Driven Radio Show #321: John Saccameno of Sport and Specialty

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I am Brett Hatfield here with my cohost and engineer extraordinaire, Mr.

Mark Rose. That's me.

We are coming to you from Driven Radio Studios.

We're back.

Everything worked the first time when we turned it on.

That was weird.

Holy crap, man.

Things just weren't on.

I wasn't getting.

I was kind of getting used to, you know, we got to show up.

I have our early and the mild panic.

Well, like when you were a kid, your dad had you at Justin the antenna on the TV

and here, hold your left arm over that way.

And, you know, that sort of crap.

Well, we had to take all those good curse words and reapply them, you know,

now to electronics.

My dad treated like a second language.

Not wrong.

I thought my name was damn it, Brett, till I was 13.

Our special guest this week is John Sakamino, owner of Sport and Specialty

in Durand, Illinois.

John is a lifelong car guy.

And as a kid, all his favorite toys had wheels.

John has always had a passion for British and Italian marks.

He is an avid amateur racer and instructor for more than two decades,

competing in vintage sports car drivers, association races

and the B sedan, trans and series at the end of 2012.

John purchased the award winning full service restoration shop, Sport

and Specialty in Northern Illinois.

Sport and Specialty caters to the European car community

with a focus on cars from the 50s, 60s and 70s, while also providing

vintage race car prep and support.

John, Johnny Sack, welcome back to Driven Radio.

Good to be here.

Thanks for remembering about me.

You know, I was post COVID.

I became, you know, desolate.

Nobody wanted to hang out.

Nobody called to do my day job.

It was just wasn't it wasn't as much fun as it is.

It's not that we've forgotten you, sir, but there are just a couple

other people in the car world that we we needed to get.

We need to get to everybody.

Three years, man.

Three years.

Hey, I've had a couple of people who went longer in between them.

Yeah, but three you scream in three years.

Sounds like me talking to my ex-wife.

It's been three years on those payments and you won't get those calls.

You say there's a reason she's an ex.

It has been quite a while since we've had you on and you're usually

flying with your partner in crime, Andy Reed.

And I always like having you two on together so you can just give each other crap.

How have you been?

How is how is life in the shop?

How's just everything?

It's good. I mean, I it's, you know, I've had

I've had sport and specialty now.

I don't know. This is I'm going into my 14th year.

I mean, more than a few, more than a few people kind of said,

hey, this is the stupidest thing in the world for you to do.

I can't believe you're going to do this.

Most most, you know, people fail and I said, I won't fail.

Oh, no, everybody.

And I said, no, I will fail.

It's going to be fine.

And here it is 14 years later or, you know, we've we've been up.

We've been down. I live through COVID.

You know, it's it's been an interesting ride.

And, and, you know, it's my third, as you said,

it's my third career, probably hopefully my last.

I don't want to be greeting people at Walmart at some point.

I can I I keep looking at all these like, what could you do next?

I mean, what what would what would you be, you know, you could be a great

greeter at Walmart if you set up a table in front and you just had carburetors on there.

Yeah.

Welcome to rock part.

You can you can win a Diet Coke at Walmart.

Welcome to Walmart and small engine repair.

That's been it's been fun.

You know, we've gone through some people.

I've still got I got one one guy that's been there through the whole thing, plus Kathy,

who who was married to Mark Baker, who I who I bought the business from.

But Kathy and Ryan Vetter fabricator extraordinaire has been there, you know,

with me through the whole thing.

Got George.

We it's been an it's been an interesting ride.

And like I said, through the ups and downs and all the, you know, travails.

At the end of the day, I kind of painted myself into a corner.

You know, I'm getting I'm getting to that age where I turned 69 this week, right?

Thursday turned 69.

Happy birthday.

First of all, I'm very surprised that I made it very, very surprised that I made it.

Because, you know, when you're a kid, you know, you're, you know, all fatalistic.

I won't see 60.

You know, I forgot.

Oh, I didn't think I'd see 30.

Yeah.

I honestly, God thought I'd be dead by 30.

So I've got, you know, we were harvesting bad habits that, you know,

two at a time at one point.

So I went, OK, this will be cool.

So now it's everybody's like, well, what are you going to do next?

Or when are you going to retire?

And I said, I don't know, what am I, what am I going to do?

I mean, really, what am I going to do?

And so I probably ended up doing exactly what I'm doing somehow.

So for the time being, you know, I'm trying to come up with an exit strategy,

but I'm in no particular hurry for it.

It's hard to sell a restoration business.

You know, I've got the intellectual property, which is the guys, right?

You know, I've got a great crew now.

I mean, I took a while.

I did have some new people, some older people, bringing some people in.

But, you know, it is what it is.

I've got good cars in.

I've got good customers, but I have painted myself into a corner.

You know, how do you get out?

Your exit strategy and your exit strategy involves a pine box.

Right. Right.

I don't and I don't want to be that guy either.

It's like, oh, bring the wheelchair out.

John's coming in today.

This is this is going to be fun.

You know, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't want to call, you know, I've got some jobs in.

You know, you can call people and go, hey, I'm out.

Come get your car.

Yeah. But what are you going to do?

I don't know. I'm probably going to.

I'm trying to figure out it.

If I can find a partner for Ryan, you know, and or put together two or three

guys with some skill sets, the problem is, you get there's a certain skill

set you need to be a business operator, you know, you got to be a sales guy

a little bit. Obviously, you know, that was my background.

I was fortunate that way.

Um, I make no bones about it.

I'm not the best guy in the shop at doing any of the hard work, if you will.

Or the, you know, the actual work skill labor.

Yeah, you know, but on the other hand, you know, my my my corporate

superpower was I built great teams.

That's what I did.

And, you know, back in the day, I take weirdo businesses and I turn them

into successful businesses by kind of harvesting the best people in that in

that group and bringing them along.

And I've done it again.

I said, that's what I'm good at.

Not, not doing the work myself.

I am far too lazy for that.

But I do, I do know how to Tom Sawyer, that stuff where you get someone

else to paint the fence for you.

You know, I'm good at that.

I got an idea for you.

The next step franchise.

Yeah.

Okay.

Get right on.

I started out in the Burger King world.

And then I could think of nothing worse than having a Burger King 24 hour or, you

know, a seven day a week franchise.

Could you imagine owning a Dunkin Donuts to be like having a mad dog

stamped your leg all the time.

That thing is always open.

There's always a problem there.

It's like, no, no, no.

So no, you know, I got a funny feeling.

I'll probably somehow, if I can gracefully slide out.

So we'll see.

We'll see.

But in the meantime, I'm still having fun.

You can go for a little while.

My dad sold his last lumberyard three years ago when he was 79.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, with a little support, you know, with a little support.

I, what I need to do is make sure I carve out a little bit more time for myself.

I know it sounds kind of weird, but it's like, look, I'm not coming in for three days.

I'm going to go on a motorcycle ride or I'm going to go drive somewhere or I'm

going to do something.

And I, I tend to not do that well.

I tend to, I'm not, I'm not a control freak by any stretch of the imagination,

but I tend not to do that real well.

So I'm trying to schedule a few more things, you know, during the, during the week.

And is that because I work, I go, I work weekends, you know, like it or not.

You know, I was, it wrote a miracle last weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

I left Sunday morning the weekend before I had a rally in the morning that I sponsored.

And then we had a British car festival meeting the week before.

See, this doesn't really sound like a lot of work.

This sounds like what we do on the weekend anyway.

Yeah, but you don't have to do like the other stuff during the week too.

I mean, there are some Fridays I leave here and go, I don't want to see a vehicle.

And I don't want to walk.

I'll take a horse.

I don't, you know, it does happen.

It does happen, you know, still doing cardinered stuff all week long.

I was working on an appraisal and almost until Mark got here today.

So, yeah, yes and no, I tell you what, man, being able to get in a little car

and put the top down and go for a ride on the weekend, get the wind in your hair

that you could ask for worse things to do.

Yeah, but you're not trying to sell it.

Well, yeah, as long as, yeah, again, you know, as long as all the other things

are caught up, yeah.

So again, I think, but I'm not doing it for me, you know what I mean?

I'm not saying here's where I want to go and I want to go do this.

You know, we had the race season, race season is just about over.

There is a point at the end of the year where I go take a deep breath,

work on some projects of my own and, you know, kind of catch up, catch up around the shop.

It's a good thing.

It's it's believe me.

The last thing I'm going to do is bitch about my life.

It's I'm a very fortunate guy.

But some days my friends go, oh, everyone wants to be you

because everybody has this dream I'm going to leave the wicked corporate world

and I'm going to be a restoration guy.

You know, everybody thinks, oh, that's great.

And I go, yeah, what happens when people don't pay you?

OK, what happens when your machine shop ruins a set of like, you know,

fourteen thousand dollar heads?

You know, what happened?

All that stuff occurs and it's not, you know, it's not it's not.

Oh, that's OK.

That'll just fix itself later, you know.

So it all has its, you know, it all has its ups and downs.

It's just no different than a real job when it comes to that.

So speaking of getting things caught up,

can you talk about what's going on in the shop?

What are you working on?

Well, funny, you should ask.

We've got one way to go.

We've got some cool stuff in right now, although, you know,

you know, we can bring it up later.

But right now we've got I've got a 71 Maserati Ghibli spider,

which is a way cool car.

