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Does Porsche Mileage Matter? Garage Queens vs Road Warriors
Does Porsche Mileage Matter? Garage Queens vs Road Warriors
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About this episode
Exploring the debate between low and high mileage Porsches, Will and Derek dive into the emotional and financial implications of driving versus preserving these iconic cars. They share personal stories about their own mileage milestones and the community's mixed reactions to driving versus garage-queening. The conversation touches on how ownership goals evolve over time, the psychological aspects of mileage, and the differences in value perception between classic and modern Porsches. The episode also hints at the future of EVs in the Porsche lineup and their unique depreciation dynamics.
Topics:
mileage debate
garage queens vs road warriors
emotional value of cars
ownership goals
depreciation dynamics
classic vs modern Porsches
EV battery concerns
community opinions
personal ownership experiences
Cars:
BMW 3 Series
BMW M3
Porsche 911
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Macan
Porsche Panamera
Porsche Taycan
Toyota Supra
How much does mileage really matter on a Porsche? This week on Rennthusiast Radio, Derek and Will dig into the age-old debate: Are you better off with a low-mileage “garage queen” or a high-mileage “driver” that’s been loved and used? We break down the psychology behind Porsche odometers, why some owners obsess over the 20k, 80k, and 100k milestones, and how value, condition, and maintenance all play into the equation.
We also talk about:
-Why some Porsches gain romance at 200k+ miles
-The concept of “free Porsche miles” between 40k–80k
-How older air-cooled cars vs newer water-cooled cars change the mileage conversation
-Why EVs flip the script (miles vs charge cycles)
-The balance between ROI and pure driving joy
Whether you baby your 911, daily your Boxster, or are hunting for your first Porsche, this episode will change how you think about mileage.
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Porsche 911
"...11 After 9, I posted last week a review on a 2005 911 Turbo S, one of the rarest turbos out there, onl..."
Car
BMW E46
"...Like my first collectible fun play car, it was an E46 M3, I think it was a 2002 maybe, M3, and it was ..."
Car
BMW M3
"... my first collectible fun play car, it was an E46 M3, I think it was a 2002 maybe, M3, and it was a c..."
Car
Toyota A90
"993, I'm starting to not care. Even though the difference between a 90 or 100,000 mile 993 is different than a car with 200,000 miles."
Car
Porsche Boxster
"Right. But your 997 or maybe my 013 Boxster, it matters more to me. And I don't think it has..."
Car
Porsche Taycan
"...ell into what's it been, five, six years with the Taycan. You have the Macan EV that you've driven or bee..."
Car
Porsche Macan
"...n, five, six years with the Taycan. You have the Macan EV that you've driven or been driven in as well. ..."
Car
Porsche Cayenne
"It's got to be 15 years. The Cayenne that I have here at the house came in a hybrid in..."
Car
Porsche Panamera
"...he house came in a hybrid in 2012. You can get a Panamera Hybrid 2012. I look at a car like that, right, t..."
Select text to request an explanation
Welcome to Renthusiast Radio, the podcast where Will and Derek navigate the winding
roads of Porsche Obsession, exploring the good and the bad of Porsche ownership.
Grab your favorite beverage, pull up a chair, and join us, Renthusiast Radio, because life's
too short not to talk about Porsches.
Welcome to Renthusiast Radio.
I'm Will.
And I'm Derek.
And today's topic is about a concept that maybe on its face is a little bit like simplistic
or maybe that's not the right word.
You will wonder how much there is to talk about when we get into today's topic, but
the more Derek and I batted it around, we realized like there's a lot to talk about
here and that is the very simple concept of mileage on your Porsche.
And we're going to be talking about the low mileage examples versus the higher mileage
examples and the thought process and opinions in the community about both.
So I think it'll be fun then.
I mean, I know for me, whenever I turn over a significant milestone when I'm driving
one of my cars, I have to slow down to get the speedometer needle to drop and inevitably
I grab a picture.
So recently I turned over 70.
Yeah, man.
And so I just turned over 70 on my 993 and like I had to get the picture.
So Derek, that's the setup, man.
Do you want to invite some folks to follow along?
Fantastic video that you posted probably about a week and a half ago on Renthusiast YouTube
channel with your 997 versus 991 comparison.
It has done very well because I think it really speaks to a topic of a lot of people where
they're like, am I going to go old school Porsche or new school Porsche?
And then we did a podcast last week as a companion to that.
And that also, from a comment standpoint, really kicked the hornet's nest a little bit
in terms of people really jumping in.
