that's something at all.

Well, I mean, the big one right the big that the GM things interesting because now they are the they're left hold in the baby.

Yeah.

And I mean, the F-150 lightning, as you know, because you've got one is basically an F-150 with a battery pack in the latter frame chassis.

Yeah, really. I mean, I simplify, but it is the GMs are completely ground up electric vehicles, which means they're not as compromised, but also means they're stuck with it.

So the Hummer, the GMCC era, the Silverado EV.

Cadillac escalade.

But they were able to take that platform and share across all of their large trucks and SUVs where Ford didn't do that.

They even backtracked on that a while ago.

They had a partnership with Rivian, they're going to do a Lincoln navigators and electric Lincoln's and now they're just backtracking on all of that.

If you want something that's electric with a range extender, the navigator is what you want.

See, I went to, I remember calling not this year before when they unveiled the updated Lincoln navigator.

And I was like, you're doing a hybrid? Well, we'll probably do one in due course, right?

But no, even it's just like, honestly, we do all the customers, you know, go to the customer clinic and ask questions.

Nobody even cares about hybrid.

So to get people all the way from a hybrid from a three and a half liter V6 to an EV, it's just, you know, especially with all the infrastructure.

So I don't know what's going to happen.

And we've just done a big piece of analysis.

Jessica, we've had on the show before.

It's just a great piece of analysis.

And it's all about, you know, where's the market for next year?

We think 16 and a bit million cars, but also in that within, you know, where's the EV market?

It's just like a six percent or something.

You know, GM reckoning will dip and then come back strong.

Other people are not so sure.

Yeah, Porsche is not sure because they can't make up their mind on the posture.

Boxer and Cayman, if they're going to reengineer that to take gas engines.

I mean, I was told categorically by somebody pretty senior at Porsche that.

That doesn't work.

The years ago is like, basically, no, you know, if you're being a pure sports car, you do EV or you do gas,

you can't do this kind of like, you know, macano kit where you sort of bolt different bits on.

Right. You can't, you can't cut up, you can't design a boxer or Cayman from the ground up to be EV

and then cut it up to put a gas engine in it.

Well, it seems like that's what they potentially are going to do.

That sounds like what they want to do, but look, if you said,

Solanthus is doing it with the Dodge Charger.

I go, okay, because it's kind of a big heavy muscle car to begin with.

Yeah.

But you're talking about Porsche or Porsche's entire brand is on peak performance.

Like squeeze every little ounce out of it, cutting weight, being the most efficient,

like just everything they can to give you the most performance car.

They're racing cars don't have metal emblems, they have stickers on them,

because they want to be that guy, right? They want to be that company, right?

So for them to go, hey, engineers, here's an EV, it's a skateboard of a platform with a load bearing battery

and so you replace it with like, I don't know, a carbon fiber or aluminum panel

and then you cut the back half off, see if you can shove an engine in it.

They're going to go, I don't want to, I don't want to do that.

Why don't we just design another car, you know?

But the cost of that is so particular, if they're not then sharing it across different companies

within the Volkswagen group or even with insurance.

So, I mean, if you just take the battery as an example, I mean, I haven't seen the new box to EV yet,

but basically the principle similar that the batteries go underneath the seats

and then you'll have a motor either end.

Yeah.

So it's pretty, pretty simple.

Or already, if you're going to put the, you know, what you're going to do with the fact

your seats are already too high because you now got this, the battery is now,

it doesn't matter so much in an EV because it means that the mass is really low.

So from a riding handling perspective, that's okay.

But if you're going to turn it into a gas car, you've now got your seats high

and what you're going to do with that chunk of space below your seats,

all you've done now is raise the H-point, sitting higher, central gravity's gone up,

all the things that you don't want in a sports car.

So it's super difficult.

I mean, Porsche's got themselves into a mess, Volvo's in a mess.

You know, it's tough to see how everybody kind of navigates the way out of it.

Even Tesla, I've got on my list of kind of shocks of the year, the model Y standard,

I went down to the Gigafactory in Texas.

It was really shocking that car because Tesla has always been about value

and about this Tesla feel.

And then you get into this vehicle, it's like, we got rid of that suspension,

and we got rid of this, and we got rid of that.

And we took out the glass roof, but we haven't taken out the glass roof.

We've got a bit of fabric out of the glass roof.

And it was like, this is just like, this is completely non-Tesla

in the way that they've gone about it.

So it doesn't end up being a bad car, but it's definitely not a Tesla

as we came to understand them.

You know, and what you were saying before about the issue of tariffs.

So the latest news on that is the extra cost of tariffs

is now going to be added to the destination and delivery charge.

Now, the issue with that is it allows the car companies to advertise a price

that doesn't include the tariffs.

It's like getting your hotel room in Vegas.

And then when you check in, they go, there's a $50 per night resort feed

on top of your nuts.

Like, we don't Wi-Fi.

Right.

Yeah.

Or the Wi-Fi is extra or something like that.

You know, they're like, you can advertise all day long.

Come to Vegas, we've got room specials, you know, two for one buffet

and also $199 a night.

But it's $50 a night for the resort fee and $45 to park your car.

