CarCast+Edmunds - Kia K4 vs Honda Civic, upcoming Chevy Silverado and Porsche 911 Carrera S vs Supercharged Mustang Dark Horse U-Drags

Hello, welcome to CarCast, I'm Matt, the Motorator, DeAndrea.

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All right, Alistair, how are you doing?

I'm all right, mate.

It's been a bit of a week.

We missed you last week.

I'll delete the show where I signed a bunch of contracts and dealt with a bunch of emails,

but I'm here now.

You've got my full attention.

We missed you last week.

Steve Ewing was with us and we got into a couple of things and we talked a bit about

your Mustang Dark Horse, the Edmunds Mustang Dark Horse.

Now, you guys have talking about, you've been saying this for a few weeks now that doing

the Supercharger on that car didn't feel as fast or as strong as your GT500.

So we dug into last week what the issue was.

Yeah, it's weird because I did the original just to recap everybody.

So basically our Supercharged Dark Horse Mustang Dark Horse went wrong on a track day

and then we led to a whole investigation and a lot of back and forth.

And it turns out an issue with the spark plugs now being put right.

But you then kind of go back and I did the original video after being Supercharged

and I had a test run and actually in the commentary said,

well, it is running faster against the clock, but it doesn't feel

you know, it doesn't subjectively feel that kind of guttural.

It feels faster, but not sort of like massively so not.

And I think I actually said it doesn't feel really like 800 horsepower, which is, you know,

then we had it on the dyno and it kind of had more power, but not that much.

And the thing is, with these things, you don't really have a reference point.

It's not like you've got two lined up.

So, you know, it's it turns out that there was, you know, some errors

with with the way it was all put together.

So we now got to go re and, you know, look, I haven't driven it yet since it was done.

But a couple of the guys on the team have and they said it now feels faster.

Yeah. So what was happening was so we got into all the details

last week while you were out, Steve and I got into it.

And and you can listen to that episode and go through the whole story of what happened there.

But really, it was it was a sensitive issue.

It was the wrong gap on the plugs and the plugs were basically blowing out.

So they were they weren't firing because the the gap was too wide

and at the higher RPMs when it needs, you know, needs to fire and do it quickly.

It wasn't doing it.

So you were losing power at the high end.

So that's why on the dyno, those numbers were low.

And during your U drag races at the end, it like it wasn't it wasn't making

a lot of that top end power.

So, you know, it was a little debacle on the track with a puff of smoke

and this and that and was able to limp the car home.

And after a bit of of searching of listen, knock on wood,

it could have been catastrophic that you could have needed a new engine

could have blown that thing apart, maybe supercharger as well.

And, you know, good to hear that the engine, the Coyote engine is pretty robust.

It's pretty tough, you know, it can take a beating.

And if you guys were able to solve this just with a spark plug swap, then then,

yeah, that's good.

I think a lot of the concerns with that car on the, you know,

on the surface, at least, were really to do with the transmission,

because it doesn't unlike the GT 500, it doesn't have that kind of double

clutch transmission, it has the standard normal automatic gearbox

that you get in the in the standard Mustang.

And suddenly you're shoving 800 horsepower through it.

So that was actually more of a concern than the than anything else.

So if we thought anything was going to go wrong, it was a gearbox.

So it's a bit of relief.

We've got it fixed.

Now we're going to have to rerun the numbers.

So there's maybe do redo a few of the you drag events.

Yeah, we went live this week, really, with a thing against the 9-11 Carrera S

and the Carrera S, I mean, that's a hell of a car.

And you realize how good 9-11's are and it's twice the price.

So but yeah, now I think we'll have to we are planning on some more you drags.

And a lot of people say, oh, we're a bit bored of the dark horse,

but we'll have to find out how much faster it actually is in extreme.

It'll be interesting.

I don't think it's good.

I don't think it's like night and day.

I don't think it's going to go like, you know, a second faster, but we'll see.

We'll see.

You know, and the point last week of like getting into the details

was not so much like a cautionary tale, but just telling people

because Ford Racing sold a lot of supercharger kits, you know, and saying,

listen, this is definitely something you want to look at, even if you're running

a supercharger, one of the supercharger kits on on your Mustang or your dark horse.

You might want to check the plugs, check the gap, you know, replace the plugs,

like get ahead of it, because if it was overlooked,

you know, you don't want to run into a big issue

and potentially breaking that engine.

So the other thing to remember is, you know, we

we put our cars through, you know, we drive our car, you know, certainly our sports cars.

We drive harder than most people would, you know, on on tracks, on,

you know, where we do the the Edmonds, you drags and stuff.

So it's a different life experience.

If you like, we are, if you think about the bell curve,

we're definitely to the far right of that just by the nature of what we do.

