CarCast+Edmunds - Hyundai Palisade review, Mercedes E-Class wagon review and Porsche Macan EV long term test result.

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Hello, welcome to the Edmunds carcass podcast. I'm Math and Motoriter Deandre here with Alistair Weaver. How are you? I'm alright, thank you, Matt. I'm flying into the holiday season. A couple of little evening outs coming up, which is fun.

I mean, you guys, you know, the family all from Europe, you go back there, so you're literally going to be flying into the holiday season as you do at the end of the year.

Yeah, I'll be taking off to see the family, the annual, well, no, by annual, because we tend to go twice a year. So, yeah, heading out. Christmas in Europe is always very beautiful.

You know, you get past that rubbish, kind of rainy October and November in the UK, so I'm into the UK for a bit then into France and then back again, so lots of travel.

So that's the part I think not everybody knows, or although we've mentioned it maybe a few times, is your wife is French. So when you go home, it's like you kind of figure out the balance of like going to the UK, going to France,

and how do you sort of divide that and who's going where and so there's a little bit of, it's not just like you go and there's one family stop.

No, that's right, that's always the challenge. And this year she's flying to Paris with the children and I'm flying to the UK because I've got some things to take care of.

So how she thinks she's got the short straw, but then I was kind of lucky at it. You know, this time of year, the flights are full and I've got a middle exit row in, you know, obviously in economy.

Yeah. And I was like, that is, that is rolling the dice. When you six foot four like I am, that is rolling the dice. I can either get like two people sat next to me who are tall, but you know, Slender, or it's going to be not 11 hours of kind of massive invasion of personal body space.

You're going to send them between like two of Goldberg. Yeah. That's his issue that right like is the size of the shoulders, the width.

I mean, believe me, six foot four and airplanes don't really match, but yeah. So I'm taking I'm rolling the dice.

Yeah. Okay. We'll see how it lands. But you know, you get on board, you get off, you know, at some point the plane is going to land, you just go to.

You guys have done a bunch of times now and all the kids have done a number of times now. So they kind of, you know, they kind of know what's on, you know, what they're in for us for us.

You know, long flight and when they should sleep and, you know, what they can do and.

We're pretty religious about screen time like when we drink in cars, we don't give them iPads and things like that. It's a bit of a bit of a thing in our household. But when they see only exception is when they get on a plane, it's like if you want to watch Peppa Pig for 11 hours, be my guest.

Yeah, go ahead. Just go ahead and my flights are okay. They'll sleep a bit. The day flights go on a bit. But yeah, if you want to watch Peppa Pig, go for it. Yeah. Okay.

All right. So I have, I've been driving the Hyundai Palisade and we talked a bit about this.

This is the new version that you guys have been seeing on the road looks a bit like a Range Rover. I mean, I don't think we're insulting them by saying that. I think that's kind of the intention going looks a bit like a Range Rover.

Yeah, even when you get in it, you see the steering wheel and the shape of the, you know, the airbag is like, this is directly right out of a Range Rover.

And it's funny because the steering wheel on it has like four little lights, but I don't even think it says Hyundai on it. Like it could.

Do you know what it is? It's the Morse code for Hyundai.

Oh, is it? I asked the chief designer and I was like, what is, what's all this about? And it is. It's a, it's a secret code for, for Hyundai.

I thought I was just spying on me. Like all the cars seem to be doing these days.

No, it's doing that as well, but it's, no, this is, this is, this is Morse code. And I think it's kind of deliberate that, you know, it's weird.

We've grown up in the last years with this idea of design language across every car.

And you think about this period where like Volvos or BMWs, everything was almost said. It was particularly everything was just a sort of scaled up version of the same thing.

So a C-Class looked like an S-Class and a, you know, an XC60 looked like an XC90.

Hyundai's basically just junked that as an idea. And if you look on their website or gone Edmunds and you look at their lineup,

there's almost no continuity between the vehicles.

Right.

So like a Tucson looks nothing like an ionic, which looks nothing like a, like a palisade.

And, you know, and the Santa Fe is different again. And you know, you put them all in a row.

You take the badges off. I'm not sure people would realize that it's same the same brand. And they, they just seem to be comfortable with that.

And maybe it's because, you know, Hyundai's still trying to battle its way into, you know, into recognition at a more expensive price point.

So maybe there's a sense of, well, let's take all the, you know, let's not overdo the badging because people, you know, it's not like a Mercedes where people want to make a statement.

I don't know. It's, it's, it's an interesting philosophy because it flies in the face of what almost every other brand has done where you build this family of cars that are instantly recognizable.

So, but you're right. It has a preview. Actually, not this generation, but for me, it's the previous generation Range Rover, which, you know, particularly the rear.

It has a lot of sense of, but, you know, as you say, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's got, it's got real presence. I personally prefer the look of the new Kirtel.

And then, then this, but that's just, that's just personal preference.

You know, when you get up on it and you see just how smooth and kind of flush things are it that gives it the feeling that it's a higher and more expensive vehicle.

When you get into the interior, I think the interior is gorgeous. Now, I don't know why they do this. They do this, especially on the press cars just for the photos.

They give us one with white interior and white exterior wheel. And it's just like, sure, it's going to photograph great. But I'm like, this is a disaster.

I don't even know why make it white like that's also a Range Rover thing, right? But I guess maybe Range Rover customers have, you know, have it valid.

Have it, you know, detailed, but a bit more. But you're right. But the interior of this thing's mega, isn't it? I mean, it really is.

Yeah, so now we're looking at it on the website. It's not white. Let me see if they got the white version.

Right, here you go. So I'm driven the white driven the, I've driven the sort of tan which has that.

And I wish it had that. So we get in this one and look, it's great. You know, it looks good.

It's just, you know, up up along the dash, like in front of the passenger, the front passenger, it's got kind of this interesting texture.

