Dealer Debates: The Dealership Model Is Broken

Dealer Debates: The Dealership Model Is Broken The Price Isn’t Right: Car Negotiations w/ Delivrd · Jun 30, 2026

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Term

PDI inspection

A final checklist inspection that a mechanic does on a brand-new car right after it arrives from the factory to make sure everything works and it's safe to drive.

Brand

Lincoln

Ford's luxury brand that makes high-end SUVs like the Navigator and Aviator.

Brand

Tesla

The famous electric car company run by Elon Musk that sells cars directly to buyers online instead of using traditional dealerships.

Concept

franchise laws

Rules made by state governments that force car makers (like Ford or Toyota) to sell their cars through local dealerships instead of selling them directly to you online.

Company

Group 1 Automotive

One of the largest corporate groups in the US that owns and runs hundreds of local car dealerships across different brands.

Term

invoice price

The price the dealership theoretically paid the manufacturer for the car before any extra discounts or bonuses are factored in.

Car

Toyota RAV4

A very popular compact SUV made by Toyota that is known for being reliable, spacious, and fuel-efficient.

Brand

Rivian

A newer electric car company that makes rugged electric pickup trucks and SUVs designed for outdoor adventures.

Term

rate markup

When a dealership gets you approved for a loan at a low interest rate, but tells you the rate is higher so they can pocket the difference as extra profit.

Term

finance manager

The person at the dealership who handles your loan paperwork and tries to sell you extra things like extended warranties before you sign the final papers.

Concept

window etching

A security feature where the car's serial number is carved into the windows to make it harder for thieves to sell. Dealerships often charge a lot of money for this, even though it's very cheap to do.

Term

flat rate

A system where mechanics are paid based on how long a job is supposed to take according to a manual, rather than the actual hours they spend working. If they work fast, they can make more money.

Term

book time

The official estimated time it should take to fix a specific part of a car, which dealerships use to calculate how much to charge you for labor.

Term

warranty work

Repairs done to fix a broken part on a car that are paid for by the car manufacturer because the car is still under its original quality guarantee.

Car

Jeep Grand Cherokee

A popular mid-size SUV made by Jeep that is designed to be comfortable for daily driving while still being able to go off-road.

Term

PVR

A term dealerships use to measure how much average profit they make on every single car they sell, including the loan and warranty sales.

Person

Doug from Benz and Bowtie

A popular internet personality and car expert who makes videos explaining how dealerships work behind the scenes to help buyers get better deals.

Car

Honda Civic Si

A sporty, fun-to-drive version of the standard Honda Civic that comes with a manual transmission and a more powerful engine.

Car

Honda Civic Type R

The fastest, most extreme version of the Honda Civic, built for high-speed track driving but still legal to drive on public roads.

Car

Lexus GX 550

A large, luxury SUV made by Lexus that is famous for its boxy look and its ability to climb over tough off-road trails.

Company

AutoNation

The biggest chain of car dealerships in America, owning hundreds of stores that sell many different brands of cars.

Car

Dodge Challenger SRT Demon

An incredibly powerful, limited-edition muscle car made by Dodge that was built specifically to go as fast as possible in straight-line drag races.

Term

vehicle service contract

A paid plan (often called an extended warranty) that covers the cost of fixing your car if it breaks down after the original factory warranty has run out.

Car

The Honda CR-V is a medium-sized family vehicle made by the Japanese company Honda. It is designed to be easy to drive, spacious on the inside, and dependable for everyday tasks like commuting and running errands. It is one of the most common SUVs on the road because of its reputation for lasting a long time.

Brand

Genesis

Hyundai's luxury car brand, similar to how Lexus is to Toyota, known for making stylish and high-tech luxury vehicles.

Car

Hyundai Genesis

The Hyundai Genesis was a large, comfortable luxury sedan made by the South Korean manufacturer Hyundai. It was built to offer upscale features, like leather seats and a smooth ride, without the high price tag of older luxury brands. Hyundai eventually turned the 'Genesis' name into its own separate luxury car company.

Term

triple net

A car buying term for getting a price that is even lower than the official factory invoice price, by stripping away all the hidden bonuses and discounts the dealer gets from the manufacturer.

LIVE

Today, the day to day, I want to give salespeople a voice.

If you believe that they should make no profit, why would anyone own one nominal profit?

I never said that they shouldn't make a profit.

Again, if that's the point that I want to debate, I said dealerships are not entitled to a profit.

I'm giving you guys all the things you guys can argue on.

So the whole point of today's stream, guys, is you just need to verify you work at a dealership,

right? Because I want people from the car sales and I want people that are opposite of me.

People that don't like me, people that don't agree with me, people that say that I'm wrong.

I want you to come in and have that conversation, right?

I want you to be able to say that in front of my entire audience.

You get to talk to all of them.

I believe delivered makes car buying more enjoyable.

I believe we are net positive to the consumer.

I said I believe that dealerships actually in the current state should sell cars at loss

because they're considered loss leaders anyway.

And there's more advantage dealerships make more profit when they sell a car at loss than they do at a high gross area.

Okay, I got my first caller.

I'm going to call them.

This is Bailey car salesman.

I'm not going to tell you guys where this person lives, where they're at, who they are.

We're going to call them though.

So yellow.

Hello.

How's it going?

I'm good.

How are you?

Man, I'm doing well.

Is this Bailey?

Yes, this is Bailey.

Man, thank you so much for having the courage to be the first person on here.

So I don't know if you've seen this series that I do,

but basically I give people an opportunity that disagree with anything I say or everything

that I say, an opportunity to speak their mind for me to just have an honest conversation.

This is meant to be yelling mean.

There's no, you can take your gloves off if you want.

No aggression.

We're not fighting.

I got, I got you.

Okay.

I mean, we can fight.

I mean, if you, if you're like, hey, Tommy, you're an idiot and this is why I'm all for

hearing it, you're allowed to say you just can't say anything profanity.

No, no, absolutely.

I've been watching your channel for a while now and I've been selling cars for almost 10 years.

So I agree with some of what you say and some of it I don't agree with.

Okay.

Which part do you want to talk about and have the conversation on?

I would just say that dealerships don't deserve a profit to an extent.

I agree with that.

I mean, obviously, if you're a new consumer, you're going to pick up a car.

You want somebody to go over that car with you.

You want the car to be in perfect condition, spotless.

You don't want any stains or scratches or anything like that.

And we all know transporting vehicles, that does happen.

So, I mean, when it comes to all that stuff, we obviously have mechanics that we have to

pay to go through the car, take all the stuff off from, do their PDI inspection and all that stuff.

Detail the car.

Sometimes we have to go like, for instance, today I had to drive to Wesley Chapel to pick

up a vehicle and drive all the way back.

So, I mean, there's many reasons why we should get some profit.

I mean, I'm not saying we need to make $5,000 on every car, but...

Yeah.

So, all the things you mentioned are all part of, are all reimbursed back to the dealership

and the destination fees.

So, we're talking about paying the tech.

That money is reimbursed to the dealership.

They claim that money every month when it comes down to prepping the car, gassing the car.

Everything on a new car is all prepped and taken care of by the destination.

Consumers are paying that already.

Right.

With the MSRP of the car.

But it's coming into the cost of the vehicles.

Again, we're talking about profit.

We're talking about that's built in there.

But my statement is dealerships are not entitled to a profit.

But if you're saying that the reason why they're entitled to a profit is that they clean the car,

organize the car, how much do you think that's worth? $20 an hour?

I mean, that part is a little bit kind of controversial.

I would say it could be anywhere from $20 an hour to $50 an hour.

But I mean, we have, my clientele is older clientele.

I mean, there are times where we're literally going over these cars.

And I don't know, maybe most people don't have 70 to 90 year old customers,

but that's kind of my demographic.

Being at a Lincoln dealership.

It's kind of more, we try to take as much time as we can to go over the car

to make sure they really do understand the vehicle.

Because realistically, you have somebody who's that age and they kind of get on the road

and they try to understand how to use the car.

It doesn't really help them too much.

So I mean, that time, for say me with the offending,

going over a vehicle with that customer, showing them how to operate everything.

I feel like my time would be obviously coming from the dealership profit.

The majority of people buying a car should now pay for the minority of elderly people

buying a car that need help.

They can't just figure that out on their own.

And on top of it, do we not think that like, why can Tesla figure it out?

Tesla can go through the entire car, teach me how to use everything.

They don't have a sales model.

The idea behind entitled just so we, you know, we don't go too off a tangent here.

When I say a dealership is not entitled to a profit,

it doesn't mean that they just because they exist, they deserve a profit.

I am saying that a business has to earn a profit.

Otherwise they shouldn't exist.

And the only reason why the dealership model is still here is franchise laws.

If they do not add value to the consumers,

the things that you're mentioning are really nice.

But I think like, if you put that line item and said,

Hey, for a hundred bucks, I'll teach you how to use the car.

I think a lot of people would just pass on that hundred bucks

and go to TikTok or YouTube to learn compared to people.

Maybe some people would, but I think the vast majority would say no to it.

So like, what kind of value are we putting on it?

Because we're talking about dealerships that, you know,

group one averaged over $4,000 per cardio and profit.

And all you're mentioning is money that's already built into the cardio

that dealerships get reimbursed on

because the manufacturer is actually paying for it

and teaching somebody how to use the buttons on the vehicle.

Exactly what you just said that that profit of destination and delivery

is going to also that we can go over those vehicles

and show people how to use the cars correctly.

Yeah. So, but like the manufacturer pays you like reimbursed,

like literally what happens is the tech and everybody submits the bills.

The dealership submits that to the manufacturer

and the manufacturer reimburses that money through the dealership.

Basically what is happening with all of those things

that are getting the vehicle prepped

is everything is being covered by the manufacturer anyway right now.

And what level of quality does a consumer actually get from a car salesman?

