Corralling The Herd, Too Cheap To Ignore, Teach The Kids Manual | Episode 1,041

Well, hello yet again. Happy Tuesday. We're back for the podcast. We've got three

car debates today. Yes. And we've got a bunch of questions. We've got a bunch of

stuff to dive into. There's news up front. I'm just very excited to talk through

all of this. It's gonna be really fun. Well, we had a backlog. Thanks to all of

you for writing us car debates. Keep sending us your car conclusions. We're

running a little thin on car conclusions a little bit. So we decided to stack up

the debates because they were just they're coming in like crazy. So write

us your debates topic Tuesdays. Of course, we want to continue those. But we

just thought in the next few episodes, we'd concentrate on on car debates. So

it's car debates and your questions as well. Please remember before we post

this podcast, we do post now on Instagram on Facebook saying, Hey, we're

looking for your questions. And those are any kind of questions that you've got

preferably car questions. We do a whole non car questions episode every now and

then we try to stay car adjacent with your questions. But this is the stuff

that's on your mind. It's the shorter stuff. Please keep in mind your actual

car debates. Please send those via email. Please don't send those on social

media. It's your other random musings. We love those as well. So we're diving

in. Stand back, everybody. I did AI simply because I had to the Camaro

apparently is coming back according to GM authority. The next gen Camaro is

currently scheduled to enter production in late 2027 at the GM Lansing Grand

River Plant. That is the same chassis as the Cadillac CT five and a yet

unnamed Buick sedan two. So I thought, you know what? What is AI? I think the

four door Camaro. Now, on one hand, you might think it's easy to become a car

designer. All I do is give AI some commands and it spits out a car at

this point. That is how frightening it's become. Yeah. So I, I, I'm not

negating my degree in car design, which is not good at your driving. Your

drawing skill is excellent. But I am very curious to see you versus AI AI

cannot design though. It cannot iterate. It iterates on what exists. So this

is exactly what you think a four door Camaro. This is exactly what AI thinks

a four door Camaro would be. Do I want to know? Well, complete with the RWB

fenders and the kind of half door from a Mazda RX eight. Oh, is that the

thinking here? I can't see the back. It's way back here. RWB tacked on

fenders, the front of a Camaro with the charger overall look. The other

iterations were about the same. It couldn't get past what it, what exists

in the market. It couldn't iterate unless I tell it has some crazy commands.

A RX eight door art is what it's thinking is the door shut line is not

really visible, but imagine a door shut, you know, sort of a half quarter

door, which kind of brings up an interesting thought. Like if it's

going to be a four seat Camaro, why not look at RX eights and the success

and the backseat on those cars was actually kind of spacious. The headroom

wasn't the headroom for actually putting a person back there more so than

some two doors that you can't fit the legs in. Fair. The we had it in our

$12,000 car piece we recently did. The thing is, if this is going to be

built, and I know it's shared chassis components like this before, but if

it's going to be built on something where they're also doing the updated

Cadillac CT five, whatever that's going to be. And they're talking about a Buick

sedan as well. Those will have to be legit four seaters. So if you're sharing

the chassis, what are you doing as far as scale? Are you cutting out something

between the wheels? Are you reducing the wheel base to actually reduce the

overall size of the thing? Because a lot of times when you make a coop from

something that is otherwise a four door, it's not right as a coop. It's too big.

Sea Dodge Charger. Yeah, I mean, yeah, the charger. The two door is way too big.

Yeah, the new one is just way too big. Like, oh, it should be a four door.

The back seat passengers fit fine, but it's easy to do. That's what Porsche did

with the Panamera. But I couldn't help myself because if we're going down this

road with AI, I had to go somewhere, but you might. What have you done? Well,

what is this? This image has been floating around the internet for years.

You've probably seen this C3 Corvette that somebody did a home built,

stretched version. For some reason, the 80s were full of everybody wanting to

create limos out of a sports car. Out of everything they could think of. Yes.

Yes. So here is the C3 Corvette that actually I think isn't a real build by

somebody. I don't know the photographer. I can't attribute this to anybody.

It's an image that's floating around the internet. For those of you that can't see

it, this is a, how do I put this? It is a nail polish color, like a faded nail

polish color. C3 Corvette. I think it's still primer, like Rust-Oleum. Yeah,

maybe, but it is kind of a reddish brown. It is dual teatops, meaning two teatop

rows, one for the front or one for the back row. It is a four door, it is a four

door, four glass panel teatop. Imagine how much does that leak? Anyway, but this

is an actual stretched four door version of the C3 Corvette, which is the

Coke bottle design. I can't believe it exists at all. It isn't sagging in the

middle. So that it means that it's something structural enough that it isn't

sagging. The limos in the 80s, like some sports car and it was like, uh-huh. You have to have

structural rigidity first. Yeah. So if we're going down this road with Corvette,

this is pre-AI to build a four door Corvette. I'm terrified. What does AI think

the C8 four door should look like? And you know what? Oh, it's done the same kind

of thing. It's done the RX8 door again. It's exactly like what you would think a

Z06 C8 Corvette would look like four door stretched, which you know what? It's

not half bad. I've seen worse car design. Let me put it that way. Well, that is

true. I've seen uglier, worse cars that are far more hideous. It almost looks

like if you mixed a C8 and an MC20, something about the way the side of it

looks, it's starting to look a little bit like an MC20 there with, you can see

the RX8 style rear opening door. But imagine the C8, a four door car or a

four passenger Corvette, but it still has to have the engine behind that rear

row. So it's a hugely long. Yes, that's the big thing. This is the second try that

I did. It is a huge long wheelbase. So the Corvette can never share the chassis

that we're talking about with Camaro Buick and Cadillac because it's front

engine. Starting to get some Panamaro vibes in this second image. But still,

this is hugely long. The engine is still behind the passengers. It would have to

be because any longer than this to make it actually four places, we're talking

as long as a duly pickup or something. This feels very Panamaro in the second

image. I see a lot of kind of Panamaro going. At least thought-provoking. I was

like, what is AI thinking? Again, it's pretty much exactly like you would think.

AI would think of a Corvette because it's just iterating. It's stretching.

It's adding doors. So here we go. But that means you too can instantly become

a car designer. You just type some commands and give it some prompts and

bob your uncle. I mean, we're very curious what this is really going to be.

Again, this has come out a lot. It's been discussed a lot in the past week or so.

The return of the Camaro and you and I have only half joked about our fear and

frankly expectation that it will be an SUV. The fact that they're talking about

tying it to the CT5 Cadillac and making a Buick Buick of all people is going to

make a car. Buick, by the way, go on the Buick website right now. There's no cars.

All they make is SUVs. So the fact that they're going to make a Buick Sedan and

I also have to ask this question and look, I want more sedans.

But I'm asking this question. Buick is a brand that survives because of perception

in China. It is a luxury brand that your parents don't own.

And so it was successful in China. And so when they did all the culling of all

the GM brands in the late 2000s, they-

Hacking and slashing. Like for example, I think we in the US

wanted to keep Pontiac and kill Buick. But Pontiac wasn't selling well and it was

only for enthusiast cars. It was kind of the vibe, which is why we wanted to keep it.

But Buick had this perception in China so they kept Buick. But now if you look at

the Buick website, they have killed all sedans and much of their small SUV

product line looks exactly like it was made for China. So if you introduce a

sedan with a Buick badge, is China buying those cars? I can't imagine they are.

So now are you going to try to make that sell in the US? But the point I'm making

in all of these, because all of this is a mystery.

Who knows? Yes.

Product planners.

Thank God that GM is still thinking about making a rear wheel drive car at all.

True.

And because it's GM, they're going to have to amortize it out, which means they're

going to have to make that car in various variations to make it make sense.

So now we're talking CT5 update, which we all hope does exist and is awesome.

We're talking about Buick sedan. What is that going to be? What's the name?

I'm just fascinated.

Can we do something other than the portholes on the side look like again

from Pet Boys?

And how do we do that?

And anything with Vista or...

Yeah, anyway.

Yeah.

But then also, how big does this make the Camaro? Is it like, to your point,

the current two big charger two door?

Let's hope not.

This is like a Hillcat RWB Camaro front end.

Let's hope not.

RX8 doors.

But I'm just excited that they're actually saying Camaro is not going to be an SUV.

They're talking about production late next year as a 2028 model, which is kind of fast.

It's very fast, which means the chassis is already ready to go.

They're in process.

For sure.

Retooled. It takes a lot to retool the plant and get everything switched over.

But I'm a little encouraged because if Cadillac will continue to make the black wing,

CT5V black wing, maybe the Buick becomes the equivalent.

It's like the Pontiac G8.

It's the cheaper, still performance oriented manual, and that would change the perception

of Buick entirely, which I think is a good thing instead of just bland faceless SUVs.

Yes, agreed.

Speaking of some not so great design, less emotional and...

Bland faceless SUVs.

Bland faceless.

Got it.

Yeah, I know where you're going.

And using AI to become a car designer and the Chinese market, Volkswagen has made some

announcements about the ID aura, the ID era, and ID Evo, these new concepts for the Chinese

market.

Here is the family again.

I am questioning if you took the Volkswagen badge off the nose, what specifically feels

and looks like Volkswagen about any of these?

Well, the car in the middle is just a Model 3.

It's just a Model 3.

Here's that ID Evo.

And again, cover up that Volkswagen badge.

What is this?

That is a standby.

That is a Genesis product.

But the Genesis has a lot more flavor.

It does.

Signature look.

It does.

Add another stripe here, the V, the diamond logo shape and refinements on the hood and

the hips.

That's a Genesis product.

Okay, so here is the back of that ID aura.

It's a Model 3 from the front, for sure.

It is.

This to me is sort of like, all right, design team, you're drawing a line, inject some emotion.

Jerk the line upward and there we go.

There's sensitivity and emotion and that's what I see in the fender here.

Here's other car companies are like slashing.

Well, yes, all this stuff.

But what's funny is the arcs you're noticing over those, both of those fenders.

I don't know another way to put this.

Those look like they were put in by a line of code and not by an artist with a wrist.

You can measure the radiuses everywhere.

It looks like they had a drawing and somebody typed in into a prompt, please create an arc

over both fenders.

Cover up, folks.

What is that?

A Renault?

It's a Polestar.

Yes.

It's a Polestar.

All of that.

From the front, it's a Model 3.

