Driving Ferrari 849 Testarossa, Ravage A110 & steering by wire | Episode 38

if you want to go to the poshest and most interesting

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Yeah.

Steady off.

Interesting, yes, posh.

Hello, and welcome to the Evo podcast.

James Taylor with you, and I'm joined by Sam Jenkins.

Hello.

John Barker.

And Dickie Meaden.

Hello.

And this episode, we're gonna be talking all about

the Ferrari 849 Testarossa,

which Dickie has been driving in Italy.

And Sam had a go as well.

And Sam, yeah, both of you guys.

So if you get smuggled in under the guise of videographer.

Pretty much, yeah.

And we'll also be catching up on the Lamborghini Temerario

as well, which John's been driving in Italy.

But before we get into those cars,

Dickie, you've been driving a very French car in...

I have, yeah.

Now there was another job just before Christmas.

But I've sort of been following this company

on Instagram for quite a while, actually.

It's called Ravage.

And they basically completely rework the A110

from a stylistic point of view.

It's their interpretation of what a Group 4

rally version of the A110 would look like.

So it's wider body, wider arches, bigger wheels, bigger tyres.

They also do some tuning upgrades,

so brake packages and engine modifications.

And they also do beautiful retrims of the car.

So it's not a rest-o-mod.

It's sort of because there isn't any restoration work involved,

but it's that kind of vibe.

So it's slightly backdated, but still very contemporary.

It's quite hard to explain.

If any of the UK viewers, listeners,

were at the latest Bista scramble,

there's one of the cars there.

It was the first time it's been in the UK,

but it certainly drew a huge amount of attention.

It looks fantastic.

It looks so good.

Yeah.

The detailing on that car.

I mean, that car was black, I think.

So it didn't stand out quite as much as the green car.

It was black with sort of soft gold polished,

yeah, like diamond turned and soft gold rims.

But the more you looked at it,

the more you saw the details.

There was a, there's a Nacoduct, an inset Nacoduct,

but is carbon fiber within that Nacoduct?

I assume all the bodywork is.

Yeah.

And then I had black, a black sort of turbo,

like a turbo two Renault five type graphic

along the bottom of the door.

But that's black.

So you didn't immediately notice it.

And then the interior of this customer car,

and actually one of the cars we drove,

Aston and I went out and drove two cars in France

on the Calda Torini,

but the black car at Bista was retrimmed

like a turbo one Renault five.

So bright red leather and bright red

and blue velvet velour pattern,

which is the same material as turbo one.

So it's beautifully done.

I think there's two kind of interesting points

about the car.

One, they're messing with a car that's already pretty well.

They've nailed it, haven't they?

Alpine with that car and we love it,

whether it's the base car or the old team

and everything in between.

So you kind of initially you're slightly,

oh, is it gonna mess the car up?

The other surprise or area of intrigue

are the people behind it.

So there's a guy called Benoit who founded the company

with a colleague Vincent.

Vincent is the engineer.

Benoit is the designer,

but he has a real kind of OE design studio background

and pedigree which explains why it's so meticulously done.

So he was most recently was at McLaren.

Prior to that was at Mercedes.

Then I think he worked at Renault before that.

So he's just got that eye for detail

and he loves the original car.

So he has great respect for it.

But yeah, his eye for lines and form

and annoying, I spoke to him about this when we were in France

and then it's just stuck in my mind.

He pointed out there's an awkward angle on the car

which I hadn't seen,

but now it's all I ever noticed.

It's the relationship between the rear window

and the roof line.

And so he picks out,

he's not without criticism for the car,

but it's a really, really lovely thing.

And how does it drive compared to a normal A1 type?

Dynamically, does it feel very...

It feels very OE actually.

It was sort of OE plus.

So we drove the two cars we had for the feature

which is in the next issue of Evo.

So there was one which was broadly cosmetic.

So the body, wheels and tires

and the wild looking car.

So it was done in a, if any of you

a Renault Rally Competition car geeks,

then it's the Philips car audio,

Grunby Renault 5 turbo livery.

So red, white, blue, very kind of primary color livery,

painted, no decals.

So it was just perfect.

And that car had some engine remap work as well.

So it was quite a bit angrier and more vocal.

But yeah, in essence, they still steer really nicely.

It rides really, really well.

It flows down the road really well,

but you're just in this car that feels and looks

just, it's a proper baby exotic kind of super car now.

But that stays true to all the Alpine qualities

and kind of DNA, I think.

It's a very interesting project.

Benoit couldn't say he was involved,

like his employers knew.

So it was like his side hustle way.

So the reason they're now able to talk more about it

is because he's left McLaren

and he's working full time on the Ravage project.

So a huge step for him.

But he's finally able to be out on the open

and say, this is my baby.

And the same with Vincent.

And he works with lots of people who were still involved

within the industry.

They've got a very, very close relationship

with Alpine.

I think Alpine enjoy what they've done to the car.

So they're not, they don't feel threatened by it

because it's something they weren't going to do.

So yeah, it just has the look and feel

of a really special car.

They've built 15, I think 15 customer cars

already quietly over the last couple of years.

So cars are built.

I can't remember the name of the race team,

but there's a very high level modern

and historic race prep team in France

that they have a dedicated area in the workshops

and they do all the work.

So they have a kind of jig to take the bodywork off

and apply the new bodywork and they'll set the car up

and they have special trimmers.

And it's, yeah, it's a lovely thing, really special thing.

And the people behind it are very nice.

Yeah, as well.

They're true enthusiasts and very, very, very good

at what they do.

And while you were shooting it, you bumped into a classic.

Well, we did.

Yeah, we went to the Calda Torini,

which is the one of the most iconic stages

of Monte Carlo rally in this very strong associations

with Alpine, A110, original like Berlinette cars

of the 60s and early 70s.

So we were driving along and it was amazing weather,

like late autumn, early winter weather,

but it felt more like autumn,

amazing how it was on the trees, beautiful sunshine.