Not quite a wood thing, but you know, you feel it. It's got like a nice texture to it.

It's got plenty of storage all over. The center console doesn't really connect. So there's storage underneath.

There's storage above the glove box. There's the glove box itself. You know, there's, there's a lot going on here that I think is really nice.

Now, of course, the white seats, the white center console, the, you know, the white inner half of the steering wheel.

I had to go and I was fussing around in the storage unit with a bunch of like car parts and stuff that I had.

And I got into this thing and I'm like, I don't know how to drive it because I'm afraid to touch the steering wheel because my hands are dirty.

And I was like, I know I can clean it, but it's, you know, it's, it's also like because it's a press guard. I'm like, I just, I just don't want to touch everything because it's white.

This is what we're talking about. The steering wheel, it's got kind of the shape that's like a rain trover. It's gorgeous on the inside.

Now, you can see where, when you get into it, they actually did a really good job of the touch materials and everything.

The windows switches have kind of an aluminum feel to it when you click on them, but the door handle doesn't. It's got this big round door handle, which I think is fine.

It's just, it's very plasticky and lightweight.

And again, it's one of those items that you do touch all the time.

So that one, you can feel like, what do they say, like a little bit of money, but it's gorgeous.

I mean, honestly, when you think the average transaction price of a new car is 50 grand and this starts at 44, it's a mega value.

And I think, I know we talked about this before, but I think what the Korean brands are doing really well at the moment and Genesis in particular as an example.

This is they put the money where you feel it.

And if you get into, we have a BMW X3, which is a great car, but when you get into the cabin, you can see where they've like gone.

This is an X3 with detune in the plastic here or we're saving 20 bucks there.

What the, what I think Hyundai and Kia and Genesis are really good at is saying, this is the bit that you touch.

This is the bit that you see. Let's put the money there and let's try and save it somewhere else because it's fascinating.

I was what looking at analysis of Tesla's Model Y stand.

There's these companies that exist that reverse engineer cars.

So they sort of pull them apart and all the manufacturers buying the data.

And they basically reengineered reverse engineer and try and figure out, you know, how much everything costs and then they all kind of learn from each other.

They sort of tear downs.

And it was really interesting looking at how much Tesla took out of the Model Y premium to go to the standard.

Yeah.

And it's when you think the car costs, you know, 40, 40 grand plus.

It's not a lot of money like, you know, the difference between a plastic steering wheel or leather steering wheel.

The difference between one phone charger and two or all these little things and it's like 20 bucks here, 30 bucks there.

And you think, hey, I've spent 40 grand.

You say, you know, it's there's 20 bucks difference between something that looks nice and something that doesn't all that feels good or doesn't feel good.

But I guess when you're building 400 that, you know, if you look at the Ralph four, if you're building 450,000 a year in the US, then 20 bucks is a lot of money.

Yes.

Right. Cause it all adds up.

But you're right on the Tesla standard that specifically when we talked about that.

That one just seemed like almost all the money they cut was in the interior and the touch items and the things that you interact with every day.

Cause I don't know where they cut anything else.

It wasn't like, you know, underneath the vehicle is where they started to save money.

Just it's not there.

And the weird thing with the sunroof, they kind of.

Yeah, there's a lot of things.

And I think that yeah, you're right.

And it looked like an afterthought.

A lot of that car feels like we've got to come up with a cheaper version.

What do we take out?

And the policy feels like the opposite.

It's like you look at it and Hyundai's Kia's business model is a little bit different to what we know in kind of the US.

It's not quite as dependent on, you know, immediate share prices.

So you look at it and you think, well, you know, this is feels like an investment for the future, but they've done a they've done a really nice job with it.

That interior, I think is for the money is unmatched.

It's fantastic.

So the Hyundai policy.

So we're talking about the policy.

Yeah, the policy.

So the when you look at the Genesis lineup, the GB 80 is a two row.

So they don't have, I don't think Genesis doesn't have a three row.

And Genesis doesn't have the hybrid.

No, but they're working.

There's a lot of rumors.

And I was kind of expecting to see it by now.

So maybe is isn't happening is happening.

But there's a lot of talk of Genesis doing a.

A version of this car, you know, to rival things like the Mercedes Mercedes GLS, you know, BMW X7.

But we haven't seen it yet.

So maybe it was maybe it didn't, you know, maybe we won't.

But I know there's a lot of talk about.

Well, that's kind of what I was was getting at this version is the calligraphy, which is interesting.

Because Range Rover has the biography auto biography, right?

This is the calligraphy.

And I don't know that you need to Genesis version of this because this trim model, this is the more expensive one.

This is about 60,000 is is as much as a Genesis as you can get.

Like they did a nice job on the interior, like you're saying.

This one here, because it's three row.

The rear seats fold down flat, which I did.

And then the two like captains chairs in the middle, I don't think they fold down flat.

They kind of move forward so you can get into the back and you can create some room.

And but it's it's not.

They didn't do it where it like sort of folded.

At least I couldn't figure out how to do it.

I don't know if you had some time to do it or maybe someone on your team is starting to do one of the tests

where you see how much luggage can fit into the thing.

But I just saw the buttons on the side because the middle row captains chairs are all power.

And there's a button on it that moves them forward and leans them forward so you can get into the third row.

But I didn't see a version of it or handle the pull that makes them pop and fold down flat.

Now I didn't spend too much time.

I think they tip and fold, Matt.

That was about it.

I think they, yeah, I don't quote me on this because it's a while since I was playing around with it.

But I think they, yeah, I think they sort of do a little kind of like forward roll rather than rather than laying flat.

But it's still, you know, if you are the sort of person that wants a big trunk

and most of the time you're using it as a big trunk as a two row is great for that.

But the rear seats are properly usable.

They do the Santa Fe, which is a little bit cheaper and a bit smaller.

And it has that benefit been a bit more, you know, a bit easier to live with for being smaller.

