They’re talking about the Simeon Museum, a museum focused on cars and car history. The hosts say it’s impressive not just because of the cars you can see, but also because of the extra materials upstairs.
They mention Art Center School as the place they went to study design. The point is that it helped them move toward car design instead of staying in a more general college path.
Term
Turin Auto Show
The Turin Auto Show is a car show where companies display design ideas. The speaker says Mitchell saw inspiration there and brought it back for the Corvette design.
The belt line is a line on the side of the car that helps define its shape. It’s part of the styling that can also affect how the car’s body guides airflow.
Term
sketches
Sketches are early drawings designers use to try out ideas. They’re describing how the design was refined step-by-step using drawings.
The Chevrolet Corvette is a sports car made by Chevrolet. It’s known for being a performance car with a distinctive look. People talk about certain early 1960s Corvettes because that’s when the design and features changed in important ways.
A racing license is the official approval you need to race in sanctioned events. The speaker is saying he couldn’t race yet because he wasn’t old enough.
A “split window” is a rear window design where the glass is split into two parts. The speaker is using it as an example of how the Corvette’s look is still easy to recognize.
A concept car is like a design study or prototype that shows what a future car could look like. Here, the speaker says they worked on a concept that influenced the final Corvette design.
Bill Mitchell was a top design leader in the American auto world. In this segment, they’re crediting him with steering some of the best-looking cars of the era.
Harley Earl was an influential designer/manager in the American auto industry. The hosts are saying he helped change how car styling was handled at big companies.
They’re making a historical point: early cars were built with engineering as the main focus, and later the industry put more emphasis on design and styling. The speaker thinks that shift helped create more iconic-looking American cars.
The Toronado is a classic American car model from Oldsmobile. Here it’s brought up as an example of the kind of stylish cars that came from that design leadership.
Concept
after hours
They mean he wouldn’t talk to designers during regular work time. He’d wait until after the normal workday ended to meet with them.
Concept
go racing
They’re saying the person was able to start driving and then pursue racing. It’s about getting into motorsports.
An engine conversion is when someone changes a car’s engine to a different one. Here, it sounds like people were swapping in American V8 engines to make the cars faster or easier to build.
“California Specialists” were basically DIY-style race cars built in California. They often used American V8 engines and were made to race against expensive European cars.
An “American V8” is an engine with eight cylinders arranged in a V shape, made by (or associated with) American brands. The speaker is saying these home-built race cars used that kind of engine.
“Old Geller” is the name of a particular race car they built. It’s mentioned as a standout example of a budget-built car that could still beat expensive European cars.
That’s the engine size, measured by displacement. Bigger displacement usually means the engine can make more power, which is why they talk about enlarging it.
“Hot rod the engines” means modifying an engine to make more power than stock—often through changes to internal components, fueling, ignition, and other performance-focused settings. In the segment, it’s used to describe how a California team helped adapt the engine for racing use in the AC chassis.
“Cobra” here refers to the Shelby Cobra, the iconic American road-racing car built around an AC chassis and a Ford V8. The episode credits the Cobra’s success to the combination of a lightweight AC platform and a powerful Ford engine.
The “United States Road Racing Championship” is a racing series the SCCA started around 1963, marking a more organized, professional road-racing era in the U.S. The segment uses it to frame when the Cobra’s early success happened.
“Power of weight ratio” is a performance metric comparing how much power the car makes to how much it weighs. A higher ratio generally improves acceleration and overall responsiveness, which the speaker credits for the Cobra’s early dominance.
Term
427
“427” is the name people use for a big Ford V8 engine. It’s known for being heavy and making a lot of heat, so it changes how the whole car behaves compared with a smaller engine.
Term
289
“289” is the name people use for a smaller Ford V8 engine than the “427.” They’re basically debating whether the smaller engine is the better choice for the kind of car they’re talking about.
The prototype class is for race cars that are built specifically for racing, not for being sold to the public. The speaker is saying Ford entered the wrong kind of car for the rules they were trying to follow.
The GT class is a race category for cars that are based on production models you could buy. It’s different from prototype racing, which is more like purpose-built race cars.
Homologation means you have to build enough “real” cars that are similar to the race car. Racing organizers use that to keep the competition tied to production cars.
A mid-engine car puts the engine closer to the middle of the car instead of at the front. That usually helps the car handle better because the weight is more balanced.
“GT” is a racing category for sports cars that are related to road-going models. They’re saying Ford wouldn’t be able to make enough cars quickly enough to meet the rules for that class.
Horsepower is a way of describing how strong the engine is. The speaker is saying they didn’t have enough engine power to win in that higher-level racing class.
They’re talking about how the shape of a car affects how air flows around it. Better air flow can make the car faster and more stable, especially at high speed.
They’re explaining that the war disrupted plans for these car design ideas. Because of World War Two, the technology didn’t make it into regular car production.
They’re saying the car started burning during the race. That usually means something went wrong with fuel, wiring, or a hot component.
Car
Ferrari GTO
A Ferrari GTO is a very rare, famous Ferrari that has a big racing history. The hosts are using it as a comparison point to explain why some cars from that era are worth so much.
“As-race condition” means the car is preserved like it’s been used in racing, including normal battle scars. Instead of making it look brand-new, you keep the evidence of its real history.
“Cobra Daytona” refers to the Shelby Cobra Daytona, a race-focused version of the Cobra associated with the Daytona racing legacy. The segment discusses how Simeon acquired it and kept it in an authentic, worn “as-race” state rather than fully restoring it.
This refers to restoring or repairing the car’s mechanical systems so it can operate reliably, even if the bodywork and cosmetics remain rough. The segment contrasts mechanical readiness with the car’s degraded surface condition.
“Historical racing significance” means the car’s importance based on its racing history—such as wins, participation, and its role in motorsport lore. The host asks whether the specific car also has that kind of racing pedigree.
FIA races are official, internationally sanctioned races run under the FIA’s rules. If a car had only one FIA race, it means it didn’t show up in many top-level international events.
A “GT championship” is a racing series for sports cars that are based on real production models. The year 1965 matters because the rules and competition were different back then.
Le Mans is a legendary long-distance race where cars run for about 24 hours. It’s a big deal in racing because the cars have to last and keep performing for a full day.
They’re pointing out where the car was made—specifically that this one was built entirely in the U.S. For collectors, that kind of origin detail can make the car more historically interesting.
They’re saying the car bodies were made in Italy. That’s important because it can lead to small differences between cars, even if they look similar at a glance.
“Hand built” means the cars were made mostly by people, not by fully automated production lines. That’s why even cars with the same colors can still look slightly different.
They’re talking about replica versions of classic cars. The idea is that replicas can be so well made now that they may be a better buy than hunting for a true original.
The Shelby Cobra is a famous classic sports car. This segment is basically saying that today’s replica versions can sometimes be better built than the original cars.
The Datsun 510 is a classic Japanese compact car that became popular with car fans. The speaker is saying it went from being overlooked to becoming a favorite.
Independent suspension lets each wheel react to the road on its own. That helps the tires stay in contact with the ground more consistently, which improves handling.
Disc brakes are the type where pads squeeze a metal rotor to slow the car down. They tend to work better and stay more consistent when you brake hard more than once.
The BMW 2002 is an older BMW compact that racers used a lot. In this discussion, it’s brought up as a rival car that competed in the same kind of racing category.
Frontal area is how big the car looks from the front. A smaller front usually means the car pushes through the air a bit easier, which can help it go faster.
They’re talking about the early trend where people bought affordable Japanese cars and then upgraded them to make them faster. Because the cars were cheap to start with, it helped create a whole tuning scene.