And we literally, it was like they closed the road.

There was no one there, no one at the top,

no one at the bottom and probably a dream.

Throwing out some locals picking mushrooms or something.

You know, so quiet.

So we were bombing up and down in these great cars.

So the rally livery car and a bright, bright green car.

And yeah, it was a special couple of days.

I think the kit, I don't know exactly how much the kit is.

It's around 100,000 euros, I think.

That's going to rise.

So it's, you know, it's a significant amount of money,

but for, and I think there's layers as ever,

that you kinda start with that with wheels and body

and I'm not sure how much of a re-trim you get.

And then I think there's brake package

and had engine package on top of that.

But I think considering you can get a car

for 30-ish thousand, you can get an early,

it's still quite a lot of money,

but honestly, when we were,

I know you were at Scramble as well,

but it really, considering it was a black car

on quite a grim day, it just seemed to draw people in.

And even if I hadn't first noticed it,

they'd sort of double-take and then they'd be all over it.

So it's really got some something about it.

It fits in to a million pound singer quite well.

There is that, but there is very much that.

Singer A1Tab.

I know Singer is always the benchmark

and it's used appropriately,

or it's a rather ambitious name to associate your product with,

but it certainly works with a Ravage car, I think.

So yeah, I'm hoping,

gotta keep saying this,

don't know about our track days,

but I think Benoit will bring a car

to one of the track days probably Goodwood in the summer.

Fantastic.

Because I think he had quite a lot of interest

from people that knew what it was,

but had never seen one.

So I spent a day before Scramble driving around

bits of London and meeting a few people there.

And it's one of those cars that's got people's attention

and actually their imagination, I think.

But there's nothing quite like it.

There's nothing like the Alpine A110 in the first place,

is there?

And then this car sort of sits in a,

like Sam said, you kind of view it

like a very special Resto mod.

But in the Resto mod world,

that's small change, isn't it?

So I wish, I think it's gonna do very well.

Yeah.

But I look forward to driving it.

It sounds like it has some real momentum behind it.

Yeah.

It's one of those things that maybe feels

like a bit of an overnight success

if you hadn't really seen much of it,

but they've been working very hard

and yeah, putting a lot of effort

and personal funds into the project.

So what they've achieved is really mega.

That sounds really cool.

Yeah, I hope to see it up close, hopefully.

Yeah, well, Ben was got his own,

up until now he's relied on the sort of

generosity of customers.

So the two cars we drove in France were customer cars,

one of whom, I think it was his parents

brought the car, green car.

So they spent a few days with us as well,

super enthusiastic.

And the black car that came to the UK

was another customer car from Chamonix,

but Ben was got his own demo car now.

So that'll be the car that we can do a bit more with.

So yeah, hopefully we'll drive it again in the UK.

Yeah, I look forward to that.

And John going from one company taking an already great

classic driver's car and making it even better,

let's talk about your Capri.

And I knew this was coming.

Well, yeah, well, the stuff happening,

which is nice to say.

Yeah, good.

And I think there's actually a long term

test report going in.

Probably the issue where this is out.

Yeah, I do have something to say,

which is quite good because I was invited to

go and give a chat to the Bourne Motor Racing Club,

which is very enthusiastic.

Club just up the road in Lancashire, Bourne,

as word BRM is from, isn't it?

And if you want to go to the poshest

and most interesting weather spoons in the country,

the steady odd.

Interesting, yes.

No, no, bear with me.

On the high street, there's a weather spoons

called the Raymond Mays.

Oh, okay.

And it's the classiest weather spoons I've ever been in.

It's a lovely decor.

And there's trophies.

It's like Brooklands,

and I think it's the right crowd and no crowding.

Yeah, exactly that.

And the food's really good value.

So yeah, so we went there.

Curry Tuesdays.

So I gave this chat and obviously asked any questions

and the first one, one of the first ones that came up was,

so what's happening with the Capri?

So it's nice to have something to say,

although it is, as is always the case with the Capri,

it's all going quite slowly.

But it's, the most recent thing that's happened is

the car's always had a slight frown.

For some reason, the guys who put it together originally

welded on the bolt on front wings,

and it just sits in the slight set to the edges.

And it is all of these things with projects,

not only to cost more money than you expect,

just to correct that small thing, it takes longer as well.

But we're now to the stage where the front looks great.

It's gone across the road from Q Prep,

who stripped the car down.

It's gone across the road to the paint shop,

to Neen Valley Body Reversed, Tom,

who's had it a little while now.

It was stripped back.

It's back to bare metal, wasn't it?

Back to bare metal, which is a bit like when you were a kid

and you scrape all the paint off your match-blade's car.

It had that sort of silvery, motley hue to it.

And then the last time I went in, it was black again,

but only because that's the undercoat.

Yeah.

So, but when it was all in silver,

I was standing next to Tom in the workshop

with just a couple of pictures.

You've changed your mind on the colour, haven't you?

No, he said.

He said, so what colour is it gonna be?

And I went, oh, hadn't really thought about it, though.

There's this completely bare car,

so I can make it any colour I want.

Blank canvas.

What colour was it originally?

It was signal green.

What, wasn't it? I remember.

With a vinyl roof.

With not much metal underneath the vinyl.

Well, that was the thing.

We thought, well, Quent thought,

because the roll cage is fully integrated

and some terrific welding on the crossbeams,

sitting the back of the car,

then a big chunk of paint work

dropped off one of the top of the rear quarters.

Quent assumed that the roof had been chopped off

and put back on again, so they'd get the roll cage high.

No, no, because once it was back to bare metal,

you could see it was all as original,

but there was a little bit of corrosion wheel,

the fixings for the chrome.

I hope it would have a trim, wouldn't it?

Yeah.

But yeah, so there I was,

standing at this naked car

and all of a sudden I've got a choice of colours.

So I thought, interesting.