From the back, it's a Polestar.

I think that designers who really want to have some creativity and sort of get let out of

the Volkswagen Design Studio go now to Cupra.

It's still in the same company.

Yeah, Cupra's having fun.

They're having a lot of fun and it's clear.

They're emotional.

They're engaged.

The brand is cool, sporty.

Yeah, there's some aggression and stuff too.

Yeah, all of those things.

Whereas Volkswagen over here, even with new concepts, it just still feels like we're

plodding along and they haven't found their voice, their new design language.

Even Kia has a distinct look.

Absolutely.

Love it or hate it.

Yes.

You know it's a Kia now.

They have found their voice.

You're right, you're right.

What is Volkswagen styling?

What is the...

What is it Volkswagen about it?

I'm really sure that I don't know.

Moving on to Volkswagen news for the US, they have decided to stop production of the ID4

at their Chattanooga, Tennessee plant.

This was never really beloved by anybody, really.

I don't think we really loved it.

It was sort of like, first try.

Okay.

Well, here's the thing.

We have had many of you write in that are owners of these and they have been great for

what you bought it for.

But you and I, a while ago, put this ID4 with the Mach E and the Model Y, all right?

And we had a big conversation about SUV EVs.

And this was, really, you made the comment earlier, but you're right.

This was an excellent first attempt, but there was nothing about it that was compelling

and it came in third, distant third.

And this is right around the time that Volkswagen went to their new interface that we so loathed

on the new GTI when it came out, but the interface came from here.

The check engine light that came up on the instrument.

Yeah.

There was a check engine light available.

Yes.

They had a check engine light.

An icon available for the check engine light that looked exactly like a combustion engine,

but we don't know because that's, by the way, if you don't know, the check engine light

is for your exhaust system.

That's the other thing.

Not only is it on an EV where there's not a traditional engine, that light actually connects

to something related to the combustion of the car, which it doesn't do.

What was that light doing there?

Anyway, side note, we had a lot of fun.

We haven't even hired the UX team yet, so let's just use what exists.

We had so much fun with that.

But anyway, so yeah, this, I mean, they have to move on from this.

They have to, especially when you ask somebody to open the frunk on an ID for sure.

Yeah.

And the joke is, it's because there is no frunk.

It doesn't exist and they didn't plan for it.

So I'm kind of glad this is Volkswagen is moving on quickly from this.

Certainly buyers have spoken.

Some concepts that have just recently emerged from Hyundai.

This is only for the Chinese market.

These are new planets in a universe of new products.

Sure.

Hyundai, this is the Venus and Earth concepts.

The Venus is just a sharper edged Prius design.

It's a four door, Kuntas Prius.

It's a four door, anything from Lamborghini kind of design.

You know, it really is.

It's the person that designed that had a Lamborghini and a Prius both on the mood

board of their office and just one, why don't I just don't combine them?

I just put the nose on the, make it a little sharper.

Because the profile of this thing that you're showing is a Prius.

It's single arc.

It's a new Prius.

Yes.

100 percent.

It's just only when you see the nose to go.

Oh, it's a little different than the Prius.

But I would argue there's a lot more emotion and flavor here than anything

Volkswagen has shown.

Oh, I agree with that.

Yes, a ton.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Wow.

This is the surfaces are great.

There's a nice, you know, fillets and radiuses combined with very sharp edges.

Of course, only concepts.

I'm really encouraged because of any of this design language continues to trickle

down, not just from the Chinese market, but to the rest of the world, especially

North America, that is kind of a cool looking SUV.

If we're going to do an SUV that sure, yeah, very much emphasizes what the point

of the car is, the wheel, wheel arches, emphasize, all right, this is more off

road if they're going to be doing this or people carrier.

The A pillars are interesting on this.

They've got glass panels.

Volvo tried that years ago.

Yeah, yeah, because the A pillars got so huge.

I'm really encouraged, but tons of flavor.

Yeah, that earth SUV looks like the kind of stuff you see when somebody is

designing the what our what our civilization is going to look like on the moon or Mars.

It's it's that one of those kind of really bulky, bulbous kind of SUVs with big

fenders, which I'm fine with, at least if it stands out.

I'll be curious to see where these actually go.

They're even leaning into the paint colors for these.

Earth is called Aurora Shield.

Yes.

Mock it, make fun of it, embrace it, anything like sure.

Yes, let's do that.

We recently drove the NX 350 F sport all wheel drive from Lexus.

This is the updated styling here and it is built on the same platform as the Prius

and it was instantly noticeable as we were driving around and the F sport makes

it the suspension does make it stiffer and actually, you know, less body roll.

And and but F sport is is a kind of interesting.

It's a glorified badging exercise.

It really kind of talked about that with Lexus in general.

It is F sport is more about badge than it is about actually making

sure that word sport lands.

The funny thing about driving this in sport mode and leaning into corners,

it'll kind of hang on the tires are your weak point.

They'll give up fairly quickly.

But if you lean in and you kind of drive it in a sporty ish fashion,

nobody around you is expecting the Lexus NX 350 to take corners faster than anyone else.

It's also kind of something I enjoy.

And, you know, you're not expecting me in my luxury SUV,

you're just expecting people to creep along and, you know, safe.

Don't try anything fun or sporty and this comes along and it actually can.

But it just feels like a tall bloated Prius with a sport button.

It's OK.

I just don't think it knows what it wants to be.

The further this lingers, it's still we're adding F sport.

It's still luxury. It's who am I?

It doesn't really know.

Well, but Lexus has been confused on the F sport badging for a while.

Or let me put it another way.

Maybe we've been confused about what F sport badging is supposed to be,

because I could be. I will admit personally, I see that word sport.

It means things. OK, that word sport means this is a better athlete

than the one without the word sport.

But that doesn't apply to Range Rover and it doesn't apply to Lexus.

Right. Range Rover means cheaper. Yes. OK.

Lexus, it means we blacked out some stuff and I mean, it's just a suspension on.

Yeah, anyway, so look, the thing about the NX that we have we have praised before

and I want to come back there.

This is Lexus makes a hatchback in the world of SUV.

It's not really. It's just a slightly lifted hatch.

This is your luxury version of something the size of the Mazda CX 30.

OK, so it is smaller.

All kinds of hybrid on this.

So it gets great gas mileage.

It is interesting because it's a hatch.

That's always been the thing about the NX that I like, OK.

But like my mother-in-law had one for five minutes

and instantly concluded she wasn't sitting high enough and it wasn't big enough.

And I was like, those are the good things.

But she doesn't buy cars like way too high in this thing.

But yeah, but anyway, she doesn't buy cars like I recommend.

So anyway, moving on.

And it's also an attempt to have a slightly less expensive Lexus product.

But these are still pricey once you actually rig them up, especially with the F sport.

Yeah, they really are.

So I know people buy these.

I know that it exists.

I just like to see a new iteration of this like lean into the sport

and make it a luxury golf bar where I see that nimble.

It is the hatch.

But then for Lexus, who buys that?

That that's the problem is that they're big.

Yeah, well, and they have to stay.

Not what we think sport means.

I mean, I also do like the fact this has got Lexus latest interface,

which is a vast, vast, vast improvement.

I mean, I can't even tell you anything was so, you know, the interface is good.

I mean, this is worthwhile.

It's just it doesn't necessarily say what you and I want sport to say.

And it's not here.

Words mean things.

I know it's not SUV enough for the SUV crowd.

My mother-in-law is evidence.

OK, and it's not small enough.

Let me rephrase it's not low enough for somebody where I look at it and go,

that should be a hatch.

It's like right in the middle.

Who am I?

But I will embrace lifted hatches, because at least we had hatches back.

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I know you're not surprised to hear that we have track days coming up with hooked on driving.

We do a lot of that and it is fast and furious right now.

That is not well, it's actually a reference to my shirt,

but it's not meant to be a reference to the movies.

The reality here is we've got a bunch of events happening all at once this coming

weekend somewhere near you.

There is an HOD event because we're at Thunder Hill doing two mile training day

for the two mile course, which is the West course.

And that one's going to be really, really cool.

My son's actually going to be doing his first track day.

That's not why it's cool.

I'm just glad we have an event that he can go to, but that's going to be really cool.

There's a bunch of novices happening that day, but we're doing training

and refining people's driving.

So that's having a Thunder Hill, but the same two days.

Motorsports Park in Hastings, Nebraska is our Midwest region is doing that event.

So that's happening and also those same two.

So we've gone West Coast, I'm now in the middle of the country.

Now, what about the East Coast?

Got you covered there too.

NJMP Thunderbolt is happening with our Northeast region is doing the exact same

two days that is April the 18th and the 19th, Saturday, Sunday.

So that's a Thunderbolt course and they're also doing their first ever round

of time trials, which we're very curious to hear how that goes.

They had some good people signing up for that, just trying to who can do fastest

lap, the whole separate part of your headspace.

So we've got it from training day to time trial.

Yeah, where's your where's your event between?

So if you're in the Northeast, yeah, run to hooked on driving.com

because there's just a few spots left for that Thunderbolt track day and should

be nice weather.

So we're excited for that.

And we're excited that there's three events on the same weekend across the country,

which is huge coming up in Austin, Texas, circuit of the Americas is the weekend

after Memorial Day weekend in the U.S.

That is May 30th and 31st.

The registrations are going nuts, which is great.

I'm not sure if there's space left, but there might be depending upon your

your place, depending on your run group.

Yes, the A run groups sold out, but yeah, go to again, hooked on driving

to check where there is space available.

We want to see you there.

And you know what?

Even if you're not on track, come see us.

Todd and are going to be there.

Come see us.

We'll be doing a podcast from there as well.

We will.

And just like we did last year, which is cool.

And yeah, it's just going to be an incredible, great event.

Again, end of May, weather should be still.

It's going to be it's not going to be a magnifying glass.

It's not going to be August, but it's still going to be hung.

But it should be good.

I mean, keep in mind here, when we talk about these events selling out,

it's because at hooked on driving, we actually keep our run groups low.

We want to make sure that you're going to have a decent time on track.

Just just a string of cars going around a track that's actually not much fun.

It feels like slightly faster traffic, which is

I mean, you know, traffic with curbs.

I just know what what's that.

But here's the thing.

It's common, though, a lot of our competition will just be like,

well, let's just keep putting cars on track.