Well, that's kind of what we're going to go, hey, like,

there's this new EV coming in, and it's $39,995.

You're like, okay, but it is from overseas.

And you're not just looking at a $1,500 or $1,800 destination delivery charge.

You could be looking at, you know, $3,000 or more on top of that.

So it's going to be a significant change.

Like, you're going to have this sticker shock of, I don't know, in some cases,

10% or more of the sticker price as your destination and delivery fee.

You know, it's going to be a lot.

Well, Edmunds, we took a decision a long time ago, before my time,

that we quote every price on our main model page, we quote,

include a destination because what we're saying, well, you can't avoid that.

Yeah. So like, this is the price of the car before, you know,

any negotiation or discount.

So we just feel like it's the most first way to do it.

So we'll have to follow the same thing.

I know Volkswagen, we're looking at Volkswagen and sort of introduced a line that said,

tariff costs, but then it wasn't, this is the first time I've actually heard this.

So you're putting it, you're almost like you're taking it off the bottom line,

isn't it? You kind of bear it, you know, you're sort of, it's like the extraordinary cost

that you can take off the balance sheet.

So interesting.

But yeah, you're right. You've got it.

That's going to, that's going to wind a lot of people up.

So it will. And then of course, that's like,

then what do the car companies do on certain incentives to bake that into your,

your lease price, if you want to lease?

Yeah, you know,

but then you're back into the game of all the only reason they sell is because

they've incentivized it, therefore they don't make any money in getting back into

this vicious circle.

Right.

I just think, I just think like, you know,

the days of like driving down the 405 and going,

oh, this grabbed this new EV.

You can lease this thing for, you know, $199 a month.

But then when you actually call and they go, that's only if you pay everything up front,

the tariff fee, the destination fee, the down pay.

If you have 8,000 down, we'll get you into the car.

But if you want us to roll that into the lease price,

you're at $599 a month, right?

Because you have a $10,000 tariff in destination fee.

We have a page on Edmonds, which is always really quite interesting.

It's quite called Hidden Gems.

So if you just Google Edmonds Gems,

and it brings up, it brings up, it depending on where you are,

it's geotagged to where you are in the country,

what deals are available in your state and stuff.

But sometimes from the deals,

it's like they're trying to shift inventory or something extraordinary,

like like on Wranglers or even things like the coma.

Yeah.

And that's where we try and build in all those hidden costs.

So you get to kind of get a real sense of value.

Well, that's a good point, though.

Because that's going to be the difficulty is the car companies

like we have the tariffs.

We all know we have to pay the tariffs.

And now the car companies just haven't agreed on how they're going to present it.

Are they going to hide the fees?

Are they going to advertise a lower rate and kind of stick it to you at the dealer?

And we need some transparency on that.

So hopefully you guys at Edmonds will be the ones

who can continue to figure this out on our behalf.

Because it's not necessarily going to be easy

if everyone does it differently.

I also think there's a bit of politics in this

because it allows the manufacturers to just highlight

what you're actually paying and what you're paying it for.

Yeah.

Right.

I guess is it Volkswagen that has this sign and drive?

That was their big ad campaign.

It was just like, this is the actual price.

Like you come in, you sign this lease,

zero down, zero, whatever,

and you just drive off.

Like I don't know if they're going to have that campaign anymore

because all their cars are going to feel like they're more expensive

than the competitors because competitors hide the fees.

But okay.

So let's get into some of this fun stuff.

Aside from the impact of tariffs and stuff,

there's been some fun things we've done,

some cars that we think have stood out.

Trips we've taken.

I know we were talking before about the defender, Octa.

I'm actually driving a defender right now.

They just dropped off a defender yesterday.

Not the Octa.

But by the way, the one they dropped off

is like this beautiful dark metallic grade, not black.

And I was like, thank you.

Thank you for not delivering another black on black vehicle.

But it's I guess the five liter,

they just dropped it off.

I didn't take into the specs on it yet.

But I remember that was a cool event.

Yeah, that was the thing.

I was quite certain.

I mean, it feels quite solving diligence to talk about it.

But it was, yeah, that was,

I think they were keen to just sort of show off the vehicle

in a place where it has to work.

And we all went to South Africa,

which was a, what I call,

like like a 20-hour flight.

It's a refugee London, then flew down to Cape Town.

But it was worth it because it was,

it was an amazing trip.

And you know, you really get to experience those vehicles.

And we just had a nocturne in the office,

which I unfortunately missed because I was traveling.

But yeah, it's a cool thing.

It's far from cheap.

But it's a cool thing.

And South Africa,

if you've ever been or over fancy,

a kind of exotic destination,

it's a beautiful country, amazing place to be.

16 hour flight, flew back at Lanter to Cape Town,

which I think is a 16 hour flight,

pretty much all over the,

all over the water.

It's one of the longest flights in the world.

But that was, yeah,

that was a special experience in a country

that I've been to several times and absolutely a door.

So that was a fun one for sure.

Trying to see if I can just bring out,

I think there's an image of it here somewhere.

Maybe, maybe this was it.

Oh, what's it?

That's, that's you and me.

Yeah.

That, that's it.

