Dealers are feeling the squeeze as leads don’t convert and stock piles up, while the wider market wrestles with EV uncertainty, policy delays, and consumer confidence. Chris Green of Reddit/Digital Garage explains why charging quality and home-driveway access are holding EV adoption back, and why lead-gen models are wobbling in volatility. The panel also covers Car Giant’s potential cash-out and redundancies, Lamborghini’s mixed results, a CMA investigation into alleged fake reviews involving Auto Trader, and a VAT “hijack” scam targeting dealers. The Peter Waddell High Court case adds legal drama.
"The car dealer podcast is sponsored by AutoTrader... with more than 84 million consumer visits every month, it connects us with more engaged car buyers and delivers more deals than anyone else in the UK."
AutoTrader is a website where people look for cars to buy. Dealers use it to show their stock and get in touch with buyers who are actively searching.
AutoTrader is a major UK online marketplace for buying and selling cars. In this ad, it’s positioned as a way for dealers to reach high-intent shoppers and generate leads.
"And now, with the launch of buying signals, we'll have brand new insights on every deal showing how likely a customer is to buy the car they're interested in."
Buying signals are like a prediction tool that tries to guess who’s more likely to actually buy a car. It helps dealers focus on the buyers who are most ready to purchase.
“Buying signals” refers to data-driven indicators that estimate how likely a shopper is to buy the specific car they’re viewing. For dealers, this kind of targeting is meant to improve lead quality and conversion.
"But we had a huge amount of cars turn up this week. We had 20 cars arrive on Monday and Tuesday. So we've now got 45 cars in stock."
“Cars in stock” refers to the dealer’s current inventory available for sale. Inventory levels matter because they affect pricing pressure, customer wait times, and how aggressively a dealer needs to source new vehicles.
"...if you listen to Lisa Branking from Ford... the biggest problems they've got is they cannot sell an electric vehicle to somebody who doesn't have a driveway..."
Ford is talking about electric cars and why they’re hard to sell to some people. If someone doesn’t have a driveway or a place to charge at home, owning an EV can be much more difficult.
Ford is using the current EV market as an example of how home charging access can make or break sales. The point is that many buyers can’t charge an electric vehicle at home if they don’t have off-street parking.
"you can buy a warranty for a used car quite easy and quite freely if you want to hang on. And the SMNT starts to say that people are hanging on to their cars longer,"
When you buy a used car, you can sometimes add extra coverage so repairs are paid for if something breaks. It’s like insurance for the car, but you have to check what it actually covers.
The speaker is talking about purchasing an extended/used-car warranty after buying a pre-owned vehicle. These warranties can reduce the risk of unexpected repair bills, but the coverage terms and exclusions vary a lot by provider and policy.
"Always got them on a PCP, whether it's BMW, Mercedes. And the simple fact is to convert to full electric to stay with those brands was just too expensive."
Mercedes is another major German car brand. The speaker is saying that going fully electric with that kind of brand was too expensive for them.
Mercedes-Benz is mentioned alongside BMW as a German brand the speaker has previously leased/financed. It’s part of the argument that full-electric versions from these brands can be costly compared with alternatives.
"depending on where you are in the country on charging your electric vehicle. And I'm talking about convenience. I'm talking about speed."
An electric vehicle is a car that uses electricity stored in a battery. Instead of filling up at a gas station, you charge it—usually at public charging points.
An electric vehicle (EV) runs on an electric motor powered by a battery instead of a gasoline or diesel engine. In this segment, the discussion focuses on how EV charging availability and pricing affect real-world travel.
"not having to wait around while people are queuing for electric chargers or they're full"
Queueing happens when multiple EV drivers arrive at the same time and chargers are occupied. The segment treats queueing as a major real-world downside that can turn a planned stop into a long delay.
"No, it's probably why when was I when I let I was 29 when I left BMW. And years before that, I was Volkswagen, Audi, Smith Night Faye group, Ian Anthony, BMW, I've worked for Vauxhall,"
BMW is a well-known car brand from Germany. The speaker is talking about his time working for BMW and how that shaped his approach to selling cars.
BMW is a major German automaker with a large dealer and used-car network. In the segment, the speaker’s career history with BMW is central to how he learned to use early internet leads for car sales.
"And years before that, I was Volkswagen, Audi, Smith Night Faye group, Ian Anthony, BMW, I've worked for Vauxhall,"
Volkswagen is a big car brand that makes everyday cars as well as performance models. Here it’s mentioned as part of the speaker’s work history before BMW.
Volkswagen (VW) is a large German automaker known for high-volume models and broad dealer networks. The speaker lists it among the brands he worked for, highlighting how dealership experience spans multiple manufacturers.
"I was Volkswagen, Audi, Smith Night Faye group, Ian Anthony, BMW, I've worked for Vauxhall,"
Audi is another major German car brand, usually considered more premium than mainstream brands. It’s included here to show the speaker’s background across multiple dealerships.
Audi is a German automaker that often competes in the premium segment. Mentioning Audi alongside Volkswagen and BMW underscores the speaker’s experience selling across different price tiers and customer expectations.
"The websites didn't even exist back then. It was starting to become a thing. I was a bit of an early, early adopter to the internet. And when my last job at BMW, though, we would get dial up internet inquiries..."
Being an “early adopter” means using a new technology before most competitors. Here, the speaker emphasizes that he embraced early internet inquiries and websites when the industry was still mostly offline.
"And when my last job at BMW, though, we would get dial up internet inquiries coming from the likes of London and Scotland. And some of the older guys there would would be terrified of dealing with them. I embraced them."
Dial-up was the old, slow way of getting online using a phone connection. The speaker is saying that even back then, people were already sending car enquiry messages online.
Dial-up internet was an early form of internet access using a telephone line, with slow connection speeds. In this context, it highlights how early online car enquiries were coming in even before modern websites and online shopping became common.
"because BMW used cars back then, especially the empowered stuff. They were very unique, particular colours, particular specs, particular milages."
Used cars are pre-owned vehicles sold through dealers rather than new from the factory. The speaker describes how BMW used cars had specific colors/specs and how he delivered them to customers in remote areas.
"...automotive first-party data and helping manufacturers and ad agencies with car launches across buying, selling and maintaining. Obviously, the after-sales play is a big play for us as well. So you're very close to the lead side of this industry, aren't you?"
Lead generation is how businesses find people who might buy a car. They try to get those people to ask for info (like a quote) so the dealer can contact them.
Lead generation is the process of attracting potential customers and capturing their contact details so dealers or advertisers can follow up. In automotive, it often means driving people to request quotes, book test drives, or enquire about financing.
"...the after-sales play is a big play for us as well. So you're very close to the lead side of this industry, aren't you? And that really is the take on what the demand is like out there at the moment."
After-sales is what happens after you buy the car—like servicing, repairs, and buying parts. It’s important because it can bring customers back again and again.
An “after-sales” strategy focuses on what happens after a customer buys a vehicle—service, repairs, parts, warranties, and maintenance. For automotive marketing/data firms, after-sales can be a major source of recurring revenue and customer retention.
"I probably held on to my Mercedes longer than I probably would have done before I got the Polestar 4. Again, took me a year to decide what to do. And it eventually went all in on EV because the deal was incredible."
Polestar 4 is an electric vehicle (EV) referenced as the speaker’s trigger for finally changing cars. The discussion uses it to illustrate how EV adoption can still happen, but often depends on timing, incentives, and perceived deal value.
"...mortgage rates coming down the Bank of England was talking about probably another two mortgage rate drops in the next six months."
The Bank of England is the UK’s main central bank. When it signals interest-rate changes, it can affect monthly costs for people, which can make them hold off on buying a car.