But then the third row in that is much more of a kind of very occasional kids use.

This is a proper three row.

But if you fold the seats, rear seats down, what you end up with is a very kind of volumous two row and a very comfortable one.

It's, it's a, it's a good thing.

And the hybrid, we've tested both the standard car and the hybrid.

The hybrid is just, I think about two and a half grand more.

If memory serves, that is a, it is worth the money.

It's the one again for sure.

It's the one again, but it's not just about fuel economy, which it, which is going to improve.

It also just gives you more power and performance.

And this is a big heavy vehicle.

And if you don't have that hybrid, the standard version could feel a little bit labored.

The hybrid gives you that extra arm.

So it's, and I think the residual values will be better as well.

So you're probably earning two and a half grand back in the long road.

So I would, I would definitely go for the hybrid.

And, and I noticed that the ride was comfortable in the transition between firing up the gas engine and the hybrid system.

Hardly noticeable at all.

Like, it's very smooth, very integrated.

It, it, it, it worked well.

One of the, the things that annoy me in cars is the, the start stop feature, the auto start stop feature.

You know, and especially when you start to get into the higher performance cars and you're like,

well, you don't hear the engine and then out of stop light.

And then you fired up and you see somebody walking across the street in front of you.

And some V8 or something fires up in front of them.

And they kind of hop and are like, gosh, what, what is that?

This car very smooth.

And I believe the gas engine is a small four cylinder.

But the combined power between that with the electric motor.

And as you said, it's not a plug in hybrid.

It's all just does it by itself.

It's kind of way hybrid.

It's another one of these cars like the camera is something where you don't actually think of it as a hybrid.

It's just a good, it's just a good system that gives you especially on a big vehicle like a family vehicle.

You're not necessarily looking for like massive top end.

What you want is that really low down pull.

And, and that's what the hybrid gives you.

So no, it's a good thing.

I had a, I had to take a drive out.

There's a little plug for you.

I went out to the warehouse where I keep all the pervago hard stuff.

Is it a pervago plug?

This is a pervago plug.

So, and I had to go to the warehouse to get it to bring it to the store.

So I was, we, we moved to self-distribution.

I'm delivering to the stores.

And I haven't gone out there yet.

So I went out there.

And I said, give me 30 cases, which is about 600 pounds.

And loaded it up.

Fine.

It didn't, it didn't, it wasn't like a handle all that way.

I probably could have brought 50 cases.

There was plenty of room for it.

And like you said, the, that second row seats, I just moved them forward, put the third row down.

And there was more than enough space for it.

But even with that extra weight, driving home of a combination of highway and getting some L.A. traffic,

I just get 30 miles to the gallon, 31 miles to the gallon.

That's great.

I mean, I was getting 15 in the Lexus GX.

It took to Mama.

I mean, you know, that's for something so big, it's, it's good.

Yeah.

And it ran, it ran great.

And it still ran smooth.

I thought my concern was like, oh, maybe I should just grab 30 cases.

If I grab 40 or 50 cases, now it's going to be maybe 1000 pounds.

But putting like 600, it was like 660 pounds into it.

Obviously, I moved most of it to the center of the vehicle right behind the second row seats.

And not all in the tail.

And honestly, it was just, if you think about it, it's like, that's what a couple of people.

A handful of people.

If you filled up the seats, that's what it would weigh.

And it ran great.

And I thought the added weight would start to dig into the, to the fuel economy.

But really, it didn't.

If I was probably doing 80, 85 the whole time, maybe it was.

But, you know, when you hit traffic and the EV, you know, portion kicks in and gets you moving again,

it worked out to 30, maybe 30 plus miles per gallon.

So, you're right, the EV, the hybrid one is the way to go.

It is.

And now the tell your right, the key version, normal key leads.

And then Hyundai comes second in this instance.

Hyundai's gone first.

So we'll see that we've seen the new tell your right.

And I think we're driving that in January of memory service.

So it'll be interesting then to put the tell your right and the policy together.

Yeah.

Everybody thinks that they should, you know, those two companies should get along.

But there's a lot.

And there's a lot of legislative stuff of where they can't be like anti-competition law,

where they can't overshare information.

But it's funny how they cut the price on the aionic five dramatically.

And I was talking to the care guys and I was like, so does this mean EV six is going to be cut as well?

They're like, no.

It was like we as almost like we didn't know either.

So it's funny.

It's like your little, you know, it's like brothers.

It's like they, they kind of, they protect, you know, maybe they do love each other really,

but they're fighting like hell.

So.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So I kind of turn in the page,

going in the, the opposite spectrum, the Mercedes, the E class wagon.

You were driving that, right?

So, you know, still, still can help plenty of provago.

Yeah.

I was, that could hold plenty of provago.

It's just kind of rarely get into a vehicle.

And again, a bit like the policy that she get into, you just think this is really good.

It's just like really well sorted.

And I know like lots of auto journalists by myself, we all get a bit obsessed with wagons

and then nobody buys them.

But I think there is, you know, there is a bit of SUV fatigue at the moment, I think.

And I just thought this was a fantastic car.

The E class generally is just a really, I mean, it's always been,

you talk about the cars that define a brand.

And the E class has always been Mercedes, hasn't it?

You know, it's a German taxi.

It's the, it's the heartland of that brand.

I mean, the S class has always been the default luxury car,

but the E class has always been the kind of center point of Mercedes.

And I just think this, this, this wagon version is great.

They do an AMG version of the 53, which is, you know, another, you know, kind of another 20 grand.

But the standard, this was the standard version.

And honestly, I think it's not a plug-in hybrid like the AMG.

It, but it's got 375 horsepower.

We had it at the track.

I haven't seen the numbers yet, but somewhere in the fours to 60, so plenty fast enough.

It starts about 80 grand in a decent level of trim.

You're not paying a lot more than that.

And you know, that's a lot of money.