What would be the next thing?

How many people are actually an expert if you look at your own showroom

or any other showroom on their vehicles?

Or how many times can we talk about where people say

that they know vehicles more than salespeople?

And salespeople aren't afraid to know

that we are the most educated public that's ever existed.

But the idea that like, again, what does that profit work?

I would say a hundred bucks.

If that's what you're saying,

the only value to dealerships is teaching us how to use cars,

then like, why not just sell everything for invoice?

If you have a point of contact that you can reach out to,

like I have ten-year relationships with customers

that I've built throughout my years in the industry

based off of how I treat them and the repetitive business of them coming back.

I mean, the profit has to do a lot with relationships that you build with.

So a franchise laws did not exist.

Do you not think somebody that can make a model

that they just knew cars really well

and could teach you how to use a car for a flat fee?

And it was cheaper than paying $4,000 a profit to a dealership?

I mean, yes and no.

Yes and no, like I said.

I mean, we definitely deserve a profit.

We put a lot of work into everything that goes behind the scenes

of selling a car, delivering a car the whole nine yards.

But what is that behind the scenes?

Walk people through the behind the scenes of what is that extra work?

That's all the cars. I've been in the industry.

It's not like this is hidden.

I mean, if you're talking about the tech making sure a car is prepped,

that's not hours of labor.

You're talking about less than an hour of labor for a tech to prep a car.

That's the tech side of things I'm concerned about.

If you sell cars and you 100% know that most consumers don't know what they want,

it takes time to figure out what they want.

It takes time to find them the right car to purchase.

It's not just, hey, here's a car. Buy this car. It takes time.

It takes effort.

I think plenty of consumers do know what they want.

I think the problem that goes in is the sales process.

As an innate ability that we have to follow is 10-step sales process.

And if you don't, you don't have a job.

So like you have to do a new...

So if somebody comes in and says they want a RAV4,

you have to still go through that needs assessment

because who knows if they can afford it?

Who knows if they can do this?

And now you're questioning the consumer on themselves

on a buying decision they can make on their own.

So like I think that maybe that number is inflated

on what you believe, who knows what they want or what they don't know.

On top of it, the dealership model is so confusing

because nobody really knows the real price of a car anyway.

So there's not a level of transparency.

The dealerships are making it mandatory to go to the dealership

to get pricing on a car because I don't even know what a car really cost anymore

because I have to go to you because presence is power.

And then I have to go figure out the numbers.

And I don't do that till the end.

So I have to test drive cars first, make sure I enjoy them.

Then I have to go to pricing.

And I have to trust that I give you all the information first

to verify that you're going to tell me the car is correct

before I go.

It's just this overcome world.

The dealerships are building themselves as a necessity

rather than making it easier to buy a car.

And I think making it easier of buying cars is based on dealerships

because if I mean, if you came to our dealerships,

your experience, depending on what you're looking for, yes.

If you know exactly what you're looking for, no problem.

I'll sit right down with you.

I will go over the numbers.

I'll show you invoice and hopefully you let us make $500 to $1,000 on a deal.

That seems completely understandable.

I'm not saying we need to make $4,000 on every single deal we ever have.

Why are you worth $1,000 to just show me how to use the vehicle

and show me the number?

But it's not just that.

You're not paying me the $1,000.

Just like for your company.

They're paying you $1,000 to just call dealerships

and get the best price possible.

Correct.

But clients know upfront that it's going to cost $1,000 to use me

and they're fine and okay paying that because they build value and add that.

If you go to a dealer, if you go to your consumers for now and say,

hey, here's the option, right?

You can skip the dealership entirely.

You don't have to deal with me and you can go over there

and it's going to be $1,000 cheaper or you can work with my expertise

and everything that I have to offer and it's $1,000 more

are the vast majority of consumers going to pay $1,000 to work.

Or would they go to direct to consumers?

Whatever your customers, people that use that,

whatever a week or two goes by and they have an issue with their car,

are they calling you?

Yeah, 1,000%.

They're calling you and you're taking care of the issue.

Yeah, we're walking them through how to take care of the issue.

We'll help them with the other issue.

You're getting them set up with an appointment.

You're talking about a service that's going to help

because all you're doing now is going to a service

and saying, hey, service, I have a new car sale that I need help.

Do we get them in for an appointment?

Yeah, that's where I disagree.

That's why I'm saying you're building a reputation with somebody

at a specific spot where you know you can call them

and take your car to them and get your issue taken care of.

And how many cars on statistically on average

are even breaking down within the first few weeks of them owning it?

It happens, just like any manufacturer, it happens.

Sure, but we're talking about a small minority.

But again, this is the question I have,

is where do consumers see the value, right?

You're saying that they deserve to make $500 to $1,000.

My argument would be is if you gave consumers the option

and said you can skip the dealership and title

but process entirely.

You don't get a salesperson.

You don't get this.

You buy the car in 10 clicks and it's $1,000 cheaper

than the dealership.

Truthfully, who is paying the $1,000 more?

That's what I'm saying.

I don't think you can always get a $1,000 better deal.

Like if somebody said, hey, Tommy from Delivered.

No, I'm not talking about take Tommy from Delivered out.

I'm saying there's two worlds.

Tommy from Delivered doesn't exist.

You're the only person that does this, though.

No, no, no, you're not listening

and you just wanted to argue, which is okay.

Like, but just hear me out.

I'm not, believe me, I'm not trying to argue with you.

We're having a conversation.

Yeah, yeah.

So let me lay this out, right?

Bailey, okay.

So there's two options.

Option A, to buy a car.

I can go direct to consumer.

I can buy my car from Toyota.

It's $1,000 cheaper than what the dealership is offering me today.

I can buy the car in 10 clicks and I don't have to do anything.

Or option B, I can go work with Bailey at the dealership.

It's going to cost me $1,000 more because the dealership should

cost $1,000 instead of the deserve a profit.

And that's the experience.

And I have to go through the full dealership experience.

I've got to go through the back and forth.

I've got to go, even if there's no back and forth,

I still have to go through that process.

How many consumers are going to say,

I see $1,000 worth of value in the dealership

and I would pay $1,000 more to work with a dealership

versus working directly with Toyota?

I think either six or seven out of 10 people would say

they would want to actually go to a dealership

and have the experience and have somebody

that can go over the car with them, show them the car.

And go over the entire car with them.

I mean, we're going to have to agree that 70% of people

do not enjoy the car buying experience

and 7% of people say they trust a car salesman.

I believe you with that people don't enjoy going to most dealerships

because, I mean, you do have your typical car dealerships.

But again, there are dealerships out there

that aren't your typical car dealership

where they're just trying to take advantage of it.

But again, the consumers never going to know which one's which, right?

Every car salesman, if they're good, bad, or ugly,

are all going to say, we're nice, we're good,

we're going to take care of you, even if they're not, right?

Like, consumers can't go in.

And again, this is where you go.

And maybe that's where maybe your dealership should try, right?

Maybe your dealership should try to just be $1,000 more expensive,

be upfront, say, hey, we charge $1,000 to work with us

because we're worth it.

I think you'd be shocked on the amount of consumers

that would direct to consumer.

I mean, Tesla's a premium model there,

Rivian's a premium model.

More consumers want to go to that.

I don't think, if you're honest with yourself,

the majority of people would pay $1,000 more to work with you.

Not saying me, specifically.

Well, just dealerships, just dealerships.

Just dealerships.

If I have two options, I can go to a dealership

or I can go to direct to consumer.

And I pay $1,000 more to go to them.

But for a lot of people, it's not about the money.

That's not the problem.

They want to understand how to operate their car.

They want to know how their car works,

the features of their car.

Most of these people, they go buy a car

and they have no idea what their car has.

That's a problem.

So is that worth $1,000 for somebody to know?

Or is it worth $200?

Is it worth $100?

Is it worth the price?

Is it worth $1,000?

Absolutely.

They get into an accident because they

don't know how to use something correctly.

There's your $1,000 that you saved them.

If you get in an accident because you don't know how

to use the car correctly, in what world

is somebody getting in an accident because they didn't

know how to use what their turn signal?

A turn signal that you literally,

if you don't think that people just don't know

how to operate cars and that's why they hit things

and that's why they back into things, then OK, that's fine.

I mean, you're not giving driving lessons, Bailey.

Like, let's be real, you're not giving driving lessons.

But what would stop me as a business owner to say,

OK, cool, to go through the dealership model is $1,000.

As a business, I bet I can teach everything Bailey can

and I could probably do it for like $300, right?

I could do it for $300.

So you could go direct to consumer

and then another consumer that you could just

bring your car over to education.com

and I will teach you how to use your car for $300.

The idea that the education level,

what you're teaching somebody how to use a car,

which you're talking about something that is potentially

15 minutes to maybe an hour of teaching somebody

how to use a car.

And I'm going to use an hour loosely.

I don't think most people are doing deliveries

for over an hour teaching people the tech on the car.

I wish they weren't.

It's just not the majority.

I mean, average delivery in America

is about 25 to 30 minutes

for going through the tech side of things.

Manufacturers track this, dealerships track this.

Right, at a dealership where they're just like,

yep, I just want to make a quick profit

here you go, have a nice day.

Not where you earn your profit.

Not at a place where you earn your profit.

You earn your money.

Yeah, but if somebody doesn't want help,

then they don't want help.

Then you can't force somebody to go through help, right?

So if some people are saying they want help,

some people, they don't.

That's what averages are.

Get the horse to the water, but you can't make them drink.

Yeah, correct.

So again, what we're talking about is you believe,

and this is where you go, which is totally fine.

You're allowed to believe this is why I want you to talk to you.

This is what you're here for.

You believe that your expertise is worth a thousand bucks,

which kind of boggles me.

So I guess my expertise, let's just go through this.

You just keep saying that it's just me specifically.