The Bank of England is the UK’s central bank and sets monetary policy that affects interest rates. The speaker references it to explain expectations for future rate cuts, which ties into consumer uncertainty and delayed car buying.
"But I'll take us back before COVID, James. If you remember, diesel was before COVID was really starting to get a really hard time."
Diesel is a type of car engine that uses a different fuel-burning method than petrol. In recent years, diesel has become less popular because of emissions rules and concerns.
Diesel refers to compression-ignition engines that historically made up a large share of European car sales. In the UK, diesel demand has been heavily impacted by regulation, emissions scrutiny, and shifting consumer preferences over the past decade.
"And he said, in five years time on the trending traction we've got, we will not have an automotive industry in the UK. And I don't think I've ever been hit so hard reading one line reposted by Robert Forrester."
They’re talking about how the car business in the UK might be affected by government decisions. It’s basically about whether the industry can keep going strong or gets squeezed.
The speaker is discussing the state of the automotive industry specifically in the UK, implying policy and economic pressures on dealers and manufacturers. For listeners, this frames why car retailing and supply chains can feel unstable during periods of regulatory change.
"...They reiterated their previous statements that Car Giant is currently engaged in a formal collective consultation process with employees in relation to the proposals that may affect the future structure of the business."
This is a formal process for when a company may need to make bigger job cuts. It involves talking through the changes with employee representatives before final decisions.
A “formal collective consultation process” is a structured legal process for larger-scale workforce changes, typically involving employee representatives and set timelines. In dealership businesses, it often accompanies restructuring of sites, headcount, or the overall business model.
"So it is difficult. It is difficult out there at the moment. And perhaps Car Giant's owners have just decided now's the time to cash in, but we'll find out on April 24."
They’re talking about Car Giant, a company that sells used cars. The hosts are discussing whether the owners might be trying to sell the business now because the market outlook is uncertain.
Car Giant is discussed as a used-car retailer operating “used car supermarkets.” The episode frames it as a business that may be looking for a buyer and timing an exit based on market conditions.
"What will the P&L look like? What does profitability look like?"
P&L is short for “profit and loss.” It’s basically a summary of whether the business is making money after costs.
P&L means “profit and loss,” a financial statement showing revenue, costs, and profit over a period. In this context, the speaker is discussing how profitability may change over the next four or five years.
"...Bentley obviously haven't had very good results, and they're making lots of people redundant."
Redundancies are job cuts due to restructuring, cost reduction, or declining business performance. The segment uses redundancies at Bentley as evidence that some luxury automakers are responding to weaker results and margin challenges.
"...this year, it's not doing so well because of this US pressure around tariffs."
Tariffs are extra taxes on imported products. If cars or parts get taxed, companies can face higher costs and lower profits.
Tariffs are taxes imposed on imported goods, which can raise costs for automakers and their supply chains. The segment links US tariff pressure to margin pressure and weaker performance for certain luxury brands.
"Sarah Cardell, the chief executive of the CMA said, fake reviews strike at the heart of consumer trust..."
Sarah Cardell is identified as the chief executive of the CMA. Her quote frames the investigation as a consumer-trust issue, emphasizing the harm caused by misleading review content.
"we note the CMA, we note that the CMA exercising its new direct consumer enforcement powers has today announced investigation into a number of companies, including Auto Trader and our third party moderator in relation to online consumer reviews."
CMA is a UK government body that polices fair competition and consumer protection. Here, they’re investigating how online reviews are handled and whether consumers are being treated fairly.
The CMA (Competition and Markets Authority) is the UK’s competition and consumer-protection regulator. In this segment, it’s described as using “direct consumer enforcement powers” to investigate companies over online consumer reviews.
"That's the thing. I mean, if they're fake reviews, these platforms absolutely should remove them. You know, maybe that's where this has been caught up."
Fake reviews are made-up complaints or praise that aren’t real customer experiences. They can trick people into trusting (or avoiding) a business unfairly.
Fake reviews are fabricated customer feedback intended to mislead others about a business’s products or services. The segment argues that review platforms should remove fake reviews, implying potential consumer harm and compliance issues.
"and they submit fraudulent returns and they change the bank details and they pocket the money that's coming back from HMRC."
HMRC sends VAT repayments to the bank account on file. Scammers change that information so the money goes to them.
Bank details are used by HMRC to determine where VAT repayments are sent. VAT hijackers change bank details so repayments go to the fraudsters instead of the business.
"everybody said to me in the comments and sent me messages saying an HMRC letter always turns up in a brown envelope, you should know that. Well, I didn't know that because I haven't had one before"
HMRC is the UK tax office. Scammers sometimes send fake HMRC letters that look official to trick people into responding or sharing information.
HMRC is the UK’s tax authority (Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs). Fraudsters may send fake “HMRC letters” to target businesses and dealers, often using realistic formatting and envelopes to increase trust.
"to just scrape that information. You know, scraping information like you see businesses scraping car ads to a degree."
Scraping means pulling data from websites automatically. It can be used for normal marketing, but it can also help scammers target people.
“Scraping” is automated extraction of data from websites. In this context, it’s used to copy details from company records and car ads, which can then be used for marketing, lead generation, or fraud.
"...including the headline speakers uh Nicola Dobson from Peugeot Sohib from Infinity and Ginny from Electrify..."
Peugeot is a well-known car brand from France. They’re often involved in marketing and business partnerships that can affect how cars are sold and serviced.
Peugeot is a major French automaker, part of Stellantis. In dealer/policy discussions, Peugeot often comes up because of brand-specific marketing, incentives, and aftersales programs.
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The car dealer podcast is sponsored by AutoTrader.
John, have you ever wondered why I, along with 14,000 other dealers, choose to partner
with AutoTrader?
Well, actually, I didn't think so.
I'll tell you anyway, with more than 84 million consumer visits every month, it connects us
with more engaged car buyers and delivers more deals than anyone else in the UK.
And now, with the launch of buying signals, we'll have brand new insights on every deal
showing how likely a customer is to buy the car they're interested in.
Plus, as someone who set out to use AI and data as much as possible in my business,
I've found their technology, data and tools genuinely invaluable.
But when I do get stuck, which is, let's face it, most of the time,
AutoTrader is always on hand and committed to supporting us to get the very best from our package.
To find out how they can help you, visit trade.autotrader.co.uk.
Welcome back to the car dealer podcast.
If you haven't listened before, we pick our favorite stories of the week and ask an automotive
industry guest to choose whose stories were best.
I'm Rebecca Chaplin and, incredibly, I'm back for a third week on the bounce because
John, this time, is on holiday.
So he's gone from a work trip to Scotland to ill to on holiday in Vienna.
Very exciting.
But James Bagger is back with me.
How are you doing today?
I'm fine, thank you.
It's been a rather stressful start to the day, hasn't it?
Has been a stressful start to the day.
We've had breaking news.
We've had tech issues.
But we're here.
We're recording.
It's Friday.
Let's get it done.
Lovely.
And you've had a really quite stressful week.
I've witnessed your dealership and you don't seem to be coping very well with customers at the
moment, I'd say.
It's not good, is it, for a customer service business, is it?
No, I think the general stress of life has probably just all compounded to make everything
a little bit harder.
The clever car collection is ticking along, I would say.
It's a little bit quieter than normal.
But we had a huge amount of cars turn up this week.
We had 20 cars arrive on Monday and Tuesday.
So we've now got 45 cars in stock.
Part of that is, yes, a lot, isn't it?
Part of that is to do with this Battle of the Buyers that we've got.
The Battle of the Buyers video, which is coming up tonight, actually, Friday night,
which is the one we did with Carwell, where loads of dealers have bought cars for me.
They turned up this week and I won't give it all away,
but some of them were absolute horrors.
The more you buy, the more you buy, the worth they get.
Yeah, they definitely do.
What else has been happening this week?