The “Z” refers to a Nissan sports car model line. It’s known for being built to drive in a sporty way. The discussion mentions a person involved in directing the project, which is why it comes up in car history talk.
The Datsun 240Z is an older sports car from the Z model family. It’s known for its attractive design and fun driving character. People talk about it a lot because the 240Z is considered a great-looking classic.
They’re saying the event will focus on Japanese cars that year. It’s basically the theme of what kinds of cars will be highlighted.
Term
roll ball trailers
“Roll ball trailers” is how they describe their car-hauling trailer design. It’s built specifically to move cars around safely and smoothly, rather than being a basic trailer.
“Aeroballs” is the name they use for their special trailer line. It’s meant to look high-end and be shaped to tow more smoothly while carrying your car.
The Eagle Talon is a compact car made to feel sporty. It’s often talked about because it has a strong performance reputation and a distinctive look. In your clip, the car is being praised based on how it looks in the listing.
AeroVault is the name of the trailer brand. They’re telling you to check out the AeroVault website to see the specific trailer design they’re talking about.
They’re talking about a Corvette Stingray with a special rear window shape. Instead of one continuous window, it’s split into two sections, which makes it look unique and collectible.
The “studio concept” describes a special, designer-driven version of a production car—typically built to show a particular vision rather than to be mass-produced. In this context, it’s compared to how GM studios would create a unique vehicle for executives or special use.
Consignment means the car owner brings the car to a dealer/showroom, but the dealer doesn’t fully “buy” it up front. The dealer helps sell it, and the owner gets the money once it sells.
Grand marshal is an honorary role given to a prominent person at an event, often to lead or represent the event’s spirit. In car events, it’s typically awarded to someone with notable influence in motorsport or automotive design.
Monterey Historics is a big classic-car event near Monterey Car Week. People show up to celebrate and display historic cars, and it often includes special guest roles.
The “space race” was a big competition to build better space technology. They’re comparing that kind of forward-thinking to how some car designers were aiming for futuristic ideas.
They mean the airplane/space industry. The idea is that car designers borrowed the futuristic look and engineering mindset that you’d normally see in aircraft.
“Chrome” is the shiny, reflective metal finish you see on some car trim. They’re saying that kind of flashy, futuristic look was part of the inspiration.
This is a Ford F-350 truck from 1997. “4x4” means it has four-wheel drive, and the long bed gives you more space for hauling. “XLT” is just the nicer equipment/trim level.
Term
460
“460” is the engine size. Bigger engines like this are usually better for pulling trailers and heavy loads.
This is a 1993 Cadillac Allante, which is a luxury convertible. The speaker notes it’s the last year it was made, which can make it more desirable to collectors.
“North Star” is the name Cadillac used for a particular engine design. The host is saying that having the North Star engine is what makes this Allante especially worth owning.
Concept
pinning Farina bodied
This is talking about how some classic cars got their bodywork from an outside designer/manufacturer. The “pinning” part is about how that body was attached or fitted during assembly.
They’re describing how, back then, parts or even whole cars were shipped across the ocean/around Europe to finish the build. It’s a reminder that production wasn’t always done in one place.
This is an automatic transmission with four gears. It’s older-style compared to today’s cars, which usually have more gears for better efficiency and quieter cruising.
The Morgan Plus 4 is a classic British sports roadster. The “1958 Plus 4 Roadster” is a specific older model year that collectors like. It’s mentioned because the car’s look and condition—like the orange over white color—make it memorable.
A Morgan Roadster is a classic open-top sports car. In your clip, it’s referring to the 1958 Morgan Plus 4 Roadster. People mention it because it’s a classic car with a distinctive look and an open-top driving experience.
“Numbers matching” means the car still has the original engine/major parts that match the vehicle’s identity records. Collectors like it because it’s more original and harder to fake.
They’re talking about a 1967 Chevrolet Malibu that’s been modified to look like a classic Chevelle SS from the 396 era. A “tribute” usually means it’s a homage, not necessarily an exact original-spec car.
This phrase is describing a Chevrolet Chevelle SS that’s associated with a 396 V8 engine. “SS” usually means a sport/performance trim, and “396” is the engine size people use to identify that version.
A “tribute” car is usually a regular car that’s been changed to look like a more famous version. It’s often not the exact same parts or setup as the original.
“402 cubic inches” is how big the engine is—bigger usually means more power potential. “Four barrel” means the engine has a carburetor with four openings to feed air/fuel for stronger acceleration.
Term
396
The “396” is a commonly referenced engine size name used in Chevrolet muscle-era marketing. In this discussion, they’re saying the car was actually a 402, highlighting how engine naming and labeling could be confusing to buyers and enthusiasts.
“Bait and switch” means promising one thing and then delivering a different thing. They’re debating whether the engine story here was truly misleading or just how the cars were presented.
Option codes are like a checklist written in code. They tell you what factory features the car was ordered with, such as certain trim pieces, paint, or transmission.
BRE is a racing identity tied to a specific paint-and-graphics look on race cars. They designed it so it would photograph well and stand out in magazines.
The Ford Thunderbird is a classic Ford model that started out more sporty-looking, but over time it shifted toward being a bigger, more comfortable “luxury cruiser.” The discussion here is about how that change happened across the mid-1950s to late-1950s era.
This describes a large V8 engine (the “390 cubic inch” part) and a carburetor that has four openings (“four barrel”). It’s the kind of setup that was meant to feel powerful and effortless for cruising.
“Cruzomatic” is the name for an automatic transmission with three forward gears. It’s designed for easy, smooth driving—more like cruising than squeezing out every bit of efficiency.
A “luxury cruiser” is a vehicle tuned and marketed primarily for comfort and relaxed long-distance driving rather than sharp handling or outright sport performance. The speaker contrasts this with the idea of a “sports car,” arguing that later Thunderbirds leaned more toward comfort.
Car
nineteen sixty nine international twelve hundred D long bed pickup medium blue over blue
They’re talking about a 1969 International pickup truck. The point is that it’s a long-bed, blue-colored truck with paperwork/logbook history that helps confirm what it’s been through.
A “logbook” is a maintenance and ownership record where the owner writes down what was done and when—like oil changes and other service events. In collector circles, a detailed logbook helps verify mileage and maintenance history, which can strongly affect trust and value.
Term
oil windshield wipers
“Oil windshield wipers” is almost certainly a transcription error for “oil windshield wipers” meaning the owner recorded windshield wiper-related maintenance or fluid changes alongside oil changes. The key enthusiast takeaway is that the logbook includes small, routine upkeep items, not just major repairs.
This describes a “maintenance log” habit: recording mileage and service actions at regular intervals (like after refueling). For classic-car buyers, consistent notes can help reconstruct how the car was used and maintained over time.
That “392 cubic inch” number tells you the engine’s size. Bigger displacement usually means a bigger engine that can make more power, but it doesn’t guarantee it by itself.
This means the car has a manual transmission with four forward gears. You shift it yourself with the clutch, and there are fewer gear choices than many newer cars.
They’re talking about a paperwork strategy: putting the car under a company (an LLC) and registering it in Montana. The concern is that other states may challenge it if you don’t really live there, because taxes and rules may not be handled correctly.
This is about setting up a business in Delaware. People sometimes do it because the rules are well-established and can be easier/cheaper for certain paperwork and tax situations.
Concept
incorporate you in Montana
This is about setting up your business paperwork in one state even if you operate in another. People do it for legal and administrative reasons, but the rules can get complicated.