On my YouTube channel, 11 After 9, I posted last week a review on a 2005 911 Turbo S, one
of the rarest turbos out there, only 500 examples.
And it was a really fantastic car to drive.
It's actually for sale up in New England and the gentleman who has it up for sale already
has multiple people coming to him looking for it.
It's that kind of rare car.
It's a really, really cool example.
So please go check that out.
And then finally, Will, I did want to mention for any folks that are down in the southeast
of the United States or traveling to the southeast of the United States in the first week of
October, Will and I are going to be down at Lufka Colt and we will be checking out the
cars there.
I'm going to go spend some time with my buddy from North Carolina and encourage anyone who's
down there.
Come on over and say hi.
I'm looking forward to meeting some of the folks that have already mentioned to me over
email that they're going to be down there and grab a cup of coffee and whatnot.
And Derek is dragging his Albert Blue long hood down on a trailer to actually to drive
on some real roads in the mountains.
So I can't wait.
I can't wait to see your skills, my friend.
Well, I'm going to be in the back of the run group, but I'm going to do my best to keep
up, I promise.
Amen.
So let's start talking about mileage here, man.
I just alluded to this.
I turned 70,000 miles over in my 1995, 993 and I posted it in a Facebook group that I
created called Renthousias Portia Fans, pretty active group full of people with many opinions.
And I just like, you know, I'm a little bit creative and so I snagged a picture of the
odometer and I combined it with a picture of the car, a vanity shot and posted it and
I said, hey, it's with mixed emotions that I just got out of the 60s and now I just turned
over 70,000 miles in this car and I firmly believe in driving my cars.
And so I'm not somebody who's got this garage queen and I keep the cars stashed and I sweat
even taking them to the store.
But Derek, I've owned a lot of these, I put a lot of miles on them.
You just, I mean, in a 70,000 mile example of a 95,993, it's not like Uber special.
It's not a unicorn, but it's still kind of low mileage and...
Yeah, so that's interesting.
That's the question, right?
Is it way cooler if it's 35,000 miles or is it still cool if it's 100,000 miles?
We'll get into that, but I want to talk about the genesis of this episode, you know?
So it's like, I post this thing in the Facebook group and, you know, I start kind of getting
attacked.
It's even like, even though I said in my post like, I believe in driving the cars and I'm
going to run the mileage up on this 993, it's still a little bittersweet.
And the reason I say it's bittersweet is because you're not going to erase the miles and it's
a little bit special to have something from 1995, you know, this legendary 9-11 and you're
starting to see the miles take up.
So it was funny because I started to get a little bit torched and, you know, guys are
like, oh, you can't take it with you and, you know, what are these cars are meant to
be driven and, you know, Ferdinand Porsche would be disappointed in you.
I mean, you know, in an inevitably, you know, it's, I'm not going to say inevitably.
Many times what you get is you get that and if anybody's listening out here and you're
active on social media and by the way, like 90% of my social media centers on Porsches.
So everything Instagram gives me, everything Facebook gives me is, is about these cars.
Like I'm just not, I don't, I don't need to see the high school, the woman who I went
to high school with like sharing pictures of her babies.
Sorry.
Just not exciting.
So at any rate, unless they're in the back of a 9-11, yes, right.
So at any rate, you know, you get in there and generally what I'm, what I've seen is
like guy will attack because guy likes to drive his car.
So he attacks, maybe belittles you a little bit, but then, and you're going to appreciate
it.
He's really set up the post, the whole post to share with you a picture of his car and
he wants to tell you how special his car is.
So it's really like, you know, he starts off attacking and really he's just teeing up
a flex.
And, and so anyway, man, that's where this started is, is Derek, I reached out to you.
I said, man, this, this is what happened.
I think there might be something to talk about here.
So here we are.
Wow.
There's a lot there.
Um, outside of online bullying where mean girls, which, you know, the Porsche community
is not immune to, I do think it does set up a little bit of a discussion of the idea
of a garage queen versus the road warrior.
And I, and, and I do listen, we've talked about since the very genesis of this podcast,
we've talked about the fact that we love to drive our cars.
Porsche, uh, as a brand is a driver focused brand.
If you look through the kind of the ownership history of the brand, it's based in motorsport.
It's not based in pedestal work.
So I completely understand where people are like, you have to drive your car in it.
If you are a bemoaning, high mileage car, then somehow something's wrong with you and
your ownership that being said, I mean, I think that it over time as Porsches have become
more expensive and I'm going to use the term valuable.