Oh, and we have sold a couple of cars, so it's not too bad,
but it does feel a little bit quiet at the moment.
Loads of inquiries, but nothing really converting.
So I'll be interested to hear what our guest has got to say about the market and all that.
So we should probably introduce him, shouldn't we?
Let me introduce, this week's guest is Chris Green from Reddit.
And for those of you who might not know what Reddit does,
and I'm sure many people don't actually realise how much you do,
can you give us a little backstory to Reddit, Chris?
Yeah, so we're a digital garage for car owners,
and thank you for having me, by the way, much appreciated.
We're a digital garage for car owners.
Ensure what we do is take a registration number and an email address for the consumer,
create a digital garage which is personalised to them, their vehicle, their ownership.
And the four mantras of what we do is depending on where you are in your car ownership life cycle.
We help you buy, we help you sell, we help you maintain, and we keep you legal.
So obviously we've got huge amounts, millions of amounts of first party data on a vehicle
and a consumer, just over four million records now.
So we're really valuable to car manufacturers when it comes to launching cars,
generating leads, advertising across the internet, the digital eco-media system,
which then funnels down to help dealers sell cars, of course.
But our main points of contact are car manufacturers, our data partners,
and our advertising agencies in London.
Chris, I've known you a long time. We've kind of crossed paths many times, haven't we, over the
years. You've got, you've really always had a real handle on the motor trade, you've got great
contacts, haven't you? I mean, what are you, what are you hearing at the moment?
You're out there talking to these dealers, manufacturers all the time.
What's the general feeling about the industry at the moment?
It's a question that we could probably debate and talk about in so many different ways,
but I think we are big on really listening to manufacturers. I attend a lot of events,
as you know, yours last week, which was fantastic, by the way, absolutely loved it.
Got some business from it, which is always nice.
But I think, you know, listening to what the problems are and trying to come up
with a part solution in some way is really good at what we do.
And a lot of what we're hearing are things like, if you, if you listen to Lisa Branking
from Ford, who I've listened to on stage many times, the biggest problems they've got is they
cannot sell an electric vehicle to somebody who doesn't have a driveway, even generational buyers
of Ford. So they might have had Fords right through the family, parents, grandparents,
sons, sisters, brothers, etc. But if they've not got a driveway, they cannot sell an electric car
to someone with a driveway, without a driveway. So I think when you look at that, and we've
probably got what 45% of homeowners in the UK without a drive, that's a massive problem
for car manufacturers and dealers. Throwing the Zev mandate, as we all know, big, contentious issue.
Government doesn't seem to be bringing any sort of decision making or policy change or even
conversations sooner than what we would like. So again, a huge problem for car manufacturers.
So there are a couple of the biggest things. I think one of the other things as well, which
people don't realise is cars are better than they've ever been in some regards, and people are hanging
on to their cars longer. I think they're looking at the market. They're looking at they're doing
less miles with work from home. The technology is good. The reliability is good. You know,
you can buy a warranty for a used car quite easy and quite freely if you want to hang on.
And the SMNT starts to say that people are hanging on to their cars longer,
and we are seeing that. So I think that can have an effect on the market as well,
purely and simply because they don't know about the transition to electric, whether it works for
them, whether it's range anxiety, whether it's cost barrier. So they just might just hang on to that
car a little bit longer. I've seen on your posts on LinkedIn that you've recently dived into the
world of electric, haven't you? Would it be fair to say you've had some challenges?
Yeah, so I need to be fairly sensible in some ways. Yeah, I like a rant and a rave, James. I
think you know that. I mean, that's what the podcast for. And I think that as well,
I'm in a bit of a position where, you know, I'm a founder and a CEO of an independent business.
I don't need to toe the line from a corporate PLC perspective, like some of the people that you
have on here. So I can be fairly honest with my views and opinions, but I got a Polestar 4.
I think if you look at sort of like my driveway, he's got two Chinese cars on it at this moment
in time. He's got a JQ7 hybrid. He's got a Polestar 4 full EV. And I've driven German cars for,
as you know, 35 years or whatever it is. Always got them on a PCP, whether it's BMW, Mercedes.
And the simple fact is to convert to full electric to stay with those brands was just too expensive.
In terms of the payment per month, it was just too expensive. And to transition to an EV with
salary sacrifice being available was, I wouldn't say it was an easy switch. You know, I took quite
a long time to think about it. 12 months have been in market really. So I think one of the other
challenges is, you know, I think this terminology of people buy cars within a few weeks now,
I think they take a lot longer to research. I think you need to nurture people down the funnel.
I think there's a lot of choice now. And there's a lot of decisions to be made and it takes a lot
longer. So when you've got this Polestar 4 charging from home, fantastic. Octopus charging,
charger overnight. But again, you're only looking at seven kilowatt charging takes about 15 hours
to make sure that it's viable from a cost perspective. It can cost you seven or eight
pounds. But the minute you get on a long journey, there's a real disconnect. There's a real disconnect
depending on where you are in the country on charging your electric vehicle. And I'm talking
about convenience. I'm talking about speed. I'm talking about not having to wait around while
people are queuing for electric chargers or they're full and cost, you know, 89 pence a kilowatt,
which can be dearer than maybe not at this moment in time, but historically can be dearer than
petrol or diesel. And I've just found the disconnect between reliability and I have mentioned grid
serve only because they tend to dominate the motorway service areas. The super hubs, which are now
starting to we're seeing a little bit more of I used one in Exeter last week. They're fantastic.
You know, 15, 20 super speed chargers. You can be in there for 20 minutes,
get a quick coffee and you're gone. But some of the older stuff and the historical stuff where
there's only a couple of chargers, they tend to be broken. The experience is not great. The maintenance
of them is not great. If they do work, they tend to be full because there's only a couple of them.
So it can be incredibly frustrating and can add on an hour and a half to your journey during the
day, which is not something I've really got the time to do. So I feel there's a huge disconnect
between the quality of charging across the country. And I think that's the biggest challenge.
Are you glad you changed from petrol, diesel to electric? All things considered?
I wish they got a hybrid. Yeah, I wish they got a hybrid. Yeah. And I'll say that with honestly,
the car is incredible. I have to say, the car is, I mean, we lack a bit of speed in automotive,
don't we? It's the fastest car I've ever driven or owned. It's ridiculously quick,
ridiculously, but that's not everything else we know. So to get the performance is incredible.
The tech can be a touch unreliable at times. You have to reboot a few times.
You can be on a 50 stretch and it'll tell you you're in a 30 and things like that.
So I don't think the tech is as good as some people make out. I think the design of the car,
the build quality of the car, how it looks is fantastic. I get stopped in car parks,
people going, oh my God, what's that? It's beautiful. And it really is. And I love the car.
I just don't love long journeys. It's challenging. It can be challenging.
You've got a bit of planning and preparation to do, but it doesn't always work out.
And I think where I get frustrated is, and I'm going to use the term and they'll hate me for it
because they come for me on LinkedIn, the EV evangelists talk nonsense. They'll tell you
they've never had a charging problem. They'll tell you they've never visited one that's never
broken down. They'll ridicule the likes of me and other people as they call it,
Dave in the pub and all the rest of it. But there is some serious challenges out there.
And I don't think the EV evangelists are fair. And I don't think that they're as honest as they
could be. Most of them are selling selling salary sacrifice, right? So they're going to be a little
bit biased, aren't they? Because effectively, that's how they're earning their money.
With all that in mind, do you think the 2030 ban will will happen?
No. No, I don't. I think it'll get extended. I genuinely do. Certainly if another government
comes in anyway, but no, I don't think it will. I can't see, you know, we're talking the last
couple of days with the war, which has developed over in Iran, you know, the business analysts,
if you read, you know, the likes of Citi AM and the FT and things like that, they're not talking
about us going into probably one of the worst recessions potentially. Is it scaremongering?