But when you think, you know, when you think of what else you buy for 80 grand,

that feels pretty decent value for me.

It's got air suspension.

You know, it's got, there's a lot of stuff going on with it, which is just really nice.

Rise beautifully, super refined.

The wagon looks cooler.

It's got tons of space in the back.

I would, I was thinking if I had, you know, if I handed one everyday car for my lifestyle right now,

this would be great.

Okay. Well, that's, that's a big statement though.

Yeah, it is.

I was like, I got into it.

And then we were kind of fighting over the keys a little bit in the office,

because everybody was just like, this is just, this is just a nice, you know,

just a really nice car.

And you know, sometimes you go for the AMG.

Yeah, they sound better.

They look a bit cooler.

You know, you got, you know, sports seats or whatever.

But then, you know, the, the rides a bit stiffer.

If it's plug-in hybrid, it might be faster on certain occasions,

but not necessarily overall, you know.

But then when the battery is gone, you're lugging it around.

I just thought, you know, RS60 is fantastic, but RS60 is, you know, 130 grand.

I just thought 80 grand luxury car.

You know, this is out there with BMW X5, obviously Mercedes own GLE,

but I think it's a much more kind of considered choice.

It was really good.

You know, the, the difference between the, the AMG version though,

and this and the standard version, like zero to 60 is only about a half a second,

four and a half versus four.

Yeah, and that's when the battery's charged, right?

The battery's not charged, then you kind of end up in the same place,

or even slower.

And I don't know, it depends on your usage.

I see the point of just about a plug-in hybrid NLA.

LA, if you're going to put it in the garage and charge it every night,

then it probably, you know, the 40, I think it's got about a 40 mile range.

So that probably makes sense, if you're in an urban area.

But if you're, you know, this is a long distance vehicle.

If you're just going to be using this to, you know, drive to go skiing on a weekend

or whatever it may be, the plug-in hybrid becomes less and less important.

Yeah.

Well, it's a, I think in this instance, I think you're right.

I think the standard version is probably the one you want.

Yeah, maybe I'm just going old, but.

Well, you know, like, if it was, if the AMG version was like,

really, really turned up, you know, like, like the Audi RS6.

You know, if they said, listen, you know, do you want to wag in

or do you want like the higher performance, like the pinnacle of performance wagon?

You know, like that would, is that what you want?

I mean, I guess you can throw into the mix.

M5 wagon.

Yeah, but then that's a, that's another 50 grand or something.

And actually, I know fun of the M5 wagon.

We've got a U-drugs coming out without giving the game away.

We have an Edmunds U-drugs where we run the M5 wagon and it's really fast.

And both Jonathan and I had a testing.

And I were like, it's really fast, but yeah, it's really heavy.

And it's not.

So this, this I just thought was a nice, you know, a nice guy.

It's a luxury car.

It's expensive.

But you think the Palisade is, you know, we're talking about in a sort of mid-spec trim,

is in the 50 to 60.

This is more like 80.

But, you know, it's a, it's a luxury alternative.

It's 2.0.0.3.

But it's, it felt in, in a world where everything frankly is too expensive.

This felt like a decent value in that market.

It feels like a luxury car.

It drives like a luxury car.

It's a, it's a, it's a really nice thing.

But it kind of flies under the radar because of course it's a wagon.

You know, they don't, Mercedes don't put much marketing money behind it or anything.

So you've got to, you've got to know about it.

And there's something cool in that as well.

Yeah.

So, but it starts at about 78,000.

So I don't know.

Depending on how you, how you spec it, there's, there's probably a handful of, of options

and some things or upgraded sound system and stuff.

So I'm guessing, I don't know which would, what you did, I did it.

I did it about 85.

I looked at it and like they bombized the sound systems already included.

So it comes out probably with destination and the pain's knowing it.

You're probably paying about 85.

But if you think about it, the, the Genesis GB 80 that we were talking about,

the two OSUV that, you know, that's, that's like 83 for the, for the loaded version.

You know, I mean, it starts, you know, much lower than that.

But you know, you, you're getting the Genesis, you're getting the luxury version.

You get the top trim model.

It's like 83 grand, right?

And maybe there's a few options.

It's 85 grand.

So over 85 grand, you could switch over to Mercedes.

And you can get the, the E class wagon.

So yeah, I mean, something like a grand highlander.

It's easy to spend well into the 60s on.

And, you know, Toyota, you know, Toyota's grand highlander and Lexus GX is, is, you know,

depending on your trim is well into that category.

So there's a lot of, yeah, I mean, unfortunately, everything's got so much expensive

that you know, look at 80 grand and go, oh, that's, yeah, that's, that's quite reasonable.

Yeah.

Like when you're thinking about it, you're going, hey, you can get a really nice Mercedes,

especially the E class wagon.

And you're in the mid 80s.

And you're like, yeah, I wasn't sure about that.

I thought, you know, getting into Mercedes was all going to be, you know,

100,000 in the north of it.

The one I always enjoyed, like I grew up in my dad had E class Mercedes.

So I grew up in them and he had originally bought used.

And, you know, as he career went on a little bit, eventually bought a new one.

And those are, I remember the days, like, of the options.

And I remember that Mercedes didn't give you a radio.

It's sitting in the UK and it's probably different.

It might be as different in the US.

But, well, the W1 to 4, which was the iconic Mercedes from the early 90s.

And you didn't have a radio.

And so you had that single-din unit.

And the idea was, oh, well, you go to the dealer and then you choose what system you want.

Which was looking back on it now with all the knowledge you have.

It was loaded nonsense.

It was all about, you know, reducing the MSRP.

Yeah.

But my dad, being my dad, like, would have these Mercedes.

And he just kept saying, I don't want anything different.

So he would have this, like, he had a 1970s one.

And he just kept saying, you know, putting that into every new one.

So we ended up with this kind of nice Mercedes E-Class with this sort of 1970s radio.