So I put a little thing on Twitter.

So what colour should it be?

And it lit up.

There's lots of really good suggestions.

So that's where we are at the moment,

just deciding the hue.

I know what colour it's going to be,

but I won't reveal anything yet.

Yeah, let's say before the future.

Did you have it down to a short list though?

Like, did the input from your army of followers have any sway?

It did, it did.

And to be honest, it was the colour that I thought,

but then I thought about it more

and one of the guys did a little mock-up

of four different colours.

I took my picture that I'd posted and coloured them.

So that was interesting.

But yeah, so I know what it's going to be

and the few people who know have gone.

Oh yeah.

So hopefully that'll all be good.

Yeah, that's exciting.

Ruby stone, it is then, hot pink, yeah.

Hot pink.

Bubble gum with powered by fairy dust on the back.

So when are you hoping it will go into paint

and then be put back together?

Will it be out for the summer, end of the summer?

I mean, Tom is...

Very in mind, we're only mid-January now, so you've got quite a lot of...

It was supposed to be just before Christmas.

Which?

This one just can't.

But I understand, you know,

Tom lost his mainsprayer in the middle of the summer

so that my project got on hold.

I rang Lee.

The lad is dating the daughter of somebody I cycle with every Sunday.

That's a bit annoying.

But he's going to do it himself, I think.

Tom is the best anyway.

So I'm happy to wait for him to do it, to get it done properly.

Because this has turned out to be version two of the Project Capri.

Because there's so much.

You've already done the EVO version.

Yeah, this is the EVO version.

So yeah, it might as well not rush and just get it done.

Yeah.

And then once it is sprayed, is stuff ready to just get...

Are you just putting everything back that was in it and are you redoing any...

Did you reflock the dash?

The dash is out at the moment, potentially to be reflocked

if they can do it properly.

When I had the car built originally, that was the idea,

but it went over to this company for flocking

and they managed to crack the dash.

So that was a bit annoying.

But yeah, flock the dash.

You can now get some very nice modern headlamps,

which might actually show somewhere down the road when you've got them on.

That's helpful.

Nice.

One of the guys, Andy at Q Prep,

is a bit of a whiz with the electrics

and he can redo the instruments so you get proper,

lovely, lush lighting on the back of the instruments as well.

So all these little things.

And I came across...

You can buy brand new quarter bumpers.

I might do the front end quarter bumpers as well.

So it's going to be version two.

I might even put some neutrons on it.

They're from 2011 at the moment.

Wow, that's just on the front.

They're good for spins.

So it's quite exciting.

Yeah.

I wanted the paints on and I'll post again on

and do another poll.

Did I make the right choice?

Yeah, I don't care. I've made the choice.

You turn into a proper influencer, John.

What colours should I paint?

Yeah, I'll tell you how much I've lost on this car in the last two years.

Just crash it and then get someone to rebuild it in seven days.

And you'll be a...

Yeah, yeah.

I'll put it on the internet.

Yeah.

See ya.

Bringing things right up to 21st century tech.

You've been driving a future steer by wire system,

which is not going on yet.

Well, no.

So the Capri has been updated with MST's ePass,

but this was something I was intrigued.

Went to Myra to drive this BMW 5 Series,

which is a ZF development car,

with no steering column.

So you've got a steering wheel, upper column,

and then there's like an interconnecting rod

that takes it into the steering rack.

Gone.

I actually had a look under the bonnet just to make sure it's gone.

So you come to it, and of course, like with anything,

if anybody says,

oh, the steering on that's a bit weird,

go and drive it, see what you think.

Then you absolutely concentrate on that.

So I knew there was no steering column.

The system has sensors on the rack,

and it's almost like a force feedback.

Okay.

Unit.

So they were kind of suggesting they can simulate

any kind of steering feel, can't they?

I don't think they were suggesting they could.

What they wanted to do is to impress,

don't mind this German company,

if you want to impress potential customers,

you've got to prove that you can make it

as good as what you've got at the moment.

And then all of the options,

because there are many options,

stuff you can do with steer by wire,

which I'll comment in a second,

then that's a great place to start from,

because if you can convince people

that it feels like it's connected,

then whatever you do after that is bonus time.

And driving around my various test tracks,

there's a handling, is it a ride and handling circuit,

but it's a concrete thing that lull ups around

and goes up and down a bit with sharp impacts,

and you could feel those.

But what really impressed me was we went on

to the handling circuit, the asphalt handling circuit,

which has just been trimmed,

because they've been doing some,

they're putting a solar farm at one end,

so they've cut it off.

So one bit of this circuit was brand new asphalt,

and it was raining.

And the other end we were using was just gritty old asphalt,

and you could definitely test it.

So you could feel the dish surface change.

Squeaky at one end and gritty at the other.

So I was really quite impressed.

And when you're on the lull up in track

with the uneven cameras and impacts,

when you feel that through the wheel,

is it artificially a bit like on a racing game simulator

where you clip a curb and the steering

kind of kicks back slightly?

Are they applying that?

That's the thing.

You know when you catch a bit between two bits

of the concrete road,

and they've got a strip of rubber.

Oh, overband stuff, yeah.

Yes, it does that, but it's not outrageous.

They had two different settings in the car.

The second one felt more synthetic,

but only in the way that we would describe the steering

is not quite how I'd like it.

There's too much self centering or something.

Yeah, but it's right in the subtleties of it.

It is in the subtleties, which is very impressive.

And they put a lot of work into the unit

that gives you that feedback.

Right.

But the stuff you can do with it,

the system is already in production.

Okay.

It goes in production.

I think it is in a Mercedes this year,

but it's already in production in a Chinese car.

It's quite a big car called a NEO.

It was a NEO 7 something.

Not something we've seen over here,

but they have a NEO, have an engineering base here.

So we got to chat a couple of guys.

X Lotus.

Of course.

All the good stuff starts at Lotus.