And that's deliberate.

We're supposed to be, we're supposed to be on the extreme so that you can kind of

work backwards from there.

So I suspect with a lot of people might be running around with this problem.

And if you're not pushing it to the limit regularly, I mean,

we didn't have the problems when we filmed the Edmonds, you drag series.

So, you know, you might be driving around with this problem and simply not knowing.

100%, that's what we were saying.

Like you could have your supercharged car and you're just driving it around town,

getting on it every now and then, you know, the on ramp and not abusing it as much

as you guys do, which is the point of why you guys have this car.

What you do, I would say abusing to the full extent of it.

Yes, capitalizing, capitalizing on its potential.

I think the thing is, you know, I don't understand arrogant, but, you know,

both of us have got a lot of experience of so many different cars that you do have

an instinctive feel for, like, how fast something is, right?

You know, you know what the weight is, you know what the previous one,

you know what equivalent cars feel like.

So you have that kind of you, you have sort of a tuned backside for these sort of things,

especially if you've been doing this for God, how long?

20, 20, 20, 28 years.

So, you know, you're talking about thousands of cars.

So you do get it, you know, your backside does get kind of honed

to how fast things are and how much weight they've got and everything else.

So, yeah, this thing definitely felt felt.

Yeah, it felt like maybe something was missing.

And so it is so it has proved.

So I'm looking forward to getting back into it and we'll go from there.

Yeah. All right.

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And I've been taking it now for about maybe maybe five weeks or so,

almost six weeks now.

And it was about two weeks into it that I started to feel like.

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You should try it, right?

Goldberg just started it.

His first thing was, he goes, I want to point out it tastes like a monkey's butt.

Now, that's his code.

And I was like, you can only say that if you've tasted a monkey's butt.

Well, he doesn't. He lives on a ranch.

I don't know what's going on. There is monkeys there.

I can't say for sure.

But I got used to it and I don't even think about the taste.

So it's kind of like a non-issue.

But he's been he's been trying it as well.

What's what's your take on it so far? You've been trying it?

Yeah, I think firstly, I would say that, you know, if if if medicine tastes good,

it's probably not working for you. I know this isn't medicine, but it's

there. You know, it's supposed to do some good for you.

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I think I think you get a certain point in life.

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And, you know, there's so much more in the market available now and so much

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And yeah, it's a weird thing because you sort of take this little vial and you're

like, I'm a scientist.

I don't necessarily understand all the all the all the chemicals and all the the

premise of it, not the chemicals, but the premise of it.

But, you know, frankly, anything that helps me get fitter and stronger is a good thing.

I'm going to I'm going to stick on it and I'm going to I'm going to stick with it.

I like what it's doing so far.

So I'm going to give it.

I'm going to give it a few months.

And like I said, on the show with Goldberg, I'm going to share the journey

throughout this process and let you know how things are going.

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So we got like shots of you out your shit and on stuff.

You're doing one of those like the before and after.

No, no, at my age, there's none of those anymore.

Going back to cars for a moment, because we probably we probably should.

I was there was a guy I used to race against who actually won the championship.

I think it was a management consultant or something like professional guy.

And anyway, he was one of these like meticulous guys who you just

realized that he put his mind to something.

He was like all or nothing.

He's a race car was always immaculate.

He was super focused when the rest of us were off like in the bar.

Anyway, then coming out, it was still racing, but then he got into bodybuilding

and next thing I know, walks into a station in London as I flew, flew back to see the family.

And he's there in like a hundred foot high billboard, like covered in baby oil or something.

And now looks like Arnie.

And he's just a lovely guy just gone for that all or nothing.

And he was like, he was an advert for like some protein shake or whatever it was

or some personal training.

And that's just the weirdest thing in the world.

And probably probably killed his racing a little bit.

I mean, I imagine he's just added so much weight that it's probably not good

for driving in catering as it was.

But catering is probably not the best car for for a guy now of that size.

There's a lot of. Yeah, that is that is undeniably true.

It wasn't made good for my height either.

But I think there's a lot of peer pressure where we live in LA.

I mean, LA is a cliche of everybody looks good.

But there's definitely a bit of a bit of peer pressure as well.

I live opposite a celebrity who's kind of famed for his torso.

I'm not going to say his name, but he's famed for his torso

and he walks around the neighborhood without his shirt on.

So, you know, I mean, might as well capitalize on the.

Hey, if you've got it, yeah, I'd like to stress that now

by how much bio pro I take, I'm unlikely to do that.

So it's worth a try this and leave for something.

I feel like it's all got a bit.

It's kind of it's got a bit.

Well, we so we talked about Dark Horse last week and the latest

UDrags video is Dark Horse versus 9 11.