I do think that there enters into kind of this idea of, well, are you diminishing value?
And it's okay to be sad about that because you're using the car, but are you using up
the car and that's a discussion.
So are you preserving the value or are you just storing it?
And I think, I don't know, man, I think it kind of comes from, there's like three or
four different things depending on what camp you fall in.
I think people, uh, people will put a car in a garage and look at it.
Those are the people that when they were kids own matchboxes, right?
They had all these cars, they lined them up, they looked at them in their matchbox case.
And when they're adults and they have the money, they just want that in their garage
and they just want to stare at them.
And, you know, maybe part of that has to do with pride, you know, like they're pride
in owning it, they look at it as a sense of accomplishment and they don't want to
diminish it by using it.
They like it in that perfect pristine, you know, type of thing.
I don't think that's you.
Even though I do know you like to sit in your garage and look at your cars though.
God, man, I was just taking notes over here as you're talking.
So I think part of this conversation has to do with like your personal ownership objectives.
And we've been talking about this for a long time that, you know, each of us uniquely,
and that's what I love about the Porsche hobby.
Like we, we kind of pick and choose and, and decide like how do we want to enjoy these cars?
You know, some people want to that date and hot rod and like that's what they're into.
Or some people really like detailing their cars or, or some, you know, some folks are
like total period correct, don't change anything.
I've started have, well, I have for a while, Derek, I've had a lot of people, they reach
out to me and they say, Hey, look, I'm thinking about buying this or buying that.
Or, you know, I want my first to 9-11 and I don't know where to begin.
And I've started to offer like, you know, kind of a consulting service where they pay
me a fee and I become their thought partner and I help them through that process.
Because I think like you and I are lucky.
I mean, we've been in the hobby for a while.
So we've built up a network of people that you can, you know, get in touch with via text
or whatever.
I mean, I call it car counseling.
I have friends that I'll call as I'm thinking through a decision to decide what's right
for me and whether or not I should pursue a car or whatever.
I think a lot of people out there don't have that.
And so I've been able to offer that service.
So the first thing I ask them, you know, I get a little bit of information on them and
what they're looking to spend and that kind of thing, how experienced they are.
But I start with a big picture question and it's like, you know, are you going to drive
the car?
Are you more of a detailer?
Are you a cars and coffee person?
Do you even know?
Has this been a lifelong dream?
Da-da-da-da.
And so you kind of set up an understanding of what it is they're trying to achieve.
And so that goes to what you just said, you know, different people want different things.
And I think mileage will then come into it, you know.
So for me, it's like a little bit.
But first of all, like my, my desires inside of this hobby have changed over time and I've
heard it called like a maturation process.
For me, it's been an experiencing process where I've gotten a lot of things out of my
system and I've landed on, I guess, a position of like a little bit of knowledge.
Like, I don't know much, you know, but I know a little bit and I have enough seat time to
know what I want to accomplish and I'm mainly a driver.
I'm a bit of a modder when I say that modifying these cars, but I modify them with intention.
It's not just like a bunch of cosmetic shit that I throw at them.
I do, this is kind of the guilty little pleasure.
I love, I'm about to admit something that's really crazy.
I like parking my cars and there's a row of four of them in the car in the garage.
And then I have like one stuffed against the back wall, which is silly.
I won't get into that.
But when I line them up, I want to, I organize them according to color.
So I want the colors to work side by side.
In other words, like I don't want two of the same shade next to each other.
I mean, God, I'm a geek, but I will also get them parked perfectly.
So like all the, the, maybe the rear deck lids, like it all like lines up perfectly.
That's how you have, I have.
So maybe you are a matchbox owner, Will.
I am, dude, because, you know, you, you, you actually get it to move under its own
power for just a little bit and then you, you turn it off, get it out and push it
just a little bit so everything's lined up correctly.
So I mean, I say that, you know, I'm making fun of myself and, but it's true.
Because I like taking pictures of my car by the way, cars, by the way, I mean,
that's another way some enjoy the hobby is like, man, I like to stage them in really cool spots.
So, you know, that's a lot of words just to say that we each have very, very unique ways
we like to, to enjoy our car or cars.
And then, you know, mileage will factor in depending on what we're trying to achieve.
I mean, is that, is that a fair way of looking at it?
I think it is fair.
I think it also is like, where are you in the hobby?
I remember my first car, it was a 944 and it was like $4,200.
I had to take a loan out for it when I was like a, like maybe 21 years old
because I had a crap job, you know, out of college.