And he was saying, yeah, the customers really enjoy it

because you can do things like full lock can be that.

Right.

So you can change the ratio whenever you want.

And you can obviously do that thing with parallel and...

I see, so the car can feel agile at low speeds

and then stable at high speeds.

And designers can give it a word-shaped steering wheel

if you want to cross your arms.

The other thing you can do,

you know stuff that we don't really get or want,

but self-parking.

And I did something at Hyundai

where we sat in a car and it parked itself perfectly

in a slot with an inch either side.

And the steering wheel's doing that.

You can just stop it doing that.

Right.

It doesn't need to.

Yeah, the wheel doesn't need to move, does it?

It does not mean to move.

So you can stop it.

That's quite weird.

It is weird.

And if you parked up,

I guess you could retract the wheel fully into the dash

to have more space.

If he does go autonomous, yeah,

he just becomes part of the dashboard.

In an emergency then,

there's no...

Because I would feel frightened.

There's no physical link between the wheel.

What's the emergency override?

But there's...

Just get out.

Just bail out.

There's two systems.

So it's like...

Do you ever worry about that when you go on an airplane?

Yeah, planes don't have that.

I just try not to think about it.

They're not connected by bits of wire to them.

Yeah, yeah.

It's been flown by a long time.

Yeah, but they've just got three or four systems

that do the same thing, haven't they?

But there's a backup system on this.

It never leaves the ability to steer.

Where does the system get its information from?

Where are the sensors?

Load sensors.

What's going into the rack?

So into the rack itself.

Yeah.

Right, okay.

And then you take that information

and convert it into whatever you want.

So I said you could make every car feel like a McLaren.

Yeah.

But that's not what they want.

I think that's the interesting bit that I picked up on

is that you could, in theory,

give something, yeah, a steering feel of an old 911.

If you...

We would try the amount of that.

That's like choosing over the bump screen.

Do you want it to feel like?

Yeah, exaggerate what's coming in.

But yeah, there's a lot of good work gone in

in the actual force feedback, bit of it,

to give you that authenticity.

Where have they got...

Has that come from simulators, do you think,

like technology?

It's like a bit meta, isn't it, the simulator?

Yeah.

It is the right technology, I hope.

I didn't ask at the time, but...

It would make sense, wouldn't it?

Everything from the steering rack to you

is basically what you get in a simulator, isn't it?

Yeah.

It's just what it receives that's new.

And yeah, because it's a unit that's not connected

to the rack, left hand, right hand drive, no problem.

Same system can go in any car, big or small.

It's just, yeah, how much you power it.

So there's a lot of advantages to doing it.

And I guess if you can take the steering column out,

it frees up so much packaging space.

Yeah.

It crashes as well.

It's probably a bit...

Yeah.

There's a bit of a load of calypsoids column

and all that gobbling.

Yeah.

So yeah, went there, skeptic, came away, convinced,

spent maybe an hour or so driving it.

At the end of it, you don't even think.

Right.

It would become much more...

Yeah, the whole...

Where we were doing a few shots where we stopped

on the circuit and popped the bonnet and had a look.

There's a little stub coming out the steering rack.

And that was it.

It's Jan Russell's tale.

So yeah, got impressive.

So yeah, the future.

You heard it here first.

That hasn't say that.

It is a future.

It will be seen in future films.

Well, in the present, we'll stop for a cup of tea

and a biscuit.

We'll come back and we'll chat Ferraris and Lamborghinis

when we're back.

Cool.

So, see you in a sec.

Welcome back to the Evo podcast.

We're about to dive into the new Ferrari 849 Tasterosa,

which Sam and Dickie have recently returned from driving.

So this is kind of the sort of replacement for the SF90.

This is a brand new plug-in hybrid, four-litre V8 Ferrari.

Yeah.

So it does take over from the rather...

I loved SF90, doesn't it?

It's a strange...

SF90 was quite understated, wasn't it?

And no one...

I don't think anyone really fully understood.

Never caught on.

The car, it never kind of captured people's imaginations.

And then...

It certainly didn't catch on with us, did it?

Not energy in it?

No, absolutely not.

So yeah, it's sort of from rather unpromising origins.

They've kind of revamped the car, gone through the powertrain

and gone through all the handling dynamics.

So it's kind of the next stage of kind of influence from F80, really.

I think with the...

They've got their equivalent of the JLR6D...

Dynamics.

Dynamic system, they call it 5.

Somewhat confusingly, they refer to it as 6D and then call it 5.

But it's the Ferrari Intelligent Vehicle Estimator or something like that.

So it draws data from every kind of area of the car

to understand throttle opening and your rate and lateral load and speed.

And then it kind of gets half a step ahead.

It predicts what the car...

So it's like a virtual car with a car.

Yeah, it builds a model of what the car is doing

and then it will estimate based on what it's currently doing,

what it's going to do next.

So the car's kind of already primed for your next input.

The Ferrari's always been pretty cut in edge with that stuff anyway before.

So they've always pushed, haven't they?

Whether it's the transmissions or the side slip control or...

So that's...

I mean, it's really clever stuff, is it?

Because I don't know what I'm going to do next half the time.

So yeah, it does, I don't know.

But it certainly...

Yeah, it makes a massive difference to how the car feels particularly.

It's probably the best demonstration of the benefits of that system coming from SF90,

which we commonly talk about front end and rear end of the car.

There's no physical connection and not really understanding how that works

because it feels so tightly knitted together.

I think SF90, there was always a slight miscommunication

or it just didn't quite knit together enough to feel like you could consistently drive the car

or the car never really felt consistent under you.

This feels very different, I would say.

And the other sort of techie bit is the ABS EVO system.

So that allows you to break really...

Again, that's a F80 sort of cascade down.

And the pedal can never go long because it's kind of...

Yes, it's a more direct...

They've worked hard to give you a more proportionate pedal effort to braking response,

feel in the car.