But this is previous fixed Dark Horse.

So to be fair, maybe you can give it another shot one day.

See how how Supercharged Dark Horse does again against.

First of all, I think you should get it on the dyno

that at least report back and say, you know, was there any

noticeable difference on on the dyno?

That's right. Is it just a reliability thing or how much how much faster?

Sure. Yeah. If you watch the film, I think it's still worth watching the film.

It just makes you realize the difference in something like a Mustang,

which, you know, is a well engineered muscle stroke sports car.

And then you get into a 9 11, which in theory has got half the power

and twice the price, half the power.

And then you get into it and you just realize how good the 9 11 is.

Yeah. You know, it's such a it's such a cliche.

And they've got partly because of the tariffs.

They've got more and more expensive, expensive.

It's just Carrera S. I think it's like 180 grand

and 180 grand in a spec that you'd want, not with like,

you know, bespoke leather or anything.

It's getting out of control.

Really good. It's getting out of control.

It is like the prices of those, for sure, getting out of control.

And yeah, like I'm looking at the page on it when you got the one as tested.

One hundred and seventy eight thousand five hundred and thirty five dollars.

This is for a 9 11 S.

It's any and not one, as I said, not one with kind of, you know, bespoke,

you know, bespoke tortoise seats or actually in a specification,

because we're talking about it on the day in a specification that you would

that actually you would choose.

You want things like rear wheel steering, just little little things.

Yeah. That would be right.

It's not like paint the sample or something.

You know, like it took nine months to order and get built.

And it's you know, it's none of that.

But it's a lot of that.

But it's just, you know, these things are made in Germany.

And although I know we're back and forth on the terrace at the moment,

but, you know, Porsche is one of those brands that is actually,

you know, if you look at where the prices have gone, you can see the,

you know, the way the cost is and they're just passing it on to consumers

probably because they they have to.

So yes, we should see.

But then at the other end of the scale, we're talking moment ago, Nissan Nissan

Leaf, you know, all these things like how are we going to start at 28 30?

Well, they just dropped the entry level Nissan Leaf.

And so we will never see it, which is kind of.

So they just cut it from the lineup at all.

Because people well, they didn't cut it from the lineup

because it was never really in the lineup.

It was just announced that it was going to happen.

Yeah. And my understanding is now it isn't going to happen.

It was under $30,000 Nissan Leaf.

And they're like, nah, it was going to be like 28 ish grand.

But that's right.

But I guess they're just going to do whatever the other like the Platinum

plus leaf and some of the other ones.

But I guess the other one maybe had a smaller battery.

But maybe they're just going to do, I guess, they're still going to have

the small battery. I don't want to say small and large

because it's 52 kilowatts and 75 kilowatts.

Two kilowatts is it's small.

Twenty eight K. It kind of makes makes sense.

You know, maybe you're not.

Maybe it's like a second car or maybe it's a city car.

And then a battery of that size is probably OK.

It's got 170 horsepower.

That's probably or would have done if it existed, which again,

like, you're not going to this is not supposed to be a sports car.

It's kind of a night.

The leaf for me and we talked about this on the show weeks ago.

The leaf and cars like it make sense at that price point.

They don't make sense at 40 grand.

They make sense at 30 grand.

The problem is everybody's struggling to sell them,

especially when, you know, in my area and I think pretty much nationwide,

like Ioniq Hyundai on it, 599 books on a lease at the moment.

Yeah, what the biggest bargain out there?

We have this Edmunds Gems deal page

and I'm becoming a bit obsessed with it

because sometimes it's amazing what deals are out there.

Ioniq 5199 a month because we thinking about leasing one

because I was like, my wife was like, I don't really like the way it looks.

That's like 199 bucks a month.

She's like, it's growing on me.

It's growing on me.

I'm starting to like it.

Yeah, what color options are there?

We can wrap it. Yeah.

Yeah, we could maybe there's something there.

So I wanted to ask you this and we didn't really prepare for this.

We're just kind of riffing here on this.

But the the idea of Nissan Leaf

cutting the base model, right?

And we've we've actually seen this a few times with different car companies,

maybe more so in in the US than in other places

where they just want the tiny inexpensive car.

How do you think that bodes for a company like Slate?

Because I'm still cautionary on a company like Slate going,

hey, we got the base models.

Like, I know, but it's stripped down with nothing in it is 30 grand.

And now you're going to add all this stuff.

Do you think anyone's going to go for the stripped down

really just nothing Slate and then other than maybe some YouTubers?

And then they go, we're going to start 3D printing all this stuff

and make fancy things for it.

But I just think we have a hard time selling

like the cheapest version of something out here.