And it was a refugee that was that was caught up in West Coast.

It was caught out in California under the under a general contracting

type restore that would send it out to all these different shops to get work done,

but never really, you know, finish the job.

So it was stuck at a body shop out in the out of the desert.

And so it was my job.

I went out and picked it up and actually drove all the way to California

with a retired buddy of mine and picked it up and drove it home.

And then we had to go to Virginia to pick up the engine

and all the mechanical bits and pieces.

It was really kind of a messy deal.

But don't it's a seven hundred thousand dollar car.

So it was worth doing.

Yeah. And you can't you can't find, you know, I call I call a bunch of the usual

suspects, probably guys, you know, also.

And so, hey, I need a car picked up in California and brought to Chicago.

Problem is, it's in a million pieces.

And, you know, and they were talking sixteen twenty thousand dollars

to do all that because you got to pay on the way out and you got to pay on the way back.

And nobody wants to, you know, nobody wants to shovel dusty, old,

crappy parts into the back of their trailer and figure out how to do that.

So maybe there are, but I was the guy that raised my hand.

I figured for the restoration job, I do that because this one's going to be fun.

We've got I've got a three fifty six road seren that we're doing in collaboration

with another another shop.

We're doing kind of an outlaw, which has been fun.

Got a nine eleven and we've got a fifty one mercury of all things

that we're almost finished with.

We're not well, we're we're there.

It's been an interesting bill.

We learned a lot.

That's a different car for your shop.

I know. I know.

We can't we work around it.

You know, it takes a lot of it takes up a lot of square footage.

It's honest. It's honest.

I still have an E type.

I have one E type we're working on.

And usually we've got a couple of three there.

They've kind of fallen off a little bit.

Two fifty S L total stick, which is a pretty rare car.

And it's it's it's a total.

It's it's you know, it's a number.

It'll be a number one car when we're finished with it.

Nice. And then, of course,

I found some poor alpha or Fiat one twenty four coup.

You know, and it's what is that thing is sixty eight?

Yeah, that's sixty nine.

And it's just, you know, it's a poor Italian orphan.

I felt bad for it.

I brought it in and, you know, it looked like it was restored by a twelve year old.

You know, so we we brought it in and we've been putzing around with it.

I can't stop myself. You know, oh, it's like a European pinto.

Yeah, it is really interesting.

But it's fun. Yeah, it's really a fun car.

And everybody forgets.

Everybody who sees it goes, oh, I remember those.

Those are really cool.

You know, dual overhead cam, you know, six or what is it?

A seventeen eighty, I think it is.

Or four. No, fourteen eighty.

It's a little little Italian motor.

And I'm like, yeah, let's let's do something with it.

So, you know, we've been we've been we've been putzing around with that mark.

And I've got I've got I finished this this big job,

which is which was my car that we're taking to it.

It's just one one of the best in class awards at Geneva.

It's a sixty five Alfa Romeo one on one.

Julia of the Spider Veloce and it's like one of eleven hundred cars.

Basically, I got to look that one out.

Nineteen sixty five.

Yeah, it's a cool car.

One of that one's mine. That one's mine.

I'm going to take it to right now.

There's a big Alfa convention in town.

The National Group is meeting in Crystal Lake, Illinois.

So I'm going out there to hang out starting Thursday.

And then they've got a track day and they're coming to my place for food

Friday night and then Saturday morning.

I'm going to hopefully I'll get my car judged.

Judge for gold.

And so that would be that would be a positive thing for both me and the shop.

And did you say it was a Julia Sprint?

No, it's a Julia spider.

Spider. Oh, that's the sexy one.

Oh, my God.

Oh, I love the little girl in the middle to that.

Oh, that's a great looking car.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

She's like, wait, what?

No, it's OK. I was looking at it.

I was like, oh, shit, that's very grandpa.

There's an Alfa Romeo, Julia's super.

No, no, no, it's this.

It's a spider.

It's a convertible.

Yeah, that is that's gorgeous. Wow.

Yeah. So it's it's a it's a pretty car.

I we put a lot of time and money into it.

I just basically puked money at that one.

And I just I just picked up the the rear bumper.

I bought brand new from Alfa, a classic Alfa in the UK.

It had like scratchy machine marks and crap all over it.

So I brought it to my chrome guy.

Can you fix this?

He goes, no, I go just, you know, just just re chrome it.

You know, oh, my God.

I got the eight hundred dollar bill when I picked it up this morning for that.

I was like, are you out of your mind?

But it's how pretty it'll be worth it.

It'll be worth it.

It's it'll be a number one car if it goes gold.

And then, you know, it's it'll be at the top of the heap.

Very cool. I'm hoping.

So that's some of them.

You know, plus we do still doing some mechanical work

and we're maintaining some race cars.

But yeah, we're keeping keeping busy.

Although I will tell you that, you know, the the phone isn't quite

isn't ringing quite as much as it was.

Let's say post covid.

Well, and that also kind of leads to the next question.

I think. Everything.

And I mean, everything is more expensive these days,

sometimes to the point of seeming absurd.

How has the cost of vintage European sports cars changed?

And are there outliers that seem to be riding a bubble right now?

I'll tell you, the British car world

is kind of being rocked right now.

You know, E types, which were the darling for the longest time there,

you know, 250 or was not a, you know, an odd number to pay for an E type.

Series one, you know, obviously, you know, series one, number one condition,

you know, one minus, maybe two to two fifty.

That's kind of fell flat.

Healy's, which were bringing a lot of money, they kind of theirs falling flat.

They were knocking at that hundred thousand dollar door.

They're down in the sixties to and nineties, maybe depends,

depends on how they look, you know, what and what kind of condition they're in.

You know, the other stuff, I tell you, you know, they do say bubble.

And to me, I've been calling it the covid bubble.

I think a lot of people during covid and after covid said,

Gee, I had this car in high school and, you know, now I'm gonna,

I'm probably gonna die soon.

So I should, you know, buy up all these British sports cars.

And it was, it was a tie that wrote that, you know, when they say a rising tide

raises all boats, right?

And all these cars, good or bad, started becoming more valuable.

And with that also became, you know, everybody's opportunity to, you know,

to, you know, oh, I've had this car stuck in my garage for the longest time.

I want you to restore it.

I mean, I couldn't turn them away.

I mean, we were, but the problem was, you know, from, from, from a management

standpoint and as a shop owner, all of a sudden too, I'm losing people

and I'm trying to hire people and the government's saying,

Hey, we'll give you money to stay home.

It's not a bad deal, isn't it?

And, and, or they were getting other jobs and then in the middle of it all,

you know, in the middle of it all, you know, all the rates started going up.

Machine shops couldn't turn out work.

All the, all my third party vendors couldn't find anything.

Parts were non-existent, you know, all the Japanese, most motors,

all their, you know, Chinese and all the Chinese plants, they all went home.

They just sent them home for eight months and they, oh, we don't,

we don't have those parts anymore.

And so, you know, it caused a real ripple that even today is still, you know,

I'm still struggling trying to catch up with some of the machine shop work

that I have out there that's been, I mean, literally like 18 months, you know,

guys says, you know, I needed, I needed, there's a, there's a Caddy Cadillac

motor or that mercury in it guys.

Long story, but you know, it came to us, the guy owner says, Hey, this is all

rebuilt, it's fine.

It had like six pounds of pressure, right?

It's like, yeah, not a good rebuild.

So, but the problem is it needed, it needed ring or needed rod, rod bearings

and crank bearings and it was, it was a nine month wait for those.

Nine months.

And the customer's screaming at me like, I can't make them.

You know, this isn't bad.

You know, this is the, they should be there and they didn't have them.

Yeah.

Machine shops are all covered over everywhere.

Well, and, and, you know, all the, all the basic, all the basic stuff got expensive too.

You know, I'm paying my guys a little bit more.

I mean, you know, inflation goes up, you can't, you can't have a 4% inflation rate

or more and pay your guys a 2% increase at the end of the year if you want to keep them.

Yeah.

It's just, it's just, you know, it's just not fair.

And, and so, you know, my, my rates have, I would say we're at least 30% higher

in some cases, 40% higher than we were five years ago.

And I, I don't, you know, I don't know what else to do.

You're, you're, you're always trying to push it.

My rates, I've had 125 bucks an hour for a restoration rate, which is really good

nationally.

Yes.

135 for mechanical, which is getting good nationally, but just trying to balance,

you know, business in the shop.

California East Coast way higher than that.

I wanted to ask, how long is it taking for just your standard small block valve job?

I know you don't do small block stuff much, but I've been told by two different shops

here in the last six months to expect it to take six months.

Oh yeah.

Without a doubt.

I've got Val's in for a, uh, um, a debt and bill we're doing for a guy.

You might even know him, but he, you know, he brought it to us and he said,

hey, I wanted an aluminum small block and it took us almost a year and a half to get a decent,

it took the vendor we bought the stuff from to get a decent small block or a decent block

that wasn't porous that he could actually machine to make the block.

Then we got the heads and we sent them to our guy and they weren't, they were junk too.

So, you know, that's, that's the other problem too is, you know, what you're sending.

If you're sending, even sending new stuff to a machine shop, they're looking at it going,

you don't want to use this.

You know, this isn't right.

So now you're back in the loop again.