That's you and the dirt, I guess, huh?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's on the podcast.

We're talking about the podcast.

That's the image for it.

Yeah.

That sounds like an epic trip.

It was an epic trip.

It was a bell.

That was, that was very cool.

And then, did you do Goodwood this year too?

I did Goodwood.

It's just a good opportunity.

I try and get to events where I can kind of see a lot of people

and that's kind of part of my job.

And Goodwood, I hadn't been to a few years.

It's funny.

Like you go to these events and color wigs

becoming a bit like that.

And you always have fun,

but there is a sense of, you know,

like the novelty wears off a little bit.

And I hadn't been to Goodwood for it since I came to America.

I think I've been once since I came to America.

I think I've been once in eight years.

And so it's nice then to go back.

And it feels like a fresh experience.

Yeah.

It's always fun for me to go back to the UK

because I, you know, I don't feel like,

I don't know where I live these days.

You know, I live here,

but psychologically,

you're not quite sure, you know,

what nationality you are and stuff.

But it, so it's always fun to go out the UK.

It's a very British event.

It's got bigger and bigger.

And, you know, one thing that stood out was just how many Chinese brands were there

in a way that they lived in the US.

You know, that would be the next big seismic shock

if the all the Chinese brands came in

because you look at the sales figures

as similar like the UK,

they're now in the top 10 sellers.

And it's at the expense of the traditional brands.

So, you know,

it's a, it's a,

it's a quickly changing world.

And it feels like the US is kind of going in a different direction

to everybody else at the moment.

But it was, yeah,

that was, that was an interesting trip.

And of course you and I enjoyed a,

enjoyed a tack here with caviar at,

at Callway, that was a good experience.

Yes.

I haven't been to Goodwood in a few years.

So, I'm eager to go back and just to see how it's even grown more

and some of the brands and stuff that are showing up.

But Monterey Car Week,

which is an annual trip,

kind of a boys trip,

I go up to Adam Corolla and usually his son

and often a few friends.

And, you know,

it,

it's turned into just kind of a fun thing

for us to do for a few days every year.

And,

but this year especially,

yes, we, you know,

our good friend Dan Wood,

he's a chef, he comes up and he's got,

he's firing up the grill,

he's got tacos and caviar and things like that at the track.

And then we do a little dinner at the house as well.

We just rent a little Airbnb up there.

But this year,

there were some new things for me,

is one,

we got invited to a friend's car collection.

He has a house up by the quail.

We've been there once before,

but it's been a number of years.

And we were just running into him.

And he's just like,

he's like,

you got to come back.

You got to see the collection.

I've changed up a few things.

And,

and he's like,

he just got to go.

And I go,

I know,

but the only time we can go is like,

I don't,

I don't remember when it was on a certain day.

It was like a Saturday morning or something.

And he's like,

I've got a meeting.

And he goes,

but just go.

Just go.

I'll be there at the house.

So we,

and it's, it's,

it's just,

the opulence,

it's just kind of what you'd expect.

The nicest guy in the world.

And just a sweetheart of a guy.

But he was just,

you roll up to the gate,

your buzz and you're like,

hey, it's Matt.

And they're like,

okay.

And then the gate's open.

And someone is standing there,

like with, you know,

almost like with a clipboard.

But it's like,

they're the notes are like,

hello, sir.

Come on in.

And unfortunately,

you know,

the oatery can't join us right now.

And then they actually,

he does run out for a minute.

It's like, I got to go into a meeting.

Got to go into a meeting.

Do whatever you want.

We,

you walk into his garage.

And there's,

there's two people in there.

There's a nice young man who's

part of the curation team.

He takes care of the cars

and cleans them.

And then there's someone

behind the bar,

just opening up bottles of wine

and champagne and going,

and we're the only two people there.

They're going,

anything you want.

Just open it up,

whatever you want.

I mean, the floor is in the garage

or Toronto floors.

Right?

I mean,

just, you know,

just polished all the time.

Once a year,

all the cars got to get moved out.

They polish them all back out.

They roll all the cars back in.

And just an amazing collection.

When I say that,

I mean like,

like 250 GTO,

like Ferrari 250 GTOs.

Like,

and not just like one of the cookie

cutter

ones that are worth 80 million.

This is one of the ones

with history.

That's where the 100 million.

So that was a,

that was a nice

to be able to go

and see that collection.

Again,

some of those new cars.

So amazing,

amazing new cars.

New to them.

In that collection.

And then,

yeah,

and then also,

you know,

Thursday,

I think it was Thursday night.

Got invited out on

to the,

to the Super Yacht.

Floating off the coast

of Pebble Beach,

looking back at the lawn.

It's 217 foot.

Yacht.

It was just,

there was so much weather.

It was so choppy.

They have all these boats

come pick you up,

like,

at this pier.

And everyone's dressed up

and all the ladies

are wearing high heels.

And all the young,

uh,

staff members that work

on the boat are just,

it's freezing out.

And they're just sweating

because they don't want

anybody to get her

or fall in the water.

And, uh,

have a nice,

uh, party out there.

So those,

this past year,

um,

Monterey was just epic.