So we believe in what we do prep for this show most of the time.

So there's now now shooting from the it might not sound like it when we speak.

But so what do we think of the slate?

What do we think of entry level slate?

I mean, is everyone going to buy a $40,000 slate and go, I need a radio

and I need speakers and I need this and I need air conditioning

and I need whatever the options are and go.

Yeah, that was my problem when I went to see that.

That's been my problem with the slate from the start.

That when I first went to see them.

But when the TV tax credit was still in place, they were like, OK,

you know, you're going to be able to buy one for like 18 grand

because we've taken all the cost out of it.

And, you know, you've got a tax credit, it's going to be 18 grand.

That's fantastic.

And then, you know, the tax credit is gone.

So it's now at 25.

And then you start to kind of, as you say, you say, well, the 25 grand

one or the 30 grand version, I have it lines up in the end.

That hasn't got a radio. OK.

So while we don't mean a radio, I mean, like any form of playing music.

So it's like, well, we're just going to get like an iPad or whatever

on the thing and then like speakers that will sit in the doors.

OK, that's a few hundred bucks, probably all in.

And then you need this, then you need this.

And then for me, that car only that car is super appealing

at that lower price point.

So I think it's going to depend where that kind of break even point is.

Because what do I want?

And what do I need in one of those?

I bring you any day conditioning.

I live in LA, so that's a given.

And I think all of them will have air conditioning, if I remember correctly.

And then I need some gadget, which gives me music and navigation, probably.

You know, traffic navigation.

So frankly, like a five hundred dollar iPad with cellular or something

that I could bolt to the dashboard or is in a frame, probably does me.

You know, maybe a couple of speakers in the door.

Yeah, or yeah, you're right.

Or some Bluetooth speakers in the door or a way to just like set your phone up

on a on a mount on the dash and just have it plug into some speakers.

I mean, with my classic car till I fitted one of those aftermarket

fancy retro systems, I literally did that.

I had a Bluetooth speaker in the car, like a Bose Bluetooth speaker.

It cost me like a hundred bucks and my phone.

And if I wanted to listen to music, I just I just use that and it worked pretty well.

And if I'd had two of them and hung them from the door, I'd have had stereo

and all would have been well with the world.

So yeah, I then if you want the SUV version and you want this and you want that,

then you're getting up to 40 grand.

The problem I have with the slate is that when you look at the Maverick,

the Maverick is so good, particularly in hybrid trim for 30 grand.

Yeah, you've got to really want the electric truck

or you've got to really want the novelty of the slate and everything else,

particularly as it's the range is going to be pretty small and everything else.

My concern for them is, you know, surely, you know, our slate is going to be cool.

Oh, hang on a minute, I'll just buy a Maverick.

Right. And with companies like Ford,

since you mentioned them, working on this EV platform

that they want to come out with this modular thing.

And now they're saying, you know, there's a $30,000 EV truck sort of in the works

floating around within Ford, maybe a little bigger than a Maverick,

maybe a little smaller than Ranger or around Ranger size,

but something along the line to that.

And if that really does come out at 30ish grand,

like makes slate a hard sell.

I think the Slate's problem is probably not year one.

It's down the line.

So I think there'll be a bunch.

I was surprised at how many people, how much first there was around the launch.

I mean, our coverage got hundreds of thousands of views.

And I think that was replicated across across the industry.

So there's a lot of interest in it.

There'll be probably a lot of people buy it.

You know, there'll be a lot of people like bespoke.

You say that there'll be a YouTuber favorite because you can do so much with it.

But the problem with all these vehicles is you send

I drove the Ineos Grenadier quartermaster, which is the Ineos truck.

You never heard of it.

It's a British startup brand trying to bring back the spirit

of the original Land Rover Defender.

And they started off because I was at the original launch of PubSync.

We want to do a back to basics vehicle that when it falls over

in the African wilderness, you can fix.

And then I was talking to the owner's son at an event

to relaunch the vehicle or to relaunch the tweak of the vehicle

and pretty much open that, yeah, well, once we started off on that journey,

then we realized that you've got this legislation and this emissions

and then this and this and this and this.

And I think Slate kind of ends up in the same place

that you've got to have certain safety requirements.

Right. Everybody wants air conditioning.

Everybody wants navigation.

You've got to be one who wants to listen to a car cast.

You know, you've got all these things that have to be bolted into the truck.

And then you all end up in the same place.

Yeah, I I mean, to me,

without really like seeing the slate and digging into it,

like I it would be interesting if like all of the body panels

were just like some sort of composite and super inexpensive and modular.

And and just go, listen, I, you know, I drive it around.

I use it as a shop truck or something like that or a work truck or whatever.