A dealer license is the legal permission you need to sell cars in a state. Different states require different rules—some want a real office or lot, plus clear contact info for customers.
Concept
UPS postal box
A UPS postal box is just a mail drop, not a real storefront. The point here is that someone was trying to use it to meet dealer-license rules without actually having a dealership location.
Some states require car dealers to have a real physical place—like an office or lot—to get a license. That can be awkward when cars are being sold online or through consignment.
Concept
customer parking sign requirements
Some states require specific signage for dealerships, including a sign designating customer parking. These rules are part of how regulators verify the business operates as a legitimate dealership rather than a mail-drop or remote seller.
They’re saying the dealer license rules required a real phone line that works, not just a mobile phone. It’s another example of strict requirements that were designed for traditional storefront businesses.
A dealer tag is a special plate that lets a car dealer drive a car that’s still in their inventory. Different states have different rules about who can drive and what you’re allowed to do.
“Buy here, pay here” means the dealer sells the car and also lets you pay over time through them, not a bank. It can involve more paperwork the dealer has to get right.
The Chevrolet Nova is a car model made by Chevrolet for a long time. A “77 Nova” means the 1977 model year. People bring it up because that specific year can be interesting to collectors and buyers.
Notarized means a notary public watched the signature and confirmed the person signing is who they say they are. Some states require this for certain car paperwork and others don’t.
Some states give you a separate form to fill out when you sell a car, instead of writing everything on the title. It lists who sold it and who bought it.
Concept
state-by-state regulation (states rights vs national regulations)
They’re talking about how rules for car paperwork can be different from state to state. Some people want one set of national rules, while others want each state to handle it their own way.
The DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) is the government office that processes vehicle paperwork like registration, titles, and driver-related services. In the transcript, the DMV’s guidance varies by staff member, affecting whether a buyer can obtain the documentation they expect.
LIVE
This is the Classic Automall Show.
Broadcast from the studios inside the Classic Automall in Morgantown, Pennsylvania.
Just one hour west of Philadelphia at Pennsylvania Turnpike Exit 298.
Featuring nearly 1,000 classic vintage and barred fine vehicles for sale under one climate controlled roof.
Now, here's your host, Classic Automall President and the man with all the toys, Stuart Howden.
And welcome show number 241 on another dreary day. What is it with Wednesdays and overcast cloudy days?
Really. About had it with the clouds.
Yeah, but out of the cold in the clouds. There's a Dodge D500 convertible leaving.
You'd allow her. We talked about that one a couple weeks ago.
Yeah, we did. It's a great car. And you sold it. Congratulations.
We sold it, thank you. Well, I didn't sell it. One of the guys did.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye. It's another one sold what we need. We need consignment.
So bring us your tire, your week, your great rolling, whatever, rolling, brakes work, all that good stuff.
How many cars in inventory, JR?
Oh, I heard we got a batch. I'm going to say 829.
Oh, goodness.
Interesting. I'm going a little lower. 815.
How about in the sevens, 796.
Wow.
That's the lowest we've been in a while.
So instead of commiserating about how we need more inventory, which we need more inventory.
Or better weather.
Yeah, or better weather. Let's welcome our guest joining us this morning, Mr. Peter Brock. Good morning, Peter.
Good morning. How are you doing?
We're doing fantastic. I'm so glad to have you on.
You know, you and I actually met at the Simeon Museum in 2022.
I won the bid on the jacket and you all, you and Roy Schauberg and Chuck Cantwell signed it.
Oh, right.
And we took a picture in front of the Cobra Daytona.
And yeah, that was a fun night. I love the Simeon Museum.
That's an incredible collection of stuff. And even more important is the library upstairs.
That was what really impressed me.
Yeah. It's really, people don't realize that part of it.
And they go in there and if you're not a car person, you might not totally grasp what the Simeon is.
It looks a little rudimentary and low key, I guess, for a museum, but it's anything but that.
Oh, it's a fantastic collection of memorabilia and automobile as well.
Absolutely. So your resume is quite impressive in the car world yourself.
Automotive designer, author, engineer, competitor, manufacturer, motorsports visionary and storyteller.
Wow. That's a big business card you must have.
Yeah. Well, it's been an interesting life, had a lot of fun on everything that interests me.
Sure. Sure.
And you were going the traditional route in school back when you started at Stanford,
but you quickly realized that you wanted to do design more than anything and ended up at the Art Center School.
I guess that's in Pasadena, right?
Well, it is now. At that time, it was down in Los Angeles proper.
But it's interesting because I didn't know anything about automobile design at that time.
I just heard about the school that taught automobile design and I had no idea of how it was done.
I had no art background at all.
But I know I didn't want to stay in college.
It just wasn't delivering the information that I needed to do anything that was really adventurous to me.
I definitely wanted down to see what was going on there and fell in love with the school and the way they taught and the instructors and it was just a fantastic school.
And is it true you didn't even have a portfolio when you went there and you went out in the parking lot and drew up some things?
I didn't know what the word portfolio was. They told me I'd have to bring in a portfolio.
There was a blank look and I didn't even know what the portfolio was.
Oh, that's classic.
Yeah.
But, you know, obviously you met some great people there and certainly was a nice kickstart to your career in that segment of your career anyway, right?
Well, the important thing was that the instructions there were all, you know, professional people from the automotive industry.
They weren't just, you know, people that thought they could be instruct.
They were real people and would give you some real advice on what the industry was like.
And of course, Strowthorne McMinn was sort of my lead design mentor type guy and the guy that really established the school and put his name on the place and made it what it is.
I mean, for no background and no, you know, doodling of car pictures too.
In 1957, was it you drew your first rendition of the Stingray and where did that come from? Where's the inspiration?
Was it airplanes inspired you? What inspired you on that?
Well, the interesting thing was that in working for Bill Mitchell, he provided the theme because he had gone over to the Turin Auto Show and he had seen a lot of beautiful little Italian streamliners that had this very similar theme.
They were sort of oval shape with a crisp belt line in the middle and a small aerodynamic shape over the top of each tire.
And several different carotidias and manufacturers had all followed this theme and he could see that that was a direction that was being very successful in Europe.
And he brought back a bunch of photographs and laid those out in front of the three of us in the studio and said, this is the idea that I'd like to go and see what you can do with it.
So it just went from there and used that theme and Bill kept coming back and look at the sketches.
By the time we went to maybe the second or third generation, he began to see really what he wanted to do and picked my particular work out as the direction that we would proceed.
How cool is that? And actually see it come to fruition in 1963.
You were no longer with General Motors at the time when the actual 63 Corvette came out. Is that correct or did I miss?
That's correct. I'd already left and gone back to California. I was more interested in getting...
The thing was at that time you had to be 21 years old to get your racing license and I had gone to General Motors before I was 21.
And my whole goal was to go back and start driving race cars.
So as soon as I was 21, I left and went back to start racing.
Well, you went to work at General Motors at 19.
Yes.
That's hard to believe. I mean, it's got to be the youngest person in design that they had ever hired.
They just must have seen something extraordinary in you to do that.
Well, I think that... I actually think that Stroller McMinnon's early days was probably around 19 when he went in.
And then I think Bob Cumberford also was it.
But we were in a couple of weeks of each other, I think.
Sure.
Sure.
Well, and it can't be overstated the impact that the Stingray had.
The Corvette, the 1963 Corvette had.
People were blown away by when they saw that car for the first time and the public saw it.
It was like a spaceship, it felt like, to people.
It was absolutely incredible and it's still a good looking today.
I mean, you just take a split window out today on the road today and it's just...
It's an incredibly beautiful design.