Is it clickbait? We all know they love a bit of clickbait. We don't know only we'll see what
develops. But if we do, that transition to EV is going to become even harder. And I think government,
in terms of policy and legislation, somebody is going to have to make a hard decision that
might not be popular with some people will be incredibly popular, I think with with dealer
groups in the industry. But the Zeb mandate needs looking at and I don't think 2030 will
happen. I think it'll get extended again. I do. Chris, am I right in thinking you started your
career in in cardioships? Yeah, yeah, I'm a car salesman, James, right? You know,
you've gone from media to being a car salesman. I've gone from car salesman into media.
We're like looking in a mirror. Yeah. When you when you look at the when you look at what how
Cardi's do things now and how you used to do it, I mean, what what are the biggest differences?
I mean, we were obviously back then, you know, you're talking, it feels like a form of life for
me. No, it's probably why when was I when I let I was 29 when I left BMW. And years before that,
I was Volkswagen, Audi, Smith Night Faye group, Ian Anthony, BMW, I've worked for Vauxhall,
I've worked for Ford, I've worked for Mitsubishi, but I was 29 30 then so it was just coming up to
the millennium when I'd left. So, you know, I've been out of the mix for probably 25 years or so.
But I mean, we were very paper and pen based back then. Let's be right, you know, we didn't have
the kind of digital technology. The websites didn't even exist back then. It was starting to become a
thing. I was a bit of an early, early adopter to the internet. And when my last job at BMW,
though, we would get dial up internet inquiries coming from the likes of London and Scotland.
And some of the older guys there would would be terrified of dealing with them. I embraced them.
I ended up selling cars, driving to the likes of Elgin in BMW M3s, dropping them off, delivering
them flying home. You know, I was like 28 29 dropping cars off in London, in Wales, in Ireland,
you know, because BMW used cars back then, especially the empowered stuff. They were very
unique, you know, particular colours, particular specs, particular milages. And they couldn't
find that kind of stock in some of these remote areas. So I would drive and deliver these cars
everywhere. And I was earning fortunes, absolute fortunes. If I was to quote the number now,
you know, I was earning probably something like back 25 years ago, 60 grand a year,
25 years ago. Yeah, it's a lot of money back then, you know, working for BMW. So
became a really adopter of the internet and internet leads and really smashed it. And then
that sort of like had a few light bulb moments going off for me in terms of how the industry
I think was developing. So I was a really early adopter of the internet.
What made you change? What made you change into into doing media?
So there's always like an involvement in there's always a time or a period of things evolving.
I think when I left BMW, you had a little bit of cash in the bank. I just had my little boy,
Josh, who's 26 now. And it was just wanting to spend a bit more time with him. So it turned into
trading a few cars from home, retailing a few cars from home, having a couple of used car pitches,
then having a couple of drive-thru car washes, wanting quick save car park in Stockport. And
all of a sudden I had a car pitch, had car washes, I was trading cars, and they had a nice little
business and then got offered the chance to sell them, sell it all to a customer who was retiring
from the post office, I think if I remember. So sold all that as a going concern kind of thing.
And then teamed up with Terry Hogan, who I used to work with, back at Smith Night Fate. And
effectively, he wanted to start selling cars on the internet. I was already a bit of an adopter
of that. And that's how we sort of like joined forces. We started trading and buying and retailing
cars on the internet. We did a bit of what I would call kazoo new car stuff back then,
you know, like 25 years ago, but it was a little bit difficult to get buy-in from dealer groups and
car manufacturers. So that was a little challenging. So but we were, we probably had a kazoo type
business 25, 30 years ago. And then obviously we bought the domain motoring.co.uk, which we still
own now. And I think we met shortly after that, didn't we? I think you were building car dealer,
we were sort of like building motoring.co.uk. We sort of like tried to help each other out as much
as we can. We've had some similar journeys, I feel. So we've always had this, this, this, this
relationship where we could bond in some ways. And then, you know, realize that actually trying
to launch a classified website to rival the likes of AutoTrader, as we've seen them come and go,
plenty over the years, was a massive challenge in itself. And then new car lead generation
dealing with advertising agencies and manufacturers, we felt was probably something that we could do,
we could exploit. You weren't over-reliant on dealers for money. I think trying to build a
business around dealer groups and advertising money now, and even over many years, I think everyone's
tried, everyone's pretty much failed. They're still the number one AutoTrader. Perhaps they're
suffering some challenges now, which we can see with dealers pulling off. Dealers are becoming
a little bit more self-sufficient, but they're still the number one, they're still the most profitable
by an absolute country mile. So moving away from trying to be a classified website was probably
the best decision we ever made. And we still do a little bit of that, you know, we still do a bit
of that. But our big play is automotive first-party data and helping manufacturers
and ad agencies with car launches across buying, selling and maintaining. Obviously,
the after-sales play is a big play for us as well. So you're very close to the lead side
of this industry, aren't you? And that really is the take on what the demand is like out there at
the moment. You've touched on it. You know, we've got war in Iran at the moment. I was reading this
morning, consumer confidence is tanking. You've got the oil price fluctuating, but incredibly
volatile at the moment. What's happening to leads out there at the moment? Because I speak to some
dealers and they say, oh, it's still okay. Others are saying it's absolutely dropped off a cliff.
I mean, what are you seeing from your part? Well, that's an interesting one, because we had to do
a little pivot in the last 12 months. So we were up until Haykar's unfortunate demise,
we were a relatively large lead generation partner for them. Before that, it was Motors.co.uk,
under the guidance of Phil for many years, Bill Jones, who I'm extremely close to today.
We moved from Motors during the pandemic to Haykar. They were obviously trying to grow
exponentially, build that brand, get the traction, the momentum with all respect to Haykar. And I'll
be hugely grateful to them for the work that we did with them for many years. But there's a classic
example of backed by VWFS, backed by Daimler at one point, backed by Allianz at one point. I mean,
the kind of backers that they had and the kind of money that went into that business, and they
couldn't even rival AutoTrader. And why was it? Was it the business model? Was it the strategy?
Maybe, but that was, again, was a very reliant lead gem model, which I think that
in times of huge numbers and in times of huge demand, I think, and we're not in volatility and
we're not in wars and we're not potentially seeing recessions, those lead generation models work really
well. I think when stock becomes a little bit in short supply, I think when consumer confidence
drops off, I think when numbers start to drop off, all of a sudden dealers don't need those leads,
so they won't pay for them. So if you've got a business model that's completely reliant on lead
generation for dealers going back to my point before, that dealer model becomes quite unsustainable,
or that business model comes quite unsustainable. So we are big into the lead gen, but as you know,
James, we've also got four or five other revenue streams, which serve us very well in times like
this. Certainly the data revenue stream with the lights of sky and things like that. But it has
dropped off. It has dropped off. And interestingly, we could never replace Haykar. There wasn't a
demand from any other publisher or any other classified website to actually take the kind
of volume of leads that we could deliver, so to speak. So we've had to pivot in some ways.
Do you think that what we're seeing at the moment is causing problems in the car market?