And it's, it's very frustrating that, you know, for, it's frustrating for the

customers, frustrating for us.

And in the meantime, what you're doing is you still have to move along with other jobs.

So what happens is you start working on other stuff.

Well, you can't pull the brakes, you know, pull the reins in on that one, you know,

hoping, you know, and say, okay, stop everything.

I got these heads back for this other job.

You know, this stuff's been pickled off in the corner now for like you said,

five months while they redo something.

So it's, it's very frustrating, very frustrating and not uncommon right now.

Given the price swing of European sports cars, how has that changed the restoration business

in general?

Are you, are you, do you still have as many people coming to you?

Are they putting it off, thinking it'll get better?

Are there cars you refuse to work on due to cost?

I think all of those, Brent.

I think all of those, all of those apply.

It depends kind of on the, on the brand or the mark that you're, you're looking at.

You know, part of, part of, part of that is I've always had this, you know, I've always

had this Venn diagram.

I don't know if I've talked about it on the show before, but, you know, people come to

me and go, Hey, I want to restore this car.

Okay.

What, what, what is it?

You know, and immediately I look at it and go, what's the nicest one on the planet?

And if the nicest one on the planet, you know, is, is less than 50, 70, 70,000 bucks,

you don't want to restore that car.

Cause all the cars that are coming in, the days of having a nice car or restoring it

for 30 grand or gone, not because prices were cheaper, but because you were starting

with a nicer car, typically.

Okay.

Sure.

And, and restorations today, there is no like semi-restaurations.

Those are just calling fixing up your car.

I mean, that's what it is.

You know, it used to be, well, it used to be, you know, you can, you could paint a car

and nobody looked at the door jams, right?

Nobody looked underneath the hood.

Nobody had, oh, it's restored.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

You know, the, the term restoration is not oddly different.

It's just significantly different than it used to be.

People expect the car to be look, look brand new.

Okay.

So, you know, with that in mind, now you're looking at, you know, shop rates that even

at 125, 135, I mean, even when I started, they were at 65, 70, you know, this is 12

years ago and common.

Now my insurance rates have gone like crazy.

My, my rent's kind of gone up.

I have to pay my guys more.

I mean, all the things that all the, all the checks that we write are pretty juicy these

days, you know, fuel, I mean, everything that we use to operate the shop is more expensive.

You know, so, you know, fortunately for me, you know, I don't want to say I don't need

money, but I'm not, I'm not trying to feather my desk for, you know, for the next 20 years,

hoping I can retire one day.

I'm, I'm kind of okay.

So I'm able to reinvest in the business.

I mean, I'm lucky, you know, I have my first communion money.

It's under, it was under my mattress.

That's how I, that's how I, you know, that's how I've survived, but it's, it's interesting.

And so I used to say, you know, I used to, yeah, I used to probably turn down at least

50 to 60% of the people that used to call me at least 40%.

I'll take that back 40% and just say, listen, you don't want to do this car.

I'll find you somebody to either buy it or take it off your hands or, you know, this

car should be junked and shouldn't, you shouldn't even try to do it.

And I think that percentage is going up now because I just tell people, look,

go find a better car.

Don't do this car, find a better car.

Is that, is that how you'd manage expectations going into a, into a restoration?

Without a doubt, without a doubt.

I tell, I tell people, they say, well, how much is it going to be?

I go, it won't be less than 120,000 bucks.

Okay.

Or it's going to be no less than 150.

All right.

Talk to a guy today.

Again, probably a guy we know, you know, and he goes, what do you think?

I go, 200.

It won't be less than 200.

And, and it was a, you know, a Porsche 911, you know, an older T model, but it was a big

rest of my, you know, I'm thinking probably could run a three, depending upon what the car

looked like and, you know, what you're starting with.

But nevertheless, that's where you're at.

And so, you know, I said, that's what it's going to be.

And then they say, well, you know, I need a number.

I go, whether you're not going to get one for me, because at some point, I'm going to

give you a number.

And if it's too low, you're going to hate me.

Okay.

And your wife's going to hate me and everybody's going to hate me in your household, because

I'm going to keep setting a bill every month.

And that's how this works, you know.

And if you're not prepared for that, you know, one month, there might be nothing.

Another month, you know, it might be, we might have all the stars well aligned.

And I'll put two guys on this job to get something done quickly.

You know, and it might be a $20,000 bill.

And your wife is going to hate my guts, because she's not going to, she's, where did this come

from?

You know, it's, I just said, listen, I stay up at two o'clock in the morning.

I do billing.

I did it today.

You know, and I'll tell you, anybody in my business who does billing has that feeling.

You know, you're like, holy cow.

This was a lot of money.

We did, we spent a lot of hours on this guy's car.

I'm not saying it was wrong.

But nevertheless, it's a big invoice, you know.

Man, am I glad I drive old Corvettes that are basic as wooden wagons.

Well, I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

So, you know, it goes out that way.

But I tell people, and that's what people are doing now.

I think they're buying those cars, Brett.

They're not, they're not taking that car that they had and, and restoring them.

You know, if they want a really nice Healy at the, at the, during the day, they do that.

356s are still pretty good.

Alpha Volotis are good.

You got to be kind of selective about the cars that you, that you want to do.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and that's why I say old Corvettes, it's a small block Chevy.

And Jay Leno says, you just fix it with a hammer.

So I'm, I'm glad that's what I'm driving.

And not some of the more sophisticated European stuff.

Well, a lot of those are, you know, basically, you know, tractor engines.

Yeah. Some of those, some of those aren't very sophisticated.

It's hard to come by these days.

A lot of them are titanium on some of these cars.

You know, that's, that's the bigger, kind of the bigger piece.

But, yeah, I don't know.

Yeah. You know, you say that, but I'll tell you what, you know,

you Corvette Cooke's are just as weird, you know, as like, Oh, hey, hey, hey.

What is that a 63 fueling head or is that a 64 fueling head?

Because the 64 fueling heads weren't quite as good as the 63s,

because they float a little differently.

And the valves were like four millimeters of it, you know, what, what, what.

So, you know, you guys, you guys have your own issues.

Okay. Come on. Come on.

Who are you talking to?

I'm the guy who writes about this crap. No kidding.

Yeah. Well, come on.

Okay. Well, what are some of the things people should consider

before jumping into a classic car restoration?

And is it a good idea to get somebody like you

to go with them to look at the car before they buy it?

Without a doubt, you know, PPIs are absolutely, absolutely essential.

Okay. I always tell people, don't, don't ever buy a car.

You can't look underneath.

Okay. If you can't look underneath, don't buy it. Period.

You know, I'm always amazed, you know, I go to, when we go to auctions,

you know, you, like I said, you write about this stuff, you know,

I go to an auction, you're like, you bought the cow without looking underneath it.

People, people buy cars at auctions and send them directly to me.

And then it's, then it's like an amazing moment when we like look under the hood

and open and you know, peel the onion and go, holy cow.

And I tell people, that's the reason, that's the reason they're at an auction.

Okay. I had a guy call me last week. He said, oh, he said,

I'm going to buy this Healy. I go, okay. He goes, it was,

it's been owned for the same family for 52 years.

I go, 52 years. You know what that means? It was neglected for 52 years.

You need, no, it's still in there. It's been handed down. People have been goofing around with it.

I said, at worst cases, that car needs every piece of rubber on that car is junk.

You don't know how long it's been sitting there.

I mean, every piece of rubber on that car is petrified. I guarantee it.

Nobody's renewed that. Nobody's been going through it regularly.

You know, it's like, okay, I want to make it really nice. Well, there you go.

And so that would be like a mechanical restoration. But yeah, you have to do that.

You have to, you know, people have to have a second set of eyes and, you know,

and it's really what you need. Before, you know, before I have a little,

you know, my own little Venn diagram, you know, I do you love this car?

And if you say no, then don't do the car because it'll break your heart at some point.

You know, you got it. It's just a car that has some value to you in one way or the other.

My favorite is a guy, and I mentioned this occasionally, a guy calls and just

what are you going to do? I'm 63 years old. I've been retiring three years and

my wife and I are we're going to, I want to restore this car because we're going to drive

around the country and see the, see it. Does she know this? Does she know this?

Because I got to tell you something. You better have her come on, sit in one of these things

because then let her know that this is what you want to do or you're going to be having a big

surprise. You know, that those concentrates, concentric circles you do after you fix your

car, Brett, where you got to get in the car and you go, okay, I did this big major thing.

I'm going to go two miles away from my house and see if it works.

That's right. That's exactly right.

Five miles away from the house. I was like, wow, that's pretty good.

I'm 10 miles away so far. So good. You know, this is good.

And I got to tell you how many times guys tell me, you know, like,

my wife won't get in this car anymore. I go, I'll come. I go, oh, don't tell me.

It broke down while she was with you and she wasn't happy waiting for Haggerty to come and

pick that car up. Once the little lady has no faith in those vehicles,

Ron is a little different. She's used to your chicanery and Tom Fullery. But

if, you know, for us normal guys, they get in this sweaty, hot little Italian car and they're,

you know, and they're standing by the side of the road completely desolated,

you know, in a completely desolate area. That's not going to happen ever again.

You have one chance on that. You better take advantage of it.

You know, before we got started, we were talking about Monterey and Cindy Mittle

putting on those shows out there and everything. And Cindy tried really,

really hard to get me to drive my 65 Stingray out there. Oh, nice.