And you have to understand that the final version of that car was actually designed by Larry Shinoda and Tony Lapine.
I had done the concept car, which was actually a little more graceful and beautiful.
But the actual car that you see on the road today was actually Larry Shinoda's car.
Gotcha.
Was the old battle between the engineers and designers in full force at that time?
I mean, were you always fighting for design that they said was going to cost too much?
Well, that's always been true, and I think anywhere in the automotive area.
But the thing is that we had an extremely powerful, strong leader in Bill Mitchell who really understood the value of design.
And of course, he learned that working for Harley Earl for 25 years or so.
So those two really changed American automotive design completely from the fully engineered automobiles that we saw in the 20s and so.
And it moved better and better under Harley Earl.
And then Mitchell took over.
We had the Mitchell era, and that was the high point, really, of American design.
And today, the cars that were created under Mitchell's guidance with a lot of top designers in the top studios,
they are still the very best of American design.
I would argue that the 63, first-gen Riviera is the sexiest, coolest car that there is on the planet.
It was just, it wasn't over the top, it was just perfect for whatever lack of a better term.
Yeah, very super elegant.
And that just, I mean, the car again, you know, like any of the top cars that Mitchell did, you know, the Toronado or, I mean, they were all under his control.
He didn't do personally design those cars, but they were under his direction.
And that's the important thing is to have a top leader who has the eye and the understanding of what is going to work.
And that was Bill Mitchell.
Well, and Harley Earl was the guy, I read somewhere that, you know, he didn't speak to the designers unless you stayed after hours.
And then if you were there after normal quitting time, then he might come over and talk to you at your desk.
Yes, that's exactly what happened.
And that's how I met Earl, because, you know, traditionally, I think that, you know, he, all of his life he's grown up, he was, had the speaking problem.
He wasn't really great in terms of communication.
So he'd operate with his lieutenants and explain what he wanted to them.
And they would, you know, work with the designers directly, but it turned out he was just a really genuine, nice person to work with.
And I felt very, very honored to have spent time directly with Mr. Earl.
Sure, I would imagine so.
And then it was off to California with your ID that said you were 21 and you could go racing.
And you went to work for Shelby.
Did you go to Shelby right away?
Or did you have the job at Shelby?
Or did you get the job once you were there?
No, no, I went out to California and working on my own car there.
I met Max Belchowsky, who I think probably influenced more of things I've did in my life than anything else.
And he had a very interesting garage in Hollywood doing primarily engine conversions and also building his own,
what we call the California Specialists at that time, which were sort of home-built cars with American V8s.
And they were particularly successful under Max's direction because he was really a good engineer,
but he could figure out how to do things very, very inexpensively.
And he built a special called the Old Geller, which was very, very popular in Southern California racing.
And it was popular because here was this guy that had a car that was obviously very inexpensively built.
It was very sort of rough looking, but it was defeating all the latest Maserati's and Ferraris
and all the beautiful cars that were being brought over from Italy.
But Max was smart enough to put top drivers in the car.
He had guys like Dan Gurney and drive that car.
It just tore everybody up and it was a fabulous automobile.
That must have been frustrating to Ferrari and all those manufacturers and those guys over there.
Here's a guy basically out of his garage building something that's whipping their butts.
Well, it's not that he won every race.
Right.
You know, we had top drivers and driving all of those Italian cars too.
You know, I mean, Carol Shelby was driving Maserati's building all with driver Ferraris.
So every weekend that we had there was a great battle between the California and American V8 Specials
and the high RPM Italian cars.
It was a fabulous era of one type of driving and design versus the other.
Well, and Shelby was a great driver before he became, I guess, a manufacturer's lack of a better term.
The AC body worked so well for the Cobra.
Was there others that he was looking at or was it always the AC?
Or was the AC really the only option for him?
Oh, no.
He had tried to go first because he had won with an Aston Martin rider, a wire under John Wire at that time,
was the director.
So he had gone back to Aston Martin and said, you know, would you sell chassis to me?
And of course, he didn't have a dime to work with it and they turned him down.
And he also went to Chevrolet and tried to get some help from them.
But because of their internal ban on performance, they would not agree to cooperate with him.
So Carol really fell into a great little project because they were building a pickup truck in Canada at that time.
And they were going to use this little 221 cubic inch V8 engine, which was quickly enlarged to 260 cubic inches.
And Ford actually had no interest in using that engine from a performance standpoint at all.
They were all involved in NASCAR 427s and running their big stock cars on it.
So Carol got hold of this engine and a couple of good guys in California that knew how to hot rod the engines and put that engine in the AC chassis.
And that was the combination that went.
Nobody else had ever put anything like that together.
And it was immediately successful.
And in the first year that we ran the cars in 1963, the SCCA had just inaugurated their first professional series called the United States Road Racing Championship.
And of course, we were running against all the very best Corvettes, most of them out of the East Coast.
And we showed up with a cobra and just ran away and hit because the power of weight ratio was so good with that car.
It was just a natural winner.
Is a 289 Cobra versus a 427 Cobra?
I mean, you know, the weight of the 427, the heat from the 427, is a 289 a better car?
I don't know.
Two totally different types of automobile.
The 427 was really a stock car motor designed for a big, heavy car on it.
And it put out the horsepower that was really needed.
Now, you have to understand that when Ford wanted to get involved in building GT cars to race against Ferrari, because they could sell GT cars to the public.
The people at Ford didn't really understand that there were two different classifications at Le Mans.
There was the prototype class and there was the GT class.
And to run in the GT class, which is what Henry Ford wanted to build a GT car to compete against Ferrari, you had to build 100 or 50 cars and to homologate them as a stock.
Well, Ford never did that.
So when the first time they showed up with the car, not really understanding what the rules were, they put them in the prototype class and they were just cream.
They didn't have a chance to compete with the faster Ferraris and stuff.
So finally, some of the guys within the company realized that that was really the wrong way to go.
And they pulled that whole program back to Detroit and said, let's take what we have, which was the DT-40 chassis and completely redesign it.
And we'll put some real horsepower in it.
So they put the 427 motors in them.
And at that point, the whole program really became successful.
But you have to understand it never was the GT car.
That car wasn't something you could sell.
It was designed strictly to compete against the prototype Ferraris.
Sure.
And how did the Cobra Daytona come to be?
What's the backstory on that?
Well, the interesting thing was they said you had to have a certain number of cars built, classified as a production automobile, in other words, a homologated car.
We had built at that time the correct number of Cobra Roadsters to qualify for that.
So I went to Carol and I said, you know, there's a paragraph in the rules here that says I can change and put a new body on that chassis because we're already homologated.
And I tried to explain to him because it's a very sort of complicated thing to about understand the rules.
And he listened for a while and, you know, he just said, well, that's a really stupid idea.
I mean, we've got the chance here to go with Ford Motor Company with a mid-engine car with all the latest technology and everything on it.
And I said, well, first of all, they can't build enough cars in time to qualify as a GT car after the prototype.
And they don't have enough horsepower to compete in the prototype class.
So that's a loser to begin with.
But they insisted on going that way because they had millions of dollars and they were proud of what they were doing.
And so I got Carol to speak with the people at Goodyear to put up the money to put a new body of my design on a roadster chassis.
And we built the car primarily, as he said, because he didn't want Ford to know that he was competing directly against him.
He was trying to get that Ford contract.
He sort of qualified this as that we were going to build a chest vehicle for Goodyear tires.
And of course, nobody in the shop really believed what I was proposing.
But it would turn out, for Carol, Carol always understood the value of exposure.
And the people from Goodyear understood that this was going to be something pretty radical looking.