And to me, that car was everything.
And I don't remember what mileage it had on it, but I cleaned it with a baby's diaper.
It was like my pride and joy.
And I definitely drove it, but I was very aware of how many miles I was putting on it
because I wanted to preserve it.
As I've owned a lot of cars over time, you know, there are still those kind of
special seminal cars you get, you know, maybe you graduate to your first 9-11.
Maybe you graduate to like your, you know, the nicest air-cooled car you've ever had.
Maybe you've graduated to the most modern 9-11 or the most expensive 9-11
you've been able to stretch and purchase.
And, and there is some of that, but I do think it's interesting.
And I see this with a lot of my friends in kind of the community
that the value put on mileage and put on the value of the car has a lot to do
with how much the car costs versus how much someone's personal wealth is.
So for example, you know, if you have a 944 as an early 20-something that represented
with a loan on it, all the money I had that was like superfluous, you know,
that was all the extra money that I could go burn.
And that was, that was that, you know, now, you know, when you are more successful in your
career and you purchase a $4,000 car, it's not something you look at as quite as valuable.
So you're willing to park it places, you're willing to pile on mileage,
because it becomes more of the experience rather than this price possession, I think,
in a lot of ways.
And, you know, but for the very same reason that if you said,
hey, Derek, here's a 9-11 to car, you know, I would put that on a pistol.
I don't know if I'd want to drive it in the dirt and go tear it up on the roads,
because, you know, to me, that represents a car that's above my station.
Do you know what I mean by that?
My goodness, absolutely.
I, I'm just taking a note here.
Yeah, where am I in my professional career, my earning capability, my view of money?
Have I made what I wanted?
Do I have enough put away where I'm not sweating what you're talking about?
I think it's all very personal and it's all a function of how, you know,
how successful we are, how much money we, or how much emphasis we placed on money in our lives
to chase and all of that stuff, which you're absolutely right.
Like my first collectible fun play car, it was an E46 M3, I think it was a 2002 maybe,
M3, and it was a convertible.
And I think I paid $25,000.
And I don't want to get too much into, I don't want us to sound like assholes
that money doesn't mean anything.
But at the time, like 25K was all the money in the world for me, because,
you know, I had a young family and I was making only a certain amount of money and all that.
So it was a stretch.
But now I've got a $25,000 base boxer sitting in my garage that I can't decide if I want
to sell it or not, because it's like, you know, just 25, my view of $25,000 has changed.
In other words, I don't need to have $25,000 in my pocket.
So that, that being said, I mean, I think you're right.
And it's, it's, do I, do I, am I okay devaluing it?
Because I don't mind as much or am I terrified of devaluing it?
Because, oh my God, I might lose $3,000 on it.
You know, and that's a very personal question.
And, you know, kind of a bigger question to the Porsche audience and how you look at these cars,
because they're not special cars.
I say they're not special cars in the, in the fact that they make a lot of them.
They're not, I should say that this outside of certain examples, they're not rare cars.
And so it's not like if you use this car up, that it's, you know, you're devaluing the,
like the bigger hole.
But it's funny, I was thinking through when I was kind of writing down some notes when we're
going to talk about this, and I'm going to throw something at you.
The idea of free Porsche miles, okay, free miles, what does that mean?
It's like these psychological hurdles that I have, and I'm going to share it with you,
and maybe the audience, and maybe they might be in the same place.
All right, so if I buy a car that is under 20,000 miles, right?
And I, I cross that 20,000 mile mark, it's no longer to me a new car.
And that's like a huge hurdle.
Because, you know, before 20,000 miles, it's like, I only have 14,000 miles on this car.
I only have 17,000 miles, you know?
So that's like what my, my personal first psychological hurdle.
And then the next hurdle for me, I would say my, from 41, 40, 41,000 miles to 79,000 miles
are free Porsche miles.
And I would get in my car, I won't look at the odometer, I'll drive it.
I don't feel like I'm devaluing the car.
I don't feel like it's towards the end of its life.
I think that from 40 to 80, is where I like to buy my cars, because I can drive them as much as I
want. And I feel like, oh, it's, it's still in its, in its sweet spot.
But once you hit 80,000 miles, personally, I find like I have this like crisis.
And this happened with my 991.1, crosses over 80,000 miles.
And then you have to ask yourself, well, is this a keeper?
Is this, you're at, you're at this precipice where the value is going to start to change.
So you have to decide, am I going to keep this and drive this?