Do you think people are holding off purchasing? Yeah, I think, you know, we talked about earlier
on, the stats are there from the SMMT and we see it ourselves that I think consumers are
holding onto cars longer. I think that change cycle is now possibly longer. I probably held on
to my Mercedes longer than I probably would have done before I got the Polestar 4. Again,
took me a year to decide what to do. And it eventually went all in on EV because the deal
was incredible. What I will say is the Polestar 4 deal was incredible. And I think that there's
just so many different mixes of things, isn't there? I think there's confusion. There's a lack of
education with consumers. They're holding onto cars longer. It's expensive to live in the UK
currently, whether it's food, whether it's energy. If you look at the mortgage rate situation at this
moment in time where we were probably looking at inflation leveling off mortgage rates coming down
the Bank of England was talking about probably another two mortgage rate drops in the next six
months. Is that going to happen now? That's huge uncertainty. You're probably not going to go and
change your car. You're probably not going to buy another car. You're certainly not going to move
to electric. You're just going to hang on that bit longer and just wait for the stability that
you're looking for. It's about survival. The thing I realise about consumers over the years is
we all care about the environment. We all care about the environment. But when it comes between a
choice between the environment and survival, it's always survival, always. It just feels
incredibly frustrating at the moment. We've got this horrendous situation in the Middle East.
I just think when I look at it from the insulated view of the UK motor industry,
which obviously I have to do, we seem to have had so many different issues that keep on kicking
this industry and giving it and making the job really, really hard. It felt like at the start
of this year, we were just sort of getting back to normality. I remember doing a few podcasts
at the start of this year, people talking about, oh, it's going to be a normal year.
I mean, and now look what's happened. It's lucky that the automotive industry
is run by a lot of resilient people, isn't it? Because you'd just be tearing your hair out.
Yeah. I love that word. Many people ask me, obviously, we've been through some incredible
challenges as a business, as an SME over the years. Raising cash is tough. Making profit is
tough. Surviving things like COVID is tough. Everybody's got their own story. We were
virtually a bankrupt business after COVID. So we had to rebuild, hence the data strategy
that we came up with, which has been incredibly successful and incredibly profitable for us.
So we're in a really good place at this moment in time as a business. But I'll take us back
before COVID, James. If you remember, diesel was before COVID was really starting to get a really
hard time. We're talking eight, nine years ago now. Back in the days of the sort of like,
I remember we were all talking about 3.5 million new car registrations. Do you ever remember that?
Probably eight, nine years ago, it was like, we're on the traction for 3.5 million new car
registrations. We're nowhere near that and probably would never ever get back to anywhere near that
again. But I think the volatility and the ups and downs that our industry has had through various
different governments through COVID. I think the only one I could probably compare and it really
resonated with me last week and I really liked him as well. He was really honest. Ennis, was it
Richard Ennis? Ennis on stage. I thought he was fun. I thought the honesty that he was sat next
to Sam Luskin was on the panel. I thought the honesty that he came up with, but he came up
with a comparison that I've been comparing myself, which is automotive is quite similar to hospitality
at this moment in time with the volatility, the ups and downs, the lack of support, the punishment
that it's receiving from this government. I think it's very similar to the punishment we're receiving
from this government and the historical governments as well. So the resilience is my favourite word.
I think it's a skill. I don't think it's a skill that is honed and honed and honed over time.
People say to me, how the hell as a business owner have you got through the last years with
when you're not backed by big businesses and I'm really resilient. My team are really resilient.
Luckily, I've got a resilient investor as well, which always helps. But I think it runs through
automotive DNA. I think it really, really does. But I think that the next few years,
if we don't see some dramatic changes, I'm not sure resilience will get a lot of them through.
I saw Robert Forrest yesterday repost. Is it the former managing director of Voxall? I've forgotten
his name. His name escapes me and I reposted it. And yeah, that's it. I says we need to listen to
this guy. And he said, in five years time on the trending traction we've got, we will not have an
automotive industry in the UK. And I don't think I've ever been hit so hard reading one line
reposted by Robert Forrester. It might be a little bit of an extreme quote in some ways.
But I think it's the kind of quote that we have to sit up and take notice of. I really,
really do. I really do. And I think this government does. And they're the kind of people that this
government needs to start listening to. I mean, on the positive side, it's nearly Easter. So we'll
have four days off. So great to talk to you. Thank you very much for joining us.
With 49 cars in stock, you're not having an Easter, mate.
Funny enough, I was talking to Joe about our Easter opening hours this morning.
I'm not looking forward to that. Anyway, we should probably do some stories, Rebecca.
John, have you ever wondered why I, along with 14,000 other dealers,
partner with Australia? Well, actually, I didn't think so. I'll tell you anyway,
with more than 84 million consumer visits every month, it connects us with more engaged car
buyers and delivers more deals than anyone else in the UK. And now with the launch of buying
signals, we'll have brand new insights on every deal showing how likely a customer is to buy the
car they're interested in. Plus, as someone who set out to use AI and data as much as possible
in my business, I've found their technology, data and tools genuinely invaluable. But when I do get
stuck, which is let's face it most of the time, AutoTrader is always on hand and committed to
supporting us to get the very best from our package to find out how they can help you visit
trade.autotrader.co.uk. Now, back to the podcast.
Yes, let me quickly explain how it's going to work. James and I have both chosen our favorite
stories that have appeared on Cardiola this week, and we don't know what each other have chosen.
We're going to take in turns to reveal our stories and have a chat about each.
And at the end, Chris is going to have the final say on who is the winner and had the best stories.
If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to leave us a review wherever you're listening to
and subscribe or follow wherever that is. James, you won last week, so you can go first.
Can I just start with a thank you because I forgot to say this at the start of the podcast.
I'd just like to thank one of our listeners, Ken, who called me after listening to this podcast for
a long time and on Monday, he brought us down his car to sell all the way from Croydon. He's
used to be in the motor trade, long retired, has always listened to this podcast and he brought
us his car because he wanted to make sure it went to us. So thank you very much to him. Very nice.
So if you've got a card to sell us, please get in touch. Anyway, first story. Let me go with one
that I have published on my substack today. So there's an exclusive on my substack, which you can
there's lots of stuff to choose. There's lots of stuff to choose. But this is you can find out
my substack, which is cardilla.substack.com. And I've written about car giant. So you remember
two weeks ago, we broke the news that car giant, one of the most profitable used car supermarkets
in the UK, had started redundancy consultations with its staff. Now, this is a business that
is based in a very large site in West London on Old Oak Common Park Royal. And that was valued
that site at 98 million pounds in its most recent set of accounts, which is a huge sum of money.
And that is because it's right next to a planned HS2 interchange. Now, the value of this property
has gone up and down in the accounts over the years. But it seems that now the billionaire
owner Jeffrey Warren has decided that perhaps it could be time to cash out. And that business has
started redundancy consultations with all of its staff. Now, the update that I've had this week
is some of the staff members have been in touch with me anonymously to let me know what's happening
in those consultations. They've been told staff that April the 24th is D-Day for car giant.
They will be deciding at that point in time whether to close the business or carry on.
They're actively looking for a buyer for that business or deciding what they do in the future,
whether it's sell the land or sell the business or sell them both together. Apparently at this
point in time, none of those discussions that they've had with anybody has come to any fruition.
And this employee has told me that they were basically particularly upset about how this has
been dealt with. They said at Christmas people were made redundant. They were told nothing was
going to happen. No more redundancies. And then this side swiped them. There's a lot of effective
people in that business. They seem to be winding down the number of cars they've got. Last time we
spoke about this, they had 384 cars listed. As of this morning, they had 242 on the site. Now,
this is a business that used to run with 2,000 cars in stock plus. So it says a lot that they're
down to just over 200 cars. I did contact Car Giant for a comment. They said no final decisions
had been made. They reiterated their previous statements that Car Giant is currently engaged
in a formal collective consultation process with employees in relation to the proposals
that may affect the future structure of the business. No final decisions have been made
at this stage. But it's looking increasingly not like good news from what those people in
that business are being told and what they're assuming, what they're hearing on the rumor mill.
It doesn't look good. I mean, we know car supermarkets have had a tough time over the years.