So whether it was successful or not, you know, for shunt change, they could put up a few bugs.
And build this car.
And of course, the only guy that was really backing the program with me was Ken Miles, because he understood what we were doing.
And of course, when we went out with a car that just absolutely annihilated every lap record that we had set with the roadsters,
we were three and a half seconds a lap faster than the roadsters at Riverside.
Just right off the trailer.
So that car, right from the day we pulled it off the trailer, it was a winning car.
Well, and I argue that prior to or since then, there's been nothing that looks like that car.
It's got such a unique look to it that no other car I've ever seen since did.
Was that more function than style?
Or was that, I mean, it became a very stylish car?
It had its own look, of course, and that was influenced by the design work that had been developed by the Germans in the 1930s.
And of course, that information never really became usable over here because World War Two came along.
And those ideas never got to be in any sort of production.
The German designers who did it, Reinhard Kuhnig von Pauschenfeld and Wundewald Kamm, who had done a couple of prototypes with the ideas that I eventually used on the Daytona,
had gone around to the German manufacturers.
And everybody looked at that stuff, you know, with a chopped off tail and it didn't resemble anything of the beautiful swell, you know,
raindrop shaped cars that came out of France or Italy.
And so they didn't get anywhere with it.
So when I went to Carroll with it, of course, I had exactly the same reaction.
Everybody looked at what I was doing and said, you know, that has got to be the dumbest looking car that we've ever had.
And I said, well, you don't understand.
It's not the looks that you think that are going to work.
It's actually the function.
So, you know, we went ahead basically and built the car over in a corner where nobody was paying any attention to us really.
And even when we took the car out to the Riverside for the first time, you know, the crew wasn't interested in going out there.
They knew the car was going to be a failure.
They were absolutely certain that we were going in the wrong direction.
And then, of course, when the car was so brilliantly fast, Carroll realized that he had, you know, really looked into something.
But he had actually been very much against it all the way until we finally got the car going.
And at that point, he said, okay, we'll put all the rest of the guys in the shop on it and finish it up for Daytona.
And we took it to Daytona and, of course, set the lap record there and led the race until it caught fire and it pits.
But there was no question right off the – it was faster than the Ferraris from the very beginning.
Sure.
And are you just astounded at the value of those these days?
I mean, could you ever have thought in your wildest dreams of the value of these things?
Well, it's a historical value on them.
Of course, they were very roughly built.
If you look at a Ferrari GTO that was built at that same time, there were jewelwork Italian craftsmanship on those cars.
So the Daytonas are very, very rough-looking cars compared to those beautiful Ferraris of that period.
But the fact that they were winners and the historical significance that we only built six of them were,
so there was dozens of the Ferraris that were built.
And even the Ferraris are selling in the $40 million and $50 million range right now.
Nobody's ever come even close to that price in a Daytona.
The last estimate I heard was about $30 million for one of them.
But that's not even close to what people are paying for Ferraris.
Sure.
Yeah, I would imagine there's private sale Ferraris that are in the $70 million to $100 million and maybe more.
But I love that the Simeon to see that Cobra Daytona in an as-race condition.
Most people would take that car and try to make it perfectly restored in every nut, every bolt and everything.
I love that that car has got scrapes and scratches and it's just an as-race condition.
Well, sort of.
The problem was, again, that's what Simeon kept trying to tell people.
That's the way that he got the car in the first condition.
But actually, there were a couple of owners in between who had that car who had put different paint on it and the stripes in the long place and everything.
And the car had really kind of gone downhill.
Simeon fixed the car up mechanically so that it would run so that he could demonstrate it.
But it's actually in a very, very rough surface condition, not even close to what the car was like when it was first acquired.
Sure.
And does it have historical racing significance as well?
Did all the Daytonas have racing wins or victories?
Well, that one of that car had obviously more races than most of the cars because it was the first car built.
And as opposed to the last car built, it only had one FIA race.
That was 2286.
Right.
So as we got toward the end of the thing, the series that we were running and winning the GT championship in 1965,
when that car, the last of the six cars raced at Le Mans by then, the plan was to do something else.
So 2287, the car that we were discussing in the car that's in Simeon, New Zealand, was the only car that was built completely in the United States.
That's the car that Ken Miles and myself and John Olsen pretty much put together over in the corner of the shop.
Right.
And it was the first car that was so successful.
As soon as that car became successful, there was nobody else in our shop.
We were such a small group that we couldn't build any more cars to go.
So Carol made an arrangement talking to Alessandro Di Tommaso to go find a small body shop in Modena and see if we sent the chassis to them if they could build the new bodies for us.
So the next five out of the six Daytonas were all the bodies were all built in Italy.
Oh, wow.
And they all vary slightly in appearance.
So each one of the cars is very much hand built.
But because they were all painted, you know, blue with white stripes, everybody thought they were identical, but they weren't.
Sure.
They're all slightly different.
Sure, absolutely well.
And are you surprised that the value of the Cobras, the 289s or the 427s aren't higher than they are?
Did we think that, you know, upon Shelby's passing that those were going to go to $10 million?
And they never really, they seem to have kind of gotten to a certain plateau value wise anyway.
Yes.
Well, you know, it's a very interesting sort of production car, the standard 289.
I think that they're topping out maybe a million, million and a half on the road through these days.
So that seems to be about the spot that.
And I think one of the reasons is that the car has been so copied by so many different recreators that you can buy a better recreation of that car built privately now than you can an original car.
So there are two or three different manufacturers that build Cobra Roadsters that are actually a better engineered automobiles than the ones that we actually put together at Shelby's.
So that I think people wanting to have that car with the great looks and the performance and everything.
It makes a lot more sense to maybe put $200,000, $300,000 in the car instead of three or four times that amount to have an actual real original.
Sure.
We talked to a guy who owned an original Cobra and he said he finally sold it and I asked him why he sold it and he said,
because I was tired of telling people asking me if it was a real one or not.
He said everywhere he'd go, people would say that a real Cobra, you know.
It's always skeptical that it's not a real Cobra.
Especially the cars that are built in South Africa are beautiful, beautiful reproductions and a better automobile all around.
And anybody that wants to have a really nice Cobra, that's a better buy than trying to buy an original.
Sure.
And don't worry about it quite as much.
It's not a historical artifact like a Cobra is.
Exactly.
Yep.
So how did you take a Datsun 510, the boxiest, weirdest looking race car you've ever seen,
and make it the coolest to all of us who were growing up in that era?
That 510 was the coolest thing and the delivery that you had on BRE rate.
Oh my God.
That car is something about it.
You can't even explain to non-car people about a Datsun 510.
You have to be a Datsun guy to really understand it.
Exactly.
Or you have to have grown up and raced in that particular era.
But the main thing was is that the car from an engineering standpoint, if you looked underneath
what was there, I mean, they had full independent suspension on them.
They had disc brakes in the front.
Everything that could make it a good production racing car was in the car.
All it had to do was be developed.
And since all of the cars that were running in that class, the BMW 2002 and the Albus,
basically had all about the same frontal area, it was a very, very competitive class.
And the fact that we had Italian cars, German cars and Japanese cars all running against
each other brought out a whole groups of different people on it.
But from the Japanese standpoint, it was so inexpensive that you could buy that car for
$3,500, put a couple of thousand dollars in it with new wheels and stuff on it and have
a very competitive car, not only on the track, but on the street.
And that was really the whole beginning of the Japanese tuner car market that we created
with BRE and those cars.
And from that standpoint, the success of the car on the racetrack made it go like that.