Because I love this car so much.
Or is it's something I want to move along because I don't want to take a financial hit
because I want to move on to my next experience.
Because right, sorry, I finished up, sorry.
I just, I got excited because I haven't a response, but go ahead.
Buyers, they anchor around these like whole numbers, you know, at 80,000 miles,
you're right around the corner from 100,000 miles.
And 100,000 miles, and this is a whole other topic,
is in a lot of people's minds when a car is used up,
which is such an outdated concept.
But when it comes to values is a huge concept.
So go ahead and make your point.
You know, I couldn't agree more with you.
I mean, I'm not a collector to the degree where I understand where these cliffs are
of, you know, value loss, but I do think you're right about the 20,000 mark.
But you're getting to 80,000, you're asking yourself,
do I love the car so much that I'm willing to take a hit?
But an additional layer to that is, as the miles begin to rack up,
am I willing to replace a clutch for $4,000?
Yikes!
You know, so that's going to put you even further underwater on the thing.
And that's the sole searching question that I've had to ask myself many times.
And you know, it's like, do I need to,
do I love the car enough to sustain a hit?
Or do I need to go ahead and pull the rip cord before something breaks and before the value
really goes down?
Because I don't really like the car enough to take that hit.
And like, what a subtle weirdo kind of thing to think about.
I mean, you got to be a deep car guy to be thinking about things that way.
It's true, but it's reflected in values.
I mean, if you go and look, like, let's take your, I don't know,
let's take your 997.2, for example, right?
If you look at an example that has under 20,000 miles, or under 30,000 miles,
you know, 26,000 miles, that's still considered like cream puff and the values are elevated
because it's still, you know, considered like still in the wrapper.
But if you look at the values of a 997.2, say between 46,000, 56,000, 62,000 miles,
they're pretty much all right around the same, right?
Because it's, that's kind of considered like the early healthy life of the car.
But once you start getting to 86,000 miles or 92,000 miles,
you see the value starting to go the other way.
But I made this point, I think it was maybe one of the weeks where it was around the fourth and we
put up an episode from last year, but I did like a little blurb and I talked about
before that it aired, I talked about the value in buying a Porsche 911 over 100,000 miles.
And how some unbelievable deals can be found.
Because if you go look at a 996 or a 997 that has 120,000 miles on it,
it is 20, 30% less compared to the rest of the field.
But it's not used up.
We have this concept, right, of at 100,000 miles, this is like from like the 70s.
At 100,000 miles, the engine's going to fall out the ass of the car,
you're going to have to replace everything, you're going to have to put it to the crusher.
But let me ask you a question, do you really think that car is going to react any differently
well if it has 98,000 miles or 107,000 miles?
No, it's the same car, right?
It's not like the expiration date hits and it falls apart,
but from a value standpoint, psychologically it's huge.
Yeah, and I think too you're going to have to grapple with not only am I willing to take the
hit as I rack up the miles and potentially have some fairly expensive repairs,
but do I want to face the friction when it comes time to exit?
Because to your point, there's these psychological aspects of all this,
and so you buy the thing at 90, and then you rack up the miles and you're at 120,
and practically speaking, as the car is as good at 120 as it was at 90,
and the answer is likely, but you get into the idea of I've got to sell this thing,
and now everybody's going to beat me up because it's got 120,000 miles on it,
so then it becomes a little bit more of a pain in the ass,
and there was a better reason to get out earlier.
I'm remiss in saying that every time I look at a car and I look at the value and I look at the
miles, I immediately think, what's the likelihood of miles I'm going to put on it,
and then if I do turn around and sell it, am I going to get hurt?
And if I'm looking at a car with 90 or 92,000 miles, I'm 100% thinking about the pain in
the ass that's going to be to move it along at 110 or 112,
which is the wrong way to look at it, right?
So what's interesting to me, Will, is that there was an ad, I think it was in the panorama,
one of the Porsche magazines, where it celebrated a Porsche turbo that had reached 700,000 miles.
Did you see that ad?
Killer.
Yeah, I did, and I think the guy was like, he's like, I want a million.
He daily drove the thing like for many years to and from work and all over town.
Yeah, that was cool.
You know what?
I might have seen that car at Amelia.
Oh, really?
Yeah, it's reframing high mileage as proof of reliability and love, right?
And that has everything to do with maintenance.
Because where does it tip over from, I don't want to touch that car.
It has 100,000 miles, it has 110,000 miles to, oh my god, that car has 300,000 miles.