We've talked at length about shortages that have come in. There's a number of car supermarkets that
reduced their size. We've seen closures. Peter Vardy's business. We saw Penn Dragon's business
close. So it is difficult. It is difficult out there at the moment. And perhaps Car Giant's
owners have just decided now's the time to cash in, but we'll find out on April 24. So yeah,
quite upsetting news. Chris, do you know the Car Giant business? Have you ever been there?
Yeah, obviously, I know the business. They do a lot of sort of, they did do a lot of tube
advertising. So I think they tend to be a bit more Southern based, don't they? Historically,
then they have Northern based. So never been to a site, don't know the founders,
don't know the owners. Obviously, always been big on sort of that outdoor advertising.
But I think you might be right. On the used car supermarkets, what's your take on that? I mean,
they are, they are striking. I'm sort of like with you with what you just said. I think the owners
of these businesses, I think they're looking at the future is what they're doing. I think they're
looking at what does it look like to navigate the next four or five years? And how much is it
going to cost us? What will the P&L look like? What does profitability look like? What does
sourcing stock look like? I think these guys are not stupid. They've built businesses,
incredible businesses over many, many years. And I think that you've got to take a view,
haven't you? And I think if you can exit a business currently for an amount of money,
which probably you don't want to devalue over the next four or five years time,
then it makes sense to do that. I think obviously, unfortunately, the sad thing is, is
the amount of redundancies that will be obviously taking place. We mentioned hospitality before,
you know, the amount of businesses that are closing in hospitality. We keep referring back
to this government, but we've got to look at what unemployment looks like in the next four or five
years. We've got AI being talked about. We've got dealerships potentially closing. We've got hospitality
on its knees. And if they can exit that business now, and it looks like the right thing to do,
and they'll have big financial advisors, they'll have big analysts on the business,
and they're probably telling them it's the right thing to do. And in some ways,
you can't blame them. Unfortunately, there's redundancies and people leaving livelihoods,
which is incredibly sad. Yeah, definitely. Right, Becca, move us on.
I am going to go for one that's like vaguely positive. I think that's the best I can do this
week is vaguely positive, which is the news about Lamborghini. Obviously, this is going to make a
big impact to the market. Lamborghini sales were up, but margin pressures meant that margins were
down. And this sort of relates to a story I used last week, which Bentley obviously
haven't had very good results, and they're making lots of people redundant. And I think this is
interesting because, again, we're seeing these brands that were sort of like the last year,
were the big success stories of, well, we can do it. And this year, it's not doing so well because
of this US pressure around tariffs. And it's also sort of sparked in my mind about the brands that
have thought, yes, we'll do that too. Similar things like JAG reinventing themselves and sort of
putting all their eggs in the US basket because they think they can make lots of money over there.
And now we're seeing that model isn't quite working. So I just think it's going to be interesting to
see what happens over the next year and whether that model does still work or whether it's going to
hit these businesses harder than and sort of seeing things spiral. I don't know what you think.
I mean, it's not all bad news for Lamborghini, is it? I mean, they still they're off. They made a lot
money still. Still 768 million euros of operating profit. I mean, that's not to be sniffed out,
is it? No, maybe they're in a sweet spot where their vehicles aren't horrendously expensive,
sort of. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, now I get it.
Attainable luxury. Well, yeah, it's not a choice level, is it? I mean, attainable
people like Chris. Haven't they been more profitable? I think I was reading yesterday.
It was all I only skipped through it. But haven't they been more profitable than Porsche
this year for the first time ever or something? I was reading. That's quite a quite a big statement,
right? Quite a big a big win for them, which wouldn't back up my attainable luxury, would it?
Because Porsche would be more attainable than a Lamborghini.
Interesting, though. Yeah, I've literally nothing to add on that,
so I'm going to move us on to another story. And I'd like to talk about breaking news
that came out this morning about Auto Trader. Now, Auto Trader has had, well,
we can only say, a very tough time over the last few months. There's been the deal builder fall
out. Then price rises and a lot of negative headlines. I mean, it felt like the business
was sort of coming out of that. And then this morning, they hit with something else. So the CMA
has launched an investigation and Auto Trader are part of this. It's an investigation into five
companies. Auto Trader, Justi, Dignity, FIFO, which is the online reviews provided used by
Auto Trader and Pasta Evangelist. What on earth is Pasta Evangelist? Have you got any idea?
Restaurant. Is it? It's a restaurant. Thank you.
Got to be London. Listen, I think there's one in Borough Market, so got to be London based.
Yeah. Becky, I'll let you Google that because I haven't done it because I'll focus on the
fresh past. I'm so confused. It's fresh pasta delivered. I thought I recognized that name, but
I mean, for someone who hates pasta, that's no surprise. I don't know anything about them.
But anyway, this investigation, which Auto Trader is part of, is looking at what they, and I quote,
fake or misleading online reviews. Now, there are a number of different parts to this investigation
that the CMA has launched. They say they've not reached any conclusions about whether these
companies have broken the law. The regulator has said it was investigating whether a number of one
star reviews were not published on Auto Trader's platform and were not counted towards star ratings.
Therefore, denying consumers a fully rounded picture of other customers' experiences.
Now, it's understood the use car marketplace will strongly deny these allegations and point out that
one star reviews are posted regularly on dealer profiles. Sarah Cardell, the chief executive
of the CMA said, fake reviews strike at the heart of consumer trust with many of us worrying about
misleading content when looking at reviews online. We've given businesses the time to get things right.
Now we're deploying our new powers to tackle some of the most harmful practices head on.
Now, it's very difficult for Auto Trader on this front to actually speak about it.
They have issued a statement, but the investigation is active. That statement says,
we note the CMA, we note that the CMA exercising its new direct consumer enforcement powers
has today announced investigation into a number of companies,
including Auto Trader and our third party moderator in relation to online consumer reviews.
We endeavor always to operate as a responsible and compliant business and we cooperate fully
with the CMA's investigation. So this investigation is what the CMA calls a formal consumer
protection enforcement case, very wordy, and they're looking at those five companies as a result.
Now, as I mentioned, lots of different facets to this, lots of different parts
that they're investigating and Auto Trader has wrapped up into part of this full CMA investigation.
It will be interesting to see what comes off the back of it. Speaking personally, we use the
Auto Trader platform and the FIFO reviews. We send out those reviews to all of our customers.
Luckily, we offer customers good service. We really try hard to look after them. We're very
proud of the FIFO reviews that we've got, but I know just like anybody else that if I got a
one-star review, it will be posted on the site. So I'm not quite sure what this investigation is
all about. I mean, I've seen plenty of one-star reviews, two-star, three-star reviews on many
Cardila profiles on Auto Trader. I mean, when we do our used car awards judging,
we take into account Auto Trader star reviews and Googles. So we look at them in detail.
Sorry, a few points on this. I think either way, it's not good for the industry and it's not good
for Auto Trader if this becomes wider knowledge because all it does is create distrust of Cardila's
and Auto Trader platform. But as you say, the Auto Trader even say to, I know people I talk to
where they've only got five-star reviews and Auto Trader say to them that people don't genuinely
trust if you've only got five-star reviews. They like to see a few four and threes where you fix
the problem because that makes them believe that this is you're genuinely doing a good service.
So it does seem strange to me that they would want to remove, unless it is like a,
I mean, I saw FIFO and Auto Trader do do work to filter out ones which are just junk.
The other thing I would say on this is I really like the FIFO platform because you can send a
direct request via the Auto Trader portal to that customer that you've sold the car for
to their name and their email address. What I don't like about it and what I don't like about
Google and some of these other platforms is that anybody can just go on, log on and post a review.
Now, like looking in one of the WhatsApp groups that I'm in this morning with some dealers,
yet again, one of those, because there's a lot of them in that group that are on YouTube,
one of them had received another one-star negative review from a customer they've never sold a car to.