So again, it's more intuitive and more consistent.

Is that a brake by wire?

Yeah.

And you guys were driving it in Spain on the track and on the road.

Was Montablanco...

Yeah, so we flew to Seville and then the launch was based around Montablanco circuit,

which they've used a few times, a couple other manufacturers have used.

Seville at that time must be lovely.

Come to Seville, they said.

Yeah, the rain in Spain falls mainly on the RR launch.

So, yeah, there were two, two specs of cars.

So there was a base, if you can call it such, 849.

And then there's the set of Firano package, which has got a more aggressive aero kit.

And what else?

It's got carbon wheels and you've got the option of a multi-matic fixed-rate damper to replace the semi-active.

It's risky because that's what they had with...

Yeah, but they now, because you can't get front nose lift with the multi-matic dampers,

they now let you order a set of Firano with the semi-active dampers,

which I think is where most people are going to go,

because the multi-matic dampers are the same springs across all the cars,

but the dampers are set slightly firmer than race mode on the semi-active dampers.

So it's quite stiff.

So we drove the set of Firano car on the track,

and then we had a regular car, a set of Firano with the multi-matic dampers on track,

and then the semi-active regular car on the road.

But you could feel some bumps at Monte-Banco with that multi-matic damper,

so I think it would be pretty hardcore on the road.

For a car that I don't know...

A few of us were on the launch and we were all doing what you do on launches and chatting about afterwards,

but it's still hard to see where the car fits in really,

because I think 296 is so capable and so quick and potent,

and it just does everything you want.

Now you've got the speciale, which gives you that bit more,

and then you've got 12-cylinder, and you can go every which way,

and then weirdly, their absolute halo car is a V6.

And then you've got this one sort of shoehorned in there with a V8,

so it's a heavily reworked version of the SF90 engine, so...

It looks quite dramatic.

There's a lot going on.

They've kind of thrown the kitchen sink at it, I think, in terms of different visual cues,

and they've drawn, obviously with the Testerosa name,

you've either got the sort of 80s, 90s...

Strags, and you know, very wide, very flat car,

which very much of its time, but you know, it's become an iconic looking car,

or you go back to the 50s with the open cockpit doors,

and that's probably going too far back,

so then they've also drawn from the 512S,

so 9th and 11th era with the tail end treatment.

So it's sort of...

It's not quite like an AI mash-up of things,

but it's the opposite of the 12-cylinder.

The 12-cylinder looks odd in photos, but amazing when you're with it,

and I think this car, having looked at Aston's photos,

it looks brilliant in the photographs when you're with it,

it looks amazing from certain angles,

and then you're like, I'm not sure.

I think it probably is what that car needed,

because the SF90 was quite...

It's definitely got some drama, hasn't it, in personality.

Yeah, it was a bit underwhelming,

and it's a 1,000 horsepower sort of flagship Ferrari supercar.

So it should look like this, it is quite divisive, especially from the front.

But there's definitely some SP3.

It's quite high, isn't it?

That's what I think I struggle with.

It's quite heavy and high at the back.

SP3 had, ironically, had the Setta Rossa time slats

to distract you a little bit, to break it up,

and this has just got those funny little winglets.

The Setta Firana car goes that bit further, doesn't it?

So the actual winglets,

whereas the non-Setta car really has to have slans,

just a flat flick,

and the canards on the front are bigger,

and there's a...

They're quite chunky.

Yeah, and then there's a deeper element to the front splitter.

And a lot of the work gets done under the car on both anyway,

and there's all these turning vanes and...

On the road, I think it looks...

It looks special.

It's going to look pretty spectacular on the road.

I know we're more about the driving feel than the look,

but I think at this level with this sort of car,

the styling is going to make or break it, probably,

because...

And it has to make a statement to justify the extra cost.

Is that maybe why they've brought the Setta Rossa name back

as well, to have a bit of an iconic...

I think it's a bit more glamour, isn't it?

And it's something you can...

If you just say a number to...

Oh, yeah, I've got an eight, sort of, whatever,

with the Setta Rossa.

I think more people are going to have a sense of what it is.

Yeah.

I just...

I don't know about you, Sam,

but I find that the V8 isn't...

I was just about to say...

It's not a car...

It's not a characterful engine to me at all.

The V6 in the 296 is much better in my opinion.

You can hear it working properly, though.

You can hear air coming in,

you can hear air being pressurised,

air being burnt, and air being fired up.

And you can influence all of that with, right?

With load.

Yeah, with RPM, with load, gear, speed.

It's a really much more organic thing,

whereas this V8 is just...

You don't get the induction noise.

You don't get that sense of building boost

and then release of boost.

It's just quite a...

One thing I will say, it does have that...

It's a cammy kind of noise that old,

naturally aspirated Ferrari V8s had.

That nice, highly tuned Z-Humling.

Yeah, just something about it that...

At about 4,000 RPM, there's a frequency in the cabin

that almost sounds like...

It's the start of the intake bark of a GT4 RS.

That really harsh...

But it never...

Frequency, yeah.

But it never increases past that point.

It actually smooths out.

It doesn't rev that high.

No, it doesn't.

I'm sort of missing revs, certainly on the track.

Yeah.

I think you're used to there being another 1,000 RPM,

but it has to be 8,000 or something, I think, the limiter.

Whereas all their other engines rev to like 9,500, don't they?

So you've got a bit more reach in each gear.

And I think because of the hybrid assist,

there's a much more early torque filter as a battery.

So it goes very quick, but you just think,

it's going to really just give it a few more revs,

and then you're on the blue lights on the shifters.

So it's...

It is very effective though, but it's bloody quick.

It's monster, but it should be really quick.

I'm very easy to drive, and on the track,

I have to say, I don't know whether this is a quite appropriate

or would I buy this car and expect to want to drive it on a track?

But I think you have to accept now that all modern mid-engine Ferraris,

the only place you can really experience a fraction of what it can do,

or the really meaningful end of the performance, is on a track.