All of a sudden, it gains value back in this emotional, ephemeral state of, oh my,
it's like romantic, it's romantic.
It's someone with their car.
Yeah, I mean, I agree.
And then you get into the conversation of the early cars and the patina and the stories,
and you're just like, it's been well loved.
It feels like it's battle tested.
And I think that's a different type of owner that really appreciates that.
I mean, I have a really good friend I allude to, I mean, I had to get him on here.
I mean, the guys, he's really interesting in how he enjoys this hobby.
He is just as obsessed as we are.
But his ownership goals, like he buys low mileage, special examples.
He really likes colors.
And I think his biggest joy is keeping them clean, clean, clean.
And, you know, looking at him in his garage, I think he does a lot of his, you know,
zoom meetings for his job in there.
And he just looks at them and just provides him great satisfaction.
That dude right there is not going to buy a 100,000 mile example and say,
man, this thing's been battle tested and I'm glad it has great maintenance history
because I'm going to go beat the shit out of it.
It's just a different type of ownership objective, you know?
I'll tell you the one type of owner I don't love.
And it's the type of owner that looks at their ROI every time they drive the car.
I used to have a buddy when we were in college every once in a while.
And if, you know, we were, if we had five bucks in our pocket, it was to go down to,
in Massachusetts we called it the packy, but you go down to the liquor store and get yourself,
you know, a 30 rack for college.
And so to get a skiing ticket was like big money, right?
Whatever it was back then, let's say it was 50 bucks for a day.
He would, he would do an ROI on every run he did on the mountain.
So he would take his $50 and divide it by how many runs he did to find out the value,
to make sure he, he got all the value out of his ticket.
And so, you know, we'd go in for lunch, we'd have a drink, we'd hang out.
I got to get back out there.
I got to get more, I got to get more runs in because I got to feel like I got my money's worth.
And I don't like that feeling when you have a car where maybe you buy above your station
or maybe you buy below your station, but you feel like you have to drive it
or you have to not drive it because you don't want to diminish the value
because the, the money is worth more than the experience of driving it.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it does.
I've not met that particular persona, but like that's one cheap bastard.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess it's like, how many times can I go back to the all you can eat buffet
to make sure?
100%.
That's exactly what it is.
But, but think about that in reverse when it comes to owning a Porsche,
like it goes in your garage and I can understand
not driving it because you like to look at it to an extent,
but I can't understand not driving it because you don't want to hurt the value
because then it's like, well, then that's just an ornament.
It's just a piece of art and it's a lot of money to put into something that literally
is going to cost you maintenance and it's going to cost you money because it's sitting
and you're not experiencing on the road.
Yeah.
Hill, this man I was talking about earlier, like I'll send him a listing of something that
he might be considering, right?
If I'll make it up a 981 GT4 and I'll trip over a listing,
although he's super human.
He always finds them before I do.
So I'll think I got it right out of the gate and I'll send it every single I've seen that.
I mean, his ability to set up alerts in his email, like I have no idea.
Anyway, I digress.
It'll have 12,000 miles on it.
He'll be like, those miles are too high.
Really?
That's what he's doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so again, like I don't want to beat the horse, but it's just like, you know, how do
each of us want to enjoy it?
But you know, Derek, I used to care a lot about the loss I was going to suffer and nowadays,
I just don't.
So I have a 991.2 Carrera S in manual that is really, it's one of the cars that I featured
in that comparison video against the 997.2.
I bought that car the first time when it had 18,000 miles on it and I drove it for a while,
but I didn't 100% like love it and I wasn't totally sure that I wanted to keep it forever.
And so I sold it fairly quickly because I was worried about depreciation.
I mean, at the time, I think the car was worth a little bit north of 100.
And so I sold it and I began to miss it and I bought it back and everybody who's been
listening and following along knows the story.
So I won't belabor it again, but I think I bought it back and had 21,000 miles.
The car is now sitting at 40,000 miles.
I have driven the hell out of it because I enjoy the usability.
I enjoy the experience.
I love the car.
I don't care anymore.
Like, I mean, I've thought a little bit about what kind of a hit that I've taken on the car.
I mean, I'll say this, I think I paid 104 for it and I mean, where is it now with 40,000 on it?
I don't know, high 80s, low 90s.
And this has been over a period of time of like a year and a half and guess what?
I don't care because the value of the experience is worth more to me than the loss of 10 or
15,000.
I mean, that stings when I say that.
Like, who likes to lose that kind of money?
Right.