Just,

well,

pulp is living light princess.

Yeah.

Right?

Uh, you know,

on the way there,

I'm just like,

I don't even know if we can afford

the gas to get here on,

on my part.

But, uh,

it was nice to be able

to share in some of that stuff.

But, um,

let's get into some

of the cool

cars and stuff as well.

But let's just take a quick break.

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All right.

So aside from the events.

Aside from the events.

I know there's been more.

But aside from the events.

So aside the events,

I think we've got a curve

because like mainstream cars

and Hyundai policy we talked about

last week is great.

Tesla model is restandard.

I think it's an EV.

It's great value.

I think the Model 3 is a.

A really strong car.

And they just didn't.

They, you know, they, they,

we decontented a little bit

but to reduce the price.

But not so you'd really notice.

I think that's a great EV.

BMW X3 is a bit of a word

when it's not sort of outstanding

in any area.

But he's just a really,

you know, if you're looking

for a kind of a luxury compact.

I think it's a really,

really good all-rounder.

We prefer it to the GLC

and the Audi XQ5.

BMW has kind of been on this.

This consistent momentum

of it's not very outstanding.

You know, like.

Yeah.

I think the I X3

we've just driven the I X3.

And I think that's their big.

There's a new three series

coming next year.

And I thought it might be fun

in the beginning of the new year.

We can talk about what's coming up.

But I mean, I X3 we've already driven.

That's like M5

a little bit of a disappointment.

Yeah, I have that in my disappointment list.

I mean, I,

you know, I have,

you know, I thought the X3

is a really nice all-rounder.

If you're looking for that kind of luxury

Yes.

All SUV

at a fairly sensible price.

M5.

Yeah, M5.

I've got two disappointments.

I've got Dodge,

Dodge Charger EV

which we bought

and just had all sorts of problems with.

And just not a, you know,

just not really a very sorted,

not very finished vehicle.

And then the M5.

I mean, I love M5s.

I remember, you know,

I started my career

and it was the V8,

I forget the code name,

but it's the V8 manual.

Yeah.

Sort of late 90s.

It was a fabulous car.

And so I kind of grew up with those M5s.

And this one, I think,

again, it's all,

it's less about what the engineers want to do

and more about this way

legislation is going.

And, you know,

they've got ended up with an

extraordinarily heavy plug-in hybrid,

which is brutally fast.

But actually not that entertaining

and, you know,

just a bit big and heavy, really.

Yeah.

So that was the one this year.

I just thought,

I actually liked the look of the wagon

more than I do this sedan.

Yeah.

But it doesn't,

it's not,

it's not really better in that regard.

It's just,

I mean, it's cool.

And then M5 should be a scalpel, really.

You know,

it's just,

everything's big, big power,

big brakes, big weight,

big everything.

And so it goes like hell.

I mean, it might be nice in Germany

on an Autobahn.

It goes like hell,

stops pretty well.

But it's just,

you just never get past the fact

that it's big and heavy.

And so it just,

I just came away thinking

even the wagon,

which I love wagons,

there's like,

hmm, I'd have an Audi RS6.

Even if the RS6 is a lot slower

and a lot older,

it's just a much purer,

more enjoyable experience.

And, you know,

and looking at,

again, kind of coming back

from Monterey car week,

seeing,

seeing the,

I guess you could say,

car companies.

I'm not sure exactly

what we're,

we're calling them.

But all of these niche car

manufacturers are coming up

with some really,

really cool and interesting stuff

and revitalizing,

in the way singer,

of course,

who kind of started this thing

and made it a thing,

this reimagining of Porsche,

right?

But, you know,

but now we've got super

La Gera that's doing

550 Porsche's,

and we've got that company

that's doing the Volvo's,

kind of doing a Volvo,

and then, you know,

there's Alfa Romeo out there,

there's Porsche 928,

someone's doing that thing,

and I forgot the name of the company.

X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-XX,

X-X-X-X-X-X,

X-X-X-X-X-X-XX-X-X-XX-XX-X-XX,

Accentra. It's doing a Diablo. Yeah, exactly. I know exactly the car because it drove past me a car week

It's not good that you can't remember the name and I can't remember the name either

Right, but like you go to the quail this year and the quail is just like pop up of these companies

You've never heard of yeah, there's a lot of last couple of weeks a Lotus S3

Somebody's reinvented the original jisaro

You know 70s S3 wedge

With carbon fiber this and that and he looks really cool

And I thought and I don't know how much that one's going to cost but they all cost scryllions of dollars and

That's the only thing that that's

You know may one of my sort of sad things of the year if you like is I feel like a lot of the

Really kind of high end market has got so otherworldly that you know now a GT and this is partly what we talked about with Taurus and everything else

But like you know GT 3911 is now like pushing 300 grand, which is just and you know a Ferrari is six seven eight hundred thousand dollars

You know at these

These sort of smaller niche vehicles are in the millions. It's

They used to be more of a kind of a lot of accessibility, but you know

I had a Carrera S up at the Edmunds Utrecht's cause and there's it was just a fairly standard Carrera S

It was like a hundred and eighty grand and I was like Jesus is

You know everything has got I mean

Last week we just talked about your your macon EV a hundred thousand dollars, you know