Now, that can happen very easily if you've got an open platform that anybody can just jump on
and review. So I think I actually like the FIFO one for the most part because you can invite the
customer to send you a review. What I'd rather see is them actually remove the ability to just go
on there and review the business. I don't think that should be allowed. If you're not a customer,
if you can't prove that you've been a customer of that business, you shouldn't be allowed to review
it. Do you not think? Why should anybody just be allowed to, you know, one online warrior go on and
leave you a negative review? That's not fair. It doesn't give full customer experience though, does it?
No. I've not seen that news this morning actually. That's the first I've heard, but I mean,
you can see why JustEat could get a one-star review, right? Yeah, you could see why I think
the evangelist past the business could potentially get a one-star review if your food arrives damaged
or... Or the fact it turns out that it's past the... Yeah, and you hate past the business.
But I'm sort of wondering why AutoTrader would get a one-star review. And I think that the correlation
to that might be if someone's found the car on AutoTrader, which is bought from a dealer,
then I think sometimes a consumer might be confused. You know, if it was a bad car and they'd had a
bad experience from that dealer, as much as you'd be unhappy with the dealer, would some customers
be also unhappy with AutoTrader on the fact that they found the car on AutoTrader? It's
profiles and reviews. Because AutoTrader uses FIFO, which is another part of this investigation.
What they're focusing on is whether these one-star reviews were not published on the platform.
And I just cannot believe that's the case. I mean, how on earth could they be stopped?
That's the thing. I mean, if they're fake reviews, these platforms absolutely should remove them.
You know, maybe that's where this has been caught up. I don't know. I'm just guessing.
My understanding of the CMA as well is that you have to... Well, I don't know for certain,
but I thought that you had to report to the CMA that you think something's there's wrong doing
going on. And then they will have to have a certain number before they see, oh, this is
something genuinely going on. So my wonder is, are people leaving one-star reviews and they're not
appearing on the platform? And that's why they're complaining about... You've taken the words out
of my mouth, actually. I was just about to say this must have been a case and an investigation
that's potentially been built up over a long period of time by people complaining that their
reviews are not being posted. So this is not something that you just launch an investigation
in a week or so. This is probably something that's been building up over a long period of time.
And they've got to a point where they feel they've got enough to investigate.
This investigation looked at 100... More than 100 companies, apparently,
the CMAs and found 54 of them, they said, were potentially non-compliant.
But it's named these five in its announcement today. So yeah, it's an... It will be interesting to
see how this one plays out. And yeah, a bit of a headache for... A bit of a headache for
water traders that they probably don't need. Becca, I will let you move us on, though.
Oh, God, I haven't chosen the next story. What was on my list?
Oh, I'm going to go for your Vatscam video, which I thought was very interesting and people
should go and watch it. They have not watched it yet. But this is the news that James was
sent a letter and then he made a long video about it.
I'm surprised to read that sound really boring.
That's basically it. I think if you see the picture of you looking angrily at the letter as well,
basically, you've got some posts, you weren't very happy about it. So you interviewed someone
at Tradingstand or HMRC and they told you it's not real anyway.
The face that's in that thumbnail is what my dad used to do when he got my school report.
It's a really angry look as he read it. It was a bit scary getting that letter.
Yeah, I can't remember exactly what the letter said, but you quickly thought this doesn't add up.
I don't need to read it out to me. I was just looking for the letter.
It was basically telling you you were owed money, wasn't it?
No, it said I need to go online and make a VAT repayment allowance notification.
It looked and felt so real. This is the thing. It had the HMRC logo on it.
The envelope it turned up on had a PO box number stamped on it and stuff and I googled that
and found it was connected to HMRC. It had the normal telephone number, had the normal website
address, but the real telltale thing that I should have noticed and I only noticed it because I
uploaded the letter to ChatGPT was that the web address it was sending me to was HMRC.autos,
which is obviously not a Gov.uk domain. But what they did, I followed this in the video.
You can see the process. I talk about what the letter contains and then I follow that link
and see what they were trying to get. They wanted a lot of information, a lot of personal information,
my government gateway ID and VAT registration details. I spoke to an HMRC fraud investigator
for that video and that story that's on the website. They basically told me that this is
a known fraud which is called a VAT hijack, which is something I'd never heard of. What they do
is they take control of your VAT number and your VAT account and they submit fraudulent returns
and they change the bank details and they pocket the money that's coming back from HMRC.
The problem with it as a business owner is it's not as simple as just ringing HMRC up and saying
someone's nicked my VAT number. You have to prove it and you can imagine it. That's a very, very
difficult thing to do. Just by following the details on that letter, which looked very real,
it caught me out. I'm not a VAT expert and that's why I have an accountant. If it wasn't for ChatGPT,
I would definitely have been caught out because it was a Friday night. I just got home from work
and I was side-swiped by it, really. It felt and looked very real and I just think this one
was specifically targeting car dealers. It said on the letter that they were investigating the
auto industry and since I posted that story in the video, I've had a lot of dealers being touched
saying they've had the same letter. You've got to be so careful when you're logging on to these
websites. It was a bit of a shock but yes, you can go and watch my video about a letter on the
channel. It's on my radar. I'm going to be scary, Chris. Honestly, James, I feel you. We're no dummies
by any means, right? We've been around the block a little bit and navigating scams and online fraud
now is massive. We've been doing a lot of stuff with DocuSign the last couple of years on various
different contracts and stuff. I don't know if there's a correlation to it but I've had
huge amounts of fraudulent DocuSign stuff coming through and it looked so real but when you're
in the middle of actual contracts of utilising DocuSign, you think it's real and you open it
up and it's asking for all sorts of personal and banking information from you and you're a bit like,
hang on a minute, I've even had to ring my FD and say, Steven, is this part of it? And he's gone,
no, no, not at all. Navigating it is hard. I think for elderly people and people who are a little
bit naive, they are that good now. They are that good that they just have it as a numbers game,
don't they? Let's send a thousand out and hope that we get a handful, which you can see the
mentality. They've printed a proper envelope. I mean, since I published the video, everybody said
to me in the comments and sent me messages saying an HMRC letter always turns up in a brown envelope,
you should know that. Well, I didn't know that because I haven't had one before but it was in a
white envelope. But it's little things like that that they've clearly gone to a great extent,
print these envelopes and print these letters. Had my personal details, it turned up at my home
address with my VAT number on it. So where have they got all of this information? Yeah,
that's what I wondered. Did you manage to find out any? Well, I mean, I did operate the clever
car collection from my home for seven or eight months. So I suppose it's not out of this world.
Oh, I suppose you're VAT numbers. And the VAT numbers on the website, those things are easy to find.
Well, you know, it's the technology behind it that they're using as well now. It's so advanced.
When you look at say, a company's house as an example, they can use AI and bot trawlers now
to just scrape that information. You know, scraping information like you see businesses
scraping car ads to a degree. To scrape that kind of information now with AI say from
company's house and all is easy. Piece of cake for them. What's sitting behind it
is also incredibly advanced. It's big business, big business. Yeah, no, it definitely is.
Right, I'm going to wedge another story in. And I would like to just go back to the big
motor in world trial. Very careful. I will deal with this one. Now, this is the big motor in
world case where Peter Waddell, the founder, majority shareholder of that business has brought
action against the firm for unfair dismissal. Its case is currently ongoing in the High Court.
We've talked about it gingerly on this podcast, I would say over the last few last few weeks.
But I just want to talk about this one update that came out this week. And this is news that
big motor in world executive involved in investigating the misconduct claims against
Peter Waddell was told that his office had been bugged and his home placed under surveillance.
So the High Court heard this during this case. So Tom Clark, he works at the use car supermarket
and he sat on the investigation committee which upheld the complaints against Peter Waddell
prior to his departure. And it was revealed in court that after that investigation began,
Clark received threatening messages from Peter Waddell who suggested that his phone was being tapped.