We got money to make here.

So we actually do limit the number of cars on track in all of our regions.

And that's why Kota is selling out.

That's why some of these others are selling out

because we keep them run groups smaller.

Coming up August 2nd to the 9th.

I think there's one slot left for this year's pilgrimage trip.

It is a little bit longer.

It is two days on Spa-Francorchamps, which we love.

And a single day on the ring, which is fantastic as well

with a road tour in between, but the ends of the trip, the beginning and the end

are also a little bit more relaxed, including some time just to get acclimated,

get over jet lag, all of those things.

So if you are interested in the environment, too, it's going to be great,

which everybody wants to do.

I mean, we're there to drive and have a great time doing so.

But you also just want to go to restaurants and see the towns and relax a little bit.

So that's also included on hooked on driving dot com or everyday driver dot

com slash adventures.

You can go there to register, too.

It'll take you to the exact same place and you can register.

Hopefully take that last spot there and we'd love to have you.

We've wanted to have you.

We've invited you.

You've thought about it.

You've looked at your bank account.

You've got to come at least sometime.

I mean, one of these years you've got to.

But this is the year to take that last spot.

So jump on it. Yes.

But, you know, I've mentioned this before.

Look, this trip's expensive.

I'm not going to get away from the fact this trip's expensive.

But think about the fact that you're in Europe.

The cars provided, the fuel, the instructors, the everything.

There's there's nothing else for you to buy into.

And you could go do road tours with some of our competitors in the U.S.

where you have to bring your own car and pay your own fuel and you're spending

as much as this trip.

I am not pretending this is not an expensive trip.

It's an expensive trip, but it is all inclusive on another continent

on two of the most iconic racetracks on the planet, plus some tourist days.

You really you got to come for all our adventures this year.

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You've got three debates because we're working through the backlog.

I love it. We'll get to yours.

If we don't get to yours, we apologize, but we've got a lot.

We're asking for a lot, but we're excited to help you find a great car

that you're going to drive next.

And we've got an email from our friend Rob G in Wyoming.

We know Rob.

Rob has been with us on one of our pilgrimage trips.

He fell in love with the Hyundai i20N.

And he was like, this is such a great car.

Why don't we get this car?

Like he was like sort of running around to everyone going, you loved it.

Why don't we have you driven this?

You need to know about this car.

Drive this car. Yeah, it was really fun.

You know, so Rob is a great guy, great enthusiast.

And he is also the guy that bought your Nissan 300DX.

He actually lives out in Laramie, Wyoming.

And he, after actually coming on some of our Utah meetups as well,

he ended up buying my 300ZX from me.

It was a sad day, but it went to the right owner.

Rob bought it and drove out.

And it was interesting that this relates to where we're going here.

He bought it.

He buys my 300ZX from me here in Park City

and he's driving to Laramie, Wyoming, OK, which is a full day drive.

It's like 400 something miles, OK, driving across I80.

And he gets into the 300ZX twin turbo.

All right, with his experience being his

2018 C7 Grand Sport Corvette.

Yeah. And he texted me when he got home.

I know, no, take it back.

Who's halfway through the drive.

He's like, how much power does this thing have?

Because he was really surprised at how competitive

or possibly even more powerful the Z felt

than his expectation he brought in from the C7.

So he's had that car since then and loves it.

And we're going to talk about cars for him because he has concluded

he has too many and it's time to let go.

And he's not sure which cars and how, Rob.

I really appreciate you writing.

I'm excited to dive into this email.

The following cars that are on the chopping block.

So it's just everything in his fleet eligible.

He realizes he's not Jay Leno.

He's not going to drive everything enough.

So he's got stuff that sits around.

He's got a 2018 Corvette Grand Sport C7 Grand Sport.

He's got a 2017 Fiesta ST.

A 2003 Miata Club Sport.

So the NB club sport, one of 50 produced.

Okay.

And a 1989 Porsche 944 S2 and also a 1981 Volkswagen

Rabbit convertible.

That's the five that are that he first includes.

And then I'm sitting here when I read that, I was like, wait a minute,

where's the 300 ZX?

Right.

There's an addendum.

He's got the 300 Z and a 2007 Pontiac Solstice club sport that is

currently undergoing an LS swap that he's hoping to make it into the modern

day Cobra.

That'll be an interesting build.

When you're done, Rob, we need to drive that car.

I'd love to drive that car.

That's going to be okay.

Let me think about it.

The turbo version of the Solstice was 260 horsepower and torque, which is a fun

little sports car, which was because the base version was less than 200 of each.

And it was okay.

So the turbo version was 250 each.

I mean, it was like 260 in it.

It was horsepower and torque were the same.

It was a turbo motor that was people had issues with it, but it was powerful.

Okay.

He's talking about almost being double that, which is the whole Cobra recipe.

Four to 500 horsepower probably is where he'll probably end up in that car.

And with the turbo motor, it was quick.

Yeah, that'll be interesting.

Rob should probably thin the fleet.

He says, if you were to consider this rationally, no more than three cars.

Okay.

But that means you already have the Fiesta ST that you daily and you love and

the Z and the Cobra.

So, I mean, that means we're selling everything, but I've got choices for you.

Don't worry, Ron, but there's a secondary part of this.

He says his wife actually is involved in a horse rescue.

So they have, they have a ranch that they work on that's a horse rescue.

He says, he feels like every time he goes out of town, his wife buys a truck.

Rob has stopped traveling.

Apparently every time he leaves, she just goes and buys a truck.

He cannot believe how many trucks she has.

She currently has a 2023 Yukon Denali, a 2025 Toyota Tundra and a 2026

GMC Canyon Denali.

He's frightened for two things.

If he sells a car, it leaves space.

And then if he sells a car and leaves town, it's going to have a truck in it.

So he's very, he's a little worried, but he's hoping that he can pair this down

because the Fiesta is an interesting part of this.

That is the one he drives the most.

Yeah, this is the coolest of cars, but the Fiesta ST has just become his daily

and he actually went to the team O'Neill rally school last year and he has just

decided to leave snow tires on his car at all times.

He left foot breaks, rallies this car down these ranching back roads.

It drives it year round.

Loves it.

And look, we've talked about the Fiesta ST plenty.

So you guys know that we love it.

He just realizes that's the one he just drives constantly, which means the rest

of these cars mostly sit.

That's why I love that Hyundai I-20N.

Of course, it's the same kind of feel.

Yes, absolutely.

You can totally see it.

Of all of Rob's cars, the Corvette is the most valuable and therefore the one

that will finance a greater portion of his wife's next truck.

Let's see if we need to buy a truck.

Which one of these is the best truck buddy?

Love it.

It's the one that he puts the second most miles on because he does a cross

country trip about 6,000 miles twice a year to visit his dad.

It's a great upgrade to the Fiesta on long highway trips.

Agreed.

I mean, that Fiesta is fun and daily and all that stuff.

It's not a road trip.

No, not, not over the whole course of the U.S.

6,000 miles in a Fiesta ST.

I love the Fiesta ST, but no.

On the, on the vet, I guess.

No, I'm saying, I'm just imagining it.

Oh, 6,000.

I'm saying, can you imagine a 6,000?

No, no, and I love the Fiesta ST, but no, we're not doing that.

No.

He says the Corvette was bought as a track car, but now is more of a GT car.

And the other cars are play toys.

The Miata is pure, has a few track upgrades.

The S2, he says, he said he would never sell it.

It doesn't get enough road use to justify being in the fleet compared to the

rest of the fleet.

Yep.

He would also hesitate to make it a Corvette replacement, especially for the,

the, uh, the long road miles, which he could, and it'd be kind of an in-betweener

for the first, maybe 1,000 miles.

He'd be like, well, I'm fine.

After that, you're like, I'm not so fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he realizes also that the 300 ZX, if its best place would be probably to

duplicate what the Corvette does, which is the long grand touring drives, but he

would rather be in the more modern Corvette than the 30 year old 300 ZX.

If he's going to really drive 6,000 miles, this is really interesting.

He doesn't yet have the converted solstice back from the shop.

He doesn't think he's ready to sell it either.

I mean, you don't even have it built yet.

So we got to drive.

We got to review it before you can sell it if you're going to sell it.

The Volkswagen is there because he owned one as a teenager, because that's, I

guess, what you do when you're older.

And he says Todd's car is just fun.

I like how he refers to it as Todd's car because he's maybe just saving it for

the day you want to buy it back.

Every now that he's like, Hey, when you're ready, I've got it for you.

I'm like, oh, the budget doesn't say that right now, but I would love to have

that car back anyway.

But here's the side note, Rob, thank you that, that you love that car.

You keep it running.

You're the right owner.

And I would, I will admit, honestly, I'd love to have that car back.

I would love you to have the struggle for me is, when would I use it?

Because I have that rule that I put out here a lot of times on the podcast.

Yes, exactly.

No, you're totally right.

Absolutely right.

Because I have two Lotus and I have two Cayens and my son has a fun mini.

And the question becomes, when would I drive the Z?

And because look, I know this sounds, this sounds insane.

I know it does.

But I have this question among myself about the two Lotus products that I own.

Because my whole rule is you need to drive a car about 2000 miles a year to

justify its existence in your life.

Really?

Yeah, I know.

You're having trouble on 28.

Yeah, I don't know where that rule came from.

Yeah, exactly.

So, I mean, I really do, I do weigh which one am I driving because I want to

make sure they both get driven as a part of me that goes, one of these cars

could go to somebody that might drive it more.

So, I love that 300 ZX would love to have it back, but I really do question.

Where would I go with it?

And then, then I come to this, if I had the 300 back, I think the best place

would be to set up destination drives, to actually do at least overnighter

road trips with it, which it shines, which it's great at, which makes me think

Robby should be using it in place of your Corvette.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Anyway, lots of good stuff here.

Hey, everyone, Rob is selling the fleet.

Jump on it now.

It's a good fleet.

It really is.

He keeps them in great shape.

Email us if you'd like to, to buy one of Rob's cars, because Rob, I think

you should sell all of them, except for the Fiesta ST, except for Todd Z and

except for the LS swap yet to be built Solstice, which the Pontiac Cobra, right?

What are we calling this thing?

I don't know.

So, maybe that gets sold down the road, but I think the Miata and the 944 need

to go, you're just not using them.