I love these cars, but you know as a kid you used to list after things like a Testerosa

But Testerosa's were of the worldly but they weren't

You know they were

They were somehow just out of reach

You know where is something you know like it's five million dollar bigati or something is like whatever

You know, I kind of I mean yeah from a design engineering perspective, but it's just so

removed from

You know from everyday life right where a macon

is supposed to be

The high volume

Porsche they're like this is the one that's really going to allow us to make the specialty cars

We're going to sell so many of these and we're going to have some margin here to make the the specialty cars

I'm like yeah because it's a hundred thousand dollars that's your entry level car

Like that what we're talking about, but I

When you look at the big car manufacturers

When we got so much pressure on them over the last number of years of

Of doing EVs and and things and you know

That

It's nice to see a handful and go yeah, but we're going to still do

A Corvette zr1 and we're going to do a Mustang GTD and and you know

We are going to do some high performance vehicles that are like forget your

You know your EV whatever we'll sell some of those. We'll we'll we'll sell you Mustang Mach ease. All right, but

There's a few people at these companies going oh

It it's worth our while to get into racing to continue to race if we're already into it and and develop you know

Some really interesting halo cars. I think that's an important part. I think we kind of lost that for a minute

You know, yeah, I have the zr1 as my one of my highlights of the year

I mean, I went down to circuit in America as you know and drove it on the on the launch and that was fun

I mean, it's kind of silly in as much that

Michelin having a big pile of you know had an Arctic full of full of tires

So it was almost like Formula One. They were bolting on fresh tires all the time

So you kind of understood what it takes to run the car like that or the circuit like like they have in Texas

But I was really impressed by that car

You know, I think there's a lot of people including a lot of GM engineers

I just thought it was too much thousand horsepower cover it was just like other well

But they've done an amazing job with all the electronics and everything that they've done on that car to

To sort of manage all that performance and we had it there

We also had it the Edmunds you drags track and it was I think it's it's third in the all-time list behind the two fees

And I thought that was I was really impressed by that car

Yes, 200 and you know 200 grand by the time you've got it into the spec that you'd have it in but

In relative terms, that's a bargain now

Honestly like

What for what you get with that car that car is bang for the buck. I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing value

It's a very sophisticated you know, and it's not just

Like the old ZR1 was basically like we're just gonna put in a massive engine

And the engine was way too much for the chassis and it just I

Yeah, people who like that and it's obviously got a bit of a cool status as the last of the you know front mid-engine Corvettes

But yeah, it was too much for the too much for the shoe

This feels like a very well-sorted overall car and

Yeah, I thought it was I thought that's okay. I'm excited about the the ZR1 X. I just don't know if it's gonna

Outsell the ZR1 I get like I you know whatever it's it's obviously got to perform a little bit better over on and the all-wheel drive

And I think everyone's gonna love it

But I don't know maybe the people that are buying that car going now. I just want the engine

Like I just I want the engine the rear-wheel drive. I want the

I think the problem is and I think this is where they're gonna you know

There's a big question all people gonna spend 300 grand on a Corvette. It feels like an awful lot of money to me. Yeah, and also

You know, there will be people who just say I want the fastest then you have to get the ZR1 X

Or I want you know, and I think that is gonna be I think it's gonna be an awesome car because I love the E-Ray the E-Ray is massively underrated

Having all that front axle traction. I mean else is is amazing

So I think it's gonna be mega, but the purest choice is gonna be the ZR1 and that's the kind of hairy shirted

Alternative and it's weird that they just keep

I don't know why they're doing the it. I don't understand why they're doing the X

But it's a little bit like you've built this mega flagship with a thousand horsepower

It's a great statement of your capability

You know, it's it's a bit of a weird thing to then say ah, but that's not quite the

It was really what I was actually on the launch of the ZR1 and they said oh come into this room. Here's the ZR1 X

So it's a bit like

Yeah, it's it's a funny thing because you I think if you're paying 200 grand for Corvette you do sort of want to feel like you've got the ultimate

Yeah, well here's the thing is

It's been kind of the plan from the beginning right when C8 came out they did

Give it some thought and going well

We should we should have some sort of hybrid version. We should have high performance variants like we gave it some thought and because they gave it some thought

I think there's been some

Some shared R&D cost across the C8 lineup. It wasn't like yeah and and for that reason

It puts them more in line with Porsche 911 by going well, we don't have to sell a lot of a ZR1 X

You know if we sell a you know a thousand or a couple thousand

We're gonna make money off of it and it's gonna be a collectible, you know

In ZR1 even at $200,000. They've already figured out

You know how many do we need to sell and will it be collectible or will that be the most desirable one like they didn't just keep

You know going like you said the previous version going

We're maxing out the chassis on this thing like we can't do it anymore like we're already pushing the limits of power and horsepower

You know safety and everything else

but we're just

You know, they're just milking that thing forever

They can when this one they gave it some thought, you know going oh

What are the different variations of it like we don't know exactly they didn't know four or five years ago

if they were gonna hit a thousand horsepower, but

They they knew they were gonna do a ZR1 and they knew

They were gonna do an e-ray and they you know, they thought about combining the two someday

right

And it turned out to be a good formula like it's a it's a good car

Every variant of the C8 is a fun car to drive and

You know, I think there's gonna be some collectibility in certain ones. Yeah

You know

There is I think people will have it as an add on to a probably a collection of other vehicles

I see. Yeah, or you've got wealthy people who just wanted to cover it and then just can now afford that car

But I'm looking for the ZR1 X is coming up thinking the not too distant future, but yeah, ZR1 was pretty so

But then what are you raised you race as you are one or do you find another guy in a chicken suit?