But it's all about like, how heavily do I weight the experience versus keeping the miles off?
Yeah.
The other interesting point though is in the Porsche world, I feel like it's outside of,
it's in this weird bubble where the value of a car like yours is still going up and so it
helps buffer some of your depreciation where you're putting the miles on.
So it doesn't hurt as bad.
That's right, man.
And I used to be that way too, like, man, I'm going to catch something when it's low
and that way I can basically drive it for free as I ride the wave up, right?
Here's a concept I'm going to throw at you that as I was kind of thinking through this,
I found myself also falling into this trap that I have this unconscious 40 year rule in my head.
And by that, I mean anything older than 40 years, I don't care how many miles it has.
And anything newer than 40 years, it plays an increasing, you know, kind of
data point in my decision making tree.
So I'm going to throw this at you.
Let's say that you're looking at an 86, 9, 11, right?
A G body, right?
And this is on par with maintenance.
Let's say that all the maintenance in this example has been done, okay, to an extent.
Do you care how many miles it has?
I mean, outside of maybe an engine rebuild in its history, do you really care if a G body has
90,000 miles or 180,000 miles?
Now put that in one corner.
Yeah, go ahead.
So, okay, so on the other corner, you're 997.2, right?
Do you care if that 997 has 80,000 or 87,000 miles or 180,000 miles?
I feel like if the maintenance is equal, that it does matter significantly, actually.
Now, why is that?
Well, I think the water cooled stuff, the newer stuff hasn't
it hasn't reached that true classic status.
I think I don't know how many you see running around that are still running strong as hell
at 150,000 miles.
But with the air cooled stuff, you can say that happens all the time.
And so, you and I actually talked about this a few months back.
It is a weird type of psychological thing, because I mean, my guards red 997.2 has 84,000
miles on it.
And I'm going to be honest with you, that feels kind of high.
84,000 on a G body is like, who cares?
To answer your first question, do I care about mileage?
I mean, what I care about is, is there rust?
Sure, condition, certainly.
Yeah, what's the compression and leak down?
And I mean, if it's got a strong motor and the wires aren't dry,
rotted apart, all the obvious stuff, I don't care if it's got 130 on it.
As long as the price reflects that, right?
But at the end of the day, that's not going to cause me not to buy it.
And it's not going to cause me not to drive it and enjoy it.
Like a 356, don't care any miles.
A F body like mine, don't care.
G body, don't care.
993, I'm starting to not care.
Even though the difference between a 90 or 100,000 mile 993 is different than a car
with 200,000 miles.
That's still kind of plays into it.
What do you think about that?
I don't know.
I'm just laughing because it's like this continuum of caring.
And also, by the way, let's step back.
Let's step back like three feet here and you said 40 years.
Like why 40 years, by the way?
What is it?
Because it's a rolling 40 years.
No, it's because we're in 2025 and I still kind of care about a 993.
But I don't care about an 80s car.
It's the beginning comments that I shared with you on the front end of the video.
Like the 993 turning over 70, it just hurts a little bit.
Right.
Right.
But your 997 or maybe my 013 Boxster, it matters more to me.
And I don't think it has to do.
I mean, if anything, you can say the tolerances and the build quality on modern Porsche are
far better than they are in the early cars.
You would expect to have an engine rebuild at 100,000 miles in a G-body.
If you had to rebuild your motor at 100,000 miles on your 997 or your 991, you'd be like,
this is a lemon.
Like what is going on here?
This is insane.
And so let me take 25 or 30 grand and throw it in a fire barrel.
That's how I feel about it.
Just light it on fire, pull it out of the bank and let's burn it.
That's it, man.
So it's like it's this weird thing I have in my head and in talking to other Porsche owners,
I feel like there is this expectation where miles matter with some of the newer cars,
miles don't matter with the older cars with maintenance being on hand.
But let me, I'm going to throw a curveball at you.
And this will be the last topic before we wrap up.
EVs, right?
Because we are now well into what's it been, five, six years with the Taycan.
You have the Macan EV that you've driven or been driven in as well.
Is it miles or is it charge cycles?
I mean, I would think it's charge cycles, but I don't know diddly, okay, about the technology.
I've never even looked into these cars.
I've never researched what time does to them.
I know my computer battery, my laptop battery begins to fail after I've cycled it so many times.
I mean, you know, Derek, it's funny.
I mean, funny, maybe not funny.
I have zero interest in those cars, so I can't answer that question.
You tell me.