And, you know, I backed into something, you know, or a hit something.

But, you know, I just bought a front fender that comes right from Slate

and it's plastic and it's painted and it's one hundred and ninety nine bucks.

And I just put it on and I was just like, OK, you know, like without

fussing with body work and all that stuff, like remove a bunch of bolts,

it ships to you, it's painted or wrapped or whatever the slate comes in.

And if I can just put that on, that would be that would be interesting.

That would be super.

Looking at wrapping or just, I mean, for me,

the coolest thing would just be to have the plastic, you know, just the raw plastic.

Yeah. And, you know, I think for the sun, not

having to kill others, gardeners, that sort of profession where you don't need

a massive truck, you know, handyman, that kind of thing.

Handy people, I should say, then it makes a lot of sense.

And then, you know, all for all is like a fun thing for, you know, like a little surf wagon.

I think it could be really cool to check the surfboard in the back,

check the bikes in the back, not have to care about it because it's just a plastic

white plane. So I like the kind of utilitarian chic of it.

I wish them success.

It's a really bold choice.

And everybody said, oh, yeah, but Jeff Bezos is behind it.

And Larry Ellis has got money in it.

Yeah, but they've got money in tons of things.

You know, it's investment funds have money in all sorts of things, you know,

and they accept that some or some some will work and some won't.

Right.

OK, so.

You know, slate could be interesting.

I'm excited.

This new EV platform from Ford, like we need to get.

I definitely see car companies trying to get to that like $30,000 mark

for for, you know, trying to package the most amount of car for that kind of money.

I think that's what we're seeing a lot of right now.

I think the weirdest thing at the moment with the whole EV market.

And I talk about this a lot on the on the show is.

It's such a it's so depressed at the moment and the cars that are selling

are selling with so much incentive behind them.

That you just.

Wonder where it where it all lands.

And, you know, I remember talking to Caddy's execs last year and they're like,

right, it's going to dip after the end of the tax break.

And then history suggests or analysis suggests you then start a slow road

of recovery and eventually you get to, you know, this becoming the dominant power source.

But everybody's so down on EVs at the moment, whether it be the politics or anything.

Well, I just don't feel it in the market.

You don't feel that kind of every, you know, people, we don't.

And we see it in our site traffic, both on YouTube and on Edmunds.com itself.

There just isn't the level of interest.

People have just switched off from them.

Right, like all the fresh new hotness has kind of died down a little bit.

And now things are settling.

But one that we have been talking about for the past couple of weeks

and since the Edmunds top rated and with Steve last week is the Honda Civic

hybrid around that 30 to $35,000 mark.

But that's not the only option out there.

You guys recently got your hands on the Kia K4.

How does that compare to the Honda?

Because we all obviously like the Honda.

Took the top.

Yeah, if you head to our, if you head to our website or our YouTube

and we got just in a film with the K4 hatchback against the Civic hybrid.

I actually had a driver that was down the test track and I had a few laps in the

in the K4. It's a really handsome car.

I mean, the K4 sedan, I think it's a bit odd looking because the wheels

always look a bit small and there's portions about the hatchback.

I think is a really is a really handsome car.

I don't think any driving that around.

I don't think anybody thinks that's the $30,000 car.

It's both inside and out.

It looks really, really good.

So it's basically the K4 sedan with basically it's kind of backside

chopped off and a hatchback, but it's got decent practicality.

Not a huge trunk, but probably big enough for most people.

Decent rear space, more than the Civic, and it's just a lot cooler looking than Civic.

We kind of came to the conclusion that on an objective basis,

the Civic still a slightly better vehicle, kind of like the hybrid system

and everything else. But this Kia, I think all of us,

it turned up in like a crazy gold paint.

If you're watching on YouTube, you can see that.

And all of us like, this is a cool looking thing.

And I can't remember what else we had in that day,

but I remember remarking that we were all interested in a 30 grand Kia hatchback

because it looked cool, it was interesting.

You know, a lot of the interior detailing is good.

And again, it's like one of those cars where you look at what you get for your money.

And that's 33,000 was and I think that is in absolute top trim.

So that's GT line turbo with like the option pack.

You've got ventilated.

Just looking at my notes here.

Surround view camera, ventilated front seats.

Now, that's not hybrid, though. That's gas only.

No, that's gas. Yeah.

But it's pretty much got, you know, 12.3 inch touch screen.

It's kind of got everything that you need.

Air conditioning, obviously, car play, blah, blah, blah.

It's kind of like it's a lot of car.

Yes, it's not hybrid when the Civic is.

And that does make a difference.

But that Kia is a nice thing.

I don't think you apologize.

I don't think that it has any apologies at all.

I think it's it's just a really nice car at, you know, at a price point,

which is way more affordable.