Oh for the use

That's the thing right, you know

GM where you know, it's it's we got to work that we got to work that better out. What do we what do we do?

But you know, you know, I like the rivalry. I like that

Ford took their GTD to the Nürburgring and then I guess it was Corvette

ZR1 went and beat it so now Ford's back going

Well, what if we take our GTD and we do a little bit more arrow

Maybe we throw on the bigger

Three-liter Whipple supercharger on it and then is that a version that we can do and but I like that rivalry like

We mentioned

Zinger maybe earlier Zinger and Kona's egg

They've gone back and forth for the Laguna sake a track time, you know record like

Four or five times now

But I think that's fun and I think that's interesting and I think they have a great

Sense of humor about it. It just seems like in the past year they've each had to congratulate each other

You know three times going yeah, you beat my record congratulations

I'll be back in 60 days see if you can beat you and then I mean every time somebody else beats it

It just raises the profile of everybody so I mean I know we're talking about two million dollar cars here, but

But I like the camaraderie of it. I like the idea of these both these car companies are going on

This is good. This is fun. Yeah, and it keeps us both

In the conversation, you know, like and the reality is probably customers are both anyway because if you're buying two three million dollar cars

Yeah, you've probably got multiple two or three million dollar cars

And I think this is also what people sometimes misunderstand about like Lamborghini and Ferrari and everything else people are both

Especially now these cars are eight nine hundred grand it takes you into an entire idiot

I was one bent it's talking to Bentley was on time and they said them

The market going from say a flying spur to

Was it they did not the unage, but what was the big one? They did and they they said like the market shrinks really rapidly

You know from you know from like the entry level Bentley to the top

And then all yeah, you're something to the you know to the big sit-and if you will

Yeah, it makes a big you know the the market shrinks. So once you get up into the you know

I was reminded every talking about anecdotes of the of the year. I was talking at car week to Bigatti's president

And he said you know

I think there's something like six hundred customers in the world or something who bought

Or is it six hundred or sixty? Oh gosh, remember this

But then he said you know basically half of my customer base

I think it was like six hundred people have bought a big outy since it was sent it came back or something

And he said basically half the people are here

So he's you know, it's and we know everybody by name and you know

So it is a very very small world of people who are you know regularly going around dropping five million bucks on a car

And amazing how a company like that like a company like singer and company like Bogatti

in some cases

Even Ferrari like you have such a like a finite number such a limited number of customers that you

You become a hospitality company as much as you become an engineering or manufacturing company, right?

You're a club you you are a club and they do everything they can to keep you in that

Keep you in that club. I mean it happens throughout the market

I mean Ford obviously is doing a lot of work with Mustang and also with Bronco

That's why you get these Bronco away days and everything else because the what they want to do is

You know get people I'm a Bronco person and then I'm not a you know, I'm not a

You know, I'm not or I'm a Jeep person and you know, and then you have the Jeep Safari so it is

I think everybody and particularly again with the Chinese coming or not coming depending on where you are in the world or what the politics is

It's all about retreat to brand and if you can keep you know

We do a lot of work on things like brand loyalty and who's you know, how people shop and we can see in our site data

So some you know like

something like infinity is really struggle to with

Loyalty yeah, or you know, maybe they bought on price the first time around so you got a great deal

And then they struggle with that idea of like I know I'm gonna come in but I'm gonna shop around and we see it in our site

And like Subaru good brand loyalty because it's like hey, I'm a you know, the Patagonia brigade

I'm off high-king. I've got to have a Subaru you know

I've got my settlement shoes. I've got my Patagonia fleece. I've got my Subaru. I'm off

right and

Subaru is a good example where they I don't know how many like events they do for their customers

But they've created enough of this this brand image that you want to be a fan of that brand

You talk about Jeep hosting their own off-road events

Bronco and and the Raptor brand like

Getting customers together doing the Bronco off rodeo events. Yeah, and and that's

That's cool especially for the price point you get into those vehicles when you're Bugatti and your customers are spending

You're selling them four million dollar cars and they're buying multiple cars

There's enough margin in there that yes at at moderate car week you can pour some champagne for these guys

Yeah, you know, you could you could rent you know, you could throw up million dollar party

You've got you've got margins for that, you know, but especially when you're selling the $1,500 sunglasses

Which were pretty terrible

Right

Now then of course they invite guys like you to those parties and probably stand out like a while

I've been to the Lamborghini party and yeah, Mike you could if you look closely

And if you could see that my couture wasn't expensive enough

If you it is weird those things because you deal it round and you know unless there are

I was normally like a sprinkling of people like oh, I think I've seen him in some Netflix show sometime ago

But then most people are other people like looking at I remember doing an interview David Cooltard when he was in Formula 1

It's not really still involved in Formula 1 and when he was racing for McLaren Mercedes at the time

And he said like you're getting to Formula 1 and I was watching all the

You know all the prize-givings and all that stuff recently, you know after the end of the season

And he said like it's a Formula 1 show you go to all these parties some you have to go for the sponsors

Some you get invited and when you first get into it you're young and it's like hey, I'm going to the

You know pick your high-end party

And he said you get that and you just sort of look around and everybody's just looking at you

And you're looking at them and you thinking what the hell are we doing here?