I love that you bought the rabbit and you had one as a teenager and cool

and now I want you to have a new experience because that seems to be what

you're looking for.

So everything needs to go.

Maybe your wife gets another truck, but I feel like it needs to do something.

The others don't.

And not just a fourth.

Oh, that's a good truck.

Rob, challenge your wife with what does the next truck she wants to buy do the

current trucks don't.

That's a good question.

And here we go, Rob, if you're selling four cars, could she sell one of the trucks

if she gets another one?

I mean, she's got the 26.

She's got 100.

I mean, what, what in her fleet of trucks?

What are all the trucks doing that's different?

Right.

That's my question.

Maybe they're assigned for different business purposes.

And so I use that for this.

And okay, maybe.

Look, I admit, Rob and his wife, these are genuine people that need to buy

heavy duty trucks to haul serious horse trailers around the country.

There is some heavy duty truck worthwhile use going on here, but there's also a

lot of overlap in this fleet overlap.

So maybe she sells a truck and yeah, you get a new truck and still we're only

at three, Rob, you sell four cars and maybe replace it with one.

My first question for you, Rob, is what car have you always wanted?

Hmm.

Okay.

This is a hard question to ask because there's cars we think we want.

I do this.

I'm going to point the fingers at me.

I think I've always wanted that car.

No, you've wanted it for about 12 minutes because you saw the bring a trailer listing.

You saw some sort of, you know, I've been roaming.

Through cars and like, Oh, I didn't know those were cheap.

I've always wanted those.

No, I've wanted it for five minutes because I just saw how cheap where they were.

So this is also the YouTube got to be honest with yourself.

Yes.

This is the YouTube problem.

The number of cars that you and I come across like, Oh, we should get those into

a video on it.

And then I realized, yes, and people would watch it for one video.

And now we have a car we own.

I mean, that's like a via crossing a brat.

Exactly.

There's been so many times those are the top two, my friend.

There's been so many times when you and I have thought about buying cars for

the show and we realized it would be one video.

We were like, Oh, really cool.

You bought one of those and then everybody just goes on snooze.

We got four more videos to make and people don't care.

Yeah, for sure.

Unless we went out and broke it and we don't want to break them on purpose.

Anyway, only you can answer this, Rob.

If the car, let's say you've always wanted a 9 11.

You've had the 9 44.

So you've tasted Porsche goodness, but let's say you wanted a 9 11.

So what I'm thinking about is the long road trips.

I'm thinking about putting miles on this car.

I'm thinking about using it in bad weather and the official press photo

from Porsche shows it being used in bad weather, which I love.

Yes.

So this is just a straight up career for it's not even S.

The career for is still plenty of power.

It would be new, reliable, selling four cars plus your budget.

You could easily get one of these slightly used.

So like a twenty twenty one, maybe somewhere in there, just a straight up

career for use it, but you can't be precious with it.

You would have to drive, you would have to put the miles on it

and you would have to drive it in bad weather.

True. Yeah, and he would because he loves the Fiesta ST.

That's only front wheel drive and he bombs around it all year in Wyoming weather.

But this, OK, put great tires on it and do the road trip thing.

Drive it in bad weather.

There is a perception issue with any time you introduce 9 11's.

It's oh, who are we now?

Yeah, true. There's always that perception.

And again, this might not be the car you've always wanted.

So maybe that is out.

You're using it as an example.

I get it. Yeah.

I mean, yes, but maybe it is.

Yeah. And also 9 11 is a pretty safe

guess for most enthusiasts.

The car they always wanted is probably modern, spacious, reliable, good.

But maybe you get rid of the Corvette and you look at the new Grand Sport,

the C8 and I say the new Grand Sport because you already know the Grand Sport

is probably the sweet spot for any model that you want to buy of the Corvette.

And also it's the new rear engine.

So the mid-engine Corvette there and you love the C7.

The C8 is a great car.

This would excel at performance driving,

but also still is the C8 Corvette great for road trips,

which we've proven over and over again.

So I think you could visit your local dealer.

Probably not in Laramie.

Probably not. Maybe Denver.

Denver would Denver would get you one.

Maybe for Collins, maybe Denver.

Yeah, somewhere in there.

Yeah, I don't even know that Cheyenne's getting a whole lot of of C8s.

Maybe, maybe go talk to them and say, OK, where are we at on the Grand Sport?

Maybe even the Stingray because it got the same engine,

but the Grand Sport is, as you know, the sweet spot there.

I thought, all right, you want something performance,

you want something comfortable, long distance, drive year round,

but still rear wheel drive fun, CT5V Blackwing.

The 2022 models are about 94,000 with low ish models.

You don't have to go brand new.

So we're still talking expensive.

But again, we're selling four cars and you're probably justifying.

Well, honey, if you got a new $100,000 truck, I got to.

Sorry, I got to keep up with this truck.

Do now, what is that one for?

Right. So I say CT5V Blackwing is on your list.

But the actual car that I think you should buy.

I think you're more of a buyer like Todd.

It's not just because you bought a Z, but just because of knowing you a little bit

and knowing your enthusiastic driving habits, knowing your fleet,

knowing what you're looking for in a car and kind of knowing what you want to spend.

I think now's the time, Rob.

I think you should get in a mirror.

I'm not saying by Todd's, you don't have to buy.

No, please don't buy another one of my cars.

I'm struggling with that enough.

Let's not do that again.

But look at a mirror.

Look, they come in a nice selection of engine and transmission options.

But you have proven this is great at GT car.

Yes, it's great on track.

So performance driving, but it is still excellent for a road trip.

So very comfortable.

So I feel fully confident.

A 6,000 mile road trip.

Yeah, do it twice a fine, put all the miles on this and enjoy it

because it would really be very comfortable, very.

And, you know, you'd look forward to driving it and then keep the fiesta.

Keep bombing around in that thing and grinding it into the earth.

And then you've got the Amira in the garage.

Your wife's got three new trucks.

All the trucks make me laugh.

I mean, I know she uses them, but we really are.

I really do think and I've never met your wife, Rob,

but we've joked about this before together.

I really do think the question for your wife the next time is,

what does this truck do that the others don't?

And look, if she wants to buy a TRX and jump a dune, that's a new usage.

I get it.

But my point is for the kind of TRX, I don't know, maybe that's what she gets.

That's terrible, but she's got to sell one.

I feel like she's got to sell one.

You're selling four.

You get an Amira, she gets a TRX.

That's awesome.

It's good stuff.

It's really good stuff.

So, so Rob, I actually didn't add a car.

I just thought about how do we get you out of some of these cars?

And that's been the big question.

And one of the big things you started with here is how do you let go?

And Paul, you've done a really good job of talking about this before,

but I'm going to go back through it.

And that is what you need to do to let a car go, a car that you love,

a car that you've bought for whatever reasons.

You've got nostalgia buys.

You've got cars you've just happened to have for a while.

There's lots of stuff in your garage.

And we all feel this for sure.

I know I do.

What you've got to do is go do something unique with the car you're going to get

rid of unless you already have.

Maybe you already have, but like, I'm going to give you the obvious one.

And that is this Volkswagen you've got.

You fully admit it.

The 1981 Volkswagen Rabbit convertible.

You bought it as an nostalgia play.

It has no business being in your life.

I think it's had one early in your life.

You don't drive this one now.

You just say, I have it because I used to have one.

And I get that.

And that, let's be honest.

That was a part of the reason I got a 300 ZX again.

But I think we all, if we have enough space and budget, we all end up doing this.

We buy the car.

Oh, yeah, you know, I had one of those going to buy it again.

And then you realize, yeah, I have one because it's nostalgia.

But it's, you know what it's like?

It's like riding the first bike you learn to ride a bike on.

It's you have that.

And I, here's the thing.

I know parents, I know parents.

You go in their barn and they've got every bike their kid ever rode.

And I'm sitting here going, are you serious?

Why? I've known multiple parents like this.

They're like, they have the collection of all their kids bikes.

And we're keeping these because why?

This is a good question, but it doesn't even ride them.

But it would almost be like, you know, I'm not going to go that far back.

It would almost be like, OK, so when my son got big enough and he's almost my size.

Now you got big enough to ride a legitimate normal sized mountain bike.

But his skills and his size still went past that.

He could ride the old one, but why would he?

That's kind of what happens when you buy a nostalgia car

and you don't really drive it.

Would you go, I still have one, isn't it cool?

So take an adventure or a trip or even just almost a tourist drive

to some interesting event with the car you're getting ready to sell.

Have the photos, have the video, have the experience that is an iconic memory moment.

It's that thing we do with vacations.

You probably can't tell me, you, all of us collectively,

you can't tell me much about how your last year of work went because it was work.

But if I ask you about that vacation you took, you can tell me a lot about that.

Have that vacation moment with the car you're going to get rid of.

Do the photos, do the video.

Then it becomes locked in as an iconic memory.

And then you have the photos in the video, the photos are the best for this.

They come up on your rotation on your laptop

or they have a really cool photo on the piano or wherever it is,

the mantle wherever you put photos in your house.

Do that and then you can sell the car.

And though you don't have the car anymore sitting there rotting, not being driven,

but you have that iconic memory no one can take.

That's how you do it.

You have those experiences.

You have those better way to put it, vacation moments with each of the cars.

I'm selling lots of stuff here, man.

The Volkswagen goes, it's a nostalgia play.

It goes the 944 S2.

You've told me this a couple of times.

You bought it, said, I love it.

It's perfect.

I'm never selling it.

And then you proceeded to buy cars that superseded.

I kind of want to buy it.

And then I realized, like, I do not need that.

Yes. So look, you brought on one of our road trips once.

I mean, it's a very cool car, but the 944 should go to somebody

that's going to drive it a lot and that candidly Rob is not you.

The Miata club sport is the same thing.

You are a guy with tracking in your history,

but you are a guy who rarely goes to track days anymore.

And because you're going to track days, you often will do something

like take the Corvette because it's really nice to get to the track day.

And then it's awesome on the track.

So that so that club sport doesn't have a purpose either.

It's a stripped out, unique.

Some Miata guy out there is foaming at the mouth right now.

Yes, Rob might be selling that club sport.

It's one of 50. It's a special car.

Sell it. Yes. You know what you have.

Sell it for a legitimate price.

We're not gouging anybody, but sell it for a legitimate price.

So somebody that's going to drive that thing like crazy.

I want the person that buys that to only track it.