And it was just the price was so good, you couldn't beat it for the engineering.
And the livery that you came up with for those were just so iconic.
When you see one, it immediately you know what it is.
Well, that came about very much from being a motorsports journalist and a photographer
and then going out and shooting race cars on the track, you really began to know what
was going to work.
And so in designing that livery, I designed it in such a way that it didn't matter what
angle you shot it from, it was going to tell you what the car was.
So it came up with this very unique livery where you can shoot it, whether you were shooting
above it off the roof or the down low or whatever.
It was very, very unique.
And it's again, my background in design and graphics really directed what happened on
that car.
Because every every angle of the car that you look at had graphics on it.
I mean, not a lot of people forgot about the roof.
The roof wasn't thought about from a design standpoint or from a livery standpoint.
Yeah, but it made it such a great shot from the roof.
Yes.
So you've got to, you know, again, being working on the journalist side and knowing how a magazine
is put together, when the art editor is going to illustrate a story, he's going to look
through, you know, several dozen photographs from different photographers and whatever.
And the photographs that really stand out are the ones that he's going to put in the
magazine.
Right.
So if you can deliver something that looks more spectacular on film, that's the shot
that's going to go in.
So again, we probably got more coverage than anybody else simply because the livery helped
to sell the automobile.
And Dotson at the time, Dotson now became Nissan, but they understood the win on Sunday, sell
on Monday, maximum as much as anybody, right?
They figured that that was hugely important back then.
Well, I think they learned from that.
It was very interesting because Mr. Karayama, who was the president of Nissan, USC at that
time had tried to explain to management Japan what he wanted to do.
They, they didn't believe him.
But he risked his entire career and said, I will, I will sell that number of cars if
you allow me to do that.
And so we built just a few cars.
And of course they were sold out immediately.
And that made him, you know, he changed the whole opinion of Japanese automobiles in the
United States.
Sure.
Single handedly.
I mean, Toyota was already involved in doing some cars and Nissan had done some cars on
their own, but it wasn't until Mr. Karayama came in and directed both the Z car and the
510 as cars that he would felt that would sell in the United States that we really saw Nissan
and Dotson take off and become successful.
Sure.
Well, we all, you know, kind of looked down our nose at them when they first came out
because they weren't big American V8s.
And then you drove one and you realized, oh, wow, this is a great car.
And it's a good look at the 240Z was such a great looking car.
I mean, from a design standpoint, just, I don't know if you could come up with anything
any better if you had to go back and do it over again.
Oh, and it's Sarah, it was the top end car.
I mean, it was as significant as the, as the split window Corvette was in its era.
So that, and again, you could buy that car for very little money and have this really
elegant automobile and, and, and it would run for several hundred thousand miles.
I mean, it's just an all around fabulous automobile.
Sure.
Sure.
Well, we could certainly do this all day and we could, I love talking cars and then
to anybody for any amount of time.
And I wanted to congratulate you though on the fact that you're going to be the grand
marshal of the 2026 Rolex Monterey Motorsports reunion.
And it's the features Japanese cars this year.
So how appropriate is that?
That's going to be really great.
You know, so one of the things I wanted to mention is that today, the one thing that
again, that we're very innovative in the market is we build a roll ball trailers to
haul race cars and custom cars.
So if you ever want to see a really high end, slew aerodynamic, well designed trailer to
haul your own race car, we build them.
They're called aeroballs.
And not a lot of them out there, but they're the best in the world.
They're amazing.
And that graphics on that one on your website with the eagle with the talons out, that's
amazing.
Incredible.
Yeah.
All the owners have taken a great pride in those things and done some beautiful graphics
on them.
So we're, we're very, very proud of that product as well.
I love to see that.
Yeah.
I mean, there's not a lot, there's so many car trailer manufacturers out there.
You kind of, you don't recognize most of them.
They all look pretty much the same and yours is completely uniquely different.
And you immediately know what it is when you see it.
And that's, you know, hard to say with a lot of different products that are out there.
Right.
It's totally different.
And it's all in function.
The trailer is so functional in terms of dragging the box through the air.
And because there's nothing wrong with, you know, the way normal trailers are designed,
they're designed to fit as many boxes in them as you can, but they weren't designed
to haul automobiles.
So when you package a trailer around an automobile and figure out that, you know, you're not
going to have all this empty space above it and in the corners.
And you're not going to be pushing a square front in through the air and you can make
it aerodynamic and tow it more, make it more efficient.
It becomes really sensational and they come, you know, fully, fully featured, you know,
there's no extras on them.
They're just fabulous.
Yeah.
We'll throw the website up for the AeroVault trailers and also for BRE as well too.
You still got a pretty active website for that as well.
Absolutely.
Yep.
So my last question I was going to ask is any cool cars left in the garage?
Oh, there's always cool cars.
And there's more cool cars coming in.
Yeah.
No, we're doing some new work right now.
And of course, I don't know if you saw them.
I just finished two really beautiful Stingray split windows.
I really upgraded a production automobile to look more exactly like the car that I had
originally designed for Mitchell.
Wow.
Because of course, when I go into production, there's so many compromises made and these
were opened up through.
So it's called the studio concept.
And it's basically sort of what we would do in the studios at GM.
We would build a very special version for executives or something like that.
So that's the idea on this car is that it's a split window like unlike any other.
I'm anxious to see that.
I haven't seen that yet.
So I'll look forward to seeing that.
And Peter Brock, we really appreciate your time today.
And like I said, we could do this all day long and we hope to see you out at Monterey
this year.
Well, I'll be there and I'll be looking for you.
Thank you very much for the time.
Really enjoyed it.
Thanks so much for being on the show.
We'll be back with a classic automobile show in just a couple of minutes.
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And we're back with a classic automobile show from the ClassicAutomall studio,
Morgantown PA Peter Brock.
Wow.
What a career.
What a legend.
What an amazing, you know, the grand marshal of the Monterey Historics this year.
How cool is that?
If I'm half as sharp as that at 1989, it's just great.
Yeah, great, you know, a great asset to our hobby and everything that we do here.
So much influence came from him, whether it was design, whether it was, you know, the Stingray,
arguably the coolest car that was ever released by Ed 1963.
I mean, that thing just, like I said, it was like a spaceship.
And people just couldn't even believe what they were seeing.
I can't wait to see these photos of the ones that he said that looked more like their original design.
Yeah, and there's an interesting picture on his website.
If you go to his website, Bre, the name of the company, I don't remember what's that name,
his brand you'll put up, it shows the original sketch that he did.
In 1957, six years prior, I mean, that's how far ahead they were, they were working on things.
That's pretty amazing.
He was in the space race for sure.
Oh, yeah.
You know, such an influence.
We talk about this at Lynx, but such an influence from the aerospace industry,
the way the airplanes and so many cars had that feel about them, whether it's the Chrome or that.
And he had a lovely engineer as well for the show.
Yes, he did.
He had his lovely wife, Gail, as the engineer.
She figured it all out.
Where might you say we have sold cars this past week?
Where?
Well, how about Monroe, North Carolina?
Monroe.
I don't know if it's Monroe or Monroe or Pinsburg, Pennsylvania, Abingdon, Maryland, San Antonio, Texas,
Mickelton, New Jersey, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Fernandina, Florida, that's where Amelia Island is.
North Attleboro, Massachusetts, Chalfont, Pennsylvania, Levittown, Pennsylvania,
Attleboro, Massachusetts, without the North, Williamsport, Pennsylvania, and Pihonix, Arizona.
Wow.
Phoenix, Arizona.
That's going to be a spotty map.
In a good way.
In a good way, yes.