And I bought it out in Northern California. So I've driven it home from there and told

Rhonda all the stories about it. And Rhonda will ride in the Corvettes. We can go to MacPherson,

which is about two and a half hours and go down there for the big car show in May and everything

else. I asked her if she would drive to Monterey and she said, no, but you can pick me up at the

San Jose airport. There is an alternative to that. Well, she's got more sense than I do.

I don't, I don't, I don't do it. I, well, you know, I went to, I went to road America last

weekend and I've got a 71 Alpha spider too. And I was like, I should take the spider up there.

Then I have to take it home, which is 80 miles from the shop. So I'm like, okay,

that's an 80, 180 mile drive. And I wasn't worried about it breaking down

as about how uncomfortable I'm going to be when I get there. Cause it's, you know, like

it or not, I'm not quite as sporty as I used to be. So I remember it. Well, you called me one

time you were looking at an SCC, if I'm not mistaken, a Benz. Hey, there's a, there's a 380

SCC on, are you watching the blue over blue one on bring a trailer right now?

No, but that's exactly what I have. But I don't want to sell the car. It's my, you know, my, my,

well, don't get another one. My nerd, my nerd. Yeah, I know. I know this one, I got sorted.

It's only got 75,000 miles. It's my near dual trust fund car.

Grandma bought it for me when I graduated college and I had it ever since, you know,

I just keep driving it. So I took that, you know, and I've got Bluetooth in it and it works and

cruise control and it'll do 90 miles an hour without a problem in the world. And it looked,

it looked right, you know, hanging around up there. We had this same conversation with Mike

Musto a few weeks ago here on the show. When we were discussing what's in your stable right now

and all that and Mike had gotten himself a 560 SEL and he said, he said his minimum

consideration for a daily now because he runs from the Bay Area down to LA a lot was has to be able

to have the cruise set at 90 with the air conditioner set on kill. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And

you know, you're bringing this up and I'm thinking about, okay, what is the farthest

all considered driving that 60 Corvette that solid axle? It's about, it's about two McPherson.

What would I rather take instead? My 99 S 600 every single time. Scott Bluetooth,

really comfy seats, fantastic AC rides like a dream and it's legitimately fast.

And it's quiet. It's quiet. That's the other thing that people people don't realize that

my age, we talked about this yesterday, I've known this 356 C for myself and Ryan says,

before you want me to close in the rear of the cars, you know, and you want to use stock exhaust

or what I go, man, I don't care what it is. All I know is it's got to be quiet. You know,

those days are gone. I don't want to, you know, the old Healy's, oh, I love the way they sound.

They go, yeah, about two and a half hours of that, you know, at 4,000 RPMs. Yep. Not as much

fun as you think it is. Yeah. And the same thing on that 65 Stingray, except it's got side pipes,

it has side mount exhaust. So if your car trip involves a budget for earplugs,

it ain't going to be a fun car trip, man. It's going to stink. No, you just bring a shooting

shooting muffs and call it a day. Yeah. Well, I'm just very, I really like driving stuff for,

you know, like an hour, hour and a half, you know, and it's fine. You know, it's like, it's just not

that much fun anymore. And frankly, most of the cars, you know, even the 65 Stingray, they weren't

made to do that. You know, everybody's moving along at 80 miles an hour now. And if you get

anything less than 70 on the highways around here, you're going to get run over and it's

frightening. Well, also remember in that vintage stuff, when you're doing 80, you're probably

sawing at the wheel pretty good to keep it in the middle of the lane. It's not like that they just,

they stick to the center and they just, Ron and I were in Vail. Now, this has been almost 10 years

ago, but we were out there for the Vail automotive classic and we had hauled that red, that 60 Corvette

out there. And we took it one day and drove down to Eagle. And then we were trying to get back to

Vail without getting on the highway, wound up getting really lost and driving through a couple

of national forests. But it was 70 degrees out and we had the top down and it was gorgeous and we

didn't really care that much how lost we were until we were about out of gas. And we looked around

and found a gas station and then we took a look at the GPS and figured out where we were. And

we were over by Copper Mountain. We were hell and gone from Vail. So we put the top back up and

got on the highway and ran down 70 to Vail, you know, doing 80 because you got to do 80 in the

mountains or you're going to get run over. And it was like I was at Le Mans, man. I was really

working to keep that thing in a lane and keep it going and not get close to anybody. And some gal

in a Mazda SUV passed us drinking coffee and couldn't have been more bored.

And I'm looking at her going, well, there's what 60-odd years of automotive technology

you'll do for you. Well, you don't downhill run when I was running out to California to pick up

that car. I am sweating bullets. Okay, I'm a flat lander. Oh, this little curvy stuff up and down,

you know, everything's, oh, you're pulling a trailer up and down through the mountains.

I was very uncomfortable. Yeah, a little bit. And I'm getting passed by some ice, right? Some ice,

you know, in the right lane, left lane, they don't care. They're just picking a lane. I mean,

I'm sure they drive this thing every day. You know, they're going through the passes and coming

out. Me, I'm, you know, I was mortified sometimes at how fast some of these guys are going through.

And I'm not, I'm not picking my way along at 55. I'm moving along briskly. And I've got my eyes

with this. This is not good at all. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I just, I love driving

these things. I'm thinking when I'm finally done, I'll have like 100, my 100 Healy, which has

disc brakes in the front so you can stop it. Yeah. This 101 Veloce I'll keep. Is that the 356?

Is the Healy the one that's got the, the different chassis underneath?

That's, it's a brand new chassis. I got, I've got a BJA Healy with 100 with a brand new Kilmart

and chassis. Yeah, that's the one. I saw a little video of that today online. That's a cool looking

little car. Yeah, I, the problem is I fall in love with my cars and I should not. I just can't,

and I think you know what I'm talking about. You got, you got more than you should and you look at

and go, and I, and I, if I stay away from them, it's like, you know, maybe, you know, if I stay

away from them, I'm good. And then all of a sudden I, I climb behind a wheel and I go, oh, I remember

why I like this car. Yeah. I can't say I can't get rid of this car. This is, you know, but if I

don't drive that Mercedes for a while, I go, you know what? I got to get rid of this car. Just, you

know, it's, it's terrible. It's just, it's that terrible. It's just, I never use it, you know,

pass it along. And then I get behind a wheel again. I go, I love that big old wheel, you know,

big old steering wheel stuff. Yeah, I do like this. I remember exactly why I'm in love with this.

And I get rid of this thing. I got a couple of cars I do that with. If they're out of sight,

you know, if they're not at home, if they're down at the warehouse for a little while and I don't

see them for a week or two, I'm like, yeah, I can probably do without that car. And then I go down

there and I move it or I drive it for someone like, I can't get rid of this thing. Are you kidding?

It's, it's, it's, yeah. You need therapy for that stuff, I think. I don't know. I'm out of space. I

am. I'm out of, I'm out of space. I was literally, you know, my guys get, you know, when I get really

busy, we're moving my cars around. I can't, I can't put any more lifts in. Yeah. You know,

I'm cheating. I'm just cheating nature here, but I don't know. So I just love them. I love them so

how high is your ceiling? You know, you can do a three-tier lift now.

Yeah, I don't have ceilings that high. I can't do a warehouse. I don't have a warehouse. No,

it's a warehouse basement. Ceilings down there are shy of 10 feet. You can't even get a regular

stacker in, but we've got a lot of floor space. So that works out. How do restoration costs differ

from race prep costs? What are the things people should consider before racing vintage cars?

Cause this is the thing that's got me right now that I keep looking into and go, oh, look at that

flared fenders and big tires and is the investment most different than a quality restoration?

Yeah, it's, you got to look at it differently. You know, quality restoration

and quality restoration is, I don't want to say it's pretty much a one-time deal. Okay. And you

know, I had a, I sold, I sold, I had a buggy sprite that I raised for like 10, 12 years,

probably 12 years, long time. I really liked the car. It was well sorted and I had a lot of

fun with it. It was my first race car. You know, I bought it when I was 40, you know, because I was,

because I was so old then, you know, I may never get a chance to do this.

No, never, baby. No, never. I'm not going to live forever. I need to do this.

All right. So anyway, I bought the car and my friend, my friend Ray called me

and he calls, he goes, yeah, listen, he goes, I'm thinking, you know, and he's a big

Healy guy. He says, I'm thinking of buying a hundred Healy and, you know, racing. I go,

hold on there, big guy. Here's racing. Okay.

See, go to the, go to the, I don't know, go to the bank and get like, I don't know,

$5,000 worth of hundreds, get 50 hundreds and just put them in your left hand pocket

and then walk through the paddock. Okay. And like every hundred feet, take out a lighter,

light it and just roll it away. Roll it away. Okay. And do that until you're out of money.

If that bothers you, do not get into vintage racing. Because $5,000 is nothing. I mean,

you blow up a motor, you know, if you put 10, 15,000 bucks into a motor and for whatever,

you know, dubious reason, it decides to, you know, go south on you. What are you going to do?

You're into another 10 or 15,000 bucks. You got a $40,000 race car. You ball it up.

You know, a guy just balled up into the line. It wrote a miracle last weekend.