Agree. OK.

So the club sport goes, the 944 goes, the rabbit goes.

This leaves us with the Fiesta ST, which I think has to stay.

I think it has to stay.

It's the car that you have no preciousness about.

You drive it. It doesn't matter the weather.

When he's on like road gravel rally, I'm taking it to work.

And yes, I picture you hooting that car.

Robin, again, you love the little hatchbacks at the ring and spa so much.

I totally get what you get.

That just has to stay because that is the workhorse.

You drive it all the time.

So it leaves us with the Grand Sport, the 300 ZX and the to be built

LS version of the solstice, the Pontiac Cobra. Exactly.

So let me actually look at these from a slightly different light.

You have the following, the daily, the Fiesta.

You have the project, the solstice, and you have the special occasion car,

which is the 300 ZX.

When you just want to have just a driving experience,

just one of those kind of like warm bath driving experience,

just kind of like, this is just cool, isn't it?

You can go fast. You can go slow.

It can be a boring road. It can be great.

You're just like, this is like you use the term automotive sorbet.

I just want to have just a nice day in a cool car.

The 300 ZX does that wonderfully well.

You've got those three things.

So what happens to the vet?

And I thought about this a lot because I could argue

that the vet and the 300 ZX overlap so much

that you could sell either one of them.

Now, I like the 300 ZX. It's more unique.

I want you to keep that.

But the lingering thing is this 6000 mile trip.

And Rob, I don't have an answer here,

but I have a real serious question.

Why not fly?

Why are you flying because he loves cars and wants to drive?

I know, but a 6000 mile road trip says to me,

you're driving cross country US and back.

Most of that drive is not fun.

Yeah. Most of it isn't fun.

You set out from anywhere in the US right now

and you go 3000 miles in one direction, 3000 miles back.

A lot of that 3000 each way is not going to be good.

So start flying and don't buy anything?

So my thinking here is, literally,

you could even sell the vet

and then you have plenty of money to fly, rent a car.

I don't get the impression rent a vet, whatever.

But you're going to see your dad.

You're not going to have a fun drive.

And a good percentage of the drive there

probably isn't fun either.

Now, I get the cleansing reality of road trips.

You and I love road trip films.

We have a big one coming up this year.

I cannot wait to share that with all of you.

So we love road trips.

I get it, but take the time

and less fun driving out of that 6000 mile road trip

and just fly, start flying, renting a car,

see your dad like you want.

I love that.

But then have cars in your actual orbit

that you can just have fun with.

And then at that point, the vet might be able to go.

And I did also think about this.

This is my only flip side where I chase my own argument.

And that is, I wanted to pull up this picture

of that exact 300 ZX in Seattle on the coast.

That's such a great car.

Any of you are wondering about this.

Seattle is not close.

Yeah.

Seattle straight is, it's what?

Like 1200 miles, if you go direct.

It's not quite that far, but it's 700, it's 800 ish.

Almost 900, yeah.

We did this the long way.

We went here to San Francisco,

which is 700 miles one way.

And then we went from San Francisco

all the way up the coast road.

And I think grand total when we were done,

this was at least 2000 miles on this car.

And it was awesome.

It was fine.

The car was just.

I would road trip this car back and forth

across country all the time.

Now I do understand it's a 1991.

That is a lot scarier than a 2018 Corvette Grand Sport.

There's kind of no cooler feeling

than being in the middle of nowhere.

In a car, people don't even see in cities.

We had that experience of all of these road trips.

You are near nothing in a car that people never see

when there's support for it.

And you're driving along going, yeah, and?

I love that so much.

So I would road trip this car like crazy if I had it back,

but I understand the dangers.

But Rob, I think it's sells some stuff.

It's fly to see your dad and call that car list down

to stuff that has direct purposes.

And I think you'll get there.

We know that you're either shopping for your next car

or looking up prices for fun.

We do it too.

And we only use autotempus.com.

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Joel is in Minnesota.

His new car debate is a car for his wife.

Well, it's kind of for everybody.

It's for him, it's for everybody.

There's a list of cars here too.

We keep, I pull his photos out of the email.

Good, good, I'm glad because I wanna see all these cars.

This is what, literally, I haven't done this

in a long time in an email.

I started reading Joel's email and I lost track of cars.

I was like, wait, what's staying and what's going?

I had to make a side list to be like, okay, that's the list.

Agreed, I had to do that just to keep track of everything.

Joel sent us photos, Joel, thank you so much.

He starts to describe all the cars that he has.

And like Rob, Joel's got a fleet.

He's got a lot of cars.

They recently adopted a baby girl.

Congratulations, Joel.

In the current stable is a 2010 Volkswagen Toreg TDI.

Diesel is the family hauler and tow vehicle.

It's not going anywhere.

Shown towing a Mazda B2200, which he is selling.

That is a 1990 Mazda.

I like the two-fold photo here, by the way,

in the middle of somewhere with a really cool sunset.

That's like a road trip photo.

That must be from buying that Mazda.

Look how small that Mazda pickup is.

Pickups aren't that tiny anymore.

He's also got a 2007 BMW 328i manual.

That's Joel's car, but he's going to be selling it

to get something with an automatic.

So here's that car.

His wife has a 2004 BMW Z4.

This is her fun car.

Great photo with the sunset.

Really nice.

This is not going anywhere.

The Mazda's going.

The 328's going.

So far, the Volkswagen Toreg is staying.

And this is the BMWs.

Joel also has a 1987 Fiero GT, which is one of his fun cars.

So that's staying.

That's cool.

Cool photo.

You so rarely see those cars.

It looks good moving.

I really like it.

They look really cool, yeah.

And Joel also has a 1999 911 that he bought last year

for his birthday.

This is definitely staying.

And they did a 3,000 mile road trip in this thing,

which is excellent.

They went to Yellowstone.

They were inspired by the show, which

I love that our road trips inspire you to take a road trip.

That's fantastic.

His wife is short, five foot one.

They always intended for her to drive the Toreg around,

while the kid's getting bigger.

But she's struggling to get the car seat into the SUV.

Their daughter isn't getting any smaller.

And she wants a car, so.

Here's the funny thing.

How many times have we heard, and look,

my wife is subject to this, have we

heard that small women want to be in a big truck?

His five foot one wife is going, this is too big.

I need it smaller and down here with me

so I can deal with the child.

I love that.

That's great.

The Volkswagen Toreg will also become the bad weather tow

vehicle that Joel will use when he's not driving his other

cars.

So yeah, sell the BMW, sell the Mazda pickup,

and add something.

Joel works from home four days a week,

and his wife runs a home daycare.

And she said, since Joel's willing to sell his car

to get something bigger, she wants to drive it too.

So it's for Joel's wife, but he's like, well,

I'm going to drive it, and my wife wants to drive it too.

She has admitted that even though it's a car for her

to use all the time, it means it needs to be auto,

but it also, because he's making a sacrifice,

it can be interesting and fun.

Reliability is important because Joel knows how

to wrench on cars.

Gas mileage isn't a big concern since they don't commute

that much, and Joel is not a big fan of front wheel drive.

Would like either rear or all wheel drive.

They're up in Minnesota, so fun cars get stored

to avoid the salt, and the car must be an automatic.

Rear or all wheel drive, automatic.

I'm looking for getting all of them in this car.

I want them to all have something fun.

I mean, they can in the 911, they can.

But this is, yeah, this is going to be the mom car,

the do errands and stuff in mom car.

We're going to want a back seat, we can put a car seat in.

I see where we're getting there, yeah.

I like your list of cars that you owned.

He's had an SVT contour, a Golf,

Joel's owned a V70 T5 manual Volvo, 2014 Focus,

couple of the BMWs, this 996,

and his wife has had a Cavalier, a 90s Blazer,

Dodge Durango from 2005.

She's got that current 04 BMW Z4 and the Touric,

so that is staying.

Cars on Joel's radar include a Mercedes E55, the W211,

or the W212 wagon, Pontiac G8, maybe some Audi's.

He's ready to try something other than BMWs.

He knows he could do a five series, something like that,

but the oil leaks are keeping him away.

But also we're dealing with a budget of $15,000.

So that means we're talking older, higher mileage cars,

and he kind of knows what he's in for for the BMW,

so let's do something else.

You found that Alpha Giulia for 14 grand

on the last podcast.

That's a contender here.

But I am going to make a case for doubling your budget.

Nobody is, the laughter starts right away.

I'm sorry, I did the laugh.

As much as I should have expected that,

I didn't see it coming.

The laughter, I knew, everybody's laughing.

I stayed in budget, I did, I stayed in budget.

It's because it happens more often than not

when I make a suggestion and then people think,

you know, I could actually justify it

because I want it, and then the budget doubles.

I bet you it happens more than you tell us.

So I'm going to make a very strong case

for a Toyota GR86 automatic.

Because you said rear wheel drive, you want it to be fun,

you want it to be something small enough she can drive.

I want you to get the kids in the back seats.

I want all four of you to go places.

The problem is these are not $15,000.

They're $27,000 to $30,000.

Can you, you can get low 20s used at this point.

You can get low 20s and automatics are actually less,

manuals are in higher demand,

but I'm thinking automatic GR86, everyone can drive it.

And I kind of feel like, you know, you want it.

Right now you're thinking, huh, $15,000 does seem

a little low, we should bump that up.

Those are, those numbers are too low.

Honey, we could spend 15, but what if we spent 30?

I do like this.

This is family budgeting right here, I love it.

Well, here's my thinking.

To keep it rear wheel drive, you'll need to consider

a Nissan Z or a GR Super from Toyota.

Which are double that, they're even more.

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they don't have back seats.

So you cannot take the family.

And they don't get more fun.

Yeah, we've debated that a lot, but I agree with you.

This is still fun.

And now that we're talking 25,000, 27,000.

So now that here's a fun car that all of you guys

can ride in that is small enough for your wife to drive,

shove the seat all the way forward.

It's not a BMW, it's different than anything in your fleet.

I haven't seen any Toyotas, very few Japanese cars

in your fleet here.

That's a good point.

There's none.

There's no Japanese cars.

That's a great point, interesting, yeah, okay.

And everything you're looking at,

you said you can do wrenching.

You're looking at higher mileage, older German cars

with the exception of the Pontiac G8.

You said you could try BMWs because I would think like,

oh, BMW 2 series.