Well, yeah, well, do kind of like as kind of a thought process or a thought game,
like Porsche has done hybrid motors now, right?
For God, what is it?
It's got to be 15 years.
The Cayenne that I have here at the house came in a hybrid in 2012.
You can get a Panamera Hybrid 2012.
I look at a car like that, right, that has a battery that's now 13 years old,
and I'm like, I don't know if I want to touch that, which is kind of insane.
So I do think it's charge cycles, and I think that's probably one reason why,
I know it's a reason why EVs in general just tank like crazy in terms of depreciation and that you
can buy a Taycan like for next to no money versus what it was new two years out.
I mean, it's like 50%, 60% fall on value.
It's because I think it's equates to like an iPhone or a laptop battery.
You know there's a definitive end because even if it's sitting in your garage or you're driving it,
that battery is degrading over time where somehow in our mind we feel that a gas car,
an ice engine, you can put it in your garage and it's like paused.
You know, there's nothing that's going wrong until you drive it again,
whereas a battery-powered car is continuing to degrade whether it sets or it drives,
which is kind of interesting, but it makes it a little bit more disposable,
like a tube of toothpaste. You know, you use it up and then it's gone,
you know, whereas I don't know if that's the right way to think about it.
Well, here's what I know. I was talking to the service advisor at my local factory dealer,
and I was asking about these modern EV Porsches, and I said, you know,
what are you seeing going wrong with him? And he says, I've seen battery failures.
I said, what does that look like? He's like, you better own it in warranty.
I'm like, okay, and I'm going to make this up. But whatever the number was,
it was like, I would never want to throw that kind of money at this piece of shit.
It was like 15 grand, I think, to replace the batteries in the cars. And like,
I don't know, man. I mean, I don't know about more, maybe I don't know.
But what it was, how about this? What it was is I was like, I wouldn't touch that thing with a
10 foot pole. I don't even know that I don't want it in warranty.
But here's the funny thing, right? And when you talk about an expiration date on a vehicle,
because I do think it's charged cycles when it comes to EV. And you are wearing down the battery,
if you use it, if you charge it to 100% versus 80, if you're driving it every day and recharging it,
is it better than letting it sit? All these variables. But if you have a car that's driven
all the time, and you're at 100,000 miles, like I said, like with a G body, you're expecting to
drop 25 or 30 grand on an engine rebuild. But you wouldn't replace the battery. You wouldn't
want to replace the battery in an EV. But why? It's the same price. It's the same, you know,
quote unquote car. But it's different somehow. And I don't know why.
What doesn't have the soul, the history, the stories, the iconic design that you're talking
about with these early cars. There's a number of reasons that really make them so special that
it's worth doing. You know, thank God I haven't gotten into a motor rebuild. It's not only is it
an expensive endeavor, but it's also a big challenge to find a shop that's competent enough
in today's world to do an air cooled rebuild correctly. But I will say this, I mean, I've
been prepared to do it, and that's money that you may or may not ever see back. But in that sense,
and I'm going to take it a step further, I've viewed it almost as a right of passage and who
likes to lose money, but the car is special enough where it deserves it. So, so would you,
and I've heard that before, like that car deserves it. Tell me about a modern EV that
deserves it when it comes time to like, you know, throw it, put a new battery in the thing. I just
don't see it ever being the same way. They're not there yet. So, that's funny. No. If you
ceramic coat it, you're seriously dating, if you PPF it, you're getting married. So, what's an
engine rebuild? That kind of commitment, it's like a 50 year wedding anniversary, right? Like,
this is- You're having 10 kids. You're having 10 kids. That's what that is, man. So, all right,
look, very interesting talk. I mean, I do think we meandered around the single thread, the main
thread of mileage, but we'd love to hear what people have to say about this.
There's so many different angles to come at this, and you're right. I don't think we even touched
on a little bit of it, but we do think about it differently in terms of how we use our cars and
how we value our cars and what we think about mileage. And so, I would really love to hear
some of the feedback from what other people think about this, but as always, just sitting over a
cup of coffee talking about Porsche crap. So, well, always fun. We'll talk to you next week.
Hey, man, take care. Later, man.
And that's a wrap for this episode of Renthousias Radio. We hope you enjoyed diving deep into the
world of Porsches with us today. And if you enjoyed today's show, be sure to check out previous
episodes and subscribe to Renthousias Radio wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget
to leave us a review. Your feedback helps us improve and ensures we're delivering the Porsche
content you look forward to. Catch you on the next episode of Renthousias Radio.
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