And it is really effective and much more precise

and sharp and direct and accurate than SF90 was.

And it's...

I was thinking, it's such a conundrum that they have with their portfolio of powertrains.

To drive it on the track, at a certain time to drive it on the road,

it's definitely better than a Rover Alto, I would say.

Track, absolutely.

It just feels so much lighter.

The mass is more centre, it's low.

I mean, it's amazing.

This would be the same in SF90, but you look in the engine cover,

and it's like looking down a well.

You're always thinking something in there.

Oh, that's where the engine is, right on the floor.

Yeah, it's properly buried, isn't it?

And you feel that in the car, and the way the front and rear end of the car work,

it feels more natural than a Rover Alto,

so I think when you're really driving to the limit and over,

but on the road, it just doesn't have the drama,

or the breadth of emotion in it.

It doesn't get anywhere, or I couldn't help but think what this car needs

is a spicier 12-cylinder engine.

And then everyone would want one.

You wouldn't need to make excuses for it.

And it would fit with the Tesla or some name and everything.

It would.

And it would be a direct rival for the Rover Alto.

And it would come with some compromises,

and it probably wouldn't feel quite as...

There's low centre and gravity, and there's agile,

but I think you'd be prepared to sacrifice that.

Realise that the car is a really sensitive occasion.

I feel for Ferrari because I was thinking back to when we did SF90 launch,

and it was right in the end of the most brutal bit of the Covid year,

and that bit of Italy had been absolutely smashed,

and they'd just come out of lockdown,

and they'd had to work through to get that car done.

And the launch was really quite strange,

when no one was really wanting to get within 10 feet of one another.

And I don't think we really had a chance to fully absorb what the car represented

or what they were doing,

or maybe if they'd been allowed to share more of their sort of development arc.

And this was right at the very start.

It's almost like it was like the last prototype

where they learned all the things they needed to do

to make it how they absolutely wanted it.

But then the only way they could find out was to build it,

put it out there and see what would happen.

And I spoke to some of the engineers and they were saying,

we already have V12, the 812 Superfast or whatever,

so why would we, we've got all those bases covered,

and it made no sense to put that engine with this combination of powertrain.

And yeah, they're very much, they love the whole concept of the car.

They sort of build it like a racing, like a Formula One car

is built around the designer's concept, isn't it?

And they make it work.

And I think it shows in the clarity and consistency of how it drives.

But it sacrifices the one thing that I think most people buy those cars for.

And it, yeah, it just seems massively frustrating to me

that they've got these amazing V12 engine,

which presumably they could, they're every bit as capable as Lamborghini

in terms of installing that engine in that type of car

and making it work with a hybrid system.

It maybe wouldn't need to be quite as big a hybrid system as the 849.

Speaking of which, does it have a boot this time?

Because the SF90, it's still the sound different.

Exactly.

I think you can get like a coat or something in there.

Yeah, we put Aston's drone box in it.

No more.

And his hair dryer.

Yeah, his hair dryer.

No, that wasn't fit with the hedge.

No, that's huge.

That is frustrating.

But I think that's, yeah, that's another sort of gripe with those cars.

I think with modern Ferraris, the Bunker Road mode makes them so usable,

especially in the UK for normal driving,

even though this car is focused and it has a thousand horsepower,

you can use it for long distances.

We drive the SF90 to the one and it was great for hundreds of miles.

Yeah, apart from we had to put our luggage in another car that followed you.

You cannot.

You just can't travel with the SF90 or the A49.

You have nowhere to put your luggage.

So even though it's the perfect car to drive to Europe in,

you would have to have a second car.

And I honestly think that is one of the reasons residuals for SF90s are not good.

Hopefully this car will be different,

but I just think people realise they can't actually use it.

Yeah, I think if you're a collector or maybe not that grandiose a term,

but if you've got multiple cars, you always need an excuse to use it.

Or you certainly don't need an excuse not to use it.

And if it's, oh, we could take the Ferrari.

Remember.

And it seems a silly thing, but we'll go in the 9-11 or we'll go in the pure Sangway

because we can get everything in.

Yeah, or you're going to have to wear everything you want to take with you.

Yeah, you have the Michelin man sort of driving the car.

Could be airport gate.

So yeah, I feel quite conflicted by it.

And the launch was, even by Ferrari Sanders, this launch was a challenge, wasn't it?

Not through really any fault of Ferrari's.

They had a plan and it's a bit like the Mike Tyson thing.

Everyone's got a plan until they're punched in the face.

I think Ferrari had a brilliant plan until it decided to rain overnight

and then the track was wet, but then it was going to dry

and then there's another wave of torrential rain coming in.

So they wanted us all to drive rather than divide the group up

and one half would do some track and then swap the lunchtime to do the road

and vice versa.

We all stayed at the track, which was great for the laps I got,

but then it compromised the amount of time had to drive on the road.

So I still feel like I need, I need to spend more time in it

to really get a proper handle on it

and be able to know the absolute differences between it and the Lamborghini.

But from what we did discover, it's an interesting car.

It's much improved over SF90.

I think it's more desirable things, more distinctive.

It's more drama to it and you have to respect the work that's been done

because they're so clever and so passionate about what they do

and they work so, like they're so dedicated and the detail they go into

to make these cars do what they do.

It's hugely impressive.

On that, you've now driven sort of three of the most special recent Ferraris.

You've driven the 296 Speciale, the F80 and now this, the 849.

Do they all feel very distinct and very different?

Are there cars with different strengths and weaknesses?

Yeah, there's some commonality.

The best bits of the Speciale and the 849 are the things that remind you of the F80.

So the gear shift is awesome.

It's always been very good, but there's some things absolutely,

it's weirdly thrilling every time you get a proper upshift at the right revs.

It is like you've just fired a right thing when you get down.

It's almost like a recoil sensation in the car and it's so fast and so clean.