Wait, you've got a 328i already

and that's gonna drive pretty similarly.

So why not step away from the older cars too?

Plus this justifies, this thing's just gonna run.

You don't have to do anything to this.

Just change the oil and you're good.

I think that justifies bumping your budget up.

I'm trying to make a case for,

you have an owned Japanese car, it's rear wheel drive,

lots of fun, it's undeniable.

I bet you would gravitate towards this

more than anything else in your fleet.

And I include the 996-911 in that.

Ooh, wow.

I mean, it's fun.

Those are fighting words.

Fighting words.

I like it, hey.

This is light and fun and it's,

oh, you're just gonna think,

why don't we just take the GR-86 again?

Fight with the car seat in a different way in the GR-86.

You will fight, that's, I guess, the drawback.

It's down low, but you know, trade-offs.

You would fight within the 996

and she's got the Touareg already.

I know, I hear you.

And the Fiero.

Buddy, look, I'm gonna defend your play

on the GR-86 at any time,

because I love these things.

The Fiero is sort of like the early Caymans.

It's the mid-engine.

It's already, I hear you.

It's already that configuration,

so I can't recommend a Cayman

because he's already got that configuration.

He's already got the Fiero that he loves.

You should keep it.

This is different.

It's just different and get the automatic

so everyone can drive it.

You'll wanna keep this long-term.

Put the road miles on it.

It is comfortable enough.

It's, I mean, take the 911 for the long road trips,

but this is the medium road trip.

It's just different.

But if you just cannot spend the money,

I still stayed within budget.

The big problem is it's front-wheel drive,

but the fun is still just as high as the GR-86.

It is the R53 Mini.

You could get this with the automatic.

I don't really want you to.

I want you to get the manual,

but still get this with the automatic.

Lots of fun.

And Minis just strike me as,

oh, you want a fun, small sports car?

Get a Mini. Done.

So R53, those are five to eight grand.

Automatics are probably less than that.

It's crazy.

So you've spent now a third.

So I'm not staying on budget.

Over and under.

It's either double or a third of your budget

for five grand for a minute and just,

because you've got these other cars,

so this one wouldn't be driven all the time,

but I think it would because it's so much fun.

I like it.

Joel, you said 15K.

I set my cap at auto tempest at 20.

Because I, because, because literally,

because once you start shopping,

you're gonna be like, okay,

I wanted to spend 15 and that one is 16 or 17,

and you're probably gonna make that level of exception.

I came up with some really great stuff here.

I see where you're going.

The automatics are cheap.

I do want to say that I think the Pontiac G8 is out

because I think that car, as good as it is,

is going to feel old to you.

All right?

So I'm gonna jump in with where you started,

and that is talking about Mercedes products.

I found you, talking about two E-classes,

which you listed.

I found you this one,

2016 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Formatic.

2016 for 15,400.

So I'm right around your budget.

This is one of the E-classes you were talking about.

It is 92,000 miles, that is the problem,

because if you want to get into this kind of budget

with these kind of four-door interesting cars,

you are gonna be high miles.

But that is a 2016.

I wanted to show that this is what you're actually

putting in your email, is this E-class.

Another one is a 2017.

This one is just under 20,000 with 85,000 miles.

This is a slightly different version than the 2016.

But it is also an E-class.

So I wanted to show the representation

of what you've put out there.

And now, using my $20,000 capper

and trying to get as close to 15 as I can,

look what also is possible.

I'm thinking about using these as reference.

Four-door sedans that your wife can drive,

that she can open up a back seat and put a car seat in.

She can, she can plug it in, okay?

Did you know, by the way, seriously,

did you know that your local fire station

as a free service will properly install your car seat?

You did tell me this a while back when you, it was,

if you can't figure out how to do it.

When Bodie was six months old, you were like, yeah.

If you can't figure out how to do it,

this is publicly known.

You can go to your local fire station.

I've also heard there's a side note here.

There are some moms who are quite capable,

their husband's quite capable.

They just like to have it excuse to go

out of the fire station.

I can't figure out my car seat.

That's been known to happen as well.

Anyway, sorry.

So I'm thinking about four-door interesting car

that can be somewhat interesting to drive

that is less than $20,000.

Well, guess what?

You mentioned it, but I'm talking about it.

The 2019 Kia Stinger GT2, I'm looking at one right now.

Kia Stinger GT2 $17,000 for 77,000 miles

this one's close to us here in Utah.

These are that cheap?

Not often.

Well, here's the thing.

There's lots of Kia Stingers for your budget and under.

However, not a lot of GT2s.

There's some GT line like crazy, which is not as good,

but the GT1, GT2, these are the better,

more performance models.

This is one of many examples I found

on autotempus.com slash everyday.

This is again $17,000 for just under 78,000 miles.

See, it's happening again.

I've always wanted a Stinger

because I just found out they were that low.

This is a great car that you would enjoy driving, Joel,

and has plenty of space, good hatchback,

nice back seats, so that exists.

Also in your budget and even below,

Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti, I'm showing one on screen right now

for less than $13,000.

So you did better than last podcast

where you found one for 14.

They're dropping this weekly, everyone.

This one is 100,000 miles, which is why it's that cheap.

I brought this one out as the exception

because this is the bottom of the market right now.

100,000 miles, $13,000 and you have an Alfa Giulia.

I'm sorry, but for any of you,

any of you right now that are going,

I would never buy a used Alfa Romeo Giulia.

For $13,000, you wouldn't try it?

You wouldn't try it?

You wouldn't go, let's see if this actually blows up.

Come on, $13,000.

2017, you know, that wasn't too much more

than the Maserati that I bought,

so maybe you could give me some.

I'm telling you, this is exactly one of those cars.

I'm like, look what I bought.

I bought the cheapest Alfa Romeo Giulia out there,

but there's a lot of them.

For under 20, there's tons.

For under 15, there's still a lot.

Alfa Giulias are out there.

This has the chassis dynamics that you're wanting, Joel.

You don't even know that you want it,

but I promise you, the steering rack is super quick.

You don't even know.

The chassis dynamics are wonderful.

All of these are great.

I can't believe they're that cheap, but they are.

And then I have one more for you, Joel,

that I'm actually pretty pleased about.

We talked about the Stinger.

I can't ignore this one.

The A7 Audi.

I'm showing a three liter, a premium plus right now,

90,000 miles for just over $16,000.

2015, a little bit older than the Alfa,

but 2015 A7, no one.

Not that this is why you're buying it,

but just follow me for a second.

If you buy this car for your wife, Joel,

and she goes anywhere,

no one's gonna think you spent 15 grand on this car.

That's the beauty.

Everybody's gonna be like.

That's amazing.

Wow, that's a really nice car.

No, it's 15,000 dollars.

16, two is this one listed right here,

and it's not alone.

Pick your engine options, pick your colors.

Sadly, they're Audi A7,

so most of them are some sort of shade of gray.

But anyway, I happen to be showing a white one.

Occasionally, you find within an interesting color,

but the thing about this is the interiors are good.

The hatch is wonderful in size.

They drive pretty well.

This looks like a luxury car.

It's not a BMW, it's not a Mercedes.

It's a new experience for you.

Audi A7 for 16, two, Joel.

And I'm stopping there.

It'd probably take 15, five.

Oh, they totally would.

Maybe 15.

They totally would, yep, yep.

Then you're rocking an Audi.

And you end up with a cool four-door with a hatch.

Kia Stinger and A7 are my favorites for you,

but Julia for 13 grand.

The Stinger is warping my brain.

That is for 17 grand.

A part of me wonders if at some point

there's going to be torches and pitchforks

and people are going to require me to buy a Julia.

And at 13 grand, it gets pretty tempting.

I've talked about that car too much.

I admit it, but I love driving them in all forms.

They're good.

Joel, thank you for writing.

I love all the horse trading.

I love the car stuff that we're doing.

I love all the ideas.

You've got some great thoughts here.

Please let us know what you get right to us

at Car Conclusion.

Send the photos and also to you

if you've got a debate, a topic Tuesday,

Car Conclusions, everydaydriverTV at gmail.com.

The third car debate for today

comes from Jonathan E. in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

He is looking for a used manual to teach his daughter.

Before we start, Jonathan, I would just like to say

that sobs are cheap.

Manual, I just want to get this out there.

I'm going to get it off my chest.

We both have the brands.

We were almost required to talk about it.

Somehow that became sob for you.

This is your family's contribution to the podcast

is now you are almost contractually required

to talk about sob.

No, just to talk about it.

I just have to talk about it.

You just have to carry the torch for sob inexplicably.

The reason, Jonathan, is because my brother-in-law Daniel,

his initial thinking was I want to teach the kids

how to drive a manual transmission.

There was a lady selling a $1,500 sob 900 turbo convertible.

It eventually blew up.

That was sob number one.

That was his entry-level drug, though.

That was it.

The first was almost free.

Shifter was like stirring a pot of chili.

You couldn't tell what gear you were in.

But nevertheless, it ran.

It had 203,000 miles.

I will never forget.

Sorry, I have to tell this story.

I'll never forget your description.

When you first came back from going there

when they bought that car and driving that car.

And because the shifter just moved in a circle while in neutral,

there were no detents at all that you

had to explain to your niece and nephew,

no other manual is like this.

This is not how manuals are.

See, Ferrari-gated manual.

This bowl of soup feel is not what's

supposed to happen in neutral.

It's like stirring stew.

Anyway.

What am I all that favorite story?

I love that.

Because Daniel's heart was in the right place.

I'm going to teach my kids to drive manual.

You got it and we're like, hate to tell you this.

None of them are like this.

No, no, no, no.

Anyway, awkward.

But that's where he started and it was just cheap.

So whatever car you choose to teach your daughter

manual transmission, that might be the car that

sends you off the cliff into these of the best cars

ever, whatever that is.

I love it.

It's good.

That could happen.

I just wanted to get it off my chest.

Because his daughter is about to get her permit,

he wants her to learn to drive in a manual transmission car.

And he doesn't own any manual car because of spousal

insistence that his wife can drive the car too.

After his daughter is licensed, Jonathan would like to daily

the car.

Now that's the twist I didn't see.

I didn't see that coming either.

Because I was like, I want her to learn on a manual

and then she's going to drive that car as a manual.

This is just a teaching tool.

Right.

As soon as she's licensed, he wants it to be his car.