There is always an element. It's always fun to be out

But there is an element when you look around and you just think we're all kind of looking at you

They're thinking with somebody and none of us really are

No, nobody is and it's funny when you go to some of these events too like you

You'll walk around the quail event or or you know pebble beach and everybody there has got you know

$30-$60-$100,000 Rolex or something

Yeah, but yeah, then you pop into the Bugatti party and we're like oh now we're

Talking well into the six digits here. Yeah, yeah now into the Richard Miele and yeah, like this is a Rolex

It's a 56-day tone or something right like this is a 600,000-dollar watch you're wearing care

This is a 60,000-dollar watch, you know

Shripping diamonds

Yeah, there's it's a different level you're like you said even the $1,500 sunglasses that are ugly, but

But they say Bugatti right above your temple right at the middle

I don't know like the world the market at the like the whole car will the moment is so

messed up in many ways. It's you know so many brands are having difficulty nissants the land is

There's so many people not making money or making very little money

And then you've got you know and and the affordability we talked about like the high-end and that market

You know tends to keep going but even that can be saturated

But then you know we just I was looking at some date from our site in 50 grand is the average transaction price 1550 grand

It's too expensive, you know, there's a massive, you know

People were running around in Bugatti, single asses, but the actual business is run by people buying

You know nissants and Toyota's and Toyota's doing okay, but

You know, it was one of the few

Can you tell you this one the few that the the swagon group is is got some financial issues clearly forwards

19 and a half billion dollar right down on that you know

Atlantis is a is a complete mess and Nissan is a mess. It sounds a mess. They're trying to reboot the business and it's

Portia one of the most profitable car companies that you know

Just a handful of years ago is going what what the hell just happened

Yeah, and who saw that coming really because you know they they look like but after you know Ferrari is the most profitable

Then he was basically Porsche so

You know an epic brand, you know, you've got an epic brand and they're you know they're having difficulty so it's

You know the interest rates are coming down, which is a good thing, you know, there's but

It's it's gonna be a rocky a rocky year again

So I don't know it's a fascinating time to be involved in the industry

But if you said to me two or three years ago

Our company Edmunds was EV first we were looking at website traffic the interest in EVs was

Were super strong, you know of the top 20 cars research cars on the site like five or six revs. We were tracking all of this

And then it's just almost overnight

It kind of went away and then it became you know hybrid toyotas now and now our top-mode research cars are generally toyotas

Hondas the only EV that sticking around actually is the model-wide it has the model-wide that's still in the top 10 most research pages

After that it's basically hybrids and mainly toyotas and Hondas and

Feel the pieces. So it's fascinating and f-150s and stuff, but it's fascinating how that

You know just almost overnight the whole EV thing started to drift away globally and well not yeah certainly is certainly in the US until a certain extent in Europe

Yeah, which you know listen, I'll be honest with you. I'm

I've got the Honda Civic hybrid coming up as a test car and I'm excited about it

I that well that was I Edmunds top-rated best the best last year. Yeah, what this year's is but

That is a great that is actually we talked about it. I guess a year ago, but that is a great example of car where they just hit the sweet spot

It's a really nice little hybrid good size

It's

You know in the world of cars. It's affordable

For 30 was the 32 grand or something the hatchback. It's

And and actually the hatchback gives you basically SUV versatility

I'm quite got the ride height, but it does 90% of what an SUV does

It's cheap to run pretty cheap to buy good technology refined comfortable and the Civic's got bigger over the years

So actually there's decent space inside. It's more like what the accord was back in the day

Yeah, so we got a road trip plan and I was thinking about it, you know because I was you know

I had the Hyundai policy which was great. I got the defender, but you know

I was like I had the option of taking the defender on a road trip and I'm like

I like the defender. It's cool. I'd love to drive it, but it's 11 miles to the gallon

Yes

Right and you know I was like and then I was like

Honda Civic hybrid we spoke about it like you said it was your

Best of the best the past year

I had you know, it's taken me almost a year to

Find the right time to get into that car and and ask for one to request one

And now it's making sense and now I'm kind of

You know, I'm excited about it going. You know what this is you know what I drive everything

But like getting into like little cars that work really well and things like that

We just surprised by I mean that's still where you know

I love driving the fast cars, but it's still a lot of the passion for me

It's just getting into something right? This is this is really good and it yeah

I think maybe as I've got a older as well when you start off you need 21

You know you want to be doing fusesy ass titles and it's all about you know driving across