So we've got the auction coming up.
June 19th.
June 19th is going to be our auction to be at 10 a.m. here at Classic Automall in the Center Mallway.
We'll have 100 or so cars.
There's the auctioneer.
On cue.
He's just waiting right here.
He's always here for it.
And so if you're interested in consigning your car, if it's something that's already here, we can certainly consign it in
and just take the pictures that we have now and put it on the auction side of the website.
Or if it's something that's not here, we'll certainly, we're happy to take auction cars.
And if it doesn't sell at our auction, if you put a reserve on it, which we are allowing reserve and no reserve,
and if you put a reserve on it, it doesn't sell, then you can leave it here and we can still try to sell it for you.
So we have lots of options.
And if you, if there's anything that you have any questions about or anything to 610-901-3800
or go to the website, ClassicAutomall.com.
And you most of the information, we're a work in progress in adding the stuff.
But sooner rather than later tonight.
Is it May?
Yeah.
Shoot.
Got stuff to do.
Isn't that the truth?
So some of the new arrivals this week.
How about the 1997 Ford F350 XLT Long Bed 4x4 pickup.
Oxford wide over gray, rust free west coast.
It's got a 460.
Yeah.
Good for towing stuff.
Four owner truck, show and haul.
This is a working truck or a showing truck.
People say, why do you carry big trucks here?
Yeah.
Because you can do two things with them.
Carry car parts in it.
Car parts, you want bumpers.
And bumpers.
Carry bumpers.
Next on the new arrival list is the 1993 Cadillac Allante convertible, the last year.
The one to own because it had the North Star.
They got it right and then they stopped making it.
Nice.
Right.
And of course they were pinning Farina bodied.
So they were bodied over in Europe built and then they had to shift.
He was talking about the Cobras and they were shipping the Daytonas over to England.
It's like even back then when it was a lot cheaper to do stuff like that.
Still seems so out of whack from a price standpoint.
How did you make that work?
And same with the Cadillac.
Yeah.
Must be a reason.
How to ship those bodies back and forth.
And the Allante was a better car than we give it credit for.
Yeah.
And they're really collectible.
They're very collectible.
Actually good condition.
They're a very nice looking clean design.
And bright.
Apparently bright.
Really well.
Little personal factoid.
The early Allantes were built on the same line as the La Forza.
There you go.
And who has a La Forza that we know?
That would be me.
That would be Steve.
How about that?
How about that?
Pinna Farina right there.
So how cool is that?
And the Cadillac obviously has got the 4.6 liter North Star V. 4 speed automatic transmission.
Probably ahead of its time.
I think so.
Yeah.
I think that it was probably just a little too early.
Cool car.
So yes.
Another cool car.
The 1958 Morgan Plus 4 Roadster.
Orange over white.
Numbers matching 2 liter 4 cylinder.
Long term ownership.
This one's got a 4 speed manual transmission.
And it's a little diamond in the rough.
It is a diamond in the rough.
Yeah.
But a great little fun British cruiser.
That's something that you can enjoy.
It's not a lot of money.
And it's unusual.
It's somewhat unusual in the British market.
I mean it's not that many of them.
You're not going to see many of the car show.
That's right.
That's for certain.
And I'm not sure orange was its original color.
I can't imagine it was.
But you know.
Go Vols.
So.
Another new.
Flyers.
By the way.
Yeah.
Flyers.
There you go.
Are they in yet?
Tonight's the night.
They take it.
They're all they're taking it.
So we've got a prediction.
Steve is a soothsayer over here now.
Next on the list is 1967 Chevrolet Malibu Chevelle SS 396 tribute.
Irmine white over black.
Which is a really good color.
Why is a good color on the Chevelle.
72,000 actual miles.
402 cubic in four barrel VA.
I don't think most people realize that the 396 was actually a 402.
That's right.
I don't know.
And a 402 or.
You know.
Doesn't sound.
I don't know.
Is cool or.
Yeah.
It wasn't bait and switch.
If it was a 402 and it was only a 396.
You know.
Wait a minute.
I want those extra cubes.
Yeah.
I want that extra six.
But if you know why that was done.
Put comments here in the YouTube channel.
Bottom of the video.
There you go.
That's the place to do it.
396.
I mean that sounds cool.
It's like a Z 28.
Yeah.
The name Z 28 came because it was an option.
It was one of their codes that you see next to an option.
Yeah.
A color blue might be RP 7 and that's blue or RX 8 means it's an automatic transmission.
And Z 28 meant it was a package spoiler and whatever.
They made a Z 34.
They made a Z 34.
It wasn't as cool as Z 24.
You learn something new every day here.
I didn't know.
Well there you go.
Thank you Stuart.
Anytime.
Also on the new arrival list is the 1966 Ford Thunderbird.
Vertical.
Yeah.
Medium sage gold metallic which is a great color for a Thunderbird.
Over black.
I imagine that color wouldn't work for every car.
That's right.
But interesting you know talking about colors and liveries and talking to Peter Brock about
how they designed the livery of BRE to be something that art directors would say oh that's the
best picture we've got so far.
Smart.
Who was thinking about that stuff.
That's so smart.
Yeah.
I mean there was lots of cool liveries but it wasn't thought out in that regard.
How's it going to look in a magazine.
Yeah.
How's it going to look in a magazine.
And is it something that a magazine is going to pick.
Right.
So anyway this Thunderbird is awesome.
390 cubic inch four barrel V8.
Cruzomatic three speed automatic.
Up and coming collectible.
These have been off the radar longer than they've been on the radar.
For whatever reason they were they've gotten a little luxurious I guess and a Thunderbird
kind of had straight from what it was in baby bird era of 19 five six and seven.
They were became bigger bloated whatever and they became more of a luxury cruiser instead
of a sports car if you although I'd argue that a fifty five six or seven.
I don't think so.
But maybe that's just my opinion.
That's kind of how they were marketed though.
But yeah the dashboard is so great in the 60s.
Yeah.
Thunderbirds really kind of drift down into the center console.
My grandmother had a sixty six or sixty seven four twenty nine.
Wow.
Yeah they go.
And last but not least on the new I was in the nineteen sixty nine international twelve
hundred D long bed pickup medium blue over blue 111,637 actual miles.
Detailed logbook included.
You don't see that very often.
The guy wrote down every little thing.
He changed the oil.
I do the same thing.
I know.
I used to have little books.
I kept in my seat.
Every time I got gas I'd write it down.
Oil windshield wipers I'd write it down.
Whenever I hit every five hundred miles I make a little mark.
Make a little note where we were.
That's right.
You could also do that Thomas guy.
You had that map.
It was like the big old.
Uh huh.
I want to talk to Peter about modern conveniences cars and electric cars.
I'll have to have him back on.
Have him back on.
Absolutely.
So this international has got 392 cubic inch four barrel and a four speed manual and a very uncommon car but it's very good looking.
I can't imagine this one's going to last very long.
It's beautiful.
It's really a good looking car.
So anyway that's all the new arrivals and that's some of the places we sold cars this past.
You know we talked about last week about this Montana registration and titling and it's been a thing for a while probably twenty something.
Registering their cars in Montana under an LLC that set up just for their cars and it began all of a sudden states are starting to crack down on this.
They're starting to say look if you don't live in Montana and this car is somewhere else then you're going to have to have to have to have a state and taxes.
Right.
All that stuff.
So it's one of those things that I mean I don't you know you wonder if it's legal in Montana to do it.
I don't know how they can say that it's not legal or else but apparently they can do that.
Big brother.
The big brother.
So apparently that's become a thing and we're hearing more and more about it.