That's brilliant and that's like turned up to 11 in F80, but that came from that.

I think the mastery they seem to have of all the electronics and everything's talking to everything else.

It's such a high, so much information like coursing through the car.

I think that comes from F80.

I think as a F80 almost, it sort of stands on its own really.

We all had our misgivings about the P6 engine and it's really quiet from the outside, which is a shame,

but it sounds fantastic in it, which actually, if you feel that I was really mad.

The cockpit is fabulous in F80.

I absolutely love it.

I love the way it looks.

It's like the best expression of this.

I know it's not all Manzoni, him doing the car under his watch.

I think F80 is the best expression of it.

We've had 12-cylinder as well on Carl the Year, so from having not spent much time in many varieties,

I've driven most of them now in quick succession.

Specialty, having said I love the way the F80 looks, I'm not sure about the way the Specialty looks,

but I think that was partly because of the horrendous white wheels and striass

and weird green colour of the launch cars.

I think that colour masked how it would look in a less shouty smeg.

I love the way it drives, and it does, meaningfully, move the 296 on,

which if you just stepped out of a GTB, you'd find that.

You'd find that part pretty high.

It does believe, but it does just nudge the car in a more focused direction,

but it's not a headbanger, so it would still make a really lovely road car,

as the original Specialty did.

So, yeah, I think 849 is probably the least compelling of those cars to me.

But I think the route of that is the powertrain.

The 8-cylinder engine is not an easy one to fall in love with.

It's effective though, it is, and it does have moments where it sounds, it's an exciting note,

but there's not any intrigue or warmth or...

Right, yeah.

So, yeah, I think the emotion sign of the car is possibly lacking a little bit,

but it's hugely effective.

Well, on that note, both John and Dickie have joined another V8 hybrid Italian supercar.

You've both spent time in the new Lamborghini Tamarario, which is the name I still struggle with.

Terri, Terriacchi, Terri.

Well, I drove it on the launch, which was track only, but John, you've managed to drive it on the road, didn't you?

Which is, first of all, we've had a chance to experience it in its more natural environment.

Yeah, so we were invited to drive away from the paddock of Massano Race Circuit on the coast of Italy,

in the Aegean coast, which is a lovely place, even in this time of year.

And, yeah, it's got a V8.

When we arrived there, there were practising, it was the World Finals,

and there were a huge number of Huracan-based cars howling around the surface.

Yeah, it's a good reminder of what we're leaving behind with the old Huracan.

And, obviously, I had a quick chat with Dickie, because you'd come back with a few questions about it from the track drive.

I mean, it's astonishingly quick.

It doesn't feel like a...

I think it just followed Lamborghini's more recent launch, the cadence and format of their launches.

They always seemed to do their first introduction of the cars on track.

And then the second-byte at it is on the road.

So even if it's not necessarily a track-focused model, which, in the Tamerare's case, it's not.

No.

So, yeah, I didn't...

I wondered how much of the much lauded 10,000 RPM redline and all the drama of that,

which they're, I guess, rightly proud of creating an engine that will achieve that with all the hybrid associated with it.

But it seemed, yeah, to me, certainly with a crash helmet on and stuff, the sound and just the bloody speed of the thing.

When you've worked through the gears, I was trying to then overlay that onto a road context.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it was...

That bit of Italy is not brilliant for driving.

Rich Peirce, who was a photographer, we've cosied up for this launch.

He had a plan. He had some places on the map up into the hills.

And it was a little bit fiddly.

But straight away, the V8 thing was quite odd because it's like the Revuelto.

It's part hybrid, so you can pull away.

But all the cars were already warm out.

We got a choice of cars from the paddock.

Went off in our little green car and it was running already.

And the sound was not great.

It was like a mish-mash of different noises.

There was nothing distinct about it.

Certainly nothing appealing about it.

And then as you pick up the speed, then gradually it cleans up like a flatline crank.

V8 normally does.

It's kind of motorcycle-like, isn't it?

The length of the gears and the hardening of the note.

It just goes on and on and on and on and on, but it's not musical like a GT3 RS or something.

There's a hard, kind of, steely purpose about it, which is impressive in its own way.

I thought we'd never got to get our foot down.

The roads are quite restrictive.

But it's like a three-stage delivery as well.

So you get the initial boost of the electric.

Then the turbo is kicking in.

And that was quite a shock the first time that the lane cleaned up your space.

But I thought we'd never get to see 10,000.

And then by chance dropped onto this little bit of dual-casual,

but just two lane road, dead straight, that went past the village.

So you drop out of the village, go past the village, go back in.

Oh, my God.

And it gets to 10,000.

It's befuddling how fast you're going.

Because it just ramps up and ramps up to 10.

It feels like if you let it go to 12, just keep ratting out.

So there's three stages of delivery, which is fine.

But then when you're just pooping around,

it doesn't have the natural interest and intrigue of a V10,

naturally aspirated V10.

It gives you a lot of richness just driving the car generally.

You don't have to be going for it.

It just sounds interesting.

The Evo that we had a car with you a few years ago.

I drove that a few times.

And it never got bored of just being in the car, enjoying the noise.

So I think they've lost a big chunk of character by going to a twin turbo V8.

But I don't think you didn't get the full story on the car.

I think we still, yeah, it's one of those frustrating cars where we've had two goes at it.

It sounds like a load of excuses, doesn't it?

But it's hard to explain some of the compromises that you have with certain launch drives.

A track is great because you get to experience the full performance,

but you've got to crash-arm it on and there's no nuance to it.

You're just in it, flat out through the gears and hard on the brakes.

So you get that kind of one dimension of it and you've had a little taste.

But I think it's much the same as the 849.

I think if you have more time in the car and on greater variety of road,

then if you find where it shines, then I suspect that's enough of a kind of dopamine hit to carry you through the tyre.

You just learn the rhythm of when it's going to deliver and when you're just making progress.