Mores with you, you know

Whereas now I actually really enjoy

Trying to produce sensible advice on everyday cars. I think there's a really for it still and I mean

I drove the civic type R and it's fun, but it's just I'm just sort of aged out of that car

I think it's great, but it's it's it's a lot, you know, it's a little it's a little boy racer-ish for me and I

I'm uh, I think I've aged out of that car, but

I think you know, I think you've aged into a civic hybrid. I mean to a civic hybrid

Maybe that's the better term is which is why I'm excited to try that car out, but yeah

It's for the older community

If you can't get the Bentley or the car. I was just looking at we do an end-of-year review for like the team

And we always one of the things we always pull of like what are our best, you know, like what are our most popular

Stories and pages of the year and one of our most popular ones is best car for seniors

Really? I'll say I'll send it over

Okay, I'm older than probably everyone on your team. So I'm happy to know. No, you're not. I'm happy to

No, you're not you're not actually we have a good we have a good demographic mix

You're an eye about the same age in case anybody's wondering and never ever seen as in people in person

All right, so final thoughts anything before we head off

My final thought would be just to say thank you to everybody for listening

I know we've had a grown up a social footprint during the year

And I think grown the the viewer viewers and listeners to the podcast. So thank you very much for sticking with us

I think we've got some exciting things coming next year. We're going to do more envisioned stuff and

Have you know about it to have some more guests on so there's there's plenty of growth yet

So you know, thanks for sticking with us and you know any feedback is always welcome and have a wonderful holiday

How are you kicking off the new year at CES? Is that on your plane? Do you know what at the moment? I'm not

A lot of the automotive brands aren't there this year

I think CES has become one of those things. It's really expensive to do

Yeah, and unless you've got something that's really big news where you can really cut through because you're up against Sony and Samsung and LG and all those guys

So I think a lot of people have said it's a ton of money and you know unless we got some really big news

We're not going to do it. So Honda's pulled out Mercedes is pulled out. I think BMW is still there

But I'm probably not going we'll see you don't want to just go to see the latest and greatest and robotic vacuum cleaners

I always enjoy that bit of it. I always find car about enough time outside the meetings to go and see like the tellies and the yeah

The smart washing machines and all that sort of stuff. So I'll miss an element of it

But you're gonna text message when you're close or dry

I've actually got that washing machine. It does do that already. All right

It does do that you know what my wife is like why why have you got like the thing?

I said you know what but like the washing machines and the garage we live upstairs

You know, you don't get out and check anymore it pings me we'll get you washing out. It's going style. Okay

Like that feature. I've got I've got an oven that I can turn the oven on

Flip by Wi-Fi, you know, one of the app again, isn't this nonsense? No, we'll actually you know

You're driving back from ballet class. You turn the oven on you get home oven's pre-heated happy day. There you go

Yeah, so as some of my bombshell, I guess he yeah CS is actually paid off for you over the years

My feelings likewise

Absolutely thanks so much for listening. This is 16 and a half years

I think of of podcasting on on my side here

I think June is 17th year 16th year 70 I think 17th year so

It's been a it's been a long run of of carcass and I appreciate everybody that's stuck with us some of us

There's a few listeners out there that have been around from pretty much day one. I can't believe that

I think you and I have been doing it because I started as a part-time contributor back in when I first arrived

That was 2018. Yeah, so yeah, yeah when we started with Goldberg

There's rolling into our eighth year when I used to pop up once a month as a little, you know, yeah

There's uh, there's some listeners that

Have been around long enough that they have also aged out of the civic type R and they just their civic hybrid

their civic hybrid audience now

um

and

Of course everyone that's been supportive of it buying a bravago. There's my plug for that. Thank you. I appreciate it

If you're looking for something to drink this Christmas or this holiday season yes

um

I will say that it's uh

It's a fun company. It's a big pain in the ass and it's a lot of work and uh more than I anticipated

But I do enjoy it and I do enjoy

Excuse me meeting everyone that comes out to the tasting events. So thank you for that

This is an alcohol itself so for those who don't

I should bet I'll take some to the UK with me if you send me crates over I'll take some and you know

Yeah, I have some here wait well

I don't know if I can get them to you by Thursday you got to swing by

Are you going to the office figure it out? No, yeah, we'll figure it out. I'll say it for dry gin anyway

Yeah, I can uh, I can drive by I've got a defender

Oh, there you go. You can't afford the fuel. You can't afford the fuel, but you know if you're within 12 miles

I can get to your house on one gallon

Um

Guys, thanks so much for listening. We'll be back

January

First week of January I think

Yeah, first week of January

It's like the eighth or ninth or seventh or something like that

I think I'm in the studio with Goldberg on the seventh

That will air on the eighth, but I've got some money. Yeah, we could probably we could maybe do a show on the fifth

We'll work it out. We'll work it out. Yeah, we got some shows

But I still got some other content so there's always going to be some good stuff for you guys to listen to

Thanks so much and

Happy New Year. Happy holidays and until next time keep the air in the spare and the bag of the wheel

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CarCast+Edmunds - 2025 wrap up and thoughts on great events, vehicles and more.

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