I remember the day we got like a CD player.

It was like the world of, you know, the world had changed.

And they, you know, and then, of course, they were easy to nick because

they were just a single-din.

Some people used to break in all the time.

But yeah, you had no, just going into the 90s,

Mercedes E-Class, no air conditioning, no radio, you know, nothing.

You had plum for speakers, but you had to buy your own unit.

And I think that's part of the challenge now.

We just now get into it.

And you go, what do you mean it hasn't got YouTube?

What do you mean I can't watch like Disney Plus on it?

Yeah, you know, but what you're talking about,

I don't, I don't think that was the same here.

I think, I think if you're buying the Mercedes here,

even in the 80s and 90s, it would, it would have,

or standard features like, you know, whatever,

some sort of basic radio air conditioning, something.

Like, I don't know we can sort of de-spec it like you could,

you know, across the pond.

We always just like, oh, no air conditioning, no, no,

that's just for you, that's just for you.

You don't have air conditioning.

It's like, well, we're just sitting there and sweating.

Yeah, yeah, but you know, it's not really a thing.

Excuse me.

Strange news.

Well, that is part of the problem now that our expectations

of what comes in a vehicle is, you know,

when we talk about this from 20 grand to 200 grand,

you know, the expectation level is so high.

And as far as I was honestly on the shoot last week

and one of the production assistants had a Nissan,

had a Nissan kick, and she was saying to me,

I'm sick of it, I don't like it.

And I said, why don't you like it?

I bought the base model because, you know,

I wanted to lower the cost, doesn't have Apple CarPlay,

so I'm done with it.

Yeah.

But it has all this stuff I don't want.

It's really funny because, like, a couple of weeks ago,

I was talking to the head of marketing at Nissan,

and he was like, we've got to build cars that people want,

because we have built all this stuff in that nobody wants,

then we don't have the features they do want.

And I was just like, wow, it's just like an exact use case of that.

And she's like, I don't want all these stuff

that are never going to use, but like,

why can't I plug my phone in properly?

We talked about that last week as well,

talking about some of the car companies kind of losing their way

on figuring, you know, you know,

going, oh, this is what people want.

You know, we talked about truck manufacturers,

like, probably listening more to the customer, right?

And then getting into some cars,

and they're going, everything's on a touchscreen.

You know what?

You know what would be neat is if you can't adjust the air vents,

you know, without going three steps into a touchscreen.

That's a cool feature.

Like, nobody asks for that feature.

Nobody wants that feature.

Nobody asks for it.

We were talking about trucks,

but then I spent most of last week in an expedition.

In fact, it's still parked outside my house now,

which is a really good vehicle,

and they've really made an effort to improve the tech and the feel

and make it give it more kind of luxurious vibe

more towards Lincoln than traditional Ford.

But they've also done that thing of,

right, okay, how do you make it luxurious?

Minimalism.

And so on the steering wheel,

they've got these little like joystick controls.

But instead of having a button for like cruise control

and a button for like volume up and volume down,

it's all like, it's all like an anonymous touch.

So you have to press it,

and then it pops up in another digital screen,

and you're like,

oh, that's volume.

And then you have to press it again.

And I'm sure if you live with it all the time,

then it becomes instinctive.

But like, they've also got minimalism,

get rid of all the signage and the bagging,

and then we can use it for different things.

And it's like, okay, how do I turn the volume up on this thing?

Yeah, the like cruise control.

And the Lincoln had that as well.

And we drove the Lincoln,

we drove the Navigator.

I don't think we took it to Monterey.

I mean, it was car week.

It was right around car week.

And you're right.

I was like,

you have to use this steering wheel controls

to control the AC vents, I think it was,

or the mirrors or something.

You know, just the mirrors.

And I was like,

why isn't it just on the door,

like every other car?

Yeah, every other car that Ford makes,

because it's luxury there for it.

I mean, I think Range Rover,

again, it's like the Range Rover influence,

because I think what they did amazingly well

on the Range Rover,

and Jeremy McGurvin looks like he's left the business now

who's the guy behind it.

But let's just strip everything

and go and go for like minimalism,

because luxury is minimalism.

And everybody's like,

ah, okay, I'm going to follow that now,

but yeah, you do get to a point where it's just like,

I don't understand this car.

Yeah.

It's not,

it's not always the best, right?

But you're right.

Like, then you get into a car like the kicks

and going,

all I want to be able to plug in my phone,

and just like,

and then I've got everything in the steering wheel.

Like, I know it's a standard feature

pretty much in every single car.

Although, you know,

then you get into like,

I don't know like Rivian

or something to like,

we don't want you to use your phone.

Yeah, but then they spend a lot of money on their own,

you know,

and then even then,

even now they're like,

you look at GM and Rivian

and it's all about who owns the data.

But then they say,

okay, well,

they still end up with Google Maps and everything else.

You almost end up in the same place.

What they effectively do is

just build CarPlay into their own system,

because you still have,

you get into Tesla now,

you've got,

you've got mapping.

I think this comes from Google.

I'm not sure.

It's only really two suppliers for mapping.

Then you've got, you know, Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

So you end up in the same place, basically,

because that's what everybody wants to use.

All right.

So let's,

let's do this.

Let's take a quick break

and then let's talk about Porsche McCone EV.

All right.

We'll be right back.

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Price is very based on how you buy.

Okay.

So, Portia McCondt,

you guys bought one, right?

Yeah, we bought one.

Yeah, you guys bought one.

We just, we're just getting rid of it.

The EV.

Yeah, so I don't know where to start with the car.

I guess didn't really love the car.

It was okay.

Yeah, we, it's, it's, I mean, look,

it's no, we are, I mean,

you know, we're a team of car lovers.

Of course, we are.

We do the job.

And, you know, we,

it's, it's no secret that we,

you know, we think generally speaking,

Portia does an amazing job.