Say goodbye to 100,000 bucks because it was a well-prepped car and it wasn't his first

balled up car. He had, that car was rebodied. I know it. I mean, so, you know, there's no

insurance for that. You know, so every time I take my Alpha out, every time I take my BMW

2002 out, whenever I take those cars out, it's like, there's a chance you're going to come back

with, you know, scrap pricing, you know, and that's the deal in, you know, and so it's, you know,

100 bucks. Wait a second. You mean to tell me my Hagerty race day insurance won't replace my race car?

Yeah, I gotta figure out if I can get it into the pad, I can set it on fire because that's the only

thing that they're going to do. Or if it gets stolen on my trailer, I think it gets covered too.

Oh, man. And I do cover that. Everything I own is covered under a Hagerty policy,

believe it or not. No, I do. I mean, I just, I just keep watching vintage racing and SVRA clips

and stuff like that. And I keep seeing those second and third gen Corvette race cars and they

look so stinking sexy. Oh, yeah. But I also know that the second I start doing one of those,

um, my kids and grandkids aren't going to get any inheritance. No one's going to love Grandpa

Brett. Wait, you just have to know, you know, and there's no, I made a note here. You know,

you said one of your, you know, one of the notes we had talked about was, you know,

investing in restoration. Never use the word investment and restoration and racing in the

same area. No, no, sir. No, you don't do that. It's not a conversation that should ever touch

each other. That word should not be used investment. No, it's just, I mean, it's just

something you got to do. But you're right. I mean, there are some cars that are cheaper than

others. You could probably, you know, it's one thing to race a Healy or a Jaguar, and it's a

whole other thing to run a bug eye. That's why so many people are there reasonably. You know,

it's something you can, it's, and it's fun. You know, it's fun to drive a slower car fast. You

know, yeah, it falls back on you. I, I like this, these two trans, the Transambisa dance are two

liter cars. Some you can tell the guys that have put a lot of, a lot of money into them and, and

they're really good drivers. Me, I'm safe. And I've got a pheromone money. I'm not, I'm not over

the top, you know, nobody's nobody's ever gonna, you know, draft me into some type of professional

driving thing. But I have a blast. It's, it's fun. It's, it's, there's a, but there's a bell

curve on racing too. I mean, at 40, you know, and it's not an even bell curve. It's where it goes

straight up, you know, straight up. You can't, you can't spend enough time or money getting to

the track and putting, putting it in your car. You just can't do it. You just, you know, every,

every waking hour. And then you start getting near the top and I'm, I'm, I'm past the top now and

I'm coming down to back end, you know, the backside, a little more gradual, you know, it's kind of a

nice peaceful slope and, you know, like, you know, car broke. Do I have reservations? Where are we,

where's reservations tonight? Do we, do we have enough gin to get through the martini hour here?

You know, that's it. I don't, I don't, we don't, there's a time I'd stay up all night long prepping

for the next day. No, no, no, no, no, no, I, you know, can we get this on the trailer right now

so I can take a shower and clean up? This is starting to sound more like, like I'm more qualified

for lemons racing than racing racing. You know, we're rallying. I mean, there's rallying stuff,

you know, some of these, these tours and stuff, you know, um, you can, you know, call Keith,

he'll put you, he'll bring you. Oh yeah. I've already tried that. My editor told me, well,

I won't tell you what he told me. It was less than friendly.

Oh, come on now. Come on. Not you. Not you. No, Jeff told me, no, you can't, and this is why,

and this is why it costs that much. And there's no break for you. So, no.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he, I asked the question, I posed the question the wrong way. And so the

answer was, was less than pleasant. Anyway, I was, I had dinner, I had dinner one night at

Hilton Head. I was judging and, and I sat next to Keith and we were talking and he says, you know,

he was just gotten into this tour stuff, you know, and he was, you know, he's like, hey,

what about something, you know, what about something, you know, around you? What, what,

what could you do? I go, Keith, you know, you could go through, we could call it the

Thousand Cornfield Tour. You could drive all the way through, all the way through Iowa,

up into Minnesota, and come across the northern, northern, northern Wisconsin.

And never see a city. Yeah. It's just going to be corn everywhere you go. I mean, if, if,

if you got people that don't like it or that love corn, this will be the, this will be the tour for

them. But other than that, we're going back to us being flatlanders, you know. So one nice thing

about going someplace outside of the, outside of the Midwest is there's elevation. Well, it's,

it's why you never see a big tour through Kansas, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio.

Weird. Yeah, the Kansan tour, it's, it's like 800 bucks and it's three weeks long.

And yes, everything's going to look the same as yesterday.

Right. You just keep going in a circle because it all looks the same anyway.

That's right. That's right. My God. We're going to do all four corners of Kansas. You're going to

see three hills. Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be great. You'll see it.

Haven't we been here? How can you tell?

Well, Mark and I keep talking about the best thing for us around here. You know,

Kansas City is reasonably interesting would be like drive to dinner tours, you know,

an afternoon out and back and you never get too far away from home. You can find a little bit of

scenery and then you go eat a good steak somewhere. I think that's about the best we're going to do.

Well, I think, I think there's nothing wrong with that. I sponsored something like that last week.

There's an organization around here called Fuel Fed and Brian and Lorraine Hughes run it and

they do, they do cars and coffee on Sunday mornings and all sorts of, you know,

neat places, you know, they're, they're, it's, it's, it's a pretty regular thing,

but they also have these like short tours. And so we did a British, we did a Whitworth,

Whitworth tour, you know, where we went up to Burlington, Wisconsin of all places, you know,

you rally eight o'clock in the morning and you go up there and you meet and you know,

if you can stay up there and have lunch to what you want to do and then, you know, drive home,

it was a 180 miles round trip for me. Nothing terrible. Again, I had, I had the, I had the

Healy blues though. It's like, it's great on the way up at 70 degrees, 68 degrees. It's lovely.

The air is great and traffic is wide open. And then on the way back, everybody woke up and started

using the road that I want to go home on. I hate you people.

That sounds like every time I have to drive on I 35, I hate you people.

You have no idea. I have, I have a, I have a, I have an 80 mile trip out and a mile trip back

on the days that I go out to the shop and it's, it's kind of fun, you know, most of the time it's

not. It's left lane people from Wisconsin and Minnesota, but it's not I 90, which is, you know,

a big thorough, a big route. Everybody goes from Florida to Washington state, you know what I mean,

to come up across the top of the country. They go up 90 and you can see all the lysis plates and all

the soccer moms with kids and, you know, people with kayaks on the top of their vehicles sitting

in a left hand lane, you know, it's 73 miles an hour in a 70 zone thinking this is fast enough

for you people, you know, back off and it's like, oh, you're killing me. And so you're saying I, I

don't condone road rage, but I certainly understand it. I, I can't, I don't want to say it, but I,

I one day, I don't know what I did. I somehow hit my phone funny. Okay. And, and, and I have,

I had Siri pick up and I didn't know she picked up and I yelled the words, come on M F for and

in full and full throated. Yes. And she, she, I, she, I came back and I didn't realize it.

And I look on my phone and there was a Siri thing going, I don't have a response for that.

I posted that on Facebook. I'm like, look, even Siri hears me now. This is great.

John, don't worry about Siri. Let me tell you how stupid Siri is. And this is no joke. This is 100

percent true. I have Mark's phone number saved in my phone. He's laughing because he's heard this

Siri. Hey, call Mark Groves. She'll say calling Mark 50 Groves. Like, well, wait, wait, wait,

it gets better. Like the, like the Roman numeral. And so one time I pick it up. I said, call Mark

50 Groves. She says, I don't have a number for Mark 50 Groves. I'm cussing at her. And I say, fine,

call Mark L. Groves calling Mark 50 Groves. Oh, you contrary little, yeah. So

Siri is nobody to worry about. She's a dummy anyway.

Yeah. AI is going, is working really well. Thank you. Thank you.

Come on. Come on. You just came back from Monterey car week, like I just came back from Monterey

car week a few weeks ago, where you attended, you attended Pebble Beach for the first time,

the Concour Delegance with your buddy Andy. Why were you there? And what car was being shown?

Tell us what Pebble for the first time was like for you.

Some years ago, Andy is associated with, I mean, I don't know, God probably goes back 10 years.

And he's actually my, I met Andy at Arizona, God, probably 12 years ago. And he had just

started being an insurance guy. And I met him at one of his tours. I think it was at Bonham's.

And anyway, we started talking, and we found each other mutually, you know, goofy. And he,

I gotta tell you, Andy is goofy as he is, and he can be goofy. He's one squirrely guy, but he's,

he is, he is, you know, he's a savant when it comes to like cart facts and stuff.

Holy cow, you know, and he's really interesting. So anyway, we, you know, got together, we were

hanging out. Finally, later in the year, we started talking on a phone, shoot a breeze, and he calls

me and says, Hey, he goes, I've got an extra room, or I got a double room for Hilton had.

I'm judging that weekend. Hey, you want to, you know, you want to share it? Come on. I'm like,

yeah, fine. It was cool. So we would, at the time, we would fly into Atlanta because it didn't

have a, I'm claustrophobic. And I can't, of all the things, you know, I can't fly a little airplane.

So I said, I couldn't get into Savannah on a little on a bigger plane. I had to go to Atlanta.

He met me there. We would rent crazy cars, budget there has five speed cars. So one year we had

one of those skip pack for four or four Hemi, whatever. And another time we had a Hemi CUDA.