Right.

Weird.

All right.

He has a 55 mile one way commute in Dallas, Fort Worth

area, mostly highway with his only drive home dealing

with traffic.

So despite all that, yes, you've heard correctly.

It's a manual transmission car used as a teaching aid

that Jonathan will then drive for a commute.

That will stick around.

In a manual transmission car on the freeway,

55 miles commute.

Luckily, there's not constant traffic.

I don't get the sense that your commute is stop and go.

So that's decent.

But I did not expect this car to have a longer life

than just initial car, but it does.

Jonathan's wife and son do get car sick.

It would be nice if this could be avoided.

I love that sentence.

Because all these twists and turns.

Anybody that's ever gotten car sick feels that.

I would just be nice if this could be avoided.

It has nothing to do with the car, by the way.

Let's not have any more car sickness, can we?

May I just stop right here, Jonathan, and address this.

And that is eyesight.

Do they look at their phones while they're in the car?

Are they looking down?

Are they reading?

Looking at their phones?

I look at their phones and not paying attention.

Their eyes are not up.

Usually, car sickness has to do with where your eyes are.

That's not always the case.

It's also the motions, manual transmission cars.

If you're not smooth with the clutch and the gas,

it throws the occupants around.

They're glaring at you.

You're going, what?

I'm having fun.

That can be a factor.

But usually, it's where your eyes are at,

especially if you're going through corners.

If they're not tracking through corners on a track,

the car did something I wasn't expecting it to do.

And it's probably because they're not paying attention.

They're not with you as you're driving.

Now, the problem is that's hard to do.

Absolutely, yes.

OK, where we go on.

And on the freeway, you're just looking at my phone.

I mean, you've already talked about it.

It's that combination of sudden movement

you aren't expecting.

And if you're looking down, you're really not expecting it.

And that's what gets me.

If it's a sudden move, I'm not expecting it.

And that throws me.

I experience the same problem.

So I do get it.

Jonathan's car history includes, in 1995, neon base

automatic, a Chrysler Fifth Avenue from 87,

another neon from 1998, the Sport Auto this time.

By the way, in my search, I came across a neon.

I was like, they really are here.

Anyway, moving on.

Jonathan, that too.

A 93 Toyota pickup manual and then an 03 Durango SXT.

No car sickness.

Good news.

That was in marriage.

Yeah, it was the first one that no car sickness.

I like it's either yes or no car sickness.

He tells us all of every one.

03 Grand Marquis, an 06 PT Cruiser automatic.

Which does not have a no car sickness badge.

So apparently the PT Cruiser automatic did not work.

Kia Sedona, which was approved, no car sickness,

a 2018 Mirage G4 CVT, and a current car, which is a 2013 Volt.

Interesting.

OK.

Jonathan has worked as a valet.

He liked Hondas and Volkswagen and Audi manuals.

Plus, he's practiced double clutching in a Volvo C30,

which he loved when he was getting his commercial driver's license.

The budget he's working with is under $5,000.

Yep.

So of all the cars that you've thought of,

while we're going through this entire email, you thought,

oh, there's plenty of cars that could fit this.

5 grand makes this harder.

Now it gets very difficult.

But I do think I have choices for you that will be excellent.

Well, the first choice, you're going to have to bump up your budget.

Just a touch.

Just up.

Understood.

Yeah.

A little bit.

And I think it will be a desirable car that you want.

It'll last a long time.

Plus, it's a Honda.

It's a CR-Z.

By the way, I went looking for CR-X's.

I found 186 CR-X for sale.

One.

OK.

They've either all been crushed and destroyed and they don't last.

Or people are clinging to them.

Exactly right, which I think is the case.

Now, with CR-Z's, there are a lot available.

They're great, all-varying mileage.

Ignore the mileage.

Get a nice one.

But the problem is the really nice ones are like $12,000.

So if you could stick to six or eight,

sub-5,000, it's going to be tougher to find one of these.

Moving on to the next choice, which is a Fiat 500 Abarth.

I want you to enjoy driving.

I want there to be some fun and engagement as you're driving.

The shifter should not feel like soup.

It should feel like detents.

What happened here?

It's like a milkshake.

It's really bizarre.

No, the Fiat 500.

Again, these are a little bit more than the sub-$5,000 budget

that you're looking for.

Mileage is probably irrelevant with these.

But again, lots of fun, cool commuter, great sounds.

You can slice through traffic and either of these too.

But if we really, if the budget, we have to respect it.

I did my best here.

The Mazda 3 Touring from 2013.

You'll notice it's $4,000.

The one that I found has 728,000 miles on it.

Just now seeing that, that can't be real.

Okay, so wait, hang on.

It's real.

No, it's real.

How is it $3,000 worth?

I'm sure that I don't know.

How are they not giving that away?

I don't know.

This is a $4,000 2013 Mazda.

No, no, no.

If you had any question marks, I'm not saying by this one.

But if you had a question about mileage,

is it going to last 728,000 miles, here it is for sale for $4,000.

I would not buy this car.

And what's crazy is it looks pretty clean.

It looks great, which means it was never turned off.

Somebody was just, somebody just high mile commute,

took care of it.

Pharmaceutical deliveries, pizza, not even pizza deliveries.

Three quarters.

No, this is like pharmaceutical delivery.

I'm a traveling salesman.

Three quarters of a million miles on a 2013,

and they still want $4,000.

I feel like there's a lot of honesty going on here.

There's a lot of honesty.

Yeah, I can't believe this.

728,000 miles for $4,000.

Take it or leave it.

You know what it is.

There should be no descriptions.

Just sort of like, yes, you know.

Yes, come get it if you want it.

We're done.

I had to go find the photo of the odometer to make sure

it wasn't a typo on the ad.

And they did show the odometer 728,471 miles.

Is the driver's seat ashes?

It's just.

The other three seats are fine.

The driver's seat is just, it's like ashes in the sack cloth.

There's just nothing else there.

Nothing there.

Here it is.

So Mazda touring, you can look from 2013 to 2018.

That is your range for the Mazda 3.

You can get a manual.

They're going to run a long time.

You change the oil.

I don't think you'll ever hit this kind of mileage,

but if you do, you can sell it for $4,000.

So good news, everyone.

Wow, I'm just astonished.

Good job on that.

You did really, really well.

It's like, oh, this is right in the budget.

Wait a minute.

I am astonished by this.

All right.

Wow, I just, I'm going to leave that up until I very ready

to change that photo.

That is so impressive.

There we go.

Wow.

Okay.

Honesty.

Jonathan, look, I'm going to tell you a couple of things

that I thought about going in on this.

First off, because you're keeping this car past your daughter

actually learning past its prime,

that makes me wonder if you should be spending more.

I'm going to respect your $5,000, but I'm just wondering,

if this was one of those cars, kind of like your,

your brother in law Daniel did,

where you were just buying it for her to learn

and it doesn't matter, then I see the $5,000.

We could go under the $5,000.

I get it.

But you're wanting to turn this into a daily commute car

when she's done with it.

And also she's about to get her permit,

which means she's a year away from license.

So it needs to last a year.

And then it needs to last for at least a little while past that,

as you use it as a commuter.

That makes me wonder if the budget should be higher

because of the long-term nature of this car.

Having said that, I would love it if the budget is higher.

I'm keeping your $5,000 or very close thing.

I'm keeping that in play.

The other thing I did is,

when I looked on Auto Tempest for you,

I put in Dallas DFW zip codes and I went within a 100 mile range

because the other thing I thought about,

the thing that we normally do is we'll

find these cars for great deals.

But you're going to fly there and drive home.

You're not doing that for the $5,000.

The cost of your car.

You're just not doing it.

So it's going to be something that needs to be close.

So I stayed in the Dallas, Fort Worth area

and I found some interesting things.

And no one, no one listening or watching

is going to be surprised by the first car I'm going to show.

But I just, I can't not show it on our 53 Mini.

Here it is, a 2004 Mini Cooper two-door hardtop.

Looks pretty clean.

It has 118,000 miles and they want $3,200.

$3,800, that's nothing.

This is in Garland.

This is in the Dallas, Fort Worth area.

Okay. $3,200, $3,250.

These are fantastic.

I can attest these are fantastic cars

to drive as manual transmissions.

I think your daughter would love

actually learning to drive in this.

I think you would love driving it after the fact.

This is not the supercharged version,

which means you don't have

the supercharger leak complication here.

That does mean it has less power.

But for your usage, who cares?

$3,200, a 2004 Mini Cooper right in the Dallas area.

I have to start there because, of course,

it's a Mini, so I have to talk about it.

It's not alone.

How about a 2015 Fiat 500 Sport?

This is not the Abarth.

This is the Sport.

So it doesn't have the fun engine,

but manual transmission.

All allowed.

Right at 4999.

I sound like I'm selling used cars here.

100 sling and hash.

We are.

122,000 miles on this Fiat 500.

Right at $5,000.

But it's a Sport.

Okay.

It's a Sport.

It'd probably still be fun to drive.

I think the Mini would be more fun,

but this is still a really great option.

Like it.

Thinking about something a little more long-term,

and you know is going to run, a Honda Fit LX.

Your daughter's not going to be excited about this car,

but this little hatchback is going to run forever.

These have really good manual transmissions in them.

This one is 149,000 miles,

which means it's not even half of its life gone yet.

This is going to run forever.

It's merely broken in.

2015 Honda Fit LX.

It's a black one, four-door hatchback.

Tons of space in these good manual transmissions.

This one is listed at just right at $6,000.

You could talk them down on this.

And this is utility cars going to run forever.

If you are really thinking about,

I need to end up commuting in this long-term,

Honda Fit.

Those are great choices.

Because you just proved how long the Mazda 3 can go.

How about this one that's barely gotten started?

How about this 2014 Mazda 3?

$6,000.

This one only has 162,000 miles on it.

People aren't even trying.

It's practically brand new.

This one's in Garland as well.

This is a 2014 Mazda 3 iSport.

Same, I think it's a year newer than the one you showed.

With a fraction of the miles, 162,000 miles.

I will admit.

Thank you, Paul, because I will put this in here.

I was like, 162,000.

Is that high miles?

No, it's not.

You brought a totally different thing.

So I feel very confident in this choice.

2014 Mazda 3 for $6,000.

And then I have a wild card.

Oh, good.