I do feel for the manufacturers that are achieving these great things and making,

I know we complain about the cars being faster,

but they are making these cars more and more extreme and more and more powerful

and they have to be quieter and quieter and quieter and quieter.

And yet they know as soon as the customer buys it, they'll go straight down the road and put a different exhaust on it.

And I'm not saying it's not going to suddenly transform it into a V10 wailing kind of noise,

but it will add some more character and kind of balls to the noise, which is what we miss, I think.

Absolutely.

Do you think they might have lost some character in making it capable of 10,000 RPM?

I did ponder that in the piece that I wrote because you've only got so much budget

and you just wonder if they spent it all on making sure it was going to be reliable.

I think maybe they know whatever they were going to make, they're always going to compare badly with its predecessor.

So it needed to have this big kind of hitbox thing.

And it's crazy, isn't it? Because 849 and most Ferraris get within 500 RPM of that figure.

Because it's 10,000.

And you're not in them going, I wish I had another 500 RPM.

I think you have to take it at face value.

You need to market these cars and find something that's going to capture people's imaginations.

But I think it's also, it gets within 100 horsepower of the Revuelto,

which sort of diminishes the Revuelto 1,001 horsepower.

I don't know, 907.

Who needs 907 in the mid?

It's nuts, isn't it? Is it?

So they needed to, I suppose they're caught between knowing...

296.

Yeah, they need to exceed 296 because historically baby Lambos have always given baby Ferraris a kicking,

haven't they? Certainly on the top trumps thing from Gallardo.

Gallardo and 360 Modena and then Huracan and would it be 458?

Yeah, Huracan and Huracan lived on through 488, F8 and 296, didn't they?

But yeah, they've always had a power advantage, haven't they, Lamborghini?

So I guess they needed to be decisive with that.

But if you've gone to the effort of making a V12 for the Revuelto, brand new, brand spanking,

just think, wow, you could have done a 10,000 RPM V10 for the Tamararia.

It's tricky with the moving goalposts, isn't it?

Vogue, swag and Audi as well, isn't it?

So you do get a sense, you know, there will be...

Evolute.

Yeah, and I suspect the Tamarario will get lighter and more aggressive.

I suspect the Revuelto, they can wind it up a bit more and give it more grunt and more aggression.

So they'll probably diverge a little bit.

So it's interesting times, isn't it?

I think one thing that did surprise me, again, at Bista Scramble, so I think it was the Lamborghini Bristol,

had a Tamarario there on display.

Looked great.

And I sort of was, wow, what color.

I can't silver.

Yeah, it was matte silver, I think.

But it looked amazing and I thought, well, I shouldn't be surprised by this because I spent...

Yeah, it's been there.

But I think the Lawn, it was on time.

They were like 30 of them in all different colors and they just went a bit blind to what they are.

But when you see one of them in amongst...

There's no normal cars at Bista Scramble.

But the look of it is...

Yeah, I mean, Sino, they had Revuelto, some different colors, they had Huracans.

So there was even a Gallardo.

A Romacular, yellow Gallardo.

Like the launch car.

Original car.

So, yeah.

Just Lamborghini blindness.

It didn't look that traumatic there.

No, I think we definitely need to spend more...

It feels like it to be continued, doesn't it?

Yeah, we are working on it, aren't we, trying to pull something together.

But I think, yeah, we haven't seen the...

Certainly haven't seen the best of the 849.

And I think the same is true with Tamarario, isn't it?

I think if we get to know it better, then we'll be able to judge it properly.

How much of the excitement is there, how much of the time.

Yeah.

But we'd rather they built cars like that than...

Absolutely, yeah.

Didn't.

And it's a point of difference between it and the Tamarario.

Yeah, so I think there's always pros and cons to each other.

Sam, I think you were the first person here at Evo to hear the Tamarario,

because you went before it was...

When it was just being revealed, I think, before anyone...

Yeah, we were still in camera.

Yeah.

Yeah, so we went into...

They had a little workshop at the factory where they were fine tuning the exhaust note and the cabin noise.

And they were focusing really closely on the frequencies at certain RPMs

so that it matched some of the frequencies you get in the V10.

Obviously, it doesn't sound like the V10 in pretty much any way.

But they were very aware that they needed to have some of that feedback at certain RPMs.

And it's all very laudable, but when it's going towards 10,000 over,

you can't hear anything because you're just...

Yeah.

All your sensors are trying to...

Tubble vision in it, don't you?

Yeah, it's...

I know I wrote this in the original test,

but the first lap in a strange car,

and you end your first lap and you're braking from 190 miles an hour

into like a second gear back on your south stereo.

Yeah.

And it's downhill as well.

Yeah, 190.

And it's track beast, that's me.

Yeah, you heard it.

I don't think I'd be trusting that beast.

Just think of that.

But yeah, it's a spectacular car.

I think we're in a weird position, aren't we,

where we don't see these cars like you would do if you're in...

A, we don't buy them.

So we're not getting excited about them from that point of view,

but we're jumping from one to the next.

Yeah.

And all day, that's up to you with a critical eye.

Yeah, it sounds like we're sort of joyless,

bloody joy sponges, aren't we?

But they're a super exciting car.

But I think they take...

Whereas on a launch 20, 30 years ago,

you could get a pretty good handle on a car

in an afternoon on any road,

or nearly all hours have so many different characters

wrapped in the one thing.

Do you need the opportunity to explore it properly?

Yeah, and pick it all.

This is an interesting time for supercars

to have so many different things out there,

different approaches to it.

Yeah, this is very, very, very exciting stuff coming.

And more to come later in the year.

But yeah, until then, let's wrap this one up.

So thank you very much, Dicky.

Thanks, James.

Thanks, John.

Thanks everybody for watching, and we'll see you next time.

You

Driving Ferrari 849 Testarossa, Ravage A110 & steering by wire | Episode 38

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