You know there's a lot of this was wealthy guys who had high dollar expensive.
This was a way to form a corporation which all intents and purposes it probably truly is.
I mean there are a lot of assets in these cars.
It's like no different than a Delaware.
I mean yeah Delaware Corporation.
You can incorporate there because it's got less taxes and all that.
And your company doesn't even have to be based there.
So what's the difference between registering a company in Delaware that does business in Florida or registering cars from South Carolina in Montana.
I don't quite understand the difference.
There's a whole cottage industry too of companies that will incorporate you in Montana.
So that's going to be gone if this happens.
Yeah.
I don't even know if it happens it still is but you used to be able to get a New Jersey dealers license with like a UPS postal box.
You just have a box over there.
You didn't need a dealership location.
And of course most states 99% of the states require a physical location.
Which is weird because nowadays so many cars are sold online on consignment like we do.
I mean I sold cars out of my basement.
I never had a garage.
I never had a building.
I never had a dealer license.
I was just selling cars for friends back in Missouri and didn't have all those things.
You had to have a sign that's customer parking.
And it had to have eight inches of letters and you had to have customer parking and you had to have a working telephone still.
Yes.
You have to have a working telephone.
It can't be a cell phone.
It has to be a working telephone.
Pennsylvania is that way as well too.
But I've always said you know we've had dealer licenses now in Tennessee, North Carolina, Missouri and Pennsylvania.
North Carolina was the strictest but the most fair.
They had it so well laid out.
They had a manual that said on page 62 what can I do with a dealer tag?
What can I do with, can my wife drive one of our cars with a dealer tag?
Cam, this happened.
What do I do with this or what if I do if there's a mistake on the title?
How do I fix it?
All of that.
Pennsylvania, they don't really have that.
So everybody's kind of flying a little bit blind and as much as I hate more regulations, there's certain things that with titling and with the way these states are running these dealer programs used to be that you only sold a car within, I've said this, in your own county.
Well now you're selling them all over the world.
No matter even if you're just a buy here, pay here or a small time used car dealer with five cars on the lot, you're still getting a call from a guy down to Maryland going, hey I see you got that 77 Nova and I'm interested.
I don't know why 77 Nova.
Why not?
Why not?
And so you're selling out of state and your paperwork doesn't match up what their paperwork is and Delaware's paper is different, Maryland's paperwork is different.
Not to mention California and Texas and Arizona and all the other places that we sell all over the place.
Yeah.
And just honestly making a mistake or putting something in there that they require that your state doesn't require.
Or death certificates and things like that where one state requires a notarized this and doesn't really care and the other one and then leans and how they're perfected.
Extensions are different.
Electronic title.
I mean the pitfalls of all of this makes you wonder why anybody even buy a car.
He says, haha, jokingly.
Back to the dark ages, ride bikes.
Back to bikes.
In Pennsylvania notaries have this book and they have to put a signature in there.
I was in Delaware just out of convenience at our same bank and they don't require the book.
Yeah, they don't.
I was waiting for her to say here sign here.
Oh no, that's all right.
Yeah, it's amazing how that.
So it's something I think that should be looked at that maybe there's some validity to having this more nationalized with regards to vehicles and that.
And again, I don't know how that all affects Montana and different things like that.
Sort of a reciprocity.
Yeah, but I think that there ought to be a way that, you know, for example, North Carolina has reassignment sheets for a title.
So if you have your name on the front of a title on the back of the title, you can reassign it to your neighbor Joe or to a dealer and then a dealer can reassign it to another dealer and another dealer to another dealer.
And then eventually goes to Joe and Joe has to go get a title for it.
But in North Carolina, they have reassignment sheets.
So you don't fill out anything on the title.
You just put the name of the seller and the name of the buyer and the model of the car on the reassignment sheet.
And if you make a mistake, crumple it up and grab another one and start over.
And so you make a mistake on a title.
Oh, Lord, Lord, Lord.
Notarize the mistake.
You got to notarize the mistake.
Yeah, but the current administration wants more states rights to handle.
Oh, that's true.
They want less national regulations.
So now you get into that.
I don't know what the answer is.
Podcast at classicautomall.com or you can call me directly.
Yeah, or comments on you.
Yeah, or maybe I'll just worry about Pennsylvania and to heck with everybody else.
Try to fix that one.
So there's a lot of things that are gray area for people buying a car and getting the tags and getting the stickers and inspections of that.
And it shouldn't be so gray.
You know, it should be, you should be able to have a definitive place where you go and you get the correct answer of what you can.
Well, at four buyers, it might behoove you to just contact your state and say, look, I'm looking at buying a 40 year old car.
What am I going to need here to license it and title it and do all the things I need?
25 year and older cars in New York state don't have titles per se.
They're registrations, which are the same thing as a title.
But you talk about somebody freaking out that's in Georgia and he gets this thing and goes, well, this isn't a title.
This is a little registration.
Right.
We get a registration and a title here.
No, you don't because in New York, you don't get that.
You go to the DMV and the one girl might say, no, that's not a title.
We can't do that.
And the next girl right next to her will say, oh, sure, we see the time.
So, you know, one of those things.
But but anyway, we will reconvene this time next week, same bat channel for another edition of the Classic Auto Mall show.
And we'll see you then, I guess.
We don't have anything else to talk about.
Do we?
One drop.
We'll catch you next week.
We'll see you then.
And thanks for stopping by.
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About this episode
Peter Brock traces his path from knowing almost nothing about automobile design to shaping some of the most influential performance cars of the era, including the Stingray and Shelby Daytona Coupe. He also explains how the Datsun 510 helped spark the Japanese tuner scene in the U.S., while the show closes with dealership updates, auction news, and a practical detour into the headaches of state-by-state title and registration rules.
Show #241 airdate 04-29-26 Stewart Howden welcomes Peter Brock, C2 Corvette Stingray Designer, Racer and Photojournalist as they discuss his design concepts for the original C2 Stingray as well as his racing career and the #Shelby #CobraDaytona. Steve joins later to talk about new arrivals and the upcoming CAM Auction June 19, 2026. @Chevrolet @GM #1963 #Corvette #Stingray #splitwindow #HarleyEarl #LarryShinoda, #CarrollShelby, #CobraDaytona, #ACCobra, @ZakBrown, #conceptcar @AstonMartin, #FordGT, @Goodyear, #RiversideSpeedway, @Daytona, #LeMans, #Datsun510, #DatsunZcar, @Nissan, #Auction, @Ferrari, #BillMitchell, #TurinAutoShow, SimeoneMuseum.org, Aerovaulttrailer.com, ArtCenterLosAngeles.org
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CONTENT NOTE: Contests, Prizes, Offers, Vehicles & other items may no longer be available or offered after each show's original broadcast or posting date.
Recorded in our Showcase Studio just inside the entrance of the Classic Auto Mall in Morgantown, PA, Host Stewart Howden, Classic Auto Mall President and Classic Car Specialist Steve Saffier talk about this unique and amazing place often with amazing guests.
YES...Classic Auto Mall is a REAL former shopping mall that covers almost EIGHT football fields with an average of nearly ONE THOUSAND classic vehicles under one, climate controlled roof and they're all FOR SALE!
Be sure to LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to be informed of new episodes and SEE them on the Classic Auto Mall YouTube Channel. We also invite you to VISIT US IN PERSON at Classic Auto Mall, one hour west of Philadelphia at PA Turnpike Exit #298, VISIT us online at ClassicAutoMall.com or talk to real, live people about visiting, buying or selling your classic on consignment at 610-901-3804.