And we love the 9-Elevens.

And we're talking about the tier a couple of weeks ago.

And apart from the gearing,

it's a fabulous thing.

This just feel the McCann, you know,

we, we, we had,

we owned a previous generation.

Gas McCann,

loved it.

And then this one, you know,

as soon as it was announced,

we're like,

we've got to get one of these.

This is going to be quite a kind of key player

in the market.

Luxury market.

Portia's first, you know,

really ground up EV.

It's going to be great.

It's going to have this now.

And we spent a hundred grand on one.

And we're going to have this.

And we spent a hundred grand on one.

And then now we're just a little bit like.

Oh, it's,

it's quite rare that the whole team,

there isn't really anybody in the team

that is sitting there going.

I'm so, so, I'm,

I'm so, you know,

upset that we've sold this.

I thought this was going to be my default, you know,

when I'm fortunate that we have this range of vehicles

in our one year test fleet.

And you can pick and choose to a certain extent.

And I was like,

if I'm going on a family vacation,

this is going to be the choice.

Really excited to have it.

And the reality is just,

as I actually say in that the piece that we wrote

and then it's in the video as well,

just doesn't work for me as a,

as a family man.

I mean, you know,

if you're taller,

then the rear seat space becomes really diminished.

And my

six-year-old in her,

in her booster seat was just complaining

about legroom the whole time.

And what I don't get is

from a practicality perspective,

it's bigger than Ionic 5 Hyundai.

And it's got massively less room inside.

So it's like, well,

what have you done here?

Because it's the same.

You've got a slightly bigger battery,

but that's beneath the floor anyway.

You've got a motor either end.

You're like, where's?

You just feel like a really bad piece of packaging.

And you're short to portion,

so like, why is it so small?

So, oh, well,

because we're doing the Cayenne.

Yeah, you're doing the Cayenne.

And the Cayenne's going to be like 120 grand

or whatever it is.

And it doesn't sort of make sense.

So it's an EV that doesn't really capitalize on it.

So it's bigger than a gas-it-makan,

but that's not saying much,

because gas-makan's always been small in the back

and 10 years old.

So it's like, well,

what are you doing here?

And then it's not that fast.

I mean, like 0 to 60,

I think we tested it 4.8.

So, you know, clearly not slow,

but in the world of performance related EVs,

not that fast either.

Yeah.

So it's not very big.

It's not very fast.

The interior feels really solidly built,

because in that best Porsche tradition,

but some of the plastics and stuff are a bit like,

and then it's just so much money.

It's that kind of Porsche thing where it's like,

oh, it starts off at 80,

but then you kind of need,

you know, we went through with Porsche when we bought it.

And it was like,

well, we recommend that you get these options

because that's what people want in the used market.

So, you know,

the standard stereo is a bit rubbish.

So you need to get the bows,

okay, we'll tick that box,

then you need to get this,

and you need to get that.

And there's just a ton of stuff that, you know,

I'll give you an example.

That 360 camera that you use for going into a parking space

or, you know,

and I think generally speaking now,

particularly at this level of the market,

that's pretty standard, right?

I think you look at that and you say,

this is, you know,

this is not in any way unusual.

It doesn't have it.

Real windscreen wiper.

Doesn't have it.

And it's a hatchback, basically.

It doesn't have it.

Just a ton of stuff that you think,

okay, so it hasn't got all of that,

must be mega in other areas.

And the reality is it's like,

it's great to drive.

I think the one thing that we are all agreed on,

it is great to drive on many ways.

There's a few little things that we don't like about it.

Germany speaking,

it drives well.

But for a hundred grand,

it's like, yeah, it's so much money.

I mean, you mentioned Ionic 5,

you mentioned Genesis GB 60,

and even continuing the conversation

for 85 grand,

get the E-Class wagon.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I had the GB 60 as my family car

and I could jump from the mechanic to that.

It's got more space,

despite being a smaller car.

It's got way more equipment.

Maybe it doesn't feel,

I mean, the build quality feels really good.

Maybe the little things

where the Porsche feels a bit more solid.

It's a bit more of a kind of bet.

It's a little, it is better,

the ride and handling it.

Oh, the handling is better.

Maybe the ride's pretty similar.

But you don't think the Genesis is 60 grand

and the Porsche is 100 grand.

You would put them side by side

and think these things cost the same money.

It's a weird car.

And then the other thing about it is

now we're trying to sell it.

Yeah, maybe it's unusual

to buy it and sell it after a year.

It's more about how we run the program.

But 50 grand.

It's like half the price.

I think they're offered $51,000 for it.

And it's the three in the teens for the miles.

Here's the question.

How nice is it to own

as a McConaughey V for 50 grand?

Yeah, do you know what?

I watched our video back

and I wasn't directly involved with it.

But I watched it and I said to the guys

behind the afterwards,

I said, I think we missed something

on this film actually

because you turn it on its head

at a hundred grand with a 50 grand.

You know, this is actually...

That changes the equation.

For me, it still wouldn't work

because it's too small in the back.

But yeah, you think of 50 grand.

Well, what else is out there?

I mean, that, you know,

like a McConaughey V

with 2015, 20,000 miles

or a new Ionic 5 or something.

Then I think the equation changes.

So yeah, what you've almost ended up

with is a really good use buy.

And maybe the audience changes a little bit.

Like, you know, for you guys,

it wasn't quite the family vehicle

that you guys hoped it would.

But if you're one person,

if you're a single person,

or you're just a couple with a dog,

and you're like...

Or maybe you're not...

You know, if you're the kids

that are at slight different stage,

or you know, it's tall.

It helps a little bit.

But yeah, all of those factors.

I mean, the other thing was

it wasn't a hundred percent reliable.

You know, we have run Ford's EVs

that have been a hundred percent reliable,

the BMW EVs have been a hundred percent reliable.

We had...