So we buy it, we'd rent these cars and then like haul ass across Georgia, you know, to go to Hilton

had. So we did that for a few years. And, you know, we've been kind of going to different ones. And then

we went to, we went to Amelia together a couple of times. And then

in the meantime, he, he gets involved with this guy, Miles, Miles up in, up in

Maine, who owns a classic car museum. So Miles knows, try it was buying and working through

Andy on a couple of cars. And anyway, he, he, Miles said, Hey, I like to take a couple of the

cars. And he's got some cool cars. He's got an old Alfa Romeo, you know, 60. He's got a Ferrari,

one of the first ones ever made. It was like, I don't know, I have to kind of remember the number

on it. I'm not digging on all the early, early Ferrari stuff. Anyway, so he, you know, he calls

me, he goes, Hey, he goes, here's the deal, Miles wants me to show this car, would you come out

and be the mechanical lead for it? But of course he goes, just so he put us up. And we didn't have

to do VRBO at Amelia. He put us up, Miles puts us up at the Ritz, which is perfect, you know,

right? I mean, so he puts us up at the Ritz and then, you know, I go in early and Andy goes in

early, we take the car off the trailer, they prep the car, kind of, you know, and then we inspect

it and look at it and try to get together. So we kind of got this thing where we, this is like the

third. Yeah, this is the third, we did a Hudson last year. This is, we did three Amelias and now

Miles wanted to do pebble. So Andy calls and says, you want to go to pebble? And I'm like,

yeah, man, I don't know. It's like, you know, in the middle of everything, if Miles is paying for

everything, I go, I couldn't get on that plane fast enough, right? I'm like, okay, let's go.

So, but I thought it'd be fun. So it was a dual gear. There's a whole story associated with it.

It's a 55 dual gear. There was a company called dual motors here in here in Chicago that that

was doing these gear body Chrysler 300s. Okay. And that's what this car was. There was a dark,

they call it DART 400. Somehow the guy at dual here in Chicago ended up with this Chrysler

show car. And all he did with the car, all he did with it, that it was a gear body car, was he

changed the hubcaps and the insignia on the front. It was now a dual. Okay. It's pretty cool. It's a

one of one car, one of one car. And it's like, like the looks or not, it was kind of interesting. So

that's how we, that's what we took out there. And all the other cars we brought out, you know,

the Ferrari, it's got a clutch the size of a hockey puck with it, you know, I'm like, yeah,

do you want to go on the tour? I don't know. Let's, let's just make sure we can get out to the lawn

and back, you know, because a lot of these cars haven't been driven alive. They don't have a lot

of, you know, like use usable miles on them. So, but this one came in and it's, this is a solid car.

So this came in, I kept calling him, I call him, I go, Hey, you know, let it sit and idle, see

what happens. Nothing car idles, it does this, it stops, it goes, I'm like, okay. And if you go to

pebble, he got it in there because it was, what's the guy's name? This is my uncle Elzheimer visits

me now. Who is it? Who is the guy? There was a guy, the designer.

Oh, hang on a second. I get it in a second. Shit, I'm going to have to look this up.

See, I'm doing this. At least I don't feel terrible. Anyway, the designer, it was all about him. That

was one of the categories in cars. So Andy got an invitation to go there and quite frankly,

an invitation to pebble is pretty slick. I mean, it was cool. So if you're going to go there,

what's that? Virtual Xmer. Exactly. Yeah. I live on Exeter Court. You think I'd be able to pull

that one? So, so anyway, um, so Miles wanted to, you know, why, Miles wanted us to go out there

and he wanted to show the car and it was cool. And it was cool. So, um, we went out there early,

car got in on the transport, we pulled it off. And it was Miles, Miles's son and Andy and I

went on the tour on Wednesday. And I don't know, you know, as I said earlier, sometimes you just

get tired of cars, you know, and you go, you get a little jaded, you know, like, hey, you know,

I got to tell you something. You know, we come hauling out of that thing going down the, going

down the road, whatever that is there. And I swear to God, right? There must have been 5,000

people standing there with cameras and waving and she heard it. Yeah. It was crazy. I had never

seen it from the other side. So all I've seen it from is like the recipient side, talking about

Rockstar stuff. You know, it was way cool. And I'm sitting in the back on, this is fine for me,

baby. I'm okay with this. This is pretty cool. Andy could have been happier. You know,

goofy. He is anyways, he was just like in his moment. It was he was in his element.

Oh, sure.

Big steering wheel. You know, I was like, if you get a little cigar, he'd have been the happiest

guy in the planet. So anyway, it was it was cool to do that. It was cool to do that. And,

and you know, you get down to the back, you get down to the end. We got behind.

We got behind a couple of cars that said, I'm out of here. And he went around some of the slower

cars. So we had a really nice 50 mile an hour drive. We didn't get stuck behind cars because

you really can't do any passing there. It was kind of kind of difficult. What a great drive that was.

It was just really fun. And, you know, every once in a while, you come up upon a, you know,

a gaggle of people off on the side, you know, and they're just, I don't think anybody in California

works anymore. You know, they almost work from home and like sneak out for, you know, what are

you going to do? I'm going to go take pictures of crazy cars, right? Driving down the road.

And it was fun. Came back, came back up, came back up around and had a few pictures and it was

a blast. It was a blast. It was not to be not to be missed. I'm glad I went there for that.

And then, you know, and then came the pebble day. And, you know, we can't we got up and

at four o'clock in the morning, right? Four o'clock in the morning. And Andy's always like,

ah, you know, you know, he's always like, oh, yeah, we're going to have to get up early. I go,

how early? I don't know. I go, four. He goes, four. I go, okay, you, you get up at four. I'll get up

at four 15. You can start showering. Okay. We've done this before. So, but, you know, then he's up,

you know, he's up like, you know, at 11 o'clock. I'm like, what are you doing? He's terrible,

terrible at, at, at, at Amelia because he sits on the bar and he sits out there. He doesn't

drink either. You know, he's, you know, a friend of Bill. So he's, you know, he's cool. He doesn't

sit up. He doesn't get back to the room till midnight. I'm like, what are you doing? I can't do

that. You know, I kind of like sleep a little. I'm getting older than him. So anyway, so he,

we got up at four and we went over there and got the car and we got in line. We were like the

maybe fifth or sixth car in line to go down out to the, out to the field. And I got to tell you

the same kind of thing. You know, there's people lined up. There must have been a thousand people

there out on the lawn, you know, dawn patrol, wait for cars to come through. And it's, it's

a sight to behold. I have to tell you, it was, it was way cool. I mean, I really, I couldn't thank

Andy and Miles enough for the opportunity to do that. And, you know, we found a nice spot. There's

like one tree. There's like one tree on all of the pebble beach golf course that we, we were able

to park our butts under and kind of watch the show go by. We didn't, we didn't win anything, but

same old stuff. It's like, you know, listen, that I was even, you know, if you were, if you're

invited, you're a winner. Yeah, you got to go. Oh yeah. I, I couldn't, I couldn't thank them enough,

you know, for the opportunity to do that. I'm like, this, if you're going to go,

I did it the deluxe way, you know, I did it the deluxe way. The most exclusive concourse in the

country all stinking year long and you got to go, that makes you royalty. It was for, it was for

like a week. But I got to tell you, logistically, it was a nightmare. Like you said, we were talking,

you know, it was, and you know, and it's like, whoa, you got to go now because if you know,

you wait 20 more minutes and, and I never, I never made it. There was a lot of things I didn't see.

What's the, what's the one? There's a couple of big, there's a couple of big parties, party deals.

You know, one is, oh yeah, the one at motor, motor locks at the jet center. Yeah. That's like,

that was like 1500 bucks or something. It was, it was 650 a ticket. So there you go. Yeah. So it

would have been 1300 for the pair of you. That's ridiculous. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And

then, and then the other one during the day, the quail quail was like 1500 bucks. I want to say

quail stuff. Hey, John, tell me next year you and I'll go as representatives from driven media.

There you go. Well, there you go. I had passes to everything. Really? Yeah, I did. We didn't,

you know, we didn't get into much. And the one thing I'm, do you know Mike Silverman?

And I don't, I know the name, but I don't know Mike. Yeah, he was, he was the

vintage motorsport magazine. His, his dad was a, he's a good buddy of mine. And his dad was,

used to be a publisher of Variety magazine, newspaper, magazine, whatever. So Mike, you know,

Mike's been in the business for a long time. And anyway, he was racing a car. He was racing

a car at the WeatherTech track that week. And I didn't get a chance to get over to see him.

So we finally, we had dinner one night. That was nice. It was, you know,

at some point, you get, even with a week of cars, you got to kind of walk away for a few

minutes and be like, just hang out. Well, and that's why we do that beach house out in Watsonville

is, yeah, granted, you got to drive back and forth. But at the end of every day, when you've

had enough Monterey to, to last year and you fought the crowds and everything else,

you drive out to Watsonville and you're on the beach. Yeah. And there's, there's none of that.

And so when you get up the next morning, you're like, okay, we can go do this again, because we

had a chance to decompress and do our thing. And if you're lucky enough to have a day where you

don't have to go back, you can go goof off. Well, we stayed, we stayed at a place. I was,

I thought it was the other thing was like, I had, I had spent a long time since I had seen

the likes of a tourist destination like that. You know, I'm trying to remember where we stayed.