And without because I haven't really seen many on the road,

at least not that I've noticed yet.

How does it compare in size to like Ioniq five, which we see all over in L.A.

So because of the packaging, because Ioniq five is electric,

the Ioniq five is huge.

I mean, the Ioniq five is already bigger than you think,

because it looks like you kind of mark one golf.

So you're especially if you're our age, your brain says that it's a small hatchback.

It's actually quite a big SUV.

But also because Hyundai has done a fantastic job with the packaging in that car,

even if you have the two motor version, there's a lot of room inside.

The rear seats, massive, the trunks are good size.

So the K four, you know, is a more traditional gas car, it's smaller.

You know, you don't get that volume inside.

But it's still it's still more than enough for most people's needs.

A little bit more room in the rear than in the Civic.

So again, it's it's, you know, it's it's nice that you can, you know,

these are supposed to be value propositions kind of entry level cars

that, you know, start something about twenty five thousand.

Yeah. But I don't think you look at it and say that's a twenty five thousand car.

I think you feel pretty, you know, you feel good about that.

Yeah. OK.

Um, so I want to talk about a truck as well.

So a little while ago, you were talking to the the brass over at

at General Motors, the big cheese, the big cheese.

But before we get into it, we got to take a quick break

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Okay, so I want to talk, yeah, Chevy Silverado, right?

There's a new Silverado in the works.

But also, oh, before I forget, maybe we hit this next week,

but I've been putting together a list of cars that I haven't had a chance to get into yet

and put together.

So now we've got a bunch of stuff scheduled.

Some of them are things that have been tested and we've talked about before,

but some of them are just sort of new to me as far as driving impressions.

So maybe we'll get into some more next week because I've got Volvo XC60 that I've been driving right now

and Toyota Crown coming and we haven't really had any covers.

I've driven the Crown SUV.

Yeah.

And that's a nice, it's a weird car because you're like, hang on, this is, is this a Lexus?

No, you've got like Toyota Crown Lexus and it's supposed to fill the gap.

It's like a posh Toyota.

And I was like, isn't the posh Toyota a Lexus?

A Lexus.

So that's exactly what Tammy asked me.

She's like, what's a Toyota Crown?

I said, it's a really nice Toyota.

She said, so Lexus.

And I was like, no, it's the really nice Toyota.

It's like, when the VW come out with the Faten, right?

It was like the real, and you're like, but isn't that just like an A8 or whatever?

And they're like, yeah, but it's VW and it had like power AC vents that folded and whatever.

Well, the Faten was phenomenal.

I went to the launch in Dresden, famous for being bombed, to be honest.

But they said they could hang a Mark IV Golf off the door frame.

I remember this was like the big thing.

They stood up and said, oh, we can send, you know, we can, why?

Yeah, why?

And it weighed, I remember back in, I know, this is before, I remember it weighed like, it weighed a spectacular amount.

So Audi had the A8, which is aluminum, and then the Phaeton.

If you can get one, they're probably a really cool car now because they're actually pretty good.

But it was just massively heavy and massively over engineered and they did it because they could.

But what was the question?

Well, what I was saying is, is when that came out, I was like, why isn't this just an Audi A8?

Why did they need to do a really, really nice, expensive Volkswagen?

But they needed some flagships.

So Toyota's trying to do that with the Crown, but it never really caught on.

It's like it's not popping up in a lot of conversations.

Like we're not really talking about.

Anyway, I've got it on the list.

So maybe the next week or so.

I like the Crown SUV.

I like it.

It's one of those cars you go like, nobody's ever heard of this because they're not putting any marketing money behind it.

So you don't see any, which is most people a good thing.

And I actually, I've been interested in what you think of it because I like the SUV.

I think it's a little bit different.

It's a weird proposition between Toyota and Lexus.

But it's cool.

Actually, going back that fate on, so going off on one now, that wasn't the weirdest thing that they did.

This was when Ferdinand Pieck, who was basically the Lord and Controller in those days.

It was here, that wasn't the weirdest car they did.

They did a W8 Passat with a W-A engine.

Yes.

And they did, in Europe, they did a V10 diesel SUV, V10 diesel Tuareg.

Which was the weirdest thing.

Imagine how heavy a V10 diesel engine is.

Yeah.

Just like you turned a corner and it like waited five minutes to turn.

It was, but it was an amazing engine.

I imagine the talk of a V10 diesel.

So yeah, the fate on was weird, but there was all sorts of weird stuff going on in Volkswagen at that time.

I mean, and we talk about now how there seems to be so much crossover between like what Hyundai is doing with creeping up on Genesis.

I mean, but Genesis is more expensive, but it's like, yeah, but is it worth it?