You know, if you watch the film on our YouTube,

and read the piece on our website,

we also had some gremlins with it.

So, I mean, the hard thing about being used Porsche is

it's a used Porsche.

And, you know,

things are expensive on it.

They just are.

And it's hard to get past that.

I mean, so many cars,

because they're so expensive to fix

and things are kind of, you know,

as good as the warranty is.

And there are good programs,

and, you know, for extended warranties,

on lease returns, and things like that.

But getting certified pre-owned,

that's a conversation for another time.

But, you know, there's...

There's a reason why those programs are in place.

So, you can, you know,

go on to the dealer lot and find something that's,

you know, maybe you sell yours for 50 grand,

but when you go back to Porsche to buy it,

and it's 60 grand, you know, used on the lot,

okay, is it worth 60 grand?

Sure, probably is.

If it's, if it's got the good, you know,

CPL warranty and stuff with it.

And, and, and in some cases,

those are better than the original factory warranty.

You know,

Yeah, and there's plenty of...

I mean, you know, our power and company is car,

might say, I have a good warranty scheme.

And, you know, that can be,

you know, that can be a good option.

Yeah.

Depending on, you know,

it means a little bit on the car

and your kind of appetite for risk.

It's like any other insurance, isn't it?

You know, do you?

Right.

But I mean, the peace of mind that it,

the peace of mind that it delivers,

I think is, is important because if things go,

things go badly south.

But, if you're buying a kind of year-old

or two-year-old McCann,

that's maybe kind of, you know,

X-demo, or has come off lease,

or two-year lease or something,

then the reality is,

you've still got the,

oh, it manufactured warranty attached to that.

You're going to have a long time to go on the batteries

and, you know,

there's still a good buy.

I thought the same thing,

because my genesis is about to come off lease.

And I was like,

oh, 50 grand.

Is that now?

But then I was like,

oh, I know what happens down the line.

And it's still too small.

So, so I'm not going to do it.

But, yeah, it's an interesting.

And EV,

EV use prices generally I was playing around

and looking at what,

what stuff is.

And there's a lot of cars that fall into that category.

Volkswagen ID4.

Not a great new,

like pretty, you know,

not a great, great vehicle.

But, you know,

for like 22 grand used,

you're like,

yeah.

So, it's just a second car,

you know,

if you want an EV as like your two car families,

a 20, you know, 25 grand

gets you a really nice EV these days.

Yeah.

So, maybe we should bring this up on another episode.

But when you return the lease on the GV60,

what's going to be next?

You know,

I wish you'd bring it up

because I'm now deep in thought on this,

because it's, you know,

it's not my,

you know,

it's not my car as such.

It's the family car,

but it's predominantly my wife's car.

So, she has,

she has the casting vote.

Right.

So, are you big,

good, big good show actually

as to what, you know,

what, what your options are

and how you get them.

We should bring her on the show

and ask her the questions.

Yes.

What she's looking for.

I like you do that.

Yeah.

You know, because also it's like,

there's the two kids

and they're getting bigger

and that that's just not going to slow down.

They're going to get big quick

and more,

you know,

whatever they're into,

it's going to be play time

and sports and classes.

And of course,

and everything that we do at work

is objective basically.

And this is one of the hard things

about car shopping.

You know,

we objectively analyze all the vehicles

because that's our job.

You know,

it's not rather a role

to a kind of a pine on the styling

and things like that.

Anything that's subjective,

we kind of like,

well, that's your choice.

But it isn't just when you come

and buy a car that I was like,

Ionic 6,

great deals,

massive inside

to my mind,

I live that streamlined

or aesthetic.

Oh, we don't like the way it looks.

Okay.

So that's all.

Now, the other thing to think about

from the wife's point of view

is when you're driving an EV

all the time,

especially in LA,

going back to a gas engine car,

you've got to start thinking,

oh, I got to stop.

I got to get gas.

And if I'm hitting like the Costco,

it's 30 minutes waiting in line.

Like,

you have to start planning that

as part of your week, I guess.

You know,

planning how much you drive.

Yeah.

If you have to charge her at home,

you bring it home,

you plug it in,

you never see a gas station again.

Like, you know,

you know,

and actually,

in our world,

which is true of a lot of people,

there's free charging at

my wife's office.

So she drives it to the office,

plugs it in,

charges it up.

We basically never pay for fuel.

And I think a lot of people

who are commuting to offices,

you know, can be in that luxurious position.

Yeah.

So to go back to a gas car,

you're right,

go back to a gas car

is then,

you know,

but we are that classic household,

where,

because of the nature of my business,

we have a gas car

for any long distance.

So, you know,

go to mammoth

from here,

take the Lexus GX,

which is 15 miles a gallon,

drive around LA,

take the EV,

and I think that's probably

how a lot of the market

is going to settle down,

but at a price.

And I think the thing

that we're going to go through,

which is what everybody's

going through,

is, you know,

we lease this Genesis

when we got the $7,500 tax credit,

happy days.

Yeah.

Now that's gone.

If it's like gone

from, you know,

500 bucks to

700 bucks,

we ain't getting one.

You know.

Right, right, right, right.

Okay.

And then, speaking of gas mileage,

you mentioned a minute ago,

you were driving the expedition.

You have the expedition.

Yeah.

Out front right now.

I think you guys were

digging into this truck a little bit.

You know,

because we've all driven

the Lincoln Navigator,

but the expedition,

you know,

the Ford version,

massive,

they do the,

what's it called now,

the sort of the off-road version?

Yeah, the tremor.

Tremor.

Right.

It's like the tremor version of it,

which is cool.

I saw that

when they debuted that,

I was up in Detroit for that event.

Um, but

aside from the wonky steering wheel controls,

which are feeling overall in the expedition.

It's a good thing.

I think we're generally fans of this,

this new generation of expedition.

They have made a big effort

with the interior

and some of the, you know,

the attention to detail.