And despite a sweep later revealing that his office and phone, what this these claims weren't
true, this director Tom Clark says the incident had left him in absolute shock. This came up in
cross examination from Peter Waddell's barrister Alan Gorgie KC on March the 19th. And he said,
I've been sent messages from Waddell telling me that he's watching me from my bedroom window.
My telephone has been tapped and the office has been bugged. I was in absolute shock said Tom Clark
and I still am frankly at such disgraceful behavior and such awful messages to receive
that has affected me frankly for the last two years. Now clearly this has been denied.
It's come up in the in the in the court and they're they're discussing it but just shows you the
sort of extent that this the detail that this this case is going into and just some of the stuff
that has that has been dragged up now it is very very hard to comment on this case so I'm not going
to because the case hearing is hearing is continuing. You can read those stories on our website
including that one and a number of others from from both sides we've covered both sides of this case
very very carefully. I think next week the closing arguments will happen in this case
before the judge in the High Court makes a decision on what happens next. So it will be
interesting to see what comes out in those closing arguments and what happens as a result
result of this case. I don't it's hard to comment Chris but have you been following you mean following
the case at all? I do know something James um it's the kind of thing that has fascinated me to a
degree um and yes I have followed it and I've read everyone excuse me and um this is a difficult one
obviously I'm not going to comment on the case but I will comment on him I think uh I think
he was on the not last year the year before one of the last one the year before on the
on stage at Cardiola event wasn't he? Cardiola live 2020 24? Yeah two couple of go up two yeah
um not for me really not not for me as a as a person um got a story you know like lots of
people have um sad what happened to him when he was when he was younger but you know I think there's
lots of stories like that but a little bit crass a little bit crass for me and a little bit um
not my property I think what I will say as well is is after Covid I think when he done his deal
um and also when there was lots of people losing jobs and being made redundant and all the rest of
it and he's he's posting his 10 million yacht all over LinkedIn and showing off and all the rest of
it I thought that was really really bad taste I'm all for people being successful and exiting the
business and doing well but I think you know gloating and showing off which is really what it
looked like all over LinkedIn posting you but I actually unfollowed him after that I thought it
was really really poor taste so I don't know him that well um I don't know him at all but I think
there's I think he's got probably a lot to learn and this will teach him a lot of lessons I think
it's um as a case it has really brought the motor industry into into very very sharp focus
and I think there's everything that's come out has been it's it just shows you that I reckon
there's a lot of people watching this case who think well if all my WhatsApps ever came out if
all my emails ever came out I'll be in real trouble and I think it's kind of like because
what they've done you know both sides have to disclose everything and it just absolutely everything
you think was private anything you ever think is private you've sent to someone if it ever gets to
the high call they have access to everything um and you end up you end up with headlines like this
so there'll probably be a lot of people watching this thinking thank god that's not me
what's fascinating for me as well quote me from wrong James isn't he still
the majority shareholder in that business he is still the majority shareholder yes yeah
so to be the majority shareholder and and be ousted and still have that huge amount of equity
um I think that does show the power of private equity as well and how can you imagine
if you were if it was your business I just I looked at it and just think that if this was
my business and I was still the majority shareholder and I had no say whatsoever in what
other people were doing with what is effectively my my business by majority I would I don't think
I could continue like that I would find it very hard and I would probably end up fighting
fighting hard to to to get to get control again and I think this is obviously what you know
this is obviously what's happened it's uh many many other things have happened but here but
I think at the absolute very basis of this is is somebody who majority owns a business
now longer has now no oversight of it whatsoever or control and that must be very very painful
yeah no extremely I I totally agree with that and in some regards I feel
for him but he has made an awful lot of money out of out of it you know you bring private equity in
yes you take you know he's probably taken tens of millions of pounds off the table he's a very
wealthy man he can afford to fight it but by the same rule it does show you that if you do the wrong
deal if you do the wrong deal and you don't take the right advice it can be painful for you in the
long run I think that's what he's potentially suffering now you know in hindsight it was probably
the wrong deal for him because of the kind of person that they are saying he is if that makes
sense um maybe he should have exited fully or or or majority and just left a little bit of skin in
the game for a future exit but it does show you if you do the wrong deal with private equity it
can bring a lot of trouble even though it can make you incredibly wealthy yeah I must say a lot of
this is our personal personal opinion and the case is ongoing in the in the high court and if you
want to read any of those stories you can do so on our website very difficult to dance around that
one but hopefully we have done it legally and soundly if not I'm sure I'll get another solicitors
letter uh right let's uh why you've had one already I mean would it shock you to say that both sides
have threatened me with court I mean it's like it's uh you know it's one of those I think it's
one of those cases that's angered everybody anyway let's bring this podcast to a close Rebecca
I should add that we do get these letters not because we've written anything wrong but because
that is the like the instant thing you get when with big businesses sometimes they like to send
this James you report it as you see it right guys you report it as you see uh legally and soundly
we've reported Chris yeah of course of course it doesn't mean that people like it when it's written
yeah anyway so that's the end of our stories so Chris who do you think had the best stories this
week and who is the winner it's gotta be it's gotta be the Peter Waddle case isn't it for me I think
yeah oh my word that I just think I just think it's it's fact you know it's fascinating um
it's it's out there it's it's big everyone's looking I think nice pun to see how it ends
how does it end I think that's the thing isn't it it's it's like a it's a bit like Dallas in the
80s isn't it or or dynasty or whatever you know there's there's I think everyone's just looking
to see how how it ends who wins or are there any winners are there any winners or losers in this I
don't know but I think I think it's just we're all looking to see where it where it ends really what
the result is I think Cardiola will be there to bring you the news Chris I'm sure you will thank
thank you for the win that brings it to all Rebecca are you in uh in john's in john's
substitute oh okay um I think we need to keep I'm sorry Rebecca by the way sorry sorry about that
it's fine it's fine um we just need to keep a record of how many times Peter Waddle has been
the story that's won the yeah I should probably do it can I just do it can just before you bring
us to a close and I just do a quick plug um because yesterday I posted will probably people who
the best bits from Cardiola live 2026 there was some fantastic sessions at that at that podcast
and I've at that podcast at that event so I've created a second podcast there's some of those
highlights including the headline speakers uh Nicola Dobson from Peugeot Sohib from Infinity
and Ginny from Electrify and I've included some of their best bits so you can go and listen to that
both of them both of them now on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and I think our YouTube channel too
yes what I was going to say is um particularly if you are listening to this just on Apple or
Spotify it's worth going over and watching that one on YouTube because um it's just very interesting
to watch as good footage live from the show yeah definitely I thought was one of the best
not just saying that we I thought as a panel as a as a as talking points as everything I thought
it was thought was great it got got lots lots out of it me and my team this year yeah it was great
thank you so well well done because you know something these these things are you have to
pick and choose now I think you know with with the cost of events and you know with people working
from home and things I think you sort of have to pick and choose to your events and I've been to
some bad ones and I would never go again and I've been to some good ones but this this is I think
you've evolved correctly I think it's good really really good yeah and we've got world first
announcement coming soon oh yes well can you any where are you going to bring us that news
in the next few weeks hopefully so I might just give you an exclusive so obviously we did our
sky partnership and our bliss mobile technology partnership and our dbs direct mail partnership
so we've got a world first outdoor media partnership being announced
excellent yeah taking over taking over all of car giant slots on the tube
I'm just going to say a quick thank you to James and Chris for both being here today if you want
to find out more about any of our stories we've mentioned do click on the links in the show notes
or head over to car dealer magazine.co.uk and scroll to the podcast section we will be back
again next Friday so don't forget to hit subscribe and until Thursday back next Thursday because it's
uh yes well done oh yeah good Friday until then goodbye
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