Because like some of the high-end trim models of Hyundai are so good.

Yeah.

But anyway, that has nothing to do with trucks.

Let's talk about trucks.

Let's talk about Chevrolet.

Well, this is a big thing for them, right?

Because they sell a lot of trucks so you can invest a lot of money.

You can spend over a billion dollars or whatever they're investing now into a refresh or a new platform of a truck.

So what are we looking at?

Because also you spoke to somebody about it.

Yeah, I spoke to Duncan Aldridge, who's the president of GM a handful of weeks ago.

And I think it had not been officially announced, but he wasn't hiding the fact that the Silverado is on its way.

And this is a big opportunity for GM because they will be in market before the new F-150, before the new Ram 1500.

So they will be the new truck in town.

So I think it's a really exciting opportunity for them.

We've managed to get hold of these.

There are people go around taking spy photographs of vehicles and then selling them to publications like ours.

It's been going on for decades.

I mean, going back in the day, some of these guys got really genuinely rich off selling spy photographs.

And so we've got these spy photographs of a camouflaged new Silverado and everybody then starts to kind of extrapolate little bits from it.

It certainly, from what we can tell, it looks like they've redesigned the rear suspension because the shock absorbers have moved.

Not surprisingly, it's going to have big screens inside because that's what every new GM interior has.

And that's very much in vogue at the moment.

So the shots, you can start to see the big screens.

It's a little bit of unsure on where we're going on the powertrain.

There's definitely going to have the VAs.

It's definitely going to have diesel.

You know, they haven't at the moment got the, you know, where are they going with hybrids?

It feels like they need a hybrid, but it's pretty, you know, nothing's really been announced on that score.

And then I don't, you know, there's no talk at the moment.

They've got, obviously they've got the electric Silverado, which will continue and is a separate vehicle to this.

So that will continue along a parallel track.

And then this is all about gas engines.

And at the moment, no talk of hybrid, but I thought they would have to have a hybrid at some point.

I would think so.

I mean, at the very least, what Ford's doing with their hybrid, their power boost,

that is doing well enough for them to continue down that path of a hybrid path.

So, yeah.

Yeah, this looks, this looks okay.

You know, I mean, it's camouflage and it looks like a truck.

Yeah, I think the last generation Silverado, when it first came out,

the biggest problem with it was the interior was a bit rubbish.

And then when they did the mid-life facelift, they really improved the interior and it got a lot better.

And it was never our favorite truck, but at least it was then in the game.

So I think, you know, you'll see more of the, more of the same.

And just interesting, as you're going through the pitch, it's got quad exhaust pipes and things like that.

And so, you know, and you, if you've been around a bit, you get, you get used to looking at these spy shots.

This is quite, you know, this is quite a long way down the road of development.

It's got, it's got camouflage on it, but it hasn't got loads of kind of cladding on it.

It looks fairly, it looks fairly well sorted.

So we're expecting to see it this year.

I'm not sure it's going to be on sale this year, but it will be, it will be a 27 model year.

And whether we're saying actually, you know, in our piece, as you've got it on the screen,

maybe on sale as early as the fall 2026.

But yeah, I see.

So maybe hitting, starting to show rooms at the end of this year as a 27.

I know I mentioned this before, but interesting thing with the car manufacturers when it comes to trucks

compared to some of the other things, like you'll see car manufacturers and they're like,

we're pushing the limits.

This is the future of design.

Everything's on a touchscreen and, and we want you to like wave your hand in a circle to turn up the volume,

like whatever BMW is doing, right?

And they're like, they're, they're trying to change the behavior of everybody going,

this is going to be the future, this is going to be the future.

Unless you go to a press event where the manufacturer makes trucks,

everything they say is we listen to you, the customer.

We went to the job sites.

We went to, you know, we went here and we towed everything and we listen to you.

We listen to you.

And they're like, you wanted steps and you wanted more power and you wanted power tailgates

that open in five different directions.

And like, this is what you wanted.

We listen to you, but you go to BMW and they're like, you don't want power AC events,

but we're giving you those and it's going to annoy the hell out of you.

And we're going to give you air fresheners inside and hand gestures that you wave in the air.

And they're like, that's the future of automotive, but not the truck.

When I, when I lived in Europe, I remember coming over with a bunch of fairly cynical Brits

and being at some sort of like American truck launch.

And, you know, it was like, you come out from some Mercedes, all these kind of Germanic engineering

and then your riot truck thing.

It's exactly what you said, you know, you know, we've now got 16 cup holders.

Right?

Yeah.

More storage.

We've now got 18 different cup holders and we've got a ruler built into this and you

got, but at least it sort of makes sense.