I'm not saying me.

It's the dealership in a hole.

It's the detail department.

It's a hand wash and the interior exterior cleaning

of the car.

It's the whole nine yards.

It's not just me going over the car with that client.

You're saying it's the washing of the car,

the prep of the car.

The washing, the cleaning, the going over the safety inspection

before it actually hits the road.

These are all things that have to happen

before somebody can purchase a car.

Can't just take a car from the manufacturer

and slap it on the road and say, here you go.

But the manufacturer is paying the dealership to do that, right?

You're just double dipping on profit.

But either regardless, you still have to pay for it too.

Your customers are still paying for that too.

No, if I say, hey, I'm going to give you this property.

I need you to prep this property.

I'm going to pay you 50 bucks to prep that.

And you take that profit and now you're going to say,

hey, I'm going to charge the thousand dollars

because we prep it.

You're double dipping, right?

And that's why one of the reasons why consumers don't like it.

It's like, yeah, like manufacturers giving you money

and now you're claiming the consumer is going to as well.

Yeah, to purchase the vehicle.

But again, you are saying it's right as a business to say,

you know what, the manufacturer is going to pay me

to prep this car if it costs $100.

And that's what I charge.

And that includes the profit already built in on the hourly.

It's OK to now charge the customer to do the exact same thing.

It's similar to, I've never had an apartment

where somebody's charged you to clean it.

And then when you move in the next person,

they charge to clean it again.

It's like that same concept.

I appreciate the time, Tommy.

Thank you very much.

And if you ever know anybody looking for a Lincoln.

Sounds good.

Thanks, Tommy.

Have a great day.

All right, bye.

So again, that's where somebody believes

they believe their time is worth a thousand bucks.

And the question that I would have at that point is,

what is my time worth?

What is delivered?

If he believes that an hour's worth of the dealership's time,

which is cleaning a car and going through prep,

what does he think the five hours of my time is worth?

Should I be charging five grand per deal?

Because that's what it's worth.

A car wash is 30, 40 bucks.

The best case.

And I will tell you guys, if you guys don't know,

the people who get paid for car washes in the back

are not expert detailers

that have just been detailing their entire life.

They are high school kids that are working part-time

back there cleaning your car.

Like that's who it is.

So, and they get paid maybe $15 an hour though.

And it takes them about,

it depends on how long it takes to prep a car.

But if we have two people on it,

you could probably get a car cleaned in 30 minutes.

That was good.

Give a round of applause to Bailey for trying being up here.

Let's go through and see who else is ready.

Okay, we're having the next person here.

Hey, this is Tommy.

We're going to have the pleasure of speaking with you.

I thought this was Brandon.

Oh, I thought I was, I thought you were Brandon.

I'm Tommy.

Just kidding, bro.

Oh, jeez, man.

I was about to hang up.

I was like, too, they got trolled.

But I got you good.

I got you good, man.

You won the first point of the day.

Stand straight, brother.

How are you doing?

Man, I'm doing well, doing well, man.

You understand the premise here?

You can pick any topic you want to debate me on

that I believe in or don't believe in.

All right, please give me a topic I believe in

so that it's easier for me to debate.

But sure, if you're going to be one I don't believe in,

I guess I can try.

Yeah, I agree with 98% of everything you've said

from the day I watched your first content.

I worked at what they call a Highline store.

So we had Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, et cetera.

I hate our industry.

I created a Facebook account and never put where it worked

because I was like, yeah, that's gross.

I want people to know I'm in the car industry.

The thing I'm disagreeing with to a degree

is you've multiple times stated rate markup

and there is almost no rate mark these days.

It's all flat.

It's 1%, 1.5%, maybe 2%.

But they're really innocent.

What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, then if you believe that, then why not just ban it?

My general idea is that a finance manager,

because I was in the back office,

will act as if they have a fiduciary duty

and consumers will blindly trust finance managers

because they think they do have fiduciary duty and they don't.

But I think the general rule of thumb of trying to make money

on the financing is an unethical thing

without some type of disclosure

that the person doesn't have a fiduciary duty.

To clarify, if they walked into the local credit union

and the local credit union gave me 1% at 4.99

and they walked into the brick and mortar,

they said, hey, client, 4.99.

What have I done wrong?

Yeah, I think right now, consumers are walking in

not understanding that dealerships make money on rate

and have a financial incentive to get you to pay a higher rate

and convince you to say yes to a higher rate.

That is the problem I have and consumers don't understand that

because dealerships use language

and I imagine your dealership uses the same.

Something along the lines of we have the best finance office,

we work with the most banks,

we will get you the most competitive financing.

They use words that in any other industry,

you would only be able to use if you had a fiduciary duty.

You can't say, I have the best rates,

I'm going to take care of you and then pick a rate

that's more expensive to make more money.

That is unethical in my eyes.

I agree. However, we at least at my dealership

was just like a nine franchise branded store.

We're trained. You cannot say that legally.

You can't say I've got the best rate.

You can say I've got a good rate but not the best.

I think the language is going to, if I go through,

and like I said, I think if I went through your dealership

and audited your dealership, even if it's not the best,

it's going to be like, I'm going to take care of you on the rate.

My finance manager has been doing this for 15 years.

He always takes care of my clients.

This language is still assuming that they have a fiduciary duty.

People aren't going into the checkout line

expecting that finance person is going to make money on them, right?

They're expecting that that person is helping them

buy the product that they just bought with you.

Right. And then that gets to my next topic,

which is incentivizing your car, because I've never sold a car,

whatever, college educated, just went into the finance office

and long story, they incentivize customers

because they know the reserves.

So if you're paying cash at 27.5, if you're financing,

it's only 20 because we're going to make 750 off of the bank

and life's good. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that should all go away.

Yeah. I mean, it's just how it is.

So other than that, with regard to the entire idea

of dealerships in general, I load them.

I hate what I do, but guess what?

It makes your six-figure income. You know that.

I mean, that's one of the reasons why I left.

I was good at what I did. I made money and called it a day

and started my own company. I'll say there's always options.

So don't be afraid to leave if you don't want to, man.

Life's too short to do something you hate just to make money.

You know, that's, you know, Ryan is one of our new hires.

He was making $400,000 a year selling cars.

He left that job to work for us.

And the reason being is he wanted to get in the ground up,

not saying to work for us, but like he took a huge pay cut to be here.

But he took a huge pay cut to be here because life's too short

and he wants to be able to help change this industry.

His bike matters.

Yeah. He wants to change this industry.

He doesn't want to be in a world where, you know,

he's contributing to the problem.

So, yeah, much appreciated.

And if you ever need a intelligent human being,

my number's in the chat.

So hit me up if you'd like because I am outdone with this.

I can't fester the, you're totally right, Tommy.

These owners are such grubby, grubby guys.

Like I, we have window etching.

I don't, you know what that is probably.

It's a complete shit. Sorry.

Bull crap. There's a issue.

You know, it's like that is fake as whatever.

So anyway, I appreciate your time, my friend.

I will continue to watch you.

Okay, man. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Take care, Tommy.

Goodbye.

Oh, wait, we have another person.

We have another person.

Oh, he's that Rivian.

Oh, this is interesting.

I like we're gonna give me a free Rivian.

Let's go.

Hi, I'm a call assistant recording this call

for the person you're trying to reach.

Please say who you are and why you're calling.

Tommy, delivered debate.

Please provide more details.

Tommy, I'm debating people on live social media

and I would like to talk to Mr. Michael.

Hello.

Hello. How's it going?

How's it going?

Great. I didn't like me.

Yeah. I don't know how to shut it off.

I just updated and I don't like it either.

That's all good, man.

Okay. So I don't know when you jumped in,

but we general ideas.

If you disagree with me, have a conversation.

I'm all for it.

I'm interested because you work at Rivian.

I'm interested in your take here.

Right. So I work direct to consumer.

I'm actually a technician.

I don't, I'm not in the sales.

I'm not any of that.

But my take on it was when,

I think it was car mom, Diane, was up.

I completely agree with your whole business model.

I plan on hiring you here shortly in the future

because I can go to a direct to consumer.

And this is maybe where I disagree with you.

I can go to direct consumer and spend, you know,

if I want a fully loaded Rivian, $130,000,

or I can wait until, you know, a year later

and hit the market, it's at a dealership

and I can get it for a much bigger discount.

So where I disagree with her on that is direct to consumer

doesn't mean dealerships go out of business.

Somebody still got to sell those used cars.

Yeah. And I love that, right?

Which is like, like in the end,

I don't think dealerships ever go out of business completely.

I just think allowing,

and I obviously work at Rivian, you're on the tech side,

but like how much easier would it be for Rivian

to be able to get these cars out

if they weren't fighting regulation on regulation at Tesla?

You didn't have to go through how many lawsuits

to pave the way for them to actually manufacture cars.

Rivian, how much bigger of a brand would Rivian be?

Because Rivian makes a badass car.

And that's not me just gasping up, I like Rivian.

But how much cheaper would they be?

How much more could they get on the floor

if they could actually bypass all the nonsense?

Right. I didn't catch it.

What is your take on how cars men, cars people, to be paid?

My philosophy is that car sales,

because they have such a low trust rating,

that trusting a trading commission for trust

just doesn't make sense.

So everybody should be paid a fair salary.

My thoughts, if you paid 100 to $125,000 for car salesmen,

you can get some really, really good talent

and just paid them on experience and paid them on the mission.

I think you can get some really good talent there.

Yeah, I think they should be paid like technicians

because I've been a technician at a dealership.

I've been a technician at a mom and pop shop,

and I've been a technician at an actual manufacturing facility.

And flat rate is where they make all their money.

You're 100% correct in saying that

that a dealership makes the majority of their money in service

because tech may take 20 minutes on a vehicle,

but the book time says that that job was two hours.

So they just made all that extra money off of that repair.

Yeah, that's where service makes their money.

And top of that, with service repairs and warranty,

where they know that money's coming from the manufacturer,

it's guaranteed work they're getting every single month.

I mean, that's where service makes their money.

But yeah, I mean, this is,

I mean, as soon as we're going to agree on some most things.

Yeah, I mean, technicians don't make anything.

And it may have changed since I've been at a dealership,

but technicians make literally like bare minimum nothing

on warranty work.

That's why the majority of the people that,

like when I was at dealerships,

the majority of the people that was getting that warranty work

were new guys that was under the watch of a senior guy.

And that senior guy was still turning for the dealership

because they didn't want to pay him or him to lose money

on warranty work.

Yeah, I mean, it depends.

Good techs can make good money and franchise dealers,

just depending on exactly what you write

is how efficiently can they do the job,

compared to what the book is.

A senior tech that has every certification under the sun

that can do a five hour job in one hour

and is able to take so many jobs,

they're able to make a good amount of money.

Now are they underpaid?

You make that argument, right?

But I mean, service side,

I won't claim to be an expert on service.

Definitely more on the sales side,

but definitely we'll say that I know for effective dealerships

to make their money in service

and know enough to have that conversation.

Yeah, in the dealerships,

there are a whole thing on car salesmen.

I've been screwed over multiple times

in the central Illinois region.

I don't want to give out my exact location.

Yeah, I'll do that.

But I have a cousin that worked for a dealership

and the dealership had no idea that that was my cousin.

Well, he was good friends with one of the salespeople

that helped me.

And through the whole process,

I was being lied to the entire time because I was not,

I hadn't found you yet, I hadn't found your videos yet.

I was not going in there knowing what I know now.

And they were able to take advantage of me.

And I realized that when I watched your video

about how they jacked the sales rate

or the finance rate up on you and don't tell you.

And that's exactly what happened to me was,

he was like, he told my cousin,

I could have got this guy this finance rate,

but this one was better for me or for the dealership.

So we went with this one.

And I mean, that's happened at multiple different dealerships,

which is why I don't ever want to buy another car.

Why would I want to buy a car from a dealership

when in the end they're screwing me?

Yeah, when you know somebody's working against you,

it makes it less motivated, even go through the battle, right?

Especially when somebody can do it for you.

And it's like, okay, it's gonna get a great deal

and it's gonna be $1,000 more.

And I don't have to think about it.

And I know I got a good deal.

I think that's why a lot of consumers like yourself

are like, this model just makes sense.

But I think it would make more sense.

Now, you make an interesting point with used cars.

If used cars would ever be solved,

that's a whole different dynamic.

That was my other thing is,

I've been watching you for quite a while now,

but I haven't seen a used car deal.

Maybe I just haven't been on at the right time and caught it.

But I haven't caught a used car deal to see

how the negotiations go on that.

I've tried negotiating just off of what I've seen

on new cars that you do, and it doesn't work on use.

Yeah, used cars, we're in a pause right now,

so we haven't talked about them too much.

We were doing, there are some videos on YouTube,

but it's a lot more market data.

It's a lot more research to figure out

what a good deal is and what's not.

But I do want to save time for people

that want to argue with me, but I love this conversation.

I love to talk more later,

but I do have a few other people

that want to argue with me.

So for consent's sake, I'm going to go through

and get to the next person that wants to argue with me.

I'm good. I can't wait to watch it.

Thank you, man. I appreciate you.

Yep. Bye.

Now, we're going to verify a few people here more, guys.

Russell was not able to debate last time.

We'll let Russell on.

Hi.

Hello.

Hello. How's it going, Russell?

I'm doing good. How are you?

Man, I am doing well.

Doing well.

So I think you understand the premise.

You can disagree with anything I say,

anything I believe, and we'll have a conversation on it.

Yeah, man. Yeah, absolutely.

I just wanted to have you maybe rattle off a cut,

because I've watched a lot of your content,

but just a couple of your more controversial topics,

if you want them on.

Yeah, of course.

So I believe commission is a net negative for consumers.

I believe that direct to consumer should be allowed to exist.

Franchise laws should be abolished.

I believe the dealerships are not entitled to a profit.

I believe the finance should be illegal to mark up right.

With finance being illegal to mark up right,

would you be okay with it if it was properly disclosed?

At any point in time.

If you disclosed upfront before they ever walked in the room,

if they had options to not mark up right,

or options to buy the car, finance the car elsewhere,

and that the finance office doesn't have a fiduciary duty,

I'd be fine if that was disclosed upfront.

Okay, so in the perfect world,

what would the car business look like for you?

In the perfect world, I believe that direct to consumer

would allow to exist, and it would compete with the dealership model.

I believe in a perfect world delivered doesn't exist,

because it's not needed.

And I believe the manufacturer is competing with the dealership model,

and people who pay what convenience

will pay the cheaper prices of the manufacturer,

and people who want expertise

will actually have a better experience overall with the dealership.

I think that's the perfect world.

Would it be like a one price,

one price kind of model for every dealership in America?

Or would you want there to be different kind of price,

like dealer discounts and things like that?

Or would you want that gone,

and it to just be straight up like one price stores?

Yeah, I believe that manufacturers as a whole would be one price.

I don't think they would negotiate it.

It doesn't make any sense on a way to buy a car in 10 clicks.

For dealerships, that would be up to the dealership.

As long as many people have an option to buy from manufacturers,

I don't care how dealerships do business at that point,

because if the market allows for them to do business,

while consumers have alternatives,

then I think everything's A-okay, right?

I'm okay if dealerships want to charge $40,000 a markup on every car,

if they can sell the right or sell the value

while the manufacturer can still sell cars, go for it.

Rock and roll, I don't care.

But the problem is when there's no other option,

and the government has regulated and made it so that's the only way to buy a car,

if you're going to do that,

then you have to put protections to consumers.

Okay, I mean, I don't exactly disagree there,

but I think that if every store was one price,

it would completely eliminate any kind of competition, no?

Because the market competes with itself naturally.

Toyota competes with Honda, Mazda.

How bad does Mazda want to compete with Honda and Toyota's market share?

Well, I don't mean as much for manufacturer to manufacturer.

I mean, more so like within one manufacturer.

Like, okay, I want a Jeep Grand Cherokee,

and I look at five different Jeep stores,

and if we were to eliminate the competition aspect,

then it wouldn't really beat to shop around,

because every Jeep dealer would have the same exact price

for the same Jeep Grand Cherokee.

And they would probably all list pretty high, no?

Yeah, I mean, dealerships and manufacturers were able to go side by side,

and that would be up to dealerships to decide.

There might be a world where you do pay more,

and they actually get more sales because the experience is that much better.

Dealerships would have to start selling on experience, not price,

when they can't beat,

because the manufacturer is going to beat you on price every single time.

But I think you'd be silly to try to beat the manufacturer on price,

so if I was a dealership owner, I would compete on experience.

I could buy a car in 10 clicks,

but you're not going to have an expert.

You're not going to have somebody going to be there for you 24.

I would start competing on experience at that point if I was a dealership.

So you're saying that some people might pay more for the dealership experience?

I think there should be.

You know, the option to go to the manufacturer.

Brooke, yeah, I think that's their winning model.

I don't think anybody would do that for the experience, right?

If they could save $2,000 to $3,000 to go to the manufacturer,

then they would just do that, which is like,

because I don't think anybody cares about the experience that much,

that they would spend $2,000 or $3,000 more to work with a salesperson, right?

The real answer is how much more are they willing to spend?

And I would argue that people are willing to pay more for a better experience.

It's why people pay delivered, right?

People are willing to pay delivered knowing they're spending more for a better experience.

But now the argument is how much more, right?

And that's where the business model has to come in.

And you have to add real value to the consumer.

It can't be tint and floor mat.

It has to be what problems is the, this is how I would look at it.

If I'm a dealer owner tomorrow is what problems does the dealership

or does the manufacturer have?

Because buying a car from Tesla is not perfect, right?

It's better, but it's not a perfect.

I don't get the expertise, right?

That's one thing, right?

I don't get that VIP experience.

I would want it to be a much more luxurious experience buying a car at that.

And maybe that only is $1,000 more, but that might be worth it to some people

and a business model that makes sense to make $1,000 in order to go through that process

and be a VIP.

That might make sense to some dealers.

It might make sense to others.

But I think dealers would have to find a way to earn a profit.

Otherwise they would cease to exist.

And that's a good thing because every business should have to try to find value.

I don't have all the answers on how dealerships would solve it,

but like that is the beauty of starting your own businesses.

When you have your own business, if you can't solve a consumer's problems

and they're not willing to pay you, then you won't exist.

Now at this point, why is manufacturer to consumer not a thing?

Franchise laws.

Franchise laws, okay.

I mean, when you say dealerships aren't entitled to a profit,

I've heard you talk about that and I understand what you mean.

They're not entitled to a profit.

They have to earn a profit through their services and what they provide.

When you were in finance, you say you were the top PVR.

You were doing really well.

What is it that you were doing differently to help the consumer in a better way?

I'm not afraid to say that I made money in finance, right?

I tried to do it, as I said before, as ethically as I could.

I didn't sell fear.

I sold off of the idea that realistically,

you're probably never going to use coverage,

but that doesn't mean it's a bad investment.

Just like car insurance isn't a bad investment.

I went through that.

My experience with the car dealership,

I don't think I was the model citizen of how a dealership should run.

One of the reasons why I left,

I realized that I couldn't fix the business from the inside.

I was able to do it turn faster than anybody else.

Be able to make more money than everybody else.

Everything I did that I believe was great for the business,

but it wasn't ever able to solve the problem for consumers,

which is why I left.

So the way I ran a dealership doesn't necessarily mean that I would advise everybody.

I have a question for you.

So is the reason that you left the car business really because you felt guilt

about what you were doing and that you wanted to change the business for the better or for the

consumer?

Or is it because you kind of, you know,

you hit a point where you knew there was not much growing from there.

You saw a gap in the market.

You decided people don't like to buy cars.

I'm going to make a lot of money on this.

And that's why you did it.

Or was it out of the goodness of your heart that you wanted to help people?

I'd say you're somewhere in the middle, right?

When it comes down to it, I was making more and more money every year.

I never had a down year.

I was making, I was going to be on track.

I made my best year of the year before,

but when it came down to it,

it recently got introduced to my brother.

My brother and me had been disconnected for an entire life.

And my brother built businesses for a living.

It's what he did.

And I really got inspired by him.

He's my older brother and realized that I wanted to solve problems.

So I started finding ways rather than working for somebody to work for myself.

So I tried to think of ideas.

The biggest idea I had was like actually a finance training,

like kind of doing a rust flip.

So it's does both for finance, right?

Training people because I was good at what I did.

Then one day in finance, January 3rd, 2023, I had eight people go through my office.

All of them set up for finance.

All of them ready to go.

All of them said no.

All of them said the same thing.

I hate buying cars.

And the idea just kind of hit me in the head

that no matter how hard I work on fixing this industry,

no matter how good I get people in finance,

I'll never fix this for consumers.

And I realized that it made more sense to work on the consumer.

Why didn't you continue in the business up to GSM, GM, up those ranks?

Or is that just you were done with the car business at that point?

You're over it.

Yeah.

I didn't want to work for somebody else anymore.

I was making, like I said,

and that's where the business side comes in.

My brother realized I was making $3 million a profit for my owner.

And I was getting paid $250,000 a year.

So I didn't feel like my owner respected us

as well as he should for people that were profiting as much for the business.

And no matter how good I did,

no matter how fast I was and efficient,

I wasn't helping the consumer process

and there was always a push for more.

It just didn't make sense anymore to keep working on that side.

I realized that there was no matter how good I did,

no matter how high I made it at the dealership,

I could never fix the dealership from within.

You know, Doug Benz and Bowtie is a really good example.

He's trying to make an impact.

I don't think Benz and Bowtie's can actually change an entire industry.

He can change the people,

but with the position he's in right now,

he can only try to help consumers and help his dealership

and maybe help a few.

The industry that I'm in and what I've built,

I can change an entire industry.

Okay. All right.

Well, the only thing that is up being in the car business right now

is a lot of people absolutely hate any and every person in the car business

regardless of if they're transparent and they're honest or not.

And that seems to be a big problem,

you know, all over social media and your comment sections and things.

People keep saying, oh, well, you know,

anytime a car salesman will say, you know,

well, I'm honest to my customers and I do my best,

you know, everybody comments under, well, this person, you know,

of course a car salesman would say that.

Oh, you guys are horrible.

But in this era where everything is so transparent,

why, why, you know, because the things are very transparent,

wouldn't you agree with the internet?

No, I disagree.

Again, I do this all live, right?

Like I don't hide behind like, oh, I filmed a secret video and this is how it is.

Like I do this all live.

We did ideally yesterday where I negotiated

in well different dealerships and I couldn't either,

I couldn't get pricing or everybody was $3,000 or $5,000 above MSRP

and not advertising it, right?

This is not a world where some markets are transparent, some are.

Well, you know, from when you were in the business,

obviously if you have cars that there's a super limited supply of,

they're going to have markups on them.

I mean, if there's something that there's only a couple around

and they're very hard to find,

now you have the whole country at your disposal

where you're going to go across the country to find the car.

But if you're in an area like, you know,

you know, some county in Pennsylvania trying to find a really,

really rare car and a dealership has two of them

and nobody else has any really,

obviously they're going to have a markup on the vehicle.

Yeah. So like with this deal, I think some markup is inflated.

Like for example, we're looking at the Civic SI.

I call it every single dealership, not one of them had it pre sold.

Everybody had one or two to three available.

So this idea that I don't think it's rare anymore,

but people want to hope that somebody's willing to pay the markup.

They're willing to wait for it.

And I just think that's absurd.

I don't think that this idea that you can inflate a market yourself,

it doesn't make any sense when it would make sense.

You're allowed to inflate the market if you're allowed to have competition.

If the manufacturer was able to sell cars and they couldn't get one,

but now a dealership has one.

Now we can have an argument that dealerships can charge a markup

because I can't even buy this car from the manufacturer.

I bought this car and now I can charge a markup.

But the problem is, is I can't buy this Civic SI,

other than through you.

And every dealer we called with it was in a 500 mile radius in Texas.

So it wasn't like we were calling across the nation.

We called 12 different dealers.

And the market's not going to be determined by, you know, the dealership.

The market's determined by the buyers and somebody is willing to buy it,

obviously at that number.

Otherwise, you know, they wouldn't have it there.

Like if you have some rare car that's $5,000 marked up,

somebody's going to walk in there and want that car and pay that amount

or some little settle for some amount that's over MSRP.

But that would be the market being, you know, determined by the consumer.

That's not, you know, necessarily the dealership.

They can ask for $5,000 over MSRP.

But if a person goes in there, negotiate, still takes it for $3,000 over that, you know,

I mean, the consumer doesn't have to buy it.

They can walk away and say, no, but these cars,

they usually have addendums and markups on them.

Have that because consumers want them.

There's a limited supply. There's a high demand.

Yeah, I would disagree.

I believe that if a consumer is educated and understands they get a good deal

and the way you get your markup, because what dealers,

like if you look at the type R, for example, if you go to LA right now and you call any dealer

in LA, you'll find 48 of the exact colors you want.

You'll find every dealership has two to three.

Every dealership is $5,000 to $15,000 above MSRP.

They openly say they're waiting for somebody that doesn't understand the market on the car

to pay the markup.

This is no longer a situation where the market is dictating.

It'd be different if I called 43 dealerships and nobody had it.

The GX 550 is a good example of a car that actually has limited inventory.

Again, I believe when you only allow dealerships to sell cars,

it allows dealerships to set the market on a car and not be fair with it.

And there's collusion that is, that does exist when there's multiple dealers and auto nation,

how many dealers out of a city, there's a world where you might live in a city

where every dealer is owned by auto nation.

They're not even competing with themselves.

They're competing with a conglomerate of other dealerships that they own.

I don't think the market is set that way.

If you have inventory on the ground, you should no longer be able to charge markup on the car.

Yeah, but the competition I feel is a lot more local than like if you have,

if you have somebody a dealership in the middle of Utah,

they're not going to be competing with a dealership in LA.

So I'm saying you call any dealer in LA right now.

You can do it when you jump on the call.

You'll find 48 of them available.

Everybody will have theirs available sitting in their showroom floor.

Every dealer in LA, there's 48 of them I can find of exact color, exact option.

Call every dealer.

We have three of them.

They're all, they're all right here.

Nope, we're 15 grand above MSRP.

Take it or leave it.

And that's the situation where you're taking advantage.

Yeah, I mean, I'd agree that that's crazy.

I'd agree that if you have a high supply of cars and a high demand,

and the math doesn't really make sense,

I was working with Jeep when they came out the demon.

And the demon obviously was one of those cars, super rare,

and they were marked up a lot,

but that's because there was a limited supply in the country.

But if you have a car that obviously there's a lot of supply of whatever.

But one thing that I would want to say real quick,

because I know that we've been going a bit and I know you've got other people to talk to,

but could a person, could a consumer very easily do what it is that you do for customers

with the help of ChatGPT and maybe an hour of time with AI to get a good deal on a new vehicle?

No, because if they could do it in an hour's time,

I believe that we could do it in 45 minutes of time

and my company would be way more profitable and I wouldn't have 22 employees.

So like on average, we spend per car deal about five hours of total time.

Some of that wait time is just waiting on dealerships back and forth.

It's calling.

It's going to the process.

ChatGPT can be a great assistant.

I'm not saying that's not, but ChatGPT does not know the actual market on a CivicSI

because they haven't actually negotiated.

They can try to go online and figure out what other people say is a good deal,

but they don't actually have real market data.

They can't go through.

They can go through and estimate what invoice is,

but that doesn't mean that's a good deal.

So like ChatGPT is only limited to the amount of information it has

and there's no public data out there saying this is a good deal based on actual deals.

Negotiations.

No, I get that.

It's not pulling real time selling price and things,

but I've had people that do come in using ChatGPT as their assistant in buying a car

and they have gotten a lot better of deals with ChatGPT even in the box.

I had somebody pull out their phone in the finance office with me

and ChatGPT was telling them what a good deal is for a service contract

for that vehicle based on the amount of time the service contract will be for.

And they actually did pull this out and ChatGPT was very accurate

and from what I understand used it the entire process to buy the vehicle

and it did get them a much better deal.

And so my only point is I don't think that you would need to spend a thousand

for somebody to go do all this for you if you're willing to do the work,

but I think that your business model is good because it does.

I think Hedget's bet on that people don't feel like really doing that work,

but I think that most people are very capable of getting ChatGPT using some AI,

calling a bunch of dealerships, getting the best number for each one

and really narrowing it down.

I mean, that would be, I'm not saying anything against you.

Like I think that you do a great job,

but I do think that people could very easily get themselves a good deal

without spending the extra thousand dollars.

Yeah, yeah.

So I believe if you use the right tools, you can get there.

The problem is, and this is where consumers go through,

is how many times does anybody use ChatGPT?

ChatGPT says with 100% confidence that five plus three is 12, right?

Like the problem with ChatGPT and probably with any AI,

and this is one of the reasons why like Amazon.

What are you saying?

You said ChatGPT says five plus three is 12.

There's plenty of channels that'll go through and actually show

like how crazy ChatGPT will hallucinate.

Like you can say, hey, set a time, I'm going to run a mile, set a timer.

And then, okay, cool.

Or you can say, how many days of the week have the letter Q in them?

It's not perfect, right?

It's not perfect science because that's the problem that you go into

and like you see companies like Anthropic, Facebook,

all doubling or backing down, right?

Everybody was saying Anthropic was saying 60% of the workforce

was going to be replaced by AI.

They're walking that back so fast where they're hiring AI

because AI is so expensive to actually use at a high level.

Token cost is absolutely insane.

I love AI.

I think it's a great tool and it can be, but AI is not perfect.

But even with AI, it doesn't mean that all of a sudden

you can just get a good deal because one of the biggest objections we have

is we don't get pricing over the phone, right?

So like, how does AI get through that?

How does AI overcome that?

You have to learn how to actually get somebody to give you numbers over the phone

and that can be a trouble.

If you have AI negotiators,

a lot of dealerships have already found ways to offset that

and just stop negotiating with AI.

We've already seen plenty of test fails there.

Again, I just don't think it was easy for people to do.

First off, deliver to be doing that tomorrow, right?

We would be using, I would not need to pay 22 people to do 400 deals.

I would pay three people to do those deals a call a day

as a business owner.

That would make more sense.

And then secondly, consumers would do it.

Consumers are smart.

I generally believe that almost all consumers are smart

and they're educated and they try things and it just doesn't work.

And that's where people come in.

I would say even as far as people don't even hire us to get a good deal,

people hire us because they just, frankly, don't want to.

They're like, you know what?

I don't want to have to talk to the guy.

I don't think, I think it's absurd that I have to,

I have to rely on chat GBT to get a good deal

and I can't just go to you and get a good deal.

This is absurd.

I'd rather just pay somebody to do software.

But again though, but again,

the only reason that you say you can't get a good deal by yourself is because people,

like obviously you can walk in and say what price you want.

If the dealership says no, then you just get up and you leave.

But obviously the whole process would be very easy.

If you walked in and just said, yeah, I'll take the car at that price.

And then you walk out like obviously that'd be easy,

but nobody does that because obviously we're taught not to.

And obviously dealerships have competition.

You can get better deals when you negotiate.

But I think that some problems from the early 2000s have carried over to now

where a lot of our parents, our grandparents,

are telling us not to trust dealerships.

Dealerships are out to get you.

They're out to steal from you.

And I don't really think that that's the case in 2026.

Well, let me just try one statement.

Do you guys negotiate at your dealership?

Do we negotiate at our dealership?

I mean, if a customer wants to negotiate, we negotiate.

Like, of course we do.

Every dealership has to, really.

No, no, no, so my general thing is if I go in and I fully trust you

and I walk in and say, I trust you wholeheartedly,

I'm going to say yes to everything you recommend.

Will I spend more or will I spend less than the person who negotiates?

I mean, yeah.

You will spend, you will spend more.

Well, this is a logic trap.

Like obviously if you go and negotiate with somebody,

you're going to get a better deal.

I'm not telling people to go in and not negotiate.

But that's what I'm saying.

We can't trust you if I know that you don't have a fiduciary duty to me.

If you, I know that if you make more money for the amount of money I spend,

you always have a mixed interest of,

I want to sell a car and take care of a consumer,

but I also want to make sure I have a paycheck to pay my family.

This is one of the reasons why I don't believe commission should exist

because there is your motives apart where when somebody tries to get a good deal

and they try to negotiate because they're trying to take care of their family,

you feel like you're trying to take care of your family and it calls it a day.

But the general rule of thumb is if I trust a car deal.

Listen, we're going to dealership that the front end is almost typically always a loss

because our inventory is, it's mainly a lot of use.

It's some new, right?

But we're at a dealership where our front end is typically losing money to get the car out, right?

So two or $3,000, $4,000 is the max loss on the front end that we can take.

All right.

But if we have a car listed online for a two or $3,000 loss

and somebody wants to come in and negotiate off of that,

we don't negotiate off the internet number and people do tend to get upset at that.

But we explained that this is the best number that we can put together for this car.

But people want that negotiation.

They want that win.

They want that feeling of like, I got a good deal.

But if I can show you on paper, we're losing $3,000.

And you say, well, that's not my problem.

I want more money off.

I mean, at that point, we are being, in my opinion, fair by giving you a deal

where we're losing this much money on the car to sell it.

This is the problem.

One of the problems with dealerships is you're conflating with you losing money

means consumer gets a good deal.

You don't think about, if you just take those car dealership glasses in the world,

nobody thinks like that in any other industry.

If I'm going on Amazon and I'm trying to buy something,

I'm not like, oh, this dealership's losing $500 to sell me these Elanis.

I'm going to do it.

You say, they won't sell me a finish until I leave the finish.

But the answer is, consumers say, is this price worth it?

Yes or no?

I'm willing to pay it.

Nobody cares about the profit.

And I think it's one of the biggest problems with dealerships.

They keep saying, what is profit fair?

I'm not willing.

I'm sorry.

You have a product that people are not buying because people are not buying

and the market isn't there.

Guess what?

You have to sell it at a loss.

Welcome to every business in the world.

If you own a lot and you're losing $3,000 on the car,

would you agree to lose $4,500 on the car?

If it makes financial sense, yes.

If I have to get rid of it.

70 days old, you know, whatever, $3,000 loser,

you're going to take another $1,500 off, $2,000 off to sell the car.

It makes financial sense for the dealership.

But again, this is where we go in.

It doesn't matter as a business owner.

Because as a business owner, I have to decide,

is it worth selling this car at all?

And I make an educated decision because I have all the information.

But what we're talking about is the eyes of the consumer.

Is it right for the consumer to say, well, they're losing three grand.

So I should spend my more money $3,000 more just to help this business,

which I couldn't even get the best deal up front.

I have to negotiate in the first place.

Like this is where like the consumer feels, which is,

why should I subsidize a dealership that isn't adding much value at all to me?

And that's where consumers feel they don't care about how much profit you make.

I think this is like, you guys go down this rabbit hole where you're like,

profit, profit, profit.

I will tell you, I've interviewed more clients than 99.999% of people.

Nobody cares about the profit.

They care, are they getting, as you said, are they getting a great deal?

And in the end, that is what they want is a great deal.

It's just like you do when you buy anything.

Nobody goes in and says, you know what, I'm going to pay more for this

because today's their lucky day.

Like people just don't think that way.

They're like, am I going to buy this steak?

Is it a good deal?

I went to Dean's Steakout yesterday at $80 steak.

Is that worth $80 or will I buy the $40 pasta?

I have to make a decision.

What's worth it for my hard-earned money?

I don't think Texas Roadhouse, I could get that for $30.

So I should just leave and go like, I think is my money worth it?

Yes or no?

I understand what you're saying.

I do.

I just, you know, not all dealerships operate in the way that I see you talking about.

Like you say service, the service department is where they usually recoup these losses.

And that's true in most cases.

But like at the dealership I work at, our service center is really just like a recon center

where they're not really actually doing that much work.

And it's all really up to the sales department to come up with the actual money to run the dealership.

And so I'm just saying it's not all like a blanket truth that all dealerships operate in a way

where they could take losses and then make it up in service or make it up in the finance office.

You know, because you know from being in finance, it's not like every single deal,

you know, you're making up for it, right?

Now you sounds like it sounds like you worked at mainly new car dealers

with high volume areas that all worked that way.

We did 200 to 250 deals a total of months.

Mid to high volume, right?

It's pretty good.

It's 100 us, 150 with two manufacturers.

I mean, you're talking 75 to 90 new cars on a super dealership.

But what I will say is, and just frankly, and just like welcome to owning a business,

none of this is the consumer's problems, right?

If another business can do it cheaper more effectively and make somebody happier,

why are you in business?

Like, why should I pay you more?

You have to now defend that to the business that you should pay more for this for X, Y, and Z.

The consumer can make that educated decision.

They know there's cheaper options.

They're willing to work with you.

But like, why should it?

There's a reason why Amazon is a superior model right now,

why Amazon has made it better for consumers,

because I can get something same day, I can get things cheaper,

and it makes logistical sense for people to do.

And other businesses have faltered at that,

but it's benefited the consumer more than anything else.

Understood.

All right, man.

Well, hey, it's been a pleasure talking to you.

I don't want to hold you up, and I got plenty of people to talk to,

and we've been going for 20, 25 minutes now.

No, it was a good conversation here.

And yeah, I think I have one or two more here.

So I'm going to...

Last question.

What do you think of finance managers since you were one for so long?

The best sales person in the business, but they should never be trusted.

There's no...

You should never trust a finance manager.

I mean, there's no...

So you have to be trusted then.

You're not a finance manager.

I'm not a finance manager anymore.

Well, you were for a long time.

Yeah.

So you have the quality of a finance manager, right?

Yeah, sure.

Again, finance managers are paid.

The more money you spend, the more money they get,

and they're very good at convincing you to do that.

I'm no longer a finance manager,

so I have no incentive to convince you to spend more in the finance office.

But you're still good at convincing people to spend their money.

I've got to convince people to pay a flat fee of $1,000, right?

And I do that with an anti-sales model.

Like, my anti-sales...

So people like...

I don't have a sales funnel at Deliver.

People are blown away by that.

Like, I don't have a sales team.

We don't do follow-up.

If you reach out to us and ask us a question,

we answer your question, and that's it.

I don't have a follow-up system.

We don't have a repeat referral system.

We don't have people chasing down clients.

We don't have any of that.

Like, my DMs, I do my best to respond and answer questions,

but I'm not like, you should hire us.

Do this. I say you should not hire us.

You can do this on your own.

I'm an anti-sales model.

I think people are so shocked by that model

that they hire us out of a win because they're like, you know what?

This guy's being so honest.

He's literally telling me I can do this on my own.

I just don't want to deal with it.

Here's your money.

But, and I appreciate your time, man.

I really do.

Yeah, nice meeting you, man.

Nice talking to you.

Take care, and have a nice rest of your day.

Thank you. You too. Bye.

Okay. We DM'd on Instagram.

I'm the Jacob guy.

Okay. Do you want to call the Jacob guy?

Send me your number. I'll call you whatever.

I'm bored.

Okay. I'll call him.

We're going to call some random person

that is going to defend Andrea.

Yes. Hello.

Hey, is this Jacob?

Yeah, this is me.

Okay. So yeah, man.

The rule is simple on these debate streams.

You said you wanted to defend Andrea.

So this is your moment.

Yeah. Just to clarify as well,

I want to defend the topic, not the person.

She was making a lot of baseless claims.

So it was more of the topic on like building a relationship

with like a sales rep slash dealership.

Okay. So you wanted to defend.

Do you think there's value to that?

I disagree.

I think that there's value to that, yes.

Okay. I'll dive into it.

You saw your point.

Yeah. So I'm speaking on like my own personal experience,

of course. Personally, I still have customers.

I've been in the industry for five years now.

I'm in no way to hang on the veteran at all.

Just immediately five years.

But you know, I have customers that I've personally

built a relationship with and they've, you know,

on their end as well done work to build a relationship with me

that I've not even necessarily sold a vehicle to.

I've just met them, you know,

shared a good conversation about their wants, needs,

what they're looking for and sent them in the right direction,

whether it's on my lot or another one.

And to this day, I still have those customers that,

you know, occasionally shoot me a tag or occasionally call me,

say, Hey, you know, I have this friend looking for this,

you know, where I can find that,

what's your opinion on this vehicle?

And, you know, I give them,

I'd like to think I give them value whenever they contact me

and I, you know, don't necessarily get a sale out of it every time.

But I think that us having that relationship benefits them

and it benefits me as well because, you know,

as I'm sure, you know, word of mouth and recommendations are huge

in this industry. So yeah, that's my position.

Okay. You told me a lot of reasons on why it benefits you.

You didn't give me any reasons on why it benefits the consumer

other than they have somebody to talk to.

Yeah, I think that for them, it's not everybody is,

you know, comfortable doing the research on their own,

especially like an older customers,

they very much so prefer first having like a confidant.

And I feel like if you pick the right person,

you know, I like to think that I'm honest and give people,

you know, I give people the knowledge that I have on hand.

And like I said, whether it's for me or, you know, another lot,

like I said, it's not necessarily me convincing them

that what I have is good. Sometimes I don't have what they need

and I will, you know, send them elsewhere and not elsewhere.

Like I have a friend who's another dealership elsewhere,

like really just, you know, car fact looks clean,

price so good in contrast to the market and, you know,

everything that they want is there.

So I think that for people that are not, you know,

necessarily tech savvy or not necessarily research comfortable with research,

I think that go to person at the end of the day,

you know, they sleep all night knowing that I'm that I'm there for them.

What is there any proof that you're actually working for the customer

and not the dealership? Obviously you have a two,

like I don't know what brand you sell, but like in reality,

I am very hard pressed to believe that you are telling people

if you're not actually the cheapest prices,

you're not shopping competition, you're not saying,

okay, well, I found a cheaper deal.

I know that I am awesome and you should pay more for me,

but I found $2,000 cheaper down the street just so you have options.

Yeah. So for me at the end of the day, the mindset,

and this is where I was saying, like with some people in chat as well,

it really depends on the sales rep.

I do think that it boils down to who you are as a person,

but at the end of the day, whether or not I can manipulate someone,

so to speak, into buying a car for me or just, you know,

be honest with them and say, Hey, you know, I don't have what you want,

you know, but down the road, as you said, down the road,

they have a $2,000 cheaper. I recommend to go there.

Sure, it can be argued that like, Hey, I'm, you know,

leaving money on the table. I could have, you know,

done in Andy Elliott Beach where, you know,

you drill the customer into the chair and don't let them leave.

I've had a lot of success in my five years not doing it that way and telling them,

Hey, this is cheaper. Go down the street and get that.

And my benefit is through references.

Those people really appreciate someone that doesn't treat them the way

that they're usually treated by a majority of those men.

So for them at the end of the day, when they have, you know,

their kid that grows up and is looking for a car,

if I have what they want and, you know, they want what I have,

then they'll think of me and they come to me and that's where I'll yield the benefit afterwards.

Yeah. And this, this is where I'd make the argument.

And I hope you're honest here.

Most people aren't honest here, but it's okay to be honest here.

If I go through and I buy a car from you every single day or every,

let's just say for three years, I come by a car, at least a car every three.

And I buy a Honda road or whatever. I buy a Honda CRV every single time.

And I'm the person that just says yes. I agree that you should make money.

And I just say yes to everything. And every single time you guys know,

Tommy walks in, he is saying yes to everything. I'm sorry.

If I buy 15 cars and I'm the person that says yes to everything,

your sales manager isn't going to go and say, you know what,

this guy's bought 15 cars and I know he'll say yes at MSRP,

but let's just sell it less because loyalty matters.

There's just no sales manager in the world that's doing that.

If it's a slam dunk deal and they know him as a yes, the loyalty goes out the window,

relationships go out the window because you know, I'll say yes.

So all of this is fun and dandy, but the facts of the matter is,

is that the relationship means nothing unless I ask for that leverage.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I think that honestly,

to be totally honest, I think that I'm obviously fighting for a very low percentage.

As I'm sure you know, and I'm sure a lot of people know themselves,

we're unfortunately living in a world where it is more common that,

that is the experience that the buyer will have when they walk into a dealership.

That's just, you know, the way that the industry is right now, unfortunately.

But I feel, I still believe that, you know, I don't have the exact percentage,

so I'm not going to provide one, but say a small portion of the art industry will have the,

you know, sales representative. Like I said, I can only speak for my own experiences.

So myself personally, I consider myself more of an advisor, not a sales rep.

I'm not here to load up your transaction because you say yes to everything.

At the end of the day, it's what do you need, you need this.

Okay, cool, then let's do that. And for my manager as well,

managers that I've worked with and managers in my region as well,

maybe I'm just lucky, but a lot of my experiences with directors here,

they don't do that. And maybe the laws, you know, I'm not as well informed,

maybe it's a more of a legal thing of where I'm located, that they're not able to do that.

I do see your point and I do see that people that say yes are very unprotected,

but I think that it doesn't fall necessarily as much on the dealership's responsibility to resolve

that. I think that it's down to the manufacturers as well, that, you know, if you look at a brand

like Genesis, for example, that doesn't allow any form of negotiation, even down to, you know,

winter mat and winter tires, the price is the price and that is what it is, at least for

Genesis Canada, an openly known fact for the brand. And it's specifically to protect those

that say yes, yes, yes to everything. Some people don't like it, but I think that at the end of the

day, it really boils down to the manufacturer. Yeah. And again, I won't claim to be an expert

in the Canadian market, but I will say that's not a manufacturer. Like in America, that rule

doesn't exist. A manufacturer can't control that. So like Genesis negotiates. We negotiate all the

time. It's just a Hyundai product. Interesting. Yeah. Myself as well, like I am in Canada though,

I can only speak on behalf of like my own experiences. But yeah, no, it's definitely

a broken industry. That's why I said like, I don't really want to defend Andrew in any way,

more so the topic that, and I will for sure agree, is that your rarity and I'm not trying to talk

myself up in any way, shape or form. But because I know many, many, many others that operate in

the same light that I operate in, it boils down to how you're trained. And you still haven't explained

like what the, like me having, like you being a good car salesman and you being good at your job,

like that's just because you're good at your job and you're doing that. The relationship didn't

meet. If I'm buying my first car from you, or if I've never bought a car from you, or if I've

bought 17 cars from you, it seems to me that you're treating me the same, which means the

relationship means nothing. The only thing that matters is that I need to deal with somebody

that's good. And then that's taken care of. The relationship art means nothing.

Yeah. No. So I think that at the end of the day, the relationship is kind of like a,

it goes hand in hand with working with the right dealership and with the right sales

representative. I think that if you're with a people that, you know, have morals, we'll call

it how it is people that aren't crooks and have morals and, you know, treat it more so as providing

a service and not a, again, sorry to bash on him, but the, you know, the Andy Elliott's of the car

industry that, you know, drill people into their seat and don't let them leave. And our hungry

sharks will full Wall Street quote, left and right. I think that the relationship comes hand

in hand. It's an after product, if anything, of knowing that you found a proper dealership. Now,

is it weaponized by many people? Like you were saying, like, oh yeah, if you build a relation,

like I was listening to your calls and they were like, I want to build a relationship with you,

let's do this deal. Do I think that a deal needs to be, and that's where my standing is. Do I think

that a deal needs to be made in order for a relationship to be formed? Absolutely not. I

think that a relationship can be made between a dealership and a customer and a sales rep and

a customer, whether or not a vehicle was purchased or not. At the end of the day, what a lot of us

seem to have forgotten is that we are ultimately advisors. We are representatives of a brand

or of a dealership, not, you know, brokers. So that's my point on the matter. And I appreciate all

of that. But like, I mean, you, you were very transparent by saying it doesn't matter if they

bought a car from you or not, you're willing to treat them that way, which just means that that's

who you are. That doesn't mean the relationship means anything, right? Like it's not, there's no

value the consumer is getting out of it. And like I said, you being on, they don't even know if you're

being honest or not. When you're talking to them, for sure, this is all just trusting the person

they are. And I would still advise people, I just don't see the benefit other than you being able to

answer questions for them. But I just like, you also are going to have, even if you don't want to,

your manager, your owner is going to put some type of strain on like, if you told your owner,

owner, it said, Hey, I sold a car, I told somebody to go buy a car down the street,

because they were $1,000 cheaper. I think most owner, I don't even know if you'd have a job,

maybe you would, but most owners would be like, wait, what do you mean? He told somebody to

buy the car down the street that we had in stock, because it was $1,000 cheaper. Like,

are you kidding me? I just can't imagine that. And again, it comes down to you aren't giving

discounts to people you have a relationship with. The only thing they're gaining is your knowledge

base. And I just don't think that that's a relationship. I just think you're like doing your

job. Yeah. So for myself, and I keep going back to that, because I'm not, you know, going to sit

here and claim to be, you know, spokesman of all sales representatives. But for myself personally,

when I have a customer that comes back, there's two things that occur. They have a returning

customer gift. Now that gift would be their favorite bottle of wine. I'm not going to be

doing anything exorbitant for them. Of course, you know, a $250 gift card to their favorite

restaurant to take to their family out to. And I also have a personal referral plan.

So every person a gift, every returning customer. Okay. So they buy a second car

from them, you get them some type of gift. Yeah. And as well, like not to like a like that

worth the second car, because it's myself, like I'm the one that's paying for it, you know,

out of my own pocket. But yeah, no, I get some gift. I think that the every single customer

that comes back to me correct me if I'm wrong. I think in the first year, I didn't do it with

every single customer. It was really dependent because I was still building my army, my finances.

I was new and I wasn't selling as much and I have more be a current customer. So I have the

ability to comfortably offer that every single time. But yeah, every single customer that comes

back to me and every single customer as well, that's not bought for me or that

refers me somebody gets $100 by me as well. That's how I do it, but it's not industry stand. So

it's who are you building a relationship with? Yeah, I mean, I said, I can appreciate you doing

that. But I also make an argument on the same token. If you're able to afford to do that,

that means that they're probably not getting the best deal possible, right? Like I still,

I still think that we're talking about even a $250 gift card or bottle one, whatever that is,

like you can make an argument, they might be able to find the car cheaper. Yeah, I mean,

it really at the end of the day, if the car that I have, I've undergone everything about the vehicle

in terms of their needs, right? If someone says like, I really don't care about the drive, I'm

not going to talk to them about the placement of the engine and the transmission that they have,

you know, I'm going to speak about what matters to them and then contrast it to the other ones

that they have available in the market. And I'm referring to, of course, you know, in the new

vehicles, I'll contrast it to what's available in the market. I'll say, you know, this is their

price, it comes with ABC, ABC, and this is my price ABC, and this is XYZ's price under that. So

at the end of the day, I'm not there to convince the customer. They do make their own decision

at the end of the day. It's just my job to present them with, you know, and it's not me just, you

know, saying it to them, you know, I have my computer projecting onto a TV in my office,

I show them like this is, you know, on, you know, BMW's website, this is Toyota's website,

this is what they're working with. And if they ultimately make that decision themselves and say,

this is what I want, then yeah, I mean, the gift that I provide of their return is really just kind

of like, Hey, I appreciate you for thinking of me. It's not me, you know, dropping a large amount

of money on them. It's just a little like, Hey, I appreciate you. Thanks for coming back. Here's

that bottle of wine that you said, you know, three years ago, you really like, here it is.

Yeah, I like I said, I appreciate it. Like, it seems like you're good to car sales and I don't

want to say you're not. I just, I'm struggling to see the value consumers are getting versus, like,

again, they're not getting a better deal because you're not just giving a better deal. They might

get a bottle of wine or a gift card, which is nice, right? I appreciate you giving them something.

But like, it's not like you're taking care of them on the purchase themselves. It's not like, oh,

you bought in three cars, I'm going to give you, you know, triple net, because you bought in three

cars, you paid MSRP before. So now like the benefit is maybe a gift, like, and that's good. But like,

I just don't think that benefit outweighs anything they could just by doing research and using

competition, negotiate the price down instead. That's just like, I don't think you convinced me

that the relationship, that's just, that's just, and you're, you even admitted you're one off,

right? This isn't like the majority of the industry, you're talking about you in particular,

absolutely. Take care of people for a relationship. But you also admitted that you take care of people

you don't have a relationship with. It just seems like maybe you're a generally good person,

which is fine. It's great. Like, I appreciate that. But that doesn't mean like that relationship

is the reason this all happened. Yeah, no, for sure. I agree. And just to clarify as well, when I say,

take care of people who have not bought for me, like, if you just visit me and you say, Hey,

what's up? Yeah, no, cool car. See you later. You know, and it ends there. It's not, you know,

because over five years, I wouldn't be able to keep up with that. It's the customers that, you know,

you can just kind of tell when someone like likes you, so to speak. Like, I'm sure you've

patted and anyone else has experience as well as someone's like, Oh, yeah, no, I appreciate your

insight. I appreciate, you know, the time we spent together. And they show that appreciation,

whether it be verbally, through, you know, sending you a message once they've

completed their visit, you know, or a month later, blah, blah, blah. So it's the customers that make

that that match that effort that I put out there, the feeler, like I'll put out a feeler. And, you

know, if they don't want it, then that's, that's okay. You know, if they didn't like me, then

that's fine. You know, they're entitled to that. But, you know, customers that want to build a

relationship with me as a rep or with any person that they meet, you know, as you said, it's really

valuable. And I think we can argue that it's way more valuable to have a good relationship with a

technician, like a technician or an advisor in a garage, because they can directly discount your

labor costs, because it's their own, you know, their time, especially if they're the owner of

the garage. But no, it's ultimately it boils down to, in my opinion, and I do believe you're

right that, you know, it's not like they're getting a massive rebate on the vehicle, but that's a

dealership and manufacturers, in my opinion, responsibility to make better loyalty programs.

You know, as a rep, we can only do so much. And I think that, you know, many don't, but I do think

that the dealerships and the manufacturers need to foster better loyalty program for returning

customers. And I'm more, more deep dish, more, like you said, you know, more substantial, absolutely,

than than a bottle of wine or a gift card. I don't think it has to be loyalty programs. I just think

they need to be better. I think I think that one is making car buying easier. I shouldn't have to

think about any of this, Jacob, just to be frank, I shouldn't have to think of I have to have a

relationship with Jacob in order for me to have a good experience. I guess it should just be a good

experience. Like this should just be like, I should be able to buy a car in 10 clicks, be able to buy

it in five minutes. If that's what I want as the consumer, by one, a four hour experience, I should

have that as well. I should have options on the way that I want to buy a car. This is the second

biggest purchase that people make. It should be their choice on what that experience is. If that's

a five minute conversation or a four hour conversation, it shouldn't be a world where a

dealership controls that experiences that. I don't care about the loyalty discounts. I don't think

price is really consumers main goal. I think it's frustrating to buy a car. I think how long it takes

a car people don't like. And again, maybe your dealership is different with all of that. But

until we have a standardized process where I can buy a car in 10 clicks, I think that's the problem

we're having right now more than it is a loyalty program. Yeah, honestly, I do agree with you in

that regard. I think that something that is completely, completely weathered at this point

in where we are today, especially given all the access that we have and all the ease and technologies

that we have access to, I do think that the dealership should be losing some grasp and some power in

terms of how a transaction goes down. I think that at the end of the day, the customer is king.

They're the ones that are buying. They're the ones with the money. They're the ones that, you know,

the car is for them. So the buying experience should be tailored and made for them. So I completely

agree with you. I think that's the horrible weak point in this industry. And I very honestly,

just first and foremost, very, very grateful for what you offer to people. Honestly, I genuinely,

it's incredible what you do for people. It removes so much stress. I do it on occasion

for some family members, not obviously not the skill that you do it, but yeah, no, very, very,

very, very awesome job from you. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. I appreciate you

defending Andrea there and defending your point. It seems like you're doing some of the right things.

Well, look, thanks for taking my call and I'll be in the lives. And yeah, we'll end it there. I

definitely agree with your closing statement there. I think that there's a lot of work. And I think

that people like you are going to help bring that to light. So I hope you keep it up. Okay,

sounds good. Awesome. You too, bye. The car buying and home buying market are very similar in terms

of stress, price, gouging and financing. But the difference is that the home buying market,

at least in the home buying market isn't perfect. The home buyer market does have more transparency

when it comes down to actual commissions. You can negotiate that. Secondly, the industry isn't

villainizing you higher. Imagine if you tried to buy, hire a realtor and the

realtor industry was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't have anybody. It's illegal to hire a realtor

to represent and help you and advise you on that. It's illegal. So you got to do it on your own.

But don't worry, you can do the research, you can figure it out and you will do just fine.

But I'm going to jump off. I'm going to go eat some dinner. I'm going to hang out with Julianna.

Peace out. Bye-bye. Adios, amigos. Bye.

About this episode

Host Tommy goes head-to-head with Bailey, a veteran Lincoln salesman, to debate whether the traditional dealership model is fundamentally broken. Tommy argues that franchise laws artificially protect dealerships that fail to provide real consumer value, claiming services like vehicle prep are already reimbursed by manufacturers. Bailey defends the dealer profit margin, pointing to the hands-on service, vehicle transport, and crucial tech education provided to buyers, especially elderly customers. It is a fiery, unfiltered look at the friction between direct-to-consumer advocates and traditional dealership staff over what constitutes fair profit.

AutoNation book time Doug from Benz and Bowtie finance manager flat rate franchise laws Genesis Group 1 Automotive invoice price Lincoln

Dodge Challenger Honda Civic Honda CR-V Hyundai Genesis Jeep Grand Cherokee Lexus GX Toyota RAV4

Original notes

In this video I opened my live stream to car salespeople and industry insiders who disagree with me and gave them the floor to say whatever they wanted directly to my face.One by one they called in, made their case, and by the end of the conversation most of them ended up agreeing with me on the biggest problems in the industry.

The Price Isn’t Right: Car Negotiations w/ Delivrd

Delivrd

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