We stayed, it was called the Star, Stargazer Inn. Okay. And if it was down in LA, it would have

been a place where, you know, hookers go to die. It was one of those like courts, you know, like

the two story, you know, with a court in the middle, and then they, you know, it looked like

something out of like some bad cop story, you know, police story, cop show or something. I was

like, wow, look at this place. So we're looking out the window going, there's just got to be drug

deals going on down there. And it was actually a very, very nice place. And the only, the only

problem was they waited too long to get the room. So we got these rooms, they weren't cheap. They

weren't inexpensive at all. So there was nothing we had these rooms. And so Andy and I had each

had a, it was, it was a quote unquote sweet, you know, okay, it was really basic two bedrooms.

And our friend Peter came in, and he stayed with us. And we said, okay, let's get, let's go get Peter

a bed or a mattress. And what they brought in was like this like dog bed, okay, that he had to sleep

in. Wow, man, you look like a German shepherd.

I felt terrible for him, you know, so weird. But it was, yeah, I'm like, I'm getting too old for

that too. That's the other thing is like, Oh, here, you just sleep on a floor.

I've done that. I've done it drunk or sober. I don't sleep on floors anymore.

It hurts too bad the next morning for that one.

Yeah, but it was again, it was a blast. It was a blast. And again, I don't know.

And that's the other thing was people coming up. Hey, you know, what year is this for you?

You know, it was like, we were supposed to trade chips or something. I'm like, what, what?

He goes, Oh, this is my 30th year here. Where? You know, oh, pebble, I've never missed a year.

And I'm like, wow, holy cow, you know, every year. And it's, you know, it's a big thing.

So I, you know, I'm happy. I went, I'll see what next year looks like based on how much

business I have and how busy I am. But, you know, I'll do it again. But now I gotta tell you,

what you you have the decompression show the day before pebble, you were a judge over at Concord

of Lemons. I was. I was Ellen's, Ellen's folly. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, that was fun. That was fun,

too. Yeah, there was, uh, yeah, I guess, um, um, uh, uh, a classic motorsports magazines

involved in that now too. So Tim was there and, and Tom was there and all the, you know, the

the Suddards were, you know, making things happen. And it was, it's becoming quite a little deal. They

classic, classic ran a show last year. You know, there used to be a show downtown

and on the, on the, on the, uh, uh, on the street and exotic on Broadway. Yeah. And, and

Andy kind of organized it the year before. And then for some reason there was a problem with it

this year. Some local guy was, you know, arguing or pitching about it or something. So they pulled

the plug on it and, um, so they, they, you know, classic decided to just support Ellen's deal with,

you know, with, with, uh, Lemons. So, and that was just as much fun. It was fun. But, you know,

that was another one I was hoping to hope, hoping we could get, we could do. That would have been

okay. It was fun. Well, I'm looking through some of the pictures. Uh, God, what the hell is this

galaxy glider thing? And I saw that the day before over at Radwood. So, uh,

Oh, the silver, the silver one the guy made or the, yeah. And we were looking at that wondering

about it, but it didn't have any kind of a description card or anything. So it was just,

it looked like a flying saucer. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

We had a, we had an Asian kid. It was about 18 years old and he had a pickup truck that was made

from a, uh, like a 1974, 1975 Lincoln Mark four. Okay. Oh, somebody just cut the top off and

pulled it back. But when they, and he didn't do it, he didn't do it. He actually bought this car.

Okay. And this is like his third car like that he's bought. He, he, he was like hilarious. He's

like, he was so proud of this thing. He's like, and he was like a shy little kid, little guy

when he was kind of proud of his 18. I go, how, you know, he goes, yeah, I bought my first one

before I had a driver's license. He won. He, or at least he, he won our, our class. The other thing

you did while you were in Monterey is you were a judge over at Concord to Lemons and, uh, we lost

sound for a second. So we're coming back. Tell us about the kid who had the, I'm looking at the

thing right now. It looks like it's a 78 Lincoln Mark five Ranchero. Yeah. Oh yeah. It was,

it was, it was a sight to behold. I mean, all the other ones like were normal. I mean, this was

not normal. This was, this was the spirit of Lemons. This is, this is what I live for. You know,

I'm like, yeah, yeah, this is cool. But the kid didn't do it himself, but it was more proud that

he actually like hunted it down, you know, and found it and negotiated with a guy for this thing.

Like you, you think he, you know, he had like a 456 Ferrari there the way he was talking about it.

And he was so into it. And I'm like, yeah, this kid deserves to win. And, uh, yeah, we represented

him. I mean, his girlfriend was there. She was sitting in the back. I thought one of them would

have tetanus. It was like, holy cow. That's interesting. And he had like, you know, that

the Lord interior, you want to was new, you know, this stuff's like, what, 40 some years old now,

50 years old. You're like, oh my goodness. And he liked it. He says, my dad is really unhappy

with me because I bring these things. Do you blame them? You know, but nope, nope, no, we reward

that. You know, when you, when you judge lemons, you reward that kind of behavior. And it was good.

They were, they were bribing us with things. And, you know, when you judge lemons, they, they bribe

you with, with cookies and weird stuff. And you're like, yeah, I'm not eating that. I'm sorry. I,

I have some kind of hallucinogenic moment for the whole afternoon. Oh yeah. Not in your life. I

no, no, no, no, no. Thank you so much. You know, hey, what's a moonshine? Yeah, I don't think so.

So this is what Ranchero could have been if they'd had a luxury version. Oh, without a doubt.

It's kind of a silvery color, isn't it? I'm looking at one that's a big red sucker.

Maybe that's the one. I don't know. And in my mind, if I wanted to perfect it, I would have painted

it silver. So I look at these things. That's awesome. I love it. So was it, is it worth going

back? Will you go again? I will. Without a doubt. Without it, I'll do some changes. I,

you know, I love hanging out with Andy. But we should either, you know, and even rooming together

would be fine. But, you know, hanging out with having one car just was on that was

you gotta have a second car. I would have rented one. I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't cheap. We just

thought it's cool. Now you got to get a second car and I'll tell you what, if we wind up doing

the beach house again next year, I'll start putting together our team a little earlier so you can

have a stab at it. So that would be good. That would be good. I just like I said,

it's just a crazy time of year. But yeah, keep in mind, that'd be great. I will. Absolutely.

Okay. So we usually wrap the show up by asking the guest, what's the dumbest thing you've been

in a car? But you've been out here so many times that we can't really ask you that one anymore.

So since it's been almost three years since we had you on, I'll ask you, what's the dumbest thing

you've done in a car in the last three years? Or what's the dumbest thing you've seen someone

else do in a car? Good. Just, just tonight, by the way, some guy starts to do a U turn right

while I'm turning into the intersection. And he looked up at me and his eyes got about, you know,

doubly big. Holy cow. And he's hitting the brakes and I'm hitting the brakes. But I, but I remember

that question. I'm thinking, huh, I'm thinking, well, Brett, my wife's a left foot breaker, Brett.

Oh, no. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Which means she's got the right foot halfway down most of the time

and break it once the other foot. And yeah, you remember that Elaine Bennett stance, you know,

that's, that's what you do, you know, in my, in the passenger seat of my wife's car if she drives.

And I, I either have to have like, I either have to be coming back from a colonoscopy or something

that's anesthetized me in some way to, to that silliness. You know, true, true story. I hope

she doesn't, I don't think she'll make it. If she, if she sees this, she won't make it all the way

through. So this is, I'm pretty safe back here. Okay. So we went to, I just had surgery. I had

surgery on my face for my, for this melanoma thing I had like six years ago. And I had to go back

to the doctor. And I was on a significant amount of pain pills, right. And so, but she was driving.

And so on the way down, I said, listen, you know, you got to either slow down or,

you know, do something because this is, I'm doing this, you know. And so we got there and I go,

listen, this is another personal either I drive home or I'm taking an Uber home. And this wasn't

like near, okay, the house. I'm like, nah, I'm not, I'm not doing it. You know, I will, I will

swear off painkillers for the next, you know, next four days, but I'm driving home tonight.

I'm sorry. I got it. I'm not going to do that. So yes, I actually drove home because I was going

to take an Uber. I just wasn't going to do it. I couldn't take it. It was more than I would do. So

she just even laughs. He's like, Oh, you want me to drive? And I just, I sit in the backseat

sometimes if she's going to drive me down to pick up my car from the shop or something. It's like,

I can't look. I don't even want to be in her. Just put the dog in the front seat. No matter

the dog. I don't know. Apparently it's a dog. Luckily they don't know how to drive. So

he's happy there. I'm not. It's not a good thing. So yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't do well.

Anybody else is fine. That's, that's one person I just can't drive with because it's always silly

shit. So yeah, anyway. Yeah. Mark and I may or may not have a mutual friend who owns a garage

in Merriam who is also a left foot breaker. Is he? Yeah, he is. And I'm not going to say his name

out loud because he's got my, he's got my red Corvette right now. But damn, is he a handsome guy?

Just drop that in there. Damn handsome guy knows exactly what he's doing. Yeah. And we love you,

we've been speaking with John Sacramento of Sport and Specialty. John,

please tell us where we can find you online and on social media.