A lot of the, like the F 150 is good at that and having fold out picnic tables so you can

eat the taco table and whatever it's called.

And there's, there's, I like it.

I think that there are a lot of the clever thinking or the clever functionality has been

in the truck market, partly because you've got space to do stuff.

Yeah.

But you're right.

I mean, compared to the car world, the trucks, I think they do, you know, they do think about

how people use them and it is.

Take this however you want.

But when you look at trucks and they go, we listen to you, we listen to you.

And then you look at some of these cars and like, this is going to be the future.

We're going to change your behavior.

And then you look at the sales of all of these vehicles, the listen to you trucks outsell

everything else that they're trying to push on us.

I get it.

I love, I love big trucks.

I mean, I wouldn't, they're a bit too big for where I live, but whenever I go on like

a family vacation, you know, if we have a, we have a big truck on the fleet, we have

a Ram 1500.

And like my dad was over and went out to Palm Springs.

I'm like, I'm taking the truck because she got tons of space.

It's fun, you know, and it's like a luxury car now.

I'm, I'm, I'm all in.

So Silverado this year, then I think F 150 will be next year.

Ram will be behind that.

So Chevy's got a Chevy's got an opportunity here and they, you know, let's hope it's good.

Funny moment the other day, cause I said I was driving the Volvo.

So I get in the, I get in my truck all the time and my, my little dogs, they jump in with

me.

And the one sitting next to me, Henry, he flies in, jumps up the step onto the seat and sits

on the center console.

And in my truck and my F 150, he's got this beautiful flat, like 14 inch by 10 inch wide,

you know, a podium for him to sit on and stare out the window and loves it.

And then we, we got into the most of the press cars, the small ones, but got into the, to

the Volvo and he got in there and he's like, I don't know where to put my feet.

I don't know where my legs are going to go.

I've fallen off the center console and I'm pushing buttons and all of a sudden, you know,

like the, the start stop is going on and off and the, the, the windows are going down and

he's just trying to figure out, he's like, where do I go?

Where do I go?

And I was like, oh, you missed your big truck, buddy, don't you?

So there's, there's a little, you know, a little bit of that for sure, but you're right.

There's something to say about having, having the big truck, which is why SUVs and stuff

like that are so popular out here.

I'm getting used to it.

It's a couple of years now, getting used to driving an F 150 around LA.

I, I, I did lower it and the suspension's rough and it beats everybody up, but it, the

couple of inches that it lowered changed the game as far as where I can park it, especially

with all the garages out here.

Yeah, that's a good point.

You know, and that, that made all the difference.

Like most garages I can fit into now.

Before I was like, you know, that's kind of on the edge.

I don't know if we should fit in there.

Maybe we should park someplace else, but that's, that's the difference for sure.

Okay.

So what else is coming up?

We'll wrap things up, but what else is going on in the docket for you?

What else we got?

And for you, I mean, Edmonds.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I'm, you know, I'm hoping looking, looking forward to sushi this evening.

Yeah.

It's kind of like, no one, no one cares if we're going to go to the Japanese sushi today.

Yeah.

It's going to have a go to the gym, then stick it, you know, have a glass of wine and does

that defeat the object?

What, what do we got coming out?

I mean, the moment, obviously a lot of the focus is still on the Edmonds top rate awards

which came out.

So if you haven't seen those Edmonds.com slash top rated, we've got a whole bunch of events.

We've got people flying, flying around the world.

There's a few things that were, you know, we're excited to, to, to see coming up.

Rivian R1 2 is coming up in the not too distant future.

Excited to, to see that.

That's been, you know, that's been a while coming.

So, you know, it's an EV, but you know, it's kind of, kind of, it's a cool brand.

And I think that one can get some, can get some cut through.

And then, yeah, a whole bunch of things coming to test right.

We've got a, we've got a, an interesting guy's about to tell you what it was.

And I realized that I can't tell you what it was because it's exclusive.

So we can probably talk about it on the show in a couple of weeks time.

Yep. Well, lots of exciting things I can't talk about.

I'm sure, I'm sure we will get into that stuff.

Yeah. Okay.

So let's sort of wrap things up, you guys.

Check out Edmunds.com and of course, check out the Edmunds YouTube channel.

And of course, the CarCast YouTube channel.

All of these podcasts are up there.

So if you want to watch us instead of just hear us, you can do that.

You can do that.

Especially how you're getting ripped on your bio pro.

Get there.

All right, guys.

Thanks so much.

And until next time, keep the air and the spare and the bag and the wheel.

CarCast+Edmunds - Kia K4 vs Honda Civic, upcoming Chevy Silverado and Porsche 911 Carrera S vs Supercharged Mustang Dark Horse U-Drags

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