We talked about how they were good

on the truck stuff.

I think they, you know,

they put a lot into this vehicle.

Yeah.

I mean, again,

it's not cheap.

You know, this is another 80, you know,

I think it starts about 66,

but, you know, realistically,

you're going to be probably

paying in the 70s,

as MSRP,

depending on what deal you can get.

So it's, you know,

it starts,

there's another vehicle

that starts getting expensive.

But, you know,

it's a proper old-school American

body on frame based on a truck.

Right.

And if it's not big enough,

you can get the extended rate,

the extended version.

And then the roof box

and basically you've got a house.

Yeah.

Like I said, we were actually going to buy one.

We're in the process of buying one at the moment

for our to live with it for a year.

You know, this is going to be a really popular choice.

If you're going, you know,

if you're going skiing in the winter,

if you're going, you know, on the family trip or whatever,

you can see why people,

I find it a lot in LA.

It's just the sheer size of it.

You know,

I wouldn't say it's cumbersome,

but you're just always aware that it's massive.

Yeah.

But that's a kind of quite a,

you know, quite a coastal phenomenon.

If you're,

you know,

if you're probably somewhere else in the US,

then this size of the vehicle

doesn't matter too much.

And, you know,

you understand the appeal because, you know,

I mean,

I drive an F-150 in LA.

And yeah,

there's decisions you have to make

when you drive a vehicle like that.

It's just like,

you know,

where you park it,

what's going to fit,

you know,

avoid compact spots.

Like, you know,

you just kind of,

you start to figure it out.

And then I get in something like the Hyundai Palisade

that I've been driving this week.

Which is a three-row SUV.

The three-row SUVs are big, yeah.

And I was like,

I can put this thing anywhere.

It just felt,

it didn't feel nearly as big.

And I was just like,

anybody can drive this thing.

But I realize it is a three-row SUV.

It's still a good size SUV.

But after just being in a,

like, an F-150 or something like an expedition,

you know,

a Tahoe,

the, you know,

the Cadillac Escalade,

like, some of those things are big.

Yeah.

It is a unit,

but it does a job.

It is a, you know,

it's a very American tool,

but it could totally,

totally get it.

You've got a bigger family.

You know,

it's just,

it's just a workhorse.

Yeah.

You know, I think they've done a,

they've done a nice job.

And again,

like we were saying about the Palisade

and potential Genesis version.

You know,

we, I was in the platinum,

which is not the top spec.

It's like the mid-range spec.

And that's what we're buying as well.

And you sort of get in and go,

well, what,

what's the Lincoln really going to give me?

You know,

I think the Lincoln's got these like mood music stuff

and, you know, it turns itself into a forest and whatever.

Yeah.

But, you know,

maybe the leather's a little bit nicer.

But I kind of honestly looked and thought

there's nothing really this.

The only thing I thought

what I,

I kind of would have liked was massage seats

as I was sitting in traffic for two hours.

But again,

first of all, problems.

I thought,

I think overall for,

for what the kind of vehicle that it is

and what it's trying to do,

it's a good vehicle.

So you guys are,

could I buy one or you did?

We're in the process of buying one.

Yes.

So that's what you're figuring out the spec is what you want.

Yeah.

I think we're looking.

It's quite hard.

There's not that many around actually.

So, yeah.

I think we go with the mid spec,

the platinum.

You could do a king ranch as well.

But that's,

you know, that's serious money.

It's,

well,

they still worry serious money

because it's still 80 grand,

you know, 78 grand for platinum.

Right.

So you get rid of the,

the mechanical EV

and you step up to the,

yeah.

Well, we try and,

we try and get a balance.

We're very conscious that we're in LA.

You know,

we don't want to just buy LA cars.

You know, the expedition is

a heartland vehicle.

It has been.

Yeah.

So, you know,

we got a lot of good,

we got a lot of good mileage in lots of ways.

We pardon the pun on the,

on the Tahoe.

Lots of people are interested in what we had to say about that.

And, you know,

expedition is the same.

So we've had a Tahoe.

Now we're going for the expedition.

I mean, honestly,

I'm,

I'm curious to,

to get your guys thoughts on,

you know, the next,

you know, the next mammoth road trip

or something with the family

when, you know,

we're going to go to the Lexus,

which is gorgeous.

It's nice.

It's just.

Yeah.

Say money really.

And,

but you want to throw the skis in.

You want to throw the kit in.

You want to throw more people in and.

Yeah.

You know,

is it more comfortable as more space?

What's happening with,

with gas mileage compared to that?

I don't think it's going to be much.

It's not going to be worse than 15.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It's going to be much better,

but it's not going to be worse than that.

No.

It's not going to be worse.

So that'll be an interesting comparison as well.

Yeah.

But, no, I think it's going to be a good,

good addition,

good sort of balance to the team.

Um,

okay.

So,

I think,

I think we're going to wrap things up for today.

Um,

what else is on the docket for you guys?

Yeah.

I know you guys been busy doing all the.

Yeah.

We've been busy stuff.

We've been shooting all the awards.

So,

last week,

which has been a,

Herculean effort.

That goes live in,

uh,

February,

uh,

been in January,

but in February.

Uh,

we have team meeting tomorrow to wrap up the year,

the year and review,

and hopefully a few beers afterwards.

Um,

so yeah,

that's it.

That's it.

Really.

We're just kind of getting everything sorted out and tidied up

and usual,

usual stuff.

I think you and I talked about doing,

uh,

an end of year and review show.

So we'll get that recorded this week as well.

So you'd have to keep everybody entertained on your traveling

to see Antiane at Christmas.

Yep.

All right.

Sounds good.

All right, guys.

Thanks so much for listening.

And, um,

I think we'll get one more,

you know,

one more good show in the can before,

uh,

before the,

uh,

a little break for the,

for the year.

So, uh,

until then,

thanks for listening.

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