Well, you can find the real John Sacramento at John Sacramento. He's got more than one friend,

I guess. I just, you know, as I just found out I have a second social media accounts. Always fun

to hear that. Or www.SportAndSpecialty.com. I'm a little bit behind in postings,

but there's still some cool stuff on there. And my social media is still John Sacramento.

And I have a Sport and Specialty page too and Instagram and all that. But I keep the regular

John Sacramento one kind of updated with, you know, cool car stuff and animals and dogs and a

few laughs, no politics. And, you know, I keep it clean and neat and, you know, I want you to join

up and I'll keep you occupied. Okay. Here's the promise I'll make to you, pal. It won't be three

years next time. Yeah. Next time you get bored, give me a call. Mark, Mark, you've changed somehow

from, you know, Mark Elgroves to Brett Hatfield on my... Well, he does that. I don't know what you

guys did, but, you know. It looks that way because my microphone runs through the board. It doesn't

run through the computer. So you're seeing my picture, but it's on, he's on my Zoom account.

Yeah, because your microphone is, your microphone is like X'd out or put it out.

Well, that's, that's because I can't have my, my computer picking up any of the sound.

So that's the way my friend. Oh, it's just a little bit of, just a little bit ahead cold,

but I'm going to get it taken care of tomorrow morning. As always, John, thank you for being

on with us. We love having you on. Even more than that, I like having you and Andy together so I

can get you guys to harass each other. That's real entertaining. Well, we can, we will do it

two of us next time. So he, neither of us can like, you know, can, can bogart the...

I like how everything's changed now. We've got Biffnut house.

Let's expand this. We've got Sacky McSackface and I'm the meat hammer. Thank you very much.

Thanks, John. Bye-bye guys. All right. Well, first things first, I didn't realize until I started

writing this up that it had been three years since we talked to John. That's been a while.

And it's entirely too long because he's too much fun when you have him on the show. Good guy.

He is fun. He does have a great sense of humor. He's obviously a pragmatist when it comes to

doing restorations, you know? No, don't, don't do that. You'd be better off buying one than that.

It's kind of nice to have Sony that's like, that won't just look at you go, oh, sure. Yeah,

we do that. Oh, yeah. You're made out of money, let's say. Yeah. That was it. Yeah, I can fix it

no matter how much it costs. Yeah. Well, again, our buddy, the left foot breaker. Yes.

But it's nice of him to be honest and to be upfront about, no, this is going to cost a lot.

I can't mention his name and razz him too much right now because he's got my Red Corvette in his

shop. I sent it down there to take. I bet he gave you that look. No, no, no. I didn't even,

I didn't take it in. I called him. He didn't go full metal. You were on it? Oh, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no. I called him last week or two weeks ago. I told him what was going on. I asked him when

he had time. He gave me a date and I got up this morning called AAA, had them come collect it and

take it down there. Honest to God, the brakes on the back of it have gotten bad enough that I thought

it might not be safe to drive. Wow. Yeah. And you know, I'll drive any stinking things. So

now what are they doing? Are they just mushy or are they locking up or all of the above?

Steel on steel, I'm thinking. Oh, shit. Yeah, that's bad. No, it is. Oh, shit. Hey, Sparky.

So anyway, I just sent it to him on a truck and I gave him the crap about, well, you don't have to

worry about anybody stealing the catalytic converters off of it. And he said, you know,

since the one guy who was financing every catalytic converter theft in the metro KC area,

since they found him and arrested him and threw him in the clink, he says, nobody steals them

anymore. Seriously? Yeah. I wish they'd have done that earlier. They did it in my, my first born's

car too. I think SOB's. I think if I remember correctly, they said when they arrested this guy,

there were 2,000 catalytic converters in his garage and in his basement and in his house,

had him stacked in different rooms. There's a special garage in hell for this guy. Yeah. And

I'm hoping that, you know, he has to lay under the car that keeps being shoved off the lift.

And I hope it's a navigator.

Oh, God, that's so annoying. Anyway, we'll fix it no matter what it costs. Anyway, John, always,

we're always thrilled to have you on the show. I promise it won't be three years next time.

The fact that it had been three years. Man, that flew by. I couldn't believe it had been so long.

And also, we need to have Andy Reid on and then we need to have John and Andy on together

because it's so much fun to listen to the two of them give each other crap. Yeah.

And I just enjoy that. I could sit here and, you know, have an adult beverage and listen to them.

So anyway, thank you for being on with us again, John. And thank you so much,

all of you for spending time with Driven Radio. We love what we do and we wouldn't be able to do

it without the support of our listeners. You can find us online at drivenradioshow.com. Follow

us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at Driven Radio Show and on LinkedIn as Driven Radio Show

podcast. If you have a story you'd like to tell or someone you would like us to interview, please

contact me at Brett, B-R-E-T-T at drivenradioshow.com. I am Brett Hatfield for Mark L. Groves.

Thank you for listening. And as soon as we get my voice fixed,

we'll see you next time on Driven Radio.

God, I hope they figure out what this is.

Straight shooter, great communicator, honest mechanic, champion disco dancer.

One of these descriptions is a flat out lie. The rest accurately described Daryl Ossipic,

owner of Ossipic Automotive. Yeah, we've been teasing him for a long time. Daryl has been a

really good friend and a personal mechanic for me for longer than I cared about. Geez, man.

He's been working on my stuff forever. I've taken my vintage Bronco in there. I've taken my Corvettes

in there. I even have had the Schadenfreude Express in there. You got him to work on that?

He's worked on that 99 Mercedes S600 and done a really good job on it. Mark's even gone to Daryl

for car repair. Yeah, that's 64 Dodge that I whine about. He was the one that got it running and

moving after I bought it and it ended up not running and moving. It was a little different than

the test drive. Don't get me wrong. It ran good for the test drive. Yeah, it was great then. Plus,

he put the transmission in that I bought for my 2000 Nissan XTERRA 4x4. Ossipic Automotive does

maintenance and repair on foreign and domestic petrol powered autos. He also works on some diesel

stuff I've seen in there. If he can do it, he'll tell you. Yeah. If he can't, he'll tell you,

but I haven't found anything that he can't work on yet. The guy works on cars, he works on a

giant offshore raceboat. He can do about anything and he'll tell you up front what he's going to do,

how we're going to approach the problem, what he thinks it might be and if he can't do it,

he'll tell you who can. Yeah. He's an internal combustion whisperer who thinks running sucks

for exercise but he rules behind the wheel and he's also got some fantastic taste in his own

personal stuff. Oh yeah. You would never guess at looking at him. He looks like a mild-mannered

mechanic. He's got interesting stuff of his own. Ossipic Automotive doesn't have a website,

so you'll have to look up the reviews. 4.9 stars out of 5 on Google, 4.8 out of 5 on Yelp.

Call Darrell at 913-831-3613. What's that number? 913-831-3613. And you got to remember his motto,

Ossipic Automotive, where they'll fix your car no matter how much it costs.

He's going to kill me. He's going to kill me. I promised him I wouldn't tell anybody he says that.

Where is he? We know where to go to be killed. 5920 Merriam Drive in Merriam, Kansas, 66203.

We've known Rick Hunter and the gang at Hot Rod Express and Blue Springs for years. We first saw

their work at car shows, and then we had to buff out the drool that we left on their work at the

car shows. And we've had Rick on both Road Muscle Radio and Riven Radio shows several times to talk

about cars and projects and the other cool stuff that was going on over at Hot Rod Express. So,

when disaster struck in the form of the sweetest little lady in Overland Park.

Who did I turn to to do the body repair on my 65 Corvette Stingray?

Hot Rod Express. These guys did a hell of a job. They aren't the cheapest and there's a reason.

They're the best. They made the body look better than it did before. That is not an exaggeration.

And they even sourced the right emblem so that it was model accurate. Hot Rod Express is crawled

under the hood to fix weird and dangerous alternator issue that tried to burn the car.

And they've recently installed new running gear. Well, new suspension, both ends of it.

And it rides so much better and it drives better and it's not trying to rattle my

eye teeth out. And I still have the fillings in my teeth. Yeah, I was kind of happy with the ride

we took in it. That was nice. Yeah, well, I'm telling you, it's not quite as harsh as it used to was.

Since 1995, Hot Rod Express has been doing Concord Caliber frame off restorations, award

winning Resto mods and everything in between. In fact, after they painted the Stingray,

they had it down at Bartle Hall for World of Wheels. Oh, yeah, yeah. My car won first place

for domestic sports car. Oh my God. So when we say award winning restorations,

that's not an exaggeration. First hand. I got one of them. So if you can dream it on four wheels,

they can do it. Visit hotrod-express.com or call them at 816-224-9597. Ask for Rick and tell him

Driven Radio sent you. Don't worry, he won't hold that against you. They're super easy to talk to

and they've never met a stranger. Hot Rod Express on Forty Highway in Blue Springs, Missouri at

Hot Rod Express. They make friends fast.

Driven Radio Show #321: John Saccameno of Sport and Specialty

About this episode

Maserati Ghibli

Alfa Romeo Spider

Alfa Romeo Julias

Porsche 911

Chevrolet Corvette

Porsche 356

Honda S600

Plymouth Cuda

Ford Ranchero

Ferrari A456 Ferrari

Ford Bronco

Nissan XTerra

Corvette Stingray

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