A wild card because as I was looking in your area,

Jonathan, I just found something and I was like,

you know, maybe it's I wouldn't.

Please don't tell me it's a sob.

No, I would have never recommended it

because the reputation is not good.

But for what you're buying and the risk you're taking,

why not wild card with me?

Audi TT Quattro convertible.

It's in green.

It's a 2001.

It's a Quattro convertible.

It is in Kirby, Texas, a little bit away from you,

but Kirby, Texas, $5,600 for 87,000.

Paul's thinking of buying this car right now.

I can see it in his face.

I've always wanted one of these.

This is a manual transmission with the baseball stitching.

It has the baseball stitching.

Yes, manual transmission 2001 green Audi TT Quattro convertible

for $5,600.

This is a wild card because these were not known to be reliable.

But for $5,600, you kind of want to take the risk.

Buy it for the green paint alone.

It's not black or silver.

All of these were black or silver.

This is clean.

Buy it for the paint.

I have to admit, when I bumped into this,

I was like, wait a minute right now.

87,000 miles, which is not a whole lot of miles.

2001 TT convertible in manual tenting.

Then his daughter's going to want to keep it.

And then we're going to have another debate for John

to get his commuter car.

But I couldn't resist this as a wild card.

It's not a I really think you should run out,

but the part of me is like one of us needs to.

Somebody's got to go out and get this.

Are you kidding?

That is great.

Yeah, I couldn't believe it.

Well, that brings me right back to our Z3 and Z4.

A Z4 is perfectly fine.

A Z3 is perfect for this.

Learn manual.

It'll it's a BMW.

It'll drive great.

And the Z4 you had would just always start.

It would just run.

That car got beat on and was always like, where are we going?

And you could commute in it convertible.

Z4 has got to be on our list.

The problem is they're not $5,000,

but if you're going to spend a little bit more,

that's throw out all my suggestions.

Go get a Z4.

Just throw them all out.

The TT is completely changed your mind, hasn't it?

That is funny.

That has warped my thinking.

Get the TT, get the Z4.

I'm telling you at 87,000 miles.

I agree.

It's tempting, isn't it?

Barely driven.

I know it is.

One of those cars is like, does the show need?

No, it doesn't.

Anyway, moving on.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay, Jonathan.

Happy hunting.

Let us know what you get.

A few questions from you guys.

Thanks as always for responding on our questions

when we post things.

I'm going to try.

I'm going to try to be better.

I've been very bad.

Been trying to try to be better about actually posting

interesting clips from our reviews to Instagram.

I haven't done a good job of that.

We do have shorts that are happening on YouTube.

I both love and loathe shorts.

People are watching you in.

My family gets lost for hours in them.

Have you seen this one?

I'm like, really?

Are we doing this?

So anyway.

And then you're instantly like, no, I've got one better.

Oh, no, stop.

But at the same time, they are a tool that people find our

content from shorts and reels and that kind of content.

So I need to be better about it.

We just posted one and you guys responded with some questions.

So thank you.

Bruce B had a great question.

I'm thrilled you asked this because I want to unpack this a bit.

He said, I've talked many times recently about how there's no

second buyer for these used EVs coming off lease.

And that's why they have huge discounts, which is true.

And it's happening and many of you are finding them that way.

But he says, hang on.

If people buy these massively depreciated EVs,

when they sell them, who's the third buyer?

And Bruce, the short answer is nobody.

But the long air, let me go with long answer.

Here's how I think the trajectory of these cars are.

This is a used EV.

You bought a new EV for 60 grand plus and now two, three years

in there, like 25.

I mean, it's terrifying.

It's amazing how far they've dropped.

You saved money getting it and then you'll lose money again.

So yes, who's the third buyer?

This is exactly like, I think it's exactly like the buyer

for the super high end luxury sedans, the executive high end sedans,

the A8, the seven series, the Mercedes S class,

especially in the UK.

Those drop like, true.

But that has to do a little bit with the way they do your registration.

But even here, I mean, I bought a $5,000 Volkswagen Faten.

That was 80 grand new.

Okay, it was $5,000.

What happens is those cars typically are bought new by somebody

that is leasing them or has a stipend in their executive salary

and they're going to get a new one every two, three years.

Okay, they have the instant perception because of what they are

that the technology is going to move on

and there's going to be nobody to service this and it's not going to run.

See how much this headspace is similar to EVs?

Think about this.

And then they sell it in two or three years

because they're just going to get a new one.

And nobody in general is looking for a two year old executive sedan.

We talk them up because you can't believe how cheap they are comparatively.

They're often lost half their value, which is crazy.

But are you going to buy a 60 or $70,000 executive sedan that was 150?

Maybe.

But people instantly think, yeah, but it's going to be really expensive

to maintain and it might be.

But then somebody does and down the line, somebody it's like us buy it for a pittance.

So this is the reality that you can get a great depreciated EV right now.

What I want people to do is to buy them cheap and plan to keep it for 10 years

as the runabout short distance commuter.

It's, I hate to say it this way, but it's the best way to describe it.

It's your golf cart for close by stuff.

Or your computer because you sit in traffic.

An EV is going to be fine.

And yes, it's going to keep plummeting while you own it.

I think it's going to drop not quite as fast as it did for that first owner,

but it is going to keep dropping.

We also always say this, never buy a car for your plans to sell it.

Buy a car for how it is good for your budget and your life.

It sells for what it sells for.

Cars are depreciating.

I don't care what car you're buying.

The rare exception is the car that actually goes up.

You cannot buy for resale value, but you're right.

The second owner is getting a deal.

The third owner is getting a deal again.

I can't wait for the third owner, the third owner of, I don't know what it is, but yeah,

those will be cheap.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The SSTs have bounced.

They've gone up a little bit.

Honda CRZs have gone up a little bit.

The reality is the EVs, it's the phone effect.

The technology is only going one way.

And so I don't see any reason that a used EV is ever going to bounce.

I think they're just going to slide into nothingness.

A few years ago, we looked up the cheapest Tesla Model S you could find.

And I think it was 118,000 miles for like 15 or $17,000.

It's unbelievable how cheap the old ones are.

What are the 2013 Model Ss now?

I haven't even looked.

Yeah, I haven't either.

Yeah, it's crazy.

I've always wanted one of those.

See, as soon as you know the price, I can't get that quarter out of my head.

But also, I can't get the Audi e-tron GT out of my head either.

I know.

From a few podcasts ago.

Here's the thing.

The, I think the Taycan, I think percentage wise,

the Taycans have lost even more value,

but the Taycans are still more expensive than the e-trons.

The e-trons are cheap.

But now, like $30,000 e-tron.

It's crazy.

Okay.

For third owner e-tron GTs, that's what we're waiting for.

We're all waiting for the $17,000, $18,000.

They're going to bounce 10 years from now.

People are going, what happened there?

Daniel Ann on Facebook has a pipe dream of a manual Alpha Julia Quadrifoglio.

He didn't know they existed, but the European market made them.

Yes, they did.

With that same car being sold here, but as an automatic only,

is there any shred of hope being able to legally import one?

Or is he doomed to lust from afar for 20-something years?

I'd say doomed first, but I had an idea for you, Daniel.

Could you find a wrecked one in Europe and ship the transmission over and install it here?

That's interesting.

Is that a thing?

That's interesting.

You buy one here, it would be a legal car here, because now it's a build.

I bought car parts.

Now it's a build.

You're shipping car parts.

Yeah.

No, no, no, that's interesting.

Does anybody do that?

Well, it makes sense that you could.

I've never heard of a shop doing that, but could you find a damaged one?

I mean, your costs go up exponentially because now you're buying a car,

salvage, or something that you're leaving the husk in Europe

and you're wanting to ship the transmission over.

I think it could be done, but the costs are maybe not worth it.

It's like a European pick apart idea.

You need that from a pick apart lot.

I don't even know if they have those, because there's a lot more regulations on that stuff.

But you're making also, but following your train of thought,

if you're a person servicing a manual transmission alpha in Europe,

you have to be able to buy a new transmission to put a new transmission into a broken alpha with

a manual. So couldn't you theoretically buy new from alpha the transmission and ship it over here

and go to a shop that does build?

I love your thinking and have them put the actual manual in the thing.

And you've got it and you've rebuilt it with car parts and it just happens.

And then of course, there's the flip side.

If we're building now that we just put an LS in it,

but part of the great thing is the quadrifoglio motor, which is awesome.

Yeah.

I mean, otherwise you're waiting years and years,

and then there's going to be other cars you're going to want,

and then you'll never get around to it.

And then you've, yeah, I don't, they're not worth waiting to import them in 20 years.

That's not worth it.

Man, it just made me think about all those Volkswagen diesels sitting out in the Mojave Desert.

That's what they did with them.

They parked them way out in the desert and they're just,

you can see it on Google Earth and they're just fields of these old Volkswagen.

So we need to buy those to do a cheap something YouTube.

We bought a $10 car.

30 miles from us.

Is this 2014 used Tesla Model S base for $12,700 on auto tempest right now with 100,000 miles.

They're even cheaper.

That is probably not a very big battery, but that is $12,000 worth of Tesla Model S.

I just had to show it to you because I found it on auto tempest right now as you were talking.

That's 30 miles from us right now.

That's insane. Soon the LS swaps will happen to these.

Oh, for sure.

People have done it, but now we'll do it for fun.

Yeah. Ben Cohen has this question and I want to try to answer it quickly.

And that is he says he's coming out of hot hatches and sports sedans.

He's looking to buy an SUV in the Mazda lineup.

What would be better to drive the CX-5 or the CX-50?

And I have a direct answer for you, Ben.

I actually prefer personally the look of the CX-50.

The longer I see them side by side, I prefer the look of the CX-50.

I like the stance.

I like the way it looks and drives and all that kind of stuff.

However, the CX-50 has the torsion beam solid rear axle rear end and the CX-5 does not.

The CX-5 is independent suspension all the way around.

It will be the better vehicle to drive.

So CX-5 for you, my friend, and I hope that helps.

Guys, thank you for all your questions.

Thank you for all your car debates.

Hopefully we've got you thinking differently.

I can't get e-tron GTs and cheap Audi TTs out of my head.

Apparently cheap Audi's are our future.

That's terrifying, yeah.

Oh, man.

Corralling The Herd, Too Cheap To Ignore, Teach The Kids Manual | Episode 1,041

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