Exploring the intersection of architecture and customer experience, Josh Keough from Gensler discusses how dealership design impacts sales, service, and employee satisfaction. He emphasizes the importance of creating a welcoming environment that enhances both guest and employee experiences. Key insights include the significance of thoughtful layout, lighting, and furniture, as well as the evolving needs of dealerships in the age of electric vehicles. Keough shares practical tips for improving existing spaces without complete overhauls, highlighting the balance between aesthetics and functionality in automotive retail.
Do dealership buildings actually sell cars, or do they quietly kill the experience?
In this episode of The Dealer Playbook, we sit down with Josh Keough, Licensed Architect and Studio Director at Gensler, to unpack how dealership architecture, layout, and environment design directly impact sales efficiency, fixed ops performance, employee retention, and guest experience.
With more than 25 years of experience and 1,600+ sales and service locations designed worldwide, Josh shares how future-ready dealerships are being built to support:
Digital buying behavior
EV infrastructure and service realities
Faster yet more human customer journeys
Technician attraction and retention
Brand trust beyond logos and signage
This conversation challenges the idea that “buildings don’t sell cars” and reframes the dealership as a strategic tool, one that shapes behavior, emotion, workflow, and long-term profitability.
You’ll learn:
The difference between a customer experience vs. a guest experience
Why lighting, furniture, sound, and even smell influence buying decisions
How dealership layout impacts RO time, technician productivity, and retention
Why EV readiness is more about infrastructure and workflow than showrooms
Practical design upgrades dealers can make without tearing down their store
How to balance OEM brand standards with your dealership’s unique identity
Why great design must support people first, not just vehicles
If you’re thinking about your next renovation, EV transition, or how to stand out in a digital-first world, this episode will change how you view your building.
Who this episode is for:
Dealer Principals & Owners
General Managers & Fixed Ops Leaders
Automotive Architects & Designers
OEM Leadership Teams
Anyone responsible for dealership experience, culture, or long-term growth
Timestamps
0:00–2:37 Hook & why dealership design matters
2:37–5:10 Josh Keo’s background at Gensler & global automotive work
5:10–8:05 Customer experience vs. guest experience in dealerships
8:05–11:20 The three stakeholders every dealership building must serve
11:20–14:40 Why brand identity is more than logos & signage
14:40–18:10 Designing layouts to support different sales processes
"EV infrastructure. Is this something that's coming up often? I know that we've seen some dealerships that have charge stations and things of that nature, but what, what is maybe the bigger idea there that, that you would encourage people to be thinking about when it comes to EV?"
EV infrastructure is all the things needed to support electric cars, like charging stations where you can recharge the car's battery. It's important for making it easy for people to use electric vehicles.
EV infrastructure refers to the necessary systems and facilities that support electric vehicles, including charging stations and power supply networks. As electric vehicle adoption increases, the development of this infrastructure becomes crucial for ensuring convenience and accessibility for EV users.
"I know that we've seen some dealerships that have charge stations and things of that nature, but what, what is maybe the bigger idea there that, that you would encourage people to be thinking about when it comes to EV?"
Charging stations are places where you can plug in and recharge an electric car's battery. Just like gas stations for regular cars, these are important for electric cars to keep them running.
Charging stations are designated locations where electric vehicles can recharge their batteries. They can vary in charging speed and are essential for the widespread adoption of electric vehicles, providing convenience for users.
"making sure that you've got access throughout the base for even just 220 plugs, just a plug in a test charger. If you're"
220 plugs are special electrical outlets that can charge electric cars faster than regular outlets. They are important for quickly recharging the car's battery.
220 plugs refer to electrical outlets that provide a higher voltage than standard 110-volt outlets, allowing for faster charging of electric vehicles. These plugs are often used in home charging setups and commercial charging stations.
"...the worst thing I can ever see is when you go into a shop and they haven't, you know, that wasn't built with EV in mind..."
An EV, or electric vehicle, is a car that runs on electricity instead of gasoline. It uses batteries to power an electric motor, making it different from regular cars that use fuel.
EV stands for electric vehicle, which is a type of vehicle that is powered entirely or partially by electricity. Unlike traditional vehicles that rely on gasoline or diesel, EVs use electric motors and batteries for propulsion.
"...And then another one is battery storage and just thinking about that."
Battery storage is how we keep energy in batteries so it can be used later. For electric cars, it's important to store the battery correctly to keep it working well.
Battery storage refers to the systems and methods used to store energy in batteries for later use. In the context of electric vehicles, proper battery storage is crucial for maintaining battery health and performance.
"...we know hype, anything hype gets all of the attention. The Carvana is like, oh, Carvana just bought a store..."
Carvana is a company that sells used cars online. You can buy a car from them without going to a traditional dealership, and they even have machines that look like vending machines where you can pick up your car.
Carvana is an online used car retailer that allows customers to buy, sell, or trade vehicles through a digital platform. They have gained attention for their unique car vending machines and home delivery services.
"...another CDJR store and this and that and look at all of these digital retailers..."
Digital retailers are companies that sell cars online instead of in physical stores. They make it easier for people to shop for cars from home.
Digital retailers in the automotive space refer to online platforms that facilitate the buying and selling of vehicles, often streamlining the process compared to traditional dealerships. This trend is growing as consumers increasingly prefer online shopping experiences.
"...people wanting to come in and kick tires and test drive and whatnot..."
A test drive is when you get to drive a car before you decide to buy it. It's a way to see if you like how the car feels and performs.
A test drive is an opportunity for potential car buyers to drive a vehicle before making a purchase decision. It allows them to assess the car's performance, comfort, and features firsthand.
"...people wanting to come in and kick tires and test drive and whatnot..."
Tire kicking means looking at cars and checking them out without really planning to buy one right away. It's like window shopping for cars.
Tire kicking is a colloquial term used to describe the act of browsing or inspecting vehicles without the intention of making an immediate purchase. It often involves physically checking the car's condition and features.
"...maybe negotiate or whatever it might be and the investment in a beautiful space and workflow..."
Negotiation is when you talk to the seller to try to agree on a price for the car. You might try to get a better deal than what they first offer.
Negotiation in the car buying process refers to the discussions between the buyer and seller to agree on a price for the vehicle. This can involve haggling over the price, trade-in values, and financing terms.
"...ou can create your own mix. And they had two zero gravity like those high end massage chairs that you like..."
The Lucid Gravity is a new electric SUV that focuses on luxury and comfort. It's designed to be very high-tech and has special seats that can make you feel like you're floating, similar to some fancy massage chairs. This car is part of a trend where companies are making electric cars that are not just good for the environment but also really nice to ride in.
The Lucid Gravity is an upcoming luxury electric SUV from Lucid Motors, known for its high-performance capabilities and advanced technology. It aims to compete with other premium electric vehicles by offering spacious interiors, cutting-edge features, and impressive range. The mention of 'zero gravity' likely refers to its innovative seating design that enhances comfort during long drives.
Select text to request an explanation
There's a difference between a customer experience and a guest experience.
And I haven't thought this deeply about the role that the architecture, the tone that it sets for
a guest experience, bring me inside of the thought process. When you're either like designing an
experience, what are some things that you're thinking about that translate very much so to
what a guest will feel once they come inside that operation? So think about the building having kind
of each one of these facilities has three key sets of stakeholders. The number one stakeholder is
the people who work there, the dealer team. I've done thousands of buildings and you know,
you talk with dealers saying, oh, buildings, don't sell cars. Well, no, people do. And the
building is a tool to help create that environment and help your people do their best work.
For those that are listening, are we suggesting, hey, this is like you got to tear your showroom
apart and start over? Because I think a lot of dealers are, they're like, hey, I just recently
invested in this space. What are some generalized, maybe common tweaks you would recommend to say,
hey, if you just focused on these two or three things, you could improve any showroom or,
you know, shop, what would you recommend somebody consider? The couple of things that
really always seem to stick out. One of the things that I enjoy most about producing the
Playbook is hearing from you the messages that I get of people who are getting so much value out of
the podcast, applying it to their day to day workflows and finding a thriving career right
here in the retail auto industry. It means the world to me. And you know, one of the ways that
we make doing this possible is through my agency Flex Dealer. And of course, in the spirit of
providing value, I think this is a perfect time to head over to www.flexdealer.com to show even
further support for you, my beloved DPB gang. Right now, if you go to my website, flexdealer.com,
you can get a full free PDF of my number one bestselling book, Don't Wait Dominate.
And the reason I think it's so special is that a lot of the topics that are discussed in this book
are even more relevant today than ever with this surge in popularized AI and people wondering,
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in this book. And so I'd love to be able to offer you a free copy of this. If you go to
flexdealer.com, it would mean the world to me because that is how we continue to produce this show for you.
Josh Keo is a licensed architect and studio director at Gensler, where he leads the retail
and consumer experience practice with a strong focus on automotive retail and future ready
environments with over 25 years of experience and more than 1600 sales and service locations
shaped worldwide. He helps car dealerships and brands design space that keeps pace with digital
shifts, EV adoption and changing buyer behavior. Josh, thanks so much for joining me on the dealer
playbook. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to get into this. Recently, I was in Kazakhstan
doing some consulting out there for their automotive industry, which they consider a new
industry. Obviously Kazakhstan's a 30 year old country. And so they really are very interested
in how retail automotive in particular has this cascading effect on building a country.
It got me thinking about the concept of building and architecture. Why? Because,
well, we toured 30 dealerships while I was there. I was on the ground three days,
we went to 30 different dealerships. I'm telling you, man, I have never walked into more beautiful,
thought out, vibey, sophisticated dealerships in my life. Like,
I, they all had coffee shops with baristas, full time baristas and beautiful seating and all these
different things. And what it got me to think of is, oh, there's a difference between a customer
experience and a guest experience. And I haven't thought this deeply about the role that the
architecture sets, the tone that it sets for a guest experience. From all of the work that you do,
bring me inside of the thought process. When you're either designing an experience or
something to do with the operation, the brand, what are some things that you're thinking about
that translate very much so to what a guest will feel once they come inside that operation?
So think about the building having kind of, each one of these facilities has
three key sets of stakeholders, two of which are live and in person in the building and one of
whom is by adjacency. The number one stakeholder is the people who work there, the dealer team.
Obviously, you know, this, I've done thousands of buildings and, you know, you talk with dealers,
oh, buildings don't sell cars. Well, no, people do. And the building is a tool to help create that
environment and help your people do their best work. Second are those guests, the people who
are spending their time in there during the purchase process, during the service process.
And God willing, if everything goes right, they're coming back over and over again for what is,
hopefully, a nice quick in and out. And they're treated well while they're there. And then the
third, of course, is the brand who don't obviously occupy the space as people apart from, you know,
the occasional visit. But obviously, the brand identity is very important as well in keeping
up with that standard. Now, I think, you know, the work that you do is approached from a pretty
unique vantage point in that you are not just thinking about the architecture, you're thinking
about the brand, you're building brand. And I think a lot of a lot of times in our space,
especially in retail auto, oh, dude, I'm going to lose people on this one. But it's like,
the brand is the fancy car silhouette logo, like everything always ends up becoming about the logo.
What are the misconceptions or misunderstandings you encounter when it comes to brand identity and
the downstream effect of that brand identity? So every brand that we work with, I can tell you,
is coming to the table thinking about that entire holistic experience. We've got brand
clients that even get down to as much as, hey, the shop should be this wide, because it'll take
two seconds less to get into a bay and it'll take the RO time down. So it's not just about
the logo up front. I mean, they really are the brands and we by extension are thinking about
the entire lifecycle of the customer's journey, both in front of and not in front of their vehicle.
And of course, all the people inside the building working on said vehicle.
The place where we often see points of friction obviously is when you have dealers who have very
strong brands of their own. And so how do you find the right place to get, okay, this is where
this needs to be about the brand here. And this needs to be about your brand over here. And how
do we do that? Partly through process, but partly through, okay, yes, you can put a sign over here,
you can do this, you've got this key thing, you have a popcorn machine, you do fresh baked
cookies, things like that. We always find a way to work that in because everybody's got their
way that they treat their guests when they come into the building. That's really interesting
that you're saying they're thinking about it as a whole. Because that's the number one thing I think
people should be hearing from this is you're thinking often in not you, the audience in general,
when we hear this, this misconception, you're thinking about something in isolation, hoping
that that will that one thing in isolation, the logo, the typeface, the colors, the whatever,
will be the catalyst for why so many people want to do business for you. And it sounds to me like
what you sell that the side effect of this is the experience as a whole, not just for
the guests, but for the people who basically have to live there for eight, nine, 10 hours a day.
Think about your modern buying experience. Everybody's going and doing all their research.
They know they come into the store knowing that dealer A has three versions of the same car that
they want to look at dealer B has two or three. But which one is more convenient to them? Which
one is going to treat them right? And which one is going to have the experience that they want to
come back to? And so yes, you have to have the brand needs to be exemplified throughout the
building. It needs to be consistent across all branches. And this is true across all retail.
We do a lot of retail and this is a typical of all retail environments. But in the end,
what happens beyond the branding, when you get into how you lay out the building supporting
the process, how does it, you know, every dealer sells differently. Every dealer does, you know,
do you do you have traditional where they go to a sales desk, sit with the sales associate,
then eventually go to a traditional F and I office? Or is it one of these ones where they
sit at a table and everybody rotates around you like you're the sun and everybody comes to you?
Or is it single point of contact? So we the building has to support whatever the dealer's
goals are there in the way that they do their operations. We also get into many situations
where dealers are remember talent acquisition and retention is a huge, huge, huge aspect of what we
do. We've got dealers that say, you know what, I like the open sales office areas, but I'm trying
to get people to build a career here. And if I don't give them their own desk or their own office,
they don't feel like they have this this lifelong career opportunity here. Back into the building,
I mean, you know, how you treat the technicians and they're never enough texts. And so how do we
set things up so that they're taken care of? And they have the tools that they need. They
have the space that they need. It's comfortable. It's well lit, well conditioned, etc.
I love that you're bringing technicians kind of this, you know, proverbial back of house,
if you will. I love always the internal debates to it's like, yeah, but if it wasn't for us, then
you wouldn't have consistent revenue. And like, I love the, the like,
heckling that goes on back and forth. But you've, you've brought up now the back of the house a
couple of times fixed operations, which I think is so important. First, you mentioned impact,
potential positive impact on RO, number of RO's. And you're also talking about treating the technicians
well, giving them an environment that, you know, they feel inspired to work in, especially when
nobody can get their hands on enough technicians these days.
I mean, that's true in any industry and any space that we work, talent acquisition,
just making sure there's space, even, even the simple thought of in any retail environment of
an offstage space where not everything goes perfectly. And sometimes you just need to go
behind a door and maybe say a few, you know, unsavory words and need a space to blow off some
steam. And we, we try to work that into everything that we do. And, you know, dealerships are no
different than any other retail environment or hospitality environment. How do you sell this?
So for example, you said earlier, to support the dealer's business goals. And what I find often is
that dealers are like, my business goals is I want to sell more cars. It seems like there must be a
really in depth investigation, like to, to peel back the onion layers on that and say, well,
yeah, obviously we all want to sell more cars or we all want to be able to service more vehicles,
but let's peel. What are you looking at to help reframe that business outcome to say, yeah,
let's get a little more granular than that? So we typically come in, you know, we've been,
we've been doing this for a long time. And we typically come in with a set of questions that
presuppose that there is a different way of doing business. And so, and the answer might be no,
I'm traditional. I want this many deaths. I want this many FNI offices, this many lists,
but some of them might come back to you and say, no, you know what, we do, we do business
differently here. And I really want to think about this. And I love nothing more than we get
into a conversation with a dealer and they've kind of got their program figured out, you know,
in terms of architecture program for us is the numbers, the who's, the what's, the where's.
And when you start getting into discussion with them and they go, you know what, that wouldn't
be a bad idea if we had this or and also we start getting into the, hey, buildings last 20,
30 years and you might have to reskin this a couple of times, but let's plan ahead for this
future. What's your pie in the sky thought about where you're going to be in 10, 20 years?
Is that enough offices for you? You know, that you don't have to have a paycheck right now
and a person who sits in that space, but do you want to have that space to grow into when the
time comes? Yeah, I just, I love those discussions. I'm also thinking about now the implication of
EV infrastructure. Is this something that's coming up often? I know that we've seen some
dealerships that have charge stations and things of that nature, but what, what is maybe the bigger
idea there that, that you would encourage people to be thinking about when it comes to EV?
You know, the interesting thing is EV has, from what we've seen so far, EV doesn't actually have
to have that much of an impact on the layout of the built environment. It's more of an
infrastructure question. You want to make sure that you've got, first of all, charging for
customers and everybody says, oh, you know, I want to have a charger for when a customer pulls up.
It's a nice to have, but really where you need the chargers are charging up a guest vehicle
before you hand it back to them, charging it up if you're testing something, making sure that you've
got access throughout the base for even just 220 plugs, just a plug in a test charger. If you're
just trying to test the battery, making sure that you've got, I mean, the worst thing I can ever see
is when you go into a shop and they haven't, you know, that wasn't built with EV in mind
and you've got the vehicle up on the hoist and you've got the tensor barrier down underneath it and
and the battery is sitting on the tray table underneath the car and the technicians there
with the headlamp working underneath the vehicle as opposed to with an open bay next to them with
the good lighting and everything where they can get there. You have to think about dust and outside
air access, which is especially tough like, you know, Southwestern dealerships, things like that.
We do a lot of work in the Middle East as well. And they try to hermetically seal the dealers from
the stores from the 120 degree heat, but making sure that you've got a clean environment to work in,
electrical capacity. And then another one is battery storage and just thinking about that.
And some of the manufacturers have tackled this, some of them don't want to go there yet.
The insurance companies are kind of taking the lead. But, you know, thinking about go out back
with a kind of a standalone pod kind of a thing is probably the easiest solution or something on
the outside of the building. Every manufacturer is treating it differently because everybody's a
little worried about, you know, what could happen with, you know, the worst case scenario with
batteries and everybody trains for it. And so you just try to think around, OK, what could happen?
And how do we prevent that from being a catastrophe in the small chance that it could happen?
Hey, does your marketing agency suck? Listen, before we hop back into this episode,
I know you know me as the host of the Dealer Playbook, but did you also know that I'm the CEO
of Flex Dealer, an agency that's helping dealers capture better quality leads from local SEO
and hyper-targeted ads that convert? So if you want to sell more cars and finally have a partner
that's in it with you that doesn't suck, visit flexdealer.com. Let's hop back into this episode.
I find this so fascinating. By the way, my audience knows I consider myself the first student
like, and I'm a ferocious note taker. And every time you say something, I'm like, oh my gosh,
I need to ask about this because, you know, with me, I think, first of all, you just,
you just you just rapid fired things that I would never in a million years think of.
So thank you for being the guy that thinks of these things. The impact on flow, the impact on
logistics, the impact on placement, the impact on movement, like just the movement of
how people interact with their environment equals efficient operation. I have to ask you,
maybe this is kind of a fun side question here. I have to imagine somebody with your vantage
point and your expertise and working globally walks into some businesses and says this place
has it all wrong. Like, are you able like, so I have a past life in the music industry as a sound
engineer. And there's sometimes I listen to music, especially the more modern stuff. And I'm like,
created on an iPad, I can hear it, you know, and I kind of become like, if only they would have,
and I don't know why the first example that came to my mind was Best Buy. I'm like, if Josh walks
into a Best Buy, are you going like, man, if they just like did this or change that, like,
what are some things that you would call out that you're like, I just know that would improve
the overall experience of this place. There's there's a lot of conception and a lot of
both an automotive and non automotive that sometimes shoving more product into the display area is
going to make it better. And that is not always true. I mean, think about when you go into,
you know, I went into a major department store chain, my wife and I were doing some cleaning,
we found a gift card from return from years ago and said, Oh, geez, you know, and I need X,
I'm going to go to this store and I'm going to use this card. And I'm walking through the store
and the racks are overstuffed. There's more, more stuff on the racks than the racks can hold.
They're a little close together. So you're shimmying between them. And then as you start,
you know, up here in the north, you start to get into wearing the extra layers. And all of a
sudden, your coat is grabbing things on the on the rack and you're knocking things on the floor.
And, you know, the idea that you you want less can be more that you can walk into a space. And
if you have room to move around, that is a luxury. I mean, that is something that's a that's one of
those subconscious kind of luxuries. And sometimes a store like a Best Buy might overstuff the floor.
And, and, and there are no different than many other stores out there. So I don't want to just
pick on them. I love it's maybe it's the Italian in me. I'm like, I'm picking on somebody right now.
But, but I hear what you're saying, because it's similar to this experience. I was just in a department
store. And I thought I was going into like, I thought I knew I was going into buys, you know,
whatever it was, a couple pairs of pants or whatever it might be. But it was the same thing.
It was there was so much stock everywhere that I actually felt defeated before I even started
looking. It turned me off. I walked out with nothing. And, and it was weird. It was a weird
level of and this was just on the weekend Saturday. I walked out feeling dissatisfied
by the design because of the desire I had to want to buy something there. And I walked out with
nothing. It was a weird, weird mind warp. And you bringing up that example just made me surface
that we see this, you know, you brought it up, you see it in dealerships. I mean, for those that
are listening, I don't are we suggesting, Hey, this is like, you got to tear your showroom apart
and start over. Because I think a lot of dealers are, they're like, Hey, I just recently invested
in this space. It's, it's the OEM approved layout. And, you know, we're trying to just do the best
that we can. What are some generalized, maybe common tweaks you would recommend to say, Hey,
if you just focused on these two or three things, you could improve any showroom or, or,
you know, shop or, or whatever. I know that's kind of a generalized blanket statement,
but I know the audience is leaning in saying, Okay, I've got a store. It's still new ish built,
you know, we refooled it in 2012. And so it's still okay, but like we've gotten into our
comfort zone with it, but we want to improve the experience, marrying that, I guess, second to
this idea that so much in our industry is moving to digital. What would you recommend somebody
consider? So I'll answer the question first by talking to that last point you made,
all the numbers that we've seen ever since the onslaught of online financing, pre-approvals,
things like that. This is the second largest purchase anybody's ever going to make next to
their home. They still want to come in and kick the tires that, you know, we can, we can talk
about carbon and all those all day, but that's a minority of customers, the vast majority of
people still want to come in, want to see the car, they want to kick the tires, they want to test
drive it. So the built environment does matter. To answer your first question, the couple things
that really always seem to stick out. Lighting is a big one. And the best way I'll think about this
is think about, and I'll pick on a retailer that no longer exists to make it easy. Unfortunately,
it was a hometown retailer that no longer exists, but Kmart, think about an old Kmart store with
just rows and rows and rows of exposed fluorescent tubes and that flat kind of boring light. And
I'll think about walking into a Target store and they have the lighting in the ceiling,
but they also have brought some lighting down to the displays and they've made just different
kind of moods in different areas. And it just has a much more modern feel and it's really kind of a
low hanging fruit. Another thing is furniture. It's, furniture is expensive. And there's no
question about it, you know, professional grade furniture, like the chairs that either one of
ours is sitting in right now, they're not cheap. And dealers think to themselves, just like you
think about when you built your kitchen, man, I spent this much on this thing. And it's like,
how can it be out of stock? But when it starts to wear down, when the fabric is starting to
get worn, and sometimes even just from a style perspective, we do find a lot of our OEM clients
are looking at loosening up furniture restrictions to just be, you know, hey, we need this kind of
general look, or if they're getting specific, this kind of classic piece, especially in
some of the luxury environments, they go for the classic kind of mid-century modern stuff
that hopefully is a little more timeless. But those those two things are really, they're kind
of the low hanging fruit of the whole thing. And probably, especially furniture probably needs
to be replaced on a more regular cadence than buildings need to be updated, which, you know,
the typical retail cycle, the building is seven to 10 years, not just automotive and just retail in
general, you're looking at seven to 10 years is kind of the industry norm. And automotive has
actually stretched that out to 10. And some are now getting into the, okay, if you do an
upkeep program with us, maybe we'll get you to 15, that kind of thing, because they understand
the impact of the cost. I was going to ask you about this, because I think I am not a designer,
but I am an enthusiast, it fascinates me, I like good design. I've noticed a trend now,
you brought up mid century, and that triggered this thought, which is, I mean, a lot of them are
moving to this mid century, you know, and almost, dare I say, kind of loungey, you know, the cognac
color, the, the, you know, wood grains that yeah, they're at which I love, I mean, I've got two arm
chairs over here that are that style. How do you, how do you get a sense of the trends shifting
fast enough to make sure that there's going to be a good life cycle to them? Like, you know,
you said seven to 10 years, what if I'm on like year nine, and we do this whole thing,
and like two years from now, it's like man cave vibes out, wood grains out, we're going steel
and granite. I am probably the worst person to answer that question. And I'll tell you why,
to be completely honest with you, I am, I learned on day one of architecture school that I am not
a star designer. And I thought, okay, I'm going to be more of a technical guy. And then I got out
into the workforce and I went, oh, man, like the details and everything, these are important. I work
with some great people who can do some great stuff. But I found myself, I'm a project manager, I like
the space solving problems, I like the client relationship side, but I am surrounded by and
have wonderful colleagues that are that definitely have their finger on the pulse of that stuff more
than me. And so they will work with our clients and we will work together. And they'll say to me,
hey, you know, this thing, this is probably good for another five to 10 years. Or you know what,
this is already starting to kind of get past the, you know, Fonsi's just landing the bike here,
you know, we're, we're, you know, maybe, maybe we need to move on to something that we're playing
planning ahead for the next one. I mean, that's a great answer. I think, I think that makes a lot
of sense. I'm always so just so fascinated by it. Because these are, I mean, we're not,
these are not small investments. Like you said, I mean, furniture is just scratching the surface
and it gets way more expensive from there. But I am, I noticed, you know, back to back to Kazakhstan,
a lot of these showrooms were very modern in like good use of texture. It was like,
this wall was like a polished concrete kind of look. And this wall was some sort of like,
I don't know, wood, something, the furniture was very mid-century modern, a lot of the aesthetic.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, this, this is expensive. And then you retriggered the thought
when you said mid-century. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I, I, you know, I don't want to be the
dealership that still has like cherry wood stained, you know, furniture, because like that's a tell,
you know, it's like the cherry wood veneer on the desk, but the desktop is like forest green.
And you're like, Oh, well, back to your point about second largest purchase next to a home. And
I'm buying it from a place that looks like an accounting firm from 1991.
That it's, it's a, it's a definite concern. And we actually see this come up a lot too in
multi-generational environments. You'll sometimes get, I mean, think about, you know,
I'll bring up the kitchen renovation example, you know, we had a neighbor years ago who,
they were wonderful and they did this wonderful kitchen renovation in the 80s.
And when they sold their house in 2010, they were aghast at the notion that somebody was going to
pull that 30 year old kitchen out and redo it because they were thinking about how much they
spent on it. And I have seen that time and again with, with older generation, when you have the
first, second, third generation dealers, and you've got second, third and fourth generation are
starting to come and take over, especially in these family environments is sometimes you will see
a little bit of dad, mom, we need to pull that out. Like that's not, and, and, and you have to
kind of step back and let them have that discussion together and let the manufacturer come in and talk
and, and it typically the ones that were, where we're the architect of record working directly
for the dealer. We don't see that as much, but I have seen it a number of times in, in, especially
in small and medium sized markets. As we start to kind of transition here to, to the end of the
conversation, I have a couple more questions for you. Talk to me about, we touched on it a little
bit earlier, but I want to, I want to extract a little bit more here. You had brought up the three
kind of aspects, the people who work there, the guests experience and then the brand identity
part of this thing. When we talk practicality and tying all of this to kind of tangible
results that, that the dealer or the operation can see. Tell me a little bit about the things
you're observing when, when the people who work at the dealership are finding that their work is
becoming more efficient. What are some of those shifts that, that you guys have implemented that
the dealer was like, that improved us and, and as a result, people enjoy coming to work here more
or like whatever the outcome might be. Do you have some examples of that? Well, there's, there's
some intangibles, just the straight up notion that when in any environment, not just retail,
not just automotive, in any environment, when you invest in your facilities and people go,
that's an investment in me. I mean, that's, that's, we're seeing that across where we do a lot of
workplace at my firm as well. And we have this global standard called the workplace survey.
And we start to see the feedback that we get from the occupants that move into those spaces.
I can't tell you how many times I've had dealers go, all right, the manufacturer, I have to do the
showroom, I have to do all this, but behind that closed door in the business office back there,
I'm not required to do it. So I'm not going to do everything. And by the time their construction
documents come across our desk, they've decided to renovate that space as well, because they said,
well, wait a minute, I can't make this investment for the people who are out on stage, and not for
the people who are sitting back here in what is hopefully not a windowless room in the back.
Other things that we'll do too is to address that issue. Try to make sure that the business
office is, guess what, the people who spend more time at their desks than any people in the store
are the admin office. And if we can't get them natural light and a pleasant space to work in,
because they're not often moving around like the salespeople are, like the technicians are,
you know, and to a certain extent, the service advisors are. So it's just fundamentally making
pleasant spaces to occupy. Obviously, the guest experience is one thing, but the guest has a
temporal experience there. And you want them to be taken care of and comfortable, but you want to
make sure that the environment that the people who are hosting them is working in is working for
them because that makes them more engaged in the process as well. Also to this, and this is kind
of a carryover to that, I think the guest experience. So much of what we talk about feels like,
dare I say, a luxury thing. It's like, oh, nice furniture and nice space, inspiring to look at
artwork, all the different things. But there is a very real outcome that happens when people come
into a place that feels appropriate to the amount they're about to invest. One of those
things I think we haven't really talked about is smell, like odor. I've been in dealerships that
smell like a mechanic shop. And then I contrast that against what I think, and you'd be probably
the right guy to ask, but I would think like Las Vegas casinos, like before you hit the casino
floor, you walk in, it's like they all have a signature aroma that is in there. Is that an
actual thing? Are they like pumping smell? Absolutely. It is absolutely a thing and it is
something that is not to be trifled with and taken lightly because it is easy to screw up.
So you want to have a smell that especially the luxury brands we work with definitely work with
this space. And it's something that you just put in an emitter that goes in the HVAC system and
there's cartridges. And the key is getting the right balance so that it calms you, it smells right,
but it's not overbearing. My wife and I a few years ago went into a chain hotel that I won't
name in a relatively fluid area. And we walked in and my wife's like, if our room smells like this,
I can't stay here because they had just overdone it and it really, it can be done wrong. So you have
to be very intentional about A, what the smell is and B, making sure that the HVAC setup is right
and it's appropriate so that you don't overdo it. But it can be a very effective tool. There's all
sorts of studies done throughout retail and hospitality. It can be a very effective tool at
kind of resetting the guest experience, kind of calming them just like lighting, just like music,
all of those things kind of work in tandem. I was thinking about it because you said,
you know, people, largely the data is showing people still want to come into dealerships,
which I think a lot of the listeners and viewers of the show are going to find comforting because
obviously we know hype, anything hype gets all of the attention. The Carvana is like, oh, Carvana
just bought a store, you know, another CDJR store and this and that and look at all of these digital
retailers. Your point about people wanting to come in and kick tires and test drive and
whatnot. Is there any bearing, especially in a digital environment where we're continually
being told people want a shorter, shorter, shorter, shorter experience, contrasting that too, but I
want a tire kick and I do want a test drive and I do want to, you know, maybe negotiate or whatever
it might be and the investment in a beautiful space and workflow. Like, do people actually want
a faster experience or do they just want a better experience? They still want a faster experience.
I mean, you think about the days, you know, the old days when you'd go in and the heaps of documents
that you had to go through and everything and sometimes the process could be four hours.
That's a bit much. I mean, I don't want to sit in a luxury hotel lobby for four hours either.
But so both things are true. People do want a faster experience, but there's no reason that the
couple of hours that they're going to spend during the sales environment, during the sales
transaction, God willing, only a couple of hours, but then extend that on to service. You know,
not everybody's doing mobile service and not every customer wants that. Sometimes a nice
appointment. I mean, I've got an appointment with my dealer this Friday. I know I'm going to spend
about 45 minutes to an hour at the store. I know what I'm getting in for. I'm going to sit in their
place and then they're going to treat me well. And to your earlier point, there are things where I
go, man, they could have done that better. They could have done this better, but they've done
all these other things really well. And their people are great, which is why I go there.
And you still want the space to be good, even though you don't want to have to spend as much
time there. Right. Yeah. And it's funny you say that because I recently bought a new truck.
And I was particularly excited by how fast they got me through everything. In fact, I said,
I'm going to do everything up front. I don't want to test drive it because I've already driven this
truck. I basically want to roll in and sign paperwork. While we were there, that was delightful
how quickly they got me through. And then I looked to the service area, Josh, and they had
the soda machine, like where you can create your own mix. And they had two zero gravity
like those high end massage chairs that you like basically sit inside of. And I said to my wife,
I was like, yo, we're coming. Yeah, this is going to be awesome. Guess what though, we show up for
our first service appointment. It's as busy as the DMV. And we're like, Oh my gosh, nobody's in the
massage chairs. Let's roll because I was a decided we were like the cords were cut.
The chairs didn't work. And now all of a sudden we were stuck sitting at a high top
surrounded by 478,000 people also getting their car service and it instantly
it instantly changed my whole perception. I'm like, man, they really stuck the landing here
and they really screwed up over here. They teased you. I mean, if you're going to take that,
if you're going to have that chair on the floor and it's not going to be plugged in or the cords
cut, you definitely need to just pull it off the floor and not tease people with that thing coming
there. And again, this comes down to process too. I mean, the dealer I just described that I go to,
they do a really nice job of scheduling. And if I do an appointment kind of mid afternoon and
bust out of work a couple hours early and go by there, I usually never have to wait more than
one person deep in the service lane. I'm in and out about an hour, hour and a half,
you know, no must no fuss. And if there is a problem, if they say, Hey, we got to do some
more stuff here, we can we get your ride somewhere? You know, they just that's that's process right
there. I mean, that's the building is to take care of the people who have to be waiting there.
The things stuff full, you know, like a DMV, that's that's, that's a process thing so much
more than anything. Well, man, I'm so glad we're able to connect. You've expanded my view of what's
possible. So I want to thank you for joining me on the show. How can those listening and watching
connect with you? You can go to our website, Gensler.com G E N S L E R. You can find me on
LinkedIn. Always always up for a chat that way. And I look forward to talking to anybody who wants
to talk. Awesome, man. Josh Kio. Thanks so much for joining me on the dealer playbook. Thank you.
Hey, thanks for listening to the dealer playbook podcast. If you enjoyed tuning in, please subscribe,
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Check back next week for a new dealer playbook episode. Thanks